State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs- House

one one he's at table now representative you're recognized to present your house resolution. Thank you Mr chairman the the first thing I would like to do with your permission is to ask for Dr Tim Jones and for Speaker Marlon Maketa come join me at the table. Okay bill would the Joint represent you Richmond at the table please. Also for anyone in the audience that you're to speak for against this house resolution there's a this sign up sheet just outside the committee room so just be sure to sign up and we'll make sure you get on today's agenda gentlemen if you would just identify yourself of the committee. Yes I'm not a doctor Timothy Jones have filed worked with the Cherokee Nation west people for about twenty eight years now also. Family member of the Cherokee Nation west's been for a long time for many hundreds of years and I'm here does yeah when you speak for. My name's Marin okay the greater council Speaker for the Cherokee Nation west. I've been the greater council Speaker now for about eight years the. Located in Maine Arkansas. Thank you okay gentlemen thank you both Preciado should be in here represent the rich man you're recognized president you House resolution thank you Mr. House resolution to eleven. Is a I want to go over just a little bit of of the process that we've gone through and the fact that. That on this particular thing anybody that came to me with an issue on this particular resolution I ask them give me the language give me the words give me what is necessary to help fix this thing to be sure that it is not a problem to you. Well with the the historical group they come to me said you know reminded me that we don't really have a process in the state of Arkansas there's not a legislative process for the recognition of Indian tribes which was not the purpose this but in the title it had a word recognition so I removed the word recognition and change it to what is actually the purpose of this and that's to study the feasibility. Go to the US Senate and tell them to please investigate whether or not this is actually something that requires more attention. Accommodated them the special interest on the other hand lobbyist everything talk to me when I say give me the language back to seeing those give me whatever it is that I need to do. Just crickets they did not bother. There was no opportunity to come in and and make any changes because they wouldn't provide any so despite that I went in later on in the in the resolution and and. Change the language to make sure that there was no misinformation about what this resolution is to do and I added you know it is not to acquire any land. It is not to seek monetary restitution and it's not to do any casinos anywhere. However is still not good enough for those that oppose it because when you're practicing historical genocide. There is no compromise. And so those things that I have tried to do to accommodate everybody concerning this particular issue. In order to move forward and that if there is a legitimate reason. For these people to re establish or continue with the proper relationship with the US government then they would have that opportunity now with your permission I'd like to turn it over to doctor Jones let him speak just a little bit. John you're recognized thank you. Just give you some background on me on the anthropologists to storing an archaeologist also and have degrees advanced degrees and those from university of Arizona university Pennsylvania university of Idaho and university of Tulsa. I did study the Cherokee Nation was for twenty eight years because my family was Cherokee Nation last had four different grant feel grants to go into the field and study them in the states of Arkansas quite familiar with that I provide you with a number of documents I don't know if you have the time to take a look at the who are the western Cherokee that's a short history of the Cherokee Nation west and it's people in Arkansas who happen to be your constituents. I'm hoping that will kind of illustrate to you who those people are and what's going on with them and that's it's not a lot of that is in their own voice and their own statements. And this is the. You should read it because it represents an and read and write the history of of many Arkansas citizens and you may notice that it's reference there's a lot of primary documents in there there's regional letters and things like that in some oral histories in this is because you can't go in the library police history of the Cherokee Nation west off the shelf doesn't exist. And this history has been doing written because of you know discrimination oppression against native Americans in this region you know that's been going on now for two hundred years to come from the US government even universities. states and so on who have really suppress these people's history and in fact there were laws made against their existence here for a while they had a kind of high so you might see them referred to themselves and different County euphemisms like black touch someone in public. And if you have the time to read that I really think you should that is going to culminate in a fairly extensive series of books that will eventually be done but I tried to steal it all down for you to take a look there's also letter. With support from Jamie Thompson he's a past assistant chief of the United could to abandon Cherokee Indians in Oklahoma. They're federally recognized Cherokee Nation since nineteen fifty they've have formal relationships and the relationships go all the way back to eighteen twenty eight. And basically they have sustained a relationship with us they came out of Arkansas. And they were part of the Cherokee Nation west who at the time decided it was best to get other lands and raided the treaty of eighteen twenty eight that moved over into and and Oklahoma that with that was that time into territory. And the but we have had relationships with the member sense because they were part of us and they are part of the Cherokee Nation last and then you can see them there there's a formal rebuttal letter to the CNO rebuttal to the H. R. one a one one. Give me some idea. And let me kind of give you background what clause the creation of HR one a one one. And the Cherokee Nation west is you know since the eighteen eighties has been trying to re establish a some kind of relationship with the US government in some form. And serious inquire as negotiations kind of reignited in the nineteen nineties I was part of that and have been part of that percents thank you so very long history and I could go into it but. We first in ninety four started discussions with the Senate US Senate and About six years ago these discussions culminated in an agreement with the U. S. Senate Committee on in an affairs to construct a bill that would simply reestablish the relationship between the Cherokee Nation west of the US government under the treaties of eighteen seventeen eighteen nineteen. And if you have any issues about other people coming in and I would suggest that first of all you look and see what treaties are these people basing themselves on they need to have a U. S. treaty that's public easy is the best way to step was relations to understand relationships. So that just not experienced group company you know what is the foundation on which they base their existence under relationship with the government. And the Senate Committee on ended fairs there is a procedure requirement that the legislation he sponsored by an Arkansas you senator. Now that you're Commission west representatives have contacted cotton Senator Scott and senators Boozman but so far we have we see the final reply from them. H. R. one oh one one encourages these two US Arkansas senators the sponsor this federal so this federal legislation by showing support of the church mission west from the Arkansas state house of representatives. Now in response to the rebuttal letter HR one oh one one from the chair Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma the chair Commission west has held discussions with the Senate Committee on in an affairs and their Vice was that the I'll be a II the knowledge but process really wasn't appropriate for us because we had these original treaties that we've had relationships often on now for two hundred years with the US government. And. The acknowledgment process is was Richard developed really for small native American communities and that's little community it's like you know six hundred people or something like that. It's a very cumbersome process it's been characterized slow burdensome inefficient expensive unpredictable what she does all those things. I've dealt with other native American groups and trying to go through that process and we actually ended up with those people like the little shall going through the process with US Senate stat because under the constitution thank you it says it's it's up to the Congress have those relationships and the B. I. A. has been a burden submission now since is began. that because I think they're ready to re establish solid relationships with different native American tribes to a Day native American groups also the Cherokee Nation Wes is a large group of people. I and has communities all over northern and eastern western Arkansas basically with their mapping sets where you can find Cherokee Nation less people. And they suggested that the bill be submitted to the Senate supporting the re establishment of the Cherokee Nation west U. S. government relationship under the trees of eighteen seventeen eighteen nineteen. And which I've never really been abrogated. The US Senate procedure. Not law requires that legislation be sponsored by a US Arkansas senator. That your commission was talked to well like I said we talked to Senator a representative some senator Bozeman's office and center console office but so far they haven't made this any final response and that's what we're trying to do with this particular P. with this resolution. Now. This is a you know the CNO they discuss in there the fact that they do have thirteen thousand six plus citizens in Arkansas and provide them with you know health care housing benefits and so on. And they provide these benefits to their citizens in other states taxes about eighteen thousand about sixty thousand Kansas thank there somewhere around eighteen thousand Missouri. And H. R. one oh one one and the Cherokee Nation west do not threaten those benefits you know they will continue because they're supposed to serve their sovereign nation they're supposed to support their sense. the Cherokee Nation Oklahoma doesn't provide benefits for Cherokee Nation west people in Arkansas. Now once the archer Commission west has a formal relationship with the US government there would be a massive increase in benefits because that sovereign nation once it developed once has the relationship the US government would develop benefits economic development and other things for Arkansas citizens and they're not going to get it is. Now the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and that sure Commission west they are separate and independent native American groups. The Cherokee Nation west was established in Arkansas by the trees of eighteen seventeen eighteen nineteen the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma established in the territory modern day Oklahoma there Oklahoma group now by the treaties in eighteen thirty five. The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has really no rights legally or otherwise to speak for all Cherokee. As they say in their own work there are three other thirty three federally recognized Cherokee groups and they're all kinds of state groups and in three different states. And so they have really don't have a legal right or otherwise to speak thank you might feel that they do but legally they tell for all Cherokee. Or to say who was Cherokee you're not. Now they do have a right as a sovereign nation. To say who are or are not there since. And I respect their right to do so. But to extend that to all other charities is another issue. Totaling. Now that you know the the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has been a problem for us for a long time hundreds of years. The Cherokee Nation you know they call themselves the the trick the Cherokee Nation. Thank you have to make that they are the one and only Cherokee. And the truth is that they are not the only one and only Cherokee. As a state there on paper they say you know and I will quote there are three federally recognized Cherokee tribes in the United States the Cherokee Nation eastern band of Cherokee Indians in the United could to a band of Cherokee Indians. but they're also state recognized Cherokee tribes in Alabama Georgia Louisiana. And the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma spent a fortune. And tons of time trying to stop all of those Cherokee tribes especially those state. Recognized tribes and being recognized which is not what we're trying to do here with this H. R. one oh one line. And the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has spent immense amounts of money and and Labor to discredit any kind of charity groups just as they're into meeting in their paper that the Cherokee Nation west as a people and government established somehow in modern times it's just some kind of groups of people just come up and say they're Indians that. When it's not true there's a very long history as you can read their. Why do they spend so much time doing this you know in money. I you know really thank you I feel they should spend that money on their own people and for the improvement of their own nation you know but it's simply an issue of power and the consequent money that comes with that power in the control. They really want to complete monopoly on. Cherokee franchise. And I really personally don't feel that they have the right to that branch off. That's basically what I have to say and if there's any questions I'll be happy to answer anything or if you have any questions about your own constituents histories of what happened in your region so I'll be happy to answer them. Okay thank you any questions for Mister Jones I believe that's correct yes okay thank you any questions from committee members represent to. Representative Ladyman. Thank you Mr. I have a question you you talked about the Cherokee tribe there's three I was curious about this I've been to the tribe over in Oklahoma their headquarters I guess so there's three tribes and then there are multiple state tribes of the Cherokee. The severance yes so are there other tribes that are. Splintered like that I mean I do the other tribes Indian tribes are the split up like that in multiple groups there are some yeah and it had and it was due to the fact that the you know the federal government kept moving them around and splitting up their stuff that went on pre story to in which groups split up or they have long histories of moving different places and by maintaining relationships but because the US government moving people around place to place to place to place and leaving all kinds of people in different places because they didn't always move everybody you know all the Sioux have this issue about having people spread throughout the whole central United States the Choctaw of the same thing they've got groups and Arkansas they've got groups in Missouri they've got groups all over the place yes that's a common phenomenon But you know the different kinds of relationships because there are other than Cherokee people recognized in those states they're shocked all groups and Chickasaw groups and so on because the larger federally recognized group does not. Bring those people at two they're all independent nation and therefore there isn't needs to be a means because they're culturally trying to sustain themselves and go online and select yes it's it's not a call. Follow. You're recognized. so the resolution says you know you the tribe is just asking for recognition the land or money or anything like that I understand that but just because you're not asking that may have the right to that so can you what rights would this strive to get if they get to be recognized and I. I mean not not rights that we as Arkansas could give them but what what are the rights that they would have if they chose to execute those rights. well because this is a fairly new process that the Senate Committee on Indian affairs is is moving into basically where it is right now as we will be negotiating what those may or may not be in the future that's exactly what they we've discussed but basically they'll follow the same lines as groups to the bureau of Indian affairs with the same kinds of benefits and stuff but they'll be negotiated a bit at a time and the retention we doing this because you've got to deal with states to have a long history of relationships with the states so they wanna be able to be flexible which each individual group and that way then they would probably be working directly with the Arkansas state legislature on well we want to do this what do you think you know and started communications and and with the with the Senate. So that your question well partly okay. So again that raises two more questions but so you say it's going to be negotiate I understand that so what have other crimes that have done this what rights have they got can you give me an idea on that and will also. R. their rights that they would obtain from the federal government that we in Arkansas would have no input into. So far yes stated there would be rights that they would obtain I'll be honest with you that probably what That but you would still have some control and that's what that's where we're the negotiations are starting like the work that's going on sept code in Virginia right now is they're working directly with state legislatures try to come up with okay what can we do here what can we do because they want to call legal benefit capacities you know and things like that you don't want to step on the state you want to try to work together so that you got holding the lean positive calming clean the benefits if I think what you're trying to bring up problems about casinos the process that would have to go through and to be honest with you I'll be on the committee with the Cherokee Nation west trying to stop and see. Because I don't see him as a very profitable enterprise thank you jim out of cost and put you have to bring in money from the outside and I think that's. It's it's there's so many other things you could do economic for economic development that are far more profitable farmers with the map to see those with. I appreciate it as one more question okay we've got a good several people in the queue. Go ahead that one more question okay yeah you misses out the code and I've been of their number times and there's a lot of the Indian tribes in the South Dakota area have any of those went through this process and get approved yes a little seller or have completed shall the negotiations are going very well in fact the state's incredibly pleased with what they're trying to do and this kind of a newer process to go through it like I said because the knowledge of process has problems you know real problems one is cost I mean some of these are costly as much as five hundred thousand dollars per individual in the try to get through the process and I know I've been trying to get through this with the number of tribes it's just incredibly costly and so you're talking maybe fifty two billion dollars for the Cherokee Nation west because we have to certify each person we have to go back to their genealogy and show that they've been here like since before eighteen forty and I'll in order to truly qualify and we have those kinds of negotiations with the Senate and the one is to put those requirements in there and I don't blame them because you want you don't want to help spur yes people who aren't related to that tribe but still what's gonna end up happening the magic number and and eighteen thirty there were twelve thousand sure connection what's people in Arkansas two hundred years ago I think there's probably been a lot of of reading one there's a lot of children of children of children or children now it's hard to estimate how many rough estimations maybe forty thousand fifty thousand easily there may be more but it depends on if we can genealogically proved those people yet I'll so we can so we can so they would be in the Cherokee Nation west unless they could be proved. The genealogy. Okay thank you of representative love you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman and I think I'm going to continue with the questions that representive Ladyman had but I want to ask this so is the Cherokee west Justin in Arkansas or the in other in other states their tribal treaty lands or just in Arkansas I just in Arkansas yes are within the the answer is one question so. In in this conversation we we've talked you know look is somebody mention casinos and that sell let's let's let's let's go back if you read if you re establish I guess relations with the federal government. And you begin these negotiations are there some rights in which you're going to get from the federal government that was supersede what Arkansas can tell you. Yes well you can't develop through Detroit's called the trust land system which game land and then you make application for being able to let's say you have a concealed one that does exist it's how things are done to be honest with you it's a decades and decades and decades long process it doesn't it's not something you just do and then many many many of those projects are disapproved of by the U. S. Senate committee on Indian affairs especially if there is issues in that state that state legislature throws a fit. Well and says no this is not something that we want to support they're very likely to back down on those kinds of issues okay that is your question it in sort of those follow up message here. You're recognized okay so. Besides this process that you're. Okay now you're on thank you Mr Sharma to besides the process that you're trying to go through is there an alternative process that you can go through no this is this is the only process that you can go through ten dry cell. Okay when you senator trust process but. Who are there is there not to know the process that you can go through you gonna have to bring that the speakers all here are you talking about technology recognition and knowledge of any issues yes out there knowledge with process does exist but like I said it was a real it's really developed for small groups of people I mean it wasn't developed for potentially where you have to try church a nation that is going to have forty fifty thousand people it was never developed for that was developed for small groups and by the way they have can't treaties you know that in order to be really developed this and have a firm foundation so it has to be based on treaties they can go through it but it's really expensive it it would take. My guest but around a week take as much as fifty billion dollars. For the Cherokee Nation west to go through that process and it could take sixty seven years he's all. In the gross deviations with the your vendor fairs college program. Okay I thank you Mr. Okay thank you representative to make sure recognized. Thanks a question I have is a couple years ago I ran a summer bill for the Chickamauga Indians here in Arkansas and thought I was just doing running resolution but realize that the title like representative recommended it there's a whole lot malt here so I ran that for the Chickamauga Indians he's running this one for the western Cherokee how many different Indian tribes or groups do we have in Arkansas that wonder treaty basically got law that's the Cherokee Nation wast okay the Czech model or part of the Cherokee Nation let's. Okay okay there like I said there various groups of communities if you read that history it talks about who they are and mysteries and how they formed and everything it's it's incredibly complicated sure I mean that the the the the in the final books will be books and I mean you know each six hundred pages long probably three or four the just to explain what all is happening it's that complicated but now the as far as treaties go there is that now you do have Caddo groups the south you got Quapaw how you gonna do with them I don't know because they're legitimate people but they don't have federal treaties you know they don't have other and they have other issues relationships in each of those will have to be developed separately I mean I'll be happy you can get the information from Marcus and discuss anything you want terms of what those particular groups issues and be and how you might deal with that eventually maybe might have a state record acknowledgment program of your all that may be what happened so you can set up form relationships with them and there's nineteen states by the way that have those kind of programs and I would be happy to help you choose through all the different what best processes that thanks to develop that but it's your condition was the only one that probably would end up federally recognized thank you thank you Richard. Thank you saying no further questions for a few be representative back you're recognized. Thank you Mr as. My question is maybe it's very very simple and and I don't mean if I have in my question if it's the one I'll also start out thank god that's not the intention but sense of the might as I listen to the discussions here there are the Cherokee there in Oklahoma there's a Cherokee west here in Arkansas so. How is it that those two then become two separate entities to the tribes I guess it for lack of a better word Why wouldn't there be you said that they actually came from Arkansas the ones in Oklahoma didn't understand we got to a did not the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma about that from the southeast thank you from okay southeast and they were no kind of formally at that time before they were moved to Oklahoma as the Cherokee Nation east okay so so my my question this is they seem to be split up in interesting enough it seems like they were spread across. state lines or in some cases I guess. So it are are these divisions these multiple number of Cherokee nation's the result of a past government action or are they the result of the tribes is saying we don't be part of that group we will be part of this stuff. first there was split ups that occurred prior to the US getting involved in treaties with tribes and they were split up because they're people came from out Arkansas back in the sixteen hundreds and seventeen hundreds and Cherokee that came out here and you know we don't have the documents to the earlier stuff but there was oral histories in which they say that they had come out here for other historical aspects and but then it ended up the splits really started formally under US government contracts and like I said the Cherokee Nation east really got messed up because of the horrible things in which they they were supposed to have lands back the summer second I have a nation racquets that was supposed to happen and the government just totally that that was under treaty and even supported by the US Senate and to have them have their nation back east and the land people and stuff like that came in and that convinced them to move them out so they kind of they moved they did kind of they just forced about horrible things that happened to him and forced about in the Indian territory which is today I'll call you know it's travesty but it's what happens you know so just a quick follow up and it. My colleagues are probably would probably about that whenever you give an answer like that I'll always want to quantify. So so would you say that the majority were the majority of the divisions in the Cherokee Nation and and that's I'm just gonna call that are not the Cherokee Nation are they the result of Cherokee tribes not. Communicating are being involved with each other we're or are they the result that the government has split them up I'd say the bulk of it is the government splitting and and causing difficulties in moving the. Thank you. Representative Devin ball you're recognized for a question. Good relationship with the B. I. A. and the Senate Committee on it It affairs and maintaining communications with them As far as I'm not familiar with the case by the way that you're talking about in Kansas totally unfamiliar with that I don't know if that's what it would be so I does come off top of my head because they do have games in there but it's set up but on the whole different system that will likely causal in Oklahoma. The I and I know because my girlfriend is. Treat speed for gambling. That's a clinic in Wichita so I'm quite aware of the problems with that which is one of the reasons I I personally don't support it but you can protect yourself in many ways you've already done it just in the last couple of years and we're quite successful now I don't know your particular cases in that details of it I think representative here would. Be able to address those that many and if you like him to address those I think the. Sure yeah. Yeah concerning the casino situation in that you're just a couple years ago you know in our constitution we basically gave them a not plea to some existing groups and there is room for casinos right now. And that in order to as far as I can understand it we would once again have to go in and do something with our constitution to expand that that's what I think not exactly what I know but we had to actually. Have a constitutional amendment. To allow the expansion from what was happening with the race tracks and in West Memphis and with the horse tracks down in hot springs in order to expand their ability to include other gambling and then add the casino down around pine bluff and then the one that they hope to build eventually. In Russellville. To just simply say that somebody shows up and we're going to build more. It's going to take a lot more than them just deciding that it that even the process federally is the extremely expensive. A long process of getting permission to for groups like this to go ahead and try to expand to work they try to be fair you know for new groups of endings whatever it was that would come in and do it but it's still incredibly expensive in the courts have ruled against some people that are trying to expedite it but our constitution provides those protections and we would have to change our constitution is what I think in order to do that. Thank you senator question yeah yeah does appreciate yes Sir thank you all represented Richmond I've got a question I'm just curious. If Congress did authorize the issues you just mentioned setting aside the thought about casinos. Will they be able to declare some of their land line of travel and Indian nation or whatever it's called and then what David let with that land not come sanctuary from enforcement of laws or how does that work. I will have to defer to him on that. No well things have just changed in the last six months and we're not sure where that's headed in terms of of criminal prosecution on a nation land sovereign nation lands There could be lands develop it would depend on the cochairs tions are probably would be some but it would not be any state lands or private lands it would probably be federal lands you know that might turn over slowly into the nation offered nation itself At that point though then you have a land base and recently there's been some rulings over in Oklahoma I'm not that familiar with details and I'm not a lawyer. And but it has to do with criminal prosecution and whether the nation prosecutes those people or whether the state does or the federal government can come in and override that so that's for my understanding that's how that works but it that could be it a point at which the you would negotiate with the state and local governments and does seem to be negotiations that are going on you know right now we don't know what the final outcome of that issue I that I don't think what how that of those agreements are going to work and everything but there was a Supreme Court ruling on the issue so I think I understood your answer so are you saying yes that the in those lands could be. Come to actuary pro and and against enforcement is that are you saying yes or no I'm saying no because the federal government can always come in and force it and then on top of that the they would still be tried they would be sanctuary because it's still be tried under the tribal courts the tribe would have their own courts and the most of the laws fairly much parallel that of state and federal local officials. Okay thank you representative gene you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman. Dr Jones. I'm over here to your yeah okay I'm the one that was born you when you're looking for. Thank you for that. Where is your home right now. I live in Tulsa Oklahoma to Saunders on about okay This is the comments you made your senate I'm assuming the Cherokee with has sent letters to Bozeman. And senator cotton is that correct yes when were they sent my question is how long is how long have they not responded in and and what is the reason they have not responded because usually it's when I send a letter to a senator or representative it may be several weeks maybe a month but I I get a response my question is why would they not respond. I thank you would have to ask them that by the way how long the request the request submitted for years and we have received responses other than we're considering this okay you know and and I've personally spoke with representatives from both offices and they've never gave you a directive that they don't. Thank this is what we need to be do and they just meanwhile. This is a very amorphous amazingly amorphous all right of. Does the Cherokee Wes have a chief. No they don't have Chiefs okay good meeting council they have a greater council that to individuals from each our community in the state of Arkansas come to that council will represent the them on the Council they have been a constitution now there is a Speaker of that greater council that's the individual sitting next to me Marla McKay and that's how the government set up but it does have a constitution if you'd like to see that and that's based on the original constitution which goes back to where do they meet at where they have council date if there is where they have a the traditional Capital was in Dardanelle basically Russellville you know and right now they meet in different places of Russellville B. nine different places because we have reestablished the capital in Dardanelle yeah. And I heard you said that if they did some limited search them there may be forty to fifty thousand. How many how many readily easily known Cherokee with do we have in Arkansas easily NO right now I'd say about fifteen thousand but we have to wait and see because at you know as soon as an acknowledgement would kind or relations it's not a knowledge process relationship starts there are groups that are sitting there waiting. Until that happens and then they'll come out and the last date there's a formal process of the constitution which those groups would join the greater council of the Cherokee Nation last and it has to do with they have to go through historical background checks all other memberships have members have to go through genealogies it's extremely formal process and so that we know that there are historical group we have to have evidence of that and that we know each of their individuals could follow other lineages back before eighteen forty in Arkansas. In respect for have one question to representative Richmond you have a question to represent you Jean your term corrected Richmond. Okay okay to Richmond and just full full full disclosure because I'm not sure and I don't know that you ever told me are you a member of the Cherokee with. A no Sir I am not okay thank you let's all get. Thank you representative love you're recognized. Thank you Mr in I'm back on the peace in regards to sovereignty because there were there was a back and forth in the between you and the chairman and it's not a back and forth but just a conversation so in the in the reestablishment peas. If we go through the steps of the all the steps of reestablishment. Basically. If there is a trust of lands set aside by the Cherokee Nation witnessed. With the Cherokee Nation Wes have sovereignty. Don't have sovereignty without land a mental entity okay so in so with the with the B. and sovereign then I mean because. We're we're talking about casinos and all this other stuff but it could it could establish a casino or whatever you would like at that time is that not correct in your mission of the state of Arkansas because. In this is what this is what I'm getting at right now we're talking about a constant what we did constitutionally to establish. These because the the casinos but I'm saying as a sovereign nation could they establish a casino without any input for Arkansas from from the state of Arkansas yes it would take probably take twenty thirty years to do so but they coming well I mean regardless of how long it might take but if you could so it's possible okay all right so then you got to remember a sovereign nation despite the fact it is a sovereign nation still has to have a relationship with the state itself ask the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma here about their relationship with the state of Oklahoma what. So Mister Jones I'm not I'm not. Does not does need to hear no there I'm just trying to figure out Arkansas as a sovereign nation they could do it without any input from state Arkansas that's that's it is usually not that would that would relationships with the state itself okay service tax issues there's other kinds of issues you know what they're not done and whether it can be done is two different things mmhm it's could it be done the answer is the yes but that ecclesias okay all right so I have to say so hypothetically okay they're not going to take in one of the they can't take people's private plan they can't take state lands those are all the states and individuals and private notes the only thing that could happen is a possibility of exchange for federal lands that's about the most demands it could happen. But whether what whether or not is in exchange for federal lands. I'm just trying to ask you about the sovereignty because the process you you saying aye hours toward his what we did with the casinos is that that state land in we did that constitutionally I was trying to clarify. Tim for myself is as a sovereign nation if we went through just reestablishment in there was a trust of lands set aside which would which would could be federally as a federal park of a national park and we have in the state of Arkansas the Indian land will be solved or would they be a sovereignty and could they do it with out. Any input from Arkansas and in in as an as a sovereign nation they could could they not. Hypothetically okay I have known no situation in which any of all federally recognized tribe has done it in opposition to a state okay because you've got to deal with traffic issues you know streets all kinds of issues that come into these kinds of this and without cooperation with the State. You know it could it could blow the development yes. All right so this representative loves you did you have a following I have a follow up okay one more follow the I want I want to talk about The other economic development idealistic she you you stated you nonsense a casino wasn't profitable and the conversation in regards to casino so what other economic ideals development ideas would you would you be thinking on Wall Chickasaw great example because I work with them to that the economy in the Chickasaw nation is about three times bigger than the whole state of Oklahoma it represents like sixty seventy percent of the economy of the state they're involved in all kinds of things even on chocolate factories and away you know things like that they have their in transportation trucking manufacturing they have massive business park developments whether you should manufacturing centers they employ an immense number of people in the state and in other states to. so it's that kind of economic develop that's where the real money is at and that's also where the real help for your own people is because they are able to plan employee Chickasaw people in those and other people in the state in those factories and production facilities and so it really creates an economic boom development is what happens. Thank you for your manager representative Richmond you're recognized you have quit you have a. No it was it was addressed thank you. Do what it was addressed in the comments thank you representative we're going to move on the do you the other guest you would you like to say a few words or do what we want to. I just like to say the key word here is is what we're getting down to. Is the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma key word is Oklahoma. If these people come into your state. Most of the money that they make in this state is going back to Oklahoma. We're a Chickasaw I mean we're a Cherokee Arkansas tribe and we will be in Arkansas we've been in Arkansas. For years and years and years we're we're not going out of state we're not taking our money out of state we're not taking anything out of the state of Arkansas so whatever happens will be here in Arkansas if we work together and do it right it'll help everybody in Arkansas. Okay thanks for that brief comment in the any questions from committee members. Saying none. Represent your Richmond the you have any comments before we. I'll save my comments for closing for the matter of being expeditious and we're going to start the other other yeah looking for against whatever we have we're not ready to close yet but you know if you any comment that just pulled before left type okay bill would did just clear the table. Turn off Eubanks thank you. Secretary secretary Staci erster you hear you would just have stated stable. Madam secretary ridge my understanding you're not speak for or against this resolution that you're here just to Provide information to the committee is that correct yes Sir I'd like to provide you all some information and from my work at the state Arkansas heritage department please okay you're recognized thank you I'm Stacey how are secretary of the Arkansas department of parks heritage and tourism and let me say that I appreciate appreciate representative Richmond's interest of course and representing his constituents and exploring and in knowledge gene the heritage and culture of indigenous people that might have lived in Arkansas I'm not an expert on native American history but I do serve as the Arkansas state historic preservation officer and in that capacity we work closely with tribal leaders across the state we also represent and the story of native Americans and our history museums so I have developed an interest in a love of native American history particularly in Arkansas. I want you all to know that the recognition of native American tribes is a lengthy and arduous process most states do not have a formal process for providing recognition Arkansas is one of those we do not again have a formal process that has been outlined and sanctioned by you all to provide recognition and status two tribes that are not recognized by the federal government. There are currently five hundred and sixty seven tribes recognized on the federal level and in sixty three that are recognized by various states in my account the last number that I saw there were about eleven states that do have some sort of formal process for recognizing tribes on the state level. In Arkansas we have roughly twenty five tribes that are considered on recognized by the federal government and and tried to seek recognition because it is an acknowledgement of their understood heritage I and in some cases it can lead to federal status support our benefits. So a formal action by this body by the elected body as a whole would provide the recognition are some degree of status. And if you are interested in our federal delegation considering this matter I would recommend a letter or phone call from you or your office. And let me just say that if the legislature does have an interest and creating a to a program that recognizes tribes on the state level we are certainly happy to work with you all to establish an office or a commission on native American heritage. Thank you. Thank you madam secretary any questions from committee members. Saying none thank you madam senator You may issue. Next to speak against the bill we have a. Chief Hodgkins. The Cherokee Nation is cheaper you. If you would just come on up eventually. Representative Richmond you might have to go ahead to move over a little bit make room for just a little bit please. JVP won the identify yourself with the committee and then also made to you also did it by yourself. G. certainly I'm Chuck Hoskin junior I'm principal chief of the Cherokee Nation Mr chairman it's an honor to be before you and honored to be before all the distinguished members of this committee and I bring you greetings from the Cherokee Nation it's wonderful to be in the great state of Arkansas today Sir thank you develop ma'am would you be delivered by yourself please. My name is Kimberly T. he I presently Service Cherokee Nation delegate to the US house of representatives I'm also the director of government relations. Have a little trouble understanding where your mask on and I apologize but if you're not comfortable taking it off understand that so would you would you repeat your name so we have it for the record. Sure my name is Kimberly T. he. And I am Cherokee nation's delegate to the US house of representatives as well as the director of government relations. Okay thank you both then the. You're recognized to speak against the House resolution with chairman toss I Tosh I again appreciate being here we do oppose and I speak on behalf of the Cherokee Nation opposing house first resolution one zero one one both in its original form and as amended I'm the principal chief of the Cherokee Nation the largest tribe in the United States we have over three hundred eighty five citizens are reservation is based in northeast Oklahoma covering fourteen counties in that area. We have about thirteen thousand. Cherokee citizens who live in the State of Arkansas. Our relationship with the government the United States is critical to understand. Our relationship goes back to the founding of this country it's been memorialized in treaties it's been referenced in statutes it's been acknowledging court opinions. So when I speak on behalf of the Cherokee Nation I stand in a long line of Cherokee leaders really date back to time immemorial but certainly date back to the founding of the United States. Let me be clear the Cherokee Nation west. Quote unquote. Did not exist. Hundreds of years ago a hundred years ago it does not exist today as a try. It's an organization asserting itself to essentially stand in the shoes of the Cherokee Nation with that government to government relationship that I just described. The group has no lineage to Cherokee people today there are three groups three federally recognized tribes that all share Mister chairman a common history and ancestry. We all come from one fire as our people have said for generations that's the Cherokee Nation. The United could to a band of Cherokee Indians in Oklahoma. In the eastern band of Cherokee again Mister chairman we all come from the same group of people that have that historic connection to culture to land to language the live voice. The group Cherokee Nation west is doing more than just claiming to be a Cherokee tribe. My goodness Mr chairman we deal with this all over the United States groups popping up claiming to be Cherokee what this organization is doing today is attempting again to stand in the shoes of the Cherokee Nation to impose itself into that very sacred government to government relationship that has defined. Relations between the United States in the Cherokee Nation since the founding of this country. The president they Cherokee Nation that I am honored to represent is it's elected chief is the same Cherokee Nation that was here when this country was founded. No the Supreme Court has recognized the Cherokee Nation as a distinct. Government a sovereign nation among nations. That has the right to govern itself and has the right to a relationship with the government the United States. Federal courts again of repeatedly recognized this fact I mention treaties and I can't overstate the importance of treaties the last treaty that we have with the government in nineteen eight to the treaty of eighteen sixty six and Mister chairman it contains some significant language the treaty says that it. It recognizes and brings board all previous treaties and lesser inconsistent with the treaty of eighteen sixty six even our last treaty the government in nine states was recognizing that long and unbroken. Chain. A recognition. Between the government and states in the Cherokee Nation Congress has weighed in on this from time to time in a congressional report if I could quote from Mister chairman. Concerning the government government relationship between the Cherokee Nation the United States it said the Cherokee Nation a federally recognized Indian tribe with its president tribal headquarters south of Tahlequah Oklahoma having adopted his most recent constitution. On June the twenty six nineteen seventy six and having entered into various treaties with the United States including but not limited to the treaty of Hopewell. Executed on November twenty eight seventeen eighty five in the treaty at Washington DC executed on July the nineteenth eighteen sixty six has maintained a continuous let me underscore that ladies and gentleman continuous government to government relationship with the United States since the earliest days of the union that is the Congress the United States speaking about this relationship. Our history has been studied. Over and over. It is well documented. There has never been a distinct nation called Cherokee Nation west and there is not one today there is the Cherokee Nation. We certainly have a history in Arkansas that predates statehood during our removal. The trip during the trail of tears we pass through Arkansas including western Arkansas communities there where Cherokees that lived in that area before removal there's been some talk about these different groups that have migrated to break it down simply Mr chairman all the Cherokee people live together at one time. The pressures of migration of settlement of statehood in the southeastern part of the United States. Because of decisions to be made for some people to remove early they referred to in different times as the old settlers they eventually made their way to what is now the Cherokee Nation reservation the Cherokees who went along the trail of tears were removed under a treaty and in eighteen thirty nine Mister chairman we got back together in an active union reuniting all the Cherokee people under one constitution and what happened next we continued our relationship with the United States including that important treaty. Of eighteen sixty six which reaffirms all the previous treaty trees not inconsistent with that one. With the the eighteen sixty six three. Our travel government today. Is a great government I think it's one of the most effective governments in this country and we extend services to charities living in the state of Arkansas there many Arkansas young people who've gone to college on a Cherokee Nation Scholarship. We encourage HUD the department the housing and urban development department to extend special. A special benefits to native Americans living in the state of Arkansas because we have a presence here. We have a relationship with the University of Arkansas which extends in state tuition to our citizens we love the state of Arkansas Mr chairman and we respect the state of Arkansas. Much of the discussion about being Cherokee centers around ancestry and I appreciate anyone who is proud of their heritage their ancestry and that they want to explore it they should in fact we help people do that to a registration department drug Cherokee heritage center. But what we cannot tolerate Mr chairman. Is a group that isn't merely interested in genealogy is it merely curious about history but a group that wants to impose itself and stand in the shoes of the Cherokee Nation. Which not only had that long government to government relationship with the United States but it was a relationship that came at a great cost to our ancestors in blood and treasure. In nearly our way of life but we are still here Mister chairman. I urge the committee not to lend credence. This organization's efforts to pose as a tried. It's true that what they're asking for is. Something to be conveyed to the United States Senate. But let's talk a little bit about the United States Senate the United States Senate through its Indian affairs committee has never issued a report. Never issued a letter never passed a law which suggests that there is some path for the. Cherokee west to become federally recognized we know the past Mister chairman. The gentleman early said earlier said that the path was a difficult one to get federal recognition it is in my goodness it ought to be it ought to be difficult to demonstrate that you are a people who have existed. With a relationship with the United States from the founding of this country it ought to be a rigorous process. And it is. Mr chairman I appreciate so much the opportunity to be here I think those who. Are supportive of this resolution. We understand the idea that you have to represent your constituents we understand that the people who come before you are citizens of the State. But I ask you to think of the bigger picture Mr chairman and members of the committee sitting to my left. Is our delegate to the United States house of representatives Mr chairman she is a delegate to the house of representatives when she seated it'll be a wonderful day for the Cherokee Nation because it will be the fulfillment. Of a treaty between the United States and the Cherokee Nation. Along that way. We do not need. The disruption of an organization posing as a tribe so I urge the defeat this resolution thank you Mr chairman. Thank you Chave. Misstated you have any comment you wanted to make. Mr chairman I thank you for the opportunity prior to joining the Cherokee Nation I spent nearly twenty years in Washington DC nearly a dozen of those years was working as a house staffer for the US house of representatives overseeing that bipartisan congressional native American caucus and have maintained solid relationships with committee staff with members of Congress including the Senate committee on Indian affairs including members of this congressional delegation. We have in the past been given a heads up from your congressional delegation about state legislation that would recognize the previous Cherokee group the Chickamauga which this legislature and gratefully site to table. And defeated and I know that there are and we in the reason we're given those heads up is because we have solid working relationships with those committees because those committees are especially the Indian affairs committees have a certain expertise in this area having been a hill staffer for nearly a dozen years I can tell you that the Committee on any repairs they do not negotiate federal recognition bills on behalf of a group claiming to be a tribe the gentleman was correct in that they do a request at this state senators be involved that the could the congressional senators be involved in that process they're the ones that would provide the draft information they're the ones that would provide the so called negotiation to bring the stakeholders together but the Senate committee on Indian affairs would really provide and we're privilege counsel on that actual drafting of it no such draft has been had no such draft exist and no committee staff of ever negotiated on behalf of this group claiming to be Cherokee west and so I there was a question about the benefits. Those groups that are claiming to be state recognized seek a path toward federal recognition that can be done through an act of Congress which is Congress has done from time to time and it can be done by the department of the interior and regulatory process when it's done by Congress it's done with the I'm consent and cooperation of the congressional delegation it pulls and all stakeholders and often times these group provide the resolutions bills or whatever state county support they have and to demonstrate that they have the support on a local level it doesn't make them necessarily the tribe but they are seeking that because there are benefits that flow from that there have been exposes in the press about groups that claim to be a tribe that are not that because there's confusion over this process have secured millions of federal contracting dollars there are groups that claim to be tribes that are not. That also seek to have gaming on lands that they might have acquired we understand the Cherokee group have a parcel of land that was gifted to them in the State of Arkansas I don't know what they're planning to do with that land but but we've we've heard that there are and avenues that they're exploring they're also federal and benefits that flow with that unique status of being an Indian tribe and so when Chief Hoskin says that the recognition process is arduous and is tough it's with reason the federal acknowledgment process is a lengthy expensive process because it should it it requires the group to show continuous historical political existence on a on going consistent basis As You poskim mentioned earlier to we are the most documented tribe in the country and in if a group claiming to be Cherokee today cannot provide that documentation one can only imagine that it probably just aye not exist. Thank you Mr chairman. Thank you Mr the repression at your comments. Dalby issues from the table thank you very much cheaper should hold up just a minute she bumps or my bed we got the representative Beck you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair. The one the previous people that were testifying it maybe I misunderstood but they they painted a picture that there are tribes out there that are in states and I I mean maybe I'm made an assumption here but but that there are different tribes in different states and that the primary reason for that was that the the government split them up did you send the painting on a clear picture that there is only one Cherokee try so my question is this are there multiple Cherokee tribes in you know some of which only recognized maybe in the state. There are multiple federally recognized Cherokee tried let's start with that the the eastern band and the United to a band or recognized in the twentieth century through a legal process at the federal level. But all of our peoples come from a well documented. History a well documented grouping geographically there's no mystery as to the fact that the eastern band the United to abandon the Cherokee Nation come from the same place and are in fact the same people I can't speak to every state recognized tribe out there one reason I can't. A representative back is that in some states the documentation is just not needed it's simply a matter of having the votes to call yourself a Cherokee drive you can imagine how that might undermine tribes that have that long documented history in this case three tribes that come from one people. One fire health that's responsive to your question thank you. Representative makes you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman I have a question of follow up with that the temperature I'm asking is you made the statement and and please clarify this for me is that the western folks are not Cherokee or not I've tried. And and and if they're not a try would you please define what I try to be as for the committee will a try would be a. Group of people with the distinct political history cultural history it we're talking Indian tribes in North America that's essentially what it would be certainly there are legal standards that need to be met if we're talking about a federally recognized tribe in those standards are very clear both in the statutes and in the regulations that can be reference and there is a process alternatively through the Congress United States for recognition but that involves a depth of investigation through the congressional hearing process meeting some similar standards. The western charity organization is not a tribe there's no distinct history there that these individuals and their ancestors share as a distinct people they also don't have any genealogical link to the Cherokee people note no discernible one certainly as empty he said we are the most well documented tribe in the country some people may think that Indian tribes lack documentation that the Cherokee Nation and so that's the difference okay so your testimony before says that they're not real Cherokee and they're not a real trial is that correct I'm sorry Sir okay my my second question is you mentioned that you do provide benefits for Arkansas citizens I'm assuming that they're those citizens are confirm have Cherokee history so my question is do they have representation on your or governing council or how does that work do you know kind of like us what we we represent all areas of the state of Arkansas do you have I don't really. And correct me if I'm wrong your official name Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma but this Arkansas citizenry have representation on that. Council so if you thanks to our app on your question first of all the phrase Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. Is just plain wrong and I mean are name is the Cherokee Nation and you don't have to look any further than the Federal Register of all tries to see the that what our name is I think the use of of Oklahoma is is somewhat of an intentional use not on your part servant to perhaps from our detractors. The issue of Cherokee citizenship is that my citizenship in the Cherokee Nation of within the Cherokee Nation all my life is no different in terms of my rights as a security citizen who lives in the State of Arkansas or actually any of the fifty foot if fifty states representative makes because we actually have citizens all over this country all fifty states they have representation in our constitution two members of our council or legislative branch represent the Cherokees live outside of the Cherokee Nation reservation and they have the same level of voting rights as every one else and then on an individual level Cherokees no matter where they live can vote for their government they can vote for the Chief there deputy chief and they're at large councilmembers thank you thank thank you Sir. Saying no further questions from committee members. Your mistake Committee skews thank you very much. Sure you know what else signed up to speak for or against the bill. Representative Richmond you're recognized to close with your resolution. Thank you Mr chairman thank you committee very quickly and closing it there's a few things I would like to address and that is. Beginning with the second paragraph of the letter he does refer to himself as the principal chief of the Cherokee Nation then just further down we talk about the other two Cherokee nation's there as well he doesn't decide all that happens with all the other Cherokee nation's is the Cherokee Nation over in Oklahoma I don't care if they call themselves the CNO or the Cherokee Nation it would be very similar to me coming down here and referred to myself as the state representative. Because I don't speak for you I don't speak for anybody except my particular district. So when he says he is the Cherokee Nation. He doesn't speak for the controller or the eastern band. That's not part of the so the statement itself at the very part beginning of the letter that the presented is misleading. He goes on to talk about the the process and that somehow another were violated process we're trying to follow the process because an article one section eight of the US constitution it tells their that the Congress is responsible for Indian affairs. In dealing with foreign nations and Indian tribes. We're going to the Congress to ask them there wasn't even a bureau of Indian affairs back when the constitution was written. So we're going to the US Senate and how they handle it from there that is their business. What we are doing what the bureau of Indian affairs said we need to do that was get a Senate sponsor and we're asking for that now well you know as far as whether or not senator cotton senator Bozeman will ever come forward that's up to them. We're just asking for the considerate and take a look at the legitimacy of this they say that there is no connection that that this group just popped up. That is simply wrong. Historically you take a look at the. Cherokee tribes that was on the eastern seaboard. They split towards the end of the seventeen hundred seventeen hundred and seventy I don't have a specific date but they come west they come across the Mississippi River they end up in Arkansas and the treaty of eighteen seventeen which he says there is no documentation what what is the treaty of eighteen seventeen it wasn't with the Martians. It is with the Indians that existed here in this state. Referred the selves as the Cherokee west the treaty of eighteen nineteen. Additional recognition. Of that specific group and who they work the treaty of eighteen twenty eight which was never ratified is what caused the problem. It was not ratified by the full council of the Indian Cherokee west. But the US government acted as if it was it started trying to force the Indians out of the state of Arkansas over into Oklahoma. They didn't show up. Until around eighteen thirty five eighteen thirty eight. On the trail of tears a tragic story in itself. Which the Indians here that was already in this state help them when they could to make that trip and make it a little easier on them. So the idea that there is no history connection is that there's no cultural connection that's wrong as well the religion the language. They're counsel. Has existed in some form of the other four as long as they possibly have been existence themselves and the thing that interrupted it was when the state of Arkansas themselves made law saying we don't want you in Arkansas we want you in Oklahoma. You're not desirable. And many of the Indians instead of packing up and leaving everything behind simply went underground. And remained. They will have you believe that they decide who is a good enough Indian a good enough native American to meet whatever criteria that they've established. I think this is wrong. They come over to the state of Arkansas and tell us who we can represent how we can represent. And who we should in the special interests of Oklahomans. Doesn't belong over here telling us what to do. I don't go Oklahoma haven't yet maybe I will someday go over there to their state house and say Hey why don't you guys do this. I don't think they would appreciate that but they're welcome here we welcome we welcome their assistance that they give their people that live here. The four counties out of the seventy five there seventy one counties that do not get any assistance those four counties I'm happy that they have and I thank them for that to help the folks that are over here it's beneficial but why can't. Arkansas citizens have medical clinics why can't our public schools that provide for education why can't they have additional federal funding. Why can't that happen because only because they say they can't you're not good enough. We don't recognize you. Why well because I said so. I decided I'd made the rules. Follow my rules. The reason why they want to go to your old Indian affairs with this long history of treatment of India's and how wonderful they've done is because the deck is stacked. They have all the connections. They have you heard it right there just a few minutes ago talking about the congressional connections. And how the little people of Arkansas the non special interest of Arkansas has no voice and will not get a voice. Because our favored interest is special interest. Does not belong in this particular discussion. Should not be here in this particular discussion now I know you're concerned by your questions that somehow another there's going to be this great land grab that is going to be you know the invasion of the Oklahoma territory in reverse that everybody's going to come swarming in here great let cannot take private land you cannot take state land the only land that possibly could be considered this washed on National Forest possibly something. I find it very difficult to that's going to go away anytime very soon or the Ozark National Forest I find it very difficult that that's going to go away anytime very soon. At without the cooperation of the state. How's that going to work. How you gonna build casinos I mean they've already tried to force a casino into Russellville that hasn't worked out very well because they don't even bother with the people how would this particular group do the same thing with our cooperation with the State. It can't happen because if it does happen what's the state going to do I would tax the holy crap out of. If they for something down our throat. You have the leverage we have the leverage. To deal with this the way it should be dealt with. I have taken every opportunity possible to accommodate it to change all I am asking for is not for the state to recognize these people. What I have asked for in this resolution it's not a bill it's not a law is a resolution is for the US Senate. To consider their request for us to give them an opportunity to go in front and be heard. You can't every single group of Indians I know this is another concern every single group that calls them an Indian nation Indian tribe the date of Americans cannot be federally recognized there has to be treaties and this one has treaties. This one had treaties. In eighteen twenty eight the treaty that they had then was carried out without. Ratification from the Indians themselves so the trees are their histories their. There's nothing to stop NEO group from coming up here and saying whatever they want to do but they cannot be federally recognized without that history they set themselves. So colleagues. Let's remember the citizens of the State of Arkansas. Let's take a look at parts of Arkansas that it wouldn't hurt to have some type of economic development in. It wouldn't hurt to have some kind of assistance to our public schools it wouldn't hurt to have some additional medical care. These benefits. Which I cannot tell you I know northeast Arkansas and probably for the Crowley's Ridge in places like that have some but I don't know we're all it would be but I know it would be beneficial to the whole state. It certainly be would be beneficial over in western Arkansas which is where I'm from it's kind of a forgotten part of the state. Let's keep in mind. Our citizens our citizens. And what they've asked us to do. And I appreciate your time. I appreciate your patience you guys of asking great questions. And with that I'll close with the motion do pass thank you Mr. Thank you representative to Richmond committee members of representative Richmond is close to you that we have a motion of do pass any discussion on the motion. Shane none all in favor of the resolution say aye. All opposed say no. Who knows habit to bills fail. Thank you very. Committee members that concludes this morning just meeting we will meet again the ten minutes of bone adjournment we do have a busy busy agenda this afternoon we make over late but we'll get our work done I'll see after