Public Transportation- House

As I think I mentioned the all when we first met that we were going to be running probably some of Thomas bills and couple sessions ago we address this and apparently it's it's been successful and I think this is going to be actually access is for some Ask for some extension of that are to expand the program somewhat so and I'm not trying to take over your bill I just want to kind of bring up to we're at. I guess I guess I guess I'll give myself away is where I met on the bill already but if you will. Really weird. We've already we've already got a motion from time but I think we'll go ahead and. I think we're going ahead with the bill and. Sorry for the long introduction but represent because you're recognized any witnesses you have you want to bring up go into them identify themselves also when you proceed thank you Mr chair as is looking through my notes here Sounds like you covered it no. The job. Here's your go ahead we have Michael Lindsay here with with Walmart that's going to do so Mr members could committee Michael Lindsay director public affairs for Walmart thank you thanks for being here and as was mentioned. We brought forward a bill and it was a set up a pilot program to allow this type of innovation in our state that employers were asking for as well as some companies outside the state that said they were looking at Arkansas's place they'd like to do business in of course we want to encourage that I believe we might have a video to show about just briefly kind of success story of the program I know of if it wasn't for COVID we would have liked to have had some type of meeting up in Bentonville maybe that's something we can do in the future but so. Thank you represent appreciate that appreciate you bringing house bill fifteen sixty two today and yesterday and this was this we did come in twenty nineteen and bring a brand new program to Arkansas to allow us operate small towns vehicles here in the state we started off we want to start off slow want to prove ourselves before we come back in to see this committee so we've got a track record to prove and show that it's safe it works that's something that we want to expand on in future so we did come in twenty nineteen to bring a bill that allowed us to operate three autonomous vehicles we started that program July twenty nineteen working with highway department to get approval and a signed off in July we started operations in July twenty nineteen and since July twenty nineteen of operated five days a week and been bill and so what it does these three vehicles run from pay of microfilm center to a neighborhood market three times a day they take merchandise from the fulfillment center to neighborhood market so they can fill online grocery orders so if you order online from that neighborhood market to it and then go to pick up your groceries this is the truck that brings your delivery so they don't have to pick it or feel it inside the store that uses social it's inside the store to do it they do it off site where they do it for a lot of stores is much more efficient for us allows us to utilize our associates more effectively to pick those orders versus having them run around the store and pick those orders through doing that since twenty five July twenty nineteen and since then these three vehicles of travel eighty four thousand miles over forty three hundred trips with zero accidents no problems at all we have been operating with the safety driver in the vehicle so there's a driver in the truck but he's not take Mr will or the petals the truck operates on its own the highway department has approved us to remove that safety driver so there's nobody in the cab we have not taken advantage of that step just yet but I think we probably will at some point in the future once we feel comfortable with that but we do have some videos to show you today that kind of highlight what this looks like and also done only from just a promotional bills pretty short we also have an in cab that shows this trip from a camera inside. The cabin serves the drops of with your permission. What's all the whole trip Bills if the pharmacy I hope you enjoy the tour of my district that's right that's. And representative Brian mentioned that he's seen these in Northwest Arkansas to. So this is just the truck inside K. I'm outside camping on the bottom right is what the the AB's actually sitting. As it's driving along. And not touch it and not touch on a. It be hard for me to do. And this is a very busy street this is Walton Boulevard that they're getting ready to pull out on very busy street in Binh bill especially during ninety five Alice. This is speeded up by simply. It's a very busy it runs very very busy part part of the day so it does have to navigate and urban environments. A full stop stop. No rolling stops. You said it was a Ford. Yeah the representative Cavenaugh would approve this. By staff about. Not in this video now that thank god we have no people stepping on the front it is equipped to respond to unexpected yeah it is a quick to respond to that we saw in the first video all the radars and laser all the things the technology on it that uses to pick up objects and react to to drive is it what it has done quite a bit is responding to drivers who do things unexpectedly. The software prepared to whatever recognized as something that happens unexpectedly it has a whole list of the grocer in microseconds solutions to how to respond to that drivers acting unexpectedly. I do not know what is on this list let's finish video that was started questions Committee. We're almost. We want all we would hear the answers and the questions so. This is pulling in our neighborhood market section the one that I shop every day. And that's that so that's cool. Rabies not personal wells of the battles in very busy traffic. You what you guys you have more presentation you will take questions this point you. Consumer ready for questions I one thing I just like to say is. When we think about automation I know there's concern a lot of the time of job replacement. I think we're in a position that whether we like it or not it's coming and it's coming at a faster speed we put this program in place to save it's coming Arkansas what is that going to look like one of the parameters I know many employers in our state are committed to not replacing jobs but just shifting jobs to more customer facing jobs so maybe we have certain positions with these employers that okay robots replacing that job but it's not to replace that individual shops not an individual gets to be interacting with the customer more and I know that submission of lot of the larger employers in our state and I think that's important to keep in mind we're thinking about automation but the act referred any questions okay I I have a couple myself if you have questions raised him miss this bill will get it for you a couple questions that the the the personnel that you have on the vehicle now so their of their main purpose uses just to when you get there to unload the cargo was that is that correct that that's the primary role they also act as a safety driver so something happens with the a the the it's not responding it'll kick over to the to the driver the human driver and if there's nobody in the vehicle or somebody remotely watching that they can take over in case the computer needs to kick it over to them to operate but primarily they're there to to operate the unloading loading the truck so so how long do you do you think will continue to have the personnel in the vehicle that is their projection on that or is it is that I don't it's time interject I think that I think the probably tried a little bit this year we do get approval in December of last year to remove that driver for want to I I I don't know for sure that is set a time table might think may try this year but that's just projections and and how many how many vehicles do you project to add to the fleet do you have a project on that another firm projection I can't say will. If we sit here if you'll come up this summer will have six but I think that is probably pretty fair to say that we look at least doubling I will say that we are we did last last year start a new policy program because we're limited three vehicles in Arkansas we we went head start a pilot program in Louisiana does something similar but it goes a farther distance this trip this trip is about two miles one way that the one in Louisiana because I think twenty miles so I would suspect will probably expand double probably be my guess one more question before you start with committee I know we work for the duty on the first of a Thomas vehicle that and we work every all the issues that with them to make sure we're okay with them State Police everything's work out there so we made sure that was a starting point and all of this and as far as I know we're we're all aligned on the on the language of this bill all right thank you for answering my questions now first on the list representative feeling. Thank you Mister you know I had a problem with this bill alas time and and and then supported my main concern or the sign was that thank you test test on it and I was this is out that it was a job hello. How many jobs did it take away the. by admin this vehicle I don't have numbers but I can very confidently say only added jobs from of innovation and scientists and technologists that came to the state to work on this Hi I didn't because it's only it was only a pilot program going forward I only know of more employers but I can't speak confidently to a particular company self Walmart bill but yes I can speak to tire program for sure it is not there's no there's no job loss there's a team intent that are working on this program they're just focused on learning and offering the program as far as store associates it hasn't none of those positions have been lost I think also had a good point it really redirects the time the someone to spend so instead of some having to drive that truck that person is now allowed to pick an order or to do something that that supports the truck driving so did move somebody from driving a truck to doing the things that support that that operation so no jobs have been lost and and we really see this is growing jobs transition and also transitioning dot jobs to to supporting the the movement of the truck so this is an increase in job I for this project yes absolutely we've added ten people or we have ten people on or the team that without these trucks they would be doing this job in Arkansas. Okay what is the rate of pay of those that are represented here you're recognized for follow up thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you Mr chairman for allowing me to follow I appreciate that. I don't know their exact rate of pay but it's definitely more than minimum wage for fair thank you Mr you're welcome I would representation excellent. Thank you Mr we'll talk to your manager about the safety aspect of it is four as you know you know as well as I do eventually want these vehicles will be involved in a motor vehicle accident and we know that and I'm assuming you have some type of protocol in place to. To be able to respond to that when that occurs and secondly those vehicles designed in a way that you have there is an emergency vehicle that's responding like police fire damage or whatever they they're able to stop and yield of those vehicles I know that probably a two part question but for both safety issues that I have a concern about if you could address those for me please actually representive and all address your second part first yes act absolutely recognize an emergency vehicle with lights and sirens on they respond appropriately pull over stop allow the vehicle to pass safely so that's that's part of the algorithm that these these trucks operate under it so that's definitely something that that they can do easily in this part of their normal routine of as far as what happens if they get pulled over get in an accident with the secretary driver in there it's it's just the same as it would be if it was any truck if there's no safety driver there is a protocol there's information on the vehicle that a law enforcement officer could if you need to call but we recognize that if it's been an accident it's if if there's no safety driver there that vehicles in Leeds to a remote operations remote operations is is there so they can see all around the vehicle they can can communicate with anybody that approaches the vehicle and so we just do it remotely and then send somebody out to address it in person until what while they're waiting to get there the officer can communicate through the vehicle to the remote operations. We got several list so I'm going down the list as you raise your hand generators can be represented bear you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman and the the missile is that. In a former military guy I'm very interested in technology and automation and a portion of my career was actually as I worked at area fifty one we did a lot of research and development and and we've seen some drastic changes in automation and technology that are not only in the military but for the the service sector medical in pharmacies and all and so automation is a good thing and I do know for a fact that automation also creates jobs it creates higher paying jobs you have people have to service you know very complicated equipment you have software developers you have folks at the Walmart main stores got a track all this so I believe as a job creator and higher paying jobs for so should set that work at Walmart so I I applaud the Walmart for for working on this and I'm sure my question is how long ago the Joe start in a simulated type environment prior to the the vehicle actually being on the road so the I know from past history these things don't just happen over night so that I've been several years it's all started working. This project yeah that that's a great question absolutely rocked this project was probably at least a year in the making and I know that the the company that that built that ought the autonomous vehicle Gatica they've been doing this for many years and so before that truck ever run invent bill that to my rated probably right five hundred thousand times computer simulated where would they would throw scenarios that and see how that that software would respond to make sure respond appropriately so is it learning that route thousands of times before it ever hit the road and that's the way that will progress in the future as well from the ridge is going to run that route hundreds of thousands of times and hat and face every scenario before the truck tires ever turn on that's good good question good point follow up missed German follow so each individual vehicle that you place on the road is going to go through the same rigorous testing and everything prior to it being a put on the highway absolutely okay thank you Mr. No just add on that first question me at least two years ago because we were here trying to do the pilot program last session I've been talking to some of those engineering and engineers from that company and they were saying please let us do business in Arkansas would love to hear you know here's the years of data from where we did this in other states would love to invest in Arkansas and that was that was kind of the rush to get the pilot program we understood why we needed to set those parameters to begin with but we're coming back now saying okay here's what the the program looks like. Can we expand we want to make sure that we enable that type of technology in the state. Okay representative hawk you're recognized. I just wanted to make an observation another manufacturer in Northwest Arkansas let me know that they are looking for twenty eight truck drivers currently it just to get their product out and because they don't have enough truck drivers that's limiting their their growth and their delivery of their product so you know we do a lot for the trucking industry and jobs and things like that but still we have demand a high demand and it is hurting their gross to be able to sell their products so just wanted to say that I think this also is a great thing well my question is will this be. Up close to distribution centers as this rolls out is that kind of the idea right and so yes thank you for the question and I agree one hundred percent there is a truck driving shortage not only in Arkansas but around the country and I they tried for years to try to address that and listen to some success but we're still seeing a tremendous lack of drivers here in Arkansas yes so living in been bill you know this seems like there's a distribution center on every block and so that's part of the reason what so we were so preserve this committee and and the state for allowing us to do this and we're not teams I think at some point it does move from a small film a center. Excuse me to a large distribution center right now we're we're really are trying to focus on small small small business the business first the big DC and and interacting with the big semi trucks but I think it's it down the road is definitely a possibility and it's and you bring up transportation truck drivers I will say that we've we have run this bill by the Arkansas trucking association and and they feel good about the bill we run it by the auto dealers as well the auto alliance I think you all have received an email in support and then the maker the manufacturers of these vehicles and also the auto dealers have looked at this bill and and feel comfortable with that so we have we try to make sure and run the transfer every in association an industry group that might have an opinion on this bill we've we have run about and to get there they're buying thank you for the question. Just just a note I think there's a hundred forty thousand truckers across this nation has been taken out of service for various reasons that have not gotten back into service they have not require five so I think I'm I think I'll make a note of that number could be a little higher next on the list. Were you through represent all okay representative Springer you're recognized. Okay course minister representative rye. Thank you thank you Mr chairman Austin Michael. You know let's look say five or ten years down the line if this if this does go on okay in the traditional happen. May I ask you this guy's and I know there's no one here from all our place except maybe Mister Tosh could help us with a little bit Gosh. This vehicle in the future are you looking for this to be able to to drive itself and also to be manually driven by. About by the person is operating it in a and and this is if it is. Could this help in the future what date of the eyes and things like that. Budget I can't speak up to the particular of this employer what what they'd like to see down the line in detail but what I do know is this bill sets the specifics of this program with the department of transportation to observe and make those type of recommendations and guidelines as this goes five ten years down the road in terms of with this help with I would say the example you gave but I would say any type of distracted driving texting any of that I mean you look at just the safety rates. I think the measurement is disengagement rates whenever the have to disengage the automation and have a controller takeover. This is just say for the human error and so I think long term yeah I I I think that would. Would be something that would be addressed is comparing the the data and with the drivers to intoxicated drivers and after I have answered questions looking at me like maybe I have an issue that's. You have followed yes Sir you know Austin a representative often you know. Destruction hours speaking one night spent three four years ago and the situation come up what we will pass and other cars initiated you know John we're only two and a half feet away from Davis. So you know. That is true and and I just wonder if if these things could be designed in a way that you could almost stand away from other vehicles that you're passing scraps division I think that is kind of the point with this is not only efficiencies but safety aspects as well thank you Mr Visser representative Bryant you next on the list thank you Mr just to two quick questions of everyone around vehicle markings his or anything and I noticed when I see the one driving the Bentonville you can tell just by all electronics on it would you also see the driver sitting there C. feel some somewhat comparable as we move into fully autonomous. what's the plan for markings for indications or is that is there to much of a risk for that I don't think that there's a risk I think it currently on the vehicle it's probably not as prominently displayed as may be it will be in the future but it does say autonomous vehicle and I think as you approach the vehicle it'll you'll see more and stickers and indicators that is autonomous especially there's no safety driver in there will have to have information sheets for anybody that does approach the vehicle need to approach the vehicle for how to contact the operator the vehicle if there's nobody so I think that once we do remove the safety driver it'll be probably more obvious than it is currently but there are markings on it today but it's it's a good question okay my my second question is you know I think currently. Your operations for for. For your is it is a Gatica gaining getting Gatica yeah it's got I know it's that's on north side of been builtin as you more at as you increase your fleet and you have certain routes is there is there a plan to move that operations kind of more in line with the route that we have there is an incident they have got more more responsive ability to get to that incidents rather than trying to drive through the city I'm I'm not sure I'm not sure if they will change the router just had stops so I'm not sure but and once we do come up with that next expansion program are make sure let the committee know where we're going to go on with it and that's part of our role with highway department as well The Hobbit if we change our Richmond but the highway department I'll make sure they feel comfortable with that so there's a little bit of a process there for if we do at a rude or modify the current route that we work with our department to make sure that they're aware and and get some feedback but but I don't know I was Secretary exactly what they want to do I think they're still waiting to see if this bill passes and then start making plans for next a thank you. Represent Furman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman is it set up a way to where if there's a vehicle in front of it maybe stalled on the road that it will go around it like normal drivers would. Yes there should be the algorithm should accommodate for a stalled vehicle or unexpected stop and so should be able to a comedy for those I think some some maybe programs of run into that problem but I I believe that our system is especially in Bentonville I'm in an urban traffic that it's prepared to address that sort of unexpected events follow up follow I'm sure it is but just to confirm is this also set up to recognize like school bus stops and absolutely okay yeah thank you that I will say that that's a very good question and so that and part of what representative very was referring to I mean we run this specific group millions of times I know exactly what every school bus stop on this route before ever that truck ever leaves the the drive way so it that is part of the the preparation process is to really learn the room where the stops where the potential danger zones was this intersection is really difficult so so we do have absolutely do that one percent preparation and we do not just let our trucks go give a GPS map and just let it go so there's a there's a lot of preparation it does address that concern it's a very good question thank you I was just concerned that it wouldn't mistake the school bus for a stolen vehicle if it's got to yes okay and I know word. We should take advantage of the company that's taking advantage of the pilot program at the time but I will say in terms of the bill itself it's it provides the industry standard definitions of what this type of technology technology ought to pay attention to such as those examples and it's it's taking into account best practices from surrounding states a few laws as well as some national standards as well. Okay thank representantes you've got another question. How do I do may share and I appreciate you Given the opportunity to ask other questions Michael and you may have already answered the is and but I I need to preclude cages to all understand are these vehicles program to the route that you're going to go or they program before they leave or ours that handle from a command center or. So the so the the show's program before it leaves is that correct that that's correct they do have the they do have the the knowledge and insight for the the for the entire area so it's not just that single route but there program just to travel this route and to make more data point baby and that's what your program do then turn around come back this survey days that correct that's correct okay. Okay thanks any other questions. The event Watson you're recognized. Thank you Mr Mr Lindsay other than other than this B. and a pilot program. In collaboration with the Arkansas legislature. At a curiosity what is or is this thus far been the biggest of. I guess I'd say the biggest obstacle those for and of this program or or had things just really don't own the way your hope and think it would be just curious has it been a big obstacle there hasn't been this okay really gone very very smoothly as we kind of hope for a better better pilot program that what we experienced that's wonderful to hear excited NO all the committee members here I was excited two years ago Austin like you mentioned while ago so Hey this is the future does is get with it no further thank you. Eleven more questions from committee members signed up I do have one more question I noticed watching video that the stopping distance look like a pretty good distances it programs every time to stop the same distance could basically do you happen to know what that is Davis look like pretty good distance to me I did notice that too and then that is a programming safety precaution I I don't know what that distance is I don't know if it's a car links for or what at that exact distances but it's it's it's consistent purpose safety protocol that they've included in the vehicle okay I don't see any more questions a committee no one's here to speak for against the bill represent McCollum would you like to close. I would I'm close at this time thank you. Of representative would occur you're recognized a motion to that I have a motion to pass any discussion on the motion. A quick. Thank you Mr cherry briefly representative calling thank you for bringing this to us a part time was thrilled to see it two years ago I'm absolutely thrilled to hear that the progress in the successes you've had as as I'm stated two years ago the question before this body isn't whether or not we're going to have autonomous vehicles as you noted in your enter they are coming whether we like it or not. The question for us is will Arkansas be ready and I think your bill goes a long way toward making us ready for this thank you and I'll be a yes vote. Any other comments. Okay I have a I have a do pass motion from representative Whitaker all in favor say aye. Any oppose same Lacson hearing none congratulations your bill passes thank you represent McCullough Michael Lindsay thank you for being here from Walmart. Okay representative McCullough thank you are also going to run S. B. three thirty three is that correct yes Sir I thank you have an amendment to that first of all let me introduce the US the US the sponsor of the bill Senator Eads would you raise your hands of their for so our freshman we is he was once a representative said but he he he he was demoted moved down Senate in so. Who's a good friend of ours and anyway glad to have you in our committee today so uh represent will go to you may begin with your Amendment to Senate bill three thirty three great yes Sir thank you Mister Senate bill five three three three the amendment is simply to add co sponsors of those who got excited about the bill so would love to get that amended added. If the committee is willing. Simply adding the signatures any questions from committee. Diar motion from committee rep representative a David Hillman. recommended do pass all in favor say aye he opposed same accent hearing knowing you may proceed with the bill as amended love to get the Senate sponsor appear figures in mind. If you look at the bill language itself and I'll let you speak to the intent. Committee where you're coming from with why you want to run this is a Senate bill to begin with please please introduce yourself of the committee Lance Eads state senator district seven in Northwest Arkansas makes a. But at the bottom of page one is obviously the. The meat of this very short bill but we're we're adding a list trailer hitch trip into a motor vehicle wheel chair lift and finally bicycle rack as to what may be attached to the vehicle and that and that may obscure a license plate on the vehicle so. Thank you representative of I was actually contacted by owner one of our larger bicycle sales of retail shops in Northwest Arkansas and as as you find in many things that we take action on we don't know that issue sometimes until somebody gets cited for something and so he did a number of people coming into the store saying that they were inst specially in some smaller communities being cited for obscured license plates because they're bike rack on the back their vehicle these will everybody has a bike rack or something on the back of vehicle Northwest Arkansas now all the time it seems like and so did a little research and found that there was nothing at any kind of specific exemptions in our statute that allows for that and so when I actually look at it. A tech technically the language that I found in Texas and Utah and several other states cited specifically the language that we've added here so can you imagine and this part of the state during duck season how many people are in violation of our current statue when they're pulling their duck boat around so or were you going to like in the summertime so wanted to allow for those specific exemptions that people use on a regular basis and we often find and and especially in our part of the state that people have their bike racks on their vehicles all the time even when they do have their back on there's just become regular have excellent bill put on take it off very quickly so in this hopefully something fairly simple that will make ours continue to make our state more attractive to draw in those kinds of travelers and visitors want to come in here take advantage of all the wonderful trails that we have in this in this region now and appreciate this. Any questions from committee. I don't see one signed up here to speak forget representative let. motion propped I don't see one here to sign up for against the bill of are you are you close representative co of representative that you're recognized. Motion to pass any discussion. As amended skews me. Any discussion. All in favor say aye opposed same like sign hearing none congratulations your bill passes. A committee we or we were not meet Thursday we only had one bill that that someone wanted to run and I asked him to move that to next Tuesday I thank I think we're going to have three bills for next Tuesday but I see no need to meet this Thursday so you can go home you know with what's coming up to you will post it so you know what's going meal next Tuesday's agenda but the. Thank you for your work projects being here the status committee stands adjourned.