Public Transportation- House

By representative John Payton District sixty four so I have Senate bill five hundred by Senator Irvin that I'm presenting it removes a special license plate courses as one back in the buffalo river is a awesome river and I think everybody's familiar with its beauty and its reputation about twenty eight miles of it run through Searcy County and well conservation is wonderful and rivers wonderful if it can be hard on economic development and that's reflected in the fact that Searcy County has the lowest per capita income of all seventy five counties so the money from the special tag would go to economic development in Searcy County a man there Mr treat noticed the special tag program took the initiative to research and find a tag that could be eliminated and put in a lot of his personal money to try to get this tag established an easy guide heart behind it he he's a community leader there and Marshall and they have a economic development group that intends to use this money to try to promote. Searcy County. With that I'd appreciate a good vote all right thank you resent paid questions representative would occur you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman represent Payton I have been contacted by some folks in involved with the. Other because of the long the buffalo and they are concerned that a lot of folks may think they are actually benefiting buffalo river conservation projects and you're saying it's an economic development for Searcy County correct I guess they're they're they're antenna went up a manner it was with five oh one see three then never heard of before Do you know whether they plan to disclaim this clearly to people that they know they're not supporting conservation along the buffalo national river. Well I think people have to request to tag whenever they go to the DMV and of course they're trying to you know put some special artwork on it that would be attractive to maybe get some attention as you follow somebody down highway but as I stated. The river is wonderful and the conservation is wonderful but economic development is it the real challenge and so yes this is going to the buffalo river community development group for economic development and the buffalo river runs through a couple other counties and there's some jealousy there about them not being involved in the program but Mr treat took the effort and initiative to to find a way to try to. Have a voluntary means of raising money generating money for economic development service accounting and there are other tags I guess if they wanted to run a program for their county that could. Follow the follow up I guess mostly not not I don't have a problem with what what they want to do I think it's a wonderful thing obviously Searcy County needs economic development I'm not I'm not first in there but there is some worry that bill be confusion that this is either going to conservation of that somehow benefits the park service. I just like to know and be able to pass along constituents that they'll be clear disclaimers that that's not what this is for because when you say get a buffalo river tag people gonna think they're helping conserve the river that's that's my concern. Consent I'd like to bring Senator Irvin as her bill to the table let her respond to some of these questions if that's okay Mr cherry certainly Senator Irvin doing very seven emergency thank you Mr chair and thank you members of the committee on Senator Missy Irvin and brought this bill forward on behalf of my constituents that I represent in this area as you know I've worked closely with the governor and you have another bill hopefully that you will say that will be before you to use put in statute the buffalo river conservation committee that has been established as first was established through the governor's executive order we are putting that in statute as well and working with the governor on that piece of legislation through that efforts we help public health committee meetings in both Searcy County and Newton County and we because it was critically important that the input of the local people that are the people of the buffalo river B. considered and that they are the ones that are living in the river and they are taking care of the river and there may be and and to address your questions at representive Whitaker if you have economic development in this area particularly in Searcy County that is going to go a long way of concert with conservation efforts on the river And so as we went through this process with the buffalo river conservation committee we have had almost nearly forty local stakeholders join every single meeting V. as soon we started off in person of course then COVID hit we had to move as soon but to have that level of engagement of the people in that area with the efforts that have been ongoing has been incredible it's just been incredible and so it's important that you know that part of that work with. That conservation committee has been discussions and subcommittees with lots of different stakeholders but particularly those that are from the area that live in the area who had their property taken away from them because of the buffalo river was a designation as a nine as a federal part they have engaged greatly and the issues that they have brought up have been and the fact that we need more tourism to come to the area we need more economic development for businesses to support the efforts and the tourism around the river we need to we need more restaurants. It to serve the people that are floating down the river we need more people that we can engage at the local level to help take care of the river because they are currently doing that and so the more that Searcy County can put towards improving their cell phone situation is dramatically going to help the river because if you will I was on the river one day and literally within eyesight I could see thirty different you know canoes people or kayaks and you know there are volunteers that come on to that river that help the National Park Service and help the national park Rangers get people out of bad situations and I I was there and saw one of them and this man came zipping up because we don't have enough federal resources to really maintain and take care of the park so it does fall on the local folks to do a lot of the maintenance the conservation they're trying to fix their own road issues where there's a Roshen going on and so one of the big issues that we also address with the unpaved roads in the area because a lot of that run off and those roads are not built correctly and so there's tons of erosion that's going on into the into the river And their local land owners have put their own money end to fix those problems that are caused because of the great tourism so you know this was the hard work by these local folks to go to see an opportunity they found to where they have those available they did all the work got all the paperwork together they're raising their own money to put this board in order for an effort to to help you know help improve their their situation so I appreciate your conversation and your question because I think it's so important to highlight the the partnership that has to exist with the local phone. Oaks in order to be greats conservationists of the buffalo river and I'm so proud of their engagement and I'm so proud of these people for stepping forward to bring us this piece of legislation thank you so much. Mmhm. Well I'm thank you up and as I said to then pending before you have I've I think it's a wonderful plan I'm thrilled that you all down the engagement that you have just wanna do pass along concerns expressed by some constituents that some people might think this was for the buffalo river foundation or something like that we just wanna make sure thank you for explaining because that gives everybody the kind of openness Claire Allen we we do when we ask people to give money to things right now absolutely and I appreciate it appreciate it and I think that it really is going to be super beneficial to all the counties that are involved because that will help drive tourism to the area and you know it's I mean you have more opportunities for more businesses more restaurants more outfitters and their slant I mean they can't keep up with the demand you know so I appreciate the conversation. Thank you in your opening you stated that someone gave up tag just for the committee's information will allow so many tasks someone was not using a tag gave up a tag also center I think I'll raise the five thousand dollar fee that the they had to be paid so they paid that also worked at the ready to pay that yes I just want to give that to me any more questions from committee. It's saying ninety per closed down closed thank you Mr president for committee what's will of committee. Have a do pass represent what occur in discussion all in favor say aye opposed same lack sign here you know congratulate you bill passes thank you people are the county thank you today and the buffalo river thank you. Rosa Dotson. He per per house bill thirteen fifty five. You may proceed identify yourself for Mister chair jim Dotson state representative district ninety three thank you this is a concurrence on a Senate Amendment the bill we passed several weeks ago we got over to the Senate we need to ask Senate co sponsors of this adds Senator English to the bill as well as the. The. Automotive technology education grant program that we were establishing under this bill previously was going to be in the under the Division of career and technical education or putting that back under the Arkansas motor vehicle commission with the coordination with a career and technical education department in developing the application process but having the commission the industry experts be the ones that are actually doing the grants process and then putting a reporting requirement from the commission to A. L. C. on a regular basis of what those grants were I think that pretty much sums up the the meat of the the changes be more than happy to answer any questions any questions committee. You for close any I'm going to speak for against the bill saying ninety per closed and closed. J. vote I need a motion to concurrence in an amendment. I have a motion for representative Ryan discussion all in favor say aye opposed same like Senator you know graduate you're meant to pass thank you Mr thank you Committee. That's on the agenda we have house bill sixteen thirty one representative flowers herbs and flowers you fared. May proceed. Represent car. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chair yeah I'd like to make a motion that would limit debate to two minutes per witness I have a motion two minutes per witness any discussion all in favor say aye all right any opposing like saying hearing none all witnesses will limit their testimony two minutes represent flowers anyone you want to call to the table with you now you may go ahead and and they will proceed yes thank you Mr chair back to call Gerald sale and when Dennison. Your home is around I was on transportation we can do that at the outset. But I understand. UFC thank you so much. So colleagues my name is Vivian flowers state Rep for disk seventeen pine bluff and I bring this bill to you it's not new it was something that was proposed in the last session and I was a co sponsor to that bill and bringing the bill this year and I want to tell you. That I don't it I don't take this lightly I don't think the issue lately and I think that the bill is very important. so much so I just want to point out a few things I'm I'm very clear and understand how important. Infrastructure is transportation is probably one of the most important aspects of our infrastructure second only to water in my estimation. In particular are railroad transportation. is critical. Not only to commerce it's critical to the travel and tourism it's critical to the history infant and infrastructure of my particular district. And our own economic footprint and I make those points so that you know and understand that I understand how important that is and all that is involved. And but I would also like for you to suspend those aspects because while all of those aspects are important that's not what sixteen thirty one is about. And I can tell you that it is not easy bringing this legislation because union Pacific in particular is extremely important to my district and they have been extremely supportive of me so this is a situation where I have to gauge and like many of you what is best for my district. What is best for the people in my district. And so that's why I'm here sixteen thirty one it's very very simply about safety. That's it. And around the issue of safety of course we have to consider capacity we have to consider authority you know whose role is it. To regulate. Nobody likes rules and regulations within like it we were kids we don't like it now but it's a reality and it's a part of our lives from the from that part all the way up to now in this legislature or in business. We don't want unnecessary rules and regulations but it's clearly. When they are necessary they are typically necessary first and foremost for safety. And so I want to put that before you as we begin this conversation which will be quite succinct today. Before I turn the conversation over to those who are joining me today Mister chair. I just wanna make a couple of points. today if you have several handouts in front of you. And those handouts will provide you with data. And those handouts will provide you with information about the opposing arguments. The opposing arguments again sixteen thirty one. Will ultimately center on. Whose job it is. To make a safe. We've seen the devastation that can come from. Situations where people in our position. Have the power and the authority to make people safe and to ensure that there are no accidents or that we are using our capacity in a way that certain best serves our people. And accidents happen not when people. They don't I mean the very definition of an accident happens because something happens to fall through the cracks it wasn't intentional. So this is not about attacking or putting any one. Company or industry in distress. This is about making sure that the regulations that we put in place match our capacity and match the best Case scenarios are the best What is best for the people of our state and with that I'm going to close and I'll save some of my other remarks from Michael when I close Mr chair. Edify and could ask for the two minute clock to start. Mr I wanna say thank you for allowing me to be here one December the locomotive engineers and trainmen I've been out I've been operating engineer for twenty years on the road clocked over one million real miles five X. extensive knowledge training and skill for this profession the railroads operating plan pertaining to train length is of great concern to all Arkansans in two thousand four when I started my training as a locomotive engineer the trains never exceed eight thousand feet. Trains now or up to eighteen thousand. That's a massive growth the real instruction Arkansas is not ready for these extended trying links. With these trainings we've seen multiple occasions where people have been barred from their homes first responders unavailable to respond and entire towns cut off from those other community seconds can make a difference only to make trains between life and death. It's time everyone for the people this great state first you have been elected to do what's right and represent the citizens of your district. I would hope that you would not allow the rebels to rule your communities you have an opportunity to make a change today on this growing issue. Any questions from committee. You may receive a general give me represented bearing. Thank you Mr chairman and I guess my biggest concern right off the bat is the fact that you know a lot of my experience based on aviation so aviation is are controlled by the department of transportation and the Federal Aviation Administration in this particular case but the railroad is then the rules and everything are made by the federal railway administration they're they're the ones it's chartered with safety rules and so forth so why or is it within the authority of the State of Arkansas make a determination where the federal real rate real road administration should be making that determination. Yeah if device sure sure My name is Gerald sale on the Arkansas Legislative rector smart transportation I'm also if for a certified conductor with rolled over seventeen years I want to thank chairman committee for allowing us to address this issue here today I often say real cruise or an afterthought I doubt anyone in this room who's means to Magento you answered the general questions mean yes service or are you not fault yes okay apologize sure and the question was about jurisdiction specifically. jurisdiction specifically the state of Arkansas in any state has the ride according to title forty nine to U. S. Code twenty one oh six to adopt or enforce any regulation regarding safety that is not already regulated by the federal government this is not our regulated by the federal federal government if it were regulated by the federal government we would still Arkansas would still have the right to regulate and enforce anything that was more restrictive not less restrictive then what the F. R. A. R. A. regulates. I'm going to go in allow you to do your testimony take questions yep all got that we don't you get start you on the call okay I'll just start where I was on when wasting time it's not saying often say river cruise are an afterthought I doubt anyone the room to not thought about a real today thought about a real crew last night if you're getting ready for bed crew somewhere in Arkansas was boarding a co trying when you're sound asleep they were fighting to stay awake and I'll bet when you woke up and turn on a lot that morning this morning you never thought that that was made possible by real crew travel safely across state through your town and deliver that low to power plant. One of the first things we all learn on the railroad is safety rules and regulations are written in blood. Meeting it often takes a tragedy to establish life saving protocols we're here today asking for you to change that custom. The term railroaded is defined as a sense of having something force through either unjustly or without proper regard for those affected the question that needs answering here today simple but rail carriers decided to double the length of trains to they do so without proper regard for those Arkansans affected this morning I'm sure we'll hear you saw the issue and I welcome the discussion I just ask that you keep in mind the unlike the opposition are testimony represents decades and hundreds of thousands of miles firsthand reverted spirits. Okay now we have a few questions from the committee. Of. The last representative Brooks your first. Thank you Mr chairman this is directed to whomever would like to answer it so you talked a lot about your testimony about the the mega trains what what currently is the average train length coming through state of Arkansas. When ever string length right now the state of Arkansas well there's average TrainLink that the GAO release an average track this is how we came up with what we're asking for in limitation ID five hundred feet in average TrainLink the GAO released two thousand nineteen to twenty six thousand three hundred thirty six feet seven thousand three hundred ninety two feet so we came up with eighty five hundred eighty one because it better fit the infrastructure the state of Arkansas into because it would still allow the rebels to grow. The average length of the train buries it depends on the train we took a snapshot yesterday across our subdivision on the subdivision we had twenty six trains I believe it was in front running over at the eighty five hundred foot limit and that the the longest of those trains were were over sixteen thousand feet. Follow follow me for what happened in in center or by a better phrase and I guess would be what our surrounding states do so what would happen the instance that you've got a train more than eighty five hundred feet if it's the state of Arkansas what has happened appoint I think the best way to look at that address that is the way other industries address the same issue if you look at the trucking industry there's different weight restrictions top restrictions when it passes into the State we all see the way stations we pass into another state and that's done so so it fits that state's infrastructure I don't think we should look at rail any different then we look at any other transportation industry thank you. Next on the list representantes you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair and of they will not question refuge broke charged on it was how did you come up with the eighty five hundred feet thank you venture that but if you want to leverage it a little more of that that's that's okay but one of the things that concerns me and make sure that I understand you know is from a safety standpoint of the crossings in you touched on a while ago when I know we're in Arkansas we have the authority to pass laws that regulate how long the crossing can be blocked and I think we've got one on the books now but I think it's extremely weak piece of legislation so if you would just tell you Address that please how did you come up with eighty five hundred make sure I understand that and also of. Forty two thoughts on is what we need to do is force legislation concerning how long crosses are being blocked sure no problem you we talked about the the link to how we came up with that we want to be as reasonable as possible not trying to hurt any the carriers in the state of Arkansas these carriers Davis both of professions that allowed us to support our families but to elaborate on that not to pick on university got to both of us work for and we appreciate them as a corporation but they're the largest class one carrier in the state as far as mileage is concerned when we looked at their infrastructure and eighty nine sightings in the state now the eighty nine sightings eighty five hundred foot train only fit in thirty of those sightings and once you jump up to ten thousand foot trying it only fifty seven sightings and want to jump up to twelve thousand above there's not a sighting in the State of Arkansas currently on union Pacific's infrastructure that a holder twelve thousand foot train and what that leads to is exactly what representantes talking about it leads to train seven set up the stage and they wait to make meets and that forces us to block crossings whenever we run a territory we typically try to run a law that a lot of our career on the same grounds were very familiar with those fronts we know we're trains will fit the stale farmers crossings stay out of town but once you get up to twelve thousand fourteen thousand foot train it limits us on where we could actually stop and not wait when we're staging or if there's a breakdown or derailment or anything else it's going to impact crossings greater and greater as time goes on I think we're going to see the public is what scares me not only would affect their safety but I am I'm afraid it affected patients as well and you will end up having more accidents because people realize it's going to take twice as long even if the trance moving to get to the crossing I'm worried that they'll try to out run the train beat us to the crossings in the future follow. Thank you Mr chair appreciate denture I'm just curious do you know of any litigation gives the railroads for or they may have had intersections blog for people could not get around and is a result of that the you know may be applied first loss of property was destroyed or whatever do you know a verification set directly go to that issue yes Sir yes Sir actually there's actually a case currently being pursued they're taking depositions today we had a member that we were trying to get to come in to testify but he's taking that position today some Bunkie Louisiana that the train was stopped there is a difference German had gone into cardiac arrest able to stop they'd ask for the trying to be cut now when I at when asked for us to cut the crossing as a conductor I can't just on my own power walk back and cut across even though I know that's what I'm supposed to do what I have to do is ask for permission from Omaha Omaha did in this case didn't grant permission to cut the crossing the gentleman they ended up not being able to make it to the hospital they brought in a helicopter helicopter had to land about a mile away in a sugar cane field and the gentleman ended up dying on the way to the hospital because of an early. A representative to let your next on the list. Thank you Mr on page seven of your hand out you have training legislation a proposed map and this is according to your demographic here as of February twentieth twenty twenty one and it does not show that any other state has passed this kind of legislation at this point time is that correct that is correct we were actually the first state to propose this legislation two thousand nineteen we looked at what had gone on east of the Mississippi the east coast rail of railroads and the damage that that they'd incurred and we were trying to get out ahead of this at that time sense in other states have realized you know how much damage that this is constant in the dangers involved so they started to come on board to is relatively new issue but I would say just because another state hasn't passed it doesn't mean the Arkansas Arkansas is known to serve. Hello. So if we were to pass this we would be the first state and out of all states to to pass this kind of legislation correct well theoretically we will be there actually having the same hearing today in Illinois so it's possibly they could be moving ahead of us I'm not sure. The representative Bryant you're next on the list. Thank you Mr chairman. A polling on with representative berry was asking her. Try to get some clarity confines research so the state has a R. D. O. T. to kind of partner with federal DOT we got State Board aeronautics partners with the FAA Arkansas game and fish and Corbin years parting with some boating along with you know these all these entities is the State not have any partnership with with that for a. One state that has a partnership is Texas of but no we have we do not have that partnership here to Texas at the railroad commission we do not have a real mission now that doesn't say for by the taxpayers that doesn't say that the DOT in Arkansas DOT and the F. R. A. can't coincide and work together if there was an issue okay follow Mr follows just for clarity who owns maintains and operates the the infrastructure of the railyard sure this is a privately held companies we're talking about and I know there's a concern there were they'll say were imposing a restriction on on private property but the concern is that their private property intersects public property and it and that has an effect on public safety just as the truck has an an effect on public safety we have a weight limitation that went from Tatian on a truck traveling down the interstate now that's a that's a private truck wear and tear on the truck I understand that but it still can have an adverse effect on safety when it comes to other drivers. A representative bear you're next on the list. Thank you Mr chairman sought to follow up to a representative Tosh is question are you aware of any litigation past or present in the State of Arkansas that deals with trains blocking the intersection where there is loss loss of life I really you know Louisiana is in Louisiana I want to know about Arkansas no no Sir we're not and we're not aware of anyone trying to get out ahead of that this this and follow up Mr chairman follows so the way I see this is more of a a jobs creation of issue because if you you can have a twelve thousand foot train you have to six thousand foot trains that creates twice as many conductors and your teamsters guy right engineers yes yes yes so increased prices committee jobs creates twice as many conductors which equates to higher pay so I don't see I see this more as a jobs type of initiative by by your organization instead of a safety issue what I know that the railroad coming to make that argument but I think it's important to look at the infrastructure argument we're making here because the crews are only allowed to work a set amount of time we we have a twelve hour window that we can work once we get twelve hours we can't move and since staging takes place in the trains are too large for the infrastructure most of these trains if it's a twelve thousand foot train will take two to three crews to get it to its its eventual what location anyways so it doesn't really eliminate any any cruise what they're wanting to do is they're going to eliminate use of fuel and and the wear and tear on equipment. Thank. Okay representative hawk you're next on the list. Thank you Mr chairman I did want to state thank you representative very for that question in my town the closest town to where I live in the county is it train towns all of them in my district most of the towns are trained town there was a death while they were waiting for an ambulance at the crossing and because of that there was a lawsuit and and that an overpass was had to be built at the expense of the city actually to create that over passes so that there would not be there were two places in the city that were blocked at the time there was nothing that you could do to get around so that has been some time ago and that does allow and I know that there is support for All restricting the length of trains by the towns that are in my district in particular in the western part of the district because every five miles there's a town with the train going through it so I thank you for bringing this bill forward thank you next on the list represents Springer you're recognized for a question. Question I don't have a question I was just trying to understand what the question was being asked of the individuals okay anymore questions from committee representative let. I'm just gonna talk loud. The is there ten years off. Aereo in Arkansas in the last five years can you tell us how many wrecks or train wrecks we've had of trains that are eighty five hundred or under verses eighty five hunter over in the last five years the last several years. We can try to compile that data but we run into a little bit of an issue because if you look five years in the past an eighty five hundred foot train was something that you almost didn't see it was it was something early in my career fee if you showed up to work and we had an eight thousand eighty five hundred for trying it you were kind of astonished that you had a train along the long strange we typically ran were were coal trains and we wanted to make sure this limited physical train but what's happening now is the carriers are taking a loaded coal train in the coupling up to empty coal train so they're doubling that size of what used to be our longest co trying now the data that we could probably find to be more recent because it's been over really the last year and a half of this is taking place. Follow. I thank you Mr are you aware of any rack in the State of Arkansas in the last year two years of a train over eighty five hundred feet. We've had a lot of heads up yes I do yes I do lumber lumber Arkansas. what we had a a catastrophic event there so yes and that train was twelve thousand. it was intermodal freight. Okay say no more questions thank you for your testimony general thank you we've got would let those And speaking for the committees for the bill speak we have six on the list first we have Thomas Burch feel Mister Burchfield you hear. Do not seem next we have the DJ Dancin. Mr Denson okay option known that J. S. McNab make me here. If I pronounce it wrong you pronounce it correctly remember you have two minutes on the clock so you can pronounce your name when you start your testimony will begin your time. Thank you Mr chairman and will be able to Michael closely. Thank you what thank you Mr chairman committee for let me speak today my name is Jeff McKenzie. I've been a railroad employee for the seventeen years. On your hand out on page three I'd like to touch base with the The train operator the communication with the rear locomotive for the rear device at the Ritz training. Is is an. better okay. Yes a necessary to require the crew on the lead locomotive to maintain communication with the the rear District of packed or their we're in device on the car and the longer the train to get. The more more that fails you have issues going around curves over your grades of Trav and the that's what lets you know that the. You have air travel away to train that way you're able stop loss you know or anything you need thank you. Any questions from committee. Seeing none thank you for your testimony. Mr Kinsey of the next we have Norman something I can't pronounce last name can't read it so you can come up in. Announcer forcing. Then once you start to testimony will begin your time. Normandy trow no wonder I can pronounce as. The Arkansas native are you may proceed more Mr chairman ladies and gentlemen thank you have been here a name is Norman you try once again locomotive engineer for sixteen years the US navy veteran I'm here to speak on behalf of house bill sixteen thirty one. Want to read you the definition of safer secure from liability to harm injury danger or risk free from her injury dangerous. And also reads involve little or no risk of mishap error or accept or. Now as you know. Today's care to make some major changes in two thousand nineteen and twenty during those times we seen certain location shut down reduced and increased TrainLink yet they say it's safer. Trainings have increased to two miles in sometime three miles plus or minus how is this say for you know the old saying give an inch they'll take a mile in this case is two to three. Overall I train handling skills have changed to accommodate the extra train links increasing danger and risk to the general public and the train crews how is this say for. All this you may ask for what. With vulture cap limited best it's about maximizing profits without regard to safety or general public or simple ease. If the general public trying crew at risk even more is the probability of a derailment accident increase while operating a two to three mile training dancers yes. I ask you ladies and gentleman listen closely to our voices listened closely to American citizen and listen closely to our testimonies and after all that I ask you to make a decision what is the best interests of the state and its or candles. In Louisiana. Thanks for testimony questions a committee. Thanks for your time thank you testimony next available this Fred full Shay is that correct if not I thought so. Our menu for less time for it you may the bird. Introduce yourself new begin you time Fredrick J. S. as a state legislator direct for smart transportation thank you chairman thank you members for have me get here again today. I've got seven years on the road and a lot has changed over those seven years and a lot hasn't. one thing it changed seven years ago eight thousand foot train was maximum TrainLink leaving out North Little Rock Arkansas. Today we see trains with the so what seems to be an unlimited size about seventeen eighteen thousand feet. Urbano changes in infrastructure citing seven link then. Road crossings haven't changed your road crossings. Still hold a car. There's for communication with the Omaha which leads to ways Omaha the dispatchers work in these territories here in the state. Have no experience with the lay of the land with the territory where the crossings are how long the trains. Are that that can fit in those locations. Another issue that we have as radio communication are handled radios do not communicate to the head end of train. That's ten thousand feet long which again leads to delays longer block crossings. ELT devices which is our emergency device to to place the training emergency from the rear end fail quite regularly because they're not built to handle these trains. Emergency situations on a ten thousand foot train of the doctors on the ground as hand held radio doesn't work he's out a lot we're not allowed to have our cell phones we can't can't carry him on the ground as of four out of the cab. There have been have been quite a few situations here in the state of Arkansas as far as what crosses go for example many of you are probably know about may flowers the issues we've had their kids late for school quite often hours at a time because of what crossings. We're not allowed to unblock these crosses were not allowed to step off as a conductor and cut these trains unless we have permission from almost for sure you're out of time. Any questions representative let. I just want you to referenced a specific example of may flowers or those it it I that blocking was or were those eighty five hundred or a hundred under trains or eighty five hundred over trains the the maximum TrainLink I think on the Westin which goes through their for that siding is is probably pretty close to eighty five hundred feet so chances are it was either more than eighty five hundred feet and didn't fit. Or we simply weren't allowed to cut the crossing which we would have had to do if it was over eighty five hundred feet. Any other questions from committee. Thank you again for your time rejection on next revenue list Wade Marshall. Mr Marshall. Please. Identify yourself we'll put you on time as you begin place. Thank you Mr chair committee my name's Wade Marshall president Arkansas professional firefighters and I'd like to speak in favor this bill is a mission before it is a safety issue there's a cliche in the fire service goes something like John Wayne time whenever you're cut off from help and. On the other side of the tracks when the. Gates close the tactical decisions injured water supply your risk reward changes and As my career goes some of those crossings it have become over passes they they're all tragedy driven and is these get longer those are short trains. Relatively short trains as a grow because the more those in. I appreciate your tournament at the one more thing if it was a jobs bill I wish it had cabooses related bring those back thank you. Any questions for Mr Marshall. Thank you very testimony. Okay next speak against the bill Paul Benham Mr Ben would you approach them for yourself. And remember we've got you on the call so. Mr chairman members of the committee on Paul Michael close please Paul. Paul bent the law firm Friday Eldredge and Clark I'm representing the Association of Arkansas real roads which consists of the class one railroads running across Arkansas university BNSF in Kansas city southern tier speak against the bill of the bill seeks to limited the late the trains eighty five hundred feet in doing so it raises the question to what extent can states enact laws restricting Interstate Commerce answers simply they cannot the US constitution is preempted that issue this issue was decided in nineteen forty five in the U. S. Supreme Court case where Arizona chapter there was a challenge to an Arizona law liberties train links the court held the state regulation trainings violates the Commerce Clause of the US constitution it said the states cannot you retire early restricted free flow of commerce across state lines or interfere with interstate commerce in matters that require national uniformity it also and noted the practical effect of such regulations to control operations between over the boundaries of the state. This the the necessity of breaking and re assembling trains coming into and out of state is is the issue. If Arkansas were to adopt this law would essentially set the limits for the rest of the states surrounding it the court went on to say that the lakes of trains to be regulated if it is to be regulated it is only Congress that has that authority the fact that Congress has not acted in an area where it has already does not give states cart block to adopt whatever regulations they choose. Arizona argued that the regulations necessary for the safety of the residents same rationale he per House Bill sixteen thirty one but the court rejected that argument the court's decision was a categorical statement that any state regulation training links violates the Commerce Clause and is therefore invalid you've heard a number of safety issues raised here some relate to eighty five hundred foot trying some do not the fact is is noted I think in your hand I'm not sure what that is but the GAO report twenty nineteen voted then the variety of these factors that go into a train safety and said that the F. R. A. was the agency to make those determinations your time's up missed minimize your tech questions any questions Mr Benham okay let me let me get the right owners say. Representative Bryant you're recognized then we'll go down the list raise your hand again those have questions go ahead represent right you would. Yes What is your opinion that the train links just keep on increasing. Apparently out what I'm what I'm gathering is there growing slowly but over the last couple years they really they really increase the point to where this issue gets raised what's what he think that because of that welcome number one there's efficiencies in operation we have more this technologically advanced equipment and such secondly the roads making pretty good investments in their in their infrastructure I think it's over a hundred million dollars in Arkansas alone. The there is a there is a physical limit communicate just exponentially increased until you know who knows what but there are a lot of limitations on the length of trains elevation topography the the cargo is being carried the the number of cars that you have put into the consist of a variety of things so there are practical limitations on how how long trains can be. Okay next on the list representative Springer you're recognized. Thank. Thank you Mr chair. Mr Baynham Bynum what did you say anything okay what is your what is your response to you you made reference to the handout that was that we have here title forty nine U. S. cold. Twenty one oh six what is your response to that that that they've somewhat quoted saying that of the states have the right to adopt a continual enforce the law regulation or to related to real world safety that I thought I may be here to speak to that a little bit will be glad to put that means is that if these the federal government is not preempted the field. Of regulation or the subject of regulation states are free to act here the spring court in nineteen forty five said essentially that the area railroad safety has been preempted by the sperm the the supremacy clause and Commerce Clause The. constitution and S. F. already noted the authority to investigate and determine what is necessary for road safety glass with FRA. Follow up missed. So you're saying that this is this was back in nineteen win forty five that you're making reference to yes ma'am okay there's been no such of regulation since that time well. Mmhm there but a lot of regulations but that as it relates to this particular thing about train safety that case is still good law and has been cited numerous times as recently as I think two thousand. Recently. Last question Mister chair. Okay go ahead. As the legal authority for the rare roads do you take the position that you're you're waiting for construct the catastrophe to happen before you addressed the moments of trains is that your position no ma'am please to trying to be an address it's being addressed by their for a. Okay. Their service representative rye. Thank you thank you Mr chairman Sir I have a question for you The train business is one of the biggest businesses in the United States would you not agree with that is a large business okay. Safety has to be one of the most important points with. The train business because if people are if you have rex or anything like that with the with trains not only is it bad for folks is bad for business. don't do you not think that the train business itself is actually in the business of being careful because actually they can get sued and everything else if if things are not operated in right manner would you not say that. I agree completely we'll be furnished larocque spent eight hundred million the million dollars on infrastructure and safety in Arkansas and then run trains that are unsafe. Thanks for thank you thank you for your testimony Mr Benham one yep we do have one more question representantes de of questions. Thank you Mr just follow up little bit talk about safety one of the things concerns I have it and you know tranger faster. than they used to be but we still have laws on the books and and one of them is that the railroad company is only required to for visibility purposes for some of these rule crossings they only have to clear that debris bag for about a hundred yards I think the way the law is written about frost three three three hundred and fifty page would change faster trains longer made it more difficult for them to stop and I have how do we how do we just leave in the visibility for these rule cross and at a hundred and fifty paid I don't I don't understand how the railroad company can justify that rental companies set their own standards in compliance with state law many of the road companies cleared vegetation that exceed the state law limits. Any other questions from Mister benefits represent Brian. I just it in researching this I find article seventeen of the state constitution that gives the thorny of the of the rail to kind of do what they want because back in back in that area this with people Arkansas felt about it but then the research that that it fell underneath the what was to be known as public service commission to generate the rules that oversee the railroads in Arkansas not until nineteen fifty seven and again in nineteen seventy one to transfer or in the commerce department of Arkansas it in any of your legal findings our research to find any agency in the State of Arkansas that may have jurisdiction over matters like this service department transportation to the I can't remember the year exactly was in the late eighties early nineties that jurisdiction was transferred from the commerce department which was abolished a belief and transferred to this to the apartment transportation is it within the state yes okay thank you. You saying no more questions thank you testimony Mr Benham next on the list we have Mr Randy do. To defy yourself then we'll start your time. Thank you Mr chairman then thank you members of the committee I'll be very brief I would just I found myself again before you want to a man Paul been on the call covers this subject comprehensively this this and in my view from the standpoint of the members of the chamber of commerce and associated industries of Arkansas this is a competitiveness issue Arkansas has one of the finest networks of class one rail service in the country. And they these companies continue to invest enormous amounts of money and making sure that their tracks in their their crossings and everything else are up to standard so they can function competitively One of the issues that we we've got to recognize is that these are increasing TrainLink served become a matter of economics what is the safest most economical way to transport basically And now these these enormous commodity loads at that they typically Hollowell most of the class one lines. And and we urge you just as a as our membership on behalf of our membership urging her vote against the bill. Thank you very much Mr quick question representative Springer you take questions sure absolutely The string recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair of a your counsel indicated that of the Arkansas department of transportation would be the proper party based upon the representative Bryant's questions to regulate this have you all make contact with the department of transportation with respect to your position regarding this so that must Mister you represent chamber don't you yep that employer I. will his or her own journey I understand that I'm just saying this for as the well is there anyone this is hereby ordered is there anyone here from the Arkansas department of transportation to speak to this. CT one okay. Okay Mister Rogers you wanted. The. Okay thank you all right thank you all right any other questions Mr saying that thank you for your for testimony thank you did you have a question represent chair of Christian. Okay I'm sorry. That's what. Reserve the old Arkansas department of commerce. Morphed into the Arkansas transportation commission of which I was a part back in the late seventies through early mid eighties. When the transportation commission was morphed into the transportation safety agency and then brought forward into the highway police under the Department now the department of transportation that rail authority transferred without. But that rail authority basically covers rail planning it covers shortline crossing issues that covers a number of things are short lines but it does not G. to any particular degree deal with class one railroads in their operations for the state of Arkansas in addition to which is beyond the nineteen ninety five seating of any state authority governing blocked crossings or time and well on crossings and things like that because we had a hodgepodge of municipal laws and county ordinances and other things. On I know what the ninth circuit court said here just recently but there is a lot of things that will be in play and litigation and at this point from what authority was transferred to the DOT in this state we don't have the legal authority in Arkansas to uphold this we don't have the legal authority to stand and set the Interstate Commerce links on trains and and as much as is all of us feel that it would be a nice idea. And that it might have some merit we also see the management's point of the state carrying that forward you can't run this committee. R. D. would go ahead with your question. So my question is do you see that the state has any authority legally under the current conditions to be able to pass this on the law and be able to enforce it without winding up in court I'm not an attorney I would simply a man again Paul bedrooms comments and I'm I think I'm clear and understanding that you would not have the authority that the federal law the Interstate Commerce. Rules would apply not state law thank you okay thank you one more question. Thank you for waiting all this but this. You're pretty popular Mandela got a quick question for you almost feel like James Brown I get all eligible. Let's see if it is related to that way it be in your testimony you reference to the economic value to the communities as I understand that but. How would you how would you respond economics versus safety. Well I think safety will always trump if if indeed there is data that's you know that's repeal and an accurate safety is always our primary concern in any business I'm familiar with that's absolutely the roof. Most of our lots of our members are manufacturers and and and transportation companies and and and all of those companies that the primary goal every day is for everybody to go home the way they got to work. And I don't care if it's a railroad or manufacturing company or a steel mill or paper mill or whatever that's rule number one everybody goes home in the same shape they got to work in. So you know but economics would be. I suppose you'd say economics is one a. If safety is one that economics is one of the. because it in order to remain competitive they've the we all want cheap electricity we all want cheap commodities we all want cheap except unless you're a farmer annual high price commodities especially soybeans and corn cotton your those prices to be strong but well what we all want economics to benefit us and Transportation rail transportation is one of the key elements and that calculus and solving that equation. you've got to be able to move these commodities and economical way. Thank you Mr pre testimony next we have a list of brand by Boeing. Brian would you identify yourself for your within any may begin your testimony. Thank you Mr chair my name is Brian bow and I'm the deputy chief of staff for the attorney general's office and I'm here to raise concerns that the office is seen on this bill they have been addressed by Mr Benham we do have some concerns on federal preemption issues we have worked with the sponsor on the bill addressing these concerns to the extent that I can comment I'm happy to ask answer questions if you have any but given the fact that if this bill does pass it could end up in litigation my answers may be very limited and I do apologize for that it should be noted too that I have spoken with a sponsor and and informed her that if the bill does not pass we are more than willing to work with the sponsors in the industry to address the underlying issues of this bill. Any questions Mr bone. President Brent. You feel. The state has the ability to manage its own safety when it comes to interstate transportation commerce. I believe that's a loaded question that I can answer yes or no I wanted to get it turned out that I'll I'll rephrase that. The Federal Aviation decided that mowing supermax fifty sevens or where they to fly but state of Arkansas said. We do not want them to an airport to pick up our pastors would we have that authority to do that we would take the position that the FAA would control very similar to what the FRA does here in the federal safety actor also the Interstate Commerce concerns with a bill is drafted and. That answer questions thank you senator. So just to be clear. Your office feels confident that the issues that are being brought forth here today can be addressed without having. Say another law passed or moving forward with this piece of legislation. We understand the concerns that are raised by this bill we have gotten calls to our office on block crossings even from some of the members of some members on this committee we understand it is an issue a bill like this past if we were to defend it would have preemption concerns. We do think that we could work with the industry and representatives to address the issue and also the federal the FRA to address the issue. Any other questions. Thank you for your testimony thank you next we have drew. And I can't pronounce last name to keep step up pronounce your name they will who you with that we'll get you on the clock. Mr chairman members drew Tesch a senior director Union Pacific Railroad thank you. You Pacific operates one thousand three hundred twenty five miles of track in Arkansas. the first of all safety is our number one priority and everything we do as a public affairs director we get told over and over start meeting with with safety briefings and pushing a chair's intrepid hazards and that goes all the way from a long hauls on operating trades and everything in between from we operate one thousand three twenty five miles of track. Thirty two thousand miles of track in twenty three states Network Wes the Mississippi. That investment here in Arkansas's eight hundred thirty two million it attracts structures and facilities you investment in a rail system of thirty five billion from two thousand ten two thousand nineteen. Just last year we did thirty six longer sidings we got twenty plan for this year and those longer sidings are planned for here in Arkansas also you thanks to the the investment that we put in here in Arkansas and to other states it lets us upgrade and modernize our network America's real issues that Jesus the significant safety improvements across every recorded category over the last twenty years and as technology improvement is improved is enabled us to trades to carry more freight and can gradually increase links and safety metrics such as accident rates have improved they haven't worsened. You some the technology that's out there is distributed power have you seen some of these these trains that we're talking about some of the locomotives in front there in the middle and then in the back to the call that distributed power that's been tested for years and years before we actually implemented out there on on main lines we see that with improved breaking up than just normal locomotives in the front. I think some of the things that's being missed out there this if this legislation passes for tree lined it's it's not gonna meets all it means is more locomotives we're still gonna have these rail cars the southern states down here Arkansas Louisiana Texas southern regions where all the businesses in the United States where the manufacturing that's where the growth is we're seeing increased rail cars trooper sorry to interrupt you your time is up and I don't want to no problem showing five we have a few questions you take questions represents bring your first on the list. Thank you Mr chair of Sir have you seen this hand out of that has been produced by the. Opponents of this bill trying land. Have you seen this I've seen several hand outs on of that see that would. Let me just okay let me just call your attention thank you representative let me just call your attention to the page where it says number four. Number four on I guess is the fourth phase the third page use the number for the top. Right here. Yes yes. It says training operations require that the true crew in the lead locomotive maintain constant communications with the rear locomotives for the device on the real trail when these communications fail the train is restricted to thirty miles per hour and in some instances the trend is required to stop the longer the trying the more of these communications fail the loss of communication is very common when check trains go around curves and go over the tops of mountains do you agree with that. I agree that we spent twenty billion dollars in positive train control I agree that we spend four billion to three billion a year in putting back into infrastructure Fite tracking for technology to improve it every year. Follow up missed the chair hello my question is do you agree the loss of communication is very common when trains go around curves and are over the top this picture here that's in that do you agree that that occurs. That's my question. I agree yes we have so no. I don't agree with you okay okay thank you thank you XO list represent to let. I was my question is again and I've facets of several people and I'll ask you to you would you say your safety record on trains of eighty five hundred or less is greater or worse than your safety record of trains with eighty five hundred or more. The there's there's no data out there that shows that to the train length is. Is you know. Has any kind of issue out there was safety at all. Okay next a representative would occur. You're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr up Surrey that you've testified that the incredible investment in upgrades to sightings and other infrastructure and certainly that's laudable of. Can you imagine that your employer. would have any objection to self imposing a train length restriction until all of these upgrades have been performed so the people of Arkansas are protected. As Mr Bennett testified earlier we look at routes and decide on train leave and we make all kinds of decisions when we look at running train links and what size training we run on different routes. Follow follow but don't you think it be prudent until these and these much ballyhooed improvements are actually completed to self limit the length of trains and we do do that we make a decision on what we're running routes different routes we look at all those decisions to make this about factors will we build trains thank you representative Brian question. Thank you Mr these I guess these issues don't really mean much until you thought of affecting you personally and where I live on one side of the tracks if I've got to get a family member to a hospital or. In the hit this obstacle and I got to pick away obviously time is of the essence is there anything that the real companies are doing that have like a standard operating procedure in there by under this as if we're going to. Encounter the situations that you don't have to call home all information that may last another two to five minutes or or not at all but they have that authority on the track to do they need to do to prevent loss of life. We we work to improve that continuously we have our or MCC which is our twenty four hour emergency number it's it's embedded with all the EEOC's we work with law enforcement with protocols with with different routes with emergency personnel it's something we work on continuously to improve. Representative berry thank you Mr chairman setting aside all the discussion has been presented today would you agree with Mr Bannon's testimony that is not within the state's rights to to determine issues with trying length in the state yes Sir thank you one more question represents bring your one question please. Okay all right I don't see any more questions of represent flowers would you like to close for you test for your bill. Even in this process I've learned a lot and I appreciate everyone's attention and the questions that were asked. As I said when I opened this is. Not. A bill. Meant for is actually addressing commerce. This is a bill addressing safety. We have in our constitution. Section seventeen. That affords us the authority. To pass legislation and to make policy rules and regulations that dictate safety standards specifically for railroads and the state of Arkansas and that's our job. I believe there's something like sixteen thousand measures safety standards regulatory standards over the real. As you have heard. The questions that have been asking the information that's been provided by members. On your committee. The safety concerns and the actual tragedies that have already occurred. It's not a partisan issue. It's really an issue about what is safe for all of our students but most especially our rural citizens in our small cities. And so when we think about issues around convenience it's not about people waiting too long we've always had railroad crossings where people have had to wait. But we've heard about issues that can occur with the waiting that is happening now as a result of the lengthening of the trades. It's not about inconvenience. It's about someone being able to get to the hospital in time. Or even kids being able to get to school on time. Those are really really important. And you know you've heard today that this is a relatively new issue. And you heard Gerald mentioned that they tried to get in front of it two years ago. But I'm not going to. Focus on what. The witnesses for the bill said I'm going to touch on a few things that I heard from those who oppose the bill. You heard attorney Paul Benham. who is hired to represent his clients and. He is an expert in the law. It was Mr Benham who said that railroad companies set their standards in compliance with state law. He didn't say the FRA he didn't say federal standards he said with state law. Mister's up open up his comments about how this is a competitiveness issue. It is not a competitive in this issue this bill was not rent meant to And nor does it state anything about dealing with competitive to them this and that's why we want to limit. The lengthening or the length of trains. As a matter of fact when asked about safety Mr Cenac said safety would always trump economics. Based on factual data so I'd like to point you to. Some information that has been provided to you. From Grady Kaufman who was the deputy associate administrator for safety standards and program development for the FRA. So this is this comes from someone who is expert. And if you read this it's very short what it demonstrates. Is that main line art our main line derailment rates. And for those. Whose trains have lengthened. Derailments have gone up the purple and green lines are indicative of increased derailments. Four train lines that have increased their length. Again this is a safety issue. When and I can't remember his last name sent me to this be disrespectful but I just heard through so when the gentleman from union Pacific. Spoke he talked about the investments and. They're awesome investments. And I want to know that I'm not principally against lengthening the trains I am for competitiveness I am for economic growth I'm for jobs and for all of those things that's not what this is about. When asked about communication. And we just heard someone who was on the train. We've heard from an engineer who said who explained why communication from one end of the train to the other it's so important that they are not allowed to use their cell phones the newest technology. And that the communication tools that they use are not adequate. We also heard that the representative from the union Pacific say that they are in the process. Of making the investments. And I want to point this out if you all have a look at this. This indicates the sidings issue her chair all talk about that Mister sale talk about that earlier. If we haven't completed the work and the investment in the infrastructure that supports the lengthening of the trains why are we lengthening the trains first. You heard that question. If we if we establish the infrastructure to accommodate that. To ensure optimal safety. I would be here. So as state legislators when we recognize. That we're not safer. And that what we're trying to do is address this is not this is not a situation where we are asking to decrease existing train length. We see that in just a few years the trainings have doubled. And you didn't hear today anyone say that the industry standard we don't intend to go over this many feet. That we grow the train lengths we accommodated for safety we're gathering safety information. And so based on the safety data that we have Establish or collected as an industry our only standard is. Ten thousand feet. We can hear any of that we heard there is no data. That's a problem you all. And until there is data until the infrastructure fits the increase we have to do our job. I think everyone in this room is old enough to have seen jaws when I was a kid. I remember my dad. Going out into the water one time we went to the beach and I cried the whole time because I was certain that jobs is that even up. Because I remembered that in that movie. The authorities and the people who were supposed to keep people safe. Cared more about. In for ME cared more about the beach goers of the tourism. I don't think that that's extreme I'm not saying that I believe that. The train industry believes that they are growing the infrastructure as they go. But it's our job to make sure that we keep our people safe. And so I ask you to consider. I do pass on this bill so that we can keep our people safe. Before while the infrastructure is still growing thank you what's will of committee. I have a motion to pass representative Whitaker all in favor of do pass say aye. All opposed say no. Sari the Bill failed. Overall have a roll call two hands would you call the roll please. Representative building. Representative building. Representative would occur. Yeah. Yes. Representative Hillman so now. Representive Tosh. Yes representative Barker. Now representative rye. No representative Christensen yeah now representative brought. Now the representative in it represented in it representative Springer yes yes. Representative to let. Now representative ray. Representative Brady. Representative Brooks. No representative Haak. Representative. You don't have to do anything. Representative Kerr L. No representative Bryant yes yes representative Beary no no represent department shall now represented Watson represented Watson. Okay Committee it takes eleven votes to get out of the house you got four mo four votes the bill passes thank you for your time thank you very good presentation. The Bill pass sales I'm sorry you said it you said it. We're we're several thank you committee we're only seven votes short sorry. Committee I have a I have a I rules committee I have to go to them will turn it over to a representative Hillman we've got a couple bills I appreciate if you stay with us. Will be very much longer. All. For. I. These are represented by any you're recognized to present the house bill sixteen twenty. Mr chairman representative power Beatty District nine I'm here to percent House Bill sixteen oh two I would ask that Gil Rogers with are not join me at the table. Mr chairman this bill is a clean up bill brought to us by our dot today us an act to amend the law concerning references in the Arkansas code to the federal law concerning relocation assistance by the State Highway Commission and for other purposes. Allen nine email questions. You would you like to do more explaining on the bill. If you don't do we don't have to the I'll entertain questions okay anybody got questions. okay thank you. The representative would occur. Yeah just for just for a you know sake of argument what is the bill actually do. the bill is a clean up. Clean up bill it basically goes back on the the regulations on the federal regulation and and that was an act created in nineteen sixty eight and periodically that that regulation is amended and basically what this will do you will amend the state law and adopt the amendments that have probably over the the the last on the last time this was amended but as of January first of twenty twenty one in the docked all the changes to the specific tax since nineteen sixty eight and I do believe and Gil can correct me if I'm wrong that basically all these bills we have to match the federal rules on relocation assistance I think we can adopt a specific state law that relocation if we choose but we're bound by the federal law so this would simply tied this language to the specific acting U. S. Code and Gil can expand on that more if if if the. Not sorry about this I think that that's adequate to step to conform with federal law is always a good reason to pass a bill here right. Thank you Mr represents bring a. No question. I am questions. Would you like to close for your bill I'm closed Mr awaits you thought represent all. Okay. You closed yes yes we're the committee. Okay motion might do pass those of favour say aye. Pose no. If passed your bill thank you Mr chairman thank you committee representative McCollum. You are recognized to present the US house bill seventeen oh two. Thank you Mr chairman committee. Always good to see the room empty out when you're about to present your bill so. these these a representative B. McCullough district thirty three of these bills today are brought to you from the cycling community if which myself and Senator Irvin or part of also have a a Dane F. **** bicycle pedestrian coordinator for the city of a fable was involved in an Mr Joe Jacobs from Arkansas state parks and chair of the governor's Advisory Council and on cycling and I'll probably say a few words in a second I'm as Arkansas natural state cycling roads paths and trails become more more of a draw for tourism economic growth and quality of life and health all over our state. Ammar laws need to be updated for best practices in further set us up as a bike friendly state this bill addresses specifically bicycles and crosswalks current law states a person must get off his or her bike and walking across a crosswalk this bill amends the statute say the cyclists may stay in the saddle but still must yield the right of way to pedestrians given audible signal before overtaking and passing a pedestrian. And has all the rights and duties applicables to pedestrians using the crosswalk also a cyclist must maintain reasonable speed when operating on a sidewalk path trail across the driveway or on a crosswalk you've received a letter of support to from the Arkansas governor's Council Advisory Council in cycling in a let Mr Joe Jacobs speak to that. good morning I'm speaking mainly on behalf the governor's Advisory Council on cycling the one thing about this crosswalks and what's happened more recently is and this happens in our I can think of at least three state parks we have this issue right now we have a lot of new mountain bike trails that are multi use got pedestrians and I'm not bikes on a particularly there's there's got to be twenty or thirty of them just involve as to on our medical valid who are paramount state park down the road has all right two of them right now so what happens is a cyclist comes into it you assume that you have all the same rights as the pedestrian in that arm crosswalk which you don't by state law right now so this is just kind of cleans out it makes no change in the way behavior of either the cyclists or the drivers as really it's just just sent a clear that they still have the right to be in that are crosswalk even if they don't get off the bike. Thank you. Thanks any questions if anybody has a. Representative taller. Thank you Mr I certainly commend the effort here I I see the need for this and as somebody who may not look like it but actually spends quite a bit of time on on our great Arkansas pass I do stand it mine is more of my questions are more of a technical nature on this bill on page one Well I guess line thirty six and then Page two line one when it's talking about give an audible signal before overtaking in passing a pedestrian I guess on the technical nature and and just thinking through I do have a good friend who is deaf and who is a avid cyclist and so I don't know that they would be able to necessarily. Ellen do this and effective way and I didn't know if if that had been given any consideration and then my second my second question technical question is on page two of the line number nine where it says the speed greater than is reasonable and prudent and I just is there a reference of all that. I'm a what's reasonable and prudent to me as a cyclist may not necessarily be reasonable and prudent to somebody else and I I didn't know if there was a clear definition of that or it is if if that can be explained. Adult I don't know about the engineering of the the speed of the cyclist I know that the most crosswalks are designed to minimize speed for everybody I will speak to the audible signal I believe in our I'm not positive that state law but I know in many municipalities including little rock that a a bill is required on a bicycle for anybody operating a bicycle on the road I would include crossing roads and crosswalks and whatnot so there should be an ability for people to use bell said not that they always do but I've got this. Okay I would also speak to that I. I also it's not just people who are hard of hearing or deaf many people are wearing headphones or listening to music and I do believe that as a cyclist it is on the cyclist to make sure that they're going at a safe speed that they are paying attention to what's what's going on it's it's not just everybody get out of my way I know sometimes it may seem like that was some but for most people who are reasonable cyclists gonna slow down and and be safe and and watch I don't assume that anybody's gonna know on there or hear me I'm ready to stop if I have to follow up yes I and and I can clearly understand that and you reference specific cross walks and everything else I was just wondering if it will there actually be a speed or will there be something posted at those crosswalks to ensure that. What is reasonable and prudent going across will be something that is tangible number as opposed to you know just something that's floating out because I mean if I'm a professional cyclist what's reasonable and prudent in my control of the bicycle is one thing if I'm not it may be another but it's just it's just one of those things where you know as a pedestrian I'm not going necessarily know that that person's a professional cyclists or a person's a novice into know what they're doing I mean I that that's my only hang up with it like I said I I the intent of this I think it's great I think it's but I I think there just needs to be some kind of signage or something put up with those crosswalks to be able to. Ensure that the intent of this bill is is what. It is something that that can be enforced. represent tala aber I really appreciate that question I believe one of the things that this bill will do will allow us to now if once this is put in to laws to educate cycling community further about this we we have cyclists blowing through crosswalks anyway but I believe this is a way for us to to not only make it safer for our cyclists but also to educate everybody about that and to to make it safer for everyone. We are all all out and that similar to I mean there's no law that says that somebody walking a pedestrian walking into a crosswalk has to look both ways or watch for traffic or but we all do I think that the safety of the cyclist would depend on their attention to what's going on around them just like other laws we have it's not necessarily a right of way is just that there are you know they still have the right away to walk or bike across that doesn't change it's just that they can be on the bike now the as far as setting speed limits it would it would really depart depend on the particular municipality if they wanted to do that and if they felt they needed to I know that like in and Bellavista as I've mentioned before most these crosswalks are on ridgelines you're right amount bike you're coming up slowly to get to it you you're not flying down a hill and across our area cross walk in in most cases the designs that I've seen even like in the State Parks and all they're designed with a slowing measures down before you get to the road purposely to slow cyclists down before they get to the road and and I know a lot of this bill has to do with with the city of Fayetteville is really more about street bikes and the ability to allow from the designers of cycling infrastructure also use those crosswalks to save money to make traffic flow a little bit better and they felt like you know people assume that because a pedestrian has these rights that they have the same rights even if they're on the bike and that this was to clean that up some so they weren't sending people out with bright student have basically so I just you know it kind of really depends on what the situation is and how the city wants to do it some cities will put speed limits on their bike paths you know and that that would work without all sales of we're we're we we need to proceed here if. We can of representative Brad do you have a short questions were about to lose a quorum and I'm sure run it understood is not once do that I understood I so that the Imelda selling Houston road there is a crosswalk that is in essence in the middle of the road and there is the tree line is you know fifteen feet off. So with this bill if if somebody's coming out of that tree line going at a reasonable speed but fast enough to assume they've got their the right away across the cross the crosswalk and the driver intersects them and hits them. That would be a. A misdemeanor or a a fine against the driver with this law I'm sure would depend on a lot of specific situations are not sight distance and all that kind of stuff for the driver also but I believe it's a state law for anybody who's in the crosswalk has the right of way which would mean it has long as it's not in an intersection so that would mean that that it would be up to the driver to watch for and I know in Bellavista all those crosswalks have signage prior to the crosswalk allowing drivers to know that there could be somebody up there so I'm not familiar with a particular one you're talking about or how fast anybody get through that or out of the tree line but I generally I know that most the holes I climb out there or not I do it a bit odd you're coming up on the crosswalk is a place to rest. So so different. The representative Christiansen. You're recognized. Okay represent help. Okay. Anybody else have questions. Okay represent because you're recognized close for your bill come close thank you of. Represent hawkers motion do pass. All in favor say aye opposed no. Exemplo you pass your bill you're now recognized to present house bill seventeen ten thank you Mr chair again cycling tourism's bring a lot of money to the state we want to continue to encourage and protect native our Kansans in those that come from out of state to make sure they have a safe and fun experience here in Arkansas this bill addresses a motorist overtaking a bicycle in Arkansas we currently have what's known as the three foot rule whereby vehicle must be at a safe distance of not less than three feet when overtaking a bicycle currently if you violate three foot rule the punishment this bill stays the same you're subjected to a fine not to exceed a hundred dollars this bill adds to subsections if a driver violates the three foot rule and the result is a collision causing serious physical injury to the person on the over taken bicycle the driver upon conviction is guilty of a Class a misdemeanor. Subsection the next subsection the driver who purposefully violates the three foot rule causes serious physical injury to the person on the overtaken by sickle shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class D. felony there are some motorists to harass and buzz cyclist and can come very close to them many of the cyclists are committee been hit by mirrors things like that and so that's what that addresses we also have a letter of support from the governor's Advisory Council on this also and let Mr Jacobs make any additional comments. Close yeah the only thing I really mention here is it doesn't does the changes in here do not change behavior of anybody under the law right now this is this is already state law as far as a three foot passing law what it does is that strength and strength insert song and really strengthens the will of some recycling roll call the penalty pass which is some registered like because who wants to get really close possible in Arkansas off the road so to that's the main purpose of this thank you. Okay represent Brad you have a question it what would in statute tell the the bicycles were to be on the roadway. Like that the nears the to the right side within three feet of the car or just leave the language is actually they need to right to the right as far as as far right as is safe which leaves it kind of opened for the cyclist aside I know that are valley road out here's a really good example there's a hell on it that you have to climb up and get over the state of the far right cars will try to pass you but they don't have line of sight so if you take the land just on the climb you're safer because they're not going to try to get around you the ones come over the top you move to the side let them by same thing and it turned out there so the language is set for the cyclists to make the decision of what's actually safe and not the driver. Any other questions from the committee. Represent all. Okay not a motion do pass a discussion. Those in favor say aye. Opposed no. Motion carried and your bill has passed thank you Mr thank you committee thanks for hanging around is there anyone else here to to present a bill today.