State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs-Senate

All right audience members and members of the committee the special orders of business will be handled by Senator Rapert is running a bill insurance commerce we're trying to get some smaller bills out here while we're waiting for him to come back I think the first on the agenda is a code Senator code will H. B. one six six six I mean sure this is a quick and easy bill so HB one six six six an ominous title whenever you're ready Sir. Thank. Yes Sir thanks any general Khaleel Senator twenty three I have with the Frank Gehry how it in cling bill. Recognizer. Thank you Mr chairman Frank Gehry legislative audit this bill makes a series of of technical changes we wanted to make over the years I'll give you three specific ones and then the rest of a fall into it in the same class Page two line for we've noticed that other bills are starting to refer to privileged documents we think we can get privileged documents under our code as it existed however to be clear we want to add privilege to this language Page two line fourteen sometimes we need records from other entities that are not strictly financial in nature this bill will strike the word financial. Page four lines eight and nine we don't want to pay somebody a subpoenaed witness fee before they show up we want them to show up first earned the money and then we will pay them our rules provide for that now we have a Supreme Court decision that affirms we can do that however this will make it clear all of the other changes in this bill are places where we refer to entities of the state and or political subdivisions of the state and then we subsequently only refer to entities and we are adding the word subdivisions to make it clear that we are still referring to both categories other than that Mr chairman I understand there's some concern or some questions about whether this bill deals with foundations has nothing to do with foundations doesn't touch the existing arrangements with that that's the bill in question committee. Anybody speak for against the bill may on the revenue I signed up for this one. A are you closer. I'll close thank you thank you what is the will of committee a motion to pass Senator Tucker second by Senator Davis all in favor say aye opposed resolution Sir. Next believe we have a center of Stubblefield presenting. H. B. one four four four so as quickly as well. You're recognized Sir. Thank you Mr chairman thank you Committee. Fourteen forty four. As back in two thousand thirteen H. B. one fifty one established under procreation payable from cash funds for the Commissioner of State lands in the amount of two hundred fifty thousand dollars for what's called a and adopted a document program since that time a grand total of zero individuals have expressed an interest in the program and in two thousand twenty one H. B. Levin eighty two the Commissioner listing of state lands Budget bills eliminate that preparation for the program so all this bill does is repeal of that language is for a program that's already done away with any questions committee. C. nine sorry closer already having by speak for against the bill I do not see anybody Sir you close your bill all right with that I'll accept a motion committee motion to pass center I have a second Saturday was all in favor say aye. All opposed gradually Sir. I think we have a representative rob I think you have a concurring house amendment to do for Senator Irvin which should be quick and we have your daylight saving time you like first come up present Sir. First this is the concurring house amendment for SP two eighty three to eighty three. Members I think this is just adding some more names to that music appreciation day I want to make sure the sponsors here anything need to add to that. Okay. Your meixel certainly turn it on please all right no Sir the only amendment of a center that I can remember is when we included all states around Arkansas. To make it to where. If that daylight saving time once it would go no Sir we're a different deal right now I'm sorry about that we're on the SP two eighty three which is incurring resin concurring amendment from the house that you would Senator Irvin we want to clear that up since you're at the table. Let's just do this when we can have the open debate about it let's we can conquer the amendment the house amendment it's just basically adds more people less any questions undertake a motion to concur that amendment have a motion we have a second all of favour say aye okay we've passed the concurring amendment for its B. two eighty three Sir now can move to your daylight savings bill which is H. B.. One zero one seven that's right as correction. You tell me one hello you're good you're good okay Sir this is been amended early in the process to include protections Oklahoma Louisiana Tennessee Missouri Mississippi. And and basically what what this is saying were we think we're on the direction for daylight saving time going across the nation senator Rubio out of Texas is got a bill already on the federal level and all we're trying to do is we're gonna follow suit if daylight saving time comes to the all the states around us. Okay we have any questions committee. C. nine we having spent by speak for against the bill. Sir you closing your bill. Some clothes. All right was the will of committee. I have a motion I will second that all in favor say aye opposed. Hi. This call the roll on it since. The way we need to be. Senator Bledsoe. Senator English. Senator English. Senator Hester. Senator Hester. Senator Davis. Senator Ballinger. Senator Ballinger. Senator Tucker. This. I'm sorry Sir your bill is failed for lack of review five votes our children are appreciate you thank you thank you so much thank you. Sir Clark what are you what are you running day. Are the cost. Okay. It says you have to build on your own on your own present them but if not we can hear your Constitutional amendments whenever you're ready. Yes Sir I believe the first one is. S. J. R. eighteen. And SP five fifties what we have on the agenda. To present S. G. R. eighteen K. S. J. R. eighteen. I am not going to present It is supposed to be a resolution but has a number for an amendment so I'm asking that they sent it back over with an S. or answer when asked J. R. that's because a lot of confusion but. so I'll wait until we haven't re entered as an S. R. okay without objection pull down two is amended you represent Senate bill five fifty Senate bill five fifteen of. Is of the bill I brought to you last week we've before I guess an act concerning the of Peter for a phone call but in making a correctional facility of and originally the bill said that you could not that are correctional facilities could not charge more than the intrastate right. it still says that for the department of corrections but the sheriff's testified. That. Of for various reasons I also contractor of that they needed to charge more and that they charged the twenty to thirty cents was the mostly charged was we never met but I was liberal and on we amended it on page three. line too because permit shall be thirty cents or no more than the maximum cost per minute of an interest interstate in my telephone call so are amended to the maximum. Of the higher of what they said was the most that they charged. So thirty cents for the interstate right whichever is higher than that would be thirty cents and I'll be happy to take any questions thank you any questions committee. Senator recognized. Thank you senator Sir Clark do you know if is there a start up fee as well as the permit fee one inmate makes a call the night. Of I do know of there are other fees that that are allowed a connection fee is not allowed in this bill and what they didn't mention was the three dollar connection fee the along with the. but that's not allowed in the Senate if this bill passes they can just be charged a thirty cents per minute and not the connections or there are other charges but but not a connection. Okay what okay one of the other charges of click Colson of the again I do not have the literature on that when we look at everything that of. Whoever the government agency is allows and that's what. This bill allows but it does the connection please not while is a connection fee will not be allowed to still pass okay thank you senator thank you Tucker I think Sullivan may be able to answer questions he indicated to me so when you can come up and test. Please leave your name and title for the record. Sullivan grace secretary corrections of good and good afternoon miss Mr chessen Senator talk I just wanted to state for the record Senator of of Clark's understanding is correct in our current inmate phone contract the Department eliminated connection fees and any other surcharges so this bill for us would lower the Interstate rate from twenty five cent which is our current rate under contract to the intrastate rate which is twenty one set set by the FTC's or lowers four cent for our inmates and those insurers that our current practice remains in place which is the elimination of any connection fees for state inmates. Thank you senator correct thank you more questions committee. Sir Clark I know the sheriff's association and some other people has some heartburn with this or they neutral you have any kind of ID on their position now of. Mr we never spoke of amended I'm sure they've seen and as amended. Of and so I did but I have not spoken do not know what their position might be but I did go with a higher number of the that they had sent us so that they charge thank you. We have anybody speak for against the bill. That may be your answer Senator Clark right there are center closed I am of the well I would just say in the department of corrections it would currently lowered from twenty five to twenty one but whatever that the should be in the future it would stay with they have no restrictions Clause are with that the and it will limit and our local jails and limited to thirty cents and I think it's FCC but could be have to say I don't know the whoever lives at any fees that they allowed to be charged the hotter those charges are and what that does not include a connection with I thank president good vote close for his bill was the will of committee. Motion to pass we have a second all favor say aye opposed graceless Senator bill is passed thank you Mr thank you committee vote on two Constitutional amendments we have S. J. R. fifteen Senator Clark whenever you're ready present your amendment. S. A. R. fifteen of is. Some more of to the of don't remember the number it seems like it was three but The other this is another amendment by which the legislature a code cells in the session I think the one of our representative you is better and also it was similar to something the Senator Davis has this one was Who comes into action if an emergency is continue of not just of emergency is called the vote remember correctly. That exceeds thirty days then. It calls. Calls for the calling of of a legislative session if an emergency exceed thirty days and I'll be happy to take any questions the question committee. I have one so it seems like this could either a be brought into Senator Davis is ideas your idea for bringing ourselves and we want to add kind of automatic thing that we called in if that happened I think I'd be good or be is maybe even you we can call our self in the session assuming that those criteria me would be able to do that the end I certainly and the other one I presented this well this one's automatic the others not but it does allow the legislature to call itself into session and which could be better than it be an automatic actually but anyway if no other option and. What what's that it's out there so I. But go ahead presented to thank you Senator. We have anybody more questions you by speak for against the amendment. Center as you know we're not voting on this so we will move on to your next amendment and I've got to mention earlier I know Senator Tucker if requested every constitutional amendment we have heard Maddy was kind enough to provide you a list so just wanna make sure you are aware that Senator Clark you're recognized for S. J. or sixteen this J. R. sixteen is will continue to be filed but we're removing it from consideration I'm not going to be running it I always I was asked to file this always thought that the bill of that was run by Senator Irvin did what needed to be done question why we would need an amendment and I'm not run in the men's. Okay Sir Senate we will pull that down as well. All right I believe that is all of your Senator Clark list or something I'm missing thank you Mr thank you members of the committee okay looks like we have just the people special order Senator Tucker you're not running your stay are you or do you want to run it. Okay. Okay Senator Johnson do you want to run SP five five three day pass over that. Okay. We can wait on that if we can I'd like to pass H. B. sixteen thirty seven Senator Bledsoe seizure most senior member you might come take a chair. H. B. sixteen thirty seven. Right you are recognized to present your bill this is the exact same bill I ran before for the executive order is just represented Vaught Bills identical figure we project run that get that through and have it in the law assuming that it passes the Senate with that I'll take any questions any questions from the committee. All right seeing none of these anyone in the audience want to speak for or against this bill. Seeing none heavy clothes for your bill I'll close not make a motion to pass I have a motion on the floor to have a second. I have a second all those in favor say aye our own those opposed. All right a excuse me just a minute let's see. I'm afraid your bill failed. Yes ma'am we make a motion to expunge both of which the Bill failed now running one more members present all right that's good. All those in agreement all right. Thank. Yes the motion. All right members and members of the audience and the people president Bill I sure to Senator Rapert I'd wait till he came back before you run the special order bills has not seen him and get the best thing to do is Thomas take a small recess seeping contact and see where he's at and we'll come back in either see we can start presenting the bills if it's up to his discretion or see if we need to do some other kind of actions I'll take a five minute recess. In speeding back in order. I thank the first bill we're going to heal it here is Senate bill four eighty six by Senator hammer Senate bill four eighty six the first one you want to hear out is for I believe staff will have some information handout as well. Senator Hammer whatever you're recognized ready thank you Mr just for the second time can I have a couple individuals that are going to help present go ahead and come to the table you may serve time you Mr and I'd like to call former representative Doug House and also Christie star to the table please. Per. You can please say your name and title for the record and then we'll let center and present his bill deafness happy to press the button on your. Search. Douglas House. What I need thank you have a title I'm deputy Attorney General to yes Sir Arkansas Attorney General. Christi star uninsured plus the cancellation recession and I'm here on personal business and I'm not on I'm on leave for the state. Yes Senator Rapert you're recognized Senator Bill. Thank you Mr forty six pretty straightforward person shall not enter or remain in the area within a hundred feet of the primary stir entrance to the building where voting is taking place except for person entering or leaving a building where voting is taking place for unlawful purposes this bill is intended or simply states a person shall not enter remain within the hundred foot area prevents groups of persons from setting up tables remain within a hundred feet of the polling site for unlawful purposes which could lead violation of ADA prevents voter intimidation within a hundred feet of the voter insurance basically keeps people of any danger from camping out within a hundred foot weather obviously we know that you can't do that if you burn assigned but we did have reports of individuals that were camping out within a hundred foot and we think that that ought to be a sacred zone and so we're asking to declare to sacred zone for lack of better terms and that's the whole intent of the bill Mr be glad to answer any questions so we have a question committee center recognized. Thank you Mr. I guess my question is this the way the bill is written. Says a person can be within a hundred feet. Unless they're there for lawful purposes so that's the exception so my question is if they're not there for lawful purposes is it not already against the law. And the thank you for the question Senator Tucker who joined because center Kerr center Tucker remember me it probably only if and Senator Clark okay. The the reason this word of the way it is and perhaps Reputable call represented house because once representive always represent my book representative house may be able to the light on this but say for example that is a polling site set up at a library and you're there for the purpose of doing business with the library we would want you to have the freedom to move in and out or you know states a church or any other type of polling sites so we want to make sure that that was a clearly identified as if somebody's there to do business such as a library they would be you know misclassified for lack of better term I don't know if if you would like either the other two witnesses to weigh in on that sure allows allowed to have anything to add to the questions. Thank you Mr chairman of coming or going you can't just go in there and stop similar rules in in union picketing you can pick it up and down the sidewalks loans continue to move that you can't just stop and block access so when a block access is we've seen of saw North Little Rock for instance it becomes an ADA and Americans with disabilities act violation people need to come and go in the right also people are setting up tables blocking entrance they can't be watched all the time but it appears that they were election hearing even though they were caring side that's prohibited. We tried to work during slow they if they're coming or going they got lawful business within that hundred feet that's fine. And I just wanna add that received multiple complaints during early voting multiple complaints on a daily basis and this is reported herein are commission meeting set this the state board as well and we had issues with people basically going up to people online within the hundred feet sound of course but outside a hundred feet so. An offering and mills once early Wednesday early voting. Now we know that's a huge issue. One day ago today coming get a mail they're giving mill tickets. We can't police that obviously with what's happened the past you know with the Hudson how in cases and their cases this kind of prevents that issue we also don't want voters harassed when they're online and these are these are campaigns right so that is kinda takes care of that issue because it doesn't really fall the election nearing so just as the table that was set up a polling sites now I you know I had the mayor of the Little Rock contact me and ask me you know we have people they're gonna be having food trucks are set up refreshment stations Porta potties and how do how do we kinda navigate that and said you know I saw that hunter fits them great just make sure you contact the polling stations in a seven that's private property just want to get their permission and where that says that outside a hundred foot sound and everybody was doing exactly that they were doing those things so there's a few science actually when I went early vote there is a table set up on the sidewalk next to the site next to the building within that basically that area that you I will chair might be trying to get three so not technically engineer and like an engineering electioneering so that's a that's a big issue so we we don't want to block that access we we don't want any bad actors. And so this kind of covers that so that I hope that answers your question. This one follows Mr Chrissy thank you I totally support what you're when you talk about watering blocking access harassment I mean I am in full support of that Mike my concern of the languages that is it's it is not specific to those things I understand you can't anticipate everything but. And as I'm I'm freezing this as a question because I want us want your feedback on it to me the way I read the bill it might prevent you know of a good faith volunteer from taking a bottle water to a poll worker or someone waiting in a long line or or something along those lines even a church if the point places at a church or churches on volunteers you know taking water people one and that kind of activity or other other innocent activity that I don't think you're trying to target could be covered by the bill given the way that it's written. It's it's coming and going for lawful purposes so and and the reason that we came to this conclusion because I I'm I'm reading the news just as you are Twitter there's and there's a narrative that's trying to be painted that's that's very false and we had issues and this is not is a prosecuting this is all of the state but we had issues with a candidate seating. Poll workers and I mean it sounds kind of funny but we literally had a candidate that took food to a polling site and this is a common issue that's going around and and multiple counties has been going on forever and and and surely you can see the infoprint why that's not appropriate and so this kind of covers the bases there this we're you have polling sites that are libraries you're going to have people that are coming in and out to get the library you're gonna have polling sites that are churches you have people that work in the searches you have people they're going to service and and of course we want people that can assist voters so we are not preventing anybody they're doing business that are assisting voters better you know bringing their children with them to go vote this is not change any of that is simply if you're doing your dated a business within that polling site if you're going in and out that polling site to do business if your election workers officials this is this covers that is simply just says we don't want anyone harassing voters in line that is occurring at these polling sites by offering them goods once they get out to at once they get out the vote or they're blocking access which is eighty eighty so that they can't get through which also you don't always recognize it that's an eighty eight issue because there may be other kind of anxiety type and ADA issues that may drive voters out and they do not vote so we don't want to discourage anyone from voting thank you. Members any other questions. Senate. Thank you I I can tell you down in my area honoring selection last time there's people who set up a. Real. ten all this stuff candidates who was elected officials on the other side who actually were cooking meals and bring it to people in line will within a hundred foot the in the line so I greatly appreciate you just clarifying language and I know this happened down there I can imagine all the different places happen across state do you agree. Yes Sir thank you thank you. All right centers no further questions for these witnesses. Seeing none I believe now we're to the against is that correct we got somebody Senate speak against this bill so if you would please exit force appreciate that. Sorry for my delay I was asked to run a two minute bill it to thirty plus so I think we've all been there before. sherry okay if I remain seated while three here Senate. Okay I thought we were on forty five forty six okay we got to folks there I'm okay as long as you are sure we need as it can merits seals and Laurie Evans if you're in the room. Is it I don't know if you're mis seals are ms eleven but I don't know where the other person is. Okay come on in the we have to take your testimony. If you would please state your name and who you represent for the record. I am can you hear me alright the great I'm Laurie Evans with indivisible Little Rock in central Arkansas. Should I what is what by the way indivisible what is indivisible we are a non partisan grassroots activist group and so we do two things mainly we register educate and mobilize voters to the polls and then we also do activism work holding elected officials accountable to those voters on based on values of inclusion and equity for. Okay that includes some to be honest about it I think that's I've seen your group inside some of our Senate offices before and cotton and signal by Senator Bozeman but I'm aware of some of your activism and some of it to is a little outside the norm but you're recognized to speak. Okay I'm not sure what that means but if ya if you have any other feedback on this issue we have transferred to for everybody involved thank you absolutely. So today okay I guess I'm sorry introduce myself we do have a sister chapters throughout northern Arkansas as well and we're and membership group of about two thousand members statewide we do oppose SB four eighty five. I am so sorry. we also oppose SB four eighty six Got a bunch of the State today we do believe that imposes unnecessary information infringements on individuals in twenty twenty we did see some long lines especially during early voting those lines and boating didn't go extremely smoothly despite the pandemic I myself regularly drove by the voting center near my house to keep tabs on the link the blinds on two hot sunny afternoons I saw youth volunteers passing out water bottles to voters standing in line. because the line curved around the square building all the voters in line or within one hundred feet of the a polling place so as to be forty five as was mentioned earlier would outlaw such pro active civic engagement by young people. I'm also consider out of those also mentioned that many polling places there other churches including my own point precinct this bill would prohibit church members I'm from nearing the poles underground stock or water refreshment OR any simple you know measure of trying this again most of the lines are often within the one hundred foot mark at the polling place. something else that I would like to mention is that of course that we all want voting to be convenient and comfortable I think and not anymore but burden that it has to be we had indivisible and our education work with voters have found that new and infrequent voters are often intimidated about what to expect at the polls particularly young people and often they don't wanna expressed that they don't want to show their ignorance about or their lack of knowledge about voting so what we were involved in a nonpartisan coalition led by urban league of Arkansas the coordinated some of the things that were mentioned for example food trucks music hospitality cards offering water and snacks to voters across central Arkansas pine bluff northwest Arkansas last October and November and the goal was just to celebrate democracy the activating civic engagement by our Kansans obviously a political and non partisan again committee of the simply are simple offering we I don't think that we indivisible with one of the tables that was referred to by commissioner star because our table was well out of the way of he was within one hundred feet but well out of the way of Of that the entrance not blocking anything because obviously we have highly competent election officials who were enforcing all of the laws I'm particularly with regard to election hearing already a legal within one hundred feet of the called in every election a publication I saw that boundary for electioneering was strictly in in for pick actively enforced by election officials as it absolutely sure should be I saw take measures out twice bye election officials who were ensuring that any of that activity was well outside the already the boundary that that are lost state so I is just the knowledge please the good work that our election officials are already doing to and for force our current laws we already have so many rules and regulations. At three eighty four eighty six just adds more regulations for unclear purposes infringes on an individual's freedom to simply be a good Samaritan. We do call this the no water bottles for voters bill it does criminalize an act of charity I hope you'll consider not piling more rules on top of what the good people of Arkansas can and cannot do for their fellas we respectfully ask for a no vote on SB forty six thank you. Senator Ballinger recognized question thank you Mr chairman. Do you mind pointing out in the bill what would prohibit somebody from from taking a water bottle and handing it somebody. Well minute a minute ago identified as no water bottles for voters bill. Now what is the bill do to stop that prohibits it from my understanding my reading of the bill from anyone from entering or leaving the polling area except for the purpose of voting or entering the purposes of the building commissioner star just mentioned that that poll that candidates were bringing meals just bringing bills like we might bring water bottles to poll workers and and said seem to infer that that would be made illegal by this bill so I think she listed off a whole bunch of potential problems but I don't know that she said specifically make the bills only a paragraph long basically I mean is it be should be easy to point out especially if that's what you're calling the bill it should be easy to point out like how is it does that so like because it yeah my my reading of it it's it's pretty basic pretty straightforward your as long as you're not sitting there and remaining there what you're doing is legal the first coming and going there's nothing in here that would prohibit that so delivers many water bottles as you want as long as you're not set up within a hundred foot so I and I would be confused about why it would be not acceptable for someone to deliver a meal within that when your feet but water bottles would be allowed I don't see how that's distinguished in that language so perhaps maybe it's in the I guess it's unclear convinced of feeling is a bit of confusion Bills not clear minutes literally it's it's three three happens long. It it you know it says here that is if you're you know as long as you're not you can lead you can come and go for lawful purposes so basically you're not allowed to set up there in and I think the main point they pointed out is that makes it where you're not impeding access you don't have the agreed all right so so I mean I I get that like like a lot of times we just **** heads to **** heads you know that you know Republicans are out there stopping people from voting and you know the Democrats wanted everybody to be able to vote and no matter what or whatever like sometimes we just **** heads but hence this bill just but basically said what you just said utopia okay with that if you can't set up can't sit there and and the and you can't come from all purposes which I I think Senator Tucker made a good point that that's already probably legal but if you're coming and going for lawful purposes you're allowed to come and go delivering water bottle person would be unlawful purpose setting up a stand for water bottles is nice is that may be but within a hundred feet would be prohibited the the one thing I also think it's important is you realize a hundred feet is a hundred feet from the entrance right of the building so it wraps around the building if you're more than a hundred feet from the entrance of the door you can set up your your your ice chest and hand out water bottles of charity one to do that. Right you don't see any of those honestly I would I would you know I'm not alone on an attorney but I did speak with an attorney about this bill and they work in concern because we do this work they were concerned that it would broadly include any kind of the of the charitable acts a political charitable acts that we would like to be involved in it's just that it was unclear that's that's the best answer I can give it just a little damages to doing that but I honestly from my standpoint it would help your credibility if if we kept it to the language that the bill actually did I would love it if it would if the bill clearly protected acts of charity like like we would like to be involved and I know that I'm not monopolizing but it's really short and I just read. I have no problem with that at all that I have senator garner okay so you know it's of the person shall not enter or remain in a name in an area within one hundred feet this is like that's the whole bill like underlying language or any language within a hundred feet of a primary primary exterior entrance to a building which is the the no election hearings on that we have today right we're voting is taking place except for a person entering and leaving the building we're voting is taking place for lawful purpose as long as you're not doing something illegal you're you're allowed you're you're not paying because you know it is private property can out there for voting maybe the private property owner would say no all right if it's if it's all right to whatever the appropriate anyway so as not breaking the law and you're going to deliver water that's not a unlawful purpose. I would say. The again that is not to me that's not clearly protected and was not clearly protected by with the attorney that I spoke with whether or not that just coming in with you're not leaving the building you're not going into the building and leaving the building which is what is specified and additionally I am not sure that Y. it should also be illegal for someone to bring a food cart you know small food cart with stacks and perhaps they might find themselves remaining in the area for ten or fifteen minutes or even the day if they so choose it is so the adventure opposition the bill that you want to be able to have all small that's great but you should call it the no food cart bill instead of a no water for both. Senator garner you're recognized thank you just look at the your Twitter and your non parts in a political so you shared a video I didn't say a political you shared a video nonpartisan means a political a political for voter registration and active that's on point ma'am so you're sure to video supporting center R. Elliott's campaign you supported youths tweeted out going after this congressman French Hill we see Russian it there's some Joe Biden positive post so as multiple campaigning related activities on your Twitter I think that's the game that we're playing here you'll sit here and say you're nonpartisan you'll sit here and say you're in a political group you'll say this kind of thing but the reality is only those polls you're using this non partisan status to go in campaign. And I will just quickly say we have two buckets of activities they are separated we have activism and we have a voter education. Let me ask you the senator no man when you're asked me a question I'm sorry about that okay you're probably right you're right you're right so I would just like to respond only that if you're involved with the church for example and you go out with your church committee to help with the food or to help the homeless you're not necessarily there to proselytize are you you're there to provide a community service and that's what we do with regard to voters senator garner you have anything for thank you I was trying to respect the process whenever this point of order. I think that's the reality of this that we understand is that there or partisan campaigning activities happening under the guise of being non partisan activities the size of these drinks and things are being handed out to people or talking to people online you can say that didn't happen I had multiple campaign workers who saw that happen multiple times we try to reported and we were told there is no law that can coverage this gives the people on the ground the ability to regulate control that which is and it's a big problem you mentioned pine bluff I cover Pam Love Iran election I saw would organizations did there that we're. Very suspect as a non partisan group. All right thank you senator Bledsoe recognized. Thank you Mr chair I just wanted to ask you when you're delivering the water. And you are thinking about handing out food are you wearing your T. sure we are wearing indivisible we where no other information that when it when it comes to voter registration and then actually activity of the pool and and Commission or star can speak to this because she did actually encounter us at the polling place and actually did her due diligence as the election officials did as well and poured over all of our documentation or materials to ensure that we work complying with the laws as we were the we had didn't even have our website out because we do not. I speak to folks about the issues or candidates races when we're out at the polls did your water bottle have the no ma'am they were and water and like to small market or something the reason that might seem tainted is because of maybe the things that you do when you are. Educating voters and that kind of thing so I would be may be made the next time you want to do something just to help people you might just wear a plain T. shirt or something like that so that people won't be they won't know that you are connected with a. A group that does to the other things that have just been mentioned but I think it's a good thing that you're handing out water if you just do it anonymously is thank you for your suggestion. All right members any other questions if not thank you for your testimony man with thank you. is there anyone else here that would like to speak on Senate bill four eighty six that has an already spoken. Seeing none senator Hammer you're recognized Sir if you like to close for the bill. Thank you Mr chairman I think is pointed out in testimony and then back and forth questioning yes it's illegal for election nearing to be done within the hundred foot but what we are doing is defining situations that have been given and testimony that may not appear to be election hearing but in reality have introduced doubt into the process so really the intent the bills to bring clarity that we want that hundred foot zone to be a sacred somewhere people once they're in it are not inhibited intimidated or directed in any other way so I mean bill stands on the merits as written appreciate a good vote thank you senator Hammer. Are you can have a discussion on the motion and is there a motion for the bill. I have a motion to pastor Senator Ballinger second for Senator Bledsoe discussion on the motion. Senator Tucker thank you Mr I just want to respond to some of the questions raised by Senator Ballenger for the record I mean the type of harassment and and blocking that we're talking about stopping with this bill I support that I don't think the bill is as clear as respectfully as you discern I just want to point out why saying that the bill says a person shall not enter or remain in an area within one hundred feet of the primary experience to a building. The only exception is for entering or leaving there is no exception for remaining. So I think in a it would be if I were a lawyer arguing this in court I think you could argue that even a poll worker who's remaining is in violation of this section because there's no exception for remaining there's only an exception for entering or leaving a if you could argue that a voter is invalid if there's a long line. They're waiting in a hundred foot zone for a long period of time they remaining there in violation of this section because the only exception is for entering or leaving for lawful purposes so. My problem is not with the intent of the bill which I think is valid my problem is is with the the way the bill is written not only are you picking up volunteers who are good faith the little waterfalls I think it goes arguably beyond that in the even poll workers and voters parents bringing their kids which I do every election cycle could potentially arguably be in violation of this section so that's that's my read of the bill. Thank you Mr all right Senator Ballinger. Thank you Mr so there's action in the law they're not on the Interpol to lead to certain consequences right. The the code is is complete with with requirements for election workers with requirements for access to poles and all those so there's all these other specific code sections the provide opportunities for people to be at the at the location in line working whatever there's no way that a court would interpret this to say that the that are you know you know you're not allowed to be there to vote because this code section so that I'm sorry I think that it's for my standpoint I can't imagine that they're petition be anything besides for somebody has consented camping at in in the location that's not going not coming and carrying out some purpose that is approved at by the law and some others so yeah I I just I mean I I I get what you're saying but I I would have a hard time ever seeing it actually be interpreted that way. All right members any other. It is very quick Mr chairman I would just say. That may be true but I would rather put in the bill so it's clear on the front an. All right members we've had discussion we've got a motion to pass with the second all those in favor say aye opposed no. Bill passes and Senator Hammer I believe if you want to take up Senate bill four eight seven actions that correct. Yes Sir Mr and you mind if I get my to folks back up to the table please I'll be happy for you to do so Sir. Mr house Mr going to help the presentation under center speak for begin help the presentation okay yes Sir I don't live chair. You know asset they. Keep it to the bill and then they can testify after four against if it chair last adjournment thank you Senate bill forty seven. the duties under seven dash five one one the County Board of election commissioners shall establish precinct boundaries polling sites alter existing boundaries of those centers to the council board of election commissioners moves establishment and alteration of vote centers from the county Clerk to the County Board of election commissioners as both centers are election day polling sites that Thursday does is secure the connection which requires a secure connection to prevent unauthorized access to the voter registration database pull books machines at the vote centers Mr pope you're allowed let my to individuals comment was placed in the imagine you already introduced yourselves right for the record earlier and we're got these bills all back to back so I'm not required again if you will proceed. Okay so this to me is pretty a pretty simple bill and and I will say that a little bit background this bill is actually part of the original bill and that did that that center built back in twenty thirteen and it's that Senate bill to me is a it's a great deal so I am a little confused about the so the opposition on this bill so this is basically clean up because I don't know if you're aware of that for polling site establishment that is the County Board of election commissioners that is part of our duties within the code is that we establish polling sites voting vote Senator is an actual polling site it is a lection day polling site it's a basically a conglomeration of polling sites so in a vote Senator it has all the polling sites within one location so instead of where you have to go it is at one certain location to vote you go to vote Senator on election day doesn't matter where you reside in that county and you can vote so what this does is just basically claims that that language and puts it to the County Board of election commissioners to establish that vote Senator because again we establish all polling sites not the county Clerk so what that's what the cleanup languages into the secure connection again it just that's already in the code is cleaning up that language to you know add an electronic poll books because it's pretty much the standard now especially if you're into that center because electronic poll books are used in and just making sure that we have those established so that's all this is there's there's No intent at what I was going through looking at this I saw that was that I'm an issue because it had that county Clerk or County Board of election commissioners and again we establish a polling site. Thank you. And I think representative house has a an example of an issue that came up and Faulkner County. Mr chairman centers there was some confusion between the. The county Clerk and the Election Commission about location of polling sites that eventually worked it out but when we took a look at the statute we said County court or Election Commission so that the disparity there's going to be those two folks in most every county and so that need to be cleaned up of course let the voter registration rolls is something that's going way County pulled or election poll books is the coming thing like trying to pull the so it's basically just playing a bill I don't see anything controversial that right thank you Sir anything else senator Hammer on this particular bill for your presentation no Sir I think it's been clarified thank you all right members you have any questions before we take those speaking against the bill Senator Tucker. Thank you Mr I understand larger counties at the County Board of election commissioners has their own staff to help. Seven point places and building centers and all that sort of thing but in the end smaller more rural counties the County Board of election commissioners depends on the county Clerk in the county Clerk staff to establish those would that still be possible under this bill. Yes no not under this bill but under different sections of law on a bill that you will be saying the board of election commissioners and forty five counties. Delegates to the county clerk's the authority to do all of these things and much more that's going to continue that's going to stay the same where the county Clerk to run in the elections and there's no problems. There are no problems the board of election commissions though cannot delegate responsibility I can delegate authority but they always remain responsible at law and can be said so this just makes it sure that the responsibility states were exposed to stay. I would like to add that currently whether by the county clerks are doing that responsibility it's still lies with the county were Election commissioners as an administration elections even though the County clerk's maybe doing the responsibilities. One point representative house that you've mentioned that we would be saying another bill and I guess my question is is everything that you said true regardless of what happens with the other piece of legislation that and we're gonna see with regard this bill yes okay. Thank you. Right any other questions for Senator hammer and presenters. Seeing no questions actually don't have anyone that is signed up to speak against Senate bill forty seven if there is any in the room please make shelf no. Senator Hammer is there anything else that you've got appreciate a good vote all right closed members what's your pleasure. I have a motion to pastor senator garner second from senator Bledsoe always favor say aye. I'm sorry. The brother we're already into it Hammer ruled that it is passed it you you're welcome you need to speak up sooner Senator I've I've always been fair to to to state something but I'm in that when I'm in the middle of a motion of people voting that's not the time to ask you can comment so. Well that was on that issue I want to hit allow allow that so I took the motion and was taking the vote Well if you've got if you got discussion you could you could stated that but in the middle of the vote if there's nothing more for you to do so I want to stay with where I was at a took the vote the bill passes will move on to the next one and raise your G. action or if you have a point of order whatever you have very soon so that I can hear and see that I've always been fair that Senator Tucker next bill Senate bill forty eight. Thank you Mr chair of this deals with the freemen information act and just disclaimer the bill in its original form did go before the FY Committee but we amended it because we detected something that did not go back before the FY Committee so I want that for the public record just to know Mr for could I will get representative house to explain the bill thank you be safe for the second time that'd be great. Senator James chairman and centers. There so there was some confusion dichotomy between the AFL while law hello I am a law freedom of information act that I think we're all pretty jealous about but it looked like under the freedom of information act people had access to ballots that had not yet been cleared as quote legal ballots are illegal ballots to determine whether they should be counted or ballots that were awaiting that have been approved and we're good ballots that were approved to be tabulated and people coming in and demanding to see these when we looked at the statute it was a little unclear there's a little wiggle room I believe you was it you that took it to the F. away task force Senator Hammer did I'm sorry and they liked it but it gives a thirty day breeding period that allows the boats to be process if there's an election contest that occur after certification about that gives time for the courts to Salem the end that regard the statue to little bit redundant but it make sure that nobody can mess with the ballots in to laws accounting and legal proceedings are done. Thank you questions. Senator. Thank you Mr the concerned with and I I'm not an expert on this issue. The concern was brought to my attention is that. Canada has to make follow Alexion contest with either fifteen within fifteen or twenty days after the election and so essentially this bill would make some what would force that candidates to file the election contest on a hunch without having access to the information is that true it's true. It's actually true the one election contest that we experienced in November that was absolutely true. Okay thank you. Senators any other questions for senator Hammer. In. Your questions seeing none you have anything else on this bill senator Jerry but signed up to speak for against Mr I'm not looking at that and I don't see anybody signed up to speak against and you've got the only for sure to table presenting with you are a Mr what I'm saying closing is this is intended to protect the integrity of the ballot in order to just have the process work its way through before anybody has access to them which I think is an important thing for us to protect the integrity of the ballot until the time frame is cleared and with that I'd appreciate a good vote. All right what's the pleasure of the Committee. Motion to pastor Senator Bledsoe second from Senator Ballenger you have any discussions and Tucker. Okay we'll make sure that. all those very of the bill say aye opposed no. Bill passes and I think that takes us to the last one for you senator Hammer from not mistaken I believe there's amendment I will make sure that your perspective that everything's good with this amendment out of Matt may I have a moment. May I have just one second please yes Sir okay thank you. Members you get the of. Amendment before you. Unless there's any objection to this amendment. what we. When the doctor and then we'll hear the bill as amended. Senator do you have an objection all you cool this this amendment a bigger word good with this amendment I'm good with the smell right. Members we have a motion on this one or do you need time on this. Okay I've got a motion to adopt the amendment Senator Ballenger second from senator garner all those in favor say aye opposed no amendment is adopted you're recognized presentation of the bill. Thank you Mr chairman. I think also the committee has been handed out per share some handouts that we requested those been distributed they would show laying here are these are are you talking about the motion and also is this an existing email it is in the mail from the bureau okay okay thank you looks like at least I have them Senator okay. Our. So I had to be pull some information I'd like to cite from it it's going to be members the email that has Elizabeth's name at the top and this was done at my request to kind of give us a snapshot of where we are round the nation as far as when it comes to early voting this information is requested and obtained from the national conference of state legislatures which I think everybody understands the integrity of that group regarding early voting. Currently forty three states and the district of Columbia offer some form a pre election day in person voting options either early voting or in person absentee voting dropping off of an absentee ballot in person this includes five stage with all mail in voting Delaware has enacted early voting which began in twenty twenty to six states do not offer any pre election day in person voting options those are Kentucky Connecticut Mississippi Missouri New Hampshire and South Carolina. And according to NCSL early voting periods range from four days to forty fives with the average length of being nineteen days in addition the date on which early voting begins may be early as forty five days before the election as late as Friday before the election and the average starting time for early voting is twenty two days before the election you'll see on the table below shows wind early in in person absentee voting begins in the end of each state that currently utilizes each voting or in person absentee voting plus Delaware and with regards to Monday Also last and she responded I know you are particularly interested in the Monday before election day the Texan red or partially got black and white copies in text in red indicates a state that like Arkansas allows early voting on the day before the election of the forty three states allow early in person absentee voting twenty four allow early voting until the day before the election which you can do the math and see how many do not and when you look at the stage of with early voting you'll see that it's all over the place as far as who does what including some even have the authority delegated to the local level to make that determination some even do it on Sunday several seven days before the election you can just read down I will consult your intelligence but you can see that it's all over the place what I did was I also had the bureau pulled statistical numbers and I'm going to pick up the one that shows absentee votes cast in the presidential election because the amendment deal specifically with absent T. and is broken down by county comparing the two the one thing I think you'll notice again the numbers are all over the place but you'll notice that with regards to the increase an absentee votes that from two thousand sixteen to two thousand twenty absentee vote actually increased part of the reason for the amendment and I'll talk to what the amendment did in just a second as far as the absentee vote of course we know that twenty twenty was kind of an anomaly with the you know COVID situation and so we know is kind of an unusual year but you know just here to the ground I think that may become a trend because people found the early election or absentee voting is is the way to go for many people because of the simplicity of it you'll notice on the another hand out that I had prepared for you is the Monday before election day early vote counts and you'll notice that those numbers. Are also all over the place when you go down county by county fair now some counties had increased some counties had decreased but when you flip over the back page you'll see that from two thousand sixteen to two thousand twenty Monday before election day the numbers thank knowledge did increase although some counties did decrease what also want to point out to you is is that when you take a look at the twenty twenty votes that were cast in the presidential election the twenty sixteen votes that counted in the presidential election you look at those you'll see that the numbers also are all over the place the one thing that I want to point out though is this that and I don't think you have the benefit of the sheet presented in this manner but I'll be glad to pass around so you can see I'm not just pull this out of the air when you take a look at the numbers by day of each one of the votes cast by council the Saturdays before Monday the boats are typically lower now the time frames on Saturday are shorter but one of the things I'd like to point out with regards to just can the of polling sites handle it if we were to take out Monday voting and spread it across the remaining twelve days there's plenty of breathing room within the other twelve days to be able to do away with Monday voting and not disenfranchise anybody's vote or do anything in the way of voter suppression which I'm sure you probably hear testimony about this is not about voter suppression this is about making sure that the process has the highest level of integrity to make sure that every vote counts including a hire an increasing number of absentee votes to that point Mister chair I'd like to show The Amendment and what the amendment is intended to do. First of all the cut off time for anyone to pick up an absentee ballot is going to be Thursday at five o'clock that would be for a person's administrators and bears so if you're an individual you will pick it up you have picked up a five o'clock Thursday if you're an administrator who might be collecting say from a nursing home you would be able to pick it up or say somebody that has an emergency situation or bear the cut off time the cut off time to return the absentee ballot would be for persons at Friday it will be at Friday at five o'clock for bears and for persons and and then on election day in this did not change authorized agents for medical emergencies would remain at one thirty on election day so if for example almost a grandpa because I'm grandpa grandpa intends to go vote on Monday or Tuesday and falls and breaks his hip the administrator could still or the authorized agent could still have time to get it and return it As far as a. All an absentee ballot show things that the other thing that is critical that the amendment does the absentee ballot has to be taken to the clerk's office recently there was an interview that was done with regards to an individual that worked on the election up in Madison Wisconsin and one of the things that they did up there and although is as prevalent down here no but I think there may be testimonies as to this particular situation regardless what we're trying to do is get ahead of some things where they did what we call democracy in the park and they set up tents in this set up unattended boxes where people could drop off their absentee ballot in the boxes that were unattended we want to bring clarity to the fact that if you're going to get absentee ballot we expect you to return it to the clerk's office and protect the integrity of that ballot all the way through the process and so that's one thing that is in the amendment as well I think that pretty well explains the amendment the the one thing I want to point out and then I know there's gonna be a lot of discussion testimony so and I'd like to give of the two individuals my ride the one thing I want to point out is that when you look at the total number of votes that were cast on Monday this last time around it was fifty seven thousand four hundred forty six that were cast on Monday but when you do a trend across the across the chart and I'll be glad passes around when you do a trend across the chart you'll find that regarding the vote count on Saturday in the other ones there's plenty of breathing room in those other twelve days to gain those forty spots for those for fifty seven thousand the other thing I want to point out is one of the low you know what one of the lowest days for people to vote in this election day so from Monday to Tuesday if you don't vote on Monday you've got to stay I would just say this to kind of set the tone for a conversation of voting voting early voting is a privilege voting is a right what we want to make sure is that the process in the integrity all the way along the line is there the other thing I would also say is this is a growing fact that the number of people that work within our polls are aging population is getting more difficult or like volunteer firemen or anybody else's volunteer it's getting difficult to get them there dedicated hardworking individuals they're there because they want to be. But the reality is across the spectrum volunteerism is declining and so I think we need to be realistic of what we expected them of the other thing I would say is this when it when it comes down to having that Monday it is also a day when the clerks or whoever's in charge of the election would have that extra time to cure those ballots you can begin to cure the ballot I believe it's on and I can be corrected the Tuesday before the election but by having Monday off if there is a high number of absentee ballots which we have seen evidence that double from last time I don't expect that trend to go down much it may go up actually it allows that uninhibited day on Monday for any ballots that need to be cured which would in reality eliminate or reduce the number provisional switch you'll see on the handout sheet in Pulaski County alone the number provisional was rather high what this will do is allow that time in the process to make sure before we go in election day that we've got as peer processes possible the other thing I might say about the Monday as well is it gives our time to give us time for the voting machines to be moved out and the other things that have to be done in order to make sure that they're done on a timely basis so that are individuals are not out till one two o'clock in the morning and what happens if you have an accident what happens to the machine goes down we have not allowed any time in the process to cover for the potential we wanna make sure every vote is treated with integrity and with that Mr if I make I yield to the folks to the right to add comments case I left anything out sure. Strauss Mr do you have anything to add. Mr chairman centers that is not much legal stuff involved in this its policy decision I can only add two things talking with the staff and in my county of four hundred and something ballot styles all those ballots have to be printed and delivered to the polling site on Monday night it's to it being a poll worker this last cycle some people working to three o'clock in the morning to get this done it now that I are one ACT C. elderly people and that's pretty tough on us so I'm glad that this is come to the attention the Clarks also have a lot of uh they're supposed to collect all the absentee ballots and Get a numerical order our precinct order given listed again in the proper order for they delivered to the election committee county election committees and to try to do that on a Saturday with conducting early voting and then Sunday and Monday it's it's from what we're hearing from most the Clerk says. Having a specific cut off for absentee ballots on Thursday will help them get what they've got process through if you're going to show up to get an absentee ballot on Friday you can vote in person right there on the spot and rather than doing that state if it's a bear situation then that's that work out just fine I'll leave the rest to start. Thank you. I want to say that this is this is not this is a bipartisan issue you know and back in two thousand seven a democratic legislator tried to pass this. And you know county clerks for for well over a decade at second decade and a half I've been trying to get this passed. Back in twenty thirteen the ACCA which is a democratic led organization because at that time commissioners were two Democrats and one Republican. We're going to run this is our legislative package. And because it was not a politically possible you know as a political and. What's the word I'm looking for. Yeah it's not the political thing to do administratively was the best thing to do. And sometimes you got to balance those two things right you know. Because you got to get the message out there of what what's what's gonna be best for the voters in the long run because at the end of the day why do people vote on Monday. Let's be honest why do people vote on Monday. Procrastination. It's procrastination. We we argue a lot about You know opportunity time periods and people at work and I and I know this I thank more than a lot of people you know I was the head of an I was a voter registrar basically for plastic county for four years. I did seventeen elections. And I read the early voting site down at the Election Commission. At a train sixty five workers. And I'll tell you and we and we and all the different than the ten sites we had around the county. Read the phones all of it and I will tell you that the reason that we have the lines it will it was the people what we're leaving work we're only open till five they were that is not like they were available they were not off work and because the other times or more convenient it was after work you know to six PM election day till seven thirty PM Saturday no one shows up. And my my question is why is that. Unlike a voter education people just don't realize that the salaries are available downtown location first couple days. Lines out the door. Next week nothing I when voted the second week took me five minutes. The selection. It's this is a bipartisan issue I don't know why they're there is half the clerks are against this this year. One of the pass it's it's been a push when I when I became Election Commission policy council SO what is one thing that you would love more than anything else. Elemental early voting on Monday. Number one issue. And I'm pretty sure that was a recorded conversation. Because at the end of the day this becomes a logistical issue. How do you do all these tasks and and and this and this is in Pulaski County has a lot of people we have a lot of staff we have eight or nine hundred poll workers yes I have a hundred eighteen polling sites twelve early vote sites. But when you look at that and you look at the fact that you have to go from twelve early both sides to hundred eighteen polling sites the very next day. But you also have absentee ballots coming in you look on the Clerk side of it in especially for those counties or the county clerk's are doing both pieces imagine the fact that they're trying to get all the absentees and. On the day before they're also having to do the early voting piece on the day before and they got to get ready for election day now go to your newspaper and you look on election day look at all the issues that come up on election day can you think of election or there's not a major issue. And can you think of anything in your county where the polling site wasn't open people are standing outside or they didn't have ballots they didn't have not provisionals they didn't have certain materials they didn't have so you know it to whatever the issue is all of the a lot of those things can be prevented if we simply just a lot of time but I tell you the reason this struck a huge chord with me on election day I took off and I went all the poll I went to several polling sites a lot of that centers and I had lots of people come up to me a lot of a lot the election judges and they told me. Please don't do this again. I can't do this again I've been working thirty years volunteering in if if you if you do not if you do not do something give us a break in between these I'm not coming back. So this isn't about. Myself this isn't about the commissioners isn't about the county Clerk is about the poll workers we have got to provide some type of break because when their work in all day on the early voting period and they're not leave until eight nine ten o'clock at night and they're coming back at five thirty the next morning. And then staying there till incredible amount of time ten eleven PM that's just we can't **** we can't keep asking this the people we can simply. Educator voters to let them know that Saturdays are open. Saturdays are open. I mean why not expand Saturday I don't know why anyone has asked for that. Morally up intended for. But let's do that. But let's let's make sure that people know that they have two weeks of early voting. Let's get that mandate time to process these things let's try to stop all these all the mistakes that were happening happening gives us time to in center back in the process and and and there's also another bonus. I don't know if you realize this but there's a lot of people they could turn away. They wait to transfer their voter registration. I don't know if you realize is that if you do not move your county to county registration within four days that election day your vote doesn't count. And while yes your actual voter register in class and Faulkner County if you don't do the Friday before and you can devote provisionally that the potus account. So a lot of people wait on a Monday thinking if I do it on Monday early voting a work doesn't. Maybe we could catch a few of those that they do on a Friday instead. Thank you. All right. Anything further on presentation the bill I think may be speaking for the bill anything further on it senator Hammer ready to take questions Sir all right we'll take questions Fauria and then we have some folks who signed up to speak against the bill Senator Tucker you're recognized Sir. Thank you Sir thank you Mister chair. I was anxious to hear the rationale for the bill and I heard a lot about. The administrative burden of having early voting on Monday and I understand that point. Senator also heard you make reference to making sure that the elections have integrity and every vote has integrity. And I didn't hear any any further explanation on that and is there some concern or accusation that votes cast an early voting on Monday. I don't have integrity or there are some questions about the validity of ballots cast an early voting on Monday or is it just the administrative burden. On the poll workers and the staff. Your question but I just want to know whether or not we give a personal example or not okay. My question is. you Mr and RepresentativeHouse explained an administrative burden on poll workers and staff of having early voting on Monday and I understand. But I also heard senator Hammer we make reference to passing this bill to ensure that all votes have integrity of course I also fully suppressive fully support that notion my question is whether there's any concern or accusation that early votes cast on Monday the day before election day don't have integrity or are somehow invalid or if. Maybe that has to do with the absentee portion of the bill senator Hammer my question is just on the Monday day before election day that day of early voting is it just the administrative burden that's the rationale for removing that day from early voting or is there also some concern that. The day before election day that Monday wax integrity or votes cast are not valid and someone. Absentee ballots that arrive on Monday. And maybe even after Monday were filtering in from the clerk's office where there should be re state we're filtering in days after the election day when they should be tabulated personally saw that. Ballots that are cast. early voting at the polls sites I don't think there's any significant problem with the actual vote to be counted because it's all elect it's not all electronic most counties or electronic Pulaski County still uses some paper ballots the paper ballots getting transmitted from various sites into the polling center into the election committee came set Election Commission to be tabulated races the same problems with paper ballots that have been known in Arkansas since recorded history of you've got to physically transport them and you know when we've all heard the stories about you know finding them and addicts and things like that and people go to the wrong place sometimes to deliver the ballots to the clerk's office should be developed to the Election Commission so it is there some problems we don't hold it usually comes up but we do know that the absentee ballots that were received late did not make it to the Election Commission until late that quit the question does integrity those ballots absolutely. the biggest problem to speak you know several days and a couple of weeks even after the election they found a voting machine left out here one of the churches that's that's a time problem because state nobody intentionally left it there but they didn't bring it in so these kind of things do happen nobody's saying every elections going to be perfect but. If you're pressing people real hard to do stuff things like that come up and it certainly questions the integrity of the election itself maybe not a specific ballot in some instances I hope that answers your question I have I guess one quick example an R.. Items being left at the polling sites I think just due to pure exhaustion and provisionals we had provisionals led to the polling sites that were you know found a couple days later so I think that's a good example of issues dealing with exhaustion. So would that that would as you mentioned I'm I have the number not exactly I think you said a hundred eighteen point sites on election day in Pulaski County. So it is what you're saying that. Enter an art class he County this cycle in twenty twenty we had for early voting centers available the date on the date the day before election day on Monday is that also correct. We we went from ten to twelve early voting sites to from ten to twelve on the Monday on the Monday we normally have one. Okay but yes I I did understand previously was just one but they were twelve early voting sites not just throw in the early voting period the day before the election and I. Okay so twelve as opposed to a hundred eighteen so what you're testifying is that the the burden and the mistakes. Our our our the exclusive to that Monday or they carry over to that Tuesday when you also have a hundred eighteen polling places. They're they're being carried over because the workers are exhausted. It is made by workers also many election staff because you're working on stall. Does that is that my question is does that also apply to Tuesday election day when the polls are open for twelve hours and there's a hundred eighteen polling sites will. Yes and it's more than twelve hours. Thank you you're welcome. Members any other questions for the senator Hammer senator Davison senator garner. Thank you I mean it might not be a question may be more common is that okay. Your choice if you want to forming a question or hold for discussion okay what and I know that we've had one conversation about this bill and I am uncomfortable with that I think people are used to Monday early voting and and I think you know the Saturday early voting situation isn't just about and not knowing or and procrastination but and like a lot of us that have kids and have tournaments for activities going on like Saturday is never a day I'll be able to get that and so I think and I think that's part of it to you like the convenience and and and people saying oh I've got one day left early voting before I have to go to a polling place and wait a longer line possibly and so I do think it's something that I have found that and voters really why can you see that by the sheer number of people that do that on Mondays before election day and so and and and also I say this only includes M. primary and general elections and that doesn't include special elections they will we allow and early voting on a Monday for special elections but not at general or primary and then how confusing is that is to voters so I just. I hate to see Monday early voting go away and and so I just wanted to share that ensure that it you know there are other reasons maybe that people don't or won't ever gathered on the Saturday but they will continue to vote on Mondays before elections and it is the convenience factor a little bit too and so I just wanted to share that and before we take that thank you. Senator garner you're recognized Sir. Thank you. I think it's. The examples that show that with very very real and I can understand it. Very intimately for Pulaski County. The problem is in my district which is extremely rule I'm here in the exact opposite from my clerks they're saying that this is thanks a Cleveland County the third most voting day in this last election and in the primary was their most voting day in early voting they don't have the same pressures are amount of people that you do hear Pulaski County some of the bigger counties and they're all saying that this is a tool that they like to have in that it doesn't hurt them I think my issue with this is and that is not addressing the real problem that shall have absolutely agree but similar down to House center Johnson's bill is crafted to kind of tailor make that two larger counties all of which could be more of an issue I thank you statewide approach whenever it's not an issue in my district it is really was given Harvard about it even though I'd knowledge and understand what you're saying is true I can't imagine being there till two o'clock three o'clock in the morning that's how mistakes are made but in my area fortunately we don't have that issue and they said fine as a tool can you address that why we should be doing the statewide approach for something that seems to be more specifically her hurting and my may not find another solution I can be more tailor made to address the classic County central Arkansas problem. I would address that by saying one thing we want to do is not create confusion so if we were to create maybe exceptions based on individual counties that you know that would become I think confusing so I think we have to be consistent across the board Granted in some counties just as reflected on the numbers you know summer going up some or not to Senator Davis on the early voting in two thousand sixteen you had eighteen hundred fifty five and in twenty twenty it dropped down to fourteen seventy three and you know is it it is I think it's difficult to do a one size or or to do it you know where you are trying to fix a problem over here and it's not have thanked over there but I think that's one reason in response to question it it may be embraced one air but it may not be in another but I think we have to look at the overall picture to and I would also say this that if if you know that there are problems over here and say it's a sage congressional race for example or a senator's race you know you wanna make sure that your vote cast over here is protected in its integrity over here because because the best process is being used that be my response thank you Sir thank you. Or at any other questions Senator Tucker. Thank you Mr. So. Mr you raise a point we expanded Pulaski County from one point place there for election at twelve so the the counties though the County Board of election commissioners already exercise a large degree of control over that the scope of early voting on the Monday the day before the election is that true. Yes so is that potentially an answer to the administrative burden is is just allowing the County Board of election commissioners to exercise the power they already have to determine the the level of burden they're gonna have on that voting day I think I understand your question. Well. You could have as few as one you do need to have at least one understand that under the current under the current law but then you could have two or twelve or twenty five or whatever you want pending on the county. And that could. Impact the level of burden on on the staff of the poll workers and that sort of thing so is it possible that. The County Board of a couple of election commissioners have the authority already to help regulate the level of administrative burden that they have that on that voting day doesn't change the burden on the staff. No matter how many polling sites are a matter it doesn't change the rate on the staff. The staff is still working right what's occurring okay it doesn't change the burden on and the clerk's office it's working that early voting site as they're still working and it doesn't change the burden on the poll workers is working on that site I don't you know I can I can speak for the commission on what arches this is going to be on early voting one sites not enough but twelve sites are too many that was for social distancing purposes and you know the goal here is not to reduce early voting and it's it's that the the goal here is to simply provide a break between election day and the Monday of early voting and you ask the questions about the integrity fees nobody is really watching honestly was going on that Monday before. Everybody is doing other things and I think that's an issue. Now I understand that smaller counties and said you know everyone loves it yeah that's a great day to be doing things that in the day there's a lot of activities going on and nobody's really around. To do checks and balances and and that's an issue. So a lot of absentee activities are going on you know there's really nobody checked this process is that there's nobody to go back and check their polling sites to ensure that everything else is and if is ready so that's also another issue so I don't I don't know why we would spend so much effort to you know to you know like Superbowl and everybody would prepare for a Superbowl party and give themselves a day but no one would want to get the full day to prepare for at election day so we're not going to give ourselves one day in between early voting election day just to prepare and to me the biggest stay at the entire year is election day and we don't want to give ourselves a single day to prepare for it to me that just doesn't make sense just because it's a it's a popular day and I understand those arguments so you know roll back give another day of a different day but let us have this one day it's it's extremely important to have that day to prepare. Members any other questions started on Friday I mean just give us a day. Members any other questions. Seeing no questions we do have people signed up to speak against the bill You're welcome thank you for your testimony I have Three people signed up I have a commercial sales Laurie Evans in merry on demining is are you all present I know to it probably are. Okay state you can you can handle that was staff ma'am of it will take first I thank commercials is the one is not here. So we're gonna strike that name and Laurie Evans you're recognized ma'am you're the first on the list. And for all concerned please state your name and who you represent for the record and will take your comments and we do have bills that remain after the special order sure we're but be mindful of that. you're recognized miss Evans if you want to reset. Okay. I'm sorry. We'll have our female help you. Yeah. All right sorry about that. Okay I apologize for that if there's a nail or something we need to get somebody to look at. I am not okay we'll a splinter okay got it taken care of all right. Sorry about that thank you you're recognized me thank you Mr chairman centers thank you again for an opportunity to dress the committee to get date again I'm Laurie Evans with indivisible of little rock and central Arkansas and we do oppose SB four eighty five just real quick I mean we all know why early voting is important on it in person voting is of course the most fail safe secure manner of voting early in person voting either election day congestion leading to shorter lines and improved her poll worker performance thereby strengthening the integrity of our elections operations. Monday early voting has been available since early voting was established by act sixty eighty six to nineteen ninety five it's part of our state's legacy of expanding boating access over time counties have successfully found ways to make the turn around the early voting to election day work for twenty four years last The New equipment deployed in recent elections makes the turn around much easier the software does most of the set up and workers you know use them drives I believe as as described to me there's online on screen guides etcetera counties have sixth participation early voting has continued to increase with every election cycle as we've kind of been hearing about which reduces pressure on election day of course and of course gives election staff more flexibility is to spot and fix potential problems when that voting is spread out as has been spoken about by commissioner star early voting days in essence having plenty of a real early voting days enhances the integrity of our elections process and we feel that makes no sense to find a trend that's working for election officials so for example how popular is early voting I'm on that mud on the Monday on November second last year from the county's representative by the senators on this committee for example Benton County three thousand nine hundred sixty four voters voted on that early voting day Faulkner County was two thousand eight out two thousand eight hundred seventy four Jefferson County one thousand seventy two pope one thousand four hundred seventy two Pulaski eight thousand four hundred twenty six Washington County one thousand three hundred thirty two Union County six hundred eighty eight those are voters and then total that's ninety over nineteen thousand vote is voters in just your seven counties but then state wide fifty one thousand four hundred seventy nine. Our Kansans chose to vote on that Monday last November that's tens of thousands of voters across the state that are going to show up on the next Monday before an election swamping poll workers we're going to have to try to explain why they can't vote on that Monday that they've been voting on for decades and that's going to take staff time led away from virgin election work. We've heard about you know but the Saturday. But that's really that's as a senator Davis eloquently addressed that's for folks with flexibility a lot of folks we're not talking about folks who were able to be here today we're really talking about folks who have two or three jobs who have children who have families who really don't give them a lot of flexibility to be able to I choose just any day on which to vote so just wanted to mention that at when we were collecting this information about how many how many voters were voting on this state and I appreciate that you know senator garner you know you know he already knew the answers to this question so you don't have to take my word for this right you can go ask your own clerks county clerks because that with the six out of the seven counties that reach we reach out to for numbers the staff at the offices volunteered that this bill would be problematic for their counties because that money is such a large turnout today one staff member said simply it be bad for voters another step person at a small council said that they have a limited number voting machines available so by pushing more from voters from Monday to Tuesday which is probably much more likely to happen they're not going to come back and vote on Saturday after the Monday is already passed it's going to cost really long lines on election day for them so we went we suggest please go go ahead and go ask all of your counties county clerks because we do believe most of them are going to say that they do oppose this bill. let's see here let's just please give um a county clerk's credit for the hard work that they do to run early voting in the county's most of them do run at at the court the court houses especially in the rural counties let's give the election commissions a credit for or for their assistance and support our county clerks want their registrants to vote. Testifying for county Clerk share or yourself I am testifying. I am what I am saying is that we have done our research we don't manage voting but we have done our research and our research shows that the counties that we have spoken with support early voting I would like to see it continue on that Monday and that is why we're here today to ask you to vote no on SB four eighty five reason I ask that is there is another person few weeks ago that came in was bringing something from a person that was the county Clerk and that's to reach for questions I want to make sure that I'm testifying on behalf of myself as well as our two thousand members. It up indivisible all right members you have any questions for ms eleven. Seeing no questions we appreciate your testimony I appreciate the time thank you we have to other people signed up against and no other signed up for. M. Dominguez if you would please come and testify to. Be happy to have that and hopefully ms eleven to cure the chair for you there's no no more splinter. So. Hello hi you would please state your name and who you represent for the record yes my name's merry Dominguez and I am here and representation of Arkansas United. Thank you you're recognized. Okay well thank you all for and giving me this opportunity to speak on Senate bore Senate bill four eighty five and Arkansas United where a statewide immigrant resource center that exists to and help integrate our immigrant communities and to our American society to which they contribute so much to. And we help them from applying to citizenship to setting for the test then support and during for the first time casting the ballot and so we have been assisting law and exploders for the past decade and as an act and we are an active part of turning out the light and expo here in Arkansas I began with Arkansas United last year during the busiest election season that I have ever seen just because of COVID and absentee ballots and but I can personally attest that it was the most comprehensive and all encompassing experience I had when it came to getting people to come out to vote and my colleagues and I really did the groundwork of what which included countless hours of phone banking making sure people knew their polling locations translating a breaking down the ballot and nonpartisan get out the vote events and interpreting that goals so we truly did fill in the gaps and offer the action needed support for Alexa our live next community during elections and due to the language barrier access now paint of I think this picture of all the hard work and because taking away that one crucial Monday may not mean much to some and I completely understand and the Commission commissioner Christie's side of like the exhausted workers that it really does make a difference for our well you know my my next community and the working community takes of Arkansas and early voting is popular due to busy work schedules of course and leaving it for election day is not always a possibility for our community who generally work stricter long hours that and put your plants construction sites and I can also personally attest that my community does tend to vote last minute and like the commissioner said due to procrastination but I also like to highlight and we're. We come in and because of not having the confidence to go out to vote because due to not understanding the ballot or what's on the ballot and and like I said that's where my organization really and tells the caps and yes so Saturday Monday are huge days for us and Saturday. We I personally helped a couple just because like during the week everybody works and Saturdays only availability Monday again it's big big because it's kind of the last chance of course before election day and so like I was saying we identify and provide the extra support are lying next community needs when it comes to actually going out to vote and as a person who phone bank throughout this past general election season up until about fifteen minutes before polls closed on election day just to ensure that people voted I ask that you please do not take away Monday right before election day which is one of the busiest days an early voting and please vote no. And and then if you just to leave you with this and every citizen has a right to make their own voting plan and by reducing Monday voting and you are taking away that right away from our and US citizens thank you all right thank you for your testimony any questions for misdemeanors. Seeing them we appreciate your testimony thank you for being here is Karen rickets. You're recognized. If you would come and take a seat ma'am and whenever testimony. Please state your name for the record new you represent. My name is Karen reckons and I'm here representing myself a. Arkansas voter and a lifelong citizen I lived in brazen Arkansas Life I'm sorry I couldn't understand the last part of the race in Arkansas I've lived here my whole life wonderful thank you for being here you're recognized thank you. I just like to start at and say I have been of Arkansas voter for the last ten years the first time I voted was one of eighteen two thousand ten thousand Levin in Franklin County I'm sure us Senator Ballinger knows familiar with Charleson and Ozark from Charleston for some of those red I have not voted in Polk County but I lived in Polk County for six years while I attended Arkansas tech and when I moved to Pulaski County I'm with my voter registration here and I voted in. Three different precincts have moved around a lot but I'm voting to me is a right as a citizen and that also includes early voting because it's still voting. Let's see you know I've been listening to a lot of discussion this afternoon and I keep hearing integrity of the ballot which I think is even more important to say the integrity of the voter allowing enough time for people to make it to the polls to vote voting to me is the foundation of democracy and we all have busy lives raising kids working one or two jobs and even on the weekend when the weather's nice boating may not be you know at the top most of people's minds you know like for me I can't wait to vote like early voting in sometimes it rolls around my birthday and kind like to celebrate my birthday by voting but again you know we've talked about procrastination and I'm also procrastinator but it's having that extra Monday I think is important an election process What else Senator Hammer mentioned earlier example from Madison Wisconsin which images relevant to The Amendment but this is a little rock Arkansas and what happens in our communities is is different than and states up north and I don't think this is an issue if anything maybe you know writing a bill that supports the election commissions so they are better prepared leading up to the November election instead of just one single day you know we have months and months and months until November second two seven November so that might better help election commissions be better prepared for the number of people come in to vote as well as mentioned earlier Clause The poll workers or are elderly people who are retired maybe creating a bill that helps encourage younger people to get more involved at the polls so they have the VA's to stress and all the work for the people who are working in the most yeah I have done some phone banking and I have talked to people who are like oh my gosh I forgot to vote it's it's Monday I gotta go do that so I know there's a lot of people who you kind of happens last minute but I would hate to think that you know if this bill were to pass you know what steps are going to be in place to educate the public that early voting will be on Mondays and the people show up to polling places and realize isn't we can't go tomorrow and tomorrow I've got a doctor's appointment I can't make it and then they just give up so for me it's so vital that we have access to voting and voting resources voting education so those are things that will listen to these conversations and like if this were to pass you know what further steps would come play about to make sure everyone is informed. And there's also the possibility of sending time for counting ballots if there's if there's such a pressure for I'm maintains it all the bills put you know piling up maybe there's an extension on the counting of the ballots. Yeah I'm just taking notes I didn't know the early voting was and I started ninety five which is exciting. That's really how I vote and I can only speak for myself But you know and also maybe creating an election day as a holiday can help ensure people have access to the polls so that way you know if they can't take off or only it's for lunch break then there's a set twenty four hours or have on the polls are open till eight o'clock I think to allow access but you're listening to this Bill you know with my own eyes and ears and listen everybody it's nothing short of voter suppression and I don't think that is good for Arkansas You know I think. If anything you know on. Eighty ng N. making sure everyone has you know access is is better for everybody because the people who live in Arkansas. I'm from diverse backgrounds in different regions and they do have a voice and that is the foundation of this democracy not only in our state but this country and I would feel very sad and is a proud or cans and to have one last day to vote especially is the last day of early voting a lot of people Krasny they have kids I have my best friend has two kids and she's running around all the time so you know I think you'd be in the best interest of Arkansas families to have every day available for early early voting measure gets it interests me I was thinking here so what would you say if early voting was extended one week earlier but yet this day was taken to attend to the needs Nick and the situation that Mr testified to which was simply to allow the proper time to be able to prepare we've got the actual voting day so if you want more access to voting what would you say if we started early voting one week earlier but we still have that day. There is a possibility that is the solution or there's another idea of maybe facilitating you know another volunteers to Ryan the procedures of you know making checking ID's and such and then having another group there present so maybe it levy eight so much pressure from so many people and kind of deviated up a little bit so it's not all at once that that could be a possible solution for sure that we were kind except break right before the next election day but again that would have to make sure that everyone the public knows there isn't confusion to that and that's the key is to ensure everybody knows the ground rules and how how we can proceed so members any questions for measuring gauge see no further questions thank you very much you had testimony we appreciate you coming. is there anyone else that would like to speak for against. Seeing none senator Hammer. Or would you like to close the bill Sir. Yes Sir I'd like to close. One quick note here. So you know what the majority of people do in Arkansas twelve months a year. They make a mortgage payment on time. They make their doctors appointments on time. They make deadlines like tax day on time some even pay early but they know they've got a deadline. Some live by their kids fall schedules and they will not miss the game. And yet also by testimony one of the witnesses and I think brought out elsewhere. People procrastinate. It's really about what you make a priority. It's really about what means the most to you. It really means what is the most important thing that I want to do today. And you make decisions and you plan your life around it. Absentee voting is on the increase the number support that. Both groups is folk today against the bill. Brag about how good of a job they do educating people. So I don't know why if they're going to base the argument against it the people show up and be surprised why they couldn't make that part of their platform to be able to educate voters that Monday is a day that running give our volunteer staff we're give our clerks and we're to make sure the preparation time is there before what should be one of the biggest stage in this nation. We're not taking any right of way. That was the may statement that was made. I may be wrong on this but I'm ninety nine percent sure I'm right and I reserve the right to apologize if I'm wrong but I think it has been declared in law the voting is right. Early voting is a privilege. And we seen what the examples from a credible source says as far as what other states do with regards to early voting they all do things differently. One thing I want to point out. Is that the clerks. Have been invoked into the conversation but no Clark is here to speak against the bill. Going invoke somebody's name you are at least be here speak against it I would respect that as much as I would those that we speak for but they have chosen not to be here but their names have been invoked for their occupations have been invoked. Also one of the testimonies of was given said I can't wait to vote. I'm an early voter one thing I want to point out also and this is not on the graph that you have a choice on the one that I have prepared. When it comes to voting. Eight other days before Monday. Receive far more votes. Then Monday. One day which would have made Monday the tenth day on the par today only missed it by thirty nine votes being greater. The other two they came in less than early voting our Saturday but let's be honest Saturday also has fewer hours to vote so I think you have to put that into context of run a look at this as a fair situation. One thing also I'd like to say in closing is that this is been tried several times before. That's been acknowledged that this has been tried several times before. By both Republicans and by both Democrats. And although it's been tried before I think this is the right time to do it and if we do it now people have plenty time ahead and I really think at the end of the day if voting is that important to you and you make it an important you'll be there to cast your vote and with that Mr I appreciate a good vote all right. Members is there a motion on the bill. I have a motion do pass from senator Bledsoe in a second room Senator Ballinger. Is there any discussion on the motion. Thank you. We've been here a long time. In Hammer district. Makes clear that twenty twenty fifty seven thousand people in Arkansas voted on this day. The Monday the day before the election date that this bill would remove. I know what's going on with my microphone thank you during the battery Senator that. What Senator English want want you take Senator English is there somebody loan there. Senator Davis you aggression or English I don't think she's going to be here shall thank you senator Davis Mr that sounds great you sound much better like Senator Davis. Hopefully my points will be as well received as hers are. Don't push it. Fifty seven thousand people in Arkansas voted on that day and as Senator hammer also pointed out that's up from over forty thousand people in two thousand sixteen so fifty seven thousand Arkansans made use of voting on that day the Monday the day before the election day. Now I would never presume to say the reason why fifty seven thousand people voted that day I would not presume McCollum all procrastinator some of them may be. I received an email from a constituent who told me that in twenty twenty that day was the only day she could vote. I don't know. What was going on with the other fifty seven thousand four hundred forty five people but I know that one person would not have been able to vote in person in the twenty twenty election if she could not voted that day. And we need to be making it easier for people to vote not harder for people to vote and I have the utmost respect for the administrative burden placed on the staff and the volunteers. But this is important war and it takes hard work to do. And that's the case for a lot of aspects of our society but there's nothing more sacred in our country that voting then voting and just because it may be hard doesn't mean we should take away people's opportunity to vote on that particular day I I have not heard from a single county Clerk in favor of this bill there may be some out there I have heard from a number who are opposed to it I've heard from some election commissioners who are opposed to it and just for the record if a Democrat for sponsoring this bill I would be opposed to it all the same because at the underlying point is we need to be making it easier for people to vote in and I don't know the reasons why they voted that day but I do know fifty seven thousand Arkansans voted on that day in twenty twenty and we need to honor their right to vote on that day so I appreciate a note on this bill. Senator garner thank you out for a walk in here her testimony was fairly strongly against this bill but listen to Senator Hammer man I trust and have the most respect for discusses case. I think I might have been swayed. We already prevent people from voting on certain days before the election on Sundays before we have restrictions of two weeks and some have forty five and some have even longer some states have very little early voting. It's not a prohibitive thing to change the amount of days we do for early voting either adding or taking away I think about this last election where we've seen great expansion of the ability of people to vote from the absentee ballots that could be used for nearly any reason from multiple other different reasons we learned a vote. I must say that I think after hearing testimony for some groups that. I don't think a good faith actors when it comes to certain integrity issues. And thinking about. How we deal with elections here in Pulaski County the utmost mess that was made of that election when I heard from multiple people who work there who are having issues driven both by the ability not to get the work done beforehand and probably some bad faith actors some of which do not work for certain individuals in this county anymore. I think this is a step we need to take I don't think we're disenfranchise and one person I thank people consume adjust their ability to vote to different days and while respect our county clerks I think this is election integrity issue I think it make sure we have good fair elections on the most vital day the day of the actual election so they're done fairly equitably and everybody gets to have their say and every vote that gets thrown out found two weeks later or gets done wrong. Is more of an issue than people having to show up another extra day thank you Mr chairman thank you. There was any further discussion. As a cheer up I want to provide discussion or his will and what's important is clearly laying out the guidelines by which we're gonna hold our elections Most of what I have seen throughout this discussion today is my concern about people that as has been testified to that have an opportunity to prepare themselves so that their staffs are or not overstressed and able to perform their jobs that's why I posed the question that I posed perhaps maybe we look in the future expanding at some but the key is there's a time to vote. And I don't know why one Monday is any different than the previous two monies that her fault and that if the money is your day so I think it's just a matter of getting out in and being present I definitely want people to be able to vote I definitely understand different schedules and but also understand that we should not create environments with the stress is so high on getting things done that mistakes are made and we end up with with certain situations that and up truly causing a problem and so I appreciate the work it's when into this it's I know it's not been loan that you've worked very hard with many different people that have been involved in people of tried their best to bring what they think is is good policy the table so for that I say thank you for that members any other discussion. Seeing no discussion was vote. All those in favor the bill please say aye. All opposed. The bill does fail and You can go obviously come back but Bills failed on on to negative votes. Per share thank you members committee I know it's been a long discussion but appreciated very much and we'll we'll see about coming back yeah thank you. I have a motion to expunge the vote it's a proper motion all those in favor expunging the vote by which the bill failed say aye opposed no it's expunged thank you Sir sure members committee all right Committee I believe they're still here we have believe still on this Special orders five five six correct Senator Mark Johnson if you would. We come. Ninety eight. All right that'd be great. Senator Johnson you're recognized thank you Mister you state your name for the record I Mark Johnson senator District fifteen and I would like to take this opportunity to thank the starring colonel house not just on the work on this bill but on work they've done on many these bills and advising all of us on both. Potential problems practice in the law and I couldn't imagine having a better team of folks that were dedicated in trying to do this help the people know for quite got it in the record with the star is the chair of the few last County Election Commission. Of since this is a new set of bills won't you go ahead and state your name for the record for those they're observing Porsche and we'll get that clarified Douglas House deputy Attorney General. Christi stark plus the county Election Commission chairwoman thanks to recognize Senator. Thank you Mr chairman of this hour I will try to conceive make my. Presentation as concise as possible let me start by saying that the the Arkansas election integrity Act is just that it's too to ensure. Integrity in our elections and I'm I'm not gonna do this section by section analysis I think you're right can read but I do want a Cup couple a couple things I do want to emphasize first of all this is a bill that creates a process that it. Perfect world will happen we won't have any problems where this would even be activated first of all and this is some is very important for everyone to understand I think a lot of people have missed this because I've certainly got phone calls that reflect that this only applies in counties with a population of fifty thousand or greater. So if anybody out there is got a problem with this if your county is less than fifty thousand then you don't really have a problem because it doesn't apply in larger counties we've we've seen some problems that primarily relate to In some cases I won't say every case but in some cases where the some officials do not respect the fact that under Arkansas law under current law not speculative created by this under current law the responsibility for carrying out the elections. Is done by the County Board of election commissioners. And we have had issues where. There have been. Situations where they're doing their job has been impeded in one manner or another I'm going to ask in a moment her testimony the star would give some examples of what they struggled with and appeal asking County but I I do there is one I want to bring up on my own We did have one situation where. the deputy election coordinator in Pulaski County blocked the entrance to the door of the counting room where the then chairman of the commission Evelyn Gomez was trying to gain access she was. The Election Commission chair at that time and the staff member blocked her access to the counting room she persisted and forced her way in that individual afterwards actually filed a police report because she. And make sure that she had access to the room or under the law she not only has the duty she has a responsibility to make sure that the elections carried out correctly so I'm sure that Mystara have other situation she can address but rather than getting it at this point I'd like to just talk quickly about how this would work what the process is and as I have explained to several people from around the state that have contacted me there is a due process for this and what this would ultimately do is it would allow. The State Board of Election Commission after their investigation by a vote to to take over the election process conduct the election on emergency basis in counties where these problems if the problem should occur and the process to do that is very clear it does not appoint him it is not something that is done lightly but the County Board of election commissioners could to buy written order Authorize the chair to make a request to the official that. You can take care of the problem take care of a logistical problem a facilities problem or any other such thing including of providing the resources needed to conduct the elections they would have to be a majority vote of the full Corum of Election Commission. A roll call vote and then if they found that they needed to make such a request to the state board they were first sent a minimum of two not one to separate request to county judge for remedial action other words judge we got a problem here we fix it. After the first one judge no response a state judge we have a problem here will you fix it so requires they might to requests of. That again done by official action by the the the County Board of election commissioners. If of and that that request from river remedial action Would include commissioners decertifying someone who's conducting any part of the election that should quell actually the person creating the problem of now some of the things the county would would need to require would would need to provide to the election. include without limitation secure facilities additional information technology additional personnel acceptable to the County Board of election commissioners and other support that would enable the County Board of election commissioners to carry out its legal responsibility existing under current law to conduct free and equal elections in the county. Also thanks to in include that legal representation and advice free from conflicts of interest with the county judge the county Clerk and other officials elected in a partisan election in the county an additional funding to carry out the legal responsibility of the County Board of election commissioners to conduct those for free and equal elections in the county. Now these request will be transmitted To the county judge to the state board of election commissioners and to the quorum court so everyone would be notified that there were problems in the B. opportunities for these to be addressed and I would like to thank Mister chairman that in that. Maybe perfect world but maybe just a good world that Fishel's locally would see there's a problem and I think in probably the vast majority the counties of the state that's exactly what would happen you have a county judge that would set up site we got a problem we need to fix this and like they do in so many other things from a from a flood to a pothole they step forward and do their job and I think that would have so we've got to look at this process as this is sort of a last resort thing it would be done if if the judge did not do that in the case like the. But once there's a need for this for the commission to vote to is to ask for the assistance of the state board of election commissioners up then. That request would go again to the judge to the quorum court to the prosecuting attorney for the county and of course to the state board the state board of election commissioners within it be required within ten calendar days of receipt of that written request. To conduct the election on the emergency basis in that county to evaluate the request again it's not automatic the County Board has to actually check things out if they think it's frivolous or bogus or whatever then they could tell the County Board that no you haven't made a case in the case that the of do they actually direct the director of the state board of election commissioners to conduct an analysis and make recommendations for action by the state board so there's an investigation of the situation. If the director finds that an emergency exists an emergency actions are necessary to conduct a free and fair free and equal elections in the time frame established by law that's a very important point this is because of our limited time table to get our elections accomplished of that that that that point the authority of the County Board of election commissioners would be taken by the state board who would appoint a person who should become a special employee of the state board in the place of the county election coordinator and would be the responsible party to operate the things related to carry out the election that would they could to suspend the staff person they could do whatever is necessary and compensate from state funds or other funds designated for delivery to the county to operate elections a person to operate the administrative functions of the county they would could secure the machinery the processes and the ballot materials they should not can authorize a person to gain information services technical services security legal support whatever's necessary to conduct free and fair election. this again is on a temporary basis this would only be through that election and through any run off carrying out of connected with the election of the it also authorizes that the. Election expenses that were were described herein would be able to be reimbursed and would seek that the county would. Hi those back for if necessary that would come from state funds Since learned there are some some budgetary vehicles that we can use that can actually the state could step in as part of our contingency powers to make sure that those funds were available The emergency power of the state board would terminate upon the conclusion of that election or any any run off toward general primary that was associated with that. They would the. That point. Everything we go back to the county one thing that I want to point out Mister chairman is that. This is being compared in some ways although certainly not exactly the same to the the situations we've had where school districts have been taken over by the state department's cation that's happened simply because under the law education is the state's responsibility well we have local school boards and they've run things well in almost every case it's still under the constitution or the lake view decision education is a state responsibility elections of the state's responsibility and almost always our local officials do a good job but this is to cover that eventuality so this very temporary and limited state takeover in a worst case scenario would occur and it would to allow that particular election to make sure that it was free and fair and that the voters would be able to regardless of any other. A situation that happened know that that was free and fair I would like if possible to allow at this time we started to tell some of my may not all I don't think we've got all evening but some of described some of the situations that have led us to work on for the last six weeks on putting together this legislation thank you senator Johnson I start restraints do you have comments. Thank you Mr chairman of that I'll be brief there were seven counties we know of that some pretty serious. What a actions took place they were managed to resolve the state board and intervene the political parties had intervene I learned just couple days ago there was an eight county were some money changed hands during an election and that's under investigation we'll see how that works out of Mattel quicks dory there used to be a gentleman by the name of Tom delays some of in the room may remember his name he formed an organization called the election law institute and he brought federal lawsuits against election officials he shut down the the machine in Conway County he got a court order in federal court to run the lections in Searcy county which I happen to work it's a little town of St Joe and supervising the elections. Mr glaze went on to become associate justice glaze of the Arkansas Supreme Court but that is one of the options that was available rather than trying to effect a cure for a major problem then go to court this is inside the state it prevents us from having to have our name all blasted all over the national newspapers like it did when Justice glaze ran his organisation and filed his lawsuit I use this example often there's a stop sign out there on the street you can see through these windows at stop sign does not make any car stop. The only thing that causes people to stop as a policeman watching it or the fear or just the respect of the law that that's what we should do what do you do when you have situations where people are blatantly breaking the existing laws. prosecuting attorney proved to be of no recourse eight an attorney representing the Election Commission in Pulaski County also representative someone that we think was part of the problem and had a conflict of interest the Election Commission did not have funds to bring a lawsuit in their own name and by their own right so when you start looking at the options what do you do so this process was developed to keep it in house. This only happens when the system gets so totally out of control that the county judge in the quorum court had decided that they're going to live with it or ignore it and that's going to be pretty rare hot we've got good people in office and do good things and I have no reason to believe that the election commissions and all seventy five counties are good people and public spirited people but sometimes things happen those seven or eight counties that I mentioned I could name a by name it doesn't serve any purpose today so this is a way to keep it in house to resolve the dispute in house with a loan is senator Johnson mentioned a long process where everybody's got notice that this is coming if we don't fix the problem that's all I know to to add to Senator Johnson. Right. Mr you're recognized. I just I just want to say that In short that basically the county judge stepped in with his right as he can and current executive order that took the staff away from the Election Commission. and when that happened that kind of set the ball rolling for insubordination by the by staff leadership. And at that moment. We lost access. And and by access I mean we didn't have access to the offices the building election anything wouldn't have access to the network to our own processes SO P.. Anything and I don't think you can imagine what that would be like trying to do your own job and I have access to anything that you're doing currently right now but to election that that matters a lot when when covid came he shut down the buildings and and they're still shut down. The public was not allowed to attend. we were not allowed to attend. So we until recently until just a month ago are now allowed to go to a meeting within our own building the public is not allowed to be there. Still cannot going to the offices. So with that multiple things started happening we had as you know very publicly issues with three hundred twenty seven ballots being illegally cast it's not easy to legally cast three hundred twenty seven ballots they're not just laying around separated from their envelopes that was not the only issue we also had multiple issues there is a night at twelve and a half hour meeting where we had a hundred seventy five ballots that were. Missing. And that was a very long process and that same night we also had a discovery of a ballot box that was sitting in it And secure room. their depositions we discovered that there was a mapping error that was never disclosed and people did not get to vote on a state representative race I found out in December. There is also a memo that was sent it through to other people but not us on another mapping issue at this because I discovered that during depositions and December. And they're all there is another night will a ballot boxes discovered and that was fifteen days after the election again these are a few examples of dozens and dozens and dozens of examples I will not go into detail those examples. Because it's just too much there's twelve hundred pages of information do depositions where you can hear some of these examples sadly I discovered more these things through depositions. You can find this information on public websites the date live stream and see how this unfolded. It's available to you we had outside groups that infiltrated our elections. There are county officials. I raise the I raised that information to the state board I raise that an issue to other officials I talked to the county attorney I reached out to the prosecuting attorney on election day had meeting with him at nine thirty that morning nobody could do anything. Everybody's hands were tied and you saw what the how come was we actually had a certified election. That we didn't feel confident about. The outcome because our hands were tied. And we were being advised by county attorney who has a conflict of interest. So we need this bill. We need this bill not just for our county because currently we still do not have access we still don't have access to our own contracts we still have access to our network we serve access to our election materials are building our offices anything still. Nor do our staff listen to us or are following the rules to what we're asking them to do. But who is the next county going to be. Is the question. And I understand this only applies to fifty thousand population or more. But this is not the only county this is happened to by the way and I do know that and that that two other counties that are over fifty thousand or more also had outside groups fund raising for them during the selection they raise money for this for their counties for PP. Publicly as well as set up websites for them to recruit poll workers. I don't think that that's allowable. So these are there's a lot of it issues that go on in this bill kind of addresses that so if there's bad there's bad actors there's issues going on there's a lot of in this bill provides remedies it's not like you can just say Hey state board committee governor election it forces you to go to the county judge and say Hey this is going on please please fix it and you have to do it twice since over a long period of time so she's not immediate effect and if if everybody refuses the just say No cow like what's happened Class a county for everyone's refusing to do their to do their part then it goes the state board and they can say mom this is not rise to that level so there's a there's a lot of that of padding within this bill that is you know there's a lot of checks and balances to ensure that everything is being followed so we need this bill these other counties are going to need this bill and to ensure that what happened plus a county does not happen in any other county thank you. Mr chairman if I could to mention. As a corollary to everything that was started so that. The Commission has the legal authority and responsibility for the election. Anyone else is an adviser or a. House had excellent term they were detailed to help on the election or whatever but who who actually is in charge in each county and and I know that everyone from from the the volunteers the the poll workers the county Clerk there's a lot of people that that pitch in and make sure this happens but who is responsible under Arkansas law the County Board of election commissions is responsible in here we had a situation right here Lasky council that there was major impediments to them carrying out those responsibilities thank thank they had a job to do they had ultimately be accountable for it but they didn't have the cooperation of of the local officials to do that and I I want to to to mention that because that's extremely important remember I this very room we're sitting in right now a couple three months ago I got a call from stars predecessor is chair Is Gomes and she said Senator can you find a room court R. Election Commission can meet a so what do you mean she's as well judge has locked us out of our own offices and we can't have a meeting so I called our secretary of the Senate to scorn will. And said could the spring court chamber be used to say saving for midnight lection Commission meeting she said it could be and so the gentleman that does a live streaming for them was kind enough to come over and set it up right here in this room and they sat in the chairs were Senator Bledsoe and if she hears Senator English words that and the Pulaski County Election Commission had come meet in this room because they were locked out of their own offices now. That's just extreme example on it it might just look at something that's Petty and I think in many ways it probably was petty but but the fact of the matter is They still had the responsibility to have their meeting in the conduct their business and they needed just a little. But I help and I was pleased to to with coordination of our staff to allow this room to be used for that so this just gives an example of how extreme this is been and and I. As is current house said there's been some irregularities and other counties to but but I I look around our state and the county judges and county clerks I know they would they would be appalled to think that something like that would happen in their county and I would I would be shocked to death I think it would happen because I know they're committee could could people that would would death just do everything they can like Senator Rapert R. Clark and Clark County who's a good friend of both of us I did I just know that she just be appalled here something like that and and we don't pass laws for all the good people we don't pass laws is current house if people to stop the stop sign we have to pass laws to the people that that don't play by the rules and and create the problem so this is a bill that fixes a real problem in some areas. A potential problem maybe in others but in I think the vast majority of the cases that local officials are gonna stop the stop sign they're going to do things exposed today so I'm I appreciate the committee's indulgence I know this is one was complicated bills in this whole of special order but I'd be happy to answer any questions that I know my colleagues would as well. Right senator I've got a question as we open it up and that is Is this mentor a resolution each that you all have crafted here alone or did you seek any did you look around and other areas of the country was or anybody that there's a template for this or do we simply have to come up with this well here let me say Mr chairman that that it was a group effort for starters no we had to. Several current and former legislators despite a colonel House being one of the most important one Senator Hammer B. R. T. facto chair of our meetings is star and would be remiss if I didn't thank former deputy secretary of state AJ Kelly is not turning this helped us with this this had to be follow Arkansas law so while we may have had some ideas from other states services primarily right looking at Arkansas law and and the responsibilities that that our constitution and law placed on the commissioner's and therefore responding to it in that manner okay centers any questions. Senator Tucker. Thank you Mr I am honest I'll start. Just with the financial aspects of it But I have a few questions related to that you know on page six of the bill. Subsection G.. One four three seven it talks about drawing funds from the account. When we just put all the financial questions into one so you can instrument however you see fit is there a. Source for those funds is there a fiscal impact statement on this that's part of it another part is that. State board of election commissioners is going to be incurring expenses that they can then invoice the council for. in that county has to pay within twenty one days Are they spending county funds are please clarify that for me I'm concerned also about Amendment fifty five to the state constitution which says the county funds can only be spent by the or the county judges is the one that has the constitutional authority to do that and the county budgets are set by the quorum court and so we have an unelected the way I see it and I'm that's why I'm asking so you can clarify we have an unelected group of individuals spending county money in a way that hasn't been authorized by the quorum court of the county judge so where is this money coming from is it county money is there fiscal impact statement other constitutional concerns with the counties involved those are the kind of the gist of the financial questions that I have I want curl has to address some of those Senator but let me start with the there is an appropriation for the state board of election commissioners and I have an amendment pending that will go through joint budget that will increase their funding for that hopefully unused eventuality that something like this is triggered but there are there's another fund and I you senator Hammer to tell me what it was but there is a contingency fund that I cannot remember the name of the remember. But it is a contingency fund that can be triggered under under current law in a situation such as this that would be state funds The without going into the details I'll let currently there but If the council doesn't meet its responsibilities that are under current law then this would create a mechanism for the state to withhold some funding that would normally be paid to them as a regular rate on the regular basis thank you Laskey County it's a little different I think because of the way the judiciary's funded bill asking council to. There's also this the state this collection by the update sales tax that that could be it so there is a mechanism of garnishment if you will call it that it's probably not the right legal term in this case but I think it's analogous to that that could could be established in this but again this is one there's wrongdoing this is when there has actually had to be local officials didn't do their job and the state had to step in and fix it and so it's we're covering it both on up front funding basis through an appropriation to the state board and then on the the back backend to to recover that on behalf of the taxpayer's when Quentin if local officials don't do their job and currently ask you. Elaborate just a little bit more on the legality. There's a couple of Supreme Court cases where this comes from the quorum court never loses its responsibility to appropriate sufficient funds to run the election. That never goes away even the court says that but like any other and there's a second case that basically says. They have to spend the money and the money can be taken whether they appropriated or not if it comes down to the now that's real thumbnail sketch but the quorum court still must appropriate the money in the first instance and the money still must be spent and paid whether they appropriated or not that seems inconsistent but sometimes the Supreme Court does things like that. After you've gone through the whole process if the quorum court in the county judge don't step forward and the state has to come in and to ensure that there's a fair and final action. This state board of education is going to spend state appropriated money to perform that election and then they're going to send the bill to the county the county is expected to pay it your expected appropriate enough money if they don't one source of funds is sales tax revenue that is not the county's money yet until it's delivered collected by the State invigilator prepaid to the county but it doesn't become their property until it is paid over and there are other statutes that we have on the books that allows anyone or any entity including a government that owes the state money for that those funds to be seized I would not be very much fun to do I'm sure that U. S. policymakers wouldn't want to do that but I think the money how will in the first draft of this my approach was a lot stricter it would be and just take the money from the counties through their turn back funds or sales tax turnover do the election Intel the county Suess. That didn't seem fair to the rest of the group but that was certainly an option and now you see a process for the state to pay for and send the bill to the council they don't think they within they can litigate. Okay. Senator Johnson you you mentioned. That this process is analogous to the state taking over school district in the wall and I understand that analogy I think that process is in my personal opinion far from perfect there are some pretty clear standards laid out for when the state can take over local school district in this bill on page three on lines twenty four and twenty five it's ultimately the standard is just. If if the county judge not perform to their satisfaction and I may be missing it in the bill but I don't see where an emergency is defined anywhere in the bill either and so to me that leaves a. A lot of ambiguities pretty VA what a discretionary power in in the hands of a really just to members of the County Board of election commissioners that's another concern that I would want to give you a chance to address the actually Senator would take three there has to be a meeting has to be a quorum and has to be a vote so while yes there's a majority party has two seats minority party as one it requires the entire commission take that action and and to before I ask colonel has to elaborate on a little bit more I want to one point out that to the Emergency situation has to do with. There is a finite period of time involved it is the it starts at a hundred twenty days before an election and it ends at the after a run off connected with that election so you're he this the emergency room you say it's not fine it's that window around that election and as far as is the What what the county has to do it's it's what's necessary under the law under current law for the collection commission to carry out election and that could be everything from giving him a key to the building they needed to of making sure the equipment was secure and and on and on and off but I'll ask currently kind of get into from the legality so. I had a discussion. Had another discussion with a lawyer friend of ours who made the same argument. And hi at like in that argument that the governor cannot declare an emergency from a tornado unless it's in the of three or higher despite what a one or two the F. one or two might be. This is an emergency situation and it's impossible in leased the without. Creating entire volumes of all of the circumstances but there are a number of things that they have to do in state law that the county may provide to the Election Commission has support in kind particularly the statute say that the counties will fund the elections period it doesn't say the county will provide staff that says the council will provide a suitable place it doesn't say it will provide funds for those places so if any of those criteria are not met both of which are required to perform the election place to store the machines place to obtain the balance and all of that if any of those criteria don't me that means they're violating the state law I'm not providing those resources once the Election Commission documents these problems to the county judge and the quorum court I want to make sure the quorum court has to be informed on this state. And if they choose which I doubt would happen in ten thousand cases maybe one that they refuse to recognize the problems then it comes to the state board and they find emergency based on the election not going to be the election will not be held properly or within the law that is required that is an emergency it's not an EF five it's in the if two or three or four so I don't when you say it's an emergency situation I don't know that you can define it other than here's the body of law that says an election will be conducted according to the standards and we're not meeting those standards for whatever reason. I wanna make one other point if an Election Commission and I. Assume and I presume that all seventy five counties have election commissioners that have like minded and public spirited people if they get out of hand this Election Commission can pull them out just the same as it can pull the the county officials out of it they are county officials stood by statute so you gotta be real careful before you start saying well I don't like to color this chair complained to the state board you better have your ducks in a row and you better document clearly hope that answers your question it does the example use with tornado still has clearly defined standards though and I in you identified a couple of examples there in violation of state law I wonder if you just couldn't have a reference to the laws. That impose the obligations on the council saying you violate one of these laws that may be what constitutes an emergency rather than just leave it blank you study more than I have and and I have a lot of respect for your judgment so I'll leave it to you but I just I think still have that question my next question is on page six one ten it talks about maps required as part of redistricting can I just don't understand what's going on there could you explain six line well if if I'll jump on this one okay of. Senator Tucker is you know the of. Decennial censuses. As someone will say upon us we had a weather man used his or or use mental run said the weekend is upon us well the census is upon us and the right responsibility of the Election Commission the County Board of election commissioners DO redistricting. Is upon us and so part of the the activity that for their county offices I'm sorry for their county offices my understanding project the districts for all sit precinct boundaries in the things that we as a matter of course do every ten years after the senses since were questions should have had it a long time ago but it's covered under here simply because it's one of those pending responsibilities that we see them coming and it would be as much a part of the election needs as you know having the machines charged up. The of that okay or anything else. Be mindful that people speak on the bill Senator tion we've got a gentleman that's waiting here patiently for nearly two as part of the bill I think we don't we sometimes forget that measurement on them at the everybody ask questions we go folks we just will be mindful of. Any other questions here you or they want to interrupt you Senator Johnson I just want to make that statement so we can take that out there I'll defer to the other members Mr Marin Senator Johnson anything else or is anybody have a question for the presenters. Anything else before we take those are going to speak against senator I'll wait to close thank all right very well thank you for your presentations I have two people that are signed up to speak against this bill Duggar one in Melanie Winkler are you present I thank judge your one. And if it's alright with you Senator would just have both come. Judge if you'd please state your name for the record he represents or. number one on the local county judge I'm also the vice president of the county judges association. and the leg chair for our association. And I've been the judges small eleventh year. And the first of all Mister chairman I want to thank you all for your time you know of her statement that time didn't matter unless she's doing it. but someone get that on the way home. I know that the. At a due respect for your time I will belabor a lot of these points that there is a lot of information in this bill and the county judges. Seventy five oh. We have seventy five counties seventy five county judge's or opposed to this bill adamantly opposed. And for not reasons of of trying to because I I certainly have respect for a senator Johnson. And that I believe that his intent of this bill is is is well You know intended. But for some of the same reasons. That he's got this bill I would submit to you that it creates problems on the county level. He referred to the County Board of election commissioners it takes three people to. Submit a. The request for the state to come in and do something about a contested election or if the. The problems with it. the bill unless I'm missing something it says that it's too from the majority party. In this Bill gives prior to that and I believe that creates it doesn't matter what side of the fence literally you're standing on with you what political affiliation you have. I don't think it's fair to either party. And certainly not fair to the taxpayers when you look at it from the standpoint. Of a. Home page the seven lines thirty three thirty six they referred to it previously. Already for The if the state comes in. And in holes election. Whatever expense acre even though the the election is a county expense. There's gonna be somebody else calling the shots on how much money spent. And that. It's always been My knowledge that they hate Caesar FOR somebody else spend your money. And. There's a. I believe. That the right to vote hi it's being expressed here today like I said we've been here all afternoon and and as a respect for y'all's time. the right to vote there's probably nothing more important I would even go so far as to say it's a sacred right. And nine everybody should be allowed to exercise that. addressing in the bill. The county is that has fifty thousand people or more. I have a question that the that's constitutional affair even the smaller counties said well the smaller counties might not have this problem. But I don't know how we can impose this on one. A. Senate measures when we don't measure the whole state by. By those same standards. And I see concerns that if in the event that you're in a processor the middle election. Has is we've heard testimony here today that. You know. Whether it happened or it didn't happen I I don't have no knowledge of of all that they're referring to. But I would say that. If user a week into the election and a you got a week to go. I don't know if there's provisions. To have the state come in. And and take over the election so I think it poses a lots and lots of problems like I said I would like to reiterate that the. That. There's been a comment made today about the authority of this person the funds you know Amendment fifty five section three of the alteration of a. In line two and six. The Amendment. Is this to a are you know the powers of the county judges to authorize and approve disbursements and procreation county funds. A line number four is to the minister ordinances enacted by the quorum court. And And to hire employees except those persons employed by other elected officials now that that's constitutional is fourteen fourteen level one. And the. So with with that the Mr chairman I'd be happy to take take any questions. Any questions for judge or one. Judge I have one you obviously you all currently discuss this issue was there anyone that happened to bring an idea of how you could appropriately addressed something as egregious as what happened in Pulaski County. I certainly wouldn't have the answer you know. I think we all understand that you can't. Legislate morals or ethics even though there's there's you know fourteen fourteen twelve oh two is is talks about ethics laws. So to. Say that we have a solution I think every situation is is on an individual basis. I don't think it applies to. Or these Instances that I've heard testimony here today that occurred in Pulaski County I don't think this certainly applies in every county so I've I couldn't answer that Mr chairman. And I realize now that a basket that's pretty tough questions for for use I apologize but yields bond that way but saying no other questions judge or we appreciate your testimony anything else you lacks a. No Sir I just like a a no vote on the line on this bill for these reasons all right thank you very much good see you get into circuit Sir next is Melanie Winkler. We need to get some new holds in that barrister no wish people get here quicker. if you would please state your name may represent the record yes my name is Melanie Winkler and I'm the county Clerk in cross county and I'm here To represent the county clerk's association I serve as the first vice president of the county clerk's. So. I would like to thank you first this is my first time to serve our thank you Mr chairperson. My condolences to. Thank you. In speaking with my fellow county clerks most of the county clerk's have a good working relationship with their alleged violation commissioners. And many of the county Clerk to do a lot of that work themselves without the help of the Election Commission even though we realize that you know it is their position but. If the state takeover were to go forward that would give more power to the election commissioners. Away from the elected officials and the deputies that actually work this elections and this would put a hardship on the election process as we know it just. For the state takeover because they could pick and choose what elections. The you know they would want the state to pick over just in case there was an incident of a personality conflict I agree that there's really no criteria that states you know that is specified. For the state to be able to step in and decide if it was needed or not. But from what I've heard here today most of the laws that. I have are the things that they have already done or laws that have already been broken and it sounds like to me those need to be prosecuted because they have already broken those laws those are class A. misdemeanors. And that's really all I have okay. Is there anyone has a question senator garner. Thank you I understand that your point about this being laws are broken ninety prosecuted I think the issue that Senator Johnson trying to address is what do you do when you're middle of battle when they're election going on in this is happened beforehand in a word about the integrity of the election and if there's bad actors who right now there's no way for anybody really step in and fix a problem as is happening you know it's prosecute after the fact and that's very important. But. It's very clear that from the actions that happen there could have been decisions made that affected elections and as we see the courts and even some the claim commissions have very little power to step in and stop that from we seen from some election so this seems like a way to. Kind of have it going and address the problem immediately and have to stay a step in on was a mercy would you disagree with that well I would see well my my issue with that is is how quickly if it's got to go through the judge and it's got to go through the quorum court asked county Clerk for eleven years and I have ran most of these elections. I don't see how that process could be done that quickly if they were being locked out of a room how or how is that process going have that emergency process going to take place to go to the county judge or to have to election commissioners and then go to the county judge how are we going to follow through with that process. In such a quick period of time if it is an emergency at that moment. So I mean is this going to be because of a. You know could it be a personality conflict because you know a hundred twenty days before the election that you're needing to. I have the state take in or is this going to be something that is taking place. On the Friday before the election. I don't I don't. Not sure if the if five. Thank you man address date thank you ma'am appreciate you. Members any further questions. Seeing none thank you ms Winkler you're being here I have no one else listed to speak for against the bill senator Johnson so you're recognized close for your bill. As I begin to close Mr chairman I'd like to ask Mr J. Kelly to come up and since may with this close first someone thank judge everyone for coming over and he tells me it seventy five as seventy five county judges oppose this bill I I don't doubt that because nobody likes to be told how to run their business but I failed to see anything that that had to do with the particulars of this bill which as I stated very clearly is an emergency situation a contingency situation and not a day to day thing to do that He said we can't legislate morals or ethics I think it's exactly what we're trying to do here we start with the moral thing that the people have a right of moral right to expect their elections to be fair and and honest and not and free from corruption and so yes I have a right to do that and if we can't legislate that then we should sign he died this afternoon go home and take care of our own personal business so we're here to do this up also as I mentioned I would I would like to see the supplied every county I would like to see the pipeline every precinct but as a practical matter we have to target the areas we have problems and try to fix it and more importantly and I want to thank up missed are and and current house and Mister Kelly because we did work on this for six weeks because we couldn't identify the problem we worked on it for six weeks because we needed to avoid causing a problem for miss Winkler and and judge one and other people around the state that do their dead level best to do their job right if if we were just going to use a scatter gun approach it would have been a whole lot simpler to do and we would have done it instead we tried to come in carefully and crafted where would they do if there's a problem I do process. Because it's established that would allow us to go in and with the help of the staff of the state board of election commissioners on a vote of that state board after review by that staff then step in and do what was needed to be fixed carry that out only for the duration of that election and run off and then things would go back so it's it's like the fireman shows up with the fire truck puts the fire out and then he goes home and hopefully we got it before anything was damaged that's in a perfect situation how this legislation would work but yes it is legislating morality we are trying to do that and and one thing I wanted to to mention I appreciate this week or so much and people act like miss Winkler and the other clerks there people might Arkansas work I mean I recognize that and and I'm so grateful for them because I mean they're true public servants but when she says you know that the. Coordinator that would be sent in by the State Board could pick and choose officials. People pick and choose officials anyway our commission has a right to certify decertify. People that are allowed to touch a ballot that are allowed to participate in the process and that's to protect the integrity of the ballot and so yes there's personalities I I realize that we're dealing with human beings here so I would only want emphasize the fact that I'm not expecting your by the perfect and I even though they're gonna be counties out there that don't do it perfectly but it doesn't rise to the level of the kind of problems that we saw here in Pulaski County and even in some other counties so and as far as prosecution. We have another bill to deal with that and I won't get into center hammers bill on that but we've got some some teeth in another bill that will hopefully solve some of these problems of she made sure how could you come in with an emergency well in an emergency this would authorize the state board Senate coordinator in he go downtown and rented office if he needed to to conduct the election if you're locked out of the county office there are procedures that would this bill would empower them to do to solve that situation and I'll turn this over to Mr Kelly the capped a wrap that up and then I'll have the last word. Thank you I I feel like I'm late to the party on this one no you're not create your time if you would state your name for the record who you represent my name's AJ Kelly I I am simply a taxpayer in a voter I don't represent anyone so as to be here by Senator and so I have I'm here all right. You're recognized. I would say I just want to dress the county judge's point from this perspective there is this constitutional conundrum about who has the power during the course of an election between the county judge an Election Commission and that issue was resolved by the Supreme Court in a twenty eighteen case where Jackson County had this a very similar type of problem that's been discussed today which is the Election Commission in the county judge didn't agree on who should be exercising the executive power of the Election Commission. So that question about who has the power to do it was resolved by the Supreme Court in the twenty eighteen case the Election Commission during an election has the ultimate power but the problem that was evident in the twenty twenty election and I will just go back to what Colonel Howe said several counties not simply one in central Arkansas but several counties had a similar problem in another county I won't mention the name another county the Election Commission was replaced twice between the primary and the general election extraordinary circumstance it took an awful lot of time in an awful lot of money from the county which had appropriate twice for training. The hope is that this proposal will never be used. But just the fact that it exists gives Election commissioners the power that the Supreme Court says they already have to make sure that the elections happen in a constitutional matter and I think the concern that Mr are proposed or or highlighted is their concern is election commissioners are required by the constitution by law to be responsible for how elections turn out whether they did everything or had control of it or not. This proposal is to give them the statutory power that the Supreme Court says they already have and to give them some remedy some mechanism to make sure that in the event that there in that election window in time is running or running out they can do something they have some power to say state board we need help in again the state board doesn't have to do anything the state of Arkansas gosh we've seen you before we don't think that you have it on things right we're not gonna do anything to you at all state park to say that the County Board is back to their own devices so I think it's a pretty it is a very comprehensive bill I don't want to sit it's legislating morality what I would say is it's giving the election commission's statutory power the Supreme Court says they already have in here early in the constitution. And I ask for a good vote thank you. Mr chairman I really appreciate Mr Kelly uses steam lawyer and expert on elections that has been advising me and Senator Hammer and some others law on this course of. What it comes down to the fact that we we also stipulate that the election that cat each county Election Commission has its responsibility and they have the authority to. And and delegate is not the right term probably but Colonel has used a term used a military term I like they can detail of they can authorized collection fish local officials such as a county Clerk to detail people to help carry out the election because it is a temporary job it's not a full time thing except for the the coordinator in most cases. But. It doesn't change that detailing and that coordination with with the the the people that services judges Clarkson and poll workers that doesn't change that constitutional and legal responsibility the state of Arkansas has put on the election and that under our statutes we do it with the County Board of election commissioners That's what this bill does it it it gives them. A. An emergency. Purpose of power up I think of that we used in this room have a fire extinguisher over on the wall I had a piece of the this is where thank you break the glass and get the fire extinguisher if it's needed to put out a fire to make sure that we can go forth and have a election that the has integrity and our people can trust that the result was was done right and and that's what it's really all about it's to keep the public's confidence in our system because the election wasn't stolen it wasn't your regular and that the right result was chosen because we applied these checks and balances and allowed Arkansas law to be followed because there was in the again that rare case where the state board would have to step in and perhaps with this bill enacted that might not ever have to happen simply because it would created a deterrent we're some someone that might be a wrong doer would say we don't want to jeopardize our funding we are never jeopardize our time anything else so I'm grateful for the the tolerance in this complex bill of the committee and I appreciate a good vote and I'm close. I have a motion was a pleasure of the Committee. I have a motion to pass from senator garner is their second. I have a second from Senator Ballinger is there any discussion on the motion. None all those in favor the bill please say aye. All opposed no. The bill fails you have an opportunity of course come back senator Johnson I have. I have a motion by Senator Ballinger to expunge the vote to have second. Second from senator Bledsoe all favor say aye opposed no it's expunged thank you Sir. Bills. we've got to members we have a couple bills and that we will try to to handle with this. Senator Johnson I don't know if you want to stay for this either but I will take these others because their own agenda first. Or thank. You will come back another time on that one then all right senator Wallace if you would please come Sir you've been a real trooper. Senator Wallace you've got to bills I believe right sure. And is there Mr it's good to see you by the way I know that we just had a. Day honoring Vietnam veterans thank you I appreciate your service and they just wanna make mention that all of our veterans Senator Wallace I believe you've got Senate bill one nineteen is that the one you like to take up yes Sir one ninety eight you're recognized for presentation of S. B. one nineteen and thank you Mr chair senator Dave Wallace district twenty two and I'm glad we got the super bills all the way so I get to this one what is your heart Senate bill one nineteen we actually passes out of the Senate R. L. this committee back into February It roll call thirty five votes the Senate went down to the house once again the House we realize that we have made up of a little circle era and we struck out a line actually two lines in we eliminated temporary employees which means employ a person who has been appointed from register for a period of time not to exceed six months so we struck that out after that it passes the house bill ninety five votes just a reminder this bill it helped refine the catastrophic leave program for a the General Assembly the BLR legislative audit department of transportation state game and fish Supreme Court court of appeals it's it's a good bill very simple bill. K.. So simply what you're telling me is amended that was it yes Sir all right any questions at all saying no questions I have a motion to pass Senator Ballinger is second from senator garner we can have a discussion on the bill. Check with staff but I think we make a motion to concur in the amendment not motion do pass as how we did the other one I just wanna make sure we got. All right we have a motion to concur in the amendment second. All right do pass as amended follows for say aye aye aye opposed no. Bill passes. Hey Mister I have a. Senate bill two eighty eight which will take just about the same amount of time all right you're recognized for Senate bill two eighty eight. Sure this is a change in language bill submitted by the agency ADQ. What it does is it changes. Allows us to change a word from. Regulation or deregulation to rule. And it does that throughout the bill. Was bill allows a PC and other simulated agencies a simplified version of a fost process to make changes nomenclature required by a three fifteen of the transportation act. just change your words are. Yeah with that I'll stand back for questions. Question senator garner. Has a Senator Hickey sing this usually is pretty Hey guys hands over security any problem with the talking about it no I have not senator garner I don't have a problem we have I will do that before I found taking the for the I just know it's his baby and yeah we that the bill not too long ago and I don't think I have issue with that is what I will do that. Members any further questions on this bill. Yes thanks Senator Ballinger recommend I didn't get the bill number but my question is is this basically just so we pass the bill Senate represent Dotson occurred and Senate they were the basically changed us from promulgating regulations to just rules so this basically just making it comply with that act so it's taking the regulation in place refers regulation out in the the appeal numbers to eighty eight and let me look back to my A. D. you for that. One of. Senator Wallace what was the derivation of this bill what. Is this an agency bill or man who do you who is asking you to run this. lose eighty Heuser eighty Q. yes Sir okay. What. If you would please state your name and who you're represents the record. Yes chairman my name is Michael McAllister I am the. Deputy chief counsel for the department of energy and environment. And the department of energy environment that came out of the transformation Act rounding nineteen includes the pollution control and ecology Commission in D. E. Q.. that act along with the another ACT twenty nineteen change the rate to rule like us Senator Ballinger referenced another act in that same. In that same session. Yeah I believe it was a number eight ninety three. Of twenty nineteen allow to a process for most state agencies that are covered by the administrative procedures act to make some of these nomenclature changes wholesale so they they can kind of by pass through normal rulemaking process to change the name of the department and change erect a rule all at once there's just a handful of agencies that are not covered by the administrative procedures act. DQ in the pollution control and ecology Commission. Or some of those so this is simply a bill to allow that same kind of housekeeping change for for those agencies and a few others like PSE or workers comp if they want to do it. To make those changes and comply with the. Transformation ACT in the rule directs rules act that were passed in twenty nineteen. Senator Ballinger said just one one point of clarification and and I honestly could be wrong so I carried the weaker the bill is action for the department of corrections allow them to just so do it all at once the but I don't know that it actually provide for name changes are you saying that that Act did man I I could of I don't remember that being part of the process I don't know if that was true for for the actor referencing I would just say for a minute probably make sure you get that right before you say it again somebody else but otherwise it's good bill. Thank. All right members any other questions on this bill. Seeing no questions I've got a motion to pastor Senator Ballinger second senator Bledsoe any discussion on the bill. Seeing none all in favor of the bill say aye. All opposed no bill passed thank you senator thank you Mr thank you thank you. Members of the do you want to run this Dotson thing is it a quickie. All right members let's run quickly house bill seventeen twenty Senator Ballinger going to handle that that'll be it and I know you've had a huge day. For. Both. All right we'll put is built on the Senator Hester is supposed to run but he didn't you know see fit to show up so I'm going to kill it I'm okay with that I'd support that completely. So this is a bill that just a couple years ago remember we made the pass to build up a low middle law requires a review of the rules on a regular basis well what we found is that it with the dates that were set in that it created a a burden for BLR to be able to comply with some dates and so I think it pushed one of the dates from from January first to July and that's basically all of this just makes it easier for them to to carry out the function within the rules. With the bill okay. Members you have any questions on house bill seventeen twenty. I don't see any questions being given here anything else I don't think it's very exciting. Members you have a motion on this bill. motion do pass a second Senator Ballinger almost favor say aye. All opposed no. All right I hear everyone knows the bill passes thank you. All right. What are you about to ram down our throats your senate H. B. sixteen thirty seven which is actually failed one state responds to vote it is a bill that's my executive order I make a motion for immediate consideration on this bill L. as in at least see the bill. It is the one I ran earlier the executive order one is the exact same language I passed be passed near the involved person to build a house first you have the most your co sponsors on in one person here you must have taken that it allow hot when you're in the chair I don't see you know it was Senator Bledsoe doing the right thing it was. you were in a chair yeah. See you at the moment is. All right motion for committee consideration. I actually I'm actually sponsor there you go at it you to it. All right well anything else on this bill. All right have a motion to pass from Senator Ballinger I second the motion. all those of favour say aye aye opposed no bill passes thank you for all right. Member's job that I do appreciate you I know it's been a heck of a day so we'll see you on Thursday thank you Roger.