Joint Budget Committee

It will start in a couple minutes. All right members will call Joint Budget order. We. Senator Johnson if you go the table. Transformational we're doing here on special language report thank you Mr yes Sir thank you Mr chairman one item B. one this is an item it's House Bill it's an amendment to house bill ten eighty one state board of election commissioners this was held in till the substitute bill the express language subcommittee did recommend it for approval so we have the special language report in front of you with that amendment. Senator John for your device to help explain what you're doing thank you Mr chairman mark Johnson centre District fifteen this was Held up until we until Senate bill six forty four it passed its now in role knows where the governor and this as special languages defines the fiscal side of the terms and in Senate bill forty four that would to a fund elections in the event that counties failed to meet their responsibilities. Preciado maybe option any questions for senator. All right we got Senator just feel. Recognized ma'am thank you Mr chair Senator Johnson. The total amount is what now and is it be wanted to. I'm sorry center with your masking I'm hardly hear you. What is the bill number is the number on the sheet. The number of the appropriation number. What is the agenda number of the appropriation. In the B. one B. one B. all right and this is to do what senator I'm sorry. It allows a transfer of funds in the event that the council refuses to pay the expenses of an election. And why would the county refused to pay the expense of elections that's good questions Senator I hope they don't but this is a contingency in case that happens. It will happen I'm sorry has that ever happened in some cases yes ma'am. Where are. Two counties in my district have had problems with. One little one one okay and they are. Delaski in band beer did they refused to pay for election but not entirely Senator but certain expenses. Thank you yes ma'am. Any other questions Senator Elliot you're recognized. So senator Johnson you have you have in a bin legislation and waiting is that have you pass something the legislation center hammers bill Senate bill six forty fourths already passed all right best and so you would could you would you could you describe to me what has led to the problem that any county would refuse to pay for the election just give me an idea of what they did what what was their rationale I could tell you exactly what that was but there was a disagreement over expenses there was one case I the only one I can really remember had to do with Commissioners. I hate say overspending their budget but they I had certain under state law certain expenses they were allowed to and the the county did a I will call it a guesstimate budget of what that would be for that year and it was during a transition year when they had new machines and had to implement some new things and they. Tapped out their budget very early in the in the fiscal year and so there was some push back on that it is a convoluted story but the bottom line is this is to make sure that the elections are funded and we'll figure out who's at fault later but we can't afford to not fund the elections absolutely I agree with that when did when did this happen in these two counties that you're talking about we're talking bout to counties out of seventy five. When did this happen these are the only two I would just wear these I don't know about others senator Reid senator Chesterfield asked me which counties and I just mentioned these two that in my district that there was some kind of problem like this and I I could cannot added I know there been others but I'm not personally familiar with but you know that they've been others. I'm sorry Sir I said but you know there have been others but you're actually asking us to based on your knowledge change things and change the funding based on two counties out of seventy five based on what you actually I'm I can't speak to the other seventy two is it everyone in my district I'm asking you to but I am asking you aren't you asking us to make this change based on two counties out of seventy five no ma'am I'm what what what based on your knowledge that's what you said well this was not just this is Amendment I'm caring but I'm not the only one ball there's also and again Senate bill six forty four is on the governor's desk and it this is simply funding that will implement the procedures that are outlined in that and that's why we work I'm sorry Senator I was I'm not concerned about the number of people Karen the Bill I'm just concerned about fairness and picking and choosing certain counties that you want to deal with through legislation word nothing is a problem right now so I don't care if it's fifty people on the bill. Fifty people as far as I'm concerned would be out of line if we are based on two counties out of seventy five and we can't even point out what the issue is that led to the non funding if indeed it happened you asking us to change something based on. And on something that is Senator almost unfounded I would disagree that the there's no problem and that we can we can leave this great however again the General Assembly has passed Senate bill six forty four. And it needs funding we with the General Assembly made a policy decision and this is simply the budgetary side of of that decision okay carry on Senator. Senator Hammer you have a question yes Sir Mr. You're recognized thank you senator Johnson this this is appropriation only correct yes Sir and the only time it would be used is in the event that the processes that are being put in place are implemented and if those processes are implemented that's going to be a real indication that there's a real problem that needs to be addressed forget the past looking to the future is this not part of what's going to make sure that. The process is in place are funded so we can address whatever may come in the future. Yes Senator Hammer your comment is spot on this is simply the budgetary side in case there is a problem going forward it doesn't try to go backwards and look at any particular thing this is an FY twenty two appropriation that will cover any eventuality that happens during fiscal year twenty. And so it is appropriation only that if we have to take over an election of any county which every counties important and every size matters as we've seen in this last election cycle the number of house races that were lost by very few numbers that's the only time this appropriation would get used and that money that this would create the opportunity is money that's already budgeted by the counties for that election so it's not like we're asked for new money we're just creating a pathway forward for that money to transfer is that correct yes Sir that is absolutely correct all right thank you thank you Mr thank you Sir. Senator Hendren you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair so as you know center Johnson last session we appropriated several million dollars to counties for new election equipment yes we also appropriate money to fund elections and state level and what you're asking here now is for if for whatever reason the county chooses not to hear the county Election Commission chooses not to that they're gonna get out of general revenues is that correct yes Sir this is this is an aggregate center it's not like that we're going to their seven million dollars goes to some one county the problem I get that this is a a statewide in and not every problem is a huge problem could be a smaller problem but it this funds what we did in Senate bill six forty four and we'll see that the appropriations there in the hopefully unlikely event that there's a problem again though I I from. Legislators from other parts of the state where they haven't seen this problem you're asking the state general revenue cool to be used to cover these expenses even though they've already been paid for once through the budgeting process I guess what I want to hear and that's if that's what we have to do to pay for elections I think all of us want elections to be paid for but we also want to know more about why. They're not getting paid for the dollars we've already allocated so I guess what I want to hear is I've heard vague references to these two counties an issue issues I think you're gonna ask us to do this give us clarity about why there was this dispute what happened and why it makes it necessary now for the general revenue to be the source of revenue for these elections even though it's already been paid for other ways Senator Hendren and is in my answer to senator Elliots question I believe I covered that is this is a contingency uses in addition to what the let's just call it the general normal operations for elections that we fund this is a contingency for I hope an extraordinary situation but in case those conditions do arise and senator Hammer was good to point out this is from this point forward we know we had some issues in the last couple years and so we look forward to in case the similar issues arise in the next fiscal year we have funding in place to cover hopefully all respect you you haven't covered it what I want to hear about is not I understand is moving forward but what I wanna hear about is the reasons the issues that you just referred to the issues that you've had. Who didn't get paid why weren't they paid. Are there bill sitting out there that haven't been paid give us some details about what brought this to this point. Center I'm not sure that I can give you line by line itemization of what. Ticket or cases I just was told by election officials that there have been problems in this area there's a very well publicized contention in Pulaski County between the county judge and the Clerk and the Election Commission and it's any time there's local officials that don't agree then there has to be some contingency someone has to make a decision on it in this case this is simply a bill we've already passed General Assembly spoken on this issue of how it should be dealt with this is simply the appropriation to fund it going forward not retroactively yeah again I I'm just not getting the answer and I and maybe it's you don't know I I just I will confess I don't know all the details I know the generalities but not to the thank you yes. Or let me do a little clarity on this is what this amendment does is allows the turned back this to go to that particular county to be hailed to pay for pay for the election bills is not an additional pool on top the county will and what we passed will if they do not follow procedures of the local Election Commission if somebody stepped in does it what it does is hold back turned back that they can't even get so the election bills can be paid that's right that's what this does is not additional money on top of but that's what this amendment does you have to be some to get some clarity and it yes and we've got other questions and Mister chairman I might add this is somewhat similar to what we've we've done with some community some some cities that have the founder misspent their their road turn back funds and we're we put a procedure in place to reclaim some of that if they don't. Take care of the responsibilities they have when they put the road funds in the general funds and misspent that is correct representative wouldn't need you've you've did you did you need to speak. You're recognized for a question Senator is and I think representative changes share that but as I read your bill this is a transfer from the chief fiscal officer I'll turn back mode that county was good anyway. Is that is that correct and I think the chairman kind of explain that better than I could representative would meet but this is only if there's they they didn't do ride on it then it can be with help through this but this is the appropriation that would cover that so hopefully procreation but does to track it would pursue or fall the money would be transferred by the chief fiscal officer Alan turned back but is that correct German. That's correct okay in is a port of information from a Mister chairman for the committee the personnel committee approve the need for the extra help in the event this occurs we approve that this morning and will report that to the committee of tomorrow but is extended. S. the six forty four covers what we're looking at here today is that contained in the appropriation for ten ninety one that is correct so so it's it's covered but is not any additional money. It is as chairman said this is not additional money has changed or is not be something that it the bottom line will will not be changed based on. Thank you Mr thank you will go back to senator Hammer you got a question. Yes Sir Mr I just want drill home the point two what was addressed well go in and correct me if I'm wrong Senator Johnson there's nothing we can do about any past events even though there is currently an ongoing investigation by the state board of election commissioners regarding election complaints that is yet to be completed that'll come out I think maybe the end of may or whenever they get it done is that correct that is correct and then the second thing on page two the bill under let or be it clearly states that this is just the transfer vehicle in the event that the Election Commission has to take over the election there's no new money it's existing money that would have otherwise been reimbursed to the county for the election expenses but now if we take over the election that money would go to the State Board who is actually going to run it is that that is absolutely correct thank you thank Mister and I might add that to again this is January one twenty twenty one beginning it starts there there's nothing retroactive even if there's a finding by the state board in the in the issue that you brought out center but this is strictly appropriation for the contingency that was defined clearly and and Senate bill six forty four all right Senator Elliot you're recognized for a question our sentence Johnson I'll ask both my questions at once that might speed things up one is I wanted to know did you speak to at the judges in these counties I'm sorry I'm sorry center and I apologize my hearing is not what it all right I'll get close thank you much okay eleven I want to know what the judges said when you spoke to them in these counties. what what who said the judge of that county judges because you said you spoke to county election officials there's got to be on the other side to whatever precipitated this so I wonder what the judges said. And the the other thing I'd like to know is what is in the bill that a reasonable mind would to conclude that folks might act in a way of not funding elections must be something the bill that would make us think that so could you just answer those two questions. Well first senator I didn't talk to all the judges I did speak to one county judge I thought talked in and to to election commissioners and I again I do not. At the time I had those conversations there was I was not as situation dealing with this legislation this amendment are this appropriation but that the issues that in the two counties that I mentioned were were different issues in one I think it was simply a a problem between The answer is for senate hander mention we funded the election new voting machines and there was an implementation issue and the county judge felt that the Election Commission had had spent too much of their of appropriation for that year in the first two months of the year and they were basically telling we're not going to pay anymore your bill so requests are not those are legitimate complaints I'm not gonna go back in and look at that because I only knew them from a thirty five thousand foot view I did not hold a hearing and get information from all parties involved however as is Senator Hammer alluded to in the other cases which is Pulaski County there is a pending complaint is being investigated by the election the state board of election commissioners so to say that I you know I know the answer to that I what await their decision but once again that doesn't affect anything on or before July first twenty twenty one which is in this bill this is just appropriation for FY twenty two. Senator Jeff feel you're recognized I move immediate consideration that we divide the body in roll call. Okay. The proper of let let the Senator finish on Amendment first. I've I think everything's been heard this is simple but we we passed we the General Assembly have passed a bill it's sitting on the governor's desk that will address going forward any issues and I'm not sitting as a as a judge on what is a legitimate issue what is not but when the proper authorities find problems then they will be handled under the provisions in in Senate bill six forty four that hopefully a few days will be low and this is simply the appropriation bill to back that up and to make sure that it's funded properly and as you said Mr chairman this doesn't add a penny to the the total amount of our state budget you wanna make a motion to pass on the amendment I move do pass I have a second. We have a second all right we're going to divide the chambers will start with the Senate ends its Senate sponsor would do a roll call vote. Senator Elliot. No Senator Chesterfield no Senator English. First option Senator Tucker. Senator Mark Johnson. Yes Senator Hammer. Yes Senator Irvin. Yes Senator Ingram. First alternate Senator Sturch. Senator Flippo. Senator Blake Johnson. Senator Wallace. Senator hill. Yes Senator Hendren. Yes Senator Hester. Yes Senator Eads. Yes Senator Davis. Yes Senator Ballinger. First alternate Senator Pitsch. Senator Leding. Yes Senator Teague. No. Senator flowers. First alternate senator garner. Senator sample. Senator Clark. Senator Stubblefield. Senator Hickey. Senator Rice. Yes Senator Bledsoe. Yes Senator Caldwell. Senator Rapert. Yes. All. Okay members who needed fifteen to pass a guy at twelve so you're members failed. All right we're going to The peer report Senator Hill. Lined up. Thank you Sir the peer reviewed subcommittee met on Tuesday April twentieth the approved various temporary appropriation request a restricted reserve fund transfer an appropriation and fundraiser request no items were hailed at the proper time I moved to adopt report or a motion up report we have a second. A second any discussion on the report all in favor say aye. Any opposed all right members will going to Adam city. Of this is we're just lay in this on the table we have to put it will one day this amendment of the transfer me want to go over. Senate bill seven oh to the companion bills house bill nineteen forty nine and that we have any questions if not we'll take this up to March whose to amend the RSA this suspend the rules tomorrow and pass the RSA out tomorrow at that's our hope from both the chairs low. transaction. Yes Sir. Yes Sir. Yeah yeah okay a brief overall summary you'll see the schedule item C. one this is the schedule for the actual amendment that is behind it. Per our rules and Joint Budget this has to be presented to the committee one day before it's voted on. So this is for informational purposes only this is the same schedule that was put on the desk. Last night of all the members in email to all the members as you can see it has all the general revenue fund and fund accounts it has four categories a B. C. and D. and as you know as monies come in a is funded first then B. then C. and then D. if our forecast is revised it cuts it cuts backwards it cuts the first and see right now the forecast we have fully funds all ABC Indy. And has a surplus of seventy million dollars but we are waiting to see what tax bills are passed to the session and that will affect that surplus Mr chairman that's a brief summary. read the prayer you have questions. Hold on just a second. Good morning of thank you Mister chair I ask my question was up on the report of B. two I guess you all didn't see me well I apologize no problem with your question okay I was looking at the report under item hi I had thought that of senator just to feel would inquire about these review of the professional consult consultant services contracts I see that we have a lot of contracts here and she usually ask not less this time is there a breakdown on minority and non minority yes to these contracts. Can I get staff you with you with we do have it we just don't have it up front of right now all right thank you we will do that I apologize I missed you. All right. All right any other questions. All right members we've got two bills are ready to come out mistranslated. Thank you Mr chairman in the House packet the H. in upper right hand corner house bill twelve oh eight is on page six. On page six you'll see twelve oh eight is the department of public safety. Okay members proper public safety do I have a motion. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion all in favor say aye opposed straight from Senate bill yes Sir that takes us to the Senate package to Senate bill sixty eight which is on page two. On page two Senate bill sixty eight is the Department of transformation and shared services. Okay members of emotional part of transformation of a motion and a second any discussion all in favor say aye opposed. As it members will be here tomorrow morning at eight thirty two pass out the RSA to get to the both. Of floors of the House and Senate for next week create good work we are adjourned.