ALC-Game & Fish/State Police
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- October 2, 2026
chair sees a quorum then meeting is called to
order thank you committee members first on today's agenda a matter of fact my cochair will be here in just a few minutes so we'll welcome her when she gets here but let's go ahead and get started with the committee meeting and first on the agenda today is reporting overview from the Arkansas game and fish director JohnRock if you would SeanRock if you would please have a seat at the table
and if you would sir if you would just identify identify yourself and your title for the committee we'd appreciate it if
Doug Shonerock
Unverified
1:26
you would turn your back on sir sir hear me now you my name is doug Shonerock. I'm the director
of the Arkansas Gam and Fish Commission. OK and director I appreciate you being here. I know you've got some of your
administration here with you and I appreciate y'all being here today to answer some questions and of course you and I have had we've had a few conversations
over the last few weeks especially concerning the Saint Francis sunken lands there on the WMA and I just think there's been a lot of misinformation out there concerning with you know the duck season approaching I think here in what the next456 days it's it's getting close so anyways I thought this would be a great opportunity for to have you here and I appreciate it to be able to clear up some of the information that concerning the rules and regulations and how
they're going to apply this year during the duck season it's my understanding and you correct me if I'm wrong but during our conversations you have said that there is no change in the rules or the regulations from last year's as it affects the Saint Francis sunken lands or any of our WEAs or waterways as the same rules that were in effect then are going to be
in effect this year is that correct that is correct sir. other than the fact that
Speaker 8
2:46
we are stepping up enforcement and will not tolerate any hunter
harassment. OK one follow up question before I let you make
your s statements regarding this is I know there's been no change in the rules or the regulations and and and you've just confirmed that and I appreciate it over the last several years I guess those same rules have been in effect. I know you're new at the job and you may not go back but I'm sure some of your staff members could has there been any change at all over the last several years in regards to
the rules as they apply to that particular area or anywhere across the
Speaker 10
3:27
state no sir no significant changes has there been
any has there been any change in the interpretation of those rules as has it changed from one year to the next as to what may be the rule actually the way it was interpreted has there been any any changes in that area you know interpretation of rules
Doug Shonerock
Unverified
3:45
is subject to the whims of the director I think in a lot
Speaker 8
3:48
of cases there may have been some sir but I'm not aware of any
ok if you would would you just kind of lay it out for the committee as to exactly and I know I know you've
been really involved in and like I said I know there's been a lot of misinformation out there concerning the blinds or the usage of boats hunting platforms and their blinds on this especially on the Saint Francis sunnken lands heir to WMA so could you just kind of lay it out exactly what we can expect and what the hunters can expect from that situation as it
Doug Shonerock
Unverified
4:26
exists now yes sir I would in fact I will read you four points to the letter that I gave direction to
Speaker 8
4:36
for enforcement and legal Point number one all regulations will remain in effect as were in effect last year for the 20242025 duck season. ber 2 for the 20252026 duck season we'll maintain the same position as last year we will continue to acknowledge the 208 MSL
contour line as the distinction between private lands and the lands of the state of Arkansas as we did during the 20242025 duck season this recognition includes the se8 acre accretion as private but does not include the islands that were the subject of the state versus Hatchicoon Hanging Fishing Club372 Arkansas547 in2008. Number three as was true last year, floating blinds on the navigable public waterway of the Saint
Francis River cannot be left unattended and number4 know hunter harassment will be tolerated and will be cited. ir Before I move
forward any questions from committee members at this point Representative Richardson you're
recognized for a question. Thank you Mr Chair. appreciate
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
5:53
it. so you've used that term twice and I'm just kind of curious what's your definition of hunter
Speaker 8
6:00
harassment would be Hunter harassment is defined I believe by our enforcement division by impeding another person's success and safety in water
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
6:12
foulling. So I let me give you a more specific if you can and so from a from a hunter perspective and I enjoy all of our state properties and and try to take advantages of many of those as I can during that season. one of the one of the things that often comes up is conversations or
heated discussions between various duck hunters over how far away that they're required to be in order to hunt. could you help would that be a part of that conversationir we don't
Speaker 8
6:41
have proximity rules for residing regulations in
Chair
Unverified
6:45
my opinion it is a safe distance we're fortunate to have very passionate impassioned water fowlers in the state of Arkansas and I welcome comments from all of them because we all share the same passion
when you hunt public land you're going to hear other calling you're gonna hear other noise, you're gonna hear other shots. that's unavoidable that could be considered harassment if it's300 yards away. in in my opinion our officers will direct hunter harassment as being unsafe, unsafe conditions for humankind sir. thank you Representativeoldridge you're
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
7:32
recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair and thank you director for being here. So we're talking about these I mean they're floating blinds right sir ok so it's my understanding I think Representative Tosh chairirman Tosh hit on this originally some blinds were removed from WMA's and other properties but now they're allowed to be there as long as they're occupied that's not a rule for at
Chair
Unverified
7:54
large WMA sure this is a navigable waterway and that's why those blinds are allowed to be there because it is a navigable
waterway and it's been that way sir since those blinds were burned in 201el pontoon boat started showing up that same fall so
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
8:12
to clarify this one more follow up Mr chair to clarify this what what are the rules surrounding these pontoon boats or floating blinds that are in the navigable waterway now do they have to have
Chair
Unverified
8:22
motors they have to be registered sir we are enforcing registration requirements and occupancy of those floating
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
8:27
blinds OK so if someone is on an occupied floating blind so let's just say for argument's sake
that someone's being paid or for whatever reason to stay out there so it's occupied and it's not the actual the person hunting would hunter harassment laws allow me to join those people and
Chair
Unverified
8:45
hunt the next morning I think that that's a conversation that hunters have to have amongst themselves there's no law that says you you have the right to do so. those those ryan excuse me those floating blinds are private property OK and to answer your other question sir yes they need to be occupied unattended as is
Speaker 26
9:06
the regulation for any personal equipment on a WMA thank you sir
Representative Wardlaw you're recognized for a question I
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
9:19
think my question'm over here in the corner he I think my question goes behind Represent representative Wwoolridge is the
unoccupied definition so I know in some of the other refuges it's everything has to be out by noon. I know that gets real hard when you're on navigable water because you can't close it down at noon
but I am a little worried about how the occupation of those takes place and whether somebody like he said is paid to stay there for 1el hours till the next person can show up and that holds that spot for those people. So on this refuge and I'm not as familiar with sunken lands I am and others. is there a4 a.m. rule there I don't believe so
Speaker 31
9:58
I'm gonna refer back to Joe just give me a head nod orri not in the navigable waterway
Speaker 35
10:08
sir. you may want to bring colonel to the table
Mr Chair if that's ok with you that's fine with mearnel if you would just come on up have a seat and identify yourself for the
Speaker 36
10:23
committee and you'll be recognized to answer the question.
Lieutenant Colonel Joe Williams Arkansas game and fish Donald
Speaker 37
10:28
you hearpresentative Wardlaug's question sir you recognize the answer Representative Wardlawug would be similar to Felsenthals that you're
Speaker 38
10:32
leaving the hunted area and you're going into the navigable stream and so we're not affecting the navigable
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
10:38
stream portion so like Wata River would
be off limits so they can have that blind on the river and someone could occupy it all day all night and purse the control ok so you said when you said down am misrector that you wasn't going mischairers this OK. yes you're recognized you were going to instruct enforcement to strongly discourage Hunter rassment in others said refuge around the state we're seeing a lot of blocking
and blocking is a term that I'll describe the the definition to so we understand each other. blockings where multiple hunters show up to hunt together and they spread out across the refuge to cause themselves to have a larger buffer zone between the next hunter and them how were your wardens better regulate or stop members of the public from blocking because it's a huge problem in certain refuges especially smaller ones I don't believe that it's a problem at this point in
Speaker 32
11:40
time on the area we're speaking of. I'm not familiar with the area've got you here today so we're talking about all of them today I believe it's 100% about safety I'm not sure if blocking is safe
Chair
Unverified
11:52
or not but if they're hunting in a party I don't believe there's a spatial agreement between individuals hunting in a party but I do believe that if that's a tactic that's being used I'm not familiar with that tactic but it should be addressedgred yes sir thank you Mr Cha.
thank you director let me make sure I understand the position for the gaming fish on holding those blinds someone that you know goes out there and they hold those blinds and they I think somebody alluded to this a while ago that to maybe just have someone spend the night there or or whatever the case do we really think that that gives them a to the public and unfair advantage on on public land for them to be able to do that to be able to every single day to be able to take that and be able to secure that spot
where say a dad and his son or daughter or whatever wanted to go there that morning and duck hunt. would that not place them at an unfair advantage to allow that I believe that's accurate
Speaker 28
12:54
sir I'm simply replicating what's been done in past years. OK, so how is
enforcement going to take place in regards to that to joe please p re s ent ative
Speaker 37
13:07
Tash that yil along the lines of this is that we're kind of in a conflict of we're in a navigable river and so if these people are telling
us that they're navigating that river by being on their boat and and being occupying it there's not much that we've got as far as enforcement you know there's nothing we have that restricts them from navigating the river if the river was a refuge and it wasn't deemed navigable the ball means we could block it off we could shut it off and consider it that but again it's no different than having
Speaker 51
13:36
a highway that goes through a national forest you know it's it's we can't stop the flow of traffic per
se and obviously being from up in that areaarnel you understand
that and being the chair of this committee I I've had several people reach out to me and you know was was concerns about already the number of blinds that are being put up there in in you know along the the river long private property close to private property and public and those blinds are already going up is that is that
allowable with a according to the law with with the game and fishc according to the law they need
Speaker 37
14:13
to be occupied as if they're navigating that
river if they're not occupied then they need to be removed and so we've had some conversations locally with the prosecutor's office about dude the prosecutor feel like we have the authority to hook onto that boat and drag it off and he heard some precaution into that reference to civil liability deeming that a judge could or could not find that person guilty even though it is a violation of the law and so what we have prepared is some notices actually to place on those blinds our officers were out there this morning we've determined that there's about 10 to12 lines we anticipate probably tomorrow that we'll have about6 that are not
currently manned and we'll be placing those notices on those what these notices entail is simply along the lines that we're gonna consider that line to be closed so a person is not gonna be able to hunt that and they need to contact us in order for it to be removed away from the area ok
and I I I missed just a little bit of that are you saying that when you when you're enforcement agents agents when they went out there this morning there was how many we we guessed
Speaker 54
15:20
that there's about 10 to12 blinds currently out there right now I know several were
Speaker 37
15:25
occupied but I think that then some communications that people are moving currently that today moving some of these blinds still we've had these conversations all through last week I know that several blinds were moving Friday Saturday I know I got an email yesterday referencing several blinds that had not been moved. Our enforcement officers were out there this morning making a patrol of the river and we've identified 10 to12 in from my understanding we anticipate about6 of those not being manned in the morning when we start
placing these notices on these unmanned blinds ok and when you say placing notices I understand that so right now you're just making them aware that
they needed to be be removed there's no enforcement action taken other than notification at this point has
Speaker 37
16:04
been a lot of miscommunication about the blinds and the placement of blinds and so again we're trying to give everybody notice that the blinds cannot be unmanned if you're navigating the river you navigate the river but for the purpose of setting up a blind to hunt out of it and not occupying it you will be sighted
ok and I guess at some point your enforcement
officers will go back and and revisit this area and if
those blinds are still there then you're I'm you're gonna take necessary enforcement action or what's your plan for that so our plans are when
Speaker 49
16:32
these these notices are placed tomorrow is the intention to start placing
Speaker 37
16:36
these notices on any unmanned blind at that point that blind is going to be considered a rest area per se so you're not going to be allowed to hunt out of it so if we can't get a hold of somebody Wednesday hurda Friday and they show up Saturday morning their blind is off limits we have a number on here for them to contact the gaming fish and
Speaker 57
16:54
enforcement officer will be in contact to cite them
for such violation OKy thank you for that answer colonel I appreciate that answer too so senator Sullivan you're recognized for a question. Thank
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
17:09
you Mr Chair and I appreciate you let me ask a question not on the committee just wanna make sure I understand that what what is determined navigable and non navigable if you're saying if people are navigating the river then they can set up a blind if it's
they're not navigating the river they can't so what
Speaker 49
17:30
is the determination there from an enforcement perspective navigability is a very gray area whypresentative Ordlaw would
Speaker 37
17:35
know that on Felsenthal that a guy can't be out there before4 a.m. duck hunting but there are no regulations that prohibits anybody from being on the refuge for the purposes of fishing so it it creates quite the it creates quite the hurdle for an enforcement officer to prove this and so that's what I'm
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
17:53
asking how do you how if you're going to enforce it because I
think enforcement is the key to this and I understand it's hard so how will you interpret that if you're fishing you're ok if you're hunting you're not. how do you interpret whether they're navigating the river or not I would simply say that's
Speaker 54
18:09
a case by case determination talking with that person that may be on that vessel obviously one that is not occupied
Speaker 37
18:15
is there for the purposes of duck hunting and so that's pretty simple but again if a person tells us that he's out there to spend the night and he plans on navigating it it's a significant hurdle so it's not an easy answer I don't
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
18:28
have a simple well I would thank you if you have officers out there enforcing it that there would be some training going on from the agency this is how you determine if they're compliant or not compliant are you training your officers along those lines not reference to
Speaker 66
18:43
this situation but certainly we'll be glad to do that that I guess
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
18:48
that assume that means you're gonna start that very soon yes sir ok I guess all the follow up question Mr chairir if you're ok
you're recognized thank you the the enforcement it seems like the key to this so you know people are they for example your notice is being put on there that I hear you write that if they put the notice on there how long will it be before you actually remove the blind. what the prosecutors simply said is allowed
Speaker 37
19:19
them to contact us and allow them the opportunity to remove it themselves. Now again once this notice is placed they can'thound none of it but his his concern is reference to
civil liability of damaging some type of equipment. some of these blinds are not a fourteenfoot jo boat with 25 horse. some of these things that are are placed on pontoons it could be $90,000. and we don't have a tow company for say that can come and get us there's a little bit of water issue right now the only thing that our enforcement officers have is basically a35
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
19:51
horsepower mud motor to get up and down that river the thank you for that answer the again I'm just concerned and we we hear
this in multiple venues that that we ask a prosecutor to give their advice you know your agency is in charge of of doing what you can do and if your rule say we're going to ticket someone or find them or whatever whatever your rule says. I don't then it's up to the prosecutor to determine whether they prosecute or not and I'm sometimes concerned that we hold up following through with our
enforcement rules because the prosecutor says I'm not going to prosecute it that's their job. your job if they're do a ticket and they're not following the law your job is to give them the ticket regardless of what the prosecutor says
would you agree with that sir ok thank you Mr Chair. thank you senator follow up on senator's question right quick I hear the terminology navigating navigating how is how
does that if someone has got it tied up how's that navigating the river if that if if it's tied up I mean they're not navigating it's it's there looks like permanent so at the point if
Speaker 37
21:10
they start mooring to things and and attaching the property that's a much different issue we have some leverage there on that deal but you know if a guy is just again floating the river or or passing through for say or not hooked off to anything then it presents challenges but yes mooring to trees mooring to land very easy to to prove that that person is not navigating
ok so that that falls under a separate statute is that what you're telling me colonel that that gives you another leverage of enforcement if they're tied up and they're not navigating is that an entirely different issue or are we on the same
Speaker 37
21:45
issue here I think we're on the same issues related to this you know again I I would point out that if you use somebody along the lines of stopping and spending the overnight on the buffalo river you know there there's no regulations that prohibit them from stopping and tying up all night but again for the purposes of what we're talking about in relation to how do we determine
what this person is doing I'd go back to they're in a a blind that's set up to obviously hunt out of for duck hunting purposes do they have gear inside of that for duck hunting purposes and so again building that case and and making those layers to determine what that person's intentions are thank you cochairs
here and uhm glad she's here with me thank you so you're recognized for a question you thank you for your report so and I could have missed this but
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
22:38
um, how many miles are we talking about or what's the distance here of the of the river between the hatcheeoonriva huntinglub and the Saint Francisint Francis sunnken
Speaker 8
22:52
lands WMA. the property in question the separation and distance between the physical boundaries of the wildlife management area across the navigable waterway to the
private land ranges from75 to300 yards. the length of that property probably is a span I'm not that familiar I'm just going to estimate it and I was there a couple of weeks ago probably probably talking about a mile half mile,37 of a mile to a mile of stretch of that nag navigable river pretty small
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
23:28
area so it's a pretty small area but because it's this definition you're seeing a lot of it it seems to be that
Speaker 8
23:38
there's a extremely rich heritage of water fowling in that area. both public and private the the the mandate from the corps of Engineers based on the oakamic oakonic damm is to maintain a a 210mSl level which we do we expand that during hunting season to expand water into the Saint Francis sunken lands which is a large water waterfowl management area.
when that occurs the public land hunters tend to diffuse into area that now has water on it but we also have to be careful that you don't overflood it because then it starts encroaching on private property as well and so it it is always controversial early and it is as picturesque as a water falling area as you can imagine it's huge cypress trees slowmo water but it's too deep to stand and wade in most cases or the or the bottoms too so that's why they
Chair
Unverified
24:41
have been pontoon blinds put in there ever since the blinds
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
24:45
were burned in 201el. and so but you can anchor I mean you can drop an anchor so to speak too and you're still considered navigating the river. correct? I mean if I'm fishing on a pontoon boat and I drop an anchor I mean
Speaker 92
25:02
still navigating that is correct mhm so I just think
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
25:05
we have to be really conscientious of
enforcing it but also understand that this is a very like you said gray area. so it's going to be dicey for your law enforcement officers, I think, and how you define that you know if you tie up to a rock on the gooseerrylake. I'm still navigating that lake. so I just I just think this is
going to be super tricky but Id I appreciate the attention and the understanding of where we are and what's happening. I think it's really critical critically important to talk about this so that
the public understands very clearly what is happening why it's happening and what is permissible and what is not permissible my last question is uh, even if the my understanding is whether or not if you have a motor
are your law enforcement officers uh, does the motor have to work or not because you can be in a canoe and still navigate without a motor and with paddles. so great question senator simply along the lines
Speaker 37
26:27
is if an officer sees someone motoring that that vessel is required regardless of horsepower restrictions to have registration but again if you're floating down the white river if you're floating down the buffalo river and you don't have your motor active and they're just floating then there's no requirement for that to be to be
registered there's an assumption that you may be using it but the burden of proof would be on the officer to prove that you are
Speaker 8
26:52
in fact utilizing that motor and there are signages throughout the area of a paddle trail knack of a water paddle trail there are signs posted on trees for that so at certain times of year there are a lot of paddlers in that area. thank you thank you cochair. and
I appreciate your comments because that's why we're having this meeting today there's so
much misinformation and it's good to get it out and in the open so everybody understands exactly what to expect is here when even before duck season starts we need to know but director and colonel many of these structures that are on these waterways on public waters they're unregistered boats so how's your
enforcement how's that been handled by your agency? Representative
Speaker 37
27:43
simply along the lines of what senator Irvin
just said if an officer witnesses that person motoring or using that if the boat does not have registration on it or they can't prove that they just p persed it it within the last 30 days then that person would be issued a warning or a citation for operating a vessel
without boat registration. and I know this may be a tough question would you have any idea how many citations have been issued especially in that area in the last 30 days no sir I I could not give you any information I'm
Speaker 54
28:18
sorry thought that'd be a tough should have should have come prepared for that great question again I'm just
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
28:28
curious ok Representative Warridge you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairir and thank you director and colonel again for being here. So I kind of wanted to follow up on Senator Sullivan's question and Senator Irvin's question about navigable waterways and a boat a boat being navigable so if some of these structures are being moored or tied up for60 days? Are they navigating this waterway?
Speaker 37
28:51
ir I would say that no they're not navigating the water a question that comes into this is if you take something a body of water such as Lake Wahita Lake Hamilton Lake uhriseerry they're they're pulling into some of these bays and they're mooring these things off and so you know again what's what's the definition of navigability when it comes to that type of procedure for the purpose of what we're talking about today I feel like the intentions of somebody pulling up there with something that looks like a duck line is simply for the purposes of trying to duck hunt out of it
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
29:25
so I guess I didn't do a good job of asking my question what would the consequence be of that so if you have an officer that responds to one of these structures and then they're back two weeks later and it's moored to the same tree, same issue. I mean have they violated the law or not? I think we need to have an officer following up with
Speaker 37
29:43
them to determine what their intentions are you know again if somebody's more to a place and their motors broke down and they don't have a way to get it out of there obviously I wouldn't want a warden writing a ticket for that
Speaker 57
29:56
but again if your intention is to hold a spot and they have
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
30:00
nobody in it then I would say let's issue a citation OK one more follow up on the paper that we were handed it talks about a class one felony or a class one violation. what is a class one violation and how severe is that in
Speaker 38
30:13
terms of a punishment for Arkansas game and fish purposes each county that would be a $100 fine Each county
Speaker 37
30:19
has its own court call so I don't know what points that is but maybe it's $120 which is a fairly consistent number $220
fine altogether six point violation against your hunting fishing privileges does not put you out of anything but obviously starts putting you on the path to a suspension if you accumulate 18 points in a five year period
OK thank you sir thank you
Speaker 106
30:47
Mr Cha. Senator Johnson you're recognized for a question just a matter of jurisdiction whenever we're talking about navigable waterways does the state have jurisdiction on a regular high
water marks and a low water below the high water marks to fed feds have jurisdiction where is y'all your jurisdiction lie and the feds take over and will you have people federal officers with you whenever whenever you go to this because if it's below the water mark I So this will get kind of complicated and
Speaker 37
31:21
explaining but I'll try to do the best that I can sir along the lines of this is that all the regulations that we
enforce on navigable waterways falling underitle 27 state laws and so we have laws that reciprocate to state waterways and then we have laws that c reciprocate to federal waterways so takereoseberry Lake for example that that's considered a federal waterway we have statute 2 or statutory authority as law enforcement to go out there and operate under Title 27 when we start talking about deeming something navigable I think that that comes in two ways in Arkansas mostly through a court case but the
corps of engineers is in my opinion probably the primary federal agency that can determine federal navigability coast guard the courts and things along those lines can get involved as well but again as far as us being able to go out anything that we would write pertaining to voting law would be under Title 27. a lot of the regulations that we're talking about today are gonna be considered WMA regulations connected to Saint Franci's sunken lands under AFC authority. I was just trying to while the
Speaker 106
32:31
discussion was happening trying to go through it and everything
Speaker 107
32:34
below those regular high water marks is federal jurisdiction great again I think that it gets a
Speaker 37
32:42
little bit blurred with the fact that title 27 allows us to go on these navigable waterways and enforce boating laws we're one of the very few state agencies that I say where the game and fish operates a lot of times the state police has a water patrol and they go out and perform
safety functions again we're trying to get people that are operating recklessly people that they're operating under the influence of alcohol may have drugs here at theamingish does that and again we're doing that on the statute statutory authority of Title 27 that the legislator has provided us thank you Senator Sullivan you're recognized for a question thank you
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
33:25
Mr chairir. my question would be to the chair could you ask the
gentleman and you know there's been a lot of ambiguity things that are hard to determine and there's a statement made by the the general the gentleman that they would start training could they send you a copy of the of the committee a copy of the the training points they're going to make before the beginning of
Speaker 65
33:49
hunting season Saturday. Maybe they could send those to you it seems like it's a communication thing would y'all be
able to get that information to us in a timely
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
34:04
manner ok if you would and also Mr Cha what the definition of what navigate navigable waters and how that will be enforced mean we can't expect the local officers to enforce the law until there's some guidance given from the agency and maybe
Speaker 62
34:20
also the lastly the number of citations in the last 30 days. so The rector carlos you
y'all understand that request and is that one you can comply with
Speaker 100
34:34
point of clarification I'm assuming we're talking specifically for that body of water not altations for the ok thank you ok and
if you would get that information to Zane and he'll make sure that gets distributed out to each committee member so thank you for that senator do you have a follow up Representativealubby you're recognized for
a question thank you Mr Chair. I'm over here far to your right
Representative Carol Dalby
Unverified
35:05
in regard to the class one violation. I heard your testimony was $100 fine plus court costs but has that changed from what a class one that has typically been which is 100 to1000 dollars fine and 0 to30 days in jail isn't that really what the fine is for a class one violation yes ma'am and I apologize I always it's
Speaker 37
35:26
a it's an enforcement officer out in the field perspective that I used there I'm sorry I didn't get the
range of that but that would be correct that a minimum fine would be $100. all of our officers in and 99% of the cases are instructed to write a minimum fine outside of some
Representative Carol Dalby
Unverified
35:47
adjugent circumstance but follow up but that that goes before the district court correct and so really whether your officer writes a100 dollars fine the court could say $1000 fine and sentence them to30 days in jail so we're not talking about just a a little slap on the wrist correct for a class one ok thank you
seeing no further questions from committee members appreciate y'all being here let me let me close with this one final question
I'm just curious what what is what is your big picture as far as are your thoughts on conservation and safety not not only for the Saint Francis you know sunken lands but also for all of our WA's around the state just kind of give me your big picture on what what you plan to do as far as the safety and conservation of those areas sir
Speaker 8
36:46
number one for all WMAs safety is our top concern. 2 is providing opportunity to public and private in a safe manner
Speaker 9
36:55
and making sure that the habitat is there for them to have
some degree of success. OK thank you director and I appreciate y'all being here
today thank you for hopefully clearing up some of the misinformation that's been out there and I'm sure y'all are going to address how that misinformation got out there but this is it's kind of this is
what it's led to so I thank you for your attention to this matter and yes my coach here has if you have
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
37:25
a comment just made me reckon Thank you I think it's really really also very very important that hunters do not take these matters into their own hands. That I mean we you you can get into a serious situation and I think back to
what Representative Wardlaw was talking about with the blocking and things like that. I mean
at some you know we we have to communicate about these things very clearly so that we do preserve the ability for the public to hunt these important lands that taxpayers pay a lot of money to you know cultivate and so I get real concerned whenever we start talking about an I see videos you know that are go viral of you know people running over each other in boats and
rushing to get out to their spots so I think you know at some point I mean everybody is a passionate duck hunter I am too but we've we've got to make sure that the that the message is very clear not to take these matters into your own hands and try to destroy something that's not yours whether it's supposed to be there or not supposed to be there. I just I want to make sure we say that clearly for
the public. thank you cochair. Also on following up on that and we'll
close with this what are your enforcement
plans I know you said you were gonna beef up enforcement for that area you know it's kind of a hot button topic up there in that area right now and you've said you're gonna increase your enforcement so it kind of laid that out I mean are you gonna send more officers in or or what are your plans as far as helping control that situation Representative
Speaker 37
39:14
Tash the intentions are tomorrow morning to again identify what blinds are left at this moment that are unattended get those things
labeled get them put out there our officers obviously want to have a larger presence going into the weekend again it increasing officers presence for Friday and Saturday morning specifically related to these things I think once these blinds are labeled I think the phone calls will pick up I think there will be some movement related to that but again the last thing that we want is somebody having a fight out there Saturday morning. thank both of you thank you for
your answers today thank you for your attention to this matter and appreciate you being here you're excused
Committee members next on today's agenda is the we have the Arkansas State Department of Parks and Heritage and tourism here and the attorney general's office to discuss our state parks and the question I think we're looking for today or hopefully get an answer to is whether or not firearms can be carried on our state parks so if you would gentlemen and ladies just have a seat at the table and
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
40:35
to something else members of the committee as they are coming to the table. I just need to be able to read this statement the Washington County circuit court issued a gag order on august 28,2025 prohibiting certain law enforcement agencies including Arkansas Department of Parks, Heritage and tourism from making any public statements regarding anything that touches on the evidence concerning the
incident at Devil's De State Park. Thank you. cochair and you know and we understand that we know you you can't really discuss any of that that's what we told Colonel Hager when he was here with the state police going over that situation we know we're not privy to some of those that information parts of that investigation and this committee understands and we appreciate that but today if you would just go ahead and identify yourself for the committee and then we'll get started. marty yle I'm the director of Letlative affairs for the
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
41:36
department of Parks heritage and tourism. Mike Wilson assistant director of Arkansas
Speaker 125
41:45
State Parks. Kelly Summerside deputy attorney general for theins in foia division at the AG's office.
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
41:51
Justinhughes assistant attorney general at theins and foia division of the attorney general's office. Justson Brasher
Speaker 128
41:58
senior assistant Ag with the intergovernmental affairs division of the AG's office. thank you for being here today
and we appreciate you taking the time to appear before this
committee and the question at hand is simply this you know we heard from Colonel Hager some time ago in regards to the situation and we're not going to bring that up today but what what the inquiries have been and what the answers we're looking for is whether or not in our state parks an individual can carry a firearm. Is there signage? Is it prohibited? Is it allowed? I think we need to have a discussion about that and that's what we're fixing to have
so if you would ever who wants to go from that question and start answering
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
42:45
we're ready oh yes sir I appreciate the opportunity to speak to this group currently as it relates to carrying a firearm or handgun on Arkansas state parks we follow the the current Arkansas statute with concealed and also enhanced carry we follow that direction sir ok so is the answer to that
my question is that a yes it is a
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
43:10
yes with an exception to federal property or leases on corps of Engineer properties which doesn't allow the carry of a firearm without a permit for the from the corps of
engineers yes there's a difference in state and in federal so but on our state property there's no signage up or anything that says firearms prohibited or or is there only as
Speaker 134
43:30
it relates to enhanced carried entering certain buildings on state property as identified in the law sir.
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
43:42
anyone else at the tablehughes can clarify that thank you our office issued an opinion on Fridayin number 2025031. That opinion deals with municipal parks but there is significant overlap with state parks and so the answer to that to the question whether you can carry a firearm in state parks is yes we agree with state parks that absent you know carrying a firearm to federal land like US corporate engineers land you are allowed to carry
Speaker 53
44:16
I make I'm sorry let me make sure I understand you're saying on federal land
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
44:22
sayy that again. No, no, no excuse me, let me clarify for for state parks you are allowed to carry either openly or concealed within the park and as state parks has indicated there's a prohibition on carrying within state buildings you cannot do that with a normal concealed carry license but you can with an enhanced
license. and on federal parks make sure we
all are clear on the as you you said something abouted parks so it's prohibited under federal
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
44:56
law is that correct so Arkansas law prohibits carrying of a fire firearm anywhere where it is prohibited by federal law. So for example with US Army Corps of engineers property would not be able to carry on that property even if it is within a state park just to clarify we have5 state
Marty Ryall
Unverified
45:20
cops of engineering lands they are bull shoals Lake Wasatta therey lake Resort State Park, Lake Dardanelle State Park and Millwood State Park all those fall under the US corps lands all the other state parks out there the47 other state parks are are
state lands OK just to help to help me understand so the47 state parks it's not prohibited but are you
saying under the five that's under the core there's a a different set of rules for that because it's federal is that correct sir
Chair
Unverified
46:05
Representative Gonzalez you're recognized for a question. Thank chair. Mr. Director, you mentioned that you you follow the the concealed carry law when allowing to carry in state park work constitutional carry state so what about someone who is carrying without that permit are they still allowed in those state parks understand the buildings and federal and all that's different. I'm talking about the others other state parks yes sir we
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
46:29
we are allowing that carry sir with the exception of those federal as long
as the intent and there's no
crime associated with it. excuse me centralized you recognize thank you Mr chairir. thank y'all for being here today the attorney general staff would a minute ago you mentioned municipal with except municipal could you
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
46:59
define what you were stating there thank you for that question I was stating that the opinion that our office issued on Friday dealt with municipal parks in that opinion it states that you can also carry in those parks specifically you can open carry in those parks you can can still carry both with a regular license and an enhanced license with the exception of athletic events and I'm happy to get into
that exception but in terms of municipal
parks that's what I was referring to. and just just for clarity Mr chairir for public consumption I have not read that that you put out Friday I checked with our staff today and the agenda for the meeting which it does agenda changes the the meeting notice was put out November6th for this meeting today the agenda was put out
he said roughly midday Thursday the 13th and if for our citizens who like to participate sometimes in these discussions if you ever go on if if you've already left home Thursday and the agenda's posted and you don't know about it till Thursday night you can't go into your employer in Friday morning say I'm gonna take off Monday
I need to be down in LittleRock. this is what concerns me sometimes to have
citizens input if we could do it a little better job at least if the agenda's gonna
change put out something that the public knows what we're going to be discussing and sometimes they can change their their daily routine or maybe get off so I appreciate your answers and I'll be glad to listen thank you the chairs for your recogn me. Senator Johnson
Mark dont you recognized for a question thank you Mr Chairman this in the immortal
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
49:03
words of one of our late governors opens up a whole
box of Pandoras. I'm just not sure how to sort all this out but first let me if I could go to our friends with theagG's office about the recent opinion which I haven't had a chance to read but my understanding of what you said is that any municipal restriction on carrying in a park has been struck down or or the opinion of the agG is that it's it's not applicable based on both state statutes and the the the
constitutional carry requirement amm I
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
49:48
hearing that correctly Essentially, Senator, what the opinion states is that in 2021 as you're probably well aware there were several amendments to ACA573122 that removed state or municipal parks from their definition of facility
after those were removed open carry is allowed in municipal parks however there's still a prohibition in573306 regarding those with a concealed carry license from having a concealed carry weapon if they have the regular concealed carrier license at an athletic event however with an enhanced carry license you are allowed to carry at an athletic event so this opinion dealt specifically with
the ability to carry at municipal parks during athletic events and there was another question about whether you could carry in a building in a municipal park and that has not changed you cannot carry within a building in a municipal park unless you have the enhanced license. OK
Speaker 155
51:00
and I'm gonna and I'm not trying to go down a rathole
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
51:04
here but I think you'll follow where I'm I'm going there is a city which just happened to be sitting in right now and has a it has a zoo
and when you pass the the zoo there is a sign that prohibits carrying any firearm and it ends it by saying by order of the city manager and I have always taken offense to that because I didn't realize that city managers were able to promulgate laws but in any event that's that's what the sign says at the LittleRock zoo Now if you go to the zoo and you're carrying and you don't go into any of the buildings you
just walk around the outside exhibits and and look at the animals would you be in violation of any statute what what would be the status of an individual that was
Speaker 157
52:03
doing that Senator one I would say I'm not sure of the status of the of of how the LittleRock zoomorial Park so
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
52:11
that that that helps clarify it and may not but if it just in case I
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
52:18
want to add that thank you senator. we want to stick to the bounds of our opinion. we haven't looked specifically at the zoo itself and if there's an opinion request to look at the zoo we'd
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
52:31
be happy to do that. I could consider doing that OK thank you and and one I have mis if I could Mr Chairman I have for our parks people and for for Mr. Ryle I have one further question thank you marty you mentioned the the the and I'm gonna use degrey as a
good example it's a it's a federal like that Arkansas state parks has facility there and there are different exceptions to that but if I for example had a a house boat in the marina at degrerey would I lose my2cond amendment rights because I was on a federal funded lake or what
would that be since I'm staying on my own boat at the greylake
Speaker 160
53:26
Mike do you know the answer to that? yes sir we don't
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
53:30
manage the lake as far as on you know the houseboats that would be the corps of engineering federal navigable waterway so it'd be up
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
53:41
to the core and not I'm I'm not talking about being in the lodge. The lodge is different it's a building and it
is kind of get that but you know when you're you're on your own boat or in your own car and in your own home so to speak and in many cases some of these boats are bigger than a house and qualifies as a second home under a lot of federal laws I'm just trying to where do my rights where are my rights abrogated was my question and I think your answer is you're not sure and I'm certainly not sure either so tell me if I'm we're not hearing that correctly yes sir it'd be
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
54:21
at the discretion of the corps our our boundary ends at408 the watermark or our
Speaker 164
54:26
lease stops right that's that that part I do understand thank you thank you Mr
Chair
Unverified
54:33
chairman you're welcome Representative Richardson Scott, you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairir so this probably runs back to our friends from the
Scott Richardson
Unverified
54:41
AG's office and if you could indulge me just for a second you've used the term multiple times especially when we're talking about the the municipal parks you've you've
specifically referenced the permit carry I want to know if the opinion approaches unpermitted carriers in any way and if there is any specific approach to how they would be regulated in that particular environment can they can they not carry according to the agG in a municipal
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
55:17
park yes the opinion does touch on that and unpermitted carriers
whether they're carrying openly or concealed or permitted to carry in a municipal park according to this opinion. thank you
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
55:35
I think that what they were saying about the permits is within buildings so I I just want to make sure we understand that's within buildings. you're not so could you just restate that we're not talking about open air park we're talking about a state building is where
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
55:54
the permits come into play, correct? so for that clarification, no you were not permitted to carry an estate building unless you have an enhanced concealed carry license
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
56:06
but whether you have a permit or not you can carry in a state park as long as it's not inside of a building. that is correct thank
Representative Johnny Rye
Unverified
56:20
you senator Representative Rye you're recognized for a question yes sir thank you Mr Chair. Question
for you Mark Twain forrest which is very it's either in Arkansas just a
little bit or not but if it is is that federal property? it's not Arkansas
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
56:40
state park property sir so I'm not sure whose property that is it's close in yes sir it's close but it's not part of us thank you
Senator rice you have another question do either
one of you know go to parks first are there exceptions where people can ask permission to be able to carry within a state owned building and without enhanced Do you know of any I am not aware of any
Speaker 157
57:32
Was this question in reference to a municipal
park or a state park? could be yes'm I'm just asking a general question is there an exception if somebody asked
Speaker 180
57:44
from an authority over that facility if they can carry
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
57:59
an exception yes sir we have had visitors
come to our overnight accommodations and we just we appreciate them approaching us with that and we try to
Speaker 135
58:08
make accommodations with the the weapon locked and in an unloaded sir and I
mean the reason I'm asking you do have people that are traveling and they stop and spend money in our parks they're not gonna travel if if they believe in 2cond amendment and protection they're gonna have it with them and they'd rather not leave it in their car or automobile and to be able
to do that and and it to me it makes sense if they can ask can can we do this and it's done responsible way so there are some reasons for some exceptions and again like you said you appreciate people being open about that
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
58:47
yes sir we make every attempt to make accommodations seeing
no further questions from committee members coach chair do
you have any closing comment thank y'all for being here today seeing no further business
Unknown speaker
59:04
before this committee this committee is meeting is adjourned
Agenda
A. Call to Order
B. Comments by Co-Chairs
C. Director’s Report and Overview of Duck Season
D. Discussion of Concealed Handgun Carry Laws in Arkansas State Parks
E. Other Business
F. Adjournment
Documents
| Title | Type | Pages | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Agenda — ALC - GAME & FISH/STATE POLICE, Nov 17, 2025 | Agenda | 1 | Official source ↗ |
Speakers
Representative Dwight Tosh Chair
Unverified
Doug Shonerock
Unverified
Speaker 8
Speaker 10
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
Chair
Unverified
Representative Jeremy Wooldridge
Unverified
Speaker 26
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
Speaker 31
Speaker 35
Speaker 36
Speaker 37
Speaker 38
Speaker 32
Speaker 28
Speaker 51
Speaker 54
Speaker 49
Speaker 57
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
Speaker 66
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
Speaker 92
Speaker 106
Speaker 107
Speaker 65
Speaker 62
Speaker 100
Representative Carol Dalby
Unverified
Speaker 9
Representative Justin Gonzales
Unverified
Speaker 125
Speaker 128
Speaker 134
Speaker 53
Speaker 140
Marty Ryall
Unverified
Senator Terry Rice Chair
Unverified
Senator Mark Johnson
Unverified
Speaker 155
Speaker 157
Speaker 42
Speaker 160
Speaker 164
Scott Richardson
Unverified
Representative Johnny Rye
Unverified
Speaker 180
Speaker 135