Public Health, Welfare and Labor Committee- House

So committee members we don't have a lot of time of as you probably know. state agency is going to reconvene at six o'clock. We can't go beyond that. so we're going to get right into the bills here we have two bills to consider today. we have a number of people that have signed up. to speak on the bills. So we're gonna start with the H. B. nineteen seventy two representative Brian. You're recognized to present your bill. Do we have copies of the bills. Okay. Are we getting copies our topics. Okay members we don't have hard copies of the bill it is on. There's two bills house bill nineteen seventy two and house bill nineteen seventy three. Is there anyone that does not have a copy or electronic copy. Just a minute we're gonna try to get some paper because. I do have a couple of extra copies of peer somebody needs and. We're trying to get some more may. Of. Who needs a copy. Raise your hand a copy anybody. Anybody we on this I need to come up with a hard copy. Okay representative Brian you're recognized to present HB nineteen seventy two. Thank you Mr chair thank you Committee first let me start off by saying aye I think it's wonderful that we are able to hear of these bills to at least start the debate on issue that has affected so many districts across the state including mine of north is Arkansas has the unique. Opportunity to have lots of fortune five hundred businesses in the area so while that is a blessing one of the things that creates is a somewhat of a corporate oligarchy for our area so I. My constituent base is made up of. Michael are professionals who live on the lake all the way through down to support industries for these for these corporations and while they enjoy their employment they work through the cover nineteen pandemic they're faced with a new challenge of accepting something to put in their bodies that they don't feel comfortable with. Or it risks termination so the reason I got involved with this is the first time I got the call I thought well that's that's business. as a as a conservative I don't want X. regulations on business I think my my work history in my voting record would would ideally support that statement. But what it came down to it is the businesses were plane fare. They were we will bring her out encouraging Hey you need to go get exemptions there's title nine exemptions for this issue. Go ask for religious combination glass from medical medical accommodations and and have those conversations with their employer. And so they did that. And the whole time there they are just getting badgered to get the vaccine they're getting threatened to be immediately fired every employer tried a different tactic with employees and it wasn't just my constituents that was several of you have contacted me house members and Senate members to discuss what these employer doing for tactics to get vaccinated. Now I can understand if they're if they're just using these tactics we didn't know once the once that final hour drops in the hammer hit we still don't know because a lot of these dates or not till October first which is Friday. What that means for the employees therefore it's easy for the hospitals to say we haven't part anybody as probably true they have nonetheless I still have nurses and doctors today several probably testify there still have the threat of the job. So what I found out is is these employees would are honoring several is titled nine exemptions. They say you are you are approved for religious accommodation. I think we heard from testimony during the interim that even though they were approved. They were given an immediate suspension of all up to one year non paid. In the in the event that changed her mind and decided to accept the vaccination they could reapply for their jobs or the event the company changed our policy. They may get a call back and not take their job that they lost the taking of a lower paying job when it came down to well if you get your if you lose your job of plenty of jobs in the market just go find you one you know that you have a a twenty eight year quality assurance chicken inspector Senate agree I'll I'll start back at the bottom again you know I lose all my pension I lose everything I got that I worked a bill for twenty eight years. To be back making you know minimum wage maybe a little better to try to support a family of which we have had a great income for the last ten years because I worked hard for this company to get it. You have that challenge with he's like and by the way. One of the programmers that work in an office setting gets to keep his job because they can't lose him. So. How is that fair and then by the way the federal worker he stands right beside me is to keep his job because the federal government gave him a commendation to to allow him to test weekly and wear a mask so the reason I ask that this night house bill nineteen seventy two is attractive to me is it possibly gives more standardization to the businesses that are so loose with their combination strategy. Again I think what we're faced with this we don't want regulation on businesses but we want to allow personal freedoms and liberty so when those two come together and meet you just have to step on one side of the fence the fence I'm stepping off of any two is is the site of personal. Liberty. And I don't think our our founders decided that personal liberty trumps corporate so what we've done is we've given corporate. America liability protections so if if a condition of employment is given to an employee and the employee is injured performing that condition of employment the employer is liable employer can say go to your Shaver had both a state there had as a condition of employment and they get a fungal infection there's a liability protections workers comp there's avenues if they get that shot at which they are truly fearful of. Then there is no protections. The the federal protection of of accession Act of nineteen eighty six I believe for their government exempts liability for manufacturers and then our our own rulings through the. Care's actor other acts out of Congress says you're not liable even if you put your own process vaccination clinic on your grounds and give your employees that way so we basically allow corporate America to become a state actor in pushing vaccines so what this bill does is says if you decide to do that if you decide to push a vaccine mandate what we want you to also allow provider couldn't basic consistency. Two. Provide a negative test as an alternative negative managing test or a T. cell test to prove that there is basically protections within that that member that poor E. that mere arrival. A vaccination status because there's still too many questions on this vaccination are still too much information not yet gathered on this vaccination determine the effectiveness so if if the federal government says they were doing boosters now so that means every a month simply has to get a booster to keep their employment. Old male A. B. when does it end. This bill also has a sunset date so at the end of July twenty twenty three after the ninety fourth general session. We're able to determine which gives us plenty of time used to determine. We have the data we need to support maybe keep this in place for a it's been long enough as they probably should have been determined if the vaccines you know where they fall because if you look at the bears that of the vaccine injury rates they're there are over fifteen thousand S. which you might look at the scheme of things is that over a million plus vaccinations is is it worth it well considering other vaccines just you know a couple couple this. I had reason to return basically recall look at it I think there's just cause to say we need to protect our citizens and allow them to keep employment not lose our personal liability and just you know ask employers to do these basic things to keep them on the payroll. M.. Couple other questions that probably came up on this is what about funding you know what if the federal government pushes out funding and they will allow you to take this money because you're not allowing vaccinations what we don't know the answer to that there is no rules for CMS guidance of funding when that does occur there's several other states that already implemented their own push back on the vaccine mandates so I imagine a go to litigation I imagine it'll take time to figure it out and we'll just be another state that needs to to figure out you know what we're going to allow the federal government to push into versus what we need to push back on. The cost of these as seen on page three you know if your employer and you get a bear the cost what is that going to be well ideally through this use employees health benefit plan that plan doesn't cover then the employer coverage by asking for American rescue plan funds of which this bill asking the FNA to basically implement a fund. With the several provisions of timely payments and accuracy to reimburse employer or you know and that the agreement could be just say Hey go down most people have malls in their community I've got two miles there's. No trailer set up and people get test day and it's all part of part of the American rescue plan funding that so I think there's plenty of of avenues to an from poor use an aggregate to make this workable to make it consistent with with you know how they do business and not treat one employee differently because he matters more to that company then and another employee that you may not matter as much. M. and and the last provision is if they're terminated. And since S. so we honor Fuseli vaccinated that they will not be disqualified for the benefits that they have paid into it and rightly deserve. So with that I will try to answer any questions at the bottom half. Representable you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair of representative I understand you can only speak to one bill at a time but I'm a little confused because there's another bill that I'm like if this one passes what does that mean for the second one so can you just quickly give us an overview D. plan to present both of these I do plan to present as you know from looking across the the way the Senate has even more bills in these we're not sure. You know where where the chips are going to fall I'd like to see us act as an infinite body and have both these opportunities for for a jet to the assembly to hear. one deals with just you know keep keep the mandate in place so it's important to note that especially house bill nineteen seventy two that it doesn't affect additional conditions employment contract work like that that is not the intent of the bill it's it's you know we're still right to work state they can still terminate at will whereas a House bill nineteen seventy three is probably a little more aggressive it prohibits improved access asking vaccination status which. May be you know as if I'm an employee may be a little more beneficial because then it be on employer to act that you did not terminate me based on me I'll tell you my status. I have another. Yes you're recognized okay so. Talk to me about this natural immunity I understand it but let me give you a little sis frame okay of. COVID nineteen is not the flu it's not the cold viruses not have of ours it's it's specifically a corona virus in and I get that but it's no it's mutating okay so and all of this that's happening we we have to look at and we have to go what we really know to be true and what I know is true is I can have the flu last year and I can still wind up with the flu this year it's a respiratory virus it's not the same respiratory viruses COVID nineteen I I get that but my point is this virus is mutating so if I had the original strain how do I know the antibodies that are produced from the original strain or the T. cell immunity help me understand how I'm confident that with the original string that's going to mean you into delta or meet new or lambda or whatever the next stream is that that comes through so please help me understand that thank you yeah I I wish I was smarter in dealing with. With that question the research that I've looked that is. It is S. as you as you and taking a virus and your your body produces antibodies and I'm like so you just the research I've read in ages and cities this different studies I've read that your body creates Antibodies that fight all very all sequences of that virus and they know you know that there if there's yup fourteen thousand different. Attack modes on this your body is developing and fighting those with those antibodies that you get through the illness you get will. Then a body start to recede in your T. cell based in memory. And then anytime in the next variant comes along they can recognize that Davis have some of the same factors I think the best analogy I got is listen to a podcast it said take it as as a burglar and enters your house you know there's no you know the color eyes in the hair color you know the color of their skin there is there's all these Tribune factors that you know about this burglar verses with a with the vaccine they give you. One one factor they give you a the the burger was sent a six foot tall so the next time you door gets kicked in and you see a six foot tall guy there. You're you're gonna start to go they said less the genius of the vaccine you're you're gonna go get it but with the T. cell defense immunities as like not always be six feet tall he also has the same hair color same eye color the same skin color you got all these different turning factor so when a variant comes in and he's six foot tall with senator brown here is got black here but is that same color eyes same this this your body's gonna basically no to go towards that and. The feed it verses with if the next variant comes with the vaccine which is what we're seeing is not as effective because in maybe six foot but it may be different colored eyes hair smell and they might be facing that really isn't a threat at all. So that those are basically you know examples I was given on how T. so not only adapts and and has a better chance in their practices affect us against the virus as a mutates when the vaccine but it also. would be would be proven factor in that I guess lastly that is is I read article from I believe it's Harvard that said that they in the nineties a study. The surviving members of our community that went through the nineteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds Spanish flu and they're still able to detect inside their T. cells. Antibodies that could fight the Spanish flu within of. So that's a long way around your question. I don't know if it if I had on anything that. You're asking. Represented by a cloud you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman thank you a representative Brian for bringing this forward. A I have a question about one of the reasonings that we have been given for mandating a vaccine is that these employers provide an exemption they provide for an opt out and my question is is we know that some employers have made noises that if you claim this exemption for this specific vaccination then you're going to be held to that same standard for any vaccination so does your bill protect those employees from from that blanket the if you don't get in a corona virus vaccine then but you better not get any other backs. I believe since we're we're just dealing with the corona virus it would only in my opinion is it would only affect the Cronus virus vaccine I don't know if you're talking about maybe flu I don't think it would prohibit them from still mandating flu vaccine in the in the eyes of myself and several my constituents Blake talked to you know those are those are different because they actually have ballot testing they didn't they didn't call the flu vaccine operation work speed to get it inside the of their bodies they didn't have the same bears Activity that they had during you're getting a flu shot the people but dies from flu vaccines absolutely that you know statistics would say they have to do that die at a rate of fifteen thousand the dire at a rate of in the right now in Arkansas twenty five percent the people that are vaccinated Sturch die by the statistics whereas nineteen percent of the unvaccinated had died so this is the Sixers are out there so I I don't think it your question it would it would provide exemptions for any other vaccine it only applies to corona thanks Mr follow up comments if yes you're recognized if we're going to provide some protection for our employees and it might be good to consider that another works I don't want to do something and then all of a sudden we realize we've left a loophole open thank you. Representive Eubanks you're recognized for a question. Yeah. Thank you Mr. I just wanna make sure I got it this straight my mind years you're saying that if your bill saying that a person can refuse the vaccine if they can prove that they have. I assume had COVID so that they have antibodies in their system. Or that they agree to weekly test. Is that correct okay. So. I don't know that I have too much of a problem with that part of it how we get to the unemployment benefits because. How can they be fired solely for. Refusing to get the vaccine they would have to be very refusing to. Show evidence of antibodies or refusing the weekly test as well would they not in order to qualify for unemployment benefits. Yeah I think what we're saying is that if they if they've done all that you have placed in the personal says was not good enough I you don't want that the vaccine and when are you is that not only will is there compensation allowed through the. C. Fite fun. It may be that the other bill that addresses the American rescue plans as far as that with enough not only is that you would have to. They can say Hey yes we're doing all this and the Porter says it's not good enough we're not years were passed be a potentially passing a statue here that says that employer has to accept. Either the proof of the antibodies or the weekly testing or the they can't require. The vaccine. Yeah that that's if that's the case then they how could they not terminate him for not getting the vaccine if they're doing one of those too thanks the employee would have to prove that that's what I got terminated. So we're we're still employment at will but if the if the employer says Hey we just don't need you anymore I mean that's that's their employment will I mean if if we just on ET but if they make comments such as with your views to get the vaccine. I'm not taking your test I'm not taking them not taking your antibody tests or weekly test then this is saying yes individual shall be disqualified from the benefits if they're terminated solely on the basis reviews of axing. Follow up. Yes you're recognized. I have a problem with that and allowing the unemployment benefits for an individual that refuses to follow company policy. And if the and and if the law that you're putting your your. Proposing here. Is basically going to dictate to the employer that you have to allow for the antibody test or the weekly testing. Then I don't I. I don't think. The unemployment benefits should come into play at all. Personally I'd that I just really have a problem with section three. But yeah that's that's the intent of the bill is to say if you're if you're going to mandate you're also going to allow not only yes it is so if you wanna give acting great good give axing the check boxes but if you if you don't want to. They could they also must provide an Avenue for you to DO to for them to accept this these testing if they decide not to accept that and they're still going to fire you just like employment will if I you for no reason you still go draw unemployment benefits it's it's it goes I guess from answer to answer questions I guess you're saying are we are you getting terminated for insubordination. Verses are you just you know he's a company not following the law office passes verses is employed just being insubordinate. Mister chair want one more. What if the employee doesn't get the vaccine. Doesn't want to get to the antibody test. And doesn't want to be tested weekly. Then then ploy can fire them yes okay. Representative Pilkington you're recognized for a question. Thank you chairman Ladyman representative Bryant earlier when you were answering representative clouds questions you cited the telly rates on the vaccine can you cite your source on that I think you may miss focus. See I I had asked the chair and I decided against it just because there is there's a little bit of Dialogue within the email text of the for your body so I'd I'd I did not provide it but There is a. And I'm I'm happy to provide this to to the Committee so they can do this for certain. So what what it is is the is of a four year from the citizen and Farmington. That for the Arkansas department of health. after successful I believe this excess court case to force the information and I don't think it was a refusal I think it's just they got such a backlog for you request it could get to an I'm happy if if AT H. wants to. To the Committee fi these but they ask for statistics there are. Ten questions that they asked the department. and although with at what date was Code vaccine available to all our cans and regardless of age group occupational hazards like Senator in other words the date that the general public over the age eighteen had full access to COVID nineteen vaccines and the date that the Department of gave them was March thirtieth of twenty twenty one. The second question is that okay to read this yes. Then it's on to stop you if you get out okay understood. the question too is how many cover nineteen this rule were. At after the date in question how many COVID nineteen this report in Arkansas this is since March thirty first twenty twenty one one thousand four hundred ninety three individuals have died from covid. Question three after the date in question how many those are cans and of co nineteen deaths were fully vaccinated individuals and the answer was one hundred seventy nine of the of those deaths of the forty nine ninety three were fully vaccinated so if you did that math a hundred seventy nine. A committee keeping this questions for get off track. After the date in question how many those are Kansans of a co nineteen deaths were partially vaccinated departments answer was seventy five deaths were among those of partially vaccinated. After the date in question how many of those are cans and this of code nineteen were unvaccinated and the answer given by the department was one thousand eighty nine individuals of unvaccinated had died. After the date in question how many fully vaccinate our cans were hospitalized due an answer they gave was five hundred thirty one individuals were fully immunized prior to the diagnosis and were hospitalized we're going your question M.. The the graph of the fully vaccinated. Total number of fully vaccinated. At seven hundred ten deaths of one hundred seventy nine recoveries of five hundred thirty one so the ratio of a hundred seven nine this one seven hundred ten of those being fully vaccinated is twenty five point two percent. The unvaccinated the total number is five thousand nine hundred fifty five of which eleven hundred sixty four deaths related Fortner four thousand seven ninety one recovery so the ratio of eleven thousand I'm sorry eleven hundred sixty four deaths divided and fifty nine hundred fifty five since March thirty first came out in nineteen point five percent. So again that's a it's it's always got more more got so that would this was the forty eight information received from the department health since March thirty first of twenty twenty one when Arkansas was authorized to vaccinate anybody over the age of eighteen. Thank you for walking through the. Representative Boyd you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair so let me go back quickly to section three I wanna make sure I'm crystal clear on this so if I'm an employee and I refuse to do the antibody testing and refused to get the vaccine I don't produce natural immunity then at that point in time the employer could fire me let me go but this section three doesn't apply because it says terminated solely due to refusal to be vaccinated is that correct or is that your intent for yes okay yes yeah I'm not I'm not for with speed on on unemployment benefits as far as I know the businesses I ran on seven eleven permit anybody to the left of their own volition and I think I've gotten one request from workforce services as far as what happened I got the little questionnaires words what happened because I did have an employee seek benefits but they left of their own accord so I'm not sure you know in the in the area of benefits of termination versus you know an employee just decides to walk away as far as what benefits there to going to have it yes with with the intent of this is if the employer says you're not I'm not playing ball with any test you just gonna get fired because no mandate which violates intent of this is the key word is solely due to refusal to be vaccinated. Okay and then just one follow up to yes I'll be quick so back to your nineteen percent versus twenty five percent if I'm understanding correctly you're saying that nineteen percent of the fact unvaccinated are likely to die at or have this very bad outcome versus twenty five percent of vaccinated is that what I'm yes according to the map of the Department retail gave this questionnaire so so when you consider that are you taking into account age and other conditions and other factors or you just solely looking at vaccinated or unvaccinated is this is just pure numbers there's no underlying factors contributed this is pure numbers of what the sales for the fact that eighteen year olds to whatever forty year olds are less likely to have been vaccinated then sixty five and older you're not taking that into committee of including go that specific before your question US specifically just I've got to basic numbers I just don't want to send the the message that vaccines are necessarily killing people if if we haven't compared the miniature scientific way is is why I want clarity and this is this is just going with Arkansas since March thirty first just just broad numbers yeah and the other could be. Dozens underlying factors that can contribute to other sites a death due to the bills thank you six four six. Mr Ferguson you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I have a question the existing bill that I believe representative Lundstrum passed it allows hospitals to come to council and get an exemption and mandate vaccines with this bill override that and not allow hospitals to mandate that teams if they're given permission by council well I believe observe luncheons bills just for state agencies not for private hospitals. It just is just for state hospitals not for private institutions so that may not be a separate so those those state institutions could point still per the previous Act could still come to the Legislative Council and ask for certain provisions so this would not apply to state agencies or state hospitals. And let me tell you why I'm asking the question because I I I just had a meeting with you AMAS and CMS has a rule that's coming out that will of say that if hospitals do not mandate that sayings then they lose Medicare Medicaid funding so I I don't want us to do anything that's going to prohibit hospitals from mandating vaccines when it completely which you know shut them down because if they don't get Medicare Medicaid reimbursement I can't survive so I mean I'm concerned that your bill would certainly involve private hospitals. And at I mean for that reason I I I I had see how we can afford to do this as state. Yeah and I and I understand that and and answer I give is we don't know we can they can say they're going to do it but is that they're gonna do it next month they can do it after next month the fall or you know so that expose the next month they do that well with it's going to rules and rectory what kind of challenges are that they can receive when is it going to get not implement there's there's a whole bunch of what ifs the what ifs that we that we know are that citizens are going to be nurses doctors every several speak here today are affected by those mandates and are we as a state going to allow. You know the federal government to tell us what to do because they've got a a bag of money right there that sounds like so several of us will say yes the bag of money it'll it'll ruin us but I would say litigation pushing back on that were published all that until we can figure out what the best case scenario is for the for our citizens may I decided to put the hot put our hospitals and that kind of financial situation at this bill. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized for a question. The thing Mr well just had one question but what she just said brought up another to if you don't mind me asking questions on that go ahead first so I believe you started off in your presentation some of the federal government did provide exemptions to those exemptions carryover to hospitals currently and with that still apply in this situation that she's talking about with with the funding And we're not just opening this up for private employees to get to mandate the mandate that they have the same exemptions yes I would agree with that synopsis that if if the federal government can take their title nine and say you know what we're what you don't get affected three CMS funny because we subtitle nine provisions even though as as federal versus state if the state has their own statutes I think it could be argued Hey we've you know equal title nine we've got our own statutes that we follow. why would affect funding when it's you know it's still our statute so I I think it could be litigated you know we're not excessively you know possibly a stay on scene as rules until it's figured out but like this again there's I don't know how many states to date there's at least half a dozen and growing that I've adopted even more aggressive statutes than than this that just says Hey give alternate means of protection. tier workforce. Okay nine go ahead give another question yeah I do is totally unrelated to that but I'll carry on back to the unemployment benefits it looks to me like yes what what representive you back to saying yes we're set we're telling them employers that this is illegal you can't do that but it looks to me like the only recourse for the employee is that they can file for unemployment there there's nothing if without that part in there there will be no teeth on this bill whatsoever which I feel like that's kind of a soft play anyway yeah and it is a known compared to other bills even bills while in the Senate and makes the House process yet this this is you know that your I think you're accurate I think that is going to a private attorney And choose to go through no. Little that way to see what kind of relief without given unemployment there's no taste to the employers and in this legislation right. Thank you. Buster person you're recognized for comment yeah my other question at at a I searched and I couldn't find any other state that had done this Senate allowed unemployment benefits to go paid to go to people who quit because they didn't get it back saying is you know of any other state to Dennis I didn't research the details is prime more cursory just from the authority Alabama's north South Carolina just passing bills that say we're not going to allow baxeen mandates approaches got there's more broad more like roughly know that see mandates in our state. They didn't I've been reading through it anything that discuss it out of the estate that's required to pay an employment in a thank you. Representative Bentley you're recognized for a question. Okay. A push button again. Thank you chairman thank you represent brand for bringing forth this bill thanks very important are you aware of the attorney general's letter this going out from at least twenty one attorney generals across the nation are you pushing back on this federal mandates and the CMS rules on those different things every a chance to look at that the I've seen the email that contain letter but not not in depth yes we I think we're at as far as litigation goes or I believe that we're a good point we do not live there are you looking at pushing back at all of this is far as litigation goes to protect our hospitals. Thank you and I believe also that the federal law trumps state law something that they would be in good shape thank you. Representative Payton you're recognized. Thank you Mr So representative first and brought up a concern about the federal government using Medicare Medicaid dollars to try to force a vaccine mandate through those. Providers that that depend on Medicare Medicaid. I don't finding your bill where they would be prohibited from having a vaccine mandate. Is there anything in your bill that would prohibit them from having a vaccine mandate I mean all I see is that it allows accommodations for for something other than the vaccine to prove that you have. I'm unity resistance to the. To the virus. Yes represent that is that is an accurate statement this is saying if the company chooses to. To have a mandate therefore they are implementing a company wide mandate that they would also provide. So we'll have a high and that this satisfy the federal rule. if I could have a follow up yes you're recognized and earlier there was discussion about whether or not natural immunity would protect against future strains of the virus do we know at this point whether or not the vaccine will provide protection against future strains of the bot virus. I can't answer that I can you know I can answer that to say I read enough articles that say we don't know yet okay you know with different state they're different countries the push for your ninety plus percent unity that that immunity is is waning you know down in the fifties they always rule in the United Kingdom and so they're obviously pushing for posters thank you thank you for bringing the bill thank you Mr. I committee I see no more questions from the committee. So thank you representative Bryant we do have a number of people signed up to speak on the bill for the bill and against the bill I'm going to call those that that I want to speak on the bill. So Lawrence you would come forward. So would please introduce yourself for the record and who you represent. Thank you Mr chair committee. Thank you Mr chairman birds of the committee on large you general counsel for the house we make a little bit closer you can certainly you. Matt Gilmore heart health. Charles Thompson Department health. All right you may proceed. Thank you Mr chair we had a few points that we wanted to make it today I think at title nine has been mentioned several times by the sponsor of the bill it may have been misspoke I it may be a reference to title seven which prohibits employment discrimination but also we just wanna make sure that you all are aware with the the bears event in the report about the fifteen thousand that have died and that is a source from and verify data in those reports also don't prove causality so we just want to make sure that you all were aware of that the counterpoints to the statements that were made and this bill was filed at ten for today our folks back at the department of health or still at reading it in our experts are still making determinations about how this will affect the department and the state as far as a public health matters are concerned and we are looking at the fact that on page two under that section two line twenty two refers to the negative antigen detection test and for no more than one time per week in our experts of you that will probably not be enough that would probably need to be made up more often and sometimes the schools that are looking at testing or talking about possibly even three to four times per week also on line twenty six talking about the proof of the presence of antibodies are T. cell response for the virus on an annual basis and there is a concern about that and that assumption in the in the bill would also need more vetting the presence of the antibody and you know you're still going to get more information on reinfection in the future there's not numerous studies that have shown that there are reinfection so obviously the antibodies in the vaccine would be this the strongest defense. Yes for our folks but we would be concerned about that at not being enough so we are also looking at a page three and the D. FNA establishing the rules regarding the method of district distribution of the the are profundity know we're unsure of how that will affect those funds and whether or not those could be distributed in that in that manner there's a lot of an sureties with the bill and we're still in the process of review and we would appreciate I'm a little more time to give a more thoughtful consideration to the review of the bill. Mr chairman may make a couple comments what you said is in you're recognized thank you is totally correct other other questions we had our comment was are we talking about exposed individuals are we talking about the systematic testing you know for the employers that's in twenty to consider as well she mentioned the reinspection we don't know what that's gonna look like long term the the CDC has recently come out with the definition of what reinspection is we're still that in that process so As the bill has been just given today we were just we're still trying to figure out some of the impact of it and we appreciate y'all's consideration are and witness of their common. All right we do have a few questions representative Wardlaw you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr there were some comments made by the sponsor the bill while ago about the effectiveness of the vaccine on the different variants and the future possibility of of mutations. It miss you you you do okay job but not very much in details about that when you started your opening statements can can you go any deeper and I don't know which probably should have doctor delay or someone else from the department but I mean. To have the sponsor is not a healthcare professional not in healthcare make those kind of comments of I'd like to hear from the science community. On that subject to make sure that we're making the educated decision here. I certainly have represented Wardlaw and as you all know I am an attorney I'm not a medical doctor you have and several experts at the department of health or an extremely well qualified to speak to that that manner but you know what we would strongly disagree with any assumptions about the vaccine at this point and you know we're still learning a lot every day about how how effective it is and also you know as far as you know the size is concerned it is FDA approved it has gone through lengthy studies and all the studies are showing that it is effective and it is the the strongest tool that we have in our in our tool box at this point to combat the disease. Thank you. If I'm a representative Wardlaw of I would echo what she says we've you know we have reported the day and in the press conferences and on our dashboard day about the efficacy of the vaccine about ninety percent of hospitalizations are those that are unvaccinated so I think that's important to note as if we is that before and our experts have said the vaccines are mentioned to be highly effective against all of accident against all the variants they're still possibility things that in the future but I think the vaccine is the most and safest way to move for this with this point Vaught followup Mr yes you're recognized so let's talk through the numbers and we just got a I guess if I had to say we just came out of a heavy intense round but it seems to look like we're on the downward swing at that on those numbers. When you look at I see you and you look at the ventilator numbers. How many of those people were on ventilators that were vaccinated versus unvaccinated is is their numbers out there that show that or are not under tell us we we have numbers we didn't I don't have those with you today but we have seen that the majority of folks on ventilators are those that are unvaccinated those that had you know some comorbidities typically when I go on the ventilator on the ventilator for quite awhile so I would I would agree that you know that the vaccine keep shall the hospital keeps you off the ventilator and prevents long term illness. Mr on that same line you have one more. So. I really ask anything degree with a I want those numbers are there so the same numbers indication on the death rate as well we have the numbers of deaths that were vaccinated versus the deaths that were on vaccinations we have art ask for we have we have that information as well and we can provide that to the committee if need be I don't have it with me if and if that's on the dashboard Mr can I ask questions a chair. Yes since we have quite a few people signed up to speak for against can we ask the health department to go get those numbers income up before voting and the indicate those numbers to committee can you all do that it back to us as quickly what is that thank thank you Mister representative Gonzalez you're recognized. I thank Mr Mister Mister you said of that vaccine antibodies are stronger or. Exactly remember how how you put that stronger or more effective the natural antibodies can you tell me where you got that information from. We have an our experts I have the the studies to back that up and I'm happy to provide that to you I just don't have it right here with me. But certainly. So you can get that for us that information. Okay. Representative Payton you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr. So I'm over here to your left arm. Been on this committee for several years of. He sure of picked up information along the way that you know with vaccines or with herd immunity type things you know you get in the sixty seventy percent range and it. Sufficient to stave off most infectious diseases what is the target on COVID for for yeah do we want a hundred percent of the population vaccinated or does it look like it's sixty seventy eighty percent we're basically going to be able to stave off the virus what is the target. I think what we said in the past as we want as many people get vaccinated as possible but I think you know you for the governor Dr Merrill say you know seventy eighty you know Arkansas you know with the flu shot we don't have you know what we like to have on that as well but I think you know it's the flu shot usually around fifty sixty percent for if all good day a good year but I think you know we would the I think the target for speaking off but that's that's like a member of in the last conversations I've had would be around you know seventy eight percent would be great but I don't know that we're gonna get that so if I get a follow up basically you. Yeah you're recognized thank you what I'm getting at is you know the vaccine hesitancy verses refusal on then we may be talking about ten or fifteen percent of employed individuals is that really going to affect us from reaching and I'm a herd immunity from vaccine or from natural immunity from having had the virus I mean. Can we not accommodate people that have a sincere. Concern about. Violating their body with a vaccine I mean I personally have recommended many people to get this vaccine you know. But is it is the number of people that we're trying to make accommodations for here really going to affect whether or not we can reach our reasonable goal I think it might so representative Payton I think that you know we have in the in the past exemptions have been given and I think that's an important thing to consider I don't know that we'll ever reach the target goal of what the you know vaccine uptake should be but I do think exemptions are important I think that's something that's been done in the past in the state but I do think that you know we need to strive to get as many people excited as possible. And I just like to clarify we're not combines emptions we're talking about accommodations they still have to prove that they're not affected or that they have been affected and have not drawn antibodies. Yes so it we're not about exemptions were Tom accommodations here yeah I think that's wild you know. We have so stress or I haven't conversations I've had to look incentives to try to find ways to provide education that sort of thing so I think we can do when you do some kind of mandate or something like that I think is the governor said in the past it It increases the hesitancy level so I think I think it's important to try to bring people to it as much as is through education and just you know and instance of the like that I would agree thank you Mr. All right seeing no other questions thank you for your comments yes Sir. The mark white you would come forward. You would please introduce yourself in the represent. Thank you Mr Clark white director and chief of staff reporter Human Services we ours And speaking on the bill today. Skews me so much sure the committee understand some of the possible consequences of the bill depending on the best thing that may happen going forward as been it's been alluded to president Biden did direct CMS to adopt a vaccination mandate for certain health care facilities at this point we expect that mandate would apply to certainly the Arkansas Health Center which is the nursing home we run out here Haskell as well as the Arkansas State Hospital it may also apply to our five human development centers that we operate around the state and some of those seven facilities those include about a thousand patients that we're caring for in those facilities but also directly account for more than three thousand jobs so very critical facilities for us and for the state the issue that we have or that the the the concern we have is this bill sets out a number of exemptions alternatives accommodations for testing of our race expectation is when CMS releases their rule around the vaccination mandate we expect they will have some provisions around exemptions around accommodations we don't know what those are yet and so we don't know if what's in this bill is going to conflict with what will be in the CMS mandates it may it may not weed at this point we just don't know if there is a conflict there and we're in a position of that comply with state law puts us in violation of the federal mandate then that could put us the risk sanctions again with the sanctions will be since we don't have the rule yet but the one Hammer the defense always have around something like this is funding and for the are those facilities those facilities account for eleven million dollars in federal funding per month about a hundred thirty million dollars per year that the state would have to make up if the feds chose to take the funding away as a result of us not complying with. There rule so again I'm not making a prediction because as I said it all depends on what's in the federal rule but at this point we just don't know and social make sure that we understood that that's the position that we're in in the conflict we potentially may face we have to answer any questions. Representative Payton you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr. So you're saying we don't know because CMS is not. Finalize their position yes is it possible that CMS would be. Monitoring. What happens with this legislation and is it possible that what we do my alter or affect their ultimate the ultimate outcome of what their rule is. Anything is possible but I can't speak to know what's the Mrs monitoring or how much they would pay attention to that. Thank you thank you Mr. Representative Gonzales you're recognized. The manager understand federal law overrides state law but this is not exactly a federal law that's passed is does that same thing apply to. Federal rules regulations executive orders. I would say generally speaking a federal rule will override state law assuming that that rule is lawfully enacted I say generally because it went is the law we we lawyers love to make lots of no contingencies and differences but generally speaking a federal will a federal rule would over ride thank you. Representative cloud you're recognized. Thank you madam chairman. Mr what you reference the seven facilities with approximately a thousand patient residence do you know how many of those thousand are already vaccinated. Hi I don't have that with me but I can get that for you thank you. I don't see any further questions thank you the manager I have jim Hudson next to speak on the bill. You're recognized yourself and who you're with. Thank you ma'am chairman jim that's in the Arkansas department commerce a little bit is echoing what you've already heard it's a bill it just dropped a few hours ago we're still trying to read as children understanding what I want to do is just come up and just raise areas of enquiring for us that were are you looking at and some of the initial concerns that we do have but I do wanna begin with just appointed agreement section one day of the bill challenges the federal mandate and the necessity for the federal employer mandate nothing we agree with that and the governor spoken about that we don't think that's necessary we think it is over reach by the by the ministration the Altman was not helpful and so we we We hope that there will be measure successful to do something about that that being said do not think that this bill is a helpful vehicle to do that from the employer community perspective a couple points you know. It does lay out a fairly specific process in a section that's labeled exemption so the that's what the sections because exemption from a vaccine mandate for an opt out for testing and it lays out very specific protocols for that I'm not a scientist I'm not a doctor I cannot tell you if those are adequate protocols or not but I do know that federal OSHA is in the process of writing an emergency rule that will address mandates for employers of a hundred more employees in the opt out provisions for testing have no idea how those two provisions will sync up and I think what we risk is the potential for putting our employers in a place of choosing to they violate a state law or they violate a federal law and in the environment they're in right now coming out pandemic trying to get as many our Kansans back to work as possible the employers in this state have been through so much in the past year do we really want to put Morehead went on them in terms of employing sites that that's one comment other the same comment would be about unemployment and sounds like just from the a conversation that's occurred so far today that the bill may be a vehicle to get people unemployment benefits and and if that's the case let me just explain what current the state of current law is. Currently under Arkansas's unemployment low if somebody were to resign because they did not want be vaccinated because religious exemption reason or because of a medical reason or if they were fired by an employer because they had a religious exemption or had a medical exemption then the court appeals are recognized that as a valid reason to provide employee benefits they've had to go through the claims process and demonstrate that so it I think current law is already adequate in terms of addressing the unemployment issue our concern would be the first time that we would be riding into unemployment low hard wired an exemption to give somebody an unemployment benefits for violating employer policy. We we have low concerns about doing. So Mister chairman that's all or March second half will continue to review the bills and as we have additional plots and there's additional opportunities will come back and present those. All right we do have a question representan Gonzalez you're recognized for a question. I feel like Senator Hammer today. Thank you Mr. This is my question the so I know we heard earlier this week you testified on this to by the religious exemptions but I'd like to have people in here again How are those recognized when someone applies for religious exemption the company still fires on their terminated for for that how to how do you all handle that when it gets to you as far as looking at it saying yes this is a big we held religious belief by this person they do deserve unemployment or no they that's not a true religious exemption we're gonna we're gonna deny the claim sure if I may add you into the employment no title seven which an issue remarked earlier has separate statutory obligations in federal law to accommodate you know religious beliefs as does the Arkansas Civil Rights Act in so employer outside the employment system already has an obligation under existing law to accommodate us in in there is recourse for individuals to sue if the employer does not accommodate those but the answer your specific questions about unemployment Sir you know one an employer cannot prevent somebody from filing unemployment. Okay prevents my profound claim and I think there's some folklore out there that somehow employer be able to do that they can't do. individual loses their job they get to file that claim and the agency is obligated to review that claim to determine our benefits compensable and so they will look at the reasons that the employee describes a former employee Strasser reasons the termination employee will tell his story or story as well bill kind of way the differences and they'll make a determination out from that initial termination there are multiple opportunities for appeal there's an opportunity to kind of go for adjudication level then the agency in there too appellate levels within department workforce services and then there's the court of appeals as well. So if somebody gets it wrong about a religious preference accommodation there's often correct and if you go look at the case lawful court appeals they are very willing to correct that and I had. Jim other questions. That directly answered the questions that I had how will you specifically handle the religious exemption if someone claims a religious or unless our medical in there as well thank lame a religious or medical exemption what are you gonna look at to prove that yes this is a a true exemption that that they deserve to get are you gonna dig into the religion are you gonna dig into their medical history what are you gonna look at to say yes this person deserves unemployment or rather now well I think you get different pros for medical versus religion so for medical you know letter from the doctor that's gonna be great evidence you know this person for whatever reason medical condition they are unable to receive the vaccine and and and be healthy you know we're not gonna send them to an independent medical exam on that that doctor statement school don't stand on it so in terms of the religious exemption You know larger but I'm also pastor would seminary you know Protestant by a by belief evangelical Christian you know I want to buy a look at my believes in kind of passing judgment on is that results that not reasonable the question is do you have the belief. Do you have a billing. If you got to believe that I think you will make the case. We've already had experience with doing that what I'm what I'm trying to say is this is not new there are plenty of people of faith out there good people of faith who had conscious concerns about vaccines for a long time and we've had to hear those issues in adjudicate those down a new offer that we are got. All right committee saying no further questions thank you for your comments restrict Mr increase. Okay committee we have a number of people signed up to speak for and against the bill some people have signed up for us nineteen seventy two and some for seventy threes all to try to sort those out as we go through here. So speak for the bill. Chelsea Midnighter. Would come board. Please introduce yourself and who you represent. Sure my name is Chelsea Bittner and I represent myself. You may go and make your comments so I had prepared. A speech I'm a servant certified pharmacy technician immersed in Rogers spent my last three and a half years immersed in Rogers that's been plus ten years of my life in the pharmacy field. Tomorrow I will be suspended because of my failure to receive a code nineteen vaccination the same vaccination the same virus that I'm naturally me into I contracted COVID at work in a properly fitted mask two months ago. NO one else in my house got sick I was obviously quarantine from work for twelve days in my referred my my employer refuses to acknowledge my natural immunity I'm if you'll give me just a few minutes I really want to paint a picture for you all your healthcare workers were put on the top of pedestals eighteen months ago when this started we rest our lives we we know code establish deadly we rest our lives day in and day out for our second dying for strangers we we start covered in the face for eighteen months and never blinked we never shied away from covid we certainly didn't withhold care because we were scared to catch covid we don't with healthcare for TB patients or C. diff patients or E. coli patients any other communicable disease we use the proper PP and protects us and if we get it we get it it's a risk that we take in the field in which we serve. Eighteen months ago your healthcare people your employees were made heroes everybody held us as heroes not all heroes wear capes and superheroes work here. You put us on the top pedestals you you put us on a silver platter and said this is the best of the best and this is the cream of the crop we trust these people with our lives big businesses have then put a rope around our neck I'm standing before you today having had that pedestal kicked out from beneath me I don't know how I will feed my children in thirty days I will not have an income after tomorrow. I've paid into the unemployment system to touch on a couple of things my entire working career I've paid into that system why should I not reap its benefits when a decision about my unemployment or my employment with with my company with Marcy is out of my hands I filed for an exemption I was denied less than twenty four hours later having worked at the Rogers campus I was denied by mercy employees in St Louis I was denied by strangers who didn't know their own heroes we were hailed we were hailed as heroes people three one arch our our sidewalks with chalk they donated energy drinks and little Debbie's we were hailed as heroes and now that's not good enough. It's not enough I sacrificing our lives day in and day out for eighteen months was not enough the only thing that we're asking for with this bill is a little bit of protection to protect me from my over reaching employer mercy shall not true colors to me. Thank you call ME two weeks from now I wouldn't go back I will continue with my suspension I would stick to my convictions. I I'd I've tried everything I've I've played every card in my deck I've organized protest organized rallies after going three hours from home to speak to you all to beg you all to protect us the same people that elected you I'm asking I'm asking you to protect us we we can't do it I have no other options my employer has deemed that I'm expendable. And that's it that's the end of my career I can't go to other hospitals because of their mandate I can't stay at mercy because of my denied exemption I have no other options I don't have an option to have anybody's testing done which I would be more than willing I would be more than willing to have my antibodies drawn once a month or be tested every two weeks Marcy dam that that was not appropriate that I wasn't enough for two COVID swabs a month to allow me to serve under their name there been a couple of things that have been brought up between or before me speakers before myself ventilator use was one I can tell you that per my mercy email the last one we received sixty two patients and mercy Rogers were ventilated it does not distinguish between COVID nineteen patients or the drug addict and dating can't breathe on their own it makes no distinction. At the moving goal post of herd immunity and we we spoke on that a second go first it was you know sixty or seventy percent now seventy or eighty percent it is a moving goal post when it doesn't fit one bill we move it well it's IT ten percent less is good not. It. Stick to it have some convictions and state to it that's all we're asking we're asking for you to protect us because there are fluid fluid and daily changes I'm. Make no mistake we are being terminated we're not voluntarily resigning we wouldn't do that. We are being terminated with no choice they decide who's worth keeping and whose work not. I was not my company won't take its liability you want me to get a vaccine that you get there's no liability to if it kills me then there is nobody to take care of my general child nobody his father is not in the picture that was absolutely awaiting my decision that if something happens to me one in a million shot. Better than that now. But I can't leave my ten year old and now they're taking my job. Because I had what was best for him in mind now they're taking my job the three to four times a week testing is absolutely absurd. And when when the department of health will stand beside me and how that's what showed up their nose vaccinated or not. All comply. Being vaccinated against beings tested for the virus that I've had and overcome because I'm a healthy thirty one year old female. That's that's still not enough. I can't my my employer is not even giving me the opportunity to prove that I have antibodies. They are unwilling to recognize any kind of of exemption with antibodies and if that doesn't speak volumes than it should. I've heard. What's going on right now reminds me a lot of the Salem witch trials. Let's test people who are immune to it to figure out if they have it or not I mean. We we burn witches at the stake and if they died and they want which is I mean at what point do we say. Okay let's draw a line in the sand this is the hard answer not this moving goal post of herd immunity or mass vaccination vaccination. A spot to spot and sticking it and I can tell you I'm not vaccine hesitant I'm fully vaccinated other than covert a virus that I have antibodies to. What changing the narrative and quit changing the goal and you would get a lot more compliance and and please and I mean this and and haha respect stop telling us that were uneducated. Stop telling us that we are uneducated. Audience you would we we don't allow trapping up appreciation those isn't it thank you I want to thank you for your long trip to come here and tell us your situation. we appreciate you doing that can I ask When when you told your employer that you had natural immunity. What specifically was their answer I mean what did they say there is no answer when I tested positive Funny enough my facility was not able to test me. Marcy Rogers was not able to test me I had to go to Washington regional in which my test results were expedited because I was a healthcare worker I fought them for. Also full days about two weeks later I'm to even get my results I was never contacted nor was I ever called emailed nothing from the department of health I was never in any shape form or fashion contact traced. I work on a COVID unit day if there is anybody that is going to get COVID and spread it you matter right here. I was never contact traced I I turned my positive results over to my employer and they paid me for the I think it was six days not even that and that was it there there's been absolutely no communication from our senior leadership to hourly employees it's very top of the totem pole bottom of the totem pole. They they have an iron fist and we comply with some questions compliance and and I'm not willing to give up there is no discussion on antibodies at all we do we do have a couple questions for a representative Boyd you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I'd like to echo I appreciate you coming today you know so I'm I'm sensitive about asking questions but I still think first of that this bill appropriately we have absolutely actions okay so number one comes to mind there are other jobs you you mentioned that the you don't have other opportunities but say Walgreens CVS is an independent pharmacy owner and the independent pharmacy what what is keeping you to have to work in a hospital pharmacy so could you just speak to that as to why you are locked in to that if you if retail pharmacy technicians were paid what hospital pharmacy technicians are. People would gravitate towards hospital that would stand retail it's a lot easier work. It's not easy but it's easier. One one follow up Mr yes you're recognized and again I think you've touched on this but I want to ask specifically so you're in an environment where people are sick their bodies you know we're potentially compromised in a different way than you you said you were thirty one I think in healthy something like that but these people are sick and more frail than you are and you know so you're potentially if you have COVID your potentially out spreading I just could you again speak to the. That aspect of things about how that you know what how do you find that balance between your your individual rights and the the fact that you're in a patient care setting now I'm and I I would be more than willing to test weekly or bi weekly or even have withdrawn once a month for anybody testing just wasn't given the option I'm. When it comes to our our patient safety versus ours I think everybody in this room knows the healthcare workers to put our state eighty second to those of our patients for decades it's it's what we do we certainly don't get and a healthcare for the payment schedule I mean we get into it so that we can serve I don't take lightly the risk that I run to my patients or the patients that I come in contact with in the hallway I'm for eighteen months now when when all of this started we had a huge PP shortage we were reusing the gallon specifically in pharmacy that we use in a sterile environment in which those drugs were then taken to our patients we were re using those for a week at a time that's an eight hour thing we put on it seven thirty in the morning and I started way before I leave it for an eight hour and I'm sure that's not regulation we it's a one and done for us we were when we throw away we were being asked to re use those for a week at a time our masks again in a sterile environment I can't come out of our IV room into the pharmacy and then come back into the ivy room with the same mask on I have to change my mask is no longer sterile once it comes out of that anti in buffer room I'm those masks we were asked to be taken off stored in our room a cloth mask back on I'm not in the pharmacy and then we were asked to require the same asks for an entire shift I'm those are your blue surgical masks those are supposed to be changed every forty eight hours or when they become what so speeds or cough we were asked to require those for an entire shift because we couldn't get and if we were not in the ivy room and we were asked to wear a mask for a three day period in which we stored them in brown paper bags because we couldn't get masks we couldn't get PP we couldn't get all of that that we had been told for eighteen months would protect us from our patients before this vaccine. We we handle TB patients HIV patients have the patience. There are no different airborne or contact precaution that publication is but it's an entirely different. Set of rules and regulations handling one or the other. We we don't discriminate we take care of everybody and. Thank you. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized. Thank Mr we've heard from several of people who've already been done here testified that the federal government requires some type of exemption policy for certain certain things where you provided any type of written exemption policy for mercy I'm I was given the opportunity to fight an exemption I'm in which I was I was asked to provide a full vaccination history which my employer to have. I was asked what other duties or activities in my life would essentially. Speak to me to nine covered by session so I assume I don't have any I just don't I want long term side effects it doesn't have anything to do with politics I want long term side effects as in those aren't there I assume that would be that you know you don't eat pork for religious reasons or you you don't consume caffeine per I don't And then thirdly it asked us to find or approach our own religious leaders I myself don't have one and have them at test and put their neck on the line for us. To a test our faith we were asked for a man to attest to the relationship that we have with Christ and put his head on the chopping block because in that that signature line it says I get permission from you know myself to mercy to call me and inquire about set employee okay so they provided you with an application but they provide you with an actual policy of what they're not nothing nothing of what their policies are it was a moving target some I've talked to I found a nurse that the exact same reasons that I did I simply stated that we didn't feel like I was being called to receive the vaccination of the time as I had natural immunity and and that I was denying the opportunity to have their religious certification attests station filled out as I needed no mortal man to attest to my face she used the exact same arguments Purcell's accepted mine was denied. There's there's no parameters if that's what you're asking I suppose thank you. Buster version you're recognized. Yeah I am always curious for people who don't take the vaccine obviously taken other vaccines which have greater risk than the COVID in terms of complications or death or any of those things in you didn't take it even before you had and what you're calling natural immunity what what your problem with taking the vaccine. The full backs and I don't have a problem with it's been around for decades and again I think I came at the flu shot from a place of ignorance I trusted the heads that B. and said sure you're saying it's safe it say after researching covid and and the efficacy testing dealing with the flu and a covered backs nations both all deny the flu vaccination from here on out. I want long term I mean is there something specific someone's told you about the code back saying that would make you not take it nobody has to tell me anything I see that day I see the check ins there are E. R. for a vaccination eight specific COVID vaccination reaction. I. I see it every day I don't I don't need anybody to tell me I'm I was on the covered floor twice a day for the entire last week. I mean it's if you don't have a reaction you're not building immunity I I don't understand your hesitancy to get the vaccine I will unless other problem with this bill there's no standardization for antibody levels in I mean the antibody test is is there's there's no standardization for that at this point so and there's no standardization because our employers are refusing to even acknowledge now I mean the CDC has not established any level that that says your immune so I mean I have a problem with anybody test being a part of this exemption but a I'm just always curious why people won't take the cover vaccine if they take other vaccines which had very limited problems compared to many other facts and I don't think fifteen thousand three hundred and sixty eight deaths as of today is a little problem when only one percent of adverse reactions are actually reported to bear And as millions of shots compared to other vaccines that's a drop in the bucket I have a ten year old that I'm not willing to take that risk with. I have a ten year old. That I'm not willing to take that risk with but you're willing to a symptomatically spread COVID all the patients in the hospital I okay. All right seeing no further questions thank you for your comments. Okay to speak against the bill Randy Zook. Please introduce yourself and who you represent Randy's UC presen Arkansas state chamber of commerce in associated industries of Arkansas you're recognized thank you Mr chairman thank you members of the committee This is a very fraught issue for all of this this is a very challenging. issue for business owners and managers. But I must tell you that these two bills and I'll go ahead and speak on sept nineteen seventy two and nineteen. These two bills are bad for business the business climates in Arkansas and I would urge you not to let our anger the fact that we're all to for the most part of set with the band administration for this sweeping. Potential mandate that likely will be imposed across the economy unless some court. Shoots it down but it's it's the strength of the ocean legislation the strength of the EOC legislation all of those would have to be undermined in order to prevent the implementation of that hundred employees are more mandate across the US economy. But that's that's the whole thing is by we have met that but at the same time we think it's even worse to intrude into the space of the freedom and. latitude of private business owners owners with customers in capital at risk and employees at risk to prevent them from doing everything they possibly can if they choose to do so. By imposing or putting the state in between them and their employees and their customers our state has long valued the Freedom of private businesses to make the decisions they think best for the health and safety of their workplace and to protect customers. And employees this bill strips private businesses of that right. Paradoxically or oddly the way the bill is structured and the way the federal rules will apply from OSHA and others. We're only going to end up affecting small businesses in Arkansas if these bills or a pass because the hundred plus employees. Businesses will all be covered. If the federal rules are a pale. If not then all this is moot. The inability to follow widely accepted health and safety guidance first and foremost puts employees and customers health and lives at risk and it puts employers at risk for costly negligence actions by employees and customers this body passed ACT five fifty nine and twenty twenty one providing business protection against tort liability for COVID related claims however a business is only protected if it complies not only with state guidelines but also federal guidelines issued by the CDC and CMS and ultimately under the current Specter of OSHA regulations as well as other deal well regulations H. B. nineteen seventy two. What's Arkansas employers in the difficult position of following current and forthcoming federal workplace safety laws and rules or violating federal laws and subjecting them to subjecting themselves costly fines and penalties OSHA has already issued millions in fines for failure to comply with federal COVID guidance their authority extends up to a fourteen thousand dollar fine for each violation a small business could easily be bankrupted and put out of business by running up a tab with OSHA on those funds at that rate. We're not just talking about big corporations although that's where all the attention seems to to fall our biggest finest most successful companies the ones catching all the flak in this conversation we're talking about small businesses for whom these kinds of Pat fines and penalties could be crippling the exemption process that allows for weekly testing or a yearly anybody test will not be consistent with federal guidelines and it will not be adequate to help employers prevent the spread of the virus to workers and maybe customers and that's what this is all about we are trying we're tying the hands of Arkansas businesses that want to make their own decision and how best to keep their people safe it's interesting to me maybe irritating or frustrating we're screaming bloody murder about a Biden administration mandate when what we're attempting to do with these laws is to impose a mandate from the state government. Furthermore opening unemployment benefits of two employees who knowingly violate workplace policy sets a dangerous precedent and is counter to basic tenants of labor law. Let me remind as a couple earlier speakers one just prior to me and representative Brian. Left the impression that somehow employees have paid for their unemployment benefits that is a total misunderstanding about unemployment benefits work these benefits are funded through a fuss Trust Fund under written strictly and solely one hundred percent by employer contributions so to jeopardize that fund and put new on anticipated or on on New expansions of unemployment benefits through this this law would would threaten the solvency of that fund over a period of time that's a purely one hundred percent employer paid cost it's not like social security we're employee pays have employer pays a. Employer pays all of that crossed. Let me remind us again that the national mandate only applies to a hundred plus employee businesses. Rules for all of this will be many weeks my gases at least six to eight weeks being written by the department of labor and there be challenges we will not even see that law go into effect for several months through the court appeals process there will be inevitable. Let me just finally make a broad statement that I speak in defense of big businesses big large businesses are successful businesses they grew from small businesses we would be foolish and imprudent that the best to continue to hammer on and sort of threaten a big businesses with new costs and new mandates that are not necessary so we urge you to vote against the bill to to vote against seventeen ninth nineteen seventy three we're and be happy to take any questions if there are any. We do have a couple questions representative Pilkington you're recognized for a question. The chairman Ladyman favorite as many as a Mr secretary So I'm hearing a lot from the workers in my district I haven't heard from any of the businesses in my community that they are opposes legislation or for this legislation they've been kind of mom on it but because of arts from so many workers my concern is that if we don't do something you know we're gonna have this mass access from the work force which I is bad for business and so has there been any sort of surveys or study about what we think the potential fallout will be of workers leaving the work force like this late young ladies might not yet young she's ACT or the SAT who who spoke you know I mean essentially the workers I mean do we know what kind of impact that will happen is if if nothing's done I'm I'm curious. But. I give I can give you an example of one large poultry processors will remain unnamed. Of who's who since who sense of identifying there and or or. Making a plane that they were going to impose a mandate have the unvaccinated people in their company from that point have already gotten vaccinated they're they're going ahead and people are making judgments people are saying you know I've really got a lot tied up in this job in this career I'm not gonna throw it over just because of. For whatever reason don't want to take the shot and they're exemptions available or deeply held religious beliefs and for help. Reasons of somebody's image immuno compromised who's who's not able with doctor's orders to take the vaccine but I'm very much in sympathy with representative first and I'm I'm baffled one people won't take the vaccine we we and our small office. Had a situation where we had to come to terms with this and I made it clear that we were gonna be one hundred percent vaccinated. We are. After some. Heart to heart conversations with. A couple of employees but we we can't jeopardize our members or guests who come to our office by having somebody who unbeknownst to them might be. COVID contagious but a symptomatic I'm paid by been through a COVID case my wife's been there a COVID case right after me. we've both been vaccinated I'm lined up to get my booster shot next month eight months after I got the the first one I'm. We have to win this war but we need to leave these decisions up to these companies some companies will choose to impose rigid requirements others will say. And we're going to do our best and and many of them are successfully incentivizing employees with money time off. Full coverage of any for any reaction a handful of them have had reactions lot of the part of the the unnamed poultry company run into as you probably know is running a ten thousand dollar week lottery for people who qualify and get bring in their vaccine card so there are all kinds of free will free enterprise normal business practice opportunities to to increase the vaccination right and we're working hard to do that. Well of. That's good Can you kind of explanations you are representative chamber and you have these conversations with these large big business employers what is their hesitancy with recognizing immunity as equal to the faxing I mean I I really haven't heard that. Articulated from big industry could you could you connect or to go whether or not I'm speaking here as a. I barely got through biology and let me put it that way okay I I was curious I don't I've never heard I thank them problems as knowing how of how effective or what level of immunity you I have and it changes daily we. Whatever munity we have either from a vaccine or from having recovered from a case of natural immunity that after fees over a period of time and you never know when you cross that line and suddenly become a threat to your fellow employees or people around. Family members so I think that's what. Push back on it the measure of of immunity okay the vaccine stronger. May not last long it is longer we want to but it's it beats the alternative. Thank you Mr thank you a representative Boyd you're recognized. Thank you madam chair thank you Mr look for being here today and I appreciate your testimony of I do have a question though it's a statistic do you have any idea how many employers less than one hundred employees have imposed the mandate on their employees in the State of Arkansas besides the state chamber I'm I'm assuming other under side do you want yeah a no I have no I have no idea I don't know that a look and but have no idea where that information might. I know there are a growing number. Actually in the hospitality field the restaurant the old where there's a lot of customer facing contact and and potential exposure people people want to feel safe when they go into a rest. People want to feel safe when they go into a hotel or go to a meeting or governor of a tourist attraction or a football game people want to feel like they're they're fairly safe and employers some employers want to make certain and do everything they possibly can others. struggling with. One follow up manager. Our Mr yeah Committee let me Inject something here you have follow up but. How to make your questions really more concise you know what we got forty five minutes I'm I have to make a decision here pretty soon whether the recess or come back tomorrow so be as brief as you can't get your point across you're recognized. Thank you are I respect that Mister chair of so the the question is then specifically it is probably yes or no it is it interesting that you know the president comes on TV and says Hey I need employers to mandate and then large employers seem to be the one that they gravitate to you know meeting that request amid does it feel a little politicized from that standpoint thank you. I would say everything about this entire. Pandemic the last eighteen months everything about every. Conversation I have with most of the people I come in contact. We're in a politically charged environment and I would urge you to air on the cot the side of caution. Slow down take a deep breath lots of this stuff is going to work itself out over the next few months. OSHA is gonna come out with something or they won't they may not you know they may find that it's too difficult to to write a set of rules I've been a part of a group that has provided to the department of labor and the secretary of labor personally three page three pages of single spaced questions about one of these rules need to cover. How do you account a hundred is a hundred and one place or a hundred in the company. Is it. You know the just they're all kinds of really down in the weeds questions of god we work through it all through before they can even get close to writing or and that's gonna take some time. But every day more and more people are getting vaccinated every day more and more people are being released from the hospital recovering from it as a result of their vaccination. And good care. And see road that we're all. Applaud in the in the healthcare system but the healthcare systems is that they have the right to make that decision if I make the wrong decision run off after employees it'll be on the them they'll pay the price for their institutions will but they need to have the right to make or not make that decision. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr so you're here testifying against this on the premises or telling employers what they can and can't do strongly against this I can only assume that you're also against a federal mandate I'm telling them what to do excellent so what have you done to fight back against that or what are you willing to do and in the future to fight back well as an organization for were involved in sports when a court challenge there but they don't. lots cross currents in this in this environment in this conversation but. If you pass this law and should puts out a rule let me help you. Employers are gonna bay ocean. Because of for the specter of a fourteen thousand dollar they find for each individual involved in the controversy is daunting for any business even a big business that's a pretty fast clip that the made run that. OSHA has a very heavy hand and a very broad charter but that's federal and there's nothing we can do about it at the state level so we've got to find out of state at the federal level and we're involved in that part. Okay yes we oppose the I'm asking the federal national okay one other thing I I ran the code tort liability for businesses in Arkansas and I have not regretted that until just now when maybe you implied and maybe I'm up took this from the implied that that could possibly be giving businesses protection from lawsuits when they require this vaccine because it is covid related that a fat and Porter employee has some type of symptom from that back saying that that that were protection Madam Floyer is the. I take that wrong so that I don't think so no that's it five if I hear you right I think the insurance we provided the employer tort protection if they require vaccine of their employee that employee has no recourse. This at the present time this is this is one of a myriad of of employment and conditions of employment. The employer today has the right to set that expectation just like the employer has that employee is injured from that back saying there's no recourse for the. Right. Representative mental you're recognized for a question. Thank you chairman Mr just a couple quick questions for you connect backside individual transmit the virus to other employees or customers in the store for was a retail again I'm not an epidemiologist I think I think though the numbers would tell you that that is. Mathematically and theoretically possible it is possible right this button that would you say is that why you gonna get your booster because of your immunities are failing that's where you're up for the booster I'm going to get a booster because I don't want that okay this. Do you know what I appreciate that but I am what I'm trying to say is I don't see what we're doing here and this is a compliment. Did you see the letter of the change of put out against is OSHA rules I think that we're going to fight against those pretty pretty severely would you not say so that we're gonna fight against these mandates this OSHA rules pretty severely have you read the letter the transgender colluding let's have put out there I think we have I think if you read the lease is pretty much a very strong stance against that I don't think there are employers at this point need to worry about that with a strong stance his attorney generals are taking I think you might wanna take a chance to read that that little that restaurant decided on to again ocean the long established I understand that but I would appreciate your retrieving that letter before get concerned about mandates that they say that the federal government has no rights at this point even pushed what they're doing I think I think is a dangerous move to extend the oceans ranged inspections disease correct from an ocean up until now has dealt with the workplace accidents physical actions equipment failure there to guard electrical. Right now rise balls representative Bentley we need to move on follows I'm sorry just one short follow up thank you do you know how many open positions or how many people how many open positions we have running on that right now how many how many employees are we needing in the State of Arkansas right now best guess that we've got is about seventy thousand seventy the the last thing we do is loosen would you not agree with that sorry and the last thing we do is have some more people unemployed would you not agree with that. Well I think at the end of the day the number of people who might become unemployed because of this is pretty pretty small and won't affect that much but the good news is there a lot of employment opportunities available to nearly anybody that's willing to show up. Thank you Sir. All right see no further questions thank you thank you for your comment a much appreciated. Okay speak for the bill robin Robinson. You would please come forward. Thank you in committee I remind you make your question specific and I would ask that Your your answers to any committee questions would be as specific as possible please please introduce yourself and who you represent thank you for taking my question or my comments I'm robin Robinson and I live in Alexander common officers and operate a business owner okay we'll let Michael little closer and your. You're recognized yes okay better thank you well I want to say a couple things about this vaccine this is a list of how long it took for hepatitis polio B. measles that have be have a HIV and all of them the least amount of amount of time a vaccine needed this is from the CDC website or whatever. The least amount of years it took for it to be safe for me and my babies to take. Of all these vaccines the least was twelve years twelve years to make sure it doesn't hurt my babies. Six months for COVID nineteen and now you're telling me I'm going to be forced to take an experimental drug this is not a regular maxi this is a different kind of vaccine it's never been used before in the history of man and you are forcing us in your fixing to force my babies to take a backseat y'all better have it on your consciences which you're going to do to the human race in America it is not right and then to flippantly not recognize my communities my god given immunities are much stronger than any of these vaccines. And. You are just he is so easily saying will take the vaccine what the vaccine why are you afraid of me not taking the backseat if that works for you why do I have to get forced to get it that is the basic logical thing I'm talking to you about I'm not not not to get it if you want to risk your life in your future amenities with this vaccine. This is America you should be able to do that but you should be able to force an experimental drug this is an atrocity and it will be on all the girls consciousness for not standing up to this vaccine I'm not against vaccines at all I think they protect us from a lot of bad things but this baxeen you don't even know what's going to happen to my babies in the future My Baby My Babys ovaries my babies anything you don't know. And for her to tell you that nobody's really had adverse effects of this vaccine is a lie people are dying from the backseat they're getting blood clots my son might have to take the vaccine to keep his job and he probably will because he likes his job bullied into this he could get endocarditis for the rest of his life it's six percent higher chance for a boy especially boys nineteen to thirty five to get endocarditis they are collected all these little things on the internet and try to figure out which is true but I'm looking at reality and people dying or getting adverse effects to this I'm needed vaccine for young people they don't from backs this code the other big huge atrocity is y'all in the government have scared to death doctors to give us pretreatment when you get when you should go demand ivermectin or Hydroxychloroquine FDA approved drugs for fifty years they haven't killed people like this vaccine has and we survive COVID ninety nine percent of the time with no treatment. The the little bit that well I don't see a little bit two hundred or five hundred thousand people that have died of covered is an atrocity but it's because you did not treat them early and that is the atrocity and you all have responsibilities. We voted for you to fight and protect us this is not protecting us and now they're just making us take our eyes off the mark which is this vaccine is not the answer herd immunity all viruses leave a new strain always come my body has immunity now I had covid when I get the next strand my body's going to be stronger for it this is historically scientific stuff and I'm not a scientist but I know that and what I want you all to do is consciously know what you're doing today this bill is just one of them but you need to stand up and fight this administration for bullying us into stuff that they know is not good for us and and I tell you in ten years you might be very sorry you've got the vaccine or force it on other people and that and I really want you to understand that it is it is criminal to not treat people early with COVID and then complaining the people are filling up the hospitals at the very beginning I was saying why are you treating people. And you were my doctor is scared to death to give me he gave me a fifteen minute spiel out of what it can do to me and then when you get cholesterol medicine it's a horrible medicine for your body needs how you fifteen minutes of the side effects it was it was absurd he was scared to death to give me Hydroxychloroquine. Unknown safe drug and it keeps millions of people out of the hospital probably from death I feel like they should be lawsuits about that for negligence and our medical community but it goes straight to our government from from not letting our doctors do their job scared now I mean when you get the regular flu you go away with a seat at least my brother's sixty five got COVID of that have the vaccine sounded horrible. Yeah what they said the home and take zinc. My gosh. You'll need to do something it's in y'all's hands for sure right now. Your doctor I'm just curious why was he afraid to get it all said it could be adverse affect me and come back on him you've scared physicians you scared them based the mandates and doctors a space. They don't offer it up to you they want you to get this experimental vaccine that doesn't work because. The people I know that's gotten the vaccine shot still get covid and you can't you can easily say they get less symptoms some people I know that have never been vaccinated get less symptoms so even that is a miscommunication and disinformation of the vaccine how beautifully powerful the six month approval is of the vaccine that has no right to be injected in my babies at all. It's completely an atrocity what's happening in the United States of America I have to go to other countries to find out more truth than I get from my own government. It's an atrocity all right seeing no questions thank you for your. Really not much to say about that. Okay speak against the bill. Jody and threat. You would come for. Please introduce yourself and who you represent. Hi NO the hours late so I will be quick I'm Jody enter it on me executive vice president of the Arkansas hospital association you're recognized I'm the quickest thing I'd like to say is not only do hospitals have to comply with OSHA standards that Mr that talked about but we also have to comply with Medicare conditions of participation all state and federal law and Medicare conditions of participation are kind of hard to understand unless you're in the hospital business and we have been for infectious disease we have them for visitation we have been providing reporting whether it's flu COVID at cetera and we have not seen the Medicare conditions of participation for Kobe vaccine of our employees yet usually when I come and speak to you I can tell you what the Medicare conditions of participation is how we are expecting to comply with it cetera and so forth in this particular case I'm coming to you had a hat in hand saying Hey we don't know what those will be yet but we will have to comply and we'll also most of our hospitals also have more than one hundred employees so the OSHA standards and sometimes they're issued as a temporary emergency standards will also the if they're different from the Medicare conditions of participation will have to weigh and balance those and if those are also different from federal law or from state law excuse me then we'll have to balance that with the preemption and to proceed clauses that are pretty much dictate that federal law will control so I will say at a minimum patient safety and employee safety is absolutely paramount I do applied to healthcare workers here today who are in fact still healthcare heroes for being at the front lines and doing what they could to take care of our patients early on testimony today said we didn't have appropriate tools we didn't have appropriate PP that could not be further from that is absolutely one hundred percent sure. And we also didn't have a vaccine and so at every turn our hospitals are doing everything they can to make sure our patients are as safe as possible as tools become available as personal per tech department becomes available at anything we can do to protect our patients and protect one another when we're in the workplace we want to do that so we definitely are asking for the opportunity for hospitals to be able to evaluate their own hospitals in their own personnel and make the best decisions for what needs to happen for patient safety within their facilities you all know some hospitals have declared that there is a mandate most of whom have accommodations I tied to those but most hospitals in Arkansas do not yet have a COVID mandate there are opportunities for employment if it if an employee does not want to stay at a hospital where a mandate is currently in place I with that I'll answer any questions that you might have. Representative Bentley you're recognized. Thank you thank you Joe thank you telling you have any information on what the employee to patient transfer rate has been to co would you have any size of showing that employees have transmit code to a patient we have any information on that I don't have that scientific data either the department of health will or the centers for disease control might have that and any go to Lee representative Bentley we know that that transmission right a small and one of the reasons that transferase transmission rate is small is because we do everything possible and and doing everything that we know that becomes available that protect patients more than what we had available resources to do prior to we take advantage of that to move the ball forward to make sure no matter what we're doing inside of our facilities we keep patients and their protection paramount. One more quick follow up that's okay I'll just make this my quick question We know that we have a lack of nurses a series like them to do not see this might create is a complete public health disaster if we lose ten eleven percent of our health care staff here how can we afford to possibly do that. We are concerned about that and I I do believe that some hospitals have chosen not to force and mandate at this time for Kobe vaccination trying to make those accommodations in those considerations we're also always cognizant of what the federal government will pass down on us to say Hey we we the federal government are enforcing a mandate to you here are the things that can allow you to accommodate folks who are unable to receive that mandate and and able to receive that vaccine so we weigh all of those things all of the time one of the things I hear from my members is that vaccinated workers quarantine last time and so if a vaccinated worker quarantines last time in some instances that actually means you have more people working on the floor instead of outpouring teen with the virus. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr I know that some hospitals already require some vaccines and but maybe that's handed down from federal government maybe is not the most hospitals have an exemption policy for those vaccines and how will the COVID exception policy differ from those or do you know that we don't know that and you're correct most hospitals do have exemption policies medical philosophical religious absolutely and when reasonable accommodations can be made we make those reasonable accommodations this one is a little different because that COVID vaccine guidance both from the OSHA standard for over a hundred employees and from the Medicare conditions of participation we really don't know them yet representative Ferguson said earlier that we know something's coming and a hammer that Medicare and Medicaid use against hospitals is that we won't let you be reimbursed for caring for Medicare and Medicaid patients anymore which then travels down also to commercial insurance companies to sometimes what contract with hospitals to take care of patients and pay for patient care if in fact you're not enrolled as a Medicare provider so there are lots of knock on effects and I will remind you we have twenty three counties in Arkansas that don't have a hospital at all access to care is supremely important if you have clinical systems that have more than a hundred employees and them at their also subject to losing access to care for Medicare and Medicaid patients so all of those things come into play to where I'm always going to be an advocate for patients I'm always going to be an advocate for hospitals and it's really important to waive the ability for hospitals to evaluate their own resources and make their own decisions about what's best for patients and their. Jett following. Quick follow up. Click on my end anyway are you required to have those that scene the the exemption policies in place and if you don't have those if your required you don't have a miss your funding at risk there as well. I will absolutely check in today that I know we have to have a medical exemption in place a part of that is that disability act protection I think Gina comes into place at which is an acronym that all also get you that information about but we do our very best to comply with all of those things from a federal perspective because we fully understand not everyone is medically able to receive a vaccine whether it's this one or many others. Representative Wardlaw you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr Jonah and what's gonna happen if this bill passes. And federals come out in the to receive Medicare Medicaid you gotta have the vaccine yet we're telling people from the state level that they don't have to do this what is that going to create in a hospital world we are the medical world across this is the scene you'll certainly create a communications problem and we've seen this happen before and many times we set up an expectation that this state has the ability to direct a certain things to happen and then when the federal government doesn't allow that to happen then we run into issues to where folks have a hard time knowing and which standard to follow in the hospital world what will happen is because of that United States constitution article six section to the supremacy clause that federal law will preempt what this state law is as well the federal regulation so when those Medicare conditions of participation comment if Medicare says that shall do acts that shall make sure that your employees are mandated if we don't do it we're in trouble right we'll see if we could still go to federal court and we could be in trouble what they use as an incentive for us to do what we're supposed to do according to them is they'll take away our money if hospitals close in Arkansas. Then our ability to take care of the seven thousand and seventy three in patients that we had at midnight tonight. Substantially is diminished access to care is diminished people who are employed in the healthcare facilities in in in the healthcare world is diminished. And people suffer we already have less than forty hospitals in Arkansas that deliver babies now so as access becomes more and more constrained we run into opportunities where we have to really balance if you will our ability to care for our candidates. So Mr follow. Quick follow up so what you're saying is is that state legislators gone tell these people one thing the federal government you know we we sat around here all day we've heard that we don't have the rules yet but I'm rules that we have an executive order that is there it is valid this says if you take Medicare Medicaid funding you will be vaccinated is that I don't want you say true is not my question but. Why should we have to wait on rules when we know the executive order and by the way I I don't agree with one at A. O. to an ounce of this White House is decisions but I also understand that I have to protect my district and their jobs and we know that's going to happen we know the rules are coming so what we do to protect our Kansans if this bill passes in knowing what they have to follow because they're going to follow the federal guidelines if I hear you correctly yes Sir we're forced to follow the federal guidelines and you know a lot of things have happened since March eleventh of twenty twenty right we've had to follow many different administrative guidelines they've changed over time some of them have competed with one another we had to do our best to pick which thing to follow and paramount to all of those things has been question number one what's the safest thing to do for the patient what's that thing that we have the most access to as far as resources go to protect that patient how can we protect our health care workers in our healthcare workforce and keep them going and then how can we can protect our community at large all of those things come into play the feds don't always get it right I can tell you right now we're fully expecting the said guidelines to be different from the Medicare conditions of participation at the federal level this state law if it passes just adds a layer of complexity on something that already will be hard to implement. All right single further questions thank you for your comments. UP next person speak for the bill runny Swarts. You would come forward. Arkansas area. That's okay. James leach did you want to speak on the other bill as well. Okay come for please. Please introduce yourself and who you represent. My name is James leach I'm here to represent myself but mainly my wife my wife works for Arkansas Blue Cross and blue shield who has just recently sent an email that they are now mandating they're phasing in the vaccine mandate it'll be effective October first just a couple of points that I have About that my wife and are not into Baxter's I don't have a problem with vaccines if you want to go get it if that's what you want to do to me this is much more of a personal choice issue I do not feel in a company has the right to mandate my wife to take this vaccine that has only been in existence for less than two years as an the the lady before me said and we don't know what kind of long term effects a single have because we haven't had the time or the opportunity to see what this is going to do. I've heard a lot of people compared and and there's been a lot of representation from the health department from commerce and from everyone else about the big companies whose here representing the individuals whose here representing the nurse who got let go and who who has to now go out and find a job and let's hope she doesn't see night doesn't end up flipping burgers who's who's here to represent my wife and my family. We stand a chance for you guys are all waiting and and Mister Zuck wants us to wait until everything settles out and see what happens we don't have that kind of time guys aren't worth talking this could be in three months my wife could be faced with losing her job I think we could be faced with losing half of the income in my family we can be loop faced with losing her contributions to our retirement. I don't have time for this crap to sell out I just don't I wish we all did. Sorry I've got notes here and this is my wife's phone so. The longer we wait and the longer you guys wait and I understand the position you're ranting I meant to the balance what the federal government's going to do versus what we're asking you to do not get that it's a hard position that's what you ran for is to take on the used to take these positions and to making this decision. I'm asking you to do that but I'm asking you to do that and take into account what's going to happen to individuals I've like I said offered people here talking about is what's going to happen to the big corporations Walmart stores about no matter what price is going to survive no matter what. Mercy hospital Arkansas Bendis Arkansas Blue Cross and blue shield they're going to survive no matter what. I don't know that my wife and I will. I don't know we don't know what's coming in the next three or four months. I'm going to answer questions has amassed already of me why don't I get a vaccine was my problem with that we'll first all is not a vaccine vaccines in my mind to my understanding of banking is supposed to give you munity or saying the fact that now that doesn't happen if you get this shot. Eventually you're gonna have to get a booster but you can still catch you still get the disease. You can still spread the disease and the disease it doesn't prevent you from spreading it. Well then why am I going to get an experimental drug put in my body if you can't tell me this going to keep me safe because. Just because big pharma suddenly as the hero and wants me to take this shot. The last thing I would say is this. I always also hear people talk about following the science at one point in time science thought the best way to treat a chronic disease was to believe the patient to get rid of the common cold bad blood. When I was in junior high I watched a film made by a bunch of scientists that were telling me that in thirty years the earth would be a slag of ice and we would all be dead. That didn't happen either science also has told us that in the fifties and sixties it was legitimate to give pregnant women thalidomide for their pregnancies for their nausea if you don't know how that went look up on Google children of thalidomide. Guys I don't have a problem science. The problem is how that science is being interpreted by different people that we are all being asked to listen to. Thank you that's it we do have a question representative Miller you're recognized it's not a question Mister chair just a. Motion if you'd hear it okay I'll take it in just a moment. So thank you for your comments thank you. All right we have no one else signed up to speak for against this bill we do have some folks here that are signed up for the next bill so representative Brian you're recognized close the Bill. Thank you Mr chairman of those great testimony on both sides I've I wrote down several things that I can address in an effort to save time with I want to dress them all that may be a moot point what I would like to say is there is there's a lot of discussion on the future changes that would make this bill better the cochaired said and few other members of said I would agree to amend those on the Senate side but I would like to to a close from a bill and and and ask for a good vote today. What's the will of the committee. representative Miller I'm sorry you're recognized for motion. I have a motion do pass their second. It is the only the second I got one anyway So the motion on the floor is do pass any discussion on the motion and let me tell you Committee we have to adjourn at about five to seven minutes so is there any discussion on this motion. Seeing none no discussion. All right motion on the floor is to pass. H. B. nineteen seventy two all in favor signify by saying aye. All opposed nay. So the ayes have it graduation represent your bills pass. Committee we're gonna have to adjourn. Hold your hands up again I gotta have three C. two. I see to okay I see three. All right call the roll. Representative Wardlaw. Representive Eubanks. Representive McGee. Representive Johnson. Representative Miller. Representative Payton. Representative Bentley. Representive great. Representative Gonzalez. Representative Boyd. Yes yes. President will your yes yes. Representive Allen. Representative Alan. Representative Coleman. Representative Coleman. Representative Pilkington. Representive wing. Representive wing. Representative Penzo yes. Representative pairing. Representative Davis. Representative Klaus. Vice chair Ferguson. Your. Congratulations represented by your bill is passed. Committee of audience please please follow our rules let's not allow them. Committee thank you for your comments we're going to adjourn now we will meet tomorrow morning at eight AM in this room to hear the second bill so we'll meet tomorrow morning at eight o'clock we are adjourned.