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Arkansas Legislative Council (ALC)

November 21, 2025 ·9:00 AM ·Room A, MAC ·49:57
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Unknown speaker 0:00
Thank you. Thank you.
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Speaker 5 1:00
Thank you.
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Unknown speaker 1:30
Thank you. Thank you. All right, members, if you could go ahead and take your seats.
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 3:00
Members, if you can go ahead and take your seats, we'll get
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Speaker 13 3:06
this started. I'm going to give him 10 seconds
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 3:27
and I'm getting my hand. All right, members, we're going to call this meeting of Arkansas. Council to order. Good morning. Welcome to Arkansas Legislative Council. At this time, I'd like to recognize Senator Petty for the prayer to get us
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Senator Jim Petty Unverified 3:55
started. All right. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, we just we humbly bow before you in this busy time. And as we come up on the season of Thanksgiving, first of all, we thank you for your son who died for us. And we pray, Heavenly Father, as we conduct the business today, that it would do we would do so without selfish ambition and that everything that we do would do for serving the people and the citizens of arkansas and we just ask that you would allow us to do so and to do so with calmness and and wisdom that comes from heaven we ask all of this in your son's name amen our members
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Speaker 23 4:30
at this time i'd like to see if
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 4:38
we can get a motion to adopt the meetings from the october 17 meeting we have a motion second all those in favor signify by saying aye Opposed? It has passed. At this time we're going to recognize Senator Hammer for a point of personal privilege.
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Senator Kim Hammer Unverified 5:16
go ahead thank you I'm not sure Senator Clark's in the room but if he is he'd come forward members thank you for allowing this point of personal privilege for Senator Clark myself and also for our Senate pro tem and we would like to present the Senate citation let me just read it in its entirety. It will help you understand better. It says, whereas John Manuel Feltz, commissioner of the Arkansas Post-Prison Transfer Board, has demonstrated the highest standards of professionalism, excellence, integrity, and dependable leadership throughout his career and has served under four governors, both Democrat and Republican. Upon his retirement in January of 2026, Mr. Feltz will be the longest-serving parole commissioner in Arkansas history and one of the longest-serving parole commissioners nationwide. And whereas John has created and shaped successful state parole policies and procedures, public safety measures, and reintegration programs, he was the vice chairman of the Southern Regional of Association of Parole Authorities International, better known as APAI, and worked on key collaboration with criminal justice and correction leaders across the nation. He received the 2025 Ben Baer Award from APAI in recognition for his local, state, and national impact in the field of parole, and whereas the members of the Arkansas Senate wish to join Senator Alan Clark and Senator Kim Hammer expressing appreciation to John Manuel Feltz for his more than 34 years of exemplary commitment in his role. He is held in the service of the state of Arkansas and wishing him well in the years ahead. This is pursuant to the motion of Senator Alan Clark, Senator Kim Hammer, also signed by Senator Bart Hester Pro Tem of the Senate. And just on a personal note, I've known John for many years, and we have a good friendship. But the fact that he has served the length of time that he has and is retiring after a distinguished career, we felt that this was good to bring a Senate citation to recognize his years of service to the state upon his retirement. And if you would, would you please join me in acknowledging his years
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Speaker 31 7:53
of service? Mr. Chairman, if John would
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Senator Kim Hammer Unverified 8:04
like to say something, would the chair allow?
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Speaker 36 8:09
I'll take a seat while I do. Good morning. I'm just, I can't think of a better word than flabbergasted by this. And it's been a pleasure over the 28 years being on the Arkansas Post-Prison Transfer Board to be associated with many of you and your predecessors. And knowing that we have the best state in the United States, bar none. And our leadership, our governors, can certainly testify to that effect. I think that we've all had great leadership. And so I want to say thank you very much, Senator. Thank you very much also for this certificate. And I would just say Godspeed to you. Thank you very much.
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 9:18
- Senator Hamer, thank you for that. Members, that takes us to item D. This will be the presentation of the October Revenue Report with Dr. Carlos Silva. - Thank you.
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Speaker 42 9:48
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Carlos Silva, Bureau of Legislative Research, and I'm here to present the October 2025 monthly general revenue report. There's the first month for our second quarter of the fiscal year. We gross revenue collections year to date at $2.65 billion, have an increase of $14.1 million dollars or half a percent increase there in our gross collections. As we look down, we have a $2.63 billion collected last fiscal year to date in that comparison. As we look into net general revenue available for distribution for this month, we have $2.27 billion. That's an increase of $41.4 million compared to last fiscal year to date, those first four months, and that's a 1.9% increase compared to the October 2024. As we look into page number one, we saw that the difference that we still expect with individual and corporate income tax refunds, we have the decline there. And as we move to page number two, what we have a cumulative deviation from DF&A net revenue available for distribution forecast, we saw again an increase of $16.6 million for this month, which is $90.5 million above the forecast for the agents from May this year. As we move into page number three and page number four and the top of page number five, we have our general revenue collections in detail there for the month of October and the cumulative, and for the other pages, we have the special revenue collections. As we look into what the changes from this month, we start to receive again data from the federal government. We have some updates, have first update for jobs report yesterday, better than expected, which is always great. Consumer confidence has been going down this month once again. But as we look into the state of Arkansas, initial unemployment claims and continued claims still steady. With that, I will take any further questions. Thank you,
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 12:08
Dr. Silver. Members, any questions? Seeing no questions.
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Senator Fredrick J. Love Unverified 12:14
Senator DeLove, you're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm not going to ever skip asking questions. So here's the question I have, Dr. Silver. So you said the jobs report was better than expected. I didn't get a chance to review the jobs report, so can you give us a rundown of
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Speaker 42 12:32
the jobs report? Yeah, yeah. So the jobs report came out. That was September jobs report. So we had the delay in some of the reports. We have 119,000 jobs national level. That's what we have here. That was better than expected. When we look at ADP, we were looking to the private data sets in the last few months because we didn't have the government jobs were lower, a lot lower. So for the month of September, those numbers were better than expected. As we look into previous months, as we look into August, we have some adjustment there, which brought the jobs declined there for the month of August. But for the month of September, we have the number that were better than improved. As we look into October and November, still unsure whether or not we're going to have a report for October. But we're going to be looking into November to see how that is going to continue and whether we're going to see some increase in jobs in the national level here.
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Senator Fredrick J. Love Unverified 13:30
All right, and then you said consumer confidence is down. How do you predict that's going to impact
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Speaker 42 13:37
our state budget? So that's a national level. So what we're talking about is how people are doing generally, so it gives an understanding to the members on how things are moving. But if you want to, I can dig deeper a little bit into how the overall Arkansas is feeling. But here, what we're looking at is see how the nation's feeling because also it has an impact in the state of Arkansas. Okay, I appreciate that.
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 14:00
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Senator. Members, any other questions? All right, seeing none, thank you, Dr. Silva, for the presentation. Members, that takes us to item E. I
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Senator Ben Gilmore Unverified 14:15
recognize my co-chair, Senator Ben Gilmore. You're recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The executive subcommittee met yesterday and reviewed and approved emergency rule for DHS related to the SNAP program. Subcommittee also approved revisions to the MAC security policy to account for the state police assuming control over the security of the MAC building. Copy the revised security policy is attached to the subcommittee report. I move adoption of this report, Mr. Chair. Thank
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 14:38
you, Senator. Members, any questions on this item? All right, we have a motion to adopt. We have a second. Thank you. Second, any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. That takes us to item F, and I'm going to recognize Representative Lane Jean. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
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Representative Lane Jean Unverified 15:02
The subcommittee of rules administration met yesterday, November 20th. The subcommittee filed two quarterly reports. The subcommittee received agency updates on outstanding rulemaking from the 23 and 25 regular session. and the subcommittee also accept a recommendation of group three agencies concerning extension of rules from the 2017 and 2021 session. All rules were reviewed and approved of as noted in the report. I move adoption
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 15:30
of this, uh, report. All right. Thank you representative members. Any questions on this item? All right. Seeing none. Do we have a motion? Do we have a second? Second. Any discussion? Seeing none. All those in favor signify by saying aye. opposed the ayes have it that takes us to item f4
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Representative Dwight Tosh Unverified 15:55
representative dwight tosh you're recognized thank you thank you mr chair the uh the game and fish and the state police subcommittee we met on monday the subcommittee heard discussion regarding rules and regulations for the upcoming duck season from the game and fish commission the subcommittee also heard discussion regarding concealed and open handgun carry laws in state parks from the attorney general's office and the Department of Parks and Heritage and Tourism I move for adoption of this report I remember you've heard the report we have a motion
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 16:25
the second into discussion members any questions on that item before we go further all right seeing none we have a motion and a second any discussion seeing none all those in favor signify by saying aye opposed the eyes have it report is reviewed and it takes us down to item number seven hospital medicaid and developmental disabilities and we're gonna recognize
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Senator Jane English Unverified 16:50
senator jane english thank you the hospital medicaid and developmental disability study committee met on monday at the department of human services in little rock the subcommittee heard testimony on the following items overview of daily operations and update on reimbursement rates under the living choices assisted living waiver by dhs The subcommittee met again on Thursday at the Arkansas Workforce Center in Little Rock to hear testimony regarding the daily operations and processing procedures.
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 17:18
I move the adoption of this report. Thank you, Senator. Members, any questions? Seeing none, we have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? The item will be reviewed.
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Senator Jonathan Dismang Unverified 17:38
That takes us down to item number 11, Pierre. I recognize Senator Dismayne. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The peer subcommittee met on Tuesday, November 18th. The subcommittee received reports, reviewed requests, and approved the following. Various temporary appropriation, American Rescue Plan Act appropriation, Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act appropriation, and a restricted reserve fund transfer. Two items in the report were held for Council. A1, an appropriation request for the Arkansas School for Mathematics, Sciences, and the Arts for operations and g16 an appropriation request for the department of agriculture to make a grant for the lake maumelle watershed since the meeting questions have been answered regarding to a1 and then as far as g16 the department of agriculture is pulling that down for from consideration today i move to adopt item a1 and adopt the rest of the report
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 18:24
our members you've heard the report are there any questions i'm seeing no questions we have a motion we have a second we have a second any discussion seeing none all those in favor signify by saying aye opposed the ayes have it takes
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Speaker 70 18:47
us down to item 12 review senator blake johnson review subcommittee met on tuesday and reviewed methods of finance discretionary grants one alternative delivery construction procurement one agency ratification one RFQ request and services contracts three contacts were held pending further information from the agencies and members have released their holes under construction contracts it was contract 10 University Arkansas ASMSA and an Agricultural Plus was held until a full legislative meeting under out-of-state contracts. Contract number one for a public service commission with Daymark Energy Advisors and also contract two, Department of Commerce, AEDC, with Boston Consulting Group were both held until full legislative council. The subcommittee approved a member disclosure for Jim Petty, Senator Jim Petty from the Arkansas Development Finance Authority and Black River Technical College request to lease two motor vehicles. After the subcommittee meeting, staff from the Department of Health requested a correction on the purpose statement from item C1.2 in the discretionary grants. The purpose statement originally submitted by the agency was incorrect, and they have provided a new description, which is in your packet. Late yesterday, staff received a request from DHS to remove item D2, a request for RFQ approval from consideration. I move for the adoption of this report, except for item D2, the RFQ request from DHS, and include the review of previously held contracts and the replacement of the purpose statement for the health discretionary grant and pull out, pull the out-of-state contract number 8, DHS-DCFS,
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Speaker 72 20:58
with evident change for a separate consideration.
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 21:04
All right, members, you've heard the report. Are there any questions? I'm going to recognize Senator Petty before we take a
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Senator Jim Petty Unverified 21:14
vote. You recognize Senator Petty? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was just going to state for the record, because I have an item on there, I would be abstaining from vote on
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 21:22
this item. Duly noted. Thank you, Senator Petty. Members, any questions on this report? Seeing none, we have a motion. We have a second. Second. Any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by
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Speaker 70 21:35
saying aye. aye opposed guys have it chair I would like to have DCF s to come to the table for a separate answer answer separate questions on the contract that was pool all right on the way Good morning.
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 22:27
If you would just introduce yourself for the record and then we'll get on to the
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Speaker 78 22:33
questions. Good morning. Tiffany Wright, Director for the Division of Children
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Chair Unverified 22:35
and Family Services. And Sarah Cunningham, Office of Procurement. Representative Rose, you're recognized.
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Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified 22:46
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm over here on your right behind Representative Berry. Thank you for joining us today and taking the time to answer some questions. I want to thank you for your work. DCFS is an important component to what we do as a state. I appreciate your work, especially in foster care and adoption. The questions I'm going to ask today are serious because I believe they're grounded in the priority of child safety. This contract amendment that we're looking at expands, to my understanding, vendor authority in some of the most serious and sensitive stages of child safety. And so I want to discuss that this morning. To confirm for the record, I submitted some questions through BLR to understand the scope of the amendment. And prior to this amendment, did evident change oversee hotline screening or investigative fidelity in Arkansas? No, they did not. And should this amendment be passed, the new responsibilities over hotline screening, investigative fidelity, calibrating the SDM hotline tool, and coaching investigators would now be under their authority, is that correct?
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Speaker 87 24:04
Yes, they would be walking alongside the division in regards
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Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified 24:09
to that. So these are serious expansions of authority, and they go right to the front end of our child protection system. And so I also want to know, is there any other vendor that is involved statewide in SDM calibration or structured decision-making, investigative fidelity, guidance, QSPR reviews, safe measure dashboards, CQI reporting, or is this now all under the umbrella of one vendor, evident change? This
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Speaker 87 24:44
will all fall under one vendor, evident change. Does
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Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified 24:50
DCFS have any independent entity or anybody outside the vendor that validates whether evident changes, tools, scoring, or interpretations are accurate and unbiased? No. We would receive the
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Speaker 78 25:07
reports back, review them, ask questions, so we may do some of our own validation and
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Speaker 87 25:13
asking questions back, but they would be overseeing the reviews and providing us that feedback based on their reviews.
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Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified 25:23
So moving forward, excuse me, for hotline investigations, for risk scoring, for CQI, data interpretation, we're effectively reliant on the same vendor for both the tools and the evaluation of whether those tools are working? Essentially, they're
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Speaker 87 25:48
grading their own homework. No. So they're grading how the state is implementing the work. So how they brought the tools,
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Speaker 91 25:57
we use the tools to help support decision-making. They're evaluating the division and how the division is utilizing the tools and implementing the tools that we
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Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified 26:08
have. The tools that we are sourcing through them. That's correct. The tools that we're paying them for, correct? Correct. So this contract amendment is for, I don't know, $375,000, something along those lines. Since 23, I think this contract has been somewhere around $5 million. I think there's a second contract that review may have looked at back in June. But we've been in business with them since
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Speaker 87 26:40
2018, it sounds like. Yes, when we started implementing and changing practice within the division, so one side of evident change is the tools. The other side of their business is evaluation of the tools. So it is different teams. And so when we started systems work, they came into our state with these different sources of tools and data
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Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified 27:08
management. So this involvement with the hotline and investigative fidelity, this is new for them. So they brought us. Excuse me. It's new for them in Arkansas. So they
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Speaker 87 27:25
brought the structured decision-making tool to the hotline. Now we're asking them to evaluate the use of that tool and how it's
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Speaker 91 27:34
been implemented and what needs to be improved
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Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified 27:39
and provide feedback around that. So I want to establish a baseline. Would you agree that any vendor involved in hotline screening or investigative decisions needs to align with Arkansas law or Arkansas legal definition of child abuse? Yes. Would you also agree that Arkansas law is clear with respect to gender transition procedures on minors under the SAFE Act and related statutes that those procedures constitute abuse? Yes. So thank you for that. Now I want to ask about the vendors documented public policy positions. Were you aware that Evident Change publicly posted articles and argued that in texas that gender transition surgeries hormone therapies etc for minors should not be treated or investigated as child abuse i did not know that were you aware then i'm guessing not that those articles were later removed from evident changes website they're only accessible through article recovery, but during the RFP for the contract that was agreed to in 2023. I can give you a copy if you'd like afterwards. At any point, has somebody to your knowledge from DCFS or DHS instructed, requested, informed, evident change that it would be advisable to remove such articles from their website? I don't, I can't answer that. I don't know. There's a lot of questions regarding their positions on a number of issues. Representative Rose, we need to try to wrap
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 29:28
this up as quick as you can. Okay. If it's more discussion that we need to have with the group, we need to probably do that offline. But I'll let you finish up at this point. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair.
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Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified 29:43
So given the status publicly that the organization has posted on just this one issue and there are others, there is a very definite contradiction between their public opinions and the law that we have established here. And so what I want to bring this back to is what matters most is if a vendor believes particular harmful practice is not abuse it's very concerning on how that could influence their opinions and overarching themes with regards to the hotline and investigative fidelity these are real concerns because their decisions affect real families here in Arkansas and they sound like the go-to shop right now inside of DCFS for data for consulting for coaching for the hotline um i have one final question but i'd like to give you an opportunity to comment i don't i don't have a comment at this time um i move that we refer this contract back to the review subcommittee for uh further review and i appreciate the latitude mr chair all right members any
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 30:53
other questions on this item we have a motion to review send this back to the review subcommittee which we'll meet in december uh we have a motion there's a second we have a second any discussion all those in favor signify by saying aye aye
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Speaker 75 31:08
opposed the ayes have it yeah senator hester thank you uh
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Senator Bart Hester Unverified 31:17
hey thank you for being here i think it's really important that we're that we're doing the oversight and looking into this i didn't want you to get away without uh just like uh senator rose started thanking you for your endless work i don't know if there's anyone or anyone in the state that's doing work that is so impactful, so important, so critical that matters to you and your entire team. Thank you for the work you're doing. It's important that we get the contracts right and that we understand what all it is, but I didn't want you to get out of here without knowing how much we appreciate the work you're doing. Thank you, Senator Hester. Thank
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 31:48
you, Senator Hester. Thank you both for coming down. All right, members, that takes us to item 13, state insurance programs. That's going to be Representative Rick
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Representative Rick Beck Unverified 32:04
Beck. push your button. Thank you Mr. Chair. The state insurance program oversight committee met on Wednesday. The subcommittee reviewed the employees benefits division contract with public consulting group LLC. The subcommittee approved the prescription formularies and medical drug recommendations. The subcommittee approved the captive insurance programs investment policy statement. The subcommittee discussed the legislation, the legislative audits report on state and public employees' health benefits for the fiscal year ending June 20, 2024. I move for adoption of this report. All right, members, you've heard
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 32:48
the report. Are there any questions? Seeing none, we have a motion. Got any second? Second. All right, any discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? The ayes have it. Takes us to item 14, personnel committee. This would be Senator Breanne Davis. Representative Warren, can you give the report? All right, go ahead and push your button. You're recognized.
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Representative Les Warren Unverified 33:23
Hang on one minute. All right, you're recognized. The personnel subcommittee met Wednesday, November 19th and reviewed the requests and reports listed as items 1 through 8. The committee was provided a report as requested at the August meeting from the Employee Benefits Division regarding the usage of the positions provided to them for the Office of Property Risk. No items were held, and I respectfully move adoption of the report at the proper time thank you representative members any questions all right seeing none we
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 33:59
have a motion can I get a second we have a second any discussion seeing none all the papers say aye opposed the ayes have it members there are no reports on interim or special committees that takes us down to item H I'm gonna give you just a second to look at those communications all right members the only there's two items we may need to talk about the item three department of commerce economic development commission i need a motion to approve uh that request you have a motion can i get a second have a second any discussion seeing none all those in favor say aye aye and opposed the ayes
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Speaker 60 34:46
have it senator rice did you have anything you're recognized now
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Senator Terry Rice Unverified 34:56
you're recognized thank you uh i want to see if somebody from a id could come up on 3b h3b we could get someone from the insurance
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 35:24
department morning gentlemen if you would introduce yourself for the record and then we'll get on
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Speaker 125 35:34
with some questions jimmy harris a id commissioner good morning daniel holland a id pvm general counsel
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 35:39
All right. You guys have a report on the Rule 128, I believe, is
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Senator Terry Rice Unverified 35:47
what Senator Rice is asking about. I thank the gentleman for being here, and Commissioner Harris and I spoke earlier in the week, and I sent him a copy from a constituent I thought might be helpful. I would imagine some other people are getting some, But because of the lawsuit regarding the PBMs and CVS announcing they're pulling out of the state, I had a husband and wife, retiree couple, that received a corporate letter that says as of the end of the year that their prescription through SilverScript, which I have SilverScript on my Medicare, But theirs is going to be up, and they're telling me that – guys, if you can wait just a second. Theirs are going to be up with like $200 prescription they're getting now for $5 or $10. I know this is up in the air with the judicial system, but can you give us, as far as this body, something that we can give back to our constituents? because if they're going to be shut off, and that's what this letter says it into, if they're going to be shut off and not have an option because of the annual sign-up, can you give us any direction that we can give our constituents? Yeah, we received your letter.
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Speaker 130 37:12
I forwarded it on to CVS and asked for an explanation of exactly what they're talking about. I don't think they're necessarily pulling out. i think that was just a change that they're making in their network but when i get a response on that explanation i'll be sure and send that to you and we
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Speaker 131 37:30
can talk about it but it is possible they could go ahead and shut off depending on the judicial ruling it's possible
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Senator Terry Rice Unverified 37:42
yes sir okay but i and again i just trying to be preemptive in giving them options because can you answer this could they sign up, would they have an opportunity to sign up for something different if it did get
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Speaker 130 37:58
cut off at the end of the year? Yes, sir, they would be given an opportunity. I can't tell you exactly what that something different would be, but the plan in that situation would certainly negotiate some
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Senator Terry Rice Unverified 38:10
different options. Okay. I do greatly appreciate you checking up on that, and it's just something I think could affect across the state, so I wanted the body to know.
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Chair Unverified 38:21
Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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Senator Kim Hammer Unverified 38:26
Thank you, Senator. Senator Hammer, you're recognized. Thank you. A couple clarifications on the handout that we've got. It says on the first page of the exhibit we have, the preliminary review indicates that a reported NADAC percentages are generally accurate, but significant variations exist beneath those averages. Could you expand on that comment, but significant variations exist beneath those
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Speaker 130 38:49
averages? yes senator so our consultants found that there was a significant difference between reimbursement rates at national chain pharmacies versus would you mind pulling the mic a little closer please thank you yes senator sorry about that uh so our consultants found there was a significant difference between reimbursement rates at national chains versus independent pharmacies um so we're we're trying to to get our numbers in a in a place where we can isolate exactly how much that difference is and how that might affect an implementation of rule 128 so the the discrepancy they found was reimbursement rates between national chains and independence
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Senator Kim Hammer Unverified 39:28
okay and then on the next page says that you found a pbm division the pbm division has identified a third pbm appears to be operating without a license and open investigation how is it that a pbm could do business in arkansas without first being licensed and how is that addressed unless i'm misinterpreting the statement no sir
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Speaker 130 39:56
you're not misinterpreting it uh so the pbm would contract with plans and then they would begin adjudicating pharmacy claims they can begin that adjudication um you know within their internal systems without aid knowing aid will find out about it maybe through rule 128 reports or we could find out about it through complaints filed by pharmacies when we do get a complaint or rule 128 report with a pbm we're not familiar with we'll reach out to that pbm ask them for an explanation in these situations with the two that we found we immediately reach out and essentially ask how long they've been operating here without a license how many reimbursements they've adjudicated without a license and these penalty amounts will be based on the amount of adjudications that they performed while unlicensed so that's primarily how we find out about the pbms who are operating without a license but as far as how they are able to do that they can adjudicate those claims based on their contracts with health plans without the state knowing at least for a while okay and who are the two pbms you found operating without a license The two are RX Advance out of Massachusetts and Med One, I think, out of Iowa. Okay. Mr.
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Senator Kim Hammer Unverified 41:19
Chair, a question to the Chair, please. Okay. I saw on the bottom of the report, I think, and maybe they can weigh in, that I saw a three-week time frame that you're going to, a comprehensive summary of these findings will be completed within the next three weeks, and you're able to hold to that timetable given the holiday and everything? That's what I've been told. think that's going to be accurate mr chair will will uh chair have it on the agenda would put on the agenda and maybe they're already on the agenda to come back um and challenge them to have that report ready by the next alc in december yes sir it'll be on the agenda all
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Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified 41:56
right thank you appreciate it you bet senator dismay you're recognized thank you mr chairman um and it just
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Senator Jonathan Dismang Unverified 42:06
relates back to the reimbursement rates because i believe those are negotiated by the psaos for independent pharmacies typically um and so i was just a little bit curious of where we are on the psao registration rulemaking process i may have missed it but i mean i think that will be helpful to know who's all
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Speaker 130 42:29
engaged as we're gathering that information yes absolutely so we're working on drafting that licensing process it'll be very similar to the pbn licensing process. Significantly less entities to license. I think there's seven or eight PSAOs that operate in Arkansas, but we're working on that rule
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Senator Jonathan Dismang Unverified 42:47
now. And these are the ones that negotiate those lower reimbursement rates that we've
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Speaker 130 42:52
kind of noted. That's a lot of what they do. They're not negotiating. It's not a collective negotiation, but they do assist in that process. And that is the majority of PBM pharmacy contracts. There are some direct contracts specifically between the pharmacy and the pbm but the vast majority are psao contracts all right thank you
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Unknown speaker 43:35
Thank you.
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Speaker 109 44:05
see if he's going to turn you on
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Senator Justin Boyd Unverified 44:19
there you go thank you mr. chair so just just for clarity's sake um there was some discussion about discussion of terms in the contract does it really work that way are these more like contracts of adhesion where it's really take it or leave it one side the pbm
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Speaker 135 44:41
says these are the rules and you're I heard you. I would say that categorizing those as adhesion contracts is generally accurate.
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Senator Justin Boyd Unverified 45:05
and then just for some clarity it sounds like there's some thought that maybe there are rates that are stable and in these contracts of adhesion that it's that the pharmacy is told or even the chain is told this is what your rate's going to be but in my experience it's more like the rate is variable it can go up technically but generally it just goes down at the wheel of the pbm is that more reflective in the overall market of what you see
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Speaker 130 45:36
i think so i think that's accurate that's something that we're we're definitely dealing with with our affiliate limited scope examinations we we get those agreements in order to determine exactly how a prescription is is reimbursed to a pharmacy uh and there is a there's a lot of i guess you could say wiggle room in those contracts and there is a lot of variance in in the reimbursement rates and sometimes you can tie them to a contract and
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Speaker 135 46:06
sometimes they are wildly outside of the terms of that contract.
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Speaker 3 46:11
Thank you for that clarity. That's all we have on today.
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Unknown speaker 47:00
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Agenda

A. Call to Order.

3:29

B. Roll Call.

3:40

C. Approval of the Minutes of the Last Meeting, October 17, 2025.

4:39

D. Presentation of the October 2025 Revenue Report – Dr. Carlos Silva, Legislative Economist

9:39

E. Report of the Executive Subcommittee — Sen. Ben Gilmore, Rep. Les D. Eaves, Co-Chairs.

14:11

F. Reports of Standing Subcommittees:

14:55

G. Reports of Interim or Special Committees: (none)

34:09

H. Review of Communications:

34:13

I. New Business: (none)

J. New Interim Study Proposals and Interim Resolutions: (none)

K. Business Carried Over: (none)

L. Adjournment.

Documents

TitleTypePagesSource
Agenda — ARKANSAS LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL (ALC), Nov 21, 2025 Agenda 3 Official source ↗
Exhibit C - ALC Minutes of October 17, 2025 Exhibit 5 Official source ↗
Exhibit D - BLR October 2025 Monthly Revenue Report Exhibit 8 Official source ↗
Exhibit E - ALC Executive Report - November 20, 2025 Exhibit 10 Official source ↗
Exhibit F.01 - ALC Admin Rules Report 11-21-25 Exhibit 9 Official source ↗
Exhibit F.04 - ALC Game and Fish State Police Sbcmte Report Nov.17.2025 Exhibit 1 Official source ↗
Exhibit F.07 - ALC Hospital Medicaid Report 11-21-25 Exhibit 1 Official source ↗
Exhibit F.11 - ALC PEER Report 11-21-2025 Exhibit 3 Official source ↗
Exhibit F.12 - ALC Review Subcommittee Report for ALC November 2025 Exhibit 26 Official source ↗
Exhibit F.13 - ALC Report of the State Insurance Programs Oversight Subcommittee November 2025 Exhibit 1 Official source ↗
Exhibit F.14 - ALC Personnel Report Exhibit 1 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.01 - OAG - 2025-10-23 - 811 Q3 Report for 2025 - APPROVED Exhibit 2 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.02 - COSL - Deed Report July-September 2025 Exhibit 80 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.03.a - DC - AEDC, DRS -RCGP FY 26 CY 1 Recs FINAL Exhibit 9 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.03.b - DC - AID - ALC 2025.11.14 Rule 128 Report - November Exhibit 3 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.04.a - DOC - PPTB - October 2025 Exhibit 56 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.04.b - DOC - ACC Monthly Report November 2025 Exhibit 7 needs OCR Official source ↗
Exhibit H.04.c - DOC - DOC Inmate Population Report - Nov 2025 Exhibit 2 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.05.a - DFA - EATR - October 2025 General Revenue Report Exhibit 5 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.05.b - DFA - ACD - 2026 Agriculture Report Exhibit 63 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.06.a - DOH - ALC Report Act 52 of 2025 November Report for October numbers Exhibit 1 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.07.a - DHS - OOS - Maternal Health, Post-Partum Outcomes Q3 Jul - Sep 2025 v1 Exhibit 4 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.07.b - DHS - OSAMH - PASSE Quarterly Act 775 REport 11.10.25 Exhibit 5 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.08.a - DLL - AMVC - 2025 Automotive Technologist Education Grant Program - ApplicantandRecipient List Exhibit 1 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.09.a - DPHT - CZDC - Monthly Activity Report - October 2025 Exhibit 4 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.10.a - DPS - ASP Health Plan - Fund Balance Report - October 2025 Exhibit 2 needs OCR Official source ↗
Exhibit H.10.b - DPS - ADEM - 12-77-107 Arkansas Earthquake Preparedness 2025 Report 10-24-25 Exhibit 9 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.11 - DSAS - DBA Monthly ALC Report.FY26.Nov Exhibit 20 needs OCR Official source ↗
Exhibit H.12.a - APSC - 3Q25 Rate Case Report Exhibit 6 Official source ↗
Exhibit H.12.b - APSC - 3rd Quarter 2025 ARETFF Report Exhibit 6 Official source ↗
Handout -Ex. F.12 - Department of Health Discretionary Grant Substitute Purpose Statement C.1.2 Exhibit 1 Official source ↗

Speakers

Speaker 5
1 segment
Representative Les D. Eaves Chair Unverified
39 segments
Speaker 13
1 segment
Senator Jim Petty Unverified
3 segments
Speaker 23
1 segment
Senator Kim Hammer Unverified
11 segments
Speaker 31
1 segment
Speaker 36
2 segments
Speaker 42
8 segments
Senator Fredrick J. Love Unverified
3 segments
Senator Ben Gilmore Unverified
2 segments
Representative Lane Jean Unverified
1 segment
Representative Dwight Tosh Unverified
3 segments
Senator Jane English Unverified
1 segment
Senator Jonathan Dismang Unverified
5 segments
Speaker 70
6 segments
Speaker 72
1 segment
Speaker 78
2 segments
Chair Unverified
2 segments
Representative Ryan A. Rose Unverified
19 segments
Speaker 87
9 segments
Speaker 91
2 segments
Speaker 75
1 segment
Senator Bart Hester Unverified
2 segments
Representative Rick Beck Unverified
2 segments
Representative Les Warren Unverified
1 segment
Speaker 60
1 segment
Senator Terry Rice Unverified
8 segments
Speaker 125
1 segment
Speaker 130
13 segments
Speaker 131
1 segment
Speaker 109
1 segment
Senator Justin Boyd Unverified
2 segments
Speaker 135
2 segments
Speaker 3
1 segment