ALC-Higher Education Subcommittee

Knows me very well knows that I have spoken about kindergarten through career for all of our building talent pipelines for probably the last twenty years so one of the things with them and the reason why we're meeting over here in this room instead of over the big mac is because I was hoping that this will end up being more of a conversation rather than people just coming and testify so hopefully we can have a conversation but this afternoon we have we're gonna talk about the computer science you know we have the governors had a huge program for the last seven years on computer science education in K. through twelve it's expanded out into the two year colleges and four year colleges and into the private sector but there are thousands and thousands of jobs out in the in the work world for in all kinds of industries whether it's healthcare or construction or manufacturing or doesn't matter what it is there are all kinds of jobs out there for our students so the question is is how are we preparing those students to be able to take those jobs and how are we helping adults who have maybe didn't take all these courses when they were in high school or college or whatever and are now looking to change careers and want to be able to join that that workforce get those certifications and be able to do something so this morning this afternoon we have doctor Maria Markham and I'll let you introduce your folks who are here with you. If you would do that certainly thank you good afternoon madam chair members of the committee of is that Senator Englishman's and I'm Maria Markham director of the division of higher education and I am joined today by my colleagues Lonnie emerged and he is with the center for data science is Tina more with the department of education and Kylo waters with Arkansas community colleges and they're gonna talk a little bit more about what they do at those organizations but I ask these three panelists to join me today because I cannot properly addressed all the things that we're doing post high school for computer science without the expertise of my colleagues on the panel so I roles they overlap in their intertwined depending on the initiatives I think that that something that you will hear as everyone presents to you today the efforts to support computer science there admittedly in their infancy a lot of the things that we are doing our brand new and as a result of the governor's a coding initiative and some of the focus is that we've had when he gave us the charge in two thousand and I guess fifteen sixteens FOR every high school student to have a coding class before they left high school the fire for those careers began to burn and our young people and those young people are now reaching college age and we have to have a place for them to go others are Kansans many others have decided to continue development leaving the four of us to create and support infrastructure for the students to have apprenticeship opportunities noncredit professional development opportunities credit non credit from certificates three doctoral degrees we have to have a way to support that pipeline for computer sciences in two thousand seventeen I was on the commission but we remain commission for economic competitiveness of data analytics and computing and we came out with several recommendations to of those but the responsibility of creating the pipeline to support the students squarely on the shoulders of our institutions of higher education. and I've got some information to show you on how they have address those challenges in a moment Senator English you had requested that today flow a lot more like a conversation and less like a presentation so we will not be treating you to a power point today sounds fun. Everybody's happy yes instead we're going to provide you with some materials not all of which will reference but you can I reviewed your leisure others we want to point out some headline information for you and then you can ask questions but before I turn the call it my and the Mike over to my colleagues let me explain what you have in front of you from the division of higher education so I've provided a white folder for everyone. In that folder I have data elements separated on the left and the right on the left there's information about our academic programming on the rights we have our financial information. So I want to point out one thing about the academic programming information because it will no doubt no doubt spursofficial in a moment but we had an academic year two thousand sixteen and two thousand seventeen anomaly in our data we had a program at southern Arkansas university that was recruiting and targeting international students and they produced an incredible number of master's degrees in computer science and those two years of that effort indeed so then it fell off the cliff for master's degrees but I would point out that those master's degrees were not going to our Kansans they were going to international students so it truly didn't impact what we're producing as far as the blockchain of computer science expertise. With the academic data you're also going to find and it by institution ma and by level the number of credentials we have provided to our Kansans over the last five years in computer science related programming and then you'll also see it by by institutions so there's a couple of ways to break down the credential words I think that the headline there is that we have increased steadily over the last five years the number at every level say that master's degree in Onley in two thousand sixteen and seventeen a computer science credentials and also I just have to say keep in mind I'm only providing you with our for credit options Kylo Lonnie they're gonna talk about things that students have an opportunity to obtain outside of credentials that are awarded by our institutions of higher ed on the credit side of the house. the other thing that I wanted to point out. Is that the number of programs that we are offering not only the credentials but the number has grown substantially said there's an inventory there of every program offered at every public institution in the computer science related field it's quite an inventory and we have several more that are under development and being reviewed by my agency now most of these are new programs for students that are coming to us with a an interest in data analytics coding computer science that that big computing word that I think I made up I don't even know if it's a word but it's all of those occupations and career paths around computer science so we're modernizing without a lot of re configurations where we had a computer science degree but we had some outdated technology there because of our business and our industry partners we've taken out courses we've added courses and so we're constantly updating that inventory. Now on the right side of your folder I know some of you are very interested in the financial information are provided that we have the scholarships that have been awarded to students in computer science and related fields over the last five academic years so that is only those computer science bills and that is for all scholarships sources at the state levels that's lottery governor's distinguished are short term programs as well and you'll notice that we have spent over the last five years that that annual award has increased by about one point four million dollars and that's the product to two things it's more students wanting to be enrolled in those majors and this the development of our to workforce scholarships the Arkansas future grant and the workforce challenge grant that specifies students in stem related fuels received a scholarship so we have some new scholarships and we have an increased uptake on our existing scholarships for students who have chosen computer science. I have to mention this because I think that I would be remiss if I didn't. But in our productivity funding model that we have had for not now for years computer science is listed as a stem program stem programs received three times on a multiplier the amount of productivity points which of course equals additional funding for institutions so the students getting additional computer science credentials eventually end up with the institutions received more funding to support those those types of programs. The last document that I'm providing and I absolutely will not walk you through it is the big blue covered higher education master plan so that was just adopted in July of our board. it is the twenty twenty six strategic plan for higher education a law in Arkansas if you need a nap I invite you to read that at the time of its a lot of data lot of charts but I do want you to notice that there has been an emphasis and effort put toward Directing our funds and our activities to support those in those programs that show a growing demand by our industry partners so we did a pretty thorough job of projecting the demand gap for these these occupations over the next five years and we will be supporting students at a higher rate and institutions at a higher rate along the way. The final one that I wanted to point out is is back in your packet on the financial side and that is a breakdown of the regional workforce grant dollars that we have spent supporting computer science so unless Senator English for wants me to do so I'm not going to give you a history of regional workforce grants I think everybody in here is is pretty versed in what those are intended to do but we have spent almost seventeen million dollars since two thousand sixteen supporting computer science modernization improvements and initiation at our two year colleges and seven or four year institutions that offer their short term degrees so that's about seventy million dollars at all general revenue that we have spent to assist our institutions in providing these opportunities for students so I'm gonna pause there you have a lot of information I'm going to pause for questions if you have any for me and then I'm gonna turn it over to a Tina. The senator garner you have a question yes ma'am it was more of a seventeen in the next auction may be discussing this thirty five our state minimum as for my questions related to okay. The yeah well all that routine and she's got something to talk about with the minimum core. Senator Elliott. Thank you thank you madam chair Markham if we were to go into a reason to find out from their perspective if this is working for them at optimum or at what level who would be the person to talk to a person to talk to to find out exactly how this is being actualized on the ground I would say that that the people that we need to talk to our industry partners mmhm four how effective we are being at per providing credentialed individuals that meet their their occupational demand and not. What are the I guess the way to figure this out by looking at this but I mean I figure you might know the answer so I've are there regions who are benefited and are losing out because they're not partnerships in any way that inform us about some other measures we need to take or not that. I have a partial answer for you the way that we developed our strategic plan we we break everything down on a regional basis and we use the same workforce districts that we use for everything else that the we I would districts and we looked at the trends that the industry have in that region and then we looked at the institutions that were producing graduates in that region and we develop that delta between the supply and the demand so where we have a big gap we need to be putting more resources in that area because computer science may not be in demand in every region nursing may not be in demand in every region so we wanted to give each region a closer look to make sure that we are aligning with higher education what is needed by industry so where the gaps are bigger we're probably not doing as good of a job as a dressing industry demand where we have smaller gaps we're pretty aligned and but we can always do better and that's going to form a lot of the program development a lot of the regional workforce grants things that we encourage our institutions to develop to close those gaps okay right I thank you madam chair if you put me back in the queue all come back and ask my own questions okay so let me ask this question then when when we're doing these as regions are we clear including K. through twelve is part of that looking at that map are they a part of that discussion or is it just the higher education in the industry partners with well the way we look at it Senator English if the position required a credential so those are all higher ed credentials at this point not wanting he's gonna talk a lot about the apprenticeship and the pre apprenticeship in the things that are offered to the high school students but we can't capture a lot of that just statistically we can't capture it because it's not part of but the data that we have. But someday down the road may be when we get our longitudinal data yes we will be able to do that yes. And we reference that throughout our strategic plan that there are limitations because of the lack of a good longitudinal data system we're going to get there yeah we're going to get there yes representative ray. Thank you madam chair doctor Markham I was just scanning through the align Arkansas twenty twenty six program is is there a a portion of this that specifically dedicated to trying to increase credentials Amman I'm not sure what the proper term is adult learners or nontraditional yes so our third strategic goals about equity okay and we have expanded our definition of equity to include a whole lot of under represented underserved population so someplace thirteen have strategic plan we're looking at underserved minorities low income students adults rule students first generation college students prison re entry population and former foster youth so we have added a lot of subcategories to our equity discussion of that we are going to be placing additional emphasis and placing more resources to try to improve their retention and completion is patient college yes thank you yes. Representative makes. Thank you manager so I've got to to some are related questions and I think you partially already hit on this what is the you know supply versus the demand for these types of courses you know traditionally with nursing there's a waiting list of students are trying to get in what we saying in the computer sciences at this far as interest from students to take these courses versus availability and then at related to that typically these tend to be male dominated careers what are you saying as far as trying to recruit young ladies to take advantage of these opportunities well so I can only partially answer the first one okay maybe at Teaneck and answer the rest of it the biggest barrier we have on computer sciences qualified teachers and faculty because there is demand in certain parts of the state for students to enter these programs but there is a lack of master's prepared computer science instructors to be able to teach at the two year college level at our universities office much problem and they're usually in more urban settings they have an easier time and can pay more to attract us back to members that we have a couple of initiatives under way to help to address that problem but at this point that's our main barrier as far as the of the females in the occupation that something that we do a lot of work with on our parking spending so we use parking fines to recruit women into computer science amended a nursing does those traditional gender dominated feels to try to expand opportunities for for both sides of that sure really because we like to complain about women but we're at about seventy five percent of our college enrollment right now so when or kind of. Killin it on and College enrollment but still we could use some more women in a in the stem occupations more than just computer science but we are doing some targeted marketing we do a lot of education with high school counselors and there's a lot of cross pollination between higher education will on making those feels not so much more attractive but just letting people know that their options and where those options exist and how they they're accessible thank you. There was a second question. That I answered that I give a okay. Okay. The representative Dotson. Thank you madam chair This this little pamphlet here they cities S. just regarding the apprenticeships I really like this little stat here says Arkansas is number two in the nation what can we do to make that and number one thank you to talk about that so that money's gonna talk about that in just a moment but will definitely talk I'm chomping at the bit thank. Senator Elliot. Thank you madam chair I Mark I'm I'm not sure I'm asking this question correctly so you can fix it for me when I get it out there What I'm trying to do what I'm trying to figure out I know the legislation is about incentivizing and connecting qualifications with industry and so forth. What I'm not clear about it is there a. Anything about any of this that we're doing that's about developing a new. Especially in areas where there's nothing to connect you know there's not industry you know to connect so I'm I'm I'm I'm missing a part here can you kind well coming through that body is about to jump out of his chair what I will say that our regional workforce grants that's about development I think we need law the law. Okay the next but I will say on the regional workforce grants that seventeen million dollars some of that is developing new programs where there exists no program so even if the region doesn't have a high demand the state wide demand is very high so institutions like I can say okay computer science if you apply for that and it looks like a good application your will get it because one of our top demand gap occupations in the state so that makes it really easy for me to review their application. And move move forward with it and that's what the strategic plan was really about let's make it easier let's make it easy to to make the argument for some of these things and not just through all the hoops well I hear you for that thank you Sir thank you I'm I would just break the line okay senator garner you a question. No member bills regarding Garner I'm sorry. Thank you very much Medicare I have a real concern and I'm I assume this is your department about a graduate medical education we have is is that are is that something you guys are looking at or there is another department that does that we that's higher ed right it is it is so we do a little bit with graduate medical education we don't control residency slots and we don't control most of the funding for students a lot of that either goes through you a mess or there were also we just developed the the board the rules haven't even come through yet for the. The additional slots up to be funded what what we're working toward that but we don't we don't administer most of that and hire it so do you have information about The number of medical students who are not matching in residency slots in Arkansas who I don't have that information it said I don't know I can get it for you it won't be from us but I'm sure that Melissa's nodding her head UAMS probably has that data all of the DO school for everybody. I don't know if we would have that for everyone yeah check yeah that that's my real concern is that we have that many medical schools in these positions cannot practice without a residency correct and so we have to resit Seattleites so you know somebody needs to be worked that well and I think there's a lot of effort under way right now but I'm it's not all higher ed so I'm only gonna be able to give you a very small yes of the picture but right I think Melissa and I can collaborate and get you some information perfect okay perfect thank you very much. Okay so let me see a tentative you have some or you'd like to give us a call off sure in Thailand. So thank you so much for let me speak with you all today and in your packet you'll see a Manila folder that just has four sheets of paper and I'm not gonna go deep in those that did bring seventy five slides to show you if we can not getting enough did not have it but I just want to share a few things I'm in a newly appointed position at the Arkansas department of education entitled the Director of stem and computer science continue on and it is not a K. twelve position it is not a higher end position it's an eighty position that connects K. twelve higher ed and anything postsecondary including work force so the goal of this position is to take the governor's computer science initiative and other stem related programs in K. twelve and to connect that with opportunities postsecondary I am only into this position a couple of months so you know hopefully I can come back in two years time and tell you a lot more information than I can right now I put the job description in there just so you would see the intent of this position after I started I began reaching out around the state to higher ed connections folks like Lonnie that worked with apprenticeships and such and as I started putting the pieces together I said we have to all get the same room like this is we typically work in silos as you know education between K. twelve and higher and there's even some solace with transformation that's getting a lot better workforce and education often work in silos so breaking down those barriers and making sure that we collaborate that's a key role in my position so I ask my directly to ship could we have just a small little meeting to get some folks are ready to start talking and they said yes and now this Wednesday we have about seventy all meeting of the innovation hub and it we have folks from higher ed industry K. twelve the non profits all coming together to spotlight the work that they're doing and make connections among their work to see what next steps can be it is wonderful that students are be. Exposed to computer science and high school but if that's not translating into workforce readiness or enrolling in post secondary programs it's Nolan void so that is our focus and we are just beginning that collaboration a lot so that is why Maria brought us together because I mean all of you all are going to be at the summit we have this Wednesday because it it takes all of those partners working together we have to look at our even our college growing rate and see that so many students leave high school and they're not necessarily in rolling that fall into a two year or four year institution it's what around just fifty five percent college going rate and then of those students that do enroll in college we have an attrition of about a third so what are we doing to make sure those students have viable jobs and not live in this fantasy that well everyone's going to go to college and finished a four year degree when there are especially in I. T. fields many opportunities through apprenticeships another top trainings the computer science courses are available at the high school level if the student indeed completed all three within that pathway they would be well on their way to roll right into an apprenticeship or work program with they can often have credentials when they leave high school the problem is the CT requirements do not require every school in this state to offer every single computer science program I mean that's just not even feasible and it's really challenging for burden for some of our small schools so that is the purpose of my position I've also put in on the second page of the description of the summit of what we'll be doing this Wednesday. And then the next page you'll see an asset mapping of data science in computing training degree programs landed on saying data science computing because especially when you start talking with higher ed folks about computer science not to be pedantic but we want to make sure using the right terms because computer science doesn't mean the same thing to everyone because we have computer engineering computer systems we have data science we have been in business analytics so I tried to use the inclusive term there that just captures all of that and we have a Clinton school of public service student doing a capstone project to capture not only the credential programs and the non credit programs that Colin and very it can tell us about but also capturing all those apprenticeship programs like Lonnie and others like him support across the state my background is also in math so I know that we have a major deficit in many students for what they need and mathematics to be prepared for these programs and the math is very different among these programs what's needed so the students also looking at what math is required each of those programs so we can see a map can sometimes be a barrier to stack credentials if you're looking you know some of the pressure programs that will lead straight to a great job does not require calculus but if you want to do a data science program or a cybersecurity bachelors degree you do have to have calculus so lining up all those dots and making sure it's clear so students in high school knows what know what is expected of them is a critical part of this. And then finally on the last page you have a question about this proposal so um this is at sure as a top secret don't show to anyone this is this is just enter to enter discussions so K. twelve at the department level we can say this is how things are going to be and so be it and it is and everyone complies we know the higher it that's not how things work we can't just wave a magic wand and say we're going to add this to the core and everyone needs to comply so this is just a proposal and some discussion that we've been having because as I started talking with some of the folks in higher ed the seem to be a real barrier it's also a very with concurrent credit because we really push taking math science social studies English concurrent credit because it's going to count towards any major that you have well when students are taking computer science as concurrent unless they count as an elective it's not going to count towards their degree and sometimes electives or so eaten up by a certain degree programs there's not even wiggle room there so I've been talking to with for Rhea and getting her expertise as far as the policies and procedures of things and I believe it's in February that I'm going to go chat with the CEOs to pitch this proposal but these are some of the things that we're looking at as we we know what programmatic barriers can we remove that would in encourage taking computer science courses so that's just a little bit there we realize that it's going to take lots of people it's this position that I'm in is really to coordinate all those people and get him on the same page Aaron Evans are over here and I were joking because we keep running into one another because there are so many projects that are like Friday we're going to do a women in stem planning a girls event to get girls into data science computing is actually separate security focus on that one Wednesday she's coming to the conference that we're doing she has an incredible partner. Ship with four The Forge Institute UALR new A. P. B. you may have even seen that on channel eleven this weekend there are some things about you a P. B. so it takes lots of players we're gonna have to connect two years and four years much more so in their articulation agreements and transfer agreements lots of work to be done so what questions do you all have so center Chesterfield has questions then senator garner. my question is what are you talking about is happening Wednesday sure it's either the second page in the handout and it's we've called it the Arkansas data science and computing summit. Urging the gaps from Kate bridging the pathways I'm sorry from K. twelve to post secondary education and workforce readiness and we brought together people from K. twelve so we have a lot entity and and some of his master and math. Welcome back there did you want us to be a part of this and if so what we find out about it on Monday no ma'am I'm sorry I didn't mean to be unclear but that no it is something that is already established in a meeting I'm just let you all know about it so you could see the efforts that are in place to bring together key stakeholders from K. twelve higher and workforce so actually to be honest with you I think there are opportunities I think they're legislators who would really like to be involved with things like that but never been never been invited but I think those are critically despite not everybody in here who cares but a lot of people do and what might light that the opportunity to sit in here what the discussions are as we're making policies then it's kinda nice to know what those discussions are are had their happening so that's just I don't know if there's an opportunity for anybody in here to attend that thing on Wednesday or not we we to locally have little room for two more so if if you can think of to that would be great representatives for the group that maybe and should that be wonderful but please don't think this is a one time thing this is the first of many conversations because we realized a lot of these people are not talking and they don't know what's going on with the conversation we've all wanted to have for a very long time is hi we bring everybody together rather than in silos and and the legislature is really an important part of that discussion because we do do the laws and we do do the rules and things like that so it's really important critically important for us to be as well informed as everybody else to hear what's going on. Now that can I have a ten. Going. I guess I'm in my feelings right now because we continue to have these meetings and we don't know about and she's expressed a very well there's a meeting going on now about the health advisory committee that we found out about to date so. She is the chair is already set this within the next expressed another concern that I have and that's the lack of diversity I I'm seeing at the department of education. The deals with this issue. I'm very pleased that we have a lot of gender representation but I see no ethnic minorities at all. And that's particularly troubling because this program has got to reach everybody. Everybody. And I see nobody who looks like me involved in this conversation from the administrative perspective and that's troubling to me so I just want to say that and that you know that I'm hopeful and I'll be saying the same thing to direct to keep that as we go about this business of hiring individuals we need to have some diversity in the staffing thank you very much mention Senator Garner. Thank you so this proposed thirty five our state minimum if I'm reading this correctly and it's my understanding is that each college you go to to get a bachelor's degree you have to have a thirty five our core minimum which looks like it's social science math fine or things like that what you're proposing in this understanding correctly is substituting that and now that every college student that gets one of those degree in anything would have to take a computer science class no service that was going on no it noted this is zero three. So that means that three could count towards that but that it's not required because there are other parts of if you see the entire thirty five hours also like and speech communications is as zero three meaning that I can count but it's not required as part of the core it's flexibility for the specific degree plans whether that's required and that's the same thing this is not a three hour requirements is zero to three just so would be an option but I'm sure it can speak to that more. Well just to clarify and your your initial question thirty five hours is for any associate of arts or bachelor degree so there's the F. thirty five our core that exist now. And Tina is proposing that this course could be a substitution basically instead of one of the social sciences you could choose to take computer science the reason why this is just a proposal is because there's a whole lot of things that have to happen up and down the food chain with higher and to make this happen so we would have to ensure that if a student was in high school and they chose to take a concurrent computer science class the by the time they want to pay a bill about a sociology degree bait bill would agree that that course could apply for the sociology degree so no point with that student have the possibility of losing credit or having credit that would not account account and apply toward their hundred twenty hours baccalaureate degree so that's why we have to kind of kick this off to take the temperature of the institutions of higher ed see if there's a room in their degree plans to make this either or decision but at this point that's a suggestion okay so will be optional you will not have to take a computer science like you do in high school yeah that's the proposal that is being made okay. Thank you. Okay let me see a representative Godfrey. Thank you madam chair my question is actually was actually similar about the zero hour requirement and seven. I can follow up offline that basically with the just my question to you thank you the representative Dotson. Just to just to clarify on that same same line I think this is the US history government would still be a requirement. And and still a concurrent option under this proposal as it is now none of the existing courses would be taken out of the core but there would be an opportunity like I think there's nine hours of social sciences thank you take six hours of social science and in one computer science class. Roll yes and the problem the problem there is on transfer so we have to make sure that every major in every degree would honor that computer science classes meeting the core but it wouldn't be a substitute for the US history or government now that still is required US history government as required thank you set them on that same no if you look on this page or look at the patience this proposal to include a data science computing option near the bottom it says current social sciences requirements and currently social sciences is nine to twelve with US history or government being three of those and other social social sciences being six to nine you'll note below the proposed would be social sciences six to twelve still the three hours of US history or government it's just the other social sciences has the three to nine hour option and then data science or computing is added just as a an optional substitution. Senator garner he that question yes ma'am follow up so I've my extensive research are going this route before when I read this Ears that you already have options within a course for certain engineering degrees and other things were like advanced mathematics can take the place of that would you set that up similarly if this idea happened or in this to follow up on that you describe the bunch of hoops you have to jump through this out of all the legislators asking to go to department of ed House how would that transfer happened so the answers center garnish your first question is no it wouldn't be like engineering because what we do there and Senate college algebra you actually have a higher level math so most of the time the kids that know they're gonna be engineers still take college algebra high school and then they'll take cal one so we're in for engineers cal one counts as their core basically what that means we would not want to do that for computer science because there's not a if there's a levelized system for computer science and the other questions that you had was on the foods that would be to be jumped three yes this item all the legislators like once the process some point yes that would involve the legislation because I believe the core is stated at some point and legislation there's scholarships for the chorus stated so we would have to go back and do some some research on which sections of code would need to be altered to allow for this the bigger hoop to jump through is higher learning commission because they require that the faculty controlled the curriculum in the degree plans so I can't say institutions or changing the core start taking computer science stop teaching this other thing so we have to have a more but but we could. Well you could but then all of the institutions in the state would be subject to higher learning commission sanction and loss of Pell grant I would recommend that as the as the course of absolutely you're correct you could do that. Okay. This kind of Senator Elliot. Go ahead now up well I'm moving on to the. We've got to build on the lawn is only. K. Lani I do have a question on this line one. I know I'm trying to figure out an overall thing about ability the soft skills and all of this because so many times you know we've already in the K. twelve curriculum I decided that speeding can communication consent would be just embedded and generally we know what that means is submitted to the point you can't find it so as we are. Creating students with these great stem skills I'm not saying you have to do it but is anybody paying attention to what we generally do with the feels like this. I'm not teaching people are making sure they are skilled with the soft. The ability to communicate well yes I understand I've heard for years if you're an engineer an architect you don't even take a speech class and dear lord who needs to communicate more than somebody who's going to be handling that much money this is discussion about that and if there's not will you somebody bring it to the forces we are breaking down the silos because I bring something to you that's a K. twelve problem as well but that's where it should start it doesn't any thoughts about that what can you would fix me some kind of way. And I will say no I agree with you wholeheartedly into big pieces that are not captured in in this information right here is one preparing students for the twenty first century one of the few with and we preaching K. twelve the foresees and we have to have communication collaboration creativity and a missing one. Critical thinking about thinking that we need for I know right. Our cities and these other programs we also have to promote equity we can take a map of our state and we can look at and we will see similar we could overly overly overly health disparities poverty access to education access to these apprenticeships I've talked aligning about okay what we're gonna do to make sure we have these in the delta so they're all these different pieces that they are not addressed right now like they need to be and they are focus you'll see that when we literally I have a slide because I do have slots for Wednesday there is a slide about the four seasons importance of the foresees in this work and then there's a whole section of about ten slides about diversity and stem and diversity in stem it includes multiple things that includes gender and includes other demographic race ethnicity and those that we look at the poverty level income so we have a lot of work to do in Arkansas and the stem field in general you can look at the stats are just absolutely staggering for the diversity and in stem and I. T. even more so than others Bills so there are lots of pieces to that that we realize need worked on and that is part of these conversations well I'm I'm really I'm really happy we don't see the seventy five slides today but at some point those last few slides that you mention I think it would be really great for us to see those and have a discussion a presentation about them because these are the things we all want to make sure or are happening but then you know we kind of Satan and as legislators I'm not talking about you in we really don't exploratory deeply or supported the way I think we probably should so thank you for that I want to follow up Senator Elliot from from a higher education perspective and you're not gonna live answer. I have no more than more than ever we're we're aware of how much of a coordinating agency we are and we don't really govern what what is taught within the classroom in the learning outcomes so but I can take a step back about six years ago when I was the chief academic officer of an institution and my responsibility to demonstrate those learning outcomes what's the higher learning commission and again it wasn't very effective because I only got a ten year review so every ten years I had to demonstrate that all of my graduates knew how to effectively communicate and I can do that twice on Tuesday I mean that's easy for anybody that works an institution so there's all of these things that you have to demonstrate for graduates whether they're an engineer or their teacher or whatever feel that they're in but the bar is pretty low and the the oversight of it like I'm not asking for more oversight from higher learning commission because they have they do have some control that but we don't love but asking them to be more scrutinizing on our learning outcomes for all of our students is probably not an area that I want them to plant down on but I you know I can always do some research for you on how institutions are demonstrating those things and they can look back to their higher learning commission reviews and say this is this is where that thing is hidden there's not a course for it anymore because we've gotten rid of the course this is how it's addressed but that would be something for a grad student so yeah Would be great because that is what is dissertation topic yes. If you're doing it that's the only thing but I I just happen to know from I guess observation talking to people that many times it's said but not done and I really am not looking for any more oversight because I do believe that we give people the opportunity and the expectation. And just empower people to get things done but they should I think they do a better job than consul having somebody looking over their shoulders and that's really what I'd rather see more of that education taken more responsibility for making sure we're educating the way we should we don't need somebody standing you know and since you can may say that she made to this not that's not what I'm looking for so your your answer really does not disappoint me all that much because it starts the way we can talk thank you very much I appreciate you. Hey I think we need to move on to Kylo waters. And then Lonnie thank you madam chair and I'll be brief so that we can get to more foreign money here. Dr Martin has asked me to talk about thank you okay how did you move. Yep because originally it better yeah thank you so Dr Markham is asked me to talk about the non credit opportunities for students and adult learners so what we mean when we talk about non credit or those courses or programs that don't lead directly to college credit they do prepare students of four industry credentials for a professional certificate that they can use in the current job for job advancement or for an entirely new career. So non credit programs tend to be shorter in length in their credit counterpoint counterparts of the could be a few hours to a few weeks in our example of something like that would be the Microsoft Office credentials that most of us offer there you know small bites of information that build on each other and you earn credentials along the way there are a little bit longer courses that may be of you can't style delivery where it's of several weeks of very intense delivery of contents because there's a lot to cover but it happens very quickly. And then some or a little bit longer six months of two year based on the amount of contents an example might be of the Amazon web services they do a cloud architecture and the data analytics course that is about a year long but still is on the non credit side of the house. A delivery of non credit could be in person like the traditional for city or it could be in an online format and even further an online course meet the self paced allowing students the flexibility to you know devote time when they have it to the curriculum of this type of course is still beneficial to employed individuals parents and students who are enrolled in other courses and then of course there are others that are delivered in the traditional classroom model with you to schedule the dates and assessments. There are a lot of topics in the what we're calling and data analytics and computing worlds but I just wanted to mention if you just to give you an idea of of the wide range so software mobile app development computer programming along with programming languages of PC troubleshooting end user supports computer aided design web development cyber security with the laws of those courses just in the recent past system networking and you'll have to explain this in the mail on the big data engineering and data analytics. And many more I'm I didn't even scratch the surface on what's available. Examples of industry certifications that a student can earn a mention of Microsoft certifications there's Amazon web services service certifications CompTIA Cisco there's there's a lot of others as well. Some of the non credit programs are eligible for the workforce challenge scholarship that aftermarket mentioned earlier which is of course funded by lottery proceeds one other category did want to mention is some customized training that we do for industry of those tend to be you know very specific business process of a software or could be A. I. R. virtual reality those types of programs could be funded by a workforce training grant from the office of skills development. That's my quick overview we'll take questions not I will turn it over. Anybody have some questions here. Okay thank you Kyle. Laimbeer up. Thank you. Clear Michael John up to you thank you and I appreciate that you have the same enthusiasm and passion as I do about this topic our team up here we've been talking about this for a long time but in representing the Arkansas center for data science is what I'd like to do is kind of talk about some salient points about why this organization a nonprofit organization was actually formed as part of as Dr Markham mentioned the governor's Blue Ribbon commission back in late two thousand seventeen to two thousand eighteen so what we're addressing here is something that we all know to be factual and true and that is that there is a tremendous gap between industry demand for all of these jobs that we're talking about that we're terming IT now what that means is that includes data analytics that includes computing that includes a cyber that includes a lot of things but I'm talking about it as a thirty eight year veteran as an information technology professional my most recent executive job was the deputy CIO at Blue Cross blue shield of South Carolina moved here two years ago and at that point our Board of the Arkansas center for data science has had clearly look at the data of the gap and realized that what we're doing is great in traditional education in terms of equipping we made a lot of great moves you've heard this that computing initiative the coding initiative and a lot of other things that have gone on but it's not going to be enough and so what I've spent the last I say aye our organization has spent the last couple years doing is we've talked over four hundred employers someone Dr Markham and others have mentioned about knowing the demand on the part of employers we've talked a small medium large everywhere from two person shops to Walmart and everywhere in between and the idea is is that we're getting a pretty good feel for what it is that one industry says this is what I need in terms of a credential this is what I need in terms of skill building how can you help us by a quipping people to be a ready work force so that's part of the reason that the art. And saw center for data science is was actually formed we have we have done out of our way to be able to take the funding that we receive from the office of skills development which is a direct report to the secretary of commerce and we formed an end to end organization that accomplishes things that nobody else to answer your question the country is doing it the way we're doing it here and what I mean by that is it takes every aspect of supply which starts with this question that you all have about where is this talent coming from how are we reaching our Kansans we know that we've got to continue to exploit and and get the most out of the traditional model because guess what we don't want somebody leaving to go to work in Austin Silicon Valley we want working here in Arkansas right so we're doing our best to make sure we market what the real opportunities are at the same time what about the demographic of career changers non college goers why are we not reaching more females and minorities and that's exactly the approach we're taking with the apprenticeship model and the reason I say that is not to exclude the fact that apprentices don't commend organizations having a four year degree this is not a complete kind of thing this is trying to look at the way the industry has to look at the population and say how am I ever going to solve my dilemma and they want to know that there are alternatives and they want to know that diversity and equity and inclusion as part of this so imagine this here's a finite group of people that are going to graduate with computer science degrees or even expanded into a data analytics or data science degree that still eight hundred thousand maybe we've got seven thousand open jobs right now not all those are entry level jobs so don't think that I don't understand my total population here but a greater portion of those is how does somebody new come into this profession that isn't in it today that's our whole point about trying to increase the capacity and capability as a state right so when we do that we have now open the aperture to include all of these folks in rural. Arkansas to include veterans coming back from the military non college goers they can't afford to go to school right and they're located all around the state and they need to know what is my option we're not trying to twist their arm right there's an assessment that we do as part of talent acquisition or talent management and we have for recruiters on on the team of a CDS they're not there to replace corporate recruiters if a company has a recruiting team we're there to supplement them but think of all the small and medium size companies that are doing IT related work and they don't have HR they don't have recruiting they don't know how to reach these candidates so that's the role we're playing is making sure that through the local workforce boards through various mechanisms of finding out hopefully the longitudinal data study and other things like ready for life is going to inform our employers through us that here's where these are Kansans live today this is how we connect them I don't know if many of you realize but back in the midst of the pandemic the Arkansas center for data science is offered the governor a potential solution when he said how do we offer hope and opportunity to our Kansans who are applying for unemployment insurance of the pandemic unemployment assistance what we did is we reached out and offered through an email that may not have been the best but fifty nine thousand emails went out and guess what we offered the opportunity to take a free I. T. assessment in the privacy of your own home find out if you are interested if you have some aptitude you may have taken a coding class in high school maybe not you may be coming from who knows where but this seems to be appealing we took Now there's other providers that we've connected to besides them so I want you to know it's kind of a best of breed based on which occupation are we talking about data science are we talking about programming we talking about IT kind of fundamentals that Tyler mention which is really something that every company is striving for is to find somebody that can just come right in in tech support and begin to learn as they earn right which is the perfect model for an apprenticeship and so we found that if you look at our flyer there that's a little bit dated we can't to keep it promote or keep it as dynamic as we'd like to but it's giving you a glimpse of what is this offering of talent acquisition we offer project management for employer so that they know how to implement registered apprenticeship there are those of you in the audience that are probably familiar with registered apprenticeship and trades and construction in a lot of other areas and not necessarily in IT but what we've introduced as is the perfect model if you think about skill building and being able to begin a career path and that's what we've done your question in in the pandemic year of twenty twenty we were second only to South Carolina in terms of the number of IT apprenticeships we do believe in we told the governor this the other day that until we can check rapids which is the department of labor the database that tracks all of the registered apprenticeships in the country there is a finite number of those occupations that are considered IT occupations they're going to do another check against that we think we might be number one this year because we have got a combination of reaching that small business that really doesn't know how to find candidates knowing that some of these candidates are in rural Arkansas and guess what we put in place through one of our grants that we received through eighty which was called closing the skills gap that's a national department of labor grant program we introduced what was called a fully remote apprenticeship program so that's the concept that somebody could actually be identified interviewed selected. Hired on boarded trained and actually begin work and they never set foot in the corporate headquarters we have about I think eight of those in play today right now as we speak now I'll whole lot more those are beginning to happen because folks that do some of this work that were calling you know this IT support if you will manage service provisioning there's a lot of companies that are located in Jonesborough on their support people in Texarkana or a banking Meena and guess what they can't do all that remotely they want to hire a remote person as an apprentice and have them be the on site support even though they're not in their home location now I'm I'm going a little bit into detail there but I want you to be aware that the role that a CDSs plan is is really only beneficial because of our connection to the training partners so that's probably the the third item that I want to emphasize is we're connecting with employers. We're connecting with the supply but more importantly what's the magic of an apprenticeship the magic of apprenticeship is the fact that they're building the skills that the employer says this is exactly what I need them to know now I would prefer that they had a certain income T. A. plus right and if they have it before they get to me that's great if they don't there is an alternative that in the learner model we'll take a capable person with potential and passion right it'll show up and guess what we can teach them through the apprenticeship two things one is the right classroom skills and we're going to provide the O. J. T. through a mentoring process which most companies and I. T. do that anyway that assimilation for a new person coming in we just started our first cohort at Walmart of software developers they identified a mentor for everyone of them right and that's maybe not a great example because guess what they've been hiring thousands of software developers all around the world but guess what they're starting to do now a non tech the tech program that's doing what it's taking our Kansans in northwest Arkansans And when we hire these folks. And they're starting to do it and that could blossom into who knows what but then let's go to that intermediate level company that's maybe fifty people they've been struggling to find they have somebody leave and guess what happens. Opposition stays open for a long time unless they rob Peter to pay Paul and they steal somebody from another company down the street which that does what escalate salaries because they got to pay more to get a right and then they got that open position for the company that just lost somebody so what we're approaching with with apprenticeship is the idea of secession Management I'm sure you've heard that term you all live it breathe it but instead of one company thinking about their secession plan what does that look like for the state of Arkansas how do we kind of think about that in terms of companies who can rely on the fact that there is a pool of talent that's going to be equipped and coming forward that when they advance somebody in their organization that might be the best candidate as an apprentice to move from one entry level position to the next part of their career path out of the backfield they don't have to go out and recreate that because they're already working through the channels whether that be through a community college a source whether that be through higher ed or that be through local workforce boards or some of our posting so. I want to stop there and say that the message today is that the employers have to drive apprenticeship it is different it's not an internship now we do internships as well and I say we. Higher it does internships and they do it very well so when I use this term I'm really talking about work based learning so I think For the group that asked the questions I can think of a number in fact I just want to a company called rock dental brands I don't know if you know who that is but they started to work based learning candidate a young African American man who started his to work based learning assignment today and he had no background no degree but he had an aptitude and he had an interest and he'd been taken some classes but guess what just like a college student has between their junior and senior year even earlier what do they need on that resume meaningful work experience so here's a group of employers now that it said we're willing to take on a candidate who is proven they have some potential will continue to train them and upskill them right and then and then what we're doing is we're funding a few months of that wage so that they get that transition into that organization and right now we've completed eighteen of those through this year with funding from the office of skills development Cody weights and I think it's eight of those eighteen immediately got offered full time positions with the company that they did that work based learning opportunity with now can we scale that we think so right that's going to be upon all of us to figure out what's the blending of federal federal state and even some private donations that we have because we had a nonprofit organization that was a real blessing that when the Blue Ribbon commission said let form this is a nonprofit it affords us some significant things that a government agency sometimes can't quite do right and so that's been a real benefit I think to all of us to be agile and nimble to be able to work that that funding source The other thing besides supporting the curriculum for higher ed into here community college is is that what we've tried to say is can we help you streamline the feedback loop because you're constantly trying to stay in connection with the industry to say how important is that certification how important is that particular set of skills that we're teaching and and I think we've got that ability to do that I think it takes some effort I think it takes collaboration that we're working on right now as we speak and so I I kind of want to leave you with that that here's the message opportunity for all our Kansans right there's a traditional pathway that we got to continue to grow the volume it's the best method we're not trying to twist an employer's arm to say Hey this apprenticeship thing is a silver bullet it's just another business strategy right so that's the first message the other is the best of breed training and you may have questions about this is going to come from a number of sources our current population of what we receive in terms of higher ed at the same time we do have some vendor related training you mentioned some of the things you already know of that you work with in terms of national certification programs with those vendors we've established some of those relationships and because the department of labor is fully aware of what we're doing in Arkansas they made some things available to us that I'm not sure is available to everybody else so we've got access to potentially thousands of Google certification licenses now you can say what they offer that everybody for free there's more to what we're receiving than just the general thing that somebody could go you know ask for as a as a random request this includes all of the certification exam prep the exam and everything else that goes with that so just so you know those are part of the suite of what I call apprenticeship training that is very vital to the R. can since they don't find themselves able to go into higher education. Thank you. So representative thanks money. Representative makes. Thank you ma'am Sir I I think you he may have kind of hit on my question but I'm back in the nineties when I finished my degree in electronics it was off basically almost a job requirement for me to get my copy a plus certification network certifications to be able to keep and maintain a job right is that those certification still hold the same weight today that they did back then or do you see employers more interested and bring me somebody who's capable will do all the training and you know it if you get the certification fine but if not I'm works to somebody who's gonna have the soft skills is going to show up what what do you kind of saying those regards so so we've investigated this pretty deeply you mentioned doing research up a lot of companies who do I. T. related work are doing it for somebody else in some case right and sometimes those contracts require that they have to be a plus certified or they have to have that certification so for them it's an imperative right for all others it becomes one of those things where some organizations have a little bit more of a standard you know they're they're very rigorous in the way they go about hiring and promoting and progressing so for those we know that that's exactly what they're looking for there are others that have entered into this IT space that they're of survival is based on I gotta get going quickly right and they trust that we can give them the necessary customize training and I say us it could be through ASU Newport or could be through whoever right but the point being is that that's a demand driven thing that we let that drive I don't think there's a blanket statement either way but it's still a very important piece to the whole process I thank you thank you Mr yeah representative Dotson. Thank you madam chair I must say this is exciting and I appreciate your passion and the energy for I guess the it's when you find something that that seems to be working as well as this is working and and has the potential for us to be a leader in the nation We need to throw everything we've got at it to to make sure it's successful continues are there any obstacles that you've run into from the state's perspective that barriers that we can remove or assistance that we can give that would enhance your ability to to Get more people or more employers on on board offering these types of apprenticeships. First of all I I want to say that I did come from the state of South Carolina and ever since I got here and Kyla knows this prior to showing up here I'd done some consulting with Arkansas along with about nine or ten other states because the Department labor as you know has been distributing quite a bit of funding to support the growth and expansion of apprenticeship and I will tell you that one of the things having been part of an asset mapping exercise prior and and a statewide plan for expanding apprenticeships that to me the state of Arkansas is not only perfectly designed size wise and and structure wise but the transformation really now allows what I see as not a lot of barriers it's a lot of cohesiveness I do think there is some concerns that I've seen about how we could better and for some of you out here I think this may hit home we could better work with local workforce boards who I don't think quite understand the environment that we're in in terms of the employers for I. T. and and this data science and cyber I I think we have to work even more closely together because they're some of the populations that are obviously coming into work for centers on a regular basis that I think we're we're a little bit still disconnected from right now they can offer the same thing we offer to the unemployed population in the midst of the pandemic that I mentioned right reskill Arkansas is what it's called we would like to see that rolled into ready for life that that along with the reimagine or all the other names that surround these potential ways to to engage our Kansans I don't see that as a barrier but I see that is this group of four right here we're representing we got to be closer together because these things that the same people and the same companies with the same jobs but how we mix the batter in the middle is is the secret sauce so so what do you need from us in order to make you better together. So one of the things that you've already done is there and and Senator English knows this the state tax credit for partnership has been very meaningful not to the not to the medium and large big companies but the small and medium size companies have really seen that as kind of that final incentive to get involved so if that could grow you know I think it's right now capped at ten thousand per company and five apprentices per year that's one thing that's legislation so you know you could certainly address that capping that would raise that cap raise the cat yes it would raise the amount or raise the cap on the total number I mean I think that's probably for others to determine I think the the the ideas we that I think the amount per is pretty good so as to the housing Kerr is good I think the fact that it might go from five to ten or capped at ten thousand as long as the amount is affected we wouldn't need to change it but if if at any point that becomes ineffective please let us know raising the cap I think it's certainly something we should should look into and here's why I want you to think about this we've got data on not just the number of employers that have committed to a partnership and IT but the number that are coming back and the number that are saying oh I did that as an IT generalist I need to do that for software development I need to do that for data analytics so they're expanding what was their original thought that this is where my demand the man was to almost everything that they hire for perfect and if that's the case they're going to grow the number per company and that's where that five is going to become limiting and finally it on that specific to that state tax credit is there any sort of Arkansas residency requirement for qualified to qualify that there you they're hiring our Kansans that live here because a lot of these I. T. remote positions might be out of state where they're not. Necessarily a part of the Arkansas tax base yeah so there is a requirement of that and as far as I know that there have been three or four companies that are taking that fully remote apprenticeship model that we talked about and they have actually because the training is emanating out of the state of Arkansas and their headquarters is in the State of Arkansas they have actually trained apprentices that live somewhere else but the pay roll emanates from Arkansas okay now they don't have a tax base if they're actually risks receiving it somewhere else that's not a large number but but right now we feel like some of that could lead to the fact that you know we work in IT can be done anywhere we prove that during the pandemic right it was the insulated kind of wasn't affected as much because of that but at the same time we think there's some ability with marketing programs to say come on you know so you might be doing that work somewhere else but why not do it here thank you. Senator Elliot. Thank you madam chair the standard my question really is starts right for you your last sentence come home And I at my question in response to my question I think is going to be somehow in some way is constrained by the legislation itself but the question but I'm getting at is the come home part there are places where there is already industry and if if I'm say in I don't know where I grew up in the data council and there is no the technology industry my question was about is there any part of this about if you build it they will come up because if if we are not able to do that we continue to grow in the places that are already growing is what I'm asking about so so what can you what can you tell me about that because I don't want people to have to leave and go to for the growth is already happening ma'am we need desperately to go right there and say I don't know Grant County since I'm looking at represented Bragg. I want to tell us I have two examples that in the short time that we've been doing this that many of you may have heard about so there was something formed in Newport Arkansas called the tech depot and that was kind of that idea that you just mentioned right I wouldn't say it's only if you build it they will come but it was more about what I call a co work space a combination of apprenticeship small company entrepreneurship training through a issue Newport and others and it was being done in a common space where people who at that time may have been somewhere where they didn't have broadband I know we've got a great broadband initiative going on right now but it gave them access and availability and it gave employers a chance all over the state to know that those folks who were there they were interviewed in honor applicant tracking system with the Arkansas center for data sciences they've been able to make contact on jobs that are not located in Newport Arkansas but they are and the same is being looked at right now we're about ready to launch a company coming to Arkansas in pine bluff call people shores and the idea there is that they're going to do what you might've always remembered and I. T. as offshore right companies send their work somewhere else well then there became companies that did what was called near shore and onshore and this is what that model is only that sure is going to be pine bluff and and so they've got contracts that they're working on that will then enable you know right now our our plan is twenty five individuals in pine bluff they're gonna go through an apprenticeship program and begin supporting their service center it's going to be located really it's gonna be on the campus of C. R. to start with but eventually that will roll into their overall plan of growing to a hundred a hundred and fifty resource so is that the printer should connected with the company that is. What company are they connected with that a company in pine bluff or is our company that they are as a company coming to pine bluff they're all people shores okay that company has done this overseas than they did in San Jose then they brought the model to Clarksdale Mississippi mmhm and their whole point is bent that it's really about community social involvement and opportunity we found them they found us it was it was a good marriage I guess if you will and what regularly has been a good example is C. R. has come to the table to really support them but at the same time so as the economic development community in pine bluff we've offered in the apprenticeship model that they did not use in Clarksdale but they are using here because guess what it really benefits them to not only get individual started but to truly know what their career paths can win like so then these day right so intention is a big part of that and to me that model can be replicated many times over. What what do we have his or something like this as well the. But in in the places that are just totally rule that there is no because I like the example you committee for pine bluff that's good. Most places are not you know upon what the Little Rock or whatever. What what do we do our how we work in with areas. That are so role and really need to grow when people don't want to move this and is there some something for them I can I can imagine something for them because you can work from anywhere if you have the problem with that you need so I'm just wondering. It is what's the approach for some place like that is. I'm I'm gonna ask my colleagues to help me answer this question and here's the reason I say that is because we've proven that we can take an individual who's in our cans and that potentially could be in the supply of town right to work for a company. And we say how do we reach them then it's a matter of how do we identify and train them what a company be willing to hire them and then what's what's that look like and and part of that is that they're still going to need some face to face even with our work based learning we had a a company and Benton who hired a work based learning intern who was in or around Fort Smith I don't know my geography yet perfectly here in Arkansas but let me just say that they were rural and they weren't gonna be able to to transport right so they made that work they got the training they got the instructions you know it's one of those types of positions where once understood and and getting the training and then saying how do I apply that there's a lot of models for how we can do that and I. T. that doesn't necessarily relate to manufacturing sometimes are things where there's a physical you know location requirement but in I. T. that's not necessarily the case so the more we can find out where some of these are Kansans are and what is a nearby like do we have a community college within what how many. Miles or minutes or whatever every our cans and we do. That was the game plan will be set them up but you know but I'm pretty sure we do don't we we have but let me just say one last thing madam chair and I wanted to share this with you Miss to amber because of all one of the things we have thought about folks who were so isolated is through something called bill all right plus technology boot camps that we're doing and the idea there is to look at a place in poor people say there is nothing there and not level of love because I don't see any big build ins but to have people with the expertise to look at what the possibilities could be in most places with our post technology and that's what we are doing with that work. And figuring out these are the skills these are the demand cities of the possibilities for this area. And when we inform workforce we need to take a look at what we're finding is say you think there's nothing herein Mbabane here is the real possibilities through art plus technology that can happen and that's why we just we just wondering just trying to get some understanding of how we can work together you know on something like that because the possibilities were in pine bluff our last at all very last the bill camp and it was hugely successful and empowering and inspiration by people who were there for what more we can do about that with the offline on those kind of things I need to get out the money that I think we all of. Yeah yeah thank you so this is been a wonderful conversation I'm excited by all of it and I do appreciate all of you coming on and I appreciate all of you being here we have a next little group coming to visit with us. Okay sorry I'm sorry representative garner did you have a question I just have a real quick question as as the mother of a thirty five year old in a position that I think it's unsustainable could you just quickly go through the process for students to access this apprenticeship sure so the the reskill Arkansas model is really what I would call an IT talent development model that somebody can start from zero and zero to ready in a period of time and that's with our folks who are coaching them we work with others to do some of this kind of career counseling that says what's that really occupation look like what are some of the free classes you can take and pick a pass you know there's so many kind of diverse pass it they could follow that we try to find out where that interest might be but then taking the assessment and beginning to be contacted that can be as short as as they may be ready because they've done some other things with the main knowledge in a career field we had a couple folks that had been restaurant managers and then decide that can't do that anymore but their customer service skills were out the roof they've got taught some very quick technology skills around how to do some data analytics review and data and being able to not just do reporting but do some predictive analytics they had some math background in their history right and guess what great job data analysts sixty five thousand dollars a year and and going up right and that's online that they well that training they took was part of a data analyst apprenticeship program I mean just to get started just to get started with all virtual and all online says he needs to just look at or go to the ACT S. website right. Thank you will see. Senator Johnson. If I'm that little card. Great thank you madam chair Tucker murder mystery were welcomed Arkansas thank you and I'm I'm gonna throw this out to the whole panel but also kind of start with you I appreciate to represent garner's comment about her son because I similar situation my daughter although she's doing quite well right now but she went to Vanderbilt and came up with a degree in what was called elements of design and they can take our in computer science and did it interdisciplinary program for she did very well and she graduated **** laude then the world changed she's this should be thirty nine on Christmas day so the world's changing up she went to work for apple she quit which drove me crazy but she took a course in U. X. and I don't know how long it was about three four months I think but her life changed even again after that and that made me think that. When I was in college we had punch cards for the computer so you know it's even if you get a computer science degree you're going to be upgrading and changing because if he used to work on model piece you gotta learn to work on computerized vehicles now but my my point on this is that uh it seems that you're. Actually developing the way I'd say the way out of this the way into this is probably better in her current job. She told me she could work anywhere in the world and in tests a senator Elliots question about where we get jobs in areas we need I think kind of solves that we have sold Arkansas is the natural state this is where you want to come not because we got all these tech jobs and we pay a lot but because you can fish hunt swim boat camp hike enjoy the outdoors and it doesn't cost that much to live here but if I were a. A person with the skills to my daughter but I like to hunt fish camp could do all those things this would seem to be the perfect place for us to to sort of bland those two sales points to our state because if they got that she said if if I've got a broadband connection that I could work anywhere and except for it but my house which really doesn't it for broadband but we're working on that too course but Is this a way that we. We've moved away is it to the Arkansas advantage to move away from place specific jobs as opposed to and it's not of course all online cyber all this but but where you don't have to go to Silicon Valley for somewhere that costs a ridiculous amount to live but you can stay in your own community where your family is everything and still have a good job can you comment on that concept. I think we all want to and I'm gonna do a rare thing and give an opinion on that but I think that we can capitalize on the momentum already in that direction I'm from a very rule part of the state so I still have a lot of connections there and the real estate market in those very rule areas of state has been so hot during the pandemic is everybody got sent home and we've had a lot of in migration from other states for people who can and are now working remotely so I think that it's probably not in my lane to talk about how we recruit people into the state but I think we have some more momentum in that direction that we could use to market to people who have that opportunity to work remotely because we we are expanding our broadband we have a very low cost of living here there's a lot of things that we could sell to get people who are not placed balance to choose this as their place. Thank you Dr Martin that's. Good that makes me feel good here you say. And if I could add to that and I don't want to minimize the need to have more business and industry in small rural areas because IT is not going to replace all of that but just an anecdotal story in West Memphis high school they have one of the state's top cybersecurity programs for students I have a cybersecurity range students leave their ready to work they know what they're doing and talking with the principal there Mr Kerry Jackson he said his plan for this is he cannot in Crittenden County I believe that is where West Memphis is he he cannot keep enough jobs he's not in control of the job situation there and his students graduate leave they might even just go over to Memphis they moved over there for jobs but if he can guarantee he is preparing them with tech skills today they can get a job and still promote tax dollars in West Memphis by staying there so he is the principal seeing this vision which translates even more so if you get into apprenticeships OR two year degree or four year degree that you can live anywhere and do that and starting even in the high school area where he says my community is is shriveling because we have lost industry how can I keep my people here I can train them with I. T. skills I make sure that they're generating revenue here. And it's not limited to I. T. as long as you have the technology you could be in a lot of different feels as long as you could work from home so I think that's important too as long as you have the broadband to the computer and another computer skills to be able to navigate that you would have in the office anyway you're not limited to IT so I think there's there's definitely an opportunity to sell Arkansas is a state that is friendly to those types of occupations that allow remote work and and doctor mark I appreciate you bring up the real state issue one more competitive thing we have an while real estate prices have gone up they don't approach northern California is I've when my daughter was out there on the sign but we went out and we got to go to this Steve Jobs parents house where they built the first computer in the garage it looks like Broadmoor and the house was over a million dollars now so he gave me an idea how we have something to offer not only can you have a decent house at a good price or really nice houses not too high price that gives us a competitive advantage over places like you just mentioned I've not even thought about the real estate exam but but thank you all panel this is one the most informative panels that we've had in a long time thank you so much thank you madam chair. Great conversation great conversation and I really appreciate everybody being here and now we're going to move on to doctor Kathy Reagan's with the there who's the assistant superintendent for public schools in Bologna. And who has looked at workforce development from a different angle. And she has a number of industry folks with her here today and I'll leave you to your program and to introduce all those folks. Dr Breyer. Okay okay I have a state thank you well it's certainly a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak with you today and That may be too little. Thank you. Okay I think we're ready and I don't want to scare you I don't have a major slide show here today just wanna give you a visual of some of the things that we've been working on and I just want to talk for a moment about and let you know how this program has developed it's with our partners that I have here today I have Mister David Knapp pose from apple's construction Mr lands rights Kinko constructors. Mr bill Rochelle with ABC and Dr Hank Brady with you a little Rock and I'm so pleased to decided this is been a true professional learning community have you heard that term before yes and this is the power of collaboration and so I wanted to share with you just a little bit about the brochure before I start with the really the focus today we're going to highlight the nine twelve program but the Bologna pathways academy is a K. twelve program R. K. six students as you'll notice we have to focus on soft skills and work ethic we want to make sure those babies learn to read and we want to make sure that they have good math foundational skills and stem activities there on a blended learning opportunity which is something that we've wanted to provide our community in the seven eight grades we know that middle school students have unique needs they have that social they need to have self awareness and confidence they want to be ground but they're not grown yet and so we are going to enhance those skills teaching them how to work together hi to make informed decisions and to have civic responsibility and so another area that we're focusing on in our mission is career exploration so at the middle school level they're being flooded with opportunities to meet people and various career opportunities and then we have started what I want to focus on today is a nine twelve program in commercial construction management and this is the first day that we met lance right brought out some individuals there was partnered with that pose and still Siler in Middleton heating and air and and just gave an introduction to students about an interest level meeting and this was the day that we had our first meeting. Students were there this is an orientation day after we promoted it the students I signed up for the program we have an orientation day at A. B. C. with parents and students and industry partners. This is Mister bill Rochelle he comes out to our program and works with our teachers and teachers with students. Where were not only just working with our students but we're working with our instructors this is professor guard C. from UA little rock she's partnering with my instructors on BM building information modeling and that's how we have been able to connect the curriculum because they need training as well knowing what's out there in the industry. The students interacting. Giving them opportunities to visit. Industry partners. This was a very introduction to resting day to me breaking the safety I didn't realize what a dangerous job this could be but we have really focused on safety with our students this is a job site we have there at Bologna and provides a great opportunity the job superintendent there Mr Thurman he's he's up frequently working with our students to give them opportunities to see the progression of a job. I don't know if you can recognize this gentleman up here on on the porch there but that's Mr David Knapp pose he meets with our students frequently when they attend activities. This is at Conway regional hospital. It gave students a terror. This is a service learning project that our students are working on they wanted to enhance the stadium so they learned a lot about sheet metal and and they help to construct that so this is giving them some hands on service learning activities. This is an activity that we learned from speaking to our business partners we were it waiver by a lake one day and you know I said tell me what else you not we need to know that so one of the problems that we have is our students that we can't hire people because they don't have a good driving record because they don't think about we can't afford you on insurance can you provide something in your curriculum that would allow them to understand the importance of a good driving record so we brought out the state police for an activity day. This is a time when Dr Hank Brady met with parents and students we talk about personalized learning and it takes time to personalized learning so these two mothers came in with their signs to talk about construction management program. And this is our first two students who will be attending UA little rock and the fall in the construction management. Program we're very excited about that so kind of one just take you through some visuals that I just really want to talk about. How we have developed this program and why I think it's unique we started about Five years ago I sat down at the table with David that pose Lance Reid wanted to do something and construction management a new in our area we have the demographics we're in central Arkansas are students we've produced good construction workers in superintendents and project managers and I had more of a shop model in mind and we talked about it I never could get it off the ground in the line yeah I just didn't have the facilities lance even brought me a drawing of some plans for a building that we could start a shop model and then the pandemic came and then we continue to think about it as we look for this blended learning opportunity and we look at the research and the shortage in the construction industry. And students need to know about what jobs are available so I started meeting with these gentlemen again and I believe lance introduced me to Dr Brian Dr Brady introduced me to bill Rochelle and then we all just kind of met I've been with my partners and colleagues at the school to Mr Knapp poses office we just sat around the table like this and we just took notes so tell us what students need to know and I'll never forget the day that Mr Napol said to me he said I don't need you to send me a polished skilled construction worker I need you to send me someone has a basic knowledge of where they want to go and with the foundational skills work ethic soft skills and so we started thinking about that one of the things he mentioned is that one of the problems they see students leave high school they really don't know what they want to do so they're going to in a apprenticeship program and they invest in them for about a year then they decide there's another tried they would prefer better and so they switch them over to another trait so we're trying to do in exposure model it is not a shot model and when I speak to people the I think immediately I'll will you know students are in the shop all night but they are not and I don't have a lot of facilities and Bologna for this program we go out to our industry partners they're supplying those facilities for me it is blended learning students are not on site every day they come in we have a calendar of events we are working to build a curriculum. With our partners math my seniors that went through math senior math as a technical math course the first unit they learned about four oh one K.'s they learned about the benefits package how do I want to how do I want to withhold from my check in my working on our lease hourly salary we went out to Mr now poses a. Have business and they did a whole presentation for us with with their people it was very beneficial to our students that's a life skill they need to know and I recognize that I'll never forget when we finish the the meeting Mr napa's told them this is why I'm I'm I'm probably gonna bears in but he's just a great partner and a great man I know he said to the students. I'm not telling you that you have to come to work for now oppose he said I'm telling you we have a lot of good competitors to have good business get packages though what I'm telling you is you need a package you need to know what your benefits are and you need to know have a look at those benefits and you need to decide where you're going to work based on those those benefits because it is important and our students learned a lot that was in there saying your math we are connecting our algebra and our geometry to the the skills in the job work force we are at at the present time the senior boys they have a project they're working on what they tell me today they say were meeting the mayor at eleven o'clock six right tell me how it goes so they're building a pavilion the city park but they're taking those skills are looking at drawings they're looking at raw materials versus buying a kit. one group is in charge of concrete what types of concrete do we need how much do we need how do we get that ordered what does that look like so this is this is how we're building our literacy classes senior English will look more like building resumes writing good emails letters business top technical riding. And learning how to communicate in the work force and the students are living now there's a connection to it I had a young man the other day he he's going to work and he said I need to get that OSHA ten certificate now before we were telling them you're going to get an OSHA ten ten certificate the right yes but I'm not really sure what that is he needs it now he needs that certificate so what we started building is we have all of our students will have core construction this is our first semester so we're we're learning as we go we're tweaking things as we go with the help of our partners that all students have core construction through NC C. R. that's a foundational apprenticeship course they have credit for that they'll be testing out at ABC in January to get their certification that's a good start for them and then they will all have OSHA ten thirty two things that we started out with that goals that our students would have certification wise in that process we have been able to work with you a little rock we want students to know you can go to a college you can go to the work force both of those pathways are great but you need to know which one you want to do and what meets your needs and so we've developed non degree certifications at UA little rock and I'm very proud of that because I think the conversation has began to develop about we're all responsible for workforce readiness isn't that why public education was the ballot was to help people prepare for the work force so that's something that we're looking at that a little bit differently and if students need to go if they want to go to college they need another pathway and so that's really the purpose there are students that need to go to college there are students that don't need to go to college to reach their goals but we want to give them opportunity so I say that to say. Our whole model is an exposure model I'm learning every day but by bringing the industry in as educators we often start off with our standards and we build what we think is a curriculum that prepares students for the world. And we forget to ask the industry and we've also I believe as educators. You know we we're doing what we think is right sometimes but we need to remember that the work force changes so what we were doing in the classroom our how we were preparing students doesn't need to be the same sometimes we get into that that mode and so this is been so refreshing for me and I believe in my core that we are doing the right thing for kids and that we are building them a pathway through exposure teaching them foundational skills and connecting them to these partners so that they can go right into the work force and I know what they're going to date I have a I'm gonna tell you to short stories that I'm going to turn it over to my partners because I want you to hear from them I have a young lady. Who knew that she wanted to be in interior design. And she joined this program and she said I'm not really sure if this program is for me because I I know I want to be in interior design I want to get a degree in that. And but she didn't like the traditional setting and she was looking for a different pathway and I said why don't you join us and I think there will be something for you. And she has learned so much about the industry. And matched her with professor guards see who has an interior design degree and Tucker to you a little rock there was that was to follow she had the best time with With professor curtesy at the at the university and she enters tire to another individual that she had worked with talk to her about the pathway but then I got a chance to visit with her in the car when I was driving her down there you know and we just got a chance to to talk about her personally and I think that's important to get that connection with students and so when we talk about personal education plans. It's not just abroad here's a here's a checklist for personalized education plans it's about exposing students to show them what their strengths are and I guess I'm so passionate about this hi res two boys. And I have heard your comment about your student and your child and My boys struggled after high school. And they went to college but they still struggled one didn't stay in college he's a general manager in car sales now and he's doing great but he struggled and I couldn't understand where I had failed them. Because I was an education. And they left high school not really knowing what they wanted to do but they thought they were supposed to go to college and I thought they did they were to. And the my youngest he he struggled any kind of felt like a failure because he didn't want to stay there and then he had to kind of find his path he didn't have that exposure and so both of them I would I'm happy to say are doing well now they have their pathways and they're they're good workers because they had good work ethic that I have a passion to make sure that when students walk across that stage and we say congratulations you have graduated from high school that they don't look at us and say what now. That they know where they're going these two boys that are going to UA little rock. Their moms call me because they were gonna be seniors and they said is this program so new that you know is it too late for them to get in they said they're really one of the mom she said he's really anxious he's having a little anxiety he's not sure he wants to go to college he's embarrassed to tell people he doesn't think he wants to go to college because you know they think that's a problem what are you gonna do with yourself. And I said sure it's they're going to now when they leave us if this is something they want today. Well this young man has just received an offer to play football. But he told me this week he said you know that would just be putting my life on hold I know what I want to do he wants to be in construction management. And he wants to go to work now and he is is confident he walks his his size statue is just straighter and more he's more open he's communicates he has a plan and he knows and I only have him for five more minutes that really I'm going to having for many more years because I'm going to stay in contact with them that I'm just proud of what we've been doing but I want to say the key has been to go to the industry and these guys have held my hand I'm telling you they've been so kind to me landslide has designed we're starting a new course next semester pathways through simulation we'll take them from the front of a job to in the preconstruction phase all the way to the punch list and plants had to break that module it for me and I said let you gotta tell me the phases I don't understand it but that's how would making it work and I'm confident that our curriculum is good we use an NC C. R. curriculum to support what we're doing and so I just appreciate the opportunity to share with you it's of something that I think is a model that we can implement additional industries once we get this model implemented. Then we will look at medical try to get another pathway in for students but this is the model that we're gonna use that Bologna and I'd like to start Mr now pose just if you'll just start around the table I'd like for you to be able to share. Yes. just like echo what she said it's a match made in heaven the last twenty five thirty years phones are for you will go back to things that happen in the construction industry one is is that construction street smart start racing or wages we start having better benefits better packages offering our health insurance offer for one K. all offer holidays vacation days other insurances and it can't get better better better and if you're if you're people were even looking at construction industry to go into it and it always pose with me because I grew up it was always attracted to the students nowadays order tractors and construction industry because are not exposed to they're exposed to hi to the exposed to everything else in the world and I do agree with you the students seem to have an expectation that if I don't know because of a failure and so there's that side of it but the construction industry also have tremendous opportunities in a partnership of the chemical or school car for during the AHCF the city are on and on and on toward like you mentioned earlier all you need is get in there and get started they will teach them everything they needed to know and pay them while they're doing it obviously mechanical electrical licensing that is a state programs and and state licensing and ABC pretty well helps put that together are they will even pay the the companies will even pay their tuition and pay that side of it so they're starving for people and all of a sudden your staff is saying I want to get this program going to try to get more people exposed to try to get more people take part of it yes this is a match made in heaven so we were very happy to help you will continue to help those self serving as it is it's not just our companies the whole industry and we feed off the whole industry so it's it's important for all of the so. I thank you broke new ground here I think it's fertile ground I think it's a great success. Thank you for having us a group of small town near Bologna saw no miss Kathy or families and only to the for a long time and I can say her passion for this is second to none just seeing how its progress from up scheduled drawing to what you have now so it's really wanna congratulate her and her team of alone and what they put together we're really excited about it I've been in construction for about sixteen years I went through the program with doctor ray UA little rock so um and there is another it organizations just trying to connect those dots between industry an education and you know us that both we have often work a lot of schools in the state so we get interact with those kids at a certain level but not at what she provided along so being able to go in visit with them on a you know monthly basis weekly basis getting to know them personally it it shows and what we do doesn't vote can go and you know because it's a lot of what they might want to moving forward and is Mister devil said there's so many opportunities out there on average or below twenty subcontractors working on our projects H. the subcontractors looking for folks right now so there's just a tremendous amount opportunity out there with great benefits great pay and something they can do in state or close to home again just wanna read that you and what you've done and and look for to continue partner with. Thank you of the Rochelle associated builders and contractors and just to echo what Mr Navajo so what lands that is you know over the years we've had several people approach us about doing a program like this and and you know they would call us and would talk to me about it you never hear from again what what but doctor Reagan's has done it she's got this passion is you know she has created the blueprint that I think that we can take around the the state of Arkansas and do this in other school districts one other thing that I like about is a lot of time your your kids that are in athletics it's hard for them to participate in a program like this but doctor Reagan's has it set up were some of your students that came were actually athletes and so they were able to to participate doctor rigs didn't give you the numbers but I think the first class we had down at ABC we had forty five students there and what was really eye catching to me is to those students were females and so they were I'm very interested in this program but again doctor Reagan's passion for the S. and and Senate succeed I can't tell you how many times he's called me in and come to my office and said Hey help me figure this out and and we've helped her with the curriculum as you mentioned in C. C. E. R. which is the national center for construction education and research and so they don't develop the curriculum we had a B. C. also have an apprenticeship program that deals with plumbing and electrical so that's where we get our curriculum from and so we were able to work with doctor reckons look at that curriculum and then build something that's going to work for her students the students coming out having core and shitty and it's huge for these guys to be able to step on that job site and already have a basic understanding of safety and some of the core stuff as some just the basics of of being on the job site is just really a great program any. Again something that I think we can use as a blueprint around the state of Arkansas. Madam chairwoman. Honored legislators my colleagues I'm Hank ray of the department chair at UA little rock for construction management civil and construction engineering. Thirty five years in construction higher education. What keeps me awake at night is worried that David or lance will call me and want to hire somebody and I don't have anybody. two hundred students one hundred percent one hundred percent job placement I need some more students. Ninety nine percent of my students come from Arkansas ninety nine percent of them stay in Arkansas. And that's just in higher ed that's that's not really what they're worried about what they really want are heavy equipment operators carpenters plumbers of the skilled trades they can find people with college degrees because there are eighty accredited programs like mine across the United States we're the only one in Arkansas except for John Brown which is a fine fine university. One of the most expensive in the south one of the best. So what if I told you that there were jobs in Arkansas where. You could. Come home at night every night to your family have the employer provided health insurance and a four oh one K. and make enough money on one income to support your family well they're here and we can't fill them. I want you to know that any successful jobs program has got to have a job waiting for the student it can't be we're gonna teach you these things and maybe there's a job there and that's what they're talking about. Mr Nabil's and lance are hiring these young people when they're sixteen. As interns when they're eighteen thank you become full employees with benefits. Arkansas is a rural state I don't care if you live in Little Rock available this is a rule state that's what everybody sees and I look at Arkansas three million people and lots of. Woods okay. This state will not be billed out in construction during my lifetime or my children's lifetime. There will always be these jobs they might look different the technology might change. But when you got up this morning you you drove out of the driveway you won't highway he drove to a parking lot you when in a building. And everything that you touched. Was covered by construction I want you to realize people saying well this industry this industry is the biggest industry in Arkansas the biggest industry in Arkansas is construction. Now you might look it up in the statistics and it might say fourth or fifth but that's because you're not adding together. The aggregate quarries the concrete plants the commercial building what about agriculture half of agriculture is constructing construction constructing the facilities for architecture. This is going to be around for a long time and there's a tremendous shortage of workers. So I want to talk that's enough about college what I want to talk about the Bologna model. Lance called me and said I want you to talk to doctor reckons and I did it because of lance I hadn't met doctor reckons but let me tell you I am so glad that I did this here's what's different she mentioned is not a shot model when I was in school we all had shop classes it was great learned a lot of stuff but there was a stigma attached to taking a shop class that still attached my own son went to vote tech schools the problem was there was no employer involved in that process there was no Jett he wasn't being paid for by a future employer there's no job waiting at the end no that's different here and this is that's what's unique and that's what I feel that the charter school it's a regular hospital K. through twelve it's a regular high school there are no shop classes with these kids are old enough they go to existing trade programs for training that's what bill Rochelle represents associated builders and contractors it's a trade organization funded by the contractors some contractors do their own training in House. And that is the difference that's why it will work and that's why there's so much excitement let me tell you another thing. Diversity. There's never been a bigger opportunity for diversity there's never been a bigger opportunity for under underrepresented peoples whether it's the race or their gender. To get a start because there's tremendous shortage. and those opportunities or at the university level and in the trades so now is the time to support programs like this. Well I'm just gonna say I'm a little bit embarrassed I've got probably think I paid these guys But the the truth of the matter is is that it cannot be done without them and it's it's a continuous process a true professional learning community where we work together we come back to the table and say I'm struggling here tell me I can tell me how I can put this standard into the construction industry we're teaching Arkansas standards to children but we need to show them how that's applicables to the work force Colton here in this picture he said I thought before I started this program that It was a hammer and a nail he sat in understand what's available in the construction industry can you talk about computer science. That's in the construction industry there's you know just the way we operate heavy equipment waiver and Bailey we were meeting with them they were just talking about a lot of the. Changes in the equipment that they're operating and students need to know that we have I want to also tell you about we have some students that are in apprenticeships I have a young man Sheila piercing came out and talked to our students about an internship with now pose. And we had a couple of we had more than a couple the couple students were able to secure those apprenticeships and I have this young man he was sixteen his eleventh grade this year. And he tells me he's so happy when he comes on site but he goes to work and he's happy to be an apples right now and he tells me this going to be my career I'm going to work as soon as I get out of high school and I think they've told him we'll hire you if you stay in this programming you do a good job and he is confident that his career will be with now pose that's and he's he's great but he's not quite some people consider a top student that makes sense I have a lot of students in this program to help five all fours and IP's and I have some students who I have very high ACT's. Scores that it education. We should not define a student by what we thank fits in the square box and I can't say enough about how we're trying to make sure this is personalized learning I have four boys going to Martin outcome mechanical electrical to speak with does the brand they're having a luncheon and he's going to talk to them about the letter cold career opportunities I have one student he just knows he's going to go to work there we were on site this morning and napco mechanical electrical was over the baseball field working and We've visited with them for a moment and I said I'm thinking this young man Mason he hit on a green hat C. I'm learning. Representative Cozart that manger an apprentice right we have a green hat on this. He had a green hard hat and I said well I'm thinking Mason might be and the permanency said yes he he said I am and course those two boys that I had with me and and one of my young man he said I want to go to work for manta mechanical electrical he knows that's where he wants to go to work and he's confident in that and so I have a few other students I've sit down and talk with every senior because this is the last semester I have them. And. You know have you found anything you want you're interested in what sparked your interest what do you want to really work on next semester so in this senior semester and in the spring if if it's welding we're going to connect them with some people that have welding that gives them a little bit more knowledge about that if it's plumbing we have people we have students interested in plumbing we already have connected are to students to construction management the students did not have any concurrent credit before but they're gonna have eight semester hours when they go into the program and that's going to be actually eight semester hours of commercial concerning a construction management courses and then I believe they're going to take college speech that's what we've decided they're gonna take that is concurrent credit but these are students that had not taken any concurrent credit but now they have a purpose and they want to get on the path and so we're gonna work with them on their. I can't say enough about. How important it is and I've learned to make sure that we stay up with how the workforce is changing you here twenty first century workforce all the time what does that really mean. If we don't teach our students how to communicate and thank we're not going to have them ready for the workforce some thank you for giving us the time to speak with you. Thank you so very very much let me see by Senator Johnson. Thank you madam chair and doctor against thank you for what you're doing and gentleman on the panel have now owns don't know all of you in on some of you about my whole life like David and our dads were friends and we go way way back but to my brother worked for napco electrical back for a one point eight cents passed away but I understand we're doing we're always looking in education and workforce of how do we get our young people from here to there. And it's so much it's a lot of. Morton said about it the less is done it seems like but it seems that maybe you've created the pathway that we can can following and and Mitch I want to and and I'm asking all of you but especially you doctor against because I visited an elementary school in my district. Four months ago and the entire school is decorated with tenants from colleges. And and while I believe a less rust I'm not speaking against higher education in any way shape or form or fashion but it I was a little almost concerned that it was such an emphasis put on on higher ed that you know that we know that a significant percentage of students in the elementary school are going to go in the trades or something and I didn't want it to be that stigma we're with you don't go get a PhD that you're not a success in life and I appreciate so much what you're doing in this but It should we. Try to find a way to. Emphasize this type of pathway just like this particular grade school was doing that the college pathway and and could you comment on the way to do it I guess take him out thank you for taking your students to the job site and seeing these things maybe get some excited but but I know that it's just not. This one path or another path is not for everybody we we have we ought we need everybody in society could you yes speak to that an in kind of a global so yes and that's that that's exactly correct and I think that's what our models trying to do is to show to show students that there are pathways and you know if you want to be a job superintendent you don't have to go to you a little rock get it agreed to be a job superintendent we've got a student that's in that path and he knows that Mr Navajos can show you how to do that and there's a path for doing that but they need to know how to do that and we are also looking at we will be celebrating the students that are going to work just as we sign for athletics we're planning on this spring having a signing day bring in our partners putting that publicizing that putting that information out we're excited when students go to work and I think that's how we will measure the success of our program you know we live by test scores. in public education we often do and we even get a letter grade based on our test course sometimes one day one day and we create learned helplessness and small children and that's one of the things that we're trying to do is to help them see that there is a lot of pathways and that everybody has a skill and even through service learning teaching them in transit motivation to work were you doing that with our smaller children we're going to have a garden they're working on that now getting that planned so we are looking for other opportunities for them to come out with meeting their community needs this compact these boys that were on this football team. Hi we had resurfaced are tracked and somehow the sheet metal I got taken down it wasn't re budgeted and they came to me they said we need we need to get this fixed it looks terrible and so we said well let's talk about how we can do that they created the project they got three bids they Brought it back to me I kind of went to the table for them and we talked about it we got that funded it was left out of the project but we got offended that they help do the work and they help decide and they're proud of that and so those are things I think all of those are skills that we want to celebrate that that working. Is honorable and it's good and You know we've had a lot of celebrations down at a ABC the orientation day was just great and parents were proud you know parents are often reluctant to put their kids and workforce programs because they have this mentality that well my kid won't be as successful if they don't go to college but we need it but these parents are so proud I had a mother tell me this week her son has dyslexia and he has struggled but he is flourishing in this program and she says want to tell you it's it's better whole family life it's been such a blessing to us because he's happy to go to school he's enjoying what he's doing he knows he has a path to go to work and he's good at it he's a great communicator he's just struggles in that one area and he's always felt like he was going to be a failure at school so he withdrawal and he would not he would not share and shine his his skills so I think that you're exactly right we have to promote that and I love the idea that you gave me because I think. In elementary schools we should be putting up. Pictures of our kids that are successful so that they can see the students from Bologna R. one the things that my students noticed at the orientation day lance right was there lance is a graduate Dr price the there was several other industry partners there and I will graduate since some people were not they they just had different but everyone was successful and everyone's contributing to the work force. Thank you so much. Thank you madam chair. Representative makes. Thank you madam chair and the doctor against thank you for being here and as long as representative you can imagine how proud I am of this program and Doctor Reagan's called me to tell me about it I was very excited because what you've created the symbiotic relationships with business is you've helped answer one of the most fundamental questions that students ask one of my ever gonna do with this stuff and you've created a vision for it and I really appreciate that I've got a couple questions and in depth you may have already hit on them and for your panelists at the end of the table saw got three questions and you all can kind of jump in how many students are currently per are participating in the the program what kind of wages can the students expect because from what I understand some of these jobs pay more than some of the I. T. professionals that we were just talking about earlier and then my final question is have you approached any other schools or have any other schools expressed an interest in duplicating which all of done. Okay I'm going to answer the first question we have ninety six students presently K. twelve about forty about forty seven now and we have students are asking to come in the house call program it's Mr and I have a couple students asking at the lower grades and they'll be coming into the program pretty good number for the first year we were surprised we thought the K. eight would be a little bit higher that with the pandemic and things changing and I think people want to sit back and see what this new program is all about so we we do anticipate more students next year and I'm gonna let the. Panelist Mr poser yeah I want to talk about salaries and. Not just her bill lance entry level fourteen to sixteen that's what no education once you get started a program in advance to your craft twenty to twenty two foreman once you get to know your good it goes up to twenty four point five one of Dr Reddy's graduates starts at about sixty sixty two a lot of Americans seven thousand year. folks are so this have full benefits or paid insurance. Private owner is very patient and most cases a four one K.. So our rural full fully benefited professions. And we have some contractors in Northwest Arkansas a standard materials group up there's often of twenty seven dollars an hour they can't find people to drive a concrete three trucks so there's a lot of opportunities but like a mission of hope said about fourteen to sixteen dollars an hour and then the benefits a lot of our members are paying bonuses so you've got bonuses for attendance and things like that so I mean you can get you know kids can make great money we've got a contractor Morrilton Arkansas commits a lecture they've got twenty five and twenty six year old does they're making over a hundred thousand dollars a year now that being said they're having to work for several months up in North Dakota these guys are making you know they're making great money they get to come home but you know if you're somebody that that single and you can do that I mean the money out there's just a that's probably limitless. Control what they said on wages that's pretty standard what we're seeing I had the opportunity would be able to work full time and go to school with your little rock so um that helped me a lot in my career but also the the overtime opportunities out there so I'd just multiplies one Mr David and bill or saying so the the total package between wages and you know benefits for you know very well. That's how I work my way through college I did construction today into classes at night. Well I want to add to that lance is not unusual in that most of my senior and juniors work full time and there in such demand that their employer say okay go take your class and come back to work and and they're glad to have them so when they call me and want to hire somebody I'm telling them you might have to hire an eighteen year old freshman as an as an intern one other thing I forgot to the goes long as I have here's a story young lady from Perryville Hurst here heard uncle was a superintendent with CD I I know I'm not supposed to mention that come in from. Okay but she so that's how she knew about construction otherwise young people don't know and that's one one of my greatest obstacles to overcome this and so that's the unique thing about the Bologna pathways is when they when these children begin to learn to read they read stories about building buildings and highways when they learn math they learned by looking at a set of plans that might say what's the distance from here to here or let's talk about square footage and so there's a practical solution and by doing that through the elementary school what happens is we're going to do away with any bias against the trades and they're gonna not assume that that's not a legitimate work path to go into that's actually one of the biggest obstacles and one of the huge advantages to this model as opposed to a the program that puts the students in shop class so that's a huge advantage it solves a lot of problems for me but my young lady. She worked her way through school first she got her associate's degree and she worked full time for that company while she was in school. Then she decided to get a bachelor's degree and by the way. UA little rock supports this program and we've articulated and signed a memorandum of understanding so that the only pathway students can earn the associate's degree in construction while they're still in high school. And that's that's a true to push to degree is half of the degree then if they come to you a little rock with sixty three more hours to get the bachelor's degree. and and and so I don't expect to get but maybe ten percent of the students but I'll be glad to get that ten percent and so this young lady finishes. her bachelor's degree in construction management and in her last semester takes a full time job before she's finished school for seventy five thousand dollars with a mechanical subcontractor working on the casino and hot springs. In two days a week the letter off to go finish her classes. She finishes school with no student debt and she didn't come from a wealthy family. That's the opportunities if you go all the way up the chain but the the trades jobs or grade as well I have you all talk to or been approached by other schools about replicating this yet or is it still too new for that well I've had a couple of people just mentioned in passing but we've not really talked explicitly about it I think sometimes it is a blended model where students are not in school every day and and we're it it's different than anything that's ever been done so I think people are still trying to figure it out and they always think it's a shot model they still think that I'm having students. Learn to weld you know or go to class every day in the shop model so we're still working on that but I did visit with young man from North Little Rock a bill set up a meeting one night we had a good visit with Patrick and so we are we are open to sharing we feel like that it can be a model and like I said we plan to add additional industries but we want to get the construction industry curriculum built and and work with like that was the one industry that we needed to start with thank you. So what what are the things that we've said you and I am taught before it's a lot of work it is a lot of work you get twenty wonderful at the end but you know I've I've told doctor Reagan's that you'd be hard pressed to find a whole twenty people around state who be willing to take on but it's the absolute ideal model when you think about starting and I and I think doctor braid and the the thing that you said here is that at the end of act that has to be a job at the end of that thing we forget about that so much and we spend so much money just educating and training but we don't know what the job is we're not specifically training for a job at the end of the road and that's exactly what you all are doing right here you don't have the industry involvement from the beginning it's very difficult we set up like programs but at the end of the day when you ask how many students have actually gotten a job you know one of the things that I don't know if anybody takes is Arkansas money in politics you get that but there's a really good article about what's going on in Bologna but there's also a great big article here about women leaderships in the and the architecture engineering and construction industry and the opportunities that are there and all of these females who are doing fantastic things I don't know how those ladies ever got there but it's the kind of thing that we need to focus on and let others other of our young women know about these kinds of things as well as are meant but summer working for manhole to engineering companies and and doing really great things so this is a huge industry that we really do need to be pursuing so let me see representative Bragg. Pardon my commentary. Thank you madam chair I just want to follow up a little bit about this discussion about attitudes of I think anybody it's worked and workforce development nose for years we push kids away from this and now I think we're turning the corner on that but one that challenges also we've seen is is with the parents and is there has there been any intentional effort to address this change of attitude with the parents because we need to have them encouraging their children. Yeah I think what Dr Regan's did the first time she had her orientation she told us she was going to set it up and she was going to the from nine to one during the day and I thought man that that times will be tough but you had a lot of parents that came and took off work so what we realized is you do have to start the education with the parents and so we're we've kicked around and I did ABC you know we go to a lot of job fairs we see a lot of job fair for students we need to have a job fair for the parents when the parents to come out and see what's going on the construction see the opportunities that are out there in be and in different that with with drones and things like that so yes we we've definitely got to educate the parents because a lot of time that's with the resistance starts. We also had a training for parents with technology distant orientation when the students got their their computers and and just help them to understand that too so they could be involved we try to do that we've sent out several surveys Hey we've been in school for weeks apart your needs what are we missing you know we've we've set out to survey since school started. Representive Cozart. You know basically all I can say is thank you This is something that has quite a few of us in this room have worked on ever since we've been here and we're start to see a. That coming around but we started way late you know we always seem to be. Substance in the ditch we've got to pull it out before you ever get cranked up on it and that is something we should have done a long time ago and like like I heard some I listen to part of this before I got here like I told you all have to go to the meetings all the way back I was driving a list to deal talk about our is. And however it is is a great program and you know never what I say that we don't need college we do because that's what a lot of these kids will do they will get that associate degree get that bachelor degree in even double up you know if the once they get going to run your own business you might wanna master's degree or even doctors agree to to do that so. Will never say that but but there's little Johnny up there and little baby that's not ever going to make that is just not there fit Johnny probably likes to stick his head under the hood of a truck and work on that engine and fix that before that gas engine more so that he wants to do anything and so we've got to find those places for these kids and this is one of the and hello I'm I'm the rebel contractor I'm not like them you know I don't wear those hard at so but you know still we've got to have employees I I could use five of them right now I can't find one so it's it's really hard. And it doesn't matter what you offer to pay a but some of you don't want to work for someone or leave or they're at to actually do it most of the store come either house sometimes but it's it's something we've got to really work on it I I just applaud your for what you're doing we need to pass this on I appreciate you guys spending your time and taking your time to invest in kids in Arkansas and they might go somewhere else to work in another state but you're investing in the lives that will never ever come back board it's going to always you always have that as something that you could put on your hat where that but we need to make that grow we need to go to other towns we need to go to other schools that have a conversion charter or something like that are given to start one that they can do the same thing with the schools and and and hot springs we've got a good chance that we could do that over there we have two or three big contractors over there that could help out and I'd be glad to help out to you but we just got to get started in the schools so thank you for each and every one I don't really have a question but but I just think you're doing a great job thank you madam chair for me. Senate let's see representative Godfrey you had thank you manager and it's getting late but definitely just wanted to say thank you for your presentation for your work it's obvious that has taken a lot of work and that that may be why it hasn't been so easily replicated in other contexts but I think you hear the support from this group that we would love to facilitate that because there are so many good opportunities created and my background is in education and curriculum specifically and so I'm really impressed by a curious about is that and the curriculum development piece on the Arkansas academic standards side of things that the integrated English and math curricula and and I'm wondering at the district level or maybe at the school level the program level who's doing that where he's doing that curriculum development work and do you have curriculum materials and documents that would be worth sharing and as a way to kind of get started obviously this program is is very expensive is Mary and in there light emitting pieces you have the curricular piece you have that in C. C. E. R. curriculum side of things and you have the the partnership with employers but it does seem to me there could be an advantage in kind of sharing that initial curriculum development work in integrating this workforce skills whether they be and. Clinton specific or kind of cross disciplinary with other districts that they can kind of tangibly see this is what we're doing this is the way this kind of teaching and learning looks in our classrooms and and here's that across Walker creek cleanup or or you know something that other districts could start to get their hands and eyes on and to see how it may be feasible in their conduct I personally just as a curriculum or does it to you but I think either districts could really benefit from seeing that that work and we are building is you know a year at a glance I have a the problem is we've been building a month that a go ahead sometimes with some of our courses that way because we are wanting to integrate that into a true application model but what we're doing is we meet frequently in my math teachers made with doctor knows who's our curriculum program administrator myself we meet industry partners I take I take things back to them and say okay tell me what's wrong with this and tell me what else needs to be added and then we go back to the table and work with our teachers and we took a couple of days in the summer too to get started and then we frequently made throughout since school started that I curriculum program specialist is that we work with arch Ford so Jacob citizen and Jennifer make my hand has they've been working with us helping our teachers as another support we're small district will have a lot of resources so we utilize arch Ford and they've been great to help us with that. Okay let's see Senator Elliott. Thank you madam chair I have one of the things I've always by a couple of things I'll leave it a couple of things of all is this always bothered me in education and one is that we act as if something math is something that's unattainable for average folks that's just something we teach kids so stop always bothered me and the other thing is that We do one thing at a time and so often which has gotten us to where we are now we used to concentrate on career tech and with that no we're going to stop doing that because now we can't we've got to go over here and do higher at and it puts us into these these situations where we Johnny can't read so we're going to concentrate on that can't do math so what I want to commend you for is for doing two things at once even with this presentation today because there should not be any cut any competition the way we set it up over all these years between higher ed and what we're talking about but we've got doctor brace sitting here today with higher ed we've got the folks who are out there are actually do when the applied work and you still seek kept us in a straight all the time of chasing something because we won't do more than one thing at a time and I just think that's fantastic I want to say that because my questions actually for doctor Bray but I just wanted Hall of you know how you are setting a model for how we can move forward and not keep making these mistakes it this program looks like the highest performing career tech programs in the world's of links with the way Switzerland has in Germany has I serve on the board but we actually study that kind of thing and this just makes my heart happy so Dr great to you When you when you mentioned that this is a great time to be thinking about diversity and how the opportunity isn't there one of the things I've seen over the years time and time again is most of the time to get diverse city into a program we have to think and do a little bit differently from what we're all used to such as saying well it's open for everybody and it just doesn't work to get everybody so I'm wondering in in your program at UA little rock what does diversity look like in the program that could perhaps inform us whether or not there are other things we need to do to take advantage of the diversity that we really can happy and in such programs as fees. Thank you representative will have. Well I think as other people have noticed what I'm seeing the biggest changes and the most immediate and obvious or gender strides our diversity in my department which also includes engineering is about fifteen percent which is not enough because it doesn't look like the community we live in. And some of the obstacles are one of them and is in construction management Parents who have made it minority parents that have made it might really want their kids to going to feels with names I recognize like architecture engineering law accounting. A construction management sounds like a trade unless you happen to know somebody who's in one of these excellent jobs so that has been my biggest barrier to overcome his by the time a child is in junior high. There's a built in bias and has also mention that that's apparent bias and so Kitty come home and say I found out about this thing called construction manager want to go into it and the parents think and you're going to wear to a bill. Well and that's okay if if that's the job they want to come in from my perspective in it you at Little Rock that's been the hardest thing for me to overcome so. Regardless so regardless of race or gender my construction management students out on the engineers a lifetime earnings their potential because they're gonna be managers. and so I'll give you one real life example if it's okay so. A young black man who is in my construction management program sophomore comes may this spring any says I've got a interview. within apple's. In Greenville Mississippi. I'm nervous can you help prepare me for the interview and I said yeah I can but while I take you to our assistant dean who is a older black man. And so this is the dean took him under his wing and was able to tell this young man things that I couldn't telling coming from a white man. And and to say for example. if they ask you what kind of music you like don't say wrap say anything else. And so these are these are stereotypes and biases that we all have in us that. Even we try to overcome. We don't always their cultural and that's not going to take place instantly but so that's one example any got the job by the way and you know they'll be fighting over him because and not because of his race but because he's competent and so Kenneth will bring more people into the program yeah yeah that's that's what I I really think that it is okay if they're fighting over him because of his race because it just comes with the territory or not to hire somebody who's not competent but is absolutely okay a that we are hiring this person because he's black and he's confident because I as you said it is going to encourage some other good people going to start to see somebody who looks like them and and I totally understand that advice but I'm wondering from the people who would be doing the hiring but if he did say he likes right would you hire him or not with that affect you well I don't know what he said. I don't know what he said but they probably didn't ask yeah I know but I understand that and so that but and and that's a really good example though because I understand totally why that person said that and so that's why I'm wondering on the other side the people who are doing the hiring are people like are you guys looking at being more culturally aware and if somebody says something that does not comport with the way you think we're going to talk through the eyes I see lands down there smiling because he probably will start its really interesting because because I get asked that all the time for lists and really they're not supposed to ask but there but yeah so D. E. is a big factor yeah yes well I would like to discuss with you sometime and talk with you but it's not the break because of things don't just happen and that is very very true and the people of color community when you're just not been a part of something we have to figure out other ways to get them involved and I have what would like to help with that because we there are things just have to change it and we know we workforce is now so yes ma'am like the F. plan okay all right thank you representative garner. Thank you madam chair and I just want to let you know how excited we are about this program many of us in here have four hours three and a half hours to drive home after this meeting and we're steer it still here asking questions so thank you very much for being here and is it is so exciting to to hear about what's going on my question is about resources where are you getting the money and what what do we need to do is a legislature to help facilitate the growth of this program through the rest of the state. Well we did receive a grant from Arkansas public school resource center which will just be an initial start up grant a CS Graham and that helped us with the technology course eventually will have to read as replenish that after you know he gets older that the industry has helped us the hard hats the safety vest the goggles on orientation day when we pass that out to the students and you notice the pathways academy hard hat of the industry. About that for us lance right actually organize that with our business partners and they put in I can't tell you the times that bill Rochelle has fed my students lunch you know what we got in there for training they're so excited he's sitting time you come for training for the day off the gym there like yeah and it's it's great and the they love it. Sabrina's forty five students now order food for seventy five of those football players Getty so. But you know the Arkansas contractors licensing board has supported us and Like I said our industry partners haven't have. Supported us with some finances we will have to have just purchased some curriculum through NCC our construction technology that's our next course and so how we use district finds ATM money and so we're just hoping that really you know sometimes you think about financial but their time just like today I know they have another job you know they have and. Mr that pose and lance's we took a group to Kinko constructors and lance spent the day with them we took two groups they did the bill model he brought over a gentleman from the IMS and and they explained to the students how they're saving money using this building information modeling system the artificial intelligence that is working for companies they don't have to tear out what my students are coming back telling me about the issue no hi there they can see if this is gonna work in their building this on the computer first and then there and so some of my students got really interested in that after they went to the site visit that day and you know drones we're gonna start with drums this next semester glance tell me exactly what drones on the device so that that in the grant he certified and drones this time he'll come out and help me with that so you know I know he's like oh she's calling again but we're trying to get additional partners to and we are developing some partners that we need additional support so that we don't wear these gentlemen out all the time but I just can't express that resource is what's driving this it's the connection I can't do it without these industry partners I'm not skilled enough to know and it's taught me that there there industry changes every day and the only way we're going to stay up with that and prepare our kids is to get out there and talk to them bill is set up for me to take a couple of my instructors and we're going to the trades crafts. National craft championships I just got that email is based on how the tile down but is that not going to be awesome when my guys that are teaching can go to that organizations. Championship. And watch the students compete in the skilled trades and then when they come back they're more equipped to talk to our kids and then you know maybe eventually we'll take some students to something and then they can start competing maybe we can start a team like you know FFA has a judging team maybe we start of a team with our students as we develop this. Do you all stay I mean I know covid during I. I'm a big proponent of SkillsUSA. But I know during code they didn't have it all did they haven't issued right all I don't I just don't hear appeals going to answer I don't hear as much about that as we probably should syndrome on the skills to the state board of directors and so last year was for two but we are having the competition in hot springs this year on April the twelfth the competition will take place on April the twelfth at the judging in a warning will take place on April thirteenth so he's coming back also the folks here at the state Keith midnight he he's done a tremendous job and we have now have over three thousand members FOR skills USA so they've done a phenomenal job is one building it back up that that that is that is just such a huge thing for for young people a real great opportunity this myself. Okay do we have let me see can't representative Bragg you had a question or to some of the state just critical I'm just real curious about your journey to get here because about nine years ago as a freshman legislator I was naive enough to think I could introduce a bill. That is doing almost exactly what you're doing but it hit the educational institutional brick wall they said we can't do that students have to be in their seats and all this and that I'm just curious what what's changed or what obstacles have you had to overcome to get to this point the. Well there's been a few I will tell you that my dad. Was the administrative contractors lasting board for several years he's been retired now for probably how fourteen years or so. That I knew about. And the importance of construction and he had actually worked with you a little rock about twenty seven years ago to do a survey and it indicated that unless there was a systematic approach to getting students to this industry there to be a severe shortage in twenty five years and that's that's proven to be trained. And so we are we've had these conversations so sometimes I would just go sit with that on the back porch and talk about the hello what to be doing for kids and then like I said I'm I got with these gentlemen I have had resistance this year from educators and the high school building. Because I thought that one of these kids going today why not come to school every day and it you know and you just keep when you believe in something and you know and you have this support you just keep going you know it's just as and and and I think the timing was right like I said we tried about five years ago to get started and all things generally work out best and that timing because now I have that vision of I have realized I'm down the wrong path I'm down the same path that people been going down for years I need to get over here and a different model and so and they've helped me all of these gentlemen and more have helped me and I hope that we have gained additional partners but. I understand what you're saying and I thought it a time that my. My idea was gone that the passion was still there so when I saw an opportunity to bring it back then that's that's how we did it and I have I believe I have and I so appreciate you staying here today I know it's late and I do appreciate it but Hodges I've been in education thirty two years I don't know how much longer I'll be an education that It's my it's my desire to make this quite a finish on that I'd I do something that makes a difference for kids and that it changes people's outlook on workforce that because I have come to realize. Why we even have education if it's not to prepare people to each and every individual has arrived and it's equitable this this program is equitable because every child has a place in it and they have a skill that's needed in our in our work force. I hope that answers your question but it is hard when you have a negative but you know I had to realize they don't know what they don't know and when you're not involved in it you just don't know what you're talking about sometimes and so I think that that even in my own district. And that attitude is changing. I had hoped to have an as I said earlier today with the reason we're having this meeting in this room is because I really wanted to have conversations and so we've been here almost three hours and we have had a wonderful conversations that kind of things that we as legislators and industry people and educators need to have more often so we've had two really great of events here this afternoon and I really appreciate everybody being here I appreciate the industry folks being here and doctor Reagan's you have a tremendous model and again I think for for many of us we have pushed pushed pushed workforce education I don't know that we actually knew what that ought to look like we just knew we weren't doing it and but as is Dr Regan says we've just got to find a way to make sure that when our students leave school they have something at the end of the day that they can go off to whether it's to the work force the military college whatever it is but that they have the skills and we lose so many kids simply because many times they just don't fit in that box and we really need and then they get to the adults and what do we do with the adults we have to make sure that we have some mechanism out there as we have heard earlier with our I. T. stuff but also with our with the construction there are plenty of opportunities for people to have really well paying positions they can take care of themselves and their families and have a career so I appreciate everybody being here today David I'm sorry did ask you earlier if you have anything to say but that's not unusual for me. Senator if I might I would just say that. the opportunity to work with this industry some of the finest people I've ever worked with it's a great industry. Well thank you senator I just want to I've just put it.