Education- Senate and House

I call this meeting to order. So happy that everyone's here today thank you for coming large attendance crowd is great. Means we'll have less questions today is that right. All right so read to the Mr Mr vice chair shall have anything to say today. Nothing all right that we're gonna get started let me find my agenda here for a. Think about it. All right so we'll hear reports on teachers. Teacher a recruiting attention salaries of professional development miss Adrian backing Mr jasmine right. Our our presenters today and we're so happy to see you and if you will just state your name for the record you're welcome to proceed. Good morning my name is Adrian back with the bureau of legislative research and this is jasmine right you're gonna be talking about teachers I'm going to start with teacher recruitment retention that before I get into the report I want to and first it's kind of like you know everything is in the binder so there's any confusion throughout Michigan find everything as we go through so you'll find all the materials today in the April fifth tablets to be the first full tab in your binder you'll see the power point and then the report and that'll be the same order as we go through each report today. And then you also see our next the binder a tracking sheet that's been updated and see where we are in that regard. And. So with that we'll put to get started with recruitment and retention and I'll note here this is one of the reports that's not required in adequacy statute it's been added to the study over the years at the request of the committee is so that's why we have this information for you today. So with that we're gonna fight this in three different sections so many go over some teacher data within the state to get kind of an idea what the landscape looks like in regards to teachers and teacher shortages in preparation that will go over national research and then what's the state is doing an act in that regard to address these issues and then we'll go over relevant survey results from our BLR educator surveys. So with that we'll start with some data. So first I want to go over some teacher student demographic information you'll see and paying Arkansas teachers in blue Arkansas students and research shows that having teachers of color boost the academic performance of all students expressly those students of color you'll note here does have some gaps here in terms of student and teacher representation across the state. So the next section of data is going to go over some workforce information that comes from the Division and before I get into that I want to provide a few definitions to help explain some of the terminology we're going to cover I will read each of these to you but many of these are relation to different types of licensure is that might be available to teachers who may not be fully certified yet are still in the process of proof seating certain parts of their as certification for certain positions. So I'll linger if you on these a little bit you'll see these broken out additional ways as a go throughout the report. And then I want to explain the work for stability and accidents is a calculation done by the Division simply it down to just to protect the strength or the stability of the school or district's faculty and it relies on many of these pieces of data to to make that calculation so essentially the higher the number the stronger the stability stronger they are the more stable they are and then isn't attrition as an ex that's the teacher turnover rate. So without we'll get into what those numbers look like so this is showing for the past five years. The total number of teachers has been increasing during that time frame as well as a percentage of teachers with a bachelor's degree in those with a master's degree. An average two years a teacher experiences also decreased a bit in the percent of an experienced teachers these are those in their first three years of teaching and that has nearly doubled in twenty twenty one from the previous year. The percentage of teachers who are completely certified that number has dropped as well as well as a percentage of teachers with emergency or provisional credentials so these are those are still kind of there are certain parts of the certification that are not quite finished so that number is relatively small less than one percent and twenty twenty one. The percentage teachers or teaching out of field these are those who at their teaching outside of their start their licensure essentially. That has decreased over the last few years. And the number of emergency teaching permits and approved long term substitute those are those who are taking the place of contracted teachers with more than thirty consecutive days that has been decreasing as well. Increasing I'm I apologize creasing. And then finally the attrition rate you'll see that jumped a little bit and twenty twenty one from eighteen to twenty one percent and then they work for stability and acts that fell in twenty twenty one read have been increasing just a bit up until twenty twenty so then the higher the number the more strong the more stable the faculty. And with that I'm gonna go over a minute you some of the same breakdowns we used to shows and spending patterns and to highlight some of this state and the full set can be found in your report just wanna highlight of some of these. And we'll start with average years of teacher experience so you'll see that districts teachers in traditional districts they have three times greater average years of teaching experience. And that years that number has decreased with higher concentrations of minority students. And then for districts licensee that increases that yours of teaching experience increases that districts get Becker and then I'm gonna pause hearing go kinda reminds with our successful schools Arkan these are the ones identified by the are using a regression formulas that Julie explained yesterday were taking into account multiple different factors like the student demographics and showing who's performing better than expected essentially so these are those successful schools here and we'll see that teachers in those schools had more years of teaching experience. You will what we don't questions. You can punch a button will get to you a little bit. So there is a section in your binder if you look in the very first page of the table of contents of the methodology report and it provides more details on how that regression formulas determined it's the same one APA the previous consultant provided they use to determine their version or successful school so we try to replicate that is in a state similar ways after the methodology report the full formula in your binder. I think that is at have. We think it's and have five the very back of your binder. So moving on to the percentage of teachers who are completely certified. So we see that the teachers in traditional districts they had more these districts had on average more teachers who are completely certified. And that percentage decreases with higher concentrations of poverty and minority still. And then looking at district size schools in the smallest districts have the smallest percentage of completely certified teachers. Moving to the percentage and I'll and then successful schools had just a few more as well in other schools. And the percentage of an experienced teachers so we see that charters had double to percentage of these teachers. And the percentage increases with higher concentrations of both poverty and minority students. And then looking at district size so schools in the smallest districts had twice as many and experienced teachers than those in the largest districts. In successful schools also had fewer and experienced teachers. The percentage of out of field teachers so districts had a higher percentage of these rural schools also had a higher percentage. And it decreased with concentrations are higher concentrations of minority students. Then looking at district size so schools in the smallest districts have three times as many out of field teachers. And a successful schools had just a few less as well. The looking at the attrition rate so charters had a higher rate of teacher attrition. And that rate increase with higher pa concentrations of both poverty and minority students. We at district size so schools in the smallest districts had doubled their contrition Raines. You know that the pop the LAR the to the largest districts and successful schools also had a lower rate of teacher attrition. And then finally the workforce stability index again higher the number the stronger more stable so districts had a higher index number and that number decreased with concentrations of higher concentrations of both poverty and minority students. With where the district's size of that number decreased as districts got that at districts got smaller. And successful schools had a higher index number. So switching gears a little bit I want to look at some as results from R. BLR educator survey so one of our surveys we surveyed a sample of teachers statewide in our mind a full copy of a survey results are found in your binder as well. But in that survey we see asked teachers when they were planning on retiring you can see here that thirty one percent were not a guard hiring eleven to twenty years with another thirty percent noting that they would retire in one to ten. And then in that same survey we asked teachers how long they were planning on staying in teaching. So of those thirty three percent responded that they would stay as long as they're able to another twenty nine percent noting that they would stay until they are eligible for retirement benefits. So looking at some data regarding teacher shortages in this state is comes from the Division so these are the twenty twenty one academic shortage areas within the state and I'm not here to special education is the amount list consistently since two thousand and eight. And regards to terms of educators coming in versus positions that are available so you'll see that. That's broken up by shortage areas and those non shortage areas you'll see that there are fewer teachers available for those notes academic shortage areas as compared to the to the non shortage areas. Looking at educator preparation program enrollment in this state so we do the full list of all of educator preparation programs in appendices a and B. of the teacher recruitment retention report. but this graph shows enrolment broken out by traditional and alternative certification programs which I'll cover in more detail here in just a bit but you'll see that that number has been increasing over the last couple of years this goes up until twenty twenty the most recent data available. And then the next table here the next graph excuse me shows these are those who are completing educator preparation programs in those respective years you see that number is also increasing as well but not quite as much as the enrollment numbers. And of the nearly eighteen hundred program complete or is in twenty twenty sixty one percent were employed in Arkansas public schools and the subsequent twenty twenty one school year. And then finally this is a map showing the geographic teacher shortage areas in this data comes from the division as well so the read as the first priority level as defined as the top twenty five percent of districts employing uncertified teachers orange is the second party level districts for five percent or more recertified in that yellow is the third we're districts with thirty three percent or more teachers ran certified you'll see that. Rather more heavily concentrated their. So that takes us into national research and what the state is doing in these regards program talk about these in four different groups so pathways in licensure financial and monetary programs training and mentoring and working conditions and as all know as we go through the report there can be a few sections that were not going to go too much in detail that's because they're going to be covered in more information with the teacher salary in the PD reports we don't want to replicate any information there. And then this section on working conditions that's going to be found there more information on that is included in your report they're not going to cover that today too much and too much detail today in our presentation but to get started Garza pathways in licensure so research tells us that teachers are two to three times more likely to leave the profession without comprehensive preparation so that includes all the and that includes at student teaching formal feedback and having coursework in student learning. And another element that comes up in the research in terms regards to pathways in licensure is the competition between traditional and alternative certification education programs so alternative programs are often offer have a benefit of they're usually cheaper and have less time needed to complete the programs often are characterized as having little to no clinical training or student teaching that we know that there is some variability there and that they're not all the same but. These are often associated with lower retention rates and studies across these alternative programs show that those with more coursework more student teaching they're gonna have stronger outcomes than those without that component. In some best practices that comes up frequently in the literature regards to dressing pathos and licensure is to include teacher residencies grow your own programs and teacher license reciprocity it will go into those details going to those just a little bit more coming up a more add details found in your report no no the all of these have been shown to have positive results in recruiting and retaining teachers of color. So teacher residencies these are the time frame can vary other typically one year occurring after receiving a bachelor's degree and it's a partnership between school districts and universities in this program are residents would apprentice with a master expert teacher and a high need classrooms while the receiving funding for tuition and living expenses and still taking their related coursework and rate and an education. And typically these programs would require the residents to commit to teaching or for a certain time period in that sponsoring district typically we see three to four years is the more common time frame for that commitment. Grow your own program so these are recruit teacher candidates typically from nontraditional populations such as para professionals or high school students in a typically provide financial support for these individuals to complete their educator license training and it's all also receive other programmatic support like coaching an assistance navigating different credential requirements. And so want to switch over look at what Arkansas is doing in this regard so Arkansas currently has as of twenty twenty one eight different methods of obtaining alternative certification for teaching and more details on that can be found in your report but this is just a list of what those programs include. You'll also find in your reports and information regarding a state residency program that's up coming through daisy that has elements of both the teacher residency model and the grow your own program as well. So looking at financial or monetary program so the cost of teacher preparation and lower teacher salaries can be a significant obstacle for those and wishing to enter the teaching profession at and best practices in regards to addressing that issue include service scholarships loan forgiveness programs so as competitive salaries salaries piece on a ledge aspentech tackle your shortly but we'll talk about the scholarships and local goodness programs here. The feeling so research shows that these are the five common elements of effective versions of service scholarships and loan forgiveness programs so they need to recruit academically strong well prepared and committed candidates provide substance substantial financial assistance Harket high need areas. Provide reasonable financial consequences so and that one common form and that is a penalty so if that that resident doesn't fill fill their teaching commitment that district they're responsible covering for and. Hang the interest on that loan that they got forgiven. And then be administratively manageable so make it easy to navigate for the teachers for the schools as well as the universities. So Arkansas is doing in this regard we have several different financial incentive programs I'll go over briefly. So first we have the national board for professional teaching standards this is a annual bonus provided in the amount of twenty five hundred or five thousand dollars. At up to five years in this depends on whether a teacher is in a lower high poverty school. And approximately twenty two hundred teachers receive that benefit and twenty twenty one for a total of fifteen point five million dollars statewide. Then we have the high priority district recruitment and retention so program so this is another bonus provided the amount of three to five thousand dollars and this is provided to newly hired teachers in high priority districts. So nine hundred and eighty first receive this benefit and twenty twenty one for a total of just over two million dollars statewide. Then we have the Arkansas geographical critical needs minority teacher scholarship provides up to fifteen hundred dollars per year to minority individuals who express an intention to teach and geographic shortage area. Fifty eight teachers receive that and twenty twenty one for a total of just over fifty eight thousand dollars statewide. Then we have the nontraditional licensor grants this is the amount provided active thousand dollars per year to non traditionally licensed individuals who teaching geographic or shortage subject areas the fourteen teachers receive that in twenty twenty one for a total of just over nine thousand dollars statewide. Then we have this state teacher education program or step this is a loan forgiveness program that provide up to four thousand dollars per year directly to the lender and this is for current educators teaching a subject or geographical shortage area. Three hundred and thirty four teachers receive this benefit twenty twenty one for a total of just over one million dollars statewide. Then finally we have the teacher opportunity program so this is another loan forgiveness program that provides up to three thousand dollars annually directly to the applicant this is for teachers administrators wishing to continue their education. Eight hundred and fifty nine teachers receive that and twenty twenty one for a total of one point seven million dollars statewide. So switching back to the research and we can talk about training and mentoring so research shows us that stronger training and mentoring for new teachers help support strong ginger retention one of the early years for teachers are forming a but they can be difficult so key elements are identified through research what effective and high quality induction programs include having a mentor from the same field having common planning time in teachers who teach the same subject having regularly scheduled collaboration with others as well as having an external network of teachers to work with. And then we have terms what Arkansas is doing so we have our professional development requirements and our teacher excellence and support systems on this task what those are going to be covered in our upcoming PD report shortly after this one I'm so we'll save that information for that presentations you don't hear it twice and before I wrap up the research section here I want to add that something that came up consistently in the research and that was that no one solution was going to solve the teacher shortage it was a combination of all of them that would be proved to be more effective. So that brings us to some survey results and these came from our educator service we surveyed principals as well as teachers as I noted earlier and in that survey I'll note here that some of these risks questions they were able to select more than one response you'll see that they don't always total one hundred percent and that's the reason why. But we ask principles with their top top teacher recruitment challenges were so these are the top five the full list is found in your report. So the number one response was difficulty offering competitive salaries that was seventy percent of principles noting that followed by community quality of life in the scarcity of appropriate licensed teachers. And then moving on what teachers so we ask teachers what their reasons for for teaching at their current school you'll see the school leadership was the primary reason was seventy three percent of teachers selecting that and that's reflected in national research in this on this topic so um as well as in our survey responses that we found a successful school so research shows that school leadership is a really important factor for teachers in water choosing our schools and staying at their schools that they have a supportive teacher sitting. And Administration I guess in Antani in the classroom and I was reflected in our conversations with the successful schools that we interview that was a very common thing that we heard from from teachers there. So we also up in the survey teachers first thirty four percent noted that they were not currently working in a high poverty or rural communities we asked those teachers what conditions they would need to relocate one of those communities still say there is no overwhelming response twenty three percent are that there were no conditions in which they would relocate for. Another twenty two percent not in a wooded higher salary to do so. And then we also terms of retentions we ask principles with their teacher retention challenges were these of those top five so stress and workload for teachers was a number one respond to seventy five percent of principles followed again by offering competitive salaries and community quality of life. And then in the survey twenty percent of teachers report that they were considering leaving the profession we asked those teachers what their reasons were for that these are the top five you'll see stimulate that stress and workload where they're number one response as well as seventy five percent of teachers. Followed by lack of respect for the profession and higher paying. And then finally a twenty percent of the twenty percent reported that they were considering transferring to another school or another district we ask them what their reasoning for that was you'll see that sixty one percent or higher pay followed by lack of student accountability and again that stress and workload came up again. And with that I will take any questions. Thank you. A little statement here just before you started so it's always been a policy in mind not to let non members ask questions they're added because we adequacy hearings because adequacy committee is the one that makes all the decisions on these or Senate chairs were more lenient on that will allow it today but I want to tell you you better stay on the subject that we're talking about today we got the weeds really bad yesterday so we don't want to get off into if you have a question that relates to any of this it doesn't deal with adequacy. Ask them you know that they've got all the answers you can you can talk to bill are and they'll get those questions for you we're trying to study adequacy we're trying to figure this out so we don't want to get in the weeds but I will allow it today and I have in the past some except for senator Hammer I don't let him call so. Just kidding but but just just please try to keep it in the realm of what we're dealing with I will ask that we've got a lot of work to do and try to get this done in November and we will finish up probably the still still September so we've got a lot of work to do bill and with that Representative Annette. The right set right. Well it's one of the older it's your it's your Mike this lit up. Okay I'm sorry which are one. Sorry I look like the side. Good morning Mister chair and thank you so very much for allowing me the opportunity and I would just like to thank the members of B. L. R. for this information is very good information to have it Mr I have a question that has a couple of parts to it so is that okay it is the longest I'm satisfied as long as it deals what we're talking yes so my question I wrote it out so I can stated succinctly. Have your adverse findings found their way into a an improvement plan. That's the first part and then the next part to the big into a improvement plan to correct these fine these adverse findings and then the next part of that is if so what is that plan call and then the final question is who has the responsibility responsibility for progress monitoring of that plan. Thank you for the question so I'm going to try to understand the question correctly so when you say they're improvement plan are you referring to all schools and what all schools and districts are doing to address are certain ones that. Or. Give a specific. Right so in terms of the improved I don't think there's one specific improvement plan some of there are many methods of that the state has it and what research shows work well so those the residencies a grow your own the mentoring you know those things we covered The state has multiple ways as I noted a few of those so the teacher residency and. The. That might be a question that does he may want to elaborate on further if there's any specific plans that I'm not aware of so I miss it terrified me I'm just trying to determine sold to me seems like the you're reporting out the information that you received from the department of education is that I mean they they have a lot of readily available information I'm sorry to me then that the department would have the responsibility of addressing these things so I guess the question is are you aware of a public plan that you've assisted the department with in order to address these findings that you have here so in order to make improvement and to obtain the of the status that we would like to get to seems like to me there has to be some type of plan in order to address these findings and then find their way into a document and then someone should be responsible for monitoring to see how the proof of the progress is being made with respect to the findings within your report your report has found a number of things reference Springer the bureau does not come up with findings that's what we do here so we're we're risk responsible for doing that okay your just does a reports that's all they do okay so what they're what they presented to us is just reporting okay all right. So that we may have a nother wrist if you wanted I'm happy to reach out to does he to see if they have any information on some of that question you would like thank you I would I would be interested in the. Certainly. Thank you Mrs here my question has to do with the H. the prep programs that we have do we know anything any have any research about any qualitative differences in the efficacy of these programs. At because it seems. We keep adding programs but I I don't I haven't seen research is as this one works this is a good one or this one is an excellent one adjust the and but we tend to say well it just depends on where you all are J. O. anything about the. See I so I can doesn't may want to elaborate but I know that they have a report that looks at advocate or preparation which I pulled some information from and they have more details about educator preparation programs in the report I think it's one of the last appendices there a couple tables that show the preparation programs and one of those is broken out by some accreditation measure they have and some other measures on whether they're meeting and there's four different measures to Reese let me check and see what those are they're collecting some of that data but they may well labaran case I'm missing anything on that because I don't have anything further in terms of the history of those those programs so let me I can point you to. The table in the report I'm so if index B. R. twenty nine in the report there are some based on I think. Their responses provided a to the programs addressing how they're following and meeting geographic areas academic shortage areas increasing the number of minority teachers increasing school and community partnerships and marketing effectiveness of meeting the changes requirements for science of reading it each room educator preparation program the table shows whether they're meeting or not meeting or if they're exceeding that measure but that's what. Mr here if if I want to know from the from the Division is it appropriate for them to respond now whether or not they know about anything regarding the efficacy of these preparation programs we have eight different ones or is that something I need to pursue in a different manner. I'm asking you if it's if okay. So are you asking if you want to see if they are if they would come to the table this is the proper proper thing for them to do at this point. at to respond to that question thank you. Carly Senator sini as the State Commissioner of educator fictive Nissen licensure and we have started a journey of wanting to look past use the national accreditations for our educator preparation programs and so we have formed a task force and most states are doing this and going through this process so that we would have our own state review of all of our educator prep programs whether they are traditional or the nontraditional route so that we can give you better information and really help support. Our higher ed institutions as well as our nontraditional route programs so that we can have our high quality effective teachers day one ready and that's our focus and we call it day one ready teachers because we on now you can go through a program at that first day that you're in the classroom it's a little bit different so we hope that we're going through this journey right now and and we have met several times were looking at metrics that we are going to identify to help. S. better support by looking at those things that make a high quality program. It seems the stakes are so high and I'm I'm emphasizing it seems. It would make sense to have an outside. objective person do that take a look at what's happening rather than looking at ourselves this makes sense yes ma'am we have someone facilitating it T. and T. P. The New teacher project they are facilitators through this process what does it mean to facilitate rather than the value wait because I'm talking about and evaluation of what we're. Valuation yes and current late Cape is the outside evaluator their national accreditation that we currently use in the state and at. That's why we want to look toward a more as the same extent storm based on what our needs are in Arkansas that we can always take what you say and look what we can do. Mister chair I want to come back to this question because I know there are others so would you just leave me in the queue because I don't want to just take up all the time right now on this question unless you want me to pursue what I want to know I'm willing to just get back in. Either way if you don't get all the data I'm sure should be glad to get really want to get it all into days of the month back to back and okay thank you senator Clark record you know okay we'll. Representative got free. Thank you Mr thank you so much I I noticed and and of this connection or correlation between the larger districts and better retention do you know any more about that I mean that you saw you we had some other information about higher salary and we see that larger districts often have a higher salary but I also wonder too if it is salary or if it is instead or in addition better support for teachers if they have you know better infrastructure for kind of welcoming and and supporting teachers as they enter the district or if it's just a generally better teaching experience at these larger districts you know anymore about the Y. or can we just kind of make assumptions based on the other day he shared with us. So I don't know that we can really answer the why to that you know. Johnny anecdotally by could say anything to that but I'm not sure if I have enough to. X. definitively say why or why not those the better have hired better numbers the card thank you for state takes a share. Thank you Mr chair I have I have a couple of questions I'm on the page eight the slide that says teacher timing a teacher time in. And teaching them that can't get it out this morning can you tell me when that survey was done is that a recent survey and is is this survey it I think it says retiring within a certain time one to ten years eleven to twenty. Does this correlate like other states are seeing also. And so that came from our twenty twenty one service that was after the twenty one school year I don't I don't have the data to show nationally if that compares back and certainly provide that for you to show that comparison yeah I think that's kind of important if we know that if we have teachers dropping out well before other states have teachers dropping out that maybe we can figure out what that is causing that domino effect does that make sense but we need to receive if it's happening in other states the same way and then my next question is on the very next page it's the teacher shortage and it gives you the different subject matters in which we have a shortage and I assume this is just for our state also hosts or other states having shortages in the same exact areas and if they're not what did they do to bridge that were there not having those shortages in the same subject subject matters sure so I know off hand special occasions commonly and and use different nationally I don't know specifically which ones I imagine other prepared and other shortages across the country I don't know exactly which ones I can certainly get that for just a better comparison of how other states or yeah I would be interested in knowing if if the other states are having the same subject matters be shortages sure and if not then what did they do. To help bridge that were we don't have that maybe we can figure out some way to Bridget were we don't have those same shortages if another state is already found that the that area and then I would like to know if you have sorry Mister chair this will be it Do you have a list of the schools that did that on that page fourteen a I was trying to think because I had two or three of them listed that I wanted the list from a page thirteen and fourteen the financial and monetary programs we have a list of the schools it says approximately two thousand or twenty two hundred teachers used the first one which is the property of Arkansas's efforts. I guess this twenty five hundred dollar annual bonus in low poverty for five years and then the next one was the one that was three thousand to five thousand for new hires can you tell me give me a list of the schools that actually took advantage of the S. and if so if you go back to the and the reason I'm asking that question because if you go to ten and Page ten and you see the map that you also to as the orange red and yellow if none of those areas where using the S. I would like to know why they're not using this as a bonus incentive to get people to come there and teach does that make sense what I'm asking I think that some clear is it does start the national board certification yet when reference yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah okay I know that I am I can certainly provide you the districts yeah I add that have that that I can't and. This might be a better question for does he but I know that. Sometimes I think it's teacher initiated a lot of work to ask to go for going there far okay I have to do that so I'm not sure exactly how the interaction with the school or the district okay thank you to districts and where those are coming from thank you thank you Mr. President McKenzie. Thank you Mr chair On the ons that the bonus the financial programs we've got going here All right is that funded the matrix is that part of foundation funding no it's not. Where is that coming from is it. That might be a better question for Katie but I think there's multiple sources that that comes from inside. Yeah I'm not sure exactly there's I think there's a variety but I can speak to right now that I can get that for you but okay that's good and then the question isn't if you know the answer to this is it just automatic or these discretionary or is it if you're in a in a high risk high need area or something and then you get this bonus or is there something that's also tied to performance or any other assessment besides just. Do you know is a discretionary are these different financial bonus program so I know that this one. There's a lot of I think that I don't know if performance is the right word but there's a lot of work that the teachers have to do to meet the certification I think there's some coursework I think involved in that so that. At the related to performance otherwise I'm not really sure that there is a performance measure for those that I know sometimes they depend on available funds. Okay all right thank you and you have to give that information on the funding and just anymore details I appreciate it absolutely thank you. I have a question for you know all in all the questions that we asked the keep up with everyone of those. We did just make sure can you compile those into a folder so when we start studying our our final results we could research what shall come up with because I think everybody hears had questions and we like to probably review it because I the once the and just asking a lot probably didn't catch every bit of that and somebody that you're probably didn't either so away we go through those we could fall back to those questions and answers and see if we missed something so I appreciate have a full list of that we can definitely provide and also what I just had a question on the when we were looking at the Average years of teachers I would years of teaching experience certified all those things you were talking about and it's it's a whole group there that there was not a big variation in any of those from the high to the low it was just small percentages of of variation so is that what I'm seeing on talk on your chart such as average years of teacher experience from a district to the from the poverty to the minority was like a like one percent. Is that correct some of them are some of them have or small proportions in some of them are arson. What are you going you're going to the that's not really what I was talking about but but some of the you go from a from behind from a distributor right there so from poverty is ten six down to minority highest is nine three so it's not sure does do not very much even though you're urban rule or just right at the same amount. So some of those were not really that far off we're trying to be sure to close on it but we do have some of those that that are so okay that's all I have let's go to representative Smith. Your own. You will not you. It was. I was Senator Hammer is that you is that yours is all yes Sir okay we'll that showed up to be representative Smith. Thank you Mr on page seventeen of our hand out we're talking about the teacher retention and seventy five percent. Is identified as stress and workload. Do you identify what those contributors are such as is the building management is to covid the unique time we're in of covid maybe regulations you come down from the Department that our federal government you break it out as to what contributed to that. And so we looked at that there is a lot of extra comments from teachers at a lab right on that and there was a wide variety and there were general in a co they definitely played a factor in a some of that for sure I think. And. Trending I'm looking back to that that the categories there are several and generally just the work load into in general was seven and it had too many responsibilities on our plate and that this contributed to overall stress and I think there are sometimes behavioral issues or issues with students that sometimes played a role in that But I think there is those are kind of the bigger ones that come to mind right now but I can certainly get you a more detailed break out of this kind of what some of those underlying factors where okay the B. great and everyone follows Mr. The the connection between the stress load and how much of a salary it would take to compensate for the stress load there under did you did you to terminate thing was there anything in the in the research you did that would identify what's the what's the magic number salary wise to compensate for the stress load. That's you know but I think there's no way that they Mr. That's not their job. A representative but. Thank you Mr. but my question is just the first part is kinda request for more data Mr chairman always gets me at mad at me about that but looking at the programs the the incentive program to different ones I'm just roughly Matthew eyes it's about twenty million dollars total that goes in all those programs together so the question I have is this. What percentage of teachers actually received some part of that bonus. Now is that like five percent of the teachers are receiving it all across the state is that represents so it and you probably don't have that information here for you but if you'll just get that to Matt I'd be curious to see what that is then the second question is related to that is then the people that receive it is are are those. Figures. When you guys report to us there's the salary teacher salaries are those numbers included that numbers of your receiving this incentive for I forget what so the next sentence or but every stating that and Senate Zacks Inc is that included in the overall calculations as far as salaries were being compared to other states that makes sense I think so so are the incentives being incorporated announces looking at teacher salaries right I know it is not entitled to if you'll get back to me on the other percent mark of. Quick question is up on page seventeen. If there the it's curious and and that is installation the the difference is between the order the. On page eighteen the survey results because the number one issue on page seventeen is number three. And they look like they're kind of the same thing looking at the kind of the same thing so number one is number three on page eighteen and number three on page seventeen is now number three or number one skews me and other patients like they all shifted around look at eighteen compared to and I might be missing something there but it looks like the survey that's on eighteen or seventeen when you have out there that look the one on eighteen it looks like the results come them changed in order to. I'm sorry. On page eighteen the survey results teacher retentions listed And I'm trying to think what that is this. So when I know we have results from both principles and from teachers that is two different groups being now the teachers and appraisals and be someone online there are some similarities but they were two different groups that had like what it is welcome Mr. Go back to the polls seventeen the survey teacher retention. Right there okay. That teachers and that's principles. Now with the teachers thanks everyone are not very next slide. If you look the the reasons are in different water there and and that slide versus the previous slide so my question is are these. Coming from the appear to be coming. Well these are the. Question so this was a question asked to a small I think it was twenty percent of teachers who were noted that they were interested in either a transferring to another school or another district these are the reasons why they wanted to leave that school or that district so this is a separate question from wanting to leave the profession entirely time. There was a separate group of teachers that noted there really no profession okay all right well thank you if you get back into the thing. If you look in the Page twenty four twenty five the of right behind that it'll show a whole lot more that representative back on actually more more stuff than actually have on that slide if it might help you with some of those answers so I don't know if you look on the just on by what they have to be. A bill so anything that they're showing up there is going to be behind that on some of the pages will have a whole lot more information than what they're actually they're doing a condensed version when they do that so represent eleven. Thank you Mr chair Adrian gore back to page nine the slide on teacher shortages. Or you for a list of the different subjects matter. Do you have additional data on that that can be shared on just how many we're talking about there being how how many physics teachers are we short in the state of Arkansas how many French teachers are we short. I know that not does he has a educator preparation purport I'm trying to think if that level details in there but if not I can certainly check with that I'd like to be very interesting to serve what you know we're we're we lacking in being able to recruit our teachers or physics teachers and your does it go all the way back to. You're the preparation during their time in higher ed is or something that we're not doing their it's leading them in that pathway and then if if it is you for getting them and they're leaving quit then why change if you could get that information to us of the great thank you thank you Mr. Represent speaks your first represent all. Thank you Mr chair. Back to that something that does senator Hammer was talking about on page seventeen. Where it's a lack of respect and all of that we know there's a big discipline problems in the schools but my concern is is this middle school is as high school. Who are you all. Surely not grades will. Well the survey with the survey a teacher to sample of teachers with surveyed included all teachers from all grade levels and types of schools so districts charters elementary middle junior high school there's a cemex of all of those included in that response okay thank you Mr chair like to ask you I know that's a question I've had from Senate ever since I've been on here is there not something we could look at all the paper work because that's something that I've been approached about that we could not do away with analysts there's so much that is very important but is there some things that this paper work that these teachers are having to fill out day after day is that we could not help them with this load. Representante that's a question for the ADA and they're gonna come up here in a minute and we'll talk to them okay part of it I'm sorry eighty. They had a person that role but they're gonna come up and answer a few questions just a minute we'll just ask that okay thank you a reserve all. One you really cut her deep you called a representative Vaught my goodness such high standards and you call representatives fought you know. Anyway sorry now the miss. So ever Page eight I will go back to that survey I ask about to begin with the teacher timing was that done pre covid. Our during covid. That was the to the we conducted a survey and for the twenty twenty one starts service school year so that was supposed in kind of also middle of covid yes I'm wonderin I'm if we did that again what those numbers change now that were you know much on a higher plane feel than what we were whenever this survey was given do you think any of those numbers would change. I'm I wouldn't be able to answer that I can't I would be I would know what that response I'm sorry thank you. Are you still are you still own reserve all are you to yes. She's going to get me the numbers okay covid thank you I will move on Senator Elliot. Thank you Mr chair For the for the school districts That are part of the do one well school district that's probably not the right language were that where there are. For all the reasons that they are doing well. It seems to me and I'm asking you to just help me see if I'm synthesizing this correctly it seems to me for those reasons that they are doing well they seemed obviously miss and in so many ways and those districts that are not doing well I would say that seem to make sense parallel the. Where there were there any instances and school districts That are doing well who did not state are one of the reasons that they remain there is leadership if you can't to set out right now you can do it later because what I'm trying to figure out as people said one of the reasons are they are staying in their schools is leadership. If you're in a school that is not doing well some of those folks said that was one of one of their issues but it seemed like it wasn't. The biggest issue are might be getting it mixed up with that smaller group you're talking about. I'm wondering to what extent teachers are deciding they are leaving a district Because of leadership. And that might be impacted by all of the other things that are not true in that district that are true and the others to keep them there. If you can figure out a way to help me see answer that question it doesn't have to be now because I I kind of have this feeling that if. I don't want to be unfair to principles and in this regard and leaders because I have a feeling that if all of these other things are not true somebody gets blamed for that and they maybe should not be blamed and it might help us look differently at districts who are losing leaders because we've not taking care of the other issues that are taken care of in the districts where teachers love their leaders. I'm I just like to have a conversation with the different maybe some other time as that because I think that's really important as we keep losing leaders and somebody is going to be blamed when all the other things and not here so I'm just I could just can get with with you about that down the road and this year the the other question I had I I did want to ask a follow up question to not miss a Saraceni because that's where I stopped and that's not and that's all I have. You like your senate saying it is time yes please okay somewhat with bring her up in in secretary TS you Basel's have this way also. And I discover my jaw we still have two more full presentations to here today. So if you want to get out of here early I walk in the door something lately even though we get done so. Please state your name for the record again and certainly the eligible jockey partnered Education. Currently servicing the Department of it certainly trial. All I I am looking at the national research and and Arkansas efforts for recruitment and and retention and I when you said it I think is Saraceni yes that you could perhaps look at. Some national our research made maybe that might have been Adrian. But do you know whether or not there is national research either forget about Arkansas right now about whether or not these alternative programs and to what extent even our traditional programs are are working To prepare teachers what we know about that I know a lot more about the traditional than I did about the alternatives and that's mainly my interest. Well again that's what we're wanting to do a state review so that we can look at all our programs there's not a lot of nationally I had trillions the only thing we can tell you is looking at at praxis rates in CT Q. has a lot of reports out for traditional and nontraditional verses looking at the pass rates for the assessment teacher assessment also looking at enrollment. Verses complainers and at if you would like I can get some of that together for you that's national yes yes yes I'm not because I know you said you didn't have the Arkansas data and it seems that we keep adding ways to become certified in some way which is is is a bit concerning not knowing exactly you know what we're getting Is it of any to what extent I guess is a concern that it it seems to me that for the schools that are high minority school districts and those that are in high poverty areas in real no matter who they are that. It's overstating a thing to say that that's part of the experiment but it just seems they keep getting over and over what we the people who are not The people that are not certified or highly qualified I don't I don't mean to be in charge of about this but I just noticed in those schools that are doing well they're the ones who don't keep getting different kind of teachers over now and am I correct about that it seems that we keep having to do the alternatives in places where it seems to me there is not a sensibility for this teaching force that we have in the school districts that we keep reward that I'm doing well. Senator yes that is exactly what's happening and I think it's there are multiple factors I think one of the factors is that as a state we have looked at short term bandaid approaches to meeting that need over the last decade or so You know We had to teach for America that was many of these districts the to which you referred dependent on teach for America to come in and fill those slots it was effective for awhile now we have fewer than ten teach for America placements it was not a long term solution the long term solution is what we are attempting to do with our Arkansas teacher residency model we are going in it to the middle schools even to promote teaching as a viable career at a fulfilling career and helping change the narrative with a long term approach the problem is it's going to take a few years for us to get that pipeline regenerated of we have expanded the number of educators rising. The. Programs around the state as a matter fact Karlie is here with us today in missing a big event to educators rising event at UCLA where Dr Pfeffer is where of these groups from all over the state are or are there put Senator it's it's going to take us some time we have over four hundred of. All four hundred okay four hundred students in person at UCLA okay that's I have not gotten their report but we have over a thousand I think now there are members of educators rising We also have a problem with some of the and I'm just gonna tell you because Mister chair you're the yellow or the chair's changed but of chair Cozart had mentioned Some of the research that you all or or needing to do as far as the adequacy of responsibility that you have At twelve forty all right I'm gonna you didn't ask but I'm going to go there because you'll need to know this. ACT twelve forty with this noble intentions we have seen that become I'm just gonna say it away for districts to avoid a citation for not having of their meeting their standards for accreditation when we uh the come of the state board and ask for twelve forty waiver to place someone in that is not certified. I know this is a shocking to to some of you have been watching this for a while but it is a it's a growing concern for the department in that it especially in these districts of the data that we a large presented to you those are the districts where that seems to be more common and it's a struggle and we we believe the solution is what we're doing with the the teacher residency model because to that model I think we presented to this committee before of we have a pathway develops that young people can enter the teaching profession get a head start on actual classroom experience and and get a four year degree with a full certification at. Zero to minimal cost to them. That's one of the barriers that we and to. These reports have shown us for year after year after biennium after by any and so that's how we are responding to try to meet those needs but it's going to take this law and I I today I did I do not I want to be really clear about this blame the department of education for the condition that we're in as it is not just a department of education issue and the twenty years I've been down here one thing I have learned and and over and over and over again is there are no short cuts to this and we we keep wanting to come here and give us an answer that it is not going to be answered by just a department of education and I and I know that everybody does nobody wants to be a failure everybody's doing what they can do but I noticed that in these districts that the ones that are doing well folks said there was no reason it is clear that there is no reason I'm gonna move from this district to one of these other districts to be helpful because of a number of things and I just think at some point we have to buckle down and and and not pretend for instance you can't pay somebody unaff- money to create more time if we don't change policies to create time for teachers to have time to teach time to prepare time to do the work well twenty five thousand dollars more a month is not going to change that so I applaud what you are doing but you know I I just I've seen it and we've tried and we tried and tried and at some point we're going to do what other folks to buckle down and do everything we can to help make teaching the profession that we respect and that we recognize you can't do it and have a family members and they have everything else to do at some point I think we oughta it's not the right of myself I can I can get it put in the report Mister chair we need to start saying this because it cannot be. Resolved that the Department education when people will tell you I live here it's a place that has what I need to have a decent life there is no way I am going to move anywhere else no matter what you pay me and that's what we're facing. Thank you thank you for your response I appreciate your yeah whatever may I say one thing and we do have a campaign going right now to each Arkansas if you haven't visited our new website W. W. dot teach Arkansas dot org we have a campaign going and we are picking up phone calls and we have my office of recruitment and retention has just received lots of inquire res and the websites based on a high school student and they're actually getting to the top two career catches if you're just a two or four year they're talking two career catches at if you're a career changer you're talking to an advisor in recruitment and retention on your pathway to be a teacher and also maybe school employees you know we're gonna have to time turnover those sounds because we may have some GM's in our schools that we haven't thought about that can be those great teachers and then also current teachers at looking at what are some career advancement for myself through the national board certification and other avenues master in late teacher so we are I hope you've seen some of our commercials that are out I have actually and then we are really excited about that yeah I have and that's why I say I want to applaud you what I worry about once we get them in place they're going to be looking to go right to the school districts right now up it's it's it's to read. Since thank you thank you Mr. Reverses speaks. Thank you Mr chair. Secretary. You remember I sat down with you to when I first came all at it education and that was one of the things I ask because you had a letter from the same lady that I did there Mountain Home wanting to know she said their biggest job is just all the paperwork thank you it's so hard for them to teach because of the paper work that they have and and I'm very curious because we still haven't done anything on that is there some things I know federal government has a lot that that we can't touch but is there some things that we could take away from them to help them with that load. The represents peaks are special lead you down specifically is done a lot of work in reducing the the paperwork an audit I say auditing as small a audit not a big on it but auditing Justin in inspecting what is has been required in over the years eliminated or condensed some of those things it's still up it's still a challenge and we're trying to automate as much as as we can and and streamlined so that there's not data being required from different places within the district that would require either district or secretary or some other administrator to do that that's something we're ongoing evaluating but something that I've been trying to get for seven years and and it's almost we're almost there. we have a group that has is proposing what I call a plate study and we always talk about all the things that are on teachers plates. And I've been trying to find an outside group to come in and help us determine one what all the things are on the plates and to who put him there because as we go through we find out that many things are or attributed to the state either the Department of the legislature and when we dig a little deeper we find out now we we didn't require that it was just something that's been there from tradition or something that's you know some legacy thing or something that a a does a district started a few years ago and and in changes of administration they never stopped doing so I'm hoping that that will give us some clear answers but I've I've I've asked several national groups in the over the last seven seven years to say Hey can you come in and do this and they say nobody's ever asked us for this before we don't know we would know where to start we finally found someone that is so we're we'll hopefully we'll have something in the coming months to be able to present to you that if it's legislation if it's something that statutory rules rags whatever that could we can eliminate some of that will will be bringing that to you it sounds correct. May I ask another question. Okay. I believe you are with the certifying of the teachers is that correct. Well I'm right now working with the lady that had worked and I don't know what this is all the certification is but it's sounds like that and course sometimes the things that we get is not exactly the way it it is but. She is she's been she taught here in Arkansas left went to Washington to help her folks now she's back and she told me she said all the paper work that she's having to go through to get re certified is there some things that we can help with that are. Is are they necessary is my I guess my question. I know we have our background checks and we are trying to streamline it is much as we can and have it online so there's not as much physical paper that things can be done but I'm sure. Possibly it could be that hurts since her license laughs when she went on to Washington and it's just having to do just that thirty six hours of professional development to bring it back at two current status and but please tell her to reach out to me or leased or sini and we will get on that to see what we can do I would like to talk to you when this is over okay thank you thank you Mister chair Mister just on that Mr Seigner team of done a great job working with DHS to streamline that that process for background checks at something we ran into with COVID is that people who want to come in as a substitute It was taking too long a and and it by the time. Yeah we we got through the process the need for the substitute that district might've been over because the quarantines and everything it ended. that's something they've done a really good job on trying to streamline that automate and and create electronic payment options for folks that want to do that and again DHS secretary glass being her team of been very great to work with us and we use some of our code set aside funds to help foster that process so you should see some improvements in that in very soon. In this chair of the questions that representatives we're going I think had asked she's next to us is next okay represent Baltz on right now and then okay purposes for thank you Mr chair so senator start your nice carried legislation that would strengthen the district's recruitment and retention plans have we had plans turned in that shows what districts are going to do to better recruit and retain teachers yes that's actually how I was going to respond with that information so thank you for asking that question because it fits with representative Springer's question of your past ACT six forty six in two thousand one of if you were a member of the previously the requirement for districts was for a minority teacher and administrator recruitment plan if the district had over five percent African American student or minority student population I think we've seen by the census almost every district in the state now I mean you've you've seen that with the of the board's owning would hit that ten percent in across many of the regions of the State of so in response representative Springer's question was about the adverse findings of the bureau I think bill our support from two years ago was very similar in its findings that is something that we looked at the statute and determined that before it was very narrowly focused on minority teacher administrator group and retention we've brought in that and now instead of an annual report an annual plan it's a three year plan. And it is focused on it the focus on minority has not been diminished it actually incorporates that as well but those first reports are due August first of this year. Are those plans and so it as far as monitoring of that they will be submitted to us they will be posted on the district websites and that is something that we will be monitoring with them over that three year period why did we go three years. When you're planning year to year to year you rarely have time for any plan to take effect you have to look to see what you know you need to do to to reach out either out of state or with our H. B. C. use set these and create these relationships with these organizations so that you can get that pipeline filled so that's active in we appreciate you all passing that but we will see it'll be you know after August one before we start seeing the plans and then our equity assistance group and licensure and effectiveness they will be working with districts to Strengthen their plans or or give advice on what those plans should look like but we hope to see to see some good plans later on this summer can I have a follow up Mister chair I'm we talked about teacher shortages a minute ago when the subject matters in which the teacher shortages are in do you see those increasing in those areas and to have you talked to other education departments across the United States to see if they have the same shortfalls and if they do or don't what are they doing to fix their shortfall they they do they do have the same challenges that we have it's it's relative when it comes to salaries because you know higher paying states even other paying higher salaries they still have the challenges you any stem field is highly competitive and more so today than it was a year ago. And certainly more so than five years ago so. Graduates in stem fields have many opportunities that are more lucrative than than education. I think one of the. Areas where districts have been successful I'm going to site Hot Springs a few years ago they actually created a a salary schedule of that put math teachers and maybe some science teachers at a higher level. you know in the there's an argument over fairness and that sort of thing but I mean that if if you really want to recruit those high need areas districts have to put something in place that is going to make those jobs more attractive so that's one district that I know that is taken a rather extraordinary step to do that and some districts are using signing bonuses for those high need areas so but part of of our effort into each Arkansas and all these things it is focusing on the stem fields so that we can meet those needs in the future are the shortages and all over the state I'm sorry Mister chair are those shortages all over this state or in just certain demographic area there really statewide K. thank you Mister you you have an easy in a larger district it may be It's probably masked a little bit because you have more than one. class of more than one. you have the the the teacher teams are bigger. But there are still gaps in those teacher teams even in a little rock a fait it bill and then trying to find those those teachers come in when someone retires or moves on this still challenge and those it's really exacerbated in the rural areas where simply if you don't have your your a singleton so if your chemistry and your physics and your physical science and and your everything it's it's tough fill that in a small district. Do we have any numbers of the exodus of teachers during a COVID has a make. you know we was we don't have animal we we have anecdotal and you know we hear from districts that you know said well we have more made your teachers leave this year but in the aggregate we're not seeing just a spike in that that just want to any of the move started coming back after the risk was gonna go so well you know part of the teach Arkansas we have teach again is an element of that we're so we again to represent speaks you have a question about the she's working with those who may be a I have left the field and are looking to come back we had great success with that pro rated three four years ago and we're re upping that so trying to streamline the process for coming back okay. We can get you those numbers when we have numbers car on that represents Springer St will have number center you may have got your questions answered not only you. Thank you Mister chair I just have a few follow up he did And so portion of it but I did not hear what that plan is call that. It's it's just teacher teacher mystery recruitment and retention plan okay so that helps me out and then I take it that this Sarracenia is the person that's in charge of progress monitoring of the plan is that correct well it's actually joint effort with our equity center that M. is for solace Ford I also had that and we're doing this together and so you and and the last question so you say that is it'll be August before you have your information and then you'll start looking at the data that you receive in August and then you'll be able to so how does how do we find out what the results are with respect to what you were collected. Well the August one is when they submit the plan I mean obviously depends on what's in their plan and the measures that the that they cite in their plan so I mean more than likely it would be a year from them before we start saying or or the next cool year before we start seeing if their plans are actually meeting what they expected to so August one twenty two that will be the plan that they use for the twenty two twenty three school year going into the twenty three twenty four school year they should have data to know if that plan is working so I know we have a number of school districts across the state so how many people within the department in that equity Senator have that responsibility do you have sufficient staff to be able to of. By the results of those plans from the district's. Well that that team is also taking on all of the calls regarding bullying and that is filled their workload immensely right now so we're hoping that that is that that will recede as we get more programs out there mental behavioral health programs but at this point we think we are full if we are sufficiently staffed to deal with that. Thank you Mr. The representative five. Thank you Mr chair this may not be so much a question far the department education as far as to ask ourselves is committee members I met this subtest week with superintendents from my area and administrators and one of them said I don't mean to sound rude but did you guys just leave us alone for a little while he said we're recovering from co that our kids have lost a lot in the last two years and being out of school and he said before you your brain new laws forward could you just think about if we really need to do this all right we're just adding something else our teachers and for administrators to do and he showed me a picture of what his desk looked like at one time with papers piled up this high of changes that he said that that we did he was saying the legislature did it maybe you did a little bit too I don't know if that task anyway I just think that's something good for us to ask ourselves going forward if we can lighten the load a little bit by looking at everything that we do and seeing if it's really necessary thank you. Senator Chesterfield. I should be brief. I left the house of representatives in all nine when I got back I found that we had lost six as a full year course somewhere along the line we had passed and help me Johnny because you with the. That point people had had five successful years of teaching at three successful years of teaching we were not going to burden them with having to take the practice again and all these other things is that back again because we passed legislation eliminating some of it. S. the folks will moving into this state you want to teach or be a principal whatever in this state we had said if they had been successful somewhere else we would grandfather them in has that changed no ma'am no it hasn't changed we we have reciprocity if if they come in from another state we don't require I think they stay stuck to get Arkansas history July. In science of reading so yes yeah so we have not changed that I was getting the information as representative speaks was talking that somehow it was more difficult. All in the other question I have very simply is are we the ones who are requiring teachers to upload data every day descend to every student that they have. DO not to my knowledge I mean they that's the concern I'm hearing in my area that every day I have to tell my parents every parent that I have of every child exactly what my check that child is done during the course of the day and it's just mind boggling how much time it takes I remember having to input it certainly in my record book and every fourth week we would report to the parents the progress we're asking folks in some districts to upload that data every day I had a hundred sixty kids a day that's a hundred sixty. Uploads a day and it's driving some folks out of profession is that something from the state or is that something at the local school district that is driving people crazy yeah I don't know that that would be a new requirement from the state we will check to to see if that's coming from the state and if you want to shoot me a note with the what district two there's something else we can follow up on would be happy to thank you thank you Mr. Okay reserve I'm I'm I don't have much to do with them anymore Senator so. How many up close you do today. What how many of those do you do today. Russell brown you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of. Secretary I am was through all this discussion about the difficulty of of hiring teachers to teach the stem subjects. I was just wondering has there been any effort to thing courage people who are retiring from professional fields to consider the alternative teaching program because they certainly you know they retire in rural areas and resort areas in downtown areas so yeah absolutely I might be a good source that that's you know part of our effort to to appeal and and recruit career changers and we have a team specifically dedicated to receive those calls and and identify who those folks might be and get them the information on what it would take to leverage their long years of experience and expertise into a teaching career. Thank you good to hear. One more time for senator Hammer. Thank you Mr I wanted to clarify rescue clarify something you said well we'll make sure we're did you say you were seeking or getting help from an outside firm to distinguish between federal laws state laws what you just reference that may actually be a district requirement not necessarily driven by state law or federal law to what gender Chesterfield was just talking about did you say you you were recruiting help you get that done. Yes having of an outside entity there's a organization called the region fourteen a comprehensive center they are funded by the federal government to act as a support network for the state's so we've been working with them to see create this we don't know what it looks like exactly yet but this weather surveys interviews whatever it might be to to help us determine exactly you know what what it is the teachers perceive or in reality is on their plate and what the source of that is is that is a state is it a district is that a federal requirement and then determined because until we know exactly what it is why they're doing it who has asked them to do it it's very difficult for me to come and tell you to hear those things and this is the help we need to get rid of some of those burdens. Could could you get a list of the categories are going to look at so like is it a law that we as legislature has passed have passed is a some of the U. S. department came up is that federal could we get the columns that they're gonna be looking at and how long you think it'll take them to complete that report as soon as I get a proposal from them and and well I'm I'm happy to share that with you so I don't have it yet but I'll get it for you is that going to come through peer for the approval of the funding for that are you know that to date there funded they're federally state that organizations federally funded us they work with us on a number of projects there should not be any funding that would come through they they activities similar to how the co ops operate for school districts that is our relationship that we have with them so there shouldn't be any funding that would be required well I'm not a member of the committee but as a individual center I'd like to get a copy that when you get it and thank you yes Sir. Thank you I think that's all the questions. So at this time we have two more presentations all hang in here with us we got another three hours ago so Well it took an hour and some for the questions so I'm just looking at what we possibly one of the Ladies you're recognized to continue. Okay so our next presentation is all about teacher salaries and this is a statutorily required reports. So and if you're looking in your binder under the at today's a today's tab it will be handout C. four is the I am reports that we're going to be going out. During this presentation. So there we are brief introduction then we will look at national southern regional education board and surrounding average salary comparisons between Arkansas and those areas then we will take a look at salary disparity in Arkansas. Then we will do a review of the Arkansas minimum salary schedule. And provide a review of salaries of select professions that require a bachelor's degree in Arkansas. I'm not gonna read all these to you but this is basically everything I just wanna run that previous five but we're going to be looking at for that surrounding states in the National and S. R. U. B. states the comparisons that will be looking at twenty twenty data and then whenever we get into the salaries in state rather than trying to see if there's any disparity in salaries within Arkansas we will be using and we will using twenty twenty one eight at. So we'll start off with average teacher salary comparisons Between eight nationally and with S. R. U. B. states and surrounding states and just so you know for each one of the slides in this presentation there is a corresponding table in your report that provides the twenty twenty national education association average salary then the cost of living adjusted average salary and a ranking and that ranking is using the cost of living adjusted salary it's not the ranking using the unadjusted salary. So here for the national average salary comparisons the national average salary for twenty twenty was sixty four thousand one hundred thirty three dollars which is an increase of almost three percent and Arkansas's average twenty twenty salary was the fifty thousand five hundred forty six dollars which was an increase of a little over two percent. And there you can see their rankings Arkansas's I'm before it was adjusted was forty sevens among the fifty states and district Columbia. And then we did provide a cost of living adjustment using the Missouri cost of living data series index and you can see that with that Arkansas moves up in the national rankings to twenty eight. For the southern regional education board states and the average the regional average salary is the fifty five thousand two hundred five and then you can see again the average salary for Arkansas and they get this is for twenty twenty Arkansas among the sixteen as very be states we rank thirteenth before was adjusted but with the cost of living adjustment we rose at ten nine. Then you can also see the comparisons between twenty eighteen nineteen and twenty. For the surrounding states I am. And the average salary was fifty not fifty one thousand eight hundred and nineteen dollars and out of the seven out of the surrounding states we rank six which is the same as I is it we were in twenty nineteen with the cost of living adjustment we went up to fourth. So now we'll move into average teacher salaries within the state of Arkansas and again this is using twenty twenty one day that were as the comparisons we just went over was using twenty twenty and also I want to make a note that there are differences between the national education association their methodology for calculating average teacher salaries and the BLRC methodology and I'm not gonna get into all the details of that methodology but you can find in appendix a we've used this methodology for for several years now. So this first chart provides information on district and charter open open enrollment public charter school systems average teacher salaries and then you'll see about that is what the matrix amount is for those years now that matrix amount does not include benefits that is strictly the salary amounts and the matrix to calculate foundation funding has consistently the salary rather has consistently been higher than the average salary for districts and charter school systems. And in twenty twenty one the legislature created the teacher's salary actualisation fine to assist in addressing disparities in teacher salaries and to help us start meeting that target if that was set by the legislature of fifty one thousand eight hundred twenty two dollars but obviously that was that was just enacted in so you're not gonna see that data reflected here. This compares average salaries at the school level so the previous fights were at the and that district and charter school system level so these are the schools that are within those districts and charter school systems within each of these categories and again just as a reminder if you I need to reference those categories in the descriptions are there provided behind tab five and your binder you can see that regular schools and to. Tended to have higher average salary than charter school systems and urban schools in urban areas tended to have generally had a higher salary salary level levels generally declined with higher levels are free or reduced lunch populations and generally increase with higher concentrations of minority students. And your salary levels generally grew at schools with increasingly large within rather increasingly large districts and successful schools had an average salary of about five hundred dollars higher than at the other schools. So this I'm this chart here shows the gap between the highest and the lowest salaries average salaries rather for school districts in the strictly public school districts doesn't include and the charters and the gap had been declining up until twenty twenty when it began to increase again if you want to see a list of all of the average teacher salaries for public school districts that are provided in appendix B. of that report I mean they're sorted from highest to lowest. Here this chart provides compares rather average salaries for district of the school level so again just just districts and similar to the previous comparisons average teacher salaries generally or higher at schools within urban areas and and generally declined with higher levels or free and reduced lunch populations. I also again increase with larger just saw larger districts sizes and here successful schools had an average salary of a little bit over four hundred dollars more than the others. Here is a original look at the average teacher salaries for public school districts and generally these were higher in the central and north west regions. So now I will talk about open enrollment public charter school systems and this is showing you the gap between the highest and lowest average salaries of those of those charter school systems in schools in here the gap decline in twenty nineteen you can see that gap declined in twenty nineteen and then started to go back up and twenty twenty one however it was still and even into even that increase is still lower than it was in twenty eighteen and twenty seventeen. And the same and type of information for open enrollment public charter school systems as provided I have for you in appendix C. so you can see their average salaries listed from highest to lowest. Server the school level analysis and and just in other words three charter schools that we were unable to obtain information and the Arkansas Public School Computer Network so they're not included in this analysis I'm here you can see the average teacher salaries are generally higher at schools within rule areas and they're they're just not really any distinct patterns for minority categories or free and reduced lunch categories and the reason why you don't see a number there for that Lois minority quintiles because they're just simply were not any. Here again there wasn't a clear pattern for size but successful schools did have an average salary of about twenty eight hundred dollars higher than the other schools for open enrollment public charter school systems. Average salaries were generally higher in the north we western region again here. So I am the teacher salary report has traditionally provided annual means salary information for occupations Arkansas the require a bachelor's degree and so here we provided that information using twenty twenty Y. and U. S. bureau of labor labor statistics employment and wage estimates you can see that the highest is for electric electrical engineers of the eighty five thousand three hundred sixty dollars and then we've highlighted for you where at the secondary middle school and elementary teachers fall on this list. So now we will do a review of the minimum salary schedule an Arkansas does not mandate teacher salaries but it does actually to really require or rather provide for a minimum salary for teachers. And here and. This. The General Assembly enacted the teacher's salary enhancement act or act at one seventy of twenty nineteen and this establishes as mean the minimum teacher salary schedules which increase that minimum salary for yours nineteen twenty three twenty two twenty three. And the schedule includes a minimum salary for bachelor's degree prepared teachers and masters degree prepare teachers from zero years of experience to fifteen years of experience and here you will see that salary schedule for twenty twenty one. And their that increase for the BA and MA degree prepare teachers for zero years of experience was increased by a thousand dollars and twenty twenty one an act one seventy retained the and increase of four hundred and fifty dollars for bachelor's degrees and prepare teachers rather and I have five hundred dollars for master's degree prepare teachers for each succeeding year within the US that salary schedule. And I'm just a note that the minute you're salaries provided throughout the rest of this section of this presentation are strictly for bachelor's degree were strictly looking at batches degree prepare teachers zero years of experience. So here this chart provides this shows you how many and how many districts were paying the minimum teacher salary for over this course of the over these years and so since salaries began to increase the statement mandated minimum salary began to increase in twenty sixteen the number of districts at the minimum salary began to increase culminating with the ninety seven that you see there for the twenty twenty one year so there's ninety seven districts that are paying the minimum of thirty three thousand eight hundred dollars. Now here you will see in this is just for public school districts the twenty twenty one average minimum salary was thirty five thousand seven hundred and ninety nine dollars and this shows you the difference between the lowest minimum salary and the highest are right there in twenty twenty one the nineties there's ninety seven districts are paying that thirty three thousand eight hundred but then you have a district that is paying forty eight thousand two hundred as their minimum. That's the difference and I had so in total a hundred and thirty seven districts and twenty twenty one we're paying above the minimum salary. Hendren and thirty seven. And this is just a different view of that data this is showing you the actual gap between the highest and lowest minimum salary for school districts between these years and you can see as a state mandated minimum salary has increased that gap has decreased and so it's it's decline and so now we're at fourteen thousand four hundred and eighty two dollars is is the the gap between the highest and the lowest minimum salary in the state I'm and you don't see on this chart because were providing five years worth of data but the gap was at its highest in twenty fifteen whatever it was at seventeen thousand two hundred fifty six dollars and a full list of all school districts minimum salaries are provided for you in appendix D. of this of this report. So twenty eight districts paid a minimum salary of forty thousand dollars or more in twenty twenty one okay I'm a Springdale adopting the highest minimum salary at that forty eight thousand two hundred and eighty two dollars and is shown in this table there for the five districts are paying the highest minimum salary are within three counties. And while been in Washington County each have to have the highest paying minimum salary school districts in the state disparities do exist among the starting salaries paid I districts within the same counties and here this this table shows that so the difference between the highest minimum in the lowest minimum within Washington County is thirteen thousand two hundred seventy five dollars so if you think back to what Adrian's presentation she had provided some data online responses in the search of the survey on the teachers who said that they were thinking about possibly moving to another district and sixty one percent of those who responded that they were thinking about that said it had to do with higher salaries. I'm also here you can see the difference and Benton county between the highest minimum starting salary and Lois was twelve thousand nine hundred and fifty dollars and then the the last one for Garland and a full list of this information is provided for in appendix II for you so you can see what the gap is between the highest starting minimum salary and allowance for each county in the state. So now we were at showing the same type of information for open enrollment public charter school systems so here and and the minimum salary for public charter school systems that averages thirty seven thousand thirty seven dollars which is actually three point five percent higher than the average school districts Allori and minimum salary rather and here you see the highest and the lowest for each of the years provided or I'm sorry we can't turn on my screen sorry about that and you can see the gap and it it was increasing gradually over the years but then went at in twenty twenty one and that that has to do with one there's one charter that increase their salary your minimum salary by twelve percent in one year and so there so there's fewer you know charter schools so that's why you see the subject a job between those years. Questions. We have a couple. Sir Chesterfield. Thank you very much this chair one of the reasons that as we look at lake view and trying to deal with it back in two thousand three. Was the huge disparity in salary we had an individual and they do have two masters degrees and was making probably fifteen thousand dollars less than a person who was living in Northwest Arkansas and teaching. Senator Elliot came up with the idea of providing that four thousand dollars to try to equalize those salaries to some extent. What is troubling to me now is we still have the disparity. And. A lot of that is dependent upon local wealth would you agree rather than state effort. How much role is local wealth playing. What role are they is the plain and how much we're able to afford to pay our teachers. I don't have an answer for that for you right now I mean we can certainly look into what I'm looking at the local wealth I'm looking at Northwest Arkansas which is the industry the gross someone said is not about wells but it has a lot to do with wealth of the area in which you live as to how much you can afford to pay your teachers and I keep saying that the only way you really know what adequacy is is to look at in adequacy marble high school which now contains I think lake view is and I would like you is now Mr. Okay I think it is it's in marble and I'm looking at the facilities and I'm looking at the salaries and the disparity hasn't changed that much one Lake View came about or have you had a chance to look at it and find out anything about it I'd appreciate it if you will look at where the salaries are in current lake view which is a model school district and the area I think they were dealing with then was Fort Smith but the highest paid very and in north west can we look at that and see what that disparities I would be glad to look at that for you I would appreciate it very much and one of the reasons that we looked at these things to give extra money is because you cannot retain people and have them be poor. And one of the reasons people are not going into teaching is they're not rushing to be poor even though we've increased salaries when you look at the other professions that require the same amount of training. We are woefully lacking. Would you agree. Senator Hammer. Thank you I'm just curious when you looked at the research on the salaries did you factor in teacher retirement plans or benefit plans as a compared to other states in our region or was it just a straight out salary. And the national comparisons are using the national education association their report that they publish every year it's using their at their calculation for national salaries within Arkansas that strictly using art eight in its twenty twenty one data and it is not include salary does not include benefits. Okay. And then. Was there any connection between the rate of teachers leaving charter schools on what they're being paid and teachers leaving public schools and what they're being paid. We have an. In are you asking if there's a correlation between the two is there a correlation for example teachers maybe in charter schools are getting paid less but they're not leaving as fast of a rate as teachers who maybe are getting paid more public school but are leaving at a faster rate. Am I have not we have not looked into that but we would be glad to try to to try to see if we can provide you that information. The reason I bring that up is because seventy five percent relieving because of stress and the questions of the administration I'm just wondering comparing the two models if teachers are happier and one even though they're getting paid less than those are getting paid more that are on happier in a different model that would be the chair's discretion let's do it I'd ask is an individual senator but I'm not sure what your wants to do on that one. I'll take that into consideration thank you one other question if I may. Are there are there do you track teachers for example I know teachers of west central Arkansas moved northwest Arkansas in the last two three years of their teaching career so they can get that higher salary bump which directly impacts their retirement do you track or you have the capability of tracking the geographical relocation of teachers from one area of the state to another and how many that amounts to. I'm I do not I do not I'm I'm not aware of that within the BLR that may be something that does the tracks but it's not something that we are able to track within B. L. R. okay seven offline conversation thank you Mr is that something the Department tracks the commissioner probably not. Okay thanks again bye tracks that okay. A representative Springer. Thank you Mr chair I'm I would just like to follow up on US senator Chesterfield inquired with respect to the why minimum salaries are not being paid so are there all the data that can be collected by your offices in order to give us reasons why bill salaries are not being paid. All the minimum salary is being paid by. From this is the school districts that have not met that requirement is is I guess is my question no all all school districts have met the requirements all school districts are paying at least the minimum salary thirty three thousand eight hundred dollars or more ninety seven districts within the state are only paying the thirty three thousand eight hundred or a hundred and thirty seven that are paying thirty three thousand. Senator Elliot. Thank you Mr chair at based on the. The terms cool that raised its. All right so based on that twelve percent which is really impressive Do you know the you know are in your research. How whether or not that whole twelve percent came from the funding from the state or their other sources do you happen to know the answer to that question I do not know the answer to that question and so Mister zero with the battle from the Department education I don't need to come up here I just wonder if if the department. Knows if charter schools are allowed to have any funding outside of support for raising salaries that is not money that comes directly from the state or are they required to use money that comes to just directly from the state. Is. Are they allowed yes like this they are allowed to have to increase salaries with funding that's outside of this state funding. That's pretty amazing. All right thank you. Russell brown. Thank you Mr chair of my question relates to what representative Springer just inquired about its on page eight of when you were talking about the minimum teacher salary schedule I too was confused and wanted to know if it's mandated why are some schools not paying the minimum something you said Megan gave me that impression of could you please clarify Sir what that what that chart represents you say on page eight of the report Page eight the minimum teacher salary schedule. Size twenty four. Yes. Okay so it in I'm sorry this money back this was this probably is a confusing chart but what this is actually showing is the number you were meeting the minimum over the years okay not just meeting the minimum he worked at the minimum who are paying the very minimum so as of twenty twenty one there ninety seven out of the two hundred and thirty five or thirty at the turn thirty five school districts there are ninety seven that are paying the minimum but a hundred and thirty seven are paying above the minimum so every school district is paying at least the minimum okay so that was the confusion because it sounded as if they weren't paying what they should have they are they are paying thank you. That was last the questions you're ready to move on. Thank you. So we're going to wrap up by looking at professional development and teacher evaluations. In order to do this in two different sections or when I first talk about fashion of elements so we're gonna look at what the research says a regarding best practices what the state requires of educators in regards or profession of element relevant programs that the state we haven't regarding president of elements will some relevant survey results if my B. L. R. survey. Then we'll move on teacher evaluation so again we'll look briefly as a national research on that topic then we'll talk about this evaluation system itself teacher ratings and then relevant survey results again so we'll get started with PD shall well if you're not entertain doubly PD is professionalism. So we'll start with the national research and what effective professional development looks like. So they're seven features identified as components of effective professional development and these are those seven you can find more information more details on each of those in your report and I think that is handout C. five the the report itself in your binder. And so these are those those sevens any content focus supporting collaboration lasting having enough time with the material with the. That may yet make sure that you're learning. Additionally so another twenty one twenty twenty one a study of one hundred and four different profession development programs concluded that teacher profession of element canting crew Prue student achievement though it can vary depending on the quality of that PD and I found three forms of affected PT that you can see here a lesson study instructional coaching and strong teacher learning communities within that identify for different purposes that that the PT should be trying to achieve that's instilling insight motivating goals teaching techniques and and batting practice. And any other programs that address all four of these purposes are going to be on average more effective. And these are the four and within that they identify fourteen different mechanisms ways of achieving those purposes so I won't go through each one of these of the Ardennes five more in your report and but they noted that programs with more mechanisms actually those get a least one for each purpose they're gonna be more effective helping teachers as an incident performance. The research knows that there are some barriers that can impact even the best design professional development and these are those barriers so they can have an adequate resources lack of time to implement what was learned in which high in the presence of element as well as dysfunctional school portrait school cultures or inability to track or assess quality of professional development. So that brings us to the requirements of state has on in regards to educators and their requirements on PT so we're going to first go over what that purpose is defined in statute what the annual requirements are for teachers and educators and how that's defined in this state content requirements and then the math different methods used to meet those to get those credits. So the purpose of PD as defined in statute is to improve teaching and learning in order to facilitate individual school wide and system wide improvements designed to ensure that all students demonstrate proficiency on state academic standards. And teachers have to have six minimum days in their contracts dedicated to to professional development which the equipment of thirty six hours and they have to have a professional development plan. And this state defines the PD is these are activities that are improving the knowledge skills and teachers and administrators appear professionals it's Leding to improve student academic achievement in his research and standards based. Some of content requirements so teachers educators have to have two hours of one of the following on a rotating basis over four years so that's child maltreatment parental involvement teen suicide awareness Arkansas history as applicable. And then some kind of either training or awareness in dyslexia human trafficking as rise and then bowling prevention and recognition. And there is some additional apartments for specific positions so easy for athletic coaches and school counselors have additional trainings either every three years or every four years you can see there. And then there these are the different ways that teachers can earn these credits so there's a wide array of ray of methods that can be used to achieve that so can be workshops and conferences it could be time used to plan prep curriculum or could be work that they're putting towards that national board of professional teaching standards certification. So that brings us into our president development programs and I want to go quick recap and we party cover the funding and spending by one time as a recap on those numbers again before getting some of these programs that we alluded to in the past so again districts and charters receiving a portion we've already covered that in the past February and yesterday's report we have solution tree which receives twelve point five million of those categorical fines and Etienne receives two point seven at in that same for twenty twenty one so we're gonna go over those programs that includes Arkansas ideas this is through eight ten and then the professional learning communities or PLCS program an offshoot of that which includes the inclusive practices PLC program. So Arkansas ideas this stance for internet delivered education for Arkansas schools it is a partnership between does he and AT and the Arkansas educational television network. Center this is the online PD available for last educators and those who are working towards their licensure. And here's some quick statistics are more included in your report if you're interested as you can see seventy five thousand users seven serving the program within this is a two year period from twenty twenty to twenty twenty to thirty five any courses were added that time frame so total that has seven hundred and thirty courses available some of those more confident common ones include some of the ones we covered and this content requirements the bullying science of reading and and human trafficking. So that brings us to the professional learning communities or PLCS pilot program so I will genuine history again but I do wanna remind you that it began back in the twenty eighteen school year the partnership between daisy and solution tree which is a and research organization or nonprofit organization. Dedicated to providing support for teachers specifically PLC's and there's forty three concerning schools and districts as of the twenty twenty one school year so we're not going include co four five which began in the twenty twenty two school year in this in this report to each cohort of schools prohibit dissipates for three years and they have to apply through daisy and they'll determine and. That still be determined the eligibility. And then this is the objective of the program as identified in the contract with solution stream. So does it defines PLC's as an on going to this is the definition though broadly you can refer to any kind of structure collaboration between teachers and staff in either in a formal or informal format and so PLC's can be strictly their solution tree but probably they can be implemented outside of that in various ways. So within this particular pilot program their solution tree each participating school or district is matched with a coach to solution tree and receive a plan that includes the following things other including fifty days of onsite PD from solution tree staff different various resources book video online very subscriptions registrations for appeals the events and ongoing phone and email support from their coach. And this is a map that's probably better seen in your report but this is a map showing of all those cohort one through four participating schools and districts. So go over a few different analyses that have been done is or at least three that have been done on the effectiveness of the program so to where these were done by the LR one of these was by education northwest and I'm gonna go through each of those here so the first now this was a qualitative study that we conducted back in twenty nineteen with three of the cohort one schools then we had education northwest evaluation that was done on behalf of does the insulation tree back in twenty twenty one again looking at they're looking at cohort one schools and then we did additional analysis in earlier this year looking at cohort one through three schools. And we desperately looking ACT aspire scores. So I'm gonna first go over that first analysis so can we talk to three different administrators as well as an instructional facilitator of three of the cohort one schools. And generally they spoke fairly favor pretty favorably about it they all recommended it to them noted that it was the best training they had received the the increase student achievement wasn't always reflected in this state assessment of ACT aspire scores either school letter grade and and then with the students disabilities are spending more time in traditional classrooms which was beneficial to their achievement. So there were some challenges noted amongst those conversations so there was some trouble sometimes accessing resources specifically I noted that registrations for PLC is is provided though the schools and districts are still responsible providing travel to those events so sometimes I can be a logistical issue for schools and additionally some logistical challenges came up in terms of scheduling and the time required out of classroom for teachers some of the noted that even though they were it was a challenge is still beneficial but it still presented some challenges in terms of getting teachers and out of the classroom make sure all the other requirements are in their assignments are still being mad. Some other comments that came up as so they know that to be successful you really need a full buy in from the school or the participating district you have to have leadership on board everybody the on board it was kind of a big it's a culture change the needed everyone it's by and for it to be successful and. And then additionally there were some comments about resources not being tailored enough am terms of specific needs I'll note here that the appeal C. model is designed to teach processes or help with processes is not designed to teach content. And so the education northwest analysis so they looked at cohort one schools and they used various different pieces of information so they did surveys of educators in covert one schools at various interviews with administrations close entry staff and other stakeholders as well as focus groups with those parties they looked at various paperwork documentation of the program and different needs assessment and training materials as well as school and student data from eighty east of civically ACT aspire scores from the twenty seventeen school year what was that last year for them prior to implementation and that most recent you're available at that time which was twenty nineteen. And the night they found multiple findings here so them noted improve student academic achievement positive changes instructional practices and improve culture of collaboration as well as having support from school leaders and having and being able to fully implement the program. So next I want to get into the BLR analysis so we did this earlier this year so we looked AT ACT aspire scores for cohort one schools and then cohort one three three schools we have multiple we have two different groups that we'll see here shortly and we used for some twenty seventeen so that was the last year for all those cohort three school all of those Concord's one through three that was the last year for all of them to prior to implementation so that was kind of our our base here in twenty nineteen and then twenty twenty one since we now have that available. And so we looked at students in those appeals the pilot schools verses all other students who were not an appeals the pilot school so that means if you have you also want to put out there before we go into the data. So there could be seven schools are implementing a form of appeal see outside of the pilot program that is not accounted for in our analysis additionally we're looking strictly at standardized test scores were not using any other school level data that they may be using on their own to tracksuit engrossed. So additionally back in twenty eighteen there was a change in the readiness benchmark benchmark for English language arts scores so that may impact some of the E. LA scores that'll see and additionally there are other factors that we can account for that may impact change over time in these test scores. And we have more scores scores listed in your report we included different subpopulation analysis for free and reduced price students as well as black and Hispanic students just to be consistent with education northwest analysis so this is cohort one all students this is the percentage of students scoring ready or exceeding on the ACT aspire you'll see the PLC pilot schools versus non you'll see pilot schools you'll see the grant indicates a growth for that particular comparison period the dark red indicates that was without say the pink shows a decline the red shows whether if it was the highest a Klein you know in some of those might not be huge gaps that might be you know relatively one or two three point difference but just like an indicate which one to hire decline is that so you'll see for example in mass appeals the. They grew the increased scores improved from twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen which is consistent with education northwest findings though they did drop from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one. And that was a drop was bigger than the drop that was present for non PLC schools and of course COVID impact has it impacted we don't know exactly what that is but we know that co that impacted students statewide student performance. so somewhere there with a LA scores and then this is looking at student cohorts one through three so this is they're all grouped together in this cohort of looking at their scores in twenty seventeen to twenty nineteen and I know that that twenty seventeen base your might not be the base year for all those cohorts for for example over one started in twenty nineteen so twenty seventeen was that last year but that might be the last year might be twenty eighteen twenty nineteen for subsequent cohorts. But you'll see here the declines as the decreases were bigger amongst appeals the school's verses the non PLC schools again some of those gaps aren't. relatively small There but overall we didn't find any consistent trends indicate positive or negative impact of the program. The majority of the findings show decreases across all years across all groups NO notice here this statistical significance there was no trend there there is some of those I think at less than half of those were considered statistically significant so there is no a pattern there to determine relationships on the front. So the final one is amended briefly talk about as inclusive practices PLC this the offshoot it is not state funded is receives federal funding so as not getting into state categorical fines this is an expansion of the PLC program the pilot began the twenty twenty one school year and it's focusing on students with disabilities as well as other groups of struggling learners. And then some survey results this comes from BLR as educators surveys of teachers and so we asked on the left these are forms of PD that are use occasionally most or all the time so the most frequent and on the right we showed Senator teachers their rating of whether it's very useful or essential I'm still seek some you know some differences there on those lists some of those well some of them might be used more frequently they're not necessarily always the most the highest rating rated in terms of value to the teacher. I'm and I'll add some additional comments that teachers made throughout the the survey regards to PD so there were some positive and negative comments that they left and different parts of the survey but positive ones they focus one of them talk with the benefits of collaboration in general not necessarily some of that was appeal sees someone that was without PLC's but they noted that additionally the benefits of classroom experience was really helpful for them and sometimes they were always getting enough of that in their preparation programs as. In terms of negative comments majority focused on distributing that needs not being met so that might be in regards to this they were really having much of a say in what they're Petey but Petey they were receiving second be an issue sometimes I just some of the PD was just not specific enough to addressed their specific needs as teachers. And there are some additional comments that is talk about logistical issues as I kind of alluded to earlier but it's sometimes there's just this commute issue with making the time to take PD to travel if they need to travel out of state or for no further away for that and for that training. So that brings us to teacher evaluations so the Education Commission of the states they know two different purposes of an effective teacher evaluation systems that accountability and developments. And we looked at how other states are structuring their teacher evaluation systems that full list can be found in your report this is going to the summary view of those findings so amongst those comparison groups that we talked about earlier the top Nate performing states the top three B. states in US contiguous states since the date when this A. three B. states most of those are being doesn't sign at the district or local level I usually based on some kind of state guidelines or state criteria there is a bit of a split on how much input the state is having in terms of approving or what they're involved in is in those in those systems no the contiguous states there is more of a trend of more of a mix summer local decision summer state decision summer statewide you know there is one system that everyone uses it is a little bit of variance there on that one. But with that that brings us to our teacher excellence and support systems so this is an evaluation and support system for teachers at the state use a statewide across all the districts. All teachers with the exception of novice teachers and I'll explain those here shortly after receive an evaluation at least once every four years they can receive more valuations and that but they have to reach that minimum. And it's based on Charlotte Danielson framework for teaching which those four different domains that are used to inform those valuations. And then there's four different sources of evidence that are used to form that so that's direct observation so that's an administrator know going into a classroom in watching a teacher teach. Indirect observations this might be watching a group of students form a line in the hallway without their teacher present then different forms of artifacts and data that data can include student performance stated but it doesn't necessarily have to include that as as a matter. That artifacts do not have to be use of observation or data is being used. So I won't go into the whole Negrete of how the system works there in a couple of things about it so the professional growth plans this is essentially a living documents and and it links professional learning opportunities to teacher growth outcomes. And then the other part of this I want to talk about as a novice teachers that alluded to earlier so these are teachers and their first three years of teaching they do not have to have that summative that main teacher evaluation though they are still going through different levels types of support from their district I had to make sure that they're getting everything that they need to be effective teachers so mentorship there is all kinds of different trainings and target is apartment for the king and I will necessary PD to take May third there needs. So in terms of evaluations so we don't have score some twenty twenty one is a that requirements way for the twenty twenty one school year due to covid but of the scores the ratings that were provided of twenty percent didn't have any and then of the remaining only one percent actually had any teachers that were considered ineffective. Statewide. And then finally went over some results from BLR surveys so this is a comparison of teachers versus principals responses on various forms elements of tennis so this ask educators if they consider tests at various for essential at meeting these various objectives you'll see the variance the blue shows principals responses hanker the teachers to see does it does a gap in their perceptions of tests of principles are generally more favorable viewing it viewing it more favorably than teachers in terms of meeting these objectives by reading teachers fairly consistently providing support improving teaching and promoting professional learning for teachers. And then additionally we asked educators principals and teachers whether they agreed with various statements regarding testing some new statements come from past surveys that we've conducted we've got a lot of additional responses or comments I should say. Along these different lines we wanted to better collect that data you'll see this against invariance principles generally see this more favorably on this front with the exception of The compiling data compilation process in the tests in regards to morale little bit of see the teachers viewing it better on that front. But you'll see that the largest gap there are some gaps again those gaps the largest one is whether test sets clear expectations and whether tests is objective is to be the biggest gap between their principals and teachers there. And then finally we ask them what forms of teacher evaluation generally are more effective for work but the consider very useful or essential forms so these of those ratings. We'll see again some gaps between what principles thinker effective tools and what teacher stinker effective tools that evaluating teachers as. Teachers generally thought that students a day work was a good measure of evaluating teachers were as principals the majority of them tend to see that classroom observations were more useful evaluating teachers. but with that I will take any questions. Okay here we go Senator just feel. Thank you Mr chairman thank you so very much for giving me my first summative evaluation of. Of the work of feel sees but I digress what is troubling to me is. We as a state have not put in place a lesson plan for discipline. I taught I taught a course the state department approved through the ACA. Because we are not preparing teachers as to how to deal with certain situations. They're not going to be a successful I think is one of the things that we have missed AS in Education Committee dealing with adequacy if our teachers and not adequately trained in how to deal with various situations in the classroom and we have studies that show that they're not a successful so I wanted to share with my colleagues perhaps we ought to create that lesson plan there are some that exist already but we ought to consider perhaps making that a part of our recommendations as to what should schools do as far as professional development is concerned because you can give me all the roll roll roll stuff in the world if I cannot control the class. In a positive way I'm not going to be successful so thank you Mr I know you thought I was going to go on and on about PLC's but I'm not the data speaks for itself. Well like I disagree I don't think it's our job to do lesson plans for school so I would Pass on that one but represent McKenzie ripple. Thank you Mr chairman thank you for that work I also had asked for this information departments cation I asked them. But well over a year ago maybe longer they sent me a link tell me to look up the scores which tell me wanted two things either they have looked them up or they look them up and then for what we just saw. So I spent a lot of time going to the scores and I wanted to be fair make sure I wasn't cherry picking to go either way so it it took some time and we pretty much came to the same conclusion so I appreciate that can I speak with secretary KSE here. Or someone that he had to go to a meeting so he's not who you need to hear just about body from departments have compilatio season on the PLC's of doctor while you're here. If you would come up please. Well she's coming up I will say thirty six hours for teachers for professional development. Attorneys. Twelve hours. Twelve hours a year is what we have to do and yet trusts are still taking place I don't think we have a big huge outcry from people is saying we need more professional development for attorneys but we just require twelve hours. For attorneys so my question first of all on Education northwest I know that I think we've gotten evaluation for them are you aware that they are hired by solution tree to evaluate solution tree. Hi I'm missing wallet director special projects at eighty and yes we are aware that they are a third party research firm hired by solution tree in order to assess project because I think that's just certainly relevant information if I hire somebody to evaluate me if I'm going to I'm going to continue to renew that contract chances are I want to a favorable valuation so I think that certainly goes into the credibility of it so this information here that I that we received today on the test scores and I went out and looked to retrieve for myself When did you all have that information. When did we have the room the information as the report on the ACT aspire those test scores we have the test scores of handing and so when did you want my question yearly Minnesota okay so then you all saw what we saw that it looks like there's just not really anything appreciable appreciative differentiates between differentiation between the schools appeals the anon PLC so my question is this is a hundred million dollar contract in each year we keep extending it the seven year but we re re wrap being cited every year renew it every year and we continue to spend more. Every year But did you will have what I saw that we really weren't doesn't appear that we were getting a good bang for our Buck and yet we continue to add more of that are the people we represent their Bucks to it. Yes and let me first say that we've only had two cohorts that completed this process we're about to finish with our third cohort so when you look at the data that presented by understand it correctly at the data that is presented with this with the PLC project schools of cohort one which is our eleven schools versus the non prod that project schools which are what they're one thousand thirty six so if you take a ten point score a test or quiz and you miss one that's ten points where you have a one thousand thirty eight point test quiz and you miss one that's just a fraction of that percent and then the sub tables that have the covert data from one to three that includes twenty seventeen versus twenty twenty one were not any schools in the cohort which in you mentioned that that that was baseline data for co what one there were not any schools participated in the project at that time and in twenty twenty one was post code it so that's where we and then when you look at that we have when you have the schools we had one school that probably fifty percent of their students were virtual that year so when they have a twenty percent drop in that school versus their their on site instruction versus of their virtual instruction when you have a twenty percent drop in one school and you're comparing that with ten schools it's gonna bring it all down so what I look at it and we've got the the data this is not just when we look at the effectiveness of the program we look at other than ACT aspire data we make sure that we look at and and I've got information that will show you to on the things that happen such as main street visual whether special ed referrals dropped significantly Senate Ballman NO one interview where you had several who referred for special ed and then it dropped but just look at that data yes we did have that data and we have responded and then and you'll see that died in the data that was submitted I believe you got that we several of Senate and and bring to Senate also to Michelle. The alarm on the data that compares the some of the data. Well thank you for that response and I feel like it's a bit tortured as far as it almost feels like we're trying to get to where we want to be and when it's a hundred million dollars I think We need to take the blinders off and look at the facts and as far as the some of the data I had to go find it myself and I watched I went back and watched some of the previous meetings education meetings that dealt with this for folks came to testify and I wasn't a member now that data was there are no people ask for it now it wasn't presented now and I think earlier in this was in January members in December I think maybe of December when we had that I didn't I didn't make it to a but there was a celebration breakfast to celebrate the success appeal C. was this data shared then. We did not go over the data at that time but there are several points of data that we look at because this is a completely culture change it is the process it's not the curriculum so we did not go over data we are celebrating little things such as written teacher retention which is not a little thing as we've looked at the reports this morning that's not a little thing when you have one school reports that since we started the process collaboration would not lost one teacher because the collaboration makes as part of that team weren't powering of the teachers with that and then we look at other data such as the special ed referrals because we're looking at kid by kid skill by skill we're changing education from years that things have happened so just like Secretary key said earlier to this is not going to happen overnight we're changing the culture of how you're looking at student learning and how you're responding to that student learning of so right now those celebrations may be we do have several celebrations within the academic piece but it may not show reflected all of the ACT aspire specially coated like I said we've only got two schools I mean two cohorts at about that this process and both of them were impacted with COVID. Just a couple more questions on the Q. and I'm probably stay out in fairness all the schools were packed with COVID and all the variables there would've gone gone across the board now I noticed something then when they were going to their presentation they reference to statute that in. So the purpose behind PLC's and I think it's and professional development not PLC's and it was I believe to designed to measure and improve academic performance and yet it seems like that's the one thing the purpose that not to the side and and until we just drag it out it's we just haven't talked about we talked about things are a lot harder to measure just poke people's feelings one last thing. Are you aware that many of the and the teachers and people who work commence Lucien tree comes in that they hire many of these teachers to go out any other B. lecturers facilitators whatever they call it to train people to go to different seminars or to write books solution tree sells a lot of books and facts appears that we are buying a lot of their curriculum here for the for the state are you aware of that and you take that into account when we do when we asked those teachers for their input do we ask. It has as solution tree hired you to don't go to be a conference Speaker or facilitator trainer I yes the were using a lot of those as we continue to grow the working scallop the work we are using twenty five of our own practitioners to scale the work so you're looking at information on just the project schools but if you look at and I know you can't read this but if you look at this is what the Legislative this is what project's goals but down below this is how we've grown it and we've got twenty five twenty two thank you Arkansas practitioners in Arkansas leading fifty two schools right now that are not they don't have anything to do with solutions right there they've gone through three years of the process they understand the process and now they're sharing network with other schools so that's how we're scaling up the working use and that's practitioners and yes I pass thank you president and and ask them to present more than eighty and help support our other schools not in the project thank you for the information appreciate your answers and I just think that maybe my taxpayers maybe your all's two might after hearing these presentations a maybe we should not be increasing funding in membership actually looking going the other direction I sure wish we would've looked at this before the the ref the recommendation apparently to Legislative Council perhaps they'll look at this but I know they're not sitting in these meetings that's what concerns me thank you. Your question about PD and how many hours it was we cut that back a few years ago and everybody screamed to high heaven including a couple sitting right in front of me that wanted more PD back and so we got it back to where it was and so that was the reason they want more PD hours for the teachers so that wasn't that we didn't think they needed or didn't we were trying to cut it back to save some money on something there so we've got that back you know for you that are celebrating what you think PC's are failing they are not failing we believe they are doing fine and you just it takes time it's not going to it's not going to happen overnight we still or in different cohorts are still you know still in the learning process a lot of it is going to change overnight no it's not it's going to bring scores up is not going to do a lot of things but you know it's it's working and we believe it's working I believe it's working I would not be so on board with it but I know there are some skeptical of it so we're trying to make that work so I will go on to four I talk too much to representive all. Thank you Mr chair in and I'm hoping that you'll stay at the table also but I need to know who the non PLC's schools were that you used for the data did you use the thousand and something schools or did you use a specific amount of schools and if it was for where they from for this data to compare. So the non PLC's goals it was anyone else in any other schools public schools that were in that program in the PLC program hello we didn't we thought it we were worried about picking schools out of having putting any by answer B. intersubjective what that so we kept the group as that way so in other words I would think she is correct if one PLC school doesn't score high. And you've got a thousand other schools in the other category it would dramatically change this. The scoring here or the percentages here am I correct. I can't speak to that specifically I know that we look specifically at student level percentages okay but I I couldn't speak to to that all right and I and I did have that same question she brought it up you'll use two thousand and seventeen home we did not have cohorts in two thousand and seventeen can you explain to me why we use two thousand and seventeen school year when there weren't any cohorts that was our base here so. And that was the last year for that all of the that word there is no P. O. C. school at in anywhere so some cohort started later so their base you're technically was little difference there in varying levels within the program but twenty seventeen was the last year that nope there is. Right and yes the base your at. Yeah NWA as well okay and then I just have a couple more why did we use just three pence principles and one facilitator to do the analysis what it we use more than just three principles sure and one facilitator so um that was born out of a member request and at the time we talk and. Comment we had two different cohorts at the time that we try to contact and we were trying to would I call three six different schools three return my call so those are the three that ended up. The film interview we try to get we want to have a simple enough that was represented enough but we are only able to get three responses back on that and my last question Mister chair and I'll get out at the non PLC schools that were surveyed how many of them are actually implementing their own PLC's within their school districts they're using their own funds to implement because we do know we have lots of schools that are now using their own PD funds to implement PLC's because they're seeing such great success in schools around them and so I want to know of how many of those that were surveyed are actually doing their own of funding towards professional learning communities I'm not a I'm does he knows that but I don't have I don't have that information I would like to have that information thank you. Representative stringer. Thank you thank you Mr chairman only a few questions. I'm happy to see that of there is a process called program effectiveness in that analysis so I'm happy to hear that thank you and my first question I have two or three Mister chair my first question is. B. R. B. O. R. analyses and then I see of program evaluation so can you tell me what's the difference between analyses and a program evaluation so the two houses were done by us so that we those are born out of member request and we just either in a lot was qualitative that the first one second one was quantitative the program evaluation was done by education northwest that's a separate organization that works to solution well I think solution tree to date the full program evaluation that was completely separate from my stated the violation was larger in scale than what we were so did their information include qualitative and quantitative data as well they had so there is yes there were survey data from teachers and educators in the staff there were I think they did interviews and focus groups with solution tree staff with administrators I think other relevant stakeholders as well as at there was test score data in that mix and I looked at all the different documentation and materials training materials that were used so yours was mainly qualitative in the end there was was based they use qualitative and quantitative is that what I'm hearing aid one qualitative that was in for twenty nineteen when there was no quantitative data available yet in a quantitative that we did not we strictly looking because we only had access ACT aspire scores final question do you have actually the hard copies of the information that that that was of of secured in order to make the report so I guess I'm asking the question do you actually have a copy of your report your full report that you did well of you qualitative data and then the report from the education northwest do you have that full report rather than the summary that you've given if so I would like to get a copy of your report. And a copy of the education northwest report so that I can read it in depth and understand exactly what took place because with this limited information I'm not quite understanding how you have that the conclusions that we have in the I'm able to look at all the data I think I'll have a better understanding of what's being reported here thank you so I can send you a link to the education northwest report and I can send you am are summary of the qualitative the survey questions that we asked to those three different schools and I personalities I can send you the summary what those responses were for each of those schools and questions I wanna be clear we're not making any conclusions one where the other about the effects of the program those were just our data showed thank you Mr chair this kind of information could be used across of what's taking place here with respect to education ago adequacy program effectiveness analyses and program evaluations if we able we're able to get persons to provide this kind of information that will be helpful in determining whether or not programs that are being implemented are effective or not and whether that we should continue those programs that that's just my comment and that's the way I see it having the been involved in program evaluations over the past twenty years I would say thank you representative injury a Mister spex help me understand to make sure I have a grasp on this compared to data. So let's let's say hypothetically a school in my district and they're in their first year the Cold War since you're one and they're going to introduce this at the ninth grade level. We're gonna take ninth graders and that's the first group that this PLC committees going to conform and they're going to work on these ninth graders. And so that your one. And then a couple years later BLR is going to look at some comparative data. And they're gonna look at okay here was these ninth graders and here's what they score on the ACT aspire in two thousand seventeen a couple years later this PLCE has been in place at the school district. It's still ninth grade that that that they're working on. And so in two thousand nineteen these ninth graders take the ACT aspire after two years of this school being a PLC school. And so this data that I believe you're showing us is the ninth graders in two thousand seventeen. And the ninth graders in two thousand nineteen is that correct. So it's not great specifics so each school that doesn't third it's for the whole school or for the whole district no but you but you just agree with representive all that there are a lot of schools out there in the state who are seeing success from this that are using their own money. To put in this type of programming and so we don't necessarily know if it's a school wide or if it's great selected the reason that I ask that is because I know in my district back home that's what we did we started with one group and that was our ninth grade students that was the first we have but it's called a freshman academy and they were the first ones to implement this model and they said we want to start making a difference in students when I hit ninth grade so they adopted the PLC model. And work on that group of students and so that group of students take the ACT aspire and boom you've got a score for that group students what you don't have is the progress that those students and make in tenth grade eleventh grade in twelfth grade because you're not comparing that it's not comparing apples to apples in this case should be comparing grade to grade. I think there's a whole lot more this program just to test score because I can tell you there back in my district the teachers saying we're changing lives we're making a difference in the life of the student and that the reaping of that nurturing is coming when they hit tenth grade eleventh grade twelfth grade so I would be curious to see if our data in any manner is just comparing I know you're saying that that you're looking school to school. Okay we'll both but are we actually tracking student growth rather than just great growth thank you. So when I try to answer all the questions and. So we can't count on that are we can account for and how other schools are implementing peel season what are what that looks like so of course act the impact we can account for that as an yeah and. Additionally this is student level data as again as I noted earlier we don't have access to any other school they did not be used at the school level determine growth so as as as as far as we're able at this point said take that analysis and I was that's or at right now. President officer thank you Mr chair thank you and the all of you so much for that and and I'm gonna speak as someone who is supportive of PLC's and solution tree and and I've I've been an advocate for a while but as an educator myself and then now it's legislator but also someone who's a little bit alarmed by this study and I will say that I think you know the methodology is sound and I think your your research is good and I'm appreciative of that but also Dr Ali to your point that I think are valid as well there are additional metrics that I think are worth looking at and celebrating as well and so I guess my question is kind of two part for for each each of you first and you know I noticed you you talk about student level data and I think that that's fine to have utilized in this study but it's also to Achievement data that the number of students who are achieving ready or or exceeding as a team and I'm wondering if your methodology is replicable easily replicable replicable enough to run it again using growth data I'm just curious to know what what that would look like especially in this cohort model where we're seeing you know over a period of years if. If achievement data if there's another metric that we can look at using your same methodology and look at growth in addition to looking at achievement just that that's one kind of research next step that I'm curious about I'm if I know that was an extensive study but it if it is easy enough to do I would love to see just kind of how those numbers shake out growth wise and then you know Dr wily to eat to the things that you thought about the things that that we're seeing both qualitatively and an additional metrics both in you know teacher preparedness and and reading this and I'm feeling supported in student behavior all these other things I do think it would be important because this committee and and those of the members of the committee have been skeptical have really been begging for data I think it would be helpful especially now that we've seen a report that is. That that should cause us to be more critical even though you know in general I'm supportive I think it's important that we continue to be really and then Dylan about looking at data I think it would be helpful to have more frequent reports from the Department about some of those other metrics that we're seeing yes based on the bill are per report with this particular metric of student achievement data we didn't see any change but what we're seeing in our research is improvements in these metrics but I do think that you know certainly back to to represent mackenzie's point at the end of the day it really is about student achievement and so my big kind of winding point here is that I think we absolutely need to value the other metrics that we are seeing improvement in and I think I'll be helpful to have more data more reports about the improvement there. But also. Ultimately we want that risk to result in improved student achievement and so for saying it's gonna take time we you know it doesn't happen overnight I agree with that yes that ultimately need to be our goal and we do need to be able to see see results and growth and improvement achievement. Whenever we finally say we're at the end of that road and it is no longer overnight it's now time to look at the deliverables of of improvement so I don't you question but it is that is that something you can commit to you in in providing us the divisional. Research. Based on the metrics and the growth that you're seeing and then on the bill are stating it would be possible to C. M. and if not it's okay but just is that You saying achievement it would be possible to see a similar result using rest at. Thank you. Yes I absolutely would welcome the opportunity and I will use the though what we metrics that we do use as far as the continuance because we look at several different things I'll make sure that we do that now present that to you One Harvard often that you wanted and I do wanna take to just of one of the questions that were asked I know within here are or how many of the schools are on the move for reward schools so in cohort for I'm cover one there were only nine schools and one district and three of those were on the move the one with the reward so there's four out of nine ten schools and then on the cohort to there are two on the move in for on the rewards so it shows and that data so. They are moving their moving that I will absolutely welcome that opportunity to present additional data and celebrate because the green on the report even though you know just the discussion the green that did appear on those tables in the report did come from the PLC project schools I whatever grain Martha's table so it shows that the uptick is happening within the SPLC project schools some. In response to the growth measures are some growth measure data available we can certainly look into see if that's something we can replicate similar manner thank you all so much thank you Mr. Robson makes thank Mister went on I to a strong supporter of the PLC so I've seen first hand my schools the difference that they from mate and I'll number four checks the one of my schools was not getting rewards but after PLC they works has been getting rewards so that tells me that something is going right there academically question I have actually has nothing to do with PLC's DO you had mentioned on one of the slides that roughly it was eleven percent of teachers or considered ineffective teachers I'm wondering if you have a definition for that. Well what is an ineffective teacher did I see that you're right there average of an effective. Okay so okay so can you define what an ineffective teacher is and then what and this may be a department question what is done to try to make them effective do we do training do we dismissed from house I had also I guess the question is how do we define effective then the questions of maybe to the Department is how do we handle the effective. This was one because of one percent of those thousands of teachers one percent the big number so. I don't have that definition with me but I can certainly get that for you okay can you give us a ballpark idea of what we're talking about. In terms of what in effective right means one hold it to you but just give us a general understanding of what that is. It's not the Senate definition that we define as it does it might be better able to answer that question Senate is there someone for the department who can help us with the all what and effective is and how we handle ineffective. No so is that something I can handle today or answer now or is that something you ought to get to us. I see checking has sought yesterday or actually get to list list we got we're we're trying to get out here but twelve can we get that to you that's what yeah let's give it to him let me a lot okay we are we got another committee this coming in today so we need to laugh what group right here US or just fill yes. Thank you Mr chair. Since we're talking about other metrics that might go in to determining success or non success what factors. Are going toward determining whether schools are A. B. C. D. or F. schools what are the metrics that go into that. That's determined by the divisions I would defer to them and to better answer that question what could I get that from them at a later time since we are pressed for time thank you to your they can email it to you what that they can either email it to your liking get it to you at a later date I'm sure they can get it you know that are later date all right thank you just say this team learning is not a new concept it has worked if one child has the same English math science social studies teacher it is shown that it works is not to any of our advantage to rejoice that something fails we do want to know if it's working thank you. Okay next meeting is may the. Second and third we'll be hearing education programs learning expectations career tech education and education programs Alie ESA he L. L. SPD waivers. So that's what we all may so see you then we are adjourned.