Public Health, Welfare and Labor Committee - Senate

And get to some business if we can get through everything as much as we can today than there will be no meeting Monday morning okay so let's try to do all we can this morning and and then I hopefully will be concluded concluding of our business and public health we're gonna start right at the top with senator Payton and it members Senate bill five one is the shell bill which is going to be withdrawn from consideration it is what I'm told so the bill that we will be looking at is Senate bill five of five zero eight Senate bill five zero eight if you'll just state your name for the record and then you're recognized. Senator Peyton District twenty two. Good morning members for **** you being down here on Friday morning. Senate bill five oh eight who's going to be dealing with waste tires. And I gotta start with just a little bit of a story I know we're all busy we're here late at night and I live out in the country and have all my life and we don't have trash service where you can carry your trash down to the curb I have to deal with it myself and so being busy like we've been for the last couple weeks have been thrown in the back of a pickup trucks in there to house and I haven't had a chance to haul it to the car lot in the dumpster. Seventy. I told my wife I said list drive the truck the church so that I have signed don't the trash you know we go to go to town put it in the dumpster but we go to church after church we had home totally forgot that the trash is in the back of the truck. Get all realize I forgot to go by the car lot and dump it long story short shorter I go out to get the car and head down here awhile ago you know what that trash is still in the truck. It will not deal with the self. And so I got to think about this tire issue and we've been. Posted about it. For. Six or eight years now that I've been down here and it's not going away and. You know there's been I wanted to do this and I know there's there's definitely spirit among my colleagues would love to just wash our hands of it. And you say you know let's not worry about it and but it's not going to go away there was a problem with people. Dumping tires on the side of the road still is a little bit of a problem not there like it used to be but the solution that the. Was brought to the table many years ago before we got down here. Was it we would charge a fee on every new tire sold. And we would use that money to make the disposal of those tires basically free at the point of disposal for the public. And so. Well it's painful to pay the fee at any point. as a government I think we're much more successful to charge a fee on the front end when was the when the new tires sold. Then we are to try to charge it on the backend when the tires being processor disposed of. Because that. Because people tend to not deal with the problem and the tires are going follow up somewhere and these tires do not degrade your committee composed or break down the other gonna be wherever they're going to be for a long time if you don't. Process some turn him into some sort of by product that is usable and so we have. A great industry in Arkansas that deals with processing these tires. But they can't do it for free it all they've got huge. Very unique machines to deal with straighten and destroying these tires but those machines are expensive the maintenance is expensive the labor and then transporting the tires cost money so what happened was the fee that had been placed on the new tire sales ended up not being enough. To pay for the transport and processing ever last for five years down here we struggled with that fact that we're not collecting enough and so one solution that came to the table a few years back was that well we'll start taxing used tires to. And of course that hasn't turned out to generate the revenue that was expected to because people quit shuffling used tires they just decided. instead of dealing with all of the all of the regulations and an electronic logs and everything on the used tires will just go ahead and trade on what the best way to recycle a tire is to put it on another vehicle in where it out. Most of the people who buy new tires are doing that really before the set on their car is completely worn out. And then there are my friends and neighbors that live in rural Arkansas the like to buy those used tires and get that last ten or twenty thousand miles out of them before you throw away. If if you disrupt the logistics and the infrastructure of that used tire resale market. Then not only did not collect the fee on it and you start processing those tires but your your process in tires is still have life left in them so you're going process more tires you know so it's a problem that compounds itself. We have a huge. Number of new tires that are sold that were not collecting the fee on and that it comes to my world I've been a new car dealer of any used car dealer and You know when we sell a new car there's four or five tires involved in that transaction new tires it could be a one ton truck with six tires on those fees have never been collected on those new tires but those tires are going to have to be destroyed at some point they're going to be processed new trailers are the same way they have tires on and we've never collected the fee. So what we did is we collected that fees on a portion of of percentage of new tires but we still had to process and and go to the expense of dealing with all of the tires when they're worn out and So my bill one of the first things I want to start off with it a lemonades the tax on used tires eliminates the rim fees on used tires we want to encourage. Those used tires to change hands get mounted on the other vehicle and get worn out before we have to process. So we're eliminating that tax that feeling used tires. We're broadening the base that we collect the new fee on the new tire fifty. Not only are we going collected on new tires that are sold at the tire shop but on new cars and trucks passenger cars and trucks and new trailers at the point of registration so when you go to pay the sales tax on your new vehicle or your new trailer there's going to be twelve or fifteen dollars or so so three dollars per tire. That will be collected at that point just as if you bought those tires at the tire shop that way were collected a fee. Probably not on all new tires but at least he'll be getting a lot closer. Two hundred percent of the new tires we have super. Pay for the processing we have to pay for the transporting and. The. She. Is it is the only way that we demonstrated that we want to pay for that now we could put general revenue into this program but I don't think we want to do that so I hope you know we're broadening the base of where that three dollar fee is collected then you have large and extra large tires they cost more to process and we've always had a little bit larger fees until two years ago on the large tires. An extra large tires can cost. If if if we weren't trying to handle it in this program they can cost a hundred dollars or more to process per tire. So. The agriculture business. Has had an exemption on big tractor tires and stuff like that you've got a large construction equipment and things that have these huge tires it cost a lot. The fifty that we've been collecting on the new tires. Has already been paid in for the processing of those extra large and large tires along the way. But. We're not collecting anything and in the cases where we do collect some on those large and extra large tires were not collected near what it costs to process on. So in my bill we're creating for waste tire accountability zones I think is the the title we finally came up with. And those boards will be made up of county judges and mayors within the four zones four quadrants of Arkansas. They will have the authority my bill gives that board the authority to set the fees on large tires up to seven dollars and fifty cents. And on extra large tires up to thirty dollars. Farm bureau didn't like this but they have come on board because I know we have to deal with the problem and they said they're not gonna oppose the thirty dollars on the on the big tires so we're not only broadening the base on on collecting on the new tires by doing it on new vehicles and and new trailers but we're also will be collecting from. Those large tires that we've never collected anything on before now we're not collecting near what it cost to process or. If we went to a free market system and you had a tractor tire and you went to dispose of it. It's going to cost you in the hundred dollars plus range. To deal with that per tire. This is going to take cap that at thirty dollars. On the large tires like you have on semis and things like that I mean you would be paying twenty or thirty dollars on that this book that disposal in a free market system this is gonna be capped at seven fifty so the money is still going to have to. Cross boundaries the passenger cars and trailers and and the passenger car and truck tires are still the three dollars are still going to be. subsidizing the large and extra large tires. So into the boards in the zones we have several great processors in the state of Arkansas and we've traditionally had a lot of tire districts and zones and different things. I wanted to try to get that simplified as much as possible if you were here last year you found out what happened we had eleven tire districts they submitted business plans. D. EQ approve the business plans. The business plans if you just added the bottom line totaled way more money than was projected in revenue. And so we ran and we ran halfway through fiscal year found out there was enough money to pay the Piper and We can't have that and and I understand the issue is really good environmental regulation and enforcement things like that they're not accountants so we're gonna be asking the FNA. To monitor it but instead of eleven business plans are going have for from each water and basically there's you can look at the county's them the map would divide Arkansas pretty much just four quadrants whole counties no no divided counties within that each quadrant they'll be seven county judges in five mares on the board the tire accountability board for that quadrant The two county judges from the two most populous counties in the in the zone. And then five judges that are elected from among the judges of those on and then five mayors that are elected from among the members of those on. And they will be charged with the responsibility of looking at the at the money that you've forecast to come in. And forming contracts with processors. Public or private processors to make sure that they these tires get transit connected transported into the processor and the. We can negotiate. The the best price possible with that processor now you know the good news is. These by products are becoming more and more usable and then the band we have some big steel plants are hoping in the future to be able used tire derived fuel. We want the flexibility for these boards to make the decision down the road. Of where the tires are going to be process so. The one for the state of Arkansas is a pretty big area. Transport is one of the biggest expenses in this one of the biggest components and what it costs to deal with these tires. That board can decide okay the southern end of of the district we're going to ship. To central Arkansas for processing the northern end of the district we're going to ship. Two of. Northeast Arkansas hopefully we get a processor it in there at some point As a new processor might come into the state Arkansas they should have the flexibility to utilize that processor if somebody can come in and set up and start doing the tire derived fuel we have a. We have a couple of businesses that that would be in demand for they should have these boards should have the flexibility to be able to utilize that. So. This bill establishes. In the neighborhood of three to four million dollars in new revenue. To to help pay the expense and deal with the problem. It then establishes these four quadrants and the boards to govern how those tires are going to be this put disposed of in process we do not want want these tires land filled and stockpiled that's what's happened with my garbage at the house is getting stockpiled until I get there and get time to haul it off. We can't do that is a state folks we have to deal with this problem it's it's not gonna go away if we try to wash our hands of it and say. Privatize it. A citizen defined that it's going to cost him a hundred and thirty dollars to process to tractor tires is just. Each the to process to tractor tires it just took off and replaced those tires are going back to the farm he's not paying a hundred and thirty dollars get them processed he got somebody's running enter for semi trucks up and down the road and and it's going to cost them couple three hundred dollars to dispose of the tires that come off when they put new tires on. Those tires are going to hold back to the shop filed in the back corner breed mosquitoes. For a couple of the out we're not dealing with the problem if we try to wash our hands of it and say okay. Just let it be privatized. If if we just leave it alone or with the existing program that we've had in place for years. We need general revenues. We need. Thirty four million dollars a general revenue to be put into that program in order to keep it viable. This solution says instead of collecting three dollars on part of the new tire sold Arkansas we're going collected on all the new tire sold in Arkansas. Instead of. ignoring the fact that a large tire costs a lot more. To process we're gonna let these boards set the fee up to seven dollars and fifty cents all large tires. And up to thirty dollars on a extra large tires. I'll take questions we have a lot of experts in the room a lot at stake holders here that we want to give you the good the bad not ever. I started working on this last summer whenever things got bad in the current program. We start working on a really hard in January to get all the stakeholders agreed I'm proud to say that the Municipal League the county judges have have supported this idea there's there's the parts of it that they don't lie. And I think you may want to as the FNA some questions because honestly there's parts of it they don't want to deal with but I'm asking the accountants in DNA the the the FNA they can forecast revenue. To look at those business plan to make sure that we're not. Making contracts and spending money that we don't have forecast to come in and I think the FNA is to the proper. People to do that I probably have not gotten into the weeds there is much. As what. Needs to be done but I know the. You all want the big picture I will let you ask me and and the experts any of the details you need to know to get down in the weeds. So with that I'll stand by for any questions. Thank you other questions from the members of the committee senator Boyd you're recognized for a question I'll be quick and I know you've answered this but I'm just gonna ask it specifically really I'm just gonna stay it surprises me of everybody here that you would not be for privatization of something so could you just one more time reiterate what what you're thinking and why the government needs to do this other than the pro RK thank you and I appreciate the fact that you perceive means to be that way because honestly I'm a fair market I'd love to see a privatized. But I don't okay the them to do this way I live out in the country. I've not dealt with my garbage for two weeks it's stacking up. It's it's driving me nuts and I'm going to get it this weekend to the dumpster. But I have neighbors out in the country. That don't deal with their problems. And you can drive by their place and see their problem it's been building for years I don't want Arkansas to be that. I don't want Arkansas to be that neighbor that just let it pile up I hello privatization and and I love the free market system. It is when you look at the reality of what. Each individual citizen is gonna have to decide when they go. Put new tires on. And they're faced with co pay to go pay at the dump to dump these tires. A lot of our neighbors are not going to pay that fee the tires ago Apollo. I'm gonna follow up with that question When it comes to wastin five. The I guess the resources that we use I mean as a government and historically we have trash pickup within city limits we have recycling pickup within semi limits I mean to a degree is that I mean the role of government really I've heard you talk about this because you are strict about this but the role of government is really about our infrastructure and providing like basic infrastructure for our citizens and public safety and health and welfare that's that's part of this committee but I mean I I think government kind of moved in this space because of the exact problem that you're describing about trash being just piled up everywhere which does absolutely become a public health issue and concern for citizens I mean we can we can go back in history and talk about you know diseases and things that that spread because of the result of trash being at not dealt with and so the government has had to step in as a as a kind of a necessary function in order to solve the problem and try to read it the disease of of of different types of diseases that we know that are carried by rats and things like that I mean we can go all the way back to European history but I mean so do you do you feel like there's a difference here because this is an issue and a problem that actually government has historically stepped into to resolve I definitely feel like this subject comes under the realm of what government can do better than the private and and what government should do there's a long list of things that I would put on a list of things government should not be doing that we are doing but within this example and I made these arguments six years ago. The tax what you want to eliminate. Or discourage. So if the tax is placed on the proper disposal. Then you're discouraging the proper disposal. The whoever dreamed up the idea of collecting it when you when you buy the new tire I think it was a great idea. And I think it worked really well until inflation made the cost of dealing with those tires more than what we were collecting. When it comes to the used tires and we put a tax or room fee on the distribution and resale and and further use of those used tires we discouraged the further use of that tire what will put. Regulations and licenses on people who would transport those tires from point a were they came off to the point be were were the rule Arkansas needs to use that used tire we discourage that and so. I think this is an area that justifies government involvement I think somebody that came before me had a great idea and collecting the fees on the on the new tire sold. I think we have to. Address our responsibility as legislators to set that fee. And where it's collected at a level that will deal with the necessity of processing these tires and that's what I've seen sought to do in the in this bill. I don't want to raise a fee. That's why I think it's more fair to collected on every tire instead of just part of the tires why would we collect the feeling eighty percent of the tires and let the other twenty percent. Go Scot free. Why would we expect the passenger car and truck tires to pay for the tractor tires. You know I'm I'm trying to set within the framework of this bill and and the law. The most fair system that I can dream up and and I've had a lot of help. People educate me on on this process over the last three months and and I'm sorry it's the last minute bring this bill to you but it. It needs more work. And that's what these tire accountability zones it will have to do that's what those boards are going have to. Is is work out the rest of the details but we've left them the latitude to be flexible to find the most efficient way to deal with the tires and hopefully we've we've built the revenue in here to where they can do that. Is there is there direction of the revenue as it goes to all towards the the collection of the tires the transportation of the product tires and the disposal of the tires like is there an administrative fee or anything that's capped by these boards. I'll have to let somebody else speak to that yes there's seven percent I think that comes off the top for DQ or something there had been and is an administrative fee that we let the tire dealers keep fifteen cents out of the fee this eliminates that but it does let allow the tire dealer to charge. Up to Ten percent I think over the fee. I know the tire dealers. In my area that I've dealt with for years probably are not going to that I mean I don't think the fifteen cents ever mattered to them either but it is there for a tire dealer to charged ten percent so it's at three dollars they could charge three dollars and thirty cents and keep thirty cents of it for their administrative portion what about the boards themselves so that you creating of the four zones what about those boards and to they keep any money the money flows through them follows through them but they don't know that okay they'll be turning in a business plan okay on how much per tire basically it's going to cost them to transport and and deal with it or whatever contracts they form with the processor The FNA will need to look at those business plan see if they fit the forecast revenue and if that makes sense I'm not asking the FAA to say yes or no on whether a district buys a truck or trailer to transport the cars I mean that's not what it's about it's about the forecast revenue and expenditures expenditure being less than the forecast revenue and the fair distribution of the revenue that comes in statewide to the four districts based on the volume of tires in and that this sense that they're having to transport the tires and things like that okay I did put in here. That legislative audit will audit shall audit each on every other year so it's only one and three the odd numbered zones would be audited in odd number years and two and for the even numbered zones will be audited in even numbered years and that's where we've got to make sure that they're being responsible with their money okay and then any existing assets from the existing boards would they be consolidated into these new boards if they have vehicles or tippers or anything like that. So that's going to be tricky and and the school has to be worked out down the road and here's why. Zone number two northeast quadrant does not even have a processor and okay so geographically the way my zones are laid out here. the processor location and equipment stuff was not necessarily. Evenly divided among the four zones okay. So that's something that's going to have to be worked out okay thank you senator boy. I'm trying to be quick but I did it is important issue I got some questions so we all know the community from which I have had some issues with raising rates on sewer and then keep up so. Do we believe this board of elected to locally elected people we believe they will have the gumption to raise rates and do what they need to do to make sure that we're collecting the revenue needed well I'll say this publicly. I would expect to each board to adopt the cap seven fifty for the large and thirty dollars for the extra large that is still less than it cost to process those tires. And we're set in the cap I would love to see. Aboard that finds a way to do it at a lower rate. I would love ten years down the road five years down the road for there to be enough demand for the by products that now people want to buy the tires instead of us paying them to process them but. Just realistically speaking and I'll say this in public. I'm fairly certain that all four boards are going to adopt the seven fifty in the thirty. But again there's their locally elected locally accountable. Of people just like our ourself and I think the biggest responsibility is not in setting the fee but in an. Finding the most efficient ways to transport and Process these tires. All right Senator Solomon you're recognized for a question. Thank you against all those fees are just to your two years long as we can come back in two years and change those captives Mr that's exactly right thank you well thank or to the special session I guess it may not even be that low. Thank you well that's right I mean we could come back every year of necessary if you find out some of the things you say we need to study or look at down the road we come back we can adjust this plan is the starting point to have a good solid starting point we'll just those fees if necessary thank you thank you. Okay are there other questions from members of the committee. R. eight C. nine that we have people here to speak. For and against the bill will go to Lauren Ballard. And Bailey Taylor feel both come to the table. Good morning I think it's morning lost track of time. At large Ballard and I and the chief legal counsel for the department of energy and environment. A retailer a social environment administrator for the department of energy and environment. Thank you we're here to speak on behalf of the department of energy and environment and to and that give our thoughts on the bill we certainly appreciate attempts to address this program but we have some concerns that the biggest concern of course is the fee increase and I think Senator Rapert was very transparent about that it is a feat the increase I want to explain to the Committee though to the extent that the increase that you have an idea of course and the administration is against any fee increases so it's important that we and explain how that's going to work so first either will be obviously an increase and it does remove it on used tires that is I believe that's correct since it's no longer rim removal fee but it's being imposed on different kinds of tires now including your trailer tires on new trailers at and I think just on trailer new trailer Charlie ocean General I believe light duty vehicles golf carts lawn mowers that's our tires that previously were exempt it is not even being considered a tire under this program will now have that fee applied to them there will be any position on the new cars as senator Payton at indicated so when you go to register your vehicle now you're gonna have a new line that collects that fee from our purchasers of cars they're gonna have to pay three times for the three times for tires and then if there's a spare they're gonna have another three dollars for that so it does broaden the base quite a bit on the tires is going to apply to at from the new tire perspective. The other thing is it is actually an increase that fee I think Senator Payton indicated towards the end of his testimony the way the program works now it is AT three dollar one dollar fee and they get to keep a portion of that the retailers I believe that to keep a portion of that to. Compensate them for their hard work and effort collecting that money in the future under this bill they would be allowed to charge up to ten percent over and above the three dollars sixty radically that three dollars will go to three thirty at now they can choose Senator Pitsch correct they can choose not to collect that and but this does extend to retailers online at large retailers individuals who may want to charge that extra thirty cents and and put that in to a reduce their bottom line so that the increase of courses is a large concern for us and granted that thirty dollar I think right now the large and extra large tires fall within the three dollar fee for the removal that will go to seven fifty or thirty that's the cap of course so that if they choose to go to the top in the Capitol to be dependent on how DF in a sense that under the bill but again at ten percent also applies to those so there's retailers would need to call or have the ability to collect at ten percent so that thirty three that could be a thirty three dollar fee for extra large tires from the retailer so that the increase is of course the biggest concern we have a number of other issues related to way the way that the bill is drafted any has some concern about the delineation of D. D. excuse responsibility and D. F. and H. responsibility and just clarity there's I believe a little bit of overlap and who's going to look at those business plans he's going to make sure that those are being operated appropriately so you know that that was a little unclear we had some the way that the funds are set up there were some language that also and I think for instance we froze the seven percent to the amount that we're going to the seven percent fee funds for DQ was present twenty twenty three levels so it was unclear what you do with the remainder of the money for that we go so it's just another example Yes the the tire haulers we will no longer permit the tire hollers and require that bond for them to transport this tire should they you know dump them somewhere we can pull that bond and remediate that side that's how it works now that's how it works now so under this bill that would not be a part of our procedures. so all the things he said again you know that the increase in the fee I think there's no question it would increase the amount of capital going into the fund but and you know we have concerns about making sure that you know that. The program goes effectively and sometimes more money does not necessarily solve that issue so I think that said. Summarizes my are are and be able. Senator Solomon. Thank you went to jail and gauge with senator Payton and work on this legislation and have him know you're opposed to it I think that was this morning I think the bill is filed two days ago so we we've been trying to prove that are all about six years ago I thank. The there's been working on for awhile yes you know it's hard to talk about the cost I didn't hear you talk about whether you college you senator Payton talked a lot about the problem at the waste and trash is just building and building and building you didn't address that. Fifty would you agree that the US of his assessment of the problem is accurate. There is a waste tires you no problem in Arkansas we do have waste tires and there are illegal dumps okay your solution would be. We we are specifically here to to talk about the differences in the bills and and any that's in the position to have the water talk about his problem but you don't have a suggested problem resolution to the problem out there because a senator is proposing that we get started on this and he's proposed this problem he acknowledged the problem is going to take some time to resolve. And I think we would be hopeful for a solution that would not result in the government increasing the fees on the general public that would be our position well I think you agree with that but he's in this go on and on for years without a solution and the private sector solution that. Administrations prior to yours have all said would be the private sector should resolve it in the private sector has tennis the senator a chair mentioned some point this is the government's responsibility to help solve these problems so yeah I think he's proposed a reasonable solution to get it started. Well and I guess my response that would be Senator Solomon is and it's not permit us now it is it is operated by waste our districts nine and this bill will rearrange the way that looks in the make up of that but that has been the solution for the. Several why I don't even know how long it that that's been can operate but is not up until now the privatization pointed however how will that work. Well I think that that I mean so I think I don't know that this bill addresses that problem I think this bill just puts more money into it and that may be the solution to maybe it isn't okay valid point as if that's what we get to vote on and after that yes thank you. Senator Boyd you're recognized for questions thank you madam chair so like I can't speak for the whole state but I can speak for my community the city directors if sent pictures of tire stacking up in front of tire stores so I know that's happening in my community and as we investigate as I did earlier in the session on my own it became clear that the state owns this issue and they can't do anything that they wanted to find people that wanted to do what they could and in fairness they didn't find people because the state is supposed to be taken care of this so I guess it and as I look in it well it's under funded so we're not gonna raise a fee would you suggest that we tap into general revenue to do this or or is it may be better that we we raise the fee on a specific thing I mean you have an opinion on that well I don't and as far as that in goes out I think there are some other solutions we probably need to look into when we need to I know there are other solutions floating right now so I think that and we have set out under the governor's given some support for the idea of the privatization a solution so I think that would be as another way to look at the problem. This point hope that. Okay will you open that door so let's go there okay and if you want to talk about the differences of the two bills we know that there's a completely you know there's a bill but my understanding is that would that not with that bill not keep a certain percentage of the money but for the state yes ma'am for abatement for abatement so well so what your what is your I mean we can go ahead and discuss that because I'm not sure I mean my understanding is this one or that one but do you want to I mean I know we're not debating that bill but my my question to you though is why should I buy I mean I do have tractors so I believe it's my responsibility to pay that fee to be quite frankly tractor tires are huge but why should Senator love who I assume may or may not have a tractor. Okay. Big John Deere tractor I mean Blake Johnson houses all that I'm sure on John Deere tractors that I guess my point is why should Senator love as a taxpayer the state of Arkansas subsidize my tractor tires because if we use state general revenue. And we do not collect user fees then the taxpayers of the state of Arkansas that are not owners of big John Deere tractors are subsidizing my tractor tires. So what and so at some point we really do have to have a fair discussion about what if the increase is and where it's appropriate and where it's not appropriate but I don't think it's fair for Senator loves to subsidize my tractor tires that that's my perspective as that's Missy Irvin center eleven perspective so could you I mean yeah can respond if you if you can but but to me. For instance if there is a you know a portal or a licensee's licensees they use that portal they use that system they have to pay fees for their licenses there's a lot of folks in here that are licensed healthcare professionals they have to pay those fees have to pay licensing fees they have to pay the portal in order to get their licenses updated renewed. I think that we need to be able to set appropriate fees for them to be able to use their systems I do not want to subsidize a behavioral health analysts licensure fee because I'm not one of those people my tax dollars that go to state general revenues should be different than that so can you you want to respond to that or you don't have to if you don't want to know I mean I I certainly would would say I mean there's there's going to be the privatization would be the preferred method I think that this that's the administration's position of opposition but at you know there's this bill at five oh eight it is the has broad spectrum of subsidization so I mean your spare tire you're gonna pay a three dollars fee on your spare tire you hopefully we'll never have to use that's going to subsidize some other part of this program as is the one that retire you're not putting on there you're going to pay that same three dollars on that on that small tires to subsidize the rest of the program your golf cart tire it cetera so there's I think under this program you're going to have quite a bit of subsidization in any event and there of course and you mention the privatization bill it does of course were holding back some money to deal with the. Abatement problem because obviously I don't think anybody has a solution I wish we did for bad actors because we're always going to have I was certainly happen now in this situation and in the non and then on privatized situation and we'll I mean there will probably be some there too and that's why we reserved some funds to deal with that problem but if you're concerned about you know the tractor tire being subsidized I think it's gonna happen anyway because and to Senator Pitsch pointed it probably gonna cost more like a hundred dollars or process that tire so I think that's that's going to happen under this bill as well. I appreciate the response any other questions do you would you have any other questions for the members of the committee. Thank you so much appreciate your being here. okay let's see we have for if they can both come to the table Duggar one and mark with more. Good morning committee and first of all I want to thank you all because we was down here waiting for last night and you know what child is kind of like getting a drink out of a firefighter ninety sure the people of Arkansas don't realize the fires the child to spend in putting down here and I know the last couple weeks is a it is very you know taxing on you my name is Doug or one of the local county judge I've been a judge for thirteen years this my thirteen year. And I'm the president of the county judge association. And so it are meetings we've been faced with this I know for the past thirteen years that I've been the. Judge we've been dealing with tires and the situation. And I think we'll be dealing with tires when Jesus comes. But I do support the county judges seventy five of us unanimously support center Payton's bill. Seventy five of us was oppose the privatization. Of the bill and there were concerns with all due respect for the governor and her position on this I mean we support are a hundred ten percent but I don't know that. I know that there's some issues. We is County judges. We're forced to by law more raise our hand take of to protect the the citizens of our county. And We. We're going to be faced with this problem. If it were to go privatization means it's been brought up here today We're still going to have the we're going to have a lot more tires in the ditch. And we have no choice the we have to go get a. And I think Senator patients bill you know there's been a couple comments made about the golf cart tires and everything you know. It should be fair for everybody I mean that tire still has to be disposed of whether it's a small tire or large tires. You know I've shared a comment and this is my favorite saying that you can't manage what you can't measure. And and I shared this with Mr Shaffer from the governor's office now and So I think what has happened over the years. I personally don't know how you get approve a plan on that you don't have enough money now in their defense. You know there was cost arose for diesel fuel for instance you know one nine diesel fuel skyrocketed. You know that the expense became more for the district's. But we know now that every seven months if you're eight hundred thousand dollars short. I know that that was what the bigger was last year in the fall. And I made a comment to the gentleman that You know Bennett represent the county judges in the districts were having trouble made a plan I don't know why you would approve a plan knowing that you don't have enough money start with. And so. I will let Mr Whitmore. Tell you what what work and I appreciate that Mr with more before you speak I think we're going to go to somebody who signed up to be against if that's okay and then I'll let you be for so that we can keep this Mr sorry and I didn't see this last page okay do you have any other comments. We do have a question for you senator void you're recognized for a question thank you manager just very briefly so again you have my question to senator Payton about locally elected people making decisions on fees so can you commit to me that you believe we can put these boards together were they will keep the fees where they need to be in great if we can cut them but not you know some some come to political will our political pressure to just have a a fee to low of fifty and then the whole thing that work again right absolutely because the this is a bigger problem for the county judges in these districts that it is even though we're all you know share the same problem absolutely I could. Tell you that all right. The Senator live here recognized for a question. Thank you thank you madam chair I heard that you were opposed to privatization the why would you be approach to privatization of this was tire program. Well I would submit to you that into the in the committee here that in ninety nine percent of the cases. Privatization can do a lot better job in hand of the business and government you know it just it just is what it is. But with the privatization. There's no regulations. You know I mean they can charge whatever they want to dispose of the tire. And the the citizens are just going to be at the mercy. Of that. Yes privatization. And I thank the state would have a lot bigger problem and they got now I go to privatization. And about that but I would submit to you that in normal cases. Because. Did they would do a better job in government. Thank you are there any other questions for members of the committee all right C. nine thank you so much and members and we're going to get to where we were two minutes now because we've been on this topic for since ten I mean for one hour and we've got lots and lots of bills still to get to so Mr Gehring if you want to. Come for please and then we'll go to Mr Whitmore. Bill state your name for the record you're recognized thank you madam chair Paul Goehring with D. F. thing I don't want to plow the same ground that miss Ballard did with the increasing of the fees but yes DFA is a is supposed to Senate bill five await for that same reason but I do have some additional information that I can share we don't have a final fiscal impact statement for this bill but we do have some information that we can share with committee in terms of what that additional fee might on the new vehicles in the trailers we do have an estimate that that the fee that would be imposed on those new vehicle purchases and trailers the new vehicle fees would be about two point three seven million in tire fees and then on the new trailers are estimate would be three hundred eighteen thousand dollars in additional fees that we we have been working on of a complete fiscal impact statement for Senate bill five oh eight we will provide it is seen as is is completed we apologize that is not ready for this morning's meeting but want to give you all of the information that we do have ready to share I'm happy to answer any questions concerning that information okay the only question I have is that we we have had last year last fall we did have to move some money to act what what was that figure how much money do we have to put in from state general revenue to to bolster this program if if Manafort could I could request that information and then come back up from I still have it here in front of me but I do recall at the end of the last fiscal year that there wasn't a required transfer for to make sure that they're responding for the reimbursements but I don't have the exact figure in front of me okay I think it was fairly large I mean I okay but I think that was due to the rising diesel costs and transportation is that correct I believe so yes ma'am okay Senator love your and recognized for a question this is so you just mentioned about two. One six two point seven million dollars that open new money yes top of the money that that it's already being collected that that would be the the our estimate of the fee when you purchase a new motor vehicle and have the three dollar fee on each tire that is equipped on the new motor vehicle or trailer okay so I guess here's a question do you have the figure on how much it costs to actually operate the program for a year. For this past year I do not I know that there was a legislative audit report that was completed here recently that had to the cost of all of the Indian individual tire districts okay and I actually have a pretty copy here so if so if you can get that information I mean that would deal with you get to see like what what we are sure I mean or is if if we're before spending two point seven a two point eight million dollars and were collected two point eight million dollars thank you Educated with Mr Stovall regarding that this bill I'm as he was going to the drafting process that is included in the bill is the business closure proof provision that was added I'm AT DFA's request currently we do have we have four point six million dollars in ways tire fees that are delinquent and so and of those that see half of those fees are for active accounts those are act actively businesses that are collecting if the the other half or cease to counsel we only assume that those businesses have closed so what that provision in this bill would allow DFA to do wouldn't administratively close those businesses if they are not going to be sending in the fees those fees are collected from customers of when the tires are removed from a vehicle but the fees are being kept by the by the collector of the fee I did want to say that we we appreciate that provisions being added that would be an additional source for us to collect the fees that are out there an outstanding. Subject questions Senator. What I mean I'm gonna jump in but isn't isn't that exactly a great reason why you should probably collected at the point of sale verses on the backend because of their uncollected for for over four million it is it is that fee is currently collected at the point of sale at that but it's quite characterize as a rim removal fee so when you're taking buying a new set of tires and then you're removing the old set it's collected at the retail level but the what so when that set of tires is sold the sales tax that's collected on the tires that are sold that is subject currently to business closure so if those said that sales tax is not sent in TFA could administratively closed out dismiss okay but the The rim removal fee is not subject to business closure this this bill does include that we do think that that is a very good idea okay to to make sure that the that we can get the fee okay perfect we're all gonna be experts on used tires Senate okay thank you any other questions from members of the committee C. nine thank you so much for your testimony Senator Flippo you're recognized here I move for me consideration motion for immediate consideration second all those in favor say aye opposed Is have it we will go to what is the pleasure of the Committee. Motion do pass second all those in favor say aye. And oppose ayes have it congratulations you've passed your bill. Okay. Senator dot Senate or going to your NAAQS this is a. At an amendment status I'll let you explain thank you madam chair members Senate bill four sixty five we heard the other day and after going to a committee the AG's office got with me and had a a couple of words changes technical corrections basically they've already been engrossed into the bill. So Since they were deleting a few words on a couple different lines it's it's hard to find them but I located the spots on the bill so The Amendment the leads on page two the words directly or indirectly on. Lines twenty one. And then delete the words affiliated online twenty two. sorry just for time say DHS thank you here. Can can you just come to the table. Can you state your name for the record please more quite a report reviewing services are you okay with these changes we are okay thank you you can close for your ideal I'm close if if you guys are ready to vote thank you what is there anyone here to speak for against this bill scene nine motion do pass second all those in favor say aye as amended no no no it's already been engrossed we're just concurring yes all those in favor say aye and oppose ayes have it Senate bill. Four sixty five passes. Okay we are going to house bill eleven eighty nine. Okay so members this did have an amendment that was already a put on the bill so when we at so this is aye house bill eleven eighty nine as amended. You may present thank you ma'am chair Kim Hammer state senator district sixteen. Nicole Clowney state representative district twenty one. Committee chair I think this bill is being debated in the committee for I think the jury members that are in here probably heard the discussion last time I'm not mistaken and the only thing I would say is that I thank and interpreting this bill it'll bring some accountability closer to home I respect for time madam chair having this this bill having been heard this committee before what questions I know there's some to signed up to speak against the bill maybe some for all deferred to the committee if you'd like to go right into questions and testimony. Yes it we we spent a lot of time on this bill so any any questions from the members of the committee on this. The questions right we're going to go straight to for and against I would prefer I know we have a lot of people signed up to speak against it so if y'all can just come to the table we will will try to get through you all real quick and but what we're going to limit debate here to probably one minutes per person. Without objection. R. two minutes will do to whatever but. Keep it brief please okay. Brandon Greenlee. If you want to okay and we we have heard from you already is that correct is there somebody here that we have not heard from yet. Okay if you all will come to the end of the table I just want to give these individuals the opportunity to to speak against. We haven't heard from them yet I don't think. Okay if you will just all four wheels as state your names for the records and then we will we'll we'll get to all your comments. I am she will Barnes I am a board certified behavior analyst doctoral level I am the owner of a small clinic in Fort Smith FOR autism and I retired last year as the founding director of the masters in applied behavior analysis at Ouachita Baptist university okay thank you. Hello my name is William Montgomery and I am a new BCVA I've been in practice for fourteen months and I'm also representing my company and to start up eighty eight company in Arkansas name bridge eighty eight. Okay. My name is Laurie Sims and I am a registered behavior technician I work in a clinic in in Springdale of providing ABA therapy to kids with autism have been there for nearly five years previously I worked at various clinics and in homes and schools doing this work for nearly twelve years. Okay and. A burning Greenlee I'm representing bridging autism services a nonprofit and as well as integrated learning consultants and autism service provider and and what this Arkansas as well. All right go ahead let's see will start with miss Barnes. Hi I have been in the field for many years and I move to Arkansas after retiring as a professor in Oklahoma and I move to Arkansas in twenty twelve when autism was first covered for a BA under and. A statute in Arkansas and in twenty sixteen aye the president of the Arkansas association for behavior analysis in twenty seventeen Jennifer Kirby was the president of our organization known as Arkansas office twenty eighteen Beth McKee was the president of Arkansas but in twenty nineteen to fifty Merlin Dr Tiffany Marley was the president of Arkansas okay. Can you just get to why you're against specifically to the bill we need to I had and that's impressive and we are so grateful for all the your experience that I want to know exactly what your post of the bill and that language in the bill and and what it does if you don't mind thank you. Beginning in or around twenty fifteen we began consulting and with outside experts including Dr Gina green and one thing that we were cautioned against is having a bill that would put certification licensure of the CPA's under a psychology board and they gave many reasons we've also talked to several of the leadership of the council for autism service providers and they bosses had the same warning to do not have a a licensure bill where we fall under the site board in my position is it would be better to have no licensure at all then to have a license that falls under the site board. Okay thank you so much Senator lab has a question for you Senator love you're recognized yeah I think I think we covered this. No will what is the reason I mean you don't wanna have a licensee just want your own borders subcommittee within the Department health is that is that is that the gist of it yes and the experts in the field and some authors of some papers that have been published in behavior analytic journals have talked about some of the things that happen in the states where the licensure fell under the site Ford and there's not enough time to go into all of those but there are numerous reasons why that is problematic okay we've not addressed and could we not interested in rules. What what are the concerns is representation on the sideboard and so if a board is governing behavior analysts and we have no representation or very little then those rules are going to be made by a profession that is almost the opposite in theoretical and philosophical underpinnings from the profession of behavior analysts. Thank you. Any other questions Senator boy. How many B. C. B. A.'s D. represent. That's a difficult question to answer I do know that I've talked to many PCB As and day were number one opposed to the bill I am aware of the bill and aware of the changes that have been made. Senator love. Thirty minutes do we not have the chair of this of this board of the state board come mystique for this bill. I believe I believe I believe so yes so the chair of this board came to speak for this bill so you're coming to speak are you all members of that same association Arkansas Association. I am a member and if trying to get the exact numbers because it's not on the website but we have approximately two hundred behavior analysts in the state of Arkansas and the board has had membership very between eighty and a hundred hundred fifty and so I don't know what the membership is at this time that we are all members of the Arkansas association for behavior analysts I am okay you are. Okay all right thank you are there any other questions. The members of the committee all right scene and we're going to get to the next person that we haven't heard from yet Laurie sends. Hi I'm I'm here today because I'm nineteen I do many many hours of work actually actually closely in the homes and with the client and I was listening to the discussion of this bill two weeks ago and it just just because I'm interested in it and as I was listening I I really I really just had some some concerns of course is the most trouble someone out I will take the time to be redundant but the most trouble someone I'm not a member of our office I haven't heard all this discussion I just kind of have my my head to the ground and not the analyst and I'm just doing the work with the kiddo but I do I do talk a lot with people in this in this profession and I really want to be aware of the things are happening that affect my work and. The not having all that background knowledge but many hours experience in the field I I was very troubled by the by the suggestion that the rules and regulations of this licensure should be given to the psych ward because of the expertise and and the scope of our practice and behavior analysis is quite different and very distinct from the errors and it that made me very uncomfortable to listen to that frankly and then and then secondly there there was this this seeming imp implications that was communicated that that our work our our general community of of professionals that supported this bill as it is written. So I know a lot of people in this field at B. C. B. A.'s also but it certainly also other techs are working and we talk a lot about the things that impact our work and I I have not heard of this majority of people who who are in favor of the psychology board overseeing this so I have done two things since I left here because I I was very troubled by that I've done a couple things I started is much as I could in a couple weeks just reaching out to all these people and you know this this reference to these the to these numerous meetings and and this that we are we are all in support yes the president of that board. A friend in previous colleague of mine did did come and and and and some support that so I respect for that but. That boards population is by no means a majority of all the people that work within this fails you your you get to your point okay out of these two minutes sorry okay so that sense of that and then and then secondly I did I did do some reading and instruct once said so I won't I have lots of stuff but I'll just say this there there really are some some problematic results that occurred in the the primary one that affects me that that really. Motivated me to drive twenty one hours last three days to speak against this bill is I hate all the hours I'm not an analyst so all the hours in the last twelve years that I've been doing this work that I have spent I have been very closely connected and associated with the clients and their families and. I have heard countless I have seen countless struggles with these families. The to try to overcome the barriers and obstacles to thank you we were at the end so you're opposed to the bill can I can I just read just a few common you're you're like a one minute already over the two minutes so I'm gonna go to the next person that we have not heard from yet yes I'm William governing all this quickly as possible really quickly ply behavior analysis is a science of voted to understanding and improving human behavior really quickly sciences six discover nature's troops faxing universal laws exist and operate independent of the opinions and beliefs of any person or group including scientists therefore scientific knowledge must be separated from any personal political economic or other reasons in which which which it was sought. Hi in specifically against this bill because of the licensing of the psychology board I am fresh off of the first ABA program in Arkansas at the masters masters level and I would it was drilled into my brain that has a BA in behavior analysts we focus on measurable and observable behavior behavior where the psychology focuses on inner internally Vance we take into account these things but we use the media environment around us to bring positive behavior change that specifically why I am against the bill that is licensed solely by the psychologist board okay Senator boy you had a question. Okay. Thank you so much for comments and then Brandon we've we've heard from you but I think. Go ahead if I could just say one thing so last time I was here it was mentioned numerous times that the a specifically Senator Irvin you mention the mental health and mental and behavioral health worker so and I believe it was mentioned that and this bill was a product or came out of that in association with arkada coming and I'm presenting this but upon review that thirty eight page document if there was no mention of behavior analysts are applied behavior analysis which is a mental and behavioral health profession and I just think that those recommendations of working to collaborate amongst providers and creating consolidated mental professions boards And other recommendations such is garnering workforce development within those that this bill under psychology board or the better handles licensure under psychology board does not encompass or include those things such as collaboration it would only She adversity between the two organizations. and so is there is a struggle between an organization that you were part of that you don't wanna be a part of and you'll create wanting to create your own new organization. I'm. I would probably refer that question to doctor minds since she knows my okay I'm I'm kinda hearing there's a like a power struggle here between an existing organization and you'll not want to be a part of that and kind of create your own. Am I off there yes here are off I can complete and appreciative of the work that's done by our current Arkansas the board it is just that I feel this is pushed too fast and we need to come back and take the time to draft and craft a bill that is going to align with the recommendations of national experts in the field of a BA and I have family support arkada I would never want to have a second group or okay not in support of our cop okay okay that I appreciate that very much any other questions Senator love you're recognized. You mentioned so any any so is it just psychology board the end of the psychology board that you have the issue with or is it just that you want your own board which I'm in which one is it it is the psychology board into a draft of some recommendations from doctor gene green and she was the CEO of the association professional behavior analysts she just she took the bill draft instruction every reference to psychology board okay but most similar missing it is it is it just a cycle or is it is it the psychology board that you are opposed to this not any of the board but it's just a psychology war it would be under if we render any board that is not. Does not have representation from behavior analysts but in particular the psychology board because as I said there philosophical and theoretical and are planning Very broad and behavioral analytics for special so to me this is it is the board of social work would you be opposed yes because okay they are also not in the same field so the in the all right thank you thank you meant that you're just supposed to be in under any other board not under any other board then went to Wharton at its I'm not familiar with all of the bills that have been proposed but you bet your in your field there was a consolidated board in each. Each profession had representation from their professionals then. And and then that those professionals with that credential with that training with those years of experience would review the applications the policies procedures and I would not be opposed to that being under another profession would be like Senator borate having pharmacists under that area because they have something to do with each other be it would if we had a distinct professions and stand that we actually did vote to abolish the veterinary examination board and put them under livestock and poultry commission so we we actually just did that and this session so I mean if any anyway I appreciate it Senator love did you have any follow up questions any other questions from members of the committee all right thank you CNN we really appreciate your common driving down thank you so much we do have somebody speak for or we're gonna bring that person up in the area straight to the close yep two minutes let's see. Rocky Haynes. If you'll just identify yourself for the record and then you're recognized. Hello my name is Dr rocky Haynes I'm a board certified behavior analyst at the doctoral level and in the field for going on seventeen years I am here representing two different entities I'm here representing the Arkansas Association of behavior analysis which represents one hundred and twenty two behavior analysts here in the state of Arkansas the Arkansas association of behavior analysis is definitively in support of this bill and licensure in addition I would like to comment that the behavior analyst certification board that represents thousands of behavior analysts across the United States also supports this bill in addition provided funding to the Arkansas association of behavior analysis as far as to travel back and forth to work with all of the entities and partners to draft a bill that would work as a behavior analyst originally when I heard that I was going to be under the psychology board I was a little bit nervous about that I will now speak as a personal company owner and a practitioner I've had the opportunity and then blasted my creative work with well over three hundred families across multiple states and what I would say as originally I was a little bit nervous about being under the state board because of some historical things but I have learned through the process that the state board has worked very collaboratively with the Arkansas CCCB and analysis the representatives and the senators to identify ways to make sure that there is representation as far afield I would like to end with some personal information coming out of northeast Arkansas of a committee because with many families in the area I was just communicating through text with a few of them to ask if I could share their information what we're seeing across the state of Arkansas right now is there are many technicians some of which have been here testifying that have have the flexibility to be able to practice independently with families and what has happened to some of these families is that their children have ended up with a very negative outcomes as part of their treatment because behavior analysts were very unethical and were not oversee in. The supervision of the cases and what has happened is that families did not know how to move forward to prevent that from occurring again and one speech pathologist that is the family that I work with just mentioned to me and text message that if she was looking for someone who can be again she is now in Arkansas to look at the license in the city council complaint if there were any other profession they would so I would encourage a good vote to protect our citizens thank you. Thank you two minutes right on the dot very good are there any questions Senator Solomon you gave mandrel evidence do you have any. Science the backs up what you just said about the poor care of that group. Yes so currently I am in taking multiple cases as I'm just asking for national data. That in you can cite a report right now that says what you just said is true and innovations if the technicians are making decisions about. Current took out some professionals that by saying they're not doing their job correctly so do you have any data that says that's true. I would have for no it's now okay I'm talking about the experiences of Arkansas families. Okay thank you so much are there any other questions from members of the committee. All right thank you so much for testimony coming here today okay I will go back to senator Hammer and representative Clowney. I think we've heard from DHS on this bill correct is that correct and. You have. They're neutral okay thank you. Thank chairman make a couple comments Senator represent clinic she's much deeper on this but honestly just having sat here and listened to the discussion some things like to point out is we've worked really hard representative Cavenaugh sitting over there she can testify this you made evidence so we're not trying to create new boards we're trying to use the structure the boards we have in place and as I understand it to positions would be on the board that would be represented by this group so they have a voice here in the state of Arkansas it also understand right representative Connie can you know call me down if I'm wrong is that the accountability now is to a board in Denver we have no one in the State of Arkansas that people can go to his was just given testimony by the gentleman that just sat down what I see here's an opportunity to bring accountability the state of Arkansas give representation on an existing board and be able to give people what this committee is all about is public safety that if there's or issues where do people go now they got to go out of state that's not right for us in our cans out of state here but take care of issues that happen here in the state and what I see is this is a pathway forward for us to bring accountability to our citizens and with that man shall defer to representative Clowney to clean up anything I said any misinterpretation and what she likes enclosing thank you I don't know how I can improve on that I'll just say that this is you know we worked very hard with the professional organization we were professional organizations all the time here professional associations I mean whether it's tracking or hospitals or banking and and we have done just that with this bill we've got support of our local professional association as well as the national one so behavior analysts I think are are by and large very much for this bill and all of the reasons that representatives are that senator Hammer just presented our wives appreciate a good vote thank you right thank you senator Wallace a court of well we're at closing but okay I'm sorry we don't mind but if if they're willing I'll let you go ahead Senator Wallace. Hodges races so late but just verify your you're not create a new board your ask for positions on Board. That's correct it's a new license there's currently no license and so this would be a new license under the existing psychology board that would then have to additional spots are sorry to of those spots on that board would go to people with behavior analysis. So they would have representation. Thank you so much all right it's close to what's the will of the committee. Motion do pass is there a second as amended is there a second. Okay I'm sorry I fails for lack of a second the Committee members committee. Okay ma'am shared master question yes. Because we are being publicly recorded and this is a live stream if people have trouble with these folks I'd like to at least no such a thing to be good at the public knows who are they supposed to call if they have an issue with a member of this decision of the of these individuals that are offering their selves to the public we had testimony just given that their complaints and and maybe up to a manager we ought to at least get that available through our website or somehow know that we need to make sure the citizens know who they're supposed to call and maybe it would be the Department health I'm I know this is all to spot but based on the testimony today we need to let people know who they need to be call in case they have problems appreciated. Thank you I'll let me let the Department of Health prepare a response to that and then bring that back to us at a later time thank you Representative Cavenaugh. Representative Cavenaugh. Okay. Senator Hammer. H. B. eleven I'm sorry fourteen forty six. Manager Kim Hammer say senate district sixteen. A friend Cavenaugh state representative district thirty. And Mr Martin DHS deputy secretary. Ma'am chair futuro deferred representative Cavenaugh for the presentation please. Yes thank you madam chair and committee I'll just be short we've heard this bill before so we are familiar with it and what I'd like to do is to turn it over to deputy director Martin so that she can clarify some information that might have been confusing the Committee thank you. Thank you Committee I feel so short today we set up like this. my understanding is that there was concerns about duplicative of licensing so I just wanted to explain some differences between this bill and what is currently happening so I don't want to make sure that everyone sees on page two the quality of care standards and so those are quality of care standards that are not currently being covered and both are and all P. R. T. S. psychiatric residential treatment care acute and subacute there has been concerns raised that Medicaid has a contract for a efficiency that does the quality review and for those programs AFMC only covers review as it relates to Medicaid clients and DHS would since we are the holder of those contracts would be reviewing if this becomes law those AFMC contracts to make sure that there's not duplicative nature between those contracts as well as this law I'm in addition there is a licensing for P. R. T. S. under the child welfare licensing board but those standards in that license in the regulations these are different than what's currently so this would be in addition to by the same oversight of a P. R. L. unit placement right placement residential licensing unit at DHS and for acute and subacute we did check with the department of health who license acute and subacute and these are additional standards that are not currently covered by the department of health. Okay thank you questions from them member Senator Solomon. Thank you for clearing some of that so I might understand that because my I didn't wasn't clear the other day so the duplicative. Aspects of apartments. We're we've kind of done a side by side. And those are now resolved that were not over duplicating if that's a word haven't redundancies on inspections because in my experience one of the biggest Difficulties if the getting our administrators off the floor because they do so many checks and they're walking around the building with so many inspectors that they can't be on the floor supervising their employees so what you're telling me now she resolve that and that were not the redundancies are greatly reduced yes I mean I want to be transparent are providers Arkansas I'm of a some providers saw some providers are concerned that there's duplication but we have done a review we have done our homework quality of care is not currently covered and there are ways that quality of care can be added to what is already happening so that if it is the P. R. L. unit from DHS private placement residential licensing unit it would still be those people doing the reviews but there would be additional things that they're looking at to determine quality of care if it is on the sub acute acute side Department of Health is still going to do they're oversight around licensing which licensing which I heard came up late what is the Building look like water that you know the parameters of safety around building structure this does not cover that this is about quality of care and treatment so there will be DHS coming in looking at different things than there are. It is different. Care units they're different things are covered in their different records that are specific to what you're doing which I'm just want to make sure that the work in the. Redundancies that are so cumbersome and the operations of these businesses and you're telling me that's done now yeah we're going to do it but it's done now yes yes thank you. All right and then I could just add one thing if you don't mind send fashion quick let's just go to other questions okay anyway any other questions for members of the committee. Hi C. nine you can make one quick statement I just wanted to say that we just did find out that the governor is in support of this that's all I wanted to bring out okay thank you all right here to speak for and against. and if we've heard from you again we really want to go to other folks okay stuff Sherri wielding. The other day okay and then we have. Mike Mitchell. Yes I just have a position statement on behalf of medical hospital okay and we've heard from a broadcast we've heard from both month Methodist and pinnacle before. Mr Frazier could not be here on such short notice so but I just want to express the hospital's opposition to the bill because it it it violates a bedrock conservative principle that continue over sorry introduce yourself for the record. Introduce yourself for the record on sorry Mike Mitchell I represent pinnacle of point hospital here in Little Rock. and the opposition is summed up in that it violates the bedrock concept of a conservative principle against over governmental regulation hospitals already licensed and regulated by the health department and this bill puts another layer of regulation by a different state agency all in the hospital and the interesting thing is this bill was not generated by any problem with the hospital it was generated by a problem with the P. R. T. F. and and it's directed to P. R. T. apps but when you read the definition of regulated. The regulated industry it covers hospitals hospital should be deleted from this bill and I think it would be then going after the problem that was presented to our knowledge has been no problem like this coming out of a psychiatric hospital. Thank you members anyone have any questions. Thank you thank you yes Sir. Sherri. Yes Sir I have yes my name is sherry will analyze the fact logical examiner minister Methodist behavioral hospital give it really quick the redundancies are removed if there isn't anything amended in this bill bottom line that suggestion that I stand by from Wednesday I stand by now there is existing licensing and regulation already in place at these facilities if there is an issue with quality by all means that should be addressed and needs to be addressed immediately the proper way to do that is with the existing rules and regulations that are in place and I would behoove them to consider that you're speaking against the bill absolutely thank you thank members any questions hi. Okay ma'am thank you. The members saying no one else to speak for against the bill you're welcome to close for your bill. Mr chairman deferred to a representative Cavenaugh. Thank you Mr chair I just wanna say with deputy Martin coming up missed make sure it clarified that this is not redundancy this is an area that there was no oversight of and that's just what we're trying to take care of is the quality of care for these patients and that's all we're trying to do with this. And with that members I would appreciate a good vote. Thank you with the will of the committee. Motion the second. As amended we have a second. A single second the Bill failed for lack of a motion second motion. Thank you Mr. Senator Penzo. You're a. Member for your two eighty nine. Thank you Mr Bill he would introduce yourself and then we'll take off okay. Senator Clint Penzo district thirty one. Senate bill five seventeen amends the no patient let alone act I don't know that there's. We may be on two different loans or it's when we are. I got to eighty nine I'm not really into eighty nine you of me to sit back down and. Okay my apologies I'll turn this over. Okay. All right. Okay. And let's see center Petty. Senate bill five oh two. Senate bill five eight six. Thank you madam chair. members I can almost say although not as eloquently as he the same thing the senator Hammer said a minute ago you all have heard in this committee this bill it just was under Senate bill two seventy four passed out here unanimously we held on the floor to work on concerns that the industry had and in the interest of time and out of respect for the committee's time and I have representatives from the attorney general's office and other the pharmacy association and others here I'm not going to call in to the table and less you have questions and I'll just be brief with my comments and I move forward so this bill addresses concern that has it has arisen out of the opioid crisis we had a situation in my home town and it's across Arkansas and other situations where the major wholesale drug distributors. The A. they were part of an injunctive relief and as part of that they felt it was within their right to terminate Sir supplying these two are members those in our community when we. That's just for reference and and I can go into more details if you so need that this bill is a better version of two seventy four that you passed there's a companion bill in the house it passed out of committee last night unanimously as well we worked with the attorney general's office and others to try to to try to make this state aid even better building two seventy four and with that I am not going to stop and ask for any questions and be happy to try to answer yeah I'm so sorry we don't have the bill with us and our folders so we need to get that it was just left out of the folder so so sorry I'm I'm very sorry we're going to get a copy of this for the members real quick can you just I'm so sorry you've been here all morning that we have to can you just step aside and let us get a copy of the bill thank you. And then we'll come right back to you I promise okay. Senator Leding let's see Thank you senator Hammer I'm I've got. Which building you have. Can we go to senator Hammer. Yes fifteen seventy four. I'm sure I've got a quick hand of the think election today everybody's visual understanding what this does is the chair would allow. Yes please. Manager this Kim Hammer state senator district sixteen. Thank you senator Penzo senator Hammer you're recognized to present your as this bill thank you ma'am chair and I'd like to set the tone by Lee you know that the governor's office is neutral on this and DHS has this is house bill fifteen seventy four yes ma'am fifteen seventy four. Okay receive manager. Okay go ahead thank you madam chair members of the committee first of all set the tone for this the governor's neutral on this bill also DHS has stated that is revenue neutral and I'll give you just a quick couple paragraphs it sets the tone I apologize was supposed to have somebody here but unfortunately they are sick they maybe can take it down the wage deeper we are so excited to share with you the framework to support families with infants and toddlers in a new way through primary care clinics in Arkansas this bill outlines a general structure and timeline to support optional cost saving models of team based pediatric primary care programs that have already had a significant impact on families with young children in Arkansas this amendment or this bill ensures that bill comes with the opportunity to work with Medicaid on administrative side to make an investment budget neutral and positively this approach allows well trained individuals who do not have to be licensed PH provider support family needs address mental health and approved school readiness the bottom line is made sure this came as a result of last year's work group that focused on mental health as mentioned this is revenue neutral and what it does is put a very leisure effort on families with children from birth up to four years old in order to make sure that they get the attention they need to get off to the best possible chance for results in early childhood manager all of stop this time there's a handout the kind of visualize is the approach in the concept to it and I'll be glad to answer any questions to the abilities I'm able to okay are there members that have questions yes senator Boyd you're recognized for a question so could you cover the highlights remind us there's no fiscal impact. Revenue neutral yes or No fiscal impact there's no known opposition to my knowledge no and this is something that supports in improving care within physicians offices yes Sir I think what it does is taken very high need and lasers in efforts to that specific yes or no. Yes or no was a question it's a good thing okay. Senator Solomon. Senator can you have the support of of what you're trying to do but didn't we do this with the wraparound services years ago we started maybe ten years ago calling a wraparound and all these teams were put together this seems to be duplicating exactly what we did with the wraparound. I want to answer the question this way maybe somebody highly committee get in deeper we each I think what we found through last year's efforts is that this is a tweet to what's there because what was there maybe was a provision is good results and this is read reshaping the approach and redirecting approach racial accountability in a transparent way that we can see what's intended for Medicaid agree there program didn't work I want to speak on behalf of the. But I mean I'm happy to hear from Medicaid I understand it seems like we keep saying we're going to do better and do better and we're going over there we had a wraparound problem program we started ten or fifteen years ago and now we're saying we need that we're gonna have another wraparound problem is going to change the financing and that's her for help but it is not revenue neutral and it doesn't do anything that we just keep on not doing anything I guess no cost I would like to say this and at the risk of another question but Smith with the dribble of met with the new secretary I think there's fresh wind in old ships sail and I think that this is an effort to try to help take it the direction we want to go in Senator Solomon around here for one more general session to more fiscal I promise you this doesn't deliver I'll be the first come back in and we'll have a good meeting about. No. All right thank you any other questions from members of the committee C. nine U. close for your bill yes ma'am anyone here to speak for against C. nine but the motion to pass second all those in favor say aye opposed ayes have it congratulations you passed your bill senator thank you we have the Petty and I will go to Penzo. Five a two Senate bill five a two thank you Sir and and we have heard kind of the idea behind this bills if you just want to clarify does exactly what's different and who you worked with that be great. Just three state your name for the record this is Senate bill five oh two. Thank you madam chair I was almost done we really done but House say almost done this bill after it was passed again unanimously and then a companion bill yesterday AS two seventy four basically this the major differences in this bill or the attorney general's office has reviewed again and and helped us write this one even better the wholesale distributors can just they can still terminate controlled substances restrict subsist suspicious orders to comply with injunctive relief that was one of their concerns more specifically than two seventy four the previous bill it's it's more specific to education requirements Committee communication standards licensed pharmacy pharmacist involvement patient chart review expectations and if an appeals process. There are a few others the fines have been reduced and it also requires on site visit bylaws pharmacies including existing pharmacy customers and a notification which is a key for the association notification of the Arkansas state board of pharmacy. Okay are there any questions from the members of the committee. All right C. nine. let's see Lee Elendil the signed up to speak against the bill. The bill to state your name for the record in here with. Thank you chairman I Leland doll and vice president of state government affairs for the healthcare distribution alliance we are opposed to this legislation on keep it very brief our members cover thirty five wholesale distributors as you mentioned injunctive relief that covers three of our members we do have concerns with the provisions of the legislation still that they could cause issues under injunctive relief our members that are outside of those three have issues with how they feel this could contradict DA regulations and put them at odds with federal requirements that they are bound to so our fear is that it could it kind of. How these issues carry forward an impact not just those three members and how they operate in the state but other members that are responsible for delivering products into the state I with that we are committed to a full heartedly to work with the state the board of pharmacy the pharmacy association center Petty and representative callous a way to try to rectify those issues and come to a good path forward thank you. Senator Boyd you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair I don't want to belabor this but within the last the last bill I realize this is a new one last bill one of the three wholesalers name kept coming up this so do we have anybody in the room for AmerisourceBergen today. We. By that and thank you senator we do not have them in the room today they are willing and able to get on the phone one of their head office is going to get on the phone later with senator Patty to discuss the issues that they have with the bill but we do think they are coming to the table they are willing to work odd to do whatever they can to rectify the issues and given that. We're trying to hold harmless the entities that have not been kind of discussed in and brought forward on this as well. Are there any other questions. I hear your concern I think it's a legitimate concern however you know your small businesses if they can't sell their products it becomes a real problem for these businesses in the state of Arkansas you don't have to respond but I do hear you and I do understand that it's a federal issue but I I thank you for your testimony any any further questions C. nine you're recognized close for your bill. So in one of the meetings and I do not want to speak for the Attorney General she is here if she if you have questions or but the injunctive relief anticipated situations like this and there are provisions in injunctive relief to deal with any discrepancies like this and and we do not believe that there's a conflict with injunctive relief with that closed to present a good vote miss that and I think you just got promoted to Attorney General congratulations Tim Griffin or. Thank you. He might already know that. Hi on her. Okay thank you so much with the will of the committee motion to pass second all those in favor say aye and oppose ayes have it congratulations thank you members ask your bill senator Concetta. Senate bill five seventy. Great I love it. It builds your name for the record you're recognized. The manager Clint Penzo district thirty one. Senate bill five seventeen means the no patient let alone act Pretty much would want to patients that the sentiment imminent the healthcare facility would be required to allow a clergy member to visit a patient person that's the main thing the bills just allowing clergy access to to patients you know during during covert my uncle died alone in a hospital in and as it is a Catholic I believe you know having your last rights is something that we should not have infringe upon so this just insurers that clergy have access to patients near the end of their life so I can elaborate more on the bill or we can just get a vote a statement on any questions from the members of the committee anyone here to speak for against you've close motion to pass second all those in favor say aye opposed I've had it congratulations you passed Senate bill five seventeen thank you Committee thank you all rights of I have House Bill sixteen twenty nine for mark Johnson Senator Johnson and then I have to bills after that and then we have senator Wallace has a bill let's just go ahead and move that Senator Wallace House Bill fourteen forty nine is on the deferred list do you want to make a motion to suspend the rules to remove house bill fourteen forty nine from the deferred list to the regular agenda for purpose of consideration. And there's a second all those in favor say aye and oppose ayes have it house bill fourteen forty nine will be made from the deferred list to the regular agenda and we will be hearing that after as the five twenty okay Senator Solomon if you'll take the chair. For me. Centerview would introduce yourself and your bill number yes thank you House Bill sixteen twenty nine I'm running for senator mark Johnson I'm Senator Irvin district twenty four. And member's house bill sixteen twenty nine is dealing with rabies rabies vaccine vaccinations and I think it's just that and a measure that Senator McGee worked with the Faulkner County has Thank you made those shelters animal shelters and others and so they work through this issue about vaccinations of rabies and just being able to confined confined those animals and service animals if there is no local facility then it would be the owner's responsibility and it's really just trying to ensure that we have the current vaccinations Thank you have give them the ability to to confine those animals under this provision if they did not have to. At rabies vaccination. Members and everybody have any questions. J. nine anybody in the audience to speak for against. Seeing them Senator you're welcome to close for your bill and I'm close out I make a motion to pass. Correct. Senate. I have a motion and a second all in favor say aye aye any oppose. Thank you your bill is passed thank you the member Senate bill five forty two. For the record you need to speak state your name again sorry that's okay Senator Missy Irvin district twenty four. You may present your bill thank you Senate bill five forty two and as you know Arkansas right to life one of their top priorities that we have put into legislation is the right to know and see act which is to view an image of an ultrasound of your baby while you're carrying that baby and so all this bill does is just broadens that that you would get an ultrasound before you would make a referral for an abortion obviously we we don't have abortions in the state of Arkansas but if you would refer to an abortion clinic that you would be you would provide an ultrasound for that patient before you make that referral I'm assuming this probably is going to affect your folks around the borders of of Arkansas First and foremost but but that's what the bill does support to Arkansas right to life residences on an airplane she was here last night but I told her I would handle this for her but as you know we worked a lot with Rosen this is a priority for them we just didn't get to it to late in the session. I'm class thank you members have any questions. Okay anyone here to speak for against the bill. Senator you're welcome to close for your bill close I have a motion we have a second all in favor say aye hi the bill is passed I'm sorry All opposed thank you your bill is passed thank you. Senate bill five twenty Senate bill five twenty if you would introduce yourself again and we'll move forward thank you senator Missy Irvin district twenty four. And members of the Senate bill five twenty as an additional spot on to the graduate medical education residency at expansion board and then also changes the definition of medical schools we now have to DO schools UAMS ends there will be a new one in Northwest Arkansas also it gives the opportunity for all of them to be represented. We worked with everybody on this members anyone have any questions representative or senator Boyd sorry. I didn't catch all that so it gives people from Fort Smith to be representative. Well as the schools yes yes. That yeah yeah any other questions members it products that definitions so encompasses all of them anyone here to speak for against the bill. Saying that you're welcome to close for your bill I'm closed will the committee have a motion and a second all in favor say aye aye opposed say none congratulations your bills passed thank you your honor roll you got another one okay. The last one thank you representative Ferguson for being here all morning with that senator Wallace you're recognized if you'll state your name for the record and then you may present your bill. Thank you madam chair center Dave Wallace District nineteen. I'm sorry to have him yes thank you manage your committee has represented can Ferguson District sixty four. Members this is a very simple bill it moves the lifetime license from age sixty five to fifty five for a cosmetologist and time of service from thirty years to twenty years. If we pass this bill throughout the land cosmetologists will raise arms shall array and being that they no longer have to admit that you're sixty five the lifetime license. Okay other in there any questions from members of the committee senator Boyd you're recognized for a question just are there any cost concerns to the cosmetology board that you know findings by doing this you know because concerns Iran is by the department of health and the fact the recommended the language for the bill. Okay any other questions from members of the committee. All right C. nine as there anyone here to speak for against the bill. C. nine close for your bill I'm closed okay motion to pass second all those in favor say aye opposed Is haven't. Thank you so much If. It's my understanding that on Senator hammers bill. They may have come to an agreement. Yes is that correct. But. Do you. Yes senator Hammer you're recognized. But I think. If Senator Hammer you're recognized if you wanna explain what's occurring yes ma'am sure thank you so testimony on house bill eleven eighty nine there was some new information that came to the attention of those that had spoke against the bill would like to request if the committee would do one of two things either I'd like to bring the bill back up for reconsideration and let those to testify against Bill come up and make a statement. And then the committee can decide if they would like to pass the bill or not and whatever the committee decides to do after that I'm done but in light of some information that when they say aye I'm being told when they said when they argued against the bill awhile ago they did not understand something that was in the amendment that was put on the bill I think maybe out of fairness to them that we should have a chance to say for against it as it is now. Yeah absolutely we want to hear directly that from yes ma'am I would like to hear directly to yes if they will all come back up to the table we appreciate y'all driving so long distances. Converse and okay if you I'm sorry thank you all for being here if you will to state your names for the record again. Dr Sheila Barnes for the certified behavior analyst okay William Montgomery board certified behavior analyst okay thank you so much please go ahead with your testimony take as much time as you need okay it's my understanding now that the bill does provide for two. People to be represented on. The bill the site board two people who are and clinical psych and PCBA my concern was that that is very very rare in Arkansas to have someone that certified as a board certified behavior analyst and a clinical psychologist even those of us who are doctoral level board certified behavior analysts are not also clinical sites and so that was my concern there's only to my knowledge there was only one person in existence in Arkansas who has that credential so therefore we don't have one person represent on the board but it was brought to my attention I was informed that that is only for two years because I was concerned about a bill that would go into perpetuity that would have representation that won't exist perhaps and that was a concert. So knowing that in two years any B. C. B. a could be on that board and that currently we have two people so both slot would be filled by people who are B. C. B. A.'s then I'm not concerned about that representation in being governed by the site board okay okay do you wanna make your statement yes I also once want to stand for the bill I was unaware that the parts of the amendment that had the two seats available for B. C. B. A.'s even though it is plus clinical side I think it is very important that we at least have a say in this and have a position on the board so I do stand for it and I apologize for not. Dennis do not apologize you're totally fine you know what this is the process right this is the process of governing you have just stepped into our shoes. And you become policy makers when you do that so does such a great example of citizens coming forward speaking on a bill this is a great example of why it is so important for you to represent the people that you serve because when you signed up to speak U. SEC clients you served that's the representative to your speak for an organization or an agency you're speaking on behalf of the client to server that is honorable and that's notable and I I appreciate that so then you step out and you become policy makers and then you all get with the folks and then you changed your position and you came back in here and told us that so I appreciate. The fact that you became policy makers today. Really proud. Okay with that though I would need to ask my committee if they want to reconsider house bill eleven eighty nine with this new information. Okay senator Wallace makes a motion that we reconsider house bill eleven eighty nine second by Senator Solomon all those in favor say aye. And oppose ayes have it house bill eleven ninety nine I'm gonna let you present the bill. At I think we've already heard from you you are supportive of house bill eleven eighty nine is that correct. At the record yeah you guys support of bill eleven eighty nine okay yes okay all right with that I'm gonna allow you to close for the bill you've closed what is the pleasure of the Committee motion to pass second as amended because that's important all those in favor say aye. And oppose ayes have it the bill passes as amended I'm so grateful to you guys for your work and and all you did today thank you so much. Okay is there anything else to come before this committee. All right. This is that great great work can we give a round of applause to our staff. Thank you Maria thank K. and without folks we are complete with our business public health probably will not meet again and without we are adjourned.