House Judiciary Committee Part 2
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Bills discussed (1)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
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HB2169
· 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB2169”
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Pre-2017 bill |
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Representative John W. Walker
Unverified
0:00
The judge does not have an interest in the outcome, at least presumably the judge does not have an interest in the outcome. The judge is to be fair and impartial, and this situation leaves it open to a judge who feels that a person has not paid the full bond to perhaps treat that person differently than he would treat him if he had been released on recognizance. I mean, in other words, I mean, a judge is in a position because he doesn't like bondsmen.
I mean, this is a bill where some judges don't like the practice of bondsmen not getting paid all their money. So if they don't get paid all their money, then the judge has an attitude toward that bondsman. And my experience is that when people have attitudes, those things can carry over and work to the detriment of the accused. Would you agree with that,
Speaker 4
0:53
Mr. Jekyll? That's a lot to agree with. I will agree with you that judges should have no interest in the outcome of litigation,
but we're talking about a preliminary hearing right now to ensure that the system is served by a defendant showing up at court when he's supposed to. From my standpoint, yeah, I view myself as adversarial to somebody who hurt somebody else, and I have some input into the bond decision. But still, I don't think that I'm precluded either ethically or morally or otherwise from being disturbed when I hear of what I view to be an abuse.
Speaker 6
1:33
Well, excuse me, just a minute, Representative Walker. Be mindful of the time. We've got 15 minutes. We've got two or three people signed up to speak against. Proceeding, Representative Walker. Well, thank
Representative John W. Walker
Unverified
1:54
you. Well, I'm concerned about the notion of credit bonding. I don't know that the law prohibits credit bonding. I mean, could you show me anywhere where it says that?
I mean, it says that a person may, as I understand it, a person may make a bond on terms that are fair and reasonable. And if a person cannot, meaning the practice has been over the years, if a person could not make the $100,000 bond that some judges are inclined to set a $200,000 and needed to get out of jail, then the industry
Representative Bruce Westerman
Unverified
2:32
accommodates that. It is somewhat competitive. Very simply, sir, Mr. Representative, the law says under a professional bond, they shall collect 10%.
Representative John W. Walker
Unverified
2:40
That's right. now. It doesn't say that in all due respect, it doesn't say
Representative Bruce Westerman
Unverified
2:47
that they shall collect it in advance. It doesn't, but if you go with that line of
Speaker 14
2:53
reasoning, then the person could be paying it
Representative John W. Walker
Unverified
2:56
out while he's serving his 99-year prison sentence for murder first. That may be so, but it also says that a person who
comes before a judge shall pay a lawyer's fee. And it doesn't set out
that that has to be paid up front either. I mean, that's something that's worked out, and the system has to take into account the circumstances of people more often than not who do not have means and their competing interests, such as the fact that a person may have a wage-an-hour job, and that job is in order to pay a bond or a lawyer while waiting for trial, that person has to be able to work, and both parties can take into account,
that is, the lawyer and the judge, the fact that the person is working and that the person's only way of being able to keep his or her livelihood is by doing that. Now, under those circumstances, justice is better served, wouldn't you say, that the person keep his job first, keep his family together if he has one, and not stay in jail because
he does not have the full amount of the bond and then cannot afford to get a lawyer. I think justice is
Representative Bruce Westerman
Unverified
4:14
better served when the law is complied with.
And bond is set by judges, prosecutors, and oftentimes defense attorneys and prosecutors agree to bond. So when a defense attorney and a prosecutor say in the case of Bernie Madoff agree to a $10 million bond, the system and the law doesn't contemplate
Speaker 17
4:31
Bernie Madoff paying $100 and signing a promise to pay out the rest of
Representative John W. Walker
Unverified
4:36
it so he can get out of jail. Well, I understand that, but here's my point. The law does not say, I mean, I don't want these committee members to be misled. The law does not say that for a person to be bailed out,
he cannot enter into or she cannot enter into a credit arrangement with a bail bonds person, does he? Well, it's
Representative Bruce Westerman
Unverified
5:00
the Attorney General's opinion and all of our opinion that it,
Speaker 2
5:03
yes, sir, it does. The law is plain. It doesn't say that.
Representative Bruce Westerman
Unverified
5:06
The law is plain that it says to be admitted to have a bond and be bonded out, they shall collect 10% in a
Representative John W. Walker
Unverified
5:14
professional bond. Well, it shall collect. It doesn't say you have to do it on the front end, and that's my concern. And when the person comes to me and I agree to represent him or her,
the person agrees that he or she shall pay me. It doesn't mean that that person is going to pay all at one time. Now, I'm trying to understand why the judges are interested in this and the prosecutors. I mean, why are they seeking to make sure that bail bondsmen are paid? Let me
Speaker 20
5:46
answer that since you referred to judges several times. I'm interested in the law being followed, number one. And when I set a bond, I have no interest whatsoever in the outcome of the case,
except that the case does have an outcome and that the defendant shows up for court. That's what bond is for. The law, as I believe it reads, and the Attorney General has said, and they've made that point in court before and were successful in federal court, the law does contemplate and mean to say when it says 10 percent in 1719-102, or actually 1719.301, it says shall be 10 percent except that the money may be rounded up, blah, blah, blah.
It says, let me see, where are we? The premium or compensation for giving bond or depositing money or property as bail on any bond shall be 10 percent. And when you take that in the context of the prohibition of discount bonding and other things, I believe, and the Attorney General's Office believes, that that's what it means. If it were more clear, then we wouldn't need this bill. And therefore, to clarify what the bill does, what the law is, and obviously you disagree that's what the law is,
so that's why the bill is here, to clarify in the Section 2, the bail bonder agent or bail bond company shall collect the full 10 percent before the issuance of a bond. I believe that's what the law is, but obviously if everybody agreed with that, then we wouldn't need to be here. Obviously you don't agree, so that's why we're
Representative Darrin Williams
Unverified
7:30
here. Judge Huddersfield, good to see you. I haven't seen you in a while. Who's talking? Me. Oh, there you are. Chairman, yeah. Hey, there you are. Nice to see you. In light of time, really, I'm going to make a motion.
We lay this on the table right here. We'll pick up with Mr. Walker's question when we come back 15 minutes after adjournment. We'll come back. I apologize, Mr. Mayberry, but this is an important discussion. I don't want to call for immediate consideration without having a full discussion on this. And if your post can come back, we'd appreciate it, but we're going to have to get upstairs because we can't have this meeting going on when session is going on. So 15 minutes after the adjournment, we'll recess. We're reconvening. Thank you.
Agenda
HB2169
Adjournment
Documents
No documents posted.
Speakers
Representative John W. Walker
Unverified
Speaker 4
Speaker 6
Representative Bruce Westerman
Unverified
Speaker 14
Speaker 17
Speaker 2
Speaker 20
Representative Darrin Williams
Unverified