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House Public Health Committee Part 3

March 29, 2011
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Bills discussed (1)

Bill Title Sponsor Status
HB2171 · 4 mentions in transcript
Matched: “I've got one amendment number, no number, to House Bill 2171. That's”
Pre-2017 bill

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Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified 0:00
contractors at risk, and we had one contractor in particular who is at risk, and so what we sought to do here is to include this clarification language, and you can read it for yourself. The residential contractor fails to give the notice under the required subsection, then the residential contractor is barred from bringing an action either at law or in equity, including without limitation, I don't know what that is, to enforce any provision of residential contract unless the residential contractor has substantially compiled with the notice requirements of the subsection. So it's just a little cleanup language is all it is. And again, I would be remiss if I would say Representative Hall really worked hard and he worked with the contractor's licensing board
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 0:48
on this bill as well. Representative Sanders, I hate to do this to you, but what
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Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified 0:54
is quantum M-E-R-U-I-T? that's a good question I'm I would be I would be I would be completely well come join me representative
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Speaker 9 1:04
Hall I think representative Sanders needs a little bit of help
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 1:12
I thought since he was a word master he would know definitely I took Latin at Ouachita it was my senior year it was an 8 o'clock class,
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Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified 1:20
and I'll be honest, it didn't do that well. I need a second to read this.
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 1:32
Yes, sir. Representative Wardlaw, did you have a question?
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Speaker 15 1:39
I was just basically going to tell him if he didn't know
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Speaker 17 1:48
what it was, how was I supposed to know
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Speaker 19 1:51
what it was? Does anyone at the table know what... What's the question? Do you know what
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Speaker 21 1:56
it means? It means reasonable value, doesn't it? Exactly. It's
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Bettina Brownstein Unverified 1:59
the value of something. It's not by contract.
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 2:02
Ma'am, would you take a seat at the table and introduce yourself for the record, please? My name is Bettina Brownstein.
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Bettina Brownstein Unverified 2:07
I'm a licensed attorney. I'm not going to say it's unconstitutional. For once. But I am going to tell you that it means, yeah, the reasonable value of something. If you have a contract typically with somebody, you have a contracted amount to pay for something. If you don't have a contract and the court has to figure out what it's worth, then they'll go by what testimony is, what the value of the services are in lieu of a contract. Thank you, ma'am. You're welcome.
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 2:32
Representative Hyde, you're recognized. Thank you. Thank
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Representative Barry Hyde Unverified 2:35
you, Madam Chair. Obviously, somebody had an unfortunate experience. Have you all run this through the Bar Association? Has the Bar Association reviewed this, and they've endorsed this bill? The only reason I say that is I've had some experience, actually, in my career as a contractor. In the mid-'90s, we had a committee composed of contractors, and I don't know if there's any residential people at the table, but the Bar Association and the trial lawyers, and there was a revamp done of the lien law. And the one thing I can tell you for certain is it's a pretty complex part of the law where there's a lot of interaction, I guess, of the different parts. And it sounds like, you know, what you're doing is trying to set up a residential contractor, which is a pretty broad group, and say if they don't give notice, and that's the notice to the owner of the property prior to beginning work, That's the notice we're talking about that they, it looks to me like, without exception, they lose their right to collect any monies or have any claim against the property for any work that was done or any expense incurred to do the
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Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified 3:58
work. First of all, you are correct that this did come out of a situation, a very precarious situation with one contractor. In terms of who has looked at this, when we filed this bill, obviously there were a lot of individuals and entities who saw that there was an amendment or an addition to the lien law, and that obviously grabbed the attention of a lot of people. Now, I've talked to several people. I have not had anyone express any opposition to me of this. Like, Sanders, we don't like your bill. You need to pull this down. What are you trying to do? I did not get any feedback like that. I did not go to them expressly and ask them to look at it. Mr. Hall, I know, had extensive visits with the Contractors Licensing Board about the situation we were dealing with, and this was the fruits of what came out of that situation in terms of the clarification.
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Representative Barry Hyde Unverified 4:58
And I appreciate that, but the Contractors Lost Licensing Board, in fact, doesn't have anything to do with lean law. They have to do with enforcing the laws that govern licensing, and they are certainly the correct place to voice complaints of somebody who's been unscrupulous or has misled or not been honorable in their dealings with a member of the public. But I appreciate what you're doing. I have sympathy to whatever occurred that got you this point. But this is a really important part of the law, and I cannot help but to say that we don't need to pass this. This is territory where I don't think we have the information we need to move forward with this, and I sincerely hope that the licensing board gave you relief at least in satisfaction of not renewing those folks' license if they were still in business. It's usually the people who are the worst performers are the people that are in business for less than two years anyways. Thanks for bringing
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Representative Clark Hall Unverified 6:13
it to our attention, and thank you, Madam Chair. Representative Hall. Yes, ma'am. And my involvement in this has to do not with the lack of the contractor performing a job. It was more that after performing the job and making the adjustments that the property owner asked for, then they did not file in the time frame, the 30 days, the contractor did not file his lien notice. And the 30 days, because they were, and this is a small contractor, a husband-wife operation that is licensed by the state of Arkansas. In my understanding, the owner of the property kept putting them off. You know, we've got to do this, and then we'll get it all straightened up. And the 30 days, 31st day, he decides that the person who had the work done to a tune of something like $30,000 or $40,000 said, well, you didn't comply with the law, and I don't owe you a dime. So we're back to the point of, in visiting, yes, with the contractor's board, it says, you know, this is not our, other than if it was a contractor's issue, we could look into it, but this is really, you're correct in the lien law, but the fact of the matter is we've been down here discussing about in joint budget issues about we owe these bills and we need to pay. Well, this person who used a technicality in the state law that says if I can jerk you around for 31 days, I don't have to pay. Now, I've got a contractor up there, a mom-pop operation, and I don't know where they're from, but my involvement is the woman involved here's mother happens to live next door to me. So it becomes very personal. But if they did the work and they did it in a timely manner and they didn't get paid because of the 30-day limitations, that's the issue. Now, whether this corrects that issue or not, I'm not really legal-minded enough to say maybe we need to do some corrections on it. But it has to be, whether it's adjusted today or tomorrow or next session, And something needs to be done to protect these small contractors in their work. If they do their job, they should be paid. Do you not agree with that? Representative Hyde,
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Representative Barry Hyde Unverified 9:11
you're recognized. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I certainly agree that everyone should get paid for work that they do. But in the situation that you're describing, there is still remedy. And I'm glad that Senator Lamoureux left, so now I can pretend like I'm a lawyer again. there is relief your contractor should have filed suit and still if the claim is still two years or less the real lawyer is looking over the shoulder to see who's talking you're absolutely right and all they've got to do is sue them if it's $30,000 or $40,000 that they're owed then that's certainly something you'd go sue for if it was $5,000 I'd tell you let it go it's going to cost you $10,000 to give to the courthouse
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Representative Clark Hall Unverified 9:52
they may not have the $10,000 because they put all their money up in this operation to do the job expecting to get paid, and now they're broke, and they understand that they could sue. They understand that they're not going to get their money back. What they're saying is this body needs to look at this situation, and whether it changes in this bill or another bill, there needs to be some remfegies done to correct, to protect, not only the contractor, but the honest contractors, but to protect the small contractors and also protect the homeowners.
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Representative Barry Hyde Unverified 10:29
And I agree with you, and it is probably time for a new update of the lien law, and I also would be inclined to say that when that update gets done, it will be a collaborative effort of several of those professionals, and it will probably be a 40-page bill. Well, then I assume, my
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Representative Clark Hall Unverified 10:44
good colleague there, that you will make sure when you come back to the senator that will happen. And I tried to get – actually,
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Representative Barry Hyde Unverified 10:51
I tried to get all the players involved to work on it this time, and we couldn't quite get there. And so it is time to get an update done. And Madam Chairman, that's all the information
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Representative Clark Hall Unverified 11:02
I have in this whole bill other than I support Representative Sanders on this. You got it. I'm appreciative of that.
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Speaker 52 11:11
Thank you, Representative Hall. Representative Sanders,
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 11:13
what's your thinking on this bill right now? Well, I mean, I'm
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Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified 11:19
in agreement with Representative Hyde in the sense that this does need to be looked at. We had an extensive paper trail of all that was involved, and Representative Hyde was absolutely correct that there was a remedy and it was that they could go to court, and they know that that was their – that was – I'm sorry. Thank you. I would like – I mean, when this was drafted by our staff, They looked at the complete body of documentation and correspondence. This is the remedy that was arrived at by our professionals who are experts in their field in terms of drafting legislation and looking at this. And this is what was arrived at and what was given to me, and it seemed that it met that requirement. You're willing to take more questions then? MR. I can only speak to the situation much in the way that Representative Hall spoke to the situation. That is, in terms of what this – if this opens up, as Frank White used to say, a box full of Pandoras, I probably would not be the right person to answer questions
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 12:30
about that. MS. Representative Hall, you're recognized. You're passing. All right. Representative Smith, you're recognized. MR. Thank you, Madam
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Representative Garry L. Smith Unverified 12:36
Chair. Sanders, don't you think that Representative Hyde is well on target, we should put this
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Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified 12:41
to an interim study? I can't disagree with that. I think that would be a good move. I can't disagree with that. And obviously, I certainly respect Representative Hyde on many levels, not the least of which is his expertise in the area of contracting. Well, and again, you know, you
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Representative Garry L. Smith Unverified 12:54
think about a subcontractor working under a contractor, if the sub doesn't pay for his material, then you've got another wrinkle in the sheets. And I think we need
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Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified 13:02
to take care of that. And I think the important thing that we can all acknowledge here is that it does need to be taken. I mean, this remedy will not help my constituent. It's not going to. And, honest, they're operating out of altruism here. They're thinking we don't want anyone else to fall into a similar situation that we found ourselves in. It was an unfortunate situation. And, Representative Hyde, I do respect you on many levels. Thank you. Representative Sanders, you're going to be taking the bill down. I would. And I say we refer it to interim study. I mean, that's what
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 13:30
I'd like. What you can do is take that bill to Amber in the House, and she'll make sure that happens. I appreciate that.
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Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified 13:36
We look forward to representing Senator Hyde working on this. Thank you very much.
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 13:44
Representative Word, I believe your amendment is here, and if you'll take your place at the end of the table, we'll hear your bill. Representative Word, what is the bill number? 2170? 2171. 2171. Ladies and gentlemen, you're being handed an amendment for 2171. Can I get a motion on that amendment, please? Representative Smith makes a motion to adopt the amendment for 2171. All in favor indicate by saying aye. All opposed, no. Representative Ward, you're prepared to present your bill. Thank you, Madam Chair. As I started earlier this
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Speaker 64 14:51
morning. Representative Ward, hold on just a moment.
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 14:54
Representative Lovell seems to need our attention. Point of order, I've got two amendments.
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Representative Buddy Lovell Unverified 15:05
I've got one amendment number, no number, to House Bill 2171. That's
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Speaker 68 15:11
the one that was this morning that's
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Representative Buddy Lovell Unverified 15:15
been changed. So we didn't
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Speaker 70 15:17
adopt that this morning? Yeah. We need to respond to the vote.
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 15:24
Okay, so we need to, let me confer with my expert here. Ladies and gentlemen, what we need to do is to expunge the vote on the First Amendment to House Bill 2171 that we took this morning. Do I have a motion to expunge the vote? I'll move. Representative Lovell moves. Yes, ma'am. Representative Wagner.
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Representative Charolette Wagner Unverified 16:05
Yes, ma'am. You're recognized. Thank you, Madam Chair. I may be wrong, but on one of these bills, you said this morning, remind you that we had not taken any action on the amendment. I'm wondering if that's
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 16:24
the one. Okay, my expert wasn't an expert this afternoon, I don't think.
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Representative Buddy Lovell Unverified 16:31
I think you're right, you're right. Okay. Okay, well, you've got a motion on the floor to adopt the right amendment anyway.
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 16:38
We do. I'm sorry for the confusion, but that's all right. We'll get through it. It appears that your First Amendment did not get passed today. Thank you, Representative Wagner, for helping us with that. And so we have passed already the Second Amendment, And now we have your bill and your amendment properly adopted, representative word, and you may proceed. Thank you, Madam Chair.
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Speaker 64 17:09
House Bill 2171 is a
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Speaker 79 17:11
bill that seeks to establish a commission to study landlord-tenant laws in the state of Arkansas. Arkansas is one of four states in the union that are without landlord-tenant laws. This particular bill here is simply to allow a committee to be established to study other state landlord-tenant laws and be able to report back to the Governor and the Speaker and the Senate Pro Tem on their findings of the different types of landlord-tenant laws in other states. The reason that this particular bill came about this particular session is because of the fact that we have had so many persons to lose their home, and they are now renters, and there is very, very little protection that renters as well as landlords receive especially if an eviction process takes place. So one thing that this particular bill hoped to establish after the Commission finding is some ground whereas the landlord-tenant law can be established in the state of Arkansas. As I stated earlier, there are some difficulties in actually evicting persons from your property. I know for a fact that I'm a landlord and I've had several persons who refuses to pay and they sometimes stay in the home for months and months and months without having to pay rent because of the process that is now in place of actually evicting of an individual from rental property. So hopefully by establishing this ten-member commission that they will be able to go out and study other states that currently have landlord-tenant laws and be able to somewhat enact those types of laws in the state
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 19:06
of Arkansas. Representative Hyde, you're
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Representative Barry Hyde Unverified 19:11
recognized. I'll be nice. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I guess just a small question. From what you're describing in your own situation, you don't have a judge in your area willing
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Speaker 79 19:25
to work with you. But the expense, Representative Hyde, that the landlord has to incur, they have to go down and pay $300 to the judge, and they also have to have a $30 filing fee in order to have the sheriff and everything to serve this to those persons that are currently living on in rental property. So it becomes very expensive. Not only have you not received rent proceeds for a number of months, but then you also continue to pile up debt in order to get a person out of your rental property that should
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Representative Barry Hyde Unverified 19:58
not be there after they stop paying rent. Well, I appreciate that, and I've been through some of the same experience, but if you've got a local judge that works with landlords, it's essential to getting the job done. And I appreciate your study, and maybe that will find a better way to do it, but these laws were just adopted four years ago. I think Representative Wills actually did a revamp of these very laws. Thank you. Representative Mayberry, you're recognized.
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Representative Andy Mayberry Unverified 20:30
Thank you, Madam Chair. I see on page two that it says that the members of the commission would not be entitled to compensation for their services or expense reimbursement. Is there any sort of fiscal tie to this at all? Not
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Speaker 86 20:48
at all. Any fiscal impact whatsoever?
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Speaker 87 20:50
Not whatsoever. Now or projected in
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Speaker 79 20:52
the future? In the future. Hopefully they will be able to report their finding back by December 31st of 2012 and also this Commission should have gathered their data from other states and all in order to report back and there should not be any cost involved at all
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Representative Andy Mayberry Unverified 21:10
and does this does this fall in line with resolution that we passed early in the session about not creating new task force and such as that
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Speaker 88 21:20
I know we don't call this
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Speaker 79 21:23
a task no no this is not this is not a I got with one of the governor's staff members and also got with the Board of Realtors and also the Landlord's Tenant Association, and they all felt that, you know, this was a necessary type of study that needs to be done if we are to stiffen the laws either or enact new laws in the state of Arkansas to
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Representative Charolette Wagner Unverified 21:55
deal with landlord tenants. Representative Wagner, you're recognized. Thank you, Madam Chair. Representative Word, it was mentioned this morning, and I concur with Ms. Lee who mentioned page 2F, all state agencies shall furnish to the commission and its staff any information and assistance the commission or its staff may reasonably request. Since this is a non-legislative commission, are you willing to take that portion out? Yes. That's a part
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Speaker 79 22:19
of this afternoon amendment. If you look at the bottom of the amendment that was just handed out to you on page 2, the deletion of line 14 through 16 at the very bottom, that was the cause
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Speaker 81 22:31
for the second amendment. Very good. Thank you. Appreciate it.
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Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified 22:40
Committee, any other questions? What's the pleasure of the committee? We have a motion do pass on House Bill 2171 as amended. in the audience wishing to speak against the bill? Anyone in the audience wishing to speak for the bill? In the question before the committee, is the passage of House Bill 2171 as amended? All in favor indicate by saying aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Representative Ward, you've passed your bill. Thank you, committee. Are there any other, we have just about five minutes, are there any other House bills? This is the last day we're going to be hearing House bills and we'll not be coming back in session this afternoon. So if there are any other house bills. All right, if no other business, we stand adjourned.
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Agenda

Call to Order

0:00

Documents

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Speakers

Representative David J. Sanders Chair Unverified
15 segments
Representative Linda S. Tyler Chair Unverified
20 segments
Speaker 9
1 segment
Speaker 15
1 segment
Speaker 17
1 segment
Speaker 19
1 segment
Speaker 21
1 segment
Bettina Brownstein Unverified
2 segments
Representative Barry Hyde Unverified
17 segments
Representative Clark Hall Unverified
11 segments
Speaker 52
1 segment
Representative Garry L. Smith Unverified
2 segments
Speaker 64
2 segments
Representative Buddy Lovell Unverified
4 segments
Speaker 68
1 segment
Speaker 70
1 segment
Representative Charolette Wagner Unverified
3 segments
Speaker 79
10 segments
Representative Andy Mayberry Unverified
2 segments
Speaker 86
1 segment
Speaker 87
1 segment
Speaker 88
1 segment
Speaker 81
1 segment