Legislative Joint Auditing - Executive Committee

Is an adoption of the minutes from the november eighth twenty twenty three meeting those minutes have been previously emailed to the committee members so you should have had a chance to review those prior to today uh do I see a motion to approve the adoption of the minutes I see a motion senator bright second. Uh senator payton all those in favor say I all those opposed as her but motion carries the minutes from the november eighth meeting have been adopted next on the agenda we at the status of special reports i'm going to recognize miss williams this time thank you mister chair in your aspect you have a list of the reports that are going to be presented this afternoon to the standing committees there are that are going to go to the prosecuting attorney as well as the attorney general there are eleven of those and then tomorrow we're going to present two annual reports that we prepare one is the population that we do for the disposition that matters that we have written in this committee has referred over to the prosecuting attorneys and the other report is cost benefit analysis of selecting economic and senate projects this is a report we do every year and we roll it up a year you'll see the the negative positivity of those different projects thanks. All right thank you miss williams is that complete your report okay saying no questions will move to the next item on the agenda which is new business. At this time i'd rep- uh recognize representative dalby and also senator stubblefield to make a presentation at this time singer's double field. Thank you mister chair members of the committee serious double filled now are the chairs sir students feels chair of senator dishearian chair of house judiciary and back in the regular session we ran a bill which became ac thirty eight uh of this legislature and in there it is a bill requiring the study of the financial matters related to the funding of the district court system and we had our first meeting in that regard this week and part of their ears it's a convoluted system and we need some help in figuring out where all the funding years how it gets divided out and so one of the things that were charged with in this task forces then presenting our document to the governor into the senate protim in the speaker of the house a report by october first instant funding and recommendations of funding and so we're looking at those types of things that the court costs fees fines assist within their system and what we're coming before this committee today is back in two thousand and fifteen leg audit did a report as to the court system the funding of from supreme court court of appeals to the circuit court but it didn't go down to the next level of the district court so an essence what were requesting this body is to approve leg audit to do a report encompassing the district courts and we feel like just by picking up where the two thousand fifteen report deared and picking up the district court that would be a great uh help and ourselves to the committee as we try to figure out funding the equitable parts of it where the minister policies what they should be doing what the county should be doing what the state should be doing. With that will be happy to answer any questions we also have john wilkerson from the minister will league is here I don't see mr whitmar bit mister welcome since here also so with that will be happy to answer it in questions. Thank you representatives i'll be looks like center bright did you have a question you're recognized I do have a question thank you mister chair in in the conversation as i've had with our our district courts of the northwest arkansas can you remind me of maybe i'm speaking on this but in twenty twenty five is a theoret functional change with amendment eighty that falls district courts into the state it comports that's right and we're sent to a right to the point of just there's just a few district courts throughout the state who have not already become state district courts. Um. Those judges become state employees and were were at that point because I serve on as a exoficio member as does senator stubborn field to what we refer to his decram as the district court reassessment allocation or something but we call it decrease and that's where we look at the district courts whether they've got the case load in that in this so we're really down to just a few district corps that will eventually be state district courts by twenty twenty five so we're just down to there with that being said those judges are stayed employees but then we have their employees could be employees of the city or employees of the county and they're not necessarily employees of the state so we're looking at that and then as if any of you have ever gotten a speeding ticket and i'm sure none of us in this room have ever gotten speeding ticket but those go through district court but out of the speeding ticket fine you've got maybe two dollars goes over here five dollars goes over here money goes every which way out of that and so we're trying to get a handle and that's what we're asking late audit help us get a handle on where all that money where it comes to earn where it goes out what's the cost sharing agreements between the counties and the state are between the counties in the cities those kinds of things it's it's we had great hope to be able to to really look at that system in do a major overhaul but I think mr wilkerson will agree that is a hurklian task and it may be something we your store taking by itself but we need to get started on it absolutely just a power question that is is part of your **** to see why some of our district judges sit inside of a a target behalf of a court room and some artistry judges in a trailer yes okay thank you and if I may also speak to that there may also be where we need to look at do we need all the various divisions within their particular district court. You know into helping cost efficiencies. Representative hodges you're recognized thank you representative dollar europe center some field and just say to curiosity I had a bill this last session that ultimately didn't pass but it dealt with a juvenile court fines in fees some discurious for. All the levels of of reporting in audit situation looking at for these world with these reports specifically can break out due any any revenue that's been generated from juvenile by the children or general court is its own standing entity out of the circuit court system and I briefly looked at the thirty five page report that dealt with circuit courts and I don't remember whether that was dealt with that or not this is not a focus of that we're we're focusing in on just the district courts at that point I think it's a good idea to look at the app that that's not the scope of this bill okay I was told of the time that several of the courts weren't providing that information when it was requested so that's just I know for the future again in to there if I may many of you may be aware of the supreme court has been developing its own reporting system computerized system right now you've got court center some on what's called context wonder court cane action sometimes they don't all report to the supreme court it in the same cell court developing were all the courts will be on the same system it's so they can start getting reports like that. Senator johnson you're recognized thank you miss chairman a representative dollar instead of stuff for your ad first fall thank you for your work on this. You mention that this makes this process makes district judges state employees which retirement system are the s state employees and i'm worried about this in a way we seem to have a trend aware of it as soon as that where jacket is it we seem to have a tree and where circuit judges retire and then run for district judge and I won't use maybe a majority of term but they become double dippers in the retirement systems and i'm not necessarily criticising or condoning that i'm just asking the question about it is where these responsibilities come and I wish I could know the answer to their and I know exactly what you're referring to what's happening in the circuit court system you know we have the limit that cut filed by year so looked into that boy syrahic and I found a bill to do away with that and if you don't think our phones didn't lied up over that one where in the circuit court and above they have to retire at age seventy district court there's no requirement that they retired aged seventy well age seventy what it is now was not what it was forty years ago so II wish I need the answer but they may be too separate but I can find out and let you know I just use from a budgetary standpoint i'd like to know they have said mark we might dust off your previous bill and in the relative that issued not you know and i'm i'm not I understand people warning the retirement to be more I mean that's perfectly normal people and do that but the deal is what you retire and then you know you want to go back and do the same thing in a in a different venue and I just maybe we need to my fish in may for both systems the same whatever that number is maybe. It should be right like we did with self security not we congress from sixty five to sixty six sixty seven whatever just to adjust it for the longevity of how people are living there but sooner what we will do is i'll make a note since several field now make sure that that is something that we address in this task force the task force which is the task forces the senate judiciary committee in the house judiciary community that's your task force and we were we're meeting every three months and will will address that to find out where the retirement system is great thank you for your work on this thank you very much. Senator bry during this year thank you mister just just that are ease could you send us or send staff the two thousand fifteen report senior maybe this is it on the website i'm not sure if it's on the website but we can i'm sure staff has it because it was sent to me and it's a thirty three page report and I would think that there's not a lot of updating in that report it's just continuing that port report down to the district court thank you representative right you're recognized sir thank you mister chairman representative carol it seems like that salary of the prosecutor is paid directly from the street but the turnback money that goes to the counties does that cover the entire salaries of the folks that work for the prosecutor of my. That's a question that we guarantee on tuesday and there is some question as to the turnback and what part is are the counties having to pay in that something representative where I were going to be looking out because we have said that prosecutors are state employees but then counties are paying part of it that may be a little bit far field as to what this particular act is requiring but there is something that is come up and we had a robust I think you could say a robust discussion on their issue on two stay and we'll be looking at that may not be something that comes through the final report because it may be a little bit further far afield as to what we are charged with doing thank you president carol. I'm gonna recognize mr wilkerson who I see in the audience here he was a part of our discussion on tuesday. And he brings a lot of knowledge and inside into this study and it's going to be a big part of it and so i'd like for him to just state generally what the cities and counties involvement is certainly the cities and what he expects to see out of the study I thank you very much john wilker's in general council explained a director for the municipal league so this is an issue that is a retain issue for the cities and countries and what this really started at years ago is try to understand how cost sharing agreements between the cities and counting sort of work and trying to get a hand alignment you know how we can make sure that every city in county has one of those and make sure they know they should have one and and make sure that's all equitable I mean as we grew uh as we sort of that the process sort of grew up we realize that there's a lot of issues with district courts one of the issues that have been brought up already a lot of issues with in the twenty four buckets where the a o j fine fines different funding streams are the thirty mislanes fees that could go on any ticket and that's just became sort of the more we looked into it the more realized there's a lot and rabbit with the district court system and one thing I mentioned earlier this week is that the way I look at the district court law is that there is a baseline of laws and they just sort of get sort attacked on top of each other and sometimes they don't speak to each other necessarily contradict each other but they don't get how exactly the way that they probably should so there's a lot of things to try to unravel and try to understand about the district court system and our goal is to come away from this study where maybe we would use come the conclusions but what do we do those conclusions and what what changes can we make and I agree a a thousand percent with representative dobby my goal is obviously they have this big big bill that you know you're young and look at the citizens changes everything but it is a really really monumental task and so if we can come away with this for two or three big ticket items that we can make some substitute changes and start the process to keep making changes as needed. That's the ultimate goal is as we see it thank you any other questions by committee members all right seeing nine representatives senator stubblefield do you guys have anything else to present we really don't we would just appreciate the committees. Support and approval of sending this and asking legislative audit to do a report within the confines of act thirty eight on the district court level. All right thank you see a motion to request legislative audit to okay see emotion from senator johnson requests legislative bought it to uh conduct this study as requested by representative dollar being senators double field see a second bus senator bright all those in favor say I i'm sorry before we vote senator patent has requested discussion you're recognized in repair thank you mister chairs so my question would be to mister norman as usual what type of tax with this be on your. Staff and in terms and how big of a task is this for you for a lot of slide about it I think it's a century I think is something that we can do I think most of it is is just going to be information gathering it's not going to be at we're out auditing but it's reaching out to the various hands of these and pulling it together and that's one of the things I think on the front end that we need to get with representative dial being centered double field and make sure that we all understand the scope and the on the friday and we're able to get the information and bring it back together and everybody has a good understanding because we don't want to get halfway through gathering information and then so by the way we need to gather some more because there are some time limitations on this and so where we need to get this started and pull it together and back to the task force as soon as possible thank you thank you mister chair. Alright any further discussion setting now and we have a motion to approve legislative audit to work on the study that. Senator stable field representative dollar requested uh motion in a second all those in favor say I all those opposed as her but motion carries thank you thank you mister chair thank you members next on the agenda we have severe county medical center project i'm going to read as mister norman at this time thank you mister chair I received a telephone call last week from a senator and jimmy hiki and there is a a new facility down and severe county there was a bond issue is it's a county hospital members mark a money that went there six point two and senator he he say that he had received some concerns about just the proper use of this fines and he just wanted us to look at that I don't think it's something it would take a lot of time but and uh he did accident bring that up today and seek the approval of the committee to look into that. All right you've heard an explanation from mister norman about senator hickey's request are there any questions senator johnson you're recognized thank you mister norman app up superficially I have no problem with their I would like to know what the red flags or or what the question was you know or our phones could certainly be used for you know something related to health care it was this about the capital expenses at about some programmatic expense and again I know you eat you haven't done this review yet but per and I know that legislator is familiar with the provisions of arpa where they would know what would be an eligible not but is can you give us any kind of a idea what the he wasn't really clear I think part of it did have to do with some may possible capital expenses or other items that may not be allowable uh but he didn't go into a great deal of detail other than he had received some some telton calls about that in the way that I think that the the the hospital like I said it was a it's a new hospital the county is was built the hospital that respond issue and I think a dedicated tax for that and they're entering into some sort of agreement with a private group to run the hospital in this horrible money went to the private group and and so that's what this deals were okay motions proper times true thanksgiving johnson any other questions center patent you're recognized thank you mister chair so what risk do we run in creating a situation where the federal government claw back on the arpa phones well it was it depends on who is a properly used or not i'm i'm not for sure i'm able to answer that of obviously if they were. If they were not speaking correctly then the the failed maxi that the money be repaid okay thank you thank you mister chair any other questions seeing none center johnson's made emotion to approve the auto request second by representative river all those in favor say I all those opposed as habit motion carries senator hickey's request has been approved other business any other business networks all right seeing no other business before the committee the next meeting of the executive committee will be held on january the eleventh twenty twenty four or at the call the chair do I see a motion to adjourn so your motion and a second senator all those in favor say I