State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs Senate and House

Go ahead and take a seat will bring for the actual gavel to gavel in doesn't come in the next minute or two I can do a stimulated our simulated Cavell so thank. I will call this meeting to order. If you can please take your seats. First US senator Caldwell is on his way as the chair of the committee he stuck in traffic and should be here before the meeting is concluded as such he gave me a couple instructions to tell the committee and to the public at whole first there will be public comments allowed in this meeting and secondly I believe we're gonna go out of order of the agenda center call asked that Mister Bradley Phillips and an associate be allowed to testify first and I'm going to honor his wishes assuming the committee has no objection. Represent god dollars you have any comments. Okay first thing we need to consider the adoption of the may twenty first twenty twenty meetings and minutes exhibit C. we have this motion we have a second. All a favor say aye. Any opposed. Thank you with that as a discuss we will go out of order Mr Bradley Phillips and associate I did not get his name from center call we are forgotten Of your. Okay you may come forward and I believe you may have just a two page document to hand out as well correct okay. You can Sir grab that chair and if you move a little bit to the left away so we can maintain that sixty to social distancing if possible. And if needed we will definitely call you and you have your well time to talk. We should be making copies for everybody in committee if you want to please identify yourself for the record and at this time you're allowed to do with testimony. Thank you senator Biden our chairman my name is Bradley Phillips and for the duration of the procurement process I represented river valley relief with me to my left is storm no one from river valley relief and Charles singleton is on my right with new day cultivation. I'm Charles singleton need a cultivation this is Nick landers here he's also in the day and he wants to make a few comments also. Okay rally price start you and we can move on to other comments as we need thank you thank you. Thank you a senators and representatives for allowing me to speak today and and to hear our concerns the medical marijuana process is been a very long and arduous task for everyone involved although it's the people's voice was very clear when it passed the law was not quite so clear it allowed for eight cultivators to grow medicine and forty retail operations to sell it it's no secret that the implementation has not gone smoothly and they're been allegations of wrongdoing and corruption behind many decisions I think that several folks involved in the inner workings of the process of done the best they could with the law that was passed but like anything we do here there's always those who use government for profit it's the inherent nature of our business before we begin telling you about our experiences I want to make it absolutely clear why we are here on July tenth in two weeks the award these from the cultivator procurement will expire with two remaining license is yet to be handed out this entire process that we've gone through will because I'm no no all in void and a new procurement process must be done to get to a ward the next to license seated next to me are I board these number seven and eight which would directly leave the licenses should they be handed out the commission intends to take this issue up again June thirtieth next week and we are here to provide to ask that you provide transparency and fairness in ensuring that we have fairness between now and then we know that you can't make three votes magically appear on a commission for at least the remaining licenses but we know that your eyes in this committee hearing and help ensure that this is a fair process for everyone before coming here we raised a number of alarms as Mister singleton will point out affidavits of bias allegations of ethics and request to reviews of all been met with resistance apathy that's my department or we can't talk about it because the lawsuits going on. The system was created with no oversight we're the only explanation for its actions are well it's not technically a legal well it's not in legal that one of the poorest states in the union has the highest price of wheat in the country forty dollars more per ounce the number to Illinois but it's not right. It's not illegal that twenty five percent of our kids are in poverty and we charge four hundred dollars for a literal we'd but it's not right why is the attitude we can't touch this and let's not fix that why is this the golden calf that everyone's afraid to touch we are lost in the lot in this is not what we parked our car when this process began that it the department of finance and administration said that the initial rollout would require five cultivators for thirty thousand patients. Making the one to six thousand patient ratio the commission issued five permits only three which are now selling marijuana. By the we currently have sixty two thousand patients by the F. A.'s math we need ten cultivators up and running right now by law the soonest the city could citizens can vote to add more will be November of two thousand twenty two and it will take three years to implement that. Why should you care because as Mr Noland and misspoke will testify we sent a very stringent standard for receiving their medical marijuana in our state do not get a false impression of our medical marijuana population they are very sick and very poor these are not drug users these are patients I'm sure everyone of you has a constituent that has a testimony as you can imagine with three manufacturers serving sixty two thousand patients there are indeed pricing problems. We have provided you with over and I'm sorry there patients that simply cannot afford their medicine we provided you with over fifty emails from Arkansas patients who are begging for you to help Mister Nolan will elaborate but a one and a half gram joint costs twenty four dollars and Arkansas. Again twenty four dollars that same joint cost eight dollars in Oklahoma so basically telling our patient you can buy a twenty five dollar joint are you can buy five hydrocodone for five dollars a piece. As you will see in your packet Oklahoma also broke its sales tax record for the fourth month in a row in April it has five thousand cultivators so the the system seems to be working in Oklahoma so I don't know why it's Arkansas the just needs five six cultivators again we are forty we are the most expensive state in the nation forty dollars over number two which is a which Illinois three hundred and ninety four dollars versus three hundred and fifty. That most certainly sounds like a supply and demand problem to me. In February Mister Nolan I asked to testify before the medical marijuana commission to ask them to release the remaining licenses we were denied that chance because of pending litigation in the Abraham carpenter case we were delighted last month when the remaining reserve applicants were allowed to testify before the commission however they didn't ask any questions we were told before hand that supply and demand was the main concern of the commission and we are prepared to make that argument we first encountered problems when attempting to get letters from dispensary owners although many sided problems anonymously only three were brave enough to send a letter the others out right said they were afraid of retribution from the cultivators. So we found it very surprising that commissioner story questioned almost every dispensary renewal as if they were supplied if the ridge supply demand problems being aware of Mr stories business arrangement with the true life family prior to last week's meeting we prepared an affidavit of bias showing on numerous occasions commissioner story has represented the true love family owners of Osage creek cultivation this issue has been raised before with the ethics commission however they are powerless because this did not meet the standards of a procurement despite our affidavits and request for Mr story to recuse himself last meetings went on last week's meeting went on it was one of the strangest meetings I've ever bit witnessed after expecting the meeting to begin with story recusing himself I watched as a member of the true love family who wasn't even on the agenda testifies to the greatness of their facility in the ease in which they could expand as at the meeting couldn't get any stranger it was announced that after much talk it was announced by the AG's office that after much talk to the settlement agreement has been reached and Abraham carpenter would be reinstated into the bidding process as a ward the number six the chair woman then made the motion to release all of the remaining licenses twitch story took exception and offered a motion to release one cultivation Weiss and with no explanation as to why one more growing license made sense as opposed to all three that motion passed and the license went to Mister carpenter and none of us were really sure what it happened until after the meeting even more puzzling Mr story also indicated during the meeting that he would like to see the remaining cultivation dispensary license held for a nother procurement I do not understand why Mr story wants to hold another procurement when he himself scored the one we have right now I do not understand the logic behind the to it behind holding of the procurement and spend hundreds of thousand dollars of a state in the Nord the hundreds of our Kansans like storm and Mister singleton who spent a lot of money putting together. bids. Before I let Mister singleton Mister Nolan go further into details I would like today for us to seek the answers to the following questions if we could DFA said that we needed five cultivators for thirty thousand patients currently we have released six permits for sixty two thousand patients why have we not scrambled to release all eight and one now two years later does DF and eyes math not hold up that we need one cultivator for every six thousand patients. Question two where does the Buck stop in this process when civil procedure violations are ignored by an agency and ethics commission is powerless where do we go in there is clear corruption in violation number three how is it that Abraham carpenter was allowed to stand essentially step out of line to sue the state and then dropped his lawsuit and step back into line is number six and then be awarded the license in the same breath the attorney general's office said they had been discussing settlement with Mister carpenter for quite some time and they had reached an agreement who is we and where did these talks take place it was made very clear to Mister Nolan and Mister singleton is bidders and all of the other hundred and thirty plus bidders that if you sue the state you take your toys and you go home you lose your place in line. Mr no one has come on to the same property the purchase two years ago and still eager and willing to be a partner in the state it was popular opinion that Mister carpenter was going to lose his loss the which he had already lost an appeal. It involved a state director taking a procurement bit home to re invaluable eight why was there such a red rush to settle this lawsuit reinstate Mister carpenter and then award him a license when he had already lost an appeal now the lawsuit is over Mister carpenter has gotten his license and they are free to speak we help the attorney general's office can shed some light on how we got here I'll be careful how we word this but if I was watching an episode of law and order I'd be wondering what I was going to come out in that court case that was so high so hasty to settle. One the world number four one the world which we as a state want to go through another procurement if we already need for additional cultivators and we can hand to out right now what is the reason against that cultivator seven and eight or here before you today both you can look them in the eye and you can ask them questions both of them will guarantee you that if they are granted a license not only will prices go down but they will ensure that patients are given medicine with the most aggressive compassionate care program proposed by anyone now is not the time to hold licenses for another procurement process number five in two parallel worlds we have the racing commission and the ABC happening at the same time on one page of the paper you have a story were racing commissioners having to answer for affidavit of bias in the commission meeting sitting next to his lawyer and to answer for his grading process on the other side of the paper you read were someone I'm sorry not just someone Charles singleton filed an affidavit tion of bias with the A. B. C. however rephrase that X. ABC director Charles singleton filed an affidavit device with the A. B. C. and it was ignored why does a racing commission or have to address an affidavit of bias and a marijuana commissioner does not. At the beginning of this process my father and I became acquainted with Mister Nolan he's a very impressive person and was stream we are extremely obvious to us that his heart was invested as much if not more than his wallet we made it absolutely clear to him that we were not the type of lobbyists to play fast and loose in the procurement of procurement is supposed to be a grueling law hi I'd highly scrutinized process in storms up to the challenge from the beginning he began laying out his plans for the patients and we did ask you if you have any plans on making money our contract with river valley relief ended at the conclusion of the procurement period maybe it's my dad and me but I'm kind of fond of this place that can consider to be sacred a lot of rights when somebody comes here I want to have a good experience and even if they lose I want them to lose knowing that they lost a fight fairly the matter if Mister Nolan was number hundred thirty five or if he was number five he deserves to be treated fairly just like anyone when the state asks for someone to partner with them and they raise their hand accept the challenge I I will yield to the Mister Nolan or Mister singleton at the pleasure of the chair. Sir you're recognized. Again I'm Charles singleton on your behalf new day cultivation we want to thank all of you for listening to us today. The day cultivation is that a company is located in garland county just outside the city limits of hot springs We filed an application for a cultivation Lysons in there to the scoring I'll settle we were finished in that tapper six place. Of course we watched the medical marijuana commission proceedings over last couple years waiting on an opportunity to get a license considered for one of the eight licenses that were available. We we can't have serious concerns about the process and about the integrity of the commission have we learned that Travis story it's gore the application of one of his clients J. and very true the who owned Osage creek cultivation and unbearable. We later learned through press conferences news accounts that commissioner story new his clients were going to file an application for a cultivation Lysons in advance. He stated that he had represented them and would continue to represent them in their permit many business enterprises and interests but he didn't consider that to be a conflict of interest in regard to their cultivation application. He stated that he would continue to represent a. So he knew that they were going to apply FOR cultivation Lysons he knew there were pine because he had represent them for the last twenty years he knew where they were applying because it represent them for the last twenty years and knew the properties they own. He obviously had continue to interact with them during this time frame because it continued represent the mis tech as they're turning. And although the personal names we're tow were redacted from the applications part of the application process was that the. Required the owners to describe the residence is their backgrounds their business interest their personal tax payment records. Ownership of properties and a long litany of information that was required to be in the those applications regarding the owners. So commissioner store Caesar application sees that there location is Carroll County sees that all the required personal information in the and the application about the owners He doesn't recuse he goes ahead and scores or application and I'm total gives his clients that his third high school were that he gave at the ninety five plus a cultivation applications it's COORD. Senate to the schools released one of the cultivation that license applicants ballot lawsuit in Pulaski County circuit court. And raised a number procedural that an ethical irregularities in the commission scoring of the applications. Specifically raised in love. Had to do with commissioner stories conflict of interest and scoring application his clients. In that lawsuit the court entered an order that some of you probably have seen. On the plane this request for a temporary injection to the findings in that order of any the me read those to you. Finding number twelve the court said commissioner Travis story of them and see has served as Attorney for an officer in business entities owned and operated by J. in their true the to persons with ownership interest in C. O. sage creek cultivation. sage creek cultivation as one of the applicant's designated the name MC to be issued a medical marijuana cultivation facility license. Now the paragraph fourteen the court found the participation by commissioner story. In a cultivation facility license application evaluation scoring ranking and selection decision made the decision making process violated the appearance of bias legal standard for men straight and decision making. Has search the cultivation facilities Goring ranking and licensing process in which they participated was a departure from the fundamental fairness required to satisfy due process of law. Instead the court's findings the commissioner story had conflicts of interest and by us and participating and cultivation application of valuation and selection process this. Here we are two years later. The commissioner story still participating in the cultivation license evaluation and selection process. Not only has he continued in these efforts to represent the interests of his clients through his actions on the commission. Those of us who have been watching and listening to the proceedings of commission know that he is assume the role of the facto chairman of the commission. He's directed and to continue his direct and control the agenda is the discussion and apparently the voting. He has support of a couple other commissioners of through most of his efforts of the insured to the always is three votes. Doesn't seem to matter that some of the others that story is unquestionably bastion conflicted in is found to be it has been found of A so back circuit court. To be fair to the other commissioners three of them were recently appointed to commissions possible that they don't know the history that's going and this is possible I don't know the by us and the conflicts. But they need in the. The only remedy that we have that we can figure out at this point is through the. Arkansas law in the Arkansas administrative procedure act. Percent of medical marijuana commission as well as most other state agencies as you all know his or control over the EPA. Arkansas code fifty twenty five fifteen two thirteen. Which has to do with administrative hearings. Under section. One be. States that are presiding officers no officers participating in decision shall conduct themselves in an impartial manner and may at any time with your if they deem themselves disqualified. Any party may file an affidavit of personal by us or disqualification the affidavit shell be ruled on by the agency and granted if timely sufficient and fell in good faith. Need a cultivation our company in river valley relief Mister Jones company both filed affidavits of personal by us. On June fifteenth a day before the commission's hearing on June the sixteenth. Without them with the director Chandler and she advised that she gave each commissioner a copy on June the sixteenth then gave the Attorney General a copy. The a BA says the affidavit shall be granted. Shell be ruled on by the agency and granted if timely sufficient and filed in good faith we believe there are three problems of that the requirement we believe our affidavits were timely we filed on the the day before the commission's meeting we believe they were sufficient we filed the attachments that showed Mr stores representation of the true love and past dealings and we filed a copy of a current order that I just read from that it found him by Stan conflicting. We believe there were filed in good faith because we have a good faith belief based on what's gone before that Mr story is biased toward our company and toward the Mr Ellin's company. We expect our affidavits to be presented to the commission and go down prior to taking at the Gendo on June sixteenth but that didn't happen. Not only did commissioner story continued to participate in discussion and vote on our two applications. As Bradley a city eighties combined Jay true the testify against the applications of himself. And in the end Mr story in these two votes on the commission voted against approving are to have applications. They even though to state representatives and a patient advocate made strong convincing arguments to the commission. That the. That they needed to release those eight cultivators cultivation applications. And that they needed to release the forty dispensaries. And raise the possibility of better products at a lower cost for patients if the commission would do those two things. And they also discussed the fact that the commission's initialization to approve the five cultivation applicants was based on their projections of twenty five thousand thirty thousand patients which they characterized as a mature market hello Jessa of expected there to ever be thirty thirty thousand patients. Patient care up to her has now reached more than sixty two thousand as of last Friday and is still rapidly growing. Current patient numbers alone would send a mandate approval that the two remaining cultivators in the seven remaining dispensaries. However based on recent growth trends most and believe the number of license patients will exceed a hundred thousand for the in the year. Patient numbers will continue to rapidly increase into the future. Mister chairman the center call well that asked that to these graphs be handed out I haven't seen anybody yet to hand them to but he wanted this the poor the record today. That's going to look at him I will look at it before a district amount committee. They continue where looking at that as chairman. There being handed out you continue Sir okay. Medical marijuana commission regulations talk about the the process and talk about to after they have issued the five initial licenses that they would hold they had the option of holding at all the other licenses in reserve for twenty four months which they opted to do. That twenty four months for a cultivation licenses expires on July the eleventh so we're sort of working with a short fuse here. Regulation says the commission may initiate the selection process FOR cultivation facilities. And grant the other remaining at three licenses right now to after the. After the carpenter of license was issued upon determining that there are not enough cultivation facilities to to supply the dispensaries within the state. That's a little bit vague but the handout that you're getting right now. Shows the. The rapid growth of the and the number of patients and if you look at the. The numbers. On January seventh two twenty nineteen there were six thousand eight hundred and forty five patients. As of last Friday on June nineteenth there were sixty two thousand two hundred and ten patients. So the graph below those numbers shows the trajectory of the number of patients which is almost turning straight up as you can see. The next page shows a projected growth rate based on what's happened this past year based on the the the growth that has actually occurred. You can see on that chart that we're starting at sixty two thousand. Based on the same growth rate that we saying an experienced that for January twenty one there will be. A hundred and looks like a hundred and fifteen thousand medical marijuana patients and it still is going is still going up from there. So they're likely in the middle next year there could be. Hi one hundred fifty thousand two hundred thousand possibly billion next year the growth rate continues there is no way that the cultivators that have been licensed can produce in the for that many patients and you're gonna say staff and some these hand out so gonna make you believe that they can't produce enough today for the sixty two thousand patients because of the dispensaries in the. Some of the some of the dispensary owners of tell you about the problems they're having today getting product and not getting what they ordered and only getting flowers when I really want to their patients really want Olson edibles A is just not out there. So. We believe that the. That they should. Read the rest of them today A so we're here to ask for help is briefly sit we don't expect anybody forcing but the vote but we won't we won't the information out there about what is actually happening over there and how it's happened. And we believe that commissioner story because the strap protect the interests of his clients is trying to run the clock at on this he doesn't want us in business. The. And. Looks like in less something happened some divine intervention or some public into it or some political influence that maybe he'll get chance do that we hope he doesn't but the we're just here today to. Try to shine the light on what's going on over there. Again thank you for allowing me to talk today and be happy to answer any questions in but it might have on the. Thank you Sir I don't know if the other two gentlemen having comments but if you do make a very brief I think we've got the gist from the majority of it do you you have a comment or to do the sale the gentleman. The. I'll try to make this short and sweet store no one A so owner river valley relief located in my hometown of Fort Smith as Charles Bailey said we're next in line to receive the two licenses if the commission's decides to to release some. three time here is because. I am passionate about this industry my mom died from an opiate addiction. she was bright corporate attorney educated at you a federal law head raised three boys god fearing us to give you the shirt off her back but she had a dental procedure that went wrong and the only way she could deal with the pain was for my prescription to opiates painkillers. Over time she had to take more and more of those pain killers to deal with it and she ended up dying in a rehab facility and been bill. And I believe should be with us here today if medical marijuana we're option at the time. And so it I hope I hope you can see why this whole conversation should revolve around what is best for the patient's. Amendment ninety eight past I I knew that I merely wanted to be involved because of my experience education resources I could create a company and help shape an industry that was focused on the patients. I form the Arkansas canvas industry association with the help of good team we had patients symposiums all around the state. And and what we saw is not what you would expect we saw patients who were sick suffering in pain cancer PTS the war veterans people that need this these are not young. The people that you might us here to believe think about. I still hear from these patients they are upset they are upset at how things were rolled out they recognize the only twenty two dispensaries are currently open three and one half years after medical marijuana passed in our state at a forty twenty two out of forty. Most are angry now because they cannot afford their medicine. a lot of patients are on disability making twelve hundred a month. Arkansas pricing which I have here. And you can see at three hundred ninety dollars an ounce which came from the Arkansas DFA we are the second highest in our country we are just just behind the district of Columbia in terms of of costs and as you know the the median income for Arkansas residents is is among the lowest. from I'm from a patient perspective in Fort Smith again my home town. If you look up online your options you can get a gram the cheapest Graham you can get is fourteen Bucks and again it that's about what you would consume the evening to take the edge off your pain and and try to get some sleep just three miles down the road in Roland Oklahoma across the state stay online you can get a five dollar Graham again fourteen verses five that the differences competition Oklahoma has has the six thousand Lysons growers. this is it this is not the industry that I'd hope for is not the industry the patient's expected. so. Moving on shortly after the grading I received a call from a well respected Dr northwest Arkansas. He said he gave me and in our legal counsel are very specific and detailed account. he was told directly by the winning cultivator that they have three commissioners in their back pocket. They they also happen received the highest score. The very last line of this document says. I just hope no one goes to prison over any of this. Twenty more issues the of course Charles talked about the Travis toward bias issue I won't cover that again but another commissioner was secretly filmed a meeting in a in a private home of an applicant it was documented on in several new stories he centers on there was a a widely circulated photo of him having a drink at a bar before the scoring came out with the group to whom he gave the highest score. Of course Charles Manson the the judges in the naturals case found conflict. there's an issue with plagiarism one of the another applicant call meeting and and told me about his application being plagiarize by one of the winning cultivators he showed me the word document and where you contract changes there was this gentleman's company name replaced by one of the winning groups and yeah I'm the and I think that it may be under investigation this point the many other accounts of of bad things that happened there was out of state residency issues as you as you probably know the state law requires that sixty percent of a cultivator be owned by our Arkansas residents will there was a a group who's controlling into the claimed one hundred percent percent ownership and control in the Canadian SEC filings again this is all of this is all public information that is not what the law intended. false claims of experience all documented incorrect property boundaries there's a thirty page statistical announce analysis by the PhD who who found this going to be quote inconsistent and the score cards were flawed and again from coming from a piece the analysis those were those are big words. the commission didn't verify the application information scores were change last minute after the grading deadline in these not just allegations these are documented in these hundreds of pages that represent thousands of man hours prepared by people that thought someone would care that that thought someone would listen and make it right and make it right and that's why we're here today because this is our last opportunity to make a right. at the last meeting and Iggy the commissioners haven't acted upon the use and and they were they really broach the subject of these with which is very frustrating. the Charles described the the the last the medical marijuana commission meeting we're we're story asked about supply. And talked about dispensary owners whose livelihoods beholden to the current cultivators feeling pressured not to speak up but. What did what is under me is that pricing wasn't brought up cost wasn't brought up cost is the most important factor when you assess the supply issue. Eight. It is it's the question of relying solely on the opinion of suppliers not not the consumer the patients it's it's a completely illogical argument I I I'm in the hotel business and it would be like Hilton coming in and telling me at that are Hampton in that how do you think is serving the guests well that's not how it works the gasket to give us our score they get to tell us how things are going and so you. I'm not a by a political person that's why Bradley sitting here with me because he says the the legislature is the place to go and they can make things right that's why we're here today the commission as as Charles said has the opportunity on the thirtieth to make this right in my of my last point if I could is. What decision what decision of a wedding so where the pros and cons hi how are they going to reach a rational. Answered to to well not to release these licenses. On on the pro side on the reasons to release these licenses site number one it's what Arkansas voted for in in a recent poll there was overwhelming support to to release these additional licenses and give more dispensaries and cultivators other for patients. Number two increases competition I think most of it almost all of us here agree the free markets the best waited for things to be handled releasing the two cultivation licenses and the and the other seven dispensary that's as close as we can get under the law to a free market. Is this will decrease pricing by the brother talked about letting us B. license and start growing with our compassionate care programs we we are pledging that we will make pricing go down we will make it more affordable for patients. It distributes cultivators more evenly across the state. As you can barely see here you can see that the whole the whole southwest corner recite half of the state is devoid of cultivators so releasing one in garland county hot springs and Sebastian county Fort Smith would would make it a lot a lot closer in and transportation a lot cheaper to the cultivators on that side of the state. I'm passionate you for the opportunity to bring a hundred jobs to my hometown of Fort Smith who desperately needs it. And a study conducted by a boy that found that each of our two facilities could generate fifty million dollars and positive economic impact for each of our communities and Charles mention the licenses expire soon again why he why go through another front selection process when they could be released now. The argument against it why not do one not really sees licenses. And for the life of me I I can't think of a good reason other than a few well the people would like to be slightly wealthier. To close regnant populace right the people rule the people did rule they voted they they made their opinion known and that now the commission used to carry out their wishes. Time to make a right I I remain steadfast and ready to partner with the state our warehouse is ready to be outfitted we could be operational in a matter of months. And it will I just I keep coming back to what what reason could there be for the commission to withhold these licenses and perpetuate a system that exploits the vulnerable while in reach in reaching a few wealthy families. I thank you for your time. Thank you Sir did you have any brief comments. So your name again for the record and you're recognized. Press the button placing be heard on the microphone. Dick landers thank you Sir. I appreciate the the you honorable senators and chairman for having me. My name is like I said Nick landers Porter new day cultivation. I was born and raised in selling county. live in garland county do business in both of those counties. I'm speaking to you today. As a pharmacist to forty seven years. I think we're doing a terrible thing to some of our patients of our opponents or other cultivation serve said that there's of supply there's not a supply problem where there's not a supply problem for them coming to dispensaries which I look at is a pharmacy. The problem is no one from the did dispensaries to the public you're charging people for under fifty dollars or somebody came in my pharmacy and acid your drugs four hundred fifty dollars or just going to turn and walk out and that's what's happening here we've got to get the prices down we we as cultivators have got to come down on our prices you've got to let us go to a so we can bring the prices down so we can complete compete with the black market and that will take care of the opioid crisis and and all the drug problems were having and and danger things like Kate to and and products like that bad rapes that's what you get that's what you get when when you don't get the prices down and compete in the market and we're gonna have this problem as long as those monopolies thereafter if you leave the things the way it is the prices are going to stay up is just free enterprise and that's what I'm telling you the only thing they debated assume was supply they don't understand their break in the supply chain there are people out there that have diabetes there are people out there who did a good gluten free products there are people out there that don't go smoke a joint you got you got people that like me or older people that if they have a problem they want to go in the safety of the house and they don't want Smale the bird know some people like it that's great but there's a market out there for that this very need you know we got cancer patients we got of epilepsy we got muscular dystrophy we got all these things is broken work on what we have we have got the pool together we've got to do research. And and we've got to make a better product there were doing right now and they are breaking the supply chain right now so we'll bring it back if we can get back in this market and get things going so that's all I have to say English do right that's what my Daddy always it is to do right we'll just do right thank you. Thank you of we have questions in the queue I will say minute accusation made before you start I got asked two quick questions yes or no question does the American medical marijuana commission have to so power to issue license to cultivators dispensary yes or no. Okay secondly in the constitution member that was passed by the people does this say that dispensaries must be shall required for but up to eight so the Ford a range is what the people voted on is that correct. For ages cultivation thirty two to forty is dispensary at August twenty forty is that correct only forty I'm sorry yes Sir thank you Senator Ballinger which cedar you in. Or a four you're recognized Thank you Mr. So it I thank the chairman kind of a alluded to this a little bit you know from my standpoint. Whether or not there is additional need I I think there's a lot of data you know that whether the price is right which I only know with the price matters like that that should be the thing that the the market decides I don't think that the commission the sides of the price if as a legislative body we want to with the supermajority pass the bill the tapping price that's a policy decision would have I don't you think the commission is should be taken consideration price it's it's buying demand right they have to make sure that there's a big enough supply in order to to provide the market that's what the law says laden saving about price law says that it's their obligated to to to make sure that there are facilities out there that they can do it. But all that aside my point is that the commission was vested with that responsibility I guess their job to figure that out it is their job to to think about it now we have oversight of every state agency people who know me know that that's something that that is important to me. But I'll tell you that your credibility is terrible with me and I don't mind telling I want everybody here to know the reason is the true love. Not Travis stories clients they were my clients. That my long time friends. People down the road that we bought T. shirts from we did different different different events things with my kids did wrestling we got our T. shirts from the from true love graphics they're good sweet kind people in Berryville Arkansas. Loving Christian France the I did I did we work with them for probably four years before I went to story and the story did business with him for two years not twenty two years not twenty. Thing that you said you said they continue doing business with them I'm so that we stop doing business with a mental why. Because my clients. As soon as we knew that they had a cultivation facility we wound down our business with them. We could continue doing business with the. Why we didn't continue doing business with them yeah we fix the stuff that we have the stuff that we had going on but we didn't touch anything with medical marijuana I know because you're out there talking about the corruption I. That. Option effect. Many of even allow us to do some business with them. That you know why because we want to avoid the even up the appearance of corruption so what we did is we stopped we didn't I could be doing legal work form right now with the medical marijuana industry and I don't why because the even the appearance to my on her to my financial hurt now. Their business is only a small part of the firm Travis didn't didn't give her much by stopping doing business with them I did. Because my best clients well my biggest clients my clients. It's. Section. Section I get it I totally understand that you guys an awkward spot right you spend a lot of monies paid lobbyists who paid attorney if you went to court trying to prove that there was corruption did we did everything you could to try to make sure that you had in here you are at the last moment your last opportunity to maybe be able to get the license without him to start over and I understand like you throwing it all against the will and that's reasonable. But in my name and my name in the dirt I'm sorry what you have no credibility you guys look like you are willing to do anything in order to try to get where you're at where you where you want to be. And that's something that I I I deal because of my experience and what I know. Right period and my colleagues who need to know that. Four dollars a joint committee does want you know I just really short amount of research I grew. I thank everybody in here the price of marijuana by state that's all you have to do things out there what it shows the box from the study of whatever it showed that we are the cheapest of everybody besides Texas the surrounding states. With the cheapest. That's taxes by anthem by by the amount of joint. The cheapest now you know I'm an the one thing I know is that you know as you can get a statistics to say whatever you want that was the first thing that popped up when I Google that. So it and by the way if you have six thousand cultivation facilities I bet you there's a lot of dead grass out there really junky stuff and if you start comparing actually you know the quality of stuff I bet you would lose what I what I'm hearing what I'm saying is published daily compatible with of the state. That even matters like what matters is do we best the the then with responsibility and did they do the response but or other than to quote scoundrels. Just the side dealing just. And I'll tell you come here you telling that to the this group of people that offends me get five right in the middle that and I know me. World I know my character. Lost more to maintain keep that. Sir if you can have a brief comment in response to center Ballenger center senator Ballenger I I don't think I disagree with anything that you just said the question is why didn't commissioner story recuse himself all all of everything that's fine I have a partner to in my name's on his letterhead. But. But what my partner does affect me and what I do affects him there is absolutely nothing wrong and we truly believe in true love family is a wonderful family the committee the question is why did your partner not recuse himself from the process when they were affidavits advice and it wasn't even addressed now it has the at the racing commission it has to be addressed for some reason he didn't have to address and and the last thing you said is the price doesn't matter and I think that you said absolutely summed it up the price does not matter due to what the patients are pain and nobody cares that and all of our documentation that we have you have a three hundred fifty page document in your email citing all of our sources so I know that you can Google anything and find anything you want what we did a little bit of our homework on this but I would apologize if there's anything that we have done that have offended you we have not made any accusation that you've done anything wrong. And say and center Trevor stories names or signed on those documents. He's the one that signed all of the documents on behalf. What I mean. I don't understand. I don't understand some of your your point about that that I mean that yes they were your client but they were in a firm that he worked for and his signature is on those documents there's nothing wrong with that the question was why didn't he recused himself from the meeting last Tuesday in which we raised issues of his bias. At in and I know that Mister chairman that the conversation is really not appropriate and in the committee room but may address his is questions to me I'm a little leeway because of the emotional nature of this testimony I will say may come as a brief in and after that we need to move on the dish of questions yes so. It. Has not had any business in fact I believe in doing business with with the story now we work we are no longer doesn't get he's not had any business with the tools in a long time so my guess is really probably all of the little stories that it keeps pushing around the originally originated by you know some media have jobs and all that kind all the junk that keeps getting pushed around have nothing to do with what his job is we're in a small state I guarantee of the week we can play the little Kevin bacon game and we can find somebody who's connected to somebody who's connected to somebody who's gonna to some by with all of us right and so if it chooses the what that what does that do to the commission and that's for members right that would just a clear that's not a very good committee to try to to have a vote on in effect you would have up to two split vote is what you would have hello how everyone else voted so the what I would say is you know if you decided to do that and I get why you guys are going down that path and we start you said you said corruption use an all of the corruption right if there is any question I was right there in the middle of it because they were my clients. He signed off on he was on the farm if I was in session he may sign something that my clients so if you're if there is corruption I was right in the middle of that right you said corruption and so you know if that's the direction you want to go don't be surprised when people get upset you when you have to tell slandering people's name back like there was some club when the was investigation there's a bunch I think that that went on that is prudent there wasn't direct corruption but the the point is. That. I don't I I mean I can't I mean it be nice if we actually had a chance to bring in the the commissioners may be nice of if there's opting for for the public to come in and comment on the other side and we can have this this conversation I can't speak for for Travis what I can say in what I do know is that there was no corruption none and that a lot of information you shared with find out why some I don't know that because I know what an item from my standpoint yell at you have no credibility zero credibility with. center Ballenger I think that's the good point to mobile phone I will say that our staff said that we invited the commissioners to be attending meetings and it was done late Friday there was an issue would try to get by he'll the attorney general's office called me about them come and so I don't want to. Give any kind of opinion toward that is just what our staffs to this. Do we know about this meeting late Friday. Yes Sir we did. Are moving own I think we have C. eighty six which should be represented house represent of house thank you. Thank you Mr Speaker I'm voices cracking to be at. Mister singleton which court case would you cite the court found that there was bias and. I don't always discreet courts but courts have findings then they become law and so that kind of puts whatever issue there is to rest about bias the thank you Representative house of I thank you have a copy the affidavit of by affidavit of vices that we both filed with the commission attached to that is a copy of the case naturalists health your level C. verses Arkansas department of finance administration. ABC division and the Arkansas medical marijuana commission case number sixty see the days eighteen days fifteen fifty nine. And the two findings that I read into the record or found on page four and five of that opinion okay Mister Ballenger center Ballenger's name was not mentioned was it. up no Sir okay thank you he was involved with that stores we know okay thank you up follow up question on legal procedure and I see a. Director Chandler Doorly Chandler in a back room she'll T. I have consciously made a deliberate effort never again affair with any commissions business or decision making and haven't done so yet don't intend to start but when you do have a member of an administrative ruling body who has. A court finding. Of any an allegation G. went over the administrative procedure but disqualification from an issue. What is the remedy for removal is that this legislature is that the governor is impeachment would you elaborate on that please under the. Excuse me under the APA the remedy is that the agency itself takes a vote on whether or not a member of that agency should be recuse for bias. Edwards is discussed in the vote among the five commissioners. May I follow up on more Mr chairman yes Sir okay now we're talking about bias in a particular case but if there is an allegation and approval ball R. as substantially provable A some measure does the governor had the authority to remove a commissioner under those circumstances. I've always thought so the governor did not appoint to the Mr story he appointed chairman of the commission the other four of them point it does present pro tem and Speaker of the house Senate but. I thank it's been common in past situations where the governor with the ask someone to to resign based on. Based on conflicts of interest in the US thank you Mr. C. twenty two what should be Senator hammer Senator hammer you're recognized thank you Mr chair would you just I mean with all the statement said been made in the room today from the presenters I'm just curious litigation wise what you're remedy moving forward just to give me an education if with the strong claims that you've made today is our current litigation going on litigation was filed or what are you all looking for coming here today no Sir there we've not filed any litigation we've we've watched a lot of litigation transparent over the last two three years but we've not been involved in any of it I don't we have I don't think they. But the. Then and we don't know what's going to happen yet so we don't know where we're going from this point forward the appeal would be. The amendment straight of agency decision back to circuit court probably in Pulaski County if the. Anybody chose to do that. Is it felt Mr thank you. So are you at liberty are willing to say today that based on everything you know because this is kind of played out I think in the last few days going to last week at are you anticipating that on the basis of what you here giving testimony for day that you would try to file some sort of litigation or something that would You know postpone. The July date that you're talking about we have not to talk about do anything to postpone that July date we have talked about the if they fail to act on or having dates of by this what we might do in that case and the. We would probably take up some sort of appeal if they don't dress device issue and do what they. Solution to do and situation are thank you Mr. See ninety Ripley center Clark C. seventy one actively QTL so if you could re at at yourself that be great thank you ma'am. Thank you Mr chair. By myself. In an odd position. The on this issue as a fundamental evangelical. The. One of the most open motion to much lately I spent a lot of time this last week with a friend has a seal S.. It is one of previous line of work he was not very fond of. Times he had to go in. With families except for work. Marijuana was being used so no one always the case but. So it. Found it odd that he would be used. And after coming down from the high. Regains motor skills we didn't have before. For a short while they don't know what. Another friend with the terminal liver disease. That's live ten years past what he was supposed to they don't know what. And. Chronic pain. And he says it helps a great deal. And I will tell you prosperous matter. And because I've talked about this on a social media Facebook page. Some of these charts the center Belcher talked about people talk about process. The problem was some of those charts with the probably the exact same chart is it gives the process FOR states across the country including fifteen state towards completely legal. so we wonder exactly how they came up with those prices if they came for legal sources or other sources. Of those who got in on the conversation who are actually using it medically have confirmed that it is three times as high in Arkansas as it is an Oklahoma and of. The got an email from dragon percent tech who is the biggest retailer in the state to send hot springs or I am. Of and with a lot of text except pro from suppliers and I hope that the Germans look in those over hope to hand those out deal. Of. Talking about the shortages talking about the process increases from already high prices. Of because there's not a market. Price when you have a limited number retailers and you have only three. Producers. And. You know. I didn't support this amendment. Because it was a terrible amendment. although I'm grateful that those who need it have been able to get it. I don't give a rat's rear end about any of these suppliers any of these retailers. Don't give a rat's rear end about rich people getting richer. But I do care about the people. As you do. Who are sick. Who are looking for some help relieve. And I've been second by watching this commission. So would ask you. Those price matter. The list of bills can talk to the software than I can but. You know the average income in our state. You know the pricing DFA says three ninety per ounce. that's directly from the state and. A user a medical marijuana patient who who is using cannabis to to treat something like chronic pain could could very easily use an ounce and a half to two ounces a month. that would be considered a normal kind of that kind of dosage and in if you do the math there. That is it a huge percentage of someone's disposable income. Senate interrupt real quick Make sure I understand correctly that the email that I'm distributed out now is from an individual in your district that you know of who sent this correspondence to you and others correct this front dragon descent to the largest retailer in the state is from actual retailer okay yes one make clarify couldn't really fall the email thread but obviously out trust your judgment on this I to get chance to read through the multi page document but appears be critical information saw allow the committee to have it thank you and it confirms. The price increases the shortages. Of except for that currently exist and the hop processing that currently exist. The. And. And I think we all know this is more rhetorical question because we all know the answer this we live in a capitalist nation capital society capitalist economy. The number of suppliers matters when it comes to process doesn't it. Okay. The. I personally and probably will work to the sand and your clients may not. And you the mail like this to to change the law to where there are more than eight supply. But it is extremely important is it not that we get up to eight as fast as possible. For the good of those who need it. Thank you. Thank you Mr chair. Thank you. Representative flowers. You're recognized. Her records thank you Mr chair. I'm I'm. Wanting to Clarify a couple of things since I. I have been involved and privy to this process and some of the things that we're described. In your testimony For the benefit of my colleagues so the first thing I wanted to point I wanted to make is that that meeting. Was weird. And different. A it wasn't wearing different though because necessarily having anything to do with Mister carpenter and I feel. Moved to say something so that people are clear about what happened with that and that's where I got involved in this. Mr carpenters A complaint from the beginning of that process from the day after the. the winners were announced. Of was something that I have heard about in involved in and since that day because he was scored. And delving into that process and learning about some of the things that have happened greatly disturbed me as well as several at least four of my colleagues all of us who were involved in met. With people with D. F. and A and the commission and its staff in the governor's office and ultimately Mister carpenter was advised to pursue the legal process. Because of the process that has been laid out by the law and by rules and rex. He did that and the Supreme Court this one all the way up to the Arkansas Supreme Court. In a six to one decision. Of that indicated some of what was described as corruption and I didn't hear. your. opinion I heard you referred to what the Supreme Court said. And and that's what I heard discussed and what I read about and so I think that's a separate matter for us to be concerned about and possibly do something about as we move forward. but I want to make it clear that Mister carpenter who is from my neck of the woods it's not in my district but from my neck of the woods is a very well respected of. Person businessman of. And follow the rules and was scored. He utilized and paid for a process that lasted over two years. And our Arkansas state Supreme Court made a decision that said that his case should move forward and I believe that because of those considerations and what we often see when organizations and companies make a decision to settle is what ensued and I believe also believe that the commission the full commission agreed that. Once that settlement was made aware and they voted for that that Fairness it should take place in what they know happened and what the Supreme Court recognized. That aside the other points that I would like to make and make sure that my colleagues are aware of is that the chair. Of the commission. Made one of the most impassioned logical. Speeches and remarks as it relates to this process that I have heard to date and she not only made a motion to award the remaining three licenses she also made a motion to award the remaining dispensary licenses. And it was others on the committee in a conversation and discussion that was led by commissioners story that sounded like change the trajectory of the conversation and ultimately change the motion that the members ended up voting for. A. Myself and Representative Richardson spoke. before we heard from the chair and even knew that she was going to do that of along with an advocate and several others. Who agreed that those all of those licenses should be awarded for a number of reasons we heard from Representative Richardson because he represents Fort Smith and he had documentation. That there were are people who are traveling over the border. To purchase of these products these medical marijuana products of to their own detriment in having to make that trip. But also to the detriment of this process and to Dispensaries there was one dispensary who did speak of of issues with supply. And so all of those things I think were very compelling to many people who were on that call. And while I don't know what this committee could do given that that process is what it is and that the AG's office may their settlement decision that the commission voted for it and that the commission voted the way that it did. You know we do have until July tenth and all those commissioners are also citizens of the state and their appointees and perhaps if. My colleagues go back and look and look at and listen to the testimony might feel compelled to You know reach out and you know based upon what we know that the law of says and what are votes were many of us and what the intent is for patients. You know that was what was so compelling about the chair woman's remarks. The intent for patients what we just heard from senator Clark about the intent for patients. Is what everyone of us should be concerned about more than anything and if our own state agency provided the data upon which the commission made its decision to offer thirty two and later thirty three dispensary licenses and before that five of seven are skews me five of eight. That data should be considered. That data should be the basis of of what we look at in determining whether or not we try to weigh in so that we don't spend another three years and another excuse me for years and another anywhere from a quarter million to half a million dollars in man and woman power in consultant's fees and every other costs that has been a new word by of or spent by people involved in this process. So with that I would like to thank you for your testimony for bringing this information to these to the body of the house and Senate in this committee. And let you know that you do have credibility I think with many people in this room and with the state certainly with the patients who we could be serving instead of arguing about this and asked citizens yourselves of the state of Arkansas thank you. Carter. Yes Sir you members are at a they usually end with a question on those I'm sorry I want to add to your comments represented flowers and amend our testimony to make absolutely clear that everyone at this table thanks that Abraham carpenters a stand up man we all we're proud to have him as a applicant with this and so I did not want to cast any doubt on Abraham carpenter as a man however I did wish to cast doubt on the process that he was participating in. Thank you Boyd next we have Representative rye Representative rye you're recognized see twenty three. Thank you Sir. I just feel like when we walked through those doors. There we we really need to leave our self behind. I need to think about the people of this state. You know there's people that were against the US but there were people that were far this. And I think that it being medical marijuana. Can take the place. Of all boards in a lot of cases. And there's a lot of poor people in this state. And I think that the folks in Arkansas expect us to do deliver and do the things that are right and I don't think it's that hard if we will just do what is right. I think that price. You got a lot of poor people in this state. In price is going to make a difference. So if you've got five dispensaries out there are our growers cultivators and you can move date is how will cost us any sign to include free more if we include three more that's going to be a better competition. And and I don't think that is is set heartedness Asian to Mike I think we can do what is right and I think the people on this commission I don't that are making decisions I don't guess I know any of. But I'll say this much they're working for the people of this state to. And I think we need to do what's right move this thing I own and not get mad you know would only get married folks I think we just need to attract. DO you agree. Good. Senator Chesterfield C. eighty center chest feel you're recognized thank you Mr chair of as we. Consider this issue and I think it is imperative that we do because. Those of us who supported this from the beginning as ID it felt that we had so many sick people that we could use natural supplements to help them A in pain but Mr chair I have a question for you. If we gave a if if this committee decided. To. Give um to take a vote on the wheel of the body or counsel have a wheel of the body to move this board because we've been sitting on the same number for so long they did make any sense so I'm just wondering what are your thoughts going forward since we have this this meeting here and I think it is in a very important one but at some point they've got to move to what the people of the state see it we won't what's holding us up from having the number of cultivation site what's holding this up from having the number of dispensaries and if we were to give a wheel of this body at some point in time do you think that might have an influence. Sir just feels as directed me first as I stated we have no constitutional legal authority over the issuance of licenses we your question is we would be able to as a body send a recommendation for proceeding Ford out at check which checks staff on what that recommendation would look like and if that would be a proper motion it I'm not going to make a motion but if if staff agrees with that assessment in the interim you're more than welcome to make that motion in the body as a whole can make a determination but I have to discuss that we staff for move for well thank you Mr chair and and I hope you will because I think it's something that we need to be looking at this this is been dragging along not trying to put you on the spot but I'm trying to get a feel for the body since we've been dealing with this for a very long time I think it would be interesting in a council meeting not necessarily this committee but in council to have them have staff research what are options might be and that we might get a wheel of the body to move for it since we seem to be stuck in time thank you Mr chair. Number twenty two Senator hammer represent house if you can get back in the queue I hit the wrong button again thank you Sir. Thank you Mr chair can find ourselves a little bit of a he said she said kind of moment here because of different things being said by everybody saw come on lay all that stuff to the side and and get just kind of to the basics what points were you not chosen that. Were given to you that precluded you being awarded to be able to start. Was there was there anything in the process that they point to it said you haven't met this this and this and that's why you should be allowed to open up. Senator not that I'm aware of each commissioner score each applicant with the Ross school were at the end the process the scores of each commissioner added together. And that's how the the applications were ranked as I said earlier hi two companies tied for number six at that point with Mr Carter being put back in the queue then now we're tied for number seven but I don't know that it was any specific deficiency in there that that we were greeted downtown just to. Positive all the scores added together so there were no deficiencies that were pointed out to you that would preclude you from being able to open up and begin house Sir no Sir we had a great application we thought and we covered everything and we didn't have any deficiencies okay and how much in your opinion of the decision hands down defaced calculation you've given us the chart you know there was the original but I guess that's part one having a hard time getting by is if the original estimate was six thousand you would think that once you got to that point that that would have been a consideration and decision that as long as all things being equal and no deficiencies being found that you would have been allowed to be granted the license to open up and begin to grow if you if you take away all those arguments right we without going in that all eight would get a license would be approved the commission. talked about it and then they can of backtracked and decided to five would be the number based on without a time is based on the if a attorneys Advice and and recommendation that's what we were told at the time that we have with nation they were told that the number was twenty five thousand patients that they based their five the cultivators on the number twenty five thousand and that they talked about they considered would be of the term market otherwise that's all they ever expected to be out there. So you know if you look at that and do the do the math the right now they with sixty two thousand based on those numbers we would need. Ten or more cultivators course. Constitutional amendment lessons have eight that the based on the numbers that the cultivators would needed with with the and well well in excess of ten at this point based on those numbers are and last question and maybe represent of house can answer this feel camp but in the in the framework of the constitutional amendment remind me did it did it restrict. All eight from being awarded on the basis of the FAA's recommendation or estimate of six thousand was any restrictions as far as that being used as a criteria to eliminate you from being help able to open up what notions constitution just says somewhere between four and eight you know that was the range of licenses. But as far as the number that was it referred to and it will host was not so you should be able to open up all eight as long as free market supports and then it's gonna be survival of the fittest that's correct like like in every other business in the world thank you thank Mister. Absent house record recognized thank you Mr chairman just a couple of. The miss Nolan you probably know the answer this back in may the Oklahoma legislature voted to grant had a permit status state residents Senate to the governor did that become law and state of Oklahoma. Yes Sir I believe then I know several people FOR Smith that have that okay can you just back and forth with me let's compare and contrast doctor's appointment Arkansas to get a card is about two hundred fifty and it's about ninety nine dollars a hundred dollars in Oklahoma my correct. I've seen appointments range from a hundred fifty to two hundred to two fifty maybe in Oklahoma and Arkansas in Arkansas okay and it but I do know it's ninety nine and in Oklahoma City there are six thousand licensed growers in Oklahoma now yes Sir and Two thousand two hundred dispensaries if my information is correct and up to date. Two thousand two hundred I know there's fourteen hundred of them in Oklahoma City in my correct. It is seven thousand I I do know that okay. And you had a chart in its first time I've seen those numbers announcing in Fort Smith cost how much and how much does it cost for miles down the road yes for the so that was from wi fi which is a common program the patients use the compare pricing or what's available which dispensary and and you again. You could go go there and and just take a look at what they got. Okay thank you Mr chairman thank you it's see no further questions a German your time's up we'll call the next in the agenda we have six people in the restaurant. Thank you yes Sir six people if they can come for the next six people on the agenda Owsley with the social disease scene will have to kind of figure out the best way to do it And they will take longer you want more flee from so we'll just have directly Chandler you can see set up front Director. Castle at front and then. The. One of the people with the attorney general's office at the desk the rest of you can probably sit in the back to your call upon that they are the best way to handle that unless you have a statement and we will allow you to come for to make a statement as we go through. All you are recognized would ever or you want to if you say your name for the record if you have a statement thank you. Doorly Chandler director about called beverage control. May robin Casteel former director of the alcoholic beverage control. in race the deputy Attorney General in charge of state agencies and one of the attorneys that represents the medical marijuana commission. And if the rest want to stand up and say their name for the committee we'll do it that way the best way to ten on. Yes today. Is Mister Parker here is the. Yes Sir. You feel my **** four as well I said you have differs perspective not being a government official being poor these chairs up or grab the other chair thing to be appropriate. Thank you does anybody have a statement or response to the prior testimony. Mister Parker do you have something to say yes Mister chairman I'm sorry I was trying to get the Mike to work I would like to make a statement but I did know with the be appropriate to after the officials with the state agencies Have any prepared statements or say what they have to say or answer any questions I'll be glad to either do it now do it later let's do this by director do you have a prepared statement. Director do you have a prior statement. I do not Sir do you have a fair statement no I have all the to the back. You're a miss Parker. Thank you Mr chairman as I mentioned if you didn't hear me my name is don Parker I am president of delta medical cannabis company one of the five licensed cultivators in the state our agency you may or may not be aware there are currently three lice and cultivators in operation all of whom are are adequately supplying the sixty two thousand patients that we currently have in Arkansas. delta medical along with the other cultivated this located in Newport Arkansas it's natural state wellness will be ready and have product available for sale through the dispensaries starting the first of July for natural state delta medical should have some product available for sale. In August. I just want this committee and those of you who are representatives and senators that are not on the committee but it tending today. To understand that when these five cultivators and and again I think it would probably good ideas step back in and go back to the process. We all knew who we applied for a license they were going to be five cultivation license issued. We are fully aware that they were three being held for when they were needed. Subsequent to the award is when the commission decided to hold all of the applications of four period of two years. Hence the reason this push now is that two years expires July the tent. The five license cultivators are not at all opposed additions of more licenses. But what we want would like for this committee and as we made the statement to the marijuana commission. We don't think the time is right contrary to what some of you have expressed. We all applied knowing they were gonna be five licenses awarded you've got to cultivation facilities that are not even operational. But when we are operational on with the other three cultivators that are. There we will employ over two hundred and fifty to three hundred people and we will have invested in this state in our infrastructure over seventy five million dollars. Is this committee may be aware of funds through the traditional sources such as banks are not available we can't borrow money to build these facilities we have to build these facilities with cash out of our pockets. And make those improvements all without the aid primarily due to the fact that marijuana is still federally illegal. So we will take a while just for the regular just for the five cultivators to recoup their investment. As I mentioned the C3 cultivate is a currently supplying the demand of sixty thousand patients. Listening to the testimony I got a text from all three of the cultivators that are watching this preceding this afternoon all of whom said they have plenty. Our me plenty of oils and edible sitting in their wall ready for sale. So supply is not the issue. In the renewal process the marijuana commission I ask every. Dispensary that came before it. Are you seeing in supply issues the answer was a resounding no. They did acknowledge there some strange that they can't get but that simply because they are not available. I do think that the five cultivators will be able to readily handle at least a hundred and ten thousand patients that's before taking into account the additional license that has been issued Mister carpenter and the our twelve or thirteen dispensaries that will also be growing of marijuana in their dispensary for sale not only through their dispensary but through other dispensaries. I also want to talk moment about prices. I have so much as some information that I'd like to share with you after after we conclude today. But the information that we have been able to obtain from couple of readily available sources. Rice of we dot com in business insider. Show the prices of marijuana per ounce. In the twenty one medical states that have medical marijuana. Arkansas falls squarely in the middle at number ten. I would also like to point out that when we talk about the price of a joint which was mentioned in the previous presentation that we can't sell joints in Arkansas. They can sell joints in Oklahoma. What I'm told I don't smoke but what I'm told is typically it takes a half a gram to roll a joint. I know in and Spencer I'm involved in which is pure spirit and faith bill. And also checked with the dispenser this located in Jonesborough. The date. Both sale grams for ten to twelve dollars a gram. If a half a gram if it takes to do I have a grand for a joint that's I have a six dollars for joint that is before tax so you got I had tax to that but it's still. Roughly equivalent to what someone pays in Oklahoma. So that is strictly a mess. You want to compare it to Oklahoma and talk about all the lice and cultivators there can you imagine what it must be like from enforcement standpoint not to mention public health and safety. There are number dispensaries that are selling in Oklahoma that don't have running water. Do you really want to turn that kind of system loose on the people of Arkansas I hope not. Arkansas dispensaries also almost without fail offer compassionate care prices for press for programs for to lower prices for veterans lower income individuals terminally ill and other patients. I just want you to realize that Arkansas is still in a start up phase yes it's taken longer than we would have line I wish that delta medical we have been up and selling for your now. We had our challenges in the beginning we were challenged with the issuance of our license. It took us six months to get approval to move down the street because we were concerned that there might be some legislation adopted by this body that would prohibit us from building next adjacent to issue new port but it took us six months to get that passed to the commission we should have been selling six months ago in all honesty. But that's not the case. But we all have invested very heavily. In this in this set industry. And we firmly believe in accordance with the with the commission's rules. That the issuance of additional licenses should be based on a determined need for additional supplies. The rules don't say anything about prices although I readily admit that prices are important and it's important for the patients of this state. I would like you all to be aware as well that the cultivators that are in business that have been selling they have seen the prices. Four where where they started when they opened the prices have already fallen by thirty five percent. Now I don't know whether that's being passed along to the consumer but I do know from the cultivated standpoint those prices have decreased by thirty five percent and with two more cultivation and then another six coming on I suspect we will see for the reduction in the prices charged by the a cultivators to the dispensaries. As I mentioned we do not oppose the additional issuance of licenses we just don't think it's the right time. What we wished it happened for the benefit of our our colleagues who who came in a seventh and eight is that the deadline of June the arbitrate deadline of July tenth have been extended. That obviously didn't happen. And I don't know they could be at this point. In any event. For the face foreseeable for future we do believe that the patient a band is being adequately met by the license cultivators particular with the additional license coming online and the license of the I mean I'm sorry the cultivation of being conducted by the two. Twelve or thirteen dispensaries thank you Mr chairman I would welcome any questions thank you all of the girls stored so do we know the actor number of patients that we have right now who were issued a medical marijuana. Carter required we would terminate we have to sixty two to ten on this figure but I don't know if you have something different. I think that was the number as of Friday. Okay assuming that in the maximum allowed per month is two point five ounces per patient is that correct which should be roughly a hundred and fifty five thousand are balances which divided by sixteen would be nine thousand seven hundred twenty pounds what is the average. For lack of a better term because I am not medical marijuana expert that a dispensary can produce and poundage or else is per month I either from yourself or from anybody who may have that official number which may be reported. I do know that it typically we are at the three cultivators are producing I believe the number is three thousand four five four five hundred pounds per month. So call thirty five hundred thirty five hundred and I think that with the two additional cultivators we ought to be adding another two thousand at twenty two hundred pounds you know when you start this process it takes unfortunately to may it's it's much like a manufacturing process but it's also a farming operation and it does take a little bit of time to get everything dialed in. they're basically two types of cultivators of the growing greenhouse those grow in a warehouse we've got both Arkansas in so the dynamics are both different but it takes a few crops to get to get going in a facility we will be harvesting every week once a week when we start harvesting in middle Jett millage ally any the director's is there any kind of the numbers we have dispensary required to report how much the producers any kind of tracking of that by the government officials. There are not required to report that data or see to sell tracking does allow us I presented the commission before the last two commissions the amount of flour white per day of from the cultivators that is on hand they had that data as well as the inventory counts that are being held by the cultivators we provided them with the sales figures and poundage. As well as the all inventory counts in the dispensaries before the commission meeting and I'll move on to the dish a question by one finishes thread. Is it. Even if every person who's a pet currently a patient issue the court right now went to the two point five maximum houses which a managing some do and some don't depending on the patient's selves it seems to me by the roll numbers unless a miscalculation the supply is there. In total is that a fair assessment or is it is it something you can determine our miss park if you will give your opinion after the director's I think that the appropriate. I did not add up the total of per day on these figures it's easy enough to be added up but based upon looking at the figures the math look appears to work out to where the that is there miss Parker do you have any kind of the pro in amber alerts here I would say that based on our experience it her spirit as well as of the dispensaries that I've talked to about ten to fifteen percent of the patients Max out if you will in purchasing two and a half ounces ever fourteen days most patients are far less than that hence I think the the the reason there in again I wasn't involved in the early stages of this but when you talk about twenty five to thirty thousand projected patients when we started this program when we look at projections we were using two and a half ounces purchased by every patient every two and a half to our fourteen days so you can see that it based on those numbers you would think that we would be at not having sufficient supply but the fact is patience don't buy or need that much. I want every fourteen days okay I think that is my question actually thank you so much I'm going to my vice chair represent dollars all. By Mister Just looking for some these text messages and emails that are in in the package it looks like the supply problem is not an overall problem I think that's what Senator garner was just getting at but it's specific strands. Are these patients. I'm not color prescription because on a note can't really be prescribed because it's not a legal medicine I guess are they recommended a specific strand to buy when they get there marijuana Carter's that just a preference that they have the the the strand that they want to buy this just happens to be in short supply the time. So when they receive their patient card they are not prescribed a first Pacific strain to accomplish what they are being described the card for their issued a patient Kerr they then go can go to the dispensary dispensaries have pharmacists on site or by telephone to discuss the different strains that might meet the needs of the patient. So they don't have a specific string they're going there for unless they have researched one and determined one of their own. I come at it from a ms chairman I just wanted to add the director Chandler the the cultivators today have over two hundred strains that are in production there is an effort made by all cultivators to Educate each of the dispensaries the dispensaries dispensed the medicine through individuals call but tenders. And the bartenders are overall my experience has been the **** tenders are all very knowledgeable about the strains the terpenes that terpene profiles the can of annoyed profiles and that they're very familiar with what types of profiles would best suit them for whatever condition they have also all of the for all the expense race have the the pharmacists pharmacist on site or pharmacist available to consult with any patient at any time Sir you're telling me different strains due to treat different illnesses differently that is correct and is also it just so happens that no strain reacts the same way with across the individuals everyone reacts differently so that's once a little bit more of a trial and error okay so so it could be a real issue of these. Patients are are trying to treat a specific illness and that. In the and I can't get that specific strain amend I thought marijuana was marijuana obviously not educated in this. I thought it was all the same people just trying to get out of it. Anyway. A lot education as well so so it's not and and. I guess my point would be it if the Dispenser's aren't completely running out of marijuana there there they have it in stock it's just the particular strain that you perform may not be available at that time there's only so much of a particular strain that usually came to grow on any time and when you think about it you've got two hundred strains that are currently being grown in five cultivation facilities and there's only so much real estate if you will devoted to each trying. And you have to make those decisions eight nine months out from when you gonna sell it for correct thank you I'm sure. Thank you believe next we have Senator hammer center happen here you're recognized thank you just for illustration make sure got the concept down two hundred strangers kinda like stock in a grocery store you gonna which customer supply and demand is going to be as you build your customer base and get to know the regular customers to come in which one you're going to order or not order in order to be supplies that a fair assessment that's fair that's coming back remember that's coming back to the dispensaries communicating to the cultivators the cultivators do not have direct contact with the patients okay so is it your testimony that for the where we are with the number of patients we have in the state today that the current number growers are able to supply. To the demand in any one or all of the two hundred strains. That's a specific question more in Tyler to each cultivator. But I can tell you is or what we've seen so far in this is typical in every my immature market. When when a state goes met usually they go medical guess without exception they go medical before they go recreational. you typically find that most patients to they become more educated about terpene profiles T. H. C. two C. B. D. ratios and how that impacts whatever condition they have they lean towards more of a high THC content flower so as a result you see a cultivators producing more strains that are more are higher in THC content than anything else okay we'll get you on record because of something you just said you said typically it starts off medical then it goes recreational was that the intent all along in Arkansas was to get it started with medical and with the end game being getting it to recreational I have no idea what the initial plan was of those who put forth the amendment because I know in every state you start it always starts with medical the states that are recreational I believe have started medical prior to that yeah which really bothers me because we get handed the story that the reason we're doing medical marijuana is because of the needs of the patient which personally I know people they're using it and and I support and for use that but I think it's really a sign of the wicked motive that you would hold these people up if your in game is to get this over here and you'll have to comment on that but that's my opinion on that matter well I move let me move on determined need you you reference that who is the comptroller of the definition of the term heard determined need is that the commission is it ABC who who makes that judgment call. So the medical marijuana commission makes the ultimate call as to whether or not there is a need for the opening up of the additional cultivations it is after they voted and selected that they would. Select five in the initial applications mercy rules are then promulgated in past setting forth the standard for opening up the additional three and those rules state that the commission may initiate the selection process FOR cultivation facilities upon they determine that there is not enough cultivation facilities to supply the dispensaries within the state or upon revocation of any existing license by the alcoholic beverage control division. Okay and how much of that hinges on the original estimates put out by DFA and now that reality is playing out in front of this how much of that that you just read was based on the definition or or the estimation that was given by DFA when all this first started and because now we see the numbers realistic against the estimate is that an outdated standard to be using so I was not a the director at the time and wasn't present for the voting of that the best that I can speak to is that the minutes and the transcripts from those meetings with the the determination of the five was based upon the health regions by the motion the doctor Tilman made and but that's the most that I can provide as far as education regarding the selection of why there was five as opposed to eight okay and then last question if there were no disqualifying reasons and if the if A estimates were wrong or have their estimates have been exceeded now. What legitimate reasons are there to not allow all eight of the dispensaries to be awarded to Lysons as you heard test me while ago there was nothing as far as disqualifying them we're down to the argument of supply and demand and pain which side the test more you want to listen to but but what legitimate reasons are there to not award all eight and pick winners and losers so it's a determination for the commission to make the what I can say is that of as well an attorney if they do not make that finding based upon the rules that have been adopted then that it will open us up to open up the commission to litigation regarding whether or not they had the evidence to support a finding of opening up their additional three okay thank you thank you Mr Senator hammer I want to clear something up you vest that question a couple of times. All of these cultivators who are on the reserve list would not be on there if they weren't qualified the one to work qualified we're not score they were thrown out before we ever got to the scoring position so all those people on the reserve list were qualified were scored they just didn't get a high enough score based on lots of things as the others now some of the cultivators who actually got on the list cashed out I got off the list years ago to got half the money back and left dispensaries the same way some of those people who wish Gordon got on the reserve list decided I can't wait two years to get a license I'm a cash out and they're all. So we we have some left on both reserve list but all of those who are scored for qualified and put on the research yes so there what any disqualifying factor as to those people that to appear today they were qualified they just didn't get on the score to get a license the share care one question based on that yes Sir will quickly thanks so. We're but we're we're really down to the argument of the justification based on supply and demand is what this is all boleh now to say that is that your position rules that in order for the commission we're talking cultivators not dispensaries that we're talking K. cultivators rules are different the commission may initiate the selection process off of that reserve list FOR cultivation facilities upon determining that there are not enough cultivation facilities to supply the dispensaries within the state so you're right if somebody loses their license at the second part of it we move one up as long as there's a reserve place but to give the other two or three I have to determine that there's not enough cultivation facilities to supply the dispensaries within the state that's what all the renew all meetings that I've been asked repeatedly cultivators and dispensaries do you have enough product I guess what I'd like to see is a scientific evidence that determines that instead of Google or all these other things have been thrown I think I'd like to see the scientific evidence that the commission makes its decision on well that's been tough to come by tell you that they did I'll throw this out on the dispensary side because there were so many out open a few months ago the commission decided in that sound that only had one cultivator open and FOR cloak not open yet issue another license in that zone so I'm and it dispensary yes not a cultivator and sell by based on just access and not enough I'll dispensaries out there selling the product. State they didn't do that on the cultivator yet because we don't have the same dynamics working out right now so they did look at that on the dispensary side but the rules a little bit different but The evidence that you're talking about it's tough to come by. and and we just tell the commission look at the rule see if you have an a and you can vote to do what you want to do and so by I mean that that's where we are I can't I can't speak for the commission I don't know what's in their minds I know what I'm saying they'd look that but I can't make that decision for them that's not my job my job is to tell them what the rules say about the law is and that they have to comply with the rules otherwise we would need the room. Mr for lead to yeah let me jump in real quick follow up on that line of questioning so the the gentleman who were here earlier with the. Cultivators they're still on the list there just out of that five window right the assumption is that if it ever opens up they would be next in line but the problem they seem to have is that by the July fourteenth date they'll have to reapply with the costs associated with that in order to get back in line is is that seems to be the crux of the issue because the the rules allow the commission to decide what to do with that was our place early on. And I decided because the rules gave them the option to extend that for twenty four months for anybody this qualified got scored and put on the list regardless. All of those people were put on the reserve list there many still tied up at the commission if they want off they get half their application fee back and they're all and they can't come back so if they'd these two people in Japan if they do not meet that fourteen July fourteenth deadline their cost associated with application will be. Refunded half half refunded to them I will have to re apply and get back in line and we do not have a current rule for another application period set up in the rules we would have to have to do that would have to change the rules to allow a new application period to open up cultivators and dispenser who who who's we young making the rules that US mission commission mediation would have to propose a rule for a new application period that would run through the rule process this like any other rule in order to accept new application okay thanks Sir risen Gonzalez equation. Yes the researchers this so I had a different question but now the kid can the commission extend that July deadline no it the rules only allowed to do it once and the extended it once already okay all right okay so when we're talking about the supply issue from the cultivators are you talking about overall supplies or is that specifics strain. The rule DSF enough cultivation facilities to supply the dispensary. Okay. Many would have been nice if the amendment had made some of this stuff a little more specific but did. And that that part of the issue were confined to what the amendment says so it's just overall supply then it is not anything about a specific strain if applies not defined in the rules you would look at what the normal ordinary meeting of that work the that's what the courts tell us to do on a rule okay so so the commission really has no other choice other than to look at the total. Supplies of product and and not worry about the specific strains that are out there some made may be available others may not. Okay thank you. Senator Johnson C. fifty five you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of miss Chandler did I understand you say that the cultivators do not report the I guess wait poundage or whatever their production to your agency is that correct they do not report we have access twenty four seven to the tracking. Program that would allow us to follow their their white they do report their cells to revenue. Well the thing it and again I'm I'm I drawn a lot of my. Thought process in asking this question about the regulation of alcohol and I think there's some analogies obviously that's why it was placed in your agency but of course you're familiar with the three tier system on alcohol side of the federal government will go into a winery in as the grapes come out of the field like test the sugar content to determine how much alcohol is going to come out of those grapes for taxation reasons and other reasons I'm just a little shocked that that's not a statistic that these cultivators are not reporting you know to your agency it might be something. At a course that I want to get in trouble with amendment ninety eight because the people there benefiting. From it financially the ones that wrote the amendment but that not withstanding I still feel like perhaps the General Assembly needs to look at this a little bit more of a just for informational purposes of but but it but you they don't say okay this month we produced. Twenty eight hundred pounds or something is that correct that's correct I think the distinction between the alcoholic beverage side is we do not have a state system in place to track that the product for alcoholic beverages so they require are required to provide reporting data to us depending on the top of permit and in this instance we have in place a tracking program that allows us to monitor their a cross okay if I could follow up Mr chair of. Mister Parker you said that that in your opening statement that your company was adequately supplying the needs of patients in the state of your industry the cultivation side is adequately supplying the needs of of patients in the state did I hear that correctly yes we believe we are supplying well we believe one saw five cultivators are up and operational we'll be able to supply the needs of at least a hundred and ten thousand patients but that's before you added in the specific strains in the production occurring at the dispensary level of which currently there are direct I believe twelve or thirteen dispensaries that are growing are planning to grow is that about right. So so that that will be additional supply that doesn't even take into account where I believe will be at the and and getting us past a hundred and ten and that's before you add Mister carpenter and his his cultivation facility well kinda like vice. German guns Alice I just thought you know marijuana was marijuana but obviously I'm learning there's more strange things to that but Where do you get your seed for any stranger that struck me. Generally it comes from out of state sources where it's legal in other states the the the plants or seeds are brought in and they are all brought in under the supervision of the ABC of. How is long time ago that I took constitutional law but a. Is that minutes in interstate commerce and if so Senate possible violation of federal law. Well all of us that are growing marijuana are in violation of federal law but it this big difference if you keep it all with the state of Arkansas when used to travel something across the state line that would appear to be a slightly pardon the expression horse of a different color. All I can tell you is that we we made sure we fully complied with all of the rules and regulations of both the marijuana commission. And the alcoholic beverage control division. Appreciate your answer it was candid I appreciate that of the an animal ask her counselor at the end of the table of. Would amendment ninety eight allow the General Assembly to. And I was all difference to my friend these left but Representative house who worked very very hard on legislation to implement this and and I'm grateful for what he did but Could the General Assembly in January go back and. Change this whole process that we are this seems to be the point of this hearing today can and I'm not asking you for a solution I'm asking if process wise can we. Change it yeah constitutional amendment are initiated act can be changed by the legislature takes quite certain number of votes that part I understand yes Sir but I mean. Course I don't did I don't think Representative houses legislation required a two thirds vote it was more of an implementation but this particular issue related to numbers of cultivators or numbers of dispensaries or whatever would that be subject to the general assembly's of legislation perhaps in twenty twenty one little and it may not be the same A depending on the the particular item that is address and I'll give you that flexibility dance the things that are in the amendment that said the legislature can make up you know statutes to to implement this those things can be changed by the legislature the things in the amendment that site this is what's going to happen per the amendment takes a super majority to change those yes yes I'm hammer will over some things in in under the amendment to pass laws to change some of this process I'm just be real careful about not impeding are passing a law that changes something in the amendment and you don't have the specific amount of votes to do and that Mr chairman process thank you very much Mister chairman as those you that said in my presentation and state agencies during the last session of that I truly do believe that amendment seven meant what it said that the General Assembly with two thirds vote of each chamber may amend. House Cecil member or initiated act and we have a I think a very poor Supreme Court decision for about seventy years ago that that contradicts that but once again I beseech my colleagues to think about the fact that this might be a time that we needed to go back and re look at that so thank you very much for allowing me to ask question Mister I thank you want one get that thing out you know the the act that was passed in March of twenty nineteen to say that the letter which is in the amendment from the county judge quorum court or mayor it doesn't say if it's the current one or the outgoing one or the new one and that act was passed since it has to be the current one and a circuit judge struck that Dennis that some constitutional because the amendment says what that letter has to be so I I would just yes Sir I want to caution you I appreciate your cautions that I I but I don't believe that that to litigation had anything to do with legislation that was specifically said to amend the constitution as my and my act was about the you probably familiar with it it was about amending amendment one hundred by two thirds of the house two thirds the Senate so I again I don't know the details of that I am familiar what you're speaking of but without getting too far off on that tangent thank you for that advice thank you Mr chair was please not bring casinos in it is me today senator Chesterfield you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. When we talk about the health regions the five regions. If you tell me the approximate number of persons that you anticipate serving in each one of those reasons regions. I do not have that data I don't know who is the data. Senator Chesterfield that the five health regions were promoted by doctor Tilman on the commission back at the very beginning of this and so I I think you would have to ask her what her thought process was in coming up with the five health region I don't mind the five health reasons but we continue to say we continue to talk about adequacy. We cannot determine adequacy without knowing numbers. And if we don't know the numbers in each one of those regions how then can we determined that we had adequacy. Well adequacy is not a word in this rule or in the state senator well let me see determine need then how does one determine need is not the word either it's okay well tell me what the warranty is supply. The supply is what. It says determine and if there are not enough cultivation facilities to supply the dispensaries with in the state I get that part which means that you understand specifically what I'm asking whether eighties said in the law the implication is that we have enough cultivation sites in this state to meet the needs of the state. That's not what that rule says well what the hell are we sign. All I can tell you what it says okay we've been sitting here talking about we have enough this we have enough cultivation sites in this state I haven't sent I'm not talking to you then if you do not the one saying it and then we talk to the other guy who said there is there are enough of them because is beginning to be frustrating for me you either have enough or you don't if you have enough what's it based on. To my knowledge senator it appears based on sitting through these marijuana commission meetings every dispensary testified at the renewal of their Lysons that there was they were not having any supply issues from the cultivators one of now I will tell you I will tell you that there have been stance one or two that have retracted that in when a different direction but all I know is I I sent through and listened to everyone of those commission meetings are I'm trying to get you an objective. Determination. Of how it is decided whether we go forward with another cultivation site on all of the cultivation sites and we continue to say that it is based on a determined need how is that determined or is that something that I need to come to the commission and astra's nobody here seems to know. I believe under the rules and they are the government lawyers that can correct me but I understand is the commission that makes that determination. That seems to be what I would read as is that the. Commission set up by the constitutional amendment calls me has that authority to determine whether it's in the term not and it's nothing that we is legislative body of the attorneys or ABC can dictate for them similar how we can say whether law is good or not by passing it by a form to vote in understanding missed your my question is what is there somebody who represents the commission. I'm the attorney for the call you the good you're the one who's. Give me all of the the legalese on this issue. And you've been sitting in the meetings yes ma'am and use it we know we have five health regions yes but the law doesn't say determine need the law doesn't say adequacy the largest city is they get to make up their minds **** nilly no. On whether or not. It does there is sufficiency because if you don't have an objective criteria is **** nilly. The criteria is is there enough supplies how do you know. Well all we can do because we can't track this the the constitution doesn't allow us to track it by a patient we can't to it's not like a bottle of Tylenol or a bottle of hydrocodone need one when you finish this yes ma'am we we don't have any way to track that under this amendment for these patients okay so let me jump in here I appreciate it back and forth I'm I have a large question Mister yes ma'am you know might get back in the queue will answer we have okay extensively from the you and we'll move on you know my to ma'am. C. ninety two Senator Clark. What are the names of the three producers cultivators that are producing. Bold team in cotton plant. Arkansas natural mmhm medicinal in pine bluff. And sage creek cultivation in Berryville. If you all would be so good as to ask me of your citizen legislators. And when I'm not a legislator in a citizen our retail building materials and flooring. Your so good is to ask me if I could supply. All the flooring building materials for garland county if you shudder bales down guess what my answer would be. Yes I absolutely can't. If you put me on a polygraph and SB same question. Do you think I will pass what do you think I will or not I will. because I absolutely believe that I can now if you ask me ask me if I can supply. All the county surrounding oral account the answer will be yes put me on polygraph. Still can't. Of keep expanding so I'm may not be the best guy to ask. Marijuana commission of. And of. The but. The gentleman on the left. On my right. I'm sorry your names and see to be on here and I didn't catch it. The yes you. No I thank you Mr to pepper right now my name's Islander attorney general's okay the other German my name's don Parker delta medical cannabis okay you are on here okay Mister Parker. That under use understand you to say there was no shortage contrary to what some had said previously. That is correct. Okay well how are you were testifying I went and called. Dragon was sent to green springs the hot springs. He says he's supposed to receive an order tomorrow. That is supposed to received ten days ago. They didn't receive a ten days ago because they didn't have it ten days ago. Nine my business. Currently experts in a lot of shortages because a covert nineteen and factories producing less because they got people six foot apart not committee in. We call that a shortage you don't call it a shortage. He calls it a shortage by the way and did when he testified to the marijuana commission but you don't call it George yes he he did when he testified the second time I believe when he was at his renewal hearing he testified he was having no supply issues I what since our company is not currently supplying any marijuana we've not sold our first house yet I can't speak to whether Mister the center may I don't have any personal knowledge of he is quote supply issues I can tell you that I have heard from the other cultivators that he is a very difficult individual to deal with so that might attribute to some of his inability to get all the supply he needs but I understand that your other dispensary in hot springs it has been well supplied. Well he's not here to defend himself. But being I will tell you. That I have a reputation. Very hard to deal with. And I have found that volume. Helps maintain a good supply for me and since he's the number one guy on the state I think what you just said was hogwash and I think you know it was hogwash so let's go back to the question is do you not consider tend he was post got or ten days ago and they didn't ship because they didn't have it. You not consider that a shortage I can tell you as I sit here today that based on the information I have been supplied by the three cultivators that are producing. That they are selling and delivering to all of the dispensary is in the state. And Mister the center a is not getting everything he is ordering whether he's selling all of it or not that's another perhaps another issue very very that would be up to him to testify before this committee very skillful answer but very skillful answer you know I had a went to supply our long time ago that sent me all the screens that went with all the windows that order now they came a year later but they did deliver a mall so so saying that they're delivering it all doesn't doesn't do away with there being a shortage the but so the very fact that you don't even want to answer is the fact that they didn't have it and had to ship IT ten days later not a shortage it says a whole lot but here's an email of between Mister Vincent packed I'm sorry text in one of the suppliers. Hey what is ETA on delivery the supplier good morning they have you on the board for your standard Prodi yeah but you push me from Prodi to money last week. Now I'm going a whole week without sound like a shortage so far will have a bigger problem this is a plot well I have a bigger problem right now I only have twenty pounds seller shortage and no popcorn and no reduced price flower either. Today we are trying to pull together another five pounds for you by Friday I am out of flour and these girls are not growing fast enough. No of that's he's not here testifying either. But that sounds like a shortage. The Senator Clark I Japan you can Mr chair. Am I misreading that the rest the text message thread seem to go to another supplier and it wasn't so much in need with the price calls of the supply with the first for shortage and then he comes back in and he's got invoices showing where prices were up as much as twenty seven percent from his previous order so there's both which also indicates a shortage of supply that's price and the supply and demand and any also in his testimony to marijuana commission. Pointed out that one of these three and I wanted to make sure bowl cultivation the first when you mention doesn't sell him because they also have dispensaries is that correct. And that they have quit selling him because they want to be sure that they're dispensaries have plenty of product. So they put selling him. Can we please reduce the chatter in the well here's here's what is Senator Clark yes. The strike is meeting back on patrol little bit understand your passion understand a lot of motion said today with the beans in a little bit out of control both by the audience participation and. By the amount of questioning ended the tone of your question so I would ask you if you can because we have many people less in the queue to finish it up and we can move on I will be more have to call you at the end of the end of the queue. Thank you Mr chair of the I would. Procedures patients I have nothing to do with the audience and my tone one it is not unusual for me of. At the end of his testimony. The. Mr resent tech said that bowl cultivation would monopolize the market. By product pricing quality availability and that insight came to fruition a month later when bowl stop more making product available FOR sale to green springs in order for their suite four forty three and other bold own dispensaries to gain market foothold. I have asked for product numerous times in the not been able to purchase any medical marijuana products from bowl cultivation since October of two thousand nineteen. That was his testimony that of. Mr Morton were you there for the testimony. Okay thank you thank you Mr chair for your patience. Thank you center court next number seventy one which I believe is Representative flowers. Represent four hours yes thank you. Thank you very much share. before just now really really was listening intently and and ultimately out have a question for director Chandler but. I've heard a lot about supply and demand or supply. Which is defined as a stock of resource from which a person or place can be provided with the necessary amount of that resource which is not. Define. So how do we define it. I heard earlier miss Chandler say that. We don't require. The providers and I'm paraphrasing. To report that data. And then I heard. Of Mr ninety. Senate I. What I'm sorry what's your name three three three. The server budget say. That the law doesn't Require is that what you said the law does not require or allow. The law does not allow for that data to be collected but it also doesn't prohibited from being collected. So if we are not collecting any objective data to determine. What that supplies should be and what it is. Then what do we fall on and one of the things that I heard when I participated in listened. And on the last commission meeting was that when the decision was made to provide or to award five cultivator licenses. It was based upon D. F. and A data. And a D. F. and A definition. Of what. That supply would be or should be. For those five license I mean for those five a cultivator licensees. And that was based upon. There being thirty thousand. Medical marijuana license holders. We have more than doubled that number. And by the data that I've seen. A number of licenses in the state of Arkansas is growing at this point at a rate of about five thousand per month. So if we just take what the F. in a defined. And look at the rate of growth. As well as price price does figure into that in terms of accessibility of patients. And meeting the need because of patients can't purchase from the dispensaries. Then how do we not can figure that into what the actual supply is and should be. So forget trying to figure out what it is or go buy anything subjective let's go by what D. F. and A said and then by what the commission said D. FNA. Staffs the commission. A provide the staffing and the data for them. The commission agreed and said this is what we are basing. Creating five licensees on I have heard no one not in the last meeting and not today. the commission AG's office say or do you have the names that those numbers were wrong we got that wrong it should in sixty thousand should be ninety thousand no one has said that. So if we are to believe the D. F. and A knows what they're doing and I do believe they do. And they said that we should define this based upon. Thirty. Thousand license out of of my license but patient of card holders. And now today we have sixty two thousand. With the growth rate of at least five thousand per month. Seems to me that we should not carry or even think about. Going through another process of two to three years and spending at least two hundred and fifty if not more thousand dollars two hundred fifty thousand dollars or more to the state. Total war just the remaining two licenses when we by the standards of the commission and D. F. and they have to pass the numbers that they said would be our total number. They didn't cities we are initial numbers they said this will be our total number that's what we estimate. Is thirty thousand people patience. Now if you could. I'm the I'm to my question this challenge. That said. What those numbers are wrong. Simple question I can't speak to those numbers I wasn't there when those numbers were being produced I have found no commission minutes that discuss those numbers so I can't I can't speak that's a fair point so let me ask you this since you have been the director. Have you heard from any. Commissioner. Or any person staffing or dealing with the commission. From the FNA indicating. That the numbers that they provided the commission with the numbers that the commission themselves. Base the establishment of five cultivator licensees on. Whether not that that those initial numbers have changed or have been in any way that invalidated since you have been director has that happened of not heard that any numbers present by the FAA were incorrect I have had commissioners stalemate that they did not based the number of cultivators that five on the numbers presented by DFA rather they were were based upon the health districts. We've heard that health districts is not. In the law. And we also know that any objective criteria is not in the law. And we also know based upon the but said today that the law doesn't provide for requiring the the licensee's to provide the data that would allow any sort of objectivity. In determining what supply means and at what point does the commission say we don't have enough for we do have enough. So I'm what I ask you is not what someone thinks later on because what we do know. Is that D. F. and A did provide those numbers and at the commission meeting the commission agreed. That five thousand. Patients per provider based upon that thirty thousand number was what they were basing that on that was said. So what I'm hearing you say is no one has indicated that those numbers were incorrect or no longer valid and I think that's important for my colleagues to hear and understand because unless somebody talks about what supply means and that the basis for defining the of five out of eight. Was back was the what was that number and which has since doubled. Then I don't understand what the conversation should be except to make a motion and I'm not on the committee but it seems to me that if there is a concern about the patients accessibility if there is a concern about cost and the concern about the law as it relates to supply. And that's the information that was given and acted upon that to me seems is that we should focus on that thank you very much. A Mister the paper do you have any kind of response to that please. Thank you Mr chair DFA is original information provided regarding adoption of the medical marijuana amendment at the October twenty six twenty sixteen J. P. R. meeting had a revenue estimate that revenue estimate was based on six states that had a fully medicinal marijuana practice that had two years of receipts that they were able to share with us we compare that to the American community survey the census updated population to create a per capita average from those states and apply that to Arkansas to have an estimate of the sales to forecast potential tax revenue. The number of that is close to thirty thousand patients with five ounces of marijuana AT that's the every month but what we based our numbers on we're always those revenue estimates because we were not able to talk to health conditions talk to qualifying patients and that one person at approximately one percent of the population which other states had seen in the initial adoption. Thank you Sir move on to number sixty seven I believe that's represent Penzo. Okay all right. there was a statement made about the having to hear it here to the rules on the but the July deadline in these two other companies I was curious who who wrote that specific rule that had a July deadline. It was a rule that the commission promulgated after it received After it'd scored the applications and after that issued the five licenses about five days later the commission approve that rules to be promulgated it was actually promulgated as an emergency rule and. It's an emergency rule okay so it occurred after the first five were awarded correct okay So then when was the. The you could get one extension that was mentioned that it could be extended one time what was that rule adopted the same time or was that later added it was not done in terms of an extension they had an option to extend it for twenty four months and they. They chose that option Senator was not extension after that okay so the commission could amend that rule at this point could they not. I mean if they would have to do it as an emergency rule prior to July the tent so it would kind of guess being come upon ale see is. Or if they so chose to do it I mean if then if you wanted to. Okay thank you. I would like to follow up on that question So at what point do they get to to to write new rules or OR to amend the rules of they have to bring they have to bring that before a LC. To amend the rules yes okay the so. They could possibly ride a rule that would. So the the ones that are out there now they get they get half their money back right after the June July the deadline they get have their money back yes so the new rules they could bring back new rules that say that puts those growers potential growers right back in line where they were they were and cut the application fee in half that way they would not be out any money. And be right back in line where they started. I suppose they can try to promulgate any rule and if you guys will prove it sorry if the General Assembly or else he will approve it they could they could try to do that okay thank you. Get my mark on okay Senator sample you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair in the longer this testimony goes on. The more difficult it is to to keep up with. The shields in this game. Of. Just. This one just came up our. July the eleventh if nothing changes you're going give these people have their money back. Is that correct well I would not be on the reserve list anymore it would go away and I assume are you going given half the money my question is are you go give half your money back or if they can get their all their deposit back one of the other. It would be a half one. If that's based upon the MMC rules that were adopted that the F. if any application is deemed and not an after July tenth when they're no longer left on the reserve they would be deemed and not applications and then per the rules they Missy rules or adopted they would get one half of their application fee back yeah but do not be and then that jungle just not acted on. By can exist after July ten that's what the rule says okay if they can exist or you go and give up half the money back for all the money back because of what the license haven't been doing that you're just ignore them from then on the rule says their license has been denied July eleventh. As of July eleventh there than their that their application in their their application for license has been denied this dean denied by the rule. Board not below but by Ruth yes correct okay Mr. Let's go over the The track and. Element the two four by how do you track it let's go. We have multiple manners on which to track it I have reports that Iran and had the Arkansas stems run for may assist Mansingh up those reports that can last the amount of flour held and the cultivators in their inventory on hand I also have the ability to run reports regarding the plant count that is on hand in the cultivators or dispensaries if they have plans as well as the sales figures. The amount of sales. An inventory held by the dispensaries on hand. Is there anything about quality control we the health department monitors the laboratory testing of the quality control of the private health do you collect those those samples to the best ones those are all handled by the health department not ABC. That's the reason we've got these problems is too many agencies involved. Okay. I mean I can tell you I was in business for forty two years and the more suppliers I got. The better I was able to handle my customers needs gosh one price should come down the other is a private would would more be adapted to whatever that customer needed and so I have a real problem with with not issuing all license in in that brings fine that's a question for Mister Parker house it worked at your or a dispensary and I cultivators. According to the amendment ninety eight an individual can have an ownership interest in one cultivation facility and one dispensary. In the state is that not create a problem did I forget who a I think is Senator Clark rolled up about. Or it might been represented flowers about you taken and and hold your product back so that your dispensary would have it and only it. Since we haven't sold our first ounces that will help the mental I'm not some talk about happened I mean how are you gonna have lebron that issue our intention is to is to sell as much product is we can do all the dispensers. We won't hold you to that. Okay Thank you Mr chair for right now Make it back in the queue. Representative five. Thank you Mr chair of Mister Chandler how is the price determine home on the medical marijuana is it to the are they allowed to talk to each other the growers cultivators and is there a process in which the come up with the price of what they sell so we have no authority to oversee pricing and so there is no prohibition in the rules of the cultivators communicating with each other. But as far as pricing ABC does not have any authority to oversee that nor does the M. M. say. Hello Mister would you allow me to have one other question yes Sir you're recognized okay Mister Parker have you talked to the other cultivators about pricing. Now we've not talked at all about pricing we have an in delta medically not even started selling so that we haven't even gotten to that point yet you know if they have spoken to each other about pricing I do not okay thank you thank you Mr. Thank you quick question the role that after to twenty four months in the extension that the application had to be ended with the half referral did that come through I Legislative Council for approval yes do you have any guest Imation are ex specific data when we approve that I have no idea I was living in Israel at the time that's a good excuse Sir yes Sir you're recognized Mansar and I do hereby prisoner but number any closer sorry about that no worries I believe I looked at the old agenda from the executive subcommittee today and I believe it was on July twentieth or within that actually I think it was July the nineteenth of two thousand nineteen and Simmons two thousand and eighteen eighteen thank you ma'am. Next we have C. twenty two which should be Senator hammer thank you this one's going to be first of all Mister Reeves one is the commission's latitude of determining the ability to supply to the demand and and let me preface it before you answer that because something miss Parker said a minute ago or or somebody said was that the cultivators or the growers seed one actually contribute to that conversation so what is what are the guidelines as far as what the commission does to determine and verify that information there aren't any guidelines we they just look at the word and the rule like we did on the dispensary side and say on the dispensary side it's our patients been served the cultivation side it supplied to the dispensaries in my mind because that word is not defined mean thank you any data the stuff represented flowers talked about with the patients I mean I you know we just tell them you gonna have to come up with the reason if you want to issue the licenses based on that rule and it's up to them to decide what data they're going to look at there's no there's no prescribe anything for them to look at on that if that's the word itself would it be a conflict of interest that the growers actually even have a voice to influence the commission in that process. I don't know it I don't know about a conflict of interest that You know there just aren't any guidelines to tell us what what data or anything else they used to do that on okay so all we advise them was you need to look at all the information you've gotten decide do you think there's a supply issue here hi miss Chandler. So you heard right just say yes Mister Reeves why is the commission not. I and what bothers me is that the the Growers actually. Have a seat at the table what sounds like with no verification other than they're taking their word which almost implies the fox guarding the hen house environment why is the. Why is the commission not doing more to verify that information before they make a determination that's going to adversely affect the others that could be allowed to start growing. But are not on the basis of the supply and demand argument so I can't speak to the commission's thoughts or what runs their minds I do provide them with any data that that they request to me it that's within my ability to provide which is why they've had some of the data that I've listed off here today if they've asked me to try and get that that I've done my best to provide that information to them they have also been provided with any documentation whether it's from those remaining in Q. two patients around the state if they have sent letters to my office asking for that to be distributed the commission not provide them with that information as well so they are reviewing letters from those in Q. data that those individuals are provided as well as data cultivators of provided in addition to the data that I'm able to pull out from the a Arkansas stem system okay specifically less questioning Mr what what do they do. To determine or to the little vilify the information or input that the up producers are giving them if that's part of the what goes into weighing the decision what's the verification process of the information is being provided by the existing growers I have no idea what the commission's doing to solidify the data that they're being provided. To me that's a problem but okay thank you Mr. Yes Sir next we have Representative rye Representative rye you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I hope I've got this right. sixty two thousand people in Iraq that Haitian art how many patient cards patient cards okay now once and there's two and a half ounces. Every two weeks they're taking legally correct okay now once they get the card they become their own dot. It right okay now there's over a hundred strands out here. The doctor says. I won't this strand because. This has a different content of THC. Yes there's a doctor not have the right to. To a to the so when the supply of all those strains that he can pick from two to make a determination what actually is best for the. patient. The doctor doesn't give the patient a I'm not sure that's one saying that the one there's actually use in the the marijuana is becomes a doctor and there's a hundred some odd strands after and he wants this kind of strand but he's unable to get this strand when he wants it every day of the of the month. It just looks like to me with supply and demand if the doctor award certain kinds of medicine that you were a that you have to give the patient the kind of medicine that the doctor orders well I would assume if it's being grown by I'd of the cultivators some strains are not being grown by cultivators. Follow up please well yes Sir but the cultivator is driven by supply and demand for it okay so whatever the doctor needs if if the supplier over here can't take care of it he's got to go over here to get away nation if he lives in Jonesborough and the supplies down and and hot springs how is he going to know what's out there that he can order for his patient. If I have I have no idea how the patient finds out what dispensary to go to this the amend what we don't we don't have any way to publish that that's up to the dispensaries in the cultivators to advertise yes and advertised they can advertise the ministry what I'm going to Sir is you know the law within amendment uses two and a half ounces yeah I have a couple weeks something like that and you have to have a card yes and once you receive the card you're the one that determines what kind of medicine you will. But every strain is not in every dispensary all over the state one I but if the doctor orders mention. Because they they only purchase what they can get from the cultivators or what they request. Mon one yes Sir will want to call Farrer not able to take care of every strand because the doctor orders a mention the need to be able to give the patient wanted will I'm not a call her later I'm not a policy person I'm just trying to keep the commitment to follow the law yes Sir thanks I can answer that question our ability of next we have this represented Gonzalez's question. Thank you Mr of Mr resist question will be for you because you said something kind of interest mill little bit ago you set forth for the commission to issue the other two growers license that they would have to show need to give to give reason for that So the were previously five growers approved right three actually growing right you had the dispensaries coming in at license renewal and testify that there was no. Supply issue that they had plenty of supply correct correct and then just this month you had the commission. Give another growers license number six yes what was the reason for that they gave for issuing that growers license. commissioner story made the motion I don't know that I wrote down word for word what he said I don't remember exactly what he said it it had to have something to do with supply or needs I really don't remember I'm sorry. I just if I wrote it down I mean I think that's an that would be important to know if if there if they have to show a need to issue the other permits the other other growers Lysons. And you have to growers that are about to come online in the next month two months and you already had the dispensary show up saying that there was no supply issue. I'm just have a hard time figuring out what the justification was for issuing. Even that one. He used the word needs. True need for another cultivation facility You talked about output and consumption. But mostly he talked about. Not have in the other two that was most of his motion but he did use the word need true made up not cultivation per patient with to swat it's been talked about today and output and consumption based on that he made the motion to grant the one license but. That was after the chair woman had made the motion to give all of the this cultivation licenses out and all of the dispensary license out and it failed three to two. The Mr story made the one to do the one. Needless the word I wrote down on my notes. I committee we have three people in the queue all say that the last three questions lesser some just present if you do please come occur discussed with me I'll defer to serve you first of the centre Johnson. Thank you Mr chair of. Mister Chandler. Amendment ninety eight says that A dispensary may grow or possess fifty mature marijuana plants at any one time plus seedlings. Is that county in the I mean we're trying to figure out supply and demand here does that count toward the supply that you. And I know we've talked about data I guess that's closest thing we have the data but does that count of because you're you're looking at the cultivators and eight by the dispensary in effect. Okay pardon the expression is probably bad with these home grown but dispensary grown I guess we should say the all keep up with that do they report that to you and I don't know about a mature plant is at twenty feet high two feet higher what's the mature plant how much a product does it produce in white. So we do not they do not have to report that data to us just like the cultivators do not we have the ability and we check that monitor it and access in the system I did not include it and I don't live I included in any of the data that was in the commission regarding out put the dispensary out put it was the a cultivation output is though that at that I provided to the commission for their determinations so you have no data whatsoever about any of these plants that are actually. Grown or in the possession of the dispensaries I have the data in the system I did not present the data that was not the data requested by the commissioners as they would. We're contemplating to opening up the additional this cultivation licenses they we sent me requests for specific data and that's the data that I tried to provide to them in the dispensary plant this production was not part of the data requested by them would you agree that. In a global sense that that at least has some effect on supply which seems to be the legal term that mysteries referring to the that's in the statute in the constitution with that with that affect supply the fact that however many we have opened could have fifty plants and even though you may have the debtor the commission didn't ask for it that information does exist and would affect supply would you agree that that it could be contemplated and pulled out of the system and provide to them and yes it would have an impact on the amount of product that is accessible to a dispensary it would increase the amount of product that is accessible to them okay thank you very much thank you Mr chair. Thank you a. See forty represent worn. Should be certain try again. Can you hear me now okay. I'm just curious the I'm hearing from people I've talked to that there are a lot of different strains of being grown. The. How many different strains of we got in Arkansas. And or cultivators basically growing the same strains. The. And are there more strains outside of Arkansas and what what are we looking at here. we growing the same things are we. Are we looking at different products that these cultivators are looking at supplying to the the dispensaries. I know that. In our case we've tried to select strains and bring in strains that other cultivators are least that we know are not currently marketing we don't know and I don't know as I sit here today to know how many different strains when I gave you the approximately two hundred strain number earlier I do not know whether there's any overlap I simply took the information provided by each of the cultivators on the number of strange that they are currently growing now I think probably most of the cultivators if not all the cultivators have balls I also have access to all the genetics A. seasons are that they can grow different strains I have no information and no knowledge of what types of strains the dispensaries are currently growing the twelve or thirteen they're growing. Okay I guess my follow up Mr chair. The. I guess for the benefit of the people with cards in Arkansas is there any way to know if we are growing. As many different strains as possible for the population. And all the and with that thank you. The cultivators currently and under roof have approximately about a hundred forty different kinds of strains that they are growing that is combined through the three different cultivators I don't have the breakdown of how many are in each cultivation unit but there is approximately according to my plant count approximate hundred forty different strains that are being currently grown. Thank you I believe this last question it be Senator sample you're recognized Sir. Thank you Mr chair. And members. Where it. Well being beat up by our constituents. because. We let this thing go a long way too long and. We really don't have a lot to say about it because the people of our awarding the license or not elected their pointed. And so that creates a problem in sales. But Mr chairman. Senator Chesterfield Sydney a motion that I would like to present to the committee. Yes Sir you're recognized okay. here's your motion it is the will of the this committee to recommend that to the commission to issue two additional term called by showing license before the July cover off date. Thanks for motion. That the proper motion of the I have a second of the both committee members of the state agency we have in discussion on the motion centre Ballinger recognized. Yes before we get started for the motion I will say that right now we do not have a quorum in the house we have checked with staff it only takes one body to issue the statement but if there's a roll call with division that motion will be accountable to that so we have a motion a second hold favor say aye all opposed. Chairman here's the ayes have it. Does that happen before okay. That's incorrect You three three three hands. The staff that is to hand earlier we have center Ballenger. And we have. Representative Dotson that's correct. So we're going to a roll call we will start off with the Senate since that's where the roll call was requested staff we please go through. Senator sample I. Senator Hickey. Senator Hester. Senator Hester. Senator bond. Senator bond. Senator Breanne Davis. Senator Davis. Senator Ballenger. Senator called Caldwell. With three eyes one nine a and FOR non voting the motion has failed. With that we are at the any other business and seeing no other business forced me thank you all so much for your testimony patient I this meeting is adjourned. Which I want to tell you how much I appreciate your service and state government thank.