State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs- House and Senate

With individuals from senator garner J. other. Yeah one of them we have online upstream and at this time senator garner those are cities from your area absolutely chairman thank so much well this is heather she's from L. right and she's a small business owner who has been affected by the regulations and she put a Facebook post a few days ago that I got tag in about a hundred times and so on she said I really want my story heard as a war have a legislative meeting come up here and tell yourself so we're happy she's actually working that's why she's on June trying to build a business back up at heather so happy you're here in a four years. Thank. I'm gonna. I have been here so as to seventeen years I'm a mother of three little girls and I've been a salon owner for fourteen years in Union County on March twenty third governor Hutchinson sent down the ordered that all stylist emerge for cease and desist working on. Working in our salons due to Kevin nineteen. A I hate to interrupt you but we're having a difficult time and here you see like the body or maybe a little closer I apologize but we definitely want to hear what you have to say. This happened. Okay can you hear me now make it that is subject what better yes ma'am. Go ahead try it again okay yes Sir testing how is that. That better yeah it's a little bit better will just have to make it work thank you. I'm gonna speak I'm gonna try to speak clearly and loudly. My husband says I do that well. I have been here Salis for seventeen years I do live in Union County senator garner stat I have three little girls and I've been a salon owner for fourteen years. On March twenty third as you know governor Hutchinson sit down order all stylist in barbers cease and desist working because of the cut the Copa nineteen pandemic there for causing severe hardship on our family I was forced to close my doors therefore are we of income and to support my family was stripped. I have six additional dollars that also working muscle and. Then I provided storefront for that were also left without any income. On March twenty fifth I went to our local unemployment office and was informed by the Representative that they had no information regarding anything as far as the band was concerned. We again applied for unemployment and were denied. I've been contacted Representative Matthew shepherd on April first he was. Very helpful and put me in touch with the Arkansas department of workforce in little rock she advised me at that time if funds were being allocated and that help was on the way but she did not know we. After that I waited till April the eight and then reached out to Representative Sonia Barker to see if there were any update and if we knew any new information. He said they were working on a system. To police state hold on and that help was on the way she encouraged me to check the website. And that the new system was being worked on. During several weeks. Were these two weeks we applied for unemployment again because there were rumors that we could apply so we did and we were denied multiple times. On April twenty second I contacted senator garner asking him if he would please give his vote to open up the lines we have not received any income and my family was grounding financially. I even apply for food stamps. On March twenty six the date that I applied and I ask your gardener if you knew anything because it was April twenty second by then it had still not heard anything. I was finally awarded food stamps on April twenty six. With still no income for my family I received an email on April twenty fourth at the P. U. a system we can now sign up for email updates. On may first it was announced that someone could open back up I know makes six with restrictions we would be able to come back to work at thirty five percent. May second receded and date. Saying that we would test the system. That was a mass just when. May sixth. Someone could open back up. In on may ninth. Twenty nine thousand people we were told had applied for the P. U. a system and to just be patient. May fifteenth the system was taken offered breach and on may nineteenth. House emails I still do not have any email saying that we can apply for an employment yet. So from March twenty fifth to may sixth my family had no income restaurants Walmart can do though the teachers were all allowed to continue to operate even if minimal. I am now working. Try to make for lost time lost wages. And still have not gotten any support that the government promised us from the pandemic unemployment's. And that's all. Miss you. Questions from committee members senator garner you're recognized. Thank return appreciate it so much either can you explain what the regulations and guidelines from department health or now that you've re open your salon you can give us a break down of what you have to go through in order to see a client. So to be able to come in and we can only work at thirty five percent which means that my girls we all can't work at the same time and that we can't double book or have people. To back their cleaning regulations that by the department of health. He also I'm not allowed to take walk ins you cannot walk in off the street we have to keep our door locked. So if somebody no show sister doesn't come in for their appointments those are just that's more lost time and lost money. my salon was big enough that we are able to social distance correctly but because of the thirty five percent capacity it doesn't matter I mean that doesn't matter. You do have to do an extensive amount of cleaning in between each client every she approval every chair everything that anybody touches as we went down decontaminated and there may to sign up right to give a detailed information we must take their temperatures we must make them wear a mask. We must sign the man emails phone numbers. More so than I have to go to a doctor's appointment right now. Thank you Mr any further questions from committee members purposes give more. Representative Ladyman you're recognized for a question. Thank you thank you Mr chair. Up. I thought you'd gone there and it is you got off the TV thereof and We've had this discussion in public health committee quite a bit because the subjects covered every month in our public health committee. and one of the things that you brought up it's been discussed before would you have this requirement to be six feet apart and thirty five percent capacity. Correct so to me those seem like the same things and you say in your business you could actually do the the public distancing and run at a hundred percent. You you have. Yes Sir that is correct MAS a lawn chairs are actually seven feet apart. they were set up act that anyway just to give you a little bit around but not much like you're on top of people so our salon tears are set at actually seventy apart political thanks and you have adequate space for customers coming in so that they can have distancing in you can work that out. Yes we're not allowed to have anyone in the waiting area and the customer has to be with their stylists force. Well this is not a question for you maybe a comment but I think that's something that we should look at and we should talk the ministration about. These two requirements are duplicative if a person can can apply can comply with the six with distancing and the mask why do you put a limitation on their business I think that's something we should discuss in and maybe I think that's something we could correct that would help our businesses open quicker you more capacity because I know it's hard to make a living on thirty five percent your business I have a small business and you can't make a profit that so I understand that. So I just think that's something that you'll make a note of that we we need to talk to the ministrations if that could be relaxed a little bit thank you Mr chair. SO noted Representative of we'll pass up on that issue that's good point. I see no further questions from many of the committee members we others want to thank you we really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to share your story with us it's very helpful to us have a good rest today thank you so much thank you very much again gentleman. Our next guest for the day is. Total eighty seven. You should. Seven is here to request of senator gonna let senator if you would enter does should have any comments thank you so much richer well. I have no ten very well we know we've never met in person because I think more anybody my district she somebody who's been deeply affected by this and she's contact me every few days about the issues going on which is kind of my life line to what this issue actually is packed with people my districts so was very Happy that she could come up take time to actually explain what she's been through I know she's nervous but you don't need to be we're all very very exciting your testimony thank you may. Thank you Mr chairman. My name is Taylor I have it and I mean a raise in historic downtown el to right now I have a two thousand square foot store consist of antiques a bridal registry. That's best for you. Clause. Yeah. As a matter okay. J.. Should be now. Clause. I have online business since two thousand six and been in all the right of since two thousand seventeen I have no employees and I run my store alone. I help my daughter race my granddaughter who is seven years old Mary's is my sole source of income I've never received any types of loans for my business since I opened in two thousand six I've worked over sixteen years building my when I have. Due to cover nineteen I'm on the verge of losing my store my monthly bills or around forty five hundred dollars for the last eleven weeks I haven't had any income to pay anything. I closed earlier than most due to the fact my granddaughter became sick on the eighth of March while in pine bluff with her mother on the night she had a fever of a hundred and four and tested positive for flu type thing she was very sick for two days and then on March eleventh the first positive case of Kobe nineteen in Arkansas was announced and public. So not knowing if she was exposed or she had Covin everybody was panicking and no one knew what to do I close my store on the afternoon of the eleventh then officially on the sixteenth. I've applied for everything I could with SBA and been denied for every single one of them I applied for regular unemployment like I was told that deny due to the fact I'm self employed. I applied for grants but never received in. On March the twenty first I applied for the first as BA coronavirus loan. On the twenty third they denied me due to my credit history on the twenty seventh they emailed me saying that they change their credit standards and we're reevaluating my application. On. April first they denied me and told me I'd receive an explanation in the mail. On March the twenty eight I applied for regular unemployment. And on April ninth I was to I was declined due to being self employed. On March the thirty first I applied for economic injury disaster loans on may fifteenth they denied me due to my and satisfactory credit history. On April the third I applied for the Arkansas economic. Quick. Grant program for twenty five thousand dollars and they denied me due to the fact I have no employees. On April the sixth I applied for the PPP through my bank and on April twenty first they denied me due to no employees and I was told I was not considered a small business I was a micro business. On April twenty ninth I applied for a grant through L. I. as C. relief and recovery grant and I was not chose to receive it on my the third I applied for the P. U. I. employment online I was told I receive a confirmation email and never received it I spoke with the lady on Saturday who told me all my info took all my info and said that I would receive an email I still haven't received an email. I was told that I can log in with my first initial last name and when I did it with all my information with somebody else's documents uploaded. Nobody called to tell me any type and I receive an email and nobody could ever answering my questions. The Senate I was approved I receive money the week of the tent then I said the week of the eighteenth and still nothing. On may the twelve I applied for the Arkansas ready for business grant program. So as of today I have applied for just about everything I could into nine on everything. I now it's now three months behind on bills and I haven't received any help. If it was not for my boyfriend helping I would actually be hungry I would not be able to feed me or my granddaughter. There's people who have small businesses that live week to week month to month that have children that they don't have friends or family to help what do they do how do they feed their families. Single parents were already struggling to make ends meet what do they do. If you're self employed you can't qualify qualified for state services or resources like food stamps and except for. I have been denied help for the reasons I've been told are I'm self employed with no employees. So I'm not considered a small business on a micro business. I have utilities and rant just like other businesses that have employees what makes me any different. I pay my taxes just like everyone else I don't pay marker taxes. I work card I go by the rules and regulations I don't do anything illegal or immoral and I have the utmost respect for our government. That people like me are falling through the cracks many small businesses won't recover from this we need the pandemic unemployment without it we won't survive as a business. There's almost no way to come back from almost three months of loss we need your help. There's many businesses profiting and taking advantage of the PPP programs what people like me are suffering strip clubs across America sued the federal government and one and received PPP. And I'm not eligible for a dollar at this point. Small businesses need help now. Thank you for your time. And help. Thank you Mr we appreciate your comments and the. Say no questions from. Get your **** push Representative Ladyman. His. Thank you thank you for your testimony that's very good information for us to know my question is you said you plan for the PPP. And you because you're self employed and have no employees you can qualify. Did you apply for the S. B. A. loans from the cares this count on the same page but it's a different and it's for people who don't have employees if you're self employed and you're the only. Person going funds from that wasn't you Sastre. The it's it's with the PPP is a similar program and it's very easy to apply for that it it it's I I think the limit is like a thousand to ten thousand pending on your business but it's it's fairly easy to qualify for that I have a small business and I applied for that in the process was pretty simple and went through and you do not you're not required to have employees to to get that money it's not very much but it could be helpful. And that's the one that on. I just received an email. And they denied me because of my credit history. Okay. So I know there were some other limits on it but okay. But on the first one it was they had re evaluated credit ratings and stuff. So but I still didn't get it. Well hopefully the unemployment for self employed will be but then going in a few days because I understand or situations or for the. Thank you Mr. Johnson you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair of eserver I don't want you I'm right here I. I don't you think that the fact we are asking you a lot of questions and me we're not hearing everything you said and appreciate how much you've come up here and I think everyone of us can relate to someone in our own districts that's in the same situation you are and just struggling I was actually in another city neighboring my district yesterday and trying to help a a young lady who's taken over her family business and in a similar situation two years and you said falling through the cracks and I just wanted to to thank you for coming it we we hear you and we're here because we're trying to to make some things change that will allow you to go back and make a living again I look forward to coming to elder right to an going to conserve maybe even get enough Minuteman hamburger and coming by your shop so so we wish you the best we keep you in our prayers and but again because we're not bombarding you questions at me we didn't hear everything you said thank you so much for coming thanks. Senator Clark has for question thank you of thank you for being here and the. Appreciate the words that you had to say because you represent so many across the state. that are suffering. You have. Close your business and done the things that you've done. Because we declared an emergency. And I'm sure you did it and you can tell me that you. The ball for public safety protect the public and your neighbors. And that you also continue to do it. Because it was the law and because it was what you were directed to do and what you thought you should know by is that correct yes thank you. Representative Payton you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair ma'am I appreciate you being here and thank thanks a lot for your testimony could you just may be a detailed explanation of your business and what it is and it have you been given any forecast is the when you may expect open back up. And I have an nobody said anything about retail but everybody's open I mean everybody's open but I didn't. Like the spas were announced open an essential but there's never really been anything said about just retail. Thank you have a a storefront. A is on the square on the square it's antiques and embroidery record our paperwork here. So how big is your store and how many customers would you expect to be in there at any given time and it's about two thousand square foot and. Five to ten. Okay it is amended to small and I'm not like and assess it you know. I just so so even the less than ten I mean you could operate basically. Normal. And so we're where are you currently going to get information or ask. About when you can open the talk to the city council or do you talked to the. Main chamber and in the chamber and I kind of just spread it out through emails and. I just kind of filter out when I can so so far everybody is indicated to you that you need to remain closed has anybody indicated when you can re open. Now okay thank you Mr chair. You're recognized. You Mr chair I just wanna make sure that that I understand this you you get you've actually not been set down from the either state local city and there's no government has said you had minutes the is the nature of the pandemic that nobody's out you know they're not going the restaurants are not going to other things and so they're not coming to your your your your suffering from the base of the market created partly because we said everybody down but but it's not we haven't directly regulated your business now okay I mean it's never been. Now thank you. You're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair I'll join with their rail say thank you for being up here today have you or have you not received anything in writing or email as to the status of you receiving unemployment benefits as a self employed individual I receive something yesterday. That I could log back in and. I guess file for the week. Of the sixteen. But it still lets it doesn't say anything or tell you anything if you're approved or not approved it just tells you to go ahead start applying for a week by week. But I never received an email. Until yesterday. Period. Okay and follow up Mr. Record. And in that email that you received. Did it tell you if you qualified or did not qualify as an applicant or can you remember the contents of what that email was your. Now it just said to. If approved it would be the minimum hundred and thirty three dollars I think and then to go and start doing weekly. Weekly filings. Okay and Mister chairman I ask you a question. Yes Sir I'm I'm looking exhibit D. which I think relates to the subject matter either directly or close to it anyway. And the response by direct prestin is updates concerning payments qualified applicants will be provided in writing to the qualified applicants and the entire legislature as information becomes available I'm to her defense I'm questioning whether or not what we've been told in writing is in direct conflict to the fact that she is not received what we've been told people are supposed to be receiving and maybe if the young lady would not mind sharing with the chair of the be interesting if you would just to see what corresponded she's got to see if that's what actually we're being told is being sent out or not if the chair would choose to do so but and if the young lady would choose to do so thank you Mr. Senator yes I think that's a great idea and miss save if you would judge will get with you and if you provide that information and will follow up with it okay. Say no further questions from committee members for miss seven others will run state what many command committee members of already tell you we really appreciate you appreciate you coming before this committee and sharing your story it's been very informative and helpful very helpful to us thank you so much thank you for your time thank you Mr garner. Back to the top of the agenda go back to Adam city. First on the agenda was The. To authorize alcohol beverage license suspension the director of the I'll be so submitted a letter you can find that it exhibits some one I have seen one bay not allowed in attendance today. So. Representative rob sorry Senator garner you're recognized my comment thank you Mr chairman I won't belabor the point that we receive this email from ABC's director roughly about eleven o'clock I would wish we had more time to correspond with them to work out an arrangement where they could come but you can see their justification in that email and just wanna make sure the all members were where that off the letter from the governor and from the ABC director on why she denied of coming to a legislative meeting thank you. Thank you senator. Additional questions good item to under BCI Mack brown vice president of operations of temple lab reports may at. I guess the company would you Mr Scott yes Sir John's got attorney of record for temple up approach me if you would just have a seat at the table. House just for the record my name is Mike brown. John got K.. First. I'm not here to make a statement I was asked on behalf of a I believe senator Alan to come and answer any questions in regard to what transpired. Can. And if I may say that that was we understood that the main reason that. I'll. Your mac I'll. Thank you. So we we were here it as he said at the invitation but understanding that that the reason for the hearing was to talk to the A. B. C. chairman and that we've not seen the letter that you just reference so I don't even know what they said. If they just declined the that the if it was a substantive did it have any explanation for their actions are just say they declined to participate. Of the record. Sir up did this will be on the agenda so this will be public record what we received by the to give you a brief summary of what I've read the letter from the governor was the legal justification on why he had the authority and power to enact the ABC revocation of the license the ABC directors letter once again this is me summarizing in the members can obviously take their own thoughts of it is because of your attendance here that somehow that would violate any kind of legal hearing they may have going for. I finally disagree with that since we are legislative body not a judicial body and we have no adjudication power to do anything what we wanted was the ability to discuss with them how the process went see how that would act in the future and and potentially find it more information for if we want to change the law moving forward like I said we received that letter revealed eleven o'clock today would not be here and instead of trying to negotiate trying to get here authority betters hold a meeting the chair is that your understanding. Well we spent a lot of time driving in he Mister brown resides in Tulsa the the venue that also is in Fort Smith and I came down from there bill this morning so if there's any facts timeline or any anything that that the committee would like clarification we can do our best but I feel a little hampered because that there's a lot of words on this paper here and I I can't read that fast so we've got trying to start anything we're just here trying to cooperate certainly we were affected by their actions and the you know that that the leave it at that. Questions from committee members. The six. DO pass. Which will be six. Ballinger twenty recognized for a question thank you Mr chair. Since we have here a what would be really beneficial to me is the county here your side of the story so so I'll tell you from from our side that we at the what we heard is that is that essentially the health department has been was working with you guys trying to work something out and you know the in a roundabout there basically was saying that you guys didn't have much interest in working with them now I I've actually heard your your presentation. The statement you all made we decide to move the date but it but I think that this committee would probably like to hear you know your side of the story like what will you know there was a limitation why why couldn't you satisfy the requirements of the health department you bet and I I've sort of got it's it's a pretty finite time line and so I think that is helpful in late April the the temple live understood that on may fourth there's gonna be a relaxation that large venues would be able to gather. in anticipation of that in anticipation is is this hair salon woman has said you know not being able to earn an income and her not being able income earned income as part of the reason I have two or three months after hair on my head right now so I have a hair cut since you know January so So they they scheduled the event. It's it was an international attention that somebody is going to bring music back live it to its gathering it's free speech it's it's important to people who like music. And they will because they knew that on may fourth the relaxation was going to occur they were contacted by the department health I think on or about after may fourth may fifth or six and someone said well by the way your events scheduled for may fifteenth is actually going to be three days before we allow indoor venues to begin and by the way when we do out indoor venues to begin it will be capped at fifty people. Of. And so Mister brown submitted this protocol which is absolutely safer than anything we've seen under any op any any recommendation or any CDC guidelines it was twenty percent capacity all attendees are going to have other temperature check to make sure they were well masks there's elaborate directional movement throughout the venue every other row was capped off importantly it's it's a beautiful venue it's eleven hundreds that seats forty five foot tall ceilings is very large and they're going to allow only two hundred and twenty nine people to attend so it was that a very them all it again and it's perhaps patentable to the extent that the weather been able to able to maximize the use of the space just like we've done here but it was more elaborate than that on how they use the space. So we got the the the initial feedback from the department of health was it's a very forward thinking I did you have any at this point we have the commission back to work with Stuart Walton had gotten up and said we want to see you know we want to see ingenuity and how people can get back to business he sided rock town distillery make and hand sanitizer and so from their perspective what is a positive opportunity we hope that the state would say that look what we're doing we're reading the first concert in country I'm sorry not meet application one time one but the point was trying to say is we're having a positive conversation they got their lawyers involved so they got me involved and so I start I don't six they had a conversation with the sum of three attorneys for the department of health and they're only stated that that point the again they were concerned it was three days early but they so what about where people coming from so we submitted more information from the ticket sales the review maybe sixteen people from out of state I sent that to them on the seventh. But interestingly on the six they were contacted by the A. B. C. that that on we're gonna be a drop worry when it the day I talked to the the department of health they got a call and said we're gonna have the ABC come in and inspect your premises an inspection team showed up three people it's never happened never happened before since the venue's been open ABC came and decided they would have an inspection make sure there's compliance three gentleman over there and eight complimented the venue this and you're doing a really good job here they don't they so we'll just go back and report there's no violation noted nothing they were in compliance fully in compliance with their a BC license so over that weekend what happens we we resubmitted you know with the over the weekend actually increase the size so that fifty would be a cap so from our perspective we were complicating something it was a positive dialogue maybe someone would recognize that set it on the fifteenth verses the eighteen. When charges could already meet or you know we're already eight with with no limitations like these guys had we thought you know maybe they'll recognize that as applied there's really not it's maybe a little arbitrary to say that you can go to church on Sunday you can't go to a concert on Friday that's dangerous but three days later you can go to a concert it's not dangerous and so our from our perspective it was not any disrespect for the law it was I think my clients legitimate right as a citizen in the United States of America to ask their lawyer. In government do this to us you know that's what we were we were assessing the law the legality in the constitutionality of making a distinction based on religion based up as opposed to gathering in the name of music. And it did get if there's anything more respectful to our United States it's somebody that I proud of my client for standing up and do in that. They did not say we are going to have it over you know he buys objection so anyway Monday comes we were gonna resubmit they said you're out you're welcome to resubmit your application with explanation of two things number one are people gonna be required to Matt where master number two how do you justify doing it three days early. I had the prepared at articulate response we are going to require mass and you know respectfully here's a few of the reasons we think that three days doesn't Nestle make a legal difference. And I was summoned to a phone call that afternoon with the governor and doctor Smith and me on the phone at four thirty on Monday afternoon. And it was polite but tone essentially was why are you all doing this. I mean don't you know how this is so unsafe. And our stance just I I appreciate the position but it's it's gonna be quite safe safer than going to Walmart not knowing who may be handled your apples before you pick them up in the produce section. And so again while our application was pending we learned during the daily briefing on one at one thirty the next day on Tuesday the governor said there will be a cease and desist order against this activity. We learned about it on television we waited throughout the afternoon and at four thirty I emailed this system thirty general said I have two questions and we we need to know what we're doing this Friday we have an application pending. And out of her there's going to be a cease and desist order so at five oh five that afternoon I got an email from Terry three pull Paul Terry call at the department health one sentence your application is denied. And at five fifty five that afternoon I received the cease and desist order that says you shall not hold the event so this is again this is this is Tuesday Wednesday we work was frankly recessing are what are we going to do how do you respond to this could they do that what what's you can governments to stop you for you know of. Were prior restraint on speech and and gathering you know is this legal. And so Thursday morning well we're still trying to decide what are we going to announce the public because there are people have travel plans they've invested money in wanting to come in frankly just excited as can be and again why we were so invested that date this thing everyone was covering it Rolling Stone was covering it Billboard magazine's covering it pole star Bloomberg New York time Chicago Tribune the eyes of the world are on this and frankly you know if you as a citizen when you've spent the money and they just they were proud and hope that at some point someone would say please give me the okay. And so I'm preparing to go down and help make the final decisions before a press conference I get a call that the ABC is they're demanding their license. With that advisable von what basis is that they have an ex parte order this is they can seats that deter temporary spending our license and it said your license is suspended and you can have a hearing on June third. Which really does nothing for in the meantime you can't you can't you can't it's suspended and you can't not gonna get a hearing before the fifteenth and you're not gonna get a hearing before the eighteen. And so I so they wanted to bring it out to them and I so I just put my hands up and say you know do what you have to do so the gentleman walked in the building and physically removed it from the wall and left with it but there was a clause on the order this is but if the that in writing from the government this is we have the authority to walk in your business and seizure properties a but if you announce the fifteenth the event is off we will return your license to you. And at that point we had no choice I mean that I say we the climbing it we had been compelled by government action by an order from the the governor and for the the whoever issued car got but a state order and a suspension of a license without a hearing prior notice and had no choice but to retool and move it and what we did is we once we did that we called in the A. B. C. walked it back out to us on Friday they did approve the event as planned for the eighteenth and we had a wonderful event and it was reported again in the New York times and in every work at all across the of the next morning the there were foot you know Getty photography took pictures it's been everywhere it's been a a beacon for the fact that people can gather back in here music again in a safe way I was there present and I can tell you people respectful of that I was even corrected I had an all access pass and I start walking the wrong way down a divided hauled and some is not you got to go up there as an out sorry but of it was so it's and we're happy the event occurred it was we brought you know love and light but this opportunities what we looked at it as but you know. That's that I'll leave it at that really that's that's probably more than anybody wanted but that's what we when we saw this is doing investigated and we were asked to come that's why we came because of we never announced we were going to have it over the cease and desist order we never in that it said that the reason the ABC that sort of important fact the ABC order said because or in that they plan to have it over the. The over the cease and desist order we're taking your license so you know it's that that was not the fact that had never been publicly announced or even decided that it was going to a car overseas to desist order of and here we are the. The difference between. You might of all of the difference between what actually took place on the eighteenth and what was planned on the fifteenth of just the date right I mean you're you're find order that you submit or. Graham is amended yeah captain twenty percent of my can actually we would have had the opportunity to apply to almost double our capacity under the new state I lines for two twenty nine to three hundred and sixty three so it was it was still peril you in its clearly it wasn't a health and safety issue thank. Senator Johnson you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair and I I will direct this to you Mr Scott conditionally galaxies and feel free to jump in Mister brown to but you he's the Arkansas lawyer Saul trying to kind of run of. Did you consider the activities of your client either in this particular of at our previous events to be peaceable. Absolutely okay so it be safe to say that they were exercising their first amendment rights to peaceably assemble is that what you would interpreted one hundred percent yes okay and of by threatening to take away their ability to make a living with this bill would that possibly be considered to be debating depriving them of life liberty or property without due process of law censored push No hearing prior to the revocation of the license is at which that set out the Fifth Amendment as you well know. And among other issues yes I've I would agree and I want to go to the fourteenth amendment that really gets complicated but for the state interfering with interstate commerce since before for coming from out of state yes Sir and and I absent your our cans and from northwest Arkansas as you this two and again Mr brown if you get Sunday at please jump in Have you been to a Walmart or a Lowes or home depot since the pandemic began I have could do was there anyone checking to see where those people were coming from that were going in those stores to the best of your knowledge there were not okay so the but they seem to be concerned about where Mister brown's customers were coming from of. My concern about all this is is you mentioned the issue with churches the people to peaceably assembling. Is it the government's business to the side you know what the content is I mean if as long as it's not obscene done violate community standards and there's you know but we we treat. Gatherings equally do we not that's our belief that the US Supreme Court Jacobson back to nineteen oh five talked about in times of national emergency some your civil rights might be stepped on but it can't be done so arbitrarily and and not content specific content specific as well and we're not here to the to the debate the science but we are curious in the records of this state what medical findings are data were considered to it because I've been told been several context in this conversation that they believe that churches are just inherently local people and the concert may have people from out of state and I respectfully disagreed that many border congregations that have specially if they have maybe a television ministry but even that many border communities have regular attendees from out of state to come across in that we don't know of any church that contact traces or knows who walks in the door of the church and in this case when you're selling the tickets they knew the postal code from which every purchase came. I can I think we're on the same line here but but basically there's no restriction most churches put on their marquee all are welcome and they don't say everyone from Arkansas's welcome ruin for bill Laskey county or Sebastian county is welcome they decide all are welcome and least that's the way most Christian churches operate I can't speak for other face but at least my observation is that we're we're pretty open about you know letting folks again to a church and a Walmart or a Lowes or home depot and I'm I just I I'm not I'm very concerned when we get using the the arm of of a liquor license or some other people's licenses granted by the state after much scrutiny and and certainly under very reasonable regulations and that's it's appropriate that the state does regulate sale of alcohol but I'm I'm just very concerned about the content specific part of this and I'd seriously thank you for coming in and allowing us to ask you questions about this because again why we're here is to gather information that might lend us to do a better job of of legislating and perhaps four seeing problems in the future that we could fix through the statutory changes it I wanted to express my thanks it it's it's hardening wing government does look in to police itself because the concern you have when you're you know representing the citizen is that you know all government will just. Rubber stamp what's done and it we recognize and we're we're it's this is just a profoundly. Serious situation to the people it does affect the minutes it's something it is a matter that had as to be dealt with. And sometimes you just make a decision that affects one of your constituents or when you're citizens and the to be cleared of the the venue is owned by Arkansas company BT capital and it's a it was a tremendous restoration project that have half a million dollars of government that tax credits that spent millions of dollars restoring a historic building that's it's beautiful building and you know for that is to the citizens you know if there's times I feel like a back is against the wall you've you've received in order for sensually planning something and trying to work it out is it's probably over simplification but it would almost be like if you're late for work or late for church you came out of your house who hadn't been late for church if you got a family and you come out of the police officers that I'm in need your driver's license right now he's wise that you're about speed. But if you promise me you won't speeding have a driver's license back. We wouldn't want that world she got one last. Jayapala all up Mr of. In this timeline you mentioned that you had a pending request and I will use the word waiver because we use that in in state government sometime from some of the regulations the a BC people had come in and actually said Hey we like how you're sitting this thing up of was this request to Could you give us a time not from when the request was pending. Prior to the time you were told. I could you could give us your license back I did use the were SO we believe either to recognize that the distinction isn't corrected we use the word waiver so again at five oh five on Tuesday. we got the one liner that your application is denied and some I read I did respond to the department of health in writing I got the that the that somewhere in the public records or I can provide it I said does that mean the only reason it's denied is the date. And if that is the only obstacle would it be approved the same event be approved for the eighteenth so you know we would. That had occurred you know it the the cease and desist order was issued before you know I have the opportunity to say that because we didn't know that is amended I'd but you know from our perspective we had we had you know we were asking for clarification is the date the only problem with the event and if the date is the only problem would it be a problem on the eighteenth so that that had not been answered to me. At the as of the morning of the. For Thursday morning the fourteenth that had not been answered at that point so okay our position be we still were having discussions that that was where I was headed you reviewer in negotiation with the health department on that correct okay thank you very much for the German thank you Mr chair. Representative Dotson you're recognized for a question. You Mr chair I'm not sure exactly how I'd like to start but My level of frustration at this moment time is not directed toward you in any way shape or form This is I've been legislature for almost eight years and this is the first time my recollection an agency is refused to appear before a legislative committee. So my refrigeration is really directed toward them if you're watching from the live stream please take note Since I can't ask them a question I'm gonna have to ask you the question In you alluded to it but. I'd like to know what was the specific violations cited by the ABC. of action taken by you for suspending your license without due process mac look in my yeah if you've got that order because they. In their letters I've read through this in and I'm just like you we didn't have prior knowledge before coming I live in been bills I drove three hours to be here and I was looking forward to getting some of these questions answered and so I'm very disappointed the order says you were presented with a cease and desist order from the Arkansas state board of health and the department so department of health instructing you to cease plans to continue your may fifteenth twenty twenty large indoor event your determination to proceed with your event is in violation of section one point seven nine seven. In a class C. violation in section one point seven nine three two. A Class A violation. Those are. That would mean they said that we either No goodness. We either failed to maintain health safety and sanitary standards. Which they had inspected the previous Thursday and found no violations. That's ninety seven and thirty two. Is failure to be a good neighbor. House the Arkansas General Assembly in the beverage control what you power to adopt regulations every holder should be held a high do you care operate their business or beverages are sold in a manner to the public interest which dead and injured in danger the public health welfare or safety. So again I would say that sort of he's me off again what what what what factual findings were made that it was unsanitary or unsafe by the alcoholic beverage control board that's that's you know different than the direct parts of the provided no instance of unsafe for our and sanitary conditions are public health violations that was the base prior to that suspension of your license right into it so that was the that was the the basis they sided and all bold letters and in that the language I referenced earlier said upon public confirmation that the event will not proceed on may fifteen in violation of the cease and desist order FOR the Arkansas state board of health in the Arkansas department health the permit will be returned. And it has since been returned it was returned. The letter that and I know you think you have a copy of it toward the toward the end of the letter last paragraph. This third last line on it says. The there's an administrative violation. Outside the proper form. Who is that is that on the one from a BC this is the the letter I'm looking at the last page of yeah this is apparently the one that we received at eleven o'clock today. to the state agencies. Committee. Says Howard agency will not waive the administrative process is afforded under the law to the board those they regulate normally participate in a hearing on administrative violation outside the proper form so this is what they're saying is an administrative violation we're not received it violation the vet was at the event occurred with the permission written permission of the department of health. Okay. Thank you. The calendar recognized. Thank you you said that in April you had started you're planning for this concert based on being told that may fourth large indoor venues would re open can you tell me who did you talk to who told you that or was it in writing do you have any information about what specifically was said to which the rely on that. Following information that was public as far as was coming out of the governor's office where they were speaking at covered updates were they were planning on opening up large venues on may fourth request follow up. House follows. You know I follow those pretty closely myself and I didn't recall seeing anything about large and do indoor venues being allowed to open on may fourth do you have any specifics about what was said that what you to think that I would have to go back and look kind. Senator hammer you're recognized for a question thank you just point clarification is anything under current litigation as far as you suing or anything that violated the what was reference while goes far as the ministry violation Anne eight litigation going on right now on this thing there is not any okay second point I actually pastor church on make sure there's a clear message that that this is not us versus them because in some ways somebody could perceive the tone of that I think we're both trying to protect each other's rights as far as what of religious organizations were allowed to do and what you were seeking to be allowed to so we just for point of clarification say this is not us versus them that that that's a hundred percent true well though we're not challenging saying that that in the we we we completely record recognize the first amendment rights and and the freedom of route you know to worship in the symbol and and there's is nothing about that it's just the the the the the comparison was that this event was relatively you know what we believe on equal footing. Or as far safety. Absolutely and FOR for us it was never an us purses the church at all I mean I'm I'm glad that they were able to get in on the eleventh as as I think that any group that wanted to get together under the same guidance verses a directive should have been allowed to do okay because I mean and we've chosen as our congregation were waiting to the thirty first but the the thing I would hate to see happen is somebody show up prior to up Saturday and say you all can't meet Sunday which would be the same thing as what happened G. all is that before you actually committed anything in the way of a violation because who really knew to the last man that you're going to have the production your you are punished before the fact instead of after the fact did you actually intend to sell alcohol at the event. Yes okay and and help me understand the environment because. Whose Lysons was that that was actually pulled was it and I'm just not I don't know the structure so was it the facilities license that was pulled was it the advanced life if it was the it was the facility we we operate and promote within so it was the license that was issued to the facility it's a large of and you facility alcohol permit okay a worry that people coming in to the concert from designated hot spots. No not that a purchase tickets there were not that I'm aware of no all right so when they lifted the ban of travel from state to state be on the basis of you couldn't come from a hot spot in the identified like New York in New Orleans none of the ticket holders and that was disclosed in the communications with ABC yes Sir I mean an off from there were very few in there were some coming from des Moines Iowa Joplin Missouri Kansas city and those in the that's the area that we were having people that were coming from out of state okay because if I remember right the travel ban between states was lifted prior to your vet that was being scheduled so the argument that people might be coming in would would been Nolan board at that point and then my last question thank you Mr here's this and goes back to thank what Representative Dotson was drawn to in the last paragraph of the letter I'm just curious as to why the director could not be here if there's no of current ongoing litigation because that's usually what happens when somebody shows up in a committee meeting we asking questions they say well we can't comment to that because there's ongoing litigation but there's no ongoing litigation and if there's no current activity that would prohibit a discussion because proper form is not being carried on what's the reason for the director than not to be here to have just a friendly conversation and would you agree thank you. Thank you Senator hammer. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chair is the health department in. Okay of the reason I ask Mr chair. Of. It is. Been doing claims in my business for years. And I learned as a very young man. Never to go to on a claim with only one party. To make sure all parties were there or I was going to get he said from one side and then I was going to go back and get. The other side tell me a story and then the other side's going to amend other store and I want to get everybody in the room. And that has served me well here in the legislature as a committee chair. Of that it is my policy to get everybody in the room. Expressly. After I heard about this incident. And I called attorneys including attorney's within the legislature and others and I said this doesn't sound right do we have the there's a state agency have the ability to pull license I mean there's a movie I think Tom Cruise was and where they they arrested people given life sentences FOR murders that they. They thought they were going to commit in the future that's a do you know I'm not a lawyer but does a state agency has the right to do that and and I call law enforcement them to and they all told me they didn't think so. So I called the head of ABC. And ask bill. What they had done importer power was and they told me that they believed. That the. The that these folks who are strangers to me. Of. Had not in any way cooperated with the health department. And that was the reason I said well even if that were so I don't understand how you could do it but I said I think you're gonna find out that's not true you know I said I don't know but I think I said from what I have heard they did try to cooperate. And so that's why I wanted a mall in the room because I don't know their grievance this idea of the but we want to hear their grievance I get so tired of people telling the legislature what we're doing and what we're not doing. What we what we're interested in. It was a state agency and whether the ready overstep their bounds or not and by able by having somebody here so we can hear all the facts not somebody to rinse out the story we will be able to hear the other side of the story. Up just in case the call jobs. And so the in response to the letter and so this brings me to the ward prejudice which comes from the word pre judged. And it sounds like Mr chair it's it sounds like I wish we had people to question but it sounds like we pre judged. Which I don't think under the law we can do we pre judge what they were going to do. We judge what this committee was going to do. And but more important in that Mr chair. You know I've gone through the governor's letter. In the third paragraph says Arkansas emergency services act of nineteen seventy three charges the governor with responsibility. Of. Later on top the next page says under this same provision under this same provision the governor among other measures you go down right under that it says. The power I am not able to majority of the powers listed above but when appropriate I have invoked the necessary those necessary to fulfill my obligation as governor. Next paragraph that bought into the Senate says Arkansas law demands that the state board of health take specific actions the next paragraph the state board of health is charged with the general supers the Asian to Peres sale is has pursuant to this authority the next paragraph starts with pursuant to these rules. And we go down the to all. Close to the end the end of that paragraph says the General Assembly the General Assembly gave the a BC authority. And then we go down to the last paragraph in it says responded admirably to daily challenges during the course of this emergency they help help their obligations and the rule of law. I will continue to work with the General Assembly. I don't see. That I go back up to the previous two paragraphs in a sea two conclusions. In the middle of the next of the third to last paragraph is is it is an arguable that the violation of A health directive in public health emergency is a threat to public safety well that is arguable. I wear this mask to get in this building. But Dr Jim self said before the said we all wear Maskey said they didn't do any good I carry one with me everywhere I go in case I need to wear one but it's arguable just yesterday the CDC came out and said that almost nobody gets disease from services if it stays open years almost nobody gets the disease from that so there's lots of things that are arguable. The next progresses ABC director Doorly Chandler took the steps Arkansas law requires her to take well we don't we don't have another committee meeting again. Because exactly branch can tell us. They control all the conclusions we don't ask any questions. And so what really bothers me at this point because I still want my questions answered. But we have people. Who have last their whole livelihoods. Using everything who think that they need to follow the door the laws that have been passed by the General Assembly of the state of Arkansas. Import those rules is that that we have set up a state agencies committing. To oversee state agencies and to ask them questions. We expect people to give up their whole livelihood and lose everything because you're supposed to fall of the wall in the executive branch can't even come answer some questions which is also pursuant to the rules. We have a real problem. Thank you. Thank you senator. Representative god three recognized. Thank you Mr chairman thank you for being here am I just want to clarify after listening to your testimony for the re about the reasons you chose not to follow the director I heard you say that because it was because you thought it was arbitrary or unfair the timeline in the date because you don't you're not sure you believe the science that led to the directive and or and or that you think government doesn't have the right to administer the directive or enforce that am I correct in that it's all three of those and are any of those three more compelling to you than others and your decision to not follow the directive. Well I think your your print your premise is not exactly correct we we never said we refuse to follow the directive. Whiskey my client scheduled an event. Based on information that it believed would be in compliance. And when the dialogue started from the department of health. They responded and said here's all our safety guidelines that it's it's it was organic it was a conversation it was submitting information that we hope they would understand and believe we work presenting any greater risk than other activities are permitted. And you know it's it's possible that government when making directives or executive orders. Hadn't contemplated the type of that my client was going to have it just missed the radar. Maybe they would you know I from our perspective they may look at their date and so you know what we really didn't look any any data that would say this is less more dangerous than the rest and so you know we were we were trying to have a just a dialogue so I I think it's to say that my client chose not to follow the directive is that that's not all the way it was and as we looked at it again you you just have to respectfully look at the information we hope that this process when we send FO I requests and ask for that data. We hope we get some transparency in they give us the data and we don't get objections to our fifth FO I. the you know you can almost anticipate that if if the time comes in we need to say when you made the decision that that are event was less worthy on the fifteenth verses those that were already allowed or otherwise what David did you rely on what David did you rely on to conclude that people to go to church or just from the locality or people to go to the grocery store only from the locality but people go to concerts are inherently from dangerous hot spots mean was there actual signs that they looked at or is that just sort of you know folk knowledge that the and again they they got everybody's got to make a decision and pick a date we understand that. And the thank goodness it's not been the eighteenth so but we just happened to be that one citizen who had the dialogue going and kept it going I don't know maybe there have been others. But so I I guess I would say. You know we didn't know that that that was part of what we were just trying to figure out. Is can this you know what what do we if nobody's been in this position of what's the penalty. If there's a directive it did you miss about three days we're everybody's trying to figure out what you know what precedent is out there for this so you know we would hope the government would give the respect to the citizens that that you have a right to do that you know in a in involving unique world and that's what they were doing I think you know without me but I'm I'm not here to about two weeks first of all and I heard or grievance we're not here to air a grievance we were here because we thought that the A. B. C. had been called first that the first draft of the agenda was only that a and then we were asked would we come and tell our side and so we're we're here not under compulsion or anything just to answer questions and it's it's really it's interesting to see the the interest in the topic. Thank you. Thank you Representative. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I appreciate it Sir I don't know if I've got a question for you are not of. I believe that you may have to go before the ABC or whatever is required there however I would do wanna make a statement in regards authority with the other agencies have been forced to sit here try to do a little research. But it's going to read this is as oversight of state government is illegitimate legislative function an investigation into the management of the various institutions of the state and the department of state government is at all times a legitimate function of the legislature best Dickerson verses Johnson if anybody wants to follow the law. In addition it says that this power of the General Assembly to conduct investigations is an aide to the proper discharge of its functions to enact proper legislation there's an attorney general's opinion on that two thousand seven dash zero four four. Also sitting here trying to do a little bit of research and it appears to me the. That we have another letter in here that tries to allude to the fact that I've heard some members say that some type of list you know there's some type of investigation going on it appears like there may be some other wall out there this is we still have that authority to have those members down here despite the existing of the existence of that pending legislation. So as somebody else then I think it was represent dots in that they may be watching this line just live stream I think this is a horrible horrible precedent disease agencies are set city are setting by not coming before this body. And always try not to be arrogant or try to say this but in addition to that. I'm going to say it the way it is we do control that money any of these other agencies think that work that this body will allow this. Always speak for myself but I'm going to tell you right now there will be some bad times ahead thank you. Thank you senator. Hammer you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair we hear we're hearing the testimony today I will go back on one point because I issue very specific question and I just want to clear up something I asked you about people that were coming because you brought it up about churches being on state line I asked you did you have any ticket holders that were coming from out of state from designated hot spot areas and you said no and you cited to mourn I want a couple others but in reality prior to the lift didn't you have tickets sold to people that were in Louisiana that was a designated hotspot state and or could you clarify that or clear that up. Any impression there was no nothing and I just wanna make sure I'm not sure if there were tickets from Louisiana I can pull the data and I do not know at what point they were purchased a light in it I'd like to know that because you know we as legislators we represent people in the people are in here today talents are side story and positions that we take on the basis of accurate factual information that's given to us whenever we kind of take a bold stand I wanna make sure that because of from the department of health I don't know what you know ABC I think was just long arm of the law on this deal but the department of health You know if they denied your plan on the basis that you had ticket sales company and from states that we're designate hot spot I might be a little more sympathetic to the department of health side so I kind of like to see that that if you and my engine the mean I will go ahead jump I'll I'll say they approve the event so we're not complaining that the event was approved on the eighteenth. So in the statement we received we saw even on the press briefings was the problem with that was that was before the eighteenth that was the only basis I understood was used you're having it three days early not that we've identified that it's going to create a health risk as is because they approve the event under the same format with you know. At. Been allowed to play off on the fifteenth or any other date. had been fact someone from a hot spot that had not been cleared prior to the date the show would be played off we would of refunded their tickets and told them that they were not clear to travel into the venue so we had that data available if if in fact there had been a band at the time of the event the event had never taken place before any of this happened or thank you thank you Mr chair. You're recognized this I'd like to help clear up the date problem for some the other legislators. The. Question here but as a businessman. As a retailer I'm not more today. And. If I decide that today but on the by the seat of my pants. I'm all have whatever customers were already coming in if I want to have a successful Memorial Day sale I've got to a plan two to four weeks in advance and I've got to have the ads out there except for and if the government hasn't told me whether I can be open or not I have to either gamble. That I'm going to be able to go ahead and. By we add to do the planning. And as someone who's been working in the governor's office has been wonderful they have worked their tails off to try to get an amusement park in this state open. And it and at the same time we will keep everybody safe summed we also have a hard time understanding that people have to put their vacations on the calendar it work. They have to decide whether they're going to go here they're going to go somewhere else and somewhere else is already so they're open they may already say they're going to go there and if you're gonna be open you need to start running those ads. And so this idea of plan in an event. And. Not knowing an exact date yet and taking a gamble. Is not. Insubordination. It's a matter of saying here's what here's our best guess. And and let's turn this around. Hello this with Ford. The first concert in the country had been here it would have been big news for that locale it would have been good news for Arkansas ensure it would have been big for them there's always a selfishness of. In capitalism of but isn't that true. The about the planning aspect that's absolutely true and as you said the good will you have with your ticket I mean I'm part I'm currently holding all sorts of concert tickets that got cancer and of course would have airfare I could have travel plans and so you know the the as being having been in that position your cut your fingers crossed you know let's I hope I'm gonna get to go in there's disappointment they have to have something on a Monday versus Friday I mean that would they lost ticket sales are I mean you don't call it also take it overnight you don't call an act up and so they just show up tomorrow not not less it's Garth Brooks. Well it we had we had a they had a film some people are into I live stream that were ready to you know to to broadcast this of people could watch on the computers and they had to re you know re arrange their schedules to do it Monday instead of Friday and so there's there's a lot that goes on they had to make new T. shirts that put of line through the fifteen so the eighteenth so the so you get a but but of course this the resort reward for being first and so you work game one trying to cut the lawn I mean I'm I would I'm not cut any slack because I don't think there's anything wrong with that and then when the line comes up on the other side I don't think there's anything wrong with asking Hey we could you know what differences three days make up but I I I don't think it's so hard to see why somebody would be be trying to cut that line and not beat the not necessarily being insubordinate thank you Mr chair. By senator. You're recognized for a question. To. House. Hello hello just a minute. You're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman up. I was trying to follow the sequence of dates that you went through the very first and kind of put the big picture this together and I wanna make sure my understanding is correct. You begin to have discussions with the health department sometime before the particular day and those discussions basically did not result in a solution. And then the next thing that happened. Was sometime just before the fifteenth the A. B. C. shows up and starts inspecting and they say everything looks fine and then. A few days later a B. C. comes back and says we're shutting it down. Give us your license did I get to see a list of events Iraq and I'm not trying to I have a dates really stick in my head so it may seventh was when the A. B. C. inspection occurred with us Thursday may seventh. The event was scheduled for Friday the fifteenth. On the morning of the fourteenth Thursday the day before the event is when the ABC showed up is we had a conference they had a conference that they were going to make an announcement of what they're gonna do that afternoon one thirty so they hadn't even announced their final decision when that on the fourteenth when this occurred they haven't who's that who's I that temple live my client had not announce to the public but they they were it under the gun that we've got to tell these people that have tickets what happened it's tomorrow and they put off as long as they could hoping that we might. Salvage a waiver permission or recognition of some sort but you know that decision was made when the liquor license was pull that it really threw everything into disarray you know to that that point so they just made the like they really said they had no choice I mean they've ever just directly or at least You know it in implicitly or constructively they were directly or constructively barred from having it by both in order and the seizure of their license may I continue Mr. You're recognized back to my first supposition you really did not reach a conclusion about what was going to happen with the health department is that correct that's correct when that when that happened. And ABC came in the seventh they look everything over things fine but then they come back the day before and so we've been told to shut you down. Right that we were as it said either under the parentheses we were it was gonna be unsanitary or and say for not a good neighbor next question here follow it may be directed you Sir did you get the impression that a BC after they had looked everything over said looks fine within told to comment ceci down. I think that those guys they were in a hard position they'd that we've we've had an extra relationship with them and lance metes had an actual relationship with the alcohol beverage commission state of Arkansas for multiple years with zero violations in any entity that he's ever been a part of so for me to speculate what their opinion was I can't but in my opinion yeah they were directed based off of the document that they handed to me that was not based on anything that we actually violated as what we were tasked to do to operate a of a beverage license in the state of Arkansas we have one more Mr. I'm drawing a picture in my mind and you tell me if I've got a correct picture of the forest stiff the trees you had discussions with A. B. C. they didn't like it they complained up through hierarchy somebody said send ABC up there they inspected on everything looks good somebody still got may have got their feelings hurt absent so you're not going to defies sent ABC back to shut you down is that what happened if we find out that's what happened You know when this hearing commit commences again we may actually be in litigation thank you know the that's the. You know where I like to say something John amendment in addition started. In and I'm gonna say it was intimidation at I think the day that that the the governor was asked about this event and I'm not clear if it was the first time or the second time on may fifth I believe is the date and doctor Smith was asked well what what would you guys to to enforce this and the comment was a we don't carry guns but the state police does. Thank you thank you Mr. McKenzie recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I'll try to be brief maybe a one and done in this can cover the entire thing because I came with just a few questions one in this top topic matter and a couple on some others are going to ask secretary Preston and and like represent Representative Dotson I have a three and a half hour drive appear I didn't know until I got here that. The books I would like to to visit with are going to be here. And as I sat here and thought about it couple members came to mind Roma's my dad who's a bit of a character when he was campaigning he was a campaign against an incumbent one point income but one when debating so my dad decided he just make himself a little cardboard dummy and he took him around the thing and invaded that cardboard enemy in it and then just not not maliciously and if I'd known before I left today I might have found that done the the garage environment and putting my peer and the parent I need to make a few more. I think we're missing an opportunity as I guess I want to say here I thank accountability is good. I think I need it everybody has a boss all of us do I think our department heads needed I think many advisers makes for better decisions. This was a missed opportunity for the taxpayer's and for the people. Everybody makes mistakes things can always be done better. I told people I was come here to committee meeting today to express if you thought and get it I get a few answers to some questions. No desire to be ugly. But to make things better. But here I am. I appreciate the folks for being here but I think this is this is no way to run a railroad and I think I hope we learn from this this is a missed opportunity to actually done some service for some people I have lots of questions I can't can't can't bring to you folks are really the folks that are gonna be hopefully coming but I'm disappointed. And hopefully that's my one and done. Thank you Representative. Senator Clark you're recognized. Yes the health department is here. And the so back to the the meat of the matter is I would like to hear from them about what the health since this is a health emergency it's not a tornado earthquake health emergency what the health concerns were about this concert and whether these people cooperated or didn't cooperate in trying to alleviate those things other than this three day. Difference own of when you could and could not have it. They are here and there on the agenda and build upon shortly we have an opportunity to ask those questions thank you Mr chair. Ballenger you're recognized thank you Mr I just want to make sure currently there's no administrative hearing your procedure scheduled right now with ABC right correct I I there's no basis the only thing I saw there's a temporary suspension in response to their demand we in order I guess we but but it's been reinstated a license back yeah right the maybe it maybe agreements but the truth is it's all behind you there's almost nothing for what what I I mean it what I'm trying to do the. And and I think that this is been echoed over over again so I don't wanna be to dead horse but the truth is we're only here once out of the store right now right I mean and and I've been around here long enough to know that there's two sides of every story but the truth is it's not like we've prohibited the other side from being heard and it's really frustrating to me that that they're not here just like a lot of other people and and the reason why they they do it is because there is a administrative procedure in order to be able to hear grievances Bob law but there's not even any real chance of you finally administrative and and rector request a hearing on what what would be your your grounds for doing so since it's that opportunities past and you know you got to license and so at this point there's no no intent to file through the administrative process anything because what he had filed for well we I haven't reviewed that the end of the first week we had the event and I've got you know more than this case I learned last to it's not only matter handle and when we learned about this you know we we came here blind we didn't know but that you know the questions would be hard hitting on us so there is a little anxiety about what are we coming to I mean we didn't we didn't know what today was even what the concerns work right but so I you know we're gonna just one day at a time we're gonna go look and now you said that we will see what grievance procedure there is I'm I'm not a regular alcoholic beverage control lawyer but no some that are. It you know one of things that I I would just like to take out a kind of point and get your take on it I I had a a constituent struggling with the health department on the requirement for a water tank and and visit with them to settle will let me help you let me step in and I'll intervene with the health department your work out in this constituents that look the truth is I think we may build work this out without you and if if if you get involved and we get it worked out I'm still under the regulations of the health department I still have to deal with these local people I still need to have have people that I can work with and I'm afraid if you get involved then it basically changed everything I mean the truth is there is an administrative remedy that you guys have but you're still going to be regulated by ABC afterwards you know you still have to work with these people so if you guys create a big stirrer later on you know they may not give you the same flexibility that they would otherwise they maybe a little more picky that you may have more time to you have three ABC inspectors come out just check out your business see how you doing and that's something that you know sometimes we forget the power of the state is it doesn't go away when the issue is no longer an issue for us as a legislator they still have to deal with those regulation so you know I if if I were just an attorney representing you if I was in your shoes im eight tell my client like look you may have an agreements that you have a right to be heard but later on you're still going to regulate by the A. B. C. maybe she'll let this one slide and let it go I mean you've you've probably given clients that kind of advice before right. It's unfortunate if that's the state of the law but we both men reality that if if people want to I guess. Hold grudges. Or retaliate the server source what is the at. I hope that's not anyone's intent here please. I will say my clients in the business of put not music not litigating against governments and that's the that's the businesses you know and one thing that hasn't been touched on is is this venue is not just in a music venue we have three ballrooms in a restaurant they were also in jeopardy by them taking a liquor license so one that would have had a wedding or a corporate event for a state meeting I'm when we've had the mayor of fort Smith's inaugural party at our building we've had our best banks presidents club at our building so it stopped either right to do everything that we do in that building not just have a music event. Clark you have another question thank you for your indulgence Mr chair I just want to address us something that the witness just said. You said you did know what what it's been very hard questions for you. We didn't either this state agencies had shown up here. And had presented credible testimony that you guys were line or were jerks and had tried to work with them in any way this could go on in a very different way we're not here to pick on state agencies we're here to get to the truth and so you keep that in mind of the word not show up so that about because we still know we have your side of what happened we're upset that we don't have the other side of what happened which Castell I'm not the only one side shows up in the other side doesn't but normally you could expect some very tough questions by I and I'll I'll say this because I will defend I believe well I'll defend my. Representation my client was. On their behalf it was civil. the people I spoke to the attorney general's the. The governor the doctor Smith. I didn't really get a chance to talk to anybody from the ABC that's that's one bit but I will I will say that everyone's discourse was respectful even if they disagreed is that that's what law is if if every time someone says here's my view of the law your obligation is to say well then I guess I have no position there would be no there would be in you know of not much to it but I I believe that the discourse went back and forth in was civil at least for the words that were spoken in the words that were typed we just don't know about the decision making process is it in the result and the orders but but that I hope nobody would say that we were discarded this or disrespectful of the process we just stated our our belief of what was right. Just a statement. People would say that you were discovered this and that's why I'd like from the say it here. again and I don't know who I don't know if you were or you want. A know if I would if I had a sworn in because of you say something about state government state agencies most committees don't do that that's just something I do because of but because I'd like for you to be sworn in and to be sworn testimony I thought you clarify who said I was discourteous no I won't but but I I'm just saying that's why I what I like to everybody to sit in chairs and say what they got to say because I believe you. But we're only here once of the story but that's their choice. And it was not ABC. Senator Clark. A Rapert you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I appreciate it no I'm not a member of the committee so I've been listening observing and really this is probably up for the chairs for both of you I may have missed a little bit of the beginning of the discussion but it's very obvious that you you know one thing leads to another and the the fact that we don't have an agency here to answer on behalf of what's going on I just wanna make mention that I would suggested the chairs that you try to find out really who made the decision for that to happen. because there are several layers that are that are involved in this and I can see where some people are going to get very angry at certain individuals in different positions I think it would be really important and would be very revealing to to find out who actually made the decision for them not to come was chairman I just think it be important specially lot I'm looking at senator Hickey here too I think you'd be very important because I know some of the individuals in these different layers who work very hard and are typically always very willing to to come and discuss what they've done and I can see that this this situation is not going away for those that are watching as well this particular issue his has changed things quite a bit I think from what is normal of totally aside from the issue center here and so I really want to address the chairs and and suggest that you do is you do look into that you actually find out who made the decision because I think that you might find that it be interesting what that answer is. Thank you Mr thank you senator point well made and it. Representative Gazaway recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I'm over here to your right. one to follow up on a few comments that Representative Ballenger made any when he discussed about advising your client that in the future you might wanna be aware that you will continue to be regulated by the ABC and that maybe that somehow should play into your decision making process. And my concern with that I think goes strikes at the heart of my concern about everything that's been displayed here today which is that you Mr brown mention the word intimidation and I think in response that I heard the word retaliation. And the concern that I have is that I that you should have to live in fear of the government because you tried to work with them and had a disagreement with them or that they thought that you weren't going to do something that they wanted you to do and to me that strikes at the heart of what we should all be concerned about here today and again there are two sides to every story now look forward to hearing the other side of that story but to clarify some points to make a determination if there truly was intimidation and retaliation here because if there was that's a problem. That is the sort of thing that we see in totalitarian regimes that we see in dictatorships but is not anything that we should expect to see in a government that is supposed to be of the people by the people and for the people. And so in that regard I would like to know and just for clarification. What is the specific entity that holds the liquor license. How long has that entity have the liquor license. How many previous inspections prior to this one. Has been conducted with respect to the venue or the liquor license and how many violations have there been I think all of those would be important points to know. as we continue to look at this thank you. And yet this but I I I can speak to that that we have multiple entities and did very states and and this I will confirm and I will provide this information for you if I mean. But the entity that we hope that liquor license in his temple live LLC the local manager that is on the license name is Francisco Batista. To my wrecked recollection the only inspection that we've ever had after our initial inspections once we were licensed and we officially put the business and operation October or August twenty fifth two thousand and seventeen was the inspection but we had at the on set up all of this and and and so our and and then that inspection as we've discussed there was zero violations. Thank you. Representative Lowery you're recognized for a question yes thank you Mr chair and actually. My questions probably for you I I've been hearing of it in the timeline that there seem to be Positive interactions with the ABC the previous week in terms of their inspection so the question was asked awhile ago if the department of health is here it seems to me it's clear that where there was an impasse was with the department of health is there someone here that could answer questions about the process or their knowledge I note doctor Smith is not on the agenda to be here but I did see that legal counsel are are on the agenda. Got two more questions in front of you and and Lester's additional questions then we'll have the department of health come to the table all right thank you can. Hammer you're recognized thank you Mr chair when they came to you and told you that they were pulling your Lysons who showed up to tell you that and on whose authority did they present them self as. Knowing the license. It would it would be on the order that John has in front of him it was signed by who John. Doorly Chandler director an individual agent's name and he's not of the territory I don't recall its name. But the agent presented in said your license is being pulled on the orders of the director of a B. C. or did they say the orders of somebody else it was the orders of the ABC number two agents from the alcohol beverage commission that showed up or thank you aren't right yes they were armed. You're recognized thank you Mr chair and this is probably for you are staff but I would like to know the last. Regular meeting of the alcohol beverage control board and I'd like staff to to get this minutes from that meeting. If there's multiple minute meetings within the time frame we're talking about I would request that we have it from any meetings that they've had regarding this subject. Even. Where they live I just like to know if if the board even met or did the director act unilaterally and this. BLR has the knowledge and the bill if they can obtain an activation thank you. God we appreciate your time today thank you for being here send no further questions thank you very much. Thank you thank you very much. Committee members if we will go out of the Secretary of the department of commerce my question is not. And. So ten line for that explanation I believe senator garner has commonly. Thank you Mr chairman so I want everybody to look at exhibit D. and E.. we reached out to secretary prestin because like many of you I've been gravely concerned about the potential data breach of at least thirty thousand or cantons who used to P. U. a website A today we heard from two members who have their information on there and I don't know many answers to those questions be frankly honest with you I've heard that it's not just a thirty thousand people it could be their spouses and kids who filed a joint tax return I don't know how many people actually went in there and look at it weather was the one potential whistle blower or more and if that that is being used to compromise we asked secretary press to come explain these things because this is a very important issue for the people who already heard. He denied that request inside the FBI investigation. So I checked with staff and we often have people in front of our committee who are under investigation many of your chair audit I see Senator Rapert we have people who have criminal charges in front of them who still come and testify. So I disagree with his assessment at because he's under investigation you can't calm but I decide to compromise and has staff reach back out to. And see if there's a specific subject you can't discuss in relation to the P. U. a data breach that's fine we would like to ask you questions about the P. U. way and other issues I don't know if you know with the P. way today have many people receiving their first direct deposit thank. That's a positive piece of news that we could explain to the public. There's other issues whether the cares acts will be used by the department of commerce for additional grants whether we're doing anything to. Follow up on president trump and center cotton's efforts to move manufacturing back United States. We see if there's a specific issue you could talk about we would accept under the advising a council I cannot discuss that subject and move on to other additional questions. As secretary prestin once again refused the will and desire this committed to come and answer those questions. So I want to be clear that we did everything we could to accommodate the executive branch we understand he's under tremendous pressure pressure. But he isn't under the pressure that those thirty thousand people whose dad is breach right now who have been paid for two months in the multiple other people who are being hurt her being on. Challenge right now. I think it is disappointing I think it is incomprehensible that he wouldn't come any shows his. Blatant disregard for the authority and respectability body and I want to say that publicly and clearly thank you and. Well we cannot compel him to come normally. This committee does have we've checked the power of subpoena. And while I do not speak for my co chairman or to center called will I personally will probably be looking at moving forward as some subpoena power that if he won't show because of that we use the authority and respect his body to have him show thank you Mr. Thank you centers. I have a question in regards to Adam. Before we move forward. You do. You're recognized. Just to follow up on one Senator garner said I think there are important questions with regards to pay you a that many of us have been asking but as of may nineteen forty three states had already begun making payments in this program and I think that's a huge question I know many of you have been asking on this issue and I have been for quite some time I think we need to know wine it is taking so long how are we gonna make sure these people get their payments as quickly as possible and I think that's the important reason that someone from the department of commerce should be here today to tell us about that and have an opportunity for us to question I will say this they have been responsive when I have called it within the may not have answers but it's important legislative process for us to understand why we are lagging behind the vast majority of the nation in getting these payments out thank you. Recognized for a question. Thanks thank you Mr chair I just also wanted as they briefly I agree with senator garner senator bond that were and continue to be inundated with questions around P. U. eight I have a question actually for staff I think we're getting questions about how the developer of the website was secured how the the company or the the developer receive the contract is that something that's public information that that we could. We can acquire just to know what that procurement process entailed to know who that development company isn't and how they got the contract that would be helpful for me to answer the questions that come thank you. Staff tells me that the information is something they can of trying to make it available to you thank you and follow up on that we did request them to come and speak us we have a fair shot to explain what they do more for tackle aspect we were gonna sit opposing meeting similar to our first guest they denied it you can see in the exhibit for the exact same reasons are under investigation which. This is my personal opinion in future contracts with taxpayers money if they don't show to be held accountable I should definitely influence our decision whether to give them another contract and thank you I agree thank you. Senator Ballinger you're recognized thank you Mr chair at you know I I think in order to do this I think the committee needs to make a motion two to compel the director of of Preston and I thank you Mr Lee director to really Chandler also with ABC if we're going to do that we should go ahead and make a motion for them to to to show up and answer this committee I don't know if that'll actually require us first to have a committee it's maybe a question for the staff to have a committee meeting scheduled but if it's going to require a vote of the committee in order to get it done. You know if it's the will this this this body at that we need to go ahead and go to work on. Motion well it so I guess first my question is do we actually have to have a committee meeting scheduled before we're able to make the motion to compel you to issue the subpoena for them to attend. A committee meeting scheduled. So and if so then the question would be how do we make the motion to. Is a member. So if you know it can we go ahead and schedule a meeting in order to issue the subpoena for them to attend. I guess my question. That we can just call a motion that. The room just because the motion to to happen here and that when we do schedule our next meeting then that would apply at that time okay then I'll go ahead make a motion that we issue a subpoena to compel director Preston and director Chandler to attend to answer questions regarding the issues were brought up today. The motion is the dish I have a second any discussion. Him Well I wanna make sure all clear here is that we're all appear talking about following process and that's what we need to do in all things I believe that the Speaker and the pro tem. Are going to have to be involved in that amount not correct. So I don't want this body not to understand that if we make the motion possibly possibly it we should say that it should to be sent to the Speaker in the pro tem of I guess for their approval first. If I think that's a good point is probably within the motion it's a list of state and FOR clarity for the committee may not understand we can issue a subpoena without it being signed off on by both the Speaker in the pro to thank you Sir. Thank you senator Ballenger. That by chairs state agencies chairs which would be senator Caldwell unless. Would have to sign along with the Speaker to you. Okay. I have a motion and we have a second. Negative Eubanks. Which is not. Thank you Mr chair I just got I need a little clarification I don't know that I I don't think I have a problem with the motion but it was my understanding that the Senate and house chairs had agreed that part of this agenda was gonna be at a LC on Wednesday so if that's the case. I don't know why we're havin. Part of this discussion. So it if that's not accurate then. I would like to know that part whether it did the if the chairs had agreed that part of this agenda was gonna be at a LC on Wednesday for some of these people to answer these questions. Did that in fact take place is my question. The chairs of. I'm not the chair obviously on the vice chair but center Caldwell because he knew he would be here gave me to discretion to put the meeting together I was never contacted by leadership of either the house or the Senate had a discussion about you'll see personally or otherwise I can only speak for myself as a vice chair of the committee I don't notice of. At the this page topics proper will be discussed today of say next week for the a B. city and Secretary of commerce. I guess is part of discussion it's to me it's really curious wire they agreeing to discuss it in a LC when they say both of them said they don't want to talk about it I don't mean that let me just make a statement that should be offensive to all of us that that that that would be the case is that they would agree to come the ale see and talk about it when they tell us in in writing here that they can't talk about it because of potential on going to ministrations investigations or whatever but I guess my motion still still stands I think we should issue a subpoena get them here so we can talk about it yes if it becomes moot because we have the opportunity to you know ask these questions we don't have to follow through with it we can we can retract are to be. They show up at a senator the questions and your the motion would be needed at point would you agree yeah I don't have a meeting that that is unnecessary exactly and at that point couldn't the assuming that we have to wait on the approval of the pro tem and Speaker if this body approves it they could wait till after the meeting where they will get their approval not and if they did not because of discussion and is moved anyway that's probably the procedural part that stop it proceeding for at that that makes sense. Motion for this payment Check the department of commerce and. For the director may be say is that correct and is subject to the will subject to approval of the protein and the Speaker and the two chairs in the event that it's necessary if they don't appear to a L. say all in favor of that motion say aye aye all opposed say no. Ocean is carried. Do you have a. Question in regards to exhibit. The day on for today. You. Mark is in a. I've been waiting for. All of. Was talking about I'm sorry what Ford center you have given the number five number. Thirty eight it. Catch sign I was just trying to do a follow up to a conversation we were having before we started is it to see if I can request bill are to get us the contract amount for the company that created the website it was just a follow up to a comment that senator garner and represent got free have made. Thank you and I apologize so no problem okay bill large so noted did not take care of it. You're recognized for a question sure just really quickly I'm wondering if it's possible to make that a healthy meeting a joint meeting of state agencies and a healthy I said on both but I know that not all of this DO and that way an entity possible for for members of both a healthy and the state agency's committee to ask the questions that we all have so it's just a suggestion and good just to have that be a joint meeting thank you good suggestion thank you we're taking consideration. You're recognized. Thank you Mr chair just comment since most of these issues are health and labor I'm chair public health labor and welfare these issues we discuss on our monthly meeting and actually item D. is on our agenda for a June meeting which is a week from Monday and item eaves that that's discussed at every meeting. So those two items at least are on the menu on the agenda for a meeting a week from Monday so these individuals will be in that meeting. Hopefully. They'll be invited so just wanna give you that that you know we will be talking about this we do talk about every month and public health. so less available. You will be in attendance are you talking about what individuals you time out well item D. is on our agenda okay just an update the item he is also on our agenda for a week from Monday okay. So I'm not sure which individuals okay but I have realized that but I get it. Thank you. You're recognized for a question yes Mister one ask for your permission to go back and ask them about see. We had we would requested a twice of what we were an agenda item city to up to talk to the health department. Published at the table now right and I will as as for your permission before a question I'm on sea lab techs to recognize them and you'll be the first one a okay thank you you get. Okay thank you for patiently sitting there while we work through a few things but if you would just identify yourself for the record please yes Sir and thank you and the health department is here. Rodgers one of the Arkansas department I have. General counsel I'm the man the only person I've been at the health department twenty two years before that the state attorney general's office thirty five years as an attorney and so we have the millennials next to me our general counsel lower she knew and Dr Jennifer Delahaye but I'll let them proceed but I'm the. And and and so any heart criticism observations please directed to me I'm the one that provided the leadership and direction in this matter and so focus on me and bring it all. Thank you Reggie on large to general counsel for the department of health we appreciate the opportunity to address you today is my understanding that we were asked to speak on a cove it updates issues related to contact tracing privacy concerns emergency declaration and regulations on business we can provide some information to the extent we have knowledge as to the temple live events but we were not at prepared to talk about the temple live specifically today I have witnesses that I would like to bring to the table that have a specific information about the temple live of it I can obviously speak about what I know as a witness and what I have personal knowledge I've but I do not have all of my witnesses present with me to address the temple live event and so to in order to fully let's all of that out I would request that all of that be handled at the same time obviously that would be within your discretion and we'll be happy to answer any questions that we can. And I also have doctor Jennifer Delahaye and I'll have her go ahead and speak and to the the code that date and lest we need to address the temple live first. The. Clark has a question I'm going to go ahead let him as keys question then they will get into of. The update is that. Senator Clark thank you Mr chair and I appreciate the statement of I would have liked to have had them here to of the anyone that was specifically involved but fell in foundation this seems to be an issue that went up to some pretty high levels of my role. As far as how high levels how do you define that will attorneys for instance and and others being involved yes Sir okay so so you do have some knowledge yes I have direct knowledge of my involvement with the temple live event and I can talk about that today and I believe the turning point has a knowledge to. I'm an attorney. Okay but I'm just you're not listed here is counsel or you are she general counsel okay I'm sorry. A missed. One paying attention to you and Mister Rogers okay the what one of the Health concerns. That were not addressed. Of by temple of. This is a health emergency let me go back this is a health emergency and so we've asked people to set their business is aside their livelihood decide. And it pains all of us at every level and I know what particular pains the governor I know he he really cares about people and cared about jobs and I know this is got to bother him a great deal in this kind of all the only great deal so it's not a matter of somebody carry more than other people carry care and so it's. But it's not about dates and times it's about health number and what we have health emergency so what was the. Health concerns that they didn't address. Well look in in the context though of what was issued we were presented with the pandemic this rational Rogers directives were issued with dates. Based on secretary Smith and his team and doctor Delahaye can go forth with that so it's not taken out of context the temple line is not just one entity those dates were issued for all of those similar type of entities and so that particular date was given. A plan was submitted to be reviewed. There was back and forth between the parties. As to what precautions and everything needed to be done. But at some point we had this date that that we would have may eighteenth to be today where a similar event like temple life could start that was prior to and again we're kind of everyone's kind of in this in this euphoria because things apparently are going well Arkansas has done very well and so it's interesting we've done well with our numbers yet and everyone wants to open up things early but are. Nationals infectious disease specialists such as doctor Smith who is head of the association staying turtle help officers and his other team. Came up with the states and it's like anything else that we have a date this is the date based on their experience we I don't have and we don't have. A. The health concerns as what you want in a document the concerns for all of these things every entity all of a sudden the department of health was in charge of every business activity of in the state of Arkansas. We are first call with positive patient was March eleventh so rapidly we escalated with trying to decide. What businesses what activities. Needed to close but with the direction that Arkansas was never a shelter in place or stay at home state. The governor and the secretary of Smith decided that because our Kansas I believe we have the ability and the strength could manage this and make do on their own and we tried to keep those decisions or they needed to be but certain dates had to be instituted. Not just for one entity or business but for all of those that fits so we had elective procedures state we had date for other entities and when they could open and close so to answer your question I don't have the particular health concerns for this one particular business as a whole those businesses or entities that falls under that directed had the date of March eighteenth now we can go back now because things are rosy and said that they should know Ben we should have done it But at the time that those were instituted people were dying this was a new is that no one had face before is somewhat similar to sars and I was at the department of health and two thousand to two thousand three it's a because of the song was but it moves so fast in this so badly that we didn't know so yes Sir there were dates imposed but can I say there's a particular health concern for temple other than what was already described which they did describe that we requested that they provide indications the word a ticket buyers were not those FOR ticket buyers that doesn't necessarily mean those were the people are actually going to show up. And so doctor Delahaye may have some other concerns because she's a medical professional but that's what happened. Anyone else know opening health concerns. That one addressed. I'm Jennifer deal Hamed the medical director for immunizations and operate response and the state epidemiologist so for the large being use one of the concerns that we had was that there would be prolonged contact with people attending those Finney's because they're not just a brief encounter and we as defined close contact is being within six feet and being in that area for over fifteen minutes so one of the concerns what about the directive for the large venues was to minimize the potential for that kind of interaction as well as the interaction for a contaminated objects if food were served or other situations like that. So we put together the directive and watch the numbers and set a date for the large venues to be able to open on may fifth may eighteenth with a limit of fifty people to see how it went but we realize that there's many much larger in a venues so we broadened to that so they could use up to thirty three percent of their capacity if they would provide a plan for how they would manage and reduce the risks for transmission in that setting and so that is how we operated for at this entity as well as any other entity they were all treated the same. And so the date did you ask for a plan and they didn't present one. A plan was presented and it was acceptable from a health point of view except for that it did not meet the date that was sent to be open as I understand. Thank you. Of if I may follow up Mr chair recognized. What is interesting to me that is. Mister Rogers pointed out. Is. That you know we set the stage way ahead of time. Because we had serious things happening. Then I we respect that. But in all probably will have to have some other legislator call the governor's office starting this afternoon but You know but I know I've called on specific businesses. And got directives issued. Of. The very next day. That change dates and change the way things happen more than one time. just you know I'm not going to name the top businesses but I can and FOR for just this one senator called because it's not that people been unreasonable and said they take a look at it and said okay here's the new hires and to change and we didn't wait for date. We just said well yeah that's safe. You can will change that you can do this so but what I'm hearing here is the only problem was a date. And if I could clarify on that large you general counsel there were a few issues with the original plan and in the course of conversations over the week prior to the event they were back and forth conversations that were cordial and back and forth sharing of information and making sure they understood what was required so there were was a back and forth but I think at the end the the week of the event the date was remaining a problem and they were repeatedly told that they needed to postpone their event for safety reasons yes. But you just a but I was just. Safety reasons. Only a date reason. But as I try to explain it is a safety issue when this was first started that but not not a month before council as in the and the doctor said no safety issue and I can't see I can't see how a safety issue that particular event but we're looking at all of the events for all of that category and they're still were concerns about exempting one Group One event. Earlier than what that was Put in a directed and also we still had the issue that they did some meant what they said were the individuals who had purchased tickets there are still concerns that although you and I've been to busy and concerts and Lauren I and there's no one more pro concert I've been the everybody from Tim McGraw the George Strait ABC DC so I've been the busy in concert so it wasn't a case where a raging helps concerts or Laura hates guns or that's certainly not true and Willie Nelson on other Willis Conover under and so but we won't get into that but but it's still a II we can't in this good to go through this and we appreciate the legislative process and I think this is all very good is what I was taught at Catholic high this is part of the exercise of government is to have these questions so we fully embrace that now I don't know if I can satisfy you I I from the tone of what I had earlier I don't think I will be able to but I'm here and so but yes Sir that's our decision and you can bring me and it was my decision and it's ME. Mr you did a did you say that the conversations were cordial. Yes thank you thank you Mr chair okay. Representative house you're recognized thank you Mr chairman Practice lot of administrative law not exactly sure how things read since we did the transformation but the secretary of health has the authority to waive the provisions of any regulation does he or she not. And and again I'm the law is only been levels of thirty it depends that I have that's. To see again Representative house and it's always enjoyed working with you when you've had issues with the you wanted resolved but the yes that's of may be but we do work in concert with the state board of health and of course the governor is our ultimate boss in a course we rely with getting guidance from the attorney general's office but as a it can be waive some things can be way or like in in in this case a date could have been waived if somebody up the decision making change. Had not got a bar under their saddle set for statement the service above my pay grade I do with refund you back to the governors a news conferences I think he was very clear entails all. To the I know I can't speak to that Sir I I he's a great governor is see it is wise leadership and that's all I know thank you thank you Mr. Representative Ladyman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair thank bill Hey this you probably can answer this question The the individuals from temple live that spoke before they said that the governor said on one of his Daily News conferences that large venues would be open on may fourth. And and not the eighteenth. Now I watch those at a well not every day because I can't but I want to as many days I can't I don't remember that being mentioned was the fourth ever a date for large venues to open. No Sir. A one follow. You're recognized when when you know we're going back and forth and I understand there's a lot of back and forth on this issue because it's a big issue and I understand what you're saying cancer of the ballot this is the whole state and I understand also because a once he's Daily News conferences and and things change day today I mean things can get worse you look at the chart numbers up I'm also an engineer so I let those charts because it tells you what was going on long term you get the seven day rolling average which is a good number you get the active cases which is a number that we ought to be looking at because that's what puts pressure on the system so all of these things are changing and the doctor Smith and the rest of his team is looking at this and can't change day to day in and he could change that date but only in his group knows whether on the fifteenth that was a good idea or not I mean they're looking at data that we don't city so I understand where you're coming from there but was on this back and forth. was temple line where they continuing to plan and and move for like they were going to have this event on Friday I mean did you all have the feeling that that they still want to do that even though you had told on. The eighteenth was the date with a continuing to plan you know. Yes Sir every indication we had not heard their presentation today but every indication we had including I thought some statements they had release indicated that they were proceeding because we're trying to find that out this took a lot of effort and time from our team at the department of health that we need desperately to develop to flattening the curve and and dealing with the pandemic not to say this is important but it is you saw where the governor himself in the secretary of health. Spoke directly to Mister John Scott the attorney for temple live which is a that showed how they regard at the issue and how they wanted to try to get it resolved so every indication we had is that they were going to go for so on that premise if they were continuing to go forward you all may not be able to answer this question I was in court couldn't ask it but anyway so we're not courts of if they would have continued on and nothing had been done and they had the event on the fifteenth. Whether other options discussed. A in and how to prevent that because you think it's a health issue and you know what I mean here I'll just give you an example would state troopers arms state troopers that one and what was the other options other than doing something like this would it have been worse if another option was taken. Our student council we did have discussions with local law enforcement we have ripped relied on local law enforcement with assistance on various issues in dealing with this public health emergency since February we have issued orders of isolation and quarantine and local law enforcement has assisted us in those regards and so yes we did have discussions about what would happen if the concert did go forward and the offense that we look to is under twenty dash seven dash one a one it is a misdemeanor offense and we were looking at options and talking with local law enforcement. So cancer do you feel like this was the best option. To take rather than have armed I mean really have other options. Up we were told that the concert would be allowed to proceed there would be no citations to the participants except for Mister brown and the owner. Okay now this was not divulge to temple live because they gave a news conference that indicated that they were not going to Percy but no Sir we were not and we are not. People that are gonna be in stormtrooper outfits going around the health department has no police were very kind and gentle agency that no one knew until this all happened frankly but except if you need to a person to pick it but no Sir we are going to give a citation to the couple of the folks that were in charge in concert with a gun on. Well yeah and I hope you would never come to that but thank you very much. represent Ladyman I'm a clarify what I found what people twenty third there's a new story with the governor said he's going to re open certain businesses been shut down and may fourth was his target date to announce when he would open large venues other stories about that now to the governor credit on may fourth he announced the may eighteenth date but that's the reason may fourth said there was an announcement saying that would be reopened but on that date so it's going to clarify I think of me a nice the Mister Tosh agreed it is play time to move on to the presentation. Several of the questions most probably related to what we've been discussing all afternoon on to have a lot. A two. Make sure we get back to why you're actually here is to give us a report in regards to contact tracing privacy concerns emergency decorations and regulations on business so once you've made that presentation then if we have questions in regards to that presentation or additional of questions on any other matters within will entertain those at that time. Thank you Mr chair I'm going to pass it off to Dr Delahaye let her lead the code update. Thank you good afternoon so I have before me the information that I obtained this morning about the numbers for code nineteen for yesterday and as of yesterday we had five thousand and three cases I have since learned that this afternoon it was announced that we have an additional four hundred and fifty five cases. So that gives us five thousand four hundred and fifty eight cases total from the very beginning approximately fifteen hundred of those would be active cases at this point in time I don't have the exact numbers because I wasn't able to get those that report while I was here this afternoon. I'm. One of the major areas that were A seen cases from our from congregate living situations in Arkansas these are situations where people live in close proximity to each other mostly nursing homes or correctional facilities so of the cases that were reported today Anna two hundred and twenty nine were for correctional facilities and two hundred and twenty six work from some place in the community and some of those could I also have been nursing homes so were worse also seeing increased a cases around the state are some of our counties that border other states that have an increased number so we have higher rates and Crittenden county St Francis county and some of the counties near Memphis because they have very high code rates and then we're starting to see some increase and Union County in other areas and that has to do with close proximity also to be wheezy and. I'm we overall an just in terms the types of folks that are getting this we see a higher rate in man and I think it's because of the increased rate in the correctional facilities about sixty percent or man and about forty percent are women and most about half of the cases are among those who were Fite about forty percent or those who are black and about six and a half percent of those who have the designation of Hispanic ethnicity. In terms of the age range we do see an increase and deaths among the elderly sixty five and older but that's not the most of our cases and so about fifteen percent of people of the cases are fifteen and all of our sixty five and older and the group with the highest percentage or the young adults twenty five to forty four years of age that's about forty percent and then forty five three sixty four that's about a thirty percent a lot of folks we worry about the people who were either over sixty five or of any age who have chronic health conditions because that can increase the risk for severe disease and death as of yesterday we had a hundred and seven deaths seventy eight were among those who are sixty five and older and the others were among adults nineteen through sixty four years of age. I'm we do see high an increase service for people who are health care workers so we've had about a five hundred cases among people who work in the health care system. And and we also know that it's important to protect our workers in the health system because we need them to take care of the rest of us and so at this point in time we do have about eighty people who are hospitalized as of yesterday they were twelve new people hospitalized I don't have the numbers for today yet and there were five hundred and sixty eight people ever hospitalized And course the severity of the disease can be. Make make it necessary for someone to be on a ventilator and so as of yesterday we had sixteen people on the the ventilator many of the interventions that we take in public health to slow the spread of this pandemic this code with nineteen was to reduce the burden on the health care system so that we don't overwhelm the system and have so many patients that we don't have enough ventilators for them and we have been successful in doing that and Arkansas I'm concerned about the great at increase in number of cases for today we've had over five hundred four hundred fifty cases and one day's time yesterday the increase was eighty so part of what we need to be watching for is opening up if we do it too fast will we get into a situation where we will overwhelm the health system what can we do to slow the spread so that we can my time to Develop our test proven treatments and eventually a vaccine. I'm I'd like to say a few words about contact tracing so when ever we at. And me to say that contact tracing is a standard public health intervention the health department A received reports of various infectious diseases when we receive those reports we have a nurse or another person interview. That patient and the outbreak response section we've had three nurses that would interview the patient and they would learn about when they're infectious period was and then we would learn about where do they work. who's in their household did they go to school and so forth so we can. Determine who or their close contacts and we've been doing this for many years we do it whenever there's a month's case or hepatitis A case HIV and the idea is to like in the case of months or have a hepatitis A to offer either treatment or vaccine if it's available for that disease right now there is no proven treatment for covert nineteen and we have no vaccine so when we. identify someone who's been a close contact what we do is we ask them to quarantine for fourteen days this is the incubation period for the virus and it works to prevent the spread of the disease if they develop the illness during the incubation period then they haven't expose someone else to that virus and then they would be able to get tested and then be there if they were positive for the test then there each of their contacts would be followed three. So what we do with the health department is we interview the case we learn about their infectious period. Where they have been. they have been in close contact with and then a second person generally contacts them to get their list of people that we've asked them to develop of who their close contacts are each of those contacts is a telephone and interviewed and then we ask if they would like to be enrolled and are active monitoring system this is a database that we have for the contacts and they are enrolled in it and they receive a message from the system it's called Serra alert to ask if they have developed symptoms if they. Say yes to the sim the message it's either a phone call a text message or an email if they reply they have developed sentence in the health department takes steps to communicate with them about where to go to get testing. And then if there confirms then we start that process again it's a new case and we look for where their contacts work but if they have been quarantined then there are contacts would be almost zero and that's how we stop the transmission. I'm. I want you to know that we work closely with employers if an employee is found to have co would nineteen our goal is to keep that business open if at all possible so we work with the employer to learn when that the employee who is sick worked what were their shifts what were their days of work. Who were there round of. Were there common areas such as a lunch room or break area where they could have interacted with people and then we work also with the employers so that they can take steps to minimize the spread to other employees in the health and they're at work setting if it's a manufacturing facility we work with them to a. Either set up partitions or take steps so that employees are far enough away they would not transmit the infection if they were a symptomatic a symptomatic but didn't know they had it. One of our concerns about this disease is that people can spread it. When they don't have symptoms. So that is why we encourage people to wear a cloth face covering when they're out in public sometimes of the symptoms are mild enough they don't recognize they have it in other cases they haven't developed symptoms yet it may they may be able to spread the virus a couple of days before they actually develop symptoms and they didn't know and so they would have spread it to people that they would have been around so we encourage people to wear false a cloth face coverings particularly when out in public we're very concerned about retail in businesses because the retail workers get exposed to a whole lot of people when I go the store I'm not around very many people in the store for very long but the people who work in the stores get constant exposure to people coming through either at the check out in the business where they're at so that's why we encourage the public to wear cloth face coverings when they're out in about. I think I'll stop now and let you all ask questions and I'll do my best to answer them. Thank you Mr chairman thank you madam those great a date so push by just a tiny bit and obviously I. Can't compete with your medical knowledge and I won't even try but what I see is you say that the regulations that are being implemented specifically whenever there directives that are required before by business that they're inconsistencies between what is being done so you might have restaurants where you're required to wear a mask up to you sit down while you sit at Walmart you do not and you said a minute go you don't pass a lot of people at Walmart I don't write about pass a lot of people at the Walmart I understand some your reasoning is you're more you're there longer you're sitting down but I'm here for people over and over again that the guidelines and regulations are very in consistence between the different businesses and they're feeling resentment because it would hurt their ability to have somebody come in the restaurant and feel comfortable whenever they could go to Walmart or someplace else and not have those same requirements cause can you speak to water seems to be some inconsistencies between the different businesses especially the ones that we are mandated not asking but mandating they follow certain guidelines thank you ma'am or or the attorneys as well all right I'll I'll start so for a restaurant when a person goes in they may be there for a prolonged period of time and so we are wanting to approve in as much spread in that setting when you have close contact and as I mentioned we would define that is being within six feet for greater than fifteen minutes and so that is likely to happen in a restaurant is less likely to happen in a retail store when you pass someone in the aisle you might be within six feet of that person but not for fifteen minutes trying to rip you just briefly so is there a distinction between medically between being close to once great says people say like right now I'm close Senator Hickey forged in third time or being exposed to hundreds if not dozens of not hundreds of people individually which ones the greater risk I guess is what I'm saying. Is it more I'll pass two hundred people within our long shopping experience in the restaurant I might be around three PM for who I do not know. That's true I mean so it's not zero when you pass someone in the store A so it's a balance of what's feasible and where the greater risk is so you know I hesitate to take my face. Covering off I did for this purpose but I'm a little bit more than six feet I'm not directing my voice toward her and you might be exposing senator Hickey eight you've that I can't quite tell if that six feet so you know part of it is you know looking after each other and doing our best and I know there are people who have arrived at stores and saw that many people in the public were not wearing cloth. Face coverings and turned around and left so I think as we want people to feel safe where they go so that they'll go into the stores and they'll make their purchases and they'll go into restaurants and they'll die in there if they want if they don't feel safe and to us this was the best balance of trying to reduce the risk of exposure to at it compared to what's really feasible to enforce I think that is my question we have a lot more we'll move on thank you ma'am. Got pretty you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and thank all of you for being here today I had a quick question to follow up about what you said and about increasing cases in congregate living situations I wanted to as to you and you mentioned a little bit about what may be described as congregate working situations and factories in manufacturing plants and I also wanted to ask about multi generational homes as a potential congregate living situation so the question I guess is two fold first of all do you think the the moves made by the employers that you're working with are adequate to prevent potential spread in a concrete working situation and also for our canton to both work and live around. People that they're in a large family home at home and then it in a congregant crowded work environment are you feeling that that those situations I problematic or that the work that you and and partnerships that you've done with employers and with communities have been effective. We are really pleased that many of the manufacturing facilities poultry processing of facilities have worked really hard to reduce bread and maintain their work forces we want to decrease absenteeism and of course death among their employees so I've been really happy with the reports I have received we have a team who works with those companies when there's a case reported you know sometimes the case didn't get it at work they got it somewhere else but then they come to work so many employers have instituted person cedars A as required by one of the directives to screen their employees when they arrive at work to make sure they don't have symptoms and they don't have fever and if a employ were to develop fever then they during the day they would need to be sent home but that would at least help people not come to work sick one of the things we worry about the or people needing to work and. And not being truthful and working second that can happen but more more employers are working to and not intentionally create incentives for people to be at work when they're sick so I've been pleased with that from that guard that regard I'm with regard to congregate living situations we have a team that works with our nursing homes and we've been working with the Arkansas healthcare association that is the association for nursing homes. So that they can ed take the right steps to identify someone that they're tested and then when we see a case in a congregate sitting then we go ahead and test everyone in that setting the employees as well as the residents so we do that and nursing homes or in the prison because as I mentioned there can be lots of a symptomatic spread or spread before you the couple days before people have symptoms so we can stop a an outbreak that way and when we find someone's positive like in a nursing home then we'll put all those folks in the same wing so they're not mixing with the a nursing home residents that don't have the infection and then of course they work carefully with the workers because many of the nursing homes have worker shortages so if a person has been exposed but they are having symptoms if they where the correct protective equipment they can go to work and take care of these vulnerable older adults we always try to have them work with the if they've been exposed they work with the positive patients not the negative patients in so there's lots of strategies like that that we can use to minimize the spread and hopefully reduce the transmission and then allow that organization to serve the people they serve or the businesses like in manufacturing if there's a team and someone on the team is positive and they're sick they go home but the whole team has been exposed if that team doesn't mix with other employees and they can keep working and then they would be excluded if they had symptoms if those workers are essential workers or and some of the. Ical infrastructure workers so people who were really need to be on quarantine are still allowed to work if we put certain things in place that can help that business functioning keep going because it's really important for the businesses to be able to keep going as you have heard today there are a lot of people in Arkansas struggling and they were struggling even before this and this is just made it worse let me also say that in public health we consider what we call the social determines that of health to be very important these are the things like a low income of food in security a low educated those kinds of things that can contribute to someone's poor health we take all of those things into consideration when we make decisions regarding what we're going to do for covert nineteen it's a balance between keeping things open and measuring and being very thoughtful about what people need to do to maintain their health and well being. Other than just code nineteen it's. Thank you and I just want to express my appreciation for your partnership with both employers and buildable communities and just ask for continue diligence especially with those communities thank you yes ma'am. Representative Smith you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair thank you all for being here today my question relates to some extent to contact tracing and your explanation really Was in lightning I think in many of these cases that has to take place in order to prevent further spread and also to take care of people that potentially have propensity to Come down with covert nineteen. But at the same time I'm hearing a lot from pastors up in my area of Jones Burrel that they understand when the church is re open that they need to register all of their attendees and I'd like for you to address that and and one of the reasons that I get those questions I lived in China and also in Iraq for almost twenty years before returning to Arkansas and because of government over reach dictatorships and the communist regime even in Myanmar or Burma I noticed that some of the above ground churches or the three self patriotic movement as well as the underground house church once the government enforced registration. They later would round these people up for persecution and that that is a concern that I have and it's shared among some of the pastors and clergy up in my area that have been active overseas and on mission trips so how do we prevent that and can we really trust the repository of that information sure so You know before we had the mass then the social distancing we had a church in Arkansas that had thirty five confirmed cases in three death so the spread in churches is a real possibility and then we had an additional twenty six people in the community with connections to the people from the church and another death so that what we do in churches can really impact the entire community for any situation where you have a lot of people coming in if there's an outbreak. We would like to be able to have a good way of finding the people who would have been exposed so we have asked businesses in Turner to send others groups to keep track of who comes we don't get that information unless there's an outbreak so it's just the church keeps that and it's totally up to them what they do with that a lot of churches do take attendance anyway but it's just a way for us to. Have some kind of record that we can go to the pastor so in this church that was reported here you know he was able to come to construct a list of the ninety four people that. His church that attended the services or the events that his church had they may not be so easy sometimes or it depends on how good someone's memory or recollection is and that's strictly an aide for that in case there is an outbreak we have some way to go and say okay know who all was there and how can we find them but we don't get that information and less it's needed. Yes. You're recognized all right thank you for that a. We were in China during sars and we remember. All that transpired during that time So is it. Potentially possible for people who were exposed to sars during that. Epidemic or pandemic to have some kind of an antibody. For covert nineteen. Well we don't know that's a good question so you know sars is one of the other corona viruses and it's a whole family of viruses there's FOR corona viruses that circulate all the time in calls the common cold about thirty percent of the common cold cases. People don't develop lasting immunity to those comp those ones that cause the common cold they can get it again and we don't yet know if people will develop lasting immunity to the virus that causes code nineteen. and I'm not sure we know it about sars I haven't seen that published it might be known I haven't looked at that or whether there's cross protection could you get some protection if you had sars and then get code nineteen it might be different enough there is but we don't know that when people get Covin nineteen and they recovered obviously they have some immunity because they wouldn't have recovered but how long does the immunity last is not really known and it's being studied now okay thank you thank you Mr chair. Thank you Representative Smith. Gonzalez you're recognized thing Mr so it's my understanding that the whole purpose of the shut down from this from the beginning was to not overwhelm the healthcare system right I think I heard you mention that earlier so how many hospital beds that we have in the state. You know I don't know those numbers off the top of my head we track them and so we have a database that the hospitals report every day we know how many beds there are how many have people using them how many are vacant or potential we also track the number of beds in the intensive care units and the ventilators and how many are being used one of the limiting factors of course is the ventilators and we've been running about thirty percent full about seventy percent available so in that sense Arkansas is doing very well and that is one thing that gives us confidence that we can open up some but if we have a surgeon I don't know what this four hundred and fifty five new cases means it to over two hundred seven being in the community we'll have to carefully look at that because we don't want to back off to the degree that would and then put ourselves in the danger of having our health care system overwhelmed. So my thinking is a force that we have seventy percent available at that's ventilators and or hospital beds you walk my could we not open up a little quicker and that mean like you said you over people's help also depends on their income in and and all that as well and people are struggling right now. That terribly bad people have not been able to draw unemployment you know that were promised unemployment two months ago they need to go back to work Arkansas needs to get open back up and and let let the economy crank back up again in my opinion a whole lot quicker than what we're what we're doing and I think that you know what has been opened up has had way too many restrictions on it a restaurant owner can't operate and make a decent profit at at a third capacity that's that's not really reasonable to think that they can do that so if we have that kind of capacity in our hospitals I think it's time that we we really look at open things back up let people go to work thank you for that comment. Johnson you're recognized question. Thank you Mr chair of and Mister Rogers you know it's to the benefit everyone else Mister Rogers I have been friends for probably twenty years have the highest respect for you and growing up in a family full lawyers I don't hold any lawyer accountable for the actions of their clients I know they're representing their clients so that will apply in this case to Reggie but of my question is really all of you but doctor deal how you might be the point person to to respond on this My problem of things I've been observing today is that uh. I. Perceive and I'd like to be proven that I was incorrect that I A discriminate a discrimination or a distinction maybe I should say was made between different types of gatherings. And I guess what I'm trying to to say is I can't see the difference between the. temple live concert happening on may fifteenth and two days later on Sunday at church of approximately the same size meeting on the same day which I think happened in was churches were allowed to go back last Sunday I just don't see. The distinction and I'm trying to ask how medically and through the data that you that you and doctor Smith others health department have gathered how that distinction could be justified and maybe it's not and and maybe I'm missing something entirely but could you speak to that are any of you speak to that process. In a course I have the highest regard for you and and your parents and and fund memory I would say though that there's been a lot of discussion of well we're treating churches more leniently the then the concert but I do want to remind everyone again this was on the Governor's almost daily news conference when it happened in early April on about between April second through for that there was a church I believe is the way can church in Jonesborough were pastor there was perhaps not following what the governor and secretary Smith thought and saliva in the long with Laura the general counsel spoke to the pastor and he's very nice a wonderful man of pastor I believe Gonzalez and and so things worked out so as the idea that no we haven't talked to churches that's not accurate in all the news reports report is this but also the governor and secretary Smith as we all at this table have a high regard for of houses of worship and so I believe we have guidance to those houses of worship so we don't get involved and telling them of what to do and and unfortunately I do love concerts but I'm sorry religious observances to me is above a concert but that's just me follow up Mr chair. Of are you saying Reggie that. You you give or giving guidance to churches but you were giving. Orders or little bit stronger word may be the then then guidance to other entities because of the fact that you know regardless of the the one I mean we know that under the first amendment churches have a little bit more preferred position in the pecking order of or on that's fine I absolutely knowledge that agree with that but I'm just from a clinical standpoint of a group of people gathered together whether it's to praise god or listen to someone this not religious based setting is there a difference and if so how can you justify they still have to and then as our church the Catholic Church archbishop has gone forth with a very strong a social distancing sanitizing washing hands all the churches we're aware of as follows those kind of strict guidance is and actually of the church stop public ceremonies and masses up until last the Sunday up yes Sir I'm aware that I'm just curious if did they have to and or was that you made a sick or that you the help the proper the governor made a suggestion and these people wisely followed your guidance but again I direct your data to the governor statements as I recall I I'm bills I'm not part of the governor's staff of the immediate staff but his the press conferences and guidance indicate that he did regard churches is needing only got okay so there was never any threat or anything of it up you don't do this we're going closure church day I'm not saying you would I'm fish that was never even intimated is actor at no Sir we've never I've never heard that. Doctor bill Hey do you have any further than that on that. Well the times that we provided to the churches is similar to the requirements for that Large indoor venues and so it's that difference churches purses other organizations for indoor venues but my concern is of course a medical doctors spread in either one and it is going to be very important for any group no matter whether they're open or not and to continue with the things we've been saying the hand washing the social distancing the facemask because the more open we get the increase in risk of spreads going to be very real and it's not going to go away cove it nineteen is here to stay. So we have got to take on these changes if we're going to open and stay open and is up to the governor for whether it's a guidance or a directive from just to be clear we have received complaints against churches we did contact those pastors and they did. Everyone complied or it's a did what we we're trying to get them to state and that even includes my own church. Mister chairman I'm we should have this situation our officials are and what they're trying to do I'm just simply trying to ascertain Clinically. If the absolute clinical sense is there any difference between a gathering of of two hundred fifty people in a concert for a couple hours versus our hour and a half in the in a church I don't think there is but I'm still trying to see what you would make a distinction between those two gatherings first amendment issues not withstanding thank you very much Mister thank you all very much thank you senator. Representative Dotson you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair Fortunately several my questions unanswered is as we've been sent here listen to this but as I've kind of been going through Listen what you've been saying and going through just various numbers and things what I want to kind of find out is You know we we've had almost fifty five hundred cases positive cases in the state out of just under a hundred thousand tests so far so it it's a very low percentage of positivity rate out of the total tests that are done in of course those numbers are ramping up because more and more tests are being done on daily basis we've been we've been increasing dramatically those those test but so far out of three million people in the state less than two tenths of one percent of our Kansans have ever tested positive. And. Court in my calculations currently active cases. We have five one hundredths of one percent of our Kansans Are are currently active cases and so You know that does not see I mean if if this was a I just pulled up the department of health's statistics on on total number of deaths for twenty seventeen as last year that you have available on your website at. This if you analyze the number of deaths that Covin nineteen is had it would even make the top ten in the number of deaths as far as the top top fifteen sorry as the causes of death and so. I struggle with what is the public health emergency and crisis that we're currently facing in light of all those in from all of that information we obviously have a large scared the governor depends very strongly on your recommendations and as the public health or entity in the state dot you and doctor Smith on your on your recommendations on what we should do going forward And I understand recognize there's a lot of of fear based. caution the word we're taking we don't know there's a lot of unknowns but of what we do know to date. There doesn't seem to be near the at. Made there's a tremendous amount of of data now available to us that wasn't available to us two months ago and right now am I I guess the question boils down to. What is the justification for continued state of emergency that were under could we. Could we pull back on the state wide state emergency and focus on localized pockets of of outbreak today. I'm not. Two weeks from now six weeks from now three years from now when there may or may not be a vaccine but right now today open Arkansas back up and specifically focus on localized areas of concern hot spots if you will. And and and then I'll let you answer that and I've got to follow up with them and. Alright thank you for the questions so this virus that causes code nineteen is very contagious it doesn't take a whole lot of exposure for people to catch it. And people can spread it a symptomatically so it's going to be very hard to focus on hot spots because if you do that then you're always working from behind you're playing catch up for spread that has already taken place and at can continue to spread before it's realized so and at a strategy of that sorts gonna have to involve the whole state of course were we know that we have an increased number of cases we want to focus their but if we don't in this sense of maintain diligence over the whole state we'll just be a be like whack a mole will be working after hot spot hot spot till pretty soon the whole state will be hot spot is just so contagious so I don't think we're at that point yet I'm we will be able to do. A better the two keys to. Bringing the Kobe nineteen under control if you can say that will be a testing and we're doing better with our testing making it available and easily and conveniently available to people whenever they need it so that for example we could screen everybody in the business so to speak so that they could we could find a symptomatic spread if it was there or we could screen everybody in a nursing home right now we screen everybody wants that cases found but we would like to be able to screen everybody so that the nursing homes where there are cases starting but we don't know yet then we can stop it in its track and then we would have to decide how often we would need to screen so to open up the whole state we would need to be able to do that kind of quick testing and screening in order to find the cases to isolate them and then do the. Diligent contact tracing to stop that spread otherwise we won't be able to get out in front of it well all these trying to catch it from behind and so the other thing is we would really like to know and we hope we can find out in the near future whether people develop lasting immunity right now there are antibody tests available around the state but the antibody tests that are currently available are not reliable. We cannot be sure whether it's really testing for antibodies to the covert nineteen virus or the corona viruses that cause the common cold so we don't use those tests to make a diagnosis at this point in time plus when you do an antibody test it takes maybe three weeks before they become positives you can't use that test to determine whether someone has it acutely whether they'd just gotten it so we really do rely on the other tests the PCR tests to test people to see if they have it right now before they develop symptoms are not. If we can do that then we will be able to open up more quickly and faster and maybe even get to the point where we can. Not have restrictions at all but we're not there yet the other thing I would like to see before we open up. Greatly would be approving treatment we really don't have a proven treatment for it yet and there are some trial there's. Trials being test there's tested we've called clinical trials for treatments that are available and that could potentially be available we had back then a it would be much safer to open up as widely as we can so if it if I may Mister follow up what I'm here you can you say is that you're never going to be comfortable with this opening up fully until there's some sort of a proven vaccine that will be able to be administered to whoever wants it. A I'm not sure that a vaccine is going to be needed that would be the ideal if we had a vaccine that works but that is a long way away probably a year or year and a half right so the key for us to be open widely is going to be testing and very good contact tracing plus approving treatment like a medication that someone can take if they get the virus that would of diminish their symptoms reduce the severity of illness and help them survive it I guess the question though is is what is additional testing really going to do other than help us to identify where it's at and to try to notify people in an area to be more cautious and more careful testing is always after the fact in fact you kind of leads me to the the other question I was actually gonna ask and you brought it up regarding a symptomatic a lot of people are a symptomatically they don't even know they had it So what percentage of the positives are I never have any symptoms at all in the a fully recover and then secondarily what percentage of those who who actually are we have attributed death due to covert nineteen have other underlying health conditions we have a hundred ten in the state of Arkansas that if have passed away and fortunately but of those did they have other underlying health conditions or was cove in nineteen the only thing that caused their death. So and in terms of the percent of people who have no symptoms we don't have a number for that yet and we won't until we have an antibody tests that can tell us that somebody has had the disease so if someone has no symptoms and they don't get tested we won't know that they've had it or they have it and are spreading it unless they spread it to someone who does develop symptoms and then we get a test and that person is positive then we find out who they got it from by often times by the contact tracing and then we trace back to where that person would have been and that's an important part of a diminishing the spread is to find out you know where did they get it from how can they how were they exposed and so forth to it would if it was in a situation where it was work maybe there's more cases in the work or if it was in a church there might be more cases and then we could find an. At the cluster or the outbreak in that way and we would be able to diminish that so what we would really like in Arkansas is to be able to have enough tests so that anybody who wants a test can get a test we're getting closer and then enough tasting capability that we can screen groups of people who are at increased risk for severe disease such as a work site or S. school or that's in a congregate living situation like a dormitory or a nursing home or some other setting where if there was spread it would be very detrimental because it's all a revise right close together we have that in some communities you know if lot of dense housing right there then that would be really good to be able to have those tests readily available to people. And then of those that had other underlying health conditions yes. So that's how many illnesses work the Borrel people are going to be as we get older our immune systems Wayne so we don't fight off infections as well even if we're perfectly healthy. So that's one of the groups of concern for and people with COPD nineteen and then there are people who have underlying health conditions like diabetes or high blood pressure or heart disease or others that. Ordinarily they would have been fine but they got cope with nineteen in the combination of all that was too much so that is a group of of additional concern for us is anybody in that situation because you know if people. And. A have these health conditions and they can manage them and continue to be productive members of the work force or the legislature or the society then you we would like them to be able to do that. As I guess at a different way to ask the question B. what percentage did not have any underlying health conditions and solely. let me come to. Here yeah let's give a number then move on nothing at so the number that I have. Would be about twenty five percent. So yes so thank you Mr okay. I'm sorry. I'm and may have been the other way around twenty five percent had some con under line either one or two or more comorbidities that's what we have. So it's seventy five percent did not. Okay thank you doctor. Was read but still several several questions Lynch was made direct with the question and try to limit the number of follow ups to at least one and if we could be a little briefer whether insurers metal you got a lot of wealth of information to share we appreciate it but we are kind of getting late and they did so we'll move forward with the with those guidelines I would appreciate it and Representative Scott you're recognized for a question. Can you hear me OK more so can I just make a comment to the committee. Is that okay yes go ahead I will be very brief okay you know I know this is new we're currently at a hundred and seven deaths is that right. That is correct amount of yesterday And I know that's a small number when we think about the state but there are Kansas and their family they have families and I know some of these families who lost members to cove it and so you know I don't know the answer as far as opening up the state but this is just the beginning of us trying to figure this out and I don't want us to forget the lives there you know people they're passing every day in the midst of this and I. I'm a freshman I don't have all the answers my family owns a small business so I understand the struggles of you know what's happening to the economy I know it's very new you know I know we're just now starting to see the longevity impact that this is going to have to Arkansas but I don't want us to forget the families I think that directives are important I think the dates are important and I think we should be support up as a body as that step is rolled out by the Arkansas department of health and I just wanted to say that that you know these are families and I don't know if any of you know families that have passed away to Kobe but them not being able to be in the hospital with their family members and having small you know funerals like that's a lot for families to deal with right now and so I just want us to remember the our kids is that that we're losing every day to this in the midst of us trying to figure out a solution. Representative got up to that to that comment. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized for a question. You Mr chair of this question I don't really know that any of your would be able to answer it How will he be quick with an ask it anyway it's my understanding the yacht that the health department is requiring nurses to work on Saturdays impossible overtime without overtime pay I'm getting some messages on that is the. What a Speaker that. You mean health department nurses or do you mean yes health department in the alley. We're getting our deputy director to speak Renee Mallory. Thank you Rene Mallory deputy director we all are those nurses are we did have them working overtime at first we're trying nail that they're working five days a week I may be working weekends but then I get off during the week. So you don't have a situation where the working over forty hours we can there not being paid overtime. There could be some that are working over forty hours a week yes Sir but they are they're exempt employees so light like. Those of us that are exempt we can work forty over forty hours a week but we don't necessarily get overtime so your nurses are exempt employees yes Sir. Okay thank you. Representative Payton you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair of doctor delay. I noticed you're nobody immunologist and There's something that's been concerning me the since the beginning of April that you've touched on two or three times and so I want to ask you some questions here. If if we don't know how long the immunity last after you after you get over a case of covert nineteen. And it could be very short if we don't know we don't know. so I've got two questions not knowing that well let's just let's just put it this way if a munity turns out to be very short sixty or ninety days. Is a vaccine even feasible and is flattening the curve the wrong thing to do. If a community is very short. Because letting the carvings we keep. We keep it beyond were the first people infected insured would be losing their immunity while we're still fighting epidemic. So there have been cases where Vaccines are better than the actual immunity so it depends on the vaccine and there's a number of different types of vaccine being developed so hopefully one of them will develop lasting immunity it's possible since Kobe nineteenth here to stay that it would be necessary to get one more than one dose you know like a flu vaccine we need one every year because their immunity to it wanes so it's possible that it would be something that would need to be given Periodically. I didn't quite understand of the second part because if people can get it more than once then what you would want to do would be minimize the spread which is kind of the same thing is a flattening the curve. The but the idea right now is to flatten the curve to will to give us a chance to learn more about it and develop more effective strategies so at least at this point in time planning the curve is I think what we're going to need to do in order to learn about the disease develop effective treatments and hopefully have a vaccine one day so if I could have a follow up Mr you're recognized so. I mean I really agree with banner self enough time to study it and to learn it and and that's why didn't become concerned with this until April is because I felt like you know getting the medical profession ready to handle the the the. Overwhelming amount of patients that they could have had. But in my mind in the in this just comes for math I'm not a doctor but I I've always loved math but if immunity is short. Then the only way to ever. Starve out the virus would be to let it spike and have that herd immunity within the window that the immunity last. U. zero Sam yes unfortunately We don't. Know what level would be needed for herd immunity and heard immunity depends on lasting immunity so If everyone got this at the same time we would have spikes of people becoming immune temporarily and then valleys and then more spikes in the more valleys it would just repeat it wouldn't be something that would be sustainable okay thank you thank you Mr chair. Representation. Thank you and now I'll turn be quick so I'd love the talk of testing and I think as policy makers what all of us want to do is get the economy Rev back up as quickly as possible but also do it safely so it seems to me that testing Kongregate working areas like everybody who goes into certain plant would be helpful to building confidence for the workers to return with the governor's talked about testing nursing home residents all at once what can we do as policy makers do we need more money to any more machines we talked about this in the care steering committee what can we do to ramp that testing up to a level that builds confidence and work places in the public and how quick can we do that. Well I have a couple of things in terms of priorities in I haven't been deeply involved in the finance piece of this but I think you are correct this building the testing capacity with high throughput image of testing machines the at the health department and other health care entities around the state's going to be important I think the ability to have the contact tracing because when someone's positive you still need the nurse to go and interview them and learn about their contacts and then you need to contact tracers to follow up and do it in a way that's going to be efficient and effective so at that would We will need the. Capacity to do that in Arkansas so funding to support the health department's initiatives to do that I think would be very well placed do we know how many testing kits testing machines that we need to be able to go to work places to all these different content areas and test people quickly do we do we have those figures I know that testing plans have being developed I'm not right in the middle of that so I don't want to say anything right now but we would be really glad to share what we know with you will can follow up alright thank you thank you Mr. Thank you senator Representative Sullivan you have a question. Thank you Mr chair of the administration is demonstrated they're willing to take punitive action and we are getting ready to test all the people in nursing homes and other residential so if we if people decide they don't want to be tested what will we be withholding state funds Medicaid funds and such for people who refuse. I haven't heard any discussion about that I don't believe so amend with the the administration has demonstrated does a did with ABC they're willing to take punitive action with people who don't comply with their orders so we're going to order testing for all the nursing home people and we likely will be at people who on various grounds refused to be tested so are we going to take punitive action by such as withholding Medicaid funds or other state services. When. Sir thank you and and also we have issued no fines against any business entity church or person and the state of Arkansas. In this matter we've issued to official cease and desist orders one was against temple life as we've discussed the other was against little rock family planning services thank you thank you Mr chair. Representative Ladyman you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. so that bill Hey we of. As I understand it to get back open get everything opening going in our economy back up there's three phases were in phase one and the governor said the other day that all businesses are now able to be opened with restrictions which is phase one. and and so then face to face three it would be where people could visit long term care facilities like you can't do that now no one can go see their grandparents in a nursing home you can't go thew McCollum centers and so forth so that's phase three understand these two I assume would be opening up. Esther's two hundred percent I'm not sure what that definition is but. What is that definition and you know. What what data points are we looking at to say Hey we can go to phase two so so restaurants can be open all the time hundred percent capacity you know what is phase two and one of those data points says Hey we're there we're allowed to do these things did you know can you answer that. Well my understanding is the governor's following the opening up America again guidelines which is As we've met most of them but it's this is fourteen days of sustained decrease in the number of cases or the percent positive cases and a little bit concerned about that because we had a big spike of cases today that were reported so I can't really speak very well to that right now one follow up Mr. US so when you talk about the number of positive cases when you do more testing number people mention this when you do more testing you're going to have more positive cases even if you're percentages the same so that's not really a good indicator right the so the percentages is a much better indicator percentage of pasta cases. so if you do you know twice as many you will have twice as many positives yes and so is that is that a number that we're looking at more than the total number of cases yes. So and and then of another number that would be good for us to look at and Arkansas is our number of hospitalizations and that's when training on is in the I don't know after today what that will be like but that is a measure that we could look at because that will give us a gauge of the number of severe cases around the state okay thank you. Senator Clark. Thank you Mr chair of pet a number of questions and but you raise more the. The of hope you will check your numbers on the underlying conditions you know because I love science but I know New York state I don't know now but I know there for six thousand AS it was seventy five percent had underlying conditions not twenty five percent okay I was talking about the number of cases not the number of deaths in this situation. Okay I thought we're talking about this I'm sorry if I did I don't I may have misspoken the of but I know in New York state FOR six thousand seventy five percent of the. This had underlying causes and that it was six specially true. Was way higher than that if you were under forty five if you are under eighteen the there were only three deaths and they were all underlying conditions the it was the eighty percent at the high eighties if you were under forty five and then there were very few people in fact well of the more important question here are. I heard you use hope and it's possible. Your best educated guess for a proven treatment. You said before we open up you want to see approving treatment what your best educated guess for one will see approving treatment. I believe we will have one I think there are some very promising a treatment trials are studies going on right now and I would think within the next year we would know. So it could be here. Twelve months it could be it could be less it depends okay so twelve months before we open up could be a year that alarms me. Because. I will keep people safe but also don't want to start yes well I'm not sure about yes of. Nope Pennsylvania the awful Sweden very closely we don't have time to go into that I don't know if you fold over close or not not full Sweden very closely who is going for her community and has not had shut downs of. The but Pennsylvania Senate percent of their deaths of the nursing homes. And they had very taught shut downs and it and it appears to me and you can answer this is a question from studying the statistics. Across the country that if you're under fifty and healthy. You have way more chance of done in a car wreck. Then you do a dying from call of ours average age of death is about Senate five here and it is a lot of places. The. So. Pennsylvania not have been better off to kept the people working. Heirs and spent that money. That is that the. Hundreds of millions of dollars that the economy stopped with to protect those very vulnerable people that instead they what dot. I don't have an answer for that I do not have not followed Pennsylvania that closely but I think that the most important thing for us to do is to protect our state and the people. And even though someone who's fifty may not die of covert nineteen they can still spread it to people who would and that is of concern to us but that was my point if the but New York. Huge so. Percentage of the desk for nursing homes where the governor spall sees word this to make them take people who were positive in a if you point out how contagious it is sixty percent the best and Hollowell or nursing home seventy percent in Pennsylvania and so the shut down didn't protect those people protecting those people and but inst but it is keeping them from working and earning a living and so does it. Could there not be a better way of addressing it and looks at it in which case we could go to Sweden. not literally go there but but look at at what they're doing of the we're their results are not much worse than ours and certainly better than Italy's in France and Belgium is in the U. K. yeah yeah A I believe secretary Smith may have address your concerns the other day if not yesterday in his news conference that he sees us as moving away from these directives and guidance is and that our citizens and we have total faith in our Kansans or strong enough and smart enough that he is a term internalize these kind of protection so what I understood him to say was that we are in this we're trying to get going to move away from these directives and guidance is leave it in the Power of the people and that's what we're trying to get to and he's trying to do this as the governor said in a measured approach so I think we're on the same track it's just a matter of how fast can we achieve this and we all want to achieve it. As fast as we can but then we just heard which we were. In here the news conference today and I don't we don't know what the four hundred or more increases about so that that's the bump and wrote I think Senator Clark we can follow up please we got Senator hammer I think we will be about that time. Good. Yes this one thing and also up. The. My concern was that the governor keeps saying he's lost interest experts and I heard the experts say before we open up we should have a proven treatment and the proven treatment could be a year and so I hope. That we continue to open up. I realized that I I have said all land a little bit about science not being a doctor but no local about science that as we opened up we should expect to see more the virus whether it be in June or whether it be in November of that shouldn't be surprising us but but that the one thing we can be sure of is we continue stay home with starvation but thank you. Senator hammer. You're recognized thank you Mr chair and what I would like to maybe picking up on Senator Clark what he was talking about. The the governor depends heavily upon you and and first of all thank you because I know you all put in way more time the expect to be put in during this time so appreciate very much for that. However the governor leans heavily upon you as the health department I think in order to formulate the direction these trying to take a stand and reach a point to where we can open up and I know we've got to Washington plan I know we have phase one two and three. Do you have a on paper plan so that we could as representing Ladyman was mention log or somebody was about the data points that we could just basically check off so that when we get there because what I could see happening is a continuation of emergency after emergency after emergency if we don't have something in in stone that we can reach so the can use just speak to that. we have not developed a detailed plan what we have been doing is following the information provided or that the framework provided by opening up America again and then addressing the situation in Arkansas so Arkansas has not had a shut down like Pennsylvania or New York has had in so in some ways were we've started out ahead of those states so we're having to adjust that plan for Arkansas because we didn't start from a complete shut down so what we would like to do is continue to open up as quickly as we can but at the same time opening up safely and opening up safely is going to mean developing the testing and the contact tracing and working to find a proven treatment if we can in the time frame needed but it's going to be important for us as a state to all get used to the idea that Covin nineteen is here to stay and we're gonna need to modify what we do on a day to day basis and. Finding that way and what we're going to do is not something that's predetermined I mean we're still going to have to find ways to make sure that our employees stay safe there are some things we know already there's things will continue to learn and wearing masks is going to need to be a part of our culture for awhile and those are hard things to do that's the culture change follow Mr. All right thank you and and you all were real good to work when some of this work with you regarding the venues and you all came down with the fifty you know rule and then the disparities were pointed out of and yeah and you all were good work on that I'm I'm just curious on the six foot rule. You've you've got a you've got a building big enough that if you maintain the six foot rule you could actually have greater than thirty three percent capacity but thirty three percent somebody came up with that idea somewhere and and it seems like maybe there's a disconnect that if you want to maintain six foot and you've got a building that could accommodate five hundred people why you're able to do six foot but yet there's at thirty three percent cap. You speak about that but my real question using that as an illustration is who are the decision makers that are coming up with what. Is being imposed upon the private sector as far as some of these things because in the discussion with the venues it was like old we understand now and I'm just wondering who are the decision makers. That are involving the real world out there as far as to businesses in the restaurants so that we're hearing it from them. To anyone a bill. The directives are and initiated by the physicians pandemic group and often we engage with the stake holders and the economic recovery group has also weighed in on a lot of the directives making sure that the businesses have some say so and have some input as to the specific directives in the specific Vinnie's I would just say there seems to be a real disconnect because when you got the dentist and got the venues and the others. You know. There there just seems to be a disconnect from from reality in the real world and I appreciate which all doing you're not turned if you do and darned if you don't situation I acknowledge that but moving forward if we don't have a definite time as to when we can say okay we're gonna be out from underneath this because the goal keeps moving the goal post keeps moving there really needs to be some improvement in that area so that our businesses can get open back up thank you. I just want to add that we are we are always open to work with everyone and we are always talking stakeholders on a regular basis. Two final questions senator Ballenger you still have questions or. Thank you Mr chair in in other people so this by just one echo it I really appreciate you guys showing up answer questions in spending you know basically most today here so thank you all for being here one thing that I I have a specific question about on on the issue of wearing masks to restaurants and then pull the mask off like of all the things that I hear people you know social media or people reaching out to me that's the one thing the people are are are griping about and and it's also difficult the me tell you two reasons why or why it's difficult for me is one is the logic behind it right if you if you wear your mask and then you can immediately take your mask off may not how much you really really mitigating lane and that's really what we're doing and then the second issue release more primaries is one of the few areas and everything that we're doing where we're actually now regulating the patron to some extent the the individual citizen instead of telling the business these are the things you have to do we're saying now individual person now I realize it's only the business getting find the we are telling the individual person that they have no choice now in all the if the business wants to say you know you don't come in here was shorn amassed I think that's the right to do that but I think from a state perspective that's one issue the kind of gets under my crawl more than probably any of the other issues is here were regulating this individual person and and I really think the law the logic I think the bang for the Buck that you get out of it is not enough to make it where it's worthwhile does that make sense to you. Okay thank you. Thank you a delay of Senator Clark Dr good point about like Pennsylvania in another state that seventy percent of their cases were in nursing homes and I understand we're different and we did not shut and we were one of five states that the governor's did not have a stay at home order which I think that was the right decision and I appreciate the governor doing that but my question is at what is our number eight what percentage of cases are in nursing homes and prisons to me it seems like that's a very large number so a small percentage in the community he what is that number. Let me see if I have that with me. The range of sixty five to him percent seventy percent almost. I have numbers but I don't have the actual percentages so what will be happy to get that for you would you get that number and get it back to Representative Ladyman or. I have here will get it to any appreciate that and you know if if that's a real line number should that be one the numbers that we're looking at we're talking about opening back up thank you. Okay one final question Representative got pretty you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair just very briefly I've been getting a lot of questions from teachers and schools are you all working with the department of education and desi to help them create their guidance for opening schools back up in the fall. So my understanding is that the I think it's called the department education now that the under the gum is working on those and we're giving input and they're also working with the a stakeholders group what is that one called. The okay so there are plans in. Being developed now and they're working but it's through the department of it so you're you're not collaborating closely with them. I have not personally but we do have staff at the health department that are working with them great thank you. Committee members thank you know it's been a long day and I appreciate your patience appreciate you senator garner you have a comment to make yeah very briefly first department health we really appreciate your showing up menu broader team here and two of my don't think even got to answer question Renee beta brief appearance thank you Matt thank you to the other doctor that's greatly appreciate it secondly just case you wanted this committed any good today Tatum the young woman who came and spoke to us get our first check today so maybe some I was watching actually paid attention okay thank you are moving adjourned. By Representative Tosh years ago I knew someone that your dad worked for the state police.