Education Committee - Senate
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Bills discussed (11)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
|
SB352
Act 721
· 6 mentions in agenda, transcript, chapter
Matched: “…TING IN CERTAIN ACTIVITIES WITH A PROHIBITED FOREIGN PARTY. SB352 Stone TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN PUBLIC ELEMENTARY AND SEC…”
|
TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN PUBLIC ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS; AND TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN STATE-SUPPORTED … | Stone | Notification that SB352 is now Act 721 |
|
SB303
Act 644
· 3 mentions in transcript, agenda, chapter
Matched: “…, you passed your bill. OK, let me see. Next, Senator Dees. Senate Bill 303. Is he here? The He's upstairs. OK. Then let me see, we wil…”
|
TO ALLOW A RESIDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT TO PERMIT A PRIVATE SCHOOL STUDENT TO PARTICIPATE IN … | Dees | Notification that SB303 is now Act 644 |
|
SB317
Act 351
· 3 mentions in agenda, transcript, chapter
Matched: “…Y AT THE RESIDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS. SB317 B. Johnson TO PROHIBIT AN INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION F…”
|
TO PROHIBIT AN INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION FROM PARTICIPATING IN CERTAIN ACTIVITIES WITH A PROHIBITED … | B. Johnson | Notification that SB317 is now Act 351 |
|
SB183
Act 724
· 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “SB183 J. Dotson TO AMEND THE UNIVERSAL ACT ASSESSMENT PROGRAM ACT…”
|
TO AMEND THE UNIVERSAL ACT ASSESSMENT PROGRAM ACT; AND TO AMEND THE TYPES OF ASSESSMENTS … | J. Dotson | Notification that SB183 is now Act 724 |
|
SB358
· 2 mentions in agenda, chapter
Matched: “AGENDA (Revised 3/3/25 @ 4:15 PM) Added SB358 to Regular Agenda Senate Committee on Education Wednesday,…”
|
TO AMEND VARIOUS LAWS RELATED TO HIGHER EDUCATION. | J. Dotson | Sine Die adjournment |
|
HB1180
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…ICE ACT; AND TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL CHOICE ACT OF 2015. HB1180 Bentley TO CREATE THE BABY OLIVIA ACT. SB183 J. Dotson TO A…”
|
TO CREATE THE BABY OLIVIA ACT. | Bentley | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SB149
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…LOYMENT TAX ACT TO WAIVE THE "REASONABLE ASSURANCE" CLAUSE. SB149 J. English TO AMEND PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING AMOUNTS UNDER THE…”
|
TO AMEND PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING AMOUNTS UNDER THE PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING ACT OF 2003. | J. English | Died in House at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SB205
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…avis Sen. Jim Dotson REGULAR AGENDA Number Sponsor Subtitle SB205 A. Clark TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS OPPORTUNITY PUBLIC SCHOOL CH…”
|
TO AMEND THE ARKANSAS OPPORTUNITY PUBLIC SCHOOL CHOICE ACT; AND TO AMEND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL … | A. Clark | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SB215
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…UNDING AMOUNTS UNDER THE PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING ACT OF 2003. SB215 J. Bryant TO AMEND THE PERMISSIBLE USES FOR REAL ESTATE DON…”
|
TO AMEND THE PERMISSIBLE USES FOR REAL ESTATE DONATED BY A PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT; AND … | J. Bryant | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SB266
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…RT CARD TO INCLUDE A STUDENT'S CURRENT READING GRADE LEVEL. SB266 J. Dotson TO AUTHORIZE A PUBLIC SCHOOL TO ADOPT A POLICY FO…”
|
TO AUTHORIZE A PUBLIC SCHOOL TO ADOPT A POLICY FOR ONE OR MORE STUDENT MENTORS. | J. Dotson | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
|
SCR3
· 1 mention in agenda
Matched: “…TO HIGHER EDUCATION. DEFERRED BILLS Number Sponsor Subtitle SCR3 J. Scott TO URGE THE ARKANSAS CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION TO P…”
|
TO URGE THE ARKANSAS CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION TO PROPOSE AN AMENDMENT TO THE FEDERAL UNEMPLOYMENT TAX … | J. Scott | Died in Senate Committee at Sine Die adjournment. |
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- October 2, 2026
Senator Jane English
Unverified
0:08
have you all here. First thing I'd like to do this morning is recognize our pages who are here. You'd stand when I call your name. I appreciate it. Connor Henry. Are you there? Oh, OK. Thank you. Um, Day Rogers. Sylvanna Burgess. Channing Ashworth. Sullivan Schafer.
Christian Trombly. Caitlin Cooper. And Lincoln Clark. Thank you all so much for being here. We appreciate it. This is all about you. All we do in here is about you. Very good. OK, moving right along, so first, yes. Forage leadership. Very good. We're glad to have you here. You
all do some wonderful things and and I I
see follow you a lot and you do some great things, so
congratulations. First on the agenda, I'd like to call on Senator Stone for a Senate Bill 352, you'd take place at the end of the table, please. And I think, do we have an amendment? No. You'd identify yourself.
Senator Matt Stone
Unverified
1:46
You just push that button. It takes a minute. It takes a minute. There you go. There
we go. I'm Matt Stone. I'm state senator District 2. Members, um, anti-Semitism is still alive and well in our country. All we have to do is just look at the evening news, the evening news to see that that's so. Anti-Semitism is when people of other races are hostile towards the Jewish people. They are intentionally harassed,
physically harmed, verbally abused, hit, kicked, spit on, and sometimes killed to intimidate the Jewish people. Members and anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism is not new. It started about 3400 years ago when they were enslaved in Egypt. After they came out of slavery, they had their own country that was overrun by Rome. And then in '70 AD they were early decimated and driven from the country except just for a remnant.
At the hand of Adolf Hitler, 6 million Jews were killed during World War II. When the Jewish people re-established themselves as a country on May 14th, 1948, they were attacked within 24 hours by their neighboring countries. Then again in 1967 during the Six Day War, they were attacked. 1973 in the Yom Kippur War, they were attacked. And then most recently on October the 23rd, excuse me, October 7th of 2023, they were
attacked again. You know, these events have fueled anti-Semitism in the United States and in Arkansas. This past Christmas Eve, I attended a Hanukkah celebration here in Little Rock. There was an outside public event that was almost brought her to submission by protesters. They were protesting simply because they were Jewish people. I've seen people protest recently on our state capitol. Why? Because they're against the Jewish people and the nation of Israel simply fosters an environment
where Jewish students. come and get an education in Arkansas without being subjected to harassment. It establishes that those in authority when they see Harassment, hear of it. Or know of it that they take the appropriate measures to put a stop to it. Madam Chair, if you would just allow me to read just a couple of statistics. Right quick says in April, this is in the bill. This is um in April 2024, the director of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation found that the number of Federal Bureau investigations into anti anti-Semitic hate crimes tripled in the months after October 7th, 2023. According to a recent Gallup poll, 81% of Americas now see anti-Semitism as either a very serious or somewhat serious problem up from 57% 2 decades ago. Acts of anti-Semitism on kindergarten through grade 12
school campuses undermined the educational and social fabric of our educational institution. I, I, I'm open out chair. I'm open to any questions that
Senator Jane English
Unverified
4:58
members may have. So there are questions
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
5:04
from the committee, Senator Dotson. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Uh, Senator Stone I just saw this bill yesterday and then trying to get through a review of it with, as you know, I
Ran the anti-Semitism definition legislation two years ago. The IRA definition that's been put into law and just going through this particular draft here, um. have found several things that could be
cleaned up, um. Uh, if you go to. see. Page. Page 2. Um
First couple of things on line 2 and line 4, there's I
think it should say anti-Semitism instead of anti-Semitic. That is correct. so that's, that's more of a typo change that probably needs to be updated, but at the bottom of that, Uh, that in the first section there on line 12 of the bill, um. I would Suggests that we, we. Add something that says
something along the lines of in the same manner as they would address and prohibit any other forms
Senator Matt Stone
Unverified
6:34
of discrimination prohibited by law, um. Uh, Senator Johnson, I believe that's addressed on page 4. Uh, line 34, nothing in this act shall be construed to conflict with federal or state discrimination laws. We're not diminishing, taking away from anything else that's already established in law. We're just
establishing that across the country we repeatedly see how the Jewish people are treated and even treated in our universities and public schools, we just want to be proactive in the state. That if something happens, there's a mechanism in place to deal with it.
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
7:10
And so that, that's really in the legislative findings, so that that doesn't necessarily affect the statute itself as much, but as we're going down through, I'm just trying to go through the notes that I've got at this point in time, um, uh.
Because this is Kind of Adding a special treatment. Um Let's see, on. Which page is this? Page
3. think. Under item C. One where it says incorporate
anti-Semitism. um, you're on page 3 what line? Page 3 line. Line 3, or line. 6 In the bill. It was recommended that we add something along lines for that line to uh incorporate anti-Semitism um into any required anti-bias awareness training for all. And make it more inclusive of all of the
All of the anti-bias type policy training, not just exclusively on its own
Senator Matt Stone
Unverified
8:33
in the purpose of that sentence is, is to bring the Jewish people up to parody to the standard that other protected classes you move your microphone over in
Senator Jane English
Unverified
8:42
front of you a little bit more and I
Senator Matt Stone
Unverified
8:45
think the purpose of that statement is is to move the Jewish people up, students up to parity with the other protected classes right now just to bring it to the forefront that historically the Jewish people. have been mistreated and maligned.
Speaker 38
8:59
Well, once again I'm not suggesting it bring it to
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
9:06
not necessarily make it an enhanced focus, but make it parity so you're We shouldn't have discrimination for anyone regardless of whether or not it's they're Jewish or some other type of discriminatory. Class that that so I'm, I'm kind
of concerned as we're going through and uh. Saying that we're not going to have uh Uh, exclusionary policies in our higher ed that this is adding that in. As a specific exclusionary policy. Instead of making it a broad-based thing, but I'll move on to the to uh uh. This title 6 coordinator, that you're having the bill, it says
it should deliver an annual report, um. It should be on all discrimination, not just on anti-Semitism, but including anti-Semitism, so adding that in there would be the suggested. Edit to this particular part of the bill. Anyway, I've, I've got a number of these things throughout the entire bill and I support the concept.
But at this moment in time I can't support the bill as drafted. So, and I'd love to get with you offline and give you some of these suggested changes and edits to actually clean this up and make it better, but at this moment in time, uh, I can't support the bill as is, so thank you. So. Yeah
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
11:01
I'm gonna pick up where Senator Dodson left off, so Senate Bill
3 now Acts 116. Uh, specifically says it will offer no one preferential treatment, and everyone will be treated the same essentially the point that Senator Dodson was making that if we're going to have legislation that says we're not going to discriminate against one group that training ought to be we're not going to discriminate against any groups, and I think this exclusive the way it's written is exclusive to one group that we're going to
give preferential treatment to and track. Um And again that's really a concern.
Senator Matt Stone
Unverified
11:42
Can you respond to that, please? Well, once again, I think we're just trying to make the point where we're bringing the Jewish students up to parity because we can see what's going on. I don't know of any other race of people that during Christmas were subjected to what the Jewish people were here in Little Rock. I don't know of any other race of people that were subjected to what happened on the state capitol here a few weeks ago by
a group. There's a problem and I want to be proactive to get in front of it when it shows up, we have
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
12:15
a mechanism to deal with. This is all this bill simply does and I agree with that and appreciate the sentiment in that that's the sentiment behind Act 116 that we're not going to discriminate against anybody. We're not going to allow preferential treatment against anybody, and if you're acting in a discriminatory way, you're violating state law. I think federal
law also says that that those things you're describing
in this bill are fairly narrow. But federal law and now state law provide that protection for all people regardless of your race, religion, your sex, it's completely inclusive of all of those things.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
13:21
appreciate it. You'd identify yourself, you'll be recognized.
Josh Silverstein
Unverified
13:27
My name is Josh Silverstein. I'm a law professor and I live and work in
Little Rock. However, I'm here speaking today in my individual capacity. I'm not speaking on behalf of the university where I teach. Thank you for providing me this opportunity to testify. I'm here to speak against Senate Bill 352, which attempts to prohibit anti-Semitism and higher education, among other things. I'll also mention something I normally do not say, which is
that I'm Jewish. New laws to protect against anti-Semitism may in fact be justified, but unfortunately, Senate Bill 352 is not the way to address the harms of anti-Semitism, to be sure, there are aspects of the bill I approve of, but several parts of the bill are both bad policy and likely unconstitutional, particularly aspects of the definition of anti-Semitism from the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance, or IRA that is incorporated into the bill. The legislative findings in the first section of the
bill rightly note that there's been a
significant increase in anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish activity in recent years. Statistics compiled by both the government and nonprofit organizations like the Anti-Defamation League have tracked these troubling developments both in this country and abroad. I applaud efforts by the Arkansas legislature to address this problem, including through bills like the Holocaust Education Act back in 2021. And so I do think that Senators Stone and Gilmore and Representative Beatty deserve credit for making a serious effort at addressing anti-Semitism. The provision requiring that
each school treat anti-Semitic harassment and discrimination, the same as other types of discrimination is commendable, though in fairness I think as Senator Sullivan said federal law already requires that. The provision encouraging teaching about the Jewish experience in this country is excellent, and adding anti-Semitic conduct to the types of monitoring already do with respect to discrimination makes a great deal of sense. But some aspects of Senate Bill 352 are just too problematic for me to support the bill. The primary problem is the H R A definition that is
incorporated into the law. That definition is seriously overbroad, sweeping in speech that is clearly appropriate in an academic setting and protected by the First Amendment. I'll present 3 examples.
First, part 7 of the IHRA definition says that it's anti-Semitic to deny the Jewish people their right to self-determination by claiming, for example, that the existence of the
state of Israel is a racist endeavor. But speech to that effect is entirely appropriate in various courses in protests, and in other contexts. Those are legitimate criticisms of Israel.
To briefly elaborate, Israeli law provides that Israel is a Jewish state. That means that Jews have privileged status in Israel. Now I support that. I think it is morally justified for there to be a Jewish state given 3000 years of history of mistreatment of Jews. But making Israel the Jewish state is clearly discriminatory, and one can quite rationally believe that there should be no countries or any religion is prioritized over any other. Indeed, I have a long standing debate with a Jewish family member over whether the history of discrimination against Jews,
including the Holocaust, justifies creating a discriminatory country. I think the answer is yes. My relative does not. I will also add that it is likely unconstitutional to bar university professors, employees, and students from claiming that Israel is racist. not entitled to exist as presently designed. Second, part 10 of the definition bars comparisons of contemporary Israeli policies to that of the Nazis. I'll start by saying that this is unconstitutional under the First Amendment, allowing professors and students to compare the policies of other countries to
the Nazis but not Israel is a classic example of viewpoint discrimination. In addition, principles of academic freedom and free speech on campus, many of which are already reflected in state law, clearly permit comparing Israel to the policies of Nazi Germany, communist Soviet Union, and any other country throughout history. 3. Part 5 of the IHRA definition says that accusing Jews or Israel of exaggerating the Holocaust as anti-Semitic, but there are plausible arguments that Jews have exaggerated the Holocaust, and there are Jews who think Jews have exaggerated the Holocaust.
The principal form this takes is that Jews sometimes claim that other atrocities cannot be compared to the Holocaust, because the Holocaust is uniquely horrific. I think there's a case to be made that the Holocaust is uniquely horrific, but it's quite reasonable to think otherwise. There are other parts of the IHRA definition that are troubling, but the three I just discussed raised the most important concerns. The bill notes that if you make similar criticisms of Israel that you make to other countries, that is still protected, but there's no reason why anyone should have to make similar criticisms of other
countries before criticizing Israel. In terms of real world impacts, I will note that parties have already tried to use the IHRA definition in deeply troubling ways, including to bar guest speakers on campus or the showing of documentaries that present A pro-Palestinian perspective. And in other countries that have adopted the IHRA definition, universities routinely censor speech in ways that would be unconstitutional in this country. These points help to explain why Kenneth Stern, the lead author of the IHRA definition apparently opposes applying the definition on
campus. I recognize that the IHRA definition has already been incorporated into some parts of Arkansas law, but I don't think the problem should be compounded by applying it to speech on campus. I will conclude. Federal and state law already provide extensive rules to address true harassment, whether anti-Semitic, racist, or otherwise. The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition is not grounded in those legal protections. Instead, much of the definition seeks to bar speech based on viewpoint alone. That's inconsistent with the First Amendment of the US
Constitution, the free speech protections and Article 2 Section 6 of the Arkansas Constitution and principles of free speech and academic freedom throughout state statutory law. Thank you very much for this opportunity, and I'm more than happy to take any questions from
members of the committee if there are any. Thank you again. Where's the Oh, sorry, thank you. Yeah.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
19:34
Are there are any other questions from the committee? You like clothes
Senator Matt Stone
Unverified
19:38
for your bill, members. When this bill was drafted, I took it to the Attorney General's office. They went through it thoroughly and I, and I made every recommended change that they wanted to make. Then I sent it to the Department of Education, let them review it and look at it, and they offered suggestions and I made those changes. And then I let everybody look at it one last time and both those
agencies were good with the bill. I think it's a good bill. I believe it's a good solid bill, and I think it's not barring free speech on anything. It's just where you start getting physical with somebody is when this bill is going to kick in and stop, stop the violence, but I'd like to close by telling a story that I've heard more than one time. And the story has been told by our our governor Sarah Sanders. I've heard her tell the story when I think she was 8 years
old. She went to the nation of Israel and toured the Holocaust Museum. And she said it was so horrific what she saw, she walked through. Stunned and in silence. And when you got when you get through the end of that tour, and I've been through that museum, there's a And you can write things down if you want to. And she said she picked up the ink pen. And all she wrote in that book was Why didn't Somebody do something.
Well, I'm telling you I'm somebody and I'm sitting at the end of this table and I want to do something. So don't let record or don't let history record. Matt Stone didn't try to step up and fix the problem. I'm closed
Senator Jane English
Unverified
21:23
for my bill. Yeah Thank you. What is the
will of the committee? Every second Second, all in favor.
All post. Bree the nose, have it. Thank
you, Madam Chair. Thank you. OK, 2nd on our agenda is um Senator
Johnson with Senate Bill 317. We have an amendment.
Speaker 78
22:18
Yeah. Like to speak to your amendment. Thank you, Chair. Blake Johnson, Senate District 21. The amendment adds co-sponsors and also gives some clarity from the discussion from. The last presentation.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
22:50
Any questions from the committee. So OK First set a motion and seconded all in
Speaker 78
23:06
favor. All pose. Thank you, go ahead. Thank you, members, uh. We had a Good debate on this bill and I tried to address concerns on these prohibited activities with those uh those prohibited
foreign parties. With this amendment, it now would read number one, it would be conduct conduct classified research 2 would be Conduct agriculture research under contract. those are the changes and and with discussion, uh, hopefully it gives clarity and to the members and and gives comfort to to our agricultural community, uh.
And whenever we do uh field trials, those are not uh those are not under contract. Those are just testing the products to see how they do with other other other things, so. I think, I think we'll be uh we covered his agriculture producers with this with this amendment, and I'd appreciate a good vote. Thank you. Are there questions from
Senator Jane English
Unverified
24:13
the committee? There anybody in the audience like to
speak for or against. I don't think we have anybody
here. What is the will of the committee? The motion in 2nd on favor all pose. Thank you, you passed your bill. OK, let me see. Next, Senator Dees. Senate Bill 303. Is he here? The He's upstairs. OK. Then let me see, we will move
Speaker 84
24:54
to, um, Senator Dodson, 183, is that what you're doing? You can
Speaker 86
25:07
pass those things out, wait till he, he says.
Speaker 87
25:17
When he gets when he gets up to speak against the man. Yes.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
25:40
I. You'd identify yourself, you'll be
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
25:47
recognized. Thank you, Madam Chair. Senator Jim
Dotson. District 34, um, Senate Bill 183 is about giving students choices in the assessments that they take in in schools, um, that was the original thing I set out to do with this, this bill, as you can see, has been amended 4 times since I originally filed
it and through various reiteration I've worked with the department and various other entities to try to come up with what you see in front of you today, which is In essence, a expansion of the assessments that students are allowed to take and we'll pay for, we already pay for, but in addition to the ACT at 11th grade. We also pay for SAT and CLT if they choose to. Now this
still only allows them to choose one test in the upper grades and then one if you looked on page. For the bill, uh, about midway down it has the list of of tests that they can take in grades 9 through 9 or 10. And those are the pre-ACT, the PSAT preliminary SAT, uh, ACT 8 and 9.
He sat 10 or CLT 10, they can take that in grades 9 or 10 and then one of the following in grades 11, so we'll we'll cover two tests for them. I've worked with the department to come up with this language and then also we also added in in item C on that same page, the Armed Service Vocational aptitude battery that can be offered. In a public school or open enrollment public charter school and so um
If you have more questions. Or have a lot of detailed questions I do have experts from the department that are available to answer questions, but expanding and giving students choices and the assessments they take is the purpose of this bill. So
Senator Jane English
Unverified
28:00
I, I have a question. I, I guess I've never heard of the CLT before. Could you explain a little
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
28:07
bit about what that is and it's, it's another assessment that basically tests for reading, grammar, writing, or
mathematics, the classical learning. Assessment, um, I don't know. We get into more detail than than that there's various organizations that
Senator Jane English
Unverified
28:29
do these tests. These are the colleges accept that
as a some colleges I know only SAT and some on the ACT are there some colleges that only I
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
28:39
know that they're listed in the access
bill as things and so as far as the college and higher ed uh acceptance type things. I took that part. out of the original draft that I had in here because access was going to address that, and so the department might be able to answer a little bit better on what the higher level acceptance is for the various types of assessments. I mean, different schools have different. Requirements for their, their uh What they accept and what they
Speaker 97
29:18
don't, so all our colleges right now accepting that. I Our college is accepting CLT.
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
29:30
I mean, yeah, I mean, it's a, it's it's a variety, it's not standardized right now, so, but I think under
Under access, it may become standardized, that they, they're allowed to accept all those. So maybe would Courtney, would you like to come
Senator Jane English
Unverified
29:48
to the table with the chair's permission to I guess just because I haven't heard of it before doesn't mean it, but I, I never think I know colleges have some things that they accept and some that they don't. I was wondering about
Speaker 101
30:05
our own colleges. Courtney Saliford as a department, um, and I might have to call in some of our higher ed partners uh
Speaker 102
30:10
to help me out here, um, some higher ed institutions in our state do accept it. I believe the majority of them, you know, will take one of the
Speaker 103
30:19
various assessments, the CLT, ACT or SAT, um, our state scholarships, so you can take any of them, um, I'm not aware of any institutions that only require one or the other, but again,
Speaker 102
30:28
I, I know there's probably much more knowledgeable people from higher
Speaker 104
30:32
ed here that could answer that. Senator Murdoch Uh, thank you,
Senator Reginald Murdock
Unverified
30:46
Madam Chair. I don't have the answer to that,
but my question was on the on the bill as a lot of times when I'm looking at bills I I look at what you get rid of and I see you get rid of the smart, the uh smart core. Uh And ACT assessment that was previous. So this is a transitional and you're replacing that with these other options. As my understanding of it, the reason
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
31:09
we're striking through Smart Corps. It's not utilized, right, so this is
a trend As my understanding of it, the reason we're striking through Smart Corps. It's not utilized, right, so this is that part of the bill is more clean up of just cleaning out that section of code that's not being used anymore regarding
Senator Reginald Murdock
Unverified
31:25
smartcore and then this becomes the new menu though. OK, of what we have to choose from and I like the chair CLT I am not familiar with that either, so a definition of that probably inside the bill would
Speaker 108
31:37
have been. Helpful as well. But thank you, that
Speaker 103
31:41
helps it to the classical learning test, um, that again is pretty standardized. I, I cannot give you specifics on what that test actually covers, um, but I, I think just by reference to the that kind of, but
Speaker 111
31:52
we can define it further in rules as well.
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
31:58
Thank you, thank you. Thank you, Senator Sullivan. Thank you, Madam Chair. So I understand what you're saying just kind of confirm that the, the test that you're listed in here, we anticipate that access will pass, and that I'm anticipating it will pass and that these tests will be mandatory whatever is listed and access will be
mandatory throughout every university in the state. Is that
Speaker 103
32:31
correct? It's tied to state supported institutions and state funded lottery. refunded scholarships, yes, that any of the three would be, um, a factor that could be. Any of the three would be a test a student could take to meet the requirements for any of the enrollment in the state supported institutions or state funded scholarships. So the short answer
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
32:53
is yes. Yes. OK. And um And these that are listed here,
I ask it again to make sure I'm right. They're all consistent with what's
Senator Jane English
Unverified
33:06
in access. Correct, OK. All right. Thank you. And, and they a student would have not have to pay for these. That is correct. Sorry. Senator Flowers.
Speaker 125
33:34
5 brands. person. I've had magic touch. Thank
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
33:56
you. So, I, I um had a constituent of retiree
microphone. I had a constituent, a retired teacher to send me some information that she got online. About CLT. Why it started. And it seems that it refers to CLT director of Christian School Partnerships. So is this some kind of a Christian base. test is the test on. Not that I'm aware of. Um, no, I'm not aware of any
Speaker 104
34:36
religious affiliation with it as well. Again, it's
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
34:42
the classical learning test. Well, it refers to This uh, Adam Roat. CLT director of Christian school. partnerships. And then she also sent me a list of What schools accept this CLT. Benedictine College Bob Jones University.
Cedarville University Grove City College, Liberty University. Harding University, Mount Saint Mary's University. And Palm Beach Atlantic University. So the only one I can see, you can tell me if I'm wrong, is Harding in Arkansas that accepts this. Test. For admission
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
35:28
purposes, is that correct? CLT is classical learning that assessment and so I think there's a variety of of uh
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
35:37
institutions that probably accept it. I just named the ones that are online that accept it. So it's it's Harding the only one
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
35:46
in Arkansas that accepts it. I couldn't tell you an exhaustive list. Does the person
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
35:52
from the website right now, um. What schools in Arkansas
Speaker 102
35:59
accept this test? I unfortunately do not know the the admissions criteria for every institution, um. My understanding from our higher
ed division is that most of our institutions allow multiple measures and so they will look at any assessment that the student has taken, so there may not be any institutions that require this one specifically, but it's to Senator Dodson's bill, if a student chose to take the CLT, and they had other things like their grade GPA, etc. that every institution would look at
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
36:33
those multiple measures. Just scrolling through the list. No John Brown University does
Harding, I mean, I'm trying to look at the ones that I recognize. In Arkansas specifically, but I don't have an exhaustive list and. Without clicking on each one. And finding out uh. Where these are
all located, but Like University of Austin, University of Florida, University of New Mexico. Have you seen one of these tests? As the Department of
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
37:01
we had seen one of the tests hire he had seen one of the tests. Yes.
And what about the content? Can you say something about the content, I mean, is it comparable to ACT SAT. Yes,
Speaker 103
37:19
it is, it is another measure of students' knowledge and skills that they have acquired through their um high school career. Um, math, science, uh, English language arts. It covers all of the same areas as SAT and ACT. Does it cover biblical studies?
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
37:41
Not to my knowledge. classical learning like
reading, grammar, writing, mathematics, so those those assessments for the. For those basic skills, those
classical learning skills. What made you bring
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
37:53
this? Bill What choice to allow students to pick whichever assessment they
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
37:59
are most comfortable with taking and students that have taken this assessment. There's a lot of students that You know
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
38:13
I personally know anybody asked you to? To Sponsor a bill that will allow them to Take this
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
38:27
test? Giving students choices. Has anybody asked you? I don't have a specific students
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
38:31
that's asked me on this particular test, any particular
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
38:33
school or this is not just specifically regulated to CLT, it also expands it for SAT as well. I understand that,
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
38:39
but I'm concerned about the CLT because I've never heard of it
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
38:44
and many of my constituents have never heard of it. Well, a lot of people have never heard of
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
38:52
a lot of different things I this is a common assessment if I hadn't heard
of it and don't know what's in it. Why would I? Except to confuse students and teachers. And will it change the, the schematic of
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
39:09
curriculum, so this is not a requirement. It is purely optional and so giving students the choices and the
school districts. They might focus more on the assessments that particular assessment gravitates toward, so making sure that we align not only the the testing and the assessments that a local school district is is having, but also if we're moving into things with higher education that says, OK, we have these things that uh higher education state supportive institution can accept or shall accept the testing for these types of
things, they need to be on the list available to students to choose. So some students may want to choose the SAT and not be required to to to do the ACT only like it is right now in law. So right now ACT has kind of a monopoly on the assessments that we pay for. This would allow the expansion and options for students to be able to choose whichever assessment they want, and then align if if. Access passes into law. It would
align it to where the state supported institutions of higher education, as well as scholarship. students institutions that scholarships. would have to accept
Speaker 93
40:26
CLT SAT shaking your head yes. And I was able
Speaker 102
40:35
that there's currently 6, colleges in Arkansas that accept the CLT. What are they? Harding, John Brown University,
Speaker 104
40:48
Williams Baptist, Crowley's Ridge College, Ecclesia College and University of the Ozarks in Clarksville.
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
40:55
Most of them have a religious affiliation. At least a few of them that I heard you call. Thank you,
Speaker 163
41:07
madam Chair. Senator Davis. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
41:11
I just wanted to clarify on the fiscal impact statement. That's just like worst case scenario because they can choose. So you're just
saying if every single student in 9th or 12th grade took this exam, it would be A $5 million impact, but I
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
41:27
want to point out, if you look at the date on that, that was before this bill was amended the first time, and it's had 4 amendments since then. I've worked with the department, so I don't know if there's a revised physical impact on it yet, but the department helped me craft because they were concerned about the fiscal impact of the original draft, so I I'm not sure what the if there's a revised I don't know that we
Speaker 102
41:51
have a revised one, but um I can say that yes, the fiscal impact is done on worst case scenario. So if every student chose to take the most expensive test based on public pricing listed on the internet, um. Like we have done in the past with ACT, we would most likely negotiate with each of these, um, the, the companies that offer SAT and CLT to get a lower state rate, um, so that it was uniform and consistent, and then we would make that again available to every student, and
so ideally there would be a neutral. There would be no fiscal impact, but um, gotta love our CFOs. They go worst case scenario if every student took the most expensive test with the published public rights. That that's where they came up with that number. OK I think that's what I thought. I just wanted to clarify. Thank you. So I, I Can a
Senator Jane English
Unverified
42:42
student take this test more than any, any of these assessments more than once. It can take. 1 in 8th and 9th on that that
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
42:55
list and then 1 in 11th. So we'll we'll cover the cost of 2. They can take it as many times as they want, but we're only gonna pay for one of each. So they they can't take. One of every test on the list, but one, they selected one off the list and they can take one of those, we'll pay for that one and 9th or 10th grade and then we'll pay for either the ACT SL SAT
or CLT one of those 3 in 11th grade. Any further questions from the committee.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
43:28
Is there anybody in the Audience like to speak for or against, we have somebody here to pass this out. you would identify
yourself, you'll be recognized. Yes, ma'am. Good morning. My
Jake Robinson
Unverified
43:49
name is Jake Robinson. I am a state government relations director for the ACT and I am testifying in opposition to SB 183 on behalf of the ACT.
And so before I begin, I did provide some written testimony as well with the study that I'll reference in just a second behind it and I did want to thank Senator Dodson for being very open and having transparent approach to this bill with us despite our opposition. So as we talked about all of your students in Arkansas have access to the ACT at the junior year and also the access to the academic challenge scholarship if they score 19 or higher. I know there's some changes being talked about and under the Access bill, but the scholarship
provision for the ACT of a 19 is in the filed version as well. Um. And then specifically SB 183. The couple of concerns that we have first, um, there is no valid concordance between the CLT and the ACT, or the SAT for that matter. They they have a concordance on their website. No ACT data was used in that concordant study and as I'll mention in a 2nd, 3rd parties have said that there is no valid concordance on that.
And then also um One concern that we have is around implementation. So currently all of your high schools give the ACT, so that means they are prepared to administer one assessment. These college readiness assessments or high stakes assessments. Sometimes they have pretty burdensome administration requirements and proctoring requirements under this bill, every high school in the state would be would be required to administer up to 9 exams, so that means they would have to know the proctoring and administration of 9 different exams, so that might put a
burden on your high schools. And then I know that ADE mentioned. Um, the fiscal impact, so currently the ACT is a negotiated rate, of course, but this would require as many as 9 contracts, but at least 3 contracts with the 3 different organizations and so there would likely be an increased cost to that. I can talk about that more if you'd like to. And then finally, um, behind the written testimony that I provided, there is a study from the Iowa Board of Regents that I'd like to
share regarding the CLT, and this is in their words, I quote, in examining the research on CLT, the team located no evidence to support the predictive efficacy of the CLT and to date, the team has identified no peer reviewed journal articles addressing the relationship to student outcomes and the CLT technical guide does not include any study of the relationship between the CLT or its subskills and student outcomes. So what I would ask is Does Arkansas want to use a test that is relatively new and has no publicly available peer reviewed evidence that it
actually predicts college readiness or success in college. And meanwhile, the ACT in Arkansas have had a long history and studies have repeatedly shown that ACTs programs are aligned with Arkansas's curriculum framework and to Arkansas students readiness for college and work, so I'd be happy to answer any questions, but thank you for allowing me to testify. Din,
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
47:01
Sullivan. But this list is consistent with what we're going to see in
Jake Robinson
Unverified
47:06
access. Are you? Prepared is your goal or plan to oppose that also. I'm not sure. I know that access is a much longer bill with a lot of different provisions in it where this is just one specific provision, I will say access relates to what universities are required to accept, so you may have universities that or you may under access be willing to allow students to use the CLT for admissions purposes, but that doesn't mean that you want to give the CLT to all of your high school students as well, or access to all of your high
school students through state funding. One of the benefits of the ACT is or any test for that matter having uniform data across the state, you can determine what students are college ready student to get way beyond what I
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
47:48
was asking, so I'm just asking if that's in the bill, these tests are in the
bill, and that is a portion of the bill will you be opposing that portion of the bill when access comes before us. I'm not sure if we
Jake Robinson
Unverified
48:01
will oppose or stay neutral on the bill as a whole this bill, but you're not sure
if you're going to oppose the other one. We be opposed to that provision of the bill using the CLT for college admissions purposes. Thank you. Senator
Speaker 174
48:16
Murdoch. Yes, if you have, uh, come back. Yeah.
Speaker 188
48:25
Do I step out or you stay there. Thank
Senator Reginald Murdock
Unverified
48:32
you, Madam Chair. Thank you. As it relates to what he is saying about CLT and the.
The problems with CLT and its lack of validity. How did the department because you reviewed this,
Speaker 102
48:51
correct? So can you respond to what he's saying? Definitely not as well, um, as he articulated many of the points, um, our assessment professionals have looked at all three assessments, have they can attest to um again, that each one measures the
Speaker 103
49:03
skills and knowledge necessary for a student to be successful in college. That's what we're really looking at when students
are taking the ACT SAT, or CLT. Have they learned enough and gained the skills enough to be successful in college and so we want to open that up to students. Yes, currently ACT is given to every 11th grader in the state and the state pays for that. Um we believe students should have options and if students want to take the SAT or the CLT and the school that they intend to go to values that whether it's an Arkansas institution or an outside Arkansas institution. If they value that and they feel
that that is an accurate assessment of that student's skills and knowledge, then they should have that option as well instead of a state statute mandating that every student take the same test and that the state pay for
Senator Reginald Murdock
Unverified
49:55
it. And he works for ACT, so he's coming as a competitor, if you will to see it, so I understand that, but I want to get an assurance from you because you provide the support that we need we rely upon you to for that
expertise. So I want to hear it from you. With what
Speaker 103
50:16
he has testified to. Yes, our the department and our assessment professionals feel confident that it is equally as Capable of measuring students' knowledge and skills. Then the flowers. Bring that close to you.
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
50:43
At last statement you just made, what
is that based on? What is the department's Opinion A conclusion That
Speaker 199
50:57
you just stated based on It is based on the many years of training and
Speaker 103
51:02
experience that our staff have in administering assessments and assisting in developing questions for assessments, um, have they seen the Yes, CLT, yes.
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
51:14
When How long has it been around? how are they? been able to Really come to a Conclusion about something that's so new. And so few colleges or universities except I don't understand that. I think that's part of their training,
Speaker 196
51:37
part of the, the knowledge and, and abilities that they have in part of their
Speaker 103
51:44
job is to look at those and to make those determinations. That's why we have assessment experts on
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
51:53
our staff. So if somebody came up with an assessment test. Last week, the people over in the
department can can come to a conclusion on that, you
Speaker 103
52:06
think? I mean, could, could they come to a conclusion? Yes. Would it be based on limited information, yes, because they can only
evaluate what's available to them, but the CLT wasn't established last week and again we're not, when was it established? I'm sorry, I don't have that information. Within
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
52:23
the last several years, would you say? I, I haven't
don't answer that. I do not. You don't know if it's 10 years, 20 years, 5 years. I do not know or even 2 years. I do not know. Is somebody in the room that is a part of this assessment team. They came up with the result?
Speaker 103
52:44
No, ma'am. Where are they? Um, in the department in their offices working. But I'm happy to get someone in touch with you to, to talk about
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
52:56
it in more in depth. I'd like to know. I'm here to make a little conclusion like that I don't. I don't
understand how they got to that. And I'd like to understand how did they get to
Speaker 207
53:09
that conclusion? Yes, ma'am. I'll be happy to have someone contact you. They
Jake Robinson
Unverified
53:14
should have been here. Thank you, madam. Thank you. What you've finished. Oh yes, I was just going to add one other thing. I know you asked about which universities in Arkansas currently accept the CLT. I do believe no public institutions currently accept it in their admissions processes. Now students can submit it as part of their holistic application, but none have decided to do that independently to this point.
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
53:50
of flowers. What would The public Colleges and universities. Have even been asked about CLT or is that just left to the people over
Speaker 103
54:15
Ed. There have been discussions with The commissioner of higher
education, Dr. Ken Warden with the institutions and I'm not making excuses, but he had full every intention of being here today and then broke his foot and is currently at the doctor being as looked at, um, so I, but he has had conversations with institutions, um, we have not received, to my knowledge, any information or pushback from institutions that they would not allow this test that they have any concerns about the CLT, um, we had many
discussions during the drafting of access as to what any anyone have concerns if this was made a um option under our state's funded scholarships. We received no pushback, no negative information, except for
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
55:06
from ACT. Would a public college or university. be able to have a preference for which assessment test. Currently,
Speaker 196
55:19
yes, that is, um, that is allowed. And
Speaker 103
55:26
Under access that's coming to us. Would they still be allowed if access is past in its current written form, um, no, I don't believe that they could pick one test over the other that they would have to allow any of these assessments to count towards the admission criteria. Thank you, Madam Chair. There are
Senator Jane English
Unverified
55:52
other questions from the committee. Have you finished? Thank you. You may be
excused. So the questions of the
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
56:10
sponsor? Would you like to It's all I'll close and um say that uh this gives students options. There are uh And just looking through the list, there's over 280 universities. Across the country that do accept CLT
so if there is an Arkansas student who is wanting to go to one of those institutions, whether it's in state or out of state, um, this would give them the opportunity to take that assessment to align with the emissions standards of wherever they're wanting to attend, so this expands the options and opportunities for students, whether it's CLT, SAT, uh, ACT, um, the only other thing, and I think it was It was kind of laid out, obviously ACT is opposed because
they do have a, a kind of a financial interest in this, so I I understand their opposition from that regard, but opportunities for students, I think trumps that. So um with that, I'm closed and make a motion to
pass. A discussion on the motion. All in favor,
Senator Jane English
Unverified
57:20
all opposed. Guys have it. Thank you very
much, Senator. Sender these Senate Bill 303. OK.
Senator Tyler Dees
Unverified
57:45
Thank you, Madam Chair and members. Yes, please. We have an amendment like to run for adoption. I think it's being passed out. State Senator Tyler Dees, District 35. And um so the amendment today is
from feedback we heard earlier this week from this committee from work that we've done with with different representatives, um, relating to this bill, and it's really brings clarity to our public charter schools just to make sure that they're being treated the same way as our public schools and so it adds language to confirm that a resident school for a student
is treated the exact same way for a public school and a public charter school.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
58:38
We adopted this that this amendment. We have motion to it, needed motion, Senator Sullivan, 2nd. Senator Davis, on
favor all post. Thank you. Go ahead.
Senator Tyler Dees
Unverified
58:53
Thank you, members. So Senate Bill 303 as amended is just refreshing your memory is um a bill about opportunity and um you know, we, we hang our hat as a state, as a land of opportunity, and that's, that's
really what this is trying to do is give more opportunities to students across our state. You'd asked me to come back with a couple of questions, Senator Flowers, and and others about one clarity. on on public charter schools and so that's what this amendment did. And then 2, you'd asked me about scale and number of students and and how this would impact and so I wanted to bring back some of that data and did my homework on that, so this is very similar to what we've done related to homeschool students to allow them to participate in their resident school only in
their in their home district and um so it's, it's a very small scale. So when we look at the data going into this year's school district year. only 96 school districts had any homeschool students participate in AAA activities in public school. So out of our 200, I believe it's 237 school districts, only 96 school districts had any homeschool students participate of Of those 96 school districts, only 14 had more than 10 students. In that in their district that
were homeschool students that participated in AAA activities, so it's a very majority of these, the average is less than 5 students in a school district. So you talk about the scale, we're talking about 5 kids in a district that were homeschool students that that signed up and said we'd like to participate in band or choir or baseball, and so with that scale we see similar scale with what we're trying to do here. We've got small, small private schools that are just now starting to take, take part into the Learns
Act and a lot of those students were homeschool students. In fact, in my district, that's why this bill is here is because we've got students that were homeschool students that are now in a small that used to be a homeschool co op that are now in a considered accredited private school and are all of a sudden not eligible to participate in AAA activities and so what this does, it just, it creates a framework for two things. It's actually, it's actually more permissive than the homeschool law. The homeschool law has language that says shall.
Under this law, it's permissive. It may permit the public school may permit and so um I believe we've taken care of the, the vast majority of concerns with with 22 main instances in that the funding follows the student to the public school, so the public school gets gets paid for the services they're providing, and they should. And then also they still have a check and ability to make permit, permit or may not. So if there's any concerns of capacity or anything that that is outside of our realm of thought. But I hope that helps bring some
peace of mind that this is really trying to help and give opportunities to students, um, across the
Senator Reginald Murdock
Unverified
1:01:53
state. Senator Murdoch Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Senator Des, um, I The way this sounds, just help me through this. So there's an athlete that goes to the private school. And the school but the school district and the athlete says, OK, this athlete that can shoot
like Tyler Ds, then we want to, we want to bring him to the public school or charter school. and so he could participate.
Speaker 108
1:02:19
In that if they agree, whose choice is it the athlete's choice or the district's choice? Well, it's
Senator Tyler Dees
Unverified
1:02:26
a great question. So, so I would say how the bill's written is first if they, if they go to a private
school that has those AAA activities, they're not eligible. So first, so first off, and so when you look at our largest private schools, the largest in the state, for example, like your Shiloh Christians, your Little
Rock Christians, Pulaski Academy, a lot of those schools have AAA, so those students wouldn't be eligible to do this, right, and for those activities and so So you say, whose decision? I'd say would probably start with the family if they want to pursue that, but then they would reach out to the the resident school and it'd be up to then they would have the check to permit it at that point. And I think it's probably good to add on to this question too because we don't see a lot of this happening with homeschool students to scale. I don't think we'll have this to scale with this law either because it all
the process is the same for athletics, for example, if a student says, I want to go play basketball at the at the resident. school. Well, they still have to go through the same process with the coach and the team and the tryout and, and, and so if, if they're not, I guess, good enough to make the team, then they probably wouldn't want to want to do this. And
so again there's lots of scales that that kind of limit the scope of the of the students involved
Senator Reginald Murdock
Unverified
1:03:38
with this you cleared it up because I was getting to the point of that existing school taking their best player and thank you.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:03:50
The further questions from the committee. Anybody in the
audience to speak for or against the bill? Not seeing any, what's the
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:04:11
will of the committee? OK. Yes, Madam Chair, this is more a process question. I'm for the bill, but we adopted amendment in committee on Monday. To
These both both amendments, will they work together? I
mean, we're, we just adopted another amendment, so there's two amendments on the bill that has not been the First Amendment hasn't been engrossed. Into the bill. So I just want to make sure we don't mess anything up with engrossing, I mean, the motion is as amended. But amended as amended with both amendments, yeah, because we didn't take the other amendment from Monday off the bill. I just want to make sure they're both adopted. But it's my understanding,
Senator Tyler Dees
Unverified
1:04:56
Senator, that both have been adopted and with um With a motion due pass today, it would be passed as amended, and that would include both amendments. I just want to make sure that there's no problem with
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:05:07
engrossing two amendments into The same bill. So motion to adopt as amended for both amendments. Super.
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:05:29
Sean, thank you. OK, any other, any other discussion? All in favor all
post. Thank you very much, Pastor Bill. Thank you, members. OK. Let's see what we have left here. I think that is 35. Are you going to do your Are you doing that, Bill? 358.
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:06:02
No. Thank you. Madam Chair, there's an amendment being passed out to this. Senate Bill 358. Because
You'd identify yourself, you'll be recognized. Senator Jim Dotson sent District 34, and I have with me. Let's
Speaker 242
1:06:43
rust Melissa Russ, University of Arkansas system. Proceed.
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:06:48
Thank you, Madam Chair. Before we get started on the bill itself, there's an amendment that went around and give everybody a chance to look at it. This is a last minute correction that we caught after the bill was.
was finalized yesterday and so I would move that
we adopt the amendment. Into the bill and then discuss the
Speaker 53
1:07:18
bill as amended. I'm not sure what this is all
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:07:25
about. Do you have questions? The amendment, I hear a motion. The second OK.
Right. You're making a motion motion on the amendment, yes, on the amendment. All
in favor. all pose. Thank
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:07:48
you, go ahead. All right. Members, this is
a higher education, cleanup bill, um, it has several different sections through it, and I'm going to let Miss Russ go through and and describe what those sections are
and if you have any detailed questions, she's capable of answering them.
Speaker 170
1:08:15
you identified. Go ahead. Thank you.
Speaker 248
1:08:17
Thank you, Madam Chairman. Um, members of the committee, the higher ed community got together several months ago
Speaker 249
1:08:24
and I looked at various provisions of Arkansas law is that concerned higher education and made some decisions about some provisions that we felt needed to be cleaned up, um, just very quickly, um, sections 129, and 13. Address, um, either affirmative action programs, plans and summaries or minority retention
programs, and we believed that in accordance with federal law as well as Senate Bill 3 that Senator Sullivan spoke of just a moment ago that's now Act 116 that in accordance with state and federal law, those were provisions that were no longer needed in the code, uh, section 3 has to do With what we believe to be an unnecessary duplication of services, primarily because a number of years ago, you may remember that to your colleges
in particular had assigned service areas uh where they could offer their services or academic programming, and this legislative body deleted those service areas a number of years ago. I Senator, um, English, I believe you were the sponsor of that legislation and so that's the basis for the request to delete section. in Section 3. Section 4 has to do with the cost of remediation, a number of years ago there was a requirement um in the
productivity funding formula that took into consideration the cost of remediation, and that's no longer a part of our current funding formula and thus the reason for the request on Section 3 or 4, excuse me, Section 5 has to do with a committee and a report that's required on energy conservation in the state. The committee has never met, um, no activity has ever occurred, uh, with respect to this particular piece of legislation and so it was believed to be
unnecessary as well and simply just to clean up to delete that. Section 6, I wanted to spend a little bit of time on this because this is the basis for part of the amendment that you adopted a moment ago. The Arkansas Research Education and Optical Network is an entity that uh was created back in 2007. And it provides fiber optic uh network capabilities for all the institutions with all of the public institutions within the state of Arkansas with the exception of one who chose not
to be a part of the uh R on network and that network essentially it has existed since 2007 and but we never brought forward any language to codify it. It does receive some state funding, not general revenue, no general revenue has ever gone towards network, the campuses pay for the network, but there is a small amount of mineral lease funding that comes from the lease of federal property or federal lands in Arkansas and so we felt like it was important to
at least identify um the Arkansas Research Education Optimal Network to provide for the membership and essentially what they do, which is provide network services for our campuses, um, the amendment specifically addresses the membership of the board. Um, yesterday after. afternoon I was contacted by a campus that said, um, we want to make sure that every campus chancellor or president has an opportunity to serve on the board and the language, the way that it was written indicated to
and to excuse me, 2 presidents or chancellors from a 4-year institution to from a two-year institution and the president of the UA system and the president of the ASU system are, are. Members of the board and so the concern was that because of the scope of the UA system and the ASU system, then there might not be an opportunity for presidents or chancellors from campuses that are that are independent campuses and when it was brought to my attention, I assured the individual that asked me about
it, that historically what has happened since the inception of Ron is there has always been independent presidents or chancellors that are on the board, and I didn't anticipate. that that would ever change, but it's very easy for me to say that and not be here in 5 years and somebody questioned that and so the request was, could we simply change the language so that one of the members of a four-year university or one of the members of a two-year university would always be, um, a representative of a campus
that's not part of either the UFA system or the ASU system, and I had no concerns with that whatsoever because it was never intended for it to be otherwise. wise and Senator Dodson was very open to doing that as well and so that's the reason and that's the, that's the language in the amendment to make sure that independent campuses are likewise represented on the board, um, on section 7, that is simply the authority for two-year colleges to use what's called the alternative delivery
method for construction, um, early on when legislation was passed to allow this construction method. It applied to a number of the universities, but not all, because not all wanted to be covered and then a number of 2-year campuses wanted this authority, so there was legislation. It actually started a special language and when special language, there was a desire to codify that. It was moved over to um statute, and at that time it only listed two of the two-year campuses in the
state, uh, National Park College in Northwest Arkansas Community College, and so all the two-year colleges wanted this. And so, um, we, so we added all the two-year colleges by saying to your state support institution of IRE, I will tell you that um I was contacted by a campus, one of the universities who basically asked if we would just move that institution so that they were listed under all of the universities, and that seemed like a very reasonable
request and so that's also part of the amendment that you have in front of you. Um, the rest of the language. Frankly, um, sections 8 and 17 have to do with an exemption from using Arkansas Building Authority for leases because, and we checked with Arkansas Building Authority and they had no objection to that. Sections 1014, 15, and 16 are simply taking out language about classified and non-classified positions because we no longer have that distinction anymore.
Section 11 just gives the UA system board, the authority when our secretary is Not in Little Rock to be able to have a designee when we are signing concerning the donation of lands and then the last section is simply, um, another section about um alternative alternative delivery method on the summary of contract amendments, those amendments are done at the very beginning when you first are doing the project and you add up all those amendments to get to what's
called guaranteed maximum price and so this just cleans up the fact that that is all determined on the. front in. So I know it's a lot. I'd be happy to answer any questions if anybody has any, but the point of this was just to try to do some clean up for higher ed. And Thank you. So we're creating a new board. It's a board that's already in existence, Senator Sullivan, it's just simply not been in law. It's a board that has met since 2007 and it's not, I was
Speaker 42
1:16:02
asked this question yesterday, it wasn't in law,
Speaker 249
1:16:05
it wasn't really a board then. Well, it's a board, but it's not a board that
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:16:10
is set out in Arkansas law. OK, who has oversight of that board if this bill passes, who
Speaker 249
1:16:15
has oversight? So, so the way that board is constituted, the presidents and chancellors of the 2 year and 4 year campuses determine. and who will be on that board among their membership and um it's not a board, for instance, that's appointed by the governor as a number of boards are in the state. This is simply a board um
that the 2 year and the 4-year presidents are members of that govern basically the activities of this particular organization. Oh, no one has oversight. Well like the oversight
Speaker 250
1:16:46
is the presidents and chancellors of the of those campuses, but we as a legislature. are
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:16:53
creating a board. In law that we have no oversight responsibilities too. How can that be? Well, I guess the
Speaker 249
1:17:01
best way I can answer the question for you is
that, as I said, the board has been in existence, and we just simply were wanting to codify, you know, that board, um, but it is a board that's basically self-perpetuating in the sense that um, you know, a board member serves, for instance, a two-year campus uh chancellor or president serves for 2 years and then it rotates to a get it
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:17:25
I get it. I'm very concerned that we create these boards and commissions who feel like they are independent. We create them. We can take them out.
So if we are creating it, if they want to meet as a group of folks, go ahead. Which was what they were doing. They created a group of folks that wanted to meet, serve a a united purpose and that's fine. But once we codify it and once it's in law, I think um again, they're not independent. They are underneath the Arkansas legislature under the executive branch. Would you agree with that? Would they agree with that? Yeah, and I wouldn't want to speak with them,
Speaker 253
1:18:03
Senator. I think you can understand that. I
Speaker 249
1:18:10
mean, I, all I can do is just basically, you know, assure you that, um, you know, this port is created for this purpose and only for this purpose and only, you know, with
Speaker 254
1:18:19
respect to the management there's no need and we agree
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:18:22
there they play well together and all those kind of things. That's really nice, but if we're going to create them by statute. They need to understand that the oversight responsibility rests with the
legislature. Senator, would you agree with that? Thank you.
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:18:42
Senator Davis. Thank you, Madam Chair. I, I do have several questions, and I, I was curious you said higher ed's been working on this spill for months prior to session. Was this uh bill draft shared with
Speaker 256
1:18:56
all of the members of higher ed before filing.
Speaker 249
1:19:00
We, we talked about the different provisions and everything, but no, I don't believe that it was. I mean, I think we were, we've worked on it for a number of, of months as I indicated, Senator Davis, but
I've pretty much been the person trying to pull all the information together and talking to the campuses and,
Speaker 250
1:19:19
and I think we were trying to get it, get it filed, so we did talk about
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:19:25
it, but the actual document, um, no, it was not. Thank you. Um, so
on questions about this board that we're talking about, um, it will still be receiving state funds after this, is that correct or
Speaker 250
1:19:38
federal funds? Yeah, the only funds that
Speaker 249
1:19:41
it receives are um some phones that are that
are from the leases, mineral lease money on from the lease of some federal lands, um, but it doesn't receive any, any state funds other than that directly
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:19:54
from the General Assembly. And right now or any of the users of this network
currently paying rates to the board they're currently paying rates they
Speaker 250
1:20:03
pay user fees or membership fees, um, each institution does, it's a member of the of the network. OK. Um, so,
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:20:15
I have a few more questions on that. So why, why was it important to you to have the UA and ASU system listed specifically to be permanent members of the board while independent members have
to Um, have one spot and trade off. Um
Speaker 249
1:20:30
I, I think the best way I can answer that is that historically is how the board was set up, you know, at the very beginning, the theministrative aspect of, of addressing a number of the issues for for this network has,
has been from the very beginning with the, with the UA system. Uh, the positions, for instance, uh, at Ron R in the UA system appropriation Act, um, and, um, any administrative support that's been provided, you know, to them, the UA system has provided that and so I think bringing the bringing the membership of
Speaker 250
1:21:08
the board forward was simply to codify essentially what what the membership has been from the beginning.
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:21:19
So, uh, realistically there could easily be, I mean, most years
that, um, One of the systems dominates the board and the UA system specifically, um, who is permanently, you guys have written that the president of the US system is permanently the chair of this board. Um, and this board is what determines rates for the institutions to pay and so my concern is that there can be some inequity there in, you know, the UA system.
Being in charge permanently of the board and then have most of the members of that board be a UA system member and then decide what rates they're charging all the other institutions, including the independent ones who, you know, get to have a voice, but, um, never have an opportunity to have a majority of the voice or even, you know, more than 2 members at a time, it seems to have input, and so, you know, my concern there, um, I do have a lot of concern
there, um, because they're not. Responsible to anyone. The board is acting on its own independently, um, so, uh, my next question is what, what do the rates go to pay? Is it just staff or I mean, like what would prohibit them from suddenly saying we want to double or triple rates that we're charging institutions, we have no oversight, we can do what we want and the UA system's permanently in charge, so they're going to approve it and they have a majority votes.
Speaker 249
1:22:53
So first of all, there is an at-large member on the board, um, so, so it's conceivable, um, you know, well, number one, it's conceivable that that both to your college representatives as well as both 4-year college representatives, for instance, even an at-large member could be independent campuses, there's no, there's no prohibition on that that at least as I read the language, um, second, um, I would say to you that, um. Well, let me back up. The positions that the board has,
Senator Davis, they, they have, they have few, few staff, um, I think there the number of positions that to the best of my knowledge is less than 10 or right around that number. Um, and so the fees, for instance, that the institutions are paying or to pay for this, for the salaries of those individuals in the overhead, you know, um, clearly there are there are leases, um, that are entered into, um, you know, for fiber, for instance, and other, other services, um, that the
campuses need, you know, insofar as it concerns their fiber optic network and they're in, in their IT basically functions and that's essentially what pays, you know, the cost, you know. For the board or that's essentially what the campuses are paying for. Um, I have never been aware of, to my knowledge, and that there has ever been any significant disagreement, if you will, among the presidents and chancellors and insofar as it concerns their membership fees or the fees that they're paying for, you know, some campuses
want fees beyond what others want or want services beyond what others want, and so, you know, there are prices that are set, you know, as a result of that. Um, but I'm not, you know, I know you have to look out for the big picture, broader picture, and I clearly understand that and I appreciate that, but to my knowledge, you know, the, the fees have been set and I'm not aware of there ever being a situation as you describe, although I certainly don't,
Speaker 250
1:24:51
I certainly don't discount the fact that there could be at some point in time.
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:24:58
You are there any transparency mechanisms within the board so that members can see that the rates they're paying are going specifically to You know, there's not like any price gouging or anything
Speaker 249
1:25:09
going on, so in the future not to my knowledge, In fact, it's, it's my understanding and it's my understanding that um that information, you know, and those rates are shared with the presidents and chancellors. Um, now, can I tell you that I know 100% if everybody sees everything. I can't tell you
that. I believe that to be the case, but I don't want to represent something that I, I can't tell you 100%, and certainly, I certainly happy to to. To
Speaker 250
1:25:36
try to determine and get you that information. Sure. So So that's
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:25:46
an interesting question. So when they meet as this group of folks that are want me, are they subject
to open meetings laws? I don't know that
Speaker 253
1:25:55
there's ever been a request. That's not the question. I'm
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:26:01
asking are they legally to open meetings laws because once we, once we do this, they are. So have they been? are they now as a fraternity, sorority whatever they you want to list them. Are they subject to open meetings currently. I'm hearing you don't know or the answer is no. I'm not certain, Senator Sullivan,
Speaker 249
1:26:23
to be honest, I, I don't want to represent something that I can't tell you 100% on sure.
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:26:32
Senator Dodson, do you know if they are subject to them, but under this law, they certainly would be moving forward. I would think. I
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:26:42
would think so if they're right. OK, thank you, created board or entity. The further questions from the committee. If there's
Madam Chair, I'd like to hear if there's any other questions on any other part of the bill, but listen to the conversation, I think that Ron and the board is a little more than a cleanup, and so that probably deserves a little broader discussion. So with the chair's permission. I'd like to pull that down and amend that part out of the bill. For this cleanup bill itself, but if there's other questions on other parts of
the bill, I'd love to hear those from members, um, before I do that. Senator Sullivan.
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:27:37
Yeah, thank you for that. I don't, how do you clean up a bill that
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:27:43
wasn't codified before. Well, I had the same thought as I was sitting here, so that's why I'm pulling it down and taking that out. That sounds a little more like policy to me
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
1:27:52
than just it's no longer clean up if it wasn'tified, yeah, OK, thank you. So you're going
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:27:59
to pull your bill down on other parts of the bill, if everybody's fine with the rest of it, then, then uh we'll take
that part out, the R on, uh, and move forward with
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:28:15
the bill without that in it. For further questions from the committee. Senator Davis, I reserve my right to have issues with your next
Speaker 278
1:28:22
draft. Thank you. There, there are issues. Thank
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
1:28:28
you, Senator Murdoch is, are there anything, is there anything that you identify right now that we can work on, uh, that you know, I understand you
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
1:28:42
reserve the right to have future issues. The red, I mean my, my concern really is with the board being heavy-handed to the UA system and both systems specifically. I mean, I understand that that's how it's always been. So I'm not saying all the, you know, propose or opposed to that, um, I, I just like long term, what does that look like and in 20 years from now, what does that mean for all of the institutions, um, in any of the independents that are left. I just like that concerns me long
Speaker 89
1:29:14
term, but I mean, maybe I can be agreeable to it at some point. Thank you. OK, thank you
Senator Jane English
Unverified
1:29:24
very much. You're going to draw your bill down. Thank you. So Seeing no further business. We are adjourned. Yeah
Agenda
Call to Order
SB183 J. Dotson TO AMEND THE UNIVERSAL ACT ASSESSMENT PROGRAM ACT; AND TO AMEND THE TYPES OF ASSESSMENTS PUBLIC SCHOOLS MAY PROVIDE TO STUDENTS.
SB303 Dees TO ALLOW A RESIDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT TO PERMIT A PRIVATE SCHOOL STUDENT TO PARTICIPATE IN AN INTERSCHOLASTIC ACTIVITY AT THE RESIDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS.
SB317 B. Johnson TO PROHIBIT AN INSTITUTION OF HIGHER EDUCATION FROM PARTICIPATING IN CERTAIN ACTIVITIES WITH A PROHIBITED FOREIGN PARTY.
SB352 Stone TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN PUBLIC ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY SCHOOLS; AND TO PROHIBIT ANTISEMITISM IN STATE-SUPPORTED INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION.
SB358 J. Dotson TO AMEND VARIOUS LAWS RELATED TO HIGHER EDUCATION.
Adjourn
Documents
| Title | Type | Pages | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Agenda — EDUCATION COMMITTEE - SENATE AND HOUSE MEETING JOINTLY WITH ADVANCED COMMUNICATIONS AND INFORMATION, Mar 5, 2025 | Agenda | 1 | Official source ↗ |
Speakers
Senator Jane English
Unverified
Senator Matt Stone
Unverified
Senator Jim Dotson
Unverified
Speaker 38
Senator Dan Sullivan
Unverified
Josh Silverstein
Unverified
Speaker 78
Speaker 84
Speaker 86
Speaker 87
Speaker 97
Speaker 101
Speaker 102
Speaker 103
Speaker 104
Senator Reginald Murdock
Unverified
Speaker 108
Speaker 111
Speaker 125
Senator Stephanie Flowers
Unverified
Speaker 93
Speaker 2
Speaker 163
Senator Breanne Davis
Unverified
Jake Robinson
Unverified
Speaker 174
Speaker 188
Speaker 199
Speaker 196
Speaker 207
Speaker 211
Senator Tyler Dees
Unverified
Speaker 242
Speaker 53
Speaker 170
Speaker 248
Speaker 249
Speaker 42
Speaker 250
Speaker 253
Speaker 254
Speaker 256
Speaker 278
Speaker 89