Public Transportation- House
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Bills discussed (2)
| Bill | Title | Sponsor | Status |
|---|---|---|---|
|
HB1244
Act 257
· 4 mentions in chapter, transcript, agenda
Matched: “HB1244 Haak TO AUTHORIZE THE ISSUANCE OF A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR AN…”
|
TO AUTHORIZE THE ISSUANCE OF A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR AN IDENTIFICATION CARD WITHOUT A PHOTOGRAPH … | Haak | Notification that HB1244 is now Act 257 |
|
HB1269
Act 188
· 3 mentions in transcript, chapter, agenda
Matched: “…sure you sign up. Without objection, we're going to move to House Bill 1269. Representative Payton, Representative Payton, go ahead and…”
|
TO ALLOW A COUNTY TO AUTHORIZE THE OPERATION OF GOLF CARTS ON CERTAIN COUNTY ROADS … | Payton | Notification that HB1269 is now Act 188 |
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Chair recognizes the quorum. Those wishing to speak for or against the bill, please make sure you sign up. Without objection, we're going to move to House Bill 1269. Representative Payton, Representative Payton, go ahead and you're prepared and present your bill. Thank you, Mr. Chair, committee. Last time
Representative David Hillman
Unverified
0:21
I was in front of the Transportation Committee, my bill died for lack of a motion. So just let me ask you for a motion and give me a mercy killing if you don't like it.
But no, as far as I know, 1269 has no known opposition at this point. It's a permissive bill that doesn't demand that counties do anything. But several years ago, we passed a bill that allowed cities that had golf courses and stuff, that by ordinance, they could allow those golf carts to operate on the city streets. This broadens it to where the county can do the same thing. They have to pass an ordinance. It can't be a state highway or a federal highway.
And it allows the county to pass the ordinance that golf carts could be operated. They can put restrictions on it if they want to at the county level. And we have several counties where golf courses are outside the city limits. So it's a big beneficial bill for that. And with that, I'd ask for a motion and a good vote. I'll take any questions you have. Any questions from committee members? Anyone
to speak for or against the bill?
Do I have a motion from committee? Representative Hillman, you recognize? Do pass. I have a motion. Do pass. Any discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed, same like sign. Hearing none, congratulations.
Representative David Hillman
Unverified
1:51
Thank you. Thank you, committee. I may file
another transportation bill after that. Representative Hack, are you prepared for HB 1244? You may proceed.
Speaker 12
2:12
Representative Payton before I present for the first time. Thank you for hearing me this
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
2:18
afternoon on House Bill 1244. This idea was brought to me by a city attorney from the town I live nearby, Gentry, Arkansas, and concurred with from the city attorney of Siloam Springs. There's a growing population of Amish and Mennonite community in western Benton County, and they have a specific issue of a religious prohibition against taking a photo of themselves.
and the city attorney of Gentry's wife is a driver for many of the Amish and Mennonite folks. They don't have a prohibition against driving. It's the photo on the driver's license that they have an issue with because of their religious beliefs, not to have a photo of a graven image. So this bill seeks to remedy that situation for them and allow this population of constituents to participate.
Many ways, they actually can't get a library card without a photo ID. They can't oftentimes at a pharmacy get a prescription for antihistamine without a photo ID. There's just a number of everyday tasks that they need a photo ID. But specifically, we would like to remedy that situation but also provide them the opportunity to have a valid driver's license. This bill would exclude if they want to vote. Most of them don't participate by voting in our elections,
but should they choose to do that, they would need to have a photo ID to vote as required by Arkansas state law, and they would need to have, for a federal identification number, a photo for the federal ID should they choose to have that. other than that that's the the main parts of this bill and 13 other states offer similar advantages to this population of Amish and Mennonites in particular the states of Ohio
Pennsylvania and Indiana have the largest populations in our in the country and if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer any questions. The police chiefs organization and the state police are here if you have any questions that they might be able to answer specifically. Both groups have not opposed this bill as written or if we needed to make any amendments based on your questions here today.
I have any questions from committee members? Representative Berry, you
Representative Stan Berry
Unverified
5:03
recognize? Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And one of the questions I have is
Speaker 17
5:08
dealing with, you know, there's always people going to try to skirt the rules. Yes. But when it comes down to the alcohol issue and the alcohol board. So have y'all discussed that with them? Because I can see an 18-year-old or young man or young lady saying, hey, here's a way out. We can, or you borrow an ID, somebody about the same height and weight and everything,
and you borrow their ID and you go buy beer. So has that been addressed
Speaker 19
5:38
with the Alcohol Control Board? Honestly, in all the research that I've done, I didn't see that brought up. The fraud was brought up as a potential concern that states have, but they found that
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
5:51
there's very low cases of fraud in this instance. Some states had where a church elder would sign a letter saying this person is a member of our congregation and they use that as part of their application process. Others sign an affidavit stating that they are a member of this religious
congregation. So there is a description as you mentioned of the person on the actual driver's license but that is a question that I have not seen or I have not talked to the bureau on that Nor did I see any
Speaker 14
6:24
mention of that in any of the other states, that that was
Representative Stan Berry
Unverified
6:30
an issue. Follow up, Mr. Chairman. Follow up. So I guess my other question would be, they're
Speaker 17
6:36
okay with having a federal ID with a photo on it?
Speaker 23
6:43
No, they're not okay with that. But should they so choose? So is
Speaker 25
6:48
there religious accommodations for that? should they so choose, they would have to have a photo ID, photo to get the federal ID, real ID.
Chair
Unverified
7:00
other questions? Representative Christensen, you recognize? Representative Hock, just for clarification, what does Ohio do to take care of this problem?
Representative Craig Christiansen
Unverified
7:06
This follows closely to their procedures. What
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
7:13
So it actually looks very much like our own driver's license.
It just omits the, it has like a little no photo and gives the description, hair, eye color, and weight, height, those things. Thank you. Has a signature and so on. Thank you. Yes. Representative Verhauer, are you recognized
Chair
Unverified
7:30
for a question? Yes, sir. Thank you. Ms.
Representative Johnny Rye
Unverified
7:33
Hock, there's two for you. Okay. This can't be used to purchase alcohol. Isn't that right? That would be correct, because they have
Speaker 19
7:40
to have it. Or cigarettes, I imagine, as well. Okay. And number two,
Representative Johnny Rye
Unverified
7:46
is there an impact on it?
Would it cost anything? So the bill states that it would
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
7:53
cost $5 to get a driver's license, which is actually less than, you know, currently to get a driver's license in the state of Arkansas. In one of the states, and I believe it was Pennsylvania, they actually charged more. They charged $80, maybe as somewhat of a deterrent for people requesting this to prevent maybe some of the fraud. I don't know that that would prevent someone that actually wanted to use one of these driver's licenses for fraudulent purposes,
but those are also options other states have chose. Representative Bryant, you recognize?
Chair
Unverified
8:29
the states that currently have this avenue for for that populace does it say no alcohol can be purchased with this or what what do the vendors that sell the product do when they're presented with an id that looks like a valid honestly the the bills that
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
8:44
we looked at our research were very similar to this that's how this was taken and i did not see in the studies
One DMV study by the state of Virginia, I didn't see anything that mentioned that. So I'm interested that you all have brought that up today. I had not seen any of that in the studies that we found. Representative Furman,
Representative Tony Furman
Unverified
9:11
you recognize? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Does this
Speaker 44
9:13
bill only open this option up to members of that religious community or for anybody who just doesn't want to have a
Speaker 12
9:20
picture on their license? Actually, this opens it up to anyone with a religious objection.
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
9:27
So it doesn't specifically say Amish or Mennonite, but it was specifically discussed by this community that needed that. What was kind of funny was in the Virginia law, it said VA for Virginia, and the actual title of the bill is Amish and Mennonite, no photo ID law. And I sent this to Representative Dotson, and when he saw VA no photo ID law, he said, no way, no way.
Veterans, no way, we're not going to have no photo ID for veterans. So I said, no, no,
Speaker 12
10:04
it's not about veterans, it's about Virginia. But we chose not to be specific to those in this
bill. Thank you. Any other questions from committee? Okay.
Representative Stan Berry
Unverified
10:18
Representative Berry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would be interested, I guess the Colonel and the majors, your subject matter experts
Speaker 17
10:25
on this, because I know we present law enforcement with
enough difficulties and challenges on the highways today. So I'd be interested in hearing what the major would say about how a young law enforcement officer on the road is difficult to Identify somebody when you pull them over anyway and to have a ID with no photo on it So the trooper that's here today grew up near Mena and was it
Speaker 19
10:52
was familiar with some of the Community and that but I'll leave it up to which would you
Speaker 14
10:58
would like to or both of you if you'd like to answer that
Speaker 50
11:03
Well, the major looks better. So please
Speaker 53
11:13
join us Major identify yourself then go Major Forrest Marks for the Arkansas State Police. Go ahead. I spoke with Representative Hack before the committee meeting began. And my first assignment was in MENA. I spent three years there. And I had the pleasure of encountering the Mennonite community there. They're an outstanding community. I understand after talking to her what she's trying to accomplish.
In regards to Representative Barry's comments, you know, with anything, there's a possibility. If a traffic stop is done on, say, a member of this populace that has this ID without a photo on it, our troopers would rely on the physical characteristics that are listed on the driver's license. That's about all we would have. but we do have other options we would get to probably get the individual out of the vehicle
get them on camera which is typically what we do if we have an encounter with a citizen that says say maybe they forgot their driver's license at home we'll get them on camera that way if there is a report later that hey that was my cousin that you actually stopped that gave my information we have that that on camera so we can go back if there's any kind of uh identity theft type issue go on so it plus we have fingerprint scanners now obviously a lot of the mennonite and
almost community probably won't have their fingerprints on file but that is another option that we
any other questions thank you mr chairman any other question from
Speaker 58
12:59
committee oh for representative pardon me i
Representative Denise Jones Ennett
Unverified
13:06
have one for representative hat Yes. Thank you, Chair. You recognize. Thank you, Chair. I have a question. Can you explain the voting again? You said earlier that they do not vote.
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
13:17
They normally do not participate in governments and exercise their right to vote. So what if they wanted to? If they did want to vote, then they would have to do the voter ID, photo ID. Okay. All right. Thank you. One other question someone asked me because we have security cameras everywhere. You go to Walmart and so on. So are they opposed to going to Walmart because their picture is being taken? And it was actually in one of the articles, one of the Mennonite population, who are basically like to be called plain. They're a plain population that they don't
seek to be attention. But you can't keep a bird from flying overhead, but you can keep it from building a nest in your hair, is what they mentioned. So they're not opposed to involuntarily having their picture made. They also get x-rays and MRIs, but they don't see that as a graven image of themselves, which is kind of the religious objection that they have to that. But it's a great question. And a lot of stoplights now have cameras that automatically take pictures
and so on. They understand that, but that's not them seeking out their own picture. Good question.
Speaker 65
14:43
Representative Furman. Thank you, Mr. Chair. How do you define deeply held religious beliefs for the
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
14:52
purpose of this bill? So in terms of their denomination, they're following basically the Ten Commandments that said, you shall not have any graven images before me. And they see a picture
as being a graven image, I believe in a number of Indian tribes. I don't know if they still do, but in many times past, that was a prohibition they
Speaker 12
15:16
also had of taking a picture of themselves and capturing their essence or spirit. So I would say those are examples of deeply held religious beliefs. Follow up? Follow up. So would
Speaker 65
15:28
there be anything preventing me from just starting my own religion and saying I don't want to do it and I could be a religion of one and have this idea
Speaker 12
15:39
without a picture made? That's a good question. I don't have the answer
Speaker 68
15:49
to that, so. Okay, thank you. Representative Hillman.
Representative David Hillman
Unverified
15:55
Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Hawke, the problem that I have with the bill is the deeply held religious belief thing. And I think it needs a better definition than that because me as an individual, I remember, I mean, I'm a Baptist,
but if I was a member of no religious organization and I went up to the, said I want an ID and I have a deeply held religious belief against having my picture on anything the government owns, would I be eligible to get that? Well, I don't know exactly
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
16:31
what line you're referring to in the bill, but on the first page, is that the one you're looking at? Yes. The requirement is either objectionable on the grounds of the licensee and sincerely held religious belief. Sincerely held, yes.
That prohibits an individual having his or her photograph taken. So your question of is it an organized religious, does it have to be an organized religious congregation in order to claim these rights? I know that under the IRS and things like that, people have tried to claim that they should be tax exempt because they are a church or a religious organization. I think it would be the same thing. They would have to prove what is the substantial evidence of such a sincerely held religious beliefs.
That's why I thought the letter from the actual bishop or the elder many times is what they're called in an Amish or Mennonite congregation. that letter kind of states this person is known as a member of that congregation. The state police chiefs, and I'll let you all answer if it's, but they did not feel like that in and of itself was necessary to add to this. Okay.
Representative David Hillman
Unverified
17:47
Could I have a follow-up, please? Follow-up.
I'm going to vote for the bill. I do pass on the bill. But I feel like that that is a weakness in the bill that you might consider at some time in the future, making it more plain that it has to be a recognized religion or a letter from a bishop or something like that. Colonel, you're
Speaker 77
18:12
recognized. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just to give you some clarity, I spoke with DF&A this morning about this. Currently, the law allows this to have your DL photo taken for religious belief.
But actually, I believe the representative's bill here strengthened where it requires an affidavit, where the current law does not require it. So, you know, the law is already on the books, but her bill actually strengthened that you had to have a sworn affidavit. And I'll be honest with you, most of the law enforcement, you know, talking to most of my troopers, they've never really seen a DL without a photo. But the law is already there to do that. But I think with her bill, it actually strengthened that you have to provide an affidavit. And my understanding from DF&A is if you're going to try that exception, they will have to come to the central office here in Little Rock.
That's the only place that is going to issue that type of license without a photo. That helps you with any of the questions.
Speaker 17
19:06
Representative Berry. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I failed to thank the colonel and the major for their service to protecting all of us and the safety and security citizens of Arkansas. but also so i had a question why are we going to charge five dollars more you know to me uh i don't personally don't think that that would be fair to charge them more for a license just because it
Speaker 14
19:28
doesn't have is it an administration actually it's less than what you would normally pay for a driver's license so it'd be less it would be
Speaker 81
19:47
less certainly so currently the thing it's 35 for a driver's license it's actually
Speaker 77
19:50
four it's actually 40 if you remember the this uh legislation legislation last uh session we moved it from four years to eight years it used to be 20 for four years and then we moved it to eight years so it's 40 for eight
Representative Stan Berry
Unverified
19:59
years okay and follow up mr chairman follow up last one so how is this
Speaker 17
20:03
going to affect the enhanced licensing uh is it going to change anything on that because you know you have to take everything you own to the revenue office anymore to get an enhanced driver's license. Is it going to have an impact on that process at all? It will not. No? Okay. No. Thank you. And for most
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
20:21
of these folks, when they have to go and show, they take their birth certificate, they take all
Speaker 12
20:26
those documents with them. So this will be able to allow them not to have to take all that identification with them everywhere.
Representative Johnny Rye
Unverified
20:33
Representative Vrye, you recognize? Representative Hogg, I don't know if you can get it in there, but I would want to make
sure that that identification is in no form or fashion resembling an Arkansas driver's license. Thank you.
Any other questions from committee? Anyone here to speak for or against the bill?
Okay, Representative Hawk, are you ready to close your bill?
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
21:07
I am closed for the bill and motion for a do
pass. I have a motion to do pass. Do I have any discussion? Any discussion? Recognized?
Representative David Ray
Unverified
21:21
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. When I, when I, I apologize, I missed the first part of the presentation and I was running a bill on a different committee. But when I walked in, there was a discussion about what constitutes deeply or sincerely
held religious beliefs. So I just wanted to offer one comment on that. I'm in no way purporting to be an expert in constitutional law, but I know that there have been numerous Supreme Court decisions, cases over the years, whether it involves conscientious objectors, whether it involves Native American tribes claiming exemption to federal drug laws for purposes of peyote
and things along those lines. So while I'm not familiar with all of the jurisprudence in this area, I know the Supreme Court has a standard that they've applied over the years that does help determine what sincerely held religious beliefs are. So I just wanted to offer that as a comment. Any other discussion
from the committee? Okay, if there's not, all in favor of passing the bill, say aye.
Aye. All opposed, same like sign. Hearing none, congratulations, Representative Hawke. Your bill passes. I don't think there's
any other business to come before the committee today. Do we have anything else to go on the agenda for Thursday as of yet? We have one bill for Thursday. If we can, you think we can get our photo done Thursday? If she's got a time available, we'll try to get a photo, so try to get everyone done so we can do that early.
But if not, I'll announce if we're going to meet or not. But thank you again, committee, for being here. Appreciate your time. You're dismissed. Hey, Judge, you did a good job.
Agenda
REGULAR AGENDA Number Sponsor Subtitle
HB1244 Haak TO AUTHORIZE THE ISSUANCE OF A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR AN IDENTIFICATION CARD WITHOUT A PHOTOGRAPH IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.
HB1269 Payton TO ALLOW A COUNTY TO AUTHORIZE THE OPERATION OF GOLF CARTS ON CERTAIN COUNTY ROADS BY ORDINANCE; TO DECLARE AN EMERGENCY.
Documents
| Title | Type | Pages | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Agenda — PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION- HOUSE, Feb 2, 2021 | Agenda | 1 | Official source ↗ |
Speakers
Representative Mike Holcomb Chair
Unverified
Representative David Hillman
Unverified
Speaker 12
Representative Joshua Paul Bryant
Unverified
Representative Stan Berry
Unverified
Speaker 17
Speaker 19
Speaker 14
Speaker 23
Speaker 25
Speaker 28
Chair
Unverified
Representative Craig Christiansen
Unverified
Speaker 32
Representative Johnny Rye
Unverified
Representative Tony Furman
Unverified
Speaker 44
Speaker 50
Speaker 53
Speaker 55
Speaker 58
Representative Denise Jones Ennett
Unverified
Speaker 65
Speaker 68
Speaker 77
Speaker 81
Representative David Ray
Unverified