City, County & Local Affairs Committee- House

Sixty seven she said she did not get or amendment done so we can pull that off the agenda today we'll start today with House Bill thirteen thirty one who represented team million are you ready. Okay identify yourself and any guests that you have and you may proceed I'm Representative John Milligan Mr chairman appreciated Committee thank you all for the Centerville. The IMPLAN introduce yourself thank share my name is Lenny Richmond with the Arkansas Municipal League. In the house bill thirteen thirty one it allows the second class city of it allows them in the in the the offices of Marshall recorder treasurer recorder treasurer it allows them to call a special election if they so choose right now they can appoint that's one thing that this bill does other thing it does it provides a mechanism for the incorporated us towns to fill the vacancy of elected Marshall but now the statues that it that it does not have a mechanism for that vacancy and also incorporated city it allows the allows the mayor to be he can already vote is a first class cities second class city can but it allows him to fill the coral for the meeting. so that we'll take any questions or. Okay is there any questions. Yes represent college you're recognized. Thank you so I guess my question is just on the special elections they would be authorizing for treasurer recorder or recorder treasure that would be new rights and so helpful is some kind of walk through the cost of that for me because I know special elections obviously come with some cost how many people would fall under this category to be an estimate on how much as a cost and and who bears as costs. Absolutely thank you service that portion only applies to cities of the second class or were a smaller portion of our municipalities I would guess since the gas about a hundred of them and when the costs are borne it's by the municipality they'll pay their pro rata share of it if there is any other I'm going cost with it if anyone outside of the election the same time sense of the city council that point can make the decision could save we want to pay for the special election to have the people vote on this if they don't want to they can. Just appoint and forego the cost efficiency. Okay represent Warren you're recognized for a question. Just a quick question second class city we defined that police. Yes I believe the second class cities between five hundred and twenty five hundred citizens. Thank you any other questions. The represented Brian yes Sir thank you thank you Mr chairman Representative John at the present time how is that done if there is a vacancy Sir. at this at this time they can they of they appoint them the second class cities. With this with this will lead this will let them have a special election if they if they see fit to. Thank you Sir thank. Okay any other questions. Seeing none we have we don't have anyone signed up to speak for against this bill. Are you closing your bill yes Sir Mr chairman all right what's the favor of the committee. Okay we have a motion to pass. Any discussion on the motion. Saying none all in favor say aye. Those opposed say no. Regulations you have passed your bill. Okay represented Paul H. H. B. twelve eighty. Are you prepared to present your bill. Okay would you all identify yourself for the record please good afternoon I'm Representative Delia hawk District ninety one. John workers in Arkansas in accounts of the Arkansas Municipal League okay represented out you can proceed. Thank you chairman fights. We are seeking just laws that's our purpose for being here. Justice requires right ends and right means to the end so the goal of this bill bill is not secrecy that seeks a right means to a right goal are right and. There's three components that I wanted to bring to light. As a legislator is the first thing we need to know is knowledge. The problem was brought to my attention and research indicates that this is a big issue for other cities and counties in Arkansas. Knowledge requires in addition to that understanding we need to understand is it fair what is fair what is honest what is a right way for a city to conduct negotiations and discussions. Many of us understand that if we have a project and the budget is for two point two million dollars many times the bid surprisingly comes in at or below or close to the amount in this case two point two million dollars if it's non it's often not competitive. So we're looking for wisdom here based on knowledge and understanding of what actually happens in this actions between cities and opportunity economic opportunities. For a a as we will here today is a very important for our democracy and I will always stand to defend it. Honesty and transparency are basic to fairness. Fauria and fairness however are not mutually exclusive. We can have both and operate in the best interest of the public while keeping the letter and the spirit of the AFL outlaw. Information separated from understanding and wisdom are raw materials for bad decisions and chaos. So just to conclude before I let others speak in opposition and in favor of this bill I'm seeking a write in. A right means for the right reason. Right ends are nurtured by right reasons worked out through appropriate means. And with that I will. Let the legal counsel for in the municipal league give us some more knowledge and understanding. Yes thank you very much obviously day to day basis we deal with the F. ally and we are we love the F. O. R. and what I do all the FOR every day I encourage our cities to not only by by the letter a law but the spirit of the law every day but with the FY sometimes great is it is there are times that we see challenges that come from that the use the FLIR and with this one in particular situation we're talking about economic development that the city has to undertake to think about and discuss and and and fill out the best option for this for the citizens of the city that we find that the the FY is restrictive in a way that we think that it could be improved for us to again not just not to eliminate the need for the F. a lot but to modify such that we can use tools a little bit the little bit better for our citizens and for the city to make it make a better decision first I want to say though is that this does not eliminate the need for votes to be had in public there's no votes that can be taken in an executive session they have to be done and public so any expenditure of money any hard and fast decision has to be done in public and this issue comes for comes to us from a number of different cities in fact over the last two days are over the weekend I've spoken to Texarkana hot spring spring to Fort Smith about the challenges that not being able to discuss an economic development project in executive session causes challenges for for those cities whether it is having to disclose information if the developer does not want to disclose or having to to disclose notions of what's what what what what is a good a negotiation tactic what's a good us a a good offer to make on something again whatever happens has to be done or whatever formal action taken has to be done in open public but it's cause problems for Texarkana in the past because problems for hot springs and and when the question that we've gotten over the the course of this process which I appreciate every question the task force the coalition has brought to us is it name us as situation in. Talking about the situations Texarkana has a specific one fading on me about a lot of city say we can't really talk to you about it because that's the whole point I mean can't make all these things public so would like to do is be able to go back in executive session to discuss things that are economic developments sensitive that are part of economic development sensitive and a big reason that we thought about this idea is that the jobs act I call the jobs act already has exemptions for documents that would give an advantage to competitors or matters or at our DA consider maintained by an economic development service provider related economic development project or records maintained by the next county or county relates to an economic development projects planning site location expansion operations or product development marketing the documents related to these projects are already exempt entity if a lot we just would like the option option to go back into an executive session and discuss these things that the developers of a the economic the developers RT that don't have to accept to to give over to the F. a lot and just have an open conversation one of the things that we've heard we talk to the task force the coalition who are who are against the bill and I'm sure to come up here and say it is what you can do is talk to city council members one on one about these issues not by VOL eight four year what we have like to do is just go back together and allow that free flow of ideas because two counts members don't can't talk about this so then go back in executive session have a free flow of ideas with these documents and talk about these documents that's really the idea to to allow us more ability to really analyze economic development projects about you know getting over the the the competitive advantage of somebody if we talk about I talked about in public again the the final decision has to be made in public so we're not trying to keep that up out of the public sphere. One thing that we we looked at two as to how other states have dealt with this Texas Oklahoma Missouri all have after a while not Mississippi to all have that a lot laws that are least close to this or even broader than this and so we look at those entities or look to those states and realized you know it worked it works there hopefully it can work here we're not trying to do something you know brand new these are issues that have already been done in Texas Oklahoma Mississippi Missouri and I'll just point to Mississippi real quick when I'm asking for this of Mississippi's law is not exactly a session for the transaction of business in discussion discussion running for prospective purchase sale or leasing the bonds very broad and were willing to work on whatever language we can to make this more palatable to folks but you were not looking again we're not looking to. Up in the ForRent looking to to put it definitely FOR we like the F. O. R. we just think there's ways that we can you know utilize our allow us to have more tools special comes economic development that's what would be cities like this bill support this bill and obviously hope this bill passes. Okay. Represent all the you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman and I think this is really for you could you refresh my memory. Because I don't recall when the governmental entities doing the an agenda for a meeting and they go into executive session or the are they required to put on the printed agenda meeting why they're going into executive session I don't know they have to put in the digital age gender itself we often do but you do have to articulate exactly why you're going into executive session or eggs follows yes orally but not on the written agenda is that correct is understanding yes Is required to be orally by the city's due to marriage and I think the with Patterson is not in that he does but it is required to be overly at very least I don't there's not a requirement to be on the agenda necessarily. One more follow up please yes go ahead miss Robinson do you think that it would help this bill if if there would be a a section added that when you're going into executive session for whatever reason on the written agenda it could say for discussion of economic development under this server or whatever that may give more notice and maybe a little more clarity to people who were watching those agendas to know that we're just not say we're one and executive session be there you'll find out why. Do you think that might be a good idea to do just questions answered I did to me thank members that's all I have right now thank you for. Any other questions. Mr chairman medical go ahead. Yes represent Russia yes Sir John if this bill passes the only time that the attorney can go into executive session would be to discuss the situation with economic development is that the only time yes Sir thank you Sir thank you judge represent got three recognized. Thank you Mr chair. Fifty three this is for either of you and that maybe Mr well person you mentioned that there are already some document exempt under FOIA under the jobs act which is referenced in the bill is that correct yes ma'am and so I guess I'm wondering if there are other fully exemptions to just general economic development projects or investment opportunities which I represent the bill I understand kind of the compatibility between the job that documents in an executive session but here the bill also laid out any economic development or investment opportunity do do those opportunities also have a four exemption now on those documents not one for cities on now but no. I don't believe so I stand corrected by Mister Richmond but I don't believe so. Okay represented Brian to recognize Mister Robinson. And in one of these propose executive session for this law passes and sessions are approved for economic development purposes there any tax incentives or land concessions or matching funds from ATC. Are they good being discussed in relation to a specific. Subject with the specific city center industry or they more generic in terms of this is what we're looking to do does anybody have any ideas. I mean I have never accident exactly session about how about this obviously but I would think the way I look at it would be very much specific to that that specific issue that answers your question but we're not talking we're not going back there to talk the land is never not going back there to talk about broad ideas adopt talk about this particular development project is public Mr. So it was so. In one of the sessions we you would in essence be. Discussing that the advantage of one individual over another and then bringing those ideas out to the public to to discuss what you found to be. The cohesive agreement among there were elected leaders yes once an agreement was sort of thought about and it would be taken the council worth taking accounts when the public media said this is the idea we have all in favor say aye opposed say nay so the the downside of doing that in public is that other parties that may have better ideas are better better thoughts about the process would be to colluded from that I think the. I think the real the real issue if I can answer this question. I think the real issue is more if we discussing about what you want to what an economic developer is offering the city and economic development is not want to put that in and in the paper which has happened cuts of one of examples I've seen you wanna talk about the merits of that proposal and talk about whether how the city should react to it or how the city should act act toward it but again if if there is a decision made on that proposal if you take in front of the the body and the public in general the public the public at large the dancer question. The currently that would happen just between that party and say the the county judge or the mayor it happened between the executive branch in the proposed developer and then there's no limitations on the executive branch individual talking to individual council members individual. J. P.'s as far as I'm concerned for you doesn't doesn't prohibit that right we can't pull them so you can't you can't go to the the council member and say here's the information here the idea are you gonna vote for it we we officer cautioned we say no to that not coming up so early but not not pull them but to get everybody on the same page right in in put that item on the agenda for a public discussion on that activity right and if that if that public discussions had that the problem that we're finding is those publications can't be had because it developed their retirement information that would give it a competitor an advantage or a better a better advantage or something like that so that's why those discussions it it's it's very challenging to have those discussions amongst the board of the council in public because it it could give a competitive advantage or better and advantage. Okay. It does represent buddy you're recognized. I guess going back to this to the dish for clarity serving on economic development foundation and in a small town that the process that that you describe where you go individually to council members to discuss the project or a prospects come to town a lot of times That that's going to provide a service and then then another provider and and there's competing be it you're you're speaking specifically about a a individual economic development projects project or prospect and and those all at a avenues and and all information I think would would have to be discussed in that in that executive session with any incentives from the state or any kind of consideration given from the city or from the county and at that point I I think your just a straight by that I mean it's it's just circumventing for you all the way around and those discussions in small towns that information's no it's it's most the time in any city its own the story it's out there being talked at the coffee shop so in an open council meeting it is where it should be discussed and if it's going to be discussed so I don't know if there was a question in there but I guess I guess coming through the political. So I I thank you. I would just that I would just to respond to that that I think what we're talking about as an interim step where there's before decisions are made where information can be shared and information can be gathered back from those involved in that process and I have a mayor here that came down today from northwest Arkansas that competes in silence springs with Oklahoma and Missouri and that corner of the State and trying to get business and economic development into Northwest Arkansas on the western side of Benton County you hear a lot about the eastern side of Benton county in the corridor but there's a lot of small towns along western Benton county that compete with Oklahoma Missouri that and Texas and Texarkana down below with their surrounding states that there's It competitive advantages for those economic opportunities to go to those other states. Just because of this one one element right here that we're asking for is there. For honest discussion in executive session during a preliminary discussion of an opportunity to be had is there a purpose and a good outcome from that and I don't know if city administrator Patterson would like to speak on any specifics glad to have I don't know if we're ready for that but glad to have him come and share as well as to where this really hits the rubber meets the road. Okay represented all the you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman Wilkinson and represent a hawk. If I'm reading this bill right now have some probably knowledge that maybe other people might not have having lived in Texarkana my entire life and have seen economic development projects go to the Texas side of town because they could discuss those in In an executive session but they do put that out on their agenda is to that that what with the purposes I guess my question really is in this may come to you Mr Wilkinson could you deal with that on a daily basis. Of. It appears to me and and correct me if I'm wrong in the way I'm reading this that this would actually. Facilitate a better communication than that one on one and make the public at least the public would know that this is the discussion of this happening and not those one on one at the coffee shop or behind closed door conversations that I suspect we all know that happens but we like to think it doesn't happen do you see this is really facilitating more of an ability for the public to know what is on an agenda of. As far as at least the general topic as opposed to let's talk about this as we go have coffee this morning. Yes I respect. Yes I would agree specified especially for put on the agenda the specific nature or the specific discussion is going to be had I I I agree that. Follows yes good represented park would you be interested in amending that at some point in time to include this language in an agenda okay thank you. The represented baby you're recognized. Thank you just a question for both with the open discussion of that economic development project in an open council meeting your TD more information being provided to the public and to the voters and electric are with that executive session provide more information to the public. I think the fact that we're we're we're encouraged are told that the way it the way you can deal with this is have one on one conversation accounts members I think especially put on the agenda the specific nature of the conversation. I think that if you I think you actually buy grew this of annually to more discussion about it because right now we're we're not having these discussions not always having these discussions at all. Yes. My my question was specific to the public and the electorate and not the council members. So would provide further information be provided to the public in an open discussion during a council meeting then the private discussions of the council in executive session. I think if you put on the agenda and again we've never seen how this works so well obviously we're looking into the future but if you put in the Gen in a small town dollar general is is is coming to town or thinking about coming to town we're going to go into executive session to determine you know how best to incentivize that or and and that may not be great example but whatever the project is and in the council knows okay a third back there talking about the development coming in and then when they come out and you know there have an action or don't have an action to take I see the point that that would actually increase public participation and if not again we're I'm looking into the future to try to stay in this so I can't tell you specifically how it worked but I see that argument for sure and again this is the this idea is to allow discussions to be had by the council and or the board and then to you know free flow ideas revenues one on one conversations and then we get to the public at when you get to the open meeting I think it would facilitate more information I can see that happening where more information is spread because the council knows more more about it. Okay represent Cavenaugh you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I just wanna make sure understand what we're asking is that I preliminary meeting be able to go into executive session when you have an opportunity for an economic development project and because the fact that a lot of these economic development projects require confidentiality they require you to sign a confidentiality that you will not disclose certain informations. Or you just don't have an opportunity to have this economic development and this would allow the council to go in and say we have this opportunity this is what we've got they can discuss it and then they can go to the public and they can have a public meeting after that and discuss what was actually told because I will be honest with you there there are times when you do an economic development that there's a lot of stuff you can't disclose and I would say that if you hear it at the the reason you here it asked the coffee shops you hear everything and that is because it's a one on one meeting and so they don't understand the confidentiality and those one of those little matings that and get out and people hear about it at coffee shops cost rule Arkansas. And I would say urban Arkansas to lots of economic opportunity specially when you're lying around Oklahoma Missouri Texas because they're not confined to not being able to discuss it and losing that confidentiality is that what this is designed to help with certain part yes that's our report that. Represent college you're recognized for a question thank you so is economic development project or investment opportunity are those defined anywhere that would be relevant for this section and if not what do you guys see is the limits of that because as I look at it economic development could be anything that brings in money that's an opportunity to be anything we spend money because that's pretty much everything that a city does so tell me where the the the limits are of this if you could. Well it is so that's good great question one that the after the task force the coalition brought up one acknowledged it I don't think there is a definition necessarily on that and I was actually spending most the week in trying to figure out if there's a better way to make tighten this up so because obviously we don't want to have the the FY to be abused and so if if there's a way to to tighten this language at work were we understand that yeah we we we heard that concern things in an op ed this morning to certainly the Senate concerning or open the ways that we can limit that because there is no definition right now for investment opportunity or economic development project so obviously we're very we're I'm I'm interested I I hope that's alright with bridging of hot to to look and how to take that language job. Okay any other questions. Yes representante you're recognized for a question. You referenced other states having this kind of policy do they have the definition. anywhere in their legislation that defines that. You know I honestly I just looked up that the FY statutes that talked about this I didn't go back to see what for instance in in taxes it's to discuss a deliberate regarding commercial or financial information of the body is received from business prospect I didn't look to see what financial information Homes yes Oklahoma's. It says Actually it's all all not all non profit foundations board that's all of all the ones that are affected by this per. for purposes of conferring on matters pertaining to economic development including the transfer of property financing or the creation of a proposal to entice a business to remain or to locate within their jurisdiction if public disclosure of the matter discussed would interfere with the development of projects or services or if the public disclosure would violate confidential confidentiality of the business so that that language made sense to us that we anyway but but as far as what economic development means an opponent I didn't look at that but I can course. Okay here are the questions. All right seeing none will go to of public input right now public testimony and if you will if the Love. Please step down and we'll go over there Representative but a hawk you just stay right there. Okay hi there is has gone were we're going to ask those who is opposed and will alternate between I'll miss your name up and then you come up and straighten it out when I get there okay. All right the first up we're going to have Ellen credit. I didn't get close to. You're against the bill correct yes I am and Ellen craft and I'm the owner and the and the publisher of the passing county record and Huntsville Arkansas and I had the honor and ten in the Arkansas freedom of information act task force last session and I sit on the freedom and information act coalition at this M. and and I have for a number of years. The first thing I want to do is that you know this the we celebrated recently the fiftieth anniversary of the freedom of information act and I want to read to you the Legislative intent that is codified in twenty five ninety one of two. It is vital in a democratic society that public business be performed in an open and public manner so that the electors shall be advised of the performance of public officials and the decisions that they reach in public activity. That's the intent this bill goes directly against that and I know we talked about I heard Mr Wilkinson talk about the free flow of information. This bill allows people to go into executive session and have that free flow of information but without the public knowing what was said in that executive session M.. I'm I'm the owner and publisher of the newspaper in Huntsville they do talk about it at that the crossbow restaurant over a Cup of coffee and they know what's going on and so it's good for our citizens to be able to hear what our representatives have to say about that. At this bill and the that freedom of information act is really focused and when you go into executive session on personnel issues I get that that's a public that's a privacy matter you know if the teacher is in trouble we don't want to hear from the school board what's going on with that we get it but we're talking money for talking economic development what area can be more important to a little town of Huntsville Arkansas to Texarkana or to little rock Arkansas Economic Development Representative Collins apology for your point it is a defined what the bill says the bill says any other economic development project or investment opportunity so last month a covered city council in Huntsville. That's what they talked about a bank account thank you can't is an economic in its entirety and economic activity they're coming up with a new bank account because they need public expenditures from that particular bank account for projects that they're working on they discussed how much money within that bank account they discuss what they're gonna do with that bank account and they discuss how they can spend that money so that's what they could have done executive session we would never it would been oblivious staff I have heard the testimony from the task force and I applaud you for your time there but the testimony has been and will go into executive session we'll talk about it will come out will vote that's a rubber stamp that is not what the freedom and information act envisions we do not rubber stamp that and I've heard a lot of people say well the public can give their opinion they can speak up and tell you what they think that's great that's first amendment that's not for yeah for yes Is hearing what you're electors are doing for you as having public input after you know what they're doing so if It thank you came out of executive session and say do we have public input number one we don't know we don't know what you discussed in executive session and number two we want to hear what you have to say the citizens can call up their city council members in telling what they have to say thank you need to hear as a collective group from their city council members so I would end quickly with what is the intent of forty and it is vital in a democratic society that public business be performed in an open and public manner so that the electors shall be advised of the performance of public officials and the decisions that are reached in public activity based on that I would respectfully ask for your vote against this thank you okay would you be willing to ask any answer any question I would love to try okay does anyone have any questions. Okay seeing nine we we appreciate it thank you so much. Okay is now speaking for the bill Chris Pauline's Association gangs. Thank you Mr chairman thank you forget the last name right I respect that. That doesn't always happen so I'll be totally transparent and tell you why the counties are here the counties don't have a whole lot of economic development going on I do think the texture Canakkale ace was mentioned earlier and that was a joint project recently between the city and the county however we do have some and we we don't know exactly how much this would benefit us but we know that it would and it's going to increase over time as we move forward so It I live in Benton and there's a place out Hong Kong go road called the Salem dairy bar and they've got some of the best cheeseburgers milkshakes delivery in your life. And if you drive by there you'll see a line of pickup trucks out front that's a good sign that you need to pull over and check the place out and so the Municipal League and working with Representative hawk and on this bill is as attractive as those pickup trucks outside the Salem Derry bar for us we want to take a look at this because we want our counties to have every tool in the toolbox that they can have to help with economic development on. Now with the balance of that is we also want them to be as transparent as they can be and we teach them that within the association of Arkansas counties constantly we work with them we train them on for a we hope is that they all do the very best we hope that there are two J. page at that coffee shop we're talking about because at a public meeting we don't want that. However this is not just an issue about transparency this is an issue of timing. In these economic bills that will come at you more so for the municipalities but I think it's going to happen more and more over time for the county's. Involve really strict timelines really strict inside information that doesn't need to be let out to public discourse until those projects are consummated and so one of the reasons that I think this is important and I think this discussion today is very valuable is that we can learn what those important areas are and what we need to be looking and I know represent of hawks and a great job putting the bill out there so that we can have this discussion and I I thank you very much for that. so I don't have a whole lot to an online specifics within counties we don't deal in economic development as much but we do support having this tool in the toolbox in a very limited sense of years when it might be needed to help us make something better in our home counties so with that Mister chair I'd be happy to answer any questions. Any questions. Seeing none who dismissed thank you Richard. Speaking against the bill Luke's story. Yes I'd like to for my time to my members that I can speak to my. Okay. All right the next in line is Neil Gardner. Blattner skews me. What is it is a device you set up for the record please and who you represent. Thank you Mr chairman and my mother would be proud of the way you said it. My name is Neil can I think this offer yes certainly because also fox my glasses up. My name is Neil Glessner I'm a past president of the Arkansas broadcasters association I am broadcasters appointee to the task force the freedom of information task force and broadcaster from hot springs but I'm also the sales manager kind of a dual role down the road to a talk show so I ask Mister chairman committee members thank you so much for being here and let let me point out that also on the task force over the discussion of this bill back on January twenty ninth I also thought wanna make sure it's a note for the record that the media is not opposed to economic development we make our livelihood by selling advertising not only do we like economic development is crucial to our future success and growth but when it comes to economic development and government transparency we don't for a moment believe that they are mutually exclusive so I will summarize if I may my opposition at three points first in the task force meeting last Friday the twenty ninth we have supporters of this bill if they could cite an example or a city lost an economic development project because they could not meet in executive session we ask that of the municipally Representative and of Mr Patterson and both answered in the negative they may have been able to find one since the twenty ninth but they didn't have one that was so top of mind that it came to the forefront one of those who spoke on behalf of the bill said he favored the measure to make his job as an economic development more convenient is reasoning as we've discussed here today that if he wanted parameters of what he could offer a prospect he had to speak to city board members individually and noted and I paraphrase that being able to talk to them all at one time an executive session would just make his job easier I don't believe we should eliminate the long favored believing government transparency for just convenience and the The vote in public after the. Liberation in private is hardly transparent my second point executive session is denoted is clearly set forth for the sole purpose of dealing with personal matters the only exceptions I could find were discussions of things like the security of public drinking water which of course of a strong public policy basis. To prove this bill would be to blow a hole in the freedom of information act I believe and I have little doubt that others would seek to widen that gap in transparency by created created by the approval of this measure today you have before you the opportunity to send a clear message regarding the legislatures intend to continue to protect the FY a there's no public policy basis for approving the legislation proposed in our opinion let me name a couple of companies by the way Amazon Mars Pet Care Cavenaugh Butterball SGL carbon Nestle in my home town veranda boats all of these companies chose to either come to Arkansas or expand in Arkansas without any executive sessions to talk about their coming. In third as I discuss the task force meeting the exception being sought in great part. To discuss in private what incentives financial or otherwise could be offered to solicit an economic development project under consideration clearly violates the intent of the freedom of information act. Government deliberations regarding the expenditure of public funds demand the sunlight of transparency not the cloak of darkness and this bill ask for permission to use executive session not only for economic development but there's been mention to quote the bill's language or any other investment opportunity I submit that with language that brought none of us knows what that means when they go into executive session and again our history has been that no discussion for use of public funds should be permitted in executive session it needs the transparency of open government. The legislature constitutional officers including attorney's general for years and the media have worked together for decades to protect for you. That is why I thank you at the start for my comments for on going legislative support of open government the FY sends a message at its core that people should know the reasoning of the decisions of how their money is spent tax dollars of course. So do not today I beg you weaken that transparency a favor and vote of this measure I say is on the wrong side of open government it's on the wrong side of transparency and it's on the wrong side of your trust in the people of Arkansas to understand decisions because they're able to access the debate or access the debate and discussion that led to the outcome. In summary. I'm sure you've heard this before one time Arkansas football coach Lou Holtz city live by three rules the right thing do the best you can do and show people you care. I urge you to take your cue from the coach the right and best thing you can do is to protect the FY eight and you'll be showing the people of Arkansas you care about open government so please send a message that the FY a freedom of information act will not be weakened on your watch I urge a no vote on this bill and I'm happy to answer any questions thank you again. Any questions represented rider recognized yes Sir If the only thing that would change year on top of the the way that things are going to just present time. Is an attorney could attend is that not right Sir no Sir my understanding and and someone can correct me is that right now a city board cannot go into executive session to say Hey guys let's talk about building this road because we can attract this business that's expenditure of public funds and is strictly prohibited in executive session. Okay any other questions. Yes. Yes Mister lander I know you've been to many of those meetings at the at the city now have you seen where the city council is come together it's been said that the discussion can happen after the meeting if you seen where they come out of a meeting so under that and they They have the power to cut that discussion to a very slim margin to keep the public from represented McGrew if they're going to do that I don't get invited. So I I don't know the answer to that thank you clearly again by the F. ally if if after the city board adjourns three them get together to talk specifically about something they discussed. That the public meeting and that shouldn't happen without notice. Any other questions. Seeing none you're dismissed thank you for your testimony. Right speaking for the bill of Lenny Richmond. Okay. All right the John Wilkerson. Eight hundred okay interesting all right will return back to the list of those who opposed. Robert Stein box. Okay I'll pass over. and come back doing. Of. Steve listen part. Pad. Okay Robert Robert. Thank you Robert if you would please state your name and who you represent for the record please absolutely thank you I hope you can hear me well enough of my name is Robert Steinberg I'm here on behalf of the four year coalition I am also a for that task force member you've already heard from our prior the chairperson on the for your task force Ellen carafe is that one still hearing center. I would hold up the book if you will. You see the book. The book you may not be able to read it from that distance it's call the Arkansas freedom of information act it's a treatise it's an explanation of the law. For practitioners for anybody the Supreme Court has cited for that book in every for your opinion that is written at least in the last twenty five years. On the last name listed on that block from the co author of that book. You've heard a lot about the specifics of the bill. And the lack of specificity in the bill as well. I'd like to talk albeit just briefly. A higher level and more abstract level. First there are three things that require work of each of you of all of us every single day in our lives. Democracy. Transparency in marriage. I'm not married so I am we have to work to two of them. And transparency is hard work. So when people tell you well this makes it harder for us that's not a bug that's a feature. That means that you and all rights and every taxpayer who has a crowbar thank you do was wallet by the government every year. Gets to see where all that money is going. And so this bill incidently drafted in the fashion in which you can drive a truck through that's how broad it is this is not the camel's nose under the tent as the saying goes this is three home server to hunt the Campbell weighing down on the Persian rug in your tent. This will blow all day in the freedom of information act. Why do we have this bill because every legislative session the Municipal League shops around to find the problem that it can shoot another hole in to the freedom of information act and they come up and I have heard them to repeat their statement we're for transparency right before the shoot them in the shower of the person. I have never seen the Municipal League all for a bill that in any way enhances transparency I have seen them represent municipalities on a routine basis and put up roadblocks they're turning over records. And I see no more checks to attorneys when they realize they are losing. So this bill is the one for the Municipal League to send money. Taxpayer money incidently because you know how they're funded after all you have a budget government bureaucrats to take government tax dollars. We would organization excuse me. To lobby the government and now you see them here there's nothing nothing surprising about how the equation works the bottom line is this is a bill that is a nightmare for the freedom of information act I've heard no data to support the notion that executive session is killing economic development development. None I've heard the accusation over and over again. And why do we have the accusation because transparency is hard democracy is hard and I'm told marriage is hard to. Please for those of you who are married and I suspect it's most if not all of you here. About that and what kind of work you want to put into Transparency permit it should be on par with that. With that I'll take any questions that you have otherwise I will return to my cave. Of protection and leave you to your sound deliberation. Any questions. Thank you thank you very much appreciate. Okay I don't believe we have anybody else to speak for the bill of the Mister chairman may I ask you know city administrator silo from Salem springs bill Patterson could speak. He's driven all the way down this morning from. Okay yes please come to the table and State your name and who you represent. Thank you I apologize for being late I'm not getting my name on the list my name is Philip Patterson I'm the city administrator and solemn springs first I want to echo Mr lines I grew up in Benton Arkansas the secondary bar is a great place. I've been the city administrator in silence springs for five years I worked in the city of Malmo in the nineties I left the state worked out of state for a few years and then came back in twenty fifteen for the city administrator position in silence springs I have seven bosses. Eight if you count the mayor but in the city administrator former government the mayor doesn't have a vote. I can tell you in my opinion this is. This bill we have a difference of opinion on transparency. Yes I can go and meet individually with everyone of my board members and talk about an economic development project. It may be since twenty seventeen cities now are able to invest in economic development projects defined by that bill if you if you use that definition that is a very specific definition of what an economic development project is it allows cities to invest it would allow the city to buy property for an economic development project. I can't ask my board. What are you willing to pay for that land if we want to buy land for economic development project outside of the public crown. They might say well Philip it's the appraised at seventy five thousand dollars so off from sixty thousand dollars but you have the right to go up to seventy five what they say that in an open meeting guess what the price of the land is it seventy five thousand dollars. If I ask each one individually I get seven different answers. Maybe not quite seven but what I can tell you is that it is been my experience when those seven people are able to get together and discuss the economics of the project and discuss the ideas about the benefit to the city they then can collectively give me some marching orders were I can go out and negotiate. An economic development project economic development incentives that I can bring back to the board in a public forum. And be able to have that open public discussion before they vote on any particular action. For for a city administrator it is really instructing a negotiator it's since giving me some instructions this that would say based on the information that the developer of the project has that is already exempt from FOIA. I can present that information to them in that executive session rather than one on one. They can discuss that they can give me some marching orders they can come back out in the public and yes ma'am in our situation we have an executive session it says on there on the agenda what the what the purpose of the executive session is they announce it before they go in and when they come out if they collectively come to the same consensus there will be a statement there will be public a chance for public to speak. And then there will be a motion and typically the board will discuss all the pros and cons at that point. The. I don't believe this will blow for you out of the water. I work around for you today because I go and have an individual conversation with those members the public doesn't know I'm having an and the individual conversation with those members. If we had a single meeting where we can say yes where you're going into executive session to discuss an economic development project. At least the public knows that there is discussion being had about an economic development project we still may not be able to say that it's you know expansions of of Simmons plant or whatever it is because it's still not out in the public realm yet but at least they know there's been this discussion being had they don't know there's any discussion being had if I do it one on one. The. It is the public business. As a city administrator I try to be as transparent every single day with everything I do from the public standpoint but there is information that's already exempt from FOIA by the twenty seventeen jobs act. In how do how does the mayor how does a city administrator how does a city of manager discuss that information. With the board. If you can't do it today except one on one and what I found out is that I'm may get sort of a. You know one on one that I might get four or five of the seven to say yeah we're we're you know we we kinda like this idea. But one member when we go to in the public has a different viewpoint and brings up something different and and things start changing so I think that free flow of information is very very important. But as I said I represent Collins I think the definition for economic development projects is in that job ACT. I believe it is about instructing negotiators when you have that and sometimes it is about purchasing a piece of property for an economic development project. And if you're gonna say in public you know this is the price that's if if they give your range it's going to be the high and there's no question about that. I thought about the question about a lost project after we had the task force and and I don't have a lost projects solemn springs is a small town we're struggling to bring economic development projects to our city. This provides another tool in the toolbox I don't believe it is going to water down the four year other states have it. It gives the board an opportunity to discuss amongst themselves those things that are already exempt from FOIA. The nearest thing to a loss project that I can think of that we had and solemn springs we have our own electricity we had a local manufacturing plant that ask us to help them one day run fiber optic cable it was going to cost them tens of thousands of dollars to pay the local cable company to run fiber optic can bring fiber optic to their plant. We have the ability instead of leasing our electric poles to that company to let them put their lines on our telephone pose or electric pose we have the ability just to run the wire for them save them tens of thousands of dollars. When we got to the actual vote one member was very concerned one board member was very concerned about taking. Business from a private entity and it it it almost failed. If they would have had that discussion I think it would have been better because he didn't I didn't have the chance to meet with him one on one he didn't know the amount of savings that could be had by that company. It was huge for them it was really huge for them. So again I think it's about the ability for the board to get together and discuss those things that are already exempt from the jobs acts in twenty seventeen to be able to discuss that openly amongst themselves come out. And have some debate at least on the public side before there's ever a vote but also to instruct myself if there is some incentive to be placed on the table if the developer says I've got a gap and I need two hundred fifty thousand dollars will the board might say offering one seventy five and you have the right to go up to two twenty five. If you do it in public the developer's gonna say well it's two twenty five or not. Mr be happy to answer any questions I appreciate your time. Of. Okay in your example and and maybe I'm wrong about this but if if you're an executive session and that decision is made the and the city council says you have a range from this and this is in that a decision that's being made an executive decision session that's not being made in front of and and fully transparent to the people that the final decision as to what the value is that they're going to actually put on the table and vote the decision is strictly to instruct me as a negotiator to say you can negotiate in this price in this range and there's no vote taking it's just I'm looking around saying okay is that the consensus okay I've got my marching orders. All of. But it still isn't that a decision that's being made it's a consensus as is in any any I going to executive session every year with the board to find out if I have a job the next day. And I can tell you there are times when they'd all all seven agree whether I have a job the next day or not so no formal decisions are being made they have to come out and formally vote. I don't think in that case they're going to come out and say we've been instructed Mr Patterson to go negotiate the purchase this property between fifty and seventy five thousand dollars but cannot say we've instructed Mr passion going to go negotiate the purchase of that property yes. Thank you Mr chair appreciate you coming down and that in the testimony I just want to clarify something because you mentioned that job right. So first of all I don't think the economic development definition of that would apply to the statute I don't think that's the way it works and the other thing is it's not limited to those for the exam documents because it says the job actor job accommodations or any other economic development project or investment opportunity so I just want to clarify and just make sure that you and I agree that we're talking about things beyond those that would be impacted by that act talk about any other economic development project where does not paternity which is not defined is that right I would agree with you and I would of. Referred to Representative hawk as to whether she's willing to amend that to narrowly defined that as it relates to the jobs act because from my standpoint that's really the the interest here is in negotiating incentives related to those economic development projects thanks. Yes this special thank you very much for coming down your testimony is very compelling as to why. This bill should be considered my question for you is though is as city manager you you or the the full time. You're the go to guy forty hours a week if not eighty hours a week eighty hours a week is a generous. And the city council members are paid by meeting they are there there is a reflection of the city is all as a whole as the Representative of the electric they set policy in my jobs to implement this policy numbers. And then your executive so wouldn't most of those decisions say that say the city wants to buy a piece property would be incumbent upon you to pick the price picked the property and go to them and say this is what I've spent my week on with my due diligence. Are you in or out. And with a majority of the votes they give you the forty to do that. In in some cases when we're when we're talking smaller economic development projects yes if we're outside of my spending authority if we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars I think it's incumbent to provide them with the information from the developer's standpoint what his investment is how many jobs he's going to create what that information is that may be exempt from FOIA and to see if they are supportive of going forward. Follow. So so which brings me to my next concern about this bill is is there's there's two. There's a line drawn there's a there's a broad intent of what can the city do then there's narrow intent is who can we negotiate with and get here which in essence is taking away risk from the part into the coming in and for me anytime that you that as a as a as a developer as a business owner any time you can mitigate risk that's that's a win for one party. It is not a win for the rest of the of the market. so. I guess what I'm trying to say is is why can't you negotiate those risk directly with the entity that wants to come in and then just presented. To the board. For for consensus well again I think in certain economic development situations because Some cities have developed and I'm gonna give you a long answer not apologize but some cities have developed economic incentive packages if you do a B. and C. you get so much thousands of dollars. I. I cut my teeth. On a different way of doing that which is every economic development project is different it has its own set of issues that you have to adjust with and rather than saying if you create five jobs you get five thousand dollars because next thing you know we're. Providing money to a business that maybe is is in the best interest of the city in our downtown or whatever it is so I think because everyone of those projects are different there are times when I believe it's best to see if the board is supportive of doing something like an economic incentive as it relates to this particular business and what they would bring to the community before I go out and negotiate and bring it to the board. And they vote no. Because they haven't had the opportunity to really see the information and to have that discussion about the information that's exempt from FOIA. Thank you. Thank you. Just what one quick question you mentioned in reference the information that is exempt from for you is that information provided to the council members ahead of time. In the in in their mail mailboxes or slot so that they can review that information it would be provided in the executive session but but why could it not be provided to them individually and that the documents there they're not enforceable. It it's been my experience that it's provided at the executive session again as Mister Wilkerson said this is somewhat new for us here in Arkansas so if if that were the case and it was an issue of. Depths of information that might be a better way to do it to provide them early so that if they went into executive session at this bill was passed at least have that background of information. But I do know that. Can you talked about earlier that there is a discussion at the coffee shop I do know that the more you pass that information out. The more likely it gets out beyond those that have the need to know about what's limited. So it it's been my experience that you discussed that in the executive session. Just a quick follow up you know most folks as a spoken in favor of use the words not a quote one is a learning experience and I guess must my statement a calm in this this is not a learning experience that I want to participate in at the expense of the taxpayer to. Yes the. Apple pie is one I do have a concern with the broadness of the term economic development it could be used in a broad way and maybe even use and what you said it wasn't really the intent of what we would be passing here the other thing concern ahead I'll ask you kind of the same question asked Mr Gladden or is that in executive session where you can discuss with all the parties there in a lobby back and forth and you come to a consensus of what the. What the city council members I think it's the best thing for the community outside the view of the community. When you bring that back into session the city council and the mayor do have the ability to limit that conversation that discussion about that to a very narrow or even not discuss it is that correct I think there would still be some discussion as it relates to the direction if we're talking about instruct negotiators as to the direction of that negotiation that I'm directed to go negotiate for the purchase of that land. Or if it's a specific we're going to offer. Two hundred thousand dollars to this you know major company that's coming in then they would have to state that publicly and vote on that in front of the public and give the public an opportunity to to comment. Follow up yes so so I understand they would have to show up they came together to we're going to you know in that session and we're all for this and we're gonna bring it before the the public to vote on it they can make a motion and vote on it without really allowing the public to discuss it if they so desire is not not correct. In my hometown we allow the public to speak to speak on every item on the agenda and we would allow the public to speak on that. I guess I have seen it city council meeting with a limit that to a very very very narrow. And that's my concern that the public will not have time the discussion if the decision is essentially made behind closed doors in the public really. Doesn't have knowledge of that discussion but they don't even on allow possibly a lot of time to discuss it before the voters call thank you. Okay any other questions. Seeing none was Patterson we prejudge test bank your thank you for your time. Of yes the above list the pad. Please. While. Because the. Okay that would be fine the. Okay that would be fine we have no one else to speak of for the bill I don't think do we know yes the a J. R. hawks who you are recognized if you would please state your name and. I put S. on there that's wrong I apologize. Arkansas I think that's on there RJ hawk I'm a broadcaster I'm also a city council member in the city of Brian's I come to you today to speak against H. B. twelve eighty bill may mainly just because of the credibility transparency I know we've heard a lot of people today talk about transparency we've heard a lot of people talk about executive session as somebody's been executive session I know first hand what it's like as far as information getting out as many of you may know according to state law what is talked about in executive session cannot be talked about when you come out yes you can as represented McGrew is talked about you can narrow it down to do a vote but as far as the details of what goes on in executive session you cannot talk about that publicly Furthermore nine times out of ten these type in negotiations are usually handled by the mayor the county judge and or the economic development director as well as a city planner. I've had the opportunity to see first hand and Bryant's some economic development that went on and there was actually a public notice given L. KQ which was just on Forbes top three hundred businesses in the world just expanded in Bryant. When they when they announced expansion we put it out to the public this was about five years ago put out to the public and said we want to have an open conversation about this many people didn't show up. If we did this behind closed doors it would really make people upset really really would make people upset. Furthermore the sense that okay Q. project has gone down they've now expanded into within feet of neighbors backyards residents backyards and it's really upset a lot of people not only in that neighborhood but outside in in in in neighboring neighborhoods because the fact they wonder what is our government hiding at the end of the day. This is all about transparency when you've got a mayor when you've got a county judge when you've got a economic development director that's our job is to go out negotiate that's our job to go out and set forth what they need to bring back to the council to then vote on. I I know that. Mr. The gentleman from solemn springs talk about he gets his marching orders from the city council but your job is to go out and make those deals and then come back and bring to your counsel and say this is what we've come up with do you agree or disagree we have that all the time have it all the time I don't believe that a bill to where you can have economic development talked about behind closed doors is good for anyone not good for the public we talk so much about mistrust in our government we talk about misinformation in our government. I think this right here when you go behind closed doors and do negotiating. That's a prime example of that everybody in this room has heard about mistrust misinformation we can avoid all that by not doing it behind executive session. Before I came here today and I I pulled all my fellow council members individually of course and I ask you what do you think about. Well I'm about to give you the results of this. I asked everybody as to what do you guys think about this bill. And it was just a simple phone call as to what you guys because I want to know what that I'm not thinking outside the box or or irrational about this. And every single one of them said why are they trying to make it more difficult on us. Every single one of them said that said why would we have a bill to where we are hiding behind closed doors to negotiate. And just like you guys are we're elected officials that have to talk to our constituents and so if we can't be upfront and honest with the negotiations that go on with our constituents when they ask. I don't see the point. So I say that to say this. I don't think there's anybody in this room that is against business I think we've all said that we want business we want Arkansas to grow in every corner of the State. But at the end of the day. Are residents want done fairly and by the book and this transfer is possible Mr chairman open for questions. Any questions. Seeing none. Appreciate your testimony thank you. Okay of. A state would you are you prepared at this time. I will try again since I got it right personnel that I would try again either. Thank you so much my name is Steve listed pad I am here as a on behalf of the society of professional journalists chapter here in Little Rock I'm also on the the for a coalition with all with many of the others that have testified today and my day job is I teach journalism and media law at Henderson state university I'm not being paid by Henderson state university to be here today just wanted to throw that out there I'm here I'm my own accord. but I I agree with all the sentence and logic that have been expressed by by my colleagues that that are opposed to this bill. It's a bad bill for its vagueness in for all sorts of other reasons but OR one point I did want to make was consensus building was was brought up here several times and consensus building is absolutely important context for for for the public to understand how decisions are made and if that's happening behind closed doors then then valuable context is is being lost even if even if the the city council just comes out and and and takes a vote and so you the people know the numbers that that consensus and then we have laws in place and regulations that that allow for the necessary privacy and secrecy that goes into deal making I just want to you share one analogy and because my colleagues made so many great points. I'm a recent transplant will for years now two Arkansas I'm I'm from a very similar state but even colder than this North Dakota and I I was a professor there as well and I've been a journalist in teaching me a lot for a number of years. And I've I've followed similar things like this in in another state and I'm bringing this up because I was I was initially going to talk about this but so many of you asked about well what's happens in other states that are similar to us and so I'm bringing this up because of that in in North Dakota largest media market is Fargo ands and the Fargo forum whenever they keep track of what are what are politicians and whatever's a public officials are doing and they they bring suits whenever a meeting to an ex parte meeting takes place two councilman go over to another councilman house to try to build consensus behind outside of public meetings and the Fargo forum suse and they win every time they they I can't think of a time that they lost I can't count how many times they have sued but they sue of for the Fargo metro area they don't sue for little papers around the state little city councils Littles small towns they have their budgets they have their area and that's what they that's what they pursue and the and the Secretary of or the the AG always always supports strong strong for a and strong open meeting laws in a very similar state arts. now let's bring that the present day scenario here and in Arkansas two years ago the this is the the newspaper and and Arkadelphia shut down the settings Harrell. Then the of the community brought back another newspaper the the Arkadelphia dispatch two weeks ago that shut down the only community newspaper for presenting real news to the real people covering the city council covering the chamber of commerce covering the school board is a college student run newspaper. How do we expect them to sue when something like this goes wrong that's the only recourse if if for the record if if this if these if these meetings are happening behind closed doors and that the information is not public and and that rules out for your request the only Avenue then for for these journalists to provide this information to the public is suit. And this is an extreme example but I can't imagine many of these others small town small town newspapers small town media organizations being able to afford to do this that is an unintended consequence and we all need to explore unintended consequences of bills like this and I rest in I'm open to any conversation or any questions I'm happy to try to answer any questions. I have one that I would ask you if you were to do you seating. What would you do to fix this bill I guess the question would be well I start over at the beginning the like it it like everybody said we all support economic development my students are trying to run a newspaper they need advertisers to supports this is to support what they do we all understand economic development we all understand that economic needs I would start over at the beginning and I and I and I would start building this bill in a conversation with the for a coalition and the task force not rating it at a time and saying what do you think because this is a four issue they should be if there if if we if we work with this really is a problem which I don't think it is but if this really is a problem I would I would throw this out start over with the subcommittee of the the coalition task force working with the Representative and and try to come up with something that would work for everyone. Okay thank you any other questions. If not you dismissed and. Of the I think this was the last one Wesley brown. Mr brown if you to identify yourself for the record. My name is Wesley brown many of you know me from covering on the business reporter that's been covering economic development projects at the state capitol for twenty years going back to when governor Huckabee was trying to get Toyota come to the state of Arkansas because I've covered every major. Number development project in the state of Arkansas since then This is a bad bill today publisher of the daily record the real estate in legal journal here in Little Rock though this. Business publication I cover business that's all I do I come up here I write to political stories but business is what I write about I write about these projects read about The economic development in this bill. Egmond number voting to mean anything. Investments can being anything But more importantly to mean the public's right to know. Is greater and Transparency out we need to go behind closed doors I was a personal axe Mr Wilkinson how many projects have been lost in Arkansas. Because of the need for this. No one gave me an answer. No one gave me a reason for. I'll tell you a. We've had well governor Hutchinson has done a great job in bringing jobs to Arkansas. but there's been some some issues does does to projects that young man mention Arkadelphia. Does a super project there One point five billion dollars they didn't come to that city the residents don't have a newspaper that they don't know what went wrong. They don't know that the state. Was negotiating with foreign agencies chapter. Same thing happened in Forrest city of four hundred million dollar project people don't know why those jobs that come to him as a reporter it's my job to give those people answers have made able to. This bill would make it more difficult for transparency it will make it more difficult to the tell the public what is being done with their money is their money is not ours it's important for me as a reporter to make sure that when I do my job that I have the ability and and the one thing that's going to happen as the Mr hall mention is that you go behind closed doors I'll give more information. People will talk more. And that information will always get a. So hi I'll just leave it at that everyone else has made a lot of great points and answered all the questions but this the boots on the ground reported that needs a great of freedom information I'm a member of the the task force and I would acts that you would vote against this bill. Any questions. Mr brown when I was county judge will be issues that we had was that we would put a package together and it would be public right and we're competing against another state and all they do is and in their state they didn't have to be public with their package right and and we felt that was an issue and again I you know I believed as much information to the public is is is is possible there there are things like swimming Commission most of these projects have kind of company is generally agreements yes that information is not going to get out. So that's a lot of that and and. Everyone knows what the incentive that's on the table that gives that gives this gentleman some flexibility to to negotiate so I don't see a reason for that. Any other questions. Represented ride you're recognized yes Sir open to this points or anything to do with economic development or investment opportunity. that all has to be discussed any the city council or a quorum court resent all right sure. Wide open. Economic development and yes this on all so that has to be brought up. At quorum court meeting or city council meeting in front of everyone with a newspaper can report on that yes yes Sir now if this went through it would that not not that may. City this year with this one thank you Sir okay any other questions Mr right usually I'm using action you the question so you. Senator at. Okay any other saying none the ms brown your issues we appreciate your testimony thank Sir okay I have no one else signed up is there someone here that wanted to speak. Okay saying none the represented the Hawker road. If you would like to close yes I would okay I would do want to thank everyone for coming today we know that this is a passionate topic of which we are all Passionate about and I would just like to ask the Hi if we can pull the bill back and work on wording for for this bill I would like to ask the Representative that had to leave from the Benton Council. Did they read the bill or did they read the headline that said our needed secrecy gentry lawmaker pitches new way to exclude public. If they read only the headline I can understand why they would be against this bill. I would say that the press association and the broadcasters that are here today asking for transparency and honesty could write a dueling headlines that would say media takes wing at legislator aim to help local communities and with that I would like to close today. All right. Are you wanting to make a motion I will move to pull the bill down today okay consider their amendments of the reporting of the bill okay without objection. All right seeing none. All right if right now all I have no bills do we have any bills for which the unless something changes drastically will probably not be whimsy.