Insurance & Commerce- House

To H. B. ten twenty seven is the bill we passed out here sometime ago the Senate just wanted to add the definition of a bitter and that's all this does is that a definition of a bitter. Bitter as in sour or bitter as in better be added the DVR and what is that definition it can be a person that does a monetary offer to purchase it can be a person that they're physically or it can be a person there online okay sounds good representive Alan. You are recognized for motion. Okay we have a motion do pass on concurring. With Senate Amendment. Sorry. Right Senate Amendment number one we're concurring with that there need any discussion by members if not all those in favor of concurring with the Senate amendment signify by saying aye. Any opposed say no. Your amendment has been approved thank you so much thank you for being here. All right. Members I'm going to be jumping around on this agenda Right accommodate members who are needing to be in another committee of representative Gonzales I think you've got Senate bill one sixty eight that you're running for senator Hammer. Yes Senate bill one sixty eight okay you'll just identify yourself for the record a representative Justin Gonzales. So Senate bill one sixty eight just take something that we already do with direct primary care healthcare and expands it other health care model so specialist Dennis whatever allows them to to participate in the Director models without of being under the insurance regulations if you would like for me to describe to tell you what the direct healthcare is I'd be glad to but if not I will. Take questions well we can't let you off that he there's a question representative brown. Representative Gonzalez I would appreciate it if you would tell me what direct Kerry as the director is a membership based model to to a clinic or position so that directly contract with with the with the patient so just pay a monthly fee and you have twenty four hour access phone internet bill email whatever to that provider certainly concierge it yes but it's. A concierge has a different meaning and that direct care usually they don't take any type of insurance all they take is a cash cash pay because here is is an additional thing on top of what your insurance pays that you pay for a premium service and this is not exactly that it's not a premium serve me you're getting what what everybody else gets you just. Pay a monthly fee instead of paying for your office was it when you come in thank you very much okay members of are there any other questions. Let me I need to make an announcmenet Mr Meretz we have assisted seat reserve for press over here but I think someone is sitting in it so if you could look at the sign on the seat if it is for press we need to free up one chair. Now. Did you find it okay all right. Okay sorry for the interruption of representative wooden. representing Gonzalez Ortiz already in existence. Yes I mean there is out there they I've heard of it two three constituents mention of to me that there use a and it's it's it's it's just kind of a it's a quicker faster. Medical attention. And and then you have X. number of of a this is it you can have in a period of time is that is that how it works what I'm most of them don't even limit the number of visits you have an affair to time but yes that's correct amend the use of a okay yes generally that so we have it in and drop in primary care now DO you pay a small monthly fee the the have have access but yeah there's a few throughout the state a lot of people. A lot of people like it better than you a lot of people who even have health insurance will use this model instead because they can get in quicker gets injured I'll take a very limited number of patients in the membership roll so they they have time to dedicate to those patients. That some specialists are already using it as well using the Director model as well this is just making sure that they don't come under the Insurance regulations because it's not insurance it's there's no risk assessment involved it's yeah this is the buyer knows what he's doing right to go to that's correct thank you Mr chairman. Thank you members any other questions. Seeing seeing none is there anyone in the audience who wishes to speak for or against this bill. There's none so of it anyone wish to make a motion representative Boyd. Okay members we have a motion of do pass on the floor we are open for discussion is there anyone who would like to speak for the bill against if not we have a motion of do pass on the I'm sorry she giving opportunity close. Your clothes okay we have a motion of do pass on the floor all those in favor of do pass. Of this Senate bill is signify by saying aye. If the opposing no in the bill passes congratulations thank you. Representive Matix are you ready for H. B. sixteen sixty two or would you rather take another one I wouldn't mind running through thirty nine or okay let's do that the Senate bill two thirty nine Senator Rapert spilled represent Maddox. That are saying you have a witness at the table with you so if you have to you introduce yourself if you will have your witness introduce himself for the record. Thank you Mr chair John Maddox I do have a witness Derek Smith is here with me to assist me in my presentation and I would ask him to go ahead identify himself if he would. Good morning Mister chair committee my name is Derek Smith I'm an attorney here in Little Rock and I represent United healthcare. Thank you. Representive your you may present your bill thank you Mr chair. Colleagues I appreciate your alignment present this bill today it's I believe it's a really simple bill and I believe it's a very good bills can be beneficial for businesses in the state of Arkansas this bill would allow insurance companies to offer a lower cost option to employers in the small group market by allowing them to self fund the product with stop loss coverage Arkansas law currently allows these types of products but they are not competitive today because the requirements around the required stop loss coverage make them too expensive this bill would remove some of the overly restrictive stop loss minimum attachment point requirements while keeping appropriate protections in place currently Arkansas has the strictest stop loss minimum attachment point requirements in the southeast this bill would bring Arkansas more in line with what is allowed in Alabama Georgia North Carolina South Carolina Mississippi Tennessee Louisiana and Florida and the insurance department has vetted this bill reviewed it they have no objection to it the Arkansas state chamber of commerce is in support of this bill as I believe it will help us be more competitive in the market and allow employers to to self fund through stop loss plans and I'll be glad to take any questions Mr. Okay representive fielding you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman a road map what is the stubble of. Deposit insurance for the. Thank you represent the line for that question that that's a good question I'd like to allow Mister Smith to to ensure that if I could thank you. Good morning Mr a representative fielding stop loss coverage is coverage over and above the risk that the small employers willing to take so by law they have to accept up to a hundred and twenty percent of their except of their anticipated risk and if they want to have a re insurer for a larger company take any risk of that that's the stop loss it's the point at which a reinsurance company takes over the risk from the small employer. Follows. thank you. Okay members any other questions. Representative Ferguson. Thank you Mr chair what's currently the. The minimum stop loss now in state. So. Representive under current law the minimum attachment point is sort of the greater of three different points it's either the greater of a four thousand dollars multiplied by each in number of employees that the employer has four one hundred twenty percent of the expected risk for twenty thousand dollars this bill just says the minimum point will just be that of one hundred twenty percent of expected loss. Okay thank you Mr thank you any other questions members. I think of Mr Smith was the only one signed up to speak for is there anyone though that wishes to speak against the bill. Anyone else speak for. If not you are recognized to close for your bill thank you Mr chair thank you committee that I think the one thing I didn't mention is this bill hi this bill has been vetted by the Arkansas insurance department they are they have no objections to this bill so I think it'll be a good good thing for businesses help them be more competitive and I appreciate a good vote okay. And Representative board makes the motion to pass okay we have a motion on the floor we are now open for discussion members any discussion. If not motion of do pass on the Senate bill. One. Skews being two thirty nine Senator Rapert said bill representative Maddox presenting all those in favor of do pass motion signify by saying aye any opposed say no there's not congratulations on passing that bill. While you're there you want to also take up the thank you Mr Smith. Are you wanting to take up your other bill H. B. sixteen sixty two yes I'd like to do that okay you are recognized you have a witness yes Sir Mr jackass John Bethel to join me at the table place. Mr Chaykin allow the witnesses senators themselves absolutely. good morning Mr chairman members of the committee on John Bethel I'm the director of public affairs for enters the Arkansas and well let my court introducing. Morning chairman and members of the committee when I was ventral Thompson I'm the regional customer service manager for into the Arkansas. Okay representive you're recognized present the bill thank you thank you Committee. In two thousand fifteen the General Assembly passed ACT seven twenty five the dated the regulatory framework enables utilities to update rates annually with the formula rate plan the legislation has been working effectively and has allowed the utilities to invest in their systems while maintaining stable rates as utilities have implemented their plans are been some debate on a couple of technical issues that have arisen and need to be cleaned up to avoid costs of the litigation to allow the mechanism to work as the General Assembly intended the technical adjustments and address the opportunity for utilities recover their net netting adjustment and confirms that the four percent base rate cap is calculated using total revenues. These amendments maintain the status quo for Arkansas customers low income customers other residential customers and small businesses in Arkansas will continue to enjoy the customer protections included in the act principally the four percent cap on any rate changes to that customer bills have increased at less than the rate of inflation Arkansas nuclear one is one of the state's largest lowest cost to most most reliable resources energy Arkansas made significant investments to maintain that valuable resource ensure that is operating to benefit customers in Arkansas the mild summer weather during two thousand seventeen that included only four days in the nineties and no days with temperatures over one hundred injured you was not able to recover prudently incurred cost that been approved by the commission the technical corrections are necessary to clarify the energy Arkansas can recover those costs to continue to operate this critical generating resource in my district energy is invested in strengthening its transmission and distribution networks to improve reliability and service quality in my part of the state the formula rate plan is essential to allow these investments to occur. In passing exit seven twenty five in two thousand fifteen the General Assembly established cost allocation and rate design provisions to ensure that our Arkansas's largest employers at competitive rates to ensure that Arkansas could continue to attract and retain these businesses The Amendment to complete the implementation of these provisions over the five year extension term of energy Arkansas's formula rate plan while shielding other customers from any adverse impact through the four percent cap these moments ensure that all customers as well as the state continued to realize the benefits that were intended by the General Assembly when initially the act in two thousand fifteen. That's I'd be glad to take any questions and I would actually like to allow Mr Bethel to to make a statement if the chair feels that's appropriate that that be fun and that Mr. Mister Thompson will do that on Energy behalf. Again hello my name is ventral Thompson Regional manager customer service in my prior role as manager regulatory affairs I was the over on the original drafting team Bragg seven twenty five and I was responsible for preparing the first four F. R. P. filings before moved over into my current role and so now I get an opportunity to see the benefits of ACT seven twenty five on the regulatory side and on the customer side and so in twenty fifteen when the General Assembly approved ACT seven twenty five it reform the way utilities recover prudently incurred costs from its customers of the act introduced a more streamlined formulaic approach to the traditional rate case construct an incorporated cost allocation and rate design changes for utilities largest class of customers in order to benefit economic development in the state. Instead of let the rate case proceedings that occur every two to three years and are based on historical data presented after those costs have been incurred the FIP allows for an annual review of the utilities costs and revenues. It allows you to leave to project it's call centers revenues out twelve months and reconcile those costs once the actual cost of revenues are no. Any differences either refunded or recover from customers via the netting adjustment. this is been a benefit of increasing regulatory oversight into the to lease operations and allowing pre approval of the company's plans to increase the safety reliability and the resilience of the grid. The F. R. P. has built a building customer protections they have the effect of producing more stable predictable rate changes instead of the periodic larger rate increases under the traditional rate case framework. There's a five year initial term of the F. R. P. with the option to renew for an additional five years. We're nearing the end of the initial five years where a customer or utilities are able to request that additional five year extension. Enter G. is the first utility to actually request that ruling request that from the commission is currently under consideration of the public service commission. I'm proud to report that the mechanism is working as it was initially intended it's a success we've been able to invest in our aging infrastructure improve reliability and keep our rates among the lowest in the country. Customer rates have remained stable and predictable the average annual increase for customers total bill has been one point one percent over the initial term of the F. R. P. which is actually lower than the rate of inflation. Because of the F. R. P. we've been able to extend favorable payment terms for residential and small business customers were struggling during the pandemic in fact we're currently Carrying a past due balances of a hundred million dollars for those customers and we plan to continue working with those customers to provide more favorable payment terms of the F. R. P. allows us that flexibility without that after P. eight that that that will be difficult for us to do. We continue to invest in our generation fleet we've made the necessary capital expenditures at a NO which is one of the largest and cheapest sources of energy in Arkansas we've also added solar resources to our fleet of those in those investments have enabled us to main competitive electric rates and support economic development in the state. The proposed amendments fall under three categories the first category resolve the dispute on how the netting adjustment is calculated. There are there was the challenge in our fifth filing of the F. or P. that question whether the netting adjustment was in compliance with the statute. And although the company's calculation was in compliance with the tariff that was on file with the Arkansas Public Service Commission the Commission rule that that statute language could be interpreted differently. And unfortunately the effect of that ruling essentially eliminates the netting adjustment altogether and so the amended language seeks to clarify the netting adjustment calculation and incorporates a methodology that is more favorable to customers. The second category extends to the cost allocation and rate design measures four largest utility customers that is already available to them in the rate case we're trying to extend that to the F. R. P.. Given those amendments to seek the phase in any changes over three to five year period while shielding all other residents one small of the cut small customers from any from any rate increases and because they're actually under the protections of the of the statue already before percent cat. the last category is we're just incorporating streamlining measures measures for more efficient proceeding essentially we're incorporating improvements of the information we used to determine the projected cost. And we're adjusting the timing of certain a certain information and when that of a information is available to the parties in the proceeding. So we believe these amendments to improve the existing act and extend the status quo for customers and so at this time we'll take questions. The Murdock and believe the you have a question. Yeah I have a couple questions of so. What I like you a dress is is during this time period of that we're in the pandemic time period and and we're we're asking. Where acts to make a vote obviously to vote to extend a this F. R. P. this going to sunset here shortly and I want to to reiterate again for us in for constituents what you. How that makes sense as it relates to the time frame and what this will do to enter G. if it's not pass you know is you know are you in a situation that if this does not happen that you are in a precarious position and trying to provide the services and efficiency of of of of of what you do in a matter of this acceptable to all those involved talk a little bit about what it would do to we I know what it would do to the people but what will do for entity to that's a good question representative Murdock and so the way I answer that question is we believe that extending the FRB it is essentially extending the status quo there are a number of protections that are already embedded in the form of a plan and what will happen if we don't get this amendment extended is that were but we won't be able to invest in our system as we have been over the last five years some of the things that we're doing right now to protect rate payers and giving them a more extensive payment terms that'll be more difficult but essentially the order that's before the commission right now to. to extend the F. R. P. and to correct the netting adjustment if that isn't changed we're looking for months if not years of litigation to actually employ the netting adjustment statute within the within the tear. So that's that's something that you know extending the F. R. P. for another five years on the same customer protections with a four percent cap that are available to customers we think that's a good thing instead of going into a rate case environment where those customer protections will not be a play anymore one follow please yes thank you so do you think if we if if we and some of us may have if we look at the the books the of of entity in the amount of profits and money that they make over the last during the last is a twenty four months do you think that we as a committee we feel that that would do it would make you do what you just said if this is not pass was not pass that it would have that far reaching effect based upon the amount of dollars you take it to the house. Yes Sir because enters the Arkansas has not. it is authorized rate of return over over this period even under the the operation of the formula rate plan and we would be you know we would have to pursue of a general rate case in lieu of. The the steady predictable increases under the formula rate plan and the outcome of the general rate case would in all likelihood produce a larger increase for our customers they and continuing the formula rate plan for another five years it would Historically rate cases have involved large increases every few years and they've generally been greater than four percent when that when those occur and with the formula rate plan customers experience. stable rates during that time frame smaller changes in rates from one year to the next so it's a lot more predictable a lot easier to budget for and so I think that from from a customer affect standpoint the extending the formula rate plan will have a better outcome for customers than not extending it and especially during the during the pandemic because this will enable us to maintain stable rates continue to invest in Arkansas and also will enable us to continue to provide favorable payment terms for customers and businesses that are struggling to pay those past due amounts that have come up I think that that helps customers and we that is because Mr Thompson said we wouldn't be in the financial position to be able to do that as as well as we are currently. We put it back in the queue Mr yes please will thank you will put your back queue representive Kenneth Ferguson. Thank you Mr of of one question on page two second paragraph. The. First Senate talks about a class of customers with the highest level of consumption per customer which has raised that include a demand component back when the pandemic started I had some a nonprofit organizations as well as for profit small businesses it closed down there facilities for a whole month yet the energy charge remain the same or even a little bit higher I found out that it was some sort of customer demand charge that was primarily on businesses and nonprofits some of my non profits with churches. And so when I checked with energy. They explain the demand charge which is something that is I believe this customer. However there was something that the public service commission told me about a particular section that allows you to G. to treat those in non profits a little bit differently and I met my question is this the talks about a demand component in this piece of legislation how with that demand component affect my nonprofits particularly some of the churches. The the legislation that the the class of customers that that section and others are referring to with the demand component or the largest customers and it wouldn't affect your your churches and nonprofits that would be in the smaller rate class and so it this legislation and the and the formula rate plan as it operates today would not alter the level of the the demand charges for that group of customers ACT I can commit to you that we are. We are happy to work with you and with those customers to explore whether their bills have been calculated correctly and and also to pursue if there are provisions to be more favorable to nonprofit I'm I'm not certain what that might be but we're certainly willing to explore what's possible within the public service commission regulations and with our within our terraces to see. One of those customers on the most favorable rate schedule is available to them and then to where they being correctly charged and if there are questions about that we're we're able to work through that and be glad to do that the one final question yes you're right yes Sir Mr Bethel is it it could you get me if the entity has have a definition to distinguish between those higher. read it the customers is for is those nonprofits and I'm talking about the Little nonprofits where the all they have is a building. Open up yes Sir it's based on the level of consumption that that customer class would have and on the level of demand that that customer class would have and the level of demand for that largest class is and the level of consumption for that class is much larger than small businesses with such as churches or. The facility and so that I can I can certainly produce the the rate schedule itself that would show the difference between those two groups of customers and how their bills are are are calculated okay Mr will you be back in the queue. Yes thank you representive Alan you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman of. Under the old plans existed plan right now you all mentioned that the rate increases with one point one percent. And one of the lawyers in the country. under this new proposal which you off opposing can I ask the public service commission to come to the table and and and tell me what they think of this bill is in the best interest of the council we we do have so we'll just we'll have to wait for that he signed up to speak for the bill so we'll do that in the Ford again I guess my question to you guys Under this new proposal. is it safe to say. That What you are proposing is in the best interest of the consumer I right now yes Sir I believe that it is because it's really continuing to do what we've been doing for the last five years and it's clarifying a couple of technical questions as Mister Thompson explained but otherwise the customer will see the the the same experience that they've had over the last five years with stable predictable rates then in all likelihood. I would say that the customer shouldn't have a different experience and what they've had over the last five years so you know rates will rates will change some but but at a lesser level than they would in the alternative. So one follow up of so if it's okay there. Yes you're recognized so it's safe to say. That this plan is very similar to the one that we already have yes Sir okay. Thank you representative wooden you're recognized. Where the word of the. The liability and infrastructure. I understand the situation. That. There are terrible go for use as bad temperatures will lead. This will this play a permit shall to maintain the system. Other manner. Working for with. I think the the recent storms that we experienced the last month all right good demonstration that the investments that we've made in strengthening our our transmission system or distribution system and even are generating resources all enabled us to to come through that event which was under you know very extreme and with a limited number of of outages that happened during that in the end I think that's a benefit of our investments here and it's a benefit of participating in the mice so the Regional transmission organization so that we're interconnected with other utilities and able to of support them and they can support us and I think that during that event it didn't demonstrated that the investments we're making are paying off and making the system more reliable and then we're also seeing Justin routine operations that outages or or or fewer and outages are shorter and I think will will be able to continue making some improvements throughout our system to continue to make that better and we're able to do that under the the formula rate plan without having to raise rates sharply and and added that unpredictable intervals were able to do so on a path. Yes we would you turn your microphone on. Thank you. That would help thank you. Of. So so the the foreman to get permit you to have the flexibility to be able to adjust financially within the cab. To be able to do and that's been under of one percent it It over the past five years yes customer okay not not bonus question ties in with what you mentioned at the end of your answer to my question and that is how vulnerable. Are we to these other people the other folks. When we get in a bind I don't know we don't have the insurance for the electricity now we still involved with the southwest energy pool. Right of Arkansas is is inside the southwest power pool and that's the regional transmission organization that serves about the the western third of Arkansas and then the number of other states they manage the the transmission system and then enter G. as in within the mice so regional transmission organization that covers ours most of Arkansas two thirds of Arkansas and then extends up into the the states north of us and and the state and the states south of us and so there are I believe seven regional transmission organizations in the country and so Arkansas has the the distinction of having of the two of them serving our state and two of them have one has its corporate headquarters here in one of them has its of other office here but yes Sir we're we're part of that and I think you know that has been helpful and a lot of ways because we're able to share resources and and difficult times both we're we're able to share with our fellow members and they're able to share with us when when there's a need. So representative would not I can put you back in the queue. Okay okay representive fielding. read the record will have. Right off of the bill. What I was going to access about. Come on the thank you. Register with wooden if you'll turn your my cough will we will come back to your problems. Representative Murdock give follow up. You're fine representative Ferguson. You're good to okay we'll representive wouldn't your back up. So. The oldest green talk they were here and and in Texas I mean the you know you're you're all right as long as the sunshine and low as the winds blowing and then the windmills don't freeze up. Adult and you all are you all taken that into consideration when you look at your generation of electricity in Arkansas hello you mentioned nuclear one but a whole. The deal will not be influenced by this while any other move the we're hearing coming out of Washington. I think I can assure you that we currently have a mix of generation resources both the any includes some solar and and but we have other resources which during this recent storm I think was to our credit because we were able to rely on all. Our. Allow. Thank thank you representive Hodges you're recognized. Thank you Mr this sept at two questions in one just real simple questions who who who does this hurt is it hurting any if you and and and and who who opposes this whose opposition with the. I'm I'm not aware that it hurts anybody I think it's beneficial to all of our customers and a bit it maintains a stable rates it maintains the the status quo experience for our customers and I'm not aware that there is any active opposition to it but we have the support of the I know that the the chairman public service commission is going to speak the the governor's office is supportive a number of of business interests Walmart the universities I believe are are not opposed to the to the bill so I think we have a a broad. Representation of of of entities that are supportive or or not opposed to the the chain so I think that it's it's good for our customers thank. Thank you representative flowers you're recognized. Thank you. have several conversations and I think for the benefit of the committee and further in life and then like we talked earlier about your ability to. Engage the kind of investments that you have in the last four and a half years. And can you speak a little bit about what those investments are what those costs have been and then kind of Juxtapoz that could you said you wouldn't be able to without this. And I'm looking at. Timing I'm looking at timing you know on the one hand we've got. Constituents with bills and arrears. And then because we've made the investments. And we are where we are you also have a very healthy you know corporate reporting centers of profits and so I'm trying I'm trying to juxtapose that X. if you talk to us about what those investments have looked like and what they would look like and tell us about that. To talk about. over the past five years we can. So does Michael yes Sir representative flowers over the last five years we've invested in all aspects of the business whether that is the transmission and distribution center network where we are increasing technologies to help the reliability of the grid we spent about two point eight billion dollars over the last five years and. We're starting to see what we are seeing improvement in reliability customers are out of less frequently and then when they are out there out for less time and so all of those are are benefits that our customers are experiencing some of the technology we've been employing is that we have a new automated meters that allow customers to Allow us to service customers faster than we have been in the past we know exactly when those customers are out now and so we can roll a truck to them sooner it also is acting as the platform for additional services that we're going to offer to our customers you can now go on I'm I enter G. app and follow your usage patterns and. Almost real time is about four five hour delay but that allows cut that gives customers the. A better resource to kind of manage their expenses or manage their bill and so those are some of the things that we've been investing in over the last five years and would like to continue that investment but one of the things that it's going to hamper us is that the if we don't fix the netting adjustment which essentially is doesn't allow us to recover costs that have already been approved by the public service commission they've just been limited by that four percent cap and so those are some of the issues that we're better in the bill that we're trying to work through and. Hours I'd also point you use use a why now one of the benefits of the formula rate plan versus the traditional rate case process is savings that we realize in and improving efficiency of operations and as we had technology that does produce some savings savings show up to customers in real time they show up. The blue year to year when they happen under periodic rate cases that you do every two to three years or longer those savings don't show up to customers until the next time and so there's a period of time where you know so they're both the expenditures that show up through the formula rate plan and their savings that show up to the four oh rate plan and those show up every year and so as we as we become more efficient and and areas the benefit of those efficiencies also shows up in real time. Follow up is fair of we'll put you back in the queue I think you've had two questions okay. Thank you I said I had to but only advanced ones thank you. so just staying on this issue with regard to the infrastructure and you mentioned that there was a two point. Eight billion dollar investment can you tell us What the investments will look like in terms of the the substance of those investments in the cost and can you let us know in the last cycle under the current legislation what the Real costs were What the revenue was as if that came from that rate increases that came under the current legislation. Thank you. The the rate increase so so that so in the past and right so over the course of the past five years. From since fifteen. You've invested two point eight billion and you've told us what some of those investments have been. So what has the revenue then for into G. from the rate increases from the current legislative cycle and then what were what are some of the things you intend to do moving forward. So B. at the the last five years we've actually hit the if the cat cap three of the last five years and so what that does is that's one of those customer protections that kind of level lies is the cost that of we're at lane and so customers get an opportunity to pay that over time as opposed to paying for it all at once and so that that could those customer protections are really really helpful to our investors into a custom. Flowers I point out that over the last five years as Mister Thompson mentioned we we've spent two point eight billion dollars rates have gone up an average of one point one percent annually so it's we've been able to make significant capital investment sand of expenditures on our service territory without experiencing significant rate rate changes over that period of time and the the other areas that we've invested in all areas of our infrastructure to make those better the transmission system the distribution system the generation facilities that we've had a lot of expenditures on we've added solar facilities we and we've got to three facilities that operate in Arkansas we've got another one that's been approved by the public service commission under construction two more that are. Proposed before the public service commission now and those are a good edition to our generation mix and there are good opportunities economically for Arkansas both in terms of meeting all of our customers needs and if the cost effective way but also from an economic development standpoint there a lot of businesses that want to maintain the sustainability goal and we're able to be helpful in attracting businesses that have that as a specific target and so those investments are also included in what we've done during the first term of the formula rate plan and I would expect similar types of investment over the over the remaining term. Thank you representative of a back in the queue thank you okay representative Richardson. It members I just remind you that I appreciate that some of you've taken yourself out of the queue. We do have a significant bill they were needing to get to I know this one is very important as well but if if your question is maybe been answered in part of Preciado if we can keep our questions short representative Richardson thank you I just for clarity I heard you say that of you're limited to the four percent cap but this bill keeps you at that four percent cap there's no additional increase correct that is correct thanks maintains the status quo thank you okay thank you. The representative flowers we're back to you. Yes thank you I just so I was just trying to get to. I know that there was a cap. But in the time for we're clear that you've made that two point eight billion dollar investment and. I'm just trying to understand. What the what the revenue benefit has been as a result because I know there's been saving so sort of what is the net revenue benefit from the increases that have taken place in that time. So is there like do you all know that there's been a you know one billion dollars that has been generated net from those increases in the five years or that that's what I was asking about okay so I think I apologize but in answer that question right the first time but I think the better way to answer that may be to explain how the the rates are set so the Arkansas Public Service Commission approves a revenue requirement that is based on all the cost and and and revenues of the company and so that includes pre approval of all the expenses that we incurred By operation of the four percent cap we haven't been able to recover all of those because all of those charges right and so we we go through we put that in and and effect and to the extent that revenue requirement that is greater than the four percent cap those dollars either get rolled over into the netting adjustment or they are never recover from customers because of the operation of the four percent cap so I don't have the exact numbers with respect to revenues but I do know that the revenue requirement that has been set we have not been able to recover all of those revenue requirements because of the operation of the cat. The annual. Level of. Or change over VOL ballpark so the the largest increase we've had I think has been. Others in a in a given year. And you know that's in relation to if you look at our last rate case the last rate case was in the room was in twenty fifteen was in the two hundred twenty million range. Thank you. Of members any additional questions we do have some witnesses. So no more questions I will call now to add their study when signed up to speak against the bill but I was still call Ford if there's anyone that would like to speak against a H. eleven sixty three or skews me. To try to read this. Eleven sixty two. Anyway this bill I can't I'm sorry I can't read that Anyone speak against snow representative having skews me Mr Thomas from the public service commission signed up to speak for. Sixteen sixty two. Thank you Mr chairman thank you all the most of you know I'm Ted Thomas chairman public service commission. This bill on that in my view. Is positive let me explain why is it that in on that and we knew that something you're balancing. to to to begin that let me talk first about the process how we got here entered the filed a rate case. And there was an issue on the committee. The the way the nating works is if you go over the four percent you defer it to the next year. In interviews view and it's gonna be some a little over simplified what you should have is a continual for all such the eventually the money gets recovered. How you do that is you would just. If you have two years where you're over the cap consecutively. So you're over the four percent and say that's twenty million then you push the twenty million in the next year. If you're over the captain that year too then you have a proportionality question. Enter G. view was that they got that money that they didn't get first reducing the cap and then placing you under the cap for the second year. But the statute said actual. And what their view was was that you would just that second year. By giving them the money that they miss the previous year our legal ruling was that because the statutes of actual. You could not adjusted. Now sitting here today I obviously think that that was the right legal ruling. Because it gave the words meaning to the statute and I am now denies this to the four lane highway thing. When you have the four lane highway thing from the Supreme Court. You can look at the budget documents and say well this moneys intended for interstate and this money over here is intended for the US highways and you can put all of that context behind it but the court said we don't want that context words have meaning four lane highway case resolved. The financial impact of that decision was sixty nine million dollars. There is a reasonable solution in my view that's presented in this bill. But it also includes an adjustment. We couldn't reach that's what I think was the original the reasonable conclusion because the statute said actual. And that's why we're here today in my view within your regular process normally what you do the legislatures delegate authority us and then we make these decisions part of why we do that is quite frankly so you're a step removed at the end of the day the cost of the system have to be paid by customers and the public service commission exists so you all don't have to pass a bill Sesan directly setting the rates. So how the Bill treats the netting is instead of enter G. getting all of the money taken off the top that they didn't get from the previous year it makes it proportional. It also seeks to change the decision. What what I think is reasonable and that's the Division it's roughly thirty thirty seven that's rough. The second thing that the bills bills with is what we call cost allocation utility cases or a two step process you determine that what the utility debts. Lump total. Then you allocate that out to the customer classes. This bill resolve this bill shifts. The balance more from status quo on the business side. But then there's an argument that rages in every rate case that there is an existing subsidy that favors residential over business the key driver of that. Is that if you have a large plant like think of the steel plant with the largest probe. It costs more in July than it does in January but it's by less than on the residential side and it's the moving up and down on the residential side that justifies more cost being sent to them but this addresses. That balance. They're or other issues and that you would resolve any rate case that we will not resolve. Because they're resolved in this bill. Those include are we the term of the extension and already the allocation. One other thing that I would say is that this extension bill. Has given the opportunity to have the opportunity for the utilities and solar developers. The opportunity to resolve some of their contentious issues. in a way that betters all of Arkansas. So with that I'd be glad to answer any questions thank you of representative Alan and I believe represent represent wooden were you waving. Your neck I mean after representative Alan. thank you thank you Mr chairman most of the terms. Can you on the quickly say that this. Bill. Is in the best interest of. The consumer. I think on balance for all consumers yes. Three do think it's tilted. But not unreasonably but till to toward the business side in terms of the allocation. But this is something that you support. Yes of the bill on total. Thank you thank you representive would. Comments on the. Is this not say. The state a lot of money. From the standpoint of we're not having to constantly hold hearings as it relates to rate increases and all the all it said and all the consultants and. We have to use in order to be able to investigate a rate request so would it build a fair assumption to say that this approach is really of the Little League good for the state but is good for the consumer because it doesn't cost us as us being in the state a lot of money. Mormon in in a perfect world yes one of the problems that we've had with the implementation of the statute and this gets better over time is it be is it was a new statute. We kind of had. It was almost like a mini rate case that is you streamline over time that gets better. But the purpose is. At the end of the day you get to this roughly the same place with with either model. It's how long be it is. Is it ten percent every four years or is it two point five percent each year. There has been frustration on the number of the customer's part. Including the business customers that have argued for the allocation that it was a four percent every year. And I believe Mr Thompson said we had the four percent three of five years. Now one thing I do need to clarify. Do the math on hitting four percent three out of five years how is it only a one percent whatever that total was. It I'm not out there nowadays this to your car. And your gasoline. Our base rate case when and the F. R. P.. That's what we call base rates which is like your car. And your maintenance. Natural gas. That follows through separately we give you that number that's both components put together. A lot of the savings on that has been from declining natural gas prices. That can move back up and down as they often do. So yes the one percent is good but a substantial Porter portion of that. Is because of fracking and natural gas. But the idea is you do smaller increments. Rather than one big one. And this does the jets the netting. In a way that helps the customers because when you do a proportionally it gives the cap more T.. Nope that was responsive I got you but the site on a yes thank you quipall if it's a quick follow up please well under. You what what I was addressing in asking and I appreciate your explanation but. It it it okay it would appear to me that the the savings would be beneficial would benefit the state not having the whole all the hearings and that type thing that you do your commission then of inter G. have the flexibility to work in the house. Yeah there are seems on the consulting side but the kind you know that lawyers are very expensive but not as expensive the portraying savings. There is that even though there are some savings through this approach. When is working theoretically perfectly yes. We hope to reach that is we streamline it through repetition or our our first repetitions probably haven't done that but we hope to get there through more repetitions and streamlining. As is the case of any new statutory process thank you thank you Mr absolutely representive flowers you're recognized thank you I was earlier trying to get to some information that I think would be helpful. to eliminate the need for this. With regard to the investments because it sounds like the the interview did not recoup. the dollars that they needed to cover the investment. And and so I just wanted some clear information and I think that I'll go get there I think I'll get that but can you speak to the balance in the issues with regard to the larger industrial users because I know that there that came up in and the process that led to this and the conversations that led to this. And and I'll just stop there may need to follow up but I think I want thank you and. In my view the hardest decision that we have to make. When doing all of this is that decision because we have businesses that compete electricity the cost component. And the better price is coming out of Arkansas the more business is going to be done to more jobs but on the other hand those dollars have to be paid from somewhere and I also know there are folks that struggle to pay the bills that they get now. Hold and can circulate this I know we're on a time prince. If you read once this I have a copy of it for everybody here This is the energy information eight agency monthly data on prices. What what this shows is. Of course it shows every state the commercial is a lower rate than residential because they're cheaper to serve because they're large flat loads. The problem that we have in Arkansas is even know willow nationally. The ones in our neighborhood Oklahoma Louisiana and Texas or a little lower. And in Texas for example is higher than us on residential and lower on business so they're saying that bounce a little different there's no perfect way to do that it's a guide and it's hard. It's hard because you want your businesses to be competitive but it's also hard when you know there are folks out there that struggle to pay their bills and you do you. You go by guy and you go by the record we do a case. this is a legislative note negotiation that sets it where it is. Okay let's sum not seeing no other questions no there is soaring representative Murdock. Thank you. So on the the ticket on the on the solar side of this in the agreement or whatever was was worked out as relates to Angie's agreement with respect to third party solar you would not have been litigation the been holding up a projects is spend some of various things that happened in delaying the projects that we currently have out there on the streets was there an agreement by into G. two. Not do that anymore to not delay not interfere with the ongoing projects that we did you did you already approved that we haven't process but some are being held up I do know there are some in my district in the in the that it that I'm concerned about specifically this facilitates that. It's been very frustrating for me were looking at some innovative stuff to try to get ahead of what Washington might do to us with the EPA might do to us that has been just grinding and constant litigation. I hope that this will provide some context that will make that better. So. I'm trying to understand the the agreed to not do those things so it's two parts of this you got the is that the the rate and then you get the other net part of this may be part of this in there was some sort of a compromise or agreement or some conversation so I'm trying to understand as you as the PSC chairman who is supporting this legislation. In part of it is. Deal with some previous legislation as in previous a third party so little things that are going on I want to know is that agreement in place as a part of this To protect the consumer represent Alex very critical question an excuse about this protecting consumers a big part of this did not have been talked about a lot until now is the third party solar we have a lot of projects out here in there have been some delay in interventionist of litigation even of the entity has brought for so. Help me with that because that's a big part of this legislation. There've been lots of discussions. The seller folks are neutral on this they do not oppose it. And when I don't want to do is violate confidences by accident in a public forum. So how has represented Allen rest of us to know that this is not going to be detrimental the other part not the great ninety four percent part of up to four percent cap the other part of this legislation how do we know where it is not going to happen for mental I would not be supporting it because that is important thing for me as well. Thank you thank you representative Penzo and then representative brown. I'd like to make a motion appropriate time but I don't want to do it if they're still questions. I'm ready for your motion. But make a motion to pass. Okay. We have a motion to do pass on the floor and it would be appropriate for us to have any discussion among members to wrap this up. Okay Representive Maddox wheat we should give you an opportunity to close if you can. Thank you thank you Mr I'll close all close very very briefly so I thought this was a bill in the opposition so it's it's well I thought so too but but but they're great questions of things I just want to head on real quick. Who all is in support governor's office supports offer the PSC supports all the stakeholder support and there are other lobbyist involved too is that it it looked at who represent other interests no one's opposing I'm so I think that's real important in that one one thing Mr about the pointed out is that if if this doesn't become law doesn't pass is gonna lead to more litigation which could lead to higher rates for consumers then the last thing I want to say is a lot of you guys know frankly my district the last piece of legislation I would ever run to something that would hurt consumers and small businesses because I mean I live in a great place but that's all we have you know what we don't have a large industry so I think it it's a good piece of legislation and I would appreciate a good vote okay. Of reps we do have a motion for bit representative flowers you are welcome to Start our discussion hopefully start in the end maybe but was a. As always the end to everything yeah So I've asked a lot of questions because. I think this is an important bill and I'm mixed and I've expressed that with everyone that I've spoken to and I mixed not because it's not a good balanced piece of legislation that addresses several issues because I think it does that I'm mixed because unlike many of my colleagues districts my district is not gaining jobs and gaining population my district is losing population and we're very hard hit by the pandemic very hard hit by the snow storm and are not only dealing with IT issues that everyone else is dealing with with regard to you know electrical services and mounting Bills and unemployment we also are dealing with serious issues with regard to all water and so you know if. When we talk about something that is gonna on balance maybe benefit everybody when you talk about large industrial users Benefiting more than residence post pandemic it gave it garners my attention and when you look at on the one hand enter G. has we have some of the lowest electrical rates in the country the average costs for electricity in Arkansas as a hundred and eighty eight dollars however. the percentage that people pay in a state where we have X. to have pretty extreme poverty. bears out that you know. Seven other states that have rates lower than ours have also much higher salaries and so I'm I want to say that. I think that it's important that. As a committee. And as we flush out these issues we make sure that all of our people are taking care of and all of our peoples these issues are addressed so I just want to take this time and I thank you for the latitude Mister chair. to say publicly that while I do have very serious concerns that I've expressed to enter G. and who are always responsive to me and helping work through these issues I'm going to support the bill but support with care and a little trepidation as we move through this. Process and come to a vote on the floor and I'll just remind Everyone that you know we we heard. The amount of money that our cans and still and that's not going to go away while we rebuild our economy and just keep in mind that everybody's District is not a district where there are jobs that are plentiful and people in my district want to work and they want jobs and they want to pay their bills and so as we consider a bill to. What we know will raise rates. Outside of an independent entity let's just bear those things in mind and with that I thank you Mr chairman. Thank you representive. Members we have a motion on the floor to pass all those in favor of the motion do pass signify by saying aye. Any opposed say no. And there is no opposition our congratulations representive Maddox. Representative Gazaway. I think we are to that point H. B. fifteen sixty three members that represent eleven and represent Lundstrum will have to hold over your bills to the next meeting and members the vacation is over we're going to start meeting on Mondays just just because the I know I know we're not really getting extremely stacked up but as you can see we've got bills with no opposition that are taking us a long time so appreciate that you're properly vetting them but it is slowing is down a little bit so representive Gazaway. there you are okay. If you will identify yourself for the record and then you're free to present president. Jimmy Gazaway. My name is Jimmy Gazaway and state representative from district fifty seven help from the city of Paragould Arkansas. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman Before we get started there's several witnesses here I believe I think committee may be out in the hallway with the chairs permission I would ask that they be allowed to come into the room and I have one who I would ask the cheers permission to allow to sit at the table with me. Yes you may have one witness said at the table with you. Other witnesses I think with unless we have room in the room. We'll need for them to stay in the holding area. Okay if there's not room in the party if there's not room in here with there are some seats I mean how many are you talking about bringing in. I don't know how many are out there just to to the extent that there are some that are out that want to come in I didn't know if maybe that be allowed okay we are live streaming into the overflow. We have room for three is that right. Three can come in. I'm here there's more seats with the I guess we need a concierge out I'm not. Five seats that we can accommodate five. Okay two in the back three over here represent Gazaway you're recognized thank you Mr chair. Members today we have house bill fifteen sixty three many of you are familiar with this discussion we have we've had this discussion last session very extensively some of you were on this committee and you've heard that discussion and you're familiar with it some of you weren't and so we hope to make a a thorough presentation to you today so that we can cover all the issues. I also want to say that this bill was initially filed on February the twenty fourth and the bill that you see before you today is not the same bill that was filed on February twenty fourth there have been several amendments that have been made and I will tell you of course this is a bill that sparks some controversy and so they were landlords who have reached out to me and to several of the partners to have been involved in the separate about concerns that they had and so the bill that you had before you today is substantially amended from the form that it was filed and to address many of the concerns that we heard from landlords around the state so I want to make you aware of that again there been many compromises they have been made along the way generally what the bill does is in the first section of the bill what you'll see is an eviction procedure that does what I think hopefully accomplishes. What we've heard from landlords more than any other thing which is that they want a quick easy and cheap way to pursue evictions for tenants who don't pay or otherwise are violating their lease agreements and they'd like to be able to do that there District Court because circuit court the it's often times hard to get a court date in circuit court the the the dockets or are filled up with very serious matters for murder cases to a multi million dollar litigation and so sometimes it especially on a matter like this it's hard to get a court date in circuit court. The other thing is is that landlords wanted what we heard and what we try to respond to was through District Court something that would allow them to proceed without an attorney because the situation the many landlords by themselves and is that they have a tenant who's not paying. they have an obligation to the bank they have enough that they have to make they can't get the tenant out quickly. And now they have to go hire an attorney at two hundred dollars an hour to represent To try to proceed with this addiction so to the extent that that could be done through district court without an attorney again a quicker easier and cheaper way for landlords to proceed with evictions that's what we see in the first part of the bill which we worked really hard to do to address that concern. The second part of the bill is the warranty of habitability. And when we discuss the warranty of habitability I think from the outset it's important for us to understand. This is Arkansas is the only state in the country that doesn't have an implied warranty of habitability. And so I expect that you're going to hear from landlords today many of you have probably heard from landlords in your email who have said things about how this is going to make it so much harder to operate is going to make it so much more expensive and what I would tell you as every other state in the country has some form of an implied warranty of habitability and. Landlords are are still operating in doing well in those states is like many of the issues that we here at your the legislature. This guy's gonna fall if you pass this and then what we ultimately realize is we pass something in the sky didn't fall and so what I would tell you is number one for those two and I know I know you've heard those concerns I have expressed that this is going to make it possible for landlords to operate I think that's just a little over stated there seem to be operating fine and all the other states who have this so what is the implied warranty of habitability basically that is the of of an implied warranty that a residential rental properties are not dealing with commercial properties but that a residential rental property will be fit for habitation. And so what does that mean that means that it's going to meet certain basic minimum standards and so what kind of minimum standards are we talking about. And this bill lays out about eight minimum standards we started with with a much more extensive list and that has been pared down and it's things like hot and cold running water. Plumbing that works. Electrical wiring that safe. smoke alarms. If there is a gas or so not in every unit you know if you have a rental unit that doesn't have a gas source you don't have to go by carbon monoxide detector but if you have a rental unit that has a gas source than a carbon monoxide detector. But basically things that are so basic that in twenty twenty one we would expect that for any rental housing out there these are things that materially affect health and safety and. The other thing that I would say that this law attempts to do is to bring balance to the landlord tenant a question. there are work national organizations that have said that Arkansas has the worst laws in the country with respect to tenants and and their rights. And I think that's probably accurate There's history about how this bill came to be many years ago when Arkansas adopted the uniform revise landlord tenant act. Arkansas struck every pro tenant provision from that bill and so we were left with a uniform law that only address the concerns of landlords and that address none of the concerns of tenants. And so what I would tell you is this bill attempts to bring some balance back to that equation again we're not asking for gold plated fixtures were not asking for a jacuzzi tub in every a rental unit we're at simply asking for the very basic minimums that affect health and safety save wiring safe smoke alarms from fire hazards from carbon monoxide poisoning hot and cold running water locks on exterior doors again the most basic things that we would hope to have in place in twenty twenty one to protect tenants. Now the bill is more complicated than that you know I'm I'm not gonna say that those are the only provisions in the bill one of the things that you'll see is. If you create an implied warranty of habitability but there's no enforcement mechanism that implied warranty is essentially meaningless it's like any bill that we passed around here if you pass a law that has no teeth to it you might as well not pass it I mean it's just you're just passing something for the sake of passing it you know maybe it's of work best efforts you maybe wanna make a virtue statement maybe you want to just check a box but unless you have some and enforcement mechanism or teeth to these things then an implied warranty would be meaningless and so some of that is in the details of this bill as as you kind of drill down on it about how would be enforced but the and then there's a a piece at the end about anti retaliation essentially again trying to bring some balance back to the landlord tenant a question if the tenant goes to the code enforcement agency for instance reports a code violation they can't be. retaliated against and kicked out just because they went and made a complaint and so again that's a simplification of that piece there's more to it than that but it's a retaliation piece at the end so generally from a three thousand foot view that's what the bill is done we have we are does we have consulted again with heard from landlords from around the state heard from others we've been through this debate including last year we're aware of the various positions I'm not saying it's a perfect bill it's not it's not gonna make everybody happy and as we know with how legislation works around here that typically is impossible you're just not going to make everybody happy. But it's a meaningful bill that goes a long way to help tenants and the poor people in the state I also want to say that there's a very broad coalition of support here if you just know the co sponsors on the bill we have Republicans and Democrats your support of this bill I've said it many times the issue of safe housing is not a Republican or Democrat issue this is a basic decency issue this is a minimum standards issue this is a self respect issue for the state of Arkansas I mean do we think so little of ourselves that we won't even have some minimum standards for residential property in the State of Arkansas. And so I think that's what the bill you know ultimately at its core is really about and again the broad range of support that's out there from from lots of groups that many of you know the Arkansas advocates for children and families for instance support of this bill the A. R. P. support of this bill Arkansas firefighters association support of this bill Americans for prosperity the support of this bill again it ranges you know across the spectrum for support and I think you see that because it's a good idea it's such a good idea that every other state in the country has some form of it and so I have professor foster here as we begin to go through the specifics of the bill and I think that she can probably help with those and again I don't want to belabor this too much but If the chairman wishes I'm happy to take questions or we can proceed with a more thorough explanation of the bill let's have that prevents foster it introduce yourself for the record. And then I guess both of you could be if you have an opening statement you could give that and then we will have directions our question is directed towards the two of you okay thank you can you all hear me. You pull the microphone just a little bit closer to you. Can you all hear me yes thank you. I thank Hey to leave my mask on but I haven't had all my shots yet so. Okay I defy yourself for the record I'm sorry just about to my name is Lynn foster and I'm a law professor emeritus at the UA little rock Bowen School of Law I also was a uniform law commissioner for the state of Arkansas for eight years which was a great honor and right now I'm the president of our Kansans for stronger communities which is a nonprofit and part of our mission is to get these get this bill passed so just a few words about the bill and about how it works As representative Gazaway pointed out this bill is basically a compromise it contains an eviction procedure that for the last ten years landlords have said that they wanted that's what they said to the commission on the study of landlord tenant laws which this legislature created over ten years ago and that's what they've said ever since and we've given them that it places evictions the District Court it's a simple procedure and it will it is our hope that it will allow landlords to be able to read the represent themselves and a pro se basis and we're working with the Supreme Court in order to change the jurisdiction for district courts and also so that the court rules can be modified slightly like they are in small claims court right now so that entity landlords could come in and represent themselves. with respect to the implied warranty and implied warranty basically has several different parts to it and it needs all those parts in order to to be an implied warranty first the lease can't. Contract with the tenant to to remove to take away the tenants rights and so section five a one of the bill does that it prevents leases from requiring tenants to waive their rights under this bill. Five oh two is the list of what the landlord must provide not just because the landlord doesn't provide something on this list does not mean that the tenant is going to have remedies first the landlord has to not provided second it has to materially affect the health and safety of tenants third the tenant has to notify the landlord that a repair needs to be made. Fourth the landlord has fourteen days in which to make the repair and there are some exceptions in there that give the landlord a longer time. and then finally if all of those things happen and the repair still has not been made then a tenant has certain remedies first the tenant can make the repair. we are requiring that a licensed insured contractor be the person who makes the repair and that the landlord be presented with an itemized statement and received the repair can't exceed of one month's rent. half the states allow this remedy of repair and deduct not exactly the same they all very in detail but this is not unheard of it's quite common in state law. if the tenant takes the landlord to court the tenant would be able to would be entitled to assuming they prove their case injunctive relief a court ordering the landlord to make the repair. For restitution. Damages is not a remedy here but if the tenant had expended money let's say that there's no heat and the tenant has had by space heaters or the tenant has had to move out into a motel and this actually does happen the tenant would be able to recover those expenses that the tenant had spent The the last remedy would be that the tenant would be able to terminate the lease and move out without being liable for any future rent and being able to get their security deposit back if they were entitled to it. so that's those are the next two pieces of the implied warranty the duties of the landlord and the remedies of the tenant. and then the last piece is protecting the tenant from retaliation and this is one of the biggest concerns of tenants that we have talked to and. So this is a part of the original uniform law over forty states prohibit retaliation against tenants and basically it It is triggered by a tenant doing certain actions and then the landlord taking retaliatory action so for example. Just got to find this place in the bill. If we look at. Page thirteen if we've got a tenant who complaints to code enforcement that of repairs are being made that compliance of a landlord and asks for repairs to be made if a tenant organizes or becomes a member of a tenant union or uses one of the remedies that the acts provide. If because the tenant has done this the landlord then turns around and increases renter fees tries to evict the tenants etcetera that's considered to be retaliation and a landlord would not be able to do that under this bill now that doesn't mean that if your landlord you can't raise the rent for all your tenants that's perfectly fine also but the tenant would have had to notify you that repairs need to be made you can't. The tenant wouldn't be protected if you move to evict the tenant and then they told you repairs needed to be made that's not going to be retaliation So basically That kind of sums up the act two other things if the landlord sues the tenant for possession OR for non payment of rent the tenant can use as a defense of the fact that the landlord has not complied if that is in fact the case and sent off the restitution if any that's owed to the tenant against the rent that's due. And then finally the last piece of this is tort liability for landlords this is a big concern for landlords we understand that landlords have nightmares about big jury judgments against them for damages and injuries and this bill specifically excludes tort liability and specifically states that similar to the implied warranty in Alabama which has similar procedure or similar wording at the beginning of the act so in other words if it's if a landlord Regis is duty such that tenant remedies are triggered under this bill a tenant would not be able to recover for. Injuries doctors bills things like that. Okay they can recover for restitution for property damage but there's no tort liability there's no punitive damages. So So. Echoing representative Gazaway his words. We do feel as though this bill is a compromise it is the result of years of negotiation back and forth with landlords and realtors and tenants and the we very much hope That you support our bill. Thank you art are you ready for questions now. Yes I am thank you. Representive fielding. Thank you Mr of representative Gazaway in the bill it talks about Repairing. If if the tenant does not have is that the landlord does not repair the damage for those is done that the five hire a licensed plumber allies in the Christian to do the repair and and the bill. Can be no more then the monster rent the was is considered in the bill that you know those guys you charge forty five dollars an hour seven dollars for services the you know you got to read six hundred dollars I mean. What is it what was in it but I thought about being able to help on that in. Yes so and and professor foster can probably expound on this a little bit but there's a limitation on that provision about repair and deduct and it's not to exceed the amount of one month's rent so in other words attendant can and they can't just go make the repair themselves you know this one of the things that you hear from people there oppose the bill well this is going to allow a tenant to go cobble something up that would not be to my standards and then And then I have to live with it and they can withhold some of the rent and typically these things are worked out between landlords and tenants I mean I don't think it's uncommon you know even for my own personal experience if landlords and tenants can kind already agree to these things if the garbage disposal goes out and I've got a renter who says Hey I don't mind to go put the garbage disposal and here's the receipt for how much it cost say take it off the next month's rent that's fine I think those things happen pretty regularly but to to your point You know is there a is there a limitation on it yes you know obviously you wouldn't want is someone to say there was a problem with the air conditioner and go expand ten thousand dollars on a new air conditioning unit and then tell the landlord I to pay your rent for the rest of the year so we specifically limited it so that the amount of the repair can't exceed that the value or the the amount of one month's rent so if one month's rent was seven fifty dollars you could you know they could make a repair but it could not be it could not exceed that one month's rent and professor foster again maybe would probably be able to expand on that some more I would say there's just there's a a little bit of an exception to that and that's if the landlord and tenant agree then the amount can be larger than one month's rent but again we felt like this is part of the balance between the interests of the tenant and the interests of the landlord and by allowing more than one month's rent You know it it would help some tenants but it might also increase the possibilities for abuse and the one month is we felt like a reasonable time it's not gonna help everybody all the time but it definitely will help some people for example if your landlord didn't provide smoke alarms and didn't. Supply them after you requested them you can go out and purchase a smoke alarm and install it then would become the landlord's property you could deduct that from the rent so that that would be that would be an example of something that that tenants would be entitled to do under the bill. Thank you representative Boyd you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I have several questions all just start with one and then asked to go back in the queue page five section F. lines nine through thirteen I just want to start with that one this is just a basic question. This is a very long bill and it just concerns me that we start adding things in there that might not need to be there so that we really need to make that statement or is it governed elsewhere in the lawn we just struck that no at the to your to your point of. As I was read the bill this morning I noticed that again I thought that have been taken out that should have been taken out and I guess that kind of got lost in translation that's absolutely not necessary and that'll be stricken so and I'll just I'll say this in in a complaint for eviction or really any complaint filed with the courts. The complainant the. Typically has the right. I'm sorry so it. In any complaint filed with the court circuit court District Court typically the complainant or the petitioner the person bringing the complaint has to verify the complaint and we have that requirement here yeah and the verification is just simply a statement of the things back some matter set forth in this petition are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief all of this other stuff is not necessary that should have been stricken and it will be taken out it was the. If you have a follow up you need you may do that okay fine representive Lundstrum. I have quite a few questions so the staff can stay in the the clear as well you mentioned that there's this repair and deduct thank. first of all he's going to pay the liability in the insurance when someone does a repair on the property and property. The the repair isn't done correctly you said it was a licensed person but you don't know that. I don't allow somebody to come on my property and do any type of heating and air repair that is not my person that does it I pay the insurance on that property so what's the recourse when someone comes in and does it wrong I'm still going to have to pay for it is that not correct. well first of all we would hope that the landlord is making the repair so that this doesn't ever have to happen yes I would say ninety nine percent the landlords and the state did. if. If the landlord could require evidence from the tenant that the contractor is licensed and insured they're going to get an itemized statement and received We are. Open to working on this a little bit more with some landlords we've been getting some really good feedback about it Follow. Yes I find that hard to believe this this bill is been out there and we had a thirteen page change yesterday their landlords that are in there legislature and they were not consulted they were told there's an Arkansas landlords Association they were not consulted so I find that hard to believe I would love to see habitability bill but this isn't a habitability bill this is a lawyer employment bill what we we need standards but landlord's competition as a standard if if I don't provide a good product I lose of I was a customer so I'll stay in the queue of it and I have more questions. Okay representative rating and that will come after I mean I don't think we can I don't think we can let that go unanswered well if yes I'm sorry if there was a question and you want. yes you're right you're right so answer thank you Sir so there were landlords that were consulted landlords association has been involved and has been consulted many times now there may be so you know there are my understanding is there multiple landlord groups I'm not I don't think we can consult with every landlord groups around the state but there have been several landlords who have had input into this legislation and I will say it this look this legislation has been on file since February the twenty fourth in the phone works both ways and if somebody wants to contact me about it and share their concerns they certainly can't. Okay representive ray. Thank you Mr chairman so if you if you own rental property that sent an entity like an LLC and you go to District Court for an eviction you you have to hire an attorney for that right. That has typically been on the ruling of the courts that that an LLC can't represent themselves in court that would be the unauthorized practice of law I think for purposes of the of this bill. we're gonna ask the courts to reconsider that In these instances so yes but you're correct but there's no okay but there's you're gonna ask the courts to reconsider that but there's no there's no guarantee that they would acquiesce that. There is actually a rule in small claims court that allows certain small entities to represent themselves and that's what we are asking the Supreme Court to do to extend that to these eviction cases and that is the case in some states it's not unheard of so I think there's a good possibility that it would happen but we have talked to District Court judges and we have also informally spoken with some justices on the Supreme Court and so this is something that we have already started working on and we're taking steps. Okay but it follows Mr yes. okay so if they were not allowed to represent themselves I mean that the additional cost of hiring an attorney. Would be substantial and and a lot of instances. I'm I'm not sure that I agree with that because this is a very simple procedure and basically the complaint is going to be a form that's available on the internet that can be filled out so. All along we have developed this procedure. With the intent that no attorneys be needed because that was what the landlords ask us for if we could have put that into the bill so that could have happened we would have done that and if you look at the bill in fact it says that if the General Assembly passes this by a two thirds vote than that would in fact change the jurisdiction of the District Court to allow jurisdiction over this so so some of these things are outside of our control but we are doing everything we can to change them and because it is such a simple procedure I think that a lot of landlords would find themselves if they do have to hire an attorney is not going to be a significant bill at all it's much different than the current unlawful detainer which is being used there's no need for a technical pleading to be filed the procedure is much simpler and it would result in a much smaller bill from the Attorney. Okay. Thank you representative Boyd we're back to you. Thank you Mr chair and this is a quick question I think but I still think it's important to ask in the state of Arkansas one of the concerns that's expressed Bledsoe say in my district that I represent and an Fort Smith but say I have a rural district and I've got a trailer in the middle of nowhere I mean. This state law it's going to apply all within the the borders of Arkansas and their concerns that this is gonna puts them some people out of housing in a very poor people out of housing could you just speak to that and and help us here that other side of the argument on that place. well first of all I would note that This bill does not apply to any landlord who only owns one unit so they are totally exempted from anything in this bill And and it a lot of those landlords rent to to low income tenants secondly jim Metzger is going to be testifying directly to that issue he is an economist who is also a landlord and so I would kind of like to let him answer that when he comes to testify so as not to waste your time. Represent Lundstrum were back to you. Okay. Members any additional questions for this witness. And and of course for the allotment the sponsored representive fielding. There you go by Ted spine you said this is this not dealing with one dwell in the land laws here to find that. Yes if a landlord owns only one unit concerns had been expressed in the past about small landlords mom and pop landlords who you know didn't have the capital to possibly comply with everything in here and so we went ahead and made that change after speaking to a a number of people in the housing area who all agreed that small landlords are not the problem in our state it's the landlords who who have a lot of units and to just maintain them in a very poor manner that's the problem. The eleven you're recognized. Per share represent Gazaway just clarifies for me the provision that that that's in this bill. That would allow me as a tenant. To contact someone at my own discretion. To come and do a repair or installation without notification that I'm doing that with my landlord. And then explain. Where the justification was with. The one month rent cap on that. So. First of all there has to be notice to the landlord that there is a need for repair so my understanding of it is you have to give fourteen days notice to the landlord. that this needs to be repaired and if the landlord after two weeks I has not taken any action to make the repair and. Then the. Our tenant would be allowed to contact a licensed and insured contractor to make the necessary repair. And then would be allowed to deduct that from the rent not to exceed. The value of one month's rent. so again you know we wanted we felt like there needed to be a limitation of this have been discussed with several landlords because you don't want tended to be able to deduct a huge amount of money and then claim that they don't have to pay their landlord for a long period time but at the same time you want a tenant who if there's a condition that is materially affecting their health and safety for instance I told the landlord that there's they're not smoke alarms in the apartment and. The tenant then goes and has those smoke alarms put in that they would be allowed to. After fourteen days after notice the landlord to that I don't have all my mask you to put him man landlord doesn't put a man then the ten it could put a man and then deduct that amount from the rent again but we felt like there needed to be an appropriate limitation on that so as to. You know not affect landlords to drastically. So I I'm not sure that fully answer your question professor foster probably can expound on that some to. President of I'm sorry go ahead no if you have further answer go ahead now I just wanted to emphasize the part of of representative Gazaway sensor that the landlord has has gotten notice about the repair being needed and the landlord hasn't rich made the repair and there are also a number of exceptions that allow the landlord to take even more time to make the repair so it's not even necessarily for paid days it can be longer so they already are they know that there's a need for repair. Representative Boyd you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair and and again I don't want to belabor this point but I'm still trying to wrestle with this and and. Become comfortable with it so eighteen dash seventeen five oh four. There there is a concern that you know if the landlord evicts that all of a sudden the tenant is going to have a lot more rights to to come after the landlord and there's going to be counter claims if if you will so representative Gazaway could could you just address that and and help me understand how this really strikes the the right balance in in both for both the landlord and the tenant please. So I will go back to my initial point that right without a remedy is no right at all if you have a bill that sets forth rights but doesn't allow someone the ability to enforce some then you effectively have something as meaningless and so what it would do would be allow the tenant to make a claim that. Of these standards have not been met you know in the event that they are sued first you know if those things are truly occurring we did try to build in some safeguards there that if at the tenant brings a defense that's frivolous if it's found to be without merit if they raise it for some improper purpose then you know the landlord's entitled to attorney's fees the and all sorts of things so but again I think the the point with that the provision is. If the remedy work to just be you can move out. You know it's like when you play a game with some if you're if you're playing a board game with someone and you get mad as if you like you can just leave. And sometimes that's people's responses and very situation Blake you can leave. And that's no that's not a real remedy if you if you write if your rights have been violated then you need somebody to be able to enforce those rights and so that's what that provision seeks to do. Representative Lundstrum you mentioned that landlords are entitled to the attorney fees or damages correct. I think the bill says that yes okay how do you get those if there's the tenant isn't allowed to it doesn't have the finances to pay this. And that's a great point you know that as of you know let landlords I would be very concerned about that there are lots of people that I've encountered in the fifteen years that I practiced law or parliament going on fifteen years that practice law that are judgment proof and it's a very sad thing in our society but there are people out here who you can get a judgment against them and you will never be able to enforce it you can't get blood out of a turnip no and you know or some of these ten it's going to be those those types of people I would say that's a possibility. It's a very distinct possibility and it's going to cost of rent to go up on a lot of people I want to follow up questions please yes you mentioned smoke detectors which any landlord worth their salt would have a lot of smoke detectors and do you have one in every bedroom in the hallway in the garage Is a landlord to inspections every six months to check for smoke detectors and batteries and all that kind stuff we do in January because a lot of tenants will take the smoke detector batteries out put him in the kids toys. What's the remedy for landlords when people remove the smoke detector batteries or just get tired of listening to the ignoring beeping and just pulling off the wall what's the remedy for the landlord when we're put at risk. Well so the requirement under the habitability warranty is just when you move in there have to be smoke alarms and I think says that there have to be batteries at the time that they move in you know clearly if you documented that if you're doing your inspections if you if you've done the kind of the proper things then if they do that you know they're gonna be the ones at fault and the bill very clearly. makes a there's a clause in the bill that very clearly sets forth that a landlord is not responsible for any damage caused by the tenant or any actions taken by the tenant and so again you know if they rip the smoke alarms off the wall remove the batteries landlord would not be responsible for that I'm I'm responsible for everything that happens on my property even if it's not my fault I still have to repair the property still have to pay the taxes the insurance the maintenance that thing burns down somebody dies. It's still my property I still have to sleep at night so even if it's a frivolous lawsuit I still get to pay for. So would you agree well it again I think that can happen today I mean whether we have this bill or not other landlords they get sued in the in the very circumstances that you've described and so I'm not sure that passing this bill as it is going to change that. I think it opens it up to more lawsuits and that's of concern. I'll get we'll we'll move on representive board. Thank you Mr chair back to eighteen seventeen five before I just. I'm I'm still struggling with this a little bit so I guess the question I have is let's turn around a little bit if you're the tenant and you can't pay your rent can you pay an attorney to help you in court to to receive this remedy thank you. under under five oh four The way that it works is if you are sued by a landlord and and you the tenant or the defendants in the action this this only applies if you're being sued by the landlord doesn't apply to attend who brings the. if you're sued and you have already prior to the lawsuit reported that a repair needed to be made and the repair had not been made. And if you had spent your own money living in a motel room buying a. A space heater whatever then when the landlord is Given their judgment against you for a certain amount of rent you can offset against that what you have paid that's basically what that sections that. And also will try to respond in that I think your question was what's the likelihood that a tenant is going to hire an attorney and the fact is it's very uncommon in these cases the tenants to hire attorneys it's in fact the vast majority of these cases addiction cases unlawful detainer cases that are brought. the vast majority of tenants don't hire attorneys the cases proceed without their participation judgments rendered writs of possession or entered and we have the cases proceed to a final disposition so. I'm not sure that that would change if they're not hired him now I don't. I don't see how this bill would. Because of the harm in. Brown. President of Clowney you're recognized okay you find and representive eleven. Thank you Mr represent Gazaway no you're not spoke even as late as last night on this bill you made reference to this is a multiple multiple session project that you worked on I do very well remember the forty plus page bill from last session and so I do appreciate the fact that you have worked diligently with stake holders. To try to make this. In narrow the scope of what this is really about it's about. A minimum standard of habitability you have. Put. Simplified specific things in there that this is supposed to protect. Both parties my question is. If this really has become the simple and we're really only talking about some some minimum things that must be done. Why can code enforcement not take care of this want to we have to create legislation to take care of this. Well number one there are many areas of the state where there's not code enforcement. And so if you live in a unincorporated area where you live in an area that you know it is a smaller town that that really doesn't have code enforcement that has an adopted local codes this provides protection in those instances You know to your point I think that. Many of the areas in this state that have adopted local codes in in many of those areas not all they're more stringent than what's even required by this bill so you know again to those people who would say the sky is falling. You likely live in an area who has a local code that is more stringent than what this bill sets forth but for those areas of the state that don't have a local code that are in a unincorporated areas small cities that have not adopted codes are virtually have no code enforcement this would set forth that minimum standards that we expect people to make. Thank. Can I add to that a little bit thank you Even if there is code enforcement depending on the local government that hasn't they may be very slow in coming out the landlord may be allowed to take a long long time to make repairs and it's also unfortunately not uncommon for landlords to retaliate against tenants who call code enforcement. And I wanna make one more quick point. And we can move on. But with respect to code enforcement one of the provisions that was initially in this bill was that a violation of the local code would be a violation of this law and we took that out because we don't want to get in a woodland tangle state law with local codes if somebody if someone somewhere some city has a local code they're responsible for that and we're not gonna tie that up with this bill but that was a provision that had been in previous versions this bill that's been taken out so. Representive Penzo you're recognized. Thank you Mr of representatives we appreciate all the hard work you've done on this over the years and I know I tried to work with a couple years ago and help you know come to some sort of compromise I guess I guess one of my concerns and if you could kind of explain this a little better You know I've got to get a responsibility to you know protect public and protect the landlords in my position as a not just a legislator but as a realtor man that's what I do so I guess some concern about if if attendance allowed to make. Repairs to property or improvements you know just using smoke alarms as an example a quick Google search will show their smoke alarms from five dollars to two hundred fifty nine dollars million. You could that's a huge you multiply that per room and had to water the controls there to prevent attended from going out by the two hundred fifty nine dollars you know smart. Smoke detectors it linked to their phone and I mean how do we correct that type of a situation to so it's not abused and the would you know and and making repairs that are legitimate that the those are my concerns that you know because I don't want to be working on my properties that are my guys because I can keep my costs down because I've got guys that do business with a reputable five get somebody in there I mean again I appreciate the intent I just. If you can explain how the costs noted you know not. This is an abused in the and how are they keeping the cost down because attended just want done they're not worried about the landlord's pocket books so if you if you could address that I'd appreciate it. Yeah I think you make a good point you know that think the situation that you described in that many people envision is the worst case scenario tenant and I'm not saying that those folks are out there they are the I think in the vast majority landlord tenant relationships they typically work well. invalid if there's a serious problem in the unit the tenant is going to notify the landlord of that and under this bill the tenant would first have to notify you before they go out and do that and give you time to repair yourself so if they don't tell you that there's a problem it doesn't apply they have to tell you first that there is an issue. and then you would have the ability to go out and fix it yourself the issue is if you let it linger and don't. you know then what can the tenant do if they're sitting there in some insufferable situation and so you know again trying to balance that we said well the tenant can make the repair but the repair can't be more than the value of one month's rent you know that was one limitation I agree with you I mean is it possible that you get that tenant who just wanted to be an absolute jerk and I would say I know I can by fourteen dollar and fifty cent smoke alarm but I think because I don't like Penzo I'm going to five two hundred fifty dollars I suppose that's a possibility I just don't see that probably happening if I'm a tenant I don't wanna spend anymore money because come you know you have to put yourself in the tenant situation is coming out of their pocket first in that instance and so do they really want to go out and spend two hundred fifty dollars just to spite you. There may be someone who would I just see that is probably unlikely scenario. Can I add to that. Thank. Yeah if you look at the bill it also says that the cost is limited to the actual and reasonable costs so if I were you I would be arguing that a two hundred and sixty dollars smoke alarm is not reasonable. You're recognized thank you Mr I mean I'm just using smoke alarms as an example I mean this disclosed plumbers electricians and then what's reasonable if that's the charges they charge I mean that's reasonable some I've got I've got a plumber that probably is half to a third the price that you're you're you know average plumber out there is an he's he's my go to plumber amend its. It there is no I'm just like so just use smoke alarms M. sample but what if what if the landlord doesn't. What's keeping them from making okay so if someone makes repair that I don't deems legitimate I've got to take him to court. Is that right I mean because if they could go out make a repair to the property that I might not a made because they consider an issue and I don't consider an issue an information for example amend any property that I own it's a rental property and if I've got a leaky roof from a fix it because. That's my property and I don't want to be damaged but I mean what what protections are there not to. Inflate the cost of a minute or their protections to protect the landlord from inflating repair repair costs. So I think exactly what professor foster said about the the reasonable reasonableness standard with respect to the amount. that they expand this is limited just to be reasonable under the circumstances and again you know I would just say that. He is easy to imagine the very worst case scenario but. It is number one they have to give you the notice and so they give you the notice you're going to know that that point that you can send your plumber over there here you have a you have a good. Arrangement where the. And they can make those repairs it at a cost that's acceptable to you I think this provision only really kicks in if they give you notice and if you let it go on for a long time without trying to take any action and then of course there's even provisions that you know there's exceptional circumstances they can extend that period of time for the landlord even longer but there is a reasonable this and and just press sponsors exact language for. It also has to be a repair that materially affects the health and safety of the tenant we can't just be any old repair it can't be somebody buying a towel rack and charging that the landlord you know there there has to be a serious problem it has to have been reported nothing has been done and then the tenant can make the repair. Under the limits we just talked about. If you're the landlord and you disagree with that you say the this is a towel rack this is not then. Charge them the rent. Representative DO you want back in the queue you're fine representative brown. Thank you Mr chair I've got a couple of questions see I might have to go back in the queue one of my questions is really simple. In in the I figure prints not working. In the bill there are several. References To That the art the that the rental agreement will terminate upon. Okay so with the rental agreement terminates. I mean conceivably the landlord and the tenant can say okay we'll work just logger heads and I'm going to move on top didn't wouldn't necessarily need need to ring you have you know lead to litigation. In my understanding that correctly absolutely. Then another question I have if I may Are there I did not see that did not get to read this thoroughly I tried last night this morning by adding it to finish are there protections in here for the landlord in case there's something like a roof leak or the water line to the refrigerator is leaking and you know and they don't inform the landlord and then the damages become excessive instead of easily repairable. I mean is that is the tenant required to let the landlord know that something's gone wrong yes ma'am absolutely. The tenant is required to give the landlord notice or none of the. Committees for the tenant kick in the landlord would not be considered to be a non compliance if the landlord is not notified threat happy kitchens rotted because the the leak has existed for a long time if the renter's inconvenienced while that's being repaired that's just their top lock that's something that I would say is caused by the tenant by the tenants in action and that that takes the landlord out of the duties imposed by this bill. You can put me back and we will do that representative Gazaway I'm sure you're aware of that the time and and we do have a long list of witnesses what what is your. Pleasure I mean we typically don't go past noon and I know we've already lost several members get ready to lose another couple what is your pleasure on the bill. I actually I mean I would defer. To you Mister chairman no doubt will make the call and not not when you've got witnesses that are traveled in Your your You tell us I understand that that you may have some additional amendments that might need to be considered. That's true what I would like to do to the extent that we can I mean the witnesses are already here so if if everyone else feels like that they've asked all the questions that that they want to ask me if they have if they'd like to hear from the witnesses and we could get get those folks taking care of so that they don't have to come back and then if we want to. but the vote. Later than I'm okay with that and we can make the amendments that some of the members have suggested that that's the way I would suggest to proceed but the last I would agree and I think members need to frankly be cognizant of that fact that if we're tracking this on or not allowing people of traveled in so I thank you for making that recommendation so we're going to move to the for and against since we have had a substantial amount of time with with just a witness for we will move to the against and I have made a commitment that I will accommodate representative of clover who is also a landlord for him to be the first against Speaker. Representative. Or is that a group I'm sorry. To get the name right. Degree representing the group five my apologies. Please identify yourself for the record and then you're recognized and representative Richard McGrew district twenty two. Got me here in a tangled up in my hands. Thank you chairman and committee. For having me here first of all I would like to say that there is good landlords and there's bad landlords good tended to bad tenants they always have been and there always will be I also want you to know that as I am I would be very transparent I'm coming you day more as a landlord I represent a group properties which is a the company that owns the heroes the whole several properties over in hot springs that did on some here not in Little Rock but also those both commercial and residential but very much mostly residential I also want you to know and understand that I I care about my teenage also agree that we need to habitability bill. I also agree that we need some changes in the eviction bill that we have I would also say that we have we do have the tenant landlord laws we do have code for so we have a lot of things already but I do agree that habitability bill is needed. I also would want to know in the fact that cares attended if you go into any of my offices you will see on the wall assigned this is ten it's matter. And I I preach to my staff constantly that they do matter and what we should always look from their point of view. I don't think that we should make this decision based on a motion we can hear a lot of testimony from both sides you can pull a lot of emotions you can see your horror stories from the tenants that are stories from the landlords that. When I think of good stories when in our side I have a lady named miss Catherine that lived in apartment bill and when I bought it is six unit apartment building two bedroom central heating their dishwasher pretty nice apartment in nineteen ninety one she was paying three hundred twenty five dollars a month. Unfortunately miss Catherine passed away last year in which he passed away in my apartment she was still paying three hundred twenty five dollars a month I really do care about my tennis and I do think we need to have a bill of the bill. The things that I'm bothered about on this bill first of all I'm not privy to what happened last session and what we've been working on I just found out about this just right before the bill was filed with all respect to a representative Gazaway Because I know he's done a lot of work obviously done a lot of work on this bill and he kept he cares about that. But I want him that told him I was a big landlord and I would like to talk with him about that bill he said yes I'll get with you. And any file the bill. Then he came back he said Hey I'm going to get with you on this bill. And he didn't but I will say that representative Boyd said because I said I care and I know we need some changes he said would you meet with someone to say sure he took me to the capitalist group now you understand I'm a new new representative so I really don't know who to trust and what to do so when I was putting that Mr with a lobbyist in the lobbies his attorney there Becky said trust me I took a step back because I said what landlords are you working with are you look are you talking to the people that are in the trenches and they said yes but they would not give me information but then they call me back it might have been the next day and asked for my information I should Wallace worked together. And what I would asked respectfully if you wouldn't rush into this I must have time to really work to make this bill work. And thank Nico was her numbers her spots that represent Gazaway want to go ahead and do this bill. So I thought about it over the weekend at that what what's the right thing and I go to represent gas away and so I did that on Monday morning said Hey we had got together and he was very respectful NASA said I understand I've just been so busy I haven't had time to and I'm sure that I know how busy we are if you will speak to the to the bill itself anyway I understand your I understand your frustrations my concern is that this bill I'm not an attorney. Yesterday it was a thirteen page amendment to a twenty page bill that's very legalistic lead written I could not get the building gross until five o'clock yesterday afternoon and then I had meeting sums up to one o'clock trying to figure out what this bill says I'm not an attorney so I had a very difficult time but to take the things on the bill to bother me again a lot of the changes on the habitability were really good and they really address some of things we need to address one of the concerns is the one that you all had on about the repairs at ten it normally doesn't have the expertise to deal with contractors all that so people ring someone in. and has them do the work. Without getting a written contact my contact and how much it is the contracted bill an enormous amount and then when the tenet couldn't pay it he gets out lien against the building which the landlord would have to get a lawyer and all to resolve we can cost a lot of cost in that sense that's one and have appeals the bill the. On the other part I think it did prove to the Haitian of hell this bill was done is that it asked for a written receipt if I get a payment from a cache Shepherd electronic deposit or all that getting the tainted electronic receipt I just don't think that was thrown through this very small amount but there's no other changes we said that he injured quickly he can get to read them and and really approve them so the process of the eviction does increase the cost it also refers to it if the District Court which is not available at this time I think this Aprimo court has to rule on it or has to be a majority vote in the legislator let me just take you through the steps if you go through the victim first of all most landlords don't give you an objection OSHA soon if you missed the payment most of and try to work with you and want you to make it. I've been a lantern for a long time and I've dealt with a lot issue so my systems are set up pretty strict so on the tenth day after your rents not due you get a notice from a and you have to come and work with me and if you don't you get innovation notice according this I have to give you an addiction a notice that says fourteen days later so I'm already and let's just say ten days then I go another fourteen days I'm twenty four days into that and then I have to file suits ahead and because most people that hold any property on hold in a healthcare corporation you're going to have to hire an attorney to do that so I hired the attorney to file suit then he has to get a court date which according to the bill has to be twenty one days or the next available court date which could be further out I know it says it can be set further in but I've never seen a court do that they all he said and further out so I've got the fourteen that the ten the fourteen and twenty one and it could be longer and then I have a certain time which I have to serve this tenet according this bill by the civil procedure which makes me serving in a certain way intimates that that may may be aware that and Dodge that. That the person is presenting that notice if I don't get it is specific time in order to get to the court date I got to start all over again from the beginning the way this is written it can keep attended in your unit for months and months before you can get amount it does raise the cost of what it calls you to do that. Of. And I would also say from for me it's a landlord also would like initiative that a lot of landlords or ram off the ramp walls that have invested in two or three units that supplement their retirement and. And this would impact them. I also work a lot in drug and alcohol reform and I cater to that and also the government's re entry program back here about the people at the bottom. And I work to get those that have a felony conviction or others into my apartment complex so that I can help them transition back into life and we tell you there nothing that brings me more joy than when I see family come back together and that work. But unfortunately it doesn't always work and when it doesn't work when you're dealing with that population you have someone in your unit that is causing a terrible environment and you need to be able to get him out as quick as possible. I am very concerned that that will hurt me and what I'm doing it that segment of the community because you're going to with this bill and the way the eviction is reading you can you stand that person and keep them there a long time and increased cost. You know if you ask me how we can fix this we not slow it down and take time to I'm the biggest landlord in the house and you don't want to talk to me. You know I I don't understand that I care about the lower in and I'm not I mean agreement that we need to make changes. So I don't understand why there's a rush to this understand we worked on it last session but I just wanted a few days you know so that that really concerns me and the way that this bill is written if your grandma grandpa has three units you got eighteen pages it that tell you mayor many code you've got to go I know more than most landlords I have to really really study this to know where I'm at grandma grandpa are not going to know. And they can be impacted in big bankrupt because of it in their retirement years a lot of a lot of units are held there. The way that I think we can help bigger units we need we need to work within is one of the things that I am working on that already contacted the reduced a commission if you understand the laws and the way it is to become a last and property manager it's it's we need to work on that there's no there's no education required the test only had ten percent of property management stuff on it. So again I will say what this bill does do if you ask me what it does do. It increased the cost to the landlord it will make a lot of attorneys a lot of money able put more homeless people on the street and I thank you thank you members any are there any questions for this witness. Okay we're gonna move to the fore and aft and I'm just going to I don't know if there's coordination from the witnesses but if representive Clowney. Thank you Mr chair could I just ask that we consider if folks have driven from very far and sing folk that have different from all that what I was just getting ready to say if the four speakers can coordinate among themselves and you know that everyone has traveled from a great distance of. Please let them come forward I I mean I'm just go through the names and if you want to say that you would defer to someone who lives further away I'd appreciate that the first name I see is. Mr. I'm sorry of dance last name is Vance. So you're from Fayetteville okay we'll go ahead and come for. And and please said identify yourself for the record okay I'm I'm I have a governance I'm a student at university of Arkansas and I'm also a renter and fate Bills okay you're recognized to present most students at university of Arkansas do rent to have somewhere to live most of us don't live on campus and most of us to live off campus to rent and I'm one of those students and in doing so we experience a lot of issues working with landlords as some representatives brought up a lot of landlords you compete to make good properties but also there's so much need of housing that many students have a difficult time finding somewhere to live especially as it gets closer to the deadline for needing someone to live. So I can't take this off okay thank you and so if you pull it close to my house yes thank you so some students have trouble finding somewhere to live because they're such an overwhelming need for housing off campus and because of this you end up living somewhere that doesn't have these things that are being brought forth by this bill like the where I currently live I live in a gas heated house but there's no carbon monoxide detectors provided by the landlord and this is a problem that a lot of students come into also doing other things that are running by this bill to give you more safety just in the habitability standards so myself and several other students from university Arkansas come today and I'm speaking on behalf of a few of them just to say that we support this bill and we think that it's necessary for our own safety. Okay. Thank you very much any questions for this witness. Represent Lundstrum yes thank you for coming and I wish I could give you my phone number if you need a place to rent D. if you ask your landlord for cover monoxide detector. it's in our lease that we're supposed to provide certain things ourselves okay we provided that for yourself from yes me in one of my roommates went on in well it only cost us about sixty dollars that was still kind of a large cost for us as were lower income and of go to the university based on scholarships okay thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony thank you NO less the same thing on the against speakers I'm just going to call names and if you know that there is someone else that's baby troop driven for further distance if you'd let us pass over I have his first name on the list is Mr Passmore. Are you doing today. Punish them passed more Jonesboro Arkansas hello small landlord under fifty units of single family homes. We were down here two years ago. And I'm also written represent Aussies are so landlord's association and stuff. None of us were called to help work on this bill we worked on it a couple years ago as the realtors association. We had a really narrow down bill they didn't come forward. But we were not even involved in this round. Mister Gazaway is from our area. Twenty miles from where I live. The the state association I don't know which landlords I talked to the state association was involved. Of. This is really not a real great time to be bringing this forward the pandemic going on July landlords are. Not getting rent. And they're struggling to make their payments. This is gonna put an extra burden on them. in our social ation we try to make landlord's better as with our association does that make landlord to become better landlord's. Enforcement of this bill I don't know who's gonna enforce this bill I don't understand who's going to enforce this. Taking a rant deducting rent from repairs. I mean that could be a disaster. We've got thirteen chapters in the State here with that close to a thousand landlords in that associations across the state we have around a hundred and ours And northeast Arkansas actually we were not consulted. We think we should be involved efficient anymore re writing of this. We're not totally opposed against. A good bill. Just it needs to be a fair bill. Per the other bills that on these repairs if you get into a squabble with the tenant back and forth deserve and have to be currently you can I. take revenge on us turn things up. Jamaica's fix things be behind on the rent is it need to be current for this to be in effect or can they be six months behind. You know I mean there's a lot of. Unanswered questions. I'm not a great public speakers on. The den Fund thank you. But anyway I mean. If there is no basis for rewriting you know this came up quick does we we heard about a little while back but last night before we came from Jones wrote they added pre written part of that. We don't know if we've got the current or not we think we do so many you know we're not bothered need to be involved with the real ID only involved is fine but the landlords need to be involved in what's going in into this bill. Most of the server good landlords retired tried to ride. The man was talking about earlier I've got a ribbing with over twenty years I haven't raised a written twenty years. But I take care of our property. She calls every year with the territory the same things every year we just go over and take care of it. But she's going to call me every year with the same two three little things and we just handle it most landlords landlords are with me for Jones were all top notch landlords I've taken one landlord's taken rough properties and turned into good properties and got good tenants Sullivan. We don't need of all paid with that brush. Let me see if there's something else I've got on here. I am also landlords are small landlords there's a lot of a lot of talk about one landlord well you know really how come he gets away with certainly has got to Kate. But most landlords are small landlords to maybe three properties as their retirement its investment for their retirement. You just this is just not the right time for this bill we don't think it if it is we need to be in on the writing of it. I think it's all I've got okay well thank you and we do have a question for you from representative Boyd. Thank you Sir for being here today and and this is I'm going to ask you the question but it keeps coming up so you just happen to be the person sitting in the chair when I ask this question I keep hearing that will if we've been involved in the riding if we had known I guess my and we're we're all could land a landlord's except for these people over here so question I have to. I don't. So if you say what you want. Other than the bill and the fact that there is a bill that's going to be state law if it passes can you point to specific issues that are really going to put these mom and pop. Landlords out of business and and really mess up their retirement into if your really okay with the bill and you you would do that why has your group not proactively offered a bill why is it always reactive because this isn't like this is the first time this is shown up thank you. I don't know how many years I've been coming up here it had been a lot but I was it was four five six years ago we tried to do something back then to need it to get stalled I don't know who's dollar amount but it didn't come forward Blake said we were here two years ago in on this come up with something that we thought would work not going through what was presented and it just it it income for legal aid one happy with that no one way. Yeah but it was a bill may have been a perfect bill but it was it was something for the tenants and the landlords and it just died when Y.. I mean the repairs as a big that's a big thing for a lot of people. smoke detectors carbon oxide testers not a huge not huge issue there I mean that's a safety issue. but there's just a lot that we need to look at this bill again you know as as been re written thirteen pages I guess my said we've not got a real chance to sit down and look at the rate rise we need to look and see what's in there and be involved. Then I can tell you that all the things in there that bother us. Okay representative via phone. Okay all right members any other questions. Thank you Mr Passmore precision test run. I would go to the the fours And again if please let us pass over you if you're our local Andrew culture or Kucha. Okay thank you Barbara Parsons. Miss Parsons. She is are are there still people in the overflow. Okay so we'll wait to see. If someone comes from that area. Going. Going. Okay. Not here okay of been Hammond. I don't even know if I need that but yeah I just if I yourself for the record my name's Ben Hammond and I'm here today on behalf of the Arkansas professional firefighters association I've spent the last twenty years working in in fire protection in some way former fashion and I believe that I believe the fire prevention is key and I believe fire safety can make a big difference and as I sit and listen to the the committee members who have spoken those who of who have left already you know I I I feel like everybody in this room would probably agree of fire safety probably not issue right I mean I don't know if I if I pulled the room I don't know of anybody who is saying I don't really think that smoke alarms are important I don't think they save lives now by carbon monoxide detector save lives problem is the people that are not in this room may not feel that way riding and representive Lundstrum brought up a good point earlier when she said that any any landlord work there's all kind of pay attention to those things and I respect that and wish everybody here was felt that way everybody in the state felt that way and I certainly wish to folks in Northwest Arkansas felt that way listening to the University of Arkansas students just a second ago some of the things we run into a lot or. Well let's in our rental agreement or lease agreement that we have to provide those so can the fire department provided force or you know some things like that and so the as a fireman and as someone who you know. Cares deeply about the effects of of fire related injuries and deaths House I support this bill and habit habitability section of this bill on behalf of a lot of other firefighters and you know I will say this. As it relates to smoke alarms and carbon monoxide alarms there are a lot of stories out there things haven't gone very will for renters because of the situation they've been put in with eight simply can't afford some of those things and I think that just should be a given when they signed a rental agreement with the landlord that they are provided that basic amount of life safety I pointed out to someone earlier when I walked in this building that What I think we take a you know advantage of this sometimes I think we take this for granted but when this room we're all sitting under last safety devices there's one right there but still that device right there will tell us if there's a fire emergency in this bill needlepoint us to those exits there and those are not there because we were told we can put a man on our own those are there because someone decided that it should be the obligation of people operate this building And that they should be there and they should be there for our safety so I like this section of the bill and I think that the bill should be moved forward in that regard and I appreciate your time here and that. Thank you members any questions for this witness if doctor excuse thank you very much. Moving to the against I have Darrell cook. Thank you Mr chairman ladies and gentleman thank you very much I just got a couple questions and I will like to ask my questions to person against whatever could you you would not be able to ask questions you just be able to give your testimony. Okay. Page nine. Hey read measures in place to control infestation of rodents insects and vermin that materially affect the health and safety of the arguments. I'm a landlord I'm a thirty three year. Realtor I'm not here richer social Asian here for Darrell cook. Five I make my living now. On. Good tenants. I don't have a property one that I'd be Shaver any Odyssey. But I notified my tenants if this passes their rent is going up city five two hundred dollars per month the reason I want to ask Mr gas for this question I'm not attorney. Page nine. Lines thirty one through thirty three. The burning got out bono school if I read that that says that I have to contract with a professional pest control. Because I'm not very little longhouses because it might kill someone must prove their own thing. So that does raise the rent. I've got no pool being a realtor thirty three years I get it done for her dollars a month perhaps. I've got one team has been there nineteen years his rant today could be thirteen fifty but I'm only charging seven sixty for nineteen years Tucker my house he's got his first rate increase. Page ten. Go to line fifteen. Hey working large dialed devices on all exterior doors. Can we. Except storm doors I have a tenant is living in a brand new house wanted doggie door not go put a target order toward our door so I put any expense of three hundred fifty dollar storm door on the backside her door you don't have a lock on it for this call Mr against what I'm going to put a lock on that. Then if you also grow and I know I got to meet some trying to hurry them trying to smile they tell me smile. That I was here two years ago and. Do a good job let's go to page. Nine line eighteen. Tenet consent. Also let's go to Page ten line twenty five to consent jobber Arkansas all day the House getting shot. By somebody that knows would you thank the tenant is going to limit. Did they give that person consent to be on the property there's no turning. He ought to work on that work consent as a landlord and no maybe in personal it's all perfect. But Jones were Arkansas. We have shootings over meth deals it happens. In our neighborhoods. Hello to our neighbors. I don't think the person walked up on the property. Said the consent of the tenet. But as a landlord. I don't be responsible. And I'm not a thirty second point would take that word out. I'm for this bill not as a landlord association will remember as a person. I'm for it with some slight changes that two years ago you met we check out a bunch. But there still may be some takeout it needs to be simplified only visions because nobody ever mentions. I recently sold two of my properties because the area is a town there in. Lord help me that matter with the little to correct. They called me about five thousand dollars a retirement it moved that. Third tenets. That causes so much problems. That we don't want to fix their house because we want to move. Thank you very much and you're looking at buying a house for these arms order which skews me just sick leave we will you take a question absolutely okay representative brown. Thank you Mister chair Mister Kirk now I understand your predicament I understand exactly what you're saying but I have I have one rental property and I have my house and I have both of them exterminated on the same day it costs about eighty six dollars a quarter so a hundred dollars a month was a bit of an exaggeration wouldn't you say no ma'am. Okay because your house is clean my house is going. But when you have it ten It delays tuna fish laying around. State Farm all kind of food later he tried to get rid or roaches for how much to say he's getting eighty six dollars a quarter that that record pointed dollars a month see the commercial brokers all. Pardon me see if your person will come to Jonesboro Arkansas. Okay thank you very much the point of trying to may you don't have to have it if the kids tennis will stay clean. Thank you. okay we're gonna move to the for Donna Boyce. Donna churi. I hear some foot steps thank. Okay can go in Dr Gary Wheeler. Thank you all for staying here during your lunch to hear these comments really appreciate it I'm the president of the Arkansas chapter of the American academy of pediatrics representing four hundred thirty plus pediatricians and state. This bill I'm speaking in favor of it is extremely important and good for kids thank your body recognizes that but I do want to highlight some important things. Our state ranks forty ninth in the country in our American health rankings for instance we've got real problems with health in this state. Eighty percent of the health outcomes are determined by the environment kids live in and the social situation I live in and that's why we're weighing in on this bill it's very important two thirds of the children from low income families live in rental housing and so if that housing is not safe it just compounds all the other F. issues they face in terms of poverty at cetera. One of the specific principles of taking kid care kids is recognizing that they are more vulnerable to the environment than any other group of people they are it more likely to be injured in affected they lacked the judgment to avoid things like bad wiring they don't even wake up when they're bitten by rodents and bats they're breathing is more impacted by bad air in the nervous system is more sensitive to lead and other toxins my own experiences at children's hospital I have seen examples lots of examples of everyone of these conditions cockroaches were mentioned earlier. That's actually an extremely important issue chronic asthma is the most common to most expensive disorder that we treat in this state ruffle up to eighty percent of children who have chronic as more sensitive to **** roaches and will cause flares and worsening of their disease so my experiences of as a physician in my colleagues in my cat in the support this bill we think it's really critical I don't think there's a lot of disagreement about the need to move forward with the habitability at issues of this bill I just want to stress the urgency of trying to accomplish that during the session we've been behind for too long we need six the so thank you for your hard work to try to resolve the differences that you have in the bill. Okay any questions for Dr Wheeler. Representive Lundstrum. Sir I completely agree with you on the road to issue and the the I hate wretches in fact I've been I've I hate roaches thank you hi they are not your friend One of the frustrations I have had a only come when they're invited it's been a real frustration of mine is a landlord to have to meet with tenants and explained I have a number of rental properties and some of them you could eat off the floor there so clean they never have a problem with bugs of any sort M. some of them will freak out if there's one bug on the floor because they're so clean and then I have ones that absolutely don't care they don't care if there's roaches and I have had to explain to them over and over and other persons not question yes I'm thank you wouldn't you agree there's also an education component with some parents that this is a serious issue that they must address it's not just the landlord I would encourage thank you to educate parents and help us as landlords. We absolutely agree that needs to be an education issue not that's not a landlord issue it's an education issue right we we do that as part of our work I will point out I lived in Houston Texas and it is a a qual opportunity Koch cockroach Community that is that my home was infested with cockroaches the problem is once they're there they're infested and there's not regular maintenance they do get a foothold and I think this bill is trying to address the issue of establishing regular a pest control that will try to prevent that but again I'm not a cockroach expert I just can only share my own experience. It thank you very much thank you. Members I'm ready for a motion but I don't want to discontinue allowing representive Gazaway to close on this bill. But we have really run out of time. So what is what are your wishes representative. Pardon. He should be allowed to close the should be allowed to close restaurants and I'm not going to take a motion of immediate consideration because that would that would disallow you being able to close but we really are you need to bring this in. Two and ending in Mister chair I'm happy to close for the bill is my understanding that there were no not be a vote today. That was not. Resented to may think that was very clearly state. that's why everybody left. Okay well that I'm sorry I missed that because that was not the. I don't think I was the only one that missed that I didn't get that. Okay so we'll have. Okay we will and I apologize to those that may still be left on the witness list that have traveled Okay I'm seeing head nodding so go ahead now recognize your representative Clowney I'm just confused I don't know what the point was in prioritizing folks who travel from out of town for not gonna hear the folks that didn't travel out of town testimony on are there more people that we need to hear from representative Gazaway. I think there other people signed up the other plenty of plenty of people but. And I've been been trying to. and I think everyone's been very helpful in making sure that we hear from people that travel from out of town but I don't have notes here to tell me which ones are out of town if I could suggest representative and if I recall the exchange we had was about prioritizing understanding that we would come back and that he would pull it down and I believe that there were two other people who are raising their hands who came from a distance and if I could suggest Mister chair that we hear from them and then well if we know we're coming back to the folks who are local could come back at that time okay well of right now we're we're moving to the against so if the if we have an against Speaker who has been it is from out of town we can take them. Yes Sir hot springs. I will go ahead recognition. Just to identify yourself for the record Sir. Thanks. Yeah. Okay thank you my name is Russell Thomas I'm from hot springs and I'd like to read as quickly as possible run through a number of issues that I think need to be addressed in this bill. UP some have been addressed by other people the largest most looming issue is the one of attorney fees and even the non reimbursement of attorney fees as provided for in this bill Current law as it stands if you go into District Court without or with an attorney if your order an entity which any attorney represent you only on real property as an entity of requires that you have an attorney if this law passes that is the situation there there may be wishful message that sprint Corp will do something different than that but that is not the situation that's not what you're voting on your voting on on a bill that requires an attorney to do an eviction. Additionally in that there is a section that says that if two days before the hearing the tenant moves out then the attorneys not to. Abel's it to recover attorney fees so this means you can go into fault you can let this thing extend for mother to be on the default let the attorney pay probably a thousand dollars in attorney fees and this bill says that is not recoverable even though it's for not only the default of the tenant but his default and delay in refusal to move up during the notice period and requiring you to go to court and you still have to pay the attorney fee this bill is very heavy handed on that attorney fee side I think that's the major issue in this thing that really needs to be looked at. Of a few other items are in the bill you have to identify the tenants that this sounds reasonable but tennis moving in and they had the unit off to someone else at times and you can't get in the dentist is in that bill so the bill requires that you in the the suit and identify who the tenants are it gives you know method of doing that I'm just saying at times that is impossible and that's a technical issue I think that needs to be worked out in the bill is how do you identify who's actually living in that unit if the person you rented to bail the handed Office another party. there's some issues that representative member who referred to on service we're you've got a real narrow window probably about ten days in most of these to get a process server to personally serve that tenet of the notice of the court hearing. I've been involved in the large number of lawsuits and I can see a very small percentage of a was service actually possible within a ten day window. And if you have a tent this actually dodging a process server your only option then is to get an attorney a lot of published in the newspaper this process takes about fifty days what you're serving that tenant with is a notice of when the hearing is in that hearing is supposed to be within twenty one days and he's posted notice ten days beforehand you can't get your ten day window in if your only option under the rules of civil procedure is to go through fifteen day process so there's a technical issue there that needs to be worked out. There's another section here that the US states basically that if the house becomes uninhabitable in the landlord can prove basically that the tenant or his guest because that then the landlord is not responsible for it you can't prove who who caused damage to a house the the the general rule of bail mince is that when you give a piece of property over to someone they're expected to return it in the same condition that was given to and they're supposed to take reasonable care of it this section of this law turns that around and basically says that when you handed tenet of his property. They it unless you can prove they're the person who did the damages and such then you're responsible for taking care of that this section is we look at real closely represented recruit recruitment group mention the rental receipt issue a very minor issue but it is a real one and that is that people do not get paper receipts now days of the we have a lot of electronic payments we have a lot of other forms of payment and manual receipt writing is just not a thing And and twenty twenty one and that section needs to to consider all of the other alternative forms of payments are going on today I would say that most of payment systems do not give a written paper receipt nowadays They're of arson non negotiable positions in here about who takes care of something I've rented a house to a heat and air contractor who who wanted to take a discount he would take care of any kind of problem with it in there the curve of average plumbers who would prefer to do that I friended people in faraway towns who had handyman skills and at times you can can be much more. efficient by having a person of locally it's it's it to kind of range and take care process I think there still needs to be some to go should bility on some issues as to can a landlord and tenant agree to a certain part of the repairs if the tenant actually has a skill. taking that right away from them increases cost. DO number of RV and mobile home what rentals these eviction process is that require attorneys when you have a rental that may be a seventy five two hundred two hundred dollars a month rental if if you're required to hire an attorney to it's a hell of action on that you're gonna be years trying to recoup your expenses there so in a very low end eviction that that becomes a major problem there was mention of roaches I do think that there's a difference between a single family home and a multi unit and I don't think that the vast majority of single family homes in Arkansas have of extermination contracts most people find the the the the issue only comes up every three four five years they get or the road to take care of quickly in their their personal home and I think a lot of single family rentals if they're kept clean can have the same type of situation that I would like to see all address whether it's right to have the same requirements for multi family units as your for single family is on that those are my comments thank you K. thank you any questions for this witness. Thank you very much. Members with all deference of five yes Sir. Make a comment. You for or against. Will will will take this to be the ruling of the chair we will take one more four and one more against and then we will adjourn. Well I'm making my ruling. We're going to adjourn after one more four and one more against. Are you from out of town Sir just over there the lady that at all I think you have priority over okay thank you thank you very much for that. Please identify yourself for the record. Right thanks my name is Vicky. And. Okay I'm speaking for an. And no matter their age a mother's concerned for children out of their happiness and safety for my son Alec my concerns were few he truly lived and appreciated every moment opportunity he was given so I'm going to break this down in a nutshell okay you're limited on time nine was found deceased three weeks ago from carbon monoxide poisoning hi in his apartment and had he had a carbon monoxide detector I would be here today he was thirty four years old you work for the state of Arkansas social security disability commission he was a valued state employee he was a humanitarian and it's a great loss with the thought that a carbon monoxide detector and I would have my son here today yes thank you that. Man and thank you I'm so sorry for your loss and thank you for your testimony. Who will take won't one against yes Sir fuel identify yourself for the record. Your project is this. George frigid out Springs Arkansas when the biggest questions I have is we're in a world where the tenants when you rented it I have tenants come in they look I ask him Shoreham everything all of the things that you're asking for and they're they're. You go back six months later maybe you've never had any reason to be in there. The smoke detectors are in the drawer because I don't like to hear. They they have a roaches and you allow that out because you're joining per tenant had a. And you for trying to figure out where they come from they didn't take care of it there is a huge problem here is unscrupulous landlords unscrupulous tenants I have attended I went in there place just this week. And they have switched they misrepresented themselves and told me they were somebody they weren't and then they brought the person and they said they were which happens to be their mother and she wants all these things fixed after they've been in it for two years. And I should but all this damage they've done. And she said well that's not my responsibility we we have unscrupulous tenants out there the the biggest thing I see with is it the end of the day We have a huge problem with affordable housing all over this state certainly in hot springs Arkansas we have people that will come in and I've had an offer to to the. To to take anything when I was a realtor I would show on things and I also know of people that are living in. Crates in behind people's houses are using their bathrooms because there's nothing available for five hundred or four hundred. But if this goes in and we're going to add more regulation is not gonna be landlords like me and not like the ones we've heard from here today that are going to. Have the problem we're gonna raise our ranch coverage just as everyone is mentioned everyone would like to have a fumigation for bugs roaches at Sentara we don't do that because it would add to the cost whether it's the eighty six dollars on a contract for a quarter a hundred dollars a month for a larger house. This has requirements and that. As a landlord I will tell you it's going to drive up the cost is going to cause me to turn people away I can tell you for you the kind of people that are going to have the roaches and I'm gonna have other problems at the pleasure. Their detector batteries out of smoke detectors they take him out of the air condition thermostat and they put him in a kid's toys we're not helping poor people with this bill we're hurting poor people this bill thank you. Thank you. Okay members with no with the with no objections I'm going to set a special order on this bill for Monday. we will have other bills on the agenda but if there's no objection will take special order at that time we can entertain a motion of either immediate consideration or we can take more testimony but If that is if that's permissible I'm sorry if there's anyone that we were not able to accommodate they came from out of town but I think we've heard good testimony so anyway if there's no other business to bring before this committee we are adjourned.