Transportation, Technology & Legislative Affairs - Senate

All right. Senate transportation will be ordered the chairman season. Gorham. That to. We have an amendment for for this bill if you want to start with the amendment Senator Eads. Thank you Mr chair this amendment is to add a representative I believe it was Fortner yes as a cosponsor of the bill. Motion to adopt a senator garner second by Senator Hill. All in favor say aye. All opposed Like sign all right the the amendments been adopted if your proceed as as adopted all right ahead Senator thank you Mr chair the this house bill fifteen sixty two dealing with autonomous vehicles and if you remember in two thousand nineteen we passed a pilot program to allow Walmart was gonna be the first one to start this opportunity and and Run it a few trucks of eleven three is that correct in Northwest Arkansas and they've had been running tens of thousands of miles through that program over the last two years as a February twenty fourth at the some ways that they have is four thousand three hundred seventy six trips totaling more than eighty two thousand miles with zero accidents and are averaging more than four hundred twenty miles between operator interaction with the vehicle which means for for whatever reason the operator needed to do something to take over or or manage the the programming in some way and what this bill is going to do is going to remove the pilot part of this program are not will be continuing to oversee the program for the throughout the state hopefully it will be expanded to other locations not just in Northwest Arkansas but throughout the state and also track other business an industry that's interested in this technology to our state as well and I'd like like to have a Michael into from Walmart introduce himself and share some information about this program. I think Senator is Michael and the director of public affairs and government relations for Walmart Mr chairman there's a Committee happy to be here excited to be here as senator is mentioned we were here two years ago and ask for your support to the Department autonomous vehicle space we had a tremendous experience of the past two years as Senator Eads mentioned we work the Arkansas departures Education get approval for this pilot program it would driven over eighty thousand miles and it's images on the numbers I think the thing that I was as I was driving down here from been bill this morning the thing that struck me was it is a serious matter to the the time between a the safety driver has interact with the vehicles about four and twenty miles I could drive for bid build Little Rock back twice before I've ever had have to touch pedal or have taught the steering wheel with how well of these vehicles are doing so the running a route and it bill from a microfilm center to a neighborhood markets about a two mile route through debt through middle bit bill I'm all of our very busy congested normal daytime traffic they do this about three times a day we're sorry some videos and just it just a minute on what they're doing is I don't know if you've ever used online grocery pick up your your groceries on your phone they set a time to come by and bring out your car you never have to go in the store you never have to interact with people's which is been especially popular during the pandemic but what they do with this program yes they fill these orders that are not performance center thank you I come all up in the refrigerator Drug problem over dropping off then you can pick them up from there so that where associates in the store don't have to run those big cards around and trying to fill orders for doing it at a standalone site that's all they do fill grocery orders so it's better for us it's more efficient and it's something that we're distilling mark we're doing and something we found really helps our socials helps our stores that they're not having to the blank customer traffic with associates that are taking those orders the real excited about it and that's why we're back today want to that three vehicle limit is a limitation for us we do want to expand it remove that so we have an option to to expand it to more trucks are to try to do some. Thing else in autonomous vehicles we really feel like any technology that we that we can bring to bear want to test want to do it here in our home state of Arkansas bring those jobs the engineering and the design and operation jobs and keep them here in our home state's better for us we think it's good for the state as well and so with your permission I'd love to show you some video. Absolutely you you're welcome to proceed to the videos. She. One more. And so this is there's no music over this one but this is just in car camera and what you're seeing is that the safety drivers on the left exceed hands off the wheel figure out that all and then on the right on the bottom right you're seeing what the computer sees as far as other traffic the surroundings and the what it sees whenever it's driving then to the top right it's just that the on board camera that showing that the the roof of the driving this is about a two mile route the goes through Bentonville normal everyday traffic very heavily traveled street in the city and we've done this forty three hundred times so far in the past eighteen months zero accidents and we just we just really excited about how it's operating for us safety wise and also operation it's been it's gone very well. Makes a terminate resolve whatever issues you don't notice this is the thing that we heard of other committees at the truck stop way behind the vehicle stop signs I see something so far back this means that will I think you're supposed to actually stop are you need to be right up on about this that's what the algorithm the safety algorithm tells and how far back they need to stop from another vehicle. And these these the all the computer systems it's got radar and laser or lasers and and the camera's serve our motion system so I can detect whenever a fire truck comes around please police vehicle any they they're they're they're programmed to recognize all those all those things you would normally see on a drive and react appropriately as well so it's it's something that that okay again just great success with great success with. And we don't need to watch this whole video but your senate just see what what the computer sees what the driver sees and. I would be A we do I would just encourages the support of this bill we think it's important for the company with the support for the state to continue to encourage innovation in this space in particular and we just appreciate a good vote I'll be happy to answer any questions but I'm not. Senator garner. Thank you I'm very support of this bill so is it it's. It's also running off of the network has continuous network Sentinel it has onboard computers was kind of a Thomas both not connector otherwise how many times when driving to the driver actually of takeovers every situation we had document exam support of I think just work great I'm trying to think about more practical fix moving on how do you how does this work in more practical way it's person to drive grant what he was a disconnected for a while was kind of the results of the pilot yeah so for our experience so far that the driver just gets in turns on it and it goes it operates completely on its own it will if if the software determines that there's something that it doesn't how to react appropriately it'll kick it over to the driver and sole address there's maybe a second wife adopted to take the handwritten to do something differently we do have the authorization from the highway department's remove the safety driver and operate these remotely so instead of the person sitting there will be sitting here in a computer watching and they the same reaction the same kick back in DO document every time the driver take we do with a very how rare was for very rare so we're up to about four hundred twenty miles between the time to drug between driver engaged about four twenty also thank you and we do we do also sorry girls report that every year I would. Exactly how do that's one of the requirements of the rules I would want us to so it's probably actually safer than if you just had a human driver in there it's definitely suffer the my daughter. I figured I will say one thing that we talk about when the concerns with I heard some members say in the House transportation as with they want to talk about the pilot program was concerned with with job loss and I think what this does is actually create some different jobs we talk about in the Fort Smith area those people to go and get trained to fly the drones for the military for civilian uses well this creates an opportunity for similar types of training for people to be able to drive these trucks remotely if if there's a need for resetting in engagement room almost like you know headquarters in the military be able to manage those systems from those facilities Senator English. Yeah I guess I see this whole thing is a it just said here are all kinds of new jobs that would never thought about before I mean that's what our world is coming to somehow we've got to figure out how we help our Kansans understand where that New World is because there's a lot of fantastic jobs out there I'm just thinking about the software in the Committee active people to fix all that stuff as well as programming. Lots of different kinds of jobs out there. Well I would have one question to see the on the last page it says liability for an accident involving autonomous vehicles fully autonomous vehicle is determined in accordance with applicable state or federal laws. Do we have state law that covers that and and who is a liable party. The so that the the eighty operator must carry liability insurance just like a commercial truck would to some semi truck we based the laws based on the federal guidelines for commercial motor vehicle care just I think seven or fifty thousand dollars of liability coverage so that's maintained by the A. B. operate now the gets in an accident or has an accident law enforceable determine who is liable and then the parties work it out whether safety operator or the new members offering on the vehicle have you had an occurrence we have not okay senator Tucker. Thank you Mr chair. This is how I understand that. Either someone is in the vehicle ready to take over or it's being operated remotely is that the distinction between autonomous and fully autonomous or what's the distinction between those two the that's a that's a good question that I I'm gonna say yes but I don't know that if the navy expert was in your testifying I may be able to better to find out how public in but I would say I would say yes. Okay at this point have you always had a human in the car. And it but moving forward you'll be expanding in to more remote operation I believe that probably the first step that we would take it since we have gotten approval to remove the safety driver and this is just me supposing a digital team is is once that flexibility we can expand this operation we can try different operation try something different and I think the first step would be to let's test it out without a safety driver an operator okay. If you were right operating in a car or truck remotely is it the case that you would only be operated one at any given moment at a time you would be operating multiple cars or trucks at any given moment is that right I think that for the this program at this stage in our development I think that would probably be an accurate I would answer yes at this stage okay do you know if the if in this bill we're authorized. One two does not specify. If we pass this bill can you do more than one we have I think we probably could. And I will also say that I would apartments or transportation is the the authority over this and whatever program you want to bring to them we bring the program to them and they review it and provide comments and feedback specialist bill or safety issues like that okay like there's another will be another set of eyes. All right my I guess my last question is whether and the first video that music is copyrighted it in a plate on the Senate floor thank you simply that anyone in pain yes all right thank you thank you Richmond. Senator hill. Someone to Senator Tucker is set. I can say is I know Senator English to creating new jobs everything replacing driver to creating new jobs I can see that number coming down I can see one guy sitting there in driving six seven vehicles at one time that that's gonna happen to know how safe that is for the other patrons on the road whenever that happens right what I did this for here Lucy when you know what I do is going that direction so sure I do not want one and clarify someone that ninety at that point I think when you look at the the liability insurance we're gonna want to go to expand on the coast I was hard enough for me to drive one vehicle more less can operate one computer when I want to say it's hard enough for me to do that more let's have six or seven there especially on a day when I'm tired does laid out late one night or whatever and go in and in fully operate seven vehicles and that's going to happen at some point. Well it so I'm not gonna suppose exactly how how broad and how many vehicles a single operator would operate I don't know that I don't know that there's any current examples of of that happening right now in our times vehicle operations I I know that if we're going to look far in the future we could probably suppose that the technology has advanced to the point to where that's can safely be done but from our perspective our number one priority is safety we want to operate efficiently for serve our number one priority is safety and so we're not gonna do anything that would anyway jeopardized. Infringe upon our safety record so I I feel comfortable saying today that whatever the if this looks like in twenty years down the road from almost perspective we're gonna operate safely and I think this bill does provide those protections that you should feel comfortable about by allowing highway department to be that overseeing authority to make sure that that occurs as well make sure they still come. Thank you Senator Pitsch I want to thank you for bringing this bill but I also want to make a few comments before I ask questions one you mentioned the drone process in Fort Smith they deal. Journal your vehicles are dealing in the engineering terms you're turning right your turn left you're going for your in this plane a drone at the third dimension and to Senator hills comment we have multiple drones being controlled by military personnel same time because the required input is so limited that when you do require limited there's bills and will. On drone number two order number six it's when you get and all seven of a meeting some issue but they've determined you're capable of control in that mode where a vehicle again not three dimensional having the Z. axis just to would be even easier for a human to absorb with proper training my question is when you go to no driver. Of this when I went up and viewed these going is a great experience to watch him but I think you need to take your windows and make them black because if I'm driving down the road and I see a vehicle coming at me with nobody on there I'm going to do things right and I don't think we need to see an empty driver's seat and I throw that out there as I it it's an absolute because we drive. You know I. I remember learning how to drive because we learned out in the country and when we came to city parents taught us not you you have to watch out for the person that's going to be the idiot crossing three lanes to cut in front of you and I think that's going to be one of the biggest issues I fully applaud very supportive of this program. But I would ask that you absolutely without their having the windows non visible to the outside world. Senator hill. Senate. Senator hill your mind. Yes the the with their signage on the. Thank you. Yeah are you. I will say that there's the other let them I mean potentially limitless applications for this but when we look at opportunities this this kind of language allow potentially other companies that want to put their foot in the water in this area as well whether it be for you know commercial carriers for trancemaster interpretation or shuttle service back and forth between like an airport and hotel or other things like that with there's potential applications for them as well so hopefully this attracts other business an industry that has an interest in this field and and some of this language was taken from as he mentioned in some of the notes here from some of the best practices that have already been going on in some other states as well. Any other questions Senator Clark Turkey Senator Sir. Thank you Mr thanks thanks for a common enemy on on page three the bill there's just one change I want to ask about on line eight we're striking the language reasonably safe state and replacing it with minimal risk condition. Mysteries about that change that's what so the the minimal risk condition is more of an industry standard term versus the previous draft which was. But not more in house and. Okay. As far as changing safety standards is same same intent okay. Doing questions. Saying none of your clothes your bill senator. I think this creates an opportunity for one of our major industries to expand here in Arkansas and hopefully attract new people that have a interest in getting into this field as well as for potential opportunities in Arkansas I appreciate that I I move do pass. Second by Senator Hill All in favor say aye. All opposed like sign the graduation center you based your bill. Members of the we have a few on our list. for Thursday if you're cooperating with any of the sponsors please let us know what after we get done so we can run what we can on Thursday I have two on two on the agenda and the right now. Yeah I'm also if you have any Bills on the deferred list I don't know that we as a Senate body as a whole like my committee the deferred list we kind of set oh my gosh here's like eighteen bills that I as a chair I wasn't talking and they were talking to me we provide under the thing where you come talk to the chairman to get on the agenda. For a list of any committee please check the deferred list of all your committees because it's not getting dealt with very well. So. Just come up and come up after we get done if if you if you guys are helping with any of these bills and let us know so we can get on calendar for Thursday the No other business come before the committee saying nine the Senate transportation. As.