Insurance & Commerce - Senate

Share sees a quorum will start over the microphone on. Members if you look at your excel sheet you'll see we have a very full schedule today and a very full schedule on Thursday I will be not in attendance on Thursday and vice chairman Teague will be chairing that we're looking at what has to be done on Thursday as opposed to go forward on Tuesday we have two new bills on there that have not been assigned house bill thirteen eighty representative or a and what was the other one you told me fifty eighteen thirty five representatives Payton those will be automatically re referred to the following Tuesday so if you want to create a third column on your excel sheet eighteen thirty five and thirteen eighty will start off on Tuesday and then whatever else is not accomplished on Thursday will go to that Tuesday okay. DO you wanna explain what the process we're doing on this earns you want to mark. Okay we're going to start off as your agenda says where we can Kerr of the House conquer the House amendment and Senator Irvin you are recognized thank you members Mister chair this is just to concur with the house amendment that we placed on the House Committee and language changes simple amendment. I make a motion to concur with the house amendment. Okay we have a motion do I have a second. And it's been motion to concur this amendment. And the second was Senator Elliot all in favor say aye aye same sign. The The Amendment is concurred. To the bill now here's where we got to do some paperwork and make sure we're right we need to we do not need to hear the bill as amended is that correct she's done it goes to the Senate floor yes you're done okay thank you senator of an let's move on on our calendar of all of them would go that fast. Of full step into senator Hammer you are recognized for several bills will start with house bill thirteen sixty two. And we have an amendment on that meant ways does that. I have a. That's not. Okay let me let at least let him at the proper time Senator hammer you you have a motion at the proper time so I wouldn't. Longuet too much to tell us what we need to know about your amendment you're recognized. A thank you Mr after a lot of discussions of. I mean amendments pretty self explanatory it's going to provide the coverage through December thirty first of this year unless the of State and Public School Life and Health Insurance Board decides to extend it so we're going to put in their lap. Okay Senator Teague you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman so the board doesn't the board and like it or I mean why we go let them decide Senator Hammer I'm only that to discretion of the committee to decide what we let them decide based on the vote but I did talk to them over there they said the at when I say they I talk Jake who stepped in and he said he would you know he would receive it will put it in their hand to decide if we if we don't both the bill out as it's originally you know presented and I I'm sorry it's came in what the end date was like five years out then it's going to go away at the end of the year. Okay we have let's say I mean they could not for me one more I assume that they could put it all they could do it just as easily by ourselves without law. I would suspect that is a good assessment yes so okay what do. Anyway I appreciate motion thank you okay we have a motion Is proper time is there anybody else on this amendment we're covering the amendment on house bill thirteen sixty two. And once upon. The resolution of that we will then hear the bill that. We have a withdrawn motion there so. Any other questions on the amendment who. Okay what is the will of the committee I sent your committee member I'm assuming you have a do pass on the on the amendment do pass do I have a second. I'm not hearing and the second on the amendment so the amendment has failed so now we will at your discretion decide whether you want to try and work that some more do you want to go to the bill without the amendment let's let's press on Mr all right your. But house bill thirteen sixty two. There where you're going to to present the bill are you going to a bill number. Eleven fifty six now I'm I want president thirteen six to get the same decided you are recognized to present house bill thirteen sixty two without the amendment all right thank you so this was I'm sorry your a Mr you already thank you so bill self explanatory if we vote to do this is going to extend it to December thirty first twenty twenty six and I think probably most everybody in the committee knows what the bill what the bill does as far as program that it offers and I'll take questions okay Senator Hammer is recognized ready for questions are Senator Hickey first we'll go to Senator Ingram second thank you Senator Hammer I know you've been involved in part of this course everybody I think knows with the be the that so we have in the calendar year twenty twenty two they're going to be in the red and we're going to have to put money into that program not sure exactly how much but is a. Over substantial. also looking at right now possible way to redo maybe the government's of that whole entity because we put money into this A few years ago I believe forty three million and then now like I say we're going to put some more so I understand this may be a good program but with the cost and we're we're about to head I don't see where we can or we can do this. Thank you Sir. Senator Ingram you're recognized for a question. Senator do we have a fiscal impact on this we know of. The global realities of of of this use is as we know not Director rific of and I also know that this is one of the most for doctors of their malpractice insurance is extremely high because of the. Problems are associated with this so do we have any fiscal impact at all. I can give you the numbers that I have as far as what the true cost of the program has been if you'd like I can read off you don't I don't have a hand out to our west okay so in two thousand twelve there were a hundred bariatric surgery recipients there was a hundred eighty nine at a cost of two around in the soft okay two point one million thirteen is two hundred ninety eight at a cost of three point five in fourteen one eighty one at a cost of two point three for some reason fifteen was the lowest year forty eight at a cost of four hundred eighty one thousand last year twenty twenty there was sixty four at a cost of five hundred seventy eight the one thing in full transparency and just try to have a good policy there's three million dollars on each side that has allotted for these procedures last year five hundred seventy eight thousand now full transparency for talk DVD they said that the underlying costs as far as the of complications and the actual drivers to the you know to the program itself was higher than that but that's based on their numbers and their their calculations thank you are there any other questions for senator Hammer. Seeing none is there anybody in the audience would like to speak for or against this bill. We have none signed up since. Motion. We have a motion do pass from Senator Teague do I have a second. Your member if you so choose Senator Hammer thank you Mr chair okay yes I can was center at okay we have a motion and a second all in favor of house bill thirteen sixty two. You can have discussion yes Sir. Members I I I ate. I'm going to vote no on this and here's why I don't like this and I I don't like the fact that EBT has gotten the saying off into the ditch and now here we are again and I don't like the fact that we continue to go down this road because we had a task force and we the task force said that this was costing a tremendous amount of money they recommended that we not do this then here we came back with a pilot program and now we try to extend the private pilot program and the amendments I mean I wasn't supportive of the amendment either because no then these individuals can basically determine this and. Then they just come running back to us when it gets off into the ditch and I'm so tired of the financial responsibility over this program at the at the end of the day we have to make tough decisions about who's going to pay for what and I saw the data on this and it was ridiculous it was out of control and it cost these members of these health plans a ton of money and so that money is going to be pushed off on to the other members of that plan and I just I cannot support this and I just I feel like we have to just at some point say no we're not going to do this no we are financially irresponsible we got to make some tough decisions and this is one decision that I'm willing to make because I'm not willing to kick other people off and I'm not willing to limit their prescription drug coverage and I'm not willing to continue down the path to hurt everybody so is small group of people can have what they want so I would ask for a no vote on this motion. Senator Hammer but before well go ahead will go to you but I've got one other comment go ahead as sponsor I just want to qualified did you ask anybody here speak for against I did okay thank you didn't have anybody in the audience Senator Teague you're in line for discussion only thank you Mr chairman I it I listen to Senator Irvin comments but I think several. Health insurance care providers health insurance providers have been experimenting with with the. Allow any surgeries to see if they're cheaper to have people tenant healthy then it was to alum large and sickly and so with that the case and I think that as I understand it and a lot of those programs that's working out that there are finding that they're saving money but anyway I appreciate measurement there any other discussion to be said. Seeing none Senator Teague with the motion senator Hammer with the second all in favor of house bill thirteen sixty two please say aye. Same sign opposed. The Bill. The bill has failed thank you senator Hammer we will move on Senator Hammer to your second bill house bill eleven fifty six. We have an amendment on this. It's been adopted in committee and that is in your folders again eleven fifty six what you're hunting. Should be right above the bill if you're if you're folders like mine. Yep there should be an amendment that's already been adopted. And we're dealing with eleven fifty six as amended in senator Hammer you are recognized. Yes Mister chairman this is the nine one one bill right this is the nine one one bill and it has been adopted as an amendment on three nine perfect can with the chair Lau a handout to be given on this bill if the staff let me see at first but all will approve. It's lengthy but we'll go ahead and see what we can do here. The system data Mr magic to what it is no that's fine okay thank you this is some data that was provided to me in response to some questions at the members had it was compiled given to me some passionate out to. Give the idea the usage of the program that was seen to be the main point I don't really know if anybody here to help me speak for against this or present or not Mr none signed up. We have some Informatica Mr tester if you will introduce herself at the end of the day will that be fine. Please introduce yourself for the record yes ten eleven I'm the chief of staff for the division of emergency management okay Senator Hammer you're recognized to present the bill. Either in your words are hers. Thank you Mr I think we've really talked about this bill quite a bit and previous this is just a sporting data that answer questions as far as of the usage if you don't mind I'll recognize from Adam to share a few words that are to be fine. Thank you the last time that we were before you there were several questions that centered around the smart not everyone wants Clark prepare system that part of this part of the funding actually pays for that system so the handout is actually an explanation for some of those questions it simply give some of the data pertaining to one of the questions in particular what is the cost why had the cost not increased over time for the state of Arkansas if you look at the second page I where it says not one one evolution in Arkansas as this gives us information that pertains to all of the services that have been able to be provided through that program and I actually have someone here from rave mobile safety that can talk to very detailed questions if you would like to hear very detailed answers to those what we'll see if the question stations there then okay. Anything else the president Senator Hammer. No Sir okay are you ready for questions yes Sir okay committee Senator Hammer is president of the bill hope of help of missile ones are there any questions. The wishes of the committee do you need a little more time with that or can we proceed on. Justice just a minute we'll we'll sit tight. I believe Senator Hammer maybe you could answer this question we had a number last time we heard this bill. And the question was we had the number of how many people use smart nine one one but we didn't know if that was an annual number or that was over the history of the program because of its an annual number it's a great number if it's over the history of the program. He said number have we got to the bottom of that you modified for to be fine the sale ends up that this program. At the number that was provided last time is the current number of their users on that system so that it's not a cute it's not an annual it's the current number that's how many are using and can't would you approach the committee what that number is please. Yes. Share thank that's on the third page of the handout thank it was twenty thousand my right and then roughly. What. The second column came out we have a Johnny come to table now The be fine it helps answer the clarification. Please identify yourself for the record and you may proceed to answer. Thank you Mr committee members J. the French I'm the state director Smart nine one one. Okay you may proceed if you have the answer to the number yes Sir on page three column one or call in to our cantons covered by four nine one one profile if you look down does lasting role eighty two thousand two hundred thirty five that's through March of two thousand twenty one. So March eighteenth two thousand twenty one currently eighty two thousand two hundred thirty five constituents. Bye thank you for your input. Are you go ahead Senator Hammer. I'm asking this is a member of the committee as much as anything but if I interpret the numbers correctly it is on a growth pattern whether substantial enough for not will differ to the Committee make that decision but it is on a growth pattern. Centerman you're recognized for a question do you have those and I'd ask for a mass of these people. I want to know where these residents are. Senator Irvin I apologize know what. I wasn't aware that a map had been requested. I had asked because on the. I had asked about that because I live in a very rural area of the state of Arkansas and I my district is very rules and. We can't access a lot of different we if there's just inability to access something and I want to know how that affects everyone district and I'd ask for that map when we have asked for this information. Okay yes ma'am I'll be happy to Request and pull that information share your discretion but if that critical piece of information can we get it by Thursday. Could we get by Thursday yes Sir thank you a polling down that that that would be your call totally on that. Can we take any other questions make sure we got all those governing appropriate to take any and all questions account phone. Any other questions committee members Senator Elliot you're recognized. Somebody This may be an unusual question but I I need to ask a question through the chair of Senator Irvin if I. Center and I'm just wondering you know I I suspect this may be despite throughout the state but I'm just wondering if you're concerned about it not being everywhere would that be a matter of concern of what we need to do to expanded or what what what I'm not that would be something that would be deal breaker for the bill so process that's questions Senator. Happy to respond that I'd like to just see geographically how will this is working no I yeah I think they'll be good information to have and I'm just curious about if if because what I'm what I'm thinking if it's not a deal breaker for this bill it and unless there's something else wrong I could see us moving on and getting a head that's why I was asking that question but I don't want to put Senator Hammer in a position of moving his bill out if it is a deal breaker I'm asking that makes sense what I'm what I'm asking yes. I just yet I have questions about this and I had asked at that time for geographical map of the information and I'm out. Well I think the sponsor yeah I mean that's for sure duly noted yeah that that's that's all I wanna know it's just really your choice. Senator Hammer I take a run at a I'm not trying to kill anything I just wanna make sure of being effective in my areas being covered I mean I know I'm not suggesting that I'm not sick okay. Senator Hammer sure here's what I propose this is a House bill I'm just right for represent Ladyman because each house chair public health and we want that to keep rolling so what I would be willing to do is pull it down come back Thursday if there's no other questions we could make a decision on it is still has time to get voted out because it is a House bills long you don't amended and I'll get we'll get that map thank you Jean thank you and and we'll get email out to the committee and then everybody can walk in here Thursday and we can deal with this expeditiously so recommended last chance for any commission questions to be presented to the sponsor here. Seeing none let's move on to your third bill will pass over house bill eleven fifty six we'll go go to Senate bill six thirty nine and there is an amendment on this there's an amendment on this as well. Senate bill six thirty nine what is all. Thanks. Yeah. Thirty nine. All right let's deal with the amendment first senator Hammer you want to. Make a presentation on your amendment sure and this is in working with one of the major insurance carriers here in the state to bring about this proposed amendment which I'm agreeable to and I appreciate the input this bill is modeled after what we did with another bill dealing with the panda pandas diagnoses with regards to Medicaid which is now up believe an actor law but this is model afterwards as far as dealing with insurance carriers in order to provide to the treatment of those that are diagnosed panda pandas and the use of IV IG antibiotic NET and I did work with the a major insurance carrier to help craft this legislation that's that's what the amendments about for there any questions concerning the amendment only. We have a motion to adopt the amendment we have a second was Senator Irvin. Any discussion all in favor please say aye. Same side opposed. Your amendment has been adopted let's proceed on to House bills or Senate bill six thirty nine thank you thank you Mr the one thing to the amendment did is it added representative Dr Joe cloud who served on the pan pandas Advisory clout. The committee that has been reestablished so I just wanna make that distinction I did not give him credit where credit was due for stepping up and carrying it down there on that end up so there are individuals in the state and that have the diagnosis of panda pandas or going through the process of being diagnosed as to whether or not they have this disease and we have had established over at children's hospital working in conjunction with you M. S. what's referred to as the center of excellence and you may notice that in the amendment it actually specifically mentions the childhood post infectious and is the panda pandas center of excellence its established over there and so what this bill would do is working to give a pathway forward for insurance companies to be able to pay for the treatment but it's very specific to one particular kind of drugs in dealing with the treatment of those are diagnosed with pain and pandas and I work with a major insurance cared that specifically in there so it just didn't open up Pandora's box in case there was something else that a provider want to do that was to say maybe a billion dollar drug they would be forced into doing it there is a process in place and that is no quickly give it to you if the child is out there say in Northwest Arkansas which is a real example that is referred to the clinic here in Little Rock and the doctors over to claim determine that yes this needs to be a treatment process than that would clear the pathway for the insurance company pay for upon the recommendation of the center of excellence and with prior approval so there's some real safe gaps in there to make sure we don't have a run away because we don't we don't want that bad experience and so this is a very control process in order to get that process in order to get it through to where if ordered by the doctors that this could be a be afforded to be paid for by the companies. Are you done presenting your bill I'll take questions Senator Hammer is is done presenting is bill are there any questions for senator Hammer. Senator Hickey you're recognized just just one simple we we didn't mean to put January first of twenty twenty two yes and thanks for that and Mr wanna give up public explain because I don't want a caller the person's name out put in an awkward way that may be watchin but this was done today and the person I've been working with on one of the major insurance carriers has been tied up in meetings all day this is been a back and forth email working with bill drafter if this does not have something in it that you were able to although I think this is as good as we're going to get to all amended on the house and to that point Senator Hickey that was a date requested so that they could adjust their rates accordingly and have that window of opportunity to do it that's why that date is in there. Senator when you're recognized for a question so it might motion at the proper time that I would I would say a I'm not sure if people have and I'm not sure senator Hammer if you've seen the movie brain on fire. It's on that Flippo but anyway it's it's kind of a documentary about something that's if it's not this it's very similar to this but it's based on a true story of a young lady who is a writer at the New York Post and at the very good showed if you want to watch it and it kind of gives you an insight I think a little bit behind this and and if it's not this but it's very closely related to what this act is but it's it's a great it's a great movie to watch that anyway you really want to say don't you agree so we get down to a green to every senator Hammer and senator means a probably going to watch the the show on Netflix called brain on fire that for anybody that's all they're watching if they do watch that show bring on fire this is that that's very similar to what we're describing in this bill and it's a real thing and I think when it was brought I think people question that you know and so anyway just when you agree and for anybody watching out there just give the little plug yes I would agree in that that movie I think has a companion movie that I personally if you called my kids not crazy yeah Yeah because because a lot of get misdiagnosed with Different types of mental illnesses okay thank you thanks any other questions for senator Hammer motion passed to pass okay motion at the proper time we have any other questions can I make a quick closing yeah but I wanna see you we don't have anybody signed up to speak against or for the bill is there anybody in the audience here to speak for against seeing none Senator Hammer you're recognized to close a respected Commission but will give you a real life example because we have our constituency service work on this right now I got a call last week. I got a call last week by individual she is serving or what she is in Florida. And her child she is ninety nine percent sure has this disease which can get a position in Florida to even consider listening her husband is Air Force pilot stationed over in Italy I believe it is or Germany and so she is at home with her child who she's ninety percent sure we're working again that child up here to the center of excellence because the center of excellence is a regional center of excellence this will help greatly although it will not apply to the major insurance care that I'm talking about because she has military insurance but this will help provide a pathway forward for those that are in that position I just hope that we continue to add credibility that this is the real deal and this will solidify it shall I do appreciate a good vote and thanks for the motion and second okay motion at the proper time Senator Irvin you're recognized for motion. Okay we have a motion do pass as amended to as the chairs the second. Second set from senator Hammer any discussion saying none all in favor of Senate bill six thirty nine as amended police say aye hi same side opposed your bill has passed as amended thank you Mr chairman thank you senator Hammer we will move on to Senate bill five eighty seven that would be you Senator Teague. All. At least. Well that hurt. Thank you. I don't know cheered and cheered and recognize it Senator Teague you are recognized to present your bill Mr chairman we can wait another fifteen seconds for my phone quit drinking in in my hearing aids that would be helpful well I can hear everybody because or we could gather. will. A new book. The problem with this one more time Senator Teague you're recognized thank you Mr chairman members of the Senate bill little bill the Toda transformation is neutral on over the years I've been frustrated with the B. D. did something that I didn't know what happened until after the fact this would just let us know. In a timely manner of some sort that does something happen I think we've hired a consultant to work on this and the. The media is currently in the process of making decisions for the next calendar year this just would say EV's board would come report to the legislature. Okay let's let's let's follow a little bit there do we have any questions for Senator Teague. Seeing none is there anyone to speak for or against this bill. Seeing none Senator Teague are you close for your vote yes Sir that will take the motion. Moat Senator L. A. with the motion do pass centerman or the second discussion center correct nice this is great but I will go one step further and say that it's not always what they're doing it's also what they're not doing so this is a great step that's one thing that as you heard earlier we were trying to figure out. To do with the governance of this you know to try to get it worked out but that is also part of the thing is I agree anything that they do they should be bring before us but our problem is actually been that they have not been doing things and that's what caused a lot of the issue thank you and I do thank you for this undertaking thank you. His name in there. Okay any other discussion seeing none all in favor of the motion do pass on Senate bill five eighty seven police say aye. Same side opposed thank you and your bill is passed. I don't see Senator Dismang in the room. So I think let's do him a favor and go to representative Lowery House Bill eighteen oh two. Mr chairman with your permission I'd like to have the the insurance department join me I think Mr braiders here that would be great. Please identify yourself for the record and you may proceed. Not. Thank you Mr chairman numerator general counsel with the Arkansas insurance department. Thank you do you want to start representative or I'll start all right Europe trying goes far as I can with this this this was a bill that as you know The committee chairmanships were not announced until late to over in the house and so a friend of mine who's in the roofing business brought this to meet late in this Mr Prater will probably tell you we've worked with the insurance department is if we'd had early enough they've indicated to me and I'm not gonna put words in their mouth but that they like it so much that it probably would have been part of their package what it does is it the. I don't know about you but I I've had experiences with storm damage in my neighborhood baby a hail storm comes through all of a sudden all of my neighbors are getting their roofs repaired by contacting a friend of mine in the roofing business and I said will you know all these groups are being ripped would you would you go up on my roof and take a look at it you with upon the roof and he said but you Clark Is you purchase not damage here not so well hell in the world is that the case I mean it's the same hail storm it's the same neighborhood he said will a lot of these companies if you'll notice they all have signage out in front of in their front yard advertising their company they provide an advertising premium to the customers and they they represent to the customer that will cover the customers deductible. And that is done by basically you know check defrauding the insurance company and and saying that the insurer but the insured is not responsible for the deductible will. It was when represented wrecked recognized that this is an unfair trade practice for a roofing company to represent that they will cover you were deductible and that they would also in their paper work an estimate that they would present to the to the customer they would point out and it would be an twelve point type that That the customer is responsible for paying a deductible this keeps insurance rates down it also keeps claims down if people if the homeowner knows I mean all of us would love to have a brand new rules the deductible is the thing that keeps them from taking advantage of of of their insurance company and having a roof replaced on a whim just because the stock of the cost them a dime I know that you've already received that I've I received a copy of it A letter from the national insurance crime bureau this is that they support this bill because it does They point out that this is really contractor fraud is a widespread problem and it's not Arkansas is not unique in this situation and then we have also received a letter from the mutual the national association of mutual insurance companies they in their letter they would say that they represent that well over half of property and casualty of customers in the state of Arkansas they also support this bill so at this point I'll I'll turn it over to further explanation mist by Mr Prater Schrader you are recognized thank you it's hard to add anything to what represent Lowery actually just presented I will say that as we working with with him on this After the session began but with a few weeks ago of this actually amends the deceptive trade practices act and this is something that the insurance department will not enforce but the attorney general's office if you think about that makes sense refers or not licensed by the insurance department we don't have that hook in them but I did reach out to colleagues at the attorney general's office to let them know we're doing this and they were supported I'm not saying the AG's office supports this but they did not mind having to enforce this should become law so make that distinction and win win represent Lowery says this is defrauding insurance company that's absolutely right at some point the insurance company thinks for example that that roof cost ten thousand dollars to pick a number and the insurance company has a contract with that policy holder in the policyholder supposed paid certain amount and the deductible usually thousand dollars if that. Policy holder sharks that responsibility they're not living up to their to their end of the bargain and the terms of the contract and they are not necessarily letting the insurance company know that so that's a misrepresentation. There's a another approach to this which is out of the insurance department area but you've heard some of these cases where a company will come in and say well we will give you a premium up you put a sign in your yard three weeks after this project is over advertising our company we did the work they can see the good work and we will not thousand dollars off we'll if you think about that transaction followed on through the that roofing company should probably be sending a ten ninety nine to that policy holder because that would be income I don't think I've ever heard of a case where ten ninety nine gets sent to the policy holder so I'm not going to go down the road and say that's tax fraud but we're approaching something along those lines so that's why I'm there again we. You got with representative Lowery late we probably would have had this in our package earlier had we discussed had discussions with them last fall but we are while while officially neutral we think this is a good idea be glad to answer any questions that several questions are you ready for questions representar yes Senator Ingram you're recognized. just wanna make sure that we don't of capture unintended consequences of in trying to reduce the invoices residential contractor shall not advertise there's no way that you know it's pretty common hello the long company or a security company such as ADT puts a sign in their yard and and we're not going to capture any of these other businesses with this are we. I don't believe are gone I don't think so as I read the bill it's going to residential real estate repair and it's for transactions in excess of one thousand dollars that are subject to all or part of that being paid by the insurance premium I'm sorry of a homeowner's policy basically this would apply to commercial policies this I think preserve Lowery is targeted Wells the problem is trying to to target here are going to dress yes. Have. Senator Teague you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman is not the same thing happened to windshields. I thought I mean actually I ask the same thing with his first came up at from what I'm told every day it right and from what I'm told there there are some ways that that as long as our by knows what's going on a lot of a lot of the companies understand that with the and they go in they just cover the full amount is what I'm told is not a deception involved with that are there should be I guess there could be but that's pretty common I'm told. I don't know I've never had that done myself but I'm told it's pretty common practice so it and I think it should come on the readings will come less prevalent because the doctors are going to twenty five hundred now. Refers are less inclined to give a twenty five hundred dollars in there are the thousand going to go away pretty quick because I think it deduct we're certainly making a way out but. Yes okay I don't know. That and it seems to me that the insured it's paying the premium with the deductible right so thousand dollar deductible twenty by a whatever it is and that's the premium is based on and everybody's good with that now I don't see would do really make if the if the insured gets an offer accepts it. I don't see that it's a I don't see that the. There is anything wrong in that. help me to understand okay I think that I'm sorry go ahead no go ahead I think the insurance company like I said my example is making payments on the transaction it thought was worth ten thousand dollars and it thinks the court to the terms of the contract the the policy holder is going to pay one thousand if that's what the deductible is. If the insurance company thought it was really only nine thousand dollars at the end of the transaction shouldn't be paying eight. I can see how they would get to that but I don't I don't know that I. I don't know how I feel about that each day that thank you Mr chairman if we have any other questions in room Senator Hickey you're recognized so let me make sure I understand whenever the site files a claim. The insurance company sends out their own adjuster is that correct. Sometimes it will some many times they will and they by understanding is far as far as the price of what they're going to pay out on the roof is going to be based on some type of a computer module they've got they look at the square footage of your rule roof and then they come up with that say it's ten thousand dollars well they are going to take that thousand dollars out when they see and then a nine thousand dollar check to the homeowner but actually they don't send out the whole nine thousand up front they send six thousand and then they hold back three thousand I think it's called a preacher bowl of someone's. Depreciation but what they're waiting on is for the roofing company to then send them an invoice showing that it was a ten thousand dollar repair job what happens is that sometimes that that that route for many times that referred pads that number just to support if they're actually going to do it for less so the issue here is making sure that the insured the homeowner has skin in the game if they don't have skin in the game then there in any time they get an opportunity to get a free real if they're going to go for it and that cost is going to be passed on to those of us who are actually living really according to the conditions of our policy do you Sir do you agree do you agree that they hold back the example with the three thousand. That that's something that I'm here I'll do whatever I was the as in banking for twenty five years and what I would notice is that the insurance company was in their man out they figure out how much they were going to pay take off the deductible if there was a lien on the property than what they would do is issues a check to the insured plus the lien holder and well as I was I'm sorry with and and that was the amount that. That was just the amount of the transaction that transpired and if the you know if it was more it was more than you know that was up to the insured I guess to go back to the insurance company to try to negotiate if they didn't have to come out of pocket or feels less of course they put the money in your pocket I checked my note in in that amount that's held back is called recoverable depreciation so the entire amount is not sent out in one check that is static actually sent out sent out typically into pieces. And what I was going to add to what you said was I'm told that common practice is the it's the roofing company that actually submits that number to the insurance company there's a another it could sometimes be the policy will be either whichever way it gets that insurance company if they represent that that ten thousand dollar transaction was actually worth that but there's a deal that they're not ready to that's the problem that's where that think the deception lies. Thank you Sir. Okay to any other questions Senator LA you're recognized for a question. I'm trying to preach appreciate everything you said but then I think about Y. E.. I guess my devil's advocate. Why is it that I if I get a gig on the side here. What why why I'm not quite getting how is this person has done something so wrong Minus you know what we have but I guess what we are having and broken practice and get that part but I'm really question and is that fair. As you pay your insurance policy. And and and I would I would come back with that to say in the policy holder signed an agreement the contract and part of that was that they were bound to pay their share have to have the skin in the game is represent Lowery said what could you actually have hi my thousand dollars yeah every time I had it I might be less inclined to accept a roofing company saying you need to have that report on whether you're actually do or not it kind of gets into the the bigger picture of we get into into the mindset right to this point right of school why wouldn't it be interpreted I had two contracts I have one with them now the roofing company I had one with the insurance company. And and the the bump up against each other because someone is misrepresenting something to the insurance company on that contract with the policy holder the you follow that's that's where I think you I do want to understand what I understand what you're saying well so as a person who would have to pay for roof one day I if I thought I could get a four thousand dollars less and walk without thinking about this that might be my inclination. City or I said I see that that's a problem right I understand why you it doesn't naturally occur to you looks like you just got a good deal as a consumer or we also have a third party here the insurance company or okay is my question though if I have it you're my insured. And if I'm going to if I'm going to have to get a rules. I'm just trying to be fair about this and that and the way I need to stop in joint and move on but it might deal with you is it if it's gonna be ten thousand dollars that's what is going to be why you open my business over here with the with the require you in my business. Because we've cell towers with the contract does include the contact that you have with the insurance company obviously is paying the premiums you been paying the premiums but part of that contract is also conditional that if you're going to file a claim you're going to be responsible for a thousand dollar deductible the roofing company has created a way for you to be able to get around that no we're not in this bill we're not criminalizing behavior on the part of the the homeowner we're just pointing out that state law the the the twelve point type statement that would be included in that would be. All this up sorry. State law requires a person insured under property insurance policy. To pay any deductible applicable to a claim made in the policy it is a violation of state law for seller of goods or services at reasonably expects to be paid wholly or partly from the proceeds of a property insurance claim to knowingly allow the insured person to fail to pay or assist the insured person's failure to pay the applicable insurance deductible that is a state I understand you saying it's just a very good lawful business as it usually is and if you are the individual you just about by that law that that advantages business thank you so much I appreciate the conversation okay you do we have any other questions first representative Lowery. Centerman you're recognized for a question M. S.. Mr writer I I just wanna make sure that you and I have a conversation offline about something that occurred in regards to legislation that I filed or that was told to file so if you'll just around at the end of the committee and have like to have a conversation with you about that thank you. Thank. Any other questions. Anybody in the audience wish to speak on this bill for against. Seeing none signed up. Representative Lowery would you like to close for your bill. I am close for the bill and I would appreciate a do pass okay what is the will of the committee. I have a I have a motion do pass Senator Hickey I have a second Senator Elliot all in favor is there any discussion all in favor of passing house bill eighteen oh two police say aye. Same sign opposed. With the number of members in the room the chair yes mmhm and that your bill will pass with five yes votes thank you very much committee appreciated thank you. We will move forward then Senator Ingram we're gonna move to House Bill fourteen sixty seven I believe you're carrying that. A. You're the only no I heard so. No problem. Senator Ingram you are recognized to present House Bill fourteen sixty seven committee members thank you Mr chair and committee up what this is This is really to do away with a a program that work really well is established in two thousand five in the purpose of the alive program was to provide government assistance program that would help people that qualified for discounts on their monthly phone bills and thought that the room when we've started we had how thirteen of the nineteen small rural telephone companies elected to it to participate in this program. And of what is happening is that over the years a number have have of the gotten out of the program because they were alternatives that were cheaper and now of the You're not the universal service administrative company for the nation is doing it so there is no need for this program any longer and what we're asking this up by this legislation is it's an official alive is a still unofficial state corporation but it doesn't have any members this bill will delete the alive legislation from the code allowing the entities to dissolve and with that I'll be happy to take any questions. Do any committee members have any questions for Senator Ingram. You saying no questions is there anybody in the audience would like to speak for or against this bill. Seeing none would you like to close for your bill senator and grow closed and I make a motion to pass we have a motion do pass. Do we have a second. All right we got a second from Senator Teague. All in favor of of passing house bill fourteen sixty seven please say aye same sign apposed your bill has passed Senator Ingram thank you it's always great to be in the good graces of the chairman in the insurance and commerce committee. All right members we have a text from Senator Dismang that he had to go back to server C. or passing over Senate bill six oh one. Representative under with thought Senate wrote senator Hammer was presenting his bill and we're texting him to see if he can get here shortly Senator Ballinger is going to pass over is what I'm being led to believe. That. Good so. if. I am. If we can't wait about two minutes on recess we'll come back at twenty five after the hour and gavel back in from recess there and see if we can get these last at least one of these last bills. If you get those reading. Senator Hickey were trying to get senator. Hammer back to present representative under was built so. We're gonna give him five minutes of it is a terrible moved to Thursday. I don't believe so. The. We're. One thing we should probably talk about committee members as I will be here Thursday going to a conference of sanity is gonna run the bill all of the bills we currently have on the agenda we made narrow that down to just two members would still pass or fail five bill so that would keep us for Thursday that would keep us productive but we wouldn't encumber a whole lot of folks. Hi. It's just switching to that yeah we might do that. While. I have a health. We're on recess for about three more minutes of the member coming back. That. Yeah I wanted to go over to the wings with that be more appropriate. What's that. Come up here there really shouldn't. Yeah no one's ever most people don't enforce but. We try to keep them back there. Here six five. Two three four five. One two three four five. Yeah I'm about to get an answer on six six six. Sixty. Okay we just got a message Senator Ballinger plans to present he's on his way. You better go get him because he says he's come in. Yeah. Yep. Well we're hoping that Hammer comes back to present the yeah. So what yeah I do but I think a lot of your four and again or see all stepped out of the room so. Go down there we'll wait we we told them we go on recess for okay done in about three so if you want to get your breath I just got out. Thank you didn't have to do. This might be just Justice acquiescent that. Okay. Where did we catch all the people that had not more out there. I don't want to. I see Chad back so did you catch all of yours people to speak for against. Yeah. Mr. Bruce you've got your folks to speak for against okay. Okay we've got Senator Ballenger in the room so we're gonna wait about two more minutes and then we'll present is bill. And hopefully during that time we'll get senator Hammer to get here to present representative under what's bill. I'm a step and use the restroom real quick. Committee members that everybody get that message that we're going to pass over Senator Ballinger is Senate bill you know the number I don't need to say it again I have. In. There's enough bad in my life the way it is. And we're going to go ahead and hear house bill sixteen forty two. And we'll wait just a minute. Sure five eighty seven back all units. Yeah I did it but I just know I just found that issue that caught on thank you though. What did you what's the. You are on camera. Now we're ready Senator Ballinger is going to pass over his bill because some people but centerman is going to present House Bill sixteen forty two for representative under one. Okay. Sixteen forty two that have gone. Okay Senator Irvin you are recognized. Do I want. Recess polluted. Thank you serving you are recognized to present house bill sixteen forty two okay members of this house bill sixteen forty two by a representative under would to promote successful families in public housing if you will allow and Jamie Barker to come to the table and he can explain the bill that would be fine. Please introduce yourself and you may proceed. Thank you Committee and I Mister chair I'm Jenny Barker representing the opportunity solutions project this is a relatively simple bill and I had a lot of statistics things prepared but I'll spare you that and the gist of this is we are applying something that we do in three other welfare programs which are cash assistance food stamps and Medicaid and applying that to public housing and the reason want to do this is to promote people complying with child support orders and Kansas passed a similar statute for welfare program recently they saw forty percent increase in compliance with child support orders and we wanna make sure the people that are complying with child support orders are and prioritized in the public housing I typically there are large wait lists and so by making sure that people who are comply with court orders and do what they're supposed to do and we're rewarding them for that behavior and making sure that they get priority with those waiting lists and getting into public housing. Senator Irvin have you presented the bill. Yes all right are there any questions for senator open. Senator Elliot you're recognized for a question I it I have a whole lot of sympathy for the for the prioritizing you know the folks that I mentioned here but how did you determine that they should get the priority as opposed to. I don't know a father with two kids who's been a good that. So this is not necessarily prioritize them over the father of two kids he's been a great dad this is power making sure that their protests over people who are not compliant so if somebody doesn't have a child or is not going to lose out to someone who does have a child support is being compliant just because they don't have one this is just making sure that the Housing Authority prioritizes those who are compliant over those who are not. So it it in fact is if if I if I'm if I'm not being compliant and say Hickey is and both of us make an application for housing All things being equal with the good dad the only one I am going to be able to by pass is going to be Hickey not going to be I think it can by pass me some the bed I'm the best person. you can and he said he said I know he said I segment but we're just okay so so in that case the only person he can by pass would be would be me. but otherwise you get to the regular order with everybody else looking for housing last that's a correct intent is to prioritize someone who is being compliant over someone who is not not to prioritize them over everyone else. ACT I do not want to stipulate that if you are not being compliant you cannot move up the wait list and get in the house until you move into compliance so it that's great and it only has to do with that child support that is correct yes ma'am okay all right thank you you're recognized I will make sure I understand this okay you got to mothers with two H. of two kids. Both of them of course have a a dad that's supposed to be paying child support. What I'm saying that one's not the dead who doesn't even live with them are we prioritizing how we prioritise and receipt of that money no Sir okay so to be clear in your scenario the only factor for those people with their the risk recipients to be in compliance is they basically can't slanted or child support enforcement space if child support enforcement kind shows up and says we're trying to help you receive your child support do you have that phone number areas and a signed on the basis that I make a point that that's essentially if you're the recipient the only possible way you could be not compliant and there are the at the department is are you doing this obviously other programs they have the the difference to the for the so saying your stereo one of those mother says they fear for their safety or they don't feel comfortable that's okay there exempted this would not apply to them that the real target of this bill are parents in your scenario would be the father who is not paying and is he's the applicant attempting to get into child it get public housing and at the the other mother has two kids and what is or is not receiving but is complying or doesn't have an order she should be prioritized over that person is not paying the child support any noncompliance so the recipient there is a once again the recipients that's that's of no no consequence of what's the weather so they're receiving and not it's just the. The pay or I am not aware of any recipient ever being labeled non compliance because this is something that they have pursued to get child support they want the child support this is something they went to court to get I'm not aware of any recipient being not compliant and I guess in theory that again that we're giving deference to child support enforcement to determine what is and is not complied because they're going to know that best in there doing that already in three other programs and so again this is targeted to those people who are not paying and not falling child support and if they're not paying it they actually can still be compliant so long as they go to court and get that adjustment so if if if the father in that case stops paying has lost his job and he all he has to do to become compliant is go to court to get an adjustment to that child support plan. I wish we would have been a little bit then I will be fine with this I wish we would have just went a little bit stipulated that out there that it wasn't the recipients but. Harrisson after seeing what you're trying to do and I love the premises of of that I just don't want to ever be misinterpreted sure caps on it and I think that's kind of what senator. L. it was. Okay do we have any other questions. Can I respond to what he just brought up sure so we actually had a question in the House we pulled the bill down and spoke to members of the committee that had the exact same reservations the reason we don't is because we're doing this and three other programs already and it's not defined so we're trying to maintain that same standard of how we apply cooperation and allow child support to determine who is and is not being cooperative and so I I understand you're saying I just don't know about where we were more concerned that if we did define cooperation that we would actually become more restrictive than allowing child support enforcement to understand who is attempting to be compliant who is not. Okay I have another question Senator Elliot. When it if if if if I'm the father and I'm not compliant and you said there is I could go to court if it would have to go to court to do this to get the what did you call an adjustment to the planet just the adjustment does that mean that I'd get a a piece of paper that says Gives me the adjustment language at that time. I do also have to. Hey some money that I might not have much but it doesn't involve any payment when I get that adjustment at the time that I get the adjustment. To my understanding to be clear I'm not a hundred insurances my understanding it does not and actually even if you have not gotten the adjustment yet this would be a good example of why we don't want to find if someone wasn't paying because they lost their job in the middle of the pandemic obviously there at the end be read by a technicality not compliant however they may have attempted to set a court date there you know because of a pandemic or whatever people are just into that court date may be set farther out in child support enforcement could be able to say well they are there to be to be compliant because they set the court date they just can't they're saying the campaign right now and they might they would you know they could have that latitude to just to say it's you know we're seeing after your to be compliant however they aren't making payments at the current order might be stating they should be making that's part of the reason we left it with the child support enforcement agency and how big a problem is this is it is the so I reference back the the Kansas recent statute they passed so Kansas adds passes for food stamps recently and Candice off forty percent increase in the populations receiving a child support and which which is very high which part of the statistics I was going to introduce with and so of the children with one parent anyhow thirty seven those are living in poverty and of those fewer than one in four single parents on food stamps receive any amount of child support whatsoever and so right now I'm not so your parents not cooperating could be placed ahead of someone who is cooperating and so we're just want to make sure that the people acting in good faith and following the court orders are given priority and able to get in the housing and get a hand up over someone who is not okay we have no more questions Senator Teague. So if What do you do we kids that need a place to live and that she's not paying for something what would you do about that the kids put him back in priority or not or set so what you just stated was that the data is not paying which means he is the noncustodial parent paying child support to the mother maybe the kids are living with him though well he happens all the time. He's the non custodial parent paying child support to the mother so that he would be the custodial parent in that case and so I I'm not yet okay so let's let users Nerio he the he's the he was he was not so apparent some reason the kids now living with him he would not need to be paying child support that point you just need to go to court get an adjustment to the planned because now he's the star and now he's that the parent that has the actual support the child you're aware that court costs money that a lot of people have. Yes Sir but yes Sir I am thank you. Okay Senator Hickey you're recognized for a question yes and don't think I don't know what a housing Housing Authority is but I don't see the definition of public Housing Authority within this bill is that defined elsewhere. I asked a similar question and was told that we didn't need to define it any more than that and if the if you disagree you will be much more expert on that that I will. That makes no sense to me. So. Yes. I think the intention is is any one using taxpayer funded housing will apply the standard and have to submit to the sewer authority so if an individual landlord out here's receiving the section eight payment. the that that's going to be something that that individual of taxpayers going to have to comply with with all of all of theirs. I don't think that's the intention however I get our that's what we need to define okay. Thank you. Okay Senator Irvin. Senator do you have a comment or question. Okay. Okay under Arkansas Code. And title fourteen chapter one sixty nine. There are definitions for authority or Housing Authority means any of the public corporations created by fourteen. That's one sixty nine dash two oh seven. so there. Those terms are defined in that Part of the statute so does that help answer the questions Senator Hickey if I knew what those were yeah. Well I'm just authority or Housing Authority means any of the public corporations created by fourteen sixty nine fourteen dash one six nine dash two as seven and so when I type that in. I will get it the answer for you. I just want to be able to answer that question. This is just under the creation of authority. And that's where that definition resides. Okay. The rest questions I see no do you have questions Senator I see no further questions would you like to close for your bill senator. Consists become your bill. Sure and so just just stating fact that on fourteen one sixty nine dash two oh seven where the definition of public Housing Authority is listed there is a long. Part of code that talks about In each city in each county of this state there is created a public body corporate impolitic to be known as the Housing Authority of the city or the county and then there are very and specified as. Language in here talking about exactly so and. I can just read that and Senator years I mean it talks about and describes what a public Housing Authority can and cannot do Inc including the degree of overcrowding the percentage of land coverage the light air space and access available to the inhabitants of the dwelling accommodations the size and arrangement of the brands the sanitary facilities etcetera etcetera so I just. The end just to try to answer that question so I'm just happy to try to run this for representive Underwood I think the intention as you clearly state at hers in the presentation was to try to bring this in compliance with what's happening in these other programs but that the intent is really to try to increase the amount of the level of child support going to individuals which I don't think it's a bad thing but a good thing so with that I would appreciate your consideration and good vote. As a member of this committee to you want to make the do pass I'll make a motion to pass I have a motion do pass do I have a second. I have a second from senator Hammer is there any discussion. Senator Elliot you're recognized for discussion only yes I really like the idea we have patterns of that we can follow But I'm I am having difficulty with this one I'll just say because I just keep thinking through unintended consequences and that's what I really I don't know that I'm against the I just wanted to think about this some more that's what I want to say I'm not I'm not prepared to vote for now because I just think I needed to get through more so that's that okay. Senator Hickey said we're in a discussion discussion yeah and I'm the same way the premise of this I Y. I just don't like it we had to find. For sure what public housing is in there because I would never want to quite back to. Individuals out there that may be getting you know fifty dollars from some section eight program or something like that and then they have to try to try to comply with comply with all this and then I would also and I heard what you said earlier about you had other stuff you know it at different places but you know just because those are wrong as far as the defining the recipients you know I would like I'd like for us to see that the that definitions of little bit clearer so that those mothers if they were to have if the recipients of that word of Be receiving those funds and nobody ever construes that mean that they're not in compliance first because they're not receiving the funds correctly or something of that nature I just like I said just think we could've been a little more detail of what you're trying to do is just to that part. It just needs clarity. I mean you Senator Elliot you're recognized I know we're going to do is unknown I'm sorry yeah and we're going to do something with it as well I think it will be it would be good to Know what the other examples are that we are doing something like this because that way I can see if it's a fair comparison and think about the consequences of this bill versus the things were already doing. Share Senator Rapert you're recognized I'm going to withdraw my motion. To be and trying to be fair but I am gonna was on a motion because I actually do think that we need some clarity and definition and I I do think that this is a good bill and I think the intent of is a very good bill but I do think it needs to be done right so I will make that commitments to get with the members of this committee and to bring about some language and try to get this done quickly And I'm we'll need to I presume you'll need an amendment to find an answer to the housing question but there's still time to get an amendment on it yes the Senate get a better idea I don't disagree with that and I think that I think then people on this committee will have a better comfort level of voting on their bill because I think we all agree it's a worthy one favor before you pull it down are there any other questions the committee needs so that the next time we hear this we got everything answered. I don't message here but if something comes up I will make a point to make sure to so what should I ask you to give that to Senator Irvin to to yes the center and are you going to take the bill is part of the amendment probably ought to be you as assigned the sponsor on the bill as well Senator Elliot I you just give it to me and then I'll also give you Mr Barker's contact information and how can assistance with making sure that we get language correct but if you do have that please email me or something and then we can just all right I will I just don't want me to cation and let's work to make this a better bill together because I think that's really going to be important all right thank you I really want to see this is chair too so Senator Hickey thanks and and my thing about the recipient and that and I even heard you mention it was on page two lines five and six yeah but I see three four five and six senses operator housing Housing Authority wide child support cooperation requirement and and this is where that I was struggling with this Senate require compliance by a custodial parent or non custodial parent you know that that parts were it where I was afraid that somebody you know could may be interpreted to be the other way so that that does that line right there was what I was struggling with. You have a recommendation you know beef willing to give them to clear that up. He's going to work with me get the road got what we'll get this all right so Senator going to be clear you're pulling that bill down by and wish that to be Thursday Committee Allender we will work that fast okay we'll put that on the Thursday okay I love that and thank you for your testimony Barker committee members. And not being here Thursday we currently are up to how many eleven twelve now twelve bills for Thursday I'm going to highly recommend that there's five bills would be presented from two. Two presenters and I think that might be a very productive Thursday a plus Missy so so you'll have six of those twelve we do not see a large amount of bills coming off the house floor that will have for next Tuesday but whatever we get will put it back on Tuesday with the idea that Tuesday we go through the bills as long as it takes Thursday as well but trying to limit the Thursday bills so with with your. Non objection to that I'm going to set the schedule for six bills on Thursday two presenters of of a to bill and a three bill president Asian and then senator van will bring this bill back for consideration everything else will go to the following Tuesday to mix with whatever comes off the house floor. did we move him you we did but I think we're going to move him probably to Tuesday because just using some the two representatives one has to bills on one as three get them here to present their bills since we're having trouble getting people to come we'll just set that as the schedule. Now what I would do is you decide will it now but I don't know Ballinger okay we'll wait to hear Ballinger but expect you're scheduled to have five. Bills with two members and Missy's and have a good committee meeting I will not be