House Rules

Committee this this bill We have an issue with between tobacco wholesalers and retailers and let us be quite honest the retailers are paying their bills and the wholesaler ends up get it you know holes in the back so what's happening is retailers some of small mom and pop retailers or Getting tobacco products from the wholesaler they're they're not paying their bills or it's almost like a check kiting scheme where there wait until they can sell enough product from another wholesaler in order to pay their bills and it's creating a a burden on the the wholesalers in this bill will I believe fix that problem with the support of a tobacco control and so with that being said I'm going to let my subject matter experts speak to the to the bill and which introduce yourself when the service introduce yourself for the record you can. Good afternoon my name is John how game I'm owner of time fits tobacco in pine bluff I don't know about it expert the tone I'll try to do what I can for also represent the Arkansas convenience store distributor association and that's of a group of about nine wholesalers in the State of and we're all in favor of this of this bill of just like an representative berry said we have problems with hot checks of the and with prices tobacco and cigarette see days checks can get extremely high of you know at times of so we we have just like you said we have problems where a retailer would cry just a hot check of by the time we get it back from the thank you it may be fourteen days later in that time we could have taken some more checks across possibly be insufficient. So then by the time we get the information to the retailer that we're gonna cut him off because of this you know enormous height check of the turning go to another whole cellar and start purchasing products and they just leave us hanging until they can get the money to finally pay us all. And then then they'll come back to us and it's just a game they play so thanks if we can get to tobacco control board to help us so we're if we can get the retailer to pay the insufficient funds or anything if they could come in and and say okay we're going to put out a mass email which they they send us mass emails quite frequently so it wouldn't be a be that big of a deal form. Thank you senator email to all the other wholesalers let him know that there is a insufficient funds out there and not to sail to these people and then it would kind of put pressure on them to you know take care of their their obligation to get us paid. Another problem we have is of. We may go into a store. I've I've seen it right here in pine bluff you mean I can go into a store on Sunday and one individuals in their working on in the store next date my sales person goes into the store there's someone else in there I mean a change hands over not of the other person may take off and and go back to Pakistan or he meant or wherever they're from. And then they want to leave us holding the bag for maybe a week or two of the unpaid bills and. So we feel like you know they should do their due diligence and of. If a person takes over and an account or or business and it's behind on taxes they become responsible for those taxes and everything so we think of you know we ought to get the same treatment since we collect so much of taxes for the state of Arkansas in our cigarette and tobacco tax. In committee also is there this doesn't happen overnight there's plenty of opportunities for the for the retailer to make good on their own paying for the merchandise before at some point in our call or the tobacco control board with under a of this law would to suspend their their permit and this is holding them accountable for the products that they're purchasing from wholesalers and that being said it would take be happy taking a question I'd like to also and we feel that if this. Goes through and tobacco control. Right to rules and everything we're going to get out real quick once or twice this happens and it's going to stop. All right. I remember you heard the testimony representative berry Mr Hager of any questions. All right seeing no questions of we have a couple people signed up to speak for against the bill Mr Hey I guess you're already on here to speak for the bills that you signed up. John Hey okay yeah all right we'll move to the speak against the bill we have a a story Chandler. You would want to. Just recognize yourself for the record please and you can begin your testimony. Doorly channeler Director of the Arkansas tobacco control administration and I'm here to is to set up three points of why we're taking a position against this bill on the first one is we set the regulations and oversee the regulations that were by the legislature however we don't generally get involved in private industry matters and this is a private industry matter if there's a failure to pay a bill or pay an invoice and there's a circuit court remedy through the legal process allowed to them if it's the insufficient funds because this bill addresses both of those matters if it's an insufficient funds and they have the rights to the prosecuting attorney to seek reparation for those those funds and they can go through the criminal matter we also have a due process concerns as we sat and looked at the bill asks for us at a point to suspend that license if they have not. Paid the bill or clarified the and paid the insufficient funds check in in that matter there's no hearing and so there's a due process concern for the permit holder that we're gonna be taking these permits and suspending these permits prohibiting them to function and operate on the word of a wholesaler and while we trust our wholesalers we are taking the word of one and taking the license from an individual to operate and make funds without any Avenue within the stat this bill to provide them with a due process mechanism to be heard immediately. And so we're asking that you know this also it's going to require an increase in employment for the tobacco control based upon the volumes that we are hearing that the whole soldier dealing with these insufficient funds and failure to pay on a daily basis and you multiply that by the eighty plus wholesalers I mean we were I have to increase our staff to have at least one administrative employee to cover and handle the continuing notifications because we must provide part per the bill media notification of these insufficient funds or failure to pay to all the whole sellers followed by if they do not pay within thirty days of the suspension of that that permit and so we will also have to have enforcement to enforcement agents and these are contained in the fiscal impact statement that DFA provided those those fees and incurring costs. All right thank you mission we do have some questions for your representative Wardlaw. You're recognized thank you Mr in this impact statement it says that you're gonna need a hundred thousand dollars. Per year for these two agents what's the what's the average salary of. So I as I say here I don't oversee the agents we do have the enforcement I want to know the average salary your agents today so I don't have the enforcement agents we do have the director of is over enforcement here and it rains I can answer that here's saying that you're going to have more people Mr Milstar if you're here tell me you need more people you told me to refer to your seat I referred your seat you gave a number on a seat I want to know what the average pay for your agents is so that I can match it to your seat my understanding is I will have one administrative employ that would be under made that we placed at a salary of approximately around thirty thousand plus benefits reaching up to approximately sixty thousand the enforcement director provided to figure my understanding is to DFI in the amount of around the salary of fifty some thousand plus the vehicle and equipment that they would be provided he could provide additional information as to what specific Quitman he equipped his agents with following procedure so your ministry of assistant or your ministry of position that you're asking for support person to be word for word your term you will pay around thirty thousand dollars a year and your match funds are thirty thousand dollars a year I've been employer long time and I've never doubled my salary for Max so. So included in that when we came up with that figure D. F. and I and I came up with that figure we included in that salary. Health insurance retirement benefits as an overall package there are approximately sixty thousand dollars and that's an approximation. Thank you Mr good hi. Anyone have any other questions representative Ferguson. You're recognized a lot thank you thank you Mr chairman at I like the philosophy behind this bill I guess is there an easier way to do it to say if they're convicted of writing a hot check then they lose their permit I mean just like what they have to have a criminal background check and other things is there something we could write a policy they just automatically they lease or permit if they've been convicted of certain things. Thank representative for example your for your question and I think we can address the due process law are to due process portion down on it with an amendment on the Senate in but it's not just only hot checks it's a it's a kiting scheme of product so it there's more than just the hot check piece which you know that you know the prosecutors can handle hot checks but the the kiting of merchandise if you will need to be you know taken consideration in and under control by of tobacco control which is actually the of may who tobacco control works for. You did this impact statement so I appreciate the representative Wardlaw is comments on the additional positions because I think you know with the notification everything of the retailers of you know in in the wholesalers that there what's what's going on it's gonna only happen once or twice and they're gonna start policing themselves but the problem is a lot of these people are selling their businesses to somebody from out of country then they move back to another country in the wholesalers and the left holding the bag so this there's provisions in here that would require the the individual that's assuming then it the business to be responsible for those deaths to the whole server to make sure they end up getting pay so I think I really don't see it is a is a big personnel matter where you're gonna end up having to spend a hundred sixty thousand dollars per year to send out a few emails and to do a little policing which tobacco control really honestly should be doing. Your representative. Our representative Kenneth Ferguson you're recognized. What you're putting in a go. One more time. All right Mr thank you Mr a representative Barry you mentioned that you'd be willing to amended on the city and to take care of the. Process language of it all right thank you. I have a question Mister who so does the tobacco control do they issue the permits to the wholesalers and retailers. Yes Sir all right so if you're the agency or group that issues those permitted it seems that you ought to have the same ability to take that permit back if they're a bad actor would that be the case yes all right and so. This is saying that you would suspend that that permit if what representative berry says is happening I mean. I guess I'm just asking is that I don't see why that's a problem if you already have the ability to revoke a permit. I understand that so as it stands now on the process for ATC is they do not unlike ABC they do not have director level hearing so when there is a violation that is submitted on an ATC matter it goes to an offer and settlement similar to an ABC matter the difference is that ATC if they reject that offer it goes directly to a board hearing. And so the difference is there is no middle and media at director level due process provided for someone if we're going to be suspending permits for failure to pay invoices that are between a retailer and wholesaler so the due process portion that representative berries talking about amending on the Senate in that would solve your issue it would resolve the due process concerns yes thank you members of the other questions. You bet representative first you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman at if it's that easy to transmit a permit to sell a business then what is the process for getting a permit I mean I know an alcohol permit is much more difficult to we need to tighten up the requirements to buy business and get a permit I mean what are those requirements. So on the permitting side I mean they do have to submit an application and go through a background check and provide financial support and so there there is a permitting process that is that they do go through to be vetted at the difference between the two permitting entities is that the alcoholic beverage permits have to be posted and that's what takes the additional amount of time we're as the tobacco we don't require the thirty day posting and so that's the distinctions but they do go through a permitting and a background check for alcohol for back up. Yeah yeah I guess I'm just wondering if maybe maybe there's solutions like that that would also help if we had a thirty day posting for transfer of tobacco permits I would that be. An administrative burden at. I mean requiring them to post and and white in a time period would not be an administrative burden. Our members any other questions. Acting in thank you Mr president that. We have no one else signed up to speak for or against the bill represented very would you like to close for your bill I'll close my bill thank you Mr all right members you for the presentation of the bill or the wishes of the committee. The motion to pass all those in favor signify by saying aye. Posed guys have a congratulations are you pastor bill thank committee thank you sure thank you. Our members will move to Senate bill five ninety seven. Thank you Mr president and a this is Senator English is bill we have a few challenges last week with the representative Dotson trying to attempting to get to is not a very difficult bill to be quite honest in this is a short bill just quite simply says that the the instead of the governor the secretary of defense a will employ the director of alcohol or tobacco control and so with that being said there's not much else to the bill unless the committee has some questions but I just wanted to as a as my colleague and friend I thought I'd to see if the committee would give him another chance and and try to get his bill through the committee thank you represent very any idea what happened last week what because the bill of sale or Sir thank you just had to do with experience in. Wardlaw you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman I'm on a little lead way. All yours. General. Okay general yes please thank you. How big a bus do you drive. Forty foot forty foot pretty good size tires on there too right yes Sir. I hear the hit real hard. They do. Thank you. Thank you representative members are the other questions. I members no other questions do not believe we have anyone no hang on Senate bill five ninety seven we do have someone signed up to speak against me for the bill. Mr gang would you wanna come up. Your. Good afternoon pop you just going to introduce yourself for the record again. Mr chairman members of the committee when this bill was presented we did state that this was a part of DFA's agency legislation that was approved by the governor's office. Happy to answer any additional questions of the committee might have members any questions for Mr Gehring. President Wardlaw no surprise Europe. So looking at these two fiscal impact statements from previous build in this one we not there's not a new position here you're just appointing this position by a different person correct absolutely correct yes Sir thank you thank you representative members any other questions for me here seeing none thank you appreciate coming down thank you. Hi members are no other no other folks signed up to speak for against the bill representative very would you like to close for your bill thank you Mr chairman thank committee and is just one it's one of those things that I I think you know my colleague and friend of represent Dotson he he he tried to do the best he could on it and just failed miserably so I would I would ask for a motion do pass and some work from the from the Committee from a guy that's only been doing this for a couple months. Thank you Mr. All right members you've heard the the close of the bill and there is a motion made do pass all those in favor signify by saying aye All opposed congradulations bills passed. All right members. Moving on the house bill nineteen oh nine representative great you are recognized to present your bill. Thank you Mr chair that's a hard act to follow their. All right this bill. Is to amend the limitation on access to a cultivation facility and we have an amendment coming around so you have a minute coming around from staff you take just seconds take a look at that. Members we have a motion to adopt the amendment. all of everything by saying aye aye the motion to adopt. This past the amendment is adopted represent gray recognized present your bill thank you Mr chair. So what this bill does is it gives it allows visitors inside the cultivation facilities got some pretty strict criteria here they have to present government issued ID where's visitor designation tag at all times escorted by authorized personnel at all times is not a minor and and then the cultivation facility must keep a log book with the names addresses and a purpose for the visit and then have video surveillance of the restricted areas taking at all times and then we also added with this amendment that not just anyone off the street can walk into a cultivation facility in and ask for Tourette's to look around it has to they have to be invited by the cultivation facility it themselves or by management personnel. That's essentially the crux of the bill. Our members on any questions. Single questions we do have some people signed up to speak for against the bill We'll start with for the bill Mr Robert to be in. All have ACT. All right members that's the only one signed up to speak for against the bill presented grade you like clothes for your bill I'm closed for my bill. All right members you've heard an explanation of the bill where the wishes of the committee. The motion to motion do pass as amended all those in favor signify by saying aye. Closed the eyes have it congratulations thank you. Our members are moving on to house bill ten sixty six representative Pilkington. Welcome back. Senate bill can understand you do have amendments but first we need to recognize a representative slate for a motion. And on the second try that. Motion yes Sir what's your motion exposed vocals which Amendment was adopted I members you you heard the motion to expunge the vote by which the man was adopted previously all those in favor signify by saying aye. Posed all right that one is expunged and representative Pilkington you can now present your amendment your current and thank thank you chairman eaves that thank you representative side for the motion I presented house bill ten sixty six last week there are some concerns by this committee yeah I pulled it down and went to work on those concerns and and address them and this amendment I feel like does that so once again we're we're changing my covered a small brewery that the better definition to define what we're trying to do but we also included was we deleted ship beer and substitute ship only beer brewed in Arkansas at the small brewery at the small brewery facility this was over concerning a representative brought up to me about the idea that maybe someone would buy beer from a distributor or out of state have at their location and then sell that the direction being so we just wanna make sure that this is only beer we are brewing here in Arkansas that table so very similar to the way we would do with small wineries attendance building hang on just a second members you've heard an explanation of the amendment without objection because of that amendment adopted I resent Pilkington you can going present your bill okay thank you representative each archer means once again I just want to go over some of the changes we made to this the three things that you should take into consideration as we major is only for white counties so only currently we're able to buy alcohol you're able to To get this directly shipped to you once again we had some clarifying language to make sure that they realize that they are old only these small breweries there wishing to ship directly have to pay the fee I think there's a confusion that all small present at the that is not the case it's only those wanting to receive this permits and then once again we have the part about monastic life which really narrow this down to just one small brewer in the State of Arkansas which is the one that we're trying to help And that that is in essence what this bill does and what the amendment does do it all right thank you representative we have a question to your representative Dalby you're recognized thank you Mr chair a representative Pilkington on page two line twenty one where you changed or The Amendment says that all proceeds are going to go towards supporting monastic life how many of these breweries small breweries do we have in Arkansas. I believe one we do have more than one once again this is only for the proceeds of the sale of your that is directly shipped to a customer so if you're a small brewery and and let's let's say Clarksville you probably would not want to be a direct shipper because why would you go and apple this additional cost an advertisement to basically shipped here to not be able to use any of the proceeds for your own benefit I'll follow up with. But what if I want to be a direct shipper then I can't avail myself to this bill correctly unless I'm willing to give all my proceeds to one group in Arkansas correct well it's is monastic life and it's not just Arkansas also if you were a brewery and thank Texarkana and there is a monastery in Texas you could do this and then give the proceeds to a monastery in taxes if you felt so inclined to yeah we did this because we we wanted the scope to be very small I I did want to open up direct shipment to also offers I I just want to help out a group of individuals who operate a small brewery that they they don't do a for profit they do to support their mission and that's that's why I had its Naylor are so narrowly tailored follow up when we actually take time. I'm still having trouble it would still be correct me if I'm wrong the the monks that you're trying to help the echo could still serve the beer and that's okay for them to get their own proceeds but I don't understand and that me as of beer one who makes it and I don't want to keep my proceeds to monastic life I want to be a capitalist and have the proceeds come back into my business so why should I would not be able to avail myself to this law that's my question why can I not be able to direct where I want my proceeds to go. Well under the law currently you're not able to do this at all so if we do nothing and don't pass this law nothing changes for for that small brewery that you speak up they're still not able to directly shipped here they're not able to do anything this is a we're opening up this a very small amount just like I said how about a small group that is in essence a nonprofit group so I. I know we're I understand the the reason behind we want everyone to be able to do it obviously there alcohol laws though we were not pure capitalist when it comes to our call laws and that's just the way we decided to be as a statement that's okay and and and that's why I'm kind of trying to work within that framework and within the industry to find something that's not extremely destructive. Your representative represent great you have a question. You're recognized thank you Mr chairman officer so much a question I'm asked to be in the queue kind of when she was halfway through but I trust me I think at first I thought maybe you're going to miss in our point in that now you've never you've defined this essentially so that only one entity can do it but I think the point of what we're all trying to say here is. Why not everyone because I mean at some point we're gonna have to if if we decide open this back up we're going to have to come back and strike out the supporting monastic life or just if you're going to run it if you can get the votes for this you will have the same vote to open it up for everyone in my opinion. Would you would you not agree. Make it a question. Thanks that I agree with the premise that they represented all be brought up I mean. And I'm willing to admit this is not a. Pure blooded capitalistic bill but we don't operate a. At a system like that here in Arkansas I try to work with industry in the state listen to their concerns and so that's why it was so narrowly tailored and the reason why I this bill came to me and to begin with was because of a personal relationship I have with these months knowing them knowing what their mission is knowing what they do scene that how they use is very to take care of retired months You know these are these are people who decided to serve god and Louis take vows of poverty I think if we can make a little exception for them I think it's something good that we can do as a body to to help out our fellow man have decided to give their lives up for a higher purpose follow up Mr so it just E. it is the error when you in your discussions in the beginning was there any opposition to the opening a wide up like what okay if not more than just moral grounds I mean were there other industry or business that opposed yes it was not just on moral grounds you know in the in my original draft it doesn't mention masonic life and and it was a big I mean I filed this bill my phone started lighting up and so that's why we we try to work to tailor down because I'd like I said I don't want to be super destructive either thank you thank you Jennifer representative Bob you're recognized thank you Mr chair and so I'm. Gonna go back to the representative's always so how many breweries do we have more than one obviously yes. And they can do this by this bill right this bill will allow them to direction correct so we're allowing them to directorship but them not to keep their proceeds hi my understanding this correctly so them the countrymen purring will be able to keep not talking about them I'm talking about other industries not the month yeah the other people yes so let's call the Vaught brewery This Is there gonna direction if they. Go through this process get the application are permitted to do it and start shipping beer the proceeds from that would have to go to support monastic life yes that is correct. So we're basically making number nine is that what you're telling me I'm sorry Mr on this we're asking what are we not just monopolizing this because everybody's proceeds have to go to one spot well it's it's only proceeds from the direction and allow that okay so what I'm saying is currently your brewery cannot do this to begin with we're letting everyone exception for an abbey in Arkansas. So yes if you're brewery wanted to do it they would somehow have to find a way to use those proceeds to go out and support monastic life estate they honestly probably wouldn't go into it because that's a lot of investment and risk for something that I mean maybe they just had a lot of religious fervor But yes they probably when use this so but like I said it doesn't change anything for them because they're not already currently allowed to do to begin with. Thank you representative members in the question. Seeing no questions we have a few people signed up to speak for or against the bill first on the list is Tony road. County road. All right no show. That's on this is Mister Eric Pendergrass. You think that. Introduce yourself for the record you again Mister chairman American address from Fort Smith Arkansas I am also the chairman of the hosts over distributors for Arkansas I am here today to speak in opposition to this bill because there are a handful of problems in particular three just general reasons why we oppose this bill first of all it is structural and Constitutional the approach that this bill is taken potentially has a negative impact on interstate commerce would be violated violative of the Interstate Commerce Clause in addition there is this there there is a question of the equal protection as it relates to the religious order and creating this are making this carve out of for the monastic the support of monastic life next as we look at this from a public policy perspective it does not do a very good job of preserving the three tier system that we of all decided to a support is a state where we have a licensed brewers a licensed wholesalers and a licensed retailers this would skip two of those three systems that provide a good deal of public protection. And and approach to the market finally from a business perspective this this doesn't really solve a solve a problem for consumers from the sense of having access to markets with the idea that these these brewers and small brewers do you have do have access to wholesalers do you have access to get themselves into retail outlets through normal and already pre established distribution channels and for those for those reasons we ask that the committee that oppose house bill ten sixty six. Our thank you member any questions. Can you explain the more what you mean about Interstate Commerce the situation there. With the idea of interstate commerce we've had some rulings from the United States Supreme Court I believe it was that Graham home was the up party on there that that. decision and there were. A law I believe we were again that was struck down because it did not allow out of state shippers to comment where this would only apply we've created exception for in state people we have would have to possibly create an exception for out of state small brewery representative. To come into the store and then you're coming about access to wholesalers that these small breweries already have access are you saying that there would be a wholesaler willing to pick up the beer that these monks make absolutely I see that's been an ongoing issue that I've found this year's especially in that some of these small breweries and wineries specifically breweries are unable to get the product into wholesaler's. Because either too far away the whole sort of what does want to drive to pick it up I suppose they can also delivered but we. So I guess I'm asking how we solve that problem okay okay I I'd be glad to address that I sent to a delivery truck within a mile of the C. B. echo Avenue every day of or at least four days a week and then and and down there because I also service of Logan County on behalf of there's a there's a distillery in Jackson County that's having a lot of difficulty we pass the bill this session the addresses that I mean how how are they supposed to get a hold there to pick up their product we'll so you can distinguish beer the beer system from the liquor system because liquor can only be assigned to one of wholesaler where you can make multiple assignments to. They're very upset with you can appoint that on a county bycounty basis and so that you can of this scale becomes a lot smaller that is. I think that the common about it if interfering with a three tier system you know it probably is true but I think that's more a result of. That the three tier system I think has some issues that need to be looked at in order to be you know fair to everyone. Would you agree with that at. That there are not the three tier system is not without issue but But it is the system that we have that is a it has served us well for getting close to a hundred years now that's fair thank you members any questions resented person you're recognized. I guess I'm sitting here thinking maybe the solution to all this would be if a wholesaler will not pick up of beer. Brewery that they're allowed to ship them sales with that be an option for I mean I understand the the situation if thank you if if I can't get a wholesaler to distributed then may we should allow them to distribute with that would you object to that. I. I don't know that that is an issue before us but I believe that we could At I believe that we can find somebody to most often pick up beer from somebody and of it would potentially be a solution yes. Good thank you representative very you're recognized thank you Mr chairman and I think representative Pilkington I understand your intent and what you're trying to do but one parked at the concerns me also is the secular peas and exclusion everybody else being. And maybe rate kind of touch. You're just making. Available to the secular Community being the the the the monastery there at C. B. acco so I just don't think excluding everybody else. Process is. For him or well it's. Or is it for me by either one of you but but if you're excluding everybody other than the monastery it It CB Act academy then it's not fair to the other microbreweries of small brewery. I would agree with that point what I would say that was currently no one is able to do this with the system we have what we're doing is trying to create a carve out for a very small group that has I would say. You know. Different priorities per the don't disrupt the industry that is not a problematic for me he mentioned three tier system yeah I work we're trying to instead of taking a hatchet we're taking a scalpel to to just fix the problem and and help a small group that has having an inability to be able to get there their product to customers to help them support their happy. Mr I mean I I was too I don't think there's a single small brewery out there that is currently supporting a nonprofit or a religious order out there and that's that's I think why it's a little different because what we're doing is we're trying to help out of group that's has a mission that isn't just merely for profits. And and those are Miller for profits which to me is a cap because I love to see but I'm just going to go after one group not not the whole group so. Mr Negara's and I understand your intent what you can do is try to help the monastery there's to be echo and I get it but in the broader scheme of things there may be other brewery six that come up next week and then they're gonna be excluded saw I just don't agree with the picking out the the the monks at the at C. B. acco based on you know what this law said and and really I know you your phone's going to ring off the wall if you open it up to everybody else but it is what it is it's it's in fairness to everybody. ACT I can understand that you know We've made exemptions for small small farm wine you know I can order from napa valley to my house or anything like that we made exemptions for groups in Arkansas which where where those in the river valley that are are great great vineyards and so I think we Senate president of doing things like this and I think you would agree representative Barry that helping out those small farm small a small small farm wines was a good thing And so one final question so it and I have to disagree with you there because we're talking numerous wineries in the river valley but this you're just talking about the monastery at it's to be actual cat I mean that's it everybody else's exclude. Thank you Mr yes Sir president Dalby you're recognized thank you Mr just. A lot of one off representative Pilkington when you said something of that you know they're promoting you know certain lifestyle in and that's great what if I develop those of us microbrewery but I had a charitable purpose but it wasn't monastic life but is still a great purpose under this law I couldn't ship. Is it was a monastic but maybe it was to protect our it was helping those with mental and physical disabilities a charity so therefore I'm out correct under this law I would be out because it would be a lot of monastic life that I would have to get by proceeds to. It that is true you could always go and find a potential order that supported those charities there's orders all across the country not just Catholic there's Buddhist orders there's all sorts that you could potentially donate to to. To to support those missions if you wanted to the reason why we didn't do nonprofit status instead of an asset because that did cross my mind will just make a nonprofit. Technically they're not considered a nonprofit so if we added that there would be no breweries that could do this on this bill wouldn't do anything so so that's why we we chose that language of monastic life as opposed to non profit so I I've had kind of similar thinking that be a great way to do it because I would like it to be to be bigger but I also understand limitations I understand where we are in Arkansas with the three tier system and so I'm like I said I'm just trying to the scalpel to help a few people out then didn't take a hatchet to the three tier system thank you representative means any other questions for Mr Pendergrass are saying thank you Mr Pendergrass we have one more signed up to speak against the bill Mr Robbie Vogel. We've got about nine minutes for it to be in session so if you could kind of make it concise. Good morning my name is Robbie vocal on the CEO of our families beverage companies we have a wholesaler in Texarkana Arkansas and Texarkana Texas employing thirty five people we have a wholesaler in Little Rock that services Pulaski and saline county with a hundred thirty people both those are beer wholesalers we have a another third division for wine and spirits that operates over the entire state that has ten people and just started here about four years ago I think to address one of the first questions according to the ABC website you can do a quick filter search in this is quick but there are forty three active wholesale sorry small breweries I think there's something to consider in this language the original bill had microbrewery microbrewery is not the same as a small brewery believe it or not there's a lot of different languages that go on in our business the three tier system to us as sacrosanct there's nothing more important to us I think if you read some of the regulations that are out there the definition under section two point five point two Arkansas native brewer says that a small brewery may sell and transport beer malt another hard cider products produced on the premises of the small brewery to retail license holders and small brewery license holders if the total production of the permitted brewery does not exceed fifteen thousand barrels which if you know what a barrel as it's fourteen cases so fourteen times fifteen thousand all this. Retail. All this permittee has to do is get what is called a small brewery wholesale permit and then the said monastery can deliver their products should they wish to to a retailer of their choice I think chair too your Jackson comment about the distillery we've been in discussions with many whole statement many distilleries and breweries to trying to get them to come into our network they are not easy things to overcome most importantly everyone that we're working with right now the to brewer they don't sell package beer they only sell draft beer. If you only sell draft beer and go the on premise which is going through a pandemic it's coming out of it obviously we didn't have many options of new placements for draft beer we ask for package beer they said that's a huge capital investment they weren't ready to make it so I ask in an effort to be concise that there are work arounds for the small brewers and I ask that you all vote in opposition to this bill thank you Sir appreciate that members any questions sing none we create your testimony representative Pilkington would you like to close for your bill. Yes I would thank you chairman thank you committee members. A lot of great questions I think they were very poignant I just wanna say aye I know there's some opposition out there it's in the industry it's ironic you have an all archy complaining about a potential monarchy which I don't see it that way I see is a very small group of individuals wanting to be able to deliver their products and find themselves stuck in archaic system used to. Used to make sure that bootleggers warrant circumventing taxes. As a tool to prevent them from being able to spread their beer to of members who want to support them as a nappy look. They take vows of poverty thank you go higher lobbyist they can't get a special interest group to come and help them to talk about this and work the things where they do have. Is a poor excuse for a legislator who just wants to help amounts and and so with that I just ask for a good vote and I want to. See this pass so thank you all right thank you representative members you heard the testimony the bill or the wishes of the committee. We have a motion do pass as amended with discussion representative great you're recognized thank you Mr chairman make this quick I'm making this motion I have no idea I guess would be that the committee is not going to be supportive of this and so just in my discussion my recommendation is if this is not passes that you go back to your original bill if that was a more open bill and see what happens there I think the the the narrowness of your bill is what's getting us I've not been reached out to you so I've not had anyone say vote for against this aged literally just in the riding of the bill and and the way it's drafted so narrowly but I will be I will give you a motion do pass as amended thank you president right members any other discussion we have a motion do pass as amended all those in favor say aye. All those opposed no. The notes have it sorry bills