Transportation, Technology & Legislative Affairs - Senate

Will she speak separately Thank. Back. We'll see how it goes the just introduce yourself for the record and you're welcome see thank you Sir my name is Brian Melanau ski of the executive director of the Little Rock municipal airport thank you for having us here today and giving us a chance to share some comments with you we appreciate out of my left the Shane Carter and he's also with the airport as well you may have heard from him earlier so I'm just going to take very few little bit of your time I just want to hit three points of. First we never ever said take it or leave it that's just not right I'm sure you saw just want clear clarify that as far as this agreement goes there's three things I want to hit one this for me is about safety. When a passenger comes into the airport we don't know what's going on in and I'd like to know who is operating on my airport I'd like to know who's there and have an agreement with them and those types of things in a passenger comes in and is going to be renting or utilizing a conducting a commercial operation that needs to occur on the airport and we need to identify an area keep it safe well lit well marked in the calendar for your call and so forth. My understanding is some of this is. Taking place off the report to avoid us and so people get into a vehicle that may or may not they may not know who it is ultimately this transaction maybe taking place somewhere else and if somebody needs assistance I think that's just pending about situation and not safe safe safe environment so that's what we want second we talk about spaces we do need to identify a couple two three four how many spaces it takes for this to to occur Taurus's we don't need those spaces and and and the reason I bring this up is because they want to conduct this operation on my curbside I can't permit that I have safety and security issues you can't leave unattended vehicles we've got TSA issues we simply cannot permit that to we can't leave the unattended vehicle on a curve but we can't we can't promote those type of activities further it will contribute to congestion in last as I mentioned earlier if we have a safe well lit and identified location people will know where to go to pick up their vehicle will mark off the space is it like I said it doesn't matter to me forgiving for spaces are to as long as there's a space and we can tell people to go there and this is where you conduct that operation we think that's best in the safest interest to the passengers and people operating at the airport so with that those who might might might summary comments we appreciate your time and thank you for for your time at what speed thank you. Overfly the deferred any questions you may have certain interest of your time's going and introduce yourself so you have so sure my name is Shane Carter I'm director of public affairs and government relations for the little rock municipal airport Commission. Questions from the members. Senator Pitsch. Who did you have questions Senator I did not I want to thank The individual's Norwalk airport because they reached out to me and talk with me. Because I've never heard of that you know I'm one drives my own car and I know I'm not a noble person I'm not a live person but I am concerned about the safety of the people who do business at the airport and I just appreciate you all for explaining the concerns because all I heard was it's about the money. And you know people can make I'm all for the making of the but. Concerned about the safety of the folks who fly into our which every day you really don't know with whom they're doing business all they know is what they've seen on the internet so I appreciate you taking the time to visit with me about the issue thank you thank you Mr. Senator Pitsch. Thank you Mr chairman and I don't know whether this is Mr Carter Mr Malinovsky but sometimes in politics you play in two different swimming pools we've heard a different version but the same two players in my committee for the last probably month in insurance and commerce. And. It evidently it couldn't get worked out. With all of those aspects I understand repaired the bill to what's in front of us now. My question is. This last four days I've spent in Charleston South Carolina at the in Khalil. Conference and a rental car business came to the table and talked about peer to peer. And they did not do anything with that there the Senate was as it was over. This is clearly something that's going across the country and there's not a love affair this thing among legislators it appears like we spent the entire session going after company you has an innovative way of. Taking a Airbnb to cars and I think we need to help this committee understand. You know at some level this is a business trying to do something and every time we've had presentations it's always been there the evil one I mean. I I don't tend to believe that most businesses are started based on evil so I need to really understand the concerns of airports have within Airbnb for cars and I want to make sure you're not just tied to the rental car business where I know you're very tied in the airport and the rental car business I see their desk I see their their entities. But I want to make sure we're not just doing this to try and eliminate competition for the rental car businesses so that may be an unfair leading questions but help us understand this the sponsor thinks he's got what he needs to do here today. But this is a great concern and I encountered on a national level so help me Mr from a. Senator is a fish Page thank you. I assure you this is not a attempt to limit competition at all I like to talk by way of examples and several years ago we were introduced to a similar operation with over and lift and ten years ago I really don't know whatever list were and they were doing a lot of business on the airport but as we came to understand and learn their business model we have the same requirements to enter into an agreement with them to make sure that they have the insurance in place for the people that operates in that it's done in a safe and regulated way nondiscriminatory hi we have seven rate rental cars at the airport we have six or seven airlines and we have food and beverage and retail we've override a concessionaires that help us make up our operation at the airport. The revenue from this particular potential entity today is X. very very very very small it's I assure you it's not about revenue and it's certainly not about taking sides I like to know if someone's offering a hot dog stand in my parking lot I want to know about it and I want to give them a concession agreement and I want to make sure that they're regulated in the third it's done appropriately no different with this company either and I think they have a great concept and we welcome but but there was talk about five percent of gross or ten percent of gross let me tell you why we have ten percent of gross it's it's not because I'm looking to get rich I swear it's not these these revenues or even a one one hundredth of a percent for us. What it's about is I have ten percent of gross with my six or seven rental cars and so to keep this operation on parity we recommended the same thing for this agreement. When we did the uber and lift. The taxi cabs are paying us two dollars a trip so guess what we charge reform left two dollars a trip it's to keep them on parity it's not to distinguish or give everyone an advantage over the other we welcome all and I think they're models great and I'm hoping in ten years from now that will be just like uber lift it'll have a good foothold in a in a big presence and it'll come to us over the years and say we don't need three spaces now we need a or whatever the case is work with. I guess I'm gonna ask the question again because quite frankly that's the concern I encountered on national was your answer to find it even better is that eight to ten years ago here is a new technology that an industry said there are parity will in reality their their competition I don't think anybody would say those two are competitive they're different entities and here we are with another technology and the perception is they tried to kill that one didn't get killed because a group bankers and the technology that was a consumer by and so they ended up being forced to work and now they're trying to kill this technology so help us understand that it's not a rental car business trying to keep someone out of their market place no no Sir no one's trying to kill anything we we welcome all operators at the airport so whether it's this technology or even some new ones we embrace that we may find ourselves and autonomous vehicles in the future we may have your people use my parking lot and and different things where the car drives you up in those types of things as well so we're going to be flexible and continue to work with the public and finding ways to operate and utilize our facilities at the airport We're not here as an advocate of the rental cars nor we hear an advocate of Toro we are the owner and operator of the airport on your behalf on the public's behalf so we just whether or that agency that you have to come to a kind of like the mall owner you have to come to a secure an agreement with us in order to operate if you're operating on our premises we want to know who you are what you're doing and to some of the other points we want to make sure it's safe. From from a safety locational people picking them up I wanna make sure it's well it marked in the vehicles are identified with a sticker medallion or whatever way it's on and at the same time I can't little park on the kerb second because of security issues and finally I want to make sure they have the appropriate insurance because I'm just a layman but my understanding is when you conduct a commercial operation that's outside your personal insurance is we want to make sure you have the appropriate insurance that's covering this as well so if somebody does rent that vehicle that the cover for whatever mishap make me happen down the line so I assure you this is not of us siding with either company we simply want to know who was operating or premises and this would shift the burden of requiring them to them to come to us that's what we're trying to you we want to make sure that they're compelled to have that agreement because it's very difficult when we go on and after trying to figure out what these vehicles on whether operating if we go out from here I can't figure out if if these three vehicles or personal or tore order they are and so I just want to know who is operating on or before that's all. One thing Sir if I may add. We cannot randomly make deals as we talked about in your committee and I want to talk about it to this committee under FAA grant assurance twenty two airports are. Required to establish reasonable and not unjustly discriminatory conditions for all users of the airport so when you look at our terms of the agreement those terms again reflect what the rental cars pay outside of the space because to rule is not needing space inside of the airport so when you look at those terms again we are treating both of those businesses are those classes the same because again you're renting cars you have a different delivery mechanism which are all about innovation and we want the most ground transportation options for our passengers but we cannot operate in a discriminatory or unsafe manner and I think once we signed an agreement with them will put him on our website will list him as another alternative for transportation we want them to although their fledgling business wanting to grow and prosper Service sort your point we once once we acknowledge them and sign an agreement with and we will do everything we can to support them so there's there's absolutely no attempt to do anything otherwise. The other questions from members. Saying none per share thank you thank you appreciate. No one else signed up to speak for against this Senator Eads if you want to close. Thank you Mr chair committee I know this is take a little bit of time but I just want to share that and I'm glad Mr by sure you mentioned Airbnb and that was mentioned in the in the committee meeting the other day that's a prime example of a new disruptive business model that when they first came in sometimes is not on a level playing field with everywhere else and I've used Airbnb several times for vacations over the last few years and now when you book through Airbnb what do you do you pay this local apple tax the state act applicable tax any potentially advertising promotion commission taxes the bed so that they are on the level playing field with those local hotels and stuff they're competing for that business I'm all for competition I think this is just putting those people on the same field as everybody else in these airports so that we're all have the most opportunity get be safe make sure everybody's on the same level and then I appreciate a good vote and I would move to pass. Right. Is there a second second by Senator English during the discussion. All in favor say aye. All opposed Like sign. All right the congratulations Senator read you passed your bill. We will go on to Senate bills four seventy eight thank you. I'll wait on Amendment okay we will go to House Bill seventeen fifty seven. R. seventeen sixty seven. This this won't take you long will it. Your reworking the. Thank you Mr chair and committee this is house bill seventeen sixty seven that was brought to us by representative Johnson on the house and and it kind of falls in line with another bill that I had earlier in the session talk about innovation and and new technology in the autonomous vehicles and this one actually is called the personal delivery device the bill and so this is focused on those kinds of devices that come into into your neighborhoods and there's one specific one that's being already used in some other states by Amazon and some other companies like that with a drop them off into a like a commercial area and then they travel through the neighbourhood along the the neighborhood streets or along the sidewalk and then can edit of an appropriate appropriated time by you then we'll meet you out front. You have a code or they punch in something and then it opens up and you get your package out of there for that particular neighborhoods so um this is. No I don't either. they're designed to work in neighborhoods controlled by drivers to dispatch them from a central spot so like if you have like a commercial area that's close by neighborhood they can release from there to go in the neighborhoods they arrive at a pre designated time so the the homeowner has the ability to determine what time they're going to be able to have. they can't go on the main city streets or or a county road country roads and then also in the bill we've given cities the option if they determine to opt out of this if they don't want the devices in their town so we we give them the control to be able to manage however they they see fit this actually set up of a a strong framework of how we would like to see this works so that we have you know the ability for this to be managed in an appropriate way if we don't move this framework for then they still have the ability to start this program going for this and it takes away that potential opportunity for we want to put in code for the cities that side that they want don't want to have this in their local community that they have that option so this gives us those ability as well any questions at this time I'd be I'd be happy. I'll start in since you have read the bill. And you said it wouldn't possible for them to be on this city streets and in the bill allows that. And I mean that you sent me the video and it looks like a cooler and this is you know that twenty mile twenty miles per hour. The and it is allowed on city streets and I can imagine a cooler going twenty miles an hour but. If yeah I mean is is not just on the sidewalks it's it's it can go through the neighborhoods on the streets in the neighborhood streets as well but I don't I don't see that the company's going to see a benefit of trying to put one of these things out into like a major thoroughfare there the whole point is to duplicate delivery directly directly to home so and if I if we need if somebody ask questions I can answer I have somebody that can come to the table and probably answer some additional questions as well. We'll. I mean that that that's a concern your name for me if if there's somebody that common. Helps. I like this Mr Vickrey Committee one answer questions. If you've been to Sam's club if you've seen they've already got these autonomous force covers that are going to have the ability to stop somebody walks in their path same thing for kids or animals or anything like that as well so it's the same type of technology. Thank you Mr chairman my name is bill to create capital buys group and specifically we represent Amazon. You're so I think to to your point of the the purpose of being able to maneuver into the street in a specifically in the neighborhood is if there's an impediment on the sidewalk the centers but we're able to to realize that that from a pedestrian standpoint they yield or stop and then if there is a let's say that there's a break in the sidewalk or a hole in the sidewalk they can maneuver around that the purpose is not to have them in the streets because that's a that's a prescription for failure it's to merely maneuver around anything that might be that there might be an impediment in the sidewalk they're designed to only operate in neighborhoods so that as a for instance Amazon driver would go to an area that's close to neighborhood they would have a they would lease space from say a seven eleven or a it's coming go or something like that have a warehouse of these bots ready hello the packages up and then send them out into the neighborhood and then bring them back and they watch them and they drive them while they maneuver through the neighborhood. Thank you any other questions Senator Chesterfield you know last to know about all this stuff these at. Is this is a fancy name for John no no these are all operated on the ground this does not have anything to do with right no not not flip it is city street. Well at twenty miles an hour. I think Senator Chesterfield the the design specifically for Amazon and and and the others that I'm aware of is to is to maneuver on the sidewalk I believe the reason that that a mile per hour issues there is to allow them to give if they do have to maneuver around impediment on the city streets that they can maneuver around it rather quickly and then get back up on the sidewalk because the it does no good for the company to have these things on the street or moving to hide high speed on the sidewalk simply because that that's not advantageous in delivering the package and so there is a bility to operate and county streets or roads or municipal streets or roads. It does not allow them to operate on interstate highways a controlled access highways or state. Am I reading correct you're correct. As we know give an example of my neighborhood is about six hundred homes and and there's a shopping center nearby that has a harps and variety of other retail outlets nearby they can bring in one of the trucks to that civility and drop off those box in that and then do that would be convenient for them then to to work that entire neighborhood because there's so many homes in one area but in doing so they're gonna have to get out onto a city street to be able to get over into the neighborhood from there to be able to operate then on the sidewalk to actually go to the different homes. From the video that I saw you need to flag on that little cooler. What do I do know that and that's us from what I'm told that is a first or second generation piece of technology that is involved a great deal since then in terms of the the the development to be seen you know as as we saw during the pandemic there was an explosion of E. commerce cut across a lot of different companies and there is a shortage of in the supply chain to being able to get people to deliver things and so we did notice doesn't cost any jobs that actually add some jobs to some of these companies because you have to have repair people to to work on these things and glad to look after him but it does increase the efficiency and for the consumer to be able to pick up something and have it delivered at a preset time so that you're not you know you're not held hostage to the day if you if you there as well as eliminate hopefully the concerned that we're seeing more more of porch pirates and come home and your packaged and delivered it's gone when you get there that that is a big gap that is a big issue too as well. Senator Garner. Yes for city street goes seems like there's multiple. Ways for the be controlled in a manner that unreasonably interferes motor vehicles traffic or blocks public right of way she can't do that it has to well by all traffic laws going direction if they do have to get on the street or road as close as practice lead to the right outside of the industry in direction authorized track move it sounds like she is made to be in a situation where they got across quickly or say to come to a crosswalk in a big city they're technically passing street they can get on that without having it completely be excluded is that correct County didn't stop we drive down the middle of the courageous if they have to they have some legal protections with a lot of reasonable restrictions to make sure it is an abuse correct thank. Sir just feel what have you handling it now. All right now there is no framework in place and so. The they're not being used now we're here to try to put some framework in place again I'm not a lawyer I don't understand the specifics in this field I'm told by some that they feel like they could just start operations of companies could begin to utilize these devices or other devices because there's nothing that would prohibit them from doing so I don't I think for the legitimate companies involved in E. commerce they would like to see something in place so they can begin to implement this kind of delivery system and again there is no timetable for this so I can't specifically speak center Chesterfield and that. Between now and two years from now that we're going to see this develop it is just become more apparent given the last year that a contact was delivery that the increase in the supply than the actual supply chain to get the goods out to the individuals as they purchased them that that's become a high priority and that's that's why we're here okay thank you any questions or questions. Seeing none collected close your bill. I would just appreciate us given the company's opportunity continue to develop this technology and track those type of this is to Arkansas and and continue to move that innovation forward I would love to pass. Motion second by Senator English all in favor say aye aye All opposed Like sign regulations center and Senate thank you Mr chairman committee. Okay we will go to House Bill eighteen forty nine who is running okay. Introduce yourself and you're welcome. Senator Greg Leding district for. Thank you Committee I'll try to be brief she spent any time at all in a multi line hand highway you've no doubt seen the signs it's a slower traffic keep right that it's been law since two thousand thirteen to what house bill eighteen forty nine is trying to do is to give some further clarification to that low strength in a bit because this is a public safety issue about ten percent of all highway accidents can be linked to lane changes and when you have cars going up very speeds and you have some drivers are driving faster and they're weaving in between the traffic they can lead to accidents there's also research that shows that a car traveling five miles slower than the average speed of the flow of traffic is linked more accidents than a vehicle traveling five miles faster than the average flow of traffic so a lot of people come to see keeping the leveling clear as a good safety issue you so house bill eighteen forty nine we're trying to do here it's just make sure that unless you are passing another vehicle unless all of the lands or under construction or otherwise closed if other lands are in disrepair toward the are undeniable or unsafe or if you're preparing to exit the highway on the left side you need to be driving out of the left lane to keep that line clear for other drivers this could include even emergency response drivers in it'd been oftentimes I'll be driving down the interstate and check the review mirror it's clear glance back again a couple seconds later and suddenly there's present evidence for state trooper right behind me traveling at a high rate of speed because they're trying to respond to an accident just keeping that land clear can help improve those response times can also hopefully to fewer accidents. The biggest argument against is that we sometimes hear from people is that well the right lane is just too rough you know there was a stretch around alma that used to be like driving across the surface of the moon the Department transportation since resurfaced the road is relatively safe but again this bill does allow for people to drive outside or in the left lane if the other lands are in serious disrepair other people will say that I'm driving the speed limit I should be able to drive and whatever line like. People should adhere to the speed limit that is another safety issue but there will always be people who are driving above the speed limit of people might be driving faster than you And so again it's just for everybody's safety to keep the left lane clear. And it will say the departs my understanding the department of transportation does not oppose this bill in the state police are supportive and I believe lieutenant colonel Sean garner might be in the room here to answer questions if necessary. Questions from the committee. We're going to have. Okay Senator Garner. Senator right thank you. Are you taking kind of a. Objective. The standard when a police officer can pull somebody over and basically crying of subjective element to when you can pull over because it seems like to me that impeding the fourth floor traffic on the current law is pretty clear there's a car backed up behind you you can see that you've been going a certain amount of distance behind it with this now you're making a judgment call and it's not clear and plain language I actually the past a vehicle get back over is he still not leveling to loan. It seems like those multiple angles that if a police officer want to pull somebody over they just have their now subject to rather than a more objective standard we disagree with that. I would given the current law officers are still making those kinds determinations about whether someone is driving in the left lane for too low a pressure lieutenant colonel garner might be able to better address that. She entered introduce yourself and your. Thank you Mr members of the committee my name Sean Garner I'm a deputy director of field operations for the Arkansas state police in regards to your question senator garner of what this will do and the way that I understand it is currently written if somebody continually travels in that left hand lane of traffic then they could be pulled over for a violation of this particular fans only impeding flow of traffic we and an individual is driving say seventy miles per hour in that traffic continues to back up behind them whether it's an emergency vehicle he's trying to get around he then has to maneuver through several vehicles to try and get around the traffic this would eliminate that each. Okay one of the eliminated I think give legal structure would be more likely to port over one limited so far mineral south Arkansas on a four line and there's not a court within Sturch forty miles of me. And I drive in the left left wing too low you can write me a check. If you continually travel in that lane there's no other way around me let's say the zombie apocalypse happens there's me and one police officer they can pull me overnight situation correct. They could but I can I can say that. Most officers with the discretion that they have is is not going to continue going to pull somebody over and sat on for that you might pull somebody over and let him know what the law is pulling over inside I'm just because they're traveling in there is no other traffic anywhere near on. The likelihood of that is very minimal but possible it is possible thank you. Senterfitt this is our go to Senator Leding first we have a current law. Clearly identified delineate the difference between what this written bill is persons wanting existing law because I understand I think we all know traveling in the left lane. Being an obstacle is against the law what does this bill do and is it may be found in Senator garner's questions is this you can't drive in the left lane for a length of time at all is that what this bills doing different than the current statute registered clarified existing statute because right now the signs are posted say slower traffic keep right but unfortunately a lot of drivers floor is relative again you might be driving the speed limit and so you just assume that when nobody can be going faster than me because I'm driving at the posted limit so it's okay for me to be in this lane but again there might be an emergency vehicle that you know comes racing up behind you or this is gonna be other drivers that are driving the other beyond the speed limit and so we're trying to. Just further strengthen the current law to make sure that we keep that leveling clears that were avoiding unnecessary lane changes in that there's a line clear for emergency responders. The House the different follows how is that different than existing law. I mean what are we doing clearly different in this law than what's already out there because I'm really struggling with what's the difference it's. Not a significant changes really further clarification saying that unless you're doing these for specific things you must be out of the left lane was under the current law. the old language of the motor vehicle shall not be operated continuously in the left lane of a multi line multi laned roadway whenever impedes the flow of traffic so under the existing law against senator garner is what you could be driving in the left lane if you weren't impeding traffic under this version of the law you have to keep that leveling clear so his question was valid and that's the difference is that law enforcement. To the law enforcement's testimony was we wouldn't do that that is what the new laws going to state is that if you're in the left hand lane you can be pulled over for a length of time for this new statute you could be. Got a question how many citations were made under the current law in the last year. I do not have those numbers it it it is very difficult when when a person is traveling the speed limit typically what will happen even though that they are impeding the flow because traffic is is backed up for twenty plus vehicles behind them if you sign on and and they are at the speed limit than most judges will rule that they were traveling the speed limit so therefore they was not impeding the flow what this will help DO is reduce the multiple lane changes if you've got someone who is an aggressive driver and is driving over the speed limit. I'm I'm not telling you anything you don't know they they go from the number three line to the to to the one back to the to to the one all the way back over to the three to get around that line of traffic this would keep that left lane open so that those people are not doing those things and causing those crashes. Senator Garner thank you but wouldn't require me now say I'm driving the speed limit and there is twenty fourth from a driving five miles over if I'm in the right lane going to have to go around them go back go around and go back to go around and go back all the way down to be Klaus low riding a bike look for second pass all four U. one good shot but there's distance between them now you're making a judgment call if I have to pull back in the right lane is that correct. Because I'm always passed on but they might be for their part why have to continuously shift back and forth in the right leveling that's correct okay. General questions Senator Tucker. Thank you Mr my questions for Senator Leding do you have any personal experience with this issue. I am here to all posted signs but I do drive about the yes to get back to fables about a two hour and forty five minute drive fortunately all interstate. Thank you. Senator garner and you drive the speed limit the whole way don't you senator. Yes. The controls for. Any other questions. Senator Chesterfield. So what is the genesis of the bill if you just come up with this subchapter your bill it's a reserve Andrew Collins actually filed legislation that would sponsor. Yes yeah. Senator Pitsch. So if. Senator Leding I guess my question would be and maybe you can help me answer this I've got constituents that sent me a note the say why are we building multi lane interstates and form we can use one. And if we're only building the second interstate to pass. What a waste. And so my question to them and to you yes the law we have I understand dilly dallying in the left lane get out of there and we told our lawn first Forsman several years ago get them out of their of their of their impeding traffic I'm really struggling with why nobody around we need this this addition to that law it seems like a micro managing. Of the opportunity so help me understand that and explain that to our constituents bill to touch on the last point first when there's nobody around again I think law enforcement we use our discretion and only if you are causing problems or weaving through traffic or impeding traffic would you be pulled over as for creating a lane that specifically for passing we we create lands for specific purposes on all kinds of row to the turning lane or high occupancy vehicle lane in oftentimes in larger cities you see those but there's not necessarily any traffic and they're much less traffic because those reserved for specific activities so with the purpose of the left lane it is to keep a a clear and safe land for drivers or first responders to be able to navigate more safe. If any other questions from members. Seeing none don't have anybody signed up to speak for against the bill what's the your grocery bill. I appreciate a speedy vote. what will it was surreal motion motion by Senator Chesterfield second by Senator Tucker all in favor say aye. All opposed. Sorry Senator thank you Committee thank you. I think we will go back to. House bill four seventy eight and there is an. All right. Senate bill four seventy eight. There's a handout on your desk also. Thank you Mr the serum motion to accept the amendment. Sections second all in favor say aye opposed Like sign. The. You're welcome to proceed as amended thank you Mr Clarke Tucker Senate district thirty two all the amendment the while there were some language in the bill about the health department and they reached out to me they were concerned about being included in the legislation so removed all references to the health department from the bill so that's what the amendment to. with that Mister chair I'd like to invite to roll workers up to the table with me with with your permission. Of course I'm familiar with the issue but they have a much higher level of expertise and can explain it better and and also answer questions better saw I'll defer to them. Please introduce yourselves. And you're welcome to continue. My name's Wayne Denson on the other state chairman for brother locomotive engineers and trainmen in Arkansas and I'm operating engineer can operate nineteen years. I will talk a little bit about this bill if it's okay school had let him introduce yourself. Sure my name's Gerald sale the third I'm the estate legislative director smart transportation I thank the chairman committee for here are issue here today welcome see I think Senator just about like servicing thank this committee also for them to speak on this bill the real lines workforce Arkansas are essential and lifeblood all citizens the commodities carried by rail is vast and necessary for the day to day operations of this great state. For example steel grain oil and coal or just a few of the books shipments that we haul road work twenty four three sixty five on call when we are needed we deliver when the lights need to stay home and then we'll need to be fed you think a river a worker the real work force in this state is large and costly adapting to fill the necessary needs that we sometimes take for granted transportation via rail is the most economical and energy efficient way for goods to be shipped engineer second option Arkansas are just as essential as police fire and medical professionals all these jobs are essential should be labeled as such we ask for for you today to a. Vote yes on Senate bill four Senate. Mr Asher said this from the beginning at this point the bill's been amended a couple times it's really a very simple piece of legislation all it really says is that in the event of a national pandemic declared by the CDC. That the rail workers are essential employees and railroad operating state has to comply with workplace guidelines provided by the CDC that's really all that's left in the bill that's what the bill does just so with that context. So. My question and this would be. The CDC says those guidelines but. I'm a nurse Ahmed owns those vehicles that. That how they want to and here those guidelines or or have their workers. Work within those guidelines this would preclude that that would be a straight CDC requirement at no we're not asking for the CDC to. To rule in this we're just saying if the CDC declares that the national pandemic that the state would be the one who makes the decisions I miss it is that has it in all the states during this pandemic. There's a different strain guidelines and directives I understand that. So guidelines you know that's what we're under right now and. There's a lot more flexibility under guidelines okay and the only reason why we wanted to make sure it was the CDC was mentioned that would only be in the case of a national pandemic is not gonna be. Utilized for anything other than that anything less than that so the use it lose your workers feel like that they were not protected through this. Yet to be quite honest with you I don't want to beat any of the carriers up at all we both working in Pacific of work for the university over seventeen years now and as you later I was involved with a lot of discussions and I think unions civic acted with care. On the national level now where it fell off was on the state level specifically in Little Rock we ran into some issues where we had people turning in things on the safety hotline which they provide force and then that was being deleted or crew rooms weren't being cleaned we also had locomotives that were cleaned and just due to the nature of how it works if we work in round robin cruise for the cruise change daily. We work in close confines we time which is at the end of our days service in close confines with other crew stay in hotels close confines of this creates a van rides with other careers if something were to spread it was spread quickly and what my main concern was I mean we we can talk about you know our impact on the hauling military fertilizer grain food except for a medical supplies but one thing I want the committee to think about today or ask that you do is just think about Colin general. Holes number one producer of our electricity that we use for let's Walker in Arkansas and the coal power plants that we service aren't set up to receive the numbers are set to receive a call from anything other than coal trains in even if you tried I think a put down to submit paperwork here if you want to look at it you know Coltrane that's a hundred eight cars is with one to one thousand five R. one thousand fifty trucks that would be thirteen point nine miles of trucks back to back if they could even up there so you know in the in the middle of summer when we have the most demand due to air conditioners big round will haul two loads at least into every coal plant in should something happen our crews go down you can't it's like trying to find a pilot we have to be a for a certified on that specific territory you know if we aren't then you're gonna have problems delivering the coal coming from Wyoming and should the coal plants suffer a shut down we'll see what we saw in Texas here recently that's that's been my main concern during the whole pandemic is that is something did spread or something was actually worse than COVID nineteen in the future that it could really impact our infrastructure on the state level. So. In that transition between teams. This is the first team not clean up after it's only us are you all expect somebody else going you know we we do clean up after own mass of on the locomotives the problem has been is we didn't have supplies to clean up after ourselves the. The supplies are given to us I mean you get on locomotive and I've got pictures of or would just be black racks you know nothing nothing replace for we could clean ourselves if we wanted to. Right thank you senator garner. Thank you yeah I think what's. Concerning to me is we are your nationalizing in state law that we follow the federal centers for disease control prevention guidelines not directives rather than the state of Arkansas having any kind of say on that so the federal government says that workplace requirements requires you to do anything now your providers your your operators have to follow that even though the directives in Arkansas by the governor and legislator could say something differently because the law will be doing that and if they don't follow the guidelines on directives that I imagine there's going to be. Either structure where you can go after him on that or maybe a legal case could be made against them is that what this is because I mean the naturalization of this is what concerns me no honestly our our main goal and you can see there with the letter we provide instantiation Merrick road which represents class once and state of Arkansas they sent out requesting that the governor would go ahead and declare as as essential that's what we really want we want on the state level because we understand specially during the pandemic every state has reacted in a different way but we just want the next time it comes for that the governor would we would have to come to him and ask for him to recognize this as a sedan I could be I'm like to be behind this is saying that you have to follow the guidelines of the CDC so if tomorrow the CDC guidelines said yep put on seven mask in your company only gave you six mask you have a legal provision now to say you want fall or in the law in Arkansas we could use that against no I apologize of this we read that wasn't our intent or intent was to make it where we would just be recognized in the state level only in the instance of the CDC not that they give us a gallons of the CDC recognized that it was a global pandemic guards to section be one less admin changes memorandum not think it does in the event of a natural pandemic declaration by the center for disease control prevention a railroad operating in this state shall comply with the workplace guidelines provided by the centers for disease control and prevention. That's federal that's under law they shall comply. Misread that Senator Tucker you're not I just kind of echo what Mister Celis said which is that the intent there was it can't just be kind of a little issue that comes up it's got to be a true nation wide issue and it's gonna be declared by the CDC and that's just what the intent was when the legislation was drafted with that I can understand intent that's not how it's written thank you Sir. Senator hill. Senator Tucker I'm not a lawyer. But it gets the intent what was meant there and that's not what it says we ninety back up and we look at that. We can take a look at that and and and and you know just the concern is that the place where we are the session but I don't think there's anything we can do about that at the time but we can we can try to revise that and bring it back on Thursday. We are at this events are a committee offense or at with the sponsor. We'll okay we're good all right we'll pull it to him or make sure I'm I'm following this correctly to what is your ultimate goal with this bill. What what are they not doing that you want done at the river. It's my ultimate goal is just to standardize it and and be recognized is important to the state of Arkansas this leads this would alleviate the association of American railroads of leave yet organizations the carriers themselves from coming to the governor whoever that governor shall be in this instance and and asking them to decide at that point that we are essential employees are asking for you guys to decide for them ahead of the time the way we don't have to scramble should anything happen god willing it won't happen again in our lifetimes but basically trying to get out ahead have a plan for the future. This might be outside preview of anybody here and we've done that with other professions what we've put in law there is essential in the case of pandemic yes is there any other kind of provision for that you know of I don't but I'm not that's kind of a. Not that I'm aware of. And that's not to say that other professions would be worthy of that it's just the nature of their work they're the only ones who are licensed to do it and certified to do it and and what they're delivering I think is what they brought this issue forward and and and I. You know filed the bill I want to respond to Senator hills question if you got something else. So I'm for me Senator Hill it's less backward looking I mean there were some things you know we all everyone we were in a new reality you know during COVID nineteen everyone was learning as they as they went as you can see in some of the handouts there were some of the things that the carriers that advocating that their employees be essential which were you know exemplary so that's all good so for me it's less backward looking and more just looking to the future hopefully none of us ever have to deal with this again. But if in if and when we do these guys what they do not sentence it's really not about them it's about the service they provide for all the people in Arkansas and if if if they were infected badly by the pandemic than it would affect the entire state and it's just making sure that that they're able to do their work in those circumstances. Go ahead yeah I'm I'm not asking for them to amendment for me on that one might make sure we're clear that I really don't know if that's going to change my mind at all so you may as well go ahead and do what you gotta do. Well that's what I wanted to ask before we adjourn center I just wanna understand from you what you might be willing to support if if it were changed I've got agitations on both fronts of both houses written which I brought up in an if we're going to be declaring. Somebody essential on that thank you know I believe the or how that would limit any kind of movement in case next pandemic Hicks will not next pandemic kit might be completely different in or emergency hits or something and now without and within the law without any kind of leeway to moving maneuver around it might create issues I'm not gonna senate sport amended version but I'm saying aye right now I definitely can support us by some opposition we have committee can you would want to you can regional to. Okay Senator we have to. We have to the wants to come and speak against if you want to keep it on keep it our goal under whatever you. That's up to them we're gonna pull it down and and and you try to figure out to fix and and run on Thursday if they want to testify now I've certainly there are more than welcome to do that but I think one way to Thursday then you know I'll just to further the DO the do those who have signed up to speak against want to wait or do they want to be heard today. Okay. You want to come together or separate. This introduce yourself and you're welcome percent. Mister chairman I'm all done with the law firm Friday or to Clark and I'm here Hey if the Arkansas railroad association. Paul Denham. Go ahead enters yourself. Yes Sir my name is Michael Gary I'm with BNSF railway company. A whoever wants to start I'll start if you would Mr chairman I think the fundamental flaw with this bill regardless of its intention and good desires is that it misunderstood it misunderstands misconstrue regulatory scheme that affects real wrote states in the center Clause CDC cannot mandate railroad safety procedures policies. That is the purview of the federal railroad administration Congress has given the authority to establish national safety standards and every area for a rope safety to the Federal Railroad Administration also the surface transportation board is jurisdiction were rolled operations and procedures in January of this year the president issued executive order thirteen nine ninety eight that mandated the use of face mask and all of. Modes of public transportation. The. The the executive order directed the secretaries of various agencies including the our. Department of transportation to issue their regulations affecting the carriers that day oversaw. In response to death F. or eight entered its emergency order number thirty two it mandated face masks by freight railroads under its jurisdiction it's safety jurisdiction. The thing about the about the mercy four is that the F. all right said it was not exercised real road safety offers authority over any COVID issue other than placed mass. Mandating place mass the F. R. A. Clark sure did not mandate compliance with any other CDC guideline this bill would require railroads to comply completely with the CDC guidelines in that is not permitted under federal regulatory scheme. It's simply beyond the reach of the state. And for that reason the association urges. That you represent a rejects Senate bill four seventy eight. Thank you. Mister chairman I have some handouts would be appropriate this time to pass the the. Staff yes handouts. This. This is. What I'm presenting to you is correspondence from my company BNSF railway dated March twenty fifth. On the twenty eighth which was issued at the onset of the a pandemic and describes the actions that we took at that time is still thank you today it's a two sided document also provided some documentation similar stretches of of some of the signage that we put in our facilities safety topics as it relates to working safely with cleaning chemicals provide a copy of the mandate to mask mandated Mr Benham spoke of just a few moments ago is a memorandum of of an emergency order I should say requiring facemask you Senator operations and also provided a systems of wide memorandum from being a separate way to all employees as relates to operations requiring compliance with all CDC guidelines. This bill is unnecessary it's needless and unfairly targets railroads this issue is so concerning these legislative actions why are railroads the only industry being singled out why would this legislation apply to other transportation facilities like truck terminals or facilities cargo airport terminals. Or other industries in the state for that matter the fact is this bill is a solution in search of a problem regardless of the industry and here's pot everything we do BNSF railway our highest priority is safety safety compliance period safety is paramount there are no compromises everything else is secondary safety as part of our company and our industry's culture it is in our DNA. Safety and safety compliance being a self and within the industry during the current pandemic's onset is no different BNSF is taken the pandemic in implementing protective measures to safeguard our employees as seriously as we do when ensuring our hard working employees out of the rules are protected and return home safely every single day in March of twenty twenty at the onset railroad employees work classified by the department of homeland security as essential workers to critical infrastructure as part of the nation's critical infrastructure railroad workers are integral in the supply chain so products and commodities just as they testified previously. Keep moving for concert customers suppliers and consumers but in order to keep relatively safe during the pandemic protect our operations and the nation's supply chain BNSF's medical team coordinated with our labor partners and implemented COVID safety measures and protocols as recommended by the CDC again recommended by the CDC at their guidelines they're gonna those measures are still in place today today our safety protocols are monitored internally by our compliance teams and the Federal Railroad Administration these these measures include the following employees able to work from home or structure to do so employees are supplied with face coverings hand sanitizer sanitizer wipes to clean common services in the respective workers BNSF instructs all employees to monitor for symptoms practice social distancing and take preventive measures we require face coverings were social distancing is it possible we provide enhanced work PlayStations with sanitization within the buildings at work stations and with work equipment implemented strict protocols to respond COVID nineteen and stop spread in the workplace including investigation contact tracing and follow up these are internal this is what we're doing internally we kept employees informed through an online COVID nineteen resource center as of March twenty one two thousand twenty one our company has procure the following more than two hundred seventy thousand reusable facemask with five hundred and fifty five thousand disposable face masks more than thirty nine thousand disposable respirators more than forty five thousand bottles of hand sanitizer that's about six thousand gallons. More than two and a half million hand wipes more than one point six million surface disinfecting wipes since the outset of the pandemic BNSF has implemented a robust contact tracing protocol to identify employees and close contact over nineteen cases and ensure those close contacts are promptly notified in excluded from work are protocols require notification to a broader population employees then the employees as close contacts to defined by the CDC in other words we go above and beyond the protocols defined the CDC guidelines. Beingness of also provide identification to distant contacts who may have shared workplace with COVID nineteen case or a quote presume positive under being assessed protocols they presume positive is an employee who is symptomatic but has not yet been has had a positive test is being assessed BNSF's employee notification protocol is again broader in scope both in terms employees are notified as well as the conditions for triggering notifications at the outset of the pandemic again a robust sanitization plan for facility shared equipment locomotives vehicles with the steps being his BNSF has enacted rules requiring that all high contact surfaces be cleaned disinfected after use additionally we requires contractors or contractors to clean and sanitize their facilities are high contact servicers when used by drivers and passengers before each trip between drivers. When an employee's warranty or self isolated due to experiencing system symptoms or having a close contact with the code case BNSF provides a special four day leave benefit to bridge any shortfall between employees exclusion from work and the benefits additionally being a self health insurance pays for one percent of the cost of COVID nineteen test finally I'd like to also add that since and railroad employees were classified as essential employees to critical infrastructure back during the fall we coordinated myself included I worked diligently and communicated with state health departments around the territory that covered including the state of Arkansas we communicate with the health department and leaders of the state health department as well as the governor's office to ensure all freight rail workers as classified as essential employees to critical infrastructure were appropriately included in the property phasing plan of the state backs nation plans we spent countless hours ensuring that our employees. We're deemed essential and and receive appropriate location within the phase in plan of the vaccination plan including the State of Arkansas you closing I'd like to say once again this bill is unnecessary it is needless and unfairly targets one industry and one transportation secretary I thank the committee for its time and the opportunity to speak today on it being assessed behalf I'm happy to answer any questions thank you Mr chairman Mr chairman if I may of note that in the CDC guidelines there are no enforcement provisions the CDC said was not doing so at this time because it felt that companies would voluntary comply with the guidelines however in the emergency order from the Federal Railroad Administration Melrose are subject to fines of up to a hundred eighteen thousand eight hundred twenty six dollars a day if the violation continues the bottom line is simply that the state cannot extend the application of the federal guidelines beyond what the F. or a provides. Thank you gentlemen US questions from the committee. Well you. Absolutely If there's nothing further go ahead Senator Tucker. My only comment is just all of that very well may be true I don't dispute any of it I don't think it's really the purpose of the bill the bill is not about COVID nineteen or any carriers response to it it's about next time a pandemic coming hopefully by in this room is long gone from this earth when that happens we don't know who the carriers will be at that point in time much less who management is but there will hopefully be carriers and hopefully real workers and and this is just isn't designed to make sure that the the whoever is in charge at that point in time does everything that you describe that you did this time so that's that's just the that's just the point of the bill and I just want to make that point go ahead. I appreciate that perspective but I would like to just close by saying every decision at this that our company made in our industry for that matter because our industry even though each individual railroad is responsible for its own policies in line with this build its own with comply with federal guidelines on its own we'll work together on these issues all the carriers worked on these issues we work through our National Association of to compare notes and discuss what's working what's not working every decision that my companies may be in a separate way I can't speak for the others but I imagine it would be the same every decision is grounded in CDC guidelines and CDC guidance Our company is in the business of supplying of products Inc and and commodities to consumers we're part of the national supply chain there's nothing that the our company our industry is going to do or not do that which compromise our operations or the supply chain so we don't really need legislative oversight to ensure that we comply with those with the guys from CDC a pandemic thank you Mister Chesterfield. Thank you thank you John for being here. There is a breakdown somewhere. Between you and the workers who have to concern. And we all get together and spoken about it so that we because you know if if I'm listening to you then you're the workplaces utopia. But there is the Senate shall be a. And I'm just wondering if the two groups cannot come together and just is it about what the concerns are so that we can mitigate that concern and of course the Senate Tucker is well aware this bill will pass today we get that but minus for the longer term. that employer and employee get together and do that which is best for this may the railroad such an essential part of my uncles reimbursement and so have a great respect for what you do and I have great respect for the workers as well so I would just ask that. there be some communication there that would mitigate this concern. Senator just been operation at that and and as far as history goes in and we all know there's a there's a rich history a tradition of within the road but part of the history goes back to collective bargaining and our relationships and our partnerships with our our labor partners are companies all have. Labor relations teams we have medical teams we have health and wellness teams The employees are represented by their late union leadership anytime there is an issue any time there's an issue. Within the company within the working conditions those that union leaders here from those employees in those late union leaders are supposed to go to their union leadership and and have a discussion a dialogue with company with management it It we've we've had other legislative proposals in this body this section where the of our labor partners decide to use the legislative body as an opportunity to negotiate their collective bargaining process and and that's a shame because the collective bargaining process belongs to our labor partners it was establishing began by them and instead of going to the legislature every time there's an issue I would welcome and our companies would welcome that we work these ideas of these issues out of through the appropriate channels and there there clearly is a break down and I don't know if it's whose side is on but we're always open for dialogue there are rules laws and procedures that apply to those to those dialogues and and I think they need to be followed instead of running it bring legislation to the legislature every time there's an issue. Thank you. And the. I don't disagree with that but they are free and they're voting citizens just like everyone else but I appreciate your comments is there any other questions. No other questions if your will is to pull it down for the day. All right we'll put that back on the schedule for Thursday is that what you want to do. All right thank you is there any other business to come before the committee. Seeing none we are adjourned.