ALC-Administrative Rules

Read it and then we'll get into having a Plant Board come to the table. So members executive subcommittee has referred an emergency rule for consideration asking for recommendations as to review and approve of this rule. As this is an emergency rule we are not taking action to review and approve this rule we are only charged with making recommendations to the executive subcommittee that unless otherwise directed will meet immediately after our meeting today and with that culture you have anything you want to share thank you all right so let's go ahead and get the members of the plant more to the table they're gonna testify and I've got down Mr wait Hodgen Mr Scott Bray in y'all one bring anybody else with you feel free to bring them in when you get to the tables if you would please state your name and the title for the record please John. Wait hajj department of agriculture. Scott Brady cornerback culture plant industries division director all right and do me a favor if you would pull those mikes a little closer to you and We'll be able to hear a little better I think one thing I would like to do do you all have a copy the time table that was provided as far as how we got to where we are time table wise. I do okay would you mind just walking us through the time table members you should have a copy of this but just kind of briefly go through it and then I want to just give you a chance to have an open Mike to talk for second and then members we're going to get right into the questions so if you've got questions just go ahead and push a button so we get you on the board and I'll recognize you for questions and whichever one you generally want to present the time line please go ahead. Thank you Mr chairman members of the board you have the the time line in front of you and we started timeline with the governor's task force in twenty seventeen and the recommendation that came from that task force and then the. As a result of that task force recommendation of an April twenty fifth cut off date the plant board issued an emergency rule at that point to banned the sale and use of die camera and then following November they issued a permanent rule prohibiting and applications of da Campbell after April twenty fifth. A rules effective February of eighteen spring of twenty nineteen board amended the rule to adopt cut off date of may twenty fifth and then in twenty nineteen they kept the same cut off date but they added a provision for late season application permits for lands east of the Mississippi River. and then December of last year the board met considered entertaining considered various motions to change the cut off date and I think in the summary that we've also provided it said the board was unable to reach an agreement and I just wanna make sure that everyone understands what we mean there there were several motions that were Introduced to extend the cut off date and the none of those motions received a majority vote of the one. Vote that did receive a majority was to simply at that time Keep the may twenty fifth cutoff date but allow a late season permit until June thirtieth. And so in December the board and simply did not change the cut off date when they were considering it but earlier this year the board did meet again and they met as a result of a petition for rulemaking. and the administrative procedure act says when you get a petition for rule making you either deny the petition or you initiate rulemaking and the board simply voted to initiate rulemaking and they left the drafting of the actual rule to staff staff drafted the rule but it out for public comment as required by the APA. And at the meeting earlier this week Plant Board I voted to amend the rule and you say the provisions of the rule there that they voted to put in place in order to have this rule in place for the this year growing season it will need to be adopted as an emergency rule you happy to answer any questions. Generational get you just second but what I want to do is I'm gonna ask Okay shall didn't know what the Supreme Court came out with the ruling today there was some conversation about how that might impact any discussion today or any decisions made by the committee I want to ask Matthew and Rebekah they're going to come in just give us a highlight of it but they'll not be able to speak to anything as far as legal interpretation so when the gentleman would mind stepping to the side To go table in. Give us a brief explanation please. And if you all will when you have your seat name and title for the record please. Good afternoon Matthew Miller with legislative research. Rebecca Miller rice pure of Legislative Research. I kind of a breaking news situation here because the decision just came down a couple hours ago and we've obviously had just kind of a cursory amount of time to look over it but in a nutshell the issue was before the Supreme Court pending regarding the constitutionality of the make up of the plant board regarding the fact that there were members appointed to the plant board from private entities the statute allowed certain private entities to make the appointment directly and today the Supreme Court ruled that the statute was in fact unconstitutional to the instant to the extent that it allowed those private parties to make the appointments the opinion remand it down to the lower court to is it said remove the unconstitutional members of the board so they'll be some further action pending further and as it goes back to the lower court and they'll be the ones who actually handle the removal of that and move forward. the sinister whether any other specific questions you wanted us to consider Senator Hammer not for not for me personally met any members have any questions or want to ask. Thank you just want to get that out with the explanation few German come back to the table please recognize Senator Rice for questions. Thank you all. Senator Rapert you're recognized thank you the general thank you for being here today and. And realizing you've been dealing with the. Misstated ministry procedure act. Was there a rule that had a time line that this decision was supposed to be done by. No Sir so would first be done earlier in the year. Just done when it gets done. Right okay Compromise was mentioned repeatedly and some articles coming out of the Monday. Meeting. when I read some of the comments in the responses are in repeated responses was you know part of its scientific part of it is other things There is a continued one mile buffer. For the use of lasers experimental I'd station. Can you give me the reasoning for that when we are cutting. what I would call private citizens to half of that distance and then for some Bills it's down to a quarter is that not right a quarter of a mile can you give me the thought process of why that is. Yes Sir Senator up I could not speak for while the board made that decision there what select mac if you will thank you I'm sorry is that better good yes Sir Sir I couldn't speak for the board made that decision there there was quite a bit of discussion on that topic topic between the board members up but I do not know why they opted to keep the quarter mile for the non tolerant crops and half mile for the specialty crops and one mile for research are you do you understand what citizens feel alive yes Sir it's you know it's one rule for the and another for me yes that was discussed in the meeting but but I cannot speak for why they chose to to keep the rule as it is but the current rule from last season is a mile and then is it is that I have it's a half mile in some instances yes Sir there was no quarter mile no Sir okay thank you at all I have to stab Mr thank. Senator sample. Thank you and my line to grow my question for you about signing on the to pay your one one we're going to ninety degrees when I thank the motion other state to allow us eighty five. And we all know that we're dealing with the violence how product and so. There is no temperature cut off associated with the rule Senator Samper's the that has been a topic of discussion and in several past board meetings they discussed you know trying to establish a certain temperature to to trigger the cut off for lack of better words they they've looked at eighty degrees I think they've looked at the the high seventies I remember seeing somewhere where someone mentioned ninety degrees but that that is not part of this rule it is cut off by date June thirtieth is the cut off for this rule. Thanks richer now bear hold on. Okay. Senator. Hickey. Yes yes our minds from Plant Board if if we take no action on this day what what happens does the rule that's in place does it revert back to that or does it is or have to be other action by the what Plant Board could you go through that with the the may twenty fifth St will will simply stay in place this is simply an amendment to that rule and if you don't and if an amendment is not approved in the current rule stays in place okay and what are the buffer zones that are in place with that. One mile for research stations. And specialty crops in organic crops half mile for non tolerant crops. So it's still one but it's one mile under the current rule that's in place for special reason for specialty crops also yes Sir okay thank you Sir. All right going to Senator Hill next than senator Caldwell senator hill. I have a two part question for you here no mention of public hearings were held I don't know when you'll held them in we're we're and we end on that in the second part of that is what other states have a cut off date. Would you repeat the first part of your question please how many public hearings the gel held we're and we did you all have we have one public hearing and that was held veas zoom and that was held earlier this week. Okay. But the other states that have a cut off date. All right and and I could be wrong I believe there are two other states that have cut off dates. I think they are June twenty. And I want to say. The Indiana. And and there's another one but it's I'm I'm losing I'm sorry senator I believe Indiana Illinois Mississippi I'm sorry number set Minnesota may have cut off dates earlier than the federal label but I am not absolutely certain on that I can tell you know what no other contiguous states and no other southern states have any cut off dates other than what is in the federal way so the ones that have cut off dates right now are a lot farther north than we are correct thank you. Let me ask you question ago center Caldwell the. If the if they don't have a cut off date then they're operating by the federal label is that correct that's correct and the federal label cut off date is June thirty for soybeans in June of July thirty for kat okay so there is a cut off date on the federal label it's June thirtieth then what was the other one I'm sorry July thirty for cotton June thirtieth for soybeans July thirty for cotton okay all right Senator Caldwell. Thank you Mr so we kept the one mile buffer zone for the university research forms of it in the actor to say that last year at the counter unit that the doc and will kill the research property reusing a kinder. I'm not sure the extent of damage but the research station did suffer I came to damages shall. I'm not sure kill the plants but I think but but it but is not going to destroy research it did impact researchers identify or the research is the the other thing we get course of up live in an area of state where we have a lot of specialty crop of particular son of tweet retainers and and they're very susceptible to the damaging death from from da camera and the we're we're going to take that buffer from half mile down the quarter mile route which will function in a world of of danger the other thing is that for the chicken growers that have the non GMO chicken the you have to health non GMO soybeans which means you can't use of black and the soybean seed and non GMO corn and the Viet that didn't described it or identify that is called a specialty crop in India to if the camera gets on with corruption again those farmers can't sell that corn or soybeans to the checking for or that they've contracted with the is that correct yes Sir I believe so thank you correct and of course if. For those states that have adopted the federal label the buffer zone there's two hundred and forty feet so the buffers that we have in place are still substantially larger than what would be allowed in other states. Any other members have questions. Mr chairman **** correct L. one thing that I said earlier when I was presenting the timeline I think I indicated that the board's first cut off date was April twenty fifth that's a typo it was April fifteenth okay all right thank you will go back Senator Hill. Thank you Mr chair I'd like for you all to expand just a little bit more what Senator Rice as while ago about the whenever he was talking about the negotiations that took place at the State Plant Board a meeting of the email the compromise that was mentioned in you know wouldn't give us a little bit a little color on that horse I think I can I'm I'm not sure exactly what you might be referring to the rule that was proposed that was notice to the public was just simply to adopt the federal label period so that would be as I said the June thirty cut off date for soybeans July thirty for cotton two hundred and forty foot buffer zone for everybody and so the board took into account the public comments of the need for additional buffer zones and they did reach a compromise they went to a flat cut off date of June thirty and. That's for both soybeans and cotton so there won't be a a July thirty cut off date for cotton it's June thirty for everything and they enacted more wider buffer zones then. Any other sites have. All right of. Going up shoes Baker Shepherd. Thank you Mr chairman of going back to I guess the question was asked earlier or may have been alluded to in the and one of the answers so currently there's Plant Board rule that provides a may twenty fifth cutoff date and then there's been some discussion about the federal label and what cut off dates are in place under that. As currently exists right now which controls the federal label or the current plan Plant Board rule and if I may have a follow up after we get an answer this question. Which a rule is stricter typically controls of the states cannot enact rulemaking that is less stringent than the federal rule so but states can go above and beyond the federal so our state rule of the may twenty fifth cutoff currently is more restrictive than the federal rule rule and it it it applies what we have a an agreement with the EPA to enforce Pfeffer the federal law and therefore the federal label in Pfeffer says states can enact provisions that are more strict so it would be a rule that would be controlling here Mister chairman if I could have follow up. Yes Sir. So one of the things that I've I've been told is with the may twenty fifth date as a practical matter practical matter that is essentially that would mean that the doc Campbell would not be used when it comes to cotton this year because cotton would not be I don't know what the terminology is but would not be ready for its application by the may twenty fifth date so I guess that would be my question is if the may twenty fifth date stands does that essentially prohibit the use of da Campbell on cotton in Arkansas this year and I should probably preface my questions was saying the my questions are probably maybe outside the scope of what this committee can actually do but because it was asked I wanted to try to get some clarity just for my own for my own information thank you. I can't say a hundred percent that it would of. Not all not permit use on cotton but that's probably pretty accurate statement yes Sir if it's planted light thank you. Speaker Scheppers my understanding that most farmers like to do two applications one very early one later and that's how you get the best control of the weeds in question and it would certainly almost. almost assuredly prohibit that second application thank you. The Speaker. All right thank you senator hill. I want to go back to our public hearings that we talk about what we go with the or the public hearing as you said will go on as in call how many people did you have the man and how was that advertised. Going on it's advertise according to the administrative procedure act the course we put that out for a thirty day public comment period and then we also give notice to the press and public of any upcoming Meetings of any agriculture board any agriculture boards including Plant Board and we also put that on our website as well And we had one seven hundred and seventy people participate. And members if you look at your paper clip on the website. By the agenda it has all the public comments that were of collected on that paper clip. All right Senator Hill done. K. Senator Rice. Thank you would you clarify of rich many things and all okay member were read what of. The mixture. Of. I'm just cause I round up whatever what Sturch what plants at nine thirty two G.. Okay the mixture of that with the lower level. I came up. Our water formulation can be the low level that is required under the federal rule now. It is allowed under the federal it is prohibited under our state correct yes. If if that original motion to go with the federal rule lonely. They would be able to mix yes Sir that yes. And all the hearings we've had on that camera and. Crop concerns in all. Was there enough. Evidence in the inspections in the after Pat. just going back in memory is it pretty well understood it probably some of the problem they were using the older formulations. To get rid of all I'm just saying what people do. Maybe mixin. Different banks with what we had in twenty seventeen was that you feel what some of the large problem was. In this lower level. Might. Fix some of the excess of problem. I have heard that senator but I have no evidence to support there is no way of records and all the inspection no Sir we don't have any evidence to support that okay but I have heard that as well yes okay thank you. Representatives. Thank you have a question about the. The if this rule is not adopted what what happens to me for farmers not to plant or were we talking about well we've we fall back on the current rule which has been in place for a couple years may twenty fifth cut off of the buffers will stay the same farmers can plant and maybe if they get plan in time they can get one use of the camera on a cross over the top of. Problem last couple years been whether called and Plant lake they weren't able to even get that one use I don't believe a lot of a lot of areas of the state. But if this does not pass we fall back on the same rule that we've operate under for the last two years suppose so are you saying then the need for this rule is because of so much rain in their late planting. The That would be for the Billboard Cision make the board the board determined that the need for this rule and I would hate to answer for the board certain that that was certainly part of the comments that the board considered and in making their decisions they did hear comments about the excessive rain that we've gotten also there was testimony about pick Wade which is is the way that the campus is primarily aimed at controlling has grown resistant to other forms of herbicides so it was it was a wide variety of the comments that the board took into consideration in making their decision thank. All right a regular senator Caldwell. Talk about the resistant to other chemicals would or should be fair misstated the bigwigs also come resistant attack and. Correct I think there is some some science to support. Senator sample. Thank you of Scott. How many cases of that many. How many complaints have of that campus. may issue should be operated in twenty twenty. how many did you have we have a two month pushing you Mike on there could could you turn your back to go thank I'm sorry Sir in twenty twenty we had a total of five hundred fourteen cases two hundred and seventeen of those were alleged I came. And how many of those cases have you resolved have you. The twenty twenty cases were still working through we have all but about fifteen or twenty that have been back into the office for staff to do the final processing we're we're working on resolving back twenty eighteen twenty nineteen cases. So. In twenty twenty you were operating under the may twenty fifth cutoff yes Sir. In you had five hundred fourteen cases there were were reported in. Hey Hey man did you say word that came to related to seventeen so you had two hundred seventeen cases of that camera holding the crops. When you have a current day due to my is it twenty fifth so what do you expect to. This year if you're growing extended data out to. June twentieth and have no nesting bearing on temperature now As just reading on some material I have illinois' says. Has a plaid eighty five degree temperature on the cut off of errors so I don't see advocacy how does your you're going control things with changing the cut off date in. From from one to procure is lower in may two or higher and you. Senator if if I can respond to that sure of the five hundred and fourteen total cases that we had two hundred and seventeen or alleged di camber only four cases were closed by staff within a violation identified. And you investigated all two hundred and eighteen cases yes Sir we invested by a gate at all five hundred fourteen but we did also investigate all through seventeen document cases in name and did you have an to seventeen when we had when we saw seventeen it exceeded twelve hundred eleven I knew is over a thousand and just for a point of reference in twenty eighteen we had a total of four fifty six two hundred alleged I camera in twenty nineteen we had a total again coincidentally for fifty six two hundred ten alleged our camera and then twenty twenty as we just said we had a total five fourteen with two hundred seventeen alleged account and when you find someone that is. That has violated that rule that your rule what is the. What do you mean do you find them has that we do we we have a enforcement. Response policy in place that the board has approved an expedited policy so we reach out to the respondent with a settlement offer and if they are willing to work with us and want to informally try to resolve it through our through negotiations we try to resolve it that way and if we can't resolve that way then it eventually comes before the board for hearing. Any resolution that we come to at the staff level is presented to the pesticide committee of the board for their review if they do not agree with it they can Senate back to staff and I am asking that we change it up the fine or bring it before them if they do agree they will report that to the full board for final disposition of so far I don't have the exact number of how many weeks so informally but it's been several and the committee and the board have approved although so far. the farmers that have been hurt their crops been harmed. Do they receiving restitution from this from anyone they they do not from us Act we we do not have the authority to reward. Restitution for lack of a better word we we do not get into that aspect so they're only there only way out is to is a civil suit right yes when any of those I think there has and what you might be able to comment more so we know there's been some but we're not involved in the civil suit so you don't you don't has five four four of personal charmed. We would if we were subpoenaed in call but as of yet we have not been called into one typically they will F. O. Y. R. case files. And I'm sure that is being used as evidence and we always respond if called just like some of the press control cases from from our days of if if we're called we going to survive so far we haven't been called in and the thank you thank procedure. All right just so you got a deal on the border got representative Jean I'm coming to next and Senator Stubblefield in Senator Hill. Represent Jean. Thank you Mr chairman of. The may twenty fifth could offer cotton right now. Of certainly. They can't get to applications in it for use this product. give me the kind of what you're thinking about when you went to June thirtieth. Which they may or may not be able to get to in a pending on the weather. Why did we just going to July July thirtieth like the federal regulations allow at the I once again that were employees of the department of agriculture so we have to be careful in in speaking for the board but just based upon the conversations the board had when they were discussing the motion to rule and all of the comments I think they were looking for something that they could get a majority of the board to agree on Making a change from may twenty fifth to July thirty first may have been more than than some board members were willing to support and sensed the federal level did have that June thirtieth cut off date for soybeans I thank the the general consensus was that was a compromise okay thank you favor chairman. Senator Stubblefield. Thank you Mr chairman can you give me the can you characterize it the S. C. rate or the effect of up to forty coaling verses to Campbell on people you. No Sir I'm sorry I I couldn't answer that question. Is is there a difference. Because someone in that meeting but it's stuck with a reserve shortage of two forty coaling the committee had the exam meeting on may the third. You know anything about that I do not I do not recall who made that statement I'm sure there is a difference but I do not have that research that died in front of me so I would hate to comment on that Sir. Thank you Mr chairman. Senator Hill. You made a comment while ago about science being back to the a what's the what is essential differences between using the may the twenty fifth cut off date in the June twelfth June the thirtieth cut off that was the site shows for the research from the university of Arkansas the which one is most beneficial for the farmers in the state of Arkansas. Well the science as best I have understood it over the last few years has not it has not zeroed in on a dated has been focused on air temperature. And the temperature that seems to trigger. Volatility accelerating is is in the low eighties if I if I remember correctly. So some of the dates in the past the April fifteenth date the may twenty fifth date have been established and proposed based on temperature data over the years and how you know when day temperatures tend to exceed eighty or eighty five owners exact answer but it is based on temperature. Not counted date. Okay go ahead. Try it transceiver. It's button again. All right now try okay eighteen mention tape you're just in the state during date not kind of go in correlation together in the state of Arkansas. Yes Sir they typically do that's how I live thank you board. Our members just another guy Center Caldwell then Senator Hickey I've got a couple questions and if nobody else lights up questions we do have members of the audience one speak against one speak for although we don't So anyway just heads up Senator Caldwell. The European including signed statement of fact that the universe of Arkansas has never been given the the formula to test in the state of Arkansas. That is my understanding Sir and the fact the the data that was presented to to the plant board's actually tested in Arizona that has a totally different environment atmosphere is what we have in here in Arkansas. I think that is correct as well Sir okay thank you. Senator Hickey. I just wanna make sure so we may third is when it when you all whenever you all met and and actually voted on this as far as the plant board as far as our farmers are concerned. They had no idea what was going to be done on the may third date I would assume so was there any planning that this would affect because I would assume as far as the seed purchases the farmers were already were already planning for the may twenty fifth date as far as preparing the ground they were already. Using the may twenty fifth date so is there anything within this as far as planning I understand that someone might say well as far as maintenance or whatever it would help us if it if it went out further but as far as planning was or any is there anything I'm missing with that. see purchases ground preparation things of that nature I have I don't think there's anything you're missing the the additional comments that the board heard is that just the inability to use it that second time certainly affects the yield and so you get into economic damage there as well. But there's no but that book but under the rule that we're currently under the may twenty fifth farmers would have been preparing for that the attribute of it anyway would that be correct correct thank you Sir. Okay let me ask you a few questions I'm looking at the timeline and December twentieth at the regular board meeting board considers different proposals for extending use of I can't vote for the twenty twenty one growing season but motions to change the rule failed to receive enough votes and then early twenty twenty one. Reports surfaced of pigweed has developed resistance other forms of herbicides what. What what prompted or who prompted the request for those reports are explained the process whereby these reports also became a factor after the board already decided in December that you're going to stick with what you got and the reports we're talking about we're news articles and it came out that quoted university of Arkansas a scientist indicating that pigweed was now developing some resistance to the others other herbicides so the board was just aware of that and when it came time for their their March meeting where they were petition for a they received a petition for rulemaking that was one of the things that they took into consideration that they really had not considered at their December meeting. Does anybody on the plant board verify. That report because was that a sole source report strictly from the University of Arkansas that drove bring the discussion back up after the decision already been made in December I don't think all of the articles the that were published were a from the university of Arkansas okay and then who requested the board to revisit a change of the decision that was made in December was a board member or member of the public what drove the conversation who drove the conversation a member of the public at a crop consultant filed with the board a petition for rule making and that's why you all came back in March was because it was a regular I'm I'm sorry no it was a regularly scheduled board meeting but we had the petition had been filed just a of couple weeks before the board meeting so that was something that they placed on the agenda at the regularly scheduled board meeting right because had it not been for that petition with the board have stuck with the decision that was in December at the board could always initiate rule making on their own and so I I don't know what the board would have done all right and in that. In that March meeting the petition that was presented didn't cite those studies that are referenced on this time sheet do you know it it it did cite the fact the of the fact that Pigweed has shown some resistance to the other herbicides okay. Litigation in other states that are using the federal level because if I understood which said while ago there's you less about three or four states. Like Arkansas that have a modified date schedule that berries from the federal level otherwise all forty six other states are using the federal level is that correct. I think you can't documents only approved for use and thirty something state's been in all the other states where it's approved those are are just the few that we know of that do something other than the federal label and there may be others but those are the ones we know and you know anything about the litigation in those states that are using the federal level as far as you know claims against crop damage by neighbors that art using the doc Campbell product I'm not aware right Senator Hill. But what you just said you said eight eight crop consultant a petition or you're saying a single crop consultant was able to petition the board and get them to go along with this only one out of all the crop consultants in the State of Arkansas that we have. Under the administrative procedure act any person can file a petition now I will say that there were other crop consultants who did submit comments on the proposed rule in favor of the rule. Senate Sir it'll try again I think whether with any crop consultants not in favor of. I'm sure there were Senator but I don't have the comments in front of me so I couldn't say how many or how many were not but yes I'm sure there were thank you. The crop consultant that filed the petition represent one particular brand of seed. Do you know I have no knowledge Sir everything that he may or may not represent okay last question I got and then if no other members ask or light of Frank questions we're gonna go to the public do you know the percentage of beans sold in Arkansas right now as far as how many are di Kampus seeds or how many or other brands of seeds. That are a pre sold by and book by farmers I do not Sir I don't I would not be to give you an accurate estimate or an accurate number on that okay. All right Senator Stubblefield. Thank you so much have one last question to you Mr chairman is there anyway we can get. A report from the U. of a research on the dealing with the resistance of other herbicides. Okay great. Hello one second center. Wait can you send that I think the result was are like five or six reports that you sent real related to this yes okay so would you could you send that to staff the there are members okay so Mr Senator will get those reports are sent out of all the members and chairman let me clarify what I sent to staff for the news articles that are referred to that referred to of the University of Arkansas what reports what about the I'm sorry what about the actual. Six what about the actual report that was produced you have come to not have the. Okay so Senator Stubblefield I'll get out will last the chair's less staff to contact you of a for those reports let me satisfactory. Okay. All right I have no other members for questions right now so with that being said if you German would step to the side we have two members of the public who would like to speak. Of first of all signed up on the list is cal. May cast thing. And if you would Sir when you get to the microphone use one that's lit up red there already and just name and title and who you're with for the record please. Good afternoon I'm Kalama Castle and I'm here today representing freedom to farm it's an organization that up. Is focused on. Helping farmers maintain their way of farming and Being able to plant something without the chemical trespass or what's happening down the road or miles away damaging their crops and I appreciate the opportunity to speak today if before we proceed let me ask you this you're you're going to speak on the rule that the board has presented right we're not yes and NO Sejal United's and and I will I have three procedural issues to address I want to mention just or remind of the committee it sounds like you are fully aware of the concert with the pros and cons of the camera the but let me mention just a couple of significant points about why it's important to to our constituents and all that and why and how each of these important points are tied to the three. You had a lot of discussion on the day the volatility of that camera is temperature sensitive so the days in the temperatures the day's end of the year in the temperatures that were expected to experience are important as or those buffers the buffers provide some amount of protection in a risk scenario we're already going to have tied to temperature and so that is why each of the three procedural things that I'm going to mention are so important the first one is the I'll I'll go to your timeline if you would please I'd like to refer to that time runs been passed out. And. The first procedural item I'm going to mention is notice the notice for this rule making and if you will go down please to the March three date entry. And then you see right under their the may three date entry. There to significant entries that should be added for this rule making process this rule making process that we're talking about you should insert in there a March six entry which was the publication date of the action that was taken in December. So you had a March six notice. And then you had a March twenty fourth notice. March twenty fourth notice was for the action taken on March third. The comment period for the March six notice was still open when the March twenty fourth notice was filed. Those two notices contradict one another that's that's one substantive issue procedure but the first one of before we get into that contradiction would speak directly on the March twenty fourth notice the only thing that notice said was that the the rule was to talk about proposed changes to the account. It did not mention anything about the nature of those changes or who would be affected by the changes you heard all the discussion today about. Temperatures before the discussion about buffers none of those issues were mentioned in the March twenty fourth notice it just simply said changes to die can be used in the State of Arkansas. No contract contrast that to the March six notice. March sixth notice. Was about action taken in January where the. Right off date of may twenty fifth was going to remain the same west of the Mississippi River levee the buffers we're going to remain the same west of the Mississippi River and actually east of the Mississippi River I'm talking to the levy the levy and all that the specialty crops in those that grow susceptible crops. And those organic growers that were all west of the Mississippi River levee when they saw that notice on March six. They saw that their rules for twenty twenty one were still in effect just like they were last year. The March twenty fourth notice changed all of that without explaining any of that. March twenty fourth notice did not refer back to the March six notice for which the comment period was still open. So you've got to comments running at the same time for to rules that contradict one another and neither notice referred. And that is why we're saying the notice for this rule making that we're currently talking about the resulting rule that's in front of you today. Was grossly inadequate. And my constituency is is at danger each day father passed may twenty fifth we go. And so those notices were important as buffers were important in the cut off dates were important. Now item number two. Without getting too far into the details in the weeds on this issue but the administrative rules. Procedures those act that act requires that any change in the rules be backed up by science and other technical information. You all have already raised questions about compromise and the that rule that we're talking about right now this rule change is not supported by science it's a result of a compromise that you all have recognized already. It was blatantly talked about it being a compromise and all that compromise back and forth nobody trying to push this thing passed may twenty fifth I wanted to any date after may twenty fifth and pointed to a a temperature record that was part of the record and and explained. How we could live with a June thirtieth compromise when everybody's acknowledge the volatility of that Campbell really increases at eighty five degrees you heard that today just before I came up here. None of those compromised positions out beyond may twenty fifth pointed to any date or temperature or signs in arriving at a compromise date but every day past may twenty fifth put my clients my constituency in further danger. The third item is the emergency procedure declaration of the emergency declaration of the rule. what's notable here is that this was a combination emergency permanent rules. I don't read the mystery procedures act emergency rule making statute to allow for that combination there's a specific provision for the emergency rule making procedure is hasn't expressed limit of one hundred twenty days for rule it allows for one successive renewal of that one hundred twenty days so before you even get into the discussion about whether there's any substance to the emergency declaration. This this attempt to combine an emergency rule with a permanent rule is outside the statute and I don't think it's proper and for those technical reasons I would request that you all push this back to the plant board for reconsideration. Any members have any questions. Okay thank you for your testimony thank you of now we have to speak Perry Galloway. And if you would please Sir when you get to the Mike Name and. If you represent yourself as an individual or group would you identify that please. Thank you Mr chairman means peer Galloway from Woodruff County. I'm representing seventy eight percent Arkansas farmers who want this I don't know who I mean you're involving foreign pharmacist practice we're small number. I'm not attorney makes a farmer I'm not a scientist. Not a politician or procedural expert. And I would prepared to speak today but I know there's a lot of questions so I try to take notes. and the welcome any questions but I'm just gonna go down my list of notes that to or your asking questions to Mr Hodgen Mr Bray so that the growing season of Israel whether Jones is is if you don't know it rains all the time train earlier this week all of the state and the. CPOs rain again Sunday Of the young. The young man who The president of the petition was independent crop consultant who did not represent a seat coming by any means he or a representative to. His cell phone number other crop consultants someone asks how much seed what percent of seed was a as a document tolerance it's of sixty five seventy percent of the soybean seed. And I've been told over ninety percent cotton. They're one temperature mention because it wouldn't was not in his petition I don't believe so therefore it was not allowed. To be brought up. For consideration at the public comment I'm not real sure about that district three straights three states that word to have a tighter restrictions in federal labor Illinois Indiana and Minnesota. Concerns the sweet potatoes. Sir Caldwell. Of the panel member. That's on board the voted. and he's part of a compromise for the specially organised specialty and organic crops and so he is self voted for half mile buffer one miles kind of extreme I don't know the exact number if you take. A few acres here and put a one mile above rented knocks out thousands of acres so it's not really fair for somebody to. Put in especially organic crop and if and not go thousands of acres of others former property out of the ability to to treat their crop. The Journal compromise one from a one one about a half mile and a half mile to a quarter mile it was region propose it the specialty crop was an organic with a quarter mile so they did expand that up to half mile. The only complaints of five hundred forty complaints to two hundred seventeen about thirty two and seventeen were a. Reported by a Audubon society is and as a. Extremist group they just drive around the state look for problems and if they see something they alternate in. but only I believe one of theirs was actually the actual and I'm not sure. On that So someone is about of doc Hammer resistance there's no documented dock and resistance there is glue phosphonate resistance which is what came out. Late in twenty twenty which is has been possible alternative herbicide in a few cases. for issues farmers and on top of that this year there's extreme shortage we've got a we've got about fifty percent of supply. That we had last year. Science the University a couple years ago present a case it did what large field study things eighty acres. And the. The wait time to said he got the. The document to move four hundred forty feet so for all those young you don't know Courtemanche thirteen or twenty seventy three times what he said he got a grip half miles two thousand sixteen forty seventy. Six times in one mile protection U. verse research stations of five thousand two hundred eighty. And the Federal label allows for two hundred forty feet so with the state Arkansas's doing is given for almost double protection for non dot taller document archives The vote Monday was nine to five so it really winning close after a lot of discussion by two and half hours of the testimony discussion the the plant board a boat. Nine in favor and five against the. Pose rule. So that's about all I had that's been all the notes I took so I'd love to entertain any questions. All right first of all and and I'm just saying they have the committee projects being here today and go ahead represent Vaught thank you I'm of yes I can you tell me why the five were against. Did you do you really only to the private industry this program that the the Supreme Court today okay thank you. Let me ask you a question when the question came up while go with. Up until December. Everybody to my understanding was operating that the existing rule was going to continue as far as what we do everybody operated under last year and it says early twenty twenty one but that's kind of vague because they could be anywhere from January to end of February. Is is it one or one to the farmers booked their beans because it would seem like a lot of beans would have already been booked under the old rule and that was one thing it was mentioned in a comment about you know that's that's one reason farmers are waiting now because of the change rule can you speak as a farmer to that yes Sir and no pun intended to I don't get too deep in the woods weeds why we do what we do but there are some. Several discounts offered for. early purchasers they start about October and then the closer you get to planning season goes down there are some combinations of we control technologies that are gonna be available this year. That would also benefit from this so. Rules for building today that will take. It took a little bit of pressure off of of urgency of. Also booking your C. needs for for this year and again I don't get into any details I think it's small yellow here but a. There are some underlying reasons why. A farmer would not have to actually nail down his we control technology. in December I guess. So when one with a nail down there. Decision about how they're gonna handle their weeds. But not by win February or. You know as you get closer to the playing season of the the more or begin to commit of. You know there's a lot going on right now I mean I'm I'm I'm kind of connected us to the C. businesses will offer all technologies I don't mean to sound biased on any any other. technologies but The it's not uncommon to change moves all this weather we've been having you can change complete crops from cotton rice rice or corn to. Soybeans he was a lot of pressure with this weather right now okay you mind a couple questions for now has Senator Hickey. Yes Sir here thank you Sir just to kind of a follow up to representive all she's wanted issues a question about the five the voted against and you said to that that was due to the Supreme Court decision today the that they represent industry. Of I'm not familiar with any of any of these people but I guess was R. nine was R. nine that actually voted for it. Yes for nine oh five eight and I did. Only one only one. Of the five against was a was a pointed by the governor I guess you might be aware what better way to say that was one was not injury point so the nine that voted him right on that or the nine that voted forward are you telling me that none of those representing the industry industry. I mean you look at it you know I did not Senators nine industry representative on on the board so okay it's kind of a Hodge podge who voted for against but majority of the guests were definitely industry okay so I understood you're just talking about that yes but you could say the same thing for the four would that be correct. Yes yes Ross public thank you Sir. Senator Caldwell. Your rainy yesterday of let's follow back up on our own people to misunderstand what you're talking about on the per seat but to or most sea sales book in October November December for the first of the year and **** right now it wouldn't be a correct statement Senator I don't know if I would completely agree with that there is some that that does take place in the early fall and close good planning season will committed they are both that would be I just I want people to know that the farmers not wait to the last minute to to bind I'm not saying that they can't change some delivery and we plan or something like that but but in in reality the the the bookings or or take place back in the fall thank you. Senator Hill. Yeah I want to go along right with the dental center call is saying aye I'm pretty familiar forming myself I do know that you prepay you booking everything in December everyone knows reasons for tax purposes so everyone has a pretty good idea what they're what they're looking at an acres of change feel to change except for and so I I do do you agree and disagree with you on that when the people to have a pretty good idea what they're going to especially for bond money they have to pretty much lay everything out to their to their banker up then back to one other thing that you mentioned while ago you said it was one of the the. Five bodies to was the governor's point is that correct. Yes Sir I I'm stating that is correct a wrong but I I think it was two of my thing under the gun in the State of one yeah I think it's too in Bruce offered and Matthew marsh I'm not mistaken. I know man to be one of our okay thank you. And I'm I would like to swim German. You good. Yes now for road. Well I will say this Bruce offered what even at the the public comment part he showed up basically just for limited discussion in the vote so he didn't hear the the act our actual argument for against the just showed up with a no vote. Okay any other questions for members. All right thank you very much thank you here today thank you I co chair would like to get of Mister hajj you Mr Bray back to the table for questions please. And then members no other questions we've gone through the public comment we had everybody here unless anybody else wants to call somebody else of from. C. west out there no other members wanna call anybody up we're at a point of decision. She would like to ask you as you heard the three points technicality that were mentioned awhile ago by cal like to hear your response because they're on the time line two dates left off and would like to hear your reaction your response to the comments made please. Thank you yes if I can Mr McCaslin referred to a previous rule amendment that the board had voted to which simply would provide for a late season Permit late season application permit for lands lying east of the Mississippi River that's one. Change two of the rule that the board initiated in December so we follow the administrative procedure act we put out the notice for that. In the in in March the board then decided to take a more comprehensive look at the rule so we put out the notice for that they're two separate. Thanks really out of the over five hundred comments that we received not one single person said they were confused and didn't understand what was going on. as far as the sufficiency of the notice itself the administrative procedure act says that you publish the terms or substance of your intended action for a description of the action and of course we always follow guidance from the attorney general's office and the AG's office training materials when it says what you publish it says you publish the terms or substance of the rule because even though the statute says of your intended action what is your intended action is to adopt a rule so that's what we did when Mr McCaslin says we didn't publish that that's totally incorrect our notice included a link to an exact marked up copy of the rule and so you could pull it up and you could see every single change that was going to be may. Now it is a little bit hard for me to imagine how that's not sufficient when considering in nineteen sixty seven when the administrative procedure act was adopted the only way people had notice was to read that tiny little fine print on the back page of the newspaper so to say that the notice that we can provide that will allow people to pull it up on their cell phones anywhere they are or their computers any where they are to say that that is less informative than the notices of the sixties and seventies is a little bit of a stretch to me. After you printed that. And you made that out is that when you got. The public comments back that was referenced while ago or was that the first time. That it was the the three six publications when did the public comments come in. That have been sent to us if you we should between then and April. Twenty. Because after the cut already a recurrence racks of cut off date for comments was April twenty second and those all came in between the the twenty fourth and April second all the comment you got April twenty second yes. Right now that's that's all the written comments that the public comments were at that the of the. Meeting earlier this week okay. All right any questions member. Okay thank. Any other members want to hear anything from anybody else Board wise Senator Hill. Here is there anyone from the university here and I from the university of Arkansas. No Sir okay thank you advocate their opinion. The. All right members were down to the point we've heard the testimony we've had all questions asked at this point the chair would await what the committee would like to do. Circleville thank you Mr. I would make a motion that we do not accept this rule and I would want to. Call for a roll call vote by the chamber. All right I want to recognize Jessica for comment okay just for clarification today these would be recommendations to executive subcommittee so we can either and the member can have a motion to recommend that executive subcommittee not review and approve the role and or I move to recommend that they do review and approve the roll is it my understanding that you're moving. Our executive to not. Go ahead Sir. Women are thank thank you appreciate the motion I would recommend I make a motion that we recommend to the executive committee of not to approve this rule okay and then one other clarification because executive subcommittee has a standard for not review and approval and that would be if it's inconsistent with federal or state law our country to Legislative intent we would need a reason in your motion to recommend to executives not review and approve the role and that would be either that is inconsistent with federal or state law or it's contrary to legislative intent. Senate call will you wanna qualify your motion please based on what Jessica shared if you're thank you Mr chairman I appreciate your patience of I'll amend my motion to say that that to this rule does not meet Legislative intent. It's contrary to legislative intent. Okay so the motion is to recommend that executive subcommittee not review and approve the role because the role is contrary to legislative intent correction that is correct this promotion. Second. Got a motion by Senator Caldwell second by. Senator hill of we're gonna have discussion but to make sure everybody heard because there's little chatter in the background go ahead and restate the motion if you would just go and then I'm all recognized my co chair and then we're gonna go representative gray. The motion on the floor is to recommend to executive subcommittee to not review and approve the rule because it is and can. Represented the thank you I'm I'd like to have had some information on how it's how that. Rule. Is the against our legislative intent I don't really understand how what that what we're doing here all right Senator call will you wanna answer the question. All right Senator Hickey will respond Senator Hickey yes the base is the basis of that would be is that we passed a bill during this the most recent session that would restructure this going to restructure this board because of the industry people that are their own it of course that thing we're not going to affect until ninety days however Census legislature since that has passed the Senate has passed the house I assume the governor did sign that either he signed it or allowed it to to go in you know pass the five days you have to say that that is this bodies intent that alone coupled with what we've heard from the Supreme Court today with their ruling although it may not be in effect I believe that that would be the basis for that so I I would agree with you that the legislative intent is the make up of the plant board but I don't understand how this rule goes against any legislative intent can you help me understand that yes Sir because as far as this rule that was done on may third it would be made up it would be made up of those members that we don't as far as Legislative intent that we don't think they should be there and again that coupled with the US Supreme Court ruling today I think that's enough that to this rule does not need to be approved. Thank you. Any other discussion to the motion represent Dotson. Thank you Mr chair I guess. I heard what Senator just said but. We're still operating under the current law not one that was passed in the even though it changes the board make up it doesn't change the authority of the current board has to make this rule so I guess as far as whether or not this rule is properly done it doesn't violate state or federal law and they have the authority to to make this rule so I I can't see how it violates Legislative intent I can't support the motion at the moment thank you all right. Any other discussion to the motion. All right well as just one more time sure bridge clear and then we're gonna take vote juster would you restate the motion please. Sure the motion is to recommend to executive subcommittee to not review and approve the rule because the rule is inconsistent with Legislative intent so if you do not want executive subcommittee to review and approve the role you would vote yes if you do want it reviewed approved you would vote now. Ray understand anybody have any questions. For the motion to represent Great. Right to represent Great thank you just wanna make sure we did the division is that correct I'm sorry I have not had that ask for yet I thought senator a Caldwell as. I that in your motion. That is not right I will not let me take that let me take that motion out I need C. three hands. Okay have a I have a motion. State your state your motion represent gray so it can be heard on the Mike please wrote a motion roll call by division okay roll call by the Division we have three hands I have three hands. All right going to start on the House in first. No listen up so she can hear please thank you. Representative Lane Jean. Representative Reginald Murdock. Representa Reginald Murdock. Going to first alternate representative Steve Hollowell. Representative Steve Hollowell. Going to second alternate representative Mark McElroy. Representative Matthew Shepherd. Representative Jon Eubanks. Representative Jon Eubanks. Representative Bruce Cozart. Representative Bruce Cozart. Moving to first alternate representative Marcus Richmond. Representative Marcus Richmond. Committee to second alternate representative Mike Holcomb. Representative Mike Holcomb. Representative Michelle gray. Representative Dan Vaught. Representative Jeff Wardlaw. Representative jim Dotson. R. J. hold on one second first please. All right members that motion failed. No other. Yeah no other motions or anything we're done any other motions. OR Journ.