ALC-Highway Commission Review and Advisory Subcommittee

Two are I would Commission over sat in an advisory committee Rubric representative right near you anything you wanna say welcome everyone all right thank you we're here to talk about the. I forty Mississippi River Hernando desoto bridge and that is our one topic is came up last week and and it is I margin C. and and this is are we to meet and had planned on had and having a meeting but I appreciate the department for for its willingness to it to give us an update and you have members chest Act answer and ask questions you guys dance you're. And if you would just however you want Director tutor and whoever you want to come up and and Just state your name and you're welcome to proceed. I think everybody's got a packet. If you. Good morning everyone I'm Laurie tutor the Director of the Arkansas department of transportation and with me today I have my direct deputy director and chief engineer rex finds. I'm gonna talk about kind of the what has happened since about this time last week it's been one week we were in a meeting talking about and some type of of work from home policy. And rex in some mother started getting phone calls. And so a lot's happened in a week. So today I'm glad to have this opportunity to speak to everyone and let you know where we're at. And and then offered it answer any questions we can at this point hopefully we can answer all right have a great team of engineers behind me that if we can answer hopefully they can so with that. I'll get started. So as I said a week ago on Tuesday the I. forty bridge was closed to traffic. A significant fracture in a steel beam that is crucial to the structural integrity of the I. forty Mississippi River bridge between West Memphis in Memphis was discovered. And this bridges also known as the Hernando desoto bridge. This is the construction of this bridge began in the late nineteen sixties and it was opened to traffic in nineteen seventy three the bridge has a the bridge had a comprehensive seismic retrofit that was completed in twenty eleven however the damage member was not and address because it's not vulnerable to a seismic event. This bridge carries forty one thousand vehicles per day of that thirty percent or commercial motor vehicles it's a vital link between east and west of the Mississippi River and of course the Mississippi river as a water way it's very important Commerce. the fracture was discovered by an Arkansas department of transportation consultant bridge inspecting bridges fiction team that was under contract perform a scheduled inspection of the bridge Michael Baker international is our consultant. Emergency services were immediately notified in the Memphis police department was dispatched the bridge was closed to vehicular traffic in the river was closed to barge traffic as a safety precaution. Arkansas and Tennessee department of transportation began immediate coordination to evaluate the severity of the issue. The I. forty bridge agreement between Arkansas and Tennessee is that are dot is responsible for routine and special bridge inspections and T. dot is responsible for maintenance and repairs our state share the cost equally. R. dot in T. dot called in nationally known engineering experts in bridge forensics to help our forces perform a dies diagnostic evaluation and that brings us to today. A picture from a drone video showing that the fracture was visible in twin in twenty nineteen was circulating through social media. When we saw that we weren't sure if it was a doctored photo or what so we verified and we found that the photo was indeed authentic and we found that out on Friday last Friday may fourteenth. I've included a picture of that I've included a picture of that twenty nineteen photo in your in your hand out everyone should have a hand out with a lot of pictures was about five pictures and send the information. This picture how you're able to verify it is Michael Baker had a five hour drone video of the cables in the rods in the trick of the trade as part of the bridge there was a five hour drone video shot by Michael Baker in twenty nineteen and we went through that video and found in the that it that crack was visible on the beam. so let me tell you a little bit about our bridge inspection program. But it's based on nationally accepted bridge inspection standards are not has twenty seven bridge inspection teams across the state in addition to hiring and managing consultant teams to supplement our staff. In twenty twenty we perform ten thousand three hundred and eighty four inspections on state highways county roads and city streets. Now the I. forty bridge is inspected annually in three phases. There's an underwater inspection of the foundation or the peers that's done by consulting. They dive into the Mississippi River and then make sure everything is all right underneath the water. Our daughter is responsible for inspecting the bridge deck in being structure the the party to drive on that's our responsibility that's what we do internally. And then we have a consultant that does inspection of the arches and you can see those pictures in your in your hand out. So it's a three part inspection. this done annually on this bridge. For my investigation we have determined that the same are dot employee who conducted the inspection on the deck in beams in both twenty nineteen and twenty twenty failed to carry out his responsibilities correctly. This is unacceptable and this employee has been terminated as of yesterday. May seventeenth. We're in the process of referring this matter to the proper federal authorities for their determination if further investigation criminal or otherwise is warranted. And we are continuing our investigation going up the chain of command to find out if there were any other employees that were negligent in their duties. However this is not about the failure of one or more employees this is about the failure in the inspection process that allowed this to happen. Now I want to take this opportunity to let you know Michael Baker international had nothing to do with this failure in the process their job was to look at the if the trusses the everything about the main bridge. And died we are very very very thankful for their quick action when they saw the crack that day on may eleventh the the fracture they immediately notified as and shut down the bridge so we're very thankful to them but they are in no way responsible for this for this fracture not being caught in twenty nineteen or before. Our investigation not only reveal the negligence of an employee. But as I said it revealed the process failure that is the responsibility of our dot. We should have a discovered this fracture in twenty nineteen and we're taking steps to hold those responsible for not doing their jobs accountable but more importantly more importantly to correct the flaws in our process that allowed it to go unnoticed. It's important to note that we follow the federal highway administration's national bridge inspection standards for regulations. And in fact we exceed those standards in some areas however this incident highlighted a flaw. And that were in the process is we set up to meet those federal standards so next step for next steps the Federal Highway Administration will be conducting a comprehensive assessment of our dots bridge inspection program. The assessment will ensure the appropriate policies programs and people are in place to meet this responsibility we welcome this assessment as we move forward to make sure this never happens again. We have already started reviewing our processes and we are taking action now. We are ready we are already adding additional checks and balances along with redundancy we recently purchased a drone to review our bridges this will be in addition to hands on inspections using the snooper we have to perform hands on inspection we have the equipment to do so but the drone video allowed extra eyes to be on those members of the on the bridge structure and will help but that redundancy in place. I've included a picture of a sniper in your hand out. We have requested that Tennessee D. O. T. perform a drone review of the I. fifty five bridge over the Mississippi River to give confidence to the public that it has been done correctly this is occurring right now. All fracture critical bridges inspections and the I. forty bridge is a fractional fracture critical bridge all fracture critical bridge inspections that were performed by the terminated employee will be reinspected beginning immediately. No excuses. No excuses we understand that in order to regain the public trust and confidence we will need to be transparent income. And accountable and we're committed to doing so. We will correct this problem and we will become better for it. Again we are so grateful that it was discovered by Michael Baker and we are so grateful that a light was cast on this process failure before anything catastrophic cap. We are also very grateful for the partnership in support of T. dot in the Federal Highway Administration. This last week it's been difficult. But everyone has come together and it's been it's really been quick how it's all falling into place. But I ask that you to remember one thing we did not cause this failure R. dot did not cause the failure we missed identifying it but we didn't because the fracture in that beam so moving forward I mean we're going to take care of that process failure but our main focus needs to be on keeping traffic flowing well during while the bridge is closed. We need to focus on repairing the bridge correctly so it's safe it's done the right way and everyone safe going over the bridge. And we need to figure out what caused the failure so that we can prevent it from happening on other bridges or this bridge in the future so there's a lot ahead of us this is been unfortunate. But it's also being fortunate in that it just highlighted a need that we had that we didn't recognize until now so with that. Not Asterix funds a to give you an update on the plan of action going forward this week a lot has happened just in the last twenty four hours so I'll turn it over to read. Thank you senator. As of nine AM Friday morning U. S. Coast Guard did release barge traffic based on the initial assessment that the bridge was stable holding its own weight. Last week immediately after this was discovered a structure team was formed including Tennessee department transportation Arkansas department of transportation the Federal Highway Administration Michael Baker international and HNTB. both mark Baker national nation to be are nationally known well respected firms with expertise in this type of issue. Each member of this team is committed to working diligently to get this bridge back open to the traffic is the earliest possible time while ensuring the safety. They have worked continuously to develop a design that would provide additional stability to the fracture member and bridge they work through the weekend and are continuing to refine the final design before we as we move forward they're not sitting waiting there working continuously on that. Data provided of both pool design contractors request for qualifications last Friday. And with the requirement that they provide those request for qualifications their proposals by ten o'clock yesterday morning those were received and reviewed by Tennessee. And these were based on their experience their expertise and their availability to quickly mobilize to the job. yesterday afternoon Tennessee department transportation chose Kiewit construction to perform this work and Q. we're mobilized immediately and they began yesterday afternoon working with the design team to move forward they started they were I sit in on a meeting yesterday afternoon and and they were fully engaged and We're bouncing ideas off each other it was it was an impressive. The repair will be a two phase repair of the first phase will be adding structural plating on either side or around the fractured member to stiffen it and to strengthen it keep continuing our propagation of the tire but also to stabilize it so that we can do the permit repair as part of the goal Okay will we we a expect and they have told us they will be erecting platforms this week to begin the work. The structural plate has been sent the designs been sent to the manufacture and should be on site by Thursday so we're moving quickly on this and we expect phase one to be complete by the end of this week so that should stabilize the structure phase two will be is still being refined there were different ideas me pass around one the initialized is is adding high steel high strength steel rods. Disband the structure to reestablish the strength and then to remove the weakened part of the member and replace it at a later date. that we expect to the timeline right now that is several months we we're not sure yet that will be refined as they refine the process. And then after those repairs have been made and we will continue to look at the bridge set for any long term issues related to the regional failure that we should be accounted for. That's all I have. Thank. Thank you rex the. That's a twenty four by thirty six that being that failed or at. Approximately yes yes so so this play to be thirty six by Thirty six feet longer service is proximate thirty feet long yes so. I mean that's that's the size of the of this thing that you see on the picture so that I mean it's it's a committee so will traffic be able to flow across that once that plate is there until the permanent face to the permit no Sir. So that's just for stable decision yes this is just a stabilizing so that we can do the repairs okay. We have a quite a few in the Q. referred senate Senator Garner. Yeah there you go thank you so let's go back to its employees you just said they were negligent about explain that in more detail because obviously for two years we have video evidence that this crack existed and from the way you explain that they do a physical inspection with the snooper actually going down the picture you have given us shows to people on the actual bridge I mentioned to an official a actual visual inspection of the bridge. How this employee miss that was it negligent as in Beijing reported they not do the job by showing up to the people on the ground C. it was covered up explain in detail how that employee acting nickel dizzy to not see this crack in a bridge. Okay thank you a great question. Nearly okay To just raise your question differently enough or if I'm incorrect please correct me the House see negligent in his duties and the the Committee we use a slow probably that the videos in that the way that equipment works for that particular part of the beam is is they would drop from the date down to the bean. And. He the. Process is to extend that snooper along the bank so that he can be within arm's reach any aspect to be within our reach of any portion of the bridge after inspecting then they would change it around go the other direction so the length of that boom they should be able to they are to get within arm's reach of every section that are looking at. What this employee was doing is he was dropping to that point. And if you can make yourself standing against a wall. And look in both directions you can see parts of the wall but not all the law clearly he was dropping to that point and then looking letter I believe is not extending beyond the point of his drop down so he wasn't he was not seen the the entire structure as he was instructed to so this important. Is the actual person who is responsible for being the snooper visually inspecting the beam failed to go up and down to being so he could actually see the crack and then reported to or dot that he had inspected it and that it meant no critical failures that's correct okay I have a problem separate issue second issue so on the Evaine you don't know the exact calls this crack yet is that correct. I don't know that the exact cause is not known but it we we believe it's fatigue. And the fire was at the at weld. So that that's an important distinction because I think what we seen in the conversation since this has been discovered is this is a funding infrastructure issue when it appears to me that is a failure to actually do the job or find the crack and repaired and a good time what I'm nervous about is the people of Arkansas I've given an eight generous amount of money to or dot both through the half cent sales tax and also to a gasoline diesel tax increase in the discussion should be that there wasn't funding actually repair this that it was more of failure to find it and that that is the calls up big some nervous moving for that we don't just click include a larger federal infrastructure package for more money from the State of Arkansas that this is more about a failure on or not to do that because its employees negligence in that case. F. I understand you right that if we get caught it back in twenty nineteen. At it would have cost as much sure it wouldn't be in the same. Is that what you're saying I don't know I guess what I'm saying is the discussion seems to be about now we need more funding for infrastructure when it appears to me in this case is less about funding for infrastructure more about doing routine maintenance and catching a problem for exist this is the thought is if your found this you don't have the money to fix that correct we'll okay yes but that okay the correct it's occurring at the fracture would have taken the same thing to fix it back in twenty nineteen it is today. And yes it's going to cost about the same but it it hasn't got anything to do I guess the this is just a marker chasm that are are at elderly infrastructure that is starting to fail in certain ways so I don't I don't I don't think they're it has anything to do the money that Washington's going to infuse into our infrastructure doesn't have anything to do with lack of of I met a is it maintenance is you're saying if we have maintained that bridge better we wouldn't have this problem today. But anyway I guess what I wanted to say is I ask this very question would would have been the same remedy would have been the same fix back in twenty nineteen that we're facing right now we had seen it back in twenty nineteen would anything have changed and I was told no it would have been the same thing it would cost the same amount of money so that fracture didn't really have anything to do with anything we could have done to prevent it it just it just started happening it would have been fixed thank you. With. Senator rast we have a quite a few folks in the queue and and I don't have names up here so I'm just gonna have to go by the numbers show. Senator rescue go ahead thank you Mr Reading news articles and and basically that's what I heard was what I read in the paper about the possible the temporary stabilization fixing first time I have heard that it to a possible weld joint I don't think I'm of her date anywhere. Is there something you can tell us that there you know we've we've all seen Disasters were a barges hit a a bridge in collapse to read the one up in what Minnesota OR whatever. Are there five years like this that. I'm not saying they're common but players like this that can be pointed to And I guess going back to Senator garner's question yeah we passed to the I'm a maintenance of road tax in one part of that was to be able to check our bridges as we're now that's starting to come into effect and will be able to do that better but other than a physical inspection this really not a way that you could have gotten that because what I'll the other part I read is the the part that I believe that the Baker group we're doing when they were doing a different part of the bridge it was like a one second clip that caught that twenty nineteen fracture that would have told us a lot but how do you see that I remember somebody and are not when a stone to about a bad condition of roads he said you know I just did that I went through skyscraper something they were looking at roadies is no reason I remember that I looked at that road back several months ago was a deer jumped out in front of me and I saw the same thing if you are looking for something in a one second clip it would be hard to do. In in saying that I'm I guess what I'm asking in that. If this is a well joint not just break. What what how do you assess well joints and the rest of that bridge other than me visual inspection I'm sure is going to be. NO primary now but also you know the possibility of of a future fractures there's really nothing you can do other than regular inspections that correct. That's exactly right I mean we're gonna be that reason we watch like a hawk for that same thing happens prosecute the elsewhere and that'll be part of the forensics once they remove that portion it's fracture they're going to do all kinds of testing and things like that to find out what exactly happened right there in his or other weak spots on the bridge that possibly could do the same thing and we can go in there and reinforce those other spots if you will in anticipation that it could happen but that's all to be determined you know but until that section removed you you really don't know if that is a world. Well you detail that car. We we do it is a well joint but we're not positive that's where the failure. Initiated. We think it is but we're not where do we get this section cut out of this we won't know that creature all right thank you Mr. Senator Stubblefield what number are you. Okay. Thank you Mr Laurie. in regard to the economic loss that we are encouraged being incurred. do you know how much that is and and also what what's it costing to re route this all this traffic to. Eighty five. The bridge north and one down south the only number that I know is count comes from the Arkansas trucking association and they've reported two point four million dollars per day. for the trucking industry but other than that I don't have right now any kind of other estimated cost of what this is to the motoring public and Rick Steves have you heard anything so the trucking industry will absorb all these calls. Themselves correct yes it's just you know the detour of is about a hundred and fifty miles so should should the fifty five bridge which is. I understand correctly juniper ended much older than the average it is much older than it's being inspected currently yes where should I find a something wrong with it. What we do is in. At well I will say that of course we understand that confidence in our inspections is low right now and we just got to inspecting that bridge and it was fine except for some pot holes on the date that we need to do for repair but because of what's happened we've S. T. dot to do a second review of that and make sure that everything's fine on that bridge and we have every we're hopeful I mean. I hope we don't have to address that question. It would be at. Devastating to the economy if that both bridges got closed for sure. So. I really don't know what else to say except that you know that that would be the very very worst case scenario aside from a bridge falling into the river. And we will hope and pray that that's not the case I doubt it would everyone would just have to deter there's only if there's only certain bridges across the Mississippi River it's it's limited you've got crothersville Helena West Helena so. Thank you Senator Stubblefield There's just I mean. As a matter of fact this. This is a. Is not the current directors fault this is not anybody who's on the commission's fault this is not anybody in this room small. That the this infrastructure situation is something that we've kicked can kick the can down the road to spend money on on on things that the. That don't involve. In our economy and and how we move stuff to market and it is time that we do that. And that bridge that. That bridge that everybody's having to go over is is older than a director is and the bridge that's that's in failure is is my age so that's the that's what we're dealing with and that's what you're gonna get that you're you're having to deal with and we're going to deal with as a nation United the next one in the queue is one oh six whoever one one oh six the a representative Cavenaugh. Thank you Mr chair. I guess I just have probably this question that everybody's asking. So we have one person that inspects the bridges we don't have redundancy built in in our inspection and there someone it follows behind them and the same person inspects the same bridge year after year after year. Yes ma'am as. This particular employee was the only one he was a he was is. He was a team leader. And that's part of our flow and our process that we're going to fix that we have that redundancy those checks and balances. So you're exactly right that's that's a big problem that we did not catch that he was not doing his job and that's what we have to address is it is the department and we will follow Mr. I guess that's and I understand you wasn't in your watch when this crack happened but. It was watch mark or not it was their responsibility to make sure that these bridges were inspected and inspected properly and I understand that is not true you didn't build it but our dots responsibility was the inspection. R. naught failed. In that duty and it's a big duty. And as you brought out it puts all the other inspections you do in question. Because if it can happen with one. And a critical infrastructure like this it can happen on minor ones which would be the dentist you know catastrophic for small communities if they lost bridge mmhm but the gentleman that did the I. forty inspection is he the same gentleman it did the I. fifty five inspection the bridge. He was nothing later on that he was a he was part of the team but he was not the primary on that. But he was the one that actually had was supposed to be looking for cracks just like he was supposed to be looking for cracks on app forty. I yes ma'am okay thank you is it is it the reverse reverse. We inspect the fifty five or reinspected forty and Tennessee inspects fifty five or or green we do we do all inspections on those bridges with Tennessee okay all right the next in the queue is one fourteen who is that. One fourteen. Thank you thank you Mr chairman Laurie. The old bridge that went over. Thank you was built in the nineteen forties but it was a shorter bridge than the one that they're using now I just wonder you know probably you didn't have earthquake Standards in place then in the I don't even know if you had it in nineteen seventy three but you know you're right there on the new madrick fault. Or you know all the shaking goes on all the time we're with the eleven or only of two but what I can only wonder is you got all this farm equipment and you're going from say of six line to a four line in your redirecting that traffic and that's going from Arkansas to Mississippi and vice versa that to say how is that affecting the overall picture was slowing things down can you tell us that. You will the last report I got is and I've been in I've been in contact several times over the last week with my counterpart in Tennessee. And the in which in talking to our staff that the traffic's flowing fairly well All Things Considered. As the last I heard that there. Have you heard anything else everything was flowing pretty good people are either deterring are there. They're it the fifty five bridges able to to take the extra load. Rexhepi got any additional information. And your question representative right okay. Next in the queue is one twelve who is that. Senator Chesterfield it is honest year thank you and thank you for being here. What are the next steps I know that we've had a break down in that we know now that we have to look it up processes and provide back up if you will to the individuals that we have in place to do this other thing to have someone follow up after them to make sure that we have it but where do we go from here I heard about the temporary fix the temporary fix will not allow us to travel the bridges that right that's correct If we're talking about actually repairing the bridge in getting it open to traffic I will I will and I'll defer to rex on that he will do beyond just walk me through the steps will have a temporary fix and then what happens next tell me a time line I'm sure the people of who travel forty would like to know is there a time line that we have in mind as a result of the contracts that we're letting our that we love to be yes ma'am we do we do expect the temporary fix to happen this week. Of the the final timeline has not been nailed down yet because the contractor is working with the design group on the final design. they are expecting it to be a few months as much as several months but they have promised to work twenty four hours a day seven days a week until the total repairs done so we're looking at rest your life. Or or possibly longer yes let mass saying that You know of course we've only been a week into this and we will as soon as we get information this is going to you know is probably the next couple weeks is going to change daily. And if you all want me to we'll just do a email. At you get a I've I've got a little email going to certain people have asked to be kept updated but I put everyone in this committee on that email so we just get that latest breaking news and obviously will be. Be glad to come in and come before you again just like this you know whenever it's reasonable but we will keep everyone up to date as this unfolds we should know more by the end of next maybe by the end of this week. this is moving really quick and Jeremy Tennessee's responsibility in this is to do what. To let the contract for this maintenance work they're they're responsible for any maintenance work on the bridge soon we are to pay for it I have to handle it so we're going to submit that cost yes ma'am all right thank you very much I know that this is a difficult time but I anticipate that John up to the tech thank you. Thank you senator Chesterfield next is one thirteen who's that all right Sir the representative like. Thank you Mr chairman a lot of my questions been answered I hope I don't repeat some of the questions of. But the the plate that was placed on to their phase one that you talked about which does not allow traffic on the bridge is that correct that's correct so what's the purpose of phase one. to stabilize the the existing though in a condition is Sanders is still relatively unstable to prevent it from being getting worse yes Sir so can you tell and maybe I missed the Cerner of I get late in early but can you tell the age of that crack I hear people say that's been there a long time but how to how do you know when the correct form. We've we've been able to confirm is early as of twenty nineteen that's correct was present that is ours we can confirm how do you confirm that we had drawn video footage from our consulting inspector. Yeah I guess it's some questions thank you. Next in the queue is one twenty nine who is that. One twenty nine. Go ahead. Senator age thank you Mr chair. You mentioned that. Thank you one known for a while with this is actually a weld failure or actual failure of the beam but when this was designed it's obviously to spread the weight out throughout the entire structure of something of this magnitude. Is there a concern in the mean time that during these last couple years that this is put extra stress than on others areas because obviously this being is not carrying its percentage of the way to the structure. Hi my understanding from the design experts is that the this bridge was designed in a manner that does not redistribute the low and that's what makes as fracture critical. Is it is carrying the majority the low okay so there's no concern that this is putting extra stress on other areas the bridge that would normally have that no Sir okay all right thank you thank you Mr. Next in the queue is one thirty. Representative ray. Thank you Mr Director tutor when approximately when did. Drone reviews of the Fernando desoto bridge began the drone inspections. Twenty nineteen twenty nineteen. Twenty nineteen I'm sorry. go Baker who is our consultant that inspected the arches I started using drone video footage to supplement their hands on inspection in twenty nineteen it's relatively new technology for this for this purpose. And in fact of the department is going to start doing the same thing as well using drone video we fought we purchased a drone so so whose responsibility is it to review that drone footage. That was part of Michael Baker's responsibility and as part of their inspection of the tres is but again Michael Baker has no responsibility in missing that it was like a one second little clip out of a five hour video that wasn't their responsibility to go through that and look for anything on the beam we were responsible for the beam so I don't want to in any way at. Make you think that Michael Baker is responsible for missing that crack it's our responsibility okay follow up Mr okay. But director to I know it's been mentioned a couple times you were not the director at the time that was that was Scott Bennett what was your title in twenty nineteen and what were your responsibilities in that role twenty nineteen I was the deputy director chief operating officer and I was second in command. So you know if. I guess I would be to blame for it being missed in twenty nineteen as well. You're correct. Thank you. Next in the queue is one twenty seven represent our Senator Hill. Thank you Mr chair. Lori this is been brought to our attention now and so what kind of re verification and we done the process that we're doing to go over other checks on other bridges or passes that this employee has is verified over the years and the second part of that is. The inspection that was done on highway on the highway fifty five bridge was that done by employees it said was not the same guy who were trained by the employee who was terminated. no Sir of the AQ read the first question I'm sorry okay our question is we all re verifying checks on other bridges and over passes that this employee who was terminated over the last year to the Commissioner we started that yet this morning and we should be able to complete every structure that he. Was team later on. Over the last year we'll have inspected by the middle of next month thank you I want to re verify one thing that the. Highway bridge on fifty five. In no way is associated with someone who trained the other employees are the employees who were working on interstate forty bridge is that correct that's correct this corn my have a bridge maintenance engineer yes okay thank you thank you. Next in the queue is one eleven who is one eleven. Senator Pitsch. German as an engineer I'm looking at the pictures putting pieces together and the twenty nineteen Picture Show several problems that may have been messed. I have we checked into the vertical to the clearly has damaged right above the crack if you have that picture I'd like you to look at that because to me if it is on a wealthy measure alluded to it's probably fatigue of heat when I was well the because the terrace and spread along well that's Burkle a right above that an approximately putting pictures together for feet roughly behind it is a vertical believe that about us. Inshallah picture scale certainly has a bang in it And saying on that. People ask questions. That. During his record okay so there's no structure there I'm sure but that I mean that would have been put in place with that large of a damage to it is and geographical closer. We. Police asking. If you if you would just come up and and State your name in your title. My kill on the state if the bridge maintenance engineer. Go ahead well. I guess my question if that is a drain pipe it's clearly taken damage that appears to be and I was trying to put it on the same vertical line I don't have enough data to do so between the two pictures right but in twenty nineteen it has some damage to it than that geographical location the second thing I saw that picture in would like you to address some question is about what I would appear AT left close to the other drain pipe at the top corner appears to be another crack or fissure in a plate and so my question is I know in steel factories give you steal there's often X. rays cross sectionals and do we have cross sectionals of this plate steel that was put in play because. If if again I go back to the crack on the right the crack in question that doesn't follow a straight well seeing it looks like it may be a distortion or care or it took damage based on the other and I don't know what your thoughts are on all left the we guess I still have questions where that just also and started cracking and just kept climbing right because of damage in the general area that I can see on other structures. Okay to address the drain pipe. Pull it close to your. To address the drain pipe we we went all over there thinking we were very concerned about that our sales what we did we checked all the diagonals diagonals or the main bracing this is just the pieces nothing point break what we believe is that that at some point during the seismic retrofit he was in the way of some of their work as they just knocked it out the way that's the only thing we can come up with because there's no the information or anything for any of the secondary members of the of the tiger of the trucks and looking at it you know the uneven members all coming to a point engineering one oh one yeah I don't see any defamation any of those other than the same beam to the left about a fee which made me wonder if something may have yet that joint. Top top or something area there are some what we call scuff marks on the bottom and we. This is strictly my group I mean it's not been confirmed there are marks that look like that possibly have been scrapped on the bottom of. Bye bye bye a large crane or something so we can't say that we all we say is this is what it looks like we have no evidence of that but there are some marks on the bottom that we cannot account for and as far as the mark on the left it looks like a crack we did get a call on that so Michael Baker still on site we called them and they basically said a grown on top of it it's a paint run it's a lead paint run it's just a bad paint peace it looks like a crack but we can we were basically went right on top of it. Next the. If you. Thanks any queues Senator Irvin. Hi thank you and so just quickly I mean a little bit along those those issues when it's a clean I share like that is I mean that are do you have consultants that are coming in inspecting that are with perhaps larger state's department of transportation that deal with these different issues that are coming in looking at an and inspection and. I mean the fact that it's a clean share to me says something other than just a broken wells but I'm I'm curious if you have other type other inspectors that come in that deal with you know larger bridges like the state of Florida for instance are you planning to have any outside expertise to come in and to assist with this situation but also just to kind of double track or inspections of our current infrastructure that's my first question. yes ma'am thank you thank the question we do have experts in this field are on site working with the design team and and they were in the forensics will be performed by the Federal Highway Administration so there are many experts that have that have been brought in to review this. This particular instance and they will also review the remaining reminder the structure all right second question are you going to bring in any consulting and to review your internal processes for investigations are you gonna be bringing in consultants to help you with improving your processes or how how are we to or is not going to just be internal with the yourselves or you bring an extra and no ma'am we are going to bring in outside eyes we've already got Federal Highway Administration is going to do a thorough review of our processes. And I've already on rex and I have discussed that possibly bring in consultants as well I would like to see what federal highway says they they do these audits are they calling reviews all over the nation in compare our program with others and so they'll give us some great insight and what we need to do to change and then we might have to supplement that with the consultant we're still at like I said this we're just we just discovered this flaw in our processes last Friday we're still trying to figure out what we're going to do moving forward we but we do know for sure federal highways coming in we do know for sure we're going to start adding redundancy with the drones we do know for sure that we're going to figure out where the flaw or where the failure occurred if it you know if it's isolated fits it's system wide we're we're we still have a lot to figure out and we're going to figure that out we'll keep everyone here I'm form down as we move forward into our review process in figuring out but at this moment right now like I said we're we understand that that your confidence and trust in us is is I understand I mean it to this point we just need answers so that we understand systematically I mean I drove over the bridge Sunday night and it got closed I think what twenty four hours later so the employee are you limiting weight traffic on I. fifty five bridge no ma'am you're not are you concerned that we perhaps might need to limit weight traffic for that bridge and there any are there any steps to look to see because that would be catastrophic if that bridge fails and then absolutely and that's why we asked Tennessee DOT to DO a drone review of the bridge of all the members to verify if it's if it's they're doing it right now it should be done by. You know by the end of the day tomorrow I don't know but it's being done as we speak the employee that called in the nine one one call that shut the bridge down was that a physical inspection. That was our okay that happen Michael Baker our consultant he was there they were there on site doing anything inspection of the arches okay they just happened to see the crack in reported and we immediately shut it down and so they saw that with a person on site assets audit yes in called S. and called nine one one it was the consultant that that saw it and said oh my goodness are you able to submit to us like in the past since twenty nineteen how many actual physical inspections occurred on that bridge yes ma'am we sure can okay and then also planning for you know what you find I'm assuming Mr chair that you would send that to us as well as far as just a follow up of your inspections of course and and particularly I fifty five of course yes we thank you for that thanks for the questions. All right of center mark Johnson you were in the queue and I pushed your button wrong last time so we're going to use thank you Mr chairman a director to thank you for coming here in your candor and I want to add your burden but I do have a couple questions that we need to look at per account long term policy. Of. One of your managers being older is to talk to a lot of people in your member a lot of things you are and one of your predecessors Mr gray once told me that interstate forty between little rock and Memphis was designed with the assumption that twenty percent of the traffic would be trucks and eighty percent would be cars any bites ever driven it through the years knows that that's not exactly true and he even told me that this was back when he was director so would have been in the early eighties that they did a survey at I. forty and highway one for city and it was eighty one percent trucks and nineteen percent cars so it was just the opposite of that in the added that the part of this was because that when the Rock Island railroad went bankrupt that the. Right of way reverted to the ownership of the state of Arkansas instead of bringing in another railroad to assume that asset governor Clinton decided to tear up the tracks and give every little town along the the right of way that land to they could have a little park in the middle of town and I'm not against parks please don't think I am but about the same time was when. Fed ex became our thank you major major shipping entity both of course we know about the air but subsequently trucking and I guess Memphis is probably the biggest intermodal port in the nation that's not on the coast and and I see this and I'm wondering did we we meaning Tennessee Arkansas Federal Highway Administration did we build a bridge based on those lesser weight and number Consumptions that turned out to be not exactly true due to increased traffic from closing of a major railroad and the fact that but partially because the fed ex that tennis is that meant this became a major trucking hub with a whole lot more than just your usual numbers of traffic instead of most of that being cars and people going to Graceland they're eighty thousand pound trucks in very high numbers going over that bridge could that have been a contributing factor and if so is this sort of the weak point that we're seeing from this additional gross amount of weight and the amount of traffic at. Yes Sir our interstate system was not designed to the standards that they're now having to Provide service for. And the yes the heavier vehicles are. You know they they do do damage to our infrastructure now. And and because of those situations where that things are so different now than they were in nineteen sixty. In our infrastructure is having to take care of that but there is there they weren't really designed to take care of that it's an issue all over the country. But an it doesn't happen overnight it happens over time and we'll just start seeing you know we're just going to have to be really really careful going forward that we. Hey you. We keep up with the date you know that xcelerated damage on the road because of the additional weight an additional traffic on the roads and it's just it's just as we move forward will just have to be. Quick follow up Mr chairman of Director tutor at I'm glad you you hate second festive that but acknowledged what is a fact but when we go over a. Rhoda another state highway that you know it's rough for has a lot of bumps and a DRG around at that's an annoyance but it's not life threatening usually and these bridges the or or life threatening do we need to maybe change some priorities as far as is our maintenance situation to you know what we all want perfectly smooth roads everywhere across the state we know that you know this one is is a potentially life threatening thing do we need to re evaluate that whole Timetable of the maintenance just to kind of emphasize where the danger points might be. Absolutely and it's not that there's ever a good time to face something like this it just happens to be right before we adopt our budget for July first twenty twenty one. So Mike in his group are working with rex to come up with any anything you need. Anything you need to make this a better program. I want to know right now and we'll put that into the budget now mean money coming from other places obviously there's a finite amount of money. But we're definitely going to invest in this to make this a better program in to take care of our bridges and to make sure they're safe for all the all public art everyone commercial motor vehicles as well as being you know passenger vehicles it's very very important and we understand. The gravity of this cell. Thank you your well. What one oh six who is that. Senate representative Cavenaugh. Thank you Mr chair going back to what Senator Pitsch was asking about with the drainage if you look at the two thousand nineteen photo it shows a definite. Dent and rust spot and when you look in the twenty twenty one photo of the fracture it doesn't show that day at or the rest in that drainage so that leads me as a lay person to believe that somebody's been up there and fix that drainage between nineteen and twenty twenty one and they failed to report the fracture. Is that not another issue. The different. Okay markup to the. Thank you zero. Hold on yes. His representative Wardlaw here. Not have a well he had a concern about the pictures well and it looked like there was the beginning of a crack over to the left of the big crack and we obviously went to great extents to figure out if that was an optical illusion or true and Michael Baker verified it was an optical illusion from the picture. I don't know what number you are what one level I I I young people go yeah I got a note on the queue. We have. It has represented Wardlaw I don't have any idea of what what what number you are. I'll just push a button and see. Sentifi dot director tutored do you know The two thousand nineteen video that was placed on social media you know who placed it on social media we do not I was asking that today some individual. It it wasn't from that Michael Baker video from what I understand it was a private individual and I got an email that just the other day this was from a private citizen that said they had drone footage to they'd like to share with me. I have a follow through with that the it was a private drone video. From twenty ninety. All up close. So you're not you're not sure why they didn't share it with you if they had in two thousand nineteen the. No I in no event thank you the thank you. Three. Go ahead representative baby Director tutor Understanding that the majority bridge inspections assessments are by visual inspection and it is complex time consuming and and prone to error at which is gotten us to where we are today just a a quick internet search you see a lot of Department transportations in other states that are researching use of modern technology and terrestrial laser scanners for assessment appropriate structure and conditions I was wondering if the department has pursued this Avenue Butte bridge assessment and if not is this something that you would look into. I'd like to pass that question over to my car the bridge maintenance engineer. Yes there's a lot of new technology out there and we do keep up with it we don't Nestle perform all the research that we know the people doing the research the lasers and that can't in that case would be very difficult a case like this because everything obstructs the laser light has to hit it so you would have to keep moving your device all over the place but we do use other electronic devices we have ultrasonic devices that we use to check that this is a metal and in other such things we use more than just a visual. The different line one. Okay and then then just one different question that I haven't heard addressed yet with this being a manual process and it also be prone to error at what level I would like a discussion of what level of review all the bridges segments go through within the department. From the time the assessments prepared and until you feel comfortable with that present that to your board. Sure up on our process basically what we've got the we've got the the main inspector and we have a the system inspector in depending on these big structures we have possibly two teams sometimes to put three teams on it and what they do whoever is putting in the data protected data it is verified by the other one and it so they have to sign off so there's two people sign off on each at least two people sign off in each section. So that's. C.. I'm sorry I keep turning in so it basically just the team someone else's double checking their work so there's no way there is some additional things when the the the maintenance needs those things all go to the like on these big structures they go to the staff a bridge maintenance engineer he will go review all the maintenance needs at the hour mark mark make a decision what goes to monitor what goes to we need to repair it you know and sometimes is so will will repair this the next time we go back and same thing on the State bridges the all the ones where we think the maintenance needs things the problems they all go to an engineer to review first the construction engineer who operates as the local program manager for the bridges throughout the state in the districts and then that goes to the maintenance engineer the maintenance engineer then reviews it decides what do I need to fix and what to keep in monitor so In the district that will be two engineers looking at all the maintenance needs which are the most critical items that we find on our inspections. Quick follow quick very quick based on what you just said were there any maintenance or anything identified within the proximity of this crack on on this bridge within the last three years no no no maintenance needs in our report in that area in the last three years correct thank you. Except for flaking paint I'll say that there was. You know at a joint that's the only thing we had for that area. Representative Vaught I think you're next in the queue thank you Mr chairman I have a question for you and then I have a question for them so if they have updated. A. Progress on the drone from on I. fifty five can they bring it to full A. L. C. to give us a report on what it looks like where we're at on that. A project and then any updates that they might have on the I. forty bridge could that be a possibility of them bringing to flail say so before we go home we actually have an update what the. Possible one everyone of you have availability for Friday if if there's any updates for the full a LC what time what time Friday nine AM okay we'll and whether it be Gil or or whoever the somebody they can you know if there's an update that thank you have or is available under. We'll make sales available it's not a problem maybe there's no update there's no nights need to come but if there is an update from the drum then I would like for us to know before we leave to go home absolutely thank sure that and then my other question is are there any pictures or any time I don't know when you started doing drum any pictures prior to two thousand and nineteen that shows what this looked like prior to. No no ma'am and it will this be something you all will do from now on you'll truly I'm sorry follow up. Yes. Is this something that you're going to do it's going to be from now on you're going to truly assess every single drone yes ma'am and make sure that you know it's by second by second to make sure that we don't part all into this again yes ma'am this is a redundancy or grad into the process along with others were still figuring all this out but that that's an easy fix that's easy so and one more follow up and then I'll be quiet are there any other bridges that you all are truly worried about besides I. forty and I. fifty five that you know of that are in the same kind of dangers loan as maybe those two could be because of weights because of the traffic that goes over. I mean we have several bridges are in poor condition this is a very unique design this is the only one in the state of Arkansas so we should not have we don't anticipate there being any other with this immediate. with any immediate danger okay thank you Mr thank you one twenty seven is that right senator hill. President. Since the button what. I guess I'm online senator garner. So I know there's a reason legislative study from outside consulting group that highlighted numerous issues with the R. dot as they sought from non existing processes to non redundancies to kind of oversight issues across the board seems like this is the same kind of issue that we saw come up to allow this employee to be negligent in this case and when those questions came up and that subcommittee over no return game we heard that's in review today you mentioned once again that this process is in review so directly will you prove you're providing a step by step processes to the Legislative through a L. C. throw something that explains both how the redundancies will work and how you will address is moving forward and if so can you give us any kind of generalized timeline we can expect that. Yes Sir we will provide that and that as far as a timeline. At. Can we do it in phases because it's probably gonna take take awhile to get it all put together but can we can we give you phase updates on how we move forward in improving our process yes ma'am and I prefer written policies that show how you will address this how this redundancy will happen how there will be checks and balances in review process across the board for this and for other issues as well thank you you're welcome. The fed's had evaluating that right now right are you there they're waiting until I mean right now the big focus is the bridge. And and they said when I talked to him and our division administrator she said in the next month or so will be coming in to do a review they're gonna wait until we kinda get settled in and settled down but it will happen in the very near future but at the same time we're not waiting for that. We're looking right now what can we do right now and that's what I'm talking about a phaser phased approach we can see low hanging fruit what we could do right now and then we're going to re find that as we go along get get the feedback from federal highway possibly bring in a consultant. So it'll you know it's going to be it's going to take us some time but we're right now already got ideas and had he's improved so we'll we'll do that for you for your senator garner and for the whole group see can see how we make progress. Thank you rector at one twenty seven senator hill. Thank you Mr chairman I'd like to follow up on my question while ago that that I ask about the reinspection of the bridges have you all actually play on any damage so far any other bridges with your re inspections from the former employee. They just we just started this morning so we do not have a report on that yet. Okay and you said your meter by next Friday no Sir we will lead by the middle of next month in like to okay thank you. All right one thirteen who's. All right go ahead senator represent lighting I'll try to be quick on this but list and everything here. Have you all had the support that you need from the federal government the the department transportation. Yes Sir they've been great partners in there helping us through this yes we have had support well the reason I ask that question. and maybe cannot make up on this on the question but you know Washington is talking about spending trillions of dollars on infrastructure in this is a main artery across the country we think about is local but it's a main artery all the way across the country so I would think that the federal government would be all over this thing and there be people coming down here to stand behind you ask you what you need and I don't see that I don't see it coming out of Washington so we need to call our congressmen and senators I go down knock on the door and get you more help you have okay well I know our Congress or congressional delegation has met with US secretary of transportation Pete. The judge and that there is huge amounts of conversation going on yesterday we had a press conference in a documentary team was there filming me in this situation as part of the failing into infrastructure in the United States. There's a huge amount of conversation going on in this just highlights the need for investment in the United States or in the US the infrastructure. And I feel like the conversation was very positive before this happened and now it's become even more positive I think everyone understands the need for funding for infrastructure so I misunderstood your at your question at the beginning but I will tell you as they are they are watching this very closely we're getting national attention right now and and I have gone so far to say is. When the questions come to me. Well where is the funding it come from I have said don't worry about the funding I have full confidence in our governor and our legislature and in our congressional delegation that if we can absorb the fix in our budget you will come to the table and it'll it's going to happen we're not going to leave that bridge closed and we're gonna make sure it's done right so yes they have they have been partners with this and they are there watching this and it's it's. I for see this meaning more funding in the future in the near future. Mmhm. Representative Nicks. Thank you Mister District Court once phase one is completed the plates put on. Is there a possibility that one or two lanes each way can be open before the the the whole project is completed. Are not according to the experts they they this is just a stabilizer structure Page one. So. We can be sure that all the traffic on I. forty will be closed until the final completion of the project yes Sir did everyone here that I'm sorry did. So that is a a nine hundred foot span that this crack is en route. There's two nine hundred two hundred I pushed means yes all right so we'll that whole being is is that the plan to replace this main from underneath with a with now for just a fraction section just that fraction section not they'll post tension the bridge can a second in take the take the tension off of that fractured section remove it and replace it with new section all right that's just your committee that seem like a logistic nightmare if you're trying to replace Yasser for the fans. The I see no other questions in the queue. Co chair have any questions even awful quiet. Just one question no hello but they don't have it. I appreciate your indulgence I know you've had a very busy week and we appreciate your work and any updates if you could you know put put all the members of the committee and those updates if you have any of those drone footage updates for Friday if if a deal could bring them to the full A. A. L. C. would appreciate it we will keep you posted we'll keep you updated every step of the way thank you director thank you might thank you rex thank you have a better week.