Arkansas Independent Citizens Commission

You need to put you right on it that's what we talked about last time sorry just months okay if any today we would not be predicated upon the cost of living increase other than some type of mathematical. Rold gold road sign that we could consider other than that it is a salary increase which which is what it would be granted if any okay center here but that that is I was state attendance step up right in a good here I know and it's back question was just as you stated is that. For which the cost of living or we did. But salaries yes. Based on various criteria and you just answered so I'm satisfied thank you I love you being here in person Sark which that inconvenience but I live right of the sheep get right start. I could you will let we're going with the the judges of. Three comment anyway they want to today before we take any affirmative action so let me having said that if I could please number one of. We have a a quorum present to do business number two everybody knows I thank on the commission at the Nathan Evers had to resign he got a he was called for a third term on the board of trustees of of of south Arkansas university and we we couldn't complementing more he was a fine addition we pre created his service and and I want comment to you I'm not trying to pander but I'm just gonna say it to you of. We're citizens of this commission we're citizens who also happens if the lawyers bankers of entrepreneurs of. And so I thank you for your time and volunteer to come here of like everybody else and not in the beginning of the COVID nineteen it in all of twenty you know we did everything bows and to hear exactly is why we could at any time we can come together the way we send vision for us to do as a citizen independent citizens commission we get to deliberate deliberation involves the looking hearing in person of one to the other unless the old school but is meant is often as we can do that we should and I hope you will continue to be supportive that because you really are doing a good job with it let me also make this comment the not of of of great news but of we'll Melanie Jenkins of huge gratitude of service for the last seven and a half years she is the the only mandatory of person that's involved to the auditor's office and she's done so she to my knowledge she gets no extra monetary consideration for the times I warrior and and we have an or do things so I can't tell you how much we appreciated this is especially true given the last of ten days to twelve days of because of the sacrifice she's made with serious illness of her mother and I'm sorry to tell you that she lost mother last Thursday and she still order trooper here and work in and even tease me to say aye you're not gonna get off that easy I'm here again today so we thank you very much and and we we can't tell you that enough now of. Let me see what what's next of business. Yes if you. Chairman banks. Your Jonathan Rogers here Jan sentiment here Philip Fletcher. Phillips asset it can't be available timing may hear justice to. Also is you know of by her email and then my comments you that NO a a could not be president bush's got a conflict with the of thing that she's working on for training sessions for the lawyers over the tourney general's office now. Is Mr of lower castes were here. I thank all of you had an opportunity to read a hope of this castor's letter of thought it was very interesting I thought it was informative and we haven't had citizens really get involved since of the last message before the the covid and so what if he comes in as we told and you're more than welcome they hear you more than welcome have something to say and and will give them that that accommodation now of if we could not to keep the judges waiting too long of. It I'll just leave it up to you all I've got something there that the well what made his or any of. Motions or additions or corrections to the minutes of the last meeting August twenty fifth all those in favor say aye. I'm sorry I make a motion from somebody to approve his or sex. All in favor. No one supposed so we'll we'll go forward that I'm referring now I'm not that it is necessary in order to talk about right this minute but of this section C. you probably haven't had a chance to read that actually swap all authority was published you know yesterday and and not I've just had it put in the file it's real self explanatory and as of before this meetings over I would like to of explain to you on my position and I ask for resolution not necessarily today if you're not if you would be ready to go forward with it but some something fairly soon of because I want to discuss with you the distinguishing factor between the independent citizens commission how it's been how was passed I was originated how it's been mandate has been ruined and all the different factors that go into how this commission is is been of created by citizens in a unique capacity unlike any other agency we're not a state agency we're Commission and there is one entry and one statute that suggests that and will when given enough time to go through this I think you understand how that we already do exactly what it is that the commission would suggest that we do by that one statute and if you look at it further special is a lawyer of first thing you would thank is what I thought well this looks like we're we're obligated to send out a different notice and a different Avenue I don't think we are not and I'll be happy to discuss that with the father of. Let's see. All right. Commission review for salary adjustment for circuit court judges appeal judges flights prime court judges. District Court judges in the prosecuting attorneys of. There's something that we need to discuss we shouldn't necessary discuss it now but we we have not touched upon. Of since we we had as a meeting back last year and when we made this decision and may be the same when you will be what we need to understand in my opinion given the mandate and responsibilities and duties of us under article nineteen section thirty one which sets out for us exactly what we should do exactly what we can do or not granted the right to and that is to two of. Review and adjust the salaries when necessary according to those guidelines were making of of I guess support of ways been presented and I don't have any problem with that the the judgment of salaries for all the ones that is rare at all you understand of course that we have a whole group of judges excuse me of constitutional officers governor of president pro tem of the Senate of the Speaker of the house of and all of the constitutional officers that have made no request no we requiring no input whatsoever about a salary pre shipped from of it may not be the six is worthy of discussion but I think that we should consider that at some point twelve we will continue with that mandate because frankly I think they were they requiring more of us than to just take a lump sum of view this and. I think the implication is for other states that they expect some type of building into it will little more or less than and and what we did last year with nothing wrong with don't we did exactly what we should but now I think that we need to think about it not only for the rest of our ten years but for you almost ten years next year at the end of the year and future future commissions to call that's that's just what I thank the of is anybody have any comment before we let the judges to speak to any other issue they want to talk about this call for a vote yes I'd like to speak to that you're not the commission is given this charge to review all the constitutional law enforcers salaries and I think that should be done without reference to a request to what to a request. because as I understand it the effort was to take. The the issue of salaries out of politics out of and and I doubt that. You know if I were in the position of the governor I would not be asking for a salary raise okay so I think we need to look at other states and and as you say do more delving for to look at salary adjustments so that just because. Elected officials the the other than the judges and prosecutors don't ask for it we need to keep their pay. Commensurate with with what they should be getting and not just based upon their failure to request because what'll happen if this all of a sudden and and we know this is happened in Arkansas in the past when the governor was making what thirty two thousand dollars a year and that's not appropriate for the chief executive officer of the state so. I think you're exactly right and that we need to do more delving we've done a lot on judges and I think we've done a good job on judges but I think we need to do more delving into the other. Constitutional offices and what what is going on around the country. because the whole idea of this commission was to take it out of politics and make sure our constitutional officers were adequately compensated for their work. Yes talk yes that is exactly right of. One thing that we have to always think about whether we have the impact from the constitutional office. Officials are not. You know we're not evaluating performance what we're doing is we're making sure that we keep salary range is where they should be. And if we don't do that some of the you're from two years from now. Are going to be out of alignment with where they should be and then some citizens committee is going to have to recommended each up to get it back to where they should he or adjustments prepared to. I just think it is it is critical that we not only under state we're not a performance review group but we are certainly responsible for making sure that the salary ranges are where they should because again I'm very much in my own organization what what you want to do. Regardless of what somebody say aye if they don't want an increase well they still have to take it and grief because of. The the issue of making sure that we're state to. We're we should be and at that. John. Well I was thinking about you know what we've got from The judges on all and what we've been prepared to compare them to other states I think that would be good to have for all those positions for us to look at the kind of going back to what they said. I do think we need to look at each one individually and kind of come back together once we have all that information and kind of figure out what we need to do because we want to be in line with with other states and want to be sure that we're giving them the raises that that the road and just like you know shouldn't just talk said it's it's hard to ask for a raise when you're in that position right so that is that's not what they're going to do but it's our job to make sure that we keep that in line and that we give the race appropriate specially to the past year it's been a hard year for all those people especially our governor you know so I think it's some will look at and get that information and just kind of go through each one individually and see how we compare with with other states around us I'm I'm proud of the fact that our judges or have good pay compared to other states you know I think that something we should be proud of as a state and I'm also proud of our. of our government ineffective you know the report we had last month with our budget surplus and that shows all these people are working hard and you know obviously doing a job that they've been asked to do by the city so obviously there's more that goes into that but I think it's just something we have to look at each one individually I agree we don't want that in like we did somewhat last year even though last year I think that was appropriate going back to what you said this time I think we have time before the end of the year whatever that may be to look at each one individually get that information and just reconvening go through each one and see what we want to do it may be that some get a little more And so make it a little less than maybe they all wind up getting the same percentage overtime but I think it's something we should just look at. Thank you commissioner. Good morning and I also the eight agree with my other fellow commissioners. We are charged to. Separate ourselves as we make our decisions going forward because we basically have a group that we have to look at that has no voice really in this as opposed to some of the agency decisions that we heard about last meeting of where the employees are given performance increases in raises they also benefit from having cost of living raises we have to look at our judiciary and understand that day step up they run for these positions they operate under their judicial canons and making good decisions for the citizens of the State of Arkansas and it's incumbent upon us to look at the jobs that they're doing because there is no other voice for salary increases our cost of living than this commission so it does take a lot of of thought and study and also applicable to our constitutional officers. Thank you all appreciate that I agree with everything each and every one he said I would ask you this one question to you and this is not to be provocative of this thank you and and not and not mine the Commissioner may do you of. Not proceed any point in other words is the language of of article nineteen section thirty one indignity that is that we are clearly never would ban a posture that we would of of a weight performance as a condition for salary yes. Again I agree what you say that every all of this ask is this so what what does it say again that we will. We should deal with the problem. The state performances is a salary adjustment and in fact all these different conditions. Well I think we have to factor in all of the conditions again the party said what comparable positions are in this state what situations are in our state installation but we don't have the capacity to evaluate performance. All right the group. I agree with that because I think. Performance review involves other people reviewing and giving us information and just speak as a retired judge the performance review is by the electorate. It's it's not and and and likewise for other elected officials it's by the electorate they like what you do they don't like what you do or your policies course judges are not supposed to take positions they're supposed to be you know non partisan and neutral under the law and and following the law and interpreting the law and I I think it would be most appropriate for us to take to do performance review for elected officials. Well so all state goes day with the rest of you I'll also agree with all of that. But I want to ask questions make sure we thought our way through the whole process having said that judges of anybody else one comment I suppose in relation to the at all anything else that we discussed for a revisit something discussed last time like any comment of pro or con about the letter we received from this gentleman run this past. J. The Little Falls. The chairman banks I just want to rely on the statement comments I made at the last meeting I don't have any addition to that just like the courts expect the parties to and the citizens to respect their ruling so we as judges and the judiciary will respect your religion this case thank you. Thank you just Chief. All right. Well then this of of for C. the only one that we have the mandate about the in the and horrible nineteen that are the circuit judge about the uniform salary so let's just take them however you will. Are you will take a. In order. Assume everybody's ready to go forward and. May I ask is a point of information I presume based upon. What you have said earlier Jonathan that we'll start dealing with the other elected constitutional officers. Not in this meeting but will will get more information and then start working on them okay. Okay thank you very much well I'd I'd like to kick this off and We heard from John shall not. Of an excellent report I mean we're so proud of the state of Arkansas and how it's done through some pretty bad times. But I would hesitate to take into account all of this money that flowed in. Two Arkansas that's one time money. it is not sustainable and I went back and read some of the information that we were provided by Johnson office thank you is it not working. Okay I'm sorry okay okay thank you we always have to have our tech tech people straightness out. I I as a point of personal privilege I was in services yesterday yesterday was Russia shall not and we had to have tech people straighten something out in the middle of the service some I'm used to being interrupted. But he pointed out that because the tax deadline change in two thousand twenty. It really gives. Kind of a false balloon. Of of revenue in one year versus another year. And so you get you know you get to the point where where we were fortunate we didn't have to have mid year cuts like some states did But. We are. We got less collection of monies non federal monies during this period which is understandable sales taxes and actually sales went up because of the moneys from the covid payments from the federal government because people had money to spend and I had they needed up for groceries et cetera. So I want to place that on the table to make sure we understand that. We have fared very well up to now but I think the jury's out. For the future. When those one time monies and they've stopped now. They're gonna they're they're finished I mean I know there's some infection money that's supposed to be paid out and stuff like that but. So. The fact that we're flush right now I think should be taken as a. Occassion with caution and I just wanted to make that statement first. Thank you are concurrent any of the statements in the commission will click on that issue. Well as I read this six hundred page report. And all the bar charts I noticed that our income was primarily on internet sales tax fairness receipts of consumers that we're spending money for sure but we were of relying on that money coming in and I think that doctor shall not pointed out from two thousand sixteen until now we now sit with over a billion dollars in surplus fund which is I think it's admirable I also heard him say aye aye he talked about inflation and other budgetary items that you know he looked at the car market and how that was going to affect the state but he didn't see anything going forward that was going to drastically affect where we are and I think that speaks to the long term policy of the State of Arkansas operating under a balanced budget a provision I was also struck that all of our funding through the state was suspended in all categories at which I can't remember it hearing anything like that you know always if you were in the bottom part of category B. or C. you probably weren't going to get you committee so I think that the economic engines of our state are alive and well when when we look at things going for it and the fact remains is. Everything costs more across the board and I understand my charging being a responsible citizen but I also understand that there are people that are maybe taking lesser money in these positions in order to because in their. Conscious they want to serve the state of Arkansas they want to make good decisions for us going forward and I don't feel light because of that that we need to look at that any other way than one of their good service that has been provided. It all. This in the last meeting but. You know from a business persons perspective. Every year you have a budget. And. You give guidance. To what the expectations are. Thanks for each. That will be spent. So. I didn't hear the presentation but we get that set on. But. We could come back and recommend or what percentages we can come back and recommend. But the short. Somebody's oversee the budget. You know we come back some some birds congregate. What. What. We received some kind of got something. I'm not no I'm not familiar. Okay again maybe this is just different. That way but if the. Thank you. You're going back to work you know miss Simmons sitting on our business in this past year with inflation and things like that specific getting people to work and we've had to have significant raises more than three percent or five percent to to our employees just because the cost of living and you know inflation is there and you know whether the cost of living adjustment or performance race. I just think it's one of those things that if you look back. For more were your goal what things cost what we are today and stressed to clear for right when you go grocery store the lumber yard or whatever that may be so I do think we have to be responsible you know definitely with what we do with the state funds but but also think we have to be responsible in what we what we tell people but will be in the race for you know what I mean and and three percent to me in my opinion is is very reasonable for the year that we've had when and when you talk about the amount of money that is the position that there and you know the degree is that what what they've gone to school to do and how they represent our state I definitely want to be mindful of citizens and we don't want to give away money that we don't need to give away but I definitely don't think it's giving it away it's an earned increase and probably could be argued that it should be more than that based on the last year with inflation of things and it may be something we have to look at next year you know what I mean the I would think keeping in line with what the state did is a safe thing in my opinion and something that we should say okay if the state feels this way about the employees of the state I don't think we should have for the people that have asked us for a three percent raise less than that that's my personal opinion on it based on the past year. What is that number three Percy. Yes I mean as we go down through the the numbers of the strippers yeah I believe so correct me if I'm wrong on any of those. No that's not wrong. One one thing really. tenet about saying anything could be interpreted as if of. Not aware and fully appreciate what these judges have done and and what we this commission is done in the past to to bring them current I just want to be sure of at least I'm talking to myself because nothing you said disagree with I'm not sure that three percent of the right number but it probably is I'm not I'm not going to be provocative about it. But I want to remember some of the things that we heard of when we talk was the last about the issues of whether or not you're and recently good standing with other states that we might that contrast to and you then we considered all other different considerations that were supposed to consider one of which. Is that we don't I don't ever want to feel like that I'm not paying attention to the other half of the spectrum. Because everything you said H. and R. one said also it to them said they deserve. What this commission adjust up or for them they do I don't have any questions about that but be sure this is what I keep saying myself be sure. They were not. Being totally of. Focused on one half of the considerations and what all the other people are getting or not getting their state employees now be sure you of Haitian to tell you I don't think we have no jurisdiction to raise a state employee we have no jurisdiction to do anything for state employees it's not even in our mandate. But I think we're supposed to consider having said that I don't I don't have any objections would any of you say it thank you. Hi want to point out this is Annabelle I want to point out that the information given to us about state Oklahoma on Louisiana when you look at those actually Missouri I thank It that the it's a mixed bag but are you will has pays more for most of these positions. and a Tennessee. Pays more for some of them Oklahoma is is lower in in most of its positions and the Louisiana. Is about the same as Arkansas of with respect to Missouri. I would say that it's. It It has some lower points but it also has some that are the same so. In looking at those they didn't really give me a lot of help if you want to know the truth of the matter. so you know I it. you what I'm looking at the S. average is that we're done you've you've got it right of Missouri Louisiana and Tennessee and and even with the averages I don't think you can draw many conclusions about comparisons So. You know it's. We we know that there is more expense now I mean we know that the inflation rate has been higher than usual. I don't know how long it's gonna last but that doesn't. Forestall the issue for us which is now. Not. Not the future I mean. Inflation may go down. I don't know. but if they go up. It's always I remember and to go shooting a contract with somebody recently yeah I know we we put a cap we put a cap on something and we were so glad we did because of that it's been cold based B. at six percent. But So I am if if if you were to ask me and and if I vote today if we vote today I would I would be in favor of the three percent. Even looking at both sides of the equation you know I've already talked to you about the the one time money that's come through but. That that hasn't changed the fact of the matter that the cost of living is Maureen is more expensive right now. So I can't do that you you raise excellent point and and I will comment on yeah the. The the very thing you talked about about not the the comparisons to other states not giving any kind of help that you're looking for I felt the same way yeah also field this and some sometimes I don't. When I come up with some of brainstorms of probably within a lot of times I'd set on because they're they're not applicable. Here's what I hope this commission is not doing it and part of of. Pridgen. Is that we can let ourselves the and that is this. If we become a commission. That for the right reasons but at the same time the result is that we just of. A rubber stamp. Whatever's that comes over from the governor's office not that there's anything wrong with it I'm just saying what's called for in our mandate of article nineteen section thirty one if we were ever stamp it. Each year because we like them and they do good jobs and all that then I fear that they'll come a point when what's what's the reason for us to be here. Internet back legislature until the governor you listen you just keep sending your your cost of living and your your of. That you will need is and I don't mean it to be apartment I'll promise you I think that from the heart of his willingness to be sure and I'm talking out loud to myself as much as anything if we did one vote last year non member afterwards I thought of. I am I would really say work I just went along with it in all of. And I'm not going along to get along I'm just saying bear that in mind I know you are no you do it and that's why you're articulate what you doing today and I appreciate here and. It it seems like to me that we need a quote salary administration policy that we follow year ended year. We can make adjustments to that based on things that happen. And. Thank. The board. We've talked about. Using the state as a big. You know to. To help us understand that are we in the media. Of these positions are. Well if we're going to use it we need to use. And. If we're not we need to at least under. Establish what guidelines that we will to use for example. Just taking the eight judges for example I would like. Two the the the the media. For each position we have to establish that our sales. If you do this rich here. Do we have that we will actually do we have if you look at what. First page. As the mean and the median. For the whole country. And it lays out the chief the associate justices the H. in general jurisdiction doesn't have the appellate chief but. Bottom line we're in. We're we're is that states were twenty one and twenty seven. so work right we're right in the middle right now sure we weren't there for a long time ago right before this commission was created. So would you agree that that are. separate ministration land so to speak. Is that whether we is a four five states or whether we use this that we should. At least Would be we will be at the. The only we will be. State. Eighty percent of the mental what we're we to be working there we need to make this issue how long it would take to get there. Thanks to deal with or not we can. Employed now for the future of. The Bill. If you. You had the time or anybody else on the commission will do it of a law justice to the two of you are all four of put that in to a plan that we work with Act anything improved process for us to be more accurate and more fair and reasonable and I'm all for I thank my purposes is that. It's. One of objectivity and from the standpoint of movie yes all. Based on which you mentioned that we were going to each one of the. We look first thing we need to do is say okay this is where we will be an important. And we know that. So we're going to need more. Others to get to this point. That's that's not that's not. To the. Get. To me it just moves things faster and it gives us a great guidelines to fly. This is a sign I want to point out and and I was. Generalizing but I want to point out if you look on this survey from the national center on state courts. The median for the Chief Justice is one hundred ninety thousand four hundred and sixty. Our Chief Justice makes one hundred and eighty one thousand six hundred six. So we're talking about about a nine thousand dollar. Difference then the associate justice on the the median. Makes a hundred and eighty three thousand nine hundred and I can't really say what that figure is but. our associate justices make one seventy four thousand seven seventy one so that's less than the median. the judge of the intermediate appellate court in Arkansas makes a hundred and sixty one thirty four where as the median is one seventy seven thousand six hundred thirty three so that's less. Now on the circuit judge side we've hit the target. All the circuit judges are at one sixty three thousand seven ninety seven. And the media is one hundred sixty three thousand one hundred ten. So I you know I just I just wanted to let you know they don't have district judges on this that's one thing they do not have in this national center they have a different organization. But I just wanted you all to know that we we we've done pretty well on the trial courts but we are still. In terms of median if you want to set that as a standard we're still drag. And I do know that there has been some commentary. And hi I will encourage. The. The judges to speak on this tour here if they want to which is. The announcmenet payment paid to the district judges. Is. But to the circuit judges. Yes more. Then the court of appeals judges is that right. Wait a minute. Okay. Yeah. Okay I appreciate that but bottom line is I think. We we have done a good job of. Bringing up the level over time. And if we're going to use medium. We were in the ballpark but we're not quite there yet. Say that so. Well articulated exactly what I thank you that you may find a couple of positions that are over. And that does mean that you don't get any increase it just means that increase would be less. And that. We have anybody that is over why is if you're quite a bit under it that means you're gonna jump up to that level it means if there is a the three that you do for me personally. But with a very specific code and. Richey that. Media midpoint. Three or four years one every day. But it would it would that'll. Every year it's going to be. Either below or above it were using just the cost of living or. Or the. Thank you should. By the way in. Inflation rate is very precarious he is. With what we're looking at right now. Of I want to correct myself I was looking at this figure and that's not correct if I want to take the actual figures from the survey by the national center on state courts published July of this year. And it we we are we are really at. Right right in the target area because like if I were come we don't know here we don't have the chief judges but we have the associate justices make a hundred and eighty four five eighty eight and the median is a hundred and eighty three nine thirty nine. So and then the intermediate appellate court makes a hundred and seventy seven six thirty three and the in and we are little that hundred seventy nine two thirteen and finally the general jurisdiction judges the median I said was one sixty three and we're at one seventy four eight eighty three so I'm sorry I misspoke I was using the wrong tally. if this is an average without Arkansas. So. But so bottom line is I think we've done a good job that doesn't address the issue though of of. The inflation factor. I will ask you questions. Did I understand your comment when you're reading from that chart a minute ago about of our state our position of our judges of the specific one talking about that that we would have done well in and it done better we were still dragging note that that I use the wrong chart okay that is incorrect and I want to stand corrected in in my incorrect and this is part of that thing came from the chart from the national center. Did did some of the states that we contrast that are judges two of the surrounding surrounding states it did not some of those states not give their judges any last year any increase. I don't know I mean I don't think I'm correct at least two states didn't get any increase in regional point that out I don't know because it doesn't reflect here when all we had a document is pure myth of the day for the same I'm not correct I guess already know raise that is not an opposition what you said I just. I will be sure that my sense that. It's not a race to move these judges up to the highest possible level that that they deserve but not necessarily given the the analysis that we're doing. That is not timely to give it to all I mean well I was in charge of this nobody else what I'm saying though is this information that was that was obtained and then the back up of each state only tells us something about the twenty twenty one twenty one twenty two fiscal salary it doesn't say anything about twenty. So I don't I don't know whether they got a raise or not. Or. You will. It's my understanding that we've made a lot of headway in adjusting the salaries I personally. I want to take into consideration what our state surrounding us are doing but I also know that they're different economic engines in each state and the way they're taxed or maybe not taxed in different manners that we don't necessarily always have to be a follower but maybe it would be nice if we're a leader in some of these categories with the way our state is moving and and being driven by it multiple economic engines not tied as some of the surrounding states around us are Arkansas is blessed to have many many different kinds of businesses that drive our state and I think we should be reflective of that in our compensation not to always be a follower but to maybe be a leader what I'm hearing is our salaries look like maybe they're in line for now but I feel that we're talking about more the cost of living adjustments more so in a couple of formulation of three percent. Are you saying you saying that the discussion or you're saying that you think that's what we ought to be to. I'm saying that I appreciated the discussion that we have and also looking at the national judicial scale pay scale that we certainly with due diligence and a lot of conversation and thought have looked at that to make our judges in line with the national standard for sure but we still need to be adjusting what is affected all of us which is the cost of living increase which is affected every citizen and the state of Arkansas bar what the continuous states he's me contiguous states around us are doing. I thank I think I I think I agree but. Where I still get a little bit confused it is so if we are using. At work. That we would do what. What we would do. To where there is a range a value eight workers for every position. And that is just absolutely sure that worse is established by each usually some criteria I mean you could go would get a. Insulted to take it at that's not what I think we want to be. So you got to have some. It also waited come up with that worse you. We're talking about using the state and yes. We at the money I'd like for us to be proactive and on top of it. But if we win it in some way the that we're we could look at it and see what it meant. Then I think we could. We could just that are so it comes we could it would. So okay the judgment factor. To accomplish what you want to lead And in the later. In other words our goal may not be able to goal may be at the seventy five percent over the sixtieth person or you are. I think it gives us all we're all wanting to do it. To make sure. All right. Any other comments or discussion. Already put this on the. Florida motion. We will talk but there's no rush not being. Chairmen are we taking this category by category R. as this motion to be made for across the board. Hello in the category of the. Okay for yes that's what I thought I just want to be sure all. Well you can do it either way I mean I I think you could do it is all judges. Appellate and trial or you can do it separately. I guess my my position is. If you're gonna raise one group of judges why wouldn't you raise the other group of judges. so that I'm just sharing with you that I I don't see a distinction well I I agree that I just wasn't clear since we talked about the different categories. Yes my from files going in in the on this but when it comes to the other offices we're going to discuss and going back to Tommy's comment about you know I guess not to get off the subject but if we had the similar information that we have for the judges that makes the decision on the judges. Not easy but more simplistic when you compare to other states and see what we ran console so forth so if we had that somewhere information and then we could meet and discuss as a group in here whatever kind of what we want that to be You know I think that would help us in our decision making for twenty twenty two and and beyond even when it comes to the justices and. As we don't discuss their salary info to for future years so that was just my thought about how we get that information. You so. No I was not talking about that I was just talking about for the future. Okay. That's exactly right. We're we're talking about budgets readjustment for twenty two is that correct. Thank this road okay you're so as right and we've got. Yeah yeah so. That September September for the. Tions. But my point. Thank you yes we all get cart before the war I would love to do is if we. Three. What we just talked about if we could get a report. The. Usually the judges as an example. That would show again the the. The median Dimmitt Point or the main whatever we wanna make his or her written. Position at all. The survey of those those state or the national or both if we could do that. When we are out there and make recommendations for the adjustment on the position. Now how we get that the I'm not sure I'm not sure if that state get prepared that report for us. You know. If the that's where we ought to but if the the. Ninety eight. It. But in my right in saying that that we want to get the Rangers that placement for we to an increase. I guess and in my opinion we've got a lot of that information for judges yeah we've we've we've so I'm I'm comfortable discussing what they requested today you know none not to not to postpone that but I think we're talking about governor you know all these other offices we don't really have all that information but I guess my point was as we look at this for next year with judges and justices I think at that point in time we could have that for every position you know I mean just like we have that spreadsheet I was looking at this got every person every office that we're trying to determine. You know if we had that for all those positions it would help us next year as we go forward this to say okay well district court's maybe we don't do three percent maybe we do one and and you know maybe this group we do five to get him in line with what you were thinking about backed your idea there. All right any other of comments. And I entertain a motion that we take the judges have a hole that would that's what you wanted to write okay. Is there a motion. Just to let the bullet I move that of for the fiscal year two thousand twenty two. We adjust the salary of all judges appellate and of. General jurisdiction and district judges right there included. Right well the prosecuting attorney gets tied in automatically so by doing this the the effects the prosecutors us our by of the three percent. A based upon this particular year's inflation factor. That include the prosecutors right okay the prosecutors are already included in direct also on my second session. All those of favour say aye You can you can dissent I just sent looks thank you look so. I know I can I'm troubled by for the. I thank you look so. Tacky. To grandstand with one saying vote says the consensus of Fingleton individual Winded individual. What you may want to go back and do them individually. One million I think this just. Good taste and so on both for. Home from the jury's list managers list of all the right. Okay. One day when I will everybody understands this I know that it's mandated by us that this is a vote for a proposition to the of public the ten day waiting period for public comment will come back again and and then confirm this resolution it will be put resolution form and then we'll come back in and a vote on and finality in the Senate to the of. Just because Health. So is there but basically only at so we don't need to vote on that is anything else we needed to. Chairman do we need to set I'm sorry do we need to set a date to come back and discuss the constitutional officers who've got okay. We've got a of. L. round you got hello I. D. how about next week not the fifteenth that that's a Wednesday but the twenty second the following Wednesday. And although we have to do it on Wednesday. What about Tuesday of next week is that too soon that's not ten days and that and okay. What's the twenty second said Wednesday it is and that's fourteen days calendar days not businesses. Hi this the twenty fires fourteen. Fourteen twenty one twenty first yeah the that work for everybody that's on Tuesday twenty first. Tuesday twenty first ten o'clock. A week after that September twenty. Thank you to yeah. Twenty first which I want to the game which. Okay. All right ten o'clock. To do that twenty four. Yeah we station to occur on or we give you a. I just I just really want to. Four to understand are we going to get a report helped along the lines of what we talked about. For a request I'm all I'm all for that will not we don't have a budget you know there's a reason for that so. It's mandated in the in our act so we'll we're requested and then I think that what we can do it one or two you were just talking I'll be happy to help Calling on it to try to ease. Hobble that out the way we want. The big that but we'll get we'll get out of your research in any of the agencies to start with well she she also. You have. Yeah I I would urge that I don't think that information will be available within five this next meeting I'll I'll no no it's it's because that's what I'm saying intensive I mean it's a lot. So I want to be sure we're being realistic with time frame. Okay is in the study Legislators across okay great I I figured you had some organizations that have the stuff so anyway that's great well then not do we go to per diem next discussion of. I have one more question of the is in that is that we made that judgment of three personally for the judge to judge. Just. Okay so if if we did that. With the report that we have this report here. Are we are we. Hello the mid point. As shown by the target is judges of that three per sample so would Not not not really okay and and we don't know what the other states are going to be doing for twenty twenty two to two also. we're we're we're going forward in other states are going forward and so it may be that that's why you get a yearly a yearly report. It's not that right now. Okay don't say the judges thank you for common appreciate all your input thank you for your patience of what no one of weeks prosecutors to and you're welcome to stay if you care to hear this brilliant so are you ready to go home. You. If you've got other fish to fry. Okay of. You have another question. Then you more know about pretty well we have the per diem and the and the the the APA statute let me tell you something about hopefully okay speed this the sure no problem of we got some more information in last night from a fit with one agency we requested I said don't send it out to we'll talk about it more because they don't have time to read it of. In in conversation with Roy Ragland I'm convinced that the way we've done this in the past can be properly done pursuant to our mandates to article nineteen and that is that there are so many oversights that go on the card Already being done but as long as we can look at that and read that and I understand and then follow our duties we send we recommend this report is what we did last time except we just kind of signed off so to speak which is okay so we view all of those men that then is the next meeting I'll have this before to you for next meeting in the next meeting we can take it back up and I think with some degree of simplicity and lack of unnecessary war we can. Approve the report and send it and then we can use that as a standard from here all. Because we've got once for all what we're supposed to get not just yes Is that fair enough. So. Roy's not here anyway. Anyone he knows he knows what to do we all right correct by the way one last thing I keep forgetting this is Jody void Edwards and she is a longtime friend of mine originally from a home in Mississippi County and we've been friends and Jodie's agreed to help me part time is my legal assistant and she does a great job she's very smart very talented anyway that's that's who Jody is now. Is there any other questions or comments and I'd like to take up of this sow this section city and I need a minute to kind of collect my thoughts on this And I can't read to you because I can't stand doing that but I might try to find something to read here's here's what asking this court on the screen asking of this commission. To resolve. And. It probably didn't even need other than informational for you you probably really didn't even need to. Put it to you and this type format. Word appears on making of. The speech so to speak but I'm not. Of. As I told you since the last of meeting of last year re question and review some people collect. Seashells on public the amounts think about the constitution and how it's come about and why and I've been going back and really dig in and to oracle nineteen section thirty one. And of the day before last meeting near brought it to my attention that one section this one statute of. Identified us as a commission which made us a part of the administrative procedures act. And I looked at that and October I'll bring it at the end of the commission but I don't I'm not. Not to I'm not criticizing her on the set I don't. Agreeing I don't share your your opinion that we are mandated to do anything more than what we're doing because we're not an agency we are Commission and so what I want to talk to you about this to bring this information to your attention I would like you to give me the the direction and go ahead that we don't have to do anything more than what we're doing now because we're not an agency consistent with that because of how we are read a how we were originated how we were legally mandated with this Commission and what our duties responsibilities or and that to do anything otherwise is just duplicating what we do today and And frankly I don't wanna see this commission. Do anything more than what I think I didn't think like this on the first time I was on this commission I thought the whole thing was of. Was interesting but it didn't even stand a chip a chance of passing but it did and well after I studied is the thought about it bill one group and then now this next group I've come to believe that. This this commission. Is a of an exercise in our purest form of democracy citizen participation independent from government. And again I didn't think like that before but if you look Ray Vermont and New Hampshire the only ones in this country that really exercise and use your democracy in the form of citizens meaningful participation so having said all that here's the bottom line there is no other entity in state government. Of that was originated like this one. This was Ridge dated by citizens vote to establish an independent commission by constitutional mandate not by agency not by any entity of state government the only agency of state government that was used to implement this was the governor the secretary of a scheme and the President Pro Temp and others that are warning people to a commission. answers to the citizens in after that. The this the governor and all the other people are people that are helping us in meaningful and we you know we wanna of cooperating along with them but we don't answer to them by way of an agency relationship. It is a pure Commission relationship and when you look at article nineteen section thirty one you see exactly how that any exemption is granted to another commission is already being handled by us in other words we're mandated from step one to the end of the only thing we're of of allowed to do by citizen approval is contained right there the House people are qualified how long they can serve who who and what they are to do with the the everyday Office of running of this commission of and all the other components that go into how we run it and and it's been run as a this is really self serving but. Ski. And I and I think that the Melanie could certainly confirm that you want to all of. She can confirm to you that all these people came here and told us exactly how this was to run it's really quite brilliant and and Anna huckster wrong and but it's not to be where you are conforming as if you're an agent providing services to a state agency because you're not. The only one we answer to is of same before the meeting started is the jurisdictional court. And to the media so do for you that's it and the rest of it is clearly spelled out for us exactly how we do how long were here see I'm I'll be gone next the next year and then you all will presumably be backed police choose not the for your second term and so I just I don't want us to get in commerce and it's not that I'm paranoid about a state agency they provide great services but if you look at The the mandate for us. Then all we're required to do is sit services of superbly in there about public notice and then upon public notice with public having a chance to be involved in the citizens. Or independent of any other influence it was taken away is just upset while ago taking away totally from the as well I don't think we accomplish what we need to accomplish no John riding in and I'd say more and more you will longer dissertation but of of fully believe it's in our best interest or woods Senate to use matter fact we first look at a lorry with thank all that kind of a no brainer yeah we we should sign up and and become a part of this sow website we already have our website we've had it for seven years it's been run since part of the art here's to our other jurisdictional I mean or other oversight portion of the media with for years and panels or in my opinion and of. We don't have a budget so we don't have we don't we're not obligated to pay anybody to put this on the website it's all there already and we've been doing it all the time and just at the last of the meeting of the house came up or not I'm not sure but she wisely and I think it was a good thing to lower it to us so that we can see this and show the distinction so that we don't have to be involved. That makes sense yeah I'd I'd like to if you don't mind I'd you know I'd like to go back and do some research before we decide in office you wanted because. The you know as you say if you're a lawyer you look at this and go up. so it points out Agency means a board commission structure Department officer whether within or subject to review by another agency doesn't matter it's a commission whether it's under review or not by another agency. And then it has these exception of other commission structure so you got Arkansas public service commission Arkansas pollution control and ecology Commission the workers compensation commission. And to be honest with you I can't remember if any of those commissions were by public initiative. I know. I know work comp I mean they were all constitutional provisions. That's clear. But because I know worker's comp was a constitutional provision I have to go check the others but I don't know if they were citizens initiatives. So I'd like to go back and review that and review amendment nineteen of article nineteen rather and and I hear what you're saying because the administrative procedures act is there for oversight. What is for oversight exactly it's it's there for a public purpose. What for appeal purposes I mean it's there this is the procedure you have to go through to challenge the decision. Actually you know and. I don't think we need that so I don't think we need that so if you really don't have an appeal for months. Okay unless we don't follow article. Ninety. You don't there's a strong. So I'd like you if you don't mind to postpone this until the next meeting and maybe media can be here and talk to us to at that time. Because I just want to do my due diligence because I I wasn't aware of this issue when you are a committee that's fine yes I want to bring to your attention because of the you know what in the do the due diligence or when you do all I will appreciate it is I know you will yes I really want you to do it yes. When if you come to a conclusion this different mile along the bike we sure yep I don't listen. We waited to you have to look at your one of A. P. A. I only time we're mention is in one little tiny section I know but if you get if we wait into this I think it's a big mistake if if if the distinction that we should have we should have an exemption because it's already implied in and act thirty nine of nineteen right well what it maybe we need some clean up done. Yeah and just to make it crystal clear and get the legislature to do that can the legislature do that X. without. Public right of referendum. Hi it would almost be like a vote if people sense since I would appreciate it right how. The administrative procedures act. The next next group has to decide how they want to expand the breadth and scope yeah of this commission. Of I don't know how you're going to take something to the people when you don't have a budget there's a reason that you don't have. Yes I mean that's my whole point. We don't. With all due respect and no and I don't we she shall not have died of disagreement she she just says here's bites calendar issues of thanks Westchester just get all. On its face that looks like a smart but when you really dig into it it's not small it in my judgment is not what we need to do we want to maintain the absolute. Dictates and duties responsibilities set out in our arms mandate mandate well I'm not saying I disagree with you I don't know on I just wanna do my due diligence I don't know I'll not agree with you. Bye bye shut so but what I used to sit in the big house no on on on on on the they they sometimes call it the ivory towers. but what I'm what I'm pointing out here is and I don't want to be late for this is there is also an easy solution which is amending the administrative procedures act in cleaning it up. It doesn't go you go to the citizens it's having the legislature put us again as an exemption you can do that that would be great it better yet why can't the the administration procedure group. Just give us an exemption that's always a displayed this exam or if you think it's that important you put it on your just put it on the website yourself that's all we don't don't have us come over right and go Hey you know what we really subservient we need to do this as well but we don't. Well like I say I'm I'm I'm just looking in the wrong setting language and I wanna be sure. I want to read re read article nineteen is what I'm saying I want to re read our constitutional mandate and re read it and I you know this night I probably going to come out on the same side but that that little stickler of me with words. Would like the administrative procedures act to be call wrecked it once you law review ha say she was going to take that face the information one I checked that out. What. The research. Not quite well. Thank you for that growing in the the thing that needs to get simply a resolution requires an easy road of decision and action so for complicated subject is really not that complicated I don't see this make it something that is really not. The question sorry when we talk about over okay we talked about really our dish physicians. Thank you mention jurisdictional court I didn't understand that will the circuit court chair and jurisdiction of would be committed some kind of a crime or civil offense that's that's pretty forfeits development came to see the way our. Yeah or federal court I came and such things that so are over so that really is the citizens we know this and we don't think there's nothing in there that mandates we even have of. Some subservience to the attorney general's office that was done as a favor to us. I mean you know when we were glad to have our. Other assistant Attorney General before the was here of. About point is with all due respect to the governor there's nobody here that I respect you more than the governor for the job a dozen but we're not obligated to go over there and we don't work for any of. We work closely those people that are out there Wondered what we're doing here. And I'd vision. Your of yours in the next year in the next year I really have this vision that this this experiment in citizen participation in government in a meaningful way maybe you gotta remember of is it could be pretty powerful we're pretty powerful when you're set in the the salaries of all these people. Are envisioned citizens could be more involved in a meeting for a without it becoming of of theater and and really have input that makes it worthwhile to the public that they get a feeling that. We're VOL we are say so when something and I see this is a good future for this commission especially with the quality of people that are being reported appointed to the commission I mean that so I thank you all for let me. Tell at all. We adjourned awful is that unanimous. We're second we're John. All.