ALC-Higher Education Subcommittee

You have some remarks. But nothing formal madam chair just a grateful to see folks here and hopefully will be a continuing to put forward good program for you as the Arkansas. Thank you so to date kind of one of the things that I've I'm passionate about is workforce education training what we're doing all of our schools what we're doing with all of our programs we got multitudes of them throughout the state to help all of our citizens be able to be on a trajectory to have a great future so last time we had of folks from living for life. And we had the re skilling. And we had adult education program and so this week we are honored to have Dr Maria Markham here with the who is the director for the department high Division hot what is the division division of higher education and so she's gonna talk to us a little bit about the some of the grant programs that we have here for workforce training as well as of their regional workforce grants so Dr Markham if you would introduce a recognized yourself. You'll be prepared I thank thank you madam chair of Maria Clark and I'm the director for the Arkansas division of higher education and I am so appreciate the opportunity to discuss some of our programs that are geared toward workforce training mercifully I did not prepare a power point for you today but I did provide several handouts I failed to put them in any kind of order when I sent them to be a large they're not listed in your packet in order but I I think that we can follow along the first one that I wanted to point out was exhibit C. five it's the blue page. At this provides a snapshot of the three highlighted programs that I'm gonna talk about today these are the three that are most commonly utilized for workforce training the first two Arkansas future workforce training are specific or workforce talent are specific to our short term credential programs however the Arkansas scholarship challenge scholarship provided by the lottery can also be used for workforce training for credit programs at our at our two and four year institutions I wanted to be sure to include that as well. And the first bullet under each logo that you see there provides a snapshot of of the three highlighted programs in the most recent academic year so those numbers that five hundred and eighty seven for the Arkansas feature that is the number of individual unduplicated students that were served with the Arkansas teacher program workforce challenge we serve six hundred and sixty four individual people with that thirty thousand five hundred and eighty students received the Arkansas academic challenge under under those facts and figures there the purple box that's a historical look those number of awards that you'll see there are duplicated so what that means is most of our students who receive these workforce geared programs received more than one award they're going to receive stackable credentials so they're going to use them for multiple credentials that I may use it for one eight week term to get a certificate and shielded metal arc welding the next semester they may use that for their mig welding course so they they've received multiple awards but it might be the same student counted several times but that is a historical look at how much money we have spent and what we spent or what we awarded in the last year. I would point out that the Arkansas future program is a last dollar scholarship so it pays any remaining out of pocket costs left after other scholarships hello grant any state and federal aid so those of ward amounts have a pretty good range there was some concern when we implemented this program that only students who didn't need financial aid would get financial aid and the students who really need it wouldn't but I did have staff pull some information and sixty percent of the students who received money through Arkansas feature were below that title for threshold so those are students who are Pell eligible that did have financial need so I think that's important that we are not leaving those students out they are benefiting from this program. I'm going to move over to exhibit C. three. And this provides more in depth information on each of these three programs in their eligibility requirements so I'm just gonna hit a few highlights on that and Arkansas future again is that last all or scholarship it is available for any person I like to see anybody breathing air in the State of Arkansas that wants to go into these workforce focus feels going to be eligible for the scholarship they have to have graduated either from an Arkansas GT program home school private school any kind of school in Arkansas or thank you to graduate in another state and as long as I've lived here for three years their eligible just receive these funds I am we have selected programs that these funds are for its for anything that is on the stemless so anything that we have dedicated our we have designated as Stam also anything that is on our regional high demand list and that list is produced by department work for services they look for in demand occupations where we can at feel fairly confident that the students will have jobs waiting on the other end so those it's it's a revolving list and it's growing over time as institutions identify things in their region of the state that are in demand they add programs the list grows. this is general revenue it is the last all or scholarship there's no cap on that so some of our more expensive like our health care programs if you're going into an RN program hell will not pay for all of that so and it does pay for whatever tuition fees books and supplies the cost that's remaining for those students I have up to five semesters that and it could be adults traditional students full time students part time students. Anybody breathing air in the State of Arkansas that's been here for long enough three years or graduate high school there is a monthly mentorship component and that was to benefit students and making connections with other community for their post studies employment opportunities there is ten hours of community service required a semester we did waive that last year due to COVID restrictions most of our institutions have put into place a community service project for the students so they don't have to go out and find it on their own but most of the times those are community based lots of kids get together at the same time so we did wait that last year and there is an accountability portion here we expect the students to reside in the state of Arkansas for at least three years after they completed their their education and be employed within six months of completion course if they go on to continue their education at a university we deferred that until they're out at we have not yet gotten to the point we've had to try to collect on the students and we do not look forward to that because we all know how it is when you try to collect on something that's been converted to a loan especially if they've left the state but that is briefly the Arkansas future grant. Can you was working the other day and education I don't know how many of you were there but one of the things that we were talking about was using the ArFutures grant for the teacher education to be able to I think that's a good example of how we're able to look at using these dollars two for career pathways not just for an individual course or class or whatever but I thought that was and I'm going to highlight what we're doing with educator prep when I talk about regional workforce grants because I think that is a really good example of how we have linked to a lot of different funding opportunities together to get a student from high school all the way into it a teaching role so I'm glad that you pointed that out but yes educator preparation up to an associate degree is covered under our future so at no cost to the student they could get their first two years of a teaching degree. And the workforce challenge scholarship that is another lottery funded scholarships so students can or cannot get back and academic challenge at the same time it is an eight hundred dollar cap on that. But that's per certification so that student could receive this multiple this eight hundred dollar award multiple times if they choose to continue to build upon the certifications that they've already gotten so Arkansas resident they have to receive a high school diploma or equivalency of and then they have to be in one of three specified occupational areas they have to be in industry training which is very broad it could be manufacturing could be robotics there's a lot of things that could be considered industry training healthcare very broad anything from CNA up to an R. in or information technology which is basically anything that you can do with computers going to be considered information technology so this is a non renewable grant that means you don't automatically get it every time just every time you want to enroll in one of these certificate programs you put another application one unique thing about this application we keep this application open year round most of our scholarships you have to apply what July first or Arkansas future there's actually two application periods for fall and spring because a lot of our students at two year colleges start in the spring and this one is open year round so we just ask you to try to give us thirty days before you plan on being in the classroom just so we can get a process but we understand industry needs to get their people into these training sometimes with pretty short so we do believe that application open. I am not going to go through all of the details of the academic challenge scholarships that area of statute is about fifty pages long and I'm happy to answer questions about it but I think a. That's not really what I was asked to do today so I'm going to skip that part. I get a lot of questions when you click over we're gonna made to exhibits C. one and C. two. And those are kind of sick because I get a lot of questions from members and constituents. That their concern that we don't have enough programs that are eligible to receive these funding sources so C. one is a complete list of all of our Arkansas future program approved degrees and certificates at our institution and just to summarize there are one thousand and sixty two credentials that are covered can be fully funded by Arkansas feature and that's a lot and as I said this list grows every year because as we see new new occupations coming demands we automatically Adam or if an institution says we've got something regionally that's going to be really in demand and they can make an argument for that we added they have a plant that's moving in our manufacture and they know they're going to have some in demand occupations we at those so the uptake for Arkansas future is growing as well as the program list C. three. And C. one is organized by institutions so I've got all those subtotal Sir if you're curious like how many programs is might local institution have on the list I can tell you that pretty quickly. C. two. Is like C. one and that is our workforce challenge program list on that so we have seven hundred and fifty four short term credential programs that are eligible for that eight hundred dollar grants we have two hundred and nineteen of those are in health care a hundred and forty eight are in information technology and in three hundred and eighty seven are in industry training manufacturing type short term credentials and those are organized by those three categories and then by institutions so we can look through there pretty quickly and see if your favorite program happens to be on the list. So I have presented all of the exhibits related to the scholarships and I'm gonna pause to take any questions or discuss something further that wasn't clear. Cross amount. Yes go ahead. Thank you senator thank you so much stock market we've been pretty in fact that the eligibility requirements are very inclusive for that and their future workforce challenges just wanna clarify there's no citizenship requirement for students for either of those programs eligibility. They have to be a resident a legal resident okay but not a citizen a legal resident not just an Arkansas resident. A legal Arkansas resident thank you just live in the state they have to be a legal resident. Okay. Those are different things so just a quick a legal permanent resident legal temporary resident what is the citizenship requirement or that that status requirements that's requirement I may have to get back to you on that I know that it's it can't be a temporary citizen okay legal permanent resident yes okay I have to be a legal resident okay thank you so does that usually mean like a one year resident or. Driver's license something like that. Yes I mean I'm yeah I think well yes now Arkansas future they have to be here for three years now they have to have three years of residency in the state so they want to go to a college here though you want to be an in state student you have to live here for certain amount of time and. You could just live in Oklahoma implies an incisive right that's correct okay all right. Missy who else And we did add a couple of categories of students to the Arkansas challenge into governor's distinguished in the last session but those changes have not been made to some of the other scholarships representative Meeks you're recognized. Thank you have a question involves okay manager my and my first question is on the futures program list that you have here I was glancing through here at all the different agrees and what not but I don't see anything from you CA you see a not for now that and that's because the A. doesn't offer an associate's degree okay any certifications lower than the sex great so this is only up to that associate degree level okay all right makes sense yes the other question I have is pertaining to the scholarship lottery do you know what the current percentage of money coming in is being sent back out to scholarships right now you know the numbers. Leslie no I'll have to look at that okay are you're asking like as far as cash flow in and out right right so out of the out of all the money that comes in what percentage of it is is you know twenty percent thirty percent fifteen percent are you asking about net proceeds or total proceeds to lottery total. I'll have to get lottery commission because I'm not sure what they're turning on all that okay seats are only see the net proceeds to come in okay purpose of scholarship thing but I can get both of those numbers for you I did just curious thank you. I can tell you at this point we're warding every eligible student four we have adequate funds to award April eligible students out of the lottery. Senator Eads. Dr thank you madam chair Dr Markham if if the when the schools like on our futures program this standing up a new program what's the time money usually take them where they get can get included on to this program I have a we have an annual update so. But we're we're pretty lenient on that annual update so every athlete every summer every July we get a new the hot jobless from DWS and we automatically make those adjustments we say for instance of nursing wasn't on there now it is a state of nursing programs are not covered. If it's an institution that's starting a brand new programs that they haven't had before and they usually do inclusion request for us at the same time that they propose that program and if we're at a point in our cycle where we can add that so it does not look right in middle of an application period then we added as soon as we can okay okay all right thank you thank you manager. A representative Holcomb thank you madam chair Dr Markham under eligibility requirements see three of the second page the last paragraph students who received funding from workforce challenge and do not successfully complete the program will be allowed to reapply one time is there any any criteria for that and they just drop out real pliers or something we look at. Senate waiting circumstances a kind of house that work I mean basically eating non productive grade so that the student receives a grade below passing or if that student withdrawals from a program we give them one do over and if they if they withdraw twice then they're not gonna be eligible to receive a hundred dollars again. There that's what I was asked for thank you withdrawal with any reason for any reason okay thank you ma'am. It looks like all the questions you go at. So the last exhibit is C. for. And this is there are several pages to see for and this is a history of what you have in previous history of what we have done with our regional workforce grants. So this program was created as entering the temple you're the sponsor for this their workforce initiative active two thousand fifteen and since that time we hi read have issued just shy of thirty eight million dollars in funds for regional workforce grants that is all general revenue. These grants are intended for the sole purpose of improving the quality and responsiveness of workforce programs in each region of the state the first phase of the program the first five years and institutions were invited to propose projects into right field of study so they partner together they develop their own proposals and those refunded we learned a lot of lessons from phase one so we re imagine how those funds are going to flow in phase two and phase two we aligned those potential awards with our most in demand occupations in this state so we specified that all funds have to be dedicated toward pretty broad feels but it could be three healthcare computing transportation or education so that for big fields of study that institutions were asked to propose projects for instead of the institutions proposing what they were going to spend the money for all those brought feels we had industry experts come in from those feels review the programs on the college campus and then they said what they thought that institution needed whether it was improve their faculty upgrade their technology work on their infrastructure modernize their facility whatever those industry experts told us that institution needed that's what we approve that institution to do all those projects had to be short term we didn't want any four and five year windows to complete the projects because these are supposed to be things that are responsive to what the industry needs right and we didn't want like long term planning and it's taking ten years many times by the time you get there what the thing that you wanted to do is no longer that relevant to your industry partner so we allowed for whatever those industry experts recommended for equipment modernization of the facility technology faculty development no would ministry cost no marketing costs and no ongoing costs for staff and so that was. The first part of the base to the second part actually ties really nicely to the education project that was discussed at the last Education Committee meeting I believe it was two weeks ago so we have made seven awards from this regional workforce grant fund to two year colleges in the geographic shortage areas of our state so those communities that are having the hardest time attracting and retaining well qualified educators. so that's the delta and the south so we have seven two year colleges in that region that are partnering with their local hospitals and they're gonna be providing a concurrent program for their eleventh and twelfth graders that stacks into an associate degree at their institution that then stacked into a BSE when they transferred to the four year so for no cost because we're using the resort Force grant to do to program development the technology of transportation whatever it is that that that region needs to support their students a curriculum development any of that and that ends the students can be funded for concurrent challenge which is another scholarship program that we provide and then our future pays their tuition when they get to the two year college so the first for the first two years of their four year degrees fully funded and it starts in the eleventh grade instead of when they matriculated. So that is our approach to the grow your own model we know from our friends at that's the that it's it's hard to attract people to some of these communities and it's better if you can educate a local person to stay in their local community where they have those community connections so that that is our attempt for that so this is a pilot we're gonna see how this works and then we it's possible that we're gonna roll this educator press pop one out into the rest of the state I know most of the institutions would really like to see this. So that is what we have done with making the regional work for string of words you have the full list there but like I said it's just shop thirty eight million dollars since two thousand sixteen I think it's when we actually started making those awards. And I can try to answer questions about the individual programs you can see there are a lot of them so I may not have all of those answers for you today. But I'm going to conclude my prepared remarks and take any questions. So do we have a sense for how many people came out of any of these programs and and ended up going to work. I have a sense for how many people came out of the programs the institutions have reported there the graduated students the students are the economic security report for this now this is This Is required reporting that we did for the regional workforce class so we required them to give us counts of students that were served I don't I'm not able to connect the individual student level data with employment data. I think it is because of interesting after a while to figure out. You know are are removed people ahead and and what is their progress what is their trajectory and from when they kind of start to to because we do we do invest an awful lot of dollars the referring to the scholarship the scholarship recipients to see what they're doing but both both of that the planning grant in the the so if if we blend all that together Sir you know or what what's happening to all those people I guess that's always my it's always been my question what happens to all those people and and who are they and and if I have they've. Help to make the community that they live in better that kind of thing so we we have any we do have some questions representative makes. I guess my question to you manager my my questions come up a follow up on the grants and scholarship is there anyway to determine. Are they being beneficial and and I know maybe you might not be able to do it directly but are if you can't do it directly or other indirect ways where you can always look at a community and say is that community growing is still declining is so that you know the citizens of Arkansas know whether. They're getting bang for the Buck here. That's a really good question we have built in some of that to our strategic plan that we just completed for higher ed it's not specific to one of the scholarship programs but we we did our very very detail supply demand gap analysis for what we thought we were going to need in each region over the next five years and we've got a calculation that we're gonna be short a hundred teachers or you know fifty nurses and so for me the way we know if any of our activities have been successful is if that gap is shrinking right have you were unfilled Unfilled occupational positions than we anticipated so if we are producing more in the right areas and will know because that that shortage that gap will be closing right how about a longitudinal data system and not being able to tell you this kid got this degree and now they're working here in this job that we wanted them to work in that's really. Indirectly it anecdotally the best we can do okay and then my follow up which is somewhat related how are the universities coping with the virus as the mental school to started in what do you kind of hearing on on that front. That's not all related but it. I think that our universities are actually faring pretty well are cases that universities have been lower than we've anticipated we've got a couple of data matches with department of health to look at our vaccination rates for our college students and they were pretty good coming back into fall and we had to use pre enrollment numbers because we didn't have all the student data at that point but if the students who are already enrolled for fall during the first part of August we had good vaccination rates also have heard anecdotally from some of our chancellors and presidents that vaccination rates on or vaccination drives on campus which really well the first couple weeks of school so when kids got back and they realized you know there's gonna be some quarantining and we're going to do all this testing again and people are still this is not over a lot of interest to get the vaccine specially those are living in you know community housing and you know I residence halls so we have continued a really robust testing Regimen all of our student athletes of course have to be tested some of the voluntary testing has you know kind of tapered office as students have been vaccinated and they don't feel the need to test what is often but I think we were pretty well prepared and our institutions have fared better than I thought and we haven't had the need to go virtual yet at any or institutions can have a lot of quarantine so we feel pretty good about our response sounds sounds encouraging thank you. The representative of. Godfrey. Thank you madam chair just briefly and to go back to the education preparation program has got the that's a really great encouraging model I think what you know one of the biggest incentives for kids is getting that course work taking care of and and Page four really I'm wondering if you know if part of that model is and mentorship peace with teachers currently obviously in the classroom and if if kids have the opportunity to kind of get that not just academic and in course work side of things but also that the real life experience of being a teacher particularly in that region in that community and in the schools where they've been working to answer questions I think there's a formal mentorship peas but the students who were involved in this are are being placed in the in the district where there whether involved said they're working with teachers they're in their home district and also know that part of the work was building in as a credential at the pair level so that they can work like once they graduate from high school already have their peer credential they can work in their home district while they're finishing their associate's degree at a higher level paid and if they didn't have the credentials so we're trying to incentivize you know students stay local to work in their their home classrooms and continue that locally it's a part of that Chris Richey at the high school level is getting that that CTA the certified teaching assistant by the end of plan okay that's the plan yes but about thank you thank you Mr. And I did just get a follow up text message on workforce challenges legal Arkansas resident that's how it is future it just resided in Arkansas for three years so it's a bit more lenient on the residency requirement. Representive Cozart thank you madam chair I couldn't go that much to see Mike Schuler might recall questions later join in of just a question quickly on the some of the work force of areas that are you know we have so many that are really needed such as our medical bills and stuff like that and we seen an increase or decrease and those going for these grants. well for the medical we've seen an increase in agreed yeah and if if like if you look at the Arkansas Peter grant at least almost half of those are medical students of some kind of healthcare occupation are there any other areas that are just really growing Thank you stand out you know. R. as this is a report just came out yesterday and and we we Senate upon enrollment over the last you know year due to the a lot of things but the pandemic as part of it so I don't know that anything is really growing right now because we have seen a decline the share though is growing in those medical occupations for sure and then at really all of our workforce programs have have seen a bit of an increase right that's what we're looking for yeah that's what we want I mean that's the design is to steer students toward occupations that have employment on the other end thank you thank you Mr. Me Senator Hammer thank you on the M. and maybe addresses I apologize if you get or you can just dismiss me but did you have you talked about retain age of faculty like for example in the nursing field where they're leaving their faculty positions to go for the higher paying jobs that are now out there in did you talk about any of that at all I did not with the chair allow okay they'll hand because it's an issue okay so all the money that's being given to all the programs. Is any of the money or is there any money out there that can address the faculty shortage situation I'm on there are very specifically to the medical field because with traveling nursing rage and people leaving the faculty positions is our plan from your per from your position to address that even if it means going and changing within the institutional structure that faculty members to be paid more because of the critical demand at so there's a lot of problems to the answer to that question the scholarships are for students so that goes to the institution to be expensed on operational purposes however that institution. So it seems necessary to make those allocations and the money for regional workforce grants do not apply faculty that's for a quick minute infrastructure capital investment to modernize those technical programs from an institutional perspective. They're already allowed to pay differentials for faculty sometimes that can be a very political call a conversation to have on a college campus on whether or not you should be able to you should pay faculty in certain areas differentials for teaching in those high demand hard to find areas but that's really an institutional of finance decision to make that's a leadership decision on what is an appropriate salary for appropriate content credential or for seven it's very hard to attract and again it can get you can get political on a college campus when you start having those conversations about who deserves to be paid more among faculty but you know if you look in our A compensation plan. There's a lot out of Max for faculty members and it's really really high but the institutions are going to be placing ranges on what they pay faculty and many times they just try to stay in line with what other faculty are paid so there's no special revenue source out there to supplement and augment faculty members in the medical field and it's really about what the institution prioritizes. You may not want to ask this question but do you do you think that given. Because I think and I can understand the political turf war if you've got a engineering professor verses a. A nursing professor. But if we all don't have our health nothing else matters and if you don't have instructors out there so how do you resolve the political turf war. When order or do we just need to leave that among institutions to resolve or how you go about addressing that given the environment that we're in with pandemic I think you have to leave it to the institutions but it's it's a business decision if you want your your medical programs to be viable and you want to be able to serve the students within those programs you have to be able to track qualified faculty and retain them. Okay and then last thing is on any of the grant money simulator labs or of a topic of discussion. Do you know of any money that's out there or can this money be used or again as it left up to the individual institution if they're going to pick a of a piece of machinery to teach you know of engineering versus a sim lab teach nursing is that gonna be left up to the institution or or his or anything out there for the same level so the regional workforce grant face to that we just put out it's in your exhibit C. for. It is in the face to part one which is the fourth page Jan go see healthcare is listed we just spent three point four million dollars for healthcare and that was all sim lab. Did you place those. What was the strategy for you place of a we invited each of our institutions to have their programs reviewed by industry experts so people from their hospitals we also had the state board of nursing home in interview and they recommended upgrades and modernizations to their some laps and we are honored actually every request that came in sorry that is the total recommendation from the industry experts in those areas on how to improve their simulation labs thank you thank major. So I think this is the issue because I've I've talked to a couple places where they've had some really good programs with a lot of money spent on equipment and things and then they expect the instructor to. Or for thirty five thousand dollars a year which just angle happen and and so we've we've waste a lot of of money. We got a lot of good equipment sitting there and we have possible students but we don't have instructors because we we campaign so I'm glad to know that it's really that a business decision it isn't something that we can resolve here but the reality is it's kinda even in K. through twelve if you pay a cybersecurity instructor more than with that expertise they need to an English teacher and that is a political thing inside of school system it is and it's also you know that the other side of that business decision is it's it's very inexpensive to teach an auditorium of a hundred kids composition one hi like the cost per kid is really really low it's very expensive to teach five students one of these hi tec nine occupations if that's all you have so when you have to divide the cost of that instructor among a much smaller population of students that's the other side it's it's some point does is it even worth the investment by the institution because such a small number of students can be served so I'm not knocking no you know either of those decisions just you make the decision you're going to have a nursing program you can invest in the technology in your recruit students you have to have qualified faculty and to get those yet to compensate them fairly so it's probably a larger discussion that we need to have I don't know how it can be resolved but I think it's an issue we need to talk about because there are a lot of really great opportunities for future. Employment for some of our our citizens but if you can't set the program up for those future opportunities because you can't afford to pay the instructor I can't buy the equipment then we we've got really got a problem. Otherwise what we do is we keep on doing the same thing we've been doing for twenty years and think it's successful so we have any more questions anymore thoughts ideas. I will have one back here somebody out there Michael. Hello I'm sorry Holcomb is that you know. Okay all right. Who who's in eighty five. I'll get you again okay. Go ahead. You're you asked okay certainly. Of course that's what we're here for stock. Some of the some of the programs and you just kind of hit on it would maybe think about it. Some of the degree programs and I'm I'm not I'm just going to focus on nursing because it's the hot topic one some of the programs have a lot of courses in them that seem to the degree that they're trying to get on necessary in order to get that grief for example you know in a nursing degree if you're requiring them to take art or something like that the relevancy to get him out the door as quick as we can to get him into a work force that desperately needs the employees in specific areas is is challenging some times drivers of student debt keeps amend the school longer than to the degree program they want to get. What about fast tracking some programs to where we can eliminate some of the. Nonessential to the degree shall we get him out the door quicker getting in the work force faster even if it comes at the expense of the school who may lose twenty twenty four hours or you got schools that are giving concurrent credit they get up to university in the university says you know what we're not going to accept that we want you to repeat that class but we're going to teach you the way we want to teach you which all of a sudden now all the concurrent credit means nothing to the to the student. That to me those are too challenging areas we run a talk we need to talk about. And those are two areas that if I am aware of that I would handle pretty quickly because we do not want students taking credits that they don't need for their degree for the nursing programs some of our nursing programs have completely eliminated prerequisites and they have integrated those into their actual program but as someone who has worked with the nursing programs be closely the only three repair requisites for that are anatomy and feel that is the ology and medical terminology so we we don't have any fluff a nursing if there are others I would love to look at those that have additional general education taught courses that are barriers to completion on the concurrent credit side it is against statute for a university to reject the concurrent credit because they don't they want the student to retake that so it's an axe course it's guaranteed for transfer it has to be accepted and applied as the course the transfers. Okay we'll visit offline because among personal straight you want to call up here and we'll have one of those questions but back to the other the standardization so because are not RT is it not that each university can. Determine on their own. What course requirements are going to be needed in order to graduate from that institution take are in for a broker for example do the individual institutions have the latitude to include things or exclude things in order to get that student ready to graduate say with the R. and degree. To an extent. Would be good to standardize it across the board so that whether regards whatever school you go to here is the minimum expectations across the board so that you you know exactly what's going to take you to get out the door yes so the foreign is another one that is. Almost completely standardized because a lot of the institutions are now part of that consortium for real nursing so the foreign program looks the same at all institutions when you start getting up into a baccalaureate level degree and there's a little more. A discrepancy between what what institution may be requiring that another. Because there are more university. Liberal arts general education courses that go into a baccalaureate degree. Then you know what are and are not be a program. Okay all right thank you manager fled to. Hey. I guess that's all the questions. Thank you so very much we appreciate all the information we'll have you back again because we'll probably need to ask the same questions and hear the same things over again takes us a while. So representative would occur if you any final closing remarks thank you very much everybody for showing up rolling a little bit smarter. And Dr Martin thank you very much for being here Preciado. And we are turned.