State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs - House and Senate

Meeting come to order. And appreciate everybody for being here today looks like we've got a real bust crown and appreciate all the work that members are putting into this chairman Josh do you have anything you'd like to say before we get started today. Thank you Mr chairman yesterday we've got some special college we've got a special group in the audience today that I would like to recognize this time is my honor to welcome welcome ray James and his class of interpreters students from UALR we know that everyone who becomes a cop it in American Sign Language makes Arkansas a better place for deaf people to Leo and I thank you very much and we are honored with your presence if you would would you please stand. That's all I got Mr thank you thank you very much chairman Tosh appreciate that we do welcome you all here excited to have you today. All members we've already talked about the process and all that during the last meeting and so what would like to do is is get right into presentation of the various maps and with that I'd like to recognize Senator bart Hester for presentation of Senate bill seven to one Senator Hester you're recognized. Thank you Senator Rapert hunt thank you members for a for entertaining us with me here for a few minutes. So the the instruction that was given to be L. R. when this map was driven or was dramas very very simple it said Droste map that is rings for districts as concise as possible with splitting as fewer counties as possible that's it no more personal bias no with my colleague wants this as simple as instructions is good and this is what exactly what came back. And I like this method because it does that I think it's fair to all people of Arkansas rather you live in Clay County or Miller county or Chico county you're not you're you're having a geographical advantage for access to your congressman. If you look at the next page. You see how how it stacks up versus our current drawn maps so if you know from ten years ago clearly there was some Significant amounts of gamesmanship the one on ten years ago and then if you look back to the current map that we have how how simple it is and again how I think how of a fair and advantageous is is to all our Kansans. The deviations are actually very very good in the in the first districts point one five the second after point Foro. The third district is a negative point nine one and I think again that's appropriate we all know that the third district up in Northwest Arkansas is growing quite rapidly and I would assume by the second quarter of twenty twenty two that that would be that would be leveled out. And then the fourth district is point six seven. And something that we're clearly going to discuss today are out imagine we would is it's down to just putting one county in that have to be Pulaski County and I know so my colleagues I appreciate that but the reality is plastic counties most populous county and it happens to be the center of the state so when you're working off the bases surely of geography that's how that works out and I'm happy to answer any questions. Right Senator Hester and I make mention of the for this a good place to make mention there is one extra sheet that all of you saw here in a sea of their senator garner over there we we did go ahead and put down here senator garner the population statistics using the twenty eleven maps I think it's worth pointing out it actually does it square with what Senator Hester just stated this is got the four districts and shows the population differences from the ten census to the twenty census shows a loss of twelve thousand three hundred eighty in district one shows a gain in district two of forty thousand one ninety nine gaining three of a hundred and ten thousand one hundred eighty eight and then district for a loss of forty two thousand four hundred and one so you see very clearly the population shifts that are going on members do you have any questions for Senator Hester related this I've got some people chiming in now did number eighty three looks like leftist I thought we had someone else but they counted out so Senator Tucker is that you. Yes Mr that's me thank you. And thank you Senator Hester I just want to thank you yesterday for answer my call about this and and for me more detailed version of the map particularly Pulaski County that's really want to follow up on on that topic obviously Pulaski County is divided into three different congressional districts in this map and I'm just curious for the thought process on that and and also if you looked at trying to keep it whole and what adjustments might have been made and that's just generally the issue I'm interested in sure well Senator Tucker I plus the county was split three ways because I couldn't figure out how to get the third down there to do it for. You know that the line is drawn. About a block around my house which I'm not I'm trying to take personally there's international. Now I'm I'm just giving you a hard time of course but but is there is there any thought to as to send in all sincerity why it was or sure no I'll just go back to you don't obviously plus accounts just in the center of the state and when you're working off geography like we said the instructions were surely based on can we get for district as concise as possible it happens to you know you go to the center of the state and happens to be the most popular so it's easiest to help level out for for just. All right okay thank you. Senator Tucker your point you know I remember a few years ago when I was representing part or all of seven counties. In my district which is the largest your graphical district in the state Senate and and I actually had to deal with the fact that the Attorney General on the Democrat governor at the time cut me away from my entire electorate left me with one single ballot box so I can see where you might be a little sensitive all right. It yes. I really don't know that you're back on we'll get you on again here. I'm really just give my friend Senator Hester our time off just for the record I want to buy think it was making any sort of accusation about I'd doesn't know she gave me a good opportunity for history reminder there Get twenty three and I'm not sure who sitting in it but Chesterfield. Senator Chesterfield yes and thank you for taking up senator Johnson's role as the historian of the. A large thank you so much for doing your best. And I think I'll just out there already built you so just want you to know thank you for doing your best and I truly appreciate the effort. You're welcome thank I'm not gonna slice and dice I guess my savior okay. All right I believe in people are chairman in and out of this a quicker can't keep you up so if you got a comment leave yourself up I think people are deciding not to say something after a few seconds but I do have one remaining which is Senator Pitsch. Thank you Mr chairman Senator Hester thank you for putting this together and I like the idea it's based on counties being made whole. If you have a proposal though or I guess someone your thoughts if there was a proposal that had every County hole that find favor in your eyes as well. Well I I think I've seen a lot of maps a lot ideas that I've that I've liked I do not know that it is possible to draw a realistic map that doesn't split at least one or more counties because I think we split for more last time and so I don't know that it's reality well I appreciate that you got down to so few thank you for their for. All right senator garner. I was chairman Senator Hester appreciate brings maps coming things once you see what a fair and equitable map looks like you kind of realize the situation we've been in Arkansas for last ten years from the gerrymandering a two thousand eleven this last council split is logical as it is in the center of the state it's fair AS in is a county that is growing in population by year so each county still separate things and if you compare this back to two thousand eleven when that gerrymandered kind of destruction that was released on Arkansas how many counties are split backed your believe it's five or six a split from Jefferson County from other counties compared will is one that is in the sooner state you think this is more fair more equitable for all our Kansans in your map I think it's no doubt it is fair to all our cans and and it's easier for each county right I mean it's it's not that difficult to split up the county on election day but like I say we have four five or six that were split last time down to one this is clearly a fair map and anyone using basic logic the look at this map can see that it was not your Maynard it's very fair map thank you. Right. Members you have any other questions for Senator Hester on his proposed maps. Singer from the member Senator Hester I've got a question on that can you to remind us how many counties are currently split in the current congressional districts. I believe that there are four it could possibly five or six based on what the Senator garnets five five is currently split I recall a because I was raised around at that time if I'm sure you've had questions about this and considerations I can recall back at the last time that we went through this process when we were dealing with what was called the fate bill finger. There was no hesitancy I believe and some people to try to create such a monster. And so it with the is it fair to say that in and again I think it's good that you have created homogeneous districts geographically manageable is it fair to also say that the county that ends up being split actually has an advantage because they might have three congressmen representing them rather than just one. I think it's a it's a very fair perspective right if if if the county had three different congressmen caring about issues is important of them in the port of bridge any type of federal highway funding is available I having three congressman's a significant advantage and clearly with the airforce base out here they're doing a great job representing it but having three pulling on that rope would be a significant advantage for Pulaski County okay I've got two more this champion and then we'll we'll move on to the next one fifty six a don't have your name I'm sorry it's L. Elliott. I I just been listening trying to decide we're having a really serious conversation about this I walked in a little bit late US senator so I apologize for that but just I just recall a few days ago we were talking about Keep in the folks who have row crops together and the folks who have a timber interest and there's a lot of discussion about well but if those folks in the same district they're going to be better off because they have two people representing them. And it seems the consensus came to no they won't because we need somebody concentrating on those interest especially for the people with the row crops few days later I was trying to decide if this is really serious that all of us in Pulaski County might be better off because we have three people representing us and that was broken up into these parts. And I don't know if that's the case and I. E. hope that's the case that people are serious about the I'll course certainly am not but the most important thing from my perspective the thing I want to get on the table as you know there were some people who did not like the fat bill finger and push back that is not the case that everybody was excited about it because if they work it would if passed. It did not. And the other thing is if we start down a path of we're going to re litigate everything that happened ten years ago and ten years from now we're re litigated again we always say that we learn from the past and just because you can doesn't mean you should do it that's the reason the fat finger does not exist because just because people could have they did not do it because it was not the thing to do not the right thing to do. So I just have to put on the table I'm a little concerned that we're going to go see mainly going to go through the process of re litigated and doing some getting back at something we don't like from ten years ago. We're a book that I whatever we bring before this body I hope is something that is that is serious and based in something other than it's our turn now we're going to get back at you because I don't think that's what we are I'm not saying that's what you're about Senator Hester I'm not saying that at all you have a question senator I do have a question don't you think we can do better than that. So and I and I don't even care for an answer you know but will I will I will respond thank you said it and I think there's a hundred thirty five of us a hundred thirty five as five different opinion based on these maps to be drawn on economic basis for agriculture basis I drew this map based your early often geography and what seems to be reasonable and logical. And I think you might be able to say this is a question while there may be people against it surely based on geography as well that it might there is an illogical side to it as well I thank you colleagues on both sides of the aisle against it for that very reason and and thank you Mr chair thank you senator. Senator Chesterfield thank your back I am Because. Living in Pulaski County we have a number of senators. because of the size of the district. What people don't know clearly who to call sometimes. Is it in Senator English is district is in Senator hills district is it in my district is adding senator Hammer district that's where my concern is with this because when people need. To reach out to their congressperson they need to know who that is and that's my major concern about speeding up any of the counties because people need to access government and nothing should be done that would preclude that from happening in a sensible and logical way having three representatives in Pulaski County will make it difficult for individuals. Who are not in the know like many of us down here but how to reach out to everybody is that is supposed to represent them. that is my major concern my question is I'm do you not understand that concern no I understand that concern in my response would be all over the state of Arkansas regards regards were these lines are there's gonna be somebody across the street a different district or across the cattle master to different districts and so if you have a district that is split up into three congresspersons which we've never had before in my that I believe has it ever happened before I do not know okay well it didn't happen ten years ago I don't believe are you aware of that I'm not all right well thank you so much and thank you Mr chair or allowing me to ask questions Senator I just wish you spoke up and said that all about Perry County ten years ago which ended up on the most least population counties in the state is Perry County. Ended up with for I've got the floor at this point. The least popular the least population counties in the entire state of Arkansas is Perry County Arkansas. And that was carved up before between four different state representatives. And two different state senators. And so all of that discussion it was just had could have just as well taken up and been had for them I've got Senator Garner now. Thank you Mr infected This geographical fairness of your map I think right now in the current map on the fourth district and if you look at that my sister I live about ten minutes away from losing in a border in the forfeiture goes all the way up to near back on your Carroll County look at the first district if you live down Chicot County it goes all the way up to Memphis and west Memphis under your map you aren't you condensing the time both ends miles and space that people are actually represented because they're in a smaller district that is more fair and less further and spread out than we currently are. Absolutely thank you. All right. Senator Tucker I will take you to one more round of that we're gonna move on to the next match Senator Tucker thank you sure I'll be brief a lot of the comments about Pulaski County being split to this point have focused on the county which is all right and good I thought it was important to specifically mention at this map all it not only divides Pulaski County three different congressional districts actually devise the City of Little Rock into two different congressional districts which is. Also objectionable to me personally in my one out of one hundred thirty fifth opinion and I just want to throw that out to you and see if you have any response to that but I that's an objection to me that's important and and needed to be made. That's a very fair objection which we spoke about yesterday my intent with this map was to be able to sit here in front of you and say after this is provided by B. L. R. there were no changes made to it at I could be very agreeable to moving that line up to the you know having the river separating keep in Little Rock a whole we're gonna have these discussions and talk about it but very open to that understanding of that and certainly natural boundary maybe even eliminate some center Chesterfield concerns as well Senator Hester is it fair to say that Perry County Arkansas with ten thousand people have an interest together is ten thousand folks the State of Arkansas that would be fair would not be fair to say that the same arguments is being made right now might pertain to set to Perry County Arkansas which is disenfranchised to be able to ever. Elect someone from their county when you split them between four different state representative districts in the state that sounds fairs will same thing as it relates to the state senators would not be true yes yes Sir okay we've got to for people to speak for against this Senator Hester we thank you for your presentation of people have a question for you later we come back I've got first on the list Charles caps. Charles we welcome you to come enters in the present your statements the committee I've got four people here so just to be clear of got Charles caps. I'm sorry three on that one okay just three Richard Kendall and shell Britain so be prepared after wrist cast finishes would you please state your name and who you represent the record Sir I'm Charles caps on former judge of Lincoln County okay. you're recognized Sir I wanna thank you all for allowing me to come in I just have a personal some personal comments to make in about. The difference between the first and the fourth congressional district. we were in the fourth district several the last time course of this time there are. Schemidt yelp fourth so they wanna moves back and forth from the first. But now we have a good working relationship with law congressman Crawford. He Stay in touch with me in my office and all the mayor she worked with this of diligently and if we ever had a problem. He was very take care of it. And he's a very knowledgeable person about agriculture. In our county is largely a row crop. We do have some timber and a little livestock but. All biggest part of our income comes from farming. And I like I say that he's a used District in district want to made up of a large farming activities and they stay up with it and I. Misinformed and and help us and not up everywhere that that they can In our industry of of row crop. In court like I say district four is largely camber railroad crop livestock. And We have a lot of different problems that it takes legislative active just to work on these problems and I. Congressman Crawford he works without row crop so you deal with it more so than timbre and the very good at what he does and and we have a very. Personal relationship with them because of his close work with this and anybody and most anyone that works with someone in our it's a long with appreciates their work they hate to lose on and all right and I just take the rest of to lose a. Hammers are our congressmen and that is. Up to date on everything the does and does a great job and and like I say I think the people of Lincoln County will hate to lose him but I know that I would recommend to do a good job too but That's our concerns down there that the. That would only someone that's very personal to us thank you very much for coming and presenting your comments represent Ladyman is this a question for Mr caps. Okay you're recognized Sir thank you Mister chairman of Mr caps My question you've heard us talk here in our last meeting we talked about this about being able to be represented by a representative that is a long distance away yes and it's been brought up the that's difficult maybe that can be done effectively. So representative Crawford is now up in. My neck of the woods way up in northeast Arkansas you're quite a ways but you feel like that he represents the people in your county. The effectively yes yes he does he come he comes down as a it is a person visits with the C. meets with the mayors of towns and with the judging and and discussions and discussions problems and not and he has a office in Dumas That we have access to and most everybody. Politicians down it where someone has his phone number and all we got to do is call him and and Health we work on the problem so that was going to be a head on for my Mr chairman of so you and the representatives staff use electronic means right they're not always physically there in your county yes but they keep in touch through the electronic means is that correct yes. Thank you Sir. Thank you. Members saying no other questions or any other comments Mr gaps no I just thank you for the time to convert a lot of things I like discussed but it be is rehashing old things okay thank you thank you Sir we appreciate you being part of the process. Like ILECs Richard Gendel. Good afternoon Mr channel with a full that Mike real close it's been a little bit weak so if you pull the Mike closer it'll help everybody seven if you would please state your name and who you represent for the record Sir Richard tend bill that the state county jail nice to have you here judge Richard thank you we welcome your comments all right I have a little problem with. Basing our division of the county's own geography hi thank you we need to be more attuned. To what works for different counties as much as possible I feel like to agriculture. Needs to be alive I feel like to. The the people over west need to be aligned as tree. People are in of the lumber business I don't think that. They have the same problems we do. One I must tell you a little story try to keep short again but in seventy nine I know skews me nineteen twenty nineteen. The state county has a fluid Arkansas River we weren't the only ones by the way but it's Arkansas River back to and we had a fluid and the they give the governor appointed a committee to look. The lady in the system and state Arkansas. I was calling to speak it the second meeting that they had. And my wife and I showed up and they. Started their meeting. And they were talking about. How they were going to have enough people to go around to all the. Ladies and the state of Arkansas which are numerous many months. And I decided probably best break up into two or three faithful and different vehicles and. And divide out the ways for them and smaller amounts to life felt they could attack it better that way. And this one gentleman over the side of the room. Said. Humbled to be recognized because I will tell you know what I think we should do. And he said. That he thinks that they should go to the highly populated areas. Check their lives L.. Take some of necessary. And then go to the industrial areas. There were close to levy fix their ways. And the farmers could defend for them say. My wife was sitting right over here. I didn't know made a move but I must have because delay know what she said Richard too low. And I was very they have to. Well like I have a roof. I found out later that this gentleman was from the other side of the state and that's to do with agriculture. Knew very little about the Mississippi River Arkansas River or any of that. But. But I got up to speak I lasted about three fourths of the time that I planned on speaking. with what I had put before my sale. And. I said no I've got to say so and I corrected the gentleman told me and. That that he shouldn't have that outlook as far as telling the. Agriculture. Is not as important as industry and to say County agriculture is are in. We are ninety percent error code. I don't see how. Breaking agriculture of. In two to three groups. Is going to help. Counties like this a. Hansika. We're. Positively always air cooled. I thank the we're getting away from the old adage about when something works. I'm not sure what you all are looking at. As far as. The representative will but we too are very satisfied. Representative Karl. He has been well of its not he is doing a lot of it is. A decent candidates had a whole lot of disasters lately we've had in twenty nineteen we had the fluid then kill with Jamie and then we had another fluid twenty two inches running back in the following spring of this year so we've had our share of those type of things and he's been there. Hi we have no problem with that whatsoever in his or. Okay that's all all right thank you judge appreciate that Senator Garner believe as questions thank you how long have you lived in a shake out of here lesser level on those room sure far left as a one time on the far left. How about leaving the show again yes Sir. All well six of the Senate. So you were there whenever the to show a county used to traditionally being the fourth district I look at the maps and since nineteen seventy two that I could find J. county was traditionally in the fourth district the southern part of the state there wasn't to these last maps is re drawn so I mean I'll zero crop and was huge back during the seventies own from even further own so do you think just the old way was ineffective compared to the new way you prefer the new way what's kind of your thought process on their. I'm not really sure about seventy two I won that much into politics then. I do know that what we've had in the last twenty years. As. In. Well I say that last ten or fifteen years there's been your. I don't I don't recall. I don't recall that former Sir no thank you Sir. Representive Ladyman I think you've got another question and I've got representative Payton after that thank you Mr chair. Mr Talat you talk about the floods and I'm glad you brought that up in the levees I grew up in Clay County which is about as for you can get from the state county in Arkansas any Clay County we had we have six rivers if I remember correctly and flooding is a big issue. And as those rivers flow south you're at the bottom hand and there are a lot bigger down there they flow into bigger rivers so flooding is probably worse for you than it was for Clay County so that's a commonality all the way up and down the Mississippi Delta. So does that make you feel closer to Clay County or people or farmers or people in Clay County then two people say over in garland county. Yes our way is like you say commonality is something the rivers will or what we share of specially ones on the Mississippi River the one right that all the way only age of Arkansas What happens with our fluid as the last big flood in twenty nineteen with the Mississippi River was so full the Arkansas River couldn't. Open up a lead in the. Thank you. If we have had better flow in Mississippi River Arkansas River would in fact our Levi's never get. But as it turns out. By we had to endure the fluid until discovery one that little bit and money to the water coming from up north clear. Representative Payton. Thank you Mr I'm over here to your left Sir so I grew up in rural Arkansas live on my great great great grandfather's homestead and I'm an auctioneer and I'm a car dealer I'm just curious what other types of commerce or professions you think would be well served to be consolidated into one representative or one Senator one congressman because it would seem to me that. The most professions you know. They benefit from having a multitude or representation. I know these lobbyist in Little Rock you know they don't want to just talk to one representive or one Senator when you have a trade association they don't just want to talk to everyone they want to talk to many of us so I don't understand why agriculture which is much broader than row crop agriculture you know covers a lot more than just real property why why is it that the row crops thank that they would benefit from consolidating their. Representation to one out of four hundred and thirty five and Washington DC. I would say that the southern part of Arkansas. Especially. Is made up of two main segments you're either raising a row crop or you're raising. Three. there are other things of course involved but I would say those two Clark. I have. I have gotten more so a very. Rise. Never. For I can registry in my yard I'd I just I don't know anything about three. So. Hey somebody the represents the US government Arkansas comes to. The state county and will meet. Placing of something about agriculture no that's what we're by. So if I get a follow up Mr yes Sir I just wanna make sure you understand we reelect these congressmen every two years there's no guarantee that. crop congressman Crawford's going to be re elected every two years and you definitely don't have an influence in whichever district you're in on whose elected the next term. I'm I understand having a preference to have a representative that understands your business your commerce. The row cropping but I mean regardless of which congressional district you end up in. Your votes will affect who is chosen to be that representative and how well they represent you are or how well qualified they are your site. So does that not. If you're living in a shared cultural district thank you favors more odds of a. Representative being elected that knows something about agriculture at least people who collect them are going to thank you know something about a. Yeah I do I do think that with looking at this map it seems like geographically there's a lot of agriculture in this map. On the whole state. Is fairly directed towards agriculture but I'll leave it there thank you Mr all right agriculture is our biggest crop over that's true but most of it. That we sale comes from. The teachers that round. The Bill. Judge tendo thank you so much for appreciate your comments okay of got one last person on this map shall be written. But. Would you you need to hit again it was already on there you go my name is Richelle Britain I'm a I I live in Jacksonville and I'm here my own interest as a as a resident of Pulaski County. Okay great you're recognized for your comments some of the the problem I have is I am shocked seeing all these maps that want to divide Pulaski County as many as three way. Whatever happened to communities of interest just like the. Two spoke before me thank you there they see their agricultural interests divided by this map. What about Pulaski County. What is or isn't Irvin County. With the violence a lot of us believe that the at the the reason for it has absolutely nothing to do with that that it has to do with. Divvying up the pack the the power base of a certain political party. That's that which and I believe. That alone increases the risk that the whole thing is going to be struck down not just because of and and it it won't even be a gerrymandering charge the charge I remind this body of of the Arkansas Supreme Court decisions in Welsby revere and Ricard KV state. Those those cases strongly suggest the entire extended session is unconstitutional. In now if the event of a nine map. No the help people may let go but if it Davis it makes a lot of people mad. I think that's very good likely had the support the Arkansas Supreme Court will strike it down isn't as passed in an illegal session in addition to not. That and I am now a licensed attorney so I can I I have I have I have a little. The little bit little bit of credentials to say that but I think it's going I thank you. At the very least you may end up having come back another special session to do an act to even if you turn around and re enact the map that you're gonna have a lot of problems if it bigger your we have a lot of problems if you go divvying up Pulaski County this way. Okay that's all I have to say here all right representative Richmond. Yes ma'am over here okay. Where your resident state of Arkansas ten years ago yes I was did you come in and speak when the other counties were divided up a I did not but those are some partial okay thanks partial. No Way divided three ways. Well actually for the record of Perry County was divided four ways in our state representative destruction to launch the state Senate thank you and that's not in that but not for but not for congressional districts all of it has to do representation but we appreciate your comments or state representative state representatives and state senators and there are congressional map right members of Congress. Yes but everywhere in the United States system a population thank your comments miss Britain we appreciate it. Members will recognize the next map representive Murdock. You're recognized for house bill nineteen sixty two Sir. Thank you. Thank you chairman Yasser. To the Committee thank you for allowing me to present this map of I enjoyed listening. To the previous testimony as it relates to my colleague and friend senator Hester is mapped and the others presented previously I am happy to bring you the solution to all of that. I guess you're just wearing your head there if you do if you if you reference. My map in that I'll leave everyone of the members unnamed but he congratulated me as I approached as I walked in the building this morning I into the quiet room back there. He said to me quote. I didn't think it was possible. That a map. Could be devised this what. It's a few more comecei may but I'll include. In and seriously what this map does. For the state of Arkansas and I think all that is involved is it meets the legal statutes and the as it relates to redistricting is split zero cap makes it so we would we take away any of that conversation it keeps them all whole is fair whether you live in Washington County or Lee County it gives representation it addresses diversity of our state it includes everybody give everybody the opportunity to be represented. As a percentile how many people a the population is in this state for that demographic. The deviations as I've mentioned that the state statutorily it meets the requirements the legal requirements of all the districts are concise. it even keeps those of like interests together this is a a map then again up I think as you look at it if we look at it with open mind provides of all the tennis necessary for a good in whole and complete map that can withstand any legal challenge I'll take any questions. All right thank you more recognized they're gonna give me the name here. Regis sixty six. Okay representative Pilkington thank you chair after representative Murdock to the DNC draw this map for you know. No seems like they did no no is so the the map is if you look at the map it's that you mention of political if you will party affiliation the the map does not allow for a majority of Democrats to be elected as you said so it's not a DNC map and all. It may be because only possibility of one that that becomes an issue I think that's not an issue I think is an answer to a previous problem. Members you have any other questions representative Murdock I don't see anyone listed as pretty good yes it is. Good effort good map or bank Murdock thank you for offering that I do have it looks like one person that signed up to speak on the map so unless you have anything else will take that testimony. I don't have a full first name I've got J. F. valley. Well if you would please state your name for the record who you represent Sir. Good evening it up to each of you I am James valley. And I don't come in a representative capacity other than my own I'm from Helena Arkansas I have served in many capacities over the years I was on the minds of the chain commission appointed by the governor Huckabee may have homeless on for five years I was just on the peace and Phyllis council for years of impressive losses nineteen ninety five Hammer name print headlines time to. the lower about that part I came today and I appreciate the effort by each and every member here and the staff and all this being done this is certainly a serious venture that we embark upon to draw these congressional districts. I don't want to be too ephemeral that is temporary what about who's going to represent homie a customer not promised to any of us and so. The current representatives maybe don't rate up. But they might be called off of this life before the next election so what we have to think through the long term well these districts are good and effective all of the people and one of the things I've noticed from watching the meeting on video on Monday or Tuesday whenever it doesn't mean walls and today is a does not been must talk about black folks of my notice in this state and I one of. I want Aaliya. The thing about us. About black representation thing about my notice think about not splitting black voters up in such a way that that impact is minimized that's part of the reason we had beta versus car in nineteen sixty two by the way I'm a lawyer that led to one man one vote and one man one vote in this instance the critical part I think represent remote out to map meets all of that in that each county is made whole one of the criticisms of the map from Joan over here to the right I can't I don't know his name but I see. Was that Madison Carroll County want to be together well my road map addresses that that was something about timber crop in real property for being together Marat map addresses that those complaint I think from Mr Chesterfield's Senate just feels human and senator Elliots about divide Pulaski County well Pulaski County is holding in this map of this map allows in that second congressional district of the drone an opportunity to elect. A Republican or Democrat if a man or woman black white full of. It is the only one that district is the only competitive district that I've seen in any of these maps. Live in the sense that in in person from in part for women at the way these all the drama very likely according to the the data and this mass of data driven understand that and I've driven by when pressed about a date the date as suggested all of these maps are heavily in favour of the Republican Party I'm not anti Republican Party pro democratic pods will be fast. And I certainly come here from Phillips County which traditionally both Democrat but I come from Phyllis kind I'm was elected as an independent. In the last offices that I served in and the point is up we get into litigation people says all these maps larock said It nearby before said that the mass will survive. Of of a challenging course and I would hope we would you have to worry about sounds and court if we follow all of the redistricting principles that we will fair to all of the people who are impacted by the that we thought long term about who was going to be impacted and one other thing I've heard people mention. This thing about the second or third district northwest Arkansas we should have fewer people in there because that area is likely to grow and then the gentleman over here said well it doesn't go up like this. I think you have to draw a map based on the number that they are we draw the maps. And then you make all the consideration at any other time if they ought to be made and of. This one other thing the deviation I haven't heard about talk about the deviation dismissal will draw in the first of the district I think the negative deviation is a couple hundred and the second and the third of the island negative couple hundred and then the weather the the first second and for a deviation of a negative a couple hundred people let's just say three hundred people. People of seven hundred fifty two thousand in the third is a positive deviation is over by two thousand three hundred eighty five people very my new. deviations it's a good map. And that's I would hope that it will give be given serious consideration and I would hope also the going forward to to discuss me and the people that look like me in that the members of the state as you're considering what you going to do in this congressional redistricting F. and with that I appreciate the opportunity to be here and to speak for this map and certainly if there's been an. Questions you may have I stand ready to try to answer them. Mistrial appreciated and I remember meeting you way back when you don't even remember that we met years ago over in Helena and it was a lawyer's office and that back when I was in doing some ensure suggesting at that time so what do you remember you have been out here working serve for a very long time certain differentiate that represented Gonzales. Thank you Mr you mentioned several times drawing a map that would hold up in court is my understanding that if we we can draw up these lines based on on party affiliation and that is more likely to hold up in court and drawn along lines of race like you suggest this map has has been done is that your understanding as well or do you have a different understanding on that I certainly have a different understanding what you said this happened I've been drawn up on base with race this map was drawn up and given the. Also I didn't say that I said my resent the obelisk like you did I understand that when I came to speak on behalf of people who live in. I just that is mass was about people who lead okay thank you let's be polite about this now the Supreme Court has not said that drawing a map map that favors Republicans versus Democrats is illegal having said that probably because they haven't got the right case review the right case with those Democrats as the Texas lieutenant governor says ninety percent of those Democrats of black people then you get to the same issue this call about the from that. The members I don't see any other questions for Mr valley shall we do appreciate you being here and I thank you for your time Sir thank you senator all right. Interview members the last two maps actually or Senator Clark match he did have someone prepared to present those maps they got knocked out with conflict and so he'd ask if I would at least present on I'm going to yield the chair to chairman Tosh and go down for purposes at least getting Senator Clark maps out there since you've already got in your hand you want me to share with his comments about his maps so at that time are you chair. It. You. Senator Rapert the you're recognized to present Senate bill seven twenty two all right thank you Mr chairman. Members as a present this I'm doing this is a friend to us Senator Clark I'm going to give you what he stated to me was his rationale obviously we can take questions again on this we come back on Monday if you want to do that but will deal with Senate bill seven two two I believe was the first one and really I think his comments are going to apply Mr chairman I think both ways so when terms of that I'll get started with the thoughts that he lived he left with me and he said staff had been tasked with coming up with the map that didn't split counties they came up with a map that only split one county that was Pulaski Sir Clark says he thought that really didn't make sense and if you have to split a county or why doesn't that make sense if you have to split accounting when I split the most populous diverse county in the state why should more than one congressional district contained the council with our capital city the problem he says with the map in his opinion as it did not come close to keeping the district lines anywhere close to where they had been before so he then task that a map be drawn with the same thing except trying to keep districts similar so we try to keep the north west corner together in the third and in the map that map that the first met for talk about Sebastian and Crawford or no longer split he says he tried to get medicine curable from district three because it heard testimony Monday that they both want to be there but to accomplish that even the population will be over or a county would have to be split so he put Franklin in Carroll which at balances out the population he said almost exactly. Get district one very close to current boundaries district one would lose Searcy County and small parts of Jefferson County necessary to make Jefferson County holding the fourth district he took in a small part of eastern Pulaski County that is similar demographics District one. District two it was kept very similar except for losing about twenty five percent of Pulaski County in getting the central northern mountain counties as he calls them we kept together those to be kept those together which seem to make more sense is pulling them up two or three ways like other maps for doing. District four was kept very similar except it is more compact Jefferson County is no longer split district four goes into southern rural Pulaski County which staff tells Senator Clark Is similar demographics to the fourth district seem to make more sense for the fourth district to take in southern Pulaski County then to reach all the way from Louisiana to Missouri which is the other option if we keep the other districts similar to their lines and don't split counties. Overall regarding the maps he says only splits one county it keeps current district lines more similar than most other maps keeps the northern central mountain counties together rather than carving them up between two or three different districts makes the fourth district more compact is one of the most contiguous maps he believes that we've seen. Three congressional districts share a piece of the capital County the populations are very balanced and he says he's not looked at or even seen the voting demographics so that might be one consideration and he said he also had the mass put together without looking at any other information the second map which he adds this is it is a last thought on it just switches selain and pope counties balances the population between the districts with changes in Pulaski. Members I'm happy to answer questions but I really would defer to a lot of reasoning to senator Clark but seeing as how that his maps of already been put out for you to see he wanted to at least be able to have some rationale as to why put the maps that Mister chairman up conclude my comments thank you senator just make sure when you said the second map you also of referring to Senate bill seven twenty three which is that's true bills that were filed by Senator Clark is that correct that's correct sure okay any questions from committee members only the one of these bills. Seeing none we have one person signed up to speak up against the bills Mr Britain I know you spoke earlier against a previous bill that was presented with your testimony be any different in regards to these two bills as what your first testimony was you have any additional a testimony to Gail. If you would identify yourself to the committee for the record and we're shall Britain again you're recognized Jacksonville you have additional testimony of the only thing I could I add to this is the. That one of the questions I had is that I wonder if the RNC throughout these maps. And. Even this and jail. It keeps it keeps saying not one of the five counties except. They just give everyone a divide the Lasky there are other maps. They've already been proposed that not just not just the the one you saw that don't divide counties even some drawn by Republicans. Yeah I'd I'd much rather see a lot one of those maps. Then. Then something that slices and dices Pulaski County this way that's all I have to say thank you very testimony any questions from committee members say none chairman recommend John this committee's job I will see you Monday at one PM thank you Committee.