State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs-Senate

Be allowed to listen on Speaker phones that all right with everyone no objection to that let me see if I can. Get him at this point. Hello. Senator Hester committees without objection is allowed for you to join us by phone and so you're now part of the meeting and obviously I want to keep this nearby will make sure that people can hear you if you would like to speak sure. Thank you all right thank you. Do. Without objection it's already been handled I've cleared that was staff as well. Thank you Mr vice chair okay members first on our agenda here today is actually Senate bill seven four three from Senator Jane English. Members it should be in your packet I believe mine was positioned at the very bottom. So. Thank you look. Morning I am Senator Jane English from a North Little Rock district thirty four and I have here today Senate bill seven forty three which is a redistricting map is basically the take a look at it you can see what we have redrawn and inside is the individual maps for each of the district's. But one of things I think where we all or where is that when the census took place we had the first congressional district that lost people we have the fourth congressional district that lost people the third conduct congressional district game people the second congressional district gained people so what we have to do is to figure out how we make this equal and I across the board with a I thank you population seven hundred fifty two thousand eight hundred and eighty one persons voters in each of the district's. So this represents what we have come up with as a map that makes that happen now is everybody gonna be happy with this map no they are I'm not particularly happy with everything myself but it is the best that we have been able to come up with and the house is working on a similar map they'll be having their state agencies committee this morning so. Okay. Senator English I'm just going to take a look at this because I know everybody's been working hard on this and as far as the deviations which has been brought up right and make sure that I've got this correct members this year is is on each page of your. Maps with the district's outline one two three and four what I'm noting is that all deviations on the map for each district or less that point four percent factor highest is one point three nine gain and on the other direction would be a negative point three seven. So I want to make sure I know that's been a big discussion and also say on that is that. That from what I've been saying and and Senator Davis can attest to this because I think frankly members outside of the staff I believe that Senator Davis on our committee is is drawing a significant number maps to try to work with this and what happens Senator English if I'm not mistaken is that one of the problems becomes when you're working in a particular area where you're trying to find a population is that when you go to grab another precinct by precinct education is five thousand and you're only trying to find one thousand or two thousand that becomes the problem of what do you find you might reach somewhere else in that district and find a small area but it's not contiguous to the to the others and so the idea is we're obviously not splitting precincts why because that's the lowest level by which the committee has to work with is that correct that is correct okay members there any questions for Senator English. On the on okay I've got Senator Ballinger than Senator Tucker. Thank you Mr you know one of the things that the you there has been a lot of people did a whole lot of work on this and I feel like you're from my standpoint I feel like we got amount that I can I could be could be satisfied with it accept pool so. If we're giving in and we're splitting some counties in order to try to make the margins right like we I sat down with representantes and over the last twenty minutes and mess with this and and we got the same map bye bye by playing with some the precincts we got it so the highest margin from around three hundred people off so well under one percent and I'm just I'm just wondering is like taking what you all have come up with here and and by the way that that made it we're sure within Jacksonville where hall or kept whole agreeable to but the full speed limits and. In what I'm wondering is like. You know I don't think that this is wrong but I think that if we tweeted we can actually get those margins down within three hundred people and and still do exactly what you want to do and I had I don't know if you'd be interested in doing that I agree that we need to get something done but I think we could still have something done today like I said twenty minutes within their with with days and got got it that much closer. While keeping it still basically intact so I guess my question would be is if we're looking here on what the bureau is come up within the software that they've been using and it shows that the dish the second congressional district and two thousand people less then the seven hundred fifty two thousand where are where are you coming up with we need to have a three hundred fifty less I don't understand it so I am not claiming to even have any specific knowledge of the fact that looked at how would we do that if if if this is what this is what where where are you looking at making any difference I meant what it what it took was was Lou grant ranging from the precincts that were taken of what it took and and so that that is man I would have to get you a copy of the of the map to look at it but I mean I agree like like I said I think that I was hoping that we could come to some sort of consensus we can also share with the house and we can get done with this I'm I'm a hundred percent on board with that and I feel like maybe we've got there it's just that it if it is possible to get those margins tighter it's going to make it where we have a better map and we have you know we're a lot closer one person one vote like we we need to be. And I think with which doesn't develop I think it and and I have. Just had this discussion and Senator Hickey stated to me and Senator English you happy for me to state this weird position now we're we're in which I discuss this with us Senator Hickey about the fact that is there a way to find that find those numbers to tighten the numbers even more I thank you all know with the past week and a half that we've been here with all of this there's a lot of pressure now to get something going if the pressure is to the point where I don't think it's outside the knowledge of anybody on the committee that we're talking about the to Senate body considering extracting bill from this committee the bill it moved for so what I was told just a few moments ago Senator Ballinger is that obviously at the discretion Senator English if she wants to make a motion or not but that Senator Hickey she greeted if we lease if if this is if this is the bill but this committee wants to put forward if you put it out there on the floor won't both this and make an attempt to tighten it up even more so that would be an amendment now that's that's what was stated to me okay and the idea was there and I know what the what the idea is to start getting the bodies to move forward that was a pledge he said he'd be glad to come down to make statement here if you need to do that in obviously Senator English is control of that with bill she doesn't have to run it but the idea is that we're getting a tremendous amount of pressures you know to put something out of this committee because we've now been here to this point we're getting close to the end and so I was just given that information for came in here so but I'm I'm with you the thing is it would be nice to have had this done before committing and and I will say this my coral Committee when I saw what was taking place we've had the the situation where we get to an agreement right and then two hours after that agreement. Matt changes again right and I was there for the final amen on on anything that happened with district right and so I just wanna be very transparent with that'll process everybody's working but here's the thing the situation is that we have a tremendous amount of pressure to move so I'm okay if the if the committee wants to do this for any particular map that you will put forward that they will hold and that will help bring pressure the people stop you know playing with too many different pieces the map and truly up try to dial it down because what happens is we say we're truly trying to just ballot now the next thing you know said we were in a different area with the different fire so I'm just being open with the committee to let you know that that's that's the information flowing to me and with that said you know where we stand and know what what I've been advised and and so I will just stop at that point. Senator English I think Senator Davis center Tucker you've got a question. Thank you Mister senator. at the same question for you that Senator Davis last week although it's multi part because it appears to me the Pulaski County split into the second of the for the first and the fourth is that correct. So my questions are what's the population Pulaski County that's in the fourth and once the population Pulaski County that's in the first. I don't have those numbers but we can get this for okay I would really like to get those numbers and you know just a follow up question is. You know you mentioned that that the first as a congressional district I lost population. The second is a congressional district that game population yeah we're taking accounting Cleburne County from the district a lost population first and putting it in the district that game population the second I was curious for how that came to be. I think that you you get to a place where there's some smaller counties that you can have in there that with less population. This is moving maps moving things around I was trying to get those precise populations from those different counties. These district okay and is that the same rationale for splitting Pulaski into three districts I think so. Okay my last question is in Pulaski County are there any municipalities that are split and and different congressional districts. Cities yes cities towns in the second congressional district split between congressional districts or I don't think so. Okay. You are you but you're not a hundred percent sure I can't think of one of the Little Rock isn't the North Little Rock sure would Jacksonville they're not okay thank you senator Tucker just as a way of information because that's obviously concerned discussion. I can tell you. That the previous map split alma. Right down the middle it's pretty small city for the state of Arkansas. And. For whatever reason that was a decision of the previous body they split it literally right down the middle Ladyman make an attempt to go outside the lines so I have I will tell you there's been a lot of discussion on trying not to do that that is been stated we've had maps that have flowed all over around and I can tell you that even when when asked of the bureau what can you do to try to keep County sole the best you can and if it can't be done where would you go I remember one of those maps that they brought back was splitting Pulaski County three waste and it's only because it's nearly four hundred thousand in population is the largest county in the entire state and so if you're trying to not split counties as much as possible it's very easy then that you can it simulate that population also point out to you at this very interesting point happen to be from a Democrat friend mine as a matter of fact he said if you did split those counts flip Pulaski County for instance you would end up with the third and fourth highest population county in the state just from Pulaski County so I see that you know how it is a see the rationale on where you're trying to to get that population to square up if that helps any had just make one quick quick question yes. I just I've seen other maps proposed by both Democrats and Republicans were all seventy five counties are whole I understand the point that you're making with a large population Pulaski County we're every every council is holding the deviations are still smaller than they are with this map so and I do appreciate the effort to not split municipalities I think you're absolutely right about that and I understand there's only two county split in this map which is which is better than it so that's just some of my thoughts on it I totally understand in in you know as you know we've had people present before the committee it begins to be the you know the historical geographic interests in common interest we start getting all that that's where the push and pull thank you Senator Davis and by the way committee Senate president Jimmy Hickey is here would like to make statements to committee in just a moment. Thank you Mr chair and. In looking in this map it does split sure would in Jacksonville and and if we could take a short amount of time and correct the map here in committee I'm not sure why would pass something out that's not fixed incorrect we can take a little bit of time in reconvene and pass a map that has tighter deviations but sure would back together in Jacksonville back together so it's not split at all and that's what we worked on to get the deviations tiger was making those cities because they are split in this map and I know that something you were very much against last week and then I I don't see any reason why we couldn't come back in here today and pass this map out with those deviations being tighter and the city's made whole. And your anything else on that Senator English well I'm I'm I'm agreeable to that. K. up members fits okay Senate president Hickey is here I'd like to recognize what kind of a time frame are we talking about. An hour. Oh that's right I can't do that because with the bill in the house if. I am Mr center right members. And I know all of you worked on this map Senate dives I know you've been down here with the Speaker at the clock at night I mean that goes without saying that all of you have been involved in this. As you all know every time you do something it's a domino effect so what I am asking and Senator Rapert has alluded to this. Is that you all pass this bill. As the is out of Senate state agencies today. It'll go on our calendar but I'm gonna commit of course I need y'all help and I will do any and everything possible with all the other members. That we will not hear this map until Friday. Now I know from the House said that that is also the attempt is to get it out of their house state agencies. So at that point. And and I will tell you why I'm doing it because everybody here knows how hard it is because I hear what you're saying but then as you know whatever that you move that it either causes another issue R. sixteen issues so that way we're going to have a map that we're gonna votes right. But if there's not something that can be developed and devised on both ends then we will vote this map. This map come Friday but we won't do it before the end. Because at this point right here we we know we had these preliminary meetings before we went into session we're down here this is already going to put us in the next week. for something that you know we were hopeful that was going to be three days maybe that was overly optimistic but you got to have a bill so what I'm gonna do is I would ask that you all do this and I publicly stated you know what the plan is again if eighteen of you all decided you do want to do it that way of course they can overrule me but from my standpoint I think that that will not happen. So that's what I'd like to see is to. Right Ballinger yet and look I'm agreeable to voting this out today and I'm agreeable to to speak up for Friday if you want to pick it up before Friday the thing that I'm I'm really hesitant about agreeing to is I mean truly a lot of people have a whole lot of work into this one of the things I think that didn't happen last night and maybe some of the fine tuning that they could have this bit represented Dotson that involved and frankly center Davis have involved who also put a whole lot of work into it. I honestly think you came up with a compromise is and I'm I like it. And I think that I think a lot of other people do too I think I think it's very possible this gets done but the fine tuning the but that was done I don't know that that like I like nobody knows what the the parameters of people set probably better than than Senator Davis is involved and represent Dotson I think that the fine tuning didn't violate any of those an inmate at where's tiger parameters and and literally like we could be back here in two hours to get this out. And that that'll be that'll be good because that will be an amendment what I'm saying is that we pass this map out we have we pass this map out as play center for Friday. So if you will work. With the House because as we all know there's been a lot of people say these are just like constitutional amendments there's nothing like constitutional amendments because it with these with a constitutional amendment the house has won at least one the Senate has at least one and we know how that works but with this we've all got to work together so. What I'm saying is is if there's another map or an amendment to this map. That happens on both ends before Friday we will never even picked this map up but if that does not happen between then and there we will vote this map. So it's exactly Senator Ballinger I believe you're saying if there or if there truly are some ways to tighten it up make the map better. That is agreeable on both ends that it's not going to cause a domino effect the House that map to not be passed and that's that'll be excellent and be honest with you that's the exact reason I'm doing it is so that we will have this there to Vodafone so if that doesn't work. We're gonna have something to go forward with because we're getting late in the year with this redistricting. It It I guess really probably my question the more for the bill sponsor but I mean I I I totally get where you're where you're going and I guess like one of the reasons why we selected state agencies is to be involved in and to to engage in this process and and I know that we have and I know a lot of times we're we've been just missing each. Like finally it looks like we're not that but I would guess even the bill sponsor doesn't want to pass the bill this week sure within Jacksonville if there is a really good alternative to doing that and and so I I mean like I guess my question really is for the bill's sponsors is centering which would you prefer to to pass it out and have it held or would you prefer to come back in in a couple I don't know if that you're too will meet a couple hours. Back in let's Senator Hickey instead so if we can pass this out if we can do that an amendment thing in the house of the group on the other end I don't want us to do something that's just going to throw everything because that's what we've done for almost two weeks so if we can do something in the next couple of hours and make those changes and get that amendment in there agreeable with that I think make their meeting right now as well on this saying that if that passes out there agreeable and I'm fine otherwise. I can see what happens every time we turn around we just we keep members were within a minute of session starting. Senate and eleven. If. I was like I agree like is this like we've seen a lot of herding cats and it's not the very successful in by an out I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm interjecting because we got a minute and it starts running into a problem that we can't even be doing anything sessions going I've just been by the house did vote to Matt senator you're free with your well I'm sorry it's my understanding they're coming back to to do okay I'll tell you what without objection Senator Hickey given where we're at we got to go in session why don't this committee come back between now and this committee coming back this afternoon they get try to try to see if there's an adjustment is that okay with senator if it's okay with you what we're gonna do is I'm going to go immediately to ascertain it governor a description if we will move the session till eleven o'clock it is it's eleven use me eleven thirty to eleven thirty that we move the session to eleven thirty I believe that I can do that Mr cook steer so I will ask for that to be done so that we can continue in this committee okay we'll continue based on your feedback. and I'm sorry to interrupt that but we were getting a lot of pressure here from the situation with that what I what I would say Senator Ballinger almost I want to make sure to make this statement to you and this is for all concerned. This is a situation where there's a whole lot of cooks in the kitchen. And so. I've seen almost nearly all these maps that come through here. So if people having meetings and different things there's been meetings call that the chairs of the committees haven't called that are outside people working on maps I've got people frustrated they were invited to a meeting well heck I was just drugged into the meeting five minutes notice you know that sort of thing so there's a whole lot of cooks in the kitchen here and and I will tell you and I think Senator English today it when I left yesterday it was tighter. And then they changed so it what happens is that it's almost like the last one walks out of the room suddenly there's another little slight change so I think that were headed to here is to hopefully tighten up even further but based on what Senator Hickey response here on the session will see if we can procedure we need all. Third eleven thirty all right we'll proceed in Senator Davis you're you're back to regular order here Senator Davis you're recognized thank you and. I would like us to go ahead and amend the map like the problem is that and I'm not for the map as is deviations are too high and it split cities and that's one thing that and throughout this process I've been committed to you and I think that we can do better because we've seen a lot of maps that do that and I know Senator English does not want Jacksonville or sure would split that's one reason she's. I'm looking at the map I will make sure used proper terminology yes Sir it's it's coming into the edge of the sailors not splitting it much like it did our. Exactly yeah it's leading into it I mean yeah it's not the public's listening it is splitting one Afrin exhibits edging in the city limits is that correct it's in the city limits it takes part so with letting the city so to speak because there are different parts of city limits in each congressional district and so if we do that and we did do it tightening that made the deviations much lower and put whole cities back together it did not create any new fires as we all know we've been that will have all the in this I will suggest to you just to say here I would make a commitment that you can't get into any city limit because that may be a factor but I think we should do it as best we can look there may be an opportunity for you cannot do it without doing that I'm just stating that because I've watched all these moving parts well we just look at the map that did that and it didn't let any cities so I feel confident that that can be done without changing drastically changing this map and I know Senator Hickey you're committed to details and doing things right the first time in not passing things out unless they're right and that's what we're committed to hear in this committee and sale and I would like this to like this if I was good with this map as is I'd be fine with that in and out with the promise of an amendment but I'm not and good with this map as is because legally the deviations are too far apart and it split cities and so if we can get it amended that fix those two things which I know that we can because we just did it and I'm happy to come back in here immediately after we adjourn session and vote and and an amended bill out of here and I'm happy to do that. Where are the deviations. At the event what we worked on the the deviation. Right here their announcmenet shows at the bottom of each page where it shows you just the congressional district right it shows the percentage and you can see the ideal population verses with a total population and so all of the districts are thousands law and and what we just worked on has them all well under three hundred some of them like a hundred ACT L. R. software. It's it's state's redistricting that we work off of but it is freezing soul which is what the bill our software does that. We have been working. Excuse me senator garner you're recognized. So I pricing Hendren mapped this point honestly we've done had discussed for weeks now and it is just like anything else you change one thing on the margins and the whole damn thing changes around the edges of it is happened a hundred times in the last two three weeks honestly we talk about deviation the deviations are less than we did ten years ago I remember the initial to study and well below the one percent threshold I am. Fine we're trying to find to the map but every time that we move a lever on two more three more things move on the other side expects from working in the house so I'm to the point that we need to move forward and make something tangible here because I guarantee you in the next two or three hours whenever you change something I'm right on here from the same people I've heard from the last few weeks and I say wait will have a final map will have something I've run the trap to those people the people I think or I should discuss this with the cross the board or find with this map once we change it it's going to be the same conversation again you can argue that what those people don't matter but you can give that to our window before this thing is going to be passed out so I'm gonna removing for the proper time if you want to change it after the fact that is fine but I'm ready to get this done I think is good map I think we need to go. Senator Ballinger you're recognized. Frankly I'm okay with I mean seriously I think we can come up with with agreement just by sitting in front of the computer and looking at how the precinct change I think we could probably do that before session and I'm I'm agree will do that I I I I agree with senator garner like nobody here is is happy about continuing fighting over maps. I wouldn't be making this argument if it weren't for the fact that we feel like you've got a really good maps that needs to be fine tuned in small areas I'm confident that it can be done in a very short amount of time because we were in there and none of the changes triggered anybody else's concerns and so I really do believe that it's something that that that can be done and we can get it out today I mean the work these guys the last time to come up with something is great I just don't feel like it's it is it is fine tuned to the candy and we can keep the same thing without without creating any new fires and we get it out today but it's just going to take those changes and otherwise I'll feel like it's just a matter of the committee process getting getting rolled over and pushed over and that and and frankly not things not really deliberated in open the way it's supposed to be this map drawn. People who work real hard in this committee on maps for a long time so this map last night we got an email at nine thirty right and then did as soon as we could we got together and try to work on on making ways to make improvement as part of the you know as our job in the committee and and and without like I feel like that I feel like Eureka it's here we just have to have the opportunity to to to make those those change from a margin and we can do it it's just it's going to require you know another hour or so to make that happen. Senator Hickey just just one thing and I heard you mention Dave's redistricting. We dealt with this yesterday or last night wait. The bureau has to use of the software that they're using and and I don't think Dave's redistricting is it. For what or whatever reason for whatever reason and they may have to explain it to you a little closer but. The way the pre six lines are that's where those discrepancies are coming in because whenever you're using Dave's redistricting whenever you're just trying to figure out what you're doing compared to what the bureau is. Somewhere in the and they can explain it to you were those precinct lines or that's for those small discrepancies are coming into play so again I would ask that we use this is a place that we do what you all say but we have this out there because. But you're going to have to work directly with the bureau. With directly with the bureau whenever you're trying to do that we're gonna be back and forth. Forever with the stuff I would say this can't be fine tuned its it's because of the communication I give Davis is not not working or from the same same data and it in the most part we see this it's been pretty close but if that happens I'm I will vote for this rather than rather than you know hold off and wait for something that's more more perfect I don't like this is not bad it's just can be fine tuned and we just did it and it and if if we can't if we find the cure won't do it then that's fine but I don't want to I really don't want to get past of the committee process like that's why you take state agencies one of the reasons it's so you can help draft maps. The matter of the beer or not doing it it's a matter of can can that match up yet and I think that's sort of been the problem all along is looking at things and blocks and in different software but I think the bureau was pretty willing to do just about anything yeah and that's in if it doesn't if it doesn't work I know the bureau is but if it doesn't feel like it there because of the the difference is that if they can't do what we did with with Dave's like because of the the difference in the technology I'm I'm get how will I will vote for this even with the margins the way they are but if we can get the margins closer so it's closer to one person one vote within you know a couple hundred and to me I'd rather do that than than than pass something out and you know hope that we get it fixed and get it amended and then we just completely passed over state agencies and I just would rather do it in state agencies then passed out and your I think you have the votes to get it out with the with that amended I don't think any of us get out without being amended so then the question is part is gonna be a committee and you know from my standpoint that's it is it seems crazy to get to be working all the way through this process and finally get to something that I feel like we got some pretty broad agreement on and then at that point to say okay fine give up. So anyway that's just one thing I I'm I'm I'm at this point I'm committed to not voting for this until it's until it's either fixed or I'm convinced that it that it can't be fixed anymore and without problems and you know I like to look for that to happen within the next couple hours. But at the same time I'm not is this two precincts. So he I don't remember like you know I'm sitting there watching watching Dotson do it and you know work its magic and so I'm not sure exactly what all of that that he did but the map looks really close to this it in the end it says we get we give um in its losing of a bigger precinct pick up a smaller precincts here and there and making it into something that's within the largest margins like three hundred people. Senator Hickey. Expect the members up I really want us to go ahead and pass this because here's an amendment Senator Ballenger I know exactly what you're saying but kind of the. The following is within that within that and I'm not being disrespectful that the flaw within that is that it's not just about in here with this particular map it has we would have to be working that same way with the whole House state agencies Committee. And it went whenever if we don't pass this out here whenever you go do that then I know for a fact with all this stuff that's going on we're going to be talking about Pulaski we're gonna be talking about Cleburne we're going to be talking about to Sebastian all those conversations are going to are going to resume immediately again and that's fine that's so I understand that but what we need is we have to get something that gets this body focus that this map will be vote will be voted on Friday. Unless those changes are made that they can be done is I just don't think that that's a too big of an **** thank you. All right I've got three people queue here senator Bledsoe. I don't usually go against the president pro tem of the Senate but I do have concerns about passing something out that several of us don't. And I would ask that to maybe you of lot thirty minutes an hour after session press to come back in and work on this a little bit more thank you. All right Senator Bledsoe thank you and and I will tell you that the the map to to it's been referred to That map exist so that map actually could or to be drawn by bureau is anybody put that map over there to be drawn. By. Well I think that I think that should be asked for immediately then because it really doesn't take that long for them to produce that they could actually headed down the time we're debating discussion and has presented to us so we're just delay and everything if you know I would say and and haste do that Senator Davis I think unless you change your mind you got it well I was just gonna say in response to days redistricting verses the software BLR is using is I've and drawn many maps that then using days first their software and and have gone into freezing some plastic county in Sebastian county and other counties and its match perfectly every time so I am very aware of their software how it works first is what it looks like the days redistricting and we've had and a hundred percent success matching numbers so far in the maps that I've done with them which has been several over the last several weeks so I feel confident that we can get those numbers to be very tight very quickly. Just a disclosure I will tell you there's been a time or two that the staff has told me that there is slight differences so. Maybe not with you but I'm just going to make sure that that's clear because it has been stated Senator Tucker. Thank you Mr chairman I don't know what's gonna happen whether it's going to be voted out or amended but either way I see we have the bill are all star team here with the security Mr Miller and Mr Davenport over here regardless is very important for me and I assume the same for Senator Pitsch U. S. C. sitting in the room is not only do I want to know the the population numbers of Pulaski County that are in the the first the second in the fourth but also demographics particularly racial demographics because I've been told that. The part of what he County that's been cut out resembles a judicial subdistrict six point one which is a circuit that was created to promote diversity on the circuit court mention and Pulaski County which obviously means it's predominately African American part of the county whether it's judicial subdistrict six point one or not I know by looking at the map that's rose city that southeast Pulaski County I know that's a predominantly African American part of Pulaski County and that's why I'm really interested to know for certain those numbers because I. I understand it's amended it'll probably just be a tweak here there but. For me the legislatures inviting trouble if we're chopping he per a predominately African American part of Pulaski County the Three congressional districts. State for the record that I'm not anybody discussion any maps that have targeted any minority districts whatsoever U. S. Supreme Court says this is a political process and you've got a majority Republicans in this state it just so happens to be that you don't have that in Pulaski County and so the voice is a bit player have been voices representing the majority state senator Tucker I get your point and if I saw that that was something that was being done I will make the statement in the objection myself the fact is they're trying to find population where they can Okay. I'm sorry. Okay we do have someone signed up to speak against the bill Senator Hickey do you have anything else at this particular moment No Sir Mr president let me speak on thank you all right thank you senator Members we've got fifteen minutes so in actually fourteen minutes so with no other questions for Senator English Senator English do you do you have any direction on what you like to do this time you want to proceed okay if this time then we need to take those that are in opposition I don't have one Sturch signed up to speak for or against and so Senator Pitsch. if you'd like to come. You're recognized Sir you state your name against record thank you Mr chairman senator Matt Pitsch. Being a gentleman precludes me from using the language that was used by members back home this map in front of me. This map out filed at eight fifty last night it's tough to get a bus load of people here by eleven o'clock the next morning but they are unhappy back home. They see this map and many maps this week as basically what keeps happening to us. I'm not going to take all your time I've already explained that were the only county that did ten years last. Time being divided. And these maps that somehow as you said everybody's involved except on the one that has mentioned I keep missing the after hours meeting. Because I get phone calls from people late at night a we covered up your county again that's not there my folks. Back home are just totally entry to that another county and it comes to Senator Ballinger advocating for his folksy and I've talked we work this a solution we thought that got rejected. But it literally comes down have you take a county not in a district that's over populated by a hundred ten thousand people and you put it in and you continue to divide our county in thirds now maybe you folks are hearing a lot more from citizens. The world a long way away from this Capital One year in Sebastian County and we've had County judges to mayors and twenty four CEOs request this committee. To consider them in a fair and equitable manner. And they don't think that's being done and they couldn't get here that's why I didn't want to come testify again Senator Tucker I get it in this is kind of just become a let's get after the big County steel were put little counties in the districts and we're carving up the big counties and that's what the result of that map is somehow you took sixteen thousand people from a small county and put him into the third district in Utah eleven thousand citizens roughly out of my county of a hundred twenty seven thousand people. Am I think I'm the only one in the room that can raise his hand and say we were divided for the last ten years. That is not a pleasant place to be when you're as mayor a county judge it cetera. It just isn't and we're begging you to hear us tell you that and we're really banking you did not make us do that for twenty years I appreciate Senator Hickey Speaker Shepherd trying to move this process along but I've gone to bed four nights in a row in Little Rock not counting this weekend thinking we were going to be a third district hole on amount that ended my day at about anywhere from six to seven o'clock but as I've repeatedly shared with the chairman. I don't know where the meetings are to go talk to people because the next morning or late that night I get a phone call your county is divided. I don't know how to play that process it's not one I'm familiar with I have been in front of the committee that's publicized and we're our speeches are on videos and said please hear us. We do not like being divided for twenty straight years. Yeah I'll our folks literally think that's a very partisan map that was drawn ten years ago was one of the most. Congregated Republican populations in any county. We felt like that was a part of someone's attempt ten years ago and were shocked now that we're in the supermajority ten shortly years later. They're doing it to us again. And Mister chairman I'm open for any questions this committees heard me I've tried to work in the states and manner Senator Ballinger. Worked repeatedly with Senator Davis I think she's done a ton of work Senator English a week ago and I were talking about their districts Sebastian County whole. I'm now here comes a map that shows us the violated representative Nelda speaks is a sponsor on this she's fought to keep bashing County hole in the third district all week the somebody's convinced or we are gonna get that passed somehow some way and we are taking votes this bash county hold on the third and I don't know why I don't have an answer so I'll close with that you know my way is not to peel the paint. Present company excluded you and I had one hot phone call a week ago. But that's not our manner we're not going to peel the paint but I got a sneaky suspicion other people are peeling the paint in this process and we keep modifying Sebastian County being carved up and I don't know if that's the process that maybe I failed Sebastian County I don't know what else to say but they are very very disappointed in this process they're disappointed in the eight fifty last night filing of a bill and here we are proposal leave voting on eleven o'clock the next morning that's pretty tough for citizens that are three hours two and a half hours away. So. Comments and I feel like needed stated I wish I didn't have to say and they just couldn't get here to say that themselves. Yeah I understand that and I and I will tell you look I know members are got pressures you've got local interest but I take objection anything related to the fact that there's been any kind of back handed this in anything they're meetings being called by people outside of this process the whole time German Taschen myself of done our best when we get invited to be present to listen to those meetings but the chairs have not called meetings with specific intent whatsoever to not have somebody in the room and I have always taking your calls and I've taking calls of members on this committee and and so I I'm going to stand up for the integrity of the process do I like it that there is condensed times do always like it the bill gets filed and read across and that sort of thing it happens here this is why I took the the position last night needs members can tell you I actually texted members in addition to let him know that there's an email that just came in that's got a map you need to be aware that we've got we've got a look at this so and I state that you've been a tremendous advocate for your side and you and I have been friends a long time and continue to be friends and I can tell you that even with friendship you're advocating very hard for your people and that's what I expect you to do and expect Senator Ballinger do expect Senator Davis to do everybody to do and we're trying to get to a point where we need to Matt and I am the agreement in principle that I like the fact that we can tighten it up that's just me I also respect the fact that this Senator Hickey wants us to get something moved and I to after taking for his word and he said he would work with people to try to get it done but this committee makes a decision okay so I my part is is you I can understand the story in the Bible Sullivan and having the two mothers to split the baby. Because it's tough when you get to this point and and so I totally respect what you're saying but I want to make sure you understand that not every meeting that has been called where people have been drawing maps has been at the behest of the committee chair at all I understand I uses an example yesterday was Senator Davis and myself and I saw your reference Senator Ballinger and Senator Hester you brought us a map. And that may have had my County hole I didn't pay a whole lot I notice you map what you came to my desk and Senator Davis and I looked at you said as the bill we're gonna run we've got to move yeah that's a pretty solid indication my counties being okay that was Monday morning and I told my folks back home my chairman tells me this is going to be a solid County at ten thirty last night somewhere somehow this didn't happen and I I know this committee didn't meet and senator and what you're what you're articulating there is the process I have walked out of meetings were there they thought they had agreement and then it's a different map when I see it again it's unfortunately a part of this process is it wonderful no Sir but that's what's happening to all concerned Senator Rapert ma'am make a motion we run a really close that time if we can't find we don't limit debate and I think we'll have a propaganda five minutes I don't have anybody else signed up to speak for against the bill Senator English you're recognized if you got any closing comments no I'm close for the bill all right what's the pleasure of the Committee. I have a motion do pass is there a second. Second I have a second from Senator English all those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. The motion fails we can take it again members I will tell you that the committee is at the call of the chair I would ask that any any maps that can tighten up be immediately done please communicate with me about this and that will be prepared immediately upon the adjournment or recess of the session that we can come back in to handle the matter thank you Senator English.