ALC-Highway Commission Review and Advisory Subcommittee

Call the Highway Commission review and revise your committee to order Uh first we're gonna any comments from. Co chair McNair high. All right we're going to start with the efficiency study the. By a lorry you gonna do that. Yeah. That's exhibit C. your big book. This to push your button and. Introduce yourself and you're welcome to proceed. Good afternoon I'm Laurie tutor the Director of the Arkansas department of transportation. I'm going to go over the topics in the agenda and just a little bit different order is the chairman mentioned going to start off with efficiency review then go to that for sixteen report followed by the construction projects greater than ten million and then we'll find out what will and in the presentation with the I. forty bridge briefing. So just for a little bit of a reminder in twenty nineteen ACT two ninety eight of the ninety second General Assembly require the Arkansas Legislative Council to do a study of the processes in the functioning of the Arkansas department of transportation or are not. So in may of that year AOC assigned those duties from the act to the highway commission review and advisory subcommittee you are you here today. On September and twenty fourth twenty nineteen guide house who was selected to be the consultant to do the study was started kicked it off in over the next year they identified thirteen recommendations across six focus areas. Once and once that report was completed and it was adopted by an A. L. C. in twenty twenty one ACT seven thirty nine require that the Department submit rules. To the highway commission review committee. Regarding the implementation of all these recommendations so it your last meeting in September we handed those rules those proposed rules out and hopefully you had time to review them and had adequate time to look them over but today I'm going to briefly go over each rule and so I can answer any questions you might have. So the first focus area will talk about is organizational structure. In our first recommendation is finalizing key performance indicators or KPIs. And implement performance management this is a long term initiative in it will be accomplished in phases. It we will continue to identify key indicators and right now we're focusing on safety stewardship system condition employee satisfaction in customer satisfaction. We'll be establishing measurements and targets. We will get public input to make sure we're at literally meeting the mark of what they expect. And I'll just mention that we have recently redesigned our website if you haven't had a chance to go out look at the new improved website I encourage you to do so we're pretty proud of it. it is going to give us a platform to do a public facing Dashboard if you will of all these KPIs so that the public can see how we're doing what our goals are and how we are progressing to meet those goals and then we'll also put into place an annual review process to make sure that we're moving forward in a positive direction. Our second recommendation was to strengthen knowledge management in anticipation of increased retirement. So we'll be reviewing leading practices actually our human resources division who is charged with this is actively involved in a national association where they go to these meetings and they share best practices among the states. Lessons learned what resources are available out in the private sector. And we're going to continue to identifier high risk positions and conduct knowledge interviews and document processes and do cross training all those things to make sure we're prepared for the retirement center coming in the future. And we're also going to be training our managers on best practices in knowledge management and formalize knowledge sharing among our employees. Nicks focus areas portfolio planning. The third recommendation is to publish status of construction projects and maintenance activities. This recommendation will make it easier for the public to review project data and improve our customers experience we will be soliciting public input so that we make sure that we meet their needs and will be enhancing server existing applications such as I drive Arkansas in using our new website to make this a reality the fact is is all the data is available we just need to presented in a matter of its in a manner that is easy to find an easy to understand and so this is going to be a great recommendation once we get it implemented and shouldn't be too hard to do. Just one second this further information for the members in this big book this is on page four. So if you want to go along while she's doing this and go from there. Thank you. Recommendation number four is to implement a platform that tracks all stakeholder enquiries to resolution. Currently at the department each of our divisions and districts have their own home grown program to track requests for information are enquiring so those types of things. So this rule these rules will work to create an enterprise streamlined statewide system that everyone uses that will provide uniform tracking reduce duplication reduce inconsistencies increase accountability to make sure things don't fall through the cracks request that we get. And provide a way to measure progress if we're achieving what we intend to achieve which is customer satisfaction. This will be accomplished with software that is come customized to fit our dots needs. The next focus areas procurement. Recommendation number five is to implement efficiencies in procurement and purchasing. This recommendation will optimize and standardize procurement and purchasing procedures that we currently have in place it will improve the data collection and analysis that we need to identify trends into improve our current processes and to be more efficient. And we're also working towards implementing best practices to automate our purchasing procedures. Recommendation number six implement construction contractor performance measurements. The first step on this our recommendation is to identify the size and type of projects that will we will use in this ranking procedures that we will establish we're gonna put together a performance evaluation committee. And we'll identified established objective measurement metrics will create a form to standardized collection of of those in at that information and we're going to establish a review process at the end of a at the end of a job such as a close out meeting in a collaborative way effort with the contractor what did we do ride what did we do wrong is R. dot what did the contractor do right what could have been improved on the contractor side of things in together figure out how we could have done better to take that knowledge and pass it on to the next job. In the spirit of partnership with the contracting community we are going to be working very closely with them on this particular recommendation is not being meant to be punitive it's meant to make us better. And will also in just in case we get cross way some way or another we're going to establish an appeal process so that they have a they have a vehicle or a way to dispute something I don't agree with if we with us. Nicks focus areas expenditures. Recommendation number seven implement project and portfolio management frameworks. So for this we're gonna be looking at that we're or what we're going to have to do is evaluate the effectiveness of reorganizing our current structure in setting up new offices or divisions at our dot. In order to more effectively deliver and administer construction and maintenance projects. It will include evaluating our current software systems and our processes in will have to determine if we need the software to make our our process is better to enhance our current systems. And finally we're going to be looking at what other states are doing in order to take in best practices make our program is the best it can be. Recommendation number eight implement best practices in construction project design. Well our dot has used practical design concepts for years now we did not have a formal documented procedure in place in a tracking as a mechanism to measure its effectiveness and the cost savings over the years. So we're going to develop standardized standardized procedures and tract our cars cost savings in the outcomes so that we can better articulate that to the public on how effective we are with practical design. The next focus series of information technology. Number nine built in IT governance structure to guide the department's IT investments this recommendation will put a frame working to place that insurers technology investments are aligned with the overall goals of the Department. To make sure that resources are allocated wisely effectively and efficiently and a woman eliminate duplication of effort. Recommendation number ten implement mid term IT initiatives that can optimize business operations. This recommendation will optimize our operations by working to understand all of the data available and to move towards creation of the enterprise system a statewide system that will eliminate duplicate duplication of of effort duplication of data and reduce errors. Recommendation number eleven develop critical pillars necessary to establish IT is an effective business partner this recommendation is to develop a strategy that makes certain that are I. T. division is meeting the needs of the department so that our work can be accomplished a formalized strategy will enable the I. T. division to make better informed decisions and plan for the future. So that the department can continue to run smoothly and effectively. As I was studying this recommendation I had a thought you know I. T. for a business or an agency is much like a utility like water or electricity while it's working you don't notice but once it once it's gone it shut you down so we need to just make sure our I. T. is strong and stable so that we can to continue to develop deliver our work. The last focus areas people capabilities. Recommendation twelve and thirteen are very similar so we combine them together. In a are to ensure staff can develop their careers and capabilities align with current and future needs. There are several steps to get to one ultimate goal. To enhance and improve workforce development at the department to ensure employee engagement retention and effectiveness while meeting the needs of the department in the public. So the time that we have put from between September fifteenth and November seventeenth today hopefully it was was long enough for the committee to review these recommendations and the rules and if you're comfortable with the rules if this is the point where I'd like to ask if I could move forward with public involvement. We plan to the public involvement starting next week and go through January third reading a little extra time to the the normal thirty day. Comment period because of the holidays. Are we will we will publish the rules on our website we will send out a notice of availability by building a display ad in newspapers social media we'll email them out and will also mail them out mail out these notices of availability letting them know that this this report these rules are on our website. Or they can call and ask for a hard copy if they wish. Once we get the comments will address those comments between January fourth and January thirty first. And then. We'll have the rules in place and we'll start doing monthly progress reports to this committee to let you know how we're progressing to implement these recommendations. So with that I'll open it up for questions. Three questions from members. See no questions in the queue I would the. Entertain this motion stands is reviewed for the acceptance of these rules. So moved and I second. All in favor say aye opposed Like sign. Thank you very much and if there's any major comments Courcelles I'll share them with the committee. There's any major change requests for changes you'll know before I make the tax. Thank you director this will go on to the second the review of the annual expenditures and revenues. The with the second okay thank you. All right I'm not sure what your handouts look right this is the on the screen you'll see the front cover of the report yes we have presenting right now. So at four sixteen twenty nineteen. A. What that was was it It provided additional revenue to the Department. And that act required that we put together an annual report to show you where that funding was spent what projects that was used on. So within that report you'll see about forty three projects spread across the state the use this revenue. Just as a reminder the funding for medical for at the funding that ACT four sixteen provided came from three sources motor fuel tax. electric and hybrid vehicle registration fees and casino revenue. A total of about ninety five million dollars a year to are not in it can only be used for system preservation projects. So I'll stop there and see if you have any questions about the annual expenditure report. Go ahead John thank you Mr what percentage of electric and hybrid vehicles are we seeing in the state or do we assume we know we are or maybe we don't we we know but I don't know what from off the top it's not meant okay right now and. That is it five percent of our total vehicles. Are missing five percent of our total vehicles on the road there's like three million vehicles on the road registered vehicles about five percent. Is the registration I'm sure that number is probably going to increase it but is the registration fee going to is it a quella to what we project the the fuel tax that would be paid. Let there are a calculations made that show that it was close to the quibbling okay thank you. The other members. Transaction related to. No will move on to the third category which is our report on progress on construction projects ten million or more. At this point the chair at chairman may I invite a rex fines and Steve freeze B. to join me absolutely thank you. I have to share the microphone but just go ahead introduce yourselves and. You're welcome. Thank you Mr chairman I was rectified them deputy director chief engineer. My name is Steve Frisbie the assistant chief engineer for operations. Okay so this is pretty familiar to everyone I'm sure as required by law this report is the quarterly progress on projects at ten million dollars or more. And the. Since this is a familiar report the scene many times I'll just go ahead and open it up for questions. Three questions from members on the report. No questions do they have anything they want to. Actor Jack. The. The I. thirty bridge there is something happened out there today is there no I know that that that's under under project so. And I'm gonna ask Steve he was just telling me about that right before I talk about the pot hole okay. Yeah we've had other ways of of pothole developed in the bridge deck yesterday afternoon late in with this emergency repairs it is unfortunately a fairly common occurrence of nothing you know major structural issue issue something that causes you know damaged vehicles we've got to get out there get those patches may pretty fast so unfortunately from the south terminal of sixty fifth street we have had several bridge deck issues that we know we've got to get replaced soon as that's one of the project is in place for at. I'm not sure if that project is not a not an active project going now but yes we do have plans for bridge rehab for those yes Sir thank you. Senator Chesterfield. There was not a major accident wasn't as a result of this. I'm not aware of one no ma'am he brought it up is with great solemnity I'm going oh god what try to get this something happen to somebody and. Okay I should've known thank you so much. So today the final topic to discuss is the I. forty Mississippi River bridge. So on November eleventh which is veterans day I I email this after action report to each of the each of the members of the legislature as well as to the governor our congratulations into Arkansas highway commission. And we just want to take this opportunity to give you a summary of what's in that report and then answer any questions that you might have. So in introduction in on may eleventh twenty twenty one a fracture was discovered by the department's consultant on one of the bridges Tigers and the bridge was closed to traffic. Within twenty four hours an emergency repair team was put together in a symbol that included R. naught Tennessee department of transportation Arkansas and Tennessee Federal Highway Administration and the consulting firms of Michael Baker international in eighteen T. B. and then it just within about a week later he would corporation was hired to be the contractor. The design repair an additional inspections were completed in two and a half months and the bridge was reopened to traffic fully on Oct August second. The total cost of the design. The repairs and the additional inspections that we have performed was ten million dollars. After discovery of the fracture we had our dot begin an internal investigation. He came to our attention that the crack was visible in twenty nineteen. After interviewing the lead inspector responsible in twenty nineteen twenty twenty it was determined that he was derelict in his duties and he was terminated. He admitted that he knowingly did not perform a full inspection on that area of the bridge. Because he felt it was unsafe to do so but he did not inform management that he was not performing that function. Another amateur photo surfaced from twenty sixteen. We validated that the photo was in the. Authentic so the crack was visible as early as twenty sixteen. There was still another picture from twenty fourteen we still have not validated that picture it was on a flickr account and it was from someone in France and it's hard to to validate that so we're not sure if it is or not but we. We were sure about the twenty sixteen. Our investigators physically when out on the snooper that the equipment that we use to do the hands on arms length inspection. And Physically verified that there was no problem with looking at that portion of the bridge. And she said she never she never felt unsafe. And that's not being heard by the wheel house to go out on the I. forty bridge in the snooper and look at the tiger but she did so very bravely which a lot of courage and she did not feel and safe and she even has a small fear of heights so um I would like to appreciate her publicly for doing that for a. We found that the terminated inspect terminated inspector was responsible for inspecting that portion of the bridge twenty sixteen twenty seventeen twenty nineteen twenty twenty. We also found that there were concerns about the terminated inspectors speed and thoroughness when he was inspecting bridges. And it was reported to management but they failed to act on it adequately. The inspector in twenty eighteen. Was fairly new on the job and had never inspected that portion of the bridge before. But we determined that the lack of good management and organization resulted in him missing the crack as well. And we have verbally counseled him or sending him to additional training. He did not knowingly ignore that portion of the bridge the way the terminated inspector did. We also found that our program lacked adequate internal controls to make sure this type of thing would not have. So with that I'm going to pass the baton to rex funds who will give you an update on the Federal Highway assessment of our program. Thank director. as you as you all know the department's bridges special program is subject to annual compliance reviews by the Federal Highway Administration the department has never been found non compliant in these reviews. However given the seriousness of this situation the department request a comprehensive assessment of our bridge special program this assessment route consisted of a review of our policies or procedures are standing up standard operating practices. I used to administer the requirements of the national bridge inspection standards. The goal of the assessments the goals of this assessment word identify opportunities for improvement. And highlight commendable practices. The Federal Highway Administration team identified improvements improving opportunities to enhance the quality and improving effectiveness grouped into five categories these categories. Our quality control quality assurance. Inspection procedures. Load rating procedures. Scour appraisal. An inspection resources. You're seeing a report there eighteen recommendations in total. I would also like to point out there are numerous commendable practices noted in the report and we will continue to further continue those to further ensure success the program. The Federal Highway administration's Arkansas division administrator had requested that we are that the Department submit a plan of action to implement these recommendations by January thirty first two twenty twenty two. And we would also we would like to take this opportunity to publicly thank the Federal Highway Administration. Further time review and handling of this assessment so that we can begin implementing our improvements quickly. Thank you. Now I'll hand the baton to Steve freeze B. his going to brief you on the fracture investigation. Thank you lord. Are not retained was Janney Elsinore associates to perform a forensic investigation of the fractured portion of the bridge was Jan is an architectural engineering and materials science firm specializing in investigation analysis and design of repairs for buildings and structures. During the repair process the contractor Kiewit was able to remove the fractured portions of the steel plates and delivered to west Cheney's Laboratory in Illinois for examination and evaluation. Four samples from other worlds on the bridge were also taken and evaluated fractor graphic and metal graphic examinations were carried out to determine the cause of the failure. The investigation determined that the fracture originated from a defective well during the initial steel fabrication in the nineteen seventies the defective well was not visible to the eye after the tiger was fabricated these photos of our cross section views of the actual weld on this fractured tiger the photo on the left shows a good will you can see the layers of well material place from each side notice the width of the weld in the uniformity of the layers the photo on the right is the actual defective welds notice the extra with on the weld. The investigation determined that the probable cause for the fracture was hydrogen cracking originating in an attempted repair of the weld in the steel plate in other words this evidence shows that the additional weld at this location was likely cracked after was welded and the welder ground out that correct will made it wider and they went into re welded resulting this wider weld area this cracked again occurred likely within forty eight hours after the attempted weld repair but it was not identified. Slime. So wish Jenny also determined that the defect propagated to a fracture over three phases sometime after the bridge was completed the photo the fracture here shows the direction of the correct group how it grew from the initial defect the investigation also determined that the fracture likely propagated due to a unique combination of increased stresses resulting from low temperatures and several fully loaded trucks at the same time. Now keep in mind this bridge was designed to carry fully loaded trucks on all six lanes of traffic your call for example the very low temperatures that occurred last winter. These low temperatures greatly increase the stress in the still mature all as steel contracts due to cold temperatures the third phase of the fracture growth likely occurred during this time frame resulting in the fraction that was found in may your call back to the twenty nineteen drone footage you can see to a certain point but in when we found it this year it cracked across the top plate in that of the forensic investigation believes that was due to those cold temperatures. During the repair efforts this summer our consultants. Performed alter sound testing of all welds on the Tigers and the to Ark spans over five hundred locations this testing found additional defects which were very small hairline cracks that had not propagated any further so the size of these defects additional were much smaller than this original defect out of the abundance of caution seventeen additional steel plates were added to strengthen and protect the areas of these defects as part of our phase three repairs. The conclusion of the investigation determined that based on the recent ultrasonic testing and inspection of all Wilson the Tigers and the identified defects that have been strengthened the fracture a fracture of this nature is very unlikely to occur again it was also recommended that additional periodic alter sound testing of the well to be performed in the future and we will do that thank you. Hammer okay. All writing conclusions. Based on all these investigations. And what we know today this is how we plan to move forward. We're placing the heavy bridge maintenance section under new management. We're reorganizing a program to make it more effective. And stronger. We're creating an oversight committee both the policy and technical committee to provide additional accountability and support to our bridge maintenance to our bridge inspection program personnel. We're going to add some additional personnel to make first make our teams stronger. For complex bridge inspections such as I. forty bridge will make sure of professional engineers on site during the inspection. We will make sure that inspectors are rotated on all of these complex bridge inspections and the same thing that happened that resulted in us missing the cracks so many years will never happen again as far as the same person looking at the same bridge same place year after year. All the Federal Highway Administration recommendations will be implemented. Will at work closely with our federal highway partners to make sure we do that and they will provide us to be great support and also great accountability to make sure we do it in the way we should. We're going to hire consultants in the interim we were putting all these changes into place to help supplement our staff and to also identify maybe new technologies and new ways to do things provided additional training to our staff. And of course we will be scheduling ultrasonic testing on the I. forty bridge in collaboration with T. dot Tennessee DOT and FHWA as appropriate. So. Please visit our website to view or download these reports that we are presented to you today and there's also other very helpful information out there that may be are you might find interesting. And so with that I will and open it up for questions. We have a representative ray. Thank you Mr chair so the other day I read the reports from earlier this month about the retirement of the two senior bridge what were they. Senior bridge inspection engineers. Where those departures related to the I. forty bridge failure. Yes okay and we're those two engineers where they terminated or did they are retired they were given the option to retire. Okay. So where they they were they were from where they found to have responsibility related to. The the failure to catch the. Fracture earlier yes we feel like that They did not manage the program the way it should be managed. And that's why we're just we decided that the management is. Needed to move forward okay so where they where they supervisors to the inspector that was terminated shortly afterward or yes yes the the lead inspector that nested for four years. based on what we found in our investigation he probably should have been either demoted or terminated years ago by not doing his job. And then because what we found out with that With the management of this section they also were neglecting duties that they should have been doing as far as quality assurance quality control. one more follow up Mr of the the the two individuals that. recently departed. Of that particular type of position how many of those positions does the department have or they are they the only to or they two of two of ten or two of twenty how many. Will there okay there to bridge engineers structural engineers. overall and the Department we probably have and any. Actually engineers I'm not sure we have a lot of engineers but none that are trained in regions faction away those two or. Lansing server they the the the two most senior yes okay all right thank you. Thank you representative ray reference representative Cavenaugh. Thank you Mr chair I just want to understand so the people that were in charge of the management who failed to act. On the information. Are they still employed no ma'am okay are they the two that were allowed to retire they were why did we not terminate somebody for failure to do a job that could cost millions of dollars plus human lives. It was our decision that while they didn't do their job it was an intentional. They were not intentional in not doing their job they just weren't good managers they were good engineers that. Does it matter had the same effect that's true that was our decision to give them the option to retire. Follow Mr chairman the other thing you said was that the inspector who failed to notice this said that he felt unsafe to do his job how did he feel unsafe to do his job. Okay held at Stevenson. This is my understanding the inspector from the interview with them said that are under bridge inspection unit sometimes we use the term snooper but it's just a brand name that's the truck that it's a special truck that wraps around and underneath the bridge the claim was if you extend that out kind of like a balloon that when you reach to this certain point it would make the wheels come off the ground and that it DO you couldn't reach this part of the bridge we believe that was an excuse and as director tutor explained as part of our investigation we had engineers and an investigator go out and put that vehicle in that exact position and get right on there we took video they could put their hands all over there was just nothing to that statement. Okay thank you. Thanks senator Chesterfield yes mine is perhaps on a lighter note the personnel there are a number of bridges that are may have the same fabrication and is the desoto bridge is that correct. I know that Steve answer that we we practice that because okay I practice young. Maybe not enough. This is Chesterfield answer why don't you uhhuh well that's definitely good question has been asked before and so that it depends this is a unique bridge and so I would say once is no there are not other bridges in Arkansas that are made with the same steel during that same time frame that have a tiger in in this tension member and so this was a special bridge it's a unique design of these designs are not done anymore the welding procedures that were done in the late sixties we have bridges that old but they're not in this unique fracture critical status and so we're we're comfortable that there are not other bridges in Arkansas that we need to be looking at in the exact same way now we're clearly taking all bridges it in looking at them very closely but we. Thank you but I thought that I was told that the rich from Helena to low was made us similar materials or something what would I get a lot of that's actually an older bridge okay which but we're not as concerned that bridge is is that as press bridge but it's not of same design it gets in some engineering details and I'm not an expert on but it does not have a tiger that stretches and more including you to me the address will be fifteen bridges or something similar or some would I get that okay we have we do have other fracture critical bridges unsafe fracture critical thinking and I have FCB at okay I think I think that was the confusion there are other fracture critical bridges but the what was unique about the failure on this bridge we don't have those unique qualities on other bridges but they do have their own particular unique qualities that we need to watch for sale. I've been sitting down here dealing with this issue for the last year and a half I thank so John tell me one thing and then we think that because I had you know a soulful to have long term memory so thank you. You very much. I know more about bridges now that I have for the. Thank you senator Chesterfield we have our own sorry I'm I'm to. We have representative Hillman. Thank you Mr chairman whatever was notified of this back in may of the first thing I thought was what thank goodness no one was killed in a bridge didn't fall into the river. Of and then I thought to myself well we don't need to start pointing fingers right now what we need to do is get the bridge fixed and then this but commit plenty of time to second guess and things like that but I was just wondering a cost ten million dollars to fix it now what if it had been discovered in twenty sixteen how much would have because then. That's a good question as well and when we've had that one before also so we're. The answer is basically the same repair so there might be some slight nuances offer for actual little bit smaller and there might not have been some of the faces but basically if we have found that correct as you say in twenty sixteen even a very small correct the bridge would have been shut down just the same emergency that's the seriousness of a crack in this member of a bridge so we would have been shut down we would go through the same repair process and then the additional well testing found all locations and so essentially it would have been the same repairs so does so the the answer is it just the difference in the cost of the steel of from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty server rack record costs could be different based on the years but other than that it was essentially the same requirements okay thank you Sir. Representative right. Thank you Mr chairman Laurie concern about a lot of the two lane bridges. In the rule part of northeast Arkansas and I think that we are beginning to replace those bridges but a lot of them will not hold the weight of that you know the the pharmacologist and bigger bigger all the time just wonder could you give us County a little recap of what to expect up there in that area as far as bridge work. I thank represent right we have numerous projects coming that they're on the books or will be led in the near future we have also established a convert an emergency repair team this going and doing the repairs to have your almost like a contractor the third they're hitting the center They were struggling to keep open. And they're replacing them as quickly as possible to keep the traffic keep them safe and keep arms going. Sure you'll see a lot of activity northeast Arkansas and you should already see if you're around areas. Well follow up please. Yes right between Lepanto and I five five five years to bridges errors are that was put in back in the late forties and that they're getting to be a danger stage and I know you probably know all about it yes Sir thank you very yes Sir thank you thank you Sir. Representative Gazaway. Thank you Mr chairman. As I look at the summary of the investigation report one of the things that it says is that the crack occurred in the weld which is believed to have occurred within hours of the completion of the weld is that correct. And then it appears that the investigation then revealed that the cracked. continue to propagate it says in three different phases and I know what I saw on the news and I'm sure what everyone else saw was of what appeared to me to be a very large crack. And something that was very concerning and in fact the night before that this became public in kind of all hit the news I had driven over that bridge the night before. And so my question is I'm sure that this is been answered in the past but I haven't heard it and I just like to know. how close were we to a catastrophic failure. That's that's really hard to say by the The models that were built we should have been a catastrophic failure. However the there were other Circumstances are other influences on the bridge on the on the outside the model for on a bill for the structure itself so the model on the on the the bridge is on the opposite end of the bridge. Or hold it together so to say for certainty there there's no website for certain approach we work. Representative right. thank you Mr chair I'm just reading back over the. Store that regionally read and I'm reading the. Statement that was issued to the press about the resignations. And. It's just sort of very vague it says quote a decision was made collectively by the R. dot executive management team. And our overall concerns about the effectiveness of the program moving forward. Just in the interest of transparency and what this was about. And the I mean you just said that the. The two the two folks who were. Who retired who are no longer with the department that they had a responsibility in this. I mean shouldn't should you guys a proactively just said that because if if we hadn't asked the questions I don't know that that would have been. Made public. I want to say that As we've navigated through this whole process. We've tried to be as transparent as possible at all we have not tried to hide anything but when it came to personnel actions. We were just that. Trying to take the high road and not just. Slammin somebody in the press. All I can say is we we tried to say in a way that. Thank you retain some dignity they were asked to leave. But. In the spirit of just trying to do something in a way that was earned honorable we just didn't come right out. And say. It made a lot. Different but that's how we decided to handle it. The Cavenaugh. Thank you Mister chair I going back to the pictures you know we talk about we were able to validate the one from sixteen when did we first get turned over to our dot picture showing the crack when did we first get those pictures. We'll and the way it happened is the breach shut down may eleventh that got discovered and then in social media like a day or two later that twenty nineteen photo was circulating around we were. We didn't know what was happening at that point and then we were able to verify that that was indeed a valid photo and it was there in twenty nineteen. And then I think it was a couple weeks later that this twenty sixteen photo service. We didn't know how to validate that and we actually had the office of IG office inspector general look at that photo and that is called meditate I don't know a lot about it but anyway they will say this is illegitimate photo. They haven't been able to do that with the twenty fourteen photo but it was all within with the twenty nineteen was within days the twenty sixteen was a couple weeks later than than that and prior to that the the may when we had to shut down because it was a catastrophic failure. Pending on the. We've never had any pictures sent to anybody that had ever seen that's correct no we never saw a picture before it was shut down we never knew of a picture of that crack it was all it all happened after the shin okay thank you. Represent represent Ladyman. Thank you Mr chair up no question about the the designer and maybe maybe I misunderstood but did you tell me but I think one the pictures you showed you said that the crack was a failure of a weld. Sir correct. Yes Sir so I direction will serve the original bridge that joins the that crack was a wells it was not a failure of the steel. Correct the this tiger there's two spans about nine hundred feet long each to one thousand eight hundred feet and these these Tigers we use that term time because it's like the string of a bow it holds the arch vote together but that tiger is basically a box beam a box shaped girder of consisting of four steel plates and so long as you know eighteen hundred feet you take plate after plate in there are five hundred locations those plates are all welded together to make one continuous long task plate or tiger so are the the new bridges that are built now are they designed in the same manner they still have the wells are they still designed and built that way or is there a new type of design there's various avenues we do still do welding of the the most she strong the strongest types of connections are actually bolted connections because it doesn't it's it's been discovered that welding does that heat that's induced it can cause cracking now this particular cracking I mention the term hydrogen cracking that was a electoral Salak welding process from the late sixties early seventies at the time they did not know that this type of cracking was prevalent but it later became known in the early eighties that this type of electoral slide welding is susceptible to such hydrogen cracking and they're been great improvements in welding process is to identify that such as preheating the steel of different types of welding gases around that so is definitely made improvements since that time. So if I remember correctly that's a but will is that right correct yes Sir and so lap weld or boating would be a better designs that correct correct yes Sir okay thank you. Representative ray. Thank you Mr this questions not related specifically to the bridge report but it's I guess related to all these reports so with the passage of the infrastructure bill in Washington I think what I've read is that the state is going to receive somewhere around four billion dollars in infrastructure funding. is the Department going to publish a report or a plan. that the public can view that will lay out the priorities for how that money is going to be spent can you speak to that. Of course I'm yes when we when we finally get the final numbers what that's gonna mean Arkansas and. How we're going to be able to earn. Move forward with a new funding we will definitely do what will we put together our next it's a surface transportation improvement program. Our state wide transportation proven program that will show you how we intend to use that money because that particular report has to be financially constraint in the beginning of that report it shows all the funding that is available from the federal government as well as from state is show you how we're going to use that funding so that'll be one place but then I'm sure that we kid I haven't really thought that far in advance but we could probably do some kind of a long range of report that looks at what this is going to mean over the next five years and the other life of this highly bill this highway at in exactly with. Hey we're gonna be able to accelerate projects because that. All right thank you. Representative Gazaway. Thank you Mr chairman this is just a follow up on my previous question because not sure I fully understood the answer I think the answer was that there was no real way to know exactly how close we were to a catastrophic failure by that I mean you know the bridge split into you know or a serious risk to human life of in a motorist driving off into the Mississippi River or the bridge collapsing into the Mississippi River. That's how to find a catastrophic failure and I heard you say there was no way to be exactly sure. but I think you guys are are pretty well educated on all this. Give me a is best you can your best estimate as to how close we were to having that catastrophic event I mean obviously you guys reacted quickly the report notes that it was you considered it serious and that there was a risk to motorists and so again that while you can't be certain and I'm not asking for certainty I want to know what your best estimate is as to how close we were to some type of catastrophic failure that bridge. the nature of this. Taker element on the bridge is it's a fracture critical element so if it fails. there's a very high likelihood of the structure failing. So we were very yeah we were very close. Representative right really. Thank you Mr chairman of of this federal money that supposed to be coming before maybe too long is that gonna be matching money with state money or would that be just strictly of federal money yeah your requirements matching funds it will require a mentoring finds its regular federal money it's just more of it and we'll have to match it okay follow please will it be a seventy thirty manage it's more more in line of eighty twenty most most projects. The Cavenaugh. It was something that you said Walt just kind of piqued my interest said that these wells have been known I guess from about the eighties that they had some issues with them because they didn't know what at the time but they did if that was a known problem how can we didn't do a better job of inspecting not just this one all of them. And the other part of that question is are we now since we know that that's a problem inspecting all these wells and on all these bridges. Yes and so the welding process has grown and improved quite a bit over the times they don't know if there was in a specific date on that but he's. Yes and and in the eighties that was done and so it's still unknown how the defect was not found so it's pretty clear the fracture was not there meaning the visible fracture was not there but this bridge did receive alter sonic testing in the eighties as well to identify any defects in this was not found now that I'm not an expert on this ultrasonic testing but it's actually improved as well since the eighties And the cost phased array ultrasonic testing there's all different types and so in from pipelines to bridges to all kind of structural elements the technology keeps improving to where we can identify that. And we are working on those particular ones we now have this particular wailed in this particular type of steel and everything we are doing inspections of those correct okay thank you. Since construction as part of maintenance has has that does. Tiger's been painted. It was a teal green is that has that has that been maintained since the seventies and Peene. Yes Sir it has been repainted more than once when we did this alter sonic testing we had actually ground the panels to the testing make sure you could see through that and then it was prime back in pain again and I'm sure will be painted even again several times if. If it's covered up by paying you can't tell if there's a crack there is that right. The as far as visibly now what's interesting is the the the small defects the other seventeen locations that we plated this is a closed box once you build this box girder it's it's too small really crawl through and so some of these defects were on the inside of that closed box of the outside was painted and so that's the beauty of the ultrasonic testing we do we call you T. we do UT testing on various bridges sometimes it can read through the pain and if they can't will ground the paying off and will test similar to pipelines. Well I will tell you as is amended chairman and and. I don't know about the other members here but I didn't expect that bridge to be open until about now. I would not have held my breath it got done in four months and I appreciate that your coordination with. D. dot and and the efforts that was made for commerce we have enough issues and let when it is spent another one on top of it if it was still in place at this time and the inflation rates in the steel prices everything else would elevated that probably another five million Bucks probably if it was done right now but well I appreciate your efforts and and I thank. There's not any other questions that I see a thank chairman of more and vice chairman farmer have a have a statement that like to make on behalf of the Commission. Thank you thank you correct I would like to recognize rex and Steve. They had been on the job when the. As chief engineer and assistant chief of operations when the bridge was closed. So they have been they have shown excellent leadership and support have been invaluable throughout this process I want to thank them publicly. You are recognized Mr and members of the subcommittee thanks for allowing us to the minister to appear before you my name's Robert Moore I'm chairman Arkansas highway commission. Thank you good afternoon my name is Alec farmer on the vice chairman. I will tell you for those added don't know ten years ago I had the privilege been Speaker of the house of representatives I know what it means to the for Clark half names will be brief here. I would Mr if you would allow but have to other members of the commission here that I would like to introduce one of our members. commissioner Keith Gibson from Fort Smith was unable to bear with us today but I'd like to introduce first commissioner Marie holder and I comprises from Little Rock and commissioners so uptight although Springdale. Smallville. Thank you all for being here. again thank you for allowing us to be here I want to introduce the rest of the Commission because our first while out to a under those of it probably know under our constitution mentor forty two which establishes Arkansas highway commission which been into effect for almost sixty years now the most salient provision of that amendment is that to the five member commission appoint the director of the highway commission that is a true to the authority of the commission and as such I'm here to speak on behalf of the entire commission today for our sports or on record tutor and the Arkansas department transportation staff in its work and response into the forty situation what you have adequately been briefed on today as has been discussed this was a very serious situation we're all extremely happy they did not result in a catastrophic circumstance I think but all of you in the room by virtue of where you are we all know wise people would have difficult situation try to learn from that situation and this was what we have here very difficult situation and it became the the catalyst for the indepth investigation into the bridge inspection program that and the way that it was being managed at the time that the circumstances occurred and used by your that's what you heard today the director acted very swiftly in response to the events of may the eleventh she took ownership for the errors of the past and you set in motion a deliberate and transparent corrective process. All the after action report there's been presented to you and discuss today is a summary of investigations initiated by director tutor the details are corrective actions that are the roadmap for moving forward. The commission. That's important reason I'm here today that the commission is confident in the plans that have been put in place and we will continue to be engaged as new procedures are implemented. We want to thank each one of you for your patience over the last six months as we navigated through the process of determining what went wrong and make sure it doesn't happen again. We are committed to supporting the director and the department as they strive to learn from the past and make Arkansas bridge inspection program better stronger and as effective as possible and moving forward again Mister chairman thank you for your time members a subcommittee and have questions would be glad to address. Thank you chairman any members of a question of the commissioners. Seeing none I appreciate each commissioner for being here and the director and thank you for doing these rules and and I getting amend placing your availability to the legislature and and make an. Our interaction better and and our our state and commerce better for the state of Arkansas thank you and we are adjourned.