Education- Senate and House

Kind of a little bit of a local crowd. A real members and we got a few extras but makes it kind of even up so thank you all for being here today I will remind you if you're a non member. You will not be able to ask questions this is our adequacy we're down the last two meetings this one and one in October will be our last meeting before we present or findings to the governor so if you are a non member I ask you to sit on the front row or I'm I'm allowed a few on the back row on the far side over there which is out of the queue with everybody else so we just don't want you enemy in in between our members today and month and next month so we are If you don't like it or not yeah I was getting comments. Sure you do go ahead. Great looking for to hearing from you we've been working hard with you guys or executive subcommittee so I think that's gonna be a good information for this committee I think it's important folks for you all to understand or any organization out there and to provide us written testimonies and we will gladly accept those go through those and I'm if you could do me a favor and send those to miss Nelson and then she's going to print those off for us as well and so that I don't have to just go through emails and that would be very helpful to continue to provide written testimonies to us and then print those out this also print those out for us but other than that we're working on some committee meetings for school safety and so as Education Committee members of just what sure inbox for those thank you. And I would like to welcome Stephen Pruitt Lee Posey today they're here for miss already be were you guys that okay this that back here and like of my manager said we will be hearing from them directly after this meeting we will adjourn out of this meeting and hi I'm still not sure for somebody one thirty eight or not we're going to go there and that will adjourn give everybody a chance for the staff to clean up and we'll decide what we're going to go but I will now set at the end of the meeting if we're going to stay in here or go to room one thirty eight across on the other side so pledge over here they have a lot of good information for everyone if you don't know a whole lot about it sorry buddy you can stay and you'll be able to understand a little bit more about what they do the programs they have the things are doing for Arkansas and all the other states that are joining around us it's a great deal and we've been a part of them for a long time and I've had the last I think eight years that I've been a part of his or anybody and it's been fun so. will get started now with the are considered to be a consideration to approve the August eighth meeting minutes. A motion and a second all in favor say aye. All opposed no motion carries thank you all right we'll move down the other be discussion of our consumer price estimates. Dr Carlos I'm just gonna call you Carlos because that's what I've been calling you if you're okay with that and then we'll go from there he's our legislative economists from the bureau of legislative research and he has some information for so you're welcome if you'll just wait introduce yourself for the record on that Mike so we have it thank you Carlos thank you Mr chairman Carlos Silva Legislative economist your of Legislative Research and to them here to update you on the consumer price index so the estimates that we have here it's from two of the top economic for data providers that we have here is the IHS Markit right now has been purchased recently by S. and P. global and moody's analytics the CPI CPI U. and CPI core has been said to have been provided to this committee previously what the CPI you is the consumer price index for all urban households and the CPI core is the one where they take out food and energy why did they could afford energy is due to the volatility there so following that the same approach that has been presented this committee what we looking here is. Quarter three two quarter three changes and we really focus on the twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four and then twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five As You looking through the twenty twenty to twenty twenty four was C. two percent change their for moody's analytics and one point sixty eight percent for IHS Markit you can see some of those changes and they are due to then. Labor market or a monetary policy assumptions between the two companies in and how they make those assumptions that's why those numbers would change and then when looking for twenty four and twenty five going to C. two point thirty one for moody's analytics and two percent for IHS Markit when we average those values we're going to have a change in twenty three twenty four of one point eighty four percent and twenty four to twenty five at twenty two point sixteen percent of those estimates may change there's a lot of volatility market right now not only nationally but also globally and I'll be happy to come back and other time to chew up the disk Committee if it's needed with that we'll take any further questions thank you. Revson make sure recognized. Thank you Mr I just real quickly right now inflation's running and seven eight nine percent so kind of help me and also understand the difference between that seven eight nine percent inflation rate and only the two percent you're showing here right thank you for the question represent makes that's a that's a great question so what are we looking right now and then use on what attention see a backwards looking right so when use looking into June to June to have been the nine point one percent and now we looking to July to July the new US update is eight point five percent and we look at a month to month we didn't have much change from June to July Munch munching does not really relevant blister look in the long term That's what we tend to chew. Thanks consideration the fed has staking and has stated publicly that they were going to work really hard on combating inflation and they have stated that target publicly and that's what we seen this decline here on twenty three twenty four so if you look into the twenty two twenty three that that is still kind of high but they start to decline we see IHS Markit change tends to be a little bit lower again because of this sumptuous but that's why we see those numbers declining as we look in the future and right now we're looking at things that have happened from twenty one to twenty two thank you. Are there any other questions. All right CNN thank you thank you for that report Preciado that the numbers look good that's a. This is great. It's great all right we'll move to Adamski. A discussion the medical process estimates. In our group from us the single group is coming up. They have some information for us also. You go ahead. I mean a lot for me to okay I'll we're gonna come back and talk about these numbers in terms of what we're actually going to recommend this is just a report to us are we saying we're talking about what he just gave us yes we'll talk about how we're going to use that number that's right well we when we get completely through today we're gonna talk about a few things so is that gonna be one of them while I'm sure absolutely okay I just wanted to be sure thank you okay. All right gentleman As Mr Patrick Klein you Mr mat first thing first three. Thanks for all the job I'll let y'all do yourself so I get it right so just introduce yourself for the record and you're ready to present this Patrick Klein with seal and Matt Kersting Siegel. Whatever you're ready okay. So good afternoon everyone are we are here today to discuss the the adequacy term the accuracy of the proposed a three dollar minimum district contribution for the twenty twenty three school medical budget for twenty three and beyond so in order to go about that process together data from from the school districts the participation levels contribution levels four as of current we based our projections off of Milliman claims projections and as of eight five twenty twenty two I with one significant change associated with that those projections that were provided I did not take into account the transition to the Medicare advantage prescription drug plan for the retirees starting in fiscal twenty twenty three so we've adjusted those numbers both claims and contributions downward to take into account that transition for the retirees going through this we we confirm some items with with B. L. are in order to do these projections are confirm the minimum contribution only applies to enrolled active contracts as part of the program that the minister contribution is not currently scheduled to increase with medical CPI so uh we've done projections a couple different ways with that number remaining flat and also showing what happens if it were to increase and the Department of ed contribution is one that does increase from the the the current hundred forty two million that will increase with medical CPI going for so we've adjusted that that's included in some of the projections that walk through from here it just sort of. Given a sense of where we stand today based on our projections we think the funding is adequate for the short term it is likely going to be needs that needs some changes in the longer term to account for the medical inflation associated with the program over the next five years. This first rejection just takes into account our understanding of of current law as it stands today so the assumes medical I mean district contribution that we have in place here is that Senate three hundred dollars and as you'll see in this projection that is expected to remain flat over the five year period that we're looking at and that ties into to the numbers that you're seeing on the the total income peace total income for the programs comply comprised of four different components the minimum district contribution I employee funding which consists of employee and retiree contributions to participate in the plans department of education funding which is increasing at medical CPI our projections and we have here as other which is essentially prescription drug rebates that are coming back into the plant. I'll just jump in real quick so the employee funding I know you ET and no man they presented a plan to get to an eighty twenty subsidy split so we're using those employer contributions that are scheduled to tap into the future. Yeah but this would deferred employee funding would differ what you may have seen from similar many be projections because does take into account the reduced contributions for retirees. Not sure why. So the employee funding takes into account the transition to the Medicare advantage prescription drug program we've assumed seventy five percent of the retirees would move to the MA PD in these projections are to the extent of those numbers differ in in actuality it added at time of enrollment these numbers would change slightly but that's the assumption that that is is incorporated here for both the medical claims projection an employee funding projection for the for this piece so. Just sort of going to the bottom line here taking into account medical claims in total expenses were projecting a net income over the next two years that's that flips over to a net deficit in twenty twenty five. That being said there is sufficient funding for four more years in this program based on these projections but funding would fall below the target reserve we senate.ar.gov reserve we've been here in the past I proposing some target reserve projections we set the number at a range of twelve to fourteen percent what we're showing here is the midpoint of those projections that that for fourteen percent of those numbers so in twenty twenty seven you see the the total assets go read are you still positive for total assets but it's below the projected target reserve a fourteen percent which is eighty nine million dollars in twenty twenty seven. Stop there see if there's any questions. Your questions are a representative mix. Now more is good for questions so the question I have been looking on the medical claims for twenty twenty three you have the medical claims at three twenty eight and then by twenty twenty seven they jumped four fifty five that seems to be the main cost driver so that's over a hundred and twenty dollars roughly increase over the next five years what is driving that increase that seems like that's the biggest driver of the deficit yeah it is and there's this really two pieces that are driving that increase the one is increased participation in the program you're or years it is expected increase in enrollment in the program by roughly two percent per year so that's a a portion of it the other pieces just medical trend so for the claims rejections that were using here we're assuming a six percent increase year over year and in medical claims so those two combined together our our building your annual year over year increase and and projected claims thank you and those assumptions are the EV's actuary Milliman they're using those assumptions so we've looked at it we you know for other state clients that we're doing projections far that's that's reasonable so that's that's really something comes from thank you. Represent god for. Thank you Mr chairman this I'm here but that this question may actually be more for and the chairs of the committee or first I just need a little bit of a clarification on where this three hundred minimum it is it currently in law have we already passed that or is this a recommendation for the next session and if so will that be for the next by any and I just need a little bit of help and in determining where that three hundred currently lives in what we're trying to decide to do with that. The three hundred is already in the law that we're doing now we will have to just this up if we start running below I think what they're telling us we're good for a couple more years but it's probably this next session will probably have to run new legislation that will keep us caught up with the and it into the mystic approach a little more about it but we do have to change this two actually I think we have made a. Remarks we did this last year that we would have to come back this next session and change that okay thank you for the clarification so our recommendation out of this committee will be this announcmenet this this minimum just a contribution for the next biennium which would include this year of twenty twenty five when we start going into the red is that correct well I will probably have a a recommendation in our adequacy for the next biennium because that's going to be pushed it out into the twenty four twenty five you thanks so we'll have to have some kind of recommendation that's what we will have to sit down with all the experts and put all this together for those two years to see exactly what is going to be. I don't know if it makes sense now we have a couple more side ago through so yeah we're just kind of getting into that right now yes so if you'll you know stick with us through the rest of the presentation you'll see where they have different recommendations and what we really drill down on through the executive subcommittee with the single group was really making sure that we have a reserve because we didn't have one previously really because we were constantly having to do one time bailouts of general revenue to stabilize this whole employee in a public school employee Program self funded insurance program and so to avoid those one time you know huge dumps of state general revenue into the program to stabilize that we need to build that into the system tell me if I'm incorrect here but right and then this is kind of the process of building it into the system is to make sure that you have a good balance between the district contributions the state contributions and then the employee contributions and then understanding how these costs are going to rise and account for that and then bill that reserve in so we can avoid you know that potential feet in the future I believe your next slide the lesser I I appreciate the clarification I'm sorry to jump the gun so I'm glad that you ask questions because it gives you perspective when you're listening to the rest of the presentation to know kind of where we've been and then what we're trying to achieve what what's the goal here so y'all can elaborate any more I would like to say you know historic questions coming up on this and then we'll move on if you're okay with that are you on yeah I just like to add one thing so just when we look back historically of what happened the district contribution was barely increasing at all it was like a one percent increase and then we have this department of ed funding that you can see goes up from one forty two to one forty seven one fifty three so now under that act one eleven that's going up with CPI medical CPI that used to be fixed and then sometimes it wasn't affects those one time money that would come in and then it wasn't there the next year so you know it's basically like a bandaid that would. If meet the financials for the short term but then down the road there were these big gaps between the expenses in the Revenue. Senate. Thank you Mister chair I want to get a clarification on the projections for the medical cost. Did you say that that is determined by that was determined by ET de or is in concert with Siegel who who is actually making that determination yes so the the projections that we use here were based on numbers produced by Milliman whose you beauties actuary we've refused to review those numbers historically I know come very close in the projections the one change that we made was to account for the transition of the retirees into the Medicare advantage prescription drug plan okay the but you did say they'd they'd come close to that's what I wanted now we just pulling a number from somewhere okay all right okay all right that's great that's all Mr Robson brown. Thank you Mr chair full number on here does it state that these are in millions of dollars so are we to assume that all of these are in millions of dollars on all of these charts yes all the numbers in millions with the exception of the minimum district contribution number that's per enrolled number so it's three hundred dollars per enrolled per month. I think you should clarify your chart of Little thank you. Most all school things or figured for people so that's kinda where that is so it's always per pupil. And I'm it will say that this is what we should know as education members you should know that so anyway thank you you're welcome to go ahead next page whatever. Okay so in one of the things that we showed in that last projection was that funding was that a total assets are going to fall short of target funding by twenty twenty seven but so what we did here was a joshed the assumed minimum district contribution upwards to solve for the proposed target reserve at the end of twenty twenty seven so in order to get to a total asset level of eighty nine million dollars in twenty eight to twenty twenty seven that's three hundred dollars in twenty twenty three we need to increase to three hundred and twenty eight dollars per participant so that would be an increase that would start this coming year and and remained flat over the five year projection period that we're looking at and that would get you to your target reserve that being said it would still result by twenty twenty seven really in twenty twenty five total income would be short of total projected expenses on that number would grow year over year as as that number remains flat those numbers those those target losses year or year would start to increase but it's still based on your current level of assets you'd at three twenty eight you get to the eighty nine million dollars and target reserve by the end of twenty twenty seven. Any questions. All right let's move on. Okay. The last project we put together here so to get to the same place or similar place but we did a little bit different so in this case rather than using a flat minimum district contribution similar to how we did for department of ed funding we increase the minimum distribution with CPI and just for clarification it's in the back of the presentation but we're using three point seven percent for medical CPI it's above some of those numbers that you saw previously medical CPI tends to run a bit higher than that overall CPI in in in the market so we're using three point seven percent increase the district contribution of department of ed funding here you as I said you sort of land in the same place in twenty twenty seven from a total asset perspective but if you look at the the total income lost by twenty twenty seven is a bit smaller so the projected deficit that you would see beyond this projection period what those numbers increasing would be a you being a little bit of a better place if you would increase both of these rather than keeping that one number the minister contributions flat over the period so even though there there that's sort of same target that you hit under these two projections I think we recommend if possible to increase both with with CPI on a go forward basis. So give me your pros and cons about increasing both. Well I mean from appropriate backed into me think you're you're sort of you have a a target to hit from a you're re year increased as a budget that's going on to limit the need for those bandaids that we talked about from that perspective one of the cons and using CPI associated with this as opposed to medically trained or something along those lines is that even in this it's an area you're still falling short of the needed funding by the end of the projection period of two off the top of my head that I can think of passing on a yeah I mean from the get go our recommendation was that the we need to have revenue that grows year over year so this scenario here is definitely the one that we would recommend because not only is your department of ed funding increasing with the medical CPI but we also have district comp contributions increasing with the medical CPI and the medical CPI three point seven percent which falls below our expense transsexual so there still is going to be a shortfall when you get into the out years but this makes that shortfall less significant and then you know. At a certain point if we need to re look at that District contributes shin that increase won't be nearly as much so that's my problem is that sometimes when you I to me you can I'm not sure how this is been dealt with in other areas but if you create a scenario where you have a set amount of contribution and then that has to increase that becomes a bigger deal at that point of having to increase it almost creates kind of a cliff for whoever it is the employee the state the district and if it's built in then it's kind of a known that it's going to steadily increase which to me makes more sense from a budgetary perspective at least from the state yeah I would I would agree from from that perspective I think when we were for proposing changes we were assuming that that all funding would increase at some level whether it be medical CPI or some other number to create that sort of target budgetary increase year over year and reduce the need for some of those shortfall payments that would need to come. you know some of the other options here that aren't included are you know from the plan's perspective you know they know that they need to be working with and say four percent year over year budget this assumes no planned changes no changes to the program really no changes to contributions over the period so there are some levers that the plan could pull on top of this to close some of these funding gaps that are incorporated into this and as you look at this you know as this you shift your year and you're looking at a new four year period there's there's some opportunities for the plans is to help close some of those gaps okay thank you. All right Sir just bill thank you Mr so there's no way you can provide us with the scenario that would get us into the positive in twenty five twenty six and twenty seven that would be then the responsibility of the plant supervisors or whatever of how do you is there any way you can tell us what would be needed in order to make sure that going forward is their number you can give us that we need to go back. Wetherby district contribution employee funding department of a finding of other that would keep us out of that are you totally dependent on EBT to do that through the plan Leding for for the for. Thank you and we can definitely give you what that what that number would be because of the medical trend I think if you combine the medical assumption the pharmacy assumption in the administration you're probably around six point five percent so instead of that three point seven percent increase it be increasing that district contribution around that number but yeah we could we could run the numbers and see what what that would come out the other I mean the easiest way to get there would be to increase that year or year increase to both the district contributions department that funding from the three point seven percent. But there is there's propose ways to make changes to the plan as well to get there so you can cut it for me there increased funding or reduced expenses to apply changes and it would give us two perspectives both yours and the perspective of the plan of the plant managers Mr Koppel first to get that with the objections presenting that to us at the next meeting from them as well as the plant manager so we have two perspectives on how that would work. I will do that if you have a if you could work at a force you know you can get it to it to us or get it to Yeah I'll just add one thing so it if you've ever you've been given this stuff to you can just get them to get into this if if we have no net loss in twenty twenty five and beyond if we look at the total assets and twenty twenty four were two and four million so that number never declines if we if you provide a Serra scenario where that stays flat from there we do have a target reserve and that two hundred four million will be well above the target reserve so I just wanna make that point that at the end of the period in twenty twenty seven we're saying the target need to be eighty nine million so you would be over a hundred million above that so that's just one of the. Flawed yes from that's an area that I can think of being a visual rather than artillery learner US thank you that much. All right represent love. Thank you Mr I think I'm a little bit at a loss to because I'm like Senator Chesterfield but I've but are we looking at the the net loss the net income loss are we looking at the total assets what I mean what what are we trying because whenever I start seeing the going to the radiant I'm getting concerned. That so so help me out here. Where you work where okay like right now so if you look down at the total assets for twenty twenty three read almost two hundred million dollars our target reserve that's what we want to have In the bank basically that's sixty four million dollars a we're not a surplus position right now so I would say it's okay to see some red to get us you know more in line with that target reserve okay so help me get comfortable with that allies are to see some re it. Because right basic standpoint because I'm not I'm not getting it why is it okay to see some worry it I make you help me yeah because our total our total assets are at one ninety one hundred ninety six million dollars and the target for the fund to sixty four million. So we have a a surplus sizeable surplus currently. So the the idea behind it was to sort of buy into some of that surplus to to work down towards a target reserve you know what we were looking at this target reservists of what's needed in access to claims expenses in order to fund the program so I think you know over the long term you know if we moved out a year and we're doing this projection that would need to be some additional funding coming in through one capacity or another because you would start to fall below that that eighty nine million number that that number is increasing about seven million a year so call at ninety six million dollars and twenty twenty eight as your target reserve you'd likely fall below that in the next year's production due to the fact that sixty four million in total loss year over year be projected to grow so that would be some levers that we need to get pulled over that period as you pass out year what we're saying here is that in this scenario over the five year projection period there isn't necessarily something that needs to be done today to to adjust the program but they're they're likely are some things you need to do over the next four years to ensure that that sixty four million dollars as it continue to grow so that sixty four million dollars to the maintenance and a fusion of one time cash or anything is that what you're telling me. I know it wouldn't be because the target reserve at that point would be the soba of the target reserve of the fourteen percent but I think from a projection basis over the period you have time to make some smaller changes so that sixty four wouldn't necessarily be sixty four in twenty twenty seven it would be lower and you do you could potentially be above that that level so I mean that's it the idea of looking at it this way over a five year period with the target reserve number in places to give me the opportunity to make changes over a broader time horizon as opposed to needing to have you know this five years between now and twenty twenty seven so there's little changes that could be made to the program to ensure that you're not going to get to the level that you're at but we're we're just showing that total assets even in this scenario which the priest does social some red and twenty twenty seven you would still hit your target reserves in that year but in the twenty twenty eight if we went out one more year that might be more significant changes that would need to be made. Okay thank you Mr. Or any other questions person makes. My question is real brief on the the the assets and I probably should know this is there any returns generated as a entrez brokerage that kind of thing. That would help offset some of these negatives or are you just assuming no returns on that on those assets. And I think that some of the reserves I mean rebates or one of the big pieces and the other income I think that's an income that's built into that other as well okay you were not assume. We're not now yeah. Also you're not assuming any sort of investment income so we're if we have some investment income of five percent that could help offset some of these numbers yeah okay thank you. President Gabrielle thank you this is actually about one of your assumptions and caviar at the end of the presentation for not there yet I can come back to them I thought that was the next little section and I just had a question about that seventy five percent of retirees choosing the Medicare advantage plan and do we have any data on if that's on track if it is around or more than seventy five percent who are choosing that plan we won't know until open enrollment which is a little later on okay so thank you. The way the program is structured though I think all retirees gonna be enrolled into the program and have the opportunity to opt out and based on that set up with other plans we've seen relatively high and and numbers that would stay but that is that is a fairly large is something that's built into this at this point. That's all the questions we have. Anything else yes no that's that's what we have to share today for today okay so if you could work at other up for saying just send it back to is a minority jail. Okay yeah Senate bill okay thank you thank you. Adam if. Presentational preliminary drafts of the two thousand twenty two adequacy report Mr Lee hope. I'm ready to the red station I'm here with you're welcome to start thank you Julie helped with the bureau of legislative research the policy analysis and research section and with the completion of these two reports today you have now heard all of the individual presentations and reports for the twenty twenty to adequacy study so we are now ready to present the preliminary report and it is on your desk labeled handout F. one. And the power point presentation that I have which is very short and is labeled as to. So just as a reminder as you'll probably remember Taylor Lloyd telling you all this back in January when we began this process but like you the Supreme Court thank you decision of two thousand three is really the impetus for why we still gather today to do the adequacy study in that decision the court set out that that it was that to the General Assembly in the state to define adequacy and also to ensure that Arkansas school children receiving an adequate education on an equitable basis. Also in that decision was the charge for the General Assembly to exercise constant vigilance and as and to that end the General Assembly that your past ACT fifty seven which call for this biennial adequacy study process. The M. this actually marks the tenth time that these committees have gone through this process the first was in two thousand and three with education consultants Allen Aden in Lawrence picus and they took the committees through what they call an evidence based approach and developed the matrix which is still used as the backbone for figuring out what that foundation funding to support advocacy is going to be after working with Aydin picus are section the policy analysis and research section was created and the the goal of this section is to provide the committee with the independent source of evidence and analysis as they make their decisions. In two thousand seven the M. legislature roads the accuracy report statute and you're used to seeing that each time because that's in your advocacy tracking sheet and the first two columns are what's actually in the statute the final column shows the reports to ensure you that every element in the statute has been covered during the study and as you read through that you see that it follows the evidence based approach that was developed with the idea in practice that original year. So to that end the study always tries to provide for kinds of evidence been there possible obviously there's analysis of Arkansas data so looking at the pending the spending achievement data program specific data the studies also have always looked at what other states are doing and you may remember that this year we right but we developed three sets of states to have a constant consistent comparison throughout the reports the statute also calls for looking at the latest literature to find out what the best practices are in that professional literature and then also Arkansas educator into it and from the get go this included the surveys of superintendents also for intendants of always been surveyed and the response rate to my knowledge has always been a hundred percent a few years later the study added the surveys of principles for another perspective all principals are surveyed and why we don't reach a hundred percent this year we reached seventy five percent which I think is the highest response rate for that group and then the most recent grade to be added is a survey of teachers and we serve a sample of the thirty five thousand plus teachers out there this year we sent surveys to about two thousand and received responses from about fifty five percent. We worked really hard this year to organize our presentations and to come but story of adequacy so we started back at the beginning with that state level funding how the State of masses the fans it dedicates to education how those are disbursed to the school districts and charter systems how the as local Ellie As then spend those funds what it buys so we took that close look at teachers and curriculum and at different programs for special populations of students and then we came out with an Jean looking at student achievement outcomes and also what are federal and state accountability systems and found. And you'll see that organization reflected here in our calendar of presentations again starting back in January here we are in September six you've heard the forecast amber presenting the preliminary report I did want to point out when date that also shows that in statute and that's fourteen days before the final submission of those reports to the governor and the leadership of the house and Senate but committees are to publish straps with their recommendations and so just wanted to make sure we were all aware that. On November first when the final reports are submitted and will consist of two volumes and this preliminary is this will be an final format by then and it will be volume one and you'll see that it up there twenty one sections the first twenty R. as string down versions of all of the reports you've heard since January and then section twenty one is waiting and we will include your recommendations after they's have been decided upon Then in volume to that simply consists of everything that's in this big binder you have and it's all the full reports in all of the power points. I. We have the. It It and it I'm sorry Senate yes that is very hard to read and I'm sorry did mention that but it is on your desk. It should yes that's on your desk. The other slide. It's somewhere in your binder resonance missile at the story of the ESR diagram. The little Williams and. It is of use as is organizing the presentation go ahead let's hold. So finally wanted to call your attention to the worksheets and if you've been on the committee before you're recognized this is a worksheet we provide just to help members as they think through the process of advocacy so we try to put each decision step it is possible on to the worksheet of the changes this year. And this is hand out F. three. that we've added numbers to the road just make it a little easier you'll see that the definition of adequacy is at the top this is something that and I think twenty eighteen there were some changes to the definition last year there were not so this is something you may or may not choose to work with but it does have a lot of what you hear an ACSI reports the other changes you see have can are resolved of legislation since the twenty twenty report so a lot of what you heard today lines five and six deal with that those changes to the health insurance program I want going to those because and there's been good discussion already. And then in line seven eight nine when you're looking at the school level salaries that use that. Because the health insurance is pulled out separately from the salary considerations we've tried to create that and pull that out so you can see with the base salary is with the health insurance when you determine what that's going to be is and then the other benefits with your retirement social security Medicare does come up to twenty three percent of base salary so we can calculate that add it all together divided by your five hundred students and come up with your per pupil amounts so we've done that for each line and in which you do set a salary and the other things that we've done here is the past four years there's been an adjustment below the matrix for a person is for retirement because retirement is increasing from fourteen percent to five fifteen percent and then there was that sixty four dollars that was added for insurance we have pulled that out proportionally for each employee and put that on the corresponding line of the matrix so you don't have to fool with that number below the matrix anymore so you see we've done that in twenty twenty three and that just provides you a starting point for your future decisions. The M. last thing that's been added by statute since twenty twenty and maybe look at line thirty of the worksheet. that there are two acts during that regular sessions six Indy nine and six eighty and it required the education committee's during this adequacy process to establish a statewide target average salary for the next biennium. And in twenty twenty one that salary was average salary was set at fifty one thousand eight hundred twenty two dollars and this is the figure that's used with that enhance salary supplemental funding and to help determine which schools are an eligible to receive a portion of that funding. So with that I am pleased to say that we respectfully submit their preliminary report for the twenty twenty to adequacy study. All right yes. Without going back can you there was so much confusion about who actually is part of the teacher salary fund line item. So there's a lot of people that thought superintendents were included in that amount can you define those categories so that everybody understands what we're talking about line item seven line I'm a nine am nine. Right and and then fifteen who where and how who those people actually are when you look in at who is funded by those line items. For the for the teacher line items that everyone in the matrix of five and so that includes nurses counselors special education teachers and we've if you look and the pending report of your Fleming airy beginning on page C. were restart that on page fourteen we we began with office staffing position so that's kindergarten teacher's classroom teachers in all grades and what's called the PMP art music teacher special education teachers instructional facilitators librarians and media specialists school counselors nurses and other people supports. And then the separate lines is For your principles and then another line for your secretaries. Then the other positions and I may need some help knowing exactly with these positions are That supervisory aids there's one position the same on that line there are two positions the same in operations and maintenance and another two point four positions included in your first same for your central office. Okay I I just sing okay there's gotta be a little bit more clarification what was that your program is yeah yeah what can we get a list because I think it I mean I'll be glad to see his included in central office who's included in quote unquote teacher and maybe we need to do not define that as teacher okay it's not included in the teacher and you don't know that our salaries for those positions they're down and that is just the category that writing over off bending and there's no real salary set for that is yes I and I know that we don't set salaries that's the school boards and school districts but the general public seems to not understand. We have to make sure that what we do here is communicated clearly to our constituents and to the public and to the folks that work in the system. And I don't think it is right now but not on you that's on us. Reserve bank. Thank you Mr chair. My question has to do with the the teachers surveys and things that you get up in the in the questions around this I just recently learned of when I was commission looking into. Student teacher ratio within the school districts and. There's similar to what this centers question was Who is considered an educator or or whatever and I came up with the I was introduced to a new term that maybe I should non but I did which was a I think was teacher of record or educator of record and that's a term that's actually used to determine whether someone is considered as a teacher or not all right so so my question is is that who got your surveys and if so could you elaborate a little bit on what that you know what what's requirement that gets me into that is it fifty percent of yeah I I I educate fifty percent times therefore on my salaries included in that or not could you elaborate on that just a bit I can send you because we have a real specific that we send out to say these are the teachers that should be included and I'll be glad to send you that email it is confusing because in the matrix there's one definition for all of those above the line it's included if you the NEA numbers for review we report average salaries they include strictly classroom teachers some not counselors not librarians and the A. S. R. for that and the department's annual statistical review where they report an average teacher salary and then we try to reconcile with that that includes everybody but nurses so it it it really does I understand get confusing we. And I'm going off memory so I will have to send you this but I believe we we try to get all classroom teachers plus librarians and I believe we include counselors I don't know of anyone back there can correct me. Okay I think that the. Of my. I'll be glad to email that to you because it's it's spelled out. Yeah the Arkansas. The definition of I think it's teacher educator of record did it. When you. The concern the confusion I have is is that you would talk about it I've heard the term question teacher obviously but the with the classroom teacher does that mean I'm a classroom teacher not to hunt percent of what I do all right classroom teacher fifty percent time those are the issues and and I guess it comes up with your survey as to who's entering the surveys if it's is. Educator of record term or not. The the list for Sir it's me the list sorry at the list for surveys each teacher assigned to teach a class not pair professionals that certified special education teachers but not school psychology specialist therapist or other clinical professionals ELL or ESL teachers but none who perform purely administrative functions A. L. E. teachers media specialist guidance counselors instructional facilitators and academic coaches and then P. E. art music teachers and teachers of elective courses at the high school level junior high school levels. So that's our that's our list that we specify in the survey. Thank you. Thank you Mr chair one of the ways that. we define we're in the classroom was that we work nine months a year. Your counsel is invariably work ten months a year. Which means that they're going to make more money librarians usually work at ten months a year so when you throw them all together it does make it. Disproportionate I thank it's yours if you will because it's not really telling you what a nine month contract person makes a year people assume that we get paid for twelve months we just get a pro rated over twelve months but the major difference and we need to look at those people who work a nine month contract. And find out what they make per year and that would help me determine then what the real salaries of teachers are all over my educators. But there are differences in the method the contract which means this summer making more and it makes it seem as if average salary is greater than it really is for those of us which I guess that talking in the present tense but those those individuals who work a nine month contract. Am I making sense yes ma'am course and historically is the way we've we've use these to not distance right better and in averaging the teacher salary we've tried to align with what's in that disease annual statistical report so that's that's how we've come up with that definition but if this body wanted us to follow save any a definition that really was more narrow or any definition that you might have we're we're here to do what you want so we like to do that it would be helpful to me I don't know what they're Act I can't speak for the rest of the committee but if we're gonna talk about strictly teacher salaries we need to deal with those individuals who work a nine month contract and not those individuals were ten months because it indicates that they will automatically make more money and raise what we're talking about average teacher salaries I think that gives a false impression of what people are really making I'm looking at number sixty eight number seven School level salaries and you're saying a base salary of fifty seven thousand two hundred eight dollars. As a rookie. I know that that's not the base salary for the state of Arkansas is thirty six thousand so what I was saying fifty seven thousand is the base salary help me understand this comes from the salary that is with that in the matrix for twenty twenty three and all we did was back out to the costs for health insurance and then the cost for those others and so what is said in the matrix so we're not saying that's what we do we have an inmate that's within the matrix yes ma'am and we've never really reached the level of the matrix. I would have to go back and look at that I think we've reported this year that we ten and that the actual average is usually a little bit less than what's in the matrix yes as far as the salary is concerned I'm not talking about what the additional addition of all the benefit rider when we would actually use the base salary right when when we calculate for the report that's using the base salary thank you thank you Mr. The representative McKenzie. Thank you Mr chair I have a question trying to understand the process a little bit so we have this report and this information that you've been sharing with us are almost a year now and I know we've got this the Department of and against his contracted with forward Arkansas four H. two hundred fifty thousand dollar contract a memorandum of understanding is in my go through what we're asking them to report I can't figure how was a great deal different than what we've been getting from you all for the past ten months so my question whether for you refer the chair is number one is that something we've been doing every year contracting with another group number two will we hear a report from forward Arkansas on them and have some more questions but wanted to understand what that how that dovetails with what been doing here for the last ten months. If the department of its contracts with someone that has nothing to do with this or anything we're doing here that would be something for them now we do have a written recommendations from forward Arkansas on policing one of your practice option we set those up everybody we did not okay we have some that we can send out to you that that they I call everybody's wish list that they they do every time you know they they ask us about the certain things they would like to have we have those and they will go out to you I think we just discussed those recently but So we have some stuff yes from them but is not to pertaining to what they're talking about which talk about with them. I just want to thank you may be either I guess the refined light for me on a maybe other people care and I do and I know that I do because it seems almost identical to what they've been compiling for the last ten months so I'm I'm wanting to know why and really where that's going and if we're going to hear that report the prevalence and or meetings. So they're just you know get everything from what I could do that report then for a lot cheaper than two hundred fifty thousand so I guess that's what I'm wondering I'm just kidding. that would be something department would have to answer on that thank you Mr. All right I have no other questions anymore would just medical again on those written testimonies from different organizations everybody is open to provide that written testimony and that they can submit to us and we'll make sure that the members of the committee have those have those written testimonies but I would just again state that if you are submitting a written testimony I want to see literature I want to see what actually works not just what you want but again what other states are doing that you think is the best practices what the literature that you're quoting submitting the different ideas and how those ideas are generated I want to see that information from the different associations or organizations that are submitting any written testimony is to us I don't want just you know a balance sheet of more money more money more money more money more money without some actual backup of. Why. To be Frank so. That's just a fight that's that's what we're looking for. Tuition questions for. Okay. I have a couple questions so for the people who submit what they want us to know from their perspective if we have a question about something they submit can they just come to the Mike and answer my questions or your question or how we want to do that because it sometimes this is helpful to me to just have a conversation somebody else talk to me and not just have me read it to me understand what you're asking for I'm asking you what you ask everybody to submit their thought superintendents I guess I guess as we were talking to a welcome to you talking to we will I'm talking with they always submit something we started this about four years ago no I was asked by a couple of the different organizations superintendents association a other ones school board association a one know if they could tell us kind of what they would like to see and we sure we we started doing that so they submitted one this year too and we have just we just got think we've got a mall now So would you it's just things that by a normal things I want every year I mean this is I mean I guess is what their ideas of what we need to do that we need. So that I to be clear that the. The people eat you were just saying if you have something you know per Madam chairs remarks. If you submit something you know be sure is backed up and so forth I'm assuming that says to me somebody's going to submit something to a some paper and I know we do it that way and we've been doing it for some time which I think I'm on record I will be on record now I just think it's always better when we have a conversation with people so what I'm asking is if we wanted to ask them a question about something or get some better understanding about something they submit to us how do we clarifies can we just haven't come to the podium to the table and clarify it for spread in here you go we're running out of time you try to get this done this is some of the things we got way behind in the early parts of this year trying to do things and we're we're still behind if we're gonna get those out to you all and you can look through them if you have a question you would like to answer I would I would suggested you you asked them you know you can get him to send you a comment on that are you mean personally personally personally because I mean everybody's going to have something different they're going to pick out of those and so I mean we do not have time to spend another month here we have we're kind of limited on our time so next month we're going to have to vote on this and get this all in place so what we're looking at today and what we're looking at for next month is to put numbers in here and We've got to have that done first message here I do understand I actually do understand that at this point and we. Have a no I know I can always call up somebody and ask them a question but I guess I would just say going forward as I have been for the last four years because I think it was a mistake when we stop having people come and talk to us I took that position than when we started doing it so I understand at this point but I think going forward there's a lot to be said to hearing people's voices that's why I was asking an argument we have done that the past we just got these in late and we do not have time to schedule them now okay of B. five different or six maybe different groups yeah I am clear on I'm clear on that point I just think from the very beginning we ought to think about these things and we met so much this time we probably would job anyway because we couldn't stop legislating bless our hearts the the other the other question I had just so I'm clear no we've been talking about raising the teachers salaries and that we were going to do something about the teacher salaries. During the session in adequacy of whatever. For her five in me where we are on what we're going to be doing well by law we cannot do anything right now in raising teacher salaries because we're out of the session yes so we have to if we're gonna raise teacher salaries would have to do it the very first of next year okay so that's because I want to be able to answer people's questions because we have we have put we have a set adequacy and going into the session we can make these suggestions please yeah just what we have to make is what we're going to do. For them if we did something very first of the next session that we need to adjust our adequacy right for right now what that would be and to add that to it so that that's what we I believe me I've been working on that and talking about it. So we're we're getting there we just don't have all the numbers that we got to have all these numbers that we're still waiting on to even get close so that's what we're waiting unless the bill all the committee be involved in that process. Well is it as far as all the committee going to be involved and what process the process that you just mentioned that you've been working on something and looking at it well that's what next month is yeah I mean that's what next month is what here's what I'm going to charge committee with the day agree or disagree with me I want you to go over this matrix handout number three that she gave you do you see the numbers last session you probably have one from the two sessions before that shall be increases. I need to know what your numbers what you think it needs to be what changes we need to make and we need those back to us the two cheers we we should give them to us so we can send said Anna put those together and I will bring it back and and that's what we'll spend the next two days of next month's going over. Can I call. I'm sorry thank you bye when. Hello what what as soon as you K. because of me to still take some time to actually put all this I'm still waiting on numbers for I'm. Trump will gardeners so waiting on numbers for our Building sport we go do facilities facility I could get that down so. And Transportation so those of things I've got a I've got to talk with you about transportation and we're waiting on a number for that what we are to get that so those are some of the things we still got to get together so all the things that you guys have and I will put all that to the committee members if you have something you want to send us Senate on the Senate side send it to us Senator Irvin and on on our side said it to myself so yet let me just follow up let's let's just say September twentieth is two weeks from today. So September twentieth if you have recommendations please for those by September twentieth to us when you have your recommendation it would be helpful for you if you will take this handout number three an organizer recommendations so that its systematic or perhaps miss Nelson we could develop us as sheets. And that we could send out to the committee members and we can organize their recommendations that way yeah why don't we do that I work with her today and then we'll send out a recommendation is that okay I want. Recommendation it needs to be a lot number online and right now what you're talking so let me just I'll just develop a little chic space on this worksheet with us representative Cozart with staff and then that way we can organize everybody's recommendations the way that will make it easier for the committee to consider those recommendations and what will we see a voting on those at October. October will it will it will remain on the third and fourth in October October so I'm I'm assuming we'll just at one day and one of the committee is we will vote on all of them perhaps with same day of what I think will start on that Monday one thing on our agenda that that happens. We'll start on Monday. To to be great. Thank you for thank you. Represent dot for thank you just quickly Julie I'm wondering to that point and and kind of getting this number the twentieth is there an electronic version of this like a fillable word or Google dot that we could use that for kind of working on that. That's the yeah definitely we can send that out will shorten the inner try to get it to operate on one sheet for you and then that could be sent animal just in foreign into an excel sheet or well prepare when you can just a risk yes I think you'll get sent out one with fusion yeah I want to I'll get with this whole and we'll send that out to where it's electronic if you want to do a Google doc we can do that or if you want to print it out whatever's the easiest I mean I don't know what the format was already I just figured it probably excess electronically to be nice to be able to type into incentive right yeah I think that that are that's the way I operate begin to fool you she rocked a representative but if you have my my. Thank you Mr did you turn it off without her at all no I'll come back to you going from. Okay. So so this is a maybe a request If if you hand out it says that which is as I understand it is that the base salary in the matrix for people who are educators fifty seven thousand two hundred eight dollars now there there's also some just differences among the committee as understanding as to why to an actual educator is and this is been a point of confusion not just this time but it's been a if you if you go to the southern states other things other states and I was reading they said that her salary is to for teacher in Arkansas's fifty one thousand eight hundred and something dollars so. The point that I'm trying to make is a lot of the confusion that you're hanging around teacher salaries is who is a teacher. A as defined in the matrix as defined by the board of education as defined by the what's the my school info group these are all things that confuse the issue as to how much teachers who gets paid what and and all that is there any way that we can request as a committee of. A report that defines the differences between the different sources that we get these teacher salaries for because that's truly the the the point of concerning a if if you if you Tucker by well every teacher gets with the benefits of all get seventy three thousand one hundred eighty dollars all right I think there's a lot of teachers that would say. Things can't say right here so is what's funded. Until she left over this was funded seventy three about but but the point is you don't think it is I mean I can R. matrix that is it is the. Well we're not going to go there as a school board Rick what I believe that you're looking for is a certified. Teaching degree is going to be a teacher and there's a lot of people that move out of teaching that go into other areas of the school that still hold a teaching degree they may not be a teacher per se in a classroom but they still are a teacher and we'll get those for you and and all the different people that it covers but they are still listed as a teacher as a certified. It is just one point in that if you get all the information on the right but you think about this the room I really want to root problem that we have right now is everyone because different people teachers and some of our classrooms and so we'll have a degree in the the court here what you just said but the point is is if we would somehow. Push that definition as far as Arkansas is concerned this is what we call a teacher's far funding in the matrix is concerned I think it would help us a lot as far as what the confusion related to these issues so if that's the type report I want to say show me the differences and then we can we can come up with that if you broke it other majors it just put teachers that actually are classroom teachers you would have to report different little line items of different people that would fall into that teaching degree but would not be a teacher so are you saying that you would want to break all that out instead of having teacher. School school level salaries for teachers you wanted for everyone the different different categories no that's not my my my point of asking for this report is to make it clear to every person on this committee. You just want as far as we what we call a teacher whatever what does the board of education because the teachers and stuff so to say that how we are act we actually funding teachers adequately are we are we are well we funding each teacher fifty I told the teacher to discuss that with espresso we gave you fifty seven thousand dollars for you so I I you know I talked to school borders are your your superintendent but I think it's unfair because I think there's there's these definition as to what an educator teachers I think it is a determines teacher of record I think is what we want we can have that for you with. With an extra if you don't give me just a little bit and line for we've put in exactly the staffing ratios better in the matrix right now so this is what happens based on and it's based on having five hundred students in a school so point eight five librarians FOR block every five hundred students so you do have that right here but it does roll listed as teachers. That would be a staff there will there listed the school level staff in the in the matrix and make him on that one line for the teacher's yes but they're funded and different line items which is his points he wants to know so principal and secretary you have those in line item for a staffing ratios that they have their own line item of funding that separate from teachers the principals and secretary state yes and any supports other students support staff I'm not sure who that is but if it's a superintendent they're funded out of central offices yeah that's that's the type of information I think that I sent and that does not include the superintendent and some of that is better defined in the pending reports right and we go through a position by position right we'll get that right now. Yeah. Sir just go back to you right thank you Mr chair and and I thank you madam chair for the clarity. So when I presented to you guys a report from one of the superintendent you tell me cannot be presented to the committee is that because it was not presented by a group. Was that the objection to that I'm trying to figure that out. Yes ma'am yes. The state that I was read I presented to you a study by Dr center and I ask you to be presented to the group because of this perspective as a superintendent and I'm hearing you say that each group has the ability whether it be the administrator group any a I mean AT ace etcetera they could presented as a group is that was that the problem with doctor Fincher's report no we do not have time to hear books reports where the last and we just started on the front and all of that. We say has nothing do with him. So okay man man just I thank you you're jumping okay on my I'm sorry I thought you were asking why we didn't hear well I didn't say you had to hear it I just ask that it be presented to the people so that they could read it and get that perspective do we have that report I Senator you know what and the reason that when you start saying I just got a yes we will present that okay not only thank you now moving moving right along there is a I think a part of the difficulty that we have we start dealing with teacher salaries is this we have a minimum salary schedule. Which is thirty six thousand is that right. And then we have a minimum base salary as defined in the matrix which is. Fifty seven thousand dollars and that gets to be confusing I think to the general public since we know that the base salary in this state is only thirty six and yet we look in a matrix that sayings is considerably higher is there anyway we can gain clarity all we all we in dealing with attic was going to make submit suggestions to the minimum salary schedule for teachers is that going to be a part of what we do. I think what we're what is wanting to do coming up in this session and are into impacts will be in the next session is to bring that minimum salary up. And have that now the the medium salary was a That was a move to get them the. Everything from there on up and get a medium salary someone stagnated and and the medium levels so that was what that pushes I'm sure we're probably going to continue that so they'll still be a medium salary base in there I think we need to. Can I will we will do a follow up okay your committee I mean I mean raising the question so when you follow up we're on the same page okay we are anticipating as we finish with adequacy. A proposal that would increase the minimum salary schedule in the matrix base is that what we're trying to do. Is that we're gonna make recommend our biggest goal is going to be to move the minimum salary up I don't know what that number will be yes I don't know exactly all the things is a lot of legal work we got around to to get there and so I can't tell you exactly what to be but that is our goal to bring okay himself okay minimum salary of yes okay can I can give your you're welcome to I mean again there there's gonna be recommendations so you can recommends whatever you want as a member of this committee you can we can recommend what you want to see that you know it could be my information and I think the Department of that we might need to have them chime in but is art what is our new average teacher salary in our new average teacher so it didn't work did the teacher stable equalization salary fund work that's a department of ed question because my understanding is we exceeded the goal of fifty one thousand and so I I want the department that Ted to clarify that. So we've exceeded that goal we've seen that that works. Is it is that the is that a good thing to have a minimum salary salary standard in law. I don't know if it is or not to be honest with you there are some states that don't have a minimum salary schedule now there's a safety net but the problem is on the flip side of that if you only go up to fifteen then some school stop then then you've got veteran teachers you don't ever see a raise because they're just following that statute so you know that's a conversation that might need to happen. Is do we we even want to set a minimum salary. Because you kind of box yourself in when you do that because there are some schools that already exceed it that don't even follow that statute they've already exceeded it there are some some rules schools that are smaller schools which you have to take into consideration. Because they don't have necessarily the millage bass of the property tax base to support a large salary increase. And so we've got to make sure that we take all of those things into consideration at least for me I do because when you have a school that has a you know the lowest millage in the State of Arkansas or the third lowest or the second lowest or the fourth lowest what are they what are their salaries one of those look like and if the state put something onto a smaller district that they absolutely cannot meet that obligation then we're going to force them to doing something down the road that we may not be good for students so you know those are all considerations that I think we have to understand what we're talking about this we fund at a certain level but it's dependent upon the school boards and the school districts because of where they're located because of the demand because of the other economic influences around them as to where they set their salaries at. So they have to compete in the labor market. We have to understand that perspective that they're competing in the labor market of their respective areas. You also have to understand our tax base can their tax base support those levels of salaries or not. You know and how we're going to adjust for that are we achieving are we making sure that if we do put more money into a line item of the matrix then is that money actually going to get to the teachers or not that's a huge thing for me I don't want to put more money into a line item that never and say well we increased funding for teacher salaries and then it never gets to the teachers that make any sense to me I don't know about you guys but it's that make any sense to me so you know those are all things that we're going to have to dig in here individually with your superintendents your school districts with your teachers with your business leaders with him ever and in organizations and try to understand that and put all that together is a recommendation you have the ability to do that as a legislator it's up to you to take advantage of the opportunity or not. Question about four Arkansas we're going to have an answer on that the study had two main goals and it is to my goals were to follow up from the original study in two thousand fourteen fifteen and to assess the impact of Covin on Arkansas education that's what the department asks for Arkansas to do. So if you any questions about that that's all I can do is tell you what it was four so you could have talked to them. All right reserved makes you still have questions. You're a. Now Mr. That's you know. I just remember what my question was after. No no no no no it's all good it is actually related so you will understand this is a funding model and you know looking at this prototypical school that fifty seven thousand goes to roughly twenty one teachers in our and our mom school we know in the real world those numbers are going to be very nice and very how that money is is split up and and and divvied up my question is the relationship between this base salary and the minimum salary if we increase that base salary. What is that look or maybe for me let me catch a from the reverse if we increase the minimum salary schedule say a thousand dollars. What is that due to this the base salary. And for every thousand we increase that base salary what total dollars are we looking at because ultimately I don't think there's any fight here about whether we should increase salaries for teachers the question is going to be how much and ultimately that's going to come down the price the the the price so you know if we do a thousand dollar increase thankfully the teachers in my school district are all above the minimum and so even if we dump. Do you know if we move the minimum from thirty six to forty two my school is already paying about forty two so even though we put more money my teachers may not see an increase because our our school district has been blessed to be able to do above that so I know that county so you can't just say okay four thousand times number teachers because that doesn't necessarily mean all the teachers are going to going to see that so can you give us. Some idea because you know during the session we talked about this and I heard a price tag anywhere from three hundred million to six hundred million dollars. That's a huge. So can you put something together says if we want to increase the minimum salary say a thousand dollars or roughly looking at this kind of impact of the budget if we want to two thousand this kind of impact so we can be more informed about ultimately the impact of the state budget is going to have on this. And Katie may be able to a answers on this I know she's done some modeling as if we increase the base five thousand dollars and that's basically thousand dollars times whichever teachers are going to be included in that model so you can come up with that math in a very fairly straight forward bases. We've done some modeling in past years unapologetic in Somerset has not this year but if the increase everyone salary five thousand what is it what would it do to the average and how much it would cost so we can we can do that we have not done that to this point and asked okay if you don't mind Mr that's something or you will represent makes for your bike so she just told you what you can do it you gotta remember if we if we increase it a thousand and also has benefits it right they're not gonna get that hold thousands because that would be with minutes and right where it's freezing it so there are some numbers if you want to know the exact number teacher would get and we probably have to work that up and take the you know the retirement the Insurance all the different things out of it that act actually and there's percentage that you can do that so if if Julie has that is not the I'm not sure if that's something you work of the department workers yeah I'm not I'd be interested in you don't per thousand dollar increase what the teachers would say and also what the impact of the overall state budget would be because ultimately that's going to be the limiting factor is what we can either body every time you go up thousand never teacher all sent thank you. All right that's all the questions we have. I'll ask the department you want to comment on anything we talked about today. If you don't if you don't I have nobody this called you up so. Okay they have no comment so all right. we really hellish shall just wanna meet tomorrow. We do not have a meeting that we need to meet for we actually did everything today but we need you to get those things to us that we're talking about if you have something you want to see we'll get that out would like to see about the twentieth so we kind of work up a sheet and get all that on it we come back October third four is that correct. I do expect I do expect birthday cake on the third is my birthday so. I'm almost there let me talk about me a little bit. What what will have one less birthday first birthday time all the good people were born in the fall you know is anybody have anything else to go before today. I will entertain a motion to adjourn a motion and a second without any other to lay we will be adjourned.