Public Transportation- House

It's been awhile since we've met good to see everyone this is the best looking committee in the old house side so we're going to try to move things along if you have questions Senator want you to ask him but let's try to not get repetitive unless you know me I like to move committee allow get all the information we can but let's let's keep it moving so of. When I start with our update regarding the national electric vehicle infrastructure formally so with our presentation will introduce yourself and your may begin. I'm sorry tutor and the Director of the Arkansas department of transportation. Morning I read makayla upon the director the Division engineer for construction planning and policy that are not. German Holcomb and committee members thank you for the opportunity to share with you this morning the Arkansas Department petitions efforts related to the national after vehicle infrastructure program otherwise known as navy our overall approach to this program has been to me the federal minimum requirements while maintaining a free market perspective in order to maximize the benefits for the state of Arkansas to that end R. naught has determined that we will not own operate or maintain navy charging stations Norway place maybe charming Sturch charging stations on our property this is in compliance with the federal twenty three U. S. Code section one eleven. We do not intend to use state funds for the non federal match to implement the program and charging station owner operators will be required to provide at least a twenty percent of. Matched to the federal funds for the program. My presentation they will cover some basic information about electric vehicles an overview of the navy program the description of the Arkansas electric vehicle infrastructure deployment plan and the next steps in the process. There are three categories of electric vehicles and Chargers hybrid vehicles have an engine the charges an electric motor rather than plugging into a charger or plugging into charge plug in hybrids have an engine and electric motor that can be charged a level one or level two Chargers depending on the design. Level one charger uses a standard one hundred ten volt outlet. it provides approximately a five mile range for charging our. The level two charger uses a two hundred and eight to two hundred forty volts outlook do you the most common types of Chargers in public locations and they deliver about twenty five miles of range per charging our. Battery electric vehicles do not have an engine in addition to the battery they have direct drive electric motors at each axle and the use of direct current or DC fast charger this is the type of charger that the navy programs focused on implementing. These charges deliver approximately one hundred to two hundred plus miles of range for thirty minutes of charge and are primarily for long distance travel. The infrastructure investment and jobs act or easier include seven half billion dollars. for the alternative fuels infrastructure and it has two components the first component is the five billion dollar navy formula program Arkansas is scheduled to receive a fifty four point one million dollars over the next five years and the first to a rock proximally eight point one million dollars is already available. The second component component includes two and a half billion dollars in competitive grant funding evenly split between Evey charging stations and other types of alternative fuels. Never program requires that interstates and designated alternative fuel corridors. have a publicly accessible defeat DC fast charging station every fifty miles and within one mile of the exit. They have to have at least for one hundred fifty kilowatt Chargers that can operate at the same time and deliver up to six hundred kilowatts per hour. By comparison the average US home uses less than nine hundred kilowatts per month. The station must have a combined charging system court which is a specific plug configuration that is common to most vehicles. Recently the joint office clarified that all the charging stations must be operational in order for the state to achieve fully built out status. He. The navy program also requires that forty percent of the benefits from ninety be realized by disadvantaged and rule communities. Currently there are a total of almost five hundred miles of interstates and alternative fuel corridors in Arkansas about sixty three percent of them pastor disadvantaged communities in about seventy percent pass through rule communities in Arkansas. Are not willing gauges with communities to better understand their needs priorities and benefits as we move forward. On September fourteenth for Highway Administration provided an update on certain issues pertaining to the navy program the buy America waiver applies to the obligation of the navy funds for whatever is currently available for the remainder of this year but will be phased out by the end of twenty twenty three. In twenty twenty four finalists simply must be completed in the US and the cost of US manufactured parts must exceed fifty five percent of the total component cost. They're currently request for comments on these rules and so that could change will have to wait for the final rules to be established. The title six of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four applies to the projects funded under the navy program. The disadvantaged business enterprise program does not apply to navy funds and states may not establish DVD goals this is a result of the section under which the federal code that the the bill was passed. Accessibility guidance for charging stations states have been encouraged to consider application of the US access board's technical assistance to ensure that all students have access to the charging stations. We started development of our plan in may we submitted the plan to the Joint office of the Federal Highway Administration an apartment of energy on July twenty ninth our plan was approved by the Federal Highway Administration on September fourteenth. The reviewers commented that our plan was concise and easy to read they noted that we engaged in strong coordination and made great use of graphics two X. help explain the plan. Additionally they submitted our table of known risks and challenges to the federal highway administration's headquarters as a best practices example. Federal highways initial ninety day guidance that was released in June for use in the bill on the plan outlined a formal plan template which included this guidance and we're request were we were required to skews me to address each of the these topics in our plan. The first step in our plan development process was to form a project management team which consisted of staff from our dot staff from energy and environment and Arkansas's clean cities coalition we meet weekly to coordinate on the planned development next we brought in H. in TV the national architecture and engineering firm that has worked with are not on the number of projects to provide us with assistance a major component of our stakeholder coordination was the formation of the Arkansas electric letter cation working group. The working group members assisted with strategic decisions and reviewed draft plans or drafts of the plan components and we will continue to utilize both the project management team and the electrification working group moving forward. To engage with the general public we hosted a virtual public involvement session on June the twenty first they're eighty four participants that attended and after former presentation project management team members address questions of from the. The proposed by the attendees a recording of the event was posted on our navy website for public viewing along with additional information fact sheets and frequently asked questions our plan is also or approved plan is also currently posted on the website. We've also engaged in initial coordination with efforts with our neighboring states in their departments of transportation to understand where the gaps in the charging station network may exist on our borders because our neighboring states are also in the process of developing their competitive procurement process we don't know exactly where the charging stations will be located at this time we do intend to continue coordination with our with our neighbors throughout the remainder of the process. Our objective is to fully build out one hundred percent of Arkansas's interstates and designated alternative fuel corridors until we achieve the fully built out status and to the navy program standards our strategy for accomplishing this is just for investment in AB charging stations through a competitive procurement program for potential owner operators. Once we are certified as fully built out the next phase will be to move to other routes of significance likely US and state routes with high average daily traffic if funding remains after providing sufficient regional coverage or not we use feedback from our on going public and stakeholder engagement to determine additional priorities. Ninety funds will be awarded through a competitive procurement process to third party operators. Our initial priority two is to skews me our national priority for eligible locations we fill gaps in the charging network on the interstates and designated alternative fuel corridors we will establish a past bill criteria around the minimum compliance requirements and a binding agreement as well as additional scored criteria to select final authorities for. The blue dots on this map or existing navy compliant charging stations the bank areas indicate a twenty five mile driving distance from each of those stations this map shows eleven gap segments on Arkansas's interstates and designated alternative fuel corridors that are not navy complying at this time. Several gaps up segments or more than fifty miles and therefore will need at least two electric vehicle charging stations to spend those gaps. The locations directly along our borders could ultimately be served by stations located in neighboring states. Our next steps include the development of the competitive procurement program publication for request for proposals review of the applications making awards executing contracts and then ongoing program management including development of the next annual plan. The timing on all this still remains uncertain until the federal rules are finalized possibly as late as next summer. Once that occurs will have we will need to incorporate those final rules into our computers of a procurement program. This line is just a showing that we are working right now on the scoring criteria that I mentioned earlier that will be used in our application process the basic framework includes the minimum criteria based on program requirements and objectives these criteria would be evaluated in a pass fail basis if an applicant doesn't meet those minimum criteria than their application would not be considered any further. Beyond these minimum criteria we will there will be some number of additional criteria that may address issues issues such as the specifics of a site economic development factors cost and others. Having the past bill portion is almost certain while the rest is still very much open to discussion and evaluation. As mentioned earlier we are continuing in our efforts to reach out to the general public and engage of them as part of those efforts we have developed this map based survey to this map displays the current gaps in the charging station network and we're encouraging any interested parties to use this tool to provide comments or concerns about the locations along the gaps that are of interest to them. The map a survey tool is accessible from computers and mobile devices and is located on our website at W. W. W. dot R. dot dot gov forward slash Evey Plan. Based on information from the top ten Evey charging station companies we're currently estimating that the average cost for one of the charging stations will be a million dollars this includes utility site make ready to make ready. Upgrades hardware installation and everything needed to activate even charging station. At a million dollars per site Arkansas will have sufficient navy fiscal year twenty two in fiscal year twenty three funds to build out approximately twenty three locations. We anticipate this leaving a large amount of funding to build out other key routes the significance an additional Arkansas AB charging station priorities. Thank you again for the opportunity to share this information with you the website here again and all this law does is currently available and the email address is also active if you would like to sign up to receive regular information from us or provide any input feel free to send it to that address and chairman avi glad to respond any questions if you would like. Thank you any questions from committee. The right right. You're recognized yes exact thank you Mr do you have any long range plans for anything past twenty five or fifty miles I mean like if someone ladies say Jonesborough and on the way to little rock initial hundred and thirty five forty miles what did they do and that kind of situations or do they have to break it up and recharge in between there have. Well the the requirements for this program is for charging station to be located every fifty miles so for a trip the distance that you mention they should have access to at least one possibly two DC fast Chargers but if they are running on a charge then yes they would they would need to stop somewhere and recharge their vehicle yes of all of service please well and plus you have that time frame that you're stopping to get all that done okay now if you feel up in jail for when you come down here you know you do it one time and get back to Jonesborough with without another fill up yes Sir so so that that's one we're looking at some additional criteria the on just minimum criteria in the application process we want to see what other types of amenities may be available either at this but. Usman. Specific location where the Chargers will be will be at or near by where someone could get their vehicle charging and then maybe walk a short distance across the parking lot or something like that and have access to some other amenities. Thank you thank you Sir yes. Springer you're recognized. Good morning thank you Mr chair my question is with respect to communication of the this program other than persons going to the R. dot website what other actions have been taken by your department in order to communicate this to the general public well we course we did have the online session or the virtual session when we were developing initial plan as I mentioned we have the the map survey tool that is posted online we've been making these presentations to several committees as well as some community groups around the state but this but at this point those of the efforts that we've implemented can you tell me the other community groups that you've communicated this to well and I said community groups when we've been to northwest Arkansas they had several meetings a related to electric vehicles we did a presentation for the For. I'm trying to the name Arkansas electric coops basically. The final questions to. Of so it may be since we have the chart of the areas where the they're going to be maybe you can focus in on bills yes is that for the line that you show certainly what those locations are just a suggestion. Yes yes ma'am communities in those in those areas yes ma'am okay thank you. Representative Brian. Thank you Mr. Whatever the we figure out who the partners are gonna be the owner operators are going to be and we work funding to them it is all the funding that they're going to be receiving their responsibility to do their own large scale their own the engineering or is the state going to kind of vocalize some of that so we're not having fifty stations throughout the state that are all different different equipment things like that there there are specific requirements within the legislation and while in the guidance and then the draft legislation at this point or as a legislation rule skews me under draft rules at this point that let the OWNEROPERATORS no and the charging equipment manufacturers know what requirements have to be met so the department will not be doing any design work for these applicants that's they know they're they know their business we're not in that business so our responsibility is going to be overseeing the program being sure that all of the requirements have been met and then we locate the stations in order to fill these gaps as well as trying to be sure that they provide the types of amenities that the public might want to have available okay and what a question is is there any anything in the program that limits how much per kilowatt hour that this that the owner can charge to an Eevee participant there's not anything in the the rules related to how much is charged but the my understanding is course will still have to go through the rate commission to to determine how much the charging station operators will be paying but then it's pretty much market prices at that point okay thank you. President Reagan thank you and thank you mark we got it. To be. Okay thank you Mr chairman. Of could you go into a little bit more detail on kind of the interplay between R. dot and the private sector on this. I guess you mentioned that your not gonna be in the business of owning or operating the V. station so I'm guessing you approve the applicants and and all that can can you just going to a little bit more detail on what that process looks like I can I can tell you what we have up to this point this is we're still in the process of the of developing that but at this point is it before they're ready a request for proposals that will describe the program have the the requirements in line with the federal rules and regulations we an application therefore the ask for them to fill out you'll have the minimum requirements they will have to indicate that they meet those in order to continue through the application process then there will be some additional criteria we don't know at this point exactly what those will be it could be something along the lines of please identify the types of amenities that would be available either at your location or adjacent to your location some of these charging stations we envision NO one we all know that we have them at Walmart's now but there are other types of businesses convenience stores as an example retail outlets that we anticipate will have charging stations as well so for the applicant to identify what those amenities are would help us to choose between two competing applicants as an example one of the one of the main things we're gonna be watching for though is for that location will it fill the gap. That we have in our system now because that's what we have to achieve in compliance with the federal regulations and again our goal is to achieve that fully built out status as quickly as possible. So to that point what what does the time excuse me what does the timeline look like when when I mean if you were to hazard a guess when my folks be able to apply so at this point we're anticipating final rules sometime between spring of twenty three in late summer of twenty three we have to have those final rule so that we can compare that to our draft competitive process be sure that were in compliance with all those rules then we can go out with the request for proposals take in those applications to the review selection process they will have to enter into contracts with G. each of those OWNEROPERATORS we're anticipating somewhere between twelve and twenty four months for them to get a station installed and operational that's highly dependent on our supply chain issues a plus we're seeing a ramp up in the private sector already to install these facilities so the charging station manufacturers are already you know seeing a increase in demand and then the outcome of the legislation or the rules on the buy American waiver will also have an effect on that so at this point we from today we could be looking at two to two and a half years before the first charging stations are operational. Represent to let you're recognized. Thank you Mr our minds are questions months more of a comment in in my area there is a bank of charging stations have been put in I would like to see personally as a requirement for the stations that they not be put into a low area because this bank is charging stations when it rains becomes a lake around them and it creates a little bit of a serious safety issue for the people who are charging and so that's just my comment thank you Sir. It is Springer you. Thank you Mr hopefully last question I appreciate your comments with respect to the equity considerations and I appreciate that yes and then the communication to the different areas of the state so you indicated that you would be coming to having conversations with the different cooperatives across the state for the record can you identify this the the cooperatives around the state for that'll be taking place I was renamed the one can you name the corporatist if not then if you would share that information with us I want to put you on the spot for you to okay yes this is not death I just wanna make sure that all the the all those the entire state is covered in is the opportune right right so I don't know the names of all the the cooperatives in what I was referring to was a previous presentation that we made to that group it was the over arching group of the electric utility providers and state not specific community groups also as you can imagine getting around the entire state to have in person meetings which courses the way we did it not too long ago but with the time frame that we have been working with that's that's a big challenge that's why we have decided to use the virtual platforms and provide access to anyone that that wants to interact with us relating to the program well I appreciate that the question is how you look but how do you communicate that some folks may not have the ex the ex is so they may not know that they can go to the website and see that so the question is how do you communicate to them let them know that that's available to them on the website because that has been a problem in the all the meetings that pertinent or people are not aware that they can go to your website and see certain things thank you yes ma'am. Any other questions remain. Seeing none represents presentation thank you chairman of the answer all the questions. State that. Okay okay. we go any further I've got to recognize month last year did you have any common sense more you're fine. Don't usually recognized dignitaries and notice but we got miss prissy Hickerson with us today former highway commissioner and the former chairman of this this committee which I was last year where Stacey I do look. Good to you but okay we'll move on then to I have a question about I. sixty nine minutes the. Hopefully I'm wanting to move along with passion is going to move I know that miss tutors here to give us a little update on that so much lower if you will you can you have a full okay thank you. So good morning everyone and I just give you a quick update on the history and then where we're at as far as implementing the projects in nineteen ninety one I sixty nine quarter with Phyllis as. Identified as a congressional aide designated high priority corridor. It's a very significant freight and trade corridor and it's about twenty seven hundred miles from the Gulf of Mexico to Canada the total cost to build out the twenty seven hundred mile corridor is between thirty five and forty billion dollars there's nine hundred miles that are currently operational of that corridor. If you look at what's going on in Arkansas this shows you that what they've done is they've they've divided that corridor up into what they call segments of independent utility what that means is if that particular segment is built it can be fully operational in Arkansas we have four segments independent utility for the I. sixty nine corridor they include the Mississippi Mississippi river crossing I thank clue the segment between US sixty five Norris from Maggie over to highway eighty two in elder radio and then it picks up in El Dorado therein goes south toward St port Louisiana. Then we also have a segment of independent utility which is the five thirty connector part part of which is already been built. Overall we have about forty two miles open to traffic for the I. sixty nine corridor in Arkansas. So the hundred and eighty four miles of interstate sixty nine and the interstate sixty nine core connector is four point one billion dollars in Arkansas for a fully built out in our state which the. Would you be that would you say four point one billion for a fully built out interstate in Arkansas for. Now we've we've done that we've done the up around forty miles of the connector it's two lanes of the ultimate for we bought right away for four lines but we only built two lanes then we've also built the the Wester I mean that the eastern segment of the Monticello bypass that's open to traffic we recently led to contract the two lanes for of the alternate for from Monticello over to highway two seventy eight. As you can see on this map it's that colored in red and that we just recently opened that to traffic will be having a ground breaking on that city we'll let you know about that representative Holcomb ninety there and then this the second one will pick up their two seventy eight and go over to Mickey that schedule for twenty twenty five it will be building two lanes of that ultimate four lanes the environmental this documents are approved for the entire corridor in in Arkansas and for the great river bridge of the Mississippi River bridge over there near Arkansas city we've already purchased the right away for that segment because of that X. the expense of building that bridge until we get funding in place we won't start construction of that until we know we can completely bill that segment now. As you're aware in November twenty twenty you know Arkansas our cans is approved taking or temporary off the half cent sales tax revenue for highways and before prior to the vote we show them what we would do as far as capital in congestion relief projects across the state for the next twenty years. The funding for this half cent sales tax in these projects begins to be available in July twenty twenty three and included a hundred and fifty million for interstate sixty nine to continue the progress that we've been making I we're in the process of prioritizing that funding for future projects in will be doing a lot of. Public outrage in those types of things to figure out what what we'll do next but the money's there and we'll be continuing our progress on I. sixty nine. This picture is a artist rendering of the future great river bridge so I'll stop there and open it up for any questions you might have. Any questions. All right looks like there's a reason for you appreciate the update okay hopefully we'll see that my lifetime. Thanks for presentation. Okay. Without objection we are going to move Adam eighty up in here it next and is not gonna be a very long presentation then we'll hear out of the last so. Representative Christian if you're you're ready if you bring your presenters up. Amenities itself you may begin. Reporter members for your radio. All. All right here yes Sir. Good morning members can you hear me clearly now clearly we have a L. handout sheet that was passed out to each of you that discusses a little historical overview of Amtrak and its service in the state of Arkansas. So that if you've had time to read it will give you a little background on where we are and why we're here in also is something to take way too well to think about and realize we're we're going to expand the role of passenger service in rail in the state of Arkansas it is my honor to bring forward Mr Derek James Mr Ismael Cuevas from Amtrak's governmental affairs and they will give you a presentation explaining for we are what are proposals are in the state of Arkansas which one would include. Expanding signage and other things around the state and implementing a stop in northeast Arkansas involved knob there has not been a stop in northeast Arkansas since nineteen ninety six when the city of Newport renovated its depot and ousted Amtrak from that facility. So without further ado I would like to turn it over to Derek James and Ismael Cuevas from Amtrak and give them a warm Arkansas welcoming shown little southern hospitality down here in the natural state if you would. general if you will introduce step for you start presentation please. Little closer to my act make sure it's on a go. It It. All right how's that there's actually thank you Mr chairman thank you for the fine introduction a representative Christiansen my name is Derek James director of government affairs for Amtrak. Hello them hello good morning my name is Ishmael twelve US government affairs for Amtrak as well. Thank you will keep this brief this is really just an opportunity for us to introduce and to a talk to a little bit about what we do and what the potential is for improving the ability for the citizens of Arkansas again my name is Derek we glad to be here with you in the capital today just a few blocks from our station down the hill at Union Station which we have served since nineteen seventy four Amtrak was created by Congress with the mission to preserve quality passenger rail service connecting the nation up for the first a hundred and forty years of railroading in America passenger and freight train service was provided by the nation's investor owned railroad companies but changing technology public policy and shifting traveler preferences and options decimated the passenger side of their business making it uneconomical to provide the private freight railroads began piling up millions of dollars in deficits on the passenger side of their ledgers and many roads actually began to declare bankruptcy and threatened to take the entire industry down this is back in the sixties rather than nationalizing industry like many European railroads did a Congress and the administration at the time created a quasi public corporation that would relieve the railroads of their financial burden yet preserve some service to build upon other have been some successful high speed services introduced on roads in our peer nations and the public in the policy makers were intrigued the agreement with the railroads to relieve them of the regulatory requirement of providing passenger service was that they would provide access to their facilities by the new operator that Congress created and that's us and tract inside. Six are from the beginning we've grown to provide service over a twenty one thousand mile network to five hundred communities in forty six states in three provinces in the last year before the pandemic we provide the thirty two and a half million trips on our system and earned three point three billion dollars in revenue and almost for the first time ever we almost broke even on operations covering ninety nine percent of our operating costs then we know what happened after that next slide. Of course the pandemic because ridership deployment we're able to keep the system intact thanks to four point seven billion in relief over several COVID bills enacted by Congress in both the trump and the by demonstrations a ridership has begun to recover steady recovery where we are now eighty percent of pre pandemic trips but because of a lack of equipment and the difficulty of hiring mechanical employees we don't expect to be back to those pre COVID levels until fiscal year twenty four operating ratio declined from ninety nine percent to seventy two percent but our mission is to provide valuable service to the public at the least cost to the taxpayer it'll take time it'll take investments in the system and continuing pivot by us to address the changes in travel demand before we can return to those levels that we saw and fiscal year nineteen next line. Of the investment we seek will I am trying to become a more relevant travel option for Americans we have plans to add new routes more trains and more stations to serve more people if you can go to the image with the map the black lines on this subreddit map represent the Amtrak routes of today this is our vision for court develop we call it Amtrak connects us the golden overlays that you can see say between Oklahoma City and fort worth or between LA and San Diego those are routes that we presently operates service on but we want to increase the service and then the blue lines or routes that we would like to add new service are injected excess plan calls for thirty nine new routes twenty five approved routes with more frequencies and service to a hundred and sixty new places in the country we want double our ridership from the thirty two million we carried in fiscal year nineteen to sixty four million in the next twenty years. Last year's bipartisan infrastructure law included sixty six billion dollars in advance funding over five years for investments in the nation's railroads the funds will be distributed in direct grants to us an Amtrak into competitive grants that the states can apply for to invest in passenger and freight rail projects to improve both passenger and freight rail in your state an Amtrak we're gonna use those grants to rebuild tunnels and bridges were we on the infrastructure upgrade stations and technology and to buy new trains locomotives and passenger cars the new trains and upgraded stations are what our Arkansas customers will see the federal grants would go to states and substitute and it is that work with Amtrak and other passenger providers on improvements and expansion projects seventeen billion is available for states like Arkansas to compete for if they would like to participate. the new locomotives and passenger cars and station upgrades are already coming online expect to see more of that will soon be issuing a solicitation for new coaches sleepers and diners to re equip our daily service through Arkansas the Texas eagle thanks light. before new cars can come online though it's our responsibility to maximize revenue again we want to get that operating ratio back up that means taking steps coming out of the pandemic to make our trains more peeling to customers we've been upgrading stations on top of projects to improve the accessibility we've been adding new lighting smooth level boarding platform signage railings parking a renovated restrooms to make a great first impression for our passengers and serve as a welcoming front door in the communities that we serve the legacy cards that we have some of them dating back to the seventies will be going through and enter your reset refresh with new seats carpets curtains and restrooms are food service offerings are now fresher with healthier sandwiches salads and beverages I will continue to upgrade our technology with flexible customer facing digital options to make a change reservations tricks texturing status and communicate with us directly. Although Amtrak brought passes service back to Arkansas in nineteen seventy four as representative Christiansen mention after a three year absence we restored service over the former mopac route connecting Walnut Ridge Little Rock Malvern in Texarkana to the rest of the national network in twenty thirteen with great local celebration we added a station stop and hope because of local desire and expect to receive an official actually we just got an official request from the merit bald knob with lots of support from some of you to add a new station of all not so we're going to begin the process of that. we hired an architectural engineering firm that are advancing designs for major station upgrades at walnut ridge at Malvern and Arkadelphia and we'll be constructing an attractive new station on the Arkansas side of Texarkana to help jumpstart redeveloping their downtown our station will join projects like the Grand Hotel renovation and showing the potential of that city and all will spend more than twelve million dollars and station upgrades in Arkansas and the next three years twenty six Arkansas residents as a matter of fact work for Amtrak with a payroll of two point eight million dollars annually. And last next live I just want to give you a brief snapshot of Arkansas and the nation where we've been and where we would like to go there are items you could help us with one thing I've noticed is that travel around the state that you're state highways are missing pathfinders are trailblazers telling motorists where to exit for the train station I see signs for airports but not for train stations please consider directing the Highway and Transportation Department to include this valuable traveler information as a matter of fact I think we have a meeting set up with the R. dot this afternoon to discuss this very issue so also short of adding new train service many states use their federal fifty three eleven boss boss rural transit funds to subsidize connecting coach service from rural areas to the nearest Amtrak station brought in communities connection to the larger transportation network we know many Americans do not have reliable access to their own vehicles are too young or too old to drive yet still deserve the freedom and the ability that the rest of us enjoy our mission is mobility we're we offer such connecting bus services nationwide and elsewhere in truck offers through ticketing between the destinations at every station on the Amtrak network so planning a purchase is seamless to the customer we have five hundred train stations but through these interline bus arranges we serve four hundred more rural communities across the country and the last slide thanks so lastly regarding improvements to our rural long distance network the service that we operate here in Arkansas as part of our long distance network Congress is directed the federal government to study and determine the value and feasibility of adding new routes or improving existing routes with more frequencies of the fifteen long distance routes are unique in our system and that the federal government provides us an annual grant to continue the services despite their operating losses Congress deems these routes critical to rural connective itty and wants to see more routes if possible the FRA is beings. is beginning a study to look at all the pre existing routes that may have been discontinued back to nineteen seventy before intricate system public involvement and stakeholder engagement will be part of their out reach a report will be issued to Congress a year from now injecting courage is you to engage with the FRA if there are services decisions that should include Arkansas and thank you for your time and would certainly be pleased to answer any questions. Of there are you a real trend I like road trains I rode Cup times to Saint Louis and one question I had is there is there any securities prop provide on train you'll have a police officer on border security manner DO I mean how do how do you cover that nowadays with everything that's going on of the open nature of rail travel is such that we can aren't able to provide TSA style service like you do at airports but I'll we have a police department and Amtrak and they work with TSA to do random screening so we'll come to a station and randomly screen we also now like the airlines do we get the name and the birth date everybody who's traveling on the train so we can do background checks prior to folks boarding so we know who is on the train and from time to time we will have intricacies of were riding the train that was more or less what I referred to those arriving trying I I wrote at night in the corsage road in a regular passenger car and I didn't take anything that we sleep because I wanted to but the I realized I would go to sleep because I was probably I don't have means in the cart was full but everyone in there were snowing so there was no sleep but but it was a good ride we have any questions from committee members about that. Anyone else all right thank you for your presentation rejects being here thank you Mr chairman next summer I want to get a sleeping car okay thank you. Alright. Before we move on to Adam D. let me remind you for your hearing you want to speak in reference to Adam D. be sure if your name's not on the agenda list be sure to sign up on the for testimony so we can have that down. And all right to a representative flowers are you ready okay. Without objection we will adopt the ISP for study and here discussion. Hearing no objection will move forward represent flowers come forward you may see. Once you introduce yourself and you start. Thank you very much Mr chairman. Colleagues are. I hope this. What was our house bill sixteen thirty one as a an independent study because. there is a lot of confusing and competing are there was a lot of compute confusing and competing discussion on only during our committee hearing but just out in the stratosphere. And I think that you'll hear some of that discussion today and I think that what is and should be before us now and moving forward is how we address some of the safety concerns that came to me and I'm sure committee if you. As well as just the here of our constituents especially in smaller cities and small towns having to deal with blocked railroad crossings so I'd like to open up before I ask for us to hear from those who came to speak today I just wanted to point out that I have a railroad in nineteen strict. I love the trains I have grown up and have been an adult riding trains and I'm also very aware as you all are that the railroad is in an incredibly important component of our transportation system and our economy and so my focus in bringing this bill forward in the first place and bringing it to study is to figure out how we can address the problems that exist in a way that is least harmful to our rural companies but that also address the incredibly important issues that affect our constituents be they individuals or our businesses and the two things that I'll ask you all to think about if they haven't come to your districts. are you know as a result of the train lengthening and that hasn't just happened in Arkansas that poses a difference in just that the time that it takes the train to get past the crossing but also creates some dynamics whereby sometimes that that crossing is actually blocked for hours we've heard about some of those issues and complaints and then of course when that happens especially in a small city and rural areas where that is the crossing that affords police and other public safety. officials to address emergencies back then becomes a problem and and sometimes life threatening so that's why we're here that's what we're talking about these issues and I really appreciate everyone from all sites for coming today and with that Mr chairman I would like to invite the Witnesses as they are listed and I think there are some substitutions today to join me at the podium to speak to their concerns and whatever presentations they have okay because we won't have amenities yourself will you share let's. Bring Mr Cheryl sale first and today he has with him. Mr Jeff McKenzie and I believe he went over there and I signed in and. He will Mr mackenzie will replace Mr Stalin so they'll they'll talk about who wasn't able to come and know that there were some issues but if we could bring those two up and we can start with them. Well John. At first. Thank you retirement many forgiveness is opportunity try to be brief women dishes simply my name is Gerald sale the legislative director for the state you might make sure okay close in the my name shall say on the state legislative director for the state of Arkansas smart transportation representing records in the state of Arkansas. What can the representative present a locomotive engineer training union like to thank the chairman of the committee for lying to speak today. State. I think one of the issues we run into Concerning regulation the state of Arkansas and one argument so we run up against all the time is whether or not the state has the right to regulate real traffic to the state of Arkansas so I put together this quick piece for you guys just a a couple things out. First here I know all you take an oath. To the Arkansas constitution and the Arkansas constitution states to the General Assembly shall pass laws to correct abuses and prevent I just discrimination excessive charges by railroads you know I would say hopefully by the time we're finished here today. They will understand that this is a and the agree just abused by the railroads themselves placed upon the communities and hopefully you'll understand it's your route as the General Assembly to possibly come up with a remedy. also will go further that forty nine U. S. Code two zero one zero six a grant states right to adopt or continue in force law regulations. In order to railroad safety and security well this is a safety issue I think the carriers are concerned about the economic impact and it's not our worries here we don't we don't want to adversely affect the carriers themselves. I'm a U. P. employee my counterpart here see if you Pacific employee we want them to do well but we don't feel like they should do well at the cost of safety especially for the communities and our state. You know I'm I'm sure a lot of the argument you here today as well not to speculate. Our concern the Interstate Commerce Commission. The Interstate Commerce Commission was put together and has the right to regulate railroads they are correct but is to regulate railroads on economic issues the federal railroad safety act of nineteen seventy. Grants and the regulation of of the railroads based on the. a federal road safety act. In one of the other arguments we hear quite often is that we should kick the can down the road we should let the federal government take care of this what we kick the can back to the federal government to kick the can back to us where does that leave Arkansans that's that's our main concern and this is from a letter the GOP geo did a report with the Department transportation concerning TrainLink this trying to ground of the past few years now This young man is that I have quoted here is a trump appointee and he's kick the can down to the states to you guys and what he says is that to your federal one size fits all approach is not the best way to report every specific issue well infrastructure is different in every state it makes perfect sense western state when you're running across Arizona probably doesn't have the density in areas that we have in Arkansas and this is something that affects not only cities like little rock but is it affects real communities well. And I put this together here at the end just as an example currently we have over two hundred fifty laws regulating railroads on the on the state record right now. So how can we argue that the states don't have the right to you don't have the right to regulate the railroads when it's obvious that since our founding as far as our constitution goes up through the years we regulated the railroad when needed two points need to be regulated both for service and also for safety when it comes to our citizens right. I put together a small hand out for year about train length just to cover a few of the problems. And just so you know. Jeff ana how about the others we stay on the road Jeff is an engineer a mechanic conductor we're pushing twenty years on the road so we have a little bit of experience and we're not just a couple paid lobbyists or lawyers appear before she can probably or tell that but to sell point we're we're here because we're concerned what we see day on the road. If you look on page two a delay out. The railroad's of the State of Arkansas. Now when I had a man in a in a highlighted highlighted union Pacific and the reason I did this is the training the issue is an issue that we've seen really affects the shoreline spot as much as the class once the class ones have adopted this this theory of of running actual long trains and the reason I how you please not because we both work for U. P. but I highlighted U. P. because as you can see by this as far as class one railroads in the state they're really the big game in town you know the BNSF KCS go in and out of state on the corners but if we're really going to look at how it affects the state of Arkansas I think it you Pacific paints a good picture so as not to pick on them but it's just because. Of the abundance of knowledge that they have compared to the others. So Page three we look at it one thirty for second but infrastructure. That's where our main concerns is in the in the laws we looked at in the past they weren't as written or designed to hurt the carriers at all we actually tried to be as reasonable as we could be at the time we start looking this is starting started gaining concern at the eighty five hundred link that we were asking for was bigger than the average size trains running cross Arkansas since then unfortunately weeks we've started C. trains roll two to three miles long and sometimes longer they're even taking transit used their longest which would be on average a Cochrane is about the long as train you see and what they're doing is they're putting to Coltrane's together and harm across the state and what we run into with that is where I get into the infrastructure is. The majority of our tracks in the state when two trains are running in opposite directions they have to make a meet what we would call meet that when they make a meet one train pulls into a siding and the the the timing is paramount of course but what happens is when infrastructure won't fit the trains that they're running now. All the trains have to back up and wait if there's one citing that that a ten thousand foot train can fit into then every trying to have to wait until at ten thousand foot train it's that Saddam so all the trains are staged in backed up causing markets in the other issue is when they won't fit. Where does the sixteen thousand foot train fit period you know as a crew we would want run together constantly and weed the only run on the same grounds what yes that was not seniority so we would know we're a thousand foot transit so if the traffic gets backed up we would know we could fit in this area and stay off of any municipality crossings we still former crossings but the problem gets for you have trains twice as long. There's not as many opportunities to to lay back and stay off of people's crossings Just example and like I said not to pick on union Pacific but we run ninety sightings in the state of Arkansas now the eighty five hundred link that we're looking at this is one of the reasons we came up with that link is it would fit the it's bigger than what the average Coltrane was but also eighty five hundred feet would fit in half of the sidings for union Pacific in the state of Arkansas so every other siding we could make a meet. But what what happens when you go beyond that limit let's say we go to ten thousand foot train. Then we can only makes make meets and twelve sightings in the state of Arkansas ninety. And if you go up to twelve thousand foot train. Then you got a bill to make this a meet in one siting in whole state needs if it wants and doesn't. We're saying now were what's file Jeff what's the largest train that you run as an engineer sixteen thousand the. And they were saying sixteen fourteen sixteen thousand feet the largest one I've seen in the state's been eighteen thousand feet so far so if a twelve thousand foot train only fit in one setting and state. Where the strings and if it. So this is a print out on page four. This is when I first started getting arm this is this is you Pacific self imposed it's a network planning map in this is our self imposed length restrictions. And I've. What I've done here is Sudan on the North Little Rock area. In the directions that are tracks travel out and if you look. The self imposed limitation before they adopted running longer trains you know west of Fort Smith was seventy five seventy six hundred feet you know north to Missouri is eight thousand P. south Louisiana's eight thousand feet to Texas is eight thousand feet this is our self imposed limitation. Because it was what fit in the infrastructure. And I did that to try in my opinion to try to alleviate the pressure not only placed on us as crews and the dangers that will occur and that will occur when you when your trains twice as long but also in the general public. Now as we stated before there is no limit on the on the link to transfer in the state so proposed by the reference. Page five just talk about a few things that happen of longer trains Jeff can speak to this yeah we only have so much power train when you double want the trying to double the weight of the training so getting stopped becomes issue getting started becomes an issue. you. If you wanna talk about that for a second hello selector and the longer they are the heavier or the more likely they are to bring. Did you you have above press both forces draft forces that come in with your car they have each one of the bill movement and all the more cards on a more member you have to retired turning to the call several hundred feet on a seven thousand loan training so those are the bigger and heavier look more like the our care one a break it which caused delays over crossing because you can't move on when they're for up until a fixed all the communication problems with your conductor as he walked back or to fix you training the call of like a ripple effect with longer trains and the consequences that that just well that is the staging and that's that's what happens with us talking earlier when all the trains are waiting it's like a traffic jam to make a meet or if they're building a larger training yard to be able to get into the yard because everything is staged back waiting to service one track just one train can affect if you have one trying to sixteen thousand foot and you have twenty trains or six thousand that one trying to can end up having all the train stopped by so skews me Jeff who who's who's. Sparty taken on the list are you taking someone else's spot off of this state that. No he's not I apologize for that okay our office at officers coming down but our fears are in a coming down with something else called code so. We say okay no problem. Up Page six I mean I know it's a plethora of issues but the. We have radio communication signals with the rear trying to treat everyone here can remember saying that the base is back in the day you had crews that arrived in the caboose for communication purposes also to tie breaks and and cut trains and do other other things now that was replaced in the mid eighties and was replaced with either an ELT. Which is just a small box on the end of the train the or radio communicate with the front of the train or you might see locomotive back there to to help push the train as the trains roll longer we lose communication with that now if you lose communication with that you often have to slow down and that's going to create even more staging issues if you have a train has to run below prescribe speed. We also cover of just below that have run into issues. We run across detectors part of not having a caboose where we can stop and have enough priestess spectrums the railroad invested in their infrastructure this time they put in radio detectors so we'll go over the check for for dragging commitment they may check for hot wheels and it will radio to us that everything is okay but if we can't hear that in often you can't especially with a train of this length then we also have to slow down in some cases of repairing hazardous material may have to stop and inspect the train. You know it into what Jeff was talking about the on page Page seven we're talking about. locomotives and train like this is it's important keep in mind they're breaking systems were invented in the eighteen seventies this this airbag system it's on Amtrak that you know they have electronic brakes which is great we've asked for that from the federal government for years of they chose not to grant that to us but you know we're we're dealing with reconstruction there technology here and is also technology that wasn't intended to have a train that was sixteen thousand feet low and what you run into with that when you when you run air as as my colleague here saying you have all that slack so can equal to quite a bit by bit of area. So we have airlines that run three airlines in league when is that long which will cause you to have air issues on trying. They can actually the couples can come undone because of because of the lands and also when it's cold weather. That's when we start having issues. We're going to have more break issues because we're we're having to feel a longer line of air and as the cold weather comes out once you stop and you start to try to as we would say pump up their own you trying to get your brakes release it can take forever on a longer trying compared to shorter trying not not only does it affect the application the brakes but it affects recovering the brake system once they've been applied you know as is just spoke about it to the strains were designed the knuckles were designed to break the weakest point on trains is the knuckle where they put together it's almost like two hands going together. Now when they were designed to break that's the reason for that is you want that peace break it's easy for me as a conductor to get off what back radio ahead and replace that nothing we can get on the move. But the problem isn't the knuckles weren't designed to all sixteen thousand feet they were in this town hall six or seven thousand feet and none of those changes have been made either. My colleagues here to was talking if you look on page eight the negative effects of running along train and we have a few diagrams or if you if you want to talk about the way those work Jeff and appreciate that. Okay of. Page eight here I was talking about the buff and draft forces of the cars basically like everyone of you have on going down hill or with the distributed power you want to put some together holding together will will not you have a different train territory you might go over to three different hills at the same time we you have both and draft going on the train all different areas well that just. Kind of chaos backer but you can keep the stressed out because you don't have enough power to loan because draped over hills you can keep on bust up same reason to keep it held together so buff and draft forces of. Greatly increased with the longer the training is basically tells your is spread out over such a far distance that you're you're all appearing on all down here you might be draped over truth revealed same time. And with draft horses you break both forces you can push the car L. the to derail it I mean a lot of issues can happen with these or it shows are on the box and you can tell what he's talking about with the momentum coming in we call that a run and just so as as it runs in it can cause buckling a cause cars to the rail but the same thing when you have a run out they can either call to break into the resistance or or can cause of the derailment to think of it straightening all the sudden and curved or boating together in a curve You know a Jack nothing is is basically the same thing it in the forces are doubled when we double the size the train and the weaknesses that we double the size of the train you have twice as many weak points along with twice as much weight. In this early running issues now they were building these trains is long but the yards on page nine yards were designed to bill trying to saw so what happens let's say here in Little Rock in North Little Rock or there's a train being built at sixteen thousand feet or palm for those trained being billed the sixteen thousand feet that train has to hang out on to the main line out of the yard well that means no other trains can run into the yard so every trying has to back up in weight waiting to get to their home terminal and that creates a lot of our crossing issues there so if if you're building a train that long and you may have ten empty tracks your North Little Rock well if you don't have access to turn into those tracks because the track the main track is occupied. Then you're gonna end up having staging affect their to this is like a giant traffic jam and you know well that this goes in the yard and also out on the rail it's a conductor but we have a for required testing and. You know. You have to you have to check both sides of the training to walk also to train so if it if the tribes and now you already know there may be a apartments got taken twice as long to look this over is. Come here. One. Question yes Sir thank you quick question I have a coal fired power plant in my district my house districts curiosity is sixteen thousand feet let us sixteen thousand is that normally a coal train that runs across Arkansas. Seventy five her feet average five hundred feet would be the average before we started saying this so what will happen a lot of the times as they will take it the co trying to may run a load in at seventy five hundred feet but they may put two together empties leaving. So. We've always service as a reason why we looked at the limitation coal coal industry are are runs where we come from our huge co run comes from the power base in a moment that we didn't want to inflict any pain or any damage on the co founders of self or on the road because we recognize that's our bread and butter that's the reason why we looked I just said no mere average Coltrane's city five hundred feet long and that's your loads going in or still that way most of the time but when the leading they'll double month to try to pull two at the same time out you have to empties leaving out of there and then you're looking at you know sixteen thousand foot at that time okay appreciate thank you no problem. Yeah and this is what representative fire spoke about the Page ten just give me an idea. In our main concern and I can speak to this as a conductor one of my main concerns and and I represent men and women that I'm concerned about. The general we don't really understand what we do. You know when we Barker crossing they're mad at us now I don't have the distorted to go back and cut across and contrary to what people think we have to ask the radio to Omaha Nebraska and they would give us authority to cut across well all the times they don't want to give us that story because they're ever optimistic that we're going to get on the motion and I understand that but what I what concerns me in just a side note here we have bullet proof glass on locomotives for reason. What concerns me is you know I have a crew sitting in Mayflower and they said to sit there for four hours because they can't get the crossing but then the dispatcher tells them well doesn't look like you can move you can get the cross. And then he or she has to go back and cut the crossing there in the public or the public's angry at us you know that and that is a big concern for us it of course and you know the other concern we work together with the with the fire department and a lot of the organization's. Is we're concerned we're gonna run into an issue like they ran into Louisiana last couple years where it was actually one of our trains it just happened to be in Louisiana one of my crews that along or ask you show moved along we got we got eight other speakers I'm not trying to cut you off we were moving. Okay our thank you What we worry about his first responders in the rain to this and leaves in a couple years back where it's the first honored a gentleman had a heart attack they ended up Dr crossing. They would allow the cut crossing this is one of my crews so in upon their backing out they had to land a helicopter out there in a cane field is up he died on the way the hospital yeah that's these are my concerns we should let Wall Street dictate the safety of main street and that's that's all asking into finisher Mike you look at the last page. You know this this started in Arkansas. We were a little bit ahead of the curve looking at this because we could see what the other railroads had done on the east coast civically CSX but what I will say is if you can see that we have over twenty states the that are running this legislation out most of my in the south of the western states is not as big of an issue but the infrastructure issue across the south it's a huge issue so I just like to thank you guys. Questions committee member to represent right you're recognized thank you Mr chairman yes this I know you got a lot of problems with this but let's just say that you got training sixteen eighteen in the wrong. This area to the right of we we actually screwed over to let another train through do you think that if those areas to the to the right center county the holding areas were adjusted you think that that would heal it it wouldn't fix all issues because we have communication issues nothing to talk about but if the if the infrastructure was designed to fit these trains it would alleviate a large portion of issues. Resent very you're recognized thank you Mr chairman. So just as it did last year this this remains the FRA issue as far as the termination of TrainLink in your chart that you referred to as far as becoming a nation wide issue all this is saying it is proposed to in into a Committee says it's just like right now there's nothing being done in in the states to change the laws because the federal government has the say over the length of trains as just no different than the Airways waterways of the real raise it's a federal issue my district. We've never had a problem with training we've never had a problem with trains breaking down stopping and blocking intersections and in my district or two of the surrounding districts so my suggestion would be that this be taken to the congressional delegation and you sit down with Center cotton center Bozeman French Hill and the others and come up with a solution until such time it really doesn't the pertain to the state and I know if we were by chance to change the law in the state of Arkansas they're not gonna stop that train over in Oklahoma and cut it in half in and allow the train to go to the state of Arkansas is just not gonna happen but I did have one question how does this because both of your early union officials how does this. Impact the union what does the union gained from from this is a more jobs more conductors more trains higher pay because you got more conductors sure there there's something that the union has to gain from this well. First off on the on the first party question I would say that plainly the federal government's kicked it back down to the state they conducted their own city the F. already came out the department transportation came out and said that the states are better suited to this both have the right I would love for that for a to do this but I think I would hope that elected officials for the state of Arkansas it's your duty not to depend on the federal government to take care of problems but to take care of our problems here as far as what the union gains or doesn't gain any gain safety I'm not allowed to try to propose any legislation that would create jobs that's not what we work on we have two different branches of our union just just to let you know what legislative branch which works on safety sanitation and then we have a contract branch of nothing to do with the contract brands they they handle indigo shade how many jobs we have a hand on the question what type of jobs we have. We don't handle that and like you you know I'm I'm elected to official as well by. I don't have a district but by my members in the state of Arkansas to represent them and in their concerns and You know you spoke to your district to. yeah my cruise run to the districts that UP lines that run through there and there's one train track on the home run or one siting on the whole run I don't two thousand feet it's Mayflower Mayflower has had repeated issues that office a district next year so much so that they're trying to build over overpass there but the reporting I received is the over pass the building is kind of outside of town so it really doesn't alleviate the problem of blocking trains and when we talk about stating that's where every train stages now so it's not hitting you agree because there's no place for me where you are it's it's it's hitting Mayflower because that's the one place that can meet on a westerner. Can everyone followed Mr so. The bottom line is that this is a federal issue it's always been a federal issue it's not going to be decided in the state of Arkansas this committee is not going to make that decision and my suggestion would be take it to the fence I'm I appreciate than we do the our federal delegation I'm in I'm in DC voicing our issues with him constantly. Representative Brian you're recognized thank you just a curiosity question of a complete aviation world and nobody no claim commercial passenger or freight will typically leaves airport without the destination being free and clear at the other side of the trains operate in the same manner where the dis dispatch out of Chicago going to San Antonio and they know who they're gonna come in contact with and for the siting issues that and they can stall or they can move transit dispatcher plans that out on your show up to work you'll figure out what yes running north Korea's running south and try to make a plan so as long as something doesn't break down and that's for the breakdowns run into or create issue force No Way they have a plan line up for that but that's where your staging comes in if your plan limits you to one citing that a train may fit internal settings what what type of plan can you put forth okay and one of the questions Korea as just a deal with a or statutes twenty three twelve one thousand six. Operation movement of trains I'm just curious what we're we've been at this issue the State Highway Commission is hereby designated as the sole public body to deal with is hereby given exclusive jurisdiction over all matters pertaining to the operation movement of trains within this state including but not limited to the obstruction of any public highway road street or other railroad crossing a public property yes and we talked to the State Highway Commission to see if there's any rule that they want to promulgate there's multiple laws on the books that aren't inforce of the State Highway Commission like we have a crossing law on the books that's virtually unenforceable is not enforced You know I'll look at that and I provided that just to show that the state has a history of regulating rail throughout the state and we have not only the jurisdiction but we have a body that is charged with enforcing law that's that's the reason laws we previously written we handed over to them and also is as far as the the finds would roll back into the apartment transportation as well for the state but I don't think that the levy aids. Constitutional you're right to regulate any railroad. Could you follow. So what do we have current rules that just aren't forced are we do have a we have multiple rules are enforced but it just says the crossing rules an example yeah it's basically written into under forcible manner and the fine on it is. Pretty small it's not if it with any teeth in the the research I did because I was intrigued by this because I don't like transportation states Oklahoma in Oregon have have walls that the states have passed and every time a the jurisdiction writes a citation. And it's challenged in court the courts have dismissed it saying. The Federal will overrule that state law and so since we're about that since we're bouncing this ball back and forth we've had eight years maybe of a friendly administration to. To the unions and four years of a more management side now we're back to the more friendly obviously with the labor agreement coming coming to a head I think it's mostly approved one of the reasons that they are pushing back the two man rule to go back out for any reviews because they say these long trains do we know what it for a is not addressing long trains. From discussions I've had they're still wanting study again after the regional jail study the department transportation I can't answer to to why they haven't yet that's why I feel like it leaves us to come up with a solution to the come up with a better solution like I said before I would I would love for there for it to come down and and solve this issue and then we can discuss things that that arms controversy but unfortunately they have they failed to do so so far. Represent Springer. Recognized for a question thank you thank you I would like to make a comment in the question I was in the committee good good morning again or I was in the committee what we talked about this last year and you all made a presentation I appreciate the additional information that you provided to us today regarding this very issue and I would just like to make this statement that are out there are no train tracks that are being blocked and having the concerns that you are talking about but in my surrounding district I received many complaints all the time about the problems with the loan training so it is an issue within our state within my community within my district and I definitely think that there's a need for it to be addressed so I appreciate you all coming here today in making a presentation again and you're pretty adamant about that and I'm I really appreciate your efforts to costly come back to us to bring this to our attention so I thank you very much for doing so and if there's anything that I can do to assist please just let me know thank you for your question. Your. Going. Please contact would you please contact me and and let me know if there's anything that I can do for you yes ma'am thank you thank you ma'am. Representative Chris. Thank you Mr chairman. Representative flowers first of all you're opening presentation this morning has was well presented an excellent. Missile thank you. Trains regenerating in terminating in Arkansas all those that originate and terminate here are not subject to this discussion is that correct that's not normally an issue for us also trains that well actually only repeat that let me answer that differently mostly trains originate and terminate here our local trains the service local industries and does normally aren't issues that we would have with those they know me as a shorter smaller trained and they also know me have three people as far as a group because there's more work to do so that alleviate some of the other issues where are a three freight has to two people on the track but I will say we have a lot of trains that originate here like the trainer was talking about in Louisiana was built upon was that in the the German was mocked the crossing of losing his life so we have a a lot of transit do originate here that are built in Little Rock built in pine bluff bank your yard that actually create the issue that we're talking about earlier weather so long they won't fit in the yard as they're being built so they affect every other time I understand that but I appreciate your answer on the local trains what originates and terminates within the state. In your discussions have you discussed with union Pacific how they're addressing this capacity problem by lengthening sidings and doing other things that are necessary to mitigate the problems that they recognize as well and long trains. beyond testimony and then talking after this money with a talk about the plans that they had for maybe changing infrastructure no Sir but I will say as we all know we hear infrastructure hadn't really changes for the sightings you know and seventy five eighty years and I hope they do changing but is not something that would be over not fix would be my concern follow up Mr Homer. Hester the rail subcommittee I've probably received more block crossings and anybody else in the state in the last few years and yes our was implemented I know that our representatives. All across the state receive. Complaints issues and problems. So to that extent I contact or MCC on a regular basis I will tell you in the last six months that is dropped precipitously as it seems the operational issues are beginning to work themselves out to a degree. Caution that Higginson and Hensley are to the areas in the state that have been hot spots along with Jackson for ten Tuckerman and Jackson to twenty four in in working with the roll road we've gotten agreements that specifically have. Put it in the train rules the operating rules that don't block these crossings I think they're aware of the danger to the public by trains stopping on the crossing in being recruit or whatever and we see improvements on that on a daily basis but I think you'll agree to each water crossing each occupied crossing his unique characteristics and those are things that are going to have to be worked out in one by one basis to try to make the situation better for all parties concerned. Our job as legislators is to make sure the safety of our Kansans are paramount not to take sides with labor or management but to look at what the proper issues are in the best way that we can alleviate those problems and I agree with representative very that this is an FRA issue I know they've already brought forward things on the crew size it's my understanding of the visit the training so. I would encourage you to have more contact with U. P. on that because I know we have. We have seen an improvement in the low cross in our communities and particularly the hot spots like Emmett in Jackson County and other places. I would just say that the. First I'd have to say and to see the numbers we we need to look at not just what crossing but how many trains running during that time because says We seven. Inflation is I'm sure you awareness traffic goes up and down the close that's going to be a major factor as far as what we are trying to be how many cars for all of the other thing I speak to the that you mention it's it's you said it's not your job to side with the union or the Carriers we're not asking you to side with the unions here today I hope that the. You know me well enough to know that. I'm a reasonable person I'm I'm I'm not to. Rah rah union all the time I want the carriers do what as do well too but I would I would say that we're not asking to take our side to their side rescue take the public so. All right to Joe Jett thank three testimony no no more questions we have sent flowers we call it the next witness please. Yes thank you very much share. the next witness will be Mr call being on the county attorney with Friday Eldredge and Clark. drew and Michael I'm on a I will let them do their testimony animal that y'all come up last just finished when you get rid of special. All right. Who who would. Introduce yourself please. Mr chairman members Committee on Paul Burnham returning to fight the origin Clark law firm representing the Association of Arkansas real real issue sociais Asian success of three class one railroads operating across Arkansas this the union Pacific BNSF and the Kansas city southern VOL could you get a mock this little bit more please pull it up to you closer is that is close yes. On a computer at home. House Bill sixteen thirty one seeks to limit the length of trains on railroad lines interstate road lines operated and state of Arkansas eighty five hundred square feet regardless of all of the safety and operational issues that go into a determination how long the training should the. House Bill sixteen thirty one races the root question to what extent can states to enact laws restricting interstate commerce in the answer is very simple they cannot. The issue was decided by the US Supreme Court in nineteen forty five was a case challenging an Arizona law limiting train links in the court held that state regulation trying weeks violates the Commerce Clause the US constitution in that states cannot materially restrict free flow of commerce across state lines. The court like representative very Christian Christiansen. Nope that the practical effect of trying length limits in Arkansas is to control train operations beyond the boundaries of the state in order to because it would require breaking up and re assembling trains at state borders. Arizona argued that the regulation was necessary for safety of its residents which is same rationale appeared appearing on house bill sixteen thirty one but the court rejected that argument the court's decision was a categorical categorical statement that any state regulation of train links violates the Commerce Clause and is therefore invalid. This ruling was recognized in the real road safety act which states essentially that states may continue to regulate safety issues within the borders but only to the extent that they do not violate Interstate Commerce. From a legal point of view. Arkansas cannot stymie real road key operational choice of trying weeks. Arkansas cannot limit how many road cars can be used on current. That is a goal beyond the state's breach there for the Arkansas railroad association respectfully ask that you reject the trend of temps to dictate trying links like house bill sixteen thirty one. Thank you Mr. All right well thank you for sure to be a brief self with any questions committee saying none we are once again. Right recognized thank you Mr chair just to a question about interstate commerce is from your perspective when when California in this state to interact that is intersecting commercial commerce blocking trucks that are built two thousand eleven or older two thousand seven or older is obvious anything can be challenged the lawsuit but is that something that. This legal in your opinion well yes miss Clark granddaughter who's legal votes student says these are interesting Tax there are attempts from various areas to push the limits as has been said to see what states can and can't do but with regard to train links in nineteen forty five case is determinative of the issue the answer it has to go to that as far as set up to after all right in the determine their quick and they are deter looking at various issues as as you heard there a lot of lot of safety and operational issues and F. or is looking at all it takes time. Okay saying that to just a follow up or any of the states that have enacted train lengths or restrictions I think there's I think a wash to federal committee Divizia out of Oregon said their state did and it got it got blocked to your knowledge or any of those states that have those laws in place challenging that the Supreme Court no I'm not aware thank you I'm not aware of what the other state. I just speak in Arkansas. President right recognized. Thank you Mr Mr Benham I appreciate this briefer statement that you provided very informative I'm curious if there are in addition to the legal arguments on this are there also what sort of economic considerations are there in terms of the economic impact of a bill like this rule like this limiting that is one of the issues raised by the GAO of letter and that too is something being considered at the federal level is all goes into just a mass of data that will result ultimately in some regulation I'm not sure where it's going to be nineteen answer exactly what impact it will have okay thank you. Okay see no other questions all proceeds testimony thank you thank you senator Clark. Nicks with. All I'm not sure I don't think we have anymore okay I was looking for. All. One more about the songs. This is a Mr mu law. Bill forms you can. People are getting impatient. Yes Sir thank you and I'm I will keep this brief management just on some of the Arkansas official firefighters in our issue here is pretty simple it's the you know increase train links means longer time spent at crossings waiting for trains pass as emergency responders it's our job to respond emergencies with with urgency and you know if you have a train of blocking crossing for longer we can't do that if you talk about a medical emergency every second counts if you're talking about say a structure fire your fire is doubling in size every minute you know in an urban setting we can you know maybe dispatch a different unit to go in our place but if you're talking about us a rule area there might not be another unit so that's that's our issue this. You were made. Thanks Sir. No more. Sure Mr Stalin's could you estimate approximately statewide the number of areas that. You would think or problem areas in terms of trying crossings well so I mean potentially any area any committee area there's a crossing in an emergency on the other side of the area your you know in an urban area yes we can go around but like I said when you talk about an emergency like a medical emergency you're talking about you know second account especially you know trump trump state and when you're talking about it's a structure for like I said our doubles in size every minute sure I guess so obviously a no one no one enjoys just sitting at a railroad crossing waiting on a train to pass and if you're in a if your first responder you know that response time is you know particularly acute. But ACT I'm so obviously any crossing is an impediment but with regard to particularly long trains are there is there are there particular. Areas that are causing concern and how many of those are there so like I'm in Little Rock we know we have one place in particular where we you know we tend to respond to calls in southwest little rock we use a certain route because you know it's our job to be efficient when we move and we have a certain route that we take to get there well there is a railroad crossing and so when we get to that crossing if it's blocked we're you know we're there I you know we don't generally keep statistics on how often that happens because we what we would do is say you know we're blocked by crossing discussion of the unit but you know we we keep statistics on our response times but I don't know that we keep anything that reflects that was delayed because of the training okay thank you yeah. President right. This this may not be a your your questions feel that as the state moves into today when system. To the local fire department specially ones that you know in populated areas they have direct communication with the train we don't dispatch through a wins now when we can go to read like I say we have an emergency that's happening here track we can go through our dispatch and have them contact you know whatever the train companies but we don't we don't generally directly contact the. Any other questions. Thank you bye you have any other. okay we'll get to others to call up DO tester the correct and Michael I'm not going to provide your name I missed it last time or I'll let you to get a period. Senate due September you may begin. You will. Still. A true test As You director of public affairs Union Pacific Railroad. Mr chairman members. I just wanna provide just kind of update from the the twenty one meeting that we had on this and the extensive hearing one of the one of the crossings that were brought up we're here to say it's kind of a good example of how we address some of the issues that we do have one occupied cross and we know where they are we we work with. With representative Christiansen and work with first responders that on these issues insulae is a road is one way and one way out neighborhood Hardly hardly occupied horribly blocked. We. We identified that crossing realize it was an issue March two thousand twenty three that crossings will be moved out of the society that they were talking about building a new siding that they're in the process now going west where it will be completely out of the the signal system so in this train meets that they talk about now Hinsley road rules will be out of it so those are some things that we do working with the community working with the state working with our dot we identify these areas and we they try to fix them operationally we was superintendent orders selected the mention Hagen since there's a superintendents order there that says do not park on these crossings stop before or we will fix with capacity projects that we do. Looking at that the deal are Dotson presentation I saw what their budget is three point four billion being spent over twenty years you Pacific spending that you every year on capacity and maintain our tracks to make sure we operate safely in Arkansas the last four years we spend six hundred million dollars in these are you safe tracks technology and the siding products projects that you're talking about. I'm not familiar with sit above fifteen thousand veterans we run up to fifteen thousand four trains but as was testified to talking about the the coal fired plant. You if it's too heavy the terrain it's all situation we don't just go let's Holcomb all up and let's go folks you know we take advantage of a fishing sees what we can it was very important during the supply chain crisis because everybody was trying to get employees we were low on cruise and you know taking advantage of going up there with one crew at seven thousand feet in hooking on to to to the strains upon the empties out help set coal fired plant in that location and throughout you know. We were we struggle getting cold to our our electric companies keep the power on we're struggling getting grain to farmers out west to feed to cattle this period of time working with Craig Christiansen Arkansas operationally things were things were tough things running better we've had a increase in hiring or cruise. And. Just basically I'll answer any questions you may have but of the registry specially a Pacific we're we're here to try to solve problems we'll meet whatever whatever you want whatever you want to meet with and we have a lot of partners out there we train a lot of first responders we got a place in pueblo Colorado where we send you know first responders for hazmat training you know we're there to solve problems try to create and we track on fix. Do do you want to question. If you have some questions we have we have one if you want to take sure okay this is Brian you're recognized. Good morning thank you Mr cam I want to get clarification on what I heard you say you said that you within a five areas particularly in the Pulaski County area that there are problems that a lot located in this particular because those are my constituents and some of the people live in that area so I want to make sure that I can report back to them what you stated you've been is it correct that you indicated that you set aside monies in order to address the problem but look particularly the track in Kinsley Arkansas and that thing's going to be taking place to address that is that what I heard you say you see Arkansas will be taken care of okay and I'll get back with you give me some more details on it because when I went back to my notes and then doing the research on this I talked to our our capacity the bills it so we we have we address these issues as we Senate just building a siding in knowing Hensley road we take it into consideration and we engineered out across we're building crossings now our sightings now where we'll go and actually purchase extra right away to build a a road. Louisiana says parish but here county standards for for those folks to use the get around around our infrastructure Mister chair follow up I want to be specific so I can communicate properly back to mine okay so I want to know specifically what's being done after I thought I heard you say that is going to be like maybe twenty twenty three later in the arch two thousand twenty three is when that that project supposed to be completed and done let's say something is going to stop at the we don't foresee that so they'll be some good news for those okay sold the purpose of the project has already started the and if it's going to be finished that's a few months away about six months away so it's already started to correct that problem I will be so that's what you hear okay that's what I heard you say and then you say what about in the urban areas where there been complaints in Pulaski County what's being done there I don't know all the the sections if you have some other hot spots so that the work with you but as representative Christian said each crossing has its seats unique characteristics so long need to be taken care of with. S. the projects there's the there's an opportunity out there that I've been pushing really hard is with our daughter and with communities the federal grade crossing elimination fund those applications used to be very very difficult that money used to go to places like Dallas and Little Rock in population base now more the rule communities and they they got a lot of factors in there that to make these these grants assessable works as we work. VOL the following message here okay. Four is Higginson Arkansas Higginson Arkansas. H. I. G. G. I. in SO in. It. Higginson four is that it is between Little Rock in Jonesborough five ball not. On You. Join our Hoxie seven of that doesn't help you that had room have a question. So have you had complaints from that particular area as well since I started my job seventeen years ago with the Pacific a left Arkansas for a little bit and when I came back I re engage with mayor honestly and we put a superintendent or not to block that crossing in it's decrease significantly okay and the final question the sicher I'm I'm concerned about these specific areas within in my district compared to all the other areas so are you familiar with one down in of the writes Bill area sweet home area a tract there is will is a track on in the off of Confederate Boulevard are you familiar with those particular areas as well. I don't have the details on that that would so though those were my completes the coming from thank you Mr Sullivan I would I would hope that you would follow up on those to the end thank you definitely. All right the thank you drew microfluidics yourself you will be tested. Thank you Mr chairman good morning my name is Michael Garriga with the BNSF railway based and for Texas and Mister chairman if I if I may of representive brown as a question I might be able to dress if that's appropriate this story okay you talked about some of the state legislation been passively you mention Oregon and Oklahoma I can speak the one Oklahoma so you have a block crossing bill that was passed I think in two thousand nineteen that would penalize accrues penalize railroad companies that would that were occupying those crossings that legislation was was challenging District Court in Oklahoma and ultimately successfully challenged at the appellate level it was really recently do not served by the Supreme Court that's pretty much present now and it was that the legislation was essentially overturn just want to follow up with that of but my comments will be brief is as it's been pointed out safety to our employees in our industry it's paramount paramount of in itself. Of if if longer trains were such a safety concern is as pointed out by our earlier testimony of the do you have already appropriate of federal oversight administration would would be the first line first in line to seek regulatory action and they are studying the issue to continue studies. third technology such as the use of distributed power of locomotives been enabled and allowed rose to operate you are longer trains much more safely US technology improvement as is as continue to be able to trace to carry more freight gradually increasing links safety metrics such as accident rates have significantly improved of thanks thanks those large investments to upgrade and modernize our real network American real industry it has achieved significant size of safety improvement measures across you know number of categories of last twenty years. I think there was a question about economics you know the amount of freight is is not going to go down so whether we restrict or limit of trainings or not and not afraid is going to continue to move in the and increase the amount of freight is going to continue to occur re continue to move so my trains so I'm not afraid but if you if you restrict that link you know it's just going to be more trains hauling the same. Correct so hopefully you're going to ultimately solve a block crossing issues by eliminating or restricting training so so freight is going to you know it's it's it's a it's it's going to continue to increase over time that the lease as the host but of. You know given the challenges that the supply chain is seen under president supply chain towns we have the lack of availability of crews you know it's it's it's a lead to significant challenges we made significant investments back our network or try hiring more people to move much more for it but it's just going to increase costs if we start talking about restricting trains increased cost to the rail industry in these increased costs only be passed down to our customers customers like. Walmart customers like JB hunt that is also be been assessed largest customer you're still plants over northeast Arkansas like a new core big river steel of the plan point power plant the cost of transport those everyday goods and products will ultimately be passed onto the consumer energy rates could go up because of the restriction on the movement of coal energy those higher costs are going to impact your day our cans of already placed right rising costs rising utility costs of okay so we're we we're we seen a president supply chain challenges record inflation we really want to increase cost of transporting goods so that are of so that we get more crews moving short trains I'll think that's the answer so with autonomous trucking you're gonna see that we're gonna see platooning involving our highways in order for the rail industry to remain competitive we've got to make sure we're able to move freight as efficiently as we possibly can so you know we're freight restriction would would put the rail industry competitive advantage I would put Arkansas committed disadvantage so of the closing arc artistry safer this ever been capital investment investing back in our network it's never been more focused on technology safety efficiency reducing those operational costs so the transportation costs and and moving of freight remain stable rates are customers rates stable so that's all I have today and I can answer the questions that we have to thank you Michael represent Springer. Thank you again Mr one specific question who is the person at the federal level that we can make contact with regarding that the trains the concern this been voiced you today regarding that the trains who is that person at the federal level you're obviously it's been discussed earlier Groeschel delegation I would think that would be a starting point no within that department not not that any member of the congressional the Federal Railroad Administration is a is a regulatory agency under are you know under the US department transportation there are federal regulators I understand that what was the name of that person the person is in charge of that the Secretary beat people okay all right that's what I want to know thank you. Thank you any other questions from committee. Representative right thank you Mr chairman Mr Matthews water you know. Being in a situation is actually in the hands of the federal most situations is there any way that we could actually feel problems from that transportation of transportation subcommittee of concerning the problems in Arkansas and have that have those problems directed to the the federal level can we do that. Well I think we're on the right path we're at right now. The bill because we. A you know. I thank the union and the company is just gonna have to get together in arbitration and work these issues out that's just my personal opinion but thank you. Okay any other questions give me anything else that thanks for testimony represent flowers you are you closing. Thank you Mr chairman. I want to thank everyone who has stayed to listen and thank everyone who provided information I really see this study M. and this hearing as a first step toward gathering information we try to address it early on regarding training and maybe that's still something that we look at I would like to Remind My colleagues that we heard from attorney venom talk about the nineteen forty five decision which is several decades ago in pursuit of preserving and nineteen twelve law we've heard about infrastructure. We've seen charts and graphs about our capacity we also know that there are challenges with regard to our first responders there are many many rural areas where there is one railroading one railroad crossing and I would. Like to address make two points one as it relates to efficiencies. We are living in a time where technology is pushing us forward in light years and some of the of results that we see for example in retail is that many of you I'm sure go to now a cash register where you're checking yourself out and you know. Where jobs were folks checking you out now you have people fixing those machines that happens as a result of technology we've seen how the railroad industry is trying to deal with how many crews are necessary as a result of trying with any and that's going to continue to happen around the time that we brought this bill you saw if you were a cruise in fewer people of working on these trains and now you see that that has wrapped back up but as a result lates to cost and what we're doing no one is trying to restrict commerce or restrict trains this is the same number of cars. It's the same number of cars it's the same materials that would travel what we're saying is as it relates to the impact to our communities whether it's our way out hours of waiting time it blocked crossings or whether it's the impact of of public safety it is our job to deal with that and it may not be placing a limitation it may be that we worked with This the regulatory body while we figure out how we can address this now. We cannot get rid of every block crossing I think that the response that we've seen and Hensley is appropriate and is great and I think that are real roads here in this state and other states I will continue to address the problems as they come as they should but when we as legislators here from our constituents whether it's for from inconvenience all the way up to safety threats and we see this as a continuing problem across our state it is our duty to do something to prevent something from happening we don't wait until there is an explosion. We have to figure out how do we address those concerns from convenience to safety threats and if we have unenforceable laws maybe we figure out ways to better enforce them maybe we do our work with the feds but I'll remind you so this is my second point I will remind you that I believe it was in twenty nineteen there was a significant threat to one of our major industries. Federal labels required passing laws. On federal labels is not our job. As a matter of fact some of the same federal prohibitions against passing those kinds of laws is something that we knew. And we passed a law out saying that companies could not put rice on their labels. Because there was going to be a detriment to one of our major industries if we see that there's going to be a detriment to our citizenry. And we know that there are issues to our citizenry it is up to us to make changes whether it's through regulation whether it's ramping up existing laws we cannot be we can't just sit on this and say it's a federal law or. Here's someone talk about the cost to other industry or. Or to the people when that industry is seeing record profits and what we're trying to do is say Hey. We're you guys are expanding. These train links. So just think about that please and let's work together I'll continue to collect data and we'll figure out. What we should do in this next session that's what this study is for it is not to attack an industry. No industry is going to say Hey come please regulate me. And nobody wants to regulate. But if there's something that we can do to provide safety for our people and to address these severe issues around inconvenience in our small towns we are a state we are a small state of mostly small towns we cannot ignore this so I really appreciate your attention and I ask that you continue to work with me work with both sides on this issue so that we can serve our people best thank you so much the representative flowers thank you committee for your patience thank you Jennifer you testimony professionalism we conducted yourself we appreciate that of all Republicans chair if I could just ask endorsement indulgence I have with me one of my I have three interns this semester to from European one from public high and one is here with me she came right from her class with ROTC and if I can ask attorney with Antoinette coming to please stand. Thank you all right thank you for being here once again thank you for your patience seeing no other business before the committee today we stand adjourned.