ALC-JBC Budget Hearings

We will call this meeting to order. I am glad to have everybody here this morning and we will move through this Will move through this meeting and Doing anything right of that person okay. So we'll just go ahead and start with item be. With the personnel subcommittee reports so senator Wallace you're recognized. Good morning madam chair good morning. Ma'am the personnel committee met on Wednesday October the nineteenth the doctor the executive recommendation for each of the departments and agencies listed in the report including a revised executive recognition for the attach special language for the public defender commission. The committee also heard a presentation from K. Barnhill with OPM regarding a proposed pay plan judgment and how those planetesimals fix the accepted recommendations no actions. No action was taken regarding the proposed pay plan that just. After discussion in A. L. C. in joint budget in its request of another member. I moved to adopt the port with the exception of the military department number six. Which is only port in which we will pull out and vote on separately. All right are there any questions regarding this motion. Is there a second. Second all those in favor say aye. And oppose ayes have it the report is adopted at Senator Hill you're recognized. Madam chair I make a motion to adopt the agency's request personnel for the military department along with adding one additional position of EM zero zero nine C. licensed certified social worker. At A. G. S. O. nine well you challenge program. All right and there's a second are there any questions on that motion. All right all those in favor say aye. And oppose ayes have it motion carries. That recommendation will be adopted all right moving on to be to. A let's see representative Cavenaugh. You're recognized thank you madam chair the special language subcommittee met on Tuesday October the nine teams at one thirty PM and report the following actions subcommittee adopted the legislative recommendations for agency language held over from the October the eleventh meeting those items are noted on the report subcommittee adopted the executive recommendations for agency language listed in the report the next report the next special language meeting will take place Wednesday October the twenty six at one thirty PM in the big mac baby room for adoption of the report okay are there any questions on this report. C. nine drive a seconds all those in favor say aye and oppose ayes have it the report is adopted thank you all right moving on to item C. we have a doctor Maria Markham if she can come to the table and Mr rice. Okay yes we have a hands out for you as members and then we will have Mister rice I believe discuss the handout and Dr Markham. At if you'll just all identify yourself for the records. I'm Henry Reis bill our staff. Maria Markham Division of higher ed. Nick fuller division of higher education. All right there pass up this handout members and then we're gonna discuss this handout. Okay Dr Martin can I discuss it. All right I think everybody's got one of the handout stock market okay thank you at the handout that you have in front of you are the productivity funding recommendations there's an increase of one point zero nine percent over the previous year that includes the spring semester twenty twenty which was the first academic term impacted by covid. Total new state funding recommendation is just over six point three million dollars but I would point out that there is only six hundred and fourteen thousand four hundred ninety new dollars of general revenue that would be added to the state allocation for institutions of higher at the remaining five point seven million dollars comes from that redistribution of one time incentive funds from FY twenty three so the state appropriation recommendation reflects the two percent adjustment about the funding levels to account for any fluctuations of other state funding sources such as ETS and the cash fund appropriation recommendation reflects institutional requests are based on individual needs of the campuses so I'm happy to take any questions about the productivity funding or other appropriation requests okay on this we do not have to adopt this but there will be Hey if you have a question US senator Hammer you're recognized for a question thank you ma'am chair can you speak to the ones that did not reserve that did not receive the productivity funding are you the transfer the reasons why they didn't get to the level to get it. so thank you for the question center Hammer that's what they're gonna be different reasons by institutions of a lot of those institutions did not see an increase in productivity over the previous year either because stays off your credentials the types of credentials were lower the types of students that they were able to be successful with did not have as many weighted productivity points of it could have also been that they had a really good year the for the previous year and they were unable to surpass the productivity from the prior year. Okay all right thank you you're welcome senator Chesterfield you're recognized thank you thank you and good morning everyone. Markham I guess I'm concerned about it the productivity model in the midst of a call the crisis. And there's absolutely no way I think except maybe university of Arkansas Fayetteville you gonna have people moving apace. With the student involvement and all the other things that go there it we do any any waiting or anything that would have. Taking into account of the challenges that are college university saying. As a result of covert that will Senator has to fill in that something that we were very concerned with not this year in particular but the previous year so of we had some conversations about changing the waiting to look at whether or not there was going to be a need for that however both the last two years we did see a productivity increase so we felt it was unnecessary to modify the model for that anomaly of a year and yes you are able to see the largest increase in productivity this year but there were several other universities and about half the two year colleges also sought increase so we didn't feel it was necessary to adjust them all Where that particular areas of the state that were most impacted explores loss of productivity and therefore loss of funding. I don't have this broken down regionally but I could do that for you Those that it doesn't seem to be a regional impact. Or state bill was was up Arkansas state university was up. At Little Rock was up as well as you CA so we've seen and I believe essay you okay was Monticello up no Monticello was not at this year in essay you tech. essay you tech. They were down this year but I believe they were the previous year and what about the whole community college overall community colleges were up one point zero nine percent the whole point hope Arkansas I would hope I'm sorry H. O. P. E. my hometown. The. You have Texarkana they were also down this year they were down the street or down in a I guess I'm I'm concerned because I'm looking at those areas and it troubles me because. What about those community college. If I'm I might add to that Sir Chesterfield next year we can be your seven of the productivity that will include a full academic year of when code was impacted this this year's distribution only included that spring semester twenty twenty the people is not letting that that information are funding work group continues to review these and see if there's a more of a drastic impact statewide that we may need to pause this for next year when they are colleges that will use money because they were not able to increase student participation and I don't I don't I correct in the areas that I'm talking about of the areas that can afford it probably the least so that's my concern thank you. Senator Elliot you're recognized. Thank you so much thank you say something about a of work working group we have a productivity when we okay a group of different presidents and chancellors and fiscal officers from the different campuses that meet and their purpose is to the right to review the model and see if there is any the model and I need impacts due to the way the model and and so with that in mind and I know this is always this walking on eggshells kind of thing this I remember when we put this model in place and and it was a matter of everybody was happy with it because that's what folks had to say I can't I give up so I'm just wondering if that same working group if they have the. I guess the. Gravitas maybe to take a look at this model and be able to respond to us earnestly for the not this is still a good thing that we are doing. And really be able to report to us outside of I know I'm asking for the moon here but outside of the any coercion of politics Is that something you think is possible with the working group be doing that kind of work of check in at. How will of research basis Rick this is really dependent on or is it something that we would just like to see. Up can I respond please do so as not to call up Dr Houston Davis who is the chair of the working group for me CA but I have I would say that that that group meets quarterly they meets and requests data runs from the Division so if they have something they want to see we provide the research for that and then that group makes those recommendations back up this is this change that we would like to see your light we think that we we can make of that group is working on a five year review right now that they're about to publish that looks at the impacts of the model and the things that they considered if they rejected those things or if they went ahead with that recommendation and why so that will be something I believe we have for our January coordinating board of is that five year review so it it's going to look at those metrics it looks how at how we've moved the needle is a state to see if the overall impact of the model was a positive one and also the increases in funding that higher at as as a community is seen as a result of that so I can't say that is completely independent from the politics of of what's going on but it is based and in data and research that these practices have made a positive impact on the state of higher it do you think would be a good idea perhaps if we had somebody look at the model outside of the higher ed institutions. Certainly somebody that total certainly yeah I we've had a lot of requests from outside entities to study are modeled because of of the uniqueness of that a lot of dissertations and doctoral students and then as well as my movement of foundation and complete college America have an interest in in our model as well. Well I as if as long as it's going to be the of the institutions themselves I would ask us to. Think about not just telling me what's. in the model for this work and according to the way it's set up would really like to have some understanding of whether or not We we have the bad news but I don't that's a bad because because Houston this is. You see a bears I think right of what use that one. But are we is that is this still a good model puree and not how the model we had working it's it's something that still used and Bills good information and shows us whether or not this is a good method for some of the funding of our higher institutions is this something we should be doing in the first place. Based on seven years of work. So. Thank you. Thank you I have a quick question EACC East Arkansas Community College actually looks like they had the largest percentage increase at eight point three percent that's beyond the University of Arkansas at fabled that we're is East Arkansas forgive me where is that located that's in forest city for any city in part of their increases due to the fact that they absorb Crowley's ridge technical institute so a lot of the increase in their credentials come from the merger of those two institutions okay and then it looks like is that Ozark a college as well had a pretty significant percentage increase seven point five one percent yes may I have a two year that's your call it over and then I you ACC be eight point five four percent increase that's also community college is that correct that's correct and then I you A. C. C. R. M.. Ridge mountain and meaner and meaner five point three three percent and Meena and that's a two year college is that correct that's correct thank you senator Hammer you're recognized for a question thank you ma'am chair I'm asking because I don't know but I know some of the colleges you know County high school students in their populations does that have any bearing or effect on the performance the productivity. It does so the the high school students that are included have an impact on the two year college productivity rates anytime a high school student completes a credential or completes a gateway course they count just as though they were a postsecondary student they do not count for gateway courses on the university side only with those students recruited. So. If they were taken out of the scenario if they were taken out of the picture what kind of impact or do you have it down in the weeds detailed enough to know that they were taken out of the picture how the productivity numbers would look otherwise we could we could review that and give you that with those the students taken out we routinely run FTP and head count numbers taking those students out we don't typically run that for productivity but that is something that we could provide if you'll send that to the chair and the consent it out okay can follow up question thank you So taking on the on the matter of the ones that are not getting productivity funding. And they are not going to get the money that the other ones are that have the higher project productivity correct correct okay so we're gonna take money away from those is it I mean on that almost seems like an adverse effect that we're taking away from those that did not reach productivity because they've got less money to do it maybe needs to be done in order to reach those productivity level so I'm curious and like to hear your thoughts on is that the best way to address this is that Administration Management circumstances either control because it seems like when we take money away from those that are what kind of adverse effect is it having on them I can say that yes it does have an adverse impact I think any time you reduce the budget for an institution there is there some adverse impact there and and difficult decisions have to be made at the at the leadership level but I will also say I think that was the intent of productivity funding when it was passed that those institutions to worse except more successful would receive more funding. So whether or not that's the best way to do it I can't I can't answer that but I think the intent was reward those with more productivity with the funds that would have been used at the institution to have lower productivity do you ever do a side by side comparison of those that are getting productivity and maybe it's out there I just haven't seen it but I'm just like in the ones that did reach it outside of maybe things that are out of their control but Kohli for example whatever to see the best practices of those that are achieving versus those that are not achieving yes where where do I find that so I can do a side by side comparison because as a legislator I want to know what you don't need to get more money because you didn't do a good job with what you had otherwise you would be in a position or inverses things that are out of their control that there just may not get to the measure to the to the high water mark because of things they don't have any control over. Right I don't know that I have anything that like a quantitative analysis of practices that one institution versus the other we do have the institutions who are receiving additional productivity present to all of the institutions pretty regularly on the things that they're doing the positive things that they've done on their campus to impact those those numbers and they share that with the other institutions I can't really prove a negative on those that are not doing those things but I can I can provide. Some feedback from the institutions if you would like please thank you. All right representative back you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair of I've heard that the term of the production model is working used a few times. So Hey and I might be this might be a really simple question are really hard question on which one is but. Help me out with the parameters. That you would say if this printer goes up the product the model is working at this printer does down it is not just give it maybe gives a little thank you for that question and that is why I say that the model is working because the goals that we set for the model initially or to increase the number of our Kansans with credentials to reduce the time it takes a a college student to reach their their degree four years for for your student two years for a two years student reduce the number of credits those students have when they complete their degree so they're saving their themselves and their families some money on the way to getting that. To serve more students who were in traditionally underserved roles are under represented minorities our adult populations are students with remedial needs to increase the number of those students who are successful in getting through to their credentials so when we've done our reviews of the model really that's our measure are we increasing the number of our Kansas with credentials have we reduce the cost of higher education to the students and families are we serving those populations more efficiently and effectively in the answered all those questions is yes so our individual institutions some are losing money summer games gaining money maybe that's undesirable for those that are losing and and when for those that are gaining but as a state we're seeing an increase in the quality and a decrease in the cost of higher education. Thank you. A representative Springer. Good morning thank you madam chair four so would one find the productivity funding criteria is that something that is available on your website or is it is on our website so there's the statute that created it but then there are also three sets of administrative rules one for two year colleges one for four year colleges and one for the way we use those scores to distribute funds so your website Arkansas website thank you. Okay representive what. The representative wouldn't. Thank you Mr chairman member secretary of. Well as you flew questions if it's appropriate at this time about the deferred maintenance and the maintenance budget is that is that proper right now okay. My first question is everybody has wish list and we you had one point two six billion in request and you funded two hundred twenty six million. That's roughly fifteen eighteen percent twenty percent what what how do you arrive at that number. I'm gonna for that too Assistant Director fuller. We do take a percentage for recommendations based on that the various Carnegie classifications of each institution we have a a breakdown of the level that we will recommend up to a certain point for each classification I can send you that you like to see how much we we recommend up to that point and say on the the turn twenty six million of funding that is just recommended you know in the past this I'm sorry in the current biennium we recommended of around one hundred and ninety million dollars of funding and about twelve million of that have been funded in this two years so it's it's not expected that a majority of this will be funded so we're clear again back here you're talking about a wish list we we try to bring these projects back down somewhat of a reasonable room the wish lists them yes Sir so. The two hundred twenty six million what do you anticipate about the fund. I don't have any and anticipates an expectation for what would be funded that would be a was legislature to distribute those funds follow up information on Jan yes please Deferred maintenance three point six billion. And your recommending sixty men and you say that a lot of projects but twenty twenty five recall of these. Where they're going to structural damage or equipment damage Sir and we're said bill of three point six billion dollar estimate. Yes Sir the. Thank you. Backwards we're not making any yes Sir and again that's that's another program that that does not have a dedicated stream of funding to support that maintenance is maintenance needs we are looking at ways we might can present a proposal to create a fund to offer some offset to the deferred maintenance but currently there's not a dedicated funding stream for deferred maintenance on campus thank you thank you Mr chairman I have some further questions or later in the queue thank you. Representative Hodges. Well represented Clerk said and I'm sorry I was reading I'm so sorry thank you so much for all your hard work I know this funding formula is a little bit difficult just before the committee could you give a little bit of all review the history of how long this formula's been in place and who helped write the formula for us. Yes yes Sir thank you for that question so the initial funding model was passed in two thousand seventeen. I was the director of the division and that was it and a part of the governor's legislative package in the agency supported bill the work group that helped design the the criteria the details for the formula was cross sectional between the institutions of higher ed and that group has evolved over time so now that's the steering group so this is now I think the fifth year our sixty year a recommendations as a result of that prior to that point we used what was called the Delaware model to recommend funding for institutions of higher it was a cost model that looked at what we should be giving institutions to do the things that they should be doing and that model had recommended upwards of a hundred and thirty million dollars a year in excess of what we were funded so much like the deferred in critical maintenance we recommend that a very large number for higher and we got a percentage of that so this was a a way to help institutions of higher ed who had grown and who were doing really well start to capture some additional funding support that because over time the percentage of state funds to to support institutions of higher ed as opposed to tuition and fees had declined so institutions were really suffering and being able to provide quality higher education to their to the students and in our state. So we're about six years in with the funding of we have now grown the contribution of of RSA to hire read in the first time in about fifteen years so we're we're happy with that it's not a huge increase in to the contribution of of a state pending but I think all the institutions would agree that they're grateful for for the additional assistance so that's a very high level history. All right thank you. Representative Springer. Thank you again madam chair and I have gone on to the website to see your of productivity funding model can you do you have the supporting documentation what I mean by the rubric is to how you scored each one of the universities that information available for testing and that is a little harder to find on the website but there that the technical specifications I believe it's under our institutional research area and that that gets down to exactly how information is pulled out of our Arkansas higher ed information system and applied to okay so I can find that you can drill down much deeper in the weeds so yeah I start out high level and get more and more detail all right thank you so much. I look at it and that this is additional money we're this isn't is that correct the sick these are additional for productivity yes at the the request is for additional dollars there is some variation between and within institution some go up somewhere down but we're all state increase yes correct let me so and so this isn't decree or not taking money away from not a not as upset activity for formula we're not taking money away from these institutions thanks on this productivity model or formula there there are some institutions that had negative productivity funds will be reduced right from the recommendation to be reallocated from the rounds with respect to the right yes ma'am yeah I will add as we're looking at who is productive and who's not when we do this is comparing the institution to themselves how they write in prior years like a PR we're not we're not we're not comparing one two year to another to your right and say they're productive they're not right here in the south it's a comparison to themselves yes former years yes right yes okay which is good I think that's great representive Richmond you're recognized thank you madam chair of going back to representative will answer questions about maintenance and everything this whole seeming to get deeper does does the higher education institution today Richard Lai entirely upon state funding to address their maintenance issues. No Sir for for the need in the majority of their institutional facility request they use their own. Cash funds tuition fee revenues auxiliary revenues bond issues loans to be able to to meet those needs we don't have state funding to go towards those facility needs. Follow up yes. You do you do request a finding though which is what you're doing here trying to get sixty million to a much larger problem yes Sir when you those things and so that you would you say this problem is getting worse yes Sir and how is the higher education institutions addressing that outside of state funded. Outside of state funding they have to raise tuition they have to pass bonds they're leveraging debt. and there are shuddering buildings in some situations and I've got one campus who has three state funded buildings that have a lot of usable life left UPV last time other than other campus because of some of their infrastructure needs they can't they can't use their buildings. All right thank you thank you manager. Thank you so my question I mean there's a lot of new built in there's a lot of proposals for new bills as well so I'm not sure how I square you know deferred maintenance to difficult as new buildings and so you know there's a lot of funding requests out there for new bills and left and right The New jails are we just ignoring the leaky roof and then building a new building so that a lot of the new bills are are being used for the way that they're being funded is usually a combination of private gifts some kind of loan a little bit of tuition and fees it's call together you know that's contributing to the. Re doing a roof is not sexy Wingate doesn't want to pay for an institution to fix their H. back but they will build a new arts building on their campus so we have a very we have an an even make nets versus new build it's it's a lot easier for the federal government to give us a our program to build a new building and to renovate or replace clay pipes under a facility so it's what you're able to get financing for new buildings you can finance all buildings you can't necessarily do that but they're still State Building sitting on state property and they're falling apart because we really don't have a mechanism to maintain those. Add on a lot of that The New elect the bond issues on issues that are done for institutions to build these new buildings there is a about a policy with our coordinating board that the institution has to set back a certain dollar amount per square footage for maintenance for those new buildings that wasn't in place more than ten years ago when a lot of the older buildings were built so as the new ones are built there is funds being set aside for maintenance of those newer buildings okay all right thank you senator Hammer thank you measure to be two quick questions the one on the university's compare themselves to previous years on the productivity who auditor what's the process to determine that that act that information is accurate. So all that information is information that we received from the associations there are higher it reporting system we run all of that we turn it back forward facing to the institution they have an opportunity to make any changes or clean up or point out anything that might be incorrect so that is a collaborative effort between the division and the institutions. So the auditing of the information. So that is not you know so that it's more than just self reporting you're looking at it sending it back who actually looks at the data of the information is being submitted by the university to verify that what they're sending you if you're looking at does that fall upon you are you've got to internal organization within higher ed audits that now it's internal to the division within higher ed not within the institution itself but not in an area that higher it okay and then the second one the the building that was just mention you know somebody comes in they want to build a new building. Can can you get a list of the buildings that are in repair you mention about some buildings being state owned somewhere bill you know by somebody maybe I'm just not getting it right but of the buildings or on the universities that are in a state of disrepair that equates to this large number are some of them like they all become possession of the University of a session of the state at the time that they're built and given is that right that's correct. I'm just curious if somebody builds a building and we're sitting here twenty thirty years down the road that building needs repairs where is it in the budget and where is it that we got behind in the budget that this amount has built up to be such a large amount is building a building is a great gift but if the maintenance costs that building now shifts over to the institution where you build that into your budget that we've got so far behind the right ear and as Mr fuller mention until about ten years ago there was no requirement for the institutions to build that maintenance and other budget now there is but you know there are there instances where institutions reject gifts of buildings because of that when I met with doctor Robinson at UAF F. several months ago there had been offered to build a new building on his campus is that I can't maintain anymore buildings even if I had a building placed on my campus then I'm gonna have to budget for the maintenance and operations of that building and and they were not able to do that so it has to be a consideration when new buildings are built how those will be maintained. Ongoing I know it you a Fort Smith building was built last year and part of the of the financing for that building from Wingate was an ongoing maintenance operation budget they included that in their guests of but that doesn't always happen show the total dollar amount that we're looking at having to make up the difference of is that a dollar amount that is represented in buildings pre dating what we did ten years ago we've just never captured that amount ten years with that window of ten years ago and back yes that's the sum total correct okay in the costs continue to rise each year I'm sorry and the costs continue to rise each year and that that we don't fund those I mean allow that can I mean questions continue on this that were actually on the productivity formula model so if we can just get back to you know that we we can bring up those other things specific to the institutions which is the next thing that we're going to discuss Senator Elliott you're recognized. Madam chair I'll I don't know if my question's going to be exactly in the productivity model I can make a case that it would affect it so I'll go ahead and you can just decide but what I ask that as of you is can you tell us I don't mean right now but just to the maybe would make a report and come back to us of the last twenty years maybe or ten What this state funding has been percentage wise of the last ten I know it's gone down year by year by year by year I'd like to see that laid out somewhere that shows us how much of their budget hi yes yes overall because I know in some cases and and in many states that's been very very precipitous fall and I'd like to see that it has and we can provide that okay thank you all right thank you okay last one representive witness. Represent what did you have a question yes okay if the money up okay several personnel of us as permissible of do you have the total salary calls. Overall the institutions. With you today. That we do not have that summed up total do you have or have it for the Department. For the agency the I do not that would be part of the department education budget when we present that in I think well let me move all of could you get that for us will Borgen number is two motions just will not told how employee. Salaries at institutions and then break out I'm in a line for your yes at the next next question is do you you you pay health benefits do you pose a health benefits home vacant positions we do not have you do not no Sir all right next question of of money to the chairman of total positions of the institutions that are vacant. The you know that. I do not have the to the total number with this this morning. The what on the total bank you have. Mr wooden up as of June twenty second the total vacant positions for institutions was eleven thousand five hundred and seven totally under a physician's yes of those how many were two years old or older I do not have that information but we can get that for you. Can you do you show in your budget anywhere interest income and interest expense. And are that the this is probably a question maybe for item B. to do you want to I mean see to do you want to. On the back on the budget themselves and not on the productivity plan that we're discussing the answer my questions and chairman do they include their interests the institutions do yes and what about your interest income the usual that. The institution is gorgeous the report is great okay but it doesn't cover law okay from a budget okay. Okay can you give me those numbers your interest and you show that is a budget interest income and interest expense it is not its own it's not its own line item on the on the reports there's not a the individual line item for interest income or expense do you think there ought to be in the in the US pretty sizeable amount of money. It it has not been reported in the past we can create that line due to present that I would request set of you know also like to know how many positions have been vacant for two years or longer yes I have been are you will discuss personnel later what we believe that we have that prepared for the personnel subcommittee all right okay all right president Clinton if you'll just hold I'm gonna keep you on to answer your questions but but let us go ahead and move to Mr rice presenting the the budgets for the that the institutions and then representative very not just keep your mind on and then you can continue to ask questions because you're asking about I think what he's about to present about the okay so let me go ahead and move to you there's no other questions on this thank you for that report on the productivity funding distribution as spreadsheet so we'll move to item C. to Mr rice you're recognized. Thank you madam chairman Henry Reis bill or staff if you please look at the document entitled summary of institutions of higher education which should be on your desk. It's a summary of appropriations that we hope will assist you in your decision making today you'll be looking at and making a decision on the appropriations for treasury cash and other appropriations that are in this binder. And the binder is broken down the first volume is the university's and after that is the college's. And going back to the summary there's three parts and on the first part you'll see the treasury appropriations and those are paid from revenue stabilization fund educational excellence and workforce two thousand funds and if you read it from left to right it will show you the institution and the fund will show you the page that the appropriation appears on in the manuals and it will show you the authorize appropriations that they currently have in this fiscal year. And after that the Arkansas higher ed education coordinating board that's a heck B. recommendation for the next two fiscal years that's fiscal years twenty four and twenty five. And the columns after that show the change in the dollar amount for the next biennium as well as the percent change from the current authorized appropriation levels. So the far right column it It has asterisk and One Acerus will show line item changes to asters will show either an addition or deletion of a line item in three ACT three Oscars will indicate the deletion or addition of a new appropriation section. So on this first page it totals the four year institutions at the bottom. The second page of your handout totals the two year institutions in the same format and these are still the treasury fund appropriation summaries. On the third page is the beginning of the cash appropriation summaries and these are paid from their tuition and fees sales in federal funds it also has the same format. And going to the very last page we have a we call other appropriations on this handout includes tobacco funding special revenues from court filings that go to the university of Arkansas and U. ale our law schools and breast cancer research funds among others madam chairman that's all I have on the summary. Okay so representative wouldn't you're still on are there other questions that you need to ask this effect to this report you may have answered and Yes the local this report. A central institution cost of. Forty six million is that the total. Expenses what a jury on Sir Page of. Two of the summer though the vote Mrs total all institution nine hundred and forty six million two hundred sixty three thousand so that's the total of their treasury appropriation for the current fiscal year so that state funding and if you wanted an all inclusive amount other appropriation total you would need to include the cash appropriation which is on page four so that's approximately five point four billion okay that's what okay let's one okay. This is just on the institutions just on institution Sir thank you madam chairman appreciated yes Sir okay representative team here recognized. I have a question for the the agency when it gets up here okay. For which agent which institution Dr Markham okay Dr Markham. I'm a recognized yes okay thank you ma'am Dr Markham up we talked about this earlier and the southern Arkansas university funding. and I'm not I'm not take already institutional name any institution but of and I realize we're not funded only if the but the so that Arkansas and Roman is gone over five thousand and and when I think this. This formula was funded we released forty four hundred and schools that had twenty eight hundred and Roman have significantly. Of more money on their base from the state that so that Arkansas university you address how we got there and I know was that part that owns formula but that that formula's be change schools and Romans change programs get added to schools of or lot of stuff regionally Education in Louisiana got higher we got a lot of Louisiana students cross the border of explain the funding of it has a deal with southern Arkansas university in and why it's so under funded compared to other four year institutions that are its size or smaller sure and thank you for that question of what happened with the essay you as well as some of the other institutions is at the time that they're based funding was set they were much smaller other institutions in the state required so they're they're funding per student at the time that it was set was relatively similar over the course of the last twenty years we've seen some institutions get much larger other institutions have lost population due to. Some reasons other than they can control some just are killing it like I say either got a great job of recruiting students of that because we never really funded based on a per student basis when you break it down on the number of dollars per student we have some that are out of line and as I use one of those there they've grown a lot they did not see their funding increase steadily as they grew and now we're in a position where for the number of students they have they really are adequately funded. Thank you just this year's enrollment what we're going to have a three point eight percent increase in funding and essay use enrollment has jumped over fifteen percent so it it doesn't match up and before we get into the session Manimal asset we flag so that Arkansas university budget I would like to have a discussion with with your group and and and see what we can do. Members also let you know that the there are representatives here from all of the institutions I believe so if you have a specific question to any particular institution we can also call them up to answer any of those questions do you have any specific questions for a say you to come to the table and discuss or answer because I can bring them up at this time will if if if president Mary is is engine and get up that table out of. That's what. Thank you Dr Martin. If you'll just and state your name for the record and then at you're recognized. Trey berry president southern Arkansas university. Nineteen I'm over here of. What I was discussing only all funding kind of explain. Where your ad on enrollment and and want to give we're not taking on any other institution where I'm I'm concerned with making southern Arkansas university hold explain the dilemma that you're in on all the increase in enrollment and as such a small amount of funding that you have been increased yes Sir up Dr Markham was exactly right our funding base was set decades ago when a S. A. U. is really half the size of that it is today that base has stayed the same as we have grown and this year we we broke the five thousand mark with the same amount of based funding per student it makes it very difficult but we're doing a very good job of budgeting and making sure we can do the best we can with what we have but it is a struggle it's a great thing that we're growing we're going to continue to do that I think it's good for self Arkansas that we continue to do that but it is a struggle to have the same based funding we've had for literally decades. And I have a follow up yes please of it explain kind of what you've done on your tuition I know we try to work on in the south for the state of the income the lower of have you addressed your tuition over the last few years we know that we we have a different demographic of students that are from lower socio economic and we try to do our best to keep that low over the past three years I think our tuitions gone up about two point three percent and so that's deliberate on our part but we also know that we have to do a better job and fund raising we have to do a better job and budgeting to keep us between the ditches as they say. Create it and I do want to flag so that Arkansas university it has like all right all right thank you thank you ma'am thank you. You have a question okay okay. Any other Hey does anybody else have a question for okay. Not for them okay out of that I will defer to senator Elliots go ahead okay recognized thank you madam chair Dr very I know that many times when there is growth it matters greatly for funding growth and what areas like what kind of degrees are you having to pay for now and a lot of that growth could you just give me an idea of. With the with the student growth what kind of degrees are the ones of the most most representative of the growth and what are the degrees that costs the most form to funded that a student to go through as set you thank you. Without a doubt our growth as being primarily in the stem areas of which is science technology engineering has grown we start engineering program six years ago we have over two hundred fifty students in that program now as you can imagine all the equipment for engineering is very expensive nursing program all of our pre health has grown significantly and then our computer science program he has drastically increased as you can imagine with all the technology needed for those graduate programs and those undergraduate programs your sites it's very expensive and so yes we love the growth but that growth is in areas that are very expensive to maintain because at that and the fact that I might come to essay you and I'm and stand area it's going to cost a whole lot more front for me to get the degree that this state desk desperately needs help I don't leave. But it would it costs a lot more but tuition wise does it cost more for me as a stem student to get a degree than anybody else is just students students right now member does not cost you any differently but it it does cost institution more to educate you and is there anything in the formula in our state formula that accounts for that how how does the form account for nine years is to stem student and I'm going to cost a whole lot more than anybody else how do we handle that I think there is there's a there is a part of the formula that weighs heavier on some stem areas and graduate areas the budget but it doesn't pay totally for that student that cost a whole lot more. maybe that's something you all can talk about when you get back with the doctor Davis and others when you get back to having your discussion about the our formula I know you talk I know it be talking about productivity formula but I think that's a an important part of what it means for our colleges and universities to produce and that very areas that we need to so badly so thank you so much for your response thank you but we need to find tuition are there additional fees that are included into the tuition because I mean I know my my kids were in different programs and there were additional fees that they have to to pay for an addition absolutely that if you're if you're in certain stem areas there are fees ease that you're paying that are different than others right but it's not drastically different okay but that there is a little bit of a difference this either in that kind of a program so they may have to pay additional fees correct to cover the expenses of that that's correct thank you I just want to clarification on that okay thank you I think there's no other questions for you thank you so much representative makes you're recognized thank you madam chair being a tech guy my questions are related to our on and there somebody here thank you feel come to the table. And so mistranslated be able to answer my my first question on there or appropriation on page one nineteen. There are no authorized three million. And the new recommendations on drop that a two point one but everything else is all zeros on that page so is this just a pass through appropriation. Or is that better life to the agency okay agency appeal identifier name for the record anyways you want her I'm the executive director or on we receive no general revenue funds this request represents what our next priorities are we're interested in replacing some of the equipment on or where we provide broadband services to colleges universities and hospitals in the state so this is reflective of our future priorities. And I'm way over here you're far far far right okay so can can you explain the appropriation on one nineteen why it's all zeros except for the three million dollars authorized and then looks like the recommendations dropped from three million to twenty one hundred two point one million. I believe it's because we did not receive any of those funds and and none of them were were spent okay I so that preparation still needed then the the the priorities change and so the amount requested has been changed as well. Okay. So we still do need that a appropriation and yes that would help offset some of the expenditures and and we're revenues that we would need to receive from the schools to take on that project okay and then on your your main appropriation on one twenty two. Least one point to the R. R. manual You that the request is for twenty four and a half million dollars for capital improvement looks like there was nothing spent on that last year or this year. do you have a source of funds for those capital improvement projects for that twenty four million dollars or is that just we hope to get money to build a use for capital improvements yeah generally that's what this line is reserved for it is federal or state grant funding Do you generally the programs are not the same every year but we keep a certain amount of appropriation request in case we receive those currently we have about thirty six million in request out that are under review we don't anticipate spending all that and one single fiscal year and so this is the level we think is appropriate for the expenditures that we might might have if we are to receive those okay so so you actually do have potential funds coming in for that line item yes yes we do our our actual right thank you thank you Mr okay are there any other questions for the gentleman at the table. Thank you senator Hammer you're recognized thank you measure I'd like to ask doctor mark a question then you have a system please okay if someone from your Vice systems can come forward as well. So on the question of up to one Charmin what have made me sir let them come to the table and identify themselves for the record. All right go ahead. F. you'll identify yourself to the for the record five. I'm not talking about a president universe of Arkansas System. Okay Senator Hammer you're recognized morning the first fall for miss Markham when when we hear discussion around enrollment numbers. Does that include high school students that are calculated into the enrollment numbers of the institution as reflected on anything in the way of financial request. So that's a yes and a no okay so anytime you hear and roll but numbers high school students are included. But enrollment numbers are not a consideration in productivity funding. Okay not so much productive funding but the request for appropriation because what does it take more time if if the unit if the institutions are County high school students in their enrollment number for what those high school students are enrolled is it costs more to educate a high school student less for the same as say a traditional student that is counted enrollment I'm going to. Give a broad generalization that it costs less and that is because a percentage of the students are being educated after high school campus what a high school teacher and they are using a lot of resources at the college there are going to be high school students that are attending at the college with a college instructor and would be consuming similar resources as a college student but I would say in general those high school students are. Cheaper or similarly cost to educate. So how are we as a legislature supposed to distinguish that when institutions come and say they need more programs because their role but is up how do we know or help me understand how we should know for the request of appropriation or any increase in funding the distinction between the enrollment being up because of high school students that if I understood your right don't cost as much to educate versus traditional how are we supposed to separate those numbers out orders or somewhere out there that we could see that so we can make a good decision we can provide that to you with and without the high school students in the calculation. Okay manager can we get that please if yes okay we'll send that to the chair and then we'll send it out okay Mister and a question for doctor Bob please yes on the on the spreadsheet that we've got a front of this when I look at the U. of a system part of it you M. S. maybe you want to call the individual ones up but if I'm reading this right it would appear that some of them are going to go away. After twenty four twenty five for example the the Garvan woodland the prior center for history and the Arkansas centers for rural education autism related disabilities it in mind misreading that or can you help me make sure I'm interpreting those numbers right. I'm sorry I will defer to to our CFO for the system to who has up to date information thank you I feel just a second name for the record then you may proceed. Thank you Terence Smith CFO for the US system office Senator Hammer think you're speaking specifically to some of the appropriations that previously or approved for very issue a fait it bill operations and you know if a bill has elected to not continue to request those appropriations they have not been funded in the past so that's where you will see they're going to zero I'm from the standpoint of the recommendation as they were not requested okay and do you know of for example like the the centers for rural education autism related disabilities is that being picked up by somebody else covered by somebody else or do you know or we can offline discussion on that I do believe we have representatives here from the University of Arkansas I do not believe that those operations are going away but they probably be able to speak to answer that question okay and then the last question would be this down on like UAMS on healthcare initiatives if I'm interpreting that right there's there's a request for additional funding right at five hundred thousand is that correct my interpreting that right. That is correct yes Sir and you know what that's going to be used for I know the you know like with the discussion about the shortage of health care providers nurses et cetera does that have anything to do with that or what's the increase requested amount for I and I do think that you a mess is also here present they can speak to the specifics that are involved in the expenditures that would be supported with those revenues if they were to be funded. With the chair allow letter you wanted to for for second time read it me just talked him off line I mean we can bring them if they're there after here go ahead and have them come up to the table. Let's go ahead and get the the questions answered as as best we can. Thank you thank you for having everybody here to we appreciate that very very much. All right if you will just state your names for the record and then I you're recognized for seed. Amanda George CFO for UAMS. The Davis Stephen an. There's a first time eighty Davis UAMS you might notice that says that that. In mind board just lit up. Senator Hammer you're recognized thank you like to direct my question to representative Davis if I may please. Kid ninety up there against the health care initiative the four hundred ninety seven can she just had a high level what is going to be used for housing going to improve anything. I can answer that one and that four hundred ninety seven thousand is part of an overall increase that eighty eight G. recommended for this state funding initiative so it's just a seven percent increase and then you'll see that in all of our requests. And then on the is to prove real health transformation can you explain those numbers for me that the last question that you manager will. Senator Hammer I'll take that one there's a plan for well I want to say there's a plan there is. Put it on the representatives wish list to create a rule health institute in Arkansas it would be a partnership between multiple organizations such as the rule hospital partnership and that appropriation request would just be a. appropriation mechanism for that if a funding source is identified in the future there's not one identified at this time okay thank you thank you Mr are there any other questions for the fact that the table representive wooden you're recognized yes first of all the rule. Autism area I would encourage all to to look at that closely and include that two and a half million dollars in their hands I came I can cram school up to a half million dollars. Are not doing was and never put did you never receive the money. Reserve that's a you university of Arkansas Fayetteville progression that you're correct it's never been funded okay we need to we need to address that question. Nursing school. I have received information the nursing schools in Arkansas are being told. If there rate of retention and study does not increase. They're funding will decrease. Is that true. They're funding will decrease because their funding is controlled by. Hard coordinating board racks what might happen is if their their pass rates for their licensure decrease they may lose their approval to the passing right I'm talking about. There are millions some of whom have been told. At least the information gun is that funding if they if a student graduates from the nursing school and goes outside of the state to seek employment that the facilities funding may be cut as a result of that they pass them through their done but to go outside of the state that is incorrect we do not have a metric on employment for the one that we don't have a metric on employment for students after they graduate so that is unrelated to their funding so you you don't know. There. Though they haven't been told not by not by the higher ed. OR is not higher it. What are you saying the million institution may have totally. Anything is possible yes well anything is possible I think what so what you're saying is we don't collect that kind of data to be able to make that even if you wanted to we have no mechanism to kind of like that kind of data to. Make any kind of a decision like that it probably exists but at this point don't collect it and we don't use it United. Thank you madam chairman yes Sir a representative Springer you're recognized for a question yes ma'am thank you madam chair about this is that you for these individuals okay all right anybody else have questions okay a representative Vaught just hold represent Springer representative Vaught thank you thank you madam chair for Dr Markham I know that We have a large workforce issue in our state and I'm wondering if there's anything in the formula for the non credit workforce that I know a lot of our two year colleges actually do far areas I know you a cost hot does a lot at what they call non credit workforce training can you tell me if in the formula there's anyway that they get funding for that or credit for that so. In the productivity funding there's no metric for non credit workforce the funding that the institution receives can be used for that but they're not measured on it in the formula there's been some conversation on adding a metric to that. However so far those conversations have dead ended because of the volatility of the those outcomes the number of hours that get done at the two year colleges year over year it swings pretty violently depending on the economy and the employers in their area we've also had some conversations or productivity our essays is only one piece of the fund that the state funding that the institutions received so looking at some of those other special revenues and deciding whether wanted to hide some kind of outcome to the ETF finder the workforce two thousand finds that the institutions get so the answer your question is the funding can be spent on non credit workforce however there's not a metric that measures that I would I would think that that's very important in most rural areas that we have this type of of noncredit. A training that's going on in our areas so I'm wondering how much it's costing our colleges that they're not getting money for and they're having to take away rob from Peter to pay Paul if you can kind of give me around about about how much that cost our colleges I would appreciate that. I'll see what I can produce just higher read it may be something that we have to engage the institutions and okay to find the number yes thank you madam chair and also identify the different funding sources that they are using for those type of programs I think would be helpful senator Wallace you're recognized. Don't have one okay. Hello how are you today I would agree with the end of it from my point of view anything that our colleges can do that. Get our graduate to a job afterwards we need to be able to track that. it does no good for somebody to spend four years in college and Recca thirty thousand dollars in debt and not have a job when it comes out with some people can go to your should come out with a great job Arkansas northeastern center example that they have the highest the. salary of graduates in the state of Arkansas. what can we do to help with that. So we're in process of this state longitudinal data system is is new it's in its infancy and a lot of the state agencies are now feeding into that data system so that we can do exactly what what you mention we've known that that's always needed to be a part of it but we haven't been able to reliably measure institutions there's there's been a lot of holes in it those individuals who go to work for the military the federal government across state lines there's lots of people who are captured and so as all of those holes are plugged in we're able to provide some reliable information on how those income those outcomes are distributed throughout the state will be able to add metrics for that so yes I completely agree with you I just think that we are not yet to the point that I can't hold institutions accountable for things that I can't verify. I hope we get there quick thank you ma'am manager you're welcome and also that also ties into the higher a consumer guide legislation that we passed last time yes yes and those are all published now okay or each institution so is that just describe that for the membership really quickly so the higher consumer guide is basically a scorecard it It let students know with the success rates for that the students how much it costs to go there what their outcomes are so that students can compare and have to make an informed choice about their institution so we've provided one for all of our institutions in the state is not available online and institutions provided to students when they're admitted correct and and so that is on your website correct okay right other any other questions for the folks at the table all right C. nine we will be fine a representative Springer you're recognized which institution or you have a question about you a little rock UA little rock. Somebody is here from UA little rock if you will come Fort. Members it's my intention since it is ten fifteen this is the last question I have right now it is my intention to go ahead and push through and not take a lunch break but history and to move on to item D. and then we'll have everything done by lunch and we will not have to meet this afternoon. A representative Springer you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair good morning doctor Ellen and let me just let you all is in a fire suffer the records first and then you may proceed. Christina derailed UA little rock. Johnny was. One more time please. It needs to be read only turns. Okay go ahead Johnny leave you a little rock okay. Hi Jerry against vice chancellor for finance and administration. Thank you thank you all for being here today as you all know we have doctor ally and tourney here have had conversations about your funding sources over the past year or so and as I look at page. Two twenty your funding sources. A we have specifically talked about the funds that you have you all received from the Charles of your Donaldson. funding and I'm trying to locate on your funding sources on page two nineteen to twenty four is that line item specific line item located in the of the fund the funding sources that you show here on your page. And and in the end if you can tell ME Cority is the Intel me what the balance is with respect to that account that funding source. Well it comes in to our account as a grant funds so I will defer to my CFO where grant funds in this. A spreadsheet. For. Ma'am generally grant funds would be paid to the federal funds will that be the cash appropriation on page two twenty which you reference in the current fiscal year they received about two point nine million of federal funds it could be in that line item but I I would have to defer okay so but this did not come to this particular funding did not come from the federal grant even though you're saying that it may be in that particular fund source. I what what was the grant program the reference Charles W. W. Donaldson academy. It was a it was educational fund it came from of the case of the Little Rock School District versus the Pulaski County special school district it initially was funded in the amount of ten million dollars in that that fund was awarded to the university back in twenty fifteen and I'm trying to decide what is the current balance of the grant fund that was provided to the university. We'll have to get back to you on that okay. With would you let that would for me please thank you yes we will have representive Wooten year questions for these folks him form of. Drug Director higher in okay anybody else have questions for you it. All right three nine thank you so much for being here and if you'll get that information to us that would be appreciated. All right. Back. To the table thank you. Representative weight when you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman just so. Everyone will thank senile know that she's not a secretary but I think that position all to be a secretary position and not replicated down to the directorship. my question is do you all budget anything for remedial. efforts of students coming out of school. A yes the institutions do. I don't necessarily budget but they have to provide an allocation of how much they're spending at the institution level on remedial efforts because those that have anything to do with the former Leding of the formula it it's not part of the funding it but it is a metric so institutions who much like stem the doctor berry mentioned earlier when an institution has success with the stem student or remedial student actually get three times the multiplier on their productivity funding so we give them a lot more credit for being successful with students who are starting out behind do you know alike that were behind do you know what the total cost to the to the institution's for remain a remedial efforts. I don't have it with me today but we do have that posted on our website we have annually okay we have a report. Thank you madam chairman thank you madam secretary. All right thank you. Senator Elliot you're recognized it is for for these okay can you tell me in a in a kind of a macrocosm way two years ago I used to keep up with this the three top cost for up for operating higher ed I know technology was one of them I remember well I don't remember and I'm just one and what it is now because I'd like to be able to. Look at those top drivers and compare it to funding and maybe over the years. So this is again very broad generalization with the top costs this personnel so up more than seventy percent of the budget for higher education our faculty and and student support staff so that's number one at the second would be infrastructure mainly critical deferred maintenance and not to go back to that but one of the reasons some of our institutions struggle so much as they have to use that event budget that we provide their productivity to address those critical mark maintenance it's basically. Being out fires literally as those things come up so personnel critical deferred maintenance and in technology and technology often struggles because things that were budget for technology and IT getting spent on those critical deferred maintenance emergency so our technology on our campus many times is not up to par with what it should be because of that's for those are three artists destruction of the of the three of them have they have you seen a specialist assigned personnel major increases in the costs of personnel or has that pretty much been held flat or I would not. Say we've seen an increase in cost I think we've seen a huge increase in the inability to have longevity in our personnel so we have lots and lots of turnover of much of that is because it's so inflationary sensitive and we don't have an inflationary adjustment in the way we fund those positions of COVID was a huge driver because a lot of our knowledge workers were able to seek employment and more flexible environments where they weren't expected to come to campus and they had a little more control over their their work environment so much like with state agencies we've seen a lot of our faculty and our our knowledge workers leaving higher education for those other things so even though we may not be paying a lot more for the positions the cost has increased because of the turnover is very expensive all right thank you thank you senator. All right thank you the representative what you're recognized I like to make a motion madam chairman to accept the AHEC recommendations of the mergers and submitted. All right as a motion is to accept the a heck B. recommendation I which includes all the institutions that are on this report and their budgets is there a second second all those in favor say aye. A. And a and oppose. Sorry I didn't. What will get you the information it is just flat all those opposed all right scene nine motion passes thank you thank you so much. all right we're going to admit push on folks since it's only ten twenty five and go to at the identity department of inspector general believe those folks are all here so. We do have an audit finding. Like audit is here so we'll have like audit come up and I want to say thank you to all the institutions that membership that came thank you so much. For being here this morning. What the room clear out. Next time you should all wear your colors so you can like see exactly where you're from and a mascot head would be appropriate. Bring your mascots. Like college game day. The head of the mascot on. Per a banner. Just hold a second we'll let everybody clear out the. You Sir thank you. Okay if folks can move out please and we're going to continue and if you'll state your name for the record then you're recognized as you're leaving if you cannot close those doors and be quiet for us we'd like to continue with our business thank you so much for being here your I feel state your name for the record you're recognized thank you madam chair I'm Tammy shawl with legislative audit closer. That better yeah. One finding was issued regarding deficiencies in the agency's cash receding procedures for the two year period ended June thirty twenty twenty the deficiencies include the following. For the Arkansas fair housing commission thirty five checks totaling just under fifteen thousand dollars we're held twenty one to forty two days on average prior to deposit two of these checks were held for over one year before being deposited a check Clark was not maintained for the last three months of fiscal year twenty twenty. For the office of internal audit one check totaling almost thirty three hundred dollars was held twenty two days before being deposited. A check log was not maintained as so LA was unable to confirm if four checks totaling just under twenty six thousand dollars for deposited timely. And for the office of Medicaid inspector general ninety checks representing Medicaid reimbursements from providers and totaling approximately fifteen thousand dollars for not transferred to the Department of Human Services timely receipt to transfer average ten days madam chair this concludes my presentation of the findings for the agency okay members are there any questions regarding the audit. Right C. nine thank you so much okay and we will go ahead and bring at. The office of inspector general feel come up to the table of. M. S. walls. If you'll just announcer your names for the record and then M. as follows you may proceed. Hello I'm Elizabeth Smith the secretary for the department inspector general. My name's Tony dealer on the CFO for the department. Yes thank you madam chair my name's level also worked for the bureau of legislative research and we are going to be looking at item D. in your packet recess department of inspector general administration and shared services they are not in this manual they are in this handout. He'll pull out Mike up a little bit thank you thank you. All right we made this packet so it was easier for you to see the changes that the department is requesting in their appropriations there says she did it with the office of the Medicaid inspector general or make the department is requesting these five appropriations be moved to the Department wide business area but we can't show that in a single appropriation summary page so the back pages that were associated with may be removed up to face the corresponding appropriation summary page for the next biennium changing the order these pages will allow you to see the part and historical information alongside the request for the next biennium. And if you'll turn to page one in your pocket very top page the Department and the inspector general was created by ACT nine ten of twenty nineteen and combined under a single umbrella the office of the Medicaid inspector general the Arkansas fair housing commission and the state's internal audit section ACT five eighty six of twenty twenty one established the independent tax appeals commission within the department of the inspector general to resolve disputes between the department of finance and administration and taxpayers if you'll turn to page two pages to you and to eight will walk through their current authorized appropriation on page two which is the top page this is the information associated with the Department wide business area the appropriation that are associated with makes move are zeroed out in the first three column zero zero all the way across and they have requests for twenty four and twenty five historical information for these appropriations is located on the bottom page on page two a for those five appropriations the top that are zeroed out and the rest of the appropriations they're associated with this move will be set up in the same manner the request for the next two years is going to be at the top and historical information is going to appear on the bottom page. And in total the department has authorized appropriations of thirteen point two million dollars with sixty six authorized positions and they're funded primarily from federal revenues general revenues state central services they have eleven appropriations total one of those was discontinued during the last session and is not requested for inclusion in their upcoming bill that it is shown in the historical information for the department of the remaining ten the agency's requesting changes to appropriation levels in seven of them and the continuation of current authorized levels in three and a full turn to page three four and four eight we'll talk about the Medicaid integrity cash appropriation. And this is the cash appropriation is associated with the opposite Medicaid inspector general which is their goal is to ensure that Medicaid payments for services are consistent billed appropriately and correctly and that applicables collections are pursued they also perform on site provider reviews to ensure compliance with Medicaid policy and the next three appropriations are for makes operations the one that's listed on for a is the historical information for their cash appropriation M. and it is approximately two hundred two thousand dollars and is funded by an inter agency transfer from the Department of Human Services division of medical services if you look at the top on page four the department is requesting that treats the transfer of the entire appropriation from its previous business area to the Department wide business area with the continuation of current authorized line items in the new business area and the executive recommendation provides for the agency's request. The next one we're gonna talk about is on pages five six and six eight and this is the general revenue appropriation it's associated with make and it's currently authorized if you look on page six a at the bottom it's currently authorized as approximately nine hundred twenty five thousand dollars and it's funded with general revenues through the miscellaneous agencies aren't on page six which is at the top the department is requesting this transfer and in the track entire preparation from its previous business area to the Department why business area with the following changes they're asking for increases of approximately one hundred and forty four thousand dollars in fiscal year twenty four and one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in fiscal year twenty five personality and personal services matching adjustments made in the interim and personnel changes including re classifications the executive recommendation provides for these requests with the exception of the additional appropriation from the re classifications in the personal changes. Now he'll turn with me to pages seven eight and eight eight we're going to talk about the federal appropriation for makes appropriate for of its operations at on page eight eight eight on the bottom you'll see there Semmering they're currently authorized approximately five one point five million dollars and this is funded through federal funds and on page eight which is on the top the department is requesting the transfer of this entire appropriation from its previous business area to the Department wide business area with the following changes asking for increases of about fifty nine thousand dollars in FY twenty four and fifty I'm sorry sixty nine thousand dollars in FY twenty five for celery in personal services matching adjustments that were made during the interim and personnel changes including reclassification executive provides for these requests with the exception of the additional appropriation from the reclassification in the personnel changes. F. you'll turn with me to pages nine ten and ten eighty we'll talk about the appropriation for the enterprise fraud program. Hey this one is the appropriation for state funds associated with the enterprise fraud program and their current total authorized appropriation which is listed on page ten is for approximately nine hundred thousand dollars I'm there on page ten a is an approximately nine hundred thousand dollars in on page ten at the department is requesting the entire program transfer the entire appropriation to the Department wide business area with continuation of the current authorized levels in the new business area an executive recommendation provides for the agency's request. And then he on pages eleven twelve and twelve eight is the federal appropriation for the enterprise fraud program which is currently authorized at three point six million dollars and then on page twelve you'll see that they are requesting that this one this entire trip appropriation be transferred as well from its old business area to the Department wide business area and the requesting continuation of the current authorized level of appropriation and the executive recommendation provides for the agency's request this is the final request that's associated with makes it will only have one page as opposed to to going forward. The next one is on pages thirteen and fourteen and this is for the operations for the Arkansas fair housing commission which receives investigates and resolves complaints alleging violations of the Arkansas fair housing act which to prevent and eliminate discriminatory housing practices and is working to establish a statewide education and outreach program on these issues and it's appropriation provides for its operations if you look on page fourteen they're currently authorized approximately one point one million dollars and they are funded with general revenues through the miscellaneous agencies find and with Federal reimbursement from HUD's fair housing assistance program and fair housing initiatives program and the department is requesting the following changes M. two. At that they're asking for an increase of a hundred and forty four thousand dollars in FY twenty four and hundred fifty three thousand dollars and FY twenty five personalities and personal services matching adjustments made in the interim and personnel changes including work classifications and they're requesting a decrease in operating expenses in both fiscal years the executive recommendation for this appropriation only provides for the changes for salary and matching requests with the exception of the additional appropriation associated with re classifications in all of the other line items they're requesting the recommending the continuation at their current levels of appropriation including the operating expenses line item. The next one is going to be on pages fifteen and sixteen and this is for the Arkansas fair housing education trust appropriation which provides for statewide education and outreach efforts in for the annual for housing can conference that the commission hosts at their current authorized appropriation if you look on page sixteen is one hundred and seventy thousand dollars this is funded with federal revenues and cash funds generated by continuing education and training fees contributions and administrative and civil penalties the department is requesting approximately a hundred thirty seven thousand dollars in both fiscal years with a decrease of about thirty three thousand dollars in operating expenses to better align with actual expenditures in the executive recommendation provides for the agency's requests there. The next appropriation we're gonna talk about is on pages seventeen and eighteen and this is for the independent tax appeals commission this one's new M. the independent tax appeals commission was established to provide a neutral body to resolve controversies between taxpayers and the department of finance and administration and this appropriation provides for its operations and they're currently approx at authorized Boxley two point five million dollars and that's listed on page eighteen and they're requesting about two point three million dollars in both fiscal years I with the following changes they're requesting as increases in personal services matching only about sixteen thousand in FY twenty four and twenty three thousand in FY twenty five for personal services matching adjustments that were made in the interim and the requesting a decrease of capital outlay of three hundred thousand dollars in both fiscal years that will take their capital outlay down to zero and the executive recommendation provides for the agency's request. The next appropriation is on pages nineteen and twenty and this is for the internal audit section and in this provides for the operations of internal audit and they're currently authorized at the appropriation of about eight hundred eighty eight thousand dollars and they're funded through state Central Services funds the department is requesting increases to approximately one point two million dollars in both fiscal years with the following changes they're requesting increases in regular salaries and personal services matching of about two hundred sixty eight thousand dollars and FY twenty four and two hundred seventy five thousand dollars in FY twenty five for regular salaries and personal services matching judgments that were made in the interim they're also these these changes are also associated with the continuation of two pole positions that they received any ensuring that are associated with the annual project review and efficiency study at the Arkansas department of transportation and that was S. responsibility was given to them per acts two ninety eight of two thousand nineteen and also requesting it reclassification of one position and they're also asking for an increase in operating expenses of about forty nine thousand dollars in FY twenty four and fifty four thousand dollars in FY twenty five for increases in responsibilities and positions that are related to those audits that they're doing for the department of transportation the executive recommendation provides for the agency's request with the exception of the reclusive vacation. And our final appropriation is on pages twenty one and twenty two and this is the appropriation for the shared services for the department they're currently authorized about one point three million dollars and they're funded with transfers from the other sections of the department. And they are requesting increases to approximately one point five million dollars in both fiscal years with the following changes they're asking for increases at a hundred and seventy two thousand dollars in FY twenty four and hundred eighty two thousand dollars in FY twenty five personality and personal services matching adjustments that were made in the interim and personnel changes including reclassification and an increase of a little over eight thousand dollars in operating expenses and the executive recommendation provides for these requests with the exception of the additional proprioceptive or their personal services for their personal changes from the reclassification and this section please my presentation for this department thank you. Right thank you representative Cavenaugh you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair my question's going to be on pages ten ten eight twelve and twelve way which is gonna be the fraud tool. So. This was from what I understand this is an from an act from two thousand and fourteen. I don't see where this is funded has this ever been funded. It has not. Why do we need an appropriation for something that has not been funded since two thousand and fourteen there have been a number of changes over the years When it was initially when it was initially passed and requested two thousand fourteen that I make was just being created the M. M. I. S. system for DHS changed and was read. Freeborn and rebuild and so we initially did a request for proposals we initially were attempting to purchase the tool and we had to pull that down based on the specifications related to the new system then we've now moved into managed care and so the specifications and am requirements for the system had changed we are anticipating that we would like to go forward with this system but we just have not. Okay we haven't gone forward with this since two thousand and fourteen and there is no funds for it where do you expect to find the funds for thank you that is part of the that is part of the concern okay thank you okay. Madam chair I'd like to have this flag for session okay this budget flag for session and I have other questions that I'll get back in the queue okay representative makes. Thank you however her far right my questions on page fourteen and got a couple questions that's all right This is the fair housing commission referred questions if I'm reading this right there's currently one employee there and with regular salaries and matching. We're paying that person or we paid that person a hundred fifty thousand dollars. Is that correct is my reading it right regular salaries a hundred twenty one thousand was spent on this one person Hammer personnel matching another twenty eight five hundred fifty thousand dollars a yes or you're reading that correctly so can you justify paying one person hundred fifty thousand dollars for this position. Or is that justified. I mean that's twice as much as the governor makes so. But what for the justification that I believe that's up to this body and to the governors well I know that is a very specified requirements for the position okay it's also frankly is pretty complicated position to arrive by that I mean because of the federal mandates and requirements that are okay in place and I've got to work with fair housing over the past few years and I didn't know what I didn't know and service person that's coming in is an expert in this here quite of expertise in is in it And truly is a rare skill okay so any may be justified I'm just just being discouraged yes Sir so that in my my next question kind of follows on to that the agency's requesting up to twelve positions which is where most of the increase is coming from you currently only have one so are we anticipating hiring an additional ten or eleven people for that department so there's two separate funds centers I think it's the right terminology and one is for the executive director announced that position you are asking okay Miller was speaking to but yes there are other positions that are filled and we do have open positions we're working to fill for investigators France specialist. So you will need to pretend twelve. Miss madam chair if I could try to help in that during the regular during the last fiscal session we made some changes to the M. appropriations that some of these positions were located in okay and we had investigations division the one that we took out that was requested for the next biennium many of the positions that were associated for fair housing were actually in that appropriation and they have moved okay this one okay so they're not asking for new positions that they didn't have their just shifting them over from a different place okay right now makes sense that would that that was on page twenty three with those positions or okay and then the the final question that I have is I notice you had request a reallocation of a lot of positions and the executive did not approve those re allocations so I'm going to give you the floor here can you make your best sales pitch as to why the legislature should approve those re allocations when the governor's office did not. So I'll speak I'll start with the office of internal audit. Request for request a vacation for classifications are yes thank you and. At at let me just. Go ahead and answer the call. Please okay thank you so for the office of internal audit there was a request for request certification currently we have a position called agency controller and that person acts as an internal auditor and does perform the managing auditing for the agency and so we are simply asking for that name to be changed I think that there was just across the board request and not allow the reclassification okay so in particular that was one I think there was one in the Medicaid inspector general's office where we have a nurse supervisor listed but we want to re classify that or or rename that discovery classification as nurse analyst because the nurse does perform Anil analysis rather than bedside nursing and so we have within the office within the department we have functional job descriptions to allow for the the work that they do but we were looking to re classify those of the other re classifications Yes the research project analyst is AGS six position and we're having an incredibly difficult time feeling that position and we need someone with data experience to utilize to participate in reviewing and analyzing the Medicaid data that we review so we are asking for a higher classification there it is a higher into a GS nine that we're asking for and so we understand that. I guess deferred so it looks like representative will may have some input there but thank you thank you I'm sure. Okay okay Representative wouldn't it to add anything to that yes the personnel committee representative makes his son in. In our last meeting last Tuesday or Tuesday or Wednesday that we would hold all salary adjustment three classifications of everything until a new administration comes in office and that was an agreement with the executive branch the so so she with the they would have input thank you thank you all right senator Johnson you're recognized. The enterprise fraud program is it three and a half million dollars in federal money that's already there. It's my understanding that the way it would work is we would make the request for the federal funding that we would all likely it would likely. Be allowed it's just it's not sitting in an account waiting for us to draw it that's. Right thank you. Senator Chesterfield you're recognized thank you ma'am sure I think representative who has explained it exceptionally well from our meeting but I as agency heads you serve at the pleasure of the governor. And so I appreciate the delicacy with which you treated that questions about how the agency recommends but the executive Rick account trump's that doesn't not. So if. If we start putting agency against the person that is responsible then people lose jobs is that correct. Thank you. You get a answer. With that I move to accept this this report okay I do have to let me I just have two quick questions and go back to representative Cavenaugh and then represent with and then we were done thank you senator Chesterfield representative Cavenaugh thank you madam chair I'm going to be talking about the education trust in this the fund balance in your education trust it's got a fund balance worth sixteen point three six. Years. What are we gonna do with that fund balance. And I'm happy to bring the executive director for the for housing commission up to answer more in depth But what I can what I can say is that the education trust fund is. Is designed to be maintained over a period of time it is different than the typical way that we hold state funds because it is because it's this federal grant to have and the agreement for the fair housing. Program. So if I think I would like to join us to there's a stipulation our requirement to hold a certain amount of money as part of the federal appropriation that's correct and we we keep it year to year and it grows and is utilized and then we. If you'll just announce your name for the record and you're recognized good morning my name is is it a form and I'm the director of the Arkansas fan housing commission and he was represented. Warning so yes the education trust fund and holds the committee prime is civil penalties that are assessed for the complaints as well as fees that are assessed and we put on training we have to keep those find separated by from the state finds that are given to us as well as the federal funds that are given to in state and keep from coming going the fans and we are allowed to build that many apps over the years use it to play had on our annual fair housing conference says and in the years what we don't close enough cases on the federal side were able to use the money in the education trust fine to operate from that way we won't have to come to this body to ask for additional state funds okay do you know when the last time you had to draw from that for operation funds we're currently operating this current fiscal year fram M. R. education trust fund okay one quick follow up with madam chair this is going to be on your investigation division you're not asking for that appropriations so it's going to zero but you still do have a little money in excess funding what happens to that excess funding where does it go. What into transferring them money into it to the share of ministration Services or some other fun as is appropriate most likely to be just as the forty five. Thank you right thank you and representive weight loss questions you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman to a illustrious calling from the Senate we just did that is a courtesy we weren't in the fire anybody we just a that is a courtesy to the new administration I have a quick question on personnel the of the You show up and this is on fair housing you show twelve positions you show authorized eleven and then we'll report I I've got that is shows. Which BLR personnel available for me the show fair housing eleven but no no no one's work. And yet you've got a seller for a hundred twenty one thousand. I am yes Sir I can assure you there are plenty of people working well on the you know you we don't shall we pay that person that so I am asking you to yes our sign fascinators are being paid from our federal fans and I don't think that is actually reflected here. Shows a hundred twenty one thousand will Page works that's actually says the executive director salary that's my salary is being paid out of state funds the rest of the staff is being paid out of the lands yes Sir okay yes Sir will let alone will more follow up. But may I have eighteen vacancies well this is thirty vacancies It in and it shows three of them. It shows three a little over two years old but this law was written in twenty nineteen you know Phil Housley and then on the last three years so how many how many vacancies over two years jail at camp I'm sorry if I may ask a little clarification are you asking specifically with are you asking for the entire department or specifically well unless the entire department okay because this doesn't jive with what the numbers are here right so and I don't know exactly what you're looking at that we do you have because we had four different now for that at that you know three different agencies brought into one department the fair housing commission had existed prior to transformation prior to nineteen internal audit existed prior to transformation and so we had counted up those numbers and then that our vacancy report I think we have eight positions you have funds that were you're showing that this report came from the personnel staff the bill are you showed a total of fifty two employees correct eighteen the vacancies. And then two of those were over two years ago. So yes would you will hear this law what I'm saying this law was written in twenty nineteen. In past. In this in twenty two that's three years so should there be more in over two years ago. So as. Hi my report we have five vacancies over to okay we'll let me I'll get with you really get through so that I can make to get the correct. One way or another thank you thank you ma'am all right thank you so much our. Motion. All right executive rex again all those in favor say aye opposed ayes have it motion carries thank you so much for being here and without members we are adjourned you're free for the rest of the day.