ALC-Game & Fish/State Police
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0:00
Thank you.
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Thank you.
Doug Thank
Unverified
3:00
Good morning, everybody. if everybody will take their seats we'll uh go ahead and get started
all right thank y'all all for being here uh appreciate everybody coming out in the weather um i have no comments but let's just go ahead and get started sir thank
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
3:47
you madam chair it's good to see everyone here today and like chair said thanks for being here. I guess our first item of business today is going to be the discussion with the state police involvement with federal immigration laws. So Colonel Hager, would you and your
staff please come to the table and you'll be recognized and discuss this. Colonel, if you would, if you and, excuse me, the members of your staff would identify yourself for the committee and then we'll proceed. Good morning,
Mike Hager
Unverified
4:31
Mr. Chair, Madam Chair, members. I'm Colonel Mike Hager, Secretary of Department of Public Safety and Director of State Police.
Speaker 16
4:41
Jason Aaron, Lieutenant Colonel with the Arkansas State Police over field operations.
Speaker 17
4:45
Mike Kennedy, Lieutenant Colonel, State Police, Director of Administrative Operations. Thank all of
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
4:50
you for being here, and by the way, it's good to see each one of you again, and thanks for your service. And we have you on the agenda here, Colonel, to speak in regards to the federal immigration laws, and I guess how it's affecting the Arkansas State Police and how you are moving forward in regards to that. So with that said, you've got the floor.
Senator Fredrick J. Love
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5:17
So there's several aspects of this, and out of respect for the committee's time, I'm not really sure specifically what you
Mike Hager
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5:25
guys would like to know about. So with respect to your time,
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
5:31
I'm just opening it up for questions. Well, I'll go ahead. I think, you know, as we see things unfold across the nation, I think, you know, what I'm interested in is seeing how y'all are interacting with our federal partnerships, What is the role of state police with that, plus your local sheriff, local police, and I think what those look like
and what the federal government is asking of us to do, and just very succinctly, what are those roles and how that is being communicated and where is that happening, perhaps, if you can speak to that. I think that's, for me, I just want to make sure that we have full cooperation and that we have the ability to execute what the
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
6:19
president is trying to do. Right. So just kind of 30,000-foot overview, we have a standing MOU with every federal agency, not just DHS or ICE.
Basically, a lot of federal and state laws run parallel with one another, So it's just a cooperation that's been in place for decades with state, police, and our federal partners to where we will assist them, we'll enforce laws, we'll assist in operations with them as requested. It's specific to immigration enforcement. The administration asked local law enforcement, local, being state, or police, sheriff's departments to engage in 287G task force model in support of that.
The state police has agreed to do that. We started that process back late summer, early fall, in completing the training that is required to do that. As of today, we have all but 12 members of enforcement that have completed that training. Those 12 are people that are on FMLA, military deployments, things like that. So all of our rank and file do now have the 287G authority.
that we've completed the necessary training to do so, and we are now authorized in that capacity. Having said that, of course, immigration is a complex issue. We're not an immigration enforcement agency, so we are in an assisting role only on that. We've currently not had any planned operations, anything like that. It basically just gives us the authority that in the interact or the just daily operations,
if we come into contact with somebody on some other type of criminal offense, that they are in illegal status, that we can make proper notifications to ICE and let them do further
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
8:24
vetting for their process. Okay, could you describe 287G for those of us who
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
8:30
are not familiar with this? Yes, ma'am. So 287G has been around for years, and I couldn't even guess or speculate when that started. Originally, the 287G program was more tailored towards detention facilities.
We had a few sheriff's departments in the state. Of course, state police does not operate any detention facilities, so it was specific to them. This administration expanded that program to more of boots-on-the-ground law enforcement personnel. And so just in the simplest of terms, it just gives us the authority that once a reasonable suspicion or probable cause is established to believe that a person is of illegal status, it gives us the authority to detain them, transport them, and turn them over to ICE and for further vetting.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
9:22
Okay. So the state police has gone through this training all but 12. What about local law enforcement, local counties, local police departments? can they do they also then also enter or is this just a state federal relationship or can the 287g also um be training that our local yes ma'am i don't know the number off the
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
9:45
top of my head but there is a website that you can look at through dhs that you can see all the agencies that are
currently enrolled in the program and i know it's multiple i would say the majority of law enforcement agencies in arkansas have completed that training or enrolled in the program okay that's department of
Senator Missy Irvin
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10:04
homeland security yes ma'am okay just making sure that we had that on record okay um all right we have some questions and i appreciate the information because before we get started let me follow up
Representative Dwight Tosh
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10:18
on one thing the colonel said we state police is defined by law and you
touched on this and i think we just i just want to make sure it's highlighted and people understand the state police is an assisting agency by law yes sir so basically you're assisting any federal state uh federal city municipality that's that's the role of the state police to assist any other agency that needs the state police assistance and basically what you're doing by uh is you're fulfilling that mission that is defined by law is that would that be a fair statement yes sir
Chair
Unverified
10:55
completely accurate that's correct okay thank you
Senator Missy Irvin
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10:58
yeah okay senator love you're recognized for question
Senator Fredrick J. Love
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11:01
thank you madam chair um thank you colonel hager you all for being here let me let me start with this question because i hear i hear a lot of different things in regards to like the stops and so just as a a pretense of your protocol how do we determine the status if when you make a traffic stop or where you make a stop, how do you determine the status of somebody's immigration
status? Is there a protocol that outlines that? Yes, sir. We
currently do not have the ability to determine that status. So if we make contact with a violator on a traffic stop, the first thing we're going to do if they have no identification, we're going to run that person by name date of birth or any type of identifier that they give to us and we're looking to see if they have a driver's license first and foremost and if they have any active warrants or any kind
of court action against them so in this situation a lot of times if you know just generically if you encounter a 30 year old subject that has no identification in the system it's an indicator that that person may be here on a legal status. Your average adult, of course, in Arkansas is going to have some type of either identification card or driver's license issued. Okay, so if they
have a driver's license or whatever, then it's –
Okay, all right. Secondly, let me ask, how many – are you all – because I think I asked you this before. Are we keeping any records of how many, I guess, immigration-type stops that we are doing with the state police that, I guess, result in us turning somebody over to ICE or turning over to DHS?
Yes, sir. Just to clarify, of course, we're not making immigration stops. But if we encounter a violator as a violation of law and it's determined that that person may possibly be of illegal status, there's discretion to be used there.
And we've asked our officers to use that discretion. But to answer your first question about tracking that number, as of right now, we started keeping records in September, I believe, once we completed this training. or at least we had a large number that, you know, were close to completing this training. And since September, we have detained 46, 48, 48, I'm sorry. And those vary from, we looked over today to see there's not a lot of detailed information that we have on that,
but those encounters and detainments vary from, as a result of pursuits, criminal arrests, narcotics arrests, things like that. So, uh, it's, there's going to be some other type of violation law before we'll detain. Okay. All right. Thank you.
Chair
Unverified
13:57
Yes, sir. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Senator Missy Irvin
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14:01
Senator Rice, you're recognized. Thank you, Madam
Senator Terry Rice
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14:06
Chair. Good morning, Colonel Hager. I appreciate you being here and I try to say that with everybody responds to an invitation
because we've had at least one that didn't show up that was invited and takes taxpayer money but didn't come to another committee so i do appreciate you being here uh when i saw this on the agenda and i as you know i have great confidence in you and your organization but nothing is perfect so i always want to put things out there that could happen and and maybe have happen to keep in mind, and I know y'all do that anyway, but when I see the involvement
with federal immigration, and I support what ICE is doing in the need to get criminals out of this country, and that's mostly what they're doing. There are people that are here illegally, undocumented, that will get caught up in that. My concern is I keep looking for a way, and I'm not hearing it. I keep looking for a way that law enforcement can differentiate some.
I had a lady that's not in my district but married somebody I went to school with that was a U.S. born citizen. She was brought here at four years old and is now, that's 35 years ago. So she's 39, has teenagers who are U.S. citizens. And he told me this a number of months ago back when it was warm, said they were afraid to get out and go to a swimming hole or something
because this stuff had started in Arkansas, and I understand that. And I said, I don't have an answer for you. I hope at some point we get enough criminals out of here, they'll find a way that there's some common sense for long-term things. And, again, that's not the policy we're here today for, but that's something that you all may come encounter with, And I understand you've got processes you have to go. But my other concern is, and you're well familiar with it, is ATF and what I consider the assassination of Brian Malinkowski.
When not ATF, but Arkansas law enforcement who had contracted services with ATF while still taking state taxpayer money for their other job. felt obligated to do what atf under the biden administration wanted done is to show that our interpretation of gun laws is different than what y'all say is written so they kicked down a man's door in the dark at six o'clock in the morning
and he did what i'd do he he with people coming in in in black suits he fired a shot and they shot and killed him i don't want arkansas state police to be put in that kind of thing because you have an agreement with a federal agency ice or anybody else that y'all can't use good sense and say we're not going to go down that road
we could have picked this guy up at any stage of his day but instead we went in in the dark and kicked down his door, and killed
him right in front of his wife. I don't want that to happen ever again. And nobody's
Speaker 51
17:57
ever held responsible for it. And I appreciate you all not being involved
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
18:02
in that. What I'm looking for is, is there anything out of what you've stated so far and you haven't given us much of a statement,
is there anything outside of your daily work that y'all are doing currently in coordination with federal agencies, Homeland Security and IAS, as far as going out and just seeking anything more than people with criminal charges, or do you expect that
Mike Hager
Unverified
18:33
to happen? No, sir, and thank you for that question. We are not engaged
Senator Fredrick J. Love
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18:38
in any type of operation like that. To your point, we've made it very clear to our troopers, whether it's the 287G program and assisting with ICE,
or if it's assisting with any of our federal partners, at the end of the day, they work for us, and we will make a final determination on what we engage in in operations that we engage in or not. So specifically to the immigration enforcement issue, again, that's not our primary task, and it is a complex issue. And we understand that. So I've used the analogy that, um, 56 and a 55 is a violation of 27, 51, 201. So it's 86 and a 55, but there's a whole lot of difference in between those two.
And when you look at, uh, the immigration issue in Arkansas, um, we're blessed that we don't have large numbers of people coming to Arkansas, um, illegal immigrants for the purpose of criminal enterprise. Now that's not to suggest that we don't have some, um, this past Sunday, we had one that, is a member of tda that was engaged in activity back and forth between chicago and we received information about that our trooper set up and i was able to take him into custody that's an 86 and a 55 the immigrant that was brought here as a child as a toddler and has
been here for 20 25 years product of our school systems and you know has been a productive member society not had any interaction with law enforcement that's a 56 and a 55 and we've expressed the difference to our troopers we we've explained to them that we expect them to use good judgment and common sense discretion that they have under the law and you know we'll we trust that they're going to take that responsibility seriously as far as any type of operation specific to ICE since it is a sensitive issue and it is a complicated issue they do not have the authority
to engage in those operations without running that up the chain of command and I can tell you the three people sitting in this table will be directly involved with the go-ahead of whether or not that operation will or at least we will participate in
Speaker 55
20:51
that operation. I appreciate that and I hadn't
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
20:54
had confidence in that but I think it helps to let people know you're going to do your job but
Speaker 46
20:59
there there is that difference in 56 and 86 and i appreciate you you're looking at it that
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
21:07
way thank you yes sir thank you um for senator bryan i've got you next um quick question is there
any um is with the training that's involved with this for local because i'm trying to find where i could on their website i can't find it like a list of organizations and departments within
the state of arkansas i would love for if y'all have that which y'all could get that to us that would be really helpful just because um is there a cost to the training is there any incentive to do the training for like local because i know that training is an issue sometimes that it's costly for like our local law enforcement officers like county level or city level i didn't know if
there was like any cost to that or barriers
in place or i just wanted to
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
21:53
there's been no direct financial impacts for the training the way that the training was set up they had 60 hours I'm sorry 60 days to complete the training once they logged on and began the training okay so there was concern on the front end that we may have to put some troopers on overtime status to complete the training we did not have to do that we asked them to find that time throughout their day in between calls for service to complete the training.
So the only expense would be abstract in that they were, you know. Gotcha, okay. So there's not been an actual fiscal impact to the agency. Okay. As far as anything that we may receive from the federal government, as you guys know very well, that's part of the big, beautiful bill, I guess, that there was a funding mechanism to go back to law enforcement on a local level
to reimburse for any costs that we may incur. But that's complicated, and they're still working through that process. We've heard different things, and that's not a shot at DHS. It's just complicated. So we've been told that we may have funding available that will come to the state police and other local agencies to offset any expenses that we may incur in the process of assisting them, but we've not seen that yet. Okay, thank you. Yes, ma'am. Senator Bryant. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, gentlemen, for
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
23:18
being here. I think that was going to be my line of questioning was,
are we keeping track of those expenses if out of the 48 that have been apprehended throughout the state this year, as you deploy those into the county system to be held for ICE and then ICE comes and takes them to a local facility, are those counties able to keep track of their hours and time and have the resources to be able to seek reimbursement or are they choosing not to seek reimbursement? I guess I'm just curious with budget coming up what those numbers might look like. Right.
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
23:49
You know, again, it's not had an impact on our agency as far as operations are concerned.
As far as the county jails are concerned, honestly, I don't know the answer to that more than just generically. I know the federal government pays our county jails to house federal prisoners or federal detainees, and they are on this as well. But as far as that rate of reimbursement, I'm not sure. but I do know that the county jails keep that information separate to where they can basically bill
Mike Hager
Unverified
24:19
the federal government accordingly. Okay, and is state
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
24:22
police, as far as the training and the hours spent,
working federal issues, are you keeping track of those hours and line items? Yes, sir.
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
24:31
If it got to the point where that was, again, an approved operation that we are going to be involved in, we would absolutely track that. To this point, we know the hours that they've spent. Um, in training to complete this, uh, but again, that was absorbed throughout their daily, uh, enforcement day. So, um, that's not been tracked to the hour, but, uh, we certainly were in the, we, we
had a mechanism in place to track it if we had to put troopers on some type of overtime status to complete that training. But we were fortunate that we did
Representative Jack Ladyman
Unverified
25:11
not. All right. All right. Thank you. Thank you.
Representative Ladyman. Thank you, Madam chair. Thank you all for being here. Colonel, I don't want to cover ground we've already talked about, but you mentioned I think it's 287G, the training. That was back in 2002, 2003. There were some issues going on up in northwest Arkansas,
and I think that legislation was passed around that time. And Steve Womack was actually the mayor of Rogers, and I was the mayor of Elkins. And we talked about, as a region, certifying some of our officers so that they could detain illegal people who had entered the country illegally and turn them over to ICE. Now, ICE was always active and still is. A lot of people don't know this, but they're always active in areas.
But Steve actually trained a number of his officers, and I think we trained one of ours because we didn't want people who might be gang members. And if there's an indication that they might be, well, then you want to follow up on that. And I know that's what you guys do. But someone's been here 30 years and has no legal, nobody's going to bother them. But there were very few cities back then, and it was primarily cities and not county sheriffs that did this.
There was only a few. And I know you mentioned that there's a web page, but in your opinion, are there a lot? I mean, is there 30% of the cities or 50, or do you have any idea the magnitude of those officers that might be
Speaker 74
26:54
trained? I know the list is extensive of the agencies that are participating, but I'll be honest
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
26:59
with you, sir, I would be afraid to even guess at that as far as, like, the total number. But my colleagues may have a better idea than I do,
but I know it's a significant number, but as far as percentage of law enforcement agencies in Arkansas, I
Representative Jack Ladyman
Unverified
27:15
don't even really have a guess. Well, I know that's not – I mean, that's up to the local cities and counties that do that, and you all are just there to assist them. One other question. Do you know, I mean, is there any, ICE is always active, I know that, but are there any areas of the state where there's a focus? Like, you know, we had Memphis and some of the bigger cities, but do we have any cities or areas or regions where ICE is more active or focused on,
and are there any issues as far as pushback in those
Mike Hager
Unverified
27:49
areas? As far as I know, pushback, no, sir, not that I've heard of, or at
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
27:54
least very minimal. So the federal government does in a lot of ways what we do. They assign their resources in the places where it's more of an issue. In Arkansas, the resources that have been dedicated to Arkansas are very minimal because I don't think that we have the problem here that we do in a lot of population hubs around the country.
So while that number is growing, it's still very small at this time. I can tell you I had a conversation with the U.S. attorney yesterday in the Eastern District to kind of pick his brain on this topic before I testified today. And right now, it's basically taking the bandwidth of the resources assigned here to simply go from county to county and pick up illegal immigrants
that are in contact with law enforcement for criminal matters. So they are stretched pretty thin in just doing that. So, for instance, I think we have the capacity to transport much less than 100. I've heard a couple of different numbers, but I've heard 24 and I've heard 48. I'm not sure which, and that number may grow. But I can tell you, after talking to the U.S. Attorney yesterday, we had both been told the statistic that about 90% of the people that are detained right now
are detained as a result of DWI violations and domestic violence. So as those people are arrested and taken to jail and determined to be on illegal status, ICE is contacted and their officers are spending the majority of their time literally just going from county to county to pick up those people that have been detained, bring them to Little Rock for holding until they can be transported to a detention facility outside of Arkansas. So the overwhelming majority of the enforcement efforts are in that capacity right now.
It's very minimal as far as the number of resources that have been dedicated here, any type
Representative Jack Ladyman
Unverified
30:05
of enforcement operations well i know uh up in northeast around jonesboro we get a lot of people out of memphis and memphis was a focus point and as everybody knows crime is high there and i'm not aware of any issues up there that i've heard about so it sounds like it's pretty much business as usual for ice in arkansas is that pretty is that correct that's been
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
30:29
that's been our experience yes sir thank you representative ladyman uh you brought
up a good point we and we will try to get them before this committee maybe during the next meeting that's celeste commission on law enforcement standards and training they are tasked with a responsibility here in the state of arkansas to keep up with all the training for every officer keep that in a file and be and so they they should be able to answer those questions if that's something you'd like for us to move forward with i think that was really a good point you brought up so we'll try to do that
before our next committee meeting hopefully in february maybe that'll help thank you representative richardson thank you
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
31:14
madam chair over here to your left good morning uh so i had to step out for a second so i don't know if you covered this or not but i'd be interested in knowing you guys Since you have now began the ability to check to see if somebody is illegal or not, are you tracking how diverse the people are and what you're pulling over
or identifying as illegals, like from brown, black, white, a breakdown of that? Are you guys doing
that? Is it possible to do
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
31:48
that? Specifically, I don't know that we are tracking that. But, again, just to clarify, we're not making traffic stops on the pretense of any suspicion based on someone's appearance. The people that we've come into contact with and have been detained have been stopped for some type of violation of law
or they've been contacted by investigators for some type of violation of law. We do not have the ability, and I think that's something that is a misperception by the public, that we can pull someone over and somehow run identifiers and find out what their legal status is, their immigration status. We don't have that ability. So all we can do is when we detain someone, we simply transport them. If we are not able to identify them and it is believed that they have no identification
because they are of illegal status, then it's simply a notification made to ICE for further vetting. They have the ability to do that. They can use fingerprint scanners, facial ID, things like that, to where if that person has been contacted by immigration either on the border or at some other location, they can put that
Mike Hager
Unverified
33:02
person through their system, and they can identify if that person or what their status is. But we do not have that ability. So when somebody breaks
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
33:10
the law, you pull them over for speeding or whatever.
Yes, sir. And they're unable to identify if they don't have any license on them or anything. Yes, sir. Those are people that you're contacting or sending to ICE because they can't prove if they're here or not. My question is, is it everybody that does that? I'm sorry. Any individual that you pull over, if I'm speeding down the street and I don't have my ID, are you turning me over to ICE?
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
33:41
No, sir. So it's not necessarily that we're turning them over to ICE.
if that person is detained for some type of criminal violation, and that violation very well could be that just the fact that it's an adult that is not in the system, they're detained, and then the detention facility can notify ICE to further vet that person and see if they can identify who they are or confirm who they are. But we are not making any type of like. I got you. I got you. You answered. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. Thank you. And lastly, Senator Hammer.
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
34:16
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just for clarification, the ones that you've picked up so far, would you classify those as violent offenders or how would you categorize the ones that you've picked up so far?
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
34:31
So I've not gone through and looked. The information is kind of vague. We just see the reason for the contact, that's either a traffic violation or a call for service you know of course in rural areas we have
troopers that answer calls for service like domestic violence issues and things like that i know from just a quick glance of looking over i would say it's a mix of being contacted for a traffic violation everything from that to a person that was arrested for fleeing domestic violence, DWI, you know, other criminal infractions that led to that person being detained, not the fact that they were just merely suspected of being on illegal status. Okay. Which, which you have
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
35:18
directive from, from ice or from the federal authorities as to the reason why you're picking them up. It's not like you're just grabbing them or doing anything without any authority and, and the range of who it is that you may be picking up may be something we might consider minor or to something major it's it's it's not anyone it's kind of across the board yes sir it's across the board senator let me give
Speaker 17
35:42
you a real quick example we had over 600 arkansas state troopers and we've picked up 48 since september so it's not very often it's happening one of those 48 was
one of my stops so let me give you a quick example firsthand i can tell you firsthand and stopped a vehicle at Geyer Springs Road for not having any vehicle license on it. The driver had had two DWIs in two years and not done a thing to take care of either one of those DWIs as far as pay his fines, get his interlocked devices. I called ICE, and they beat the record of him and got him out of our country for he winds
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
36:14
up killing somebody on one of our streets. Yeah, and I don't have any problem with that. That's what I wanted to get to the conclusion of, that the folks that you're picking up, some might be minor,
but yet some are going to be the kind of folks you don't want living next
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
36:32
door living in your neighborhood for driving them down your roads exactly all
right thank you sir i think to
me that's the most helpful being able to give an example and that and that's what you know i'm concerned with i know that everybody that i represent is concerned with is that we don't
want violent criminals um on our streets no matter what their status is i mean it doesn't matter if they're a citizen or not a citizen we want them and I for one you know if they're not a citizen
then I do believe they should be deported back to their country and let their country deal with that and deal with you know in paying for all of the adjudication that is involved with that because we have enough already on our hands to deal with just with our own citizens so you know I think that's really helpful information, and I just appreciate it. And that's why, you know, for me, I want and I hope that there are, A, no barriers financially or by time that any local law enforcement agency has in order to participate fully and wholeheartedly with the federal government
and with what the President of the United States is putting forward in his agenda because I agree we've got to address this head on. And that may not be a lot, but for me, one person is a lot, you know, knowing what we've known and what the impact could be, just like you stated, that they could kill somebody, you know. The next DUI could end up in a fatality, in a multiple fatality, and even their own fatality. So, you know, we should be acting as aggressively as we possibly can to make sure everybody's trained, everybody's participating, everybody's on the same page to execute the president's agenda.
So that's why I wanted this on the agenda today, because I think it's important that we discuss it, highlight it, are very clear about the information that's out there. Because clearly, you know, things that are being misconstrued on a national media level, and we just need to make sure that that's not happening here in the state of Arkansas. And so that's the intention and the reason why we have this on the agenda. Really appreciate the information you gave and your testimony and the questions from the members of the committee. Thank you.
We'll move on to the next. We have no more questions, so thank you, gentlemen, for being here. Thank you all for being here. And with that, we'll move on to the next item of the agenda. We have Mr. Schoenrock, who is the Director of Arkansas Game and Fish Commission.
Doug Thank
Unverified
39:09
He's got three items on the agenda, and I think these are issues as he's coming forward that are important to have status. The role of this committee, let me just state this, the role of this committee is to provide oversight,
but it's also critical that we are an educational committee and making sure that we're fully utilizing the talents and the expertise that we have at the state level and how they operate in the state. And for me, Game and
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
39:39
Fish, there's so much room, and I'm so appreciative of the director's role in this in reaching out to other states, number one, and finding out what's happening with other states, how it's affecting our
Doug Thank
Unverified
39:54
state, and then the recognition that hunting is a huge impact to our tourism economy
And being able to really take full advantage of that is really important. And I think some of these issues, you know, can directly impact our tourism and our visitation as we are kind of a hunting destination for the country and being able to compete on that level. We want to be the national championship of hunting destinations in the country. And so a lot that's happening in other states could impact that. So with that, I just want to turn it over to you, and if you'll state your name for the record, you're recognized to proceed.
Doug Schoenrock
Unverified
40:33
Thank you. Yes, ma'am. My name is Doug Schoenrock.
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
40:40
I'm the director of Arkansas Game and Fish Commission. All right. Go
Speaker 105
40:45
ahead. We'll first start with the status of the water pumps at the WMAs. Sure. We currently
Chair
Unverified
40:51
manage a bunch of water on different WMAs, of course. We have 108 different, what we call moist soil units. 63 of those are flooded that require rainfall.
45 of them are flooded by artificial means, which indicates pumps. At this point in time, 90 to 100% of every one of those is, I'm sorry, those are all 108 or 90 to 100% flooded at this point in time in the year. We also manage 43 green tree reservoirs Green tree reservoirs are flooded timber historic Arkansas pristine areas to hunt 39 of the of the green tree reservoirs that we have open to hunting on our wildlife management areas
require rainfall or river flow four have pumps and Those remain in status right now zero to a hundred percent flooded some are not Some are just depending on what mechanism we're able to flood The the information about all that all of those GTRs and all of those units multiple acres thousands of acres are on our website and Our operating schedule is clearly posted there when we started flooding them when we closed
Gature boards and what the status of their current flood status is So if you go to the website, go to hunting, go to waterfowl, and you can see the operational plans for both our moist soil units and our green tree reservoirs. So that's the status of how we operate. Currently, we only have one pump that's not functional. That one pump is a brand-new moist soil unit that's never been flooded before, never been waterfowl hunted before.
And the reason we don't have that pump under status right now is because it's a gas operated apparatus and we simply do not have the gas permit and gas connection to that pump on this new area you may be referring to a pump that was reflected in social media back in the fall about a vandalism at ed gordon point removed that pump was vandalized in july of 2027 along with several farmers pumps in that same geography those pumps all had parts
returned in november from the manufacturer those pumps are not mechanical those pumps are driven by rheostats rheostatic drive means that we can it's like driving a four-wheeler without gears you can turn it up or turn it down but it doesn't have gears that operate it the parts to replace those pumps are are not readily available in stock the pump at ed gordon point removed that was vandalized all the metal componentry and some of the electronic componentry was stolen those those pumps began running on december the 8th and have run non-stop ever since then
likewise the private land pumps that are adjacent to
Speaker 107
43:56
ed gordon point removed that we're vandalized still
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
44:02
haven't started running yet and and remind me hurricane lake
Doug Thank
Unverified
44:07
is that one of the areas that you just manage yes ma'am and
Speaker 105
44:12
it's been flooded or hurricane lake is dependent upon the white river okay the water
Chair
Unverified
44:18
control structure that we finished early in 2025 dependent it depends on white
river flow the water control structure we replaced in there was not at the correct elevation and consequently that area was a lake for a long time never has been intended to be a lake it's a green tree reservoir um the flow on i think it's glaze creek that runs through that area right now is not out of bank consequently that area is not flooded and that's due to the white river flow that feeds the creek i
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
44:50
got you and then uh probably a
good time we've got a question but
also the dam it looks like there's good progress on lake conway conway yes ma'am there's a
Doug Schoenrock
Unverified
44:59
public meeting coming up next week okay on the 27th where is that uh
Chair
Unverified
45:07
it is at mayflower high school okay and um that dam is under construction the lake work for all intents and purpose is complete now we're replacing the water control structure on that dam to be able to better control high water and as well as to mitigate water if we need to drain water for for repairs but that construction is well underway yeah okay
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
45:28
good that's a great update because I know we had some I just saw that that was in the news so next it's the 27th at Mayflower High School is a comment meeting okay perfect okay we're gonna go ahead and go questions on this topic And then we'll move to the next representative lady, man. You're recognized for
Representative Jack Ladyman
Unverified
45:46
question. Thank you, madam chair. I'm all sir Director Shinrock. Thanks for being here. And this is a
little bit different question, maybe off the subject you're talking about, but Lake Friarsen up in Craighead County, that's a fish and game lake. Well, don't know whether you're familiar with it or not, but
You were talking about pumps and maintenance and that sort of thing Your predecessor, about two or three years ago, might have been three years ago, we had a drought up there. And we discussed draining the lake down a little bit to release some water in the creek there. And he told me that there's a level mechanism on the dam at that lake.
There's an upper valve and a lower valve. and what I was told was that they couldn't open that valve because it had not been maintained and they were afraid they couldn't close it and it would totally drain the lake. Is there any kind of maintenance been done on that, or do you have maintenance schedules on something like
Speaker 105
46:55
that? We have maintenance schedules on all of
Speaker 117
46:57
those. Sir, I'm not that familiar with that particular apparatus, but I can get back to you with
Representative Jack Ladyman
Unverified
47:03
that information. Well, this was a very important issue for the farmers around there.
They could use the water. The lake had plenty of water, but they weren't able to open that valve, they told me, because of maintenance. I'll have to look into that, sir, and get back
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
47:19
to you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Senator Hammer, you're
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
47:23
recognized for questions. Thank you, Madam Chair. Do you care if I ask a question about Lake Conway? You brought
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
47:28
it up. No, it's not on that subject. Is that okay? I don't care. I think it's just good
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
47:33
information. Yes, ma'am. You've got the right person at the table. Okay. Thank you. In driving by Lake Conway, the property owners that have the docks around the lake,
what is the process for knowing them of when they need to have their docks redone by so that they have ample warning and then you and we don't start getting calls about what we didn't know and
Speaker 111
47:53
they missed that window of opportunity?
Chair
Unverified
47:56
Sure. For the past six months, we've contacted those individuals by certified mail. Okay. I think the deadline was extended, I think, 12-31
Speaker 104
48:05
to 12-31. And crews are, at this point in time, working on removing the docks that are in disrepair.
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
48:11
Okay, thank you. And second thing, you may not know anything about this, more curiosity. I went yesterday along I-40. Do you know what the smoke was created from yesterday, and did that have anything to do with the lake project? No, sir, it
Speaker 111
48:24
did not. There were some wildfires in the state, which, with the rainfall of today, we hope they're gone. All right,
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
48:30
thank you. Thank you. Okay, next topic. If you want to go ahead and we'll discuss the duck season and the discussion of Flyway Federation's impact. Sure. Thank you, ma'am.
Chair
Unverified
48:42
It has been an interesting duck season. And I'm honored to be working in a state where we have, I think, the most passionate waterfowlers in the nation. And to your comment earlier, ma'am, we are the number one duck destination in the nation, and we will remain that. Unfortunately, this year, Arkansas is basically 90% of the state is in either extreme or moderate drought. We're running from 9 to 12 inches of rainfall in deficit.
I couldn't sit here back in April and May and tell you the same thing. We had a lot of rain in April and May. We had the third driest November and December since 1893. We are in the top 10 driest years in the state since 1893. So these droughts have a significant impact on surface water. Surface water, obviously, based on comments earlier made about GTRs and most soil units,
have a huge implication on our ability to flood. We may not have water available in a ditch to pump, or our pump levels are at such where we can't reach the water level. We do not pump from groundwater. That messes with agriculture, and that messes with municipalities. So we try to use surface water where we can or lift water. One point of evidence is that Arkansas rice farmers this year are probably going to be eligible for the highest ever USDA per acre aid payment because of rice crop failure.
So we do surveys. Our first savvary was done 1215 to 1231, where we do transect flights with biologists over the state. So on 1231, we were high-fiving. We had twice as many ducks in the state as we did in 2024, same period, on half as much water. So the ducks were concentrated, and in many cases, on private lands. And if it had not been for private lands, I don't think we would have enough water
to attract as many ducks and hold as many ducks, twice as many as we did the prior year. We had 1.4 million ducks in Arkansas on 1231. Of those, 498,000 were mallards. This was more than 344,000 more mallards on 1231 than we had on 1231 of 2024. So it was a 300-plus percent increase in mallards from 24 to 25. So fast forward, now we do January transect flights, so January 1 through January 13.
It's called the mid-winter survey, and now we're starting the late-winter survey. Actually started flying this week. We're not flying today. We had 334,000 miles in the state from January 1 through January 13. Remember, we had 498,000 from December 15 to December 31. We had 544,000 ducks in the state, 545,000 if you round up. That's a million ducks gone, basically, in a 15-day period.
All of us remember what happened in the first 15 days of January. I think Christmas, just before we could have gone out and played golf on Christmas Day. And we had some pretty warm weather and no rainfall. So our already dismal drought conditions increased. Warming weather enabled waterfowl to move further north, just south of where they can tolerate the cold. And let's remember a duck's biology. A duck flies south because they want food, they want shelter, and they want to renew energy
so that they can have enough energy, duck energy, to fly back north in the springtime and breed, raise their kids, and do it all again the next year. Well, so we wouldn't go to Florida if it wasn't warm in the spring, right? Ducks don't come to Arkansas because they just like coming to Arkansas. Granted, we have set a phenomenal table with our GTRs, our Moisil units, our W. Ricefields, and a lot of private landowners. We set a great buffet up for ducks every year.
But they'll leave us if they can go further north and reduce the energy requirements that they need to fly way into northern Canada or the boreal forest to breed and do it all again next year. So they're opportunistic. Right now, despite the fact that we're only at 545,000 ducks in the state and 334,000 of those are mallards, Our typical mallard-to-total duck ratio in the state of Arkansas is about 63%.
About 63% of the ducks we have that come here every fall are mallards. We are currently standing at 61% in the last 15 days. So we're holding our own on mallards. Our buffet is still good, and the ducks that are hanging out are good. And some folks have really had good duck seasons. Some folks have had pretty dismal duck seasons, and a lot of that has to do with water. Regarding the Flyway Federation, if you don't mind, ma'am, I'll continue on that.
The Flyway Federation is a fairly vocal Louisiana-based waterfowl hunting organization, and they frequently voice concerns. And the Flyway Federation engaged Senator Kennedy from Louisiana to write a letter. And I have comments on that, and I'll reserve those unless I need to go there. But duck migration, as I mentioned earlier, are really based on three factors. Photo period is one of them, daylight. Number two is weather, and number three is food.
And the bulk of mallards, which is really what this is about in the state of Louisiana, it's about mallards and it's about corn. So it's about mallards in Louisiana, it's about corn in the mid-latitudes of our flyweight. The bulk of mallards are only going to fly as far as they need to. I have relatives in Michigan who have 400 mallards sitting right now on a lake on ice. they can tolerate some cold weather and as long as there's no snow cover there they'll go out and dry field feed and they'll go back and they'll sit on ice or they'll find an open river to get
water or get invertebrates which is what they feed on a duck is pretty hardy if you look at other ducks that feed on corn widgeon teal shovelers gadwall louisiana is killing a lot more of those than they ever have in the past those ducks eat the same corn that the mallards are eating in illinois and missouri right now they're just not as cold tolerant they're flying to louisiana and for that reason louisiana still remains the number two duck harvest nation
state in the nation number one is california on average duck per day number two is is louisiana number three is arkansas at 18.8 ducks per season not ducks per day and um but we still remain the number of total duck harvest in the state with well over 1.1 million ducks harvested in the state so migration movement obviously is controlled by a lot of different factors and we're kind of we're
not in the mid latitudes we're kind of pinched between the southern latitude and the mid latitude arkansons typically benefit from waterfowl migration especially mallards and what really attracts those mallards are our green tree reservoirs which several years ago this agency launched a great effort in trying to restore gtrs and what you just mentioned hurricane a few minutes ago is a perfect example of a successful gtr renovation and red oak regen red oak regen will
create mallard habitat for generations to come and I hate to say it that none of us sitting in this room will be here for that fruitful time but it will come and it ensures waterfowl for future generations on Arkansas's GTRs. Harvest statistics that you may read about don't necessarily support the comment of plummeting duck populations over the last 25 years our mallard harvest
averages about 390 to 400,000 ducks a year for the past five seasons that is 2.3 times the next highest mallard harvest of any other state in the country arkansas's total duck harvest has averaged 1.1 million in the past seasons we still remain number one followed by California Louisiana and I mentioned that we harvest about 18.8 ducks per year per hunter so the rhetoric being introduced by the Flyway
Federation which is a relatively small organization I think they're feeling the impact of a 6.6 million mallard migration and not a 10 million mallard migration that happened back in you know 10 15 years ago they're also fitting the impact of warmer weather uh which in the case of uh mallards getting to louisiana is definitely hurting um that's pretty much what i have to say about duck hunting in arkansas are we in the good old days we are not we have seen the good old days but we're close to where they have been
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
58:30
so okay thank you for that what is what was
Speaker 104
58:37
their ask their ask is for senator kennedy to introduce legislation or research
Chair
Unverified
58:42
to make illegal hunting of standing corn in the mid-latitudes of the flyway they're basing that information on a revision to the 1998 migratory bird treaty act there was a revision to that act they're claiming that since that point in time hunter duck mallards are being held in the mid-latitudes due to standing corn ma'am that act
revision had nothing to do with standing corn standing corn has been legal forever for waterfowl hunting that act had to do with restricting illegal baiting on properties to mitigate the ability of joining properties to legally hunt it because of proximity had nothing to do with standing corn okay thank all right thank
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
59:28
you senator hickey you recognize thank you sir i'm over here yes
Senator Jimmy Hickey, Jr
Unverified
59:32
sir first of all let me say that I've always
been a great advocate of y'all's big
advocate I understand you've got a terrible job almost you've got to maintain relationships with constituents in the public while saying while at the same time doing enforcement and we all know how that can be but I also know this that myself and your agency are are here to kind of represent the constituents of this state of course or that's the way i see it i assume you do too now i'll be with any luck i'll be 60 this year and i've been thinking about this for the last
week you know things were a little different when i was younger so we were probably running down in the south arkansas in the red river bottoms with single shots and boat actions when i was somewhere around nine without supervision right or wrong that's the way we did it we all grew up that way sir yes sir so what i have right now though and i definitely believe that weather is an impact there's no no doubt however you know this trend's been going on we can sit here for the next decade and say the weather the weather the weather and the constituents that i'm talking
to and i also believe this myself is they they think that something additional needs to be done and I hear what you say about Arkansas being the number one state for ducks, and that's great. I want to stay there, and I actually want to greatly exceed that. So, you know, from my standpoint, though, it's fairly obvious. Again, like I say, going to be 60, and, you know, out in those Red River bottoms, which we all know is a major flyaway, you know, over the last 10, 12 years, those holes that I've known,
i've seen less and less and less regardless of the weather and uh it's i know we've got this statistics that we do and this honor system with the hip and however all that works and you know hopefully people are doing that correctly i don't know that everybody is but you know that's just kind of the nature of that beast to try to get a at least to get some type of uh sampling i understand. So again, my constituents want to see something different. And I just heard what you
said about the hunting over the, you know, the corn. It seems like to me, you know, that this federation in Louisiana that I don't see any, I don't see how that can help Arkansas, can help Arkansas strategically any way, shape, or fashion. If you've got people, and I'm not asking you all to do anything here, what I'd like to see you do is try to get some type of national coalition to try to look at some things that possibly would help strategically
from a national level, not only for the state of Arkansas, but for every state. and I just do not see how allowing hunting over unharvested corn up north helps us and I know that's the big deal going around right now but I just you know happen to agree with that could you weigh in on that just a little bit that you think that that would help Arkansas who we represent how that how that helps us with you know our hunting and the future of hunting and you know
Speaker 105
1:03:00
from now on so the hunting over hunting over any kind of food augments the opportunity
Chair
Unverified
1:03:13
for success one of the biggest risks to the Flyway Federation communication is it creates a divide among the waterfowling community and it opens a significant opportunity for folks who don't believe in hunting to enter in and divide a very tight-knit and relatively small organization of
waterfowls. I agree with you that we should have dialogue with other states and I do. I will tell you that friends in Louisiana often complain about green tree reservoirs in Arkansas and if we weren't holding all the mallards in Arkansas they'd have more than 10,000 mallards in Louisiana. I talked to the Illinois director about if gosh if you didn't have all the corn we'd have 800,000 mallards in Louisiana. I think I think the biggest thing that impacts duck populations nationwide and especially
in our flyway is policy related. It's not policy that was crafted in this room. It's a policy on the federal level that that deals with um um water policy and wetland policy and habitat policy in the breeding grounds habitat in the breeding grounds is absolutely essential for us to have ducks over our decoys that is one component and probably the most component but sir i do agree with you that we want to listen we have the same customer excuse me in the constituents i want
every duck hunter that goes afield to have success and we are working with other states as well as with our staff to figure out what's the best energy to put on the landscape is it rice is it moist soil is it green tree reservoirs is it national wildlife refuges if flooded corn takes hold through this waterfowl flyway federation what's next is it we can't plant moist soil we can't flood green timber national refuges can't have food sources provide duck energy days so that they can wing
their way back north and breed again so it starts with habitat in the north but then it also ends with habitat here
Speaker 104
1:05:28
and setting the right table here and our agency does the
Senator Jimmy Hickey, Jr
Unverified
1:05:31
best to set the right table sir sure and i appreciate your comments if i may continue
whoever's chair madam chair i appreciate that, but that, and I had listed a list of things here. Some of them be controversial that I thought that again, I don't understand why we can't do some type of coalition or compact with these people
that you're talking about to try to come up with stuff. I agree 100% with the pothole region, but you know, what's so odd to me is we sit here and talk about this and there's not water there, but there's really nobody that, and I hate to get government involved in a lot of this stuff because i understand it could go go sideways in a hurry but there's nobody there to say okay this year this year there wasn't as much rain up there we understand that there's not going to be as many breeding pairs and we expect that that can tactically move and maybe lower that pop the
hunting you know women by one duck or two or whatever it might would take and again i'm at age that I remember the point system and how tough that was and you know you shot shot one hen and you were done you were done so you know I understand that we've we've come a long way and you know I think we've done it the correct way I think you all have done it the correct way with like well you can still you know just the overall limit so that you do it so that if somebody was to shoot a hen that it's not automatically over for their hunt right at that second but
But so the thing is, is I don't see any way that we're navigating that with any type of compact with the other states. And correct me if I'm wrong, you know, about about that, you know, down in my area also and don't live there now. But one of my last one neighborhoods that I used to live in, I literally take a rock and hit Texas. And what's always been kind of odd to me is we don't have some type of standardized system. Like over there, you shoot five mallards and in Arkansas, you shoot four.
don't care it's just always seemed odd to me that we don't have some type of standardized limits you know uh for for that and maybe there's an explanation to that i don't know but it's just things like that that it seems like to me that yeah we can talk to each other in the state but still we organize or do some type of compact that we're never never going to do anything
Chair
Unverified
1:08:00
season the season length and the bag limit and the species allowed
within that bag are set by the u.s fish and wildlife service texas does not have a five mallard limit um our our limit is the same uh at at i think four mallards two can be ends the only state that differs from that is california and they're on the pacific flyway and their breeding population surveys from a totally different place in Canada. And so we don't have the leeway to say you can kill one, you can kill ten, or whatever.
We are set with framework. We have the leeway to reduce what the federal framework says. We can say you can only kill three mallards. We can say you can only hunt 45 days. Right now, we're mandated based on mallard count. The threshold is 4.5 million mallards in the flyway that would take us to a more restrictive season. We're 6.6. The folks that I talk to at various NGOs don't see us getting to 4.5 in a long time, if ever.
We have never been there. Well, I take it back. We were at that point when we had 100-point rules, sir, where we had to identify what we shot before we shot it. So we do work closely with other states, though, when it comes to rules, regulations that we can implement as a state. Federal migratory waterfowl are federal migratory waterfowl. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife and the federal government gives us the opportunity to harvest them and hunt them.
We don't regulate them like we do deer or turkeys or bear within our state. And so we
Speaker 104
1:09:53
are somewhat handicapped by federal framework on
Senator Jimmy Hickey, Jr
Unverified
1:09:55
that, sir. Sure, I understand. But again, it just looks like to me that they would be, I keep saying, compact coalition, that they would be included along with the states and something like that so that everybody could sit down and have some discussion about some of this stuff and some of the stuff that they see or some suggestion from some of these constituents that, you know, may be taken into account. Yes, sir. So, yeah, I understand perfectly what you're saying about the corn.
You know, you've got to like, well, where would it stop? You'd have to use some common sense like that. And I'd argue this all day long. It's kind of like me. You put a, you know, a plate of almonds in front of me or some chocolate pie, old fat boy here is going to go to that. And I think everybody here knows that ducks are most attracted, in my opinion, to corn yes sir so it i think it's one of those things that i understand and agree with what you say and you you know you've got to have some common sense and you're always going to have
those people that are going to try to spend something different but that's what i would like to see thank you is that somehow that you all get with the other states uh the feds whoever it is to form this to try to to try to take all this stuff into account instead of us just sitting here waiting for another decade talking about weather and this and that you know without any type of a valid plan that starts at canada and comes all the way down yes sir and again i do appreciate you all don't take anything that i'm saying against you all i understand your job is
just from what i'm hearing the vast majority and you can you can find people that don't my constituents and people of arkansas they want to see something different okay thank you
Chair
Unverified
1:11:31
thank you sir to answer your question just finally i am on a panel with other states and i've spoken directly with with uh director brian nesbitt with u.s fish and wildlife service about this very thing you're talking about
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:11:45
thank you i and i i think just to follow up i share the exact same concerns and
you know at some point i clearly understand senator kennedy i mean he's doing what he needs to be doing for his state but you know at what some at what point and I think we just would lean on your advice do we need to engage with our federal delegation if it got to that point just so that we can make sure you know we're we're we're defending the um our state yes ma'am our interest um and I think
that's going to be important to me and to all of us when it comes
Chair
Unverified
1:12:21
to these important issues so far no one in DC has signed on to Sandy Kenner's letter
Speaker 104
1:12:30
okay and we will be visiting the contention from here with our federal partners in DC from Arkansas
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:12:34
in March okay good well let us know how we can engage with that I think
it I think you have a lot of interest much the legislature
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:12:43
senator Bryant Thank You madam madam chair I was just curious what kind of in the line of questions with the state police before and their interaction with our federal partners what role is the game of fish commission play with the u.s
wildlife in dealing with activities on private clubs and and what their regulations since this is a regulatory migratory bird what is the commission's role in dealing with federal i will attempt to answer that but i also
Speaker 144
1:13:07
have my colonel sitting behind me i may turn around and have joe come up here too
Chair
Unverified
1:13:13
but so joe when i try to answer this i'll turn around and if i did good give me a thumbs up otherwise come on up but um yes sir we there are federal uh u.s fish and wildlife officers
um not as many as there used to be a lot of them are regulated to doing other law enforcement work um uh that deals with some of the topics that were discussed earlier in the meeting with ice we pretty much regulate right now without the support of us fish and wildlife here on the ground because of their limited resources we we have the
same laws okay when we when we meet with them the the federal harvest rules the federal laws are the same for us fish and wildlife as they are for Arkansas game and fish so we we assert those rules um in the past there have been there's been a higher prevalence of u.s fish and wildlife officers here not so much this year joe i got a thumbs up is
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:14:27
that okay with y'all so whenever i guess whenever the u.s um fish and wildlife come do an investigation and they believe they have probable cause to enter onto a private Arkansas residence property. Do you partner with them? Yes, sir. And do you do your own investigation, or do you just follow their lead typically? No, sir, we
Speaker 105
1:14:47
follow our own. We do an investigation with them. Okay, all
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:14:55
right, thank you. Thank you. Okay, I appreciate that discussion.
i mean i think you know the other concern and it's just the nature of the water issues that we have i'm always looking also to make sure that when you come
to hunt in the state of arkansas you can do it without having to pay to go to a private club right to hunt so we have to make sure that there's a balance there and i know that's a huge challenge for y'all um nothing against private clubs but not everybody can pay understand you know a thousand two thousand dollars a night
to go on a hunt so um pretty expensive
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:15:37
but it is the nature of it there's nothing wrong with it i just want to make sure we can somebody can shoot ducks for a lot less
than that um senator bryant did you have another question okay hold on yeah thank
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:15:52
you thank you madam chair i just i just just want to unpack a little bit of what that process looks like as far as I think there's some potential legislation last few cycles about how the
warrant process works and how entering private property works yes sir can you explain a little bit how that process would work in the cooperation
Speaker 111
1:16:13
with federal yes the SOP with our enforcement division is to articulate a reasonable cause for entering private
Chair
Unverified
1:16:21
property prior to ending that we don't have officers just roam around on private ground without permission trying to look for violators we have to
Speaker 114
1:16:30
articulate and an articulable cause before any private property do you use the courts
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:16:39
to get that or once you have it you you
just use your own jurisdiction use our own jurisdiction sir okay
Chair
Unverified
1:16:48
so there's no no judiciary involved in the initial breach of private property unlike other states for example Tennessee has to have court ordered from a judge to enter private
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
1:16:56
property we don't have that okay and is it is a federal system if the feds were going to come and you disagree could the feds still enter with their regulations on private property yes sir
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:17:08
yes sir okay all right thank you thank you okay and then this is the last the last item on the agenda is just an
update on this boating accident that occurred and just an overview of
how y'all manage that situation yes ma'am thank you
Speaker 140
1:17:23
very tragically obviously on December 19 a 33 old individual was tragically killed
Chair
Unverified
1:17:29
while boating coming out from duck hunting at Bajamito which is a WMA there were two occupants in the boat the boat struck a tree and ejected the passenger in the front of the boat
from the vessel. The the operator of the of the vessel struck that tree and was mortally wounded. The occupant in the boat was able to regain and re-enter the boat and navigate the boat to the nearest ramp where CPR was performed on the individual and the individuals mid-flighted and obviously succumbed from his from his wounds. The boat was a 15-foot long edge boat, typical waterfowling boat with a 25 horsepower motor on it completely legal for Arkansas in the accident
report that I've read does indicate from from the damage to the vessel and damage to the to the tree that the boat probably was running at an excessive speed and possible recklessness we're not sure but high rate of speed for those conditions in a flooded timber area with any fatality toxicology reports are mandatory we do not have toxicology results yet on this and this but it's not suspected that there would be an
adverse toxicology event there this is very serious we are working with an NGO to help memorialize this individual there and hopefully this widow's intent is to convey a message of safety and we hope to we hope to do that in honor of this individual very tragic yeah I just I read
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:19:23
about her desire to do that and I thought that was just really
just just such a great thing for her to
say you know for us to be able to promote that so I just look forward to kind of however we can partner with her yes ma'am um you know understand she's working with you and others but how we
Doug Thank
Unverified
1:19:45
could partner with her on that i think it's really important because you know as much as you may hate it or like it or whatever i mean there's so much on social media and tiktok in particular of these you know just wild and crazy boat races down
this flooded timber in Arkansas at Biomeda and other places that it's become, you know, it can become an incredibly dangerous situation really, really fast. It is a very dangerous situation. And so how do we, you know, make sure that when you come that there's some parameters and some safety measures around that I think is just really tricky because, you know, the more that's played out on social media, the more people will come and want to participate in it for you know or watch it or whatever it just creates this unbelievable spectacle and so
that that's concerning to me you know knowing that um it sounds like
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:20:41
this is kind of a one-off situation but anyway i appreciate that are there any questions um representative uh-huh go ahead thank you madam
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
1:20:51
chair director thank you for being here today and i just want to thank you And from the meeting we had in November, you know, we had kind of an uncomfortable meeting. We addressed a lot of concerns that were occurring there in northeast Arkansas out at, I believe, St. Francis Sunken Lands.
And I'll say this, I'm not sure all the concerns were met, but I do know that I stopped receiving phone calls. So whatever y'all did, I applaud you for it because apparently it corrected the situation. And thank you for this informative information today. And I've got one request. I would like to meet the person that counted the ducks here in Arkansas on those dates. 1.5 million and so many mallards. I mean, you need to bring them with you here before committee.
Speaker 105
1:21:42
We'd like to meet them. So that's one of the most dangerous jobs in managing wildlife is getting in a Piper Cub flying at low altitude, hanging out a window and counting ducks. yeah we all want to meet them
Doug Thank
Unverified
1:21:59
and we're glad to have some commissioners here with us commissioner Caldwell is here and we appreciate you being here senator Filippo do you have a question for senator for commissioner Caldwell thank you madam chair
Senator Scott Flippo
Unverified
1:22:13
yeah commissioner if you just want to ask you kind of about some of the
concerns I'm hearing from some of my family and avid duck hunters about the potential impact that windmills and solar panels might be having on the migratory patterns of the waterfowl population. So if you'd just speak to any kind of ideas that the commission has on that or a game plan. I'm here to help you, Chris. Whatever you need, buddy.
Speaker 173
1:22:49
Thank you, sir. If you'll just state your name for the record. Chris Caldwell. You're recognized. Thank you, Senator. Well, as was discussed in several hearings last session, there is continuous study going on. And at the moment, I think I received a lot of personal calls on the regular about this as both go up throughout the state, but particularly in the flyway. And I am no scientist, but it is definitely of concern, particularly with the potential to, you know, alter the migration or to, you know, I think the president actually tweeted this morning about his favorite line about killing the birds.
And so, you know, I speak for myself, as we're always greatly concerned with anything that might alter the flyway, as Senator Hickey alluded to earlier, and anything that might affect not just, obviously, our job is to conserve the species for future Arkansans, but also might have a detrimental impact to the Arkansans and those that you mentioned, Senator Irvin, that come to our state to experience this.
So we'll stand by to what this body decides to do in any future regulation to
Speaker 174
1:24:12
curtail any ill effects. Has there been any discussions amongst the commissioners
Senator Scott Flippo
Unverified
1:24:18
to look at maybe a potential program to partner with private landowners
in keeping their land in its natural form, if you will? we do have
Speaker 173
1:24:33
a program called the conservation incentive program w rice program that exists
uh uh to you know provide habitat for ducks and to provide um uh opportunities for public to go to private land uh in this particular guise of uh like an incentive program do you mean to do that um i know we don't have that restoration if
Senator Scott Flippo
Unverified
1:24:59
if you're doing it for, you know, for deer populations or other
Speaker 173
1:25:03
wildlife, there's a program. We currently have a program in existence called the CIP Conservation Incentive Program
and DMAP program for deer, turkey, quail. We have various programs that, for technical assistance, also for particularly like hog eradication and everything for actual equipment as funds are available. Okay. Okay. And just on a personal note and not speaking on you know about
Senator Scott Flippo
Unverified
1:25:30
your other commissioners Do you personally have any concerns about you know windmills and solar panels in the migratory patterns are a negative effect on that? Yes
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:25:42
Okay, thank you, sir Thank you. I Very
Doug Thank
Unverified
1:25:48
good questions actually because I have the same concern, but and I don't know if there's a way to explore the ability for the way to explore the ability for us to incentivize uh landowners not to install windmills and solar panels you know in prime hunting areas in the state and the flyway so i don't know if there's the ability to do that or if we could even afford to offset you know what that would even look like but we haven't even gone we haven't
Chair
Unverified
1:26:17
even gone there yet ma'am yeah but there is research that has been commissioned to look at yeah you fly away and waterfowl movement um and their avoidance behaviors when when it comes to wind is that federal or is that that is done by the university of arkansas monticello
Speaker 114
1:26:32
the new snowman dowd center for waterfowl excellence that's right okay
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
1:26:34
and do we have a timeline of when that's going to be no ma'am this study will probably take two years at least
all right cool thank you good information any other questions from members of the committee all right seeing
none thank you so much for being here appreciate it and we'll see you soon thank you so much we're adjourned
Unknown speaker
1:27:18
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Agenda
A. Call to Order
B. Comments by Co-Chairs
C. Discussion of State Police Involvement with Federal Immigration Laws
D. Status of Water Pumps at WMA’s
E. Update Regarding Duck Season and Discussion of Flyway Federation’s Impact on Modern Waterfowl Hunting
F. Update on Recent Boating Accident at Bayou Meto and Overview of Boating Laws in Arkansas
G. Other Business
H. Adjournment
Documents
| Title | Type | Pages | Source |
|---|---|---|---|
| Agenda — ALC - GAME & FISH/STATE POLICE, Jan 21, 2026 | Agenda | 1 | Official source ↗ |
Speakers
Doug Thank
Unverified
Representative Dwight Tosh
Unverified
Mike Hager
Unverified
Speaker 16
Speaker 17
Senator Fredrick J. Love
Unverified
Senator Missy Irvin
Unverified
Chair
Unverified
Senator Terry Rice
Unverified
Speaker 51
Speaker 55
Speaker 46
Senator Joshua Bryant
Unverified
Representative Jack Ladyman
Unverified
Speaker 74
Representative R. Scott Richardson
Unverified
Senator Kim Hammer
Unverified
Doug Schoenrock
Unverified
Speaker 105
Speaker 107
Speaker 117
Speaker 111
Speaker 104
Senator Jimmy Hickey, Jr
Unverified
Speaker 140
Speaker 144
Speaker 156
Speaker 114
Speaker 6
Senator Scott Flippo
Unverified
Speaker 173
Speaker 174