State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs-Senate

Give it credit for come and then Senate state agencies will come to order. Yes the first order of business the Senator Tucker do you want to to this is what we talked about a possible rule changes one day. Go ahead Senator. Was there a copy that everybody a copy yeah okay they did yes okay so this is a a rule change that we passed in judiciary that I think it's for the better. What happens is every time of bills filed it's automatically assigned to committee as it should be and then according to the committee rules is automatically placed on the active agenda. The problem there is that a bill sponsor may not be intending on running the bill at that particular meeting an inmate may be several weeks before the the bill sponsor runs the bill and so you end up with an agenda that doesn't accurately reflect what's actually going to be run at that meeting and it's it's it's as I. Discussed in Judiciary it's hard on members especially in a committee like like Judiciary like state agencies that are gonna end up with a lot of bills you might end up with an agenda that has twenty five or thirty bills on it only six or seven of them are going to be run in as a member of the committee I really only want to prepare for the bills that are actually gonna be run that day and S. as much as a matter to the members I think it matters to the public even more because. They may need to drive to three hours to their state capital to be prepared to testify on a bill name that may have no idea what day the bill is actually going to be run so we propose a rule on Judiciary and it's rule number four on here that was passed out in I'm basically proposing that the same rule be adopted here and what it says is one of bills assigned to state agencies it's placed on an active agenda and very little has to happen from the bill sponsor in order for the bill be placed on an active agenda all I have to do and I'm not trying to create any hurdles for anybody to run their bills just trying to get clarity on agendas all I have to do is notify senator Johnson the committee chair or the committee staff the day before the committee meeting say Hey I want this bill placed on the active agenda it'll be on the agenda and that way the agenda for the meeting accurately reflects the bills they're going to be run that day and that way the members the public everybody is better informed and and about what's going to be run and and better prepared to discuss those pieces of legislation that's that's the proposal. Read me questions Senator flowers. We'll. I don't know if it's a question or not but. I think I brought this up at an earlier meeting. And. A I thought it was the consent is that. We would know a couple of days there was some discussion about when the calendar and online available to the public and to legislators. Could see what was going to happen or what would be on the agenda for this committee and I thought I understood them to say a couple of days. A not like staff and they know who you this chair if you remember that discussion at all right and right now we set the agenda because it goes directly into the active status whenever it comes in the community so we set that agenda two days ahead of time this would drop that bill comes in here in the inactive status and they can change it to the active status the day before. I'm just wondering if that's enough time for the public if people want to come down here and testify for or against the bill or comment on the bill is that enough time. In. It's good that is consistent with our twenty real pretty you know twenty four hour notice on on bills so is that what I understood staff to say that it would if the agenda is. All right lease posted. Just one day or two days. I can hear you. The agendas are currently posted two days in advance so for today's meeting it was posted on Friday is Howard County this. And that's what I'm saying and that's what I understood them to say that that we discussed this before so while we shorten it to one day if if. My thinking I would prefer to date these. Senator Tucker. I think it's a valid point out right I really want my main goal is to make sure that the agenda is clear as to what's going to be run if we need more lead time I I'm I think that's totally fine the other thing we discussed this and Judiciary to when we get deeper into the session there's more bills we can change that we can also change this anytime we want so maybe the thing to do now is to say that you have to notify the the chair staff now the day before the meeting but at the close of business two days before the two business days before the meeting and then if we want to change the day before the meeting later in the session or we want to do away with it entirely you know at the end of session we can we can just cross that bridge when come to. Yes go ahead senator flowers. So when we say at the close of business of the staff I would think would be going home I mean I wouldn't think you'd be waiting around for to get. Something called the business closed the business is closing the doors and I would think that we would give them enough time to. To be able to post two days before so. I just. Think that's problematic. By noon. No by noon on I don't know when they post the same. Well on that two days before is it in the morning of that. Two days prior or is it at noon are right after lunch what. Go ahead. They're normally posted at four o'clock two days prior so by four o'clock. And that's a little bit before close of business so I would suggest at least three o'clock. Senator Payton. Thank you Mr and I guess my comments would your somebody mention the Judiciary Committee I spent a lot of years on the health committee where the agenda is got very long and the workload got very heavy and when many times when when we and I'm sure this is still the practice today because I looked at their agenda last night but many times when when we would have a controversial bill we would schedule it to a date certain and have a special order of business for that bill but that's all at the at the will of the committee of many other times when we would find ourselves at the end of a meeting that didn't go as long as we thought it would it would have an opportunity to clear the agenda of three or four five items that were not controversial. And so we would have no ability to do that type of thing if we had a rule that had to be publicized you know twenty four forty eight hours ahead of time many times you've got to three bills on the agenda that are not controversial the even takes ten to fifteen minutes at the end of the meeting and clear some of those off your agenda I just don't see why the committee would want to tie its hands in this regard. Richard. General questions. I just would say I think we could pull it if there's five or six votes on the committee to pull non controversial bill of the active agenda we can do that anytime we want I mean at the end the day the committee's going to control what what the agenda is this is just the for example senator mark Johnson. Did not run his bill that's on the agenda today and other people who want to testify on I know there's more analysis I want to do about it and I I don't want to do that every Tuesday and Thursday in perpetuity until he decides run and he isn't a perfectly entitled to work on the build however long he wants to amended or or whatever that's not a criticism of him I highly bills on agendas for long times myself but it's just to clarify that and and it I think you raise a valid point about clearness agendas out but if it's really non controversial bill I think the committee could pull it off the an active agenda and put it on the active agenda and clear it out anytime we want to. Senator Dotson. Thank you Mr chair so. Just just so I'm clear this might be a little different in the Senate and that was in the House anybody can request put a bill on deferred at any time they don't have to wait for the three meetings or anything like that so I mean this. Just for the normal flow of stuff I know I personally was kind of frustrated with the judiciary rule that I was expecting a bill to be on there I would said okay I'm here's here's the bill is supposed to run and I had expert testimony flying in from out of state and the bill didn't show up on the agenda and so then I would question why isn't on the agenda you have to request it Mike well I thought that was what I did when I filed the bill and talk to committee staff and everything and come to find out no I had to specifically requested of the chair of the and and so was delayed to where I could even run it for several more days and had to rearrange flight schedules and stuff like that so I mean I know some of it's just probably me being new and not knowing how things go on there but to have that extra step receiving. What could be a very non controversial bill to even be automatically on the calendar unless you're not ready to run it maybe staffer or the chair can check with members of we have bills that in look like they might be going to run ask the sponsor if they can put it on deferred but I think we can if you're not planning to run it I have one that I requested it yesterday to Be put on deferred myself I'm not ready to run again I'm not sure I know the reason for the need for this but it's been a source of frustration are ready for me this session in the judiciary and so I'm not really supportive of of adding that frustration of this committee. Senator Tucker don't look like the numbers are on your side it just. So I will say this and it will. There's one two three the better not. You ahead Senator Payton I think we've we've talked about this before but just to refresh my memory. Number five here I mean a bill does automatically going deferred if it's not presented after two meetings correct yeah three third three meetings okay comment we could change that to do we want to bombing it does have a means of going getting on preferred so that you don't have to prepare show up to testify into perpetuity. Thank you. Fortner at the just as a reminder the will move one. What if I what if I take Senator Payton's suggestion instead we amend the item number five to say it's only placed on the active agenda one additional time in that way it's a total of two times on the agenda. So there's a motion all right. You're in the discussion. No discussion this special go ahead. we have some concerns that the judiciary that the emails were sent out particularly the House members or people that said Hey you're on the agenda next time they were sent out because they work on the agenda so gotcha so I think I would still like to send an email out to say Hey you have a bill but it is all right deferred or whatever until you give us notice I just want some sort of communication particularly to the House members and that did because no one knows we made this rule stiletto Hey it's bids submitted our committee you need to have an action to get on okay. This sounds good you want to restate your motion. Go ahead Senator question just on that so. This this motion is not to adopt the rule number four but just to change Our current rule number five in its agencies from to date so it still will automatically go on the calendar whether it's Senate bill or house bill coming over. For the next meeting and the following meeting it'll be the third meeting that won't show up on their you go to the first correct that's correct and I to Senator Hester point I'm I'm happy to modify to where it's the number five says once the bills placed on the deferred agenda staff sends an email notice to the bill sponsor saying your bills now on the deferred agenda please notify staff. When you want the bill be placed back on the active agenda. Go ahead senator flowers. So. I a lot so what we should change in this. The. We're. The sponsor it is a sponsor of a bill or senator does not intend to. Needing to present the bill. Bill will be placed on the active agenda two additional times so now you changed it to one one okay. Thank you and then notice notice will be given whenever it goes to the deferred shall. Any other discussion. So you were restate your motion. I move that item number on number five be amended to say after bills appeared on the Committee agenda and the sponsor the bill or senator does not attend the meeting to present the bill the bill will place be placed on the agenda one additional time. And then at the end of this section it will say once the bills placed on the deferred agenda committee staff will notify the bill sponsor by email. That their bill is on the deferred agenda. Unless they notify committee staffer the committee chair for to be placed back on the active agenda. What's the will of the committee. Motion by Senator Tucker second by Senator Dotson all in favor say aye. All opposed Like sign. All right we will adopted rule number five for change so we will move on to House Bill. Eleven sixty three. This to introduce yourselves and you're welcome to present. Senator Gary Stubblefield thank you Mr chairman thank you committee for hearing this bill of the purpose of eleven sixty three really deliver samples to move some obsolete language of Arkansas Code twenty two six one two with that with the last time by the legislatures and. Nineteen forty seven. So significant portions of the existing codes dealt with obsolete requirements an obsolete procedures currently the Commissioner of State land managers errors related to the sale of lands in different computer based format payments are made directly to the county commission state lands near the state auditor are the state treasurer are involved in these activities eleven sixty three strikes a language which conflicts with the processes that are in place today there's no emergency clause. You have anything resembling. No go ahead introduce yourself. I'm Kelly deputy commissioner of state lands. Any questions from members go ahead Senator paying. Thank you this is more of a curiosity question anything at the bottom of page two you have a list of ways and it's not limited to that list of remitting funds I'm curious as to what cash US legal tender is not listed. Are moving away from accepting cash for operations other than redemption of taxes. So that's why I ask because it says right on a dollar bill that this is legal tender for all debts public and private this would definitely be a public that and I don't see how the US constitution can grant authority to meant. Money. And the State. We governments refuse to acknowledge its validity. We don't. This availability of the. Under. The problem that we're running into or more more instances. Is that our sales that are outside the office last year we had one individual hi two hundred thousand dollars and one hundred dollar bills and we that is not an isolated incident it's gotten we have greater and greater issue over the last. Or say three years since we started back up with public options after the pandemic. And we have a. Concern from. Some of. Legal entities legal. Federal legal entities that there could be an opportunity for money laundering to go all in that circumstance and that's part of our issue we're going to be bringing forth a bill just cleared the house yesterday it takes care of the other side of that on the redemption period but that doesn't completely ended and we passed significant discussions with outside legal agencies regarding that and that's what we'll do we will not cease to let people redeem their their taxes to pay their taxes with cash for no reason would we consider that book or simply purchasing property from our organization we are planning to eliminate you doing cash July one. If I get a follow up question. So that's what concerns me we're headed down the road we're today it's the two hundred thousand dollars transaction and tomorrow it's the two hundred dollar transaction. I can't accept that is there any language in this bill that prohibits use of cash or we just broadening other things because. I'm to I just wanna tell you I don't think it's. It would stand up to a constitutional challenge to refuse to accept US currency and you're talking about a big two aren't on the transaction. My son went to the boat ramp this past summer in Hebrew springs where they charge a five dollar fee to launch a vote and they would refuse to accept cash. So you know I can't support any bills regardless how much I love the content that are taking us to a cashless society is this bill doing that. Is it saying we're not gonna take cash we're not gonna take cash for for public safety. Still can we still collect the way we do now we're taking checks we're only we're only talking about cash where you could require that they deliver the cash to the land commissioner's office here at the capitol instead of having to take it at a remote location. But to. Say that you're not going to step cash. In my opinion unconstitutional. Senator Dotson. Thank you Mr So what I heard you say was the you're going to stop accepting cash July one regardless whether this passes or not that's not part of this particular language that's correct so whether this passes or not. Only applies to. Section B.. Before a judge. I think that's. I think that the one we're looking at your that submit payment amount of one hundred twenty five dollars to commissioner state lands that's correct so. Currently under this I mean it it says including without limitation so you could potentially except a hundred twenty five dollars in cash but it's not required under this code section if this were to pass it be that hundred twenty five dollars would be for credit card debit card electronic tronic check a screwed money order cashier's check or certified bank check only. That's correction. Okay thank you. Red Senator flowers. I'm I'm trying to understand. The Bill. I thought it was not controversial so I didn't spend a lot of time on it. So this is. For you have. Want to deposit the he said lakes a. Streamer lake. That includes the creek by you. Senator flowers a good. Okay so I'm trying to understand. Hello I can recall disputes. That clients have brought to me. About. Properties. Adjacent to a creek. And so. One property owner Liz on one's all right thank you than possesses ownership of. One side of the creek. And then another the other side of the creek. Their original deeds do not. Include the public. You understand what I'm saying yes ma'am okay so far so regional statute allow the. Commissioner of state lands to. Issue a D.. To which one. To whoever L. Fite this actually is more frequent in the southeast portion of the state I know portion this state because of the sole content and as the river over the years expands to one side of the river more than the other the incident here of that beyond creek there be sand and dirt buildup individually brush and trees grow and over a period of years that creates a new period of land I'll. That is it creates that new piece of land it got it from somewhere and we have many parcels that are non existent today that our own art TAXDELINQUENT road because the Arkansas River or the White River items they just disappear thank you as the river moved over it took that entire partial and it just disappeared there's nothing we don't have any way of dealing with that natural activity but we do have a way of dealing with the inside of that the end where that land has built up over the years and one of the requirements is it has to be cold you have to be able to cultivate. So we have done this since I've been at the Commissioner state lands office we've done this three times and it's a very difficult process for the people trying to do it with this they have to bring money up here and apply deposit with us we have to go higher surveyor that the survey results have to be brought in then they have to find three witnesses that can attest to what happened and then we can possibly issue that the we don't have to issue the day what we're trying to do is clarify that process the the core of this bill is to allow those people to do their survey to hire their own survey and then just send it to this what making trips to Little Rock that are unnecessary yes do you work down there send us the information will act on that point but to answer your question yes ma'am there's nothing I can do about someone's landed road on the north side of the river And built up island or even up a big B. and but like I say it's an infrequent. Activity but it does occur. Now well. You know what the striking. The language. About. A survey to be done by the county surveyor that imagine I don't know hit county surveyor's. A. I would advise clients to. Try to tap into the county surveyor. And I know surveys because a lot of money yes. So do we have County surveyor's. The one in your county where I'm from I'm not sure about the other one where I'm from. And So it sounds like whoever has the money. Between landowners that have. Probably access and may have a claim. To that land that is built up as a result of the. Erosion number. Whatever is happening. Of. But this bill doesn't deal with that you say is just a process yes ma'am this. Primarily this bill allows you as the interested party to obtain the services you can be the county surveyor if you have one but to obtain the services of the surveyor instead of coming to Little Rock paying us this is the you have to visit with us we'll talk about who the surveyors going to be then we would hire the surveyor you would leave a deposit with this and that's how we would pay for this just circumstance circumvents that still unless you do that information at all we're going to have a way to do all this online you will have to drive up here and do it all you can do every bit of it online. What part of the bill is there any notice to. Adjoining landowners that might have a claim on might have an objection to this property being conveyed to. There were that's a good question Senator flowers I don't have that answer we do notices for everything else in the world so I'll be very surprised if we don't in the paper but I can't answer that question directly at the what I can do is after this meeting and get an answer to you in about five minutes. In about one about five minutes what is it five months now I can okay we'll make a call. Senator flowers read of another member ninety the center Dotson. Thank you Mr chair I'm I'm trying to. To tie a couple things you're you're deleting and then information you're adding back in here together and it says in here the hundred twenty five dollar fee that you're talking about you're striking the language where. Upon application there for deposit with the Commissioner state lands estimated cost of the survey of lands to be fixed do you know approximately what the average survey cost is that you're requesting deposit for is that that same hundred twenty five dollars or is it more or less. I have no. Options I will explain one hundred twenty five dollars we're going through factually Senator Payton when he came into the house back in twenty nineteen you could legislation for us and one of the concerns was what cost or for the Commissioner state lands in issuing dates commissioners had undertaken extensive project and what we're trying to do is determine what the cost or to a particular action primarily we do redemption dates and limited warranty date on we're trying to determine the price of All deeds and then scrub the cost to that particular type of day that's what we've done here we were terribly under shot at we spend about ten hours of legal work on these particular dates like I say there are only three of them and we weren't gonna put up eleven hundred fifty dollar. Build something but we do need a hundred twenty five dollars to cover what we consider recoverable costs out of this that will go into the commissioners fees lack the bill you passenger paying but so will this so that hundred twenty five dollars currently that's a new fee that's not being collected the survey would be on top of that that is correct so whatever the cost of the survey is still be something that That would be required of whoever's. Trying to get to the property Looking at section. The top of the page three here section see under that strike out in the new language there is says It previously the commissioner shall pay for the cost of the survey lands at the money deposited subsection B. which was estimated amount That language is being replaced and now the Commissioner of State land's may issue that the. so someone could pay all these this fee and all this different stuff but they have no guarantee that if all these things are done the Commissioner of State land shall issue that the that's correct. Even if they jump through all the the stuff what were you going with may instead of shall and that would. Flowers question actually if this created an issue where. it was denying the right of someone access that is going contiguous piece of property there are a variety of reasons that might be a circumstance where we were not able to. To Fulfill the requirement of the day we would know pretty well before we got deeply into this whether that would be the case or not. And then following along in subsection D. there you're striking a five dollar fee for issuance of the deed. Our but you're putting in the rules process so is it your intention to come back and ask for that five dollars or more in rules one hundred twenty five dollars or one hundred twenty five dollars that's over here will be the cap yes Sir the maximum amount yes so that five dollars when I come back to that five dollars being replaced by a hundred twenty five dollars. Okay thank you. In other questions Senator Payton. Thank you Mr my question is to us Senator Stubblefield would you consider an amendment to this bill under Page two line thirty one under section be there to add US currency. It still have a list of all the other ways to pay we're talking about a hundred twenty five dollars not two hundred thousand. I'm not sure the commission State land along with. Well I thought he was concerned with the big transactions this is a hundred twenty five dollars. We're we have to have a single policy will have a policy for all transactions other than redemption date we will accept it for work limited warranty dates either it'll only be redemption date people that the in that instance you're paying your taxes and that's what we would do for your call have a single policy of no cash with the exception of redemption date Sir okay thank you thank you Mr. One. You have to cast aside to. I. Put members push your buttons whenever you whenever you're well I'll keep back up here I worked close with the Commissioner state lands he's he's a great friend of mine a brother. Been going to church with him for many years and I'd love an opportunity to visit with him about this before we vote thank you. Any other questions. Go ahead Senator. This is it this bill. But just like with. Limited warranty date. Does an individual. Have that may have a claim. For that property. That the Commissioner of State Land. Under this law needs to someone makes this application. Is there an appeal process. Is there a certain amount of time when it can be contested. I somebody that may have a claim to it. Senator S. is laid out in rules as laid out in code no ma'am. we do quite a bit of due diligence through the process will contact the surrounding people and and make sure what's going on. We would not. Be interested in issuing a deed for land that in the B. and half of that we're sure spend half of that was someone else's we're not going to do that. We're going to we're going to do in areas where it is clear cut because we realize what we're doing we're allowing someone to have a deed to land within the state of Arkansas that has been created. And so we recognize the seriousness of that activity and that's why we're we're very cautious I don't know how we would write the rules to make that will certainly be willing to visit with you about. With. So with the lan. That would just be for farming. What about the water. Around. Is that in the D.. No ma'am the date only goes to the ordinary I wanted more. It will tell me more about how order because I'm not familiar with the how what I need done high water mark with their leads and stuff like that but can you be a little bit more specific help me understand that S. because that's a that's a issue all over the state of Arkansas the Commissioner state lands manages water in a body of water that is up to the ordinary high water mark that doesn't necessarily mean the hundred year floods that means the ordinary hi that that water gets to and you can do those surveys and studies and tell the difference in the make up of the soul in the make up of the trees and things around where that typically is and then all the way down to the bottom of the river or the lake and up to the other side ordinary high water mark that with the exception of mulberry river which has its own set of laws and rules and what not that is how we do it the state of Arkansas so the Commissioner state lands is responsible for managing that area between the two ordinary I. watermarks so you have access to the water absolutely but you cannot prevent people from other people from having access to the water as well so just because you get this area in the river here. You don't own that part of the river the only on down to where the water gets to its highest point. Senator would you like to wait and address your chin senator Payton's concerns on this bill or. What would your will before no one. What you put push push button center so we'll wait and letters sent to pray and talk to the Commissioner Tommy lands. And see if you come to an understanding on this. Right this one to eleven sixty four. Part eleven eleven sixty four means a law concerning correction Greers arising from your own the sale of lands of the state of Arkansas and to amend the law concerning the duties of the Commissioner of state lands section one amends Arkansas Code twenty two days six one oh two striking a significant number of progress in the existing language which are obsolete no longer performed by the commission state lands it also makes grammatical clarifications there is no emergency clause. Anything that Mr boards. No Sir any questions. The any discussion I can go ahead and go ahead Senator flowers. So Mister Boyd. It's just simple terms. Tell me what we don't need this anymore. The language that's being district senator flowers as far back as I can find we haven't been doing it it preceded the previous commission that it was being done and I suspect the previous one before that this is pure nineteen forty seven code back then there was a process in state government where the treasurer and auditor went through all of the funding and if that isn't done anymore and we do this. Not regularly but we do this we have a different process for handling it and as far back as I can check for because I've been able to find we've done it the new way not that way I don't know I wish I could tell you I don't know what. So what is a new way of it and we're talking about just correcting deeds that were issued in error. Yes ma'am if we find that the and and this only involves state on land that has been so let's say that you you receive a parcel of land from the game and fish commission and it was a rolling Sali so do do surveying issues due to recording issues whatever reason this gives us the ability to cancel that sale and give the land back to the game and fish commission who the re original owners and we left the party in there that are ruling stands commissioners ruling stands unless it's overturned by. Court. For that area this just eliminates all the middle part god we don't involve the auditor or the treasurer the language we're deleting involves health they would repay the money to you and to whomever that constrict right from us now. Any other questions. Any other discussion. What's the will of committee. Motion by Senator Pitsch in second by Senator not send all in favor say aye All opposed Like sign thank you senator. Thank you. The we we are to have our our committee pictures Thursday barring any inclement weather so. John John you come at your age Thursday Thursday at your. Thursday you said was you're pretty day so you'll have to go ahead. Right. So if if there's no other business we are adjourned.