Education Committee- House

Your sees a quorum we will reconvene this meeting the house Education Committee. Members we will begin taking up public testimony. For and against for Senate bill two ninety four. Before we get started I want to call your attention you should have a hand out on your desk from the Arkansas rule educators association Mr Copeland had a last minute issue come up he had signed up to speak so he prepared a written testimony for your record. You can read through that at your convenience but want to make note make sure that you were aware that. Members without objection we currently have ninety four signed up to speak for against without objection I would move that. We take public testimony at five minutes per person that does not include questions from committee members would allow each member five minutes to get there testimony and then if they will take your questions and that will not count into the five minutes any objection to that. Seeing none then thank you for that indulgence we will begin. With Pierce Renfro Arkansas teenager publicans. We speak for Senate bill two ninety four. Renfro if you'll come to the table identify yourself for the record then you may begin your testimony. Yes Sir thank you Mr chairman. Second here. Right good afternoon my name is peers Renfro I am a senior at Russellville high school an officer with the Arkansas federation of teenager publicans and today I'm here representing conservative students from around the state. At our annual convention last summer or membership unanimously passed a resolution in support of school choice declaring that every student should have access to the same level of education that best meets their needs regardless of their family's financial or geographical status. As students ourselves we're recognizing that it's time for the state of Arkansas to put students and families first in order to become the leader in education now and for the generations that are to follow after us. ACT scores from last year report the class of twenty twenty three the class I'll be walking across the graduation stage in two months demonstrate that a mere thirty one percent of those students from reading readiness standards in reading. And only nineteen percent are meeting re reading a standards in math. By issuing diplomas to students who are not prepared for the real world our education system is doing students of Arkansas a major disservice in doing that the value of an Arkansas diploma is severely diminished it's time to right this wrong by overhauling the educational opportunities available to Arkansas students while ensuring that the education that garners that diploma is worthy of it. Parents and students should have the ability to choose a school that best fits their needs in order to get the best education possible in doing so Arkansas students will be equipped to pursue the successful future that they are capable of achieving it's time not just for educational reform the educational transformation Arkansas and the conservatives tunes of Arkansas are fully supporting the learns Act and the step that it's taking to push Arkansas education to be the best it can be thank you. For any questions for the witness. Representative long you're recognized for a question yes Sir in hello to you I'm seventeen he had to go to private school I do not I go to rest a high school thank you Sir thank you. I see no other questions thank you for your testimony we will go thanks to the against Tristan noble. Please forgive me if I did not pronounce it correctly. You will. Recognized not yourself for the record then you have begin your testimony Tristen conoidal it was close though. Thank you Mr chair and committee for allow me this opportunity to speak this afternoon I just want to talk about a couple of points in the learns Act. First I'd like to say that I do appreciate the rabies the fifty thousand for the minimum teacher salary however. I believe entering teachers deserve to have access to more than two thousand. And if we have those funds available that you know we would already be paying them that amount of money and so I don't think there's equitable it was hard for me yesterday to look my veteran teachers in the eye and tell them you know at mount a school district we're not gonna be able to give you as much as a teacher. Who's been teaching one or two years and get a fourteen thousand dollar raise versus two thousand so as not equitable. I'm worried about the funding of how we're gonna be funded if we're just funded on the matrix the matrix account for bare bones what it takes to run the school and that's concerning the matrix hasn't been significantly updated since its inception. You know small rule schools very concerned right now in particular I spent fourteen years as an educator all in small rural districts across southeast and southwest Arkansas. And if the school start to close these communities die the small communities and and you know there's evidence that everywhere in Arkansas. Our kids are worth the investment in our teachers are to. My second point that I'd like to make involving the voucher system. Research that was presented very recently here in Arkansas John Hattie who is a well renowned educational researcher. States the voucher do not have a significant positive impact on education. Private schools and home schools will not be held to the same accountability as public school though they will be able to receive public funds. The Arkansas state constitution does state that education shall be free and equitable to everyone. The voucher program clearly does not meet that standard if private schools and home schools are not gonna be held to the same level of accountability as public school. With that said there are lots of things in the bill to like. But I am opposed system to Senate bill two ninety four in its current form and I appreciate this opportunity to present my testimony today. Thank you Sir any members or with questions for the witness. Seeing none thank you Sir thank you. Next will be Monica Daniels. Spaniel's if you will come to the table identify yourself and who you represent. And you may begin your testimony. Hi my name is Monica Daniels and I'm the administrator of cornerstone Christian academy thank you for this opportunity to share a couple of testimonies about our school that's located in small rule a southeast corner of Arkansas in the big city of Taylor population a hundred fifty seven but the lord establish C. CA twenty two years ago when we opened our doors to twenty six precious students from day one we had parents reaching out to us asking to to mother specifically come to mind that they were just wanting to know if there is anything that can be done to help pay tuition they ask if we offered scholarships they were just seeking and they were searching away to find a way to give or provide their their child with what they felt was best for their child but financially was just out of reach every year we have many families seeking financial support for tuition we work diligently at being good stewards of our money to keep our tuition rate as low as possible because it is our heart's desire the any and all children who desire and whose family would like them to be there and feels that their their child with Robert C. CA it's our desire that they have that opportunity. We work with each family to help figure out a way to help them overcome their financial hurdles to date our yearly tuition is three thousand three hundred dollars and we still have so many families who cannot afford this tuition right the bill will provide a way for moms dads grandparents sisters brothers aunts uncles and foster parents to reach out to us each year searching for a way away AT given provide their child with what they feel is the best and yes if you're wondering those two mama's twenty two years ago they did find a way last session whenever the choice program passed it provided an opportunity for so many families in our community to raise a financial assistance it was a tremendous blessing words are simply not feeding to express the joy on their faces and their relief in their voices when we begin sharing the names thank you guys so much with each passing year we strive to grow in knowledge and wisdom in order to serve our children in a spirit of excellence from day one our purpose as being to share the values of our faith the love of Jesus and to serve all children throughout our throughout our community as our student population began to grow the needs of our students also began to grow in two thousand and five we established an intervention lab to meet the needs of our students who needed more explicit teaching based on their specific needs around this time we also partnered with our local school district and have participated in title funding programs for the past seventeen years thank you to the public school administrators are Ellie eighteen who we work closely with stretching from one three central Lake Village dar might do mess and McGee our relationships go way beyond district lines the love for our children and like minded gene does our focus. Sturch what we can do to help children grow grow and reach their fullest potential regardless of which school the genuine love for children is evident in every decision made our meetings and decisions focused on the children who are the future leaders of our communities and our great state regardless of which district their parents decide is best I praise the lord for the beautiful friendships and camaraderie with Southeast Arkansas Public dish school districts we mutually acknowledge and respect that we all had the same goal in mind helping each student find his or her best path to success. Our relationships. I'm sorry. Our relationship reminds me of proverbs twenty seven seventeen as iron sharpens iron so a friend sharpens a friend there is no competition when it comes to serving and caring for children what is best for one child. Is not what is always best for another which environment will each uniquely designed child thrive in that is in the important question parents get one chance to raise their children this bill will give parents options and provide a way regardless of their monetary means. Working together to help families is what we as educators are called today bringing communities together for our children for our future that is all that really matters this bill will provide a way for every child to found their way. Be prepared to take any questions sure okay members representative garner you're recognized for a question. Thank you very much and thank you for being here I know how tough that can be yes thank you for taking care of your kids and I just have a quick question about who you will allow to come to the school who you'll so do you have any policy about folks who might not be Christian or folks who are LGBTQ or have LGBTQ parents we have or special needs kids that may need one on one care you have the facilities to take care of that. We have in our handbook that all parents get on what. Where there for what our focus is known and what our mission in our purpose and our goal is so what we do is we sat down with our parents before they enroll is in our hearts desire for every child who wants to come absolutely all are welcome but the important thing to know is that you know effective communication has taken place and that we're all on the same page from day one I personally have a special needs child that the lower place in our lap about seventeen years ago not at the time not having a clue that he would be diagnosed with intellectual disability cognitive and oral apraxia of speech so we have worked very hard over the years as we have had to grow and learn to meet the needs of students but it's very clear our parents when we set and we discussed each child individually what we have to offer so that they can. Make a decision because we can't offer everything but we want to be real and honest with each parent to let them know this is what we have. And and I mean there's so many different needs for for each unique child to you know go through a list of what we can and we can't but do we try yes we do but we definitely want to be honest with the parent to let them know if there's something that maybe we are not the best choice for their child and there might be another school district in our area that might can offer things we just simply can't. Any other questions. C. nine thank you for your testimony to speak against the bill a livia Gardner. Gardnerville identify yourself for the record list of who you're representing and then you may begin your testimony. Thank you Mr chairman and members of the committee my name is Olivia Gardner I'm the education policy director Arkansas advocates for children and families as an advocate for equitable public education here in Arkansas I have a few concerns about this education omnibus first as it's been mentioned although the starting salary is being raised for educators to an applicable fifty thousand dollars it does not appropriately addressed the average salary for veteran teachers and instead I am concerned that it makes the floor to ceiling our efforts focused on recruitment our efforts should be focused on recruitment and retention and I believe this bill only seems to focus on the former not the latter second this bill does very little to address the crisis facing our state in early childhood education there is no money in this bill for increasing access and affordability for pre K. an infant toddler care for families and there is nothing in this bill that adequately supports our early childhood education workforce this bill merrily streamlines the system and kicks the can down the road early learning community are tired of being an afterthought and they can already tell you where the gaps exist and waiting to adequately fund and transform early learning into the next legislative session will simply be too late. Lastly I disagree with the assessment that the research shows that vouchers do you work I'd be happy to follow up with the committee and demonstrate that we actually have decades of research on the impact of school vouchers on neighborhood schools and students and they have shown us that vouchers do not improve educational outcomes for students to receive them especially for students of color English language learners and special education students at the same time they were some outcome worsen outcomes for students who remain in the public school system by decreasing the valuable resources available to them this legislation will undoubtedly drain resources from our public schools over time and it will also hurt our rural school districts many of which I know you represent. I'm also very concerned that this legislation will effectively create a tiered system of education for Kansans with those who already had access to private school or who can afford to make up the difference to attend private school on one side and on the other side those who cannot afford at private school even with the education freedom account funds or those who live in rural areas where private schools are not an option. Ants will always have the right to send their child to a private school or home school their child but the state should not be subsidizing that cost the vast majority of children in our state over ninety percent attend public schools in Arkansas taxpayers Arkansas taxpayer dollars should be used for education or public school education exclusively so that every child in every Arkansas community has the opportunity for world class education beginning at birth thank you. Members any questions for the witness. C. nine thank you for your testimony. Maranda Kavan AS to speak for the bill. But in a fight yourself for the record the representative you may begin your testimony. Hi Amarinder Cavenaugh as first and foremost I am a parent's is seconds I'm a board certified behavior analyst and we do it currently own a private school but I'm here more for my own son and I want to talk about him for a little bit and you get to hear from him soon. he is now thirteen years old he does have an autism diagnosis he had some incredible teachers in the public school system we tried we tried so hard to make it work in the public school system at my husband and I were both employee trying to create a life for ourselves and he was struggling The school was doing everything they possibly could the resources just simply were not there and we needed to be able to access more reading resources for him mostly and some mental health resources and some I have. Other health resources he had debilitating anxiety panic attacks migraines and other health issues specifically a health condition that caused him to run a fever for five plus days at one point we were threatened with a fence petition petition because he wasn't attending school because of his fever I would have sent him but the school can allow him there because of his fevers so I feel like that had a great impact on his ability to learn in that environment he was also incredibly bullied and had a difficult time making friends and just fitting and to his environment at that school we took drastic measures everyone of us had to quit one of our jobs so that we can home school him curriculum was very expensive and I agree public dollars need to have fun public schools but I also didn't get a tax credit or any kind of other issue to help us to educate our son when he wasn't afforded education at school that would fit his needs. so we met roadblock after roadblock we eventually were able to get his reading above grade level he is thriving and doing amazing at this point he's engaged in community theater Yes directors that stated he is an amazing script reader in his auditions and I don't believe we'd be where we are today had we not for those extra resources and her child. In doing all of this I met many parents who needed that same type of resources and at with the clinical masters in psychology and being a board certified behavior analyst I just wanted to help them find those resources so we met parent after parent after parent who needed those same resources committee to I've heard a lot of testimony about poverty many here at that poverty level and they just want what's best for their child and. We've worked really hard to Create an environment where every child can thrive regardless of their education status regardless of their income status and regardless of their cognitive abilities so we try to make an all inclusive environment for those kids and and help them find those resources so. We're at a place where we have to create change parents are fully capable of identifying the needs for their kids. And we should be respecting those parents when they come to us needing resources. We should not be demonized because our kids don't fit into a one size fits all education system. That model doesn't fit everybody. I applaud parents to reach out and try to find what's best for their kids. The other thing I wanted to talk about was that accountability aspect as a home schooling mom and as a private school mom much and as a behavior analyst I love the accountability aspect some people are very upset about that in the home schooling environment or think that the home school moms will be upset about that we are not we think data is fantastic and honestly I probably assess more in the home school environment that my kid was ever assessed in a public school setting. I want to know that he's thriving I want to know that he's meeting outcomes measures if they're not I need to make some changes and that's how I make changes and in my day job and that's how I make changes in my child's education is by looking at those outcomes measures. So. Just end on I think this bill is a great bill because it's going to help every student in the state of Arkansas. This shouldn't be a competition of whose best and who is not best I don't care how many kids attend my school at the end of the day if we have to close tomorrow because it's not a good fit for somebody that's okay if there are better options out there I just want every kid to be afforded an opportunity to learn where they learn to be the best kid that they can be and to gain resources and this great state. Thank you for your testimony we accept questions Sir representative flowers you're recognized for a question. Thank you so much Mister chair just quickly I've. Applaud you for The work that you and your husband engaged and to find the services and meet the needs that your son needed. It in your description though of sort of how you got there you talked about how wonderful the teachers were here since two days when the public school and it sounded to me like your you know the issues that you all were cut confronted by were. The non you know physical and and Was it ADHD yes autism and autism So the the so those challenges were your challenges. And then you mentioned that there were many other families who came to you I guess I'm wondering what those. Families who came to you people who also had challenges with physical and intellectual disabilities. We currently serve children of all abilities most of our children have some kind of special need or are twice exceptional but we do have fifteen percent that would be I don't want categories but may be classified as neurotypical kids. And as you follow up and as you have been able to surmount those special needs challenges for your son and others who have come to you for help on those issues you were saying how you found those resources and I'm assuming that was through the succeed of scholarship and if not can you tell us what those resources were that you found before the bill before this bill was yes so we are now accredited so that we can now in the next school year hopefully six as start six accepting the sixties collar set but up until this point we have not we have I found resources within the community we've lived on donations some families pay a very very small tuition I financed a lot of by a person out of our personal budget and to scholarships for our kids to attend We've done a lot of piecing together we are at a point now that I mean we have a wait list because one we're out of space and to. The findings simply not there and so and once the parents have access to more funding. They're not gonna be able to access access these resources however I do feel that this particular bill has those resources in it to help in that public school system so if they choose to stay there that's perfect and especially with the reading coaches I really feel like that was one of the main barriers that we had was a barrier to More reading education and I think that will be helpful. Thank you yes ma'am. Seeing no other questions thank you for your testimony you. Next to speak against the bill is Deanna Klaus. You limited yourself for the record and he represent and then you may begin your testimony. I am Lisa Klaus and I am I have been there. Well now thank you for hearing Mandana Klaus I have been an educator for thirty years. Twenty nine of those have been in the low income rule schools of Arkansas and that's where my heart is a bit of coach a teacher bus driver of a principle a superintendent and I'm back in the classroom teaching seventh grade math which is more my heart is so I'm here today against the bill and what I really would like is for us to slow it down and talk about the good things that are there and discuss the things that I feel like are going to be detrimental to our highest needs students. You we keep talking about access for all students. Every day I live in the world with families in extreme poverty I have to students right now this is a thirty second day of this quarter who missed seventeen of those thirty two days. They missed over half of the school year. How can they learn. They're fat but these students don't know where they're going to sleep tonight they don't know if they're gonna be safe tonight they don't know if they're going to have food when they get home from school. They don't know if the police are going to come to the door tonight to rest mom or dad if there's going to be a domestic disturbance because there were three or four families in one home because they can't afford their own home. And we're tasked with educating those kids and all of those kids those are the underdogs and I love. And right now on my social media and in my community I interact with former students who were in that situation at one point in their life. They are now great Mamas and Daddies they are working productive jobs and be productive members of our community. And they're living their best life because the public school took care of them a public school stepped up for them for their needs. And even with a voucher even with the transportation of peace that's in here. Those students who are missing twelve and fifteen days a quarter every quarter are still gonna not are still going to do that they're still not going to be able to access because their families don't know how to to help them and get them to school and to make these things happen for them. Or they can't they just don't have the means to do it. I don't know why or how I just know I've lived this for thirty years. And these students are not going to get more access we're going to create a more of a have and have not with the way this bill is written right now. There are some amazing things in it that I think are great and I think they sound really great to people who don't live it every day but as I said and read that one hundred and forty four pages there are things that I thought wow this sounds really good but you know what this is what's really going to happen. This is how it's really going to turn out. And I had a whole script and I'm not I'm not even looking at it because I'm just speaking from my heart these kids deserve better than this. The lady who was just up here feel for her that the school did not have the resources that are child needs so instead of taking all this additional money and putting it in vouchers and transportation. A great competitive grants and all these things let's put it in the public school so we can have the resources that her child needed let's do that. That's the public tax dollars belong in the public schools or we can educate all of our students I'm an underdog champion and always will be and they deserve our best they do not deserve us to give up on them and let all of the ones who can leave the public school and leave nothing there but kids who can't do any better because their families they can't help but it's not their fault we need to help them this will have thank you for your. Any questions for the witness. C. nine thank you for your testimony Sir. Cassandra Bowman. Speak for the bill. Solidify yourself for the record and you're representing and and you may begin your testimony. My name is Cassandra brown M. I'm here to represent my son he goes to compass academy in Conway my son has an autism diagnosis at we did all of the early intervention steps that you know we could do. After the early intervention that's kinda where things fall apart for special needs children He went to pediatrics plus which was great then it was time to transition and I'm sorry I'm gonna get emotional but that's just how it is it was time to transition out of that safe environment into the public school we live in the Jacksonville school district the Jacksonville school district does not have the resources for special needs children. I was told from the administrators at pediatrics plus that if my child where to go and attend that school it was going to be a constant battle for us because our son well had very bad behavior problems And they had very little resources for that it was gonna be I was going to be picking him up from school more than he was going to be at school at the you know and that was an option for us because me and my husband both work to provide for our family we are a two income family and if we went down to a one income family. We're gonna be on the street to be completely honest so nobody really gave us any kind of other resources at the time B. sides. Public school and that just wasn't an option for us because I talked to the school that was five minutes from our house that my two older children I tend they attended they still tend public school not a public school small by any means but public schools is not a one size fits all for all children. So I started doing my own research and that's when I found compass academy it was out of our price range my child receives a succeed Scholarship scholarship and I thank all of you guys for passing that to where that is available to my child but without that scholarship he would not be where he is now he can actually stay in a classroom setting and be taught my child who was barely speak is doing multiplication because of the fact that he was afforded an education in a safe environment for him I'm sorry special needs children are not to be dealt with and that's how the public school treats them they are to be accepted that's all special needs children want is to be accepted in the environment that they're in not to be looked at as they have to be dealt with in oh here comes another one because we're going to have to have a bigger budget for this one child because their special needs and that's what I was faced with that the public school. I am the school down the street from our house said we don't have a special education teacher anything at this school you're going to have to send him to the school across town because that's where we stick the special education children. So you tell me how that fits into my child being accepted to where he's getting shipped off to somewhere else that's not equipped to really deal with them either because that's what they said is deal with him we don't want to be dealt with we want to be accepted we want to be heard so. Honestly every child should have the opportunity if they don't they'll fit into the mold at a public school. Thank you. Thank you for your testimony any questions for the witness. Seeing none. Next to speak against the bill heath Bennett. If you'll identify yourself the record the representative you may begin your testimony. I thank chairman eleven greatly appreciate this opportunity to come to you today and all House committee members to speak to you against Senate bill two ninety four. Been blessed to know some of you my whole career in education have the opportunity to work in small schools large schools schools with poverty school without poverty. I don't think that anybody here speak for against this bill is not extremely passionate for the children for the state of Arkansas. When we look at this bill and what could possibly happen for years to come there's no doubt it's one of the biggest bills in the history of public schools. When we look at testing and we look at the way public schools are tested and we look at third grade. I work from home grown school district I'm the superintendent Haskell I'm very blessed and fortunate we're very school recommended a great staff. Before covered we were a school elementary and covered yet now we're B. school by legislator standards were a failure. We had eighty students that tested my son being one of them last year and at a four hundred and eighty one schools we were forty eight we're in the top ten percent were labeled a failure. At of two hundred and thirty one school districts were in the top five percent. Or a failure. It was very disheartening. Listening to certain people talk about how public schools fail all the time. I as a couple speakers ago I'm a true underdog story if you look at my ACT scores you probably wonder how in the world I'm superintendent. I'm very blessed and fortunate that I had people that believed in me a long time ago. That's what public schools to. We have some kids that ride buses over two hours. I'm not really sure how in the world of actors going to help. The students don't have wifi a. Some are just hoping to have supper that night. They don't know where they're going to sleep that. With this bill was been worked on for months even though in a forty eight hour period it was filed and then ran. We've been told help so many superintendents were involved and I'm very very gracious and respectful of the representatives and senators and Meyer to represent me they talked me nonstop they talked to superintendents in our area nonstop they constantly try to communicate with us for up for ever grateful for that. But even those elected officials truly didn't know what was in the plan the new pieces of what was going to be in the plan. I go back to again or third grade. If nobody's ever educated you on this test with ACT aspire with third grade it's about a sixty five minute computerized based test. My son was in that group of third graders heaven for me and for whatever reason his older sister and him got into it the night before that morning on the way to school and have not been super focused on answering those twenty eight questions this on that test. If you answered I believe. Fifteen of those questions correctly. You were not ready. If you answered sixteen of those questions correctly then you're considered graded. Your consider profession. Or you're considered a failure. And as a public school superintendent. My district in many districts in the state get labeled failures. And I know nobody wants to use code as an excuse or anything like that but it was on the toughest times at least in my career I've ever been through. Trying to educate kids on zoom is impossible. Teaching kids face to face and making sure they're fed. When you got teacher screaming crying their eyes out. Concerned about their students that's public school teachers. That's public school principals. We've had to legislative breakfast in Selangor council that I've been fortunate blessed to get to go to. Last Friday questions arose of all these teachers that's been involved with this plan and all the superintendents across the state thank is around two hundred thirty to two hundred forty superintendents I've yet to talk to one superintendent that was involved in this plan. When asked. By one of the sponsors of the bill. At of the. Four hundred and seventy six thousand public school teachers they were available to help run on the bill and work on the bill. Three retired teachers help work on the bill. Your time is up if you could let you kind of close that closure last point in yes Sir Mr. I know this is a very important bill for public schools private schools charter schools. Ram February the fifteenth thirty seven charter schools either received a D. or F.. With hesitation our board of education extended their charters. If a public school has a derail. We have to explain our failing. S. elected official you wear a hat our head as a superintendent Wednesdays I will take his hat off you're going to take your hat off as a legislator you're still going to reside in these communities. Whether they're bigger small I hope and pray that the findings there like we've been told now for a few weeks because if it's not you might have some of the best highways in the world going through your town that you might not have a school thank you but would you take entertain a questions are restaurant represented flowers you're recognized thank you Mr. thank you very much for your testimony I just have a question Can you tell us how. This bill might impact your school of your schools in your district especially if there might be I mean we hear a lot about this going to take money away from public schools to talk to us about that and. You made the point about how superintendents were at the table in constructing the language for this bill if you were able to share with the sponsors and co sponsors of the bill. Three things that could make it work. For public schools can you tell us what those things might be well I will say this in our districts and harmony Grove we have we run anywhere from about twelve hundred twenty to five hundred ninety six we're very fortunate there's a lot of parents and guardians that really like our districts because we have over three hundred school choice they come to our districts from all over. When you look at salaries as has been stated in testimony this morning we don't have a whole lot of federal money teachers and things like that but there's a lot of districts that do. Where is that money going to come from nobody wants to slash programs and things like that if it's truly going to be funded are we using this current matrix that's based off five hundred. Or using a different matrix and I greatly appreciate all the work this month and the thousands of hours to spend spend on these the ugly emails that I know that you all have received whether you're Republican or Democrat either way. It's about students in Arkansas I don't care who passes the bill. As a matter kids. And one thing I would say without a doubt is again when you're looking at salaries if this is funded for the first first two years that's what we talk about first two years were okay you're three who knows. As those salaries are compounding is the money going to be there. Because for the state of Arkansas of R. two hundred and thirty to two hundred forty school districts. We have over a thousand school districts that have I'm sorry we have a hundred and twenty two school districts that have a less than a thousand students. Less than a thousand students that's a huge impact for them and depend on how this is funded is going to be huge for everybody going for everybody wants safety we've been very blessed and fortunate with S. R. funds and what you did manage and women gentleman ladies have approved for us to stand with our S. R. funds with what we were given we were able to add those electronic locking doors we added since then we've got cameras everywhere. We wanted to try to be as head of the game as we could be and I don't think there's any school public or private that doesn't want to keep everybody's baby safe these parents and guardians are sentence the best they got every day. Representative make sure recognized for a question. Thank you Mr just just real briefly in your opening comments you mentioned that your school with a B. rating that legislators consider that a failing school I know speaking for myself I do not consider that a failing school by any means and I'm just wondering was somebody communicating that to you you know I obviously we don't want to try to be a school's or possible and obviously your your passion for your kids coming through on that and that's what we want from our superintendents I just wanna make sure that was no one's telling you that you're failing because you're getting a B. well. When you run a bill in your bill is based off a third of the students in Arkansas can't read at grade level I do understand that without a doubt. But I also understand that every child comes from a different background And some of the students the absolute best place in the world that they have this from about seven thirty three thirty every day totally agree with us and. We can't fix everything it doesn't matter go give us a hundred thousand dollars apiece we can't fix every time we want to try we want to make it a happy place where they can learn because kids want to be learned and taught I just wanna be loved and at the end of the day. I'm prospecting a lot for every public school teacher because again it's disheartening when there's a lot of people in this room. That has made me the educator that I am today. And as a superintendent. I'm a liar. I'm not trustworthy I've got all this money sitting over here to the side somewhere. It's all public record income check it anytime you like. Thank you Sir. Representative McKenzie you're recognized thank you Mr I just want to clarify your school district currently benefits from school choice correct yes Sir that is correct okay and I do one more clarification on the question representing me excess so you have a B. rating currently correct currently from this past year okay in what is your third grade. literacy rate did you say that that's why you're considered failing well if you sit there and look at it again if you go back by our numbers even if we're sitting there fifty two percent you know we're just over half of them that was truly ready but again I go back to on the twenty eight question test. You can have seven or eight kids that might be just passed by one question you could have the same amount that failed by one question and in the eyes of the way this bill is laid out. I truly believe yes we all want to every child to be ready to go into the fourth grade and be reading a grade level and so on we sit here and we look and we say these things that are passed out that all of our kids are failing and they're struggling and things like that there's no doubt or district can do better every district in the state can do better follow Mister recognized. Pardon me so I just wanna make sure we we pause on that because general aptitude normative test do require us to say above a line or below a line that someone is ready for the next great or not Sir so I understand that at a twenty eight questions get a base test obviously conditions like you mention about your son and your daughter get in an argument before and that's context and anyone's have taken but a certain level don't you believe that it's incumbent on us to say based on a general aptitude tests certain kids are prepared to to go up in grade level and and others need additional resources or attention yes Sir I agree completely I agree without a doubt that this is the last year of us offering ACT aspire in with cambia. I can only hope and pray that it's more than one assessment. If you give multiple assessments you're going to know how a lot more about a child when we have colleges in the state of Arkansas this going off of right point own entering and scholarships and things like that versus true just ACT or SAT scores maybe they're on to something. Representative Vaught you're recognized thank you Mr chair. Hello Mr Bennett hello hope you're doing well I haven't seen in many years nice to see you here I too am not a test taker totally understand my ACT was not great at all but I did graduate from college and I am a product of public school and have to public school teachers. And I admire many teachers I'm sorry that you and teachers around the state have been talked to as though you are less than because I think you are the true heroes of the state because you do do for our kids every day. And I think that you did not answer representative flowers question and I would like to know the answer if there was three things within the bill that you could change that would make it better for public schools could you please tell us what those would be thank you well I go back to again as far as making sure that is going to be fully funded and funded for years to come that's the first thing because even as much as we want to educate every child we have to have teachers I can have the best principles in the world and I think I do but those teachers in the classrooms there in the trenches everyone is doing it every day. as far as the mayor may and things like that I'm not really sure how well that's going to help on the bill the schools that I know of that is but merit pay and things like that is created such a divide between those teachers that receive merit pay versus the ones that don't I think that's a big issue as well and again you know when you're sitting there and you're looking at the bill. I'm not the smartest person in the world but I'm trying to figure out how you can pull three pots of money out. And everything's going to be equal for years to come. The accountability piece I believe that representive Wooten has talked about. It's not apples to apples there's no way and I'm not saying that private schools aren't excellent I believe every parent or guardian should have the right to send their child wherever they won't but I don't believe it's fair to put it on pulling public tax dollars to help sustain an offset. The tuition that your kid was going to go once you enroll them if they are accepted there's a whole lot of students who will never get into a private school now there might be some of these micro schools to come up and I'm I can get him in and that may be what's the best fit for them regardless of their needs I agree we surely need to meet the needs of every child whatever platform whatever school that might be. But I definitely think that there's some devil's in the details without a doubt and again I greatly respect everyone of you in the job that you do nothing that you decide as easy whatsoever but this bill will define you. As a representative for the senators this bill will define them for years to come for public education the state of Arkansas. All right. I would ask you please hold your applause whether you're for or against the bill and pending on what someone says as the afternoon goes on no motions are going to run a little Titan. Just try to conduct ourselves all as is everyone working for the same in result speaking. Thank you for your testimony but no other questions. Next to speak for the bill Amanda SQ. Miss ask you here yes there she is. You'll identify yourself for the record and who you represent and you may begin your testimony. My name is Amanda ask year I am here as a parent and as a private school administrator I'm we operate at home school private school hybrid cooperative in northeast Arkansas called the light house we have three campuses St John's FOR all have bono in Pocahontas and home I'm excited about what this bill can do for all students regardless of where they are educated I see it as a potential win for all and I do believe that's truly the intent behind it. I'm as representative Rick said and private schools generally have a strong interest in teaching children with special needs because that is the population most in need of alternative learning environments we specialize in autism at the White House we have a great staff or teachers speech pathologist occupational therapist and board certified behavior analysts our program is extremely data driven on a daily basis for analyzing data that we collect on our students to make decisions and how we move forward with their educational and therapeutic needs. An honest look at our current situation in most districts is that there are very important students no matter how many or if you need choice the current model is not successful for all children and also be specifically about special lead in our current model children disabilities have something called a self contained classroom I really hate that word. It is sounds like an imprisonment I'm we have. Korabl words around specialized sometimes and sometimes I think we just need to find a better vocabulary but too often children are graduating from that classroom never successfully toilet trained. Can't communicate their basic needs I never learned to read or write in their parents have never even heard of a BA which is the number one recommended treatment for children with autism. Or they only received a minimal dosage and treatment which is inadequate for progress. I treatment frequencies for speech occupational and physical therapy in the public school are typically at a bare minimum impact third grade if they were ever appropriate given that most therapies can be billed to Medicaid insurance this is at no cost to the school. So inclusion children with milder forms of autism or other disabilities and are often included into the classroom which I think is wonderful inclusion for the sake of inclusion I was reckless teachers still need support and they still need training and so my experience of hearing from parents about the modifications and eyepieces Act they're inadequate or not correctly executed. At regular ed teachers are currently being forced to teach under impossible conditions thirty children ranging from delayed ability to advance ability can't be taught by one teacher no matter how many trainings you sent her to. Most classrooms are not appropriately staff to meet the needs of these children again insurance can provide for a one on one for children with autism under the right circumstances in some cases downs as well so I keep hearing give schools the money why aren't they providing more for the students when is no cost to them why do so many parents in this state the other district had has the resources to do more and they didn't why are these children content to stay in a school that is determined to meet their needs. To the vouchers don't work crowd I'd like you to meet my students and with his permission I'd like to share about wanting Cale he was diagnosed very early in life he's extremely intelligent in fact you can tell you what day of the week a particular date which would follow on in the past hundred years or even into the future but as a third grader he came to us and he couldn't tell as if he was hungry or scared or just wanted to read a different book and he's primarily what we call actually like which means he just repeats the question Pete's what someone else has said unfortunately his peers use that against him when he was in school and he was held down repeatedly anti every word under this sign some I didn't now and and he came to us with what is really PTSD symptoms. He was I'm environment that is very unsafe for him and he became triggered very easily was reactive with aggressive behavior he spiraled into depressive thoughts with the fixation on death and horror. I know he had teachers and students around him that loved him and that meant well and wish that they could do more but he needed out immediately the transition was difficult for cal at first because he had no understanding of a trustworthy relationship with his school if items often remain withdrawn but finally with adequate therapeutic services we had break there's he now keeps his peers and staff involved in his game show routines where he stops us all interviewer pursuit he has a hunger for historical events in his learning environment allows for him to learn that subject to add an advanced rate while also giving him extra support in other areas and best of all cal has friends. I'm confident we'll continue to make gains and I have plans for him to set a record in jeopardy Sunday. I'll also tell you Alex he's another child with autism he came to us to severe PTSD not only from bowling and genetic interactions at school but as a young child and it was also compounded by the sudden death of his father two years prior to coming to our facility Alex wasn't able to express his feelings and had not been able to participate in traditional great counseling due to his communication impairments he was in a state or fighter flight at all times after months of trying to work through speaking out first at one one day screamed at me you did it you killed my father this issue your time is up if you like to give you like to closure testimony and. That's okay it's we are one option and there are a few others in our area some areas don't have these options yet and I'm excited about more that we kinda specialize in the complex needs of certain groups of children I agree schools can't fix it all there it's there's potential for facilities you can reach entire groups of children in our state that need a lot of help thank you thank you welcome a question check your representative Garner you're recognized I just have a quick question how many of the students that you serve are already getting X. exceed scholarship are are eligible for sixty dollars shipped we started our program almost seven years ago and up until last year we were not eligible for C. scholarships I don't know the exact number I think it's around twelve or thirteen of our students currently receive them we serve sixty five children. You're recognized for follow. So. Are they eligible now for sixty dollars ships so we are inclusive environments in all of our children have special needs we try to keep yours around them to balance out ability levels in our classrooms to give them a really inclusive environment so the ones that have I guess a certain diagnosis or meet those requirements we do try to tell them about the opportunity but not all of them have taken advantage of it and and it's not been required and we try to provide an internal scholarships as well through and fundraising and and just really At trying to reduce costs as much as possible for our parents we have very diverse group of students I have all ethnicities economic diversity religious diversity. Okay thank you thank you. I see no other questions thank you for your testimony. Next to speak against the bill Justin acri. What do it by yourself record and the representative you may begin your testimony all right I'm just angry I'm a classroom teacher. Proceed all right so want to start off with so my credentials I'm a two thousand graduate of a cab high school I am a two thousand four graduate of Henderson state university both of them with honors I also obtained my master's degree in educational leadership at Arkansas state university in two thousand twelve after I had been teaching for several years I gonna lead off with the fact that I have ADHD I was undiagnosed all the way through school and boy am I unbridled awesome I made it all the way through all that without any any extra help but not everybody is like me so let me kind of get into this I keep hearing about lack of resources lack of support and and things that you would think and in cases like this are things that teachers have been asking for for a long time like more funding and smaller class sizes because I'm assuming that at the smaller schools they have those smaller class sizes so we really are on to something with that if we can get that that be great but let's talk about other things let's see Under five oh four section five oh four at everybody's entitled to a free and appropriate public not private number of kill Education all right so we have to be really careful how we handle those things so once again more support more money there that would be great that gives us more to work with I think but let's let's talk about some other things here just looking at this bill which I read one all one hundred and forty four pages of in their entirety last Monday night like I'm a glutton for punishment I didn't pre medicate for that I just read everything all the way through so um it really concerned me having done student Congress when I was in college I had the great opportunity of being able to kind of semi set where you guys are and kind of work with with things not not in your capacity but I feel like I have a basic understanding of this and and the way that I that I see this being written and the way that I heard questions being asked earlier I really felt like if if I had written such a bill and submitted it to my professor that it probably would have been sent back because it wasn't complete because we didn't get to go through rules and rags as a classroom teacher if I want my kids to fully understand something that I try to answer every question that I can in the first iteration of what I put out for them to see that way I can handle the small misconceptions along the way I feel like it could have been done a little better or maybe the on the bus was not the way to go maybe it could've been pieced out into individual pieces and make those pieces are really good and then send it out to everyone but let's let's really get into Education as always under funded everywhere and every part of it and I really think that by taking some of this money and investing it in the. The private and parochial things not that they are not doing good work but I I think if if we can really work on those things of that I've already talked about I think we would be in better shape I know I'm kind in the in the minority maybe I don't know I don't know enough people my wife would disagree but I have worked in both public and charter schools okay my experience in the charter school. Was that Is is kind of how things would be I feel luckily there's an amendment but I'm gonna get into this we were at will employees that was different after having worked twelve years in public education prior to that and we were a small charter school and and we were super super tight knit as a faculty like I would a I would have died on a hill for some of those people but we we reached a point where The administrators thought that they were teachers that had too much power in the building let me get into what that entailed one teacher was a history teacher and we didn't have a counselor in the building and she did all of the help for the students with scholarships she helped with the students with applications to colleges and she did it extremely well and she was probably ten years my junior and and so for all that for a young teacher to to burden herself which she was not getting paid for this and and and she was pulling a lot of that she was one of the teachers that was let go. another teacher he was a math teacher it was also a music teacher but he was certified to be a math teacher that's kind of how things went you kinda taught whatever they told you to teach so he also took onto himself to be our tech person or maintenance person once again he's not getting paid for these things under a your time has expired if you like to kind of wine that down and then we'll yes Sir yes Sir and he was dismissed as well along with their headmaster because our headmaster would not fire. so just to give you a taste of that I'll go ahead and open up to questions if you have any any questions from members. C. nine thank you for your testimony today Sir okay. Okay. Thank you Mr you are recognized thank you so much Mr just real quick and I'm I've found the lancers of the last witness who had Spoken to you know concerns about the bill. Are there are three things that you could point out to sponsors and co sponsors to address your concerns are to make the bill better. as far as specifics about that yes sections of the bill yes a lot of the questions that were brought up I I I felt like in specific where specifically the sponsors of the bill like had a long wait time for those answers and I know as a teacher in my class or there's a long wait time usually the the correct answer does not follow I feel like It is things that let's see I made notes of it but once again I'm AT HDMI paper looks like this so sorry about that things that could be better specifics on where the matrix of funding is coming from the specific formulas that we're talking about how merit pay and different things are determined like right now it seems extremely clandestine it is not public knowledge we don't know what's going on because I don't know about you but I sure would love ten thousand dollars and I would like to know the way to get to it. Represent flowers do you follow thank you. Thank you serve your testimony to speak up for the bill Tiffany Mott. State your name for the record and identify the. The representative today you may begin your testimony. Hello thank you for letting me be here today my name is Stephanie ma and I'm the mother of two boys with autism and we're from Lake City Arkansas I'm here to advocate for my children up until last year had no voice I'm not sure if you know what it's like to have a child that can't speak when they're five years old. But it's very hard. So I'm here to be their voice for children into a room and. Excuse me. I keep hearing people say that private schools or other facilities don't deserve the funds but not children need to be where they are what is the school my children attend not deserve these funds also let me add that families that attend public or private schools and other facilities are not all wealthy I can personally say my family struggle to pay their tuition to try to make ends meet. Public school is not the best option for my children they would not offer my children interventions that are desperately needed although there IP speech O. T. and physical therapist it is not to the magnitude needed and the staff or student ratio would not meet what they need. I'm not sure if you've ever been in a room full of twenty autistic children a tear three teachers can it's not going to work it's not cut out. For those of you that say we only have one option it doesn't have to be that way this would allow growth to happen just because something is working doesn't mean it's adequate I commend all educators for what they do every day in all types of education now it's nothing short of amazing at the facility are chosen for my voice there is a constant intervention with lesson plans tailored to their specific needs these interventions are implemented by a group of highly trained therapists of all different disciplines they consistently have one on one intervention before my voice started this facility there currently and they could not communicate at all they're making great progress there will continue to need this type of environment not only does this school year ten emphasize on autism but we also have a variety of neurotypical children that needed to change. The top of Education way of learning is not available to extend it in public school setting I refuse to let them get lost any system hasn't properly trained for their disabilities my thoughts will not change for any future public or private school setting and this bill shall pass I am aware that if the bill passes in the language is not change private schools are not be required to meet the same standards as public schools for special needs children obviously I do think that we need to be changed but I also would not willingly send my child into a facility that's not fully trained to treat my child. This would allow schools like the one by Senator tender say the funding they desperately need everyone deserves issues a school they believe is best for their children why does it have to be one or the other my children deserve that and so much more parents should have the right to choose from diverse education for their child without costing us on factor no two children are in the same if you ever got the chance to meet my voice you would now because they both have autism and are complete opposites. So today when we leave here I hope everyone can agree that getting every child education they need to be able to live a happy healthy and successful life is what's important thank you. Representative garner you're recognized for a question do you know about the succeed scholarship deok at the sixties calling an we at that started this previous year for my children I believe we have to go different because my kids have it went to public school at all I think there's probably another option one of them I know that you have to it in public school and then go to a different facility. I could have it backwards but yes. Thank you. I see no other questions thank you for your testimony. Speak against the bill Trevor Macaire. To identify yourself for the record who you represent and you may begin your testimony. My name's Trevor Magar my father always told me at the end of my last name there is a silent here and there is silence years from teachers all across the state because of the Arkansas learns bill. One thing that public schools do not have the privilege of that home schools and private schools have is the ability to pick and choose who we have we get who shows up on our doorsteps whether or not we have the capacity to accept them in we still have to take them we don't have the luxury of saying that we can send them are you can't come because we don't have a seat available for you we have to find a way and this past year one of my co teachers she quit in the middle the school year because she routinely had classes with thirty two and thirty three students in there she had a hundred and eighty students at one point the school year because we could not get enough science teachers because there's not adequate funding for teachers she was X. at a point her life that she was able to leave teaching I because the mental toll was too much for her and as a result of that it causes a shuffle of the school we could not find another science teacher to fill that role they uprooted my classroom where I'm a computer science teacher at Searcy high school they took away one of my classes where I had twenty eight students in their half of them were special needs because computer science as a graduation requirement the state and they did not meet the threshold to mean that they could actually be exempt from certain requirements or other a revised version of that I had to teach them how to type and some of those kids couldn't even tell me what the letter a on the keyboard was. I'm tired of not having a voice I'm tired of a school testing our students to death from the time the inner kindergarten until the time they leave in twelfth grade they're tested two three four five times a year they're constantly being told they're not good enough. They're being told you're not good at math. We need to give you this extra help were pulling you out of your science class we're going to pull you out of your social studies class or the high school level of you can't take this elective class you can go to act and was working on a machine you're going to have to go take this res response intervention class because you need extra help in math. Those math class or those act classes and that sort of thing those are essential classes to the students those are the reasons they show up to class every single or to school every single day they don't come there to go to their math or English class where they're constantly told their best is not good enough because for some reason we have this obsession with T. or testing students over and over and over again and when you have twelve years of testing and every time you're told you're not good enough eventually you're going to stop trying and that is what's happening up high schools all across the not on the Arkansas but across the state high school students are stopping because ever since two thousand ten test scores across the state for a or the country for in eight U. P. have been in decline. I we've had of. Decades now of high stakes testing where students are being tested over and over and over and to what avail their scores are going down every year since the twenty ten scores have been going down across this country why because kids are realizing they are more than a score that is something that we know it's classroom teachers is that our students are more than just a test score unfortunately what happens is you get a piece of paper on your desk and it shows that they are this number on a piece of paper they mean so much more to us than a number on a piece of paper and we are here to advocate for all of those students not just the students because of we have a seat for you and we like you or you can afford to be here or something like that we are there for everyone we spend hours after our contract time the average teacher in this country works fifty four hours a week we're not compensated for that time we volunteer time beyond that I am a robotics coach for high school I am not being compensated for that I'm spending at least six hours a week getting ready for competition that we have this Thursday and Friday in Searcy. I'm. But that is time I'm not being compensated for and going back to this idea of over testing our kids I have a son who ever since kindergarten he has had speech a remediation he's always done just fine on his reading scores but this past year. At the start of the school year they did a test for his oral fluency is never shown up as being deficient in his reading ability but because of his speech issue and because of him needing to take this test that we're fascinated that we need to have all this data on the students. All right this one test because of his deliberate delivery of trying to enunciate words to overcompensate for his reading this or his speech disability he was penalized and he was told he was going to need to get remediation for is reading having that one data point that showed that his oral fluency was deficient and not his reading because all of his other test scores showed that he was reading and the very next day after you have that test he refuses to go to school. Why because he was labeled for having a deficiency that he knew he did not have he knew he can read but from that day on it's been a struggle to get him to do any work he is passage used to be passionate about doing school but because of a label because of one test in one point in time she's decided that. He didn't want to do the work anymore and this is happening all across the state with all of our students who have experienced this for years because of ours obsession with this and the learns Act puts or doubles down as we've heard earlier this morning doubles down on improving education how by constantly testing and constantly telling these kids they're not good enough and as teachers we want to advocate for students saying there was so much more than just a number on a piece of paper thank you Mr Garth thank you for your testimony any questions from the committee representative flowers you're recognized thank you thank you Mr just real quick I appreciate your passion in your perspective or can you tell us and I won't give a number but just what are some things that you think need to be done to address what you see maybe in the bill or in general thank the absolute thing is teachers are tired of not having a voice in the matter I would advocate that we have a teacher counsel for the state every school district in this state has a teacher representative someone that is an active teacher in the classroom be part of the legislative or maybe not the legislative process but be consulted to be able to have input for any sort of bill that impact public education because for decades now we have had to live with being mandated you're going to follow a no child left behind you're going to follows race to the top you have to teach this you have to teach it this way and we do not have a voice in that we are constantly told what to do and then we accept one hundred percent of the blame when it doesn't work even though the policy comes from politicians maybe not you exactly but politicians across this country that tell classroom teachers what to do and how to do it without other without having an active educators in the classroom being an active process in advocating for what should happen in the classroom we are the ones that are best qualified to say what and how things should be taught in our classrooms not someone that sits in a testing come. Any in a big office somewhere else that used to teach fifteen years ago. Represent McKenzie you're recognized for a question thank you Mr so I'm just trying to balance in the testimony receiving here today because we had a superintendent earlier said that we additional reading assessments would be needed now we're hearing from your testimony that we're testing children too too much so so in the event of a representative flowers question if not testing than what. I read the the assumption is that a teacher has no idea what happens in the classroom without a number on a piece of paper I'm here to tell you those teachers in the classroom no those students just as good as any piece of paper could tell you that piece of paper we'll tell you a snapshot in time it will not tell you if they went to bed hungry that night before but we can it will not tell you that in my case a student was up until four o'clock in the morning hoping to take care of the sick brother and sister because their mom had to work and then they have to try to come to school that day and take the test and so if they're taking that test that date that sleep deprivation members had nothing to do with them shows up there and so I that one snapshot in time but at the high school level there if in most cases they've already given up and they realize it's just a game so I would question the efficacy of those test scores anyways once they get to the high school level. Represent begins you're recognized for follow up thank you again and I appreciate your passion I don't think anyone on this committee would would doubt your passion and your love for your students but you're in a room with twenty people are going to decide the future of education yes and and what the bill that we have in front of us creates standard practice for how we're going to use benchmarking and aptitudes Norment normative it after two tests to greater children on I'd love to hear if it's not a test specifically is there anything else besides contextual understanding of your student base. That we should use or put into law to use to evaluate student performance and outcome I realize from a legislative perspective you need a nice neat little number but as we've heard several people say today there ACT ACT test score did not say or dictate the success that they've had in life and so yes I their test scores might be low but at NADP scores also show that students after the eighth grade actually make zero improvements in their math and English course does that mean that they've that teaching them algebra or geometry actually is not beneficial to them no there are other skills that they're gaining maybe not to hard math and science or math that scores there but to get back to your question as far as what we can do as far as that testing. All right I grew up in the air where we got tested month once every two or four years why can't we go back to something like that instead of something were tested multiple times each year to where a kid is constantly reminded that they're not good enough. I see no other questions we thank you Mr regard for your testimony thank you. Speak for the bill. We have Nikki beaver. Speaker. You identify yourself for the record and who you represent you may begin your testimony. My name is Nikki beaver and I will be reading testimony on behalf of Carol Harward she's a mother of four from Bentonville who was here with their son earlier but had to go. Good afternoon my name is Carol our word and I am here from that bill and a mother of four and I support SB two ninety four I want to thank all of those who have worked and worked tirelessly to bring this bill to this point your efforts do not go unnoticed. My children attend. A school which the state has given an a rating to it's a wonderful school with lots of wonderful teachers and a fantastic principal who all work under the stress of a very challenging administration I have a child who has significant learning challenges that don't necessarily have a name. I thought for two years to get the school to provide more services first and small group. The small group settings for my child who was noticeably behind his classmates with little success. The school cut the dancing him to the next grade even though he lacked basic reading fundamentals. Academic needs were not being that he failed to learn vital reading fundamentals early on which have carried it to other academic subjects I firmly support the right to read act and wish this was placed in play years ago when my son was young. Last year my son was concerned completed elementary school and was ill prepared for middle school after some more challenges and much heartache we decided collectively as a family to make tremendous sacrifices to enroll him in a small private school and have been repeat fourth grade at something the public schools denied. My A. rated public school was not a good fit for my son but thankfully we found a small school with extremely small classes where he is finally able to get the help that he needs to excel academically. Public schools are designed as a one size fits all having three of my children attend the same school last year I can attest that not every student that's into the public school systems mold. What might work for one child may not work for the other it's time we value each individual child and not the system. Parents the more options to put their children in a school that will fit his or her needs public schools are not equipped with the ability to satisfy every special needs child especially the ones that don't meet the mold of a few specific disabilities. Arkansas public schools are failing we need to set our standards higher and become more competitive it's time we come to terms with it and except to turn it around to continue doing what we've been doing is nonsense this education overhaul is exactly what Arkansas needs to build back our schools and offer a quality education that will help Arkansas students succeed and become career ready I support public education and I support SB two ninety four this bill will enhance public education and allow families to find a school that appropriately meets their needs and their child's means thank you I'm not prepared to answer questions for her okay. Thank you seeing no questions you are excused thank you for your testimony speak against the bill. Karen Walters. Squatters feel identify yourself for the record and who you represent you may begin your testimony. Thank you Mr chairman thank you committee Karen Walters superintendent private schools I want to thank you for taking all of the of public statements today I know you've had a long day and I appreciate it very much I did not speak last week at the Senate Education Committee because we were told that there were going to be some amendments and so I wanted to wait and see what came of that I would I would say the only amendment that was made that was substantial not a technical correction was the due process for teachers not I want to thank the sponsors of the bill for that proposing that back in the bill very much that is something we ask them to do more glad to see that back in I have just a few items that I would like to touch on today about the bill the first one I want to talk about is the of course choice section of the bill. I'm not really sure what that is I've read it about fifteen times and I'm sure not exactly sure what that means maybe when we see the rules will know more about that but I think that's what's kind of scary for us is is waiting for those rules to come out a couple of issues that I have with the course choice is that of first thing is if we have a set of C. D. or F. school our students at those schools can take a choice for another provider so if I'm a charter school and I'm a C. school in another section of the bill I can actually run another public school district finally see charter. I can enter into a contract with them the pharmacy charter but if I have a C. school of my twelve campuses that I have my twelve schools then I'm gonna have to pay for other courses so I think that there should be equity throughout the bill and if you need to see if a C. means that I need to pay for queue to take a class elsewhere that I don't think it's each order needs to be able to run someone else's District the other thing I'd like to talk about is the money in that section it talks about the one six and it says that they only have to be at the public school district for one period so I have a seven period high school so I could be in a situation where I had a student that took six classes from some other provider again I don't know what that looks like because there's not any details in the bill. But so if I had to pay for six classes I'm just giving away all my foundation funding and I still have that student for one period if they can take up to six classes I'm not sure why they're still or student the way we do it now with home school I get that at home schooled child that comes up they to play at Latics or maybe they take a peek course or something like that and we get that F. T. for that one period I mean I wish we could take school districts out of having to have the bureaucracy of of keeping up with that and and paying for those courses. The other thing I want to talk about spent most of my time time on is about the money for the teacher's salaries. Yesterday I ran the salaries for bright schools to try to look at. You know where we with the eighty percent. I ranted about five different ways because I'm not sure how that how they're going to pool those teacher salaries to see for at R. eighty percent. When I take out our building administrators salaries are operating salaries for teachers we are a little over a million dollars on the eighty percent so we're fairly close. On the ninth largest district in the state I'm sixty five hundred dollars above the minimum salary of this thirty six were forty two five. So it scares me very much to wonder what is that going to look like for these districts that are close to the thirty six thousand so I put my Hector superintendent had on which I was superintendent there years ago I haven't always been a large districts back most of my career was small districts. I put around the figures of what the staff that I had then and I couldn't make the numbers work and from very quick and again not knowing it seems to me if you don't have eight hundred students this is not going to work for you so I'm asking the the Committee I'm asking the bill sponsors whomever I don't know who I need to ask but we need to see how those numbers are being cold if we can see that and we can run those numbers we may be able to get behind this a hundred percent and stand stand beside you but when we don't put that out there and we're having to gas I don't think that that's fair to districts I don't think that that's you know fair to teachers I think that we we know how we're pulling those figures are I would think that you would because you have a fiscal impact statement so if we had the fiscal impact and we have to know how we pull those numbers the other thing I want to add is that German from the Apennine apologize it did not get your name he was not I don't believe he was lying when he said none of those categorical is will be cut but I think what you have to understand is you're not necessarily going to be race proportionately for the for the increases in salary and run I have almost three million dollars in federal salaries so if I have teachers that are going from forty two five and they're going to fifty thousand dollars seventy five hundred dollars times you know several teachers there's two or three teachers that I've been paying out of federal funds and now I'm going to have to move to my operating funds. At right my maintenance of effort that means the department tells me right you have to spend eight point seven million dollars on special education services before you can spend one dime of your federal dollars so I'm spending that much and that's also going to raise my maintenance of effort this waters your five minutes is up if you want to wind it up for you committee dealing issue for that the other thing I just wanted to add and I know I have no right no right to ask questions that I hope someone will is that I know race was talked about in the summer and and the discussion was that it needed to go through adequacy we needed to look look at it adequacy before we did the races I think there are several pieces in this bill that are going to impact school districts as far as money and I'm not sure that they've gone through adequacy and I think that councillors is one of those things or items in the bill you know the plans everyone on the plans is great the community service we're all for that my high school counselors are going to have to keep up with that guys because you've tied it to a graduation requirement it is totally unreasonable the ratio for cancers is four hundred and fifty to one and standards for accreditation I don't care the best counsel and the state guys cannot take care of four hundred fifty kids and that's what we have now thank you Sir yes ma'am a representative take questions yes Sir representative Dick you're recognized thank you Mr chair this questions actually for you it would it be possible for she asked a few questions or can they address an answer those or how do we get some of those answers if they do have them I'm intrigued SO questions offline of the. Regarding the questions from the definitely initiate a few others ahead of ahead of that as far as the funding pieces so just how do is you can get those off allow Mister Brecht I know he was talking about setting up a meeting tomorrow morning to answer any questions regarding funding could. May I ask go ahead I'm could maybe we get a list of those are some things that we know what those are specific I'm not gonna remember going on and he may have made notes so that's great if you have that or say Mister Brecht is probably made several notes. Yes. representative flowers you're recognized. I'll I'll ask you as the last time anyone in the room who is going to come up and and speak against I would appreciate for you to share not only your concerns but also you know what are some things that the bill's sponsors could consider to make the bill better or to erase some of those challenges and issues so I'm gonna ask you super intendant Walters what are if you could give us about three things that you think could could make the bill better or erase some of the challenges or issues that are of greatest concern to you thank you. As I stated I think if we can if we can see the funding It we have a it's called an annual student statistical report it's got a million columns in it if there if they are pulling the salaries that they're looking at from column eighty four on the A. S. or we call it if we can know that and again we can run those figures it may be fine so that I don't know that that really addresses the bill but I think it's. I think to be well I'm going to say if I got to be queen for the day and that we would put an amendment on it that said that everybody got the funds next year and next year would be the baseline because the other thing that I don't think it's fair about this is districts did not know that you know about federal funds. I have a lot of purchased services that I pay for private school district I pay for occupational therapy physical therapy speech therapy. I have a lot of money in special ed in title one in salaries and we do that because I cannot convey the bureaucracy of the federal programs and how much paper work we have to do. By putting salaries into those plans it makes it more simple because we have contracts for those individuals we we can we can you know we know what their benefits are. It's not quite as clean when we use purchase services you you don't know exactly what you're going to spend repeating NO T. so would you salaries so what I'm suggesting is not an ethical they are allowable expenditures but if we had known this districts could have said well I'm gonna put my purchase services in my federal funds and put the salaries and operating so I didn't have to worry about not needing that eighty percent. So I think one thing that can fix this with the salaries is we're all going to get funding next year and you have to make it work next year because it's going to be your baseline. So that's that that is a big thing I wish we could take Community Service far as a graduation requirement out of the deal. If we wanted to be a graduation requirement then we should make it a semester course I don't think it's fair for our kids of HIGHPOVERTY I have students that by the time they're not great they go from family members house a family members house they serve on friends couches they don't have transportation and I'm gonna be in a position where we saying are we taking them out of the class so that they can get their you know their hours and again it's you know again somebody else is going to have to check on that we have seven hundred seniors and so that's you know I'm probably gonna have to hire someone to check everybody's Of community service hours to make sure that they're in line because I don't want anybody not to graduate because of that You know the other thing I wish that the bouncers I actually will say that those had it had more credibility for private schools and what I thought it would have I think where it falls short is that I think if private schools take the money they should have to accept all students because it's not you know it's been said we talk about this bill that is for all kids no matter their zip code and I know we've heard from a lot of private schools today that they their mission is special education students but that is not the case for all. All private schools and I don't think it's fair to our families that if they do have a student with special needs and I've had those families that have come to Bryant and they tried to put their children and they were not accepted so I feel like if we're going to give public funds and all of our families should have that opportunity and I worry that it is not equitable access and we're I feel like that we are discriminating against those families students with disabilities. Representative McKenzie thank you Mr so kind of in the van of of represent flowers also want to ask ask something of all people they can participate or super super dense or mistreated is does Bryant school district currently benefit from school choice yes Sir okay I know that we have a lot to figure out in terms of apart policies follow up you're recognized thank you I know that have a lot to figure out of the main emphasis from your beginnings testimony was the the course choices still confusing and specifically between charters and public but I think it's important for us to to understand that and I'd love to hear your perspective how school choice has benefited Bryant since the beginning or the inception of you guys taking kids from outside of your district or from other schools that are low performing and do you think that I'll be at the the mechanism behind course choice is confusing and and might need some clarity for you to truly understand the efficacy next year in your school year how additional school choice for students not just limited by geography or immediate geography to Brian could benefit private schools. So. I have it right for nine years so I can speak about the last nine years. My first year there I was deputy superintendent and we failed millage and what we heard from our community when we went around afterwards and had meetings was that they were not going to pay additional taxes for all these people to come in that do not live here we heard that loud and clear. We were. We were so overcrowded that time we needed new buildings and had failed the millage that we we shut down the school choice if they had been our student they have been going to run and then moved out we let them stay but we did not accept new school choice kids the last two years our board has passed a resolution we accept a hundred and ten students a year we're trying to accept some students. We are in a position right now that we are needing to build some additions are high school and or junior high and I know you've heard about the facilities funding we're looking at over five hundred dollars a square foot right now and I can't go to our tax payers right now and ask for millage with what we're looking at in our economy so we're we're in a position that. We've never told anybody no they could not leave us I feel if you don't want to be there when we don't want to be there we want you to go where you're going to be happy but the incoming school choice makes me a little nervous because the state board is going to write the rules for that and over the last few years the state board has overturned the appeal of every parents wanted district has said no they didn't have space so that's a little concerning to me I know it was said on the Senate side when that was brought up that districts would not be forced to accept kids if they didn't have space I just hope we see that intervals. I see no other questions waters thank you for your testimony. Speak for the bill. Isla Campbell. Thank you Mr chairman I'm I'll Campbell live in Fayetteville and I'm a native our cans and I'm a wife a mother a grandmother a retired history teacher and I'm vice chair of Washington County moms for liberty when I was ten years old I first began my appreciation for the legislative process when I watched my dad be sworn in as an Arkansas state legislate tore and for the next thirty five years I watched him be committed to his constituency and to his community and so I applaud you all. The public forum is not very kind at times and I'm sure that your phone is blowing up and and I giving you evidence of that so I want to thank you for that. But I am here today voicing my support. Referred Senate bill two ninety four I have always been a supporter of public schools and I still am. And until a few years ago I was not a proponent of school choice. Being raised in a small community in Southeast Arkansas I am very much. A product of a small school and its community and I understand how important small schools are to their communities. School choice is not a condemnation nor an attack on public schools. I strongly believe it is a choice to provide a better education for all Arkansas children times have changed and many of the changes that were finding in our public schools are being described as progressive and necessary contributors to much needed fundamental and structural changes in American institutions cultures values and principles. Some of these changes are being met with a great deal of opposition. Questions and concerns. After being forced to respond to a four yeah my district manager to eleven thousand plus pages of documentation proving the presence of critical race theory in our schools now let me as a as a a history teacher defined for me from my perspective when I referred to critical race theory in this context it's talking about critical race theory's ideology being T. excuse me being taught as a prism through which instructional materials are developed school policies are created and values and the environmental culture of our schools are affected. This morning you should have received some documentation from this for you material that would substantiate my statements. It's difficult to mount a rebuttal claiming that absence of C. R. T. in our schools when professional development the finding its content is being built on the six tenants of critical race is presented to our teachers and administrators in the district. Or when teacher bill talks promoting America as a white supremacist nation are being read in our schools. Or. When a teacher's email voice is their concern over the effect of changing classroom focus from record in marriage to one of equity and then increasing the number of minority students in AP classes regardless of preparedness. What an injustice to those students and what an academic corruption of Advanced Placement classes. The goal of increasing minority participation in AP classes is certainly one that we should all have and work toward however to do so we must do a better job of preparing our students to meet their academic potential not lower academic standards in the name of equity. Rather we raise academic standards of instruction we listen to our teachers and parents about how best to challenge every student. And we do this in a learning environment that values self determination and achievement we also promote individual responsibility with the goal of dreaming your dreams and attaining them. We're spending more money than ever before per child and the results have not produced overall student success. The status quo is no longer acceptable. The last few years we have seen a decline in school writings in student achievement scores across our state yet well our kids are behind academically schools are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars focusing on diversity equity and inclusion plans that are embedded with critical race ideology shaping curriculum ms Campbell yes your time is up if you'd like to finalize AS one yes I will so what I would say to you is that. Achieving equity must not be our goal in the public education ram but it must be achieving equal opportunities and Ebeling every student to accomplish and reach their individual potential school choice is a major step in achieving that and I now ask you to support Senate bill two ninety four this can we we take questions I will miss represent Charlene Fite you're recognized thank you for your testimony I'm just curious as to your father's name in B. barfi thank you. Representative flowers you're recognized. Thank you for your. Remarks I'm just wondering as someone who was a history. teacher. How. I don't even know where to start As a history teacher and you have spoken about your concerns with regard to could ever call race theory and giving your your definition. Of it but as critical race theory is At a legal. largely illegal and academic theory Mostly taught in of law schools I mean that's what we're aware of. How is it that you believe as a history teacher that any theory should be banned from discussion or thought I don't believe I said that I would like to clarify I don't think I use the word band Norton but I ever support that my point on critical race theory not think someone take exception with you with your definition of it being only in legal circles and in higher institutions because we we thing that change that has been a change that's where it started yes but what I'm talking about is the critical Rice ideology that is now being used in many schools as the prism and the premise three which educational and academic courses and curriculum are being developed that to me is I buys that is not teaching our children how to how to think but what to say to me that is indoctrination as a history teacher I taught all the isms. Communism socialism we talked about all these legends part the isms yes and what I'm saying is is that critical race theory has now come up we would talk I would teach critical race theory as a theory but I would not use it as a lens through which I would A create my instruction in the classroom I think that that something that is taking place I see that in my school district and I have evidence to show that follow up Sturch you're recognized for follow up I'm I didn't try the I guess. Restate something you stated I'm just basing my question on the fact that the Bill. Bands. A chorus the airy and. As a history teacher who I imagine. Has taught the history of the enslavement of people of jim crow of the oppression against women of of laws. That. Really validated and made legal lynchings of people or preventing people from being able to vote. I'm just wondering. How. Understanding those different aspects of history in the world and history in this country. How you would state. That it but equity is not important and critical to educating children and that equity should be a goal when You know Division and inequity and racism and sexism has clearly been an integral part of the history of the country whether or not you believe it's systemic and we can argue about that I'm just wondering as a history teacher understanding that that has been a part of the history. You know how you would testify that. Equity is somehow. Not inextricably tied to wrecker. One of our up one of our teachers from the high school voiced concerns about the fact that as equity becoming more of a focus in our district there was a reduction in did and in vigor in rigor and merit in our classroom and I'd like just to point out that There's a misunderstanding by many and and I respectfully acknowledge that we may have a different perspective but equity in quality is not the sign. As the as determined Campbell yeah I'm gonna cut you officer. This is turning into a debate on the definition of critical race theory between you and representative flowers and that's not speaking for the bill or against the bill signed I agree so we're going to stop there see no other questions thank you for your testimony yes thank you. To speak against the bill Hayden. Shamil. I apologize if I pronounce that last name wrong. You'll lose yourself for the record and who you represent the will start time you may begin your testimony. Your punch a button please. There you go thank you thank you representative eleven thank you to the members of this committee thank you to the educators that are here today to testify right now I'm a teacher and for those of you who don't know me I am from South Arkansas originally I currently reside in hot springs I have taught in Arkansas schools my entire career It's hard to follow the last Speaker. I'm here to represent the way teachers feel and I really. To speak to you today I really want you to feel what we are feeling as a result of the bill. Teachers are angry. We're heartbroken. We're insulted and we feel betrayed and I want to start with as being angry the reason we're angry is because we have been constantly asked to do more with less. When COVID hit. We went home we taught on zoom often times to the detriment of our own children. When we came back in person we talk all day long in a mask to the students that were in our classrooms and we taught simultaneously to the students that were at home we we did three jobs for when salary. Three may be an understatement here. And we came back and yes our our test scores not good right now yes it's the product of the situation the context everything that has gone on in the world but. For us to come back to a bill that has language in it in public people in the public who think that we are actually teaching critical race theory when ninety nine percent of our faculty don't even know what it is to accuse us of indoctrination when we are teachers Whitworth's city school teachers you all I mean. You know. This reminds me of a biblical passages I I hate to bring religion into argumentation I really do because I teach against it but it I know that a lot of you probably recognized out of the book of Matthew chapter twenty one. When Jesus topple the tables out of righteous anger. He said he said he said this is my house it is written that this is my house and you would have made it into a den of thieves that is what this bill feels like for every single educator because what we actually know the reason that we're heartbroken we know that this is not about education this is not about our kids it's about money it's about. And I want to say this. We know what's going to happen we know what's going to happen to our rural schools to places there's that to the school districts that can't make it we're going to see those schools have to shut their door and I just want to say this and I know each and everyone of you in this room knows this because you represent communities all across this state our schools in the small communities our schools or the communities the communities are the schools and there is no job that is harder than being a teacher I worked a lot of different jobs but I have spent my entire career choosing to be in the classroom I could have gone into a lot of other lucrative for professions where I earned a lot more money than I do now but for for us to even think of capping teacher salaries at two thousand dollars a meager two thousand dollars above what we're currently making and no hope of a better tomorrow economically that is really hard first someone in any career for us to be able to stomach. What do we have to look forward to you I mean what do you happen to retain the best and the brightest teachers and I want to say this you know one of those highly qualified teachers one of those teachers that hasn't me an advanced degree one of those teachers who is going to I will qualify for this incentive pay I promise you that I'm a highly effective teacher my students perform but I'm here today to speak against the bill and the reason I'm here to speak against the bill is because. You doing us any injustice and not just to teachers you're doing an injustice to our kids you're doing an injustice to Arkansas if we have to see the schools shut down what's left what's left of rural Arkansas we work Florida we can't base our decisions based on other places we got to do what is best for Arkansas and I really want to address what representative flowers has ask your your time is up if you want to kind of tighten it down. There a lot of things that you could D. I'm you know I want to say. We calm down. Obviously this This Is Your fix my life. There a lot of things we can do to help. Schools and. If I were to make any suggestion. Page fifty nine of the original bill section thirty two. Calls for removing the cap on the minimum number of students you heard a previous teacher testify how it teacher left to meet here because she was so overwhelmed with students and constantly had more students than she could handle you also heard any other teacher had testify that reducing class sizes is one of the things that you could do to help us that particular section on page fifty nine I would argue we need to eliminate I would also say there things affected things that we know have worked if we could find it universal pre K. if we could also incentivize after school and summer school programs those would go a long way at closing the gap between academics in poverty that would help a huge amount of I feel for the people is not justified by disabilities I want to say also in Maryland schools if they don't want to meet the student's IEP they will find private school tuition and so I just I urge you you all to do what is right do what's right for the people of your district don't don't just vote based on a power nod for years from now do what's right for Arkansas okay thank you for your testimony. Speaker for the bill heather Turchi. Sturch if you'll introduce yourself for the record he represent you may begin your testimony Hey I might take it down a couple notches. Good afternoon my and thank you Mr chair and members of this committee for allowing me the opportunity to speak. My name is heather Terry she and I'm speaking on behalf of the thirteen thousand three hundred and ten voters of Senate district fourteen. The five thousand three hundred seventeen voters of House District seventy five which is here in Little Rock. Last week Senator flowers gave one of the most heart wrenching testimonies about kids trapped in impoverished areas with No Way Out. I to have parts of my district where we are facing the same issues. Last fall in canvassing for my bid for state representative one thing I continue to hear from minority parents is that they wish their kids had more options. Instead their kids are trapped in an F. rated school with twenty six percent of the children reading at grade level. Little Rock closed out two thousand and twenty two with eighty one homicides which surpassed the record height of seventy six and nineteen ninety three. How do we get to this point. Why are we getting worse. We continue to pour more money into a broken education system yet we wonder why Little Rock is when the deadliest cities in America. Is it of teaching curriculum that would advance our kids little rock school district held a teachers workshop online black males are dangerous. The privilege first a press society also have documentation backing that out that a teacher had sent me. We can't address crime when our students are being taught that no matter how much they try to succeed they will never measure up based on their skin color. We can't talk about Kanemi creating jobs are moving away from government dependency without it being labeled racist. This is my city this is my whole. People and businesses are leaving the city due to surging crime rates high taxes and poor public education options. Slowly becoming in your prime plus. We are failing our kids by not giving them every opportunity to break the chains of poverty violence. As focusing on the can't. Let's focus on the can. Let's focus on the one thing that matters the most graduating kids that can read at grade level and teaching them how to think not what to think. Everything and I mean everything starts with education. We all have different ideas on what that should look like but what we all can agree on is that the system is broken and we need to change this bill allows that change. It allows that single mom my district who always dreamed of giving her young child access to a world class education. It will give that child who is dyslexic but didn't qualify for IP an opportunity to attend a specialty school such as my nephew. Over the past three years I have heard the all stories and outcries for teachers and parents were begging for change. This is about our kids this is about our future and one that said I ask that you vote in favor of SB two ninety four thank you. Thank you for your testimony we take questions yes Sir representative flowers you're recognized. Thank you of it you may or may not know I'm a representative L. and hail from boring in pine bluff Arkansas yes ma'am and I will I just heard a little bit of what you were saying coming and I won't waste time to try to challenge back and forth but what I'd ask you is how with this bill help the public school district in particular since you talked about well idea of what I think school choice is going to look like would be a CVS Walgreens set up okay you have competition you know you have options as to what you can pick from so I think we're going to have is the because we're already seeing this happening in other areas a Baptist prep is already set up satellite offices are satellite schools Sheraton and North Little Rock I think we're gonna have is options that are going to be moving to your areas such as pine bluff to give these kids a better option. So make sense follow up yes go ahead of your. Thank you thank you Mr to present your diligence you're recognized thank you Mr chair of no it doesn't make sense because what I'm I guess ask you about is. Separate and apart from our perceptions I'm. Basing my question strictly on the bill. And so aside from perceptions about you know what the needs of crime was cool District another districts might be. Since you're referencing pine bluff how would in and let me give you a little bit of information we not only have Two high schools in it in within the public school district we also have charter schools in pine bluff and So with those options as well as the current of school choice environment that we operate in now as well as parents who currently have the option of home schooling their children. Obviously this bill would change that with regard to programming pilot programs and If founded funding from that freedom Fund for private schools and home schooling so I'm specifically asking you since you mention pine bluff how this bill if we pass this bill specifically how would it help pine bluff based on your perception of what timeless challenges are well I think we are currently seeing upon life as being a crime ridden city just like little rock. And schools I'm sorry I'm just no I understand and what I'm saying that my question is that. We need options okay you're saying that you have options but those options working. Well I'm asking you censure testifying and you mention pine bluff how this bill would help pine bluff because you know by bringing more options to that area by bringing quality education and giving those parents adoption. Giving them more options does that make sense and I actually wasn't very much as to to to pine bluff was referring to Little Rock thank you. I see no other questions thank you for your testimony okay thank you. To speak. Against the bill. Jesse B. cannon. To see if you'll identify yourself for the record in. Smith who you're representing and you may begin your testimony. My name is Jesse Buchanan I'm a teacher at Fayetteville high school. Growing up I attended schools all over the state from little rock to Star City to Van Buren and I spent my teen years and it and I graduated from Greenbrier high school. I got my degrees in math education and leadership in ministry from Harding university in Searcy I've seen as a student how public and private schools across the state work I'm also a child of two public school educators and I become one myself so today I speak for my entire family including my brother who teaches high school English my cousins who work in public schools and my late aunt Julie Burton who worked in a small rural school in north Arkansas for her entire teaching career. My parents actually try to stop me from entering this field because they knew from personal experience that I would be undervalued and mistreated as a teacher in spite of the fact that they were rights I have thoroughly enjoyed my job for the past few years and do not regret a single decision that led me to this point the connections I made in the community I participate in with my students and co workers are more than worth it. As a math teacher though I teach a lot of pattern recognition I'm gonna try to do my students proud by pointing out the patterns that I see in this bill. This bill raises teacher minimum pay but removes incentives for experienced teachers and highly educated teachers to remain in their profession this continues a pattern of focusing only on teacher recruitment and never on teacher attainment meaning that there is no long term investment in education as a profession and of course no incentives for teachers again certification to work with students with disabilities or students who are learning English as their second language. This bill directs public funds towards private entities which will make meeting the needs of those remaining in public schools much more difficult especially in small and rural districts which already struggle to do so as private schools are mostly religious entities these organizations will not be held accountable to the same standards as public schools and will be able to further segregation and discrimination in our state which is a shame for a state that prides itself on its historic participation in the desegregation of schools. This also does nothing to help the school like mine that is privileged and still has a twenty two percent homeless rate. It removes to the teacher for dismissal at which gives the state even more power to remove any teacher of from their position if they so choose regardless the fact that its creators have spun it as ability empowers local districts. These parts of the bill suggests that sponsors do not care about their teachers especially veteran teachers particularly in rural areas which compromise the vast majority of our state. Finally the way in which this bill has been rushed through the legislative process regardless of the pattern by which every public school teacher that has spoken in session has asked you to make changes or hold off on passing the bill declares one more point. All public school teachers in our state regardless of party affiliation know that this bill is bad for us and worse bad for our kids. We are so certain about that we are here to protest our own pay raises in some cases up to fifteen thousand dollar pay raises. The fact that it has been rushed through by it sponsors who refused to listen to our account for public concern implies that you all know that it is bad for us to and I know that most if not all of you profess to be Christians and were sworn into office with your hand on the Bible so I hope that you will do the right thing and stop this bill if not I hope you can sleep soundly at night because you believe that god has enough grace and mercy to forgive you for turning your back on the teachers and students you swore in office that you would serve. Any questions for the witness. C. nine thank you for your testimony Sir. You are recognized representative flowers hi at at I did appreciate your remarks and I you didn't get an opportunity to share specifics with what you think could make the bill better or address your concerns thanks. I would remove the inflammatory language surrounding critical race theory which is apparently highly debated topic that not a lot of our Kansans understand the definition of I would also remove the inflammatory language surrounding the LGBTQ community which I think will increase lead to increased targeting of our LGBTQ students who already are at the highest risk of suicide of any group of students in the entire state I would also reinstate that you're for dismissal act because removing that does nothing except put a target on every teachers back who is trying to stand up for their kids regardless of the fact that they may be seen by someone as indoctrinating their kid if they're looking out for someone and trying to provide equity they may be seen by some people in their community as doing too much for one group and not another because sometimes we have to help those who are already disadvantaged. Thank you. Thank you for your time. K.. To speak for the bill and a hopper. Sabar fuel identify yourself for the record you represent you may begin your testimony. Hello. Hello I am Anna hopper I am the vice chair of the Arkansas federation of teenager publicans. as Pearson said earlier at our last convention we passed a resolution to support educational choice this was a resolution which passed unanimously among all of our groups from around Arkansas. This bill C. is our main concerns and and. Values in educational choice for field. Especially if money following the child. I know from personal experience that different children that require a different educational paths. I graduated from high school at fifteen. I graduated my associates and business arts at seventeen and I walk in may with my business my bachelors in business administration at eighteen hopefully I will start law school in August at ninety. All of this started with me being home schooled. Which might go against some assumptions some people have about home school is that they're not well educated or or their parents might let them slack off so they won't it she does much. I. I am a student. Who has a disability. I am visually disabled. And from what what my doctors can tell I have never seen better than twenty fifty. This includes things like visual signal I require at large prints of working for long periods in front of computers without brakes can stress my eyes out and make it really hard for me to learn anything. Realistically if the things that I have achieved so far in my education I could not have done that by being in a public school in a traditional classroom. I had the privilege to pursue these things because my parents were able to both pay the taxes that they pay and pay for additional classes private and. A in a variety of other resources and tutors and those kinds of things to help me come this far. Not everyone has that ability to find different forms of education for those who need it. So I think that this bill is important so that we can all in Arkansas all students have the same opportunity to pursue their education regardless of their zip code or their financial situation in a way that submitting to them. Members any questions for miss hopper. C. nine thank you for your testimony to speak against the bill Jake Buchanan. You can. You'll identify yourself for the record in who you represent you may begin your testimony thank you Mr chairman I'm Jackie cannon I may tenth grade English teacher at bright high school afternoon my name's Jackie cannon like I said I teach it right high school tenth grade English I'm a product of the Arkansas public school system I've been teaching for six years now I was raised that when you see something wrong you stand up and you work to fix it I now teach my students this my classroom. I can no longer sit silently without a saying the future of Arkansas education. I'm also a husband a father to two kids in a provider for my household. I currently work two jobs to support my family I still struggle to make ends meet each month. I make a little under what the minimum salary will be raised to and here I am testifying that we don't pass it. Yes I'm pro testing race for myself sure on paper it sounds rate. Did you get high pay to attract talent from all over the country however that's where many educators stories will begin and end. With no incentive for longevity in the teaching profession this will lead to an even larger teacher shortage in our state not to mention the fact that our profession is one where many people are qualified yet many people are already walking away from it. Teachers should be rewarded for their continued service and building of skills. There is no longer an incentive for teachers to gain post graduate education to the fact that they will only be compensated for that should there districtbe able to do so or choose to based off of merit. There's no telling what this could do for concurrent credit courses for high schools across the state who have teachers who have master's degrees. A. The fact that private institutions will receive public school funding despite not being held to the same standard as public schools is astounding. The fact private schools can pick and choose what students they want to accept is continuing his continuing hidden forms of segregation due to socio economic statuses is abilities and differences in religion. Despite the fact that many of these institutions claim to be Christ centered there seems to be a lack of let the little children to come unto me attitude. The following quote comes to mind when thinking about this bill it is easier to hide behind forty atrocities than one single event. The many problems with this bill have been used to distract educators in several directions in an attempt to prevent a United front. From ending the fair teacher dismissal lacked Belcher's teacher pay inequality amongst evaluation and I could go on. This is no more evident than seeing members of governor Sanders office taking time out of their day to attack teachers on social media for speaking up for themselves the way this bill has been rushed through legislation and cat behind closed door until forty hours before its vote has bewildered educators not only in our state but across the nation. If our governor really wants to make Arkansas great place for great teachers start by listening to them. If you want to make life better for teachers and education listed the people have worked at the longest a great leader is a servant to the people you cannot continue to ignore the voices of those who will be impacted by this bill the most. You can take questions its members any questions forms began. C. nine Sir thank you for your testimony every time next to speak for the bill Carter cavernous. In. Cavernous fuel produce yourself for the record you may begin your testimony. My name is Carter cavernous I'm thirteen years old and I am a resident. Road. Sorry I can't pronounce it Ferreira's academy. Thank you committee for allowing me to speak I am in support of this bill because kids can learn at their own pace some kids are too fast for schools they want to speed through the school working two or three hours some kids are too slow for schools they need to a five minute break between every subject some families can't afford to let the their kids learn at their pay is and this bill will allow all kids to learn in the best way for them when I was able to finally start home schooling after my parents secretary face to me is that happen I developed a love for reading. This is this was a subject I was really struggling with before home schooling. Because I was able to earn my own pace I am now reading above grade level. Thank you. Thank you members any questions. C. nine thank you Sir for your testimony speak against the bill Alice and Sweatman. Can you maybe give you limited yourself for the record and the representative may begin your testimony great thank you so much my name is Allison sixty so I'm and I'm representing myself I am a mom to two kids with disabilities here in central Arkansas I'm also a licensed social worker and my career began as a special education advocate before I studied special education policy and parental mental health at the graduate level. I've worked with hundreds of parents in Arkansas and beyond to help them learn to advocate for their child according to their rights under the individuals with disabilities Education Act or ID a law. I D. a law offers children protections from exclusion in education and it's badly needed it was not even fifty years ago when Congress found that one million children in our country were being denied an education on the basis of their disability alone and these protections continued to be needed in order for students to access their education my work as an advocate has allowed me the honor of helping parents understand their rights and responsibilities according to IDC a law and sitting with their education teams to collaborate the best plan for their child. It was often hard emotional work for every parent as well as the teachers and administrators and therapists and everyone at the table I have long known that the system needs to be changed. I've seen frustrated parents pulled their child from school in an attempt to home school them making serious financial sacrifices to their family's financial stability and their child's academic and social progress others have had no choice but to become resigned to their child's needs not being met. In our under resource system this instability is unsustainable and it exists not because public schools and teachers are inherently bad educating our kids but because the funding resources and support for special education have been starved and ignored year after year in the State of Arkansas. We need change for these families but there are better ways than than what this bill does not your programs like this have only rarely and with weak language offered and insured IDA protections for students with disabilities Arkansas has an opportunity to change that to be one of the first states with the best support if we're gonna have choice like this we can offer it to kids with disabilities we can be the first state to really do it. Regardless of their educational needs or the setting in which their parents choose for them to be educated without the protections offered in ID a law students with disabilities and their families will not have the choices that are typical peers it was asked if private schools can turn away students on the basis of their disability and the answer is yes the answer is yes and with all due respect everything that comes with that yes is meant to make us okay with discrimination in education and we don't have to be it seems as though we're being told to believe in the good will of private entities whenever we're asking for the accommodations that our children need and professional experience and historical records show that disabilities children with disabilities will be excluded. If the school was kind enough to then create a plan the parent has no legal recourse for when that plan is not followed so even if the school does create that plan. It's not the same as this bill as currently written many not all but many parents with disabilities will be choosing between these three situations one keeping their child in and under resource poorly funded public school classroom where at least their educational rights must be upheld and they'll have that legal recourse to using voucher funding for other schooling options if their child is admitted and then they sacrifice these accommodations and legal recourse for when the accommodations are not held or three pulling your child from school altogether to home school which completely turns many family's lives upside down financially and otherwise. I've seen some have said that vouchers allow students with disabilities to go to schools that were specifically created to meet their needs but the facts don't support that this is the case in Arkansas there are over sixty thousand students accessing special education or related services in our state. In public schools in our state excuse me what happens when the right school fills up what happens when the voucher amount does not cover the cost of tuition what happens when they think they found the right private school but the child's disability becomes more than the private school is willing or able to accommodate they will have sacrificed their rights at that point what happens when they do not live in proximity to a school that is equipped to meet their needs the answer is the vast majority will be back in public school in the public school will be under resource even more than it was before. Without robust investment in public education public at a public special education funding excuse me and without the protections of ID a lot in all settings students with disabilities will not have equal access that we are talking about from this bill and I know I'm almost out of time I have one more thing to say it's clear it's clear that we want more choice in education is the will of this body. And if we want educational choice educational freedom then that needs to be true for every child in Arkansas and I hope that I've shown how that's not what's going to happen with the system that's being set up in this bill and I'll be happy to take any questions thank you any questions for the witness. Representative garner you're recognized for a question you Mr chair I just have some clarification tell me what happens if a. If the students with benefit with with the idea of benefits. Goes to another school that's not private that doesn't have to. Provide those. Services and they need are you may lose their benefits or or your benefits what well be lose their the again the legal recourse for the the accommodations that they require in order to access their attic and their education those are not required like a private schools are required to meet the needs of that child to access their education many many do have such do you have a way is that they've set up plans and and the way that they're gonna meet those needs some of those are like services like an actual therapist coming in and whatnot some of it is modifications to curricular things like that but again if those are not being met and we get to the end of the road that child and that back in the public school. Great do not happen many times I've worked with I worked in private school settings as well to work on some of those plans it's just different because there's not a federal law dictating that those plans are followed. Thank you very much. Seeing other questions as well thank you very much for your testimony speak for the bill Thurlow Cobb. This. Copyright if I yourself for the record who you represent you may begin your testimony. Are there okay I represent a twelve year old and six year old nephew and niece as well and also for boys who did grow up in the little rock area in our products of a public school education and so I am for the bill of for several reasons but number one is this. I understand. No matter what bill we pass or don't pass okay and still is not make a difference in the situation of unengaged students. Or unengaged parents first of all we have to start there to help solve a lot of the problems we're discussing today bill won't do that. Now what a bill can do is to improve the situation of the status quo you've got some rockstar kick tail public school systems and schools all over the state they're really doing a great job in effect people are voting with their feet voting with the driver can't thirty minutes across town our right to get into those schools then there are some that does not get the job done and what I'm going to various committees I work in the financial industry I also volunteer with jumpstart which is organization it investors of financial literacy for you and we're in a lot of schools okay in a lot of schools and when I'm in eleventh grade or twelfth grade class and and there's maybe twenty twenty five students and no one came within thirty seconds to a minute tell me with seventy two divided by nine is what I want to calculator that's a problem okay so what is the solution what the bill is not going to fix everything at one time in fact this may just be step one of many okay what does it do well is teacher pay raises at whatever level of good thing or bad thing will my peas it's a good thing now disease works that it sounds like we may need to speak there but that's a good thing yes providing more resources like the reading coaches and all the other resources that are going to be around the state to enhance education Hans looters is that a good thing or bad I think that's a good thing. Does making sure that we look at performance as a way to create competition in this is not just about public school versus private school it's also public school versus public school it is it is are these guys gonna does are these guys get it done it's not always going to be the the jeopardized only public school it runs a home schooled and and and charter schools that kind of thing. Competition is a great thing last but not least here's what I've been hearing all day today. The number one key sticking point both sides is the concerns about the finances only raw organ financial issue one is very important. But what I have not heard enough of today in my opinion okay is what about students and parents now here's a bill without great educators in place properly equipped properly funded they need the tools they need to do what they need to do. But we're not putting students and parents number one in this process I think we're missing the aim of the bill can be between the may better yes but saying no is that going to get our situation better across the state in my opinion is no. I will progress. Any questions for. Representative flowers you're recognized thank you Mister chair Mister Cobb you were in your remarks earlier you said that looks sounds like there may need to be some tweaking. What are some of those tweaks that you think need to be made absolutely absolutely so act and it sounds like there's some concerns about exactly how do you reward educators on the no more experienced in their career to be able to feel like they still have sent to G. that's something everybody should look at that that's a that's a great thing doesn't mean kill the bill it means work to make those two weeks this is not law yet that's why we're having this here today that's why everybody's here today see kill bill means we just do not. And doing nothing doesn't advance now. Are things in this bill that are good cause I welfare just everybody here state there's a lot of stuff a lot okay great let's put the estimate let's meet whatever tweaks we need to make Hey let's do something in action means another ten or fifteen years of lost kids I'm also for boys I have a younger brother that I know for a fact now I don't know what those choices would have been having some additional choices would definitely help them achieve better academically what about about a committee set out to get the table with families we always have this guys is like this not just the last couple years sometime over the last decade. Look at I'm a minority if you can tell okay but here's the deal when I sit down with a lot of minority families we just haven't what I want to discuss it right well I don't know amendment with C. and I witnessed what I wish you lived in this town twenty minutes where whatever because I know the schools are better there but then I you know is is the difficulty leases Bill Gates is moving in the right direction in actually gets us nowhere. Follow up you're recognized for follow up thank you Mr. So you were saying you said that we did need to kill the bill that there is a process in place but I'm wondering what your thoughts might be if those tweaks were not made at all and or if there were other things that need to be tweaked that you weren't aware of would you still feel like it would be to the responsibility of this committee to move it out anyway. I'm going to use an analogy if you allow me to answer that question. If I'm hungry to have even for a couple days and someone places a hamburger front of me okay now personally I don't like cheese on a burger okay of this is me by personal practice but if I haven't eaten for a couple days. Burger finally don't like cheese but do I. burgers of maybe don't like pickles okay but if you like burgers if it if there's no other option at least like that better I've I've seen better than not eating what I'm feeling when I'm talking to a lot of of folks in the committees I serve is that. And in perfect bill moving in the right direction is better than nothing taking place and nothing ever changes again I'm I just turned fifty years old I grew up in of public education I'm also for boys there were things are broken then they have not been fixed and I said this bill is going to fix all that but it definitely is a step in the right direction. Representative Hodges you're recognized for a question thank you Mr you mentioned I'm over here. The you mentioned the tweak that you might suggest be made in a few hours of references as well a veteran teachers. Are you aware that the bill has been amended does still require districts to have a salary schedule so that veteran teachers would still be able to receive an increase over time in adult the district would have that flexibility to decide what that sell salary schedule would be. Yes I'm aware that will with the sounds of it was because of concern from some the educators here is as to some of the specifics of that so I'm just saying it just wore us to be able to you know just got a look at that and see if there's some approve this could be may maybe maybe that but again the point I'm making is at least that's what we're here talking today so that if there's a minor adjustments whatever that might be messed with that would be with those miners doesn't give be made Hey let's talk about that make this something this this is good as it can be for everybody no one's gonna like old fifteen toppings on the pizza okay you don't have one you want to pull up but what I'm saying is not eating is also not an option. Just wanna clarify thank you thanks Mr. Represents large you want back in. No okay. Scott thank you very much for your testimony. To speak against the bill. Joyce Elliott. Sell it if you will. Although you need no introduction. You will introduce yourself for the record any representative may begin your testimony thank you Mr chair I am Joyce Elliott former state senator former public school teacher for thirty years two of the best jobs in privileges I've had in my life to do those two jobs and I just also also and by the way a graduate of Willisville high school class of my graduating was like a class with class of nine so don't say to me I don't know rule ever ever nine people my graduating class always in the top ten that's the best part always. I will I want to start I was just an overall statement that something that really bugs me that we keep talking about competition and it's just seems as if we need to grasp that public schools were never meant to be a business and they are not businesses. Public schools should be and try to be about cooperation not competition that way everybody can work together and get more done but when we hit one public school against another we're going against the very meaning of the in public because if you are a business you're in the business nine times out of ten I hope to make money that's a huge distinction in the way that we behave in these two institutions so public schools for the public good and I I think that's really important for us to remember. Also I want to say something about efficiency. We have just so much money and we're right here and now trying to figure out how we're going to pay for what we have put on paper and we're not sure about the constitution does require us. To have an E. sufficient efficient educational system. I don't know how you make this efficient when most of the time we have this this big thing now about right sizing most of the time to be efficient you are trying to write songs and it doesn't mean closing anything in this situation but what it does to me is that you're going against the whole idea of efficiency if you take the school once you have now and so scattershot a whole bunch of schools under and spend the money in ways that we don't even know how many ways we're talking about spending it and how many schools that's not efficient why is that so important because there's so many people have pointed out if we were to the site because we have to be responsible for a free public adequate efficient education and we were to decide. No things are not all they should be in the public schools nobody thinks that and every time somebody comes up here and says somebody's trying to uphold and defend the status quo that is just false that is not the case because nobody is so obtuse. And missing and what's happening to save the public schools don't need some changing what if. We said okay we got we're going to use our money efficiently and we're going to decide to do what we should and must to to make sure our public schools serve everybody well a few more points about that. If we continue to say something that is not accurate such as this it's a one size fit all have you been to a public school lately public schools are not one size fit all. They are not. That's why public schools serves so many different kind kind of kids no matter what the issue is and the other thing about that one size fit all you know is a great talking point but is not reality. And if the public schools are not addressing everybody's needs that's where the efficiency comes in to help us do it because we are required to do it and we should do it and that's not what happens in this bill. Every child can learn. I hope nobody ever feels the need to have to say that that is so offensive to me because generally we started this thing about every child can learn we're talking about black kids as if it were a discovery how is that important to this conversation. The kids and generally that's who we're talking about we talk about black kids being trapped this is offensive trapped in the neighborhood that I live and and so many other people do live in why are they trapped. What about the zip code that's a fancy way of talking about this that make it seem as if as if this is all about black kids and poor kids. So if you're thank. These kids are trapped in a zip code that only has bad schools you're wrong if you think you I have assume you're you okay within this taken some of these kids under the strap schools and put them over here somewhere and say now we've done it what we don't have the convenience of doing people who live in the zip codes and people who are in public schools we don't have the convenience of going yeah we're going to take some modern put a mobile your bill what about the rest of them to thing I always ask how it yes your time is okay I will wrap up real quickly Mr chair thank you Sir. It is about the zip code it is not one size fits all it is not about funding so our students not systems unless you're gonna fix systems it is not about competition it is not about defending the status quo and is not about anybody not be an innovative Mr please may I just ask do this one thing because I know somebody is sitting there thinking this you are here twenty years yes I was sent I busted with everything I had to make sure we did have schools that were just the status quo and that we didn't innovate for twenty years I worked at this. And if you if you want to know what I did I just want you to know you can ask me because I brought receipts of what I've been doing thank you. Thank you what are your questions I don't yes. You can say I don't want to go you know I was going to say I don't know but I'll take a question is this year I was just kind of getting out this year yes ma'am representative flowers you're recognized thank you Mr chair just a couple quick questions can you talk a little bit more ACT I actually had written down one size fits all going to ask you about that can you talk since you have this experience not only as a classroom teacher but also as a policy maker can you talk a little bit about what that means that it's we don't have a one size fits all so can you talk to us here and folks in the audience about some of the diversity and some of the distinctions that exist in our current public school system yes I can I can talk about that real quickly from being a teacher and then also from as a legislator when I was a teacher and I was at Robinson high school it was a great place to work and it was one of those good examples one size not fitting all and that the example I use is kids who had disabilities all the way from somebody happy to change diapers to the kids that I would and could make sure we included in the student council it was that kind of thing. The only way we could have made that schoolwork is guess what we knew one size and one one thing who did not fit everyone of those kids above the full spectrum and that's the kind of thing I think we need to think about and not just because the disabilities the the other thing as a legislator or I was asked at one point not to run this bill but I am committed to be an up to date and the an innovative so I introduced and we got past the schools of innovation so if your district as addicts district of innovation it was because I absolutely knew one size doesn't fit all because what it did was gave school districts ways of changing things the way they wanted to to fit that district never was I a person who thought it just has to be on this but this way that way and then I'll just a quickly to the other thing everybody in here is a member of the National Council of state legislatures we all are just because I mean you all are all our because your legislators you know it's not been long enough you're a member of that group and twenty twelve when we looked at the scores around the world and we were not performing the way not even matching what was happening in the rest of the world the way we thought we should. I was the chair of the of the Education Committee along with my democratic of my democratic cohort because that's how we did it Democrat and Republican and we talked to and it persuaded NCSL to fund and get some partner so we could study the highest performing countries and educational round the world because we wanted to know what are they doing. And we started that process in twenty twelve and it took us which reminds me of the short time here it took us until twenty fourteen to do the deep dive to do the work do the research taught with people from around the world to know that to find out what they were doing. We had a report I brought it back presented to the school but due to the State Board presenter Education Committee presented to forward Arkansas. Nobody wanted to edit anything also though those of those are just some of the ways and there's been a second report a follow up report to that one that was just released at in December of last year the second edition of the studying schools around the world am I serve on a board the national conference of education and the economy where we I'm a part now looking at doing that work. Thank you thank you for your testimony one we have one more way more representative Hodges. But here Senator Elliot my friend just one quick follow my friends because then. I will okay first of you talked a lot about in your testimony about efficiency. As it relates to the state and specifically about Private schools my question is when you raise the issue of efficiency would you agree that sense you know under this bill should it choose a student choose to go to private school they would actually be getting ninety percent of the state funding so from the state's perspective it might actually be more efficient sure the student use go to private school because they're getting less than fund well it might seem that way but the bottom line is we need money that we haven't spent because one of things I said about this bill I and I haven't challenged it on paper to see if it's true this is the largest investment we've ever made in public school's or private or whatever you make an education in general I think what we should not forget is it doesn't mean that it is there's funding beyond what we already needed to make our public schools world class schools that could and should be able to compete with. The top the top performers and I'm not sure that would be the case if we are not spending that money in that way so I wanted to agree with you so you know some and so one partner Delia numbers it's true outcome I don't think so. I see no other questions I can really thank you thank you some to speak for the bill. Chelsea abit. Seven if you'll introduce yourself for the record and who you're representing you may begin your testimony thank you I know y'all are tired so thank you for us staying up and listening to us today my name is Chelsea abit I am a wife and a mom of four in an administrator at Providence academy a classical Christian university model school in northwest Arkansas. Because of the unique model that Providence offers I am also the co teacher to my third grader in my first grader as we work together at home three days a week. I chose Providence first as a mom in part to the fact the Providence prides itself to the commitment and partnering with parents. Almost twelve years ago I began my teaching career in my local public school district the closer my oldest daughter got to kindergarten the more my husband and I knew we wanted something radically different for her education. My husband at the time was working in higher education and financially making the move to a private school was very difficult our family like many of the families that my school made a lot of sacrifices for her family to do that. I see the fruits of our simple obedience to what the lord has called us to do. The way I view the world education even lies in one truth Christ is lord of all. I would miss it because of my own world view it is impossible for me to think of the role of the parent is anything but the primary disciple maker of their children and therefore primary authority over their children and because I know that is true it only makes sense that I would support a bill that gives power to the parents when choosing what school they would send their child they're very best thing to. I want to be a part of the change taking shape in our state and our nation that works to create a stronger relationship between the parent and the child instead of the institution and the child. My children belong to me and your children belong to you. No one in this room and no teacher in this world knows my kids better than I do or loves them more than I do. I have heard this bill de funds public schools I would argue that the public school system D. funds families. The money doesn't belong to the school system it belongs to the child I am for funding students instead of systems. Some say this bill is for the rich in reality the written always been able to have educational toys for their children school choice is designed to help children despite their neighborhood or their families income. Some will say we are called to care for the least of these and I agree. School choice is one of the ways that we do that. I am encouraged and I'm grateful that Arkansas my home state is leading the way in putting children first when it comes to educational freedom thank you. Would have any members have any questions for the witness. Seeing none thank you for your testimony. Next to speak against the bill Carol Fleming. You're recognized yourself wonder if that was a psychology tactic. Stall. Good afternoon I'm Carol Fleming a speech language pathologist serving as president of the Arkansas education association Mister chair and committee thank you for taking the time to hear my testimony on behalf of the educators. It's been a rough three years for Arkansas public school students and families. Pandemic related school closure stalled the gains we were making in reading and math and less students isolated and disconnected from the caring educators who nurture their potential the list of challenges facing our public schools and students holds little comparison in recent memory yes every day our educators show up. Learns ACT in the amendment proposed to address those challenges and inequities in public education are filled with the proposal of programs resources and funding that we support such as early intervention expanded pre K. literacy enrichment school safety and increased student interventions but it is also lacking in addressing access to those services support for students with special needs and general versus specific intent for management of local control on salaries hiring firing non renewal and more not to mention what accountability and oversight standards will be used in our private and parochial schools. We have public schools in every community across the state and our energy should be focused on making them great. Ninety percent of Arkansas families choose public schools for their children shouldn't this bill focus on the challenges facing our students and neighborhood schools. Every zip code in this state has a public school but what is not in every neighborhood or zip code is a school where a child can use a voucher. Parents shouldn't have to think twice about the education that their children are receiving. Quality education in every neighborhood should be a given and include smaller class sizes to allow for more one to one intervention in attention teachers who are qualified before and after school programs and supportive environments where the social emotional needs of our students can be met rather this bill is full of proposals that would weaken public schools across the state increase existing inequities in our rural schools and make it harder to keep experienced teachers in the classroom. Every child deserves a great teacher and every teacher deserves respect for the work they do. Teacher pay should be increased but what about our veteran educators. Raising the starting pay is good but how will we be able to attract recruit and retain the best and brightest to Arkansas with no guarantee of future employment or salary advancement. While the intent of this bill will grant local districts the responsibility and autonomy to develop pay scales to compensate staff based on experience in higher degrees who will ensure that happens is that the Department the state board of education or the legislature there is little to nothing to address the severe shortages in school support staff or adjustment of their salaries Arkansas is facing worker shortages for critical school staff our schools do not and cannot work without our professional bus drivers school nutrition staff nurses counselors and others it takes all educators to support our students. We've seen the stories of students who can't get to school because the buses can't run and so the schools were closed or students were only offered sandwiches in the cafeterias because they couldn't hire enough nutritional staff when alarming provision would sends kids to school and unaccountable rideshare vehicles how many of those ride share or carpool vehicles are accessible for students with special needs in closing let's talk about the parents those who want to give their kids a hug goodbye and send them out the door knowing that down the block is a great public school. Those who don't want to send their children to a private school or who don't want their child retained in third grade don't take away their choice by siphoning dollars away from our schools especially in our rural communities where there are no other options or funds have been drained from the neighborhood school they have come to rely on in the end I believe we all agree that students should be at the center of our discussions as we work to ensure they receive a quality education one that prepares them to live in succeed in a diverse an interdependent world moving forward let's put a pause and expand the voices that are part of the conversations and include educators with the rulemaking process an additional assistance with the clean up language thank you members any questions for misleading. Seeing none thank you for your testimony members I I I want to thank you for your your work here and your patience your. We've got a lot still signed up to speak it is my intent is I'm as we that we would give everyone signed up the opportunity to speak. However it some point I'm afraid we're going to start getting a little repetitive a little redundant I know that there are some groups that are here together on both sides where there are two or three or four that are of the same association or the same group. If you have a single point a message we would love to hear that if you're all gonna say the same thing maybe you could appoint maybe a spokesman for your group to speak for your group just to make sure that all messages are heard next up to speak for the bill Jody Harris ms Harris. So you're still here. You'll identify yourself for the record he represent you may begin your testimony. Thank you Mr chairman thank you committee for taking the time to hear all of these voices today my name is Jody Harris and I am a public school parent a for children in a fatal Arkansas and during the spring twenty twenty school shut down and our family actually experienced a great blessing we had watched our oldest son struggle and hate school and as a as a product of public school myself I never ever gave a second thought that we wouldn't send our kids to the school or they were resound my husband is an alum of Fayetteville high school and so we we moved to a home in that school district on purpose we wanted to be there because we thought that that would provide our children with a lot of opportunities during the shut down we discovered white necklace hated school so much he couldn't sit still he wouldn't pay attention to the screen and I do not have an education degree and fell ill equipped to keep him on task every day but every day we struggle through the work kept him focused on his Chromebook and he was miserable and we continue to work with him and and one day I was venting to another parent about how difficult how easy the work was or it seems for a fourth grader and yet how difficult it was to get him to complete his task and she started to talk to me about the markers of AT and dyslexia. Like what are you talking about like why when it's his first grade teacher second grade teacher brought that up to me I always got chalked up to Nicholas is a boy he's he can't doesn't sit still he just you know he's he daydreams Health he'll grow out of this we got an official diagnosis that he did in fact have ADD and some of his focus and intention issues were corrected with very low dose of medication when he returned in twenty twenty two in in August to fifth grade he had a teacher who actually had eighty herself and so she caught him and it was the best. It was the best year of school that he'd ever had. I'm but the rest of our kids were struggling there were a lot many schools in Northwest Arkansas we're still hearing to to mandates that made that made it tough to teach and it made it tough to learn post COVID education was rough on our teachers it was really rough on our kids. For the twenty twenty to twenty three school year we opted to move skews me. Our three youngest children out of public schools into a smaller. Rural school district in Elkins nearby is closer to our home. We did this out of concern for the overcrowding in just the need for a smaller environment where we felt like the district could address the needs of of our children and our children are thriving there in Northwest Arkansas the rule schools are quickly becoming the schools of choice and I'll tell you we got a lot of school choice options in Northwest Arkansas that people are moving with their feet or via school transfer to Elkins and pre Grove in Lincoln because of the smaller classrooms and a small town feel every single one of these children has value and they have a purpose in a parent is a child's best advocate to identify an education path it will help them fulfill their purpose I thank you so much for including us in this conversation. There are so many things about this bill that we love paying teachers the best to get the best in our state I think that you are working on trying to iron out the details of that and I'm so thankful the focus on literacy and coaches to intervene when kids need it is exciting to me open enrollment to not make parents worry that they may not get into the schools of choice I think there's an opportunity for us to look at schools as not seven a or five A. or rule or big or or rich or poor but finding schools that are the best for that particular student the community community service connection especially in our rural areas is so important to connect future Kansans to service in their own home towns there I read a lot in the bill about career and college readiness for students we talked a lot today about shortages in certain industries and and professions there's a huge opportunity get those students to receive their education and come back and service serving the communities of the region where they where they grew up the Arkansas learn bill learns bills supports education opportunity for all students education isn't it isn't a one size fits all not in public schools not private schools not enter schools as public school parents were excited about this bill lifting children out of situations that don't suit their needs and allowing parents to be empowered to choose the best education path to help their specific child find success I think it's really important that that there's some accountability to parents and in this as well on behalf of Natalie and Mallory and Nicolas Michael here's I'm for this committee to vote in favor of the learns Act I thank you for the work on this bill and for continuing to fund our students and the best way possible to meet their needs thank you committee any questions. Ins for a miss Harris. C. nine thank you for your testimony. Speak against the bill Nell Matthews. I've asked bill Kopp ski to join me here. We work together the citizens first Congress and I know bill and we have similar ideas so at in the interest of time I thought I could make my real short which is no vouchers and then let bill go okay yes I do see you signed up later this will be your time to speak is that caress over trying to follow your advice and save everybody in it yes Sir thank you for that if you are you'll identify yourself for the record and you mad again you're just now Mathews I'm bill Kaski on the Director of the Arkansas public policy panel assistance first congressman appreciate the moment to speak with you thank you you may proceed. So Trying to figure out where exactly to begin I brought some charts and I wanted to show you because Arkansas has there's been a lot of talk about you can't handle the status quo says close as close and I agree with that in Arkansas in fact has a pretty rich history of making some pretty dramatic progress so after the Lakeview ruling in two thousand. The governor then governor Huckabee for the Blue Ribbon commission. Held hearings around the state but all the diverse stakeholders and the public forms not two days of compressed hearings like today and over in the Senate. All hearings for over a year brought in experts paid experts issue reports then went around held hearings around the state some more and they produced an evidence based set of reforms for education system that had dramatic impacts so between the years two thousand three and two thousand fifteen we actually had the fastest improving education system in the country on math and reading scores anywhere Arkansas remove from forty nine to forty second in the country. What. Well round two thousand fourteen two thousand fifteen we got charter curious about your curious and we started setting specific lowball targets on adequacy so we could find massive tax cuts and what. Well yes our college going rates decline. Average ACT scores decline. Neighboring stores start gap starts so widen back out between the national in Arkansas no longer the fastest improving system. What grade reading declines eighth grade reading kind of flat lines. The point is we know what to do. We don't. This bill and it. We know we've got to bring the stakeholders together look at the evidence engage the public that's got to pay for this and support this. And build a consensus path forward not railroad and ideological bill through the legislature before anybody has a chance to read it respond to it. So I want to start with that. We don't do this bills public education bill. What's been talked about a literacy rates need to invest in literacy the only two letters the things we see in the bill or only partially funded. The vouchers are fully funded the massive expansion of charter schools are fully funded but not the literacy programs in the literacy program for two years is going to widen equity gaps because it's a competitive grant program this can only be eligible to school districts have the capacity to write a grant and that requires a local match which we already have heard of ton of today that local districts in low wealth communities just aren't going to have the capacity to do. So our students who need the tutoring program which we fully support is based off of the bill we like. But they're not gonna be able to access it because the way it's structured and because we're low balling that because what we really want to fund is the ideological about yourself that has no evidence to support it actually has pretty compelling evidence that hurts student performance. So let's just start with that. Another component that I want to emphasize to you will is the charter expansion in this bill. It is scary and I think it's been under sold to you this provision in the law if you read the plain language of it is going to coerce schools with these an **** in the contracts with for profits and charter companies to run schools with zero evidence that it's going to help and those are in your communities a lot of your communities and I heard the Secretary earlier say well this is just to help the schools signed a contract with some capacity building technical provided they can do that already you read the plain language of the bill this gives a state department the power to coerce local districts by either punishing them if they don't do it or offering them a carrot if they do do it and entering private contracts with private for profit companies or charter companies with zero evidence that it actually improves student performance. So I heard the somewhere earlier today so we have one hundred seventy five million dollars to spend on vouchers. We think it's going to cost a lot a lot more that when we get there and then but let's assume from home we have a hundred seventy five million dollars to spend on improving education in Arkansas Mr Cobb C. your time is up if you want okay yeah I have promise alright this in thirty seconds. The last place we would want to spend a hundred thirty five million dollars is on about your program and charters if you look at the evidence there's a ton of unfunded things not even mention in the bill that have evidence behind them would improve education for every child in Arkansas tomorrow. Because we ran out of time in the Senate I email this to all of you but we have detailed comments on the bill has a lot of suggest some of the things what is not going to agree on and I respect that but there are some areas where we do agree and we have some suggestions for ways to maybe even make them better I've made copies because I wasn't sure how many people got the email so there's some copies to distribute I'm sure you're looking forward to reading more after the hundred forty four pages the last thing I if I can the cost estimate of the voucher program is radically lowball. By our projection it could easily hit five hundred million dollars by year five. And I'm happy to share the math with you behind that in my question is in year five when this program cost a whole lot more than you've been told what do you gonna cut. What's going to get cut I know there's gonna be no money for pre K. or after school or summer or helping kids in poverty or all the things that aren't part of adequacy that we ought to be doing is they would get us back on the path of closing the gap but when the cost estimates come in high and then in the bill you create a voucher tax credit program that has an automatic five percent inflation triggered this twenty five million dollars twenty years and I appreciate it I will entered actions I brought you lots of charts because I'm a nerd so thank you all for any any questions for Mr cops he. Seeing none Sir thank you for your testimony. To speak for the bill Gail P. and also. Please forgive me if I did not pronounce it properly. And I'll tell you you will introduce yourself for the record. The state who you're representing and you may begin your testimony my name's Gail P. and also I'm representing myself I'm a retired nurse I'm a grandmother I'm a voter and I'm a taxpayer. I live in Bellavista I was educated in the public school system as for my two children I have five grand children who attend public schools and three who attended faith based private school. I support SB two ninety four. I support education transformation where the money follows the child and parents are given the tools to empower their children to succeed regardless of income and address. Arkansas public schools are failing I live in the Bentonville school district Beneful public schools motto is where X. one celeb's. In twenty twenty two Bentonville high school was ranked the number one non charter high school in Arkansas. Bentonville high school graduated ninety three percent of its students with only fifty seven percent of students able to test at grade level in math. Fifty seven percent in reading. The district has two hundred and fifty million dollar budget but money isn't solving the deficiencies. Is this what we call excellence in Arkansas. Competition is the answer to excellent education for our children choice breeds competition and raises the bar as any good entrepreneur will tell you. If there is a need and folks can pay for their need to be filled the opportunity draws qualified people to fill the need and do it better. Through competition more schools will open up that specialize in special education trauma informed education and other forms of specialized education parents will be able to choose a school that best meets the academic needs of their students while promoting morals and values the line up with their own their students will not be trapped in schools that indoctrinate them with the latest political sexual or cultural ideology. Our Kansans are being presented with an opportunity to once and for all do away with one size fits all education. As women we can tell you how it makes us feel when inevitably one size fits all doesn't fitness whether the issue is too small to large too long or too short we ask what's wrong with me that this one size fits all doesn't work our image of ourselves suffers especially in our adolescent years so how do you think students feel when public schools can't or won't recognize and cultivate their unique gifts and needs if public schools are parents only choice then it is one size fits all. I believe this this set students up for failure in that we can do better by allowing parents who know their students strengths and challenges to choose a school that best fits their child up to succeed let's not miss this opportunity to raise the bar on education in Arkansas let's do it for the children. PNL tower would you take questions. Representative flowers you're recognized for a question thank you Mr changes quickly you were you mentioned ma'am about the one size fits all and children's unique gifts not being addressed are accommodated can you give us some examples of What those gifs might be that might not be addressed by public schools in general thank you well children have a variety of gifts and talents and there is absolutely no possible way that anyone school can meet all of those. So it is I mean it even if that gift is maybe that child is extremely gifted as an artist as a painter. And the end of the school that they the district that they attend the school that that they're attending can't provide what they need in order to foster that count then that's an example of one size fits all. You're recognized for follow up. can you tell us how this bill would enable of those students whose gifts are not where they might go where all of their every child gives would be addressed. No I don't think any school can meet every child's gifts that's why we need school choice. Seeing no other questions. Thank you for your testimony. To speak on the bill. Dr Mike Hernandez. Doctor named as field any by yourself for the record. You're representing you may begin your testimony. Thank you chairman eleven Dodge my command as I'm the executive director of a EA and and members of the House Committee you should have it a statement from us in your email box and not to bring hard copies if anybody wants to see those and I'll start out by reading a little bit but Mr chairman members of the house Education Committee thank you for the opportunity to speak today on Senate bill two ninety four school administrators want to create a strong working relationship with the governor house and Senate to improve public school education in Arkansas we want to be your partners throughout this process not your adversaries fundamentally the academic values of educators align with the concepts Prost and learns Act and most importantly will do what's best for all students school administrators understand and accept the challenge of implementing the outcome of this legislation we will be changing many of our instructional practices curriculum and intervention programs to ensure students have the necessary skills to perform at or above grade level with the full support of the legislature and the department of education rather than settling for adequate we want to strive for excellence just as you do. We appreciate the administration being receptive to feedback from a EA and for allowing some leaders to provide input on the concepts that were that went into making Arkansas learns Plan still I must acknowledge that only some administrators have that opportunity to provide feedback before the bill is filed as with any piece of legislation is critical to get the details right it's been repeatedly stated that this is a transformational change in many ways we agree we also believe that transformational change should take place should place a very high value on the input from those that are working in our schools each and every day. Administrators have been meeting with one another and with local legislators and we appreciate those meetings have been taking place as we work through this process but we know that there are some parts of the bill that require a reward modification and clarification we would rather be proactive rather than reactive to the challenges for successful implementation we understand many of these items will be addressed in the rule making process others may need amendments or clean up three additional bills throughout the rest of the session I respectfully request is that practitioners be included as we move forward I won't go through all the list of things in detail most of those events spoke about today but we did submit a list of amendments for consideration those were some clarification or potential modifications on the right to reject peace also around the salaries your lots of discussion around that day eighty percent and getting clarification so schools that are getting ready to set their budgets and do their hiring process that's going on starting now and so the quick as we can get that information I think that would be absolutely wonderful of course you heard questions today about the course choice that's something else that we've been looking at trying to get clarification on and we know that all the coming due process was something that we ask for to kind of clarify exactly how that's supposed to be working with the bird with a on schools to make sure that happened and that was taken care of through the amendment we do appreciate that questions around community service learning maternity leave and then also some some technical language around the disqualifying offense and the time ones that we feel like need to be addressed somewhat to make sure that we can actually do some of the things that that the bills asking for and I'll just end by saying this is that you know we certainly appreciate the efforts we know that that there are lots of concerns that can be out there and and things that will just have to work through it as partners with you guys in legislature what we really want folks to know back home in those districts that this implementation or get ready to go through. if this bill passes in whatever form it does that it's going to take all of this can be very difficult and we need patients from our local communities when the patients from the legislature we don't want this process to saying well here you go good luck it's going to take a lot of work and I don't want to downplay that there's gonna be lots of feelings around that and and we're gonna need school board support teachers support staff support and and most important of all we're gonna need your support as well so thank you any questions for doctor named is. Seeing none thank you Sir for your testimony speaking for the bill. Jason Maxwell. Max well if you will introduce yourself for the record you're representing you may begin your testimony yes. Hi my name is Jason Maxwell from private Arkansas and I'm representing myself and my three children German eleven vice chairman Breck and members of the Education Committee I want to thank all of you for your time and service to our state and the sacrifices that you're making as well as your families are making in order to represent the best interest of our Kansans including those in your district by accepting a job with a lower paycheck than that of what you are offering our lowest paid teachers in this bill. Having run myself for district twelve position that is now held by a member of this committee I understand the importance of decisions you are making and only begin to understand the sacrifices and the weight on your shoulders I am here today to encourage each of you but especially my representative. To not further delay the passing that's B. two ninety four the learn to act it is time to invest heavily in the future of our children and our state to be open to new innovative ways to educate our children without boxing them into an educational system that continues to produce mediocre results. The school districts of Decatur grab it and even Bentonville are no exception sure Gravion Bentonville boast of being among the top districts in the state. But when only a third to half of their graduating class reads or does math out above grade level and only ten percent of the twenty twenty two graduates could write at above grade level we are failing our next generation in our low income schools like Decatur only twenty three percent of tenth graders can read at or above grade level and only ten percent can do math at grade level sweeping change is clearly necessary I'm very excited to see our teachers be given to be given living wages that will encourage them to work even harder every day for the betterment of Arkansas students rewarding teachers who are producing student achievement results rather than their new teachers are ones that have been in that career for twenty years just because the teacher has decades of experience does not automatically mean they should have be the highest paid if they are actually teaching our kids how to read write and do math this is about our students this is not about who we hired to teach them yet we spent five hours this morning talking about teachers and the districts and rather they would be fined it what about our kids. The elimination of the mandatory mandatory teacher salary schedule as well as the removal of the teachers fair dismissal acts and I believe will continue to put students first while rewarding those teachers to produce quality results for the students I do recognize that the mandatory teacher salary schedule has been amended somewhat in the update bill it is time we put the power of the education back into the hands of the parents to make the best decision for their family instead of forcing them to trust and embrace the system that has constantly produced dismal educational results for the past decades. Arkansas is amazing place to live and to raise a family. But education has not been our strong suit. I'm excited to see governor Sanders an education secretary of livia's direction for our state that direction will take time to produce the lasting results of higher education quality education for all of our students in the mean time as a father of three daughters I am one hundred percent I'm willing to sacrifice my kids education while we wait. That is why the educational freedom accounts are a hundred percent necessary. Representative you will real remember that this was one of the main things I pushed for during my campaign and thousands of people in our district agree many of the teachers that I speak to in our districts are a hundred percent behind this bill good teachers are not afraid of potentially losing their jobs or their districts being under funded they're excited by the opportunities that will begin to open up work in environments of excellence even if that's through the opening of more private charter Cooper and micro schools allowing parents to choose public schools private schools charter schools home school coop than traditional home school allows parents to shape the best education for their children should home school families have accountability if they are using taxpayer money to help educate their children absolutely that accountability shouldn't dictate who teaches their children but allow testing which should allow methods that are produced the best results for students in the basics of reading writing math and science when it comes to taxpayer funded schooling it's important to remember that thousands of families parents and grandparents of home school students across this state are working and paying taxes just like everyone else Max will your time's expired all right. I would just like to encourage all of you to pass Senate bill two ninety four as it is written and not delay further the advancement of this good bill and the framework that has been laid out thank you you questions for the witness. C. nine Sir we thank you for your testimony speak against the bill William Rowntree. Rowntree fuel. Identify yourself for the record and you're representing you may proceed with your testimony my name is William well tree in the superintendent of Carlisle public schools in Carlisle Arkansas I had a lot of messages on will flip phone but it was so long it went dead so I'll I'll kind of cut to the chase. Couple things that strike and first of all the transparency of the process we talked about collaboration with educators administrators superintendents. I've I've got kind of an interesting lineage of background what to a parochial elementary school in Rogers at Saint Vincent DePaul Catholic school would have gone to Catholic high school under parish offered it no doubt but then went into Rogers public school grades seven through twelve went to the university of after proving that test taking is not all that because I got to thirty on the ACT but limped out of there after five years of not going to class very much with the P. U. degree up but proudly coach and taught in Arkansas public schools this is my thirty second year of worked in eight counties. In the state of Arkansas. As small rural is you can give it dear Arkansas and Newton County into a couple of schools in the metro council been a coach been a teacher been a principal now three years as superintendent. And a little background in the legislature my late father in law was a term limited legislature member senator Bobby Glover show been around. This comes up the concern I have on the superintendent input there's not one superintendent in my local area. That had any boots on the ground from a member of this body or the Senate or. got a call is this was being put together so that would be one concern second concern you know coach we have a former co chair in the body but twenty nine years one of the things that kinda hung my hat on sometimes less is more. Hundred forty four page bill with all the different. Topics covered perhaps a bit to massive and we've had several speakers today that are in public school education by my unofficial count most all of them were against the bill in its form of now. UP school is the senator Elliots so eloquently stated it's not a business public school education is what gives each individual hope. Public school education is what gives everybody an opportunity But one of the things in the business end of it is a superintendent is the funding. When you go from the late forties to number four it's starting teacher salary that's not of incremental jump that's a humongous jump. New teachers are really like that I remember when I started nineteen eighty nine and made twenty thousand. Dollars rich. Fifty thousand starts that's a great starting pay but if you've been in it fourteen or fifteen years and your dog gone good classroom teacher. And now you're expected to serve as a chair on the PLC Committee. With the new be making fifty gram and you're now making fifty or fifty two the dynamics of the workplace will not be as easy as what it looks like on paper. So the sustainability of that funding would be in question teacher for dismissal act I've got a lot of my teachers that have questions that. So when you say well you're still going to have full due process you're still going to have this you're still going to have that the question they ask is will for still going to have that that's all that good why they take out the teacher for dismissal act in the first place. You know I don't know I don't know the answer to that I don't want to be of redundant grew a lot of the people of talk about such bills similar items of the literacy coaches that's a great idea hundred twenty literacy coaches we've had a lot of teacher read a fair amount of teacher openings last three years when I've been superintendent each year we've had less and less applicants I assume that. The bill's sponsors have an idea where they're going to get the hundred twenty literacy coaches I'm not sure where that is involved also not sure exactly how that's going to be funded and that would be a concern from the business end of it I support private school education I'm a by product of private school education it was very strict it was very good academically in my parents paid to tuition. They made a choice a choice is very good I don't think that state money or to fund private school education that's a choice. My people are nervous my mid you know mid career type teachers the elephant in the room that nobody's addressed I will the lineage of the current governor going back to her predecessors governor her father our people would be concerned about the closure of small school. Our people would be concerned I would be concerned all the next year is my final year to be superintendent is but I don't treat your your time has expired if you want to make a final I will make this final point yes I don't really want to put ourselves in a position where we have to put a risk policy in place due to lack of monetary opportunity and look at somebody that's given their life to public school education say Hey I'm sorry I want to let you go. Thank you Sir members questions for Mr Rowntree. Seeing none Sir thank you for your testimony is Jennifer hood still here. Jennifer hood. To speak for the bill I think she left. To speak for the bill. Jessica psalm. Some if you identify yourself for the record you represent may begin your testimony good evening Jessica solemn and the two thousand twenty two Arkansas teacher of the year. My name is Jessica some I'm a wife mom advocate and educator as I said I'm also the two thousand twenty two Arkansas teacher of the year and I believe that is educators and legislators we make decisions about education we have to do what's best for students I believe that this learns bill will help Arkansas improved educational outcomes for students across the state. I know the importance of teacher's voice which is why I'm here in fact this time last year I had the opportunity to join other educators from around the state an educational roundtable with then gubernatorial candidate Sarah Huckabee Sanders during this round table we discussed important issues surrounding improving education and Arkansas. As a former pre K. teacher and a current special education teacher I discussed and shared how important early childhood education is I believe that pre K. offers increased early identification and intervention for at risk and I. E. P. eligible students access to opportunity and exposure to school culture and curriculum I along with other educators share this with governor Sanders and I'm thrilled to see it as a part of this plan I believe that it will help to alternately decrease the number of students who were referred to in placed in highly restricted special education settings our students all students are worth that. As a mother who chose to stay home with my children when they were young the twelve weeks of maternity leave and this bill is exciting and encouraging allowing parents to spend these critical early months for their children is so important and it's a blessing for families are Sturch students deserve teachers who feel supported and caring for their own children and families our students are worth it. Raising the starting salary to fifty thousand dollars is a huge win for teachers the education profession as a whole amber students who will benefit from the best and brightest leaders in the classroom. Our students deserve educators appropriately a compensated for their experience and skill and respected for their expertise our students are worth it. I have spent the entire I'm sorry yes I have spent the entirety of the school year as the two thousand twenty two Arkansas teacher of the year visiting schools across the state speaking with educators and spending time with students I was there just this morning there are things that I know and I have seen first hand that are working well and have seen where our greatest challenges are there are things that we know are not working in areas where we must do better this bill addresses that. Governor Sanders has said that she will be known as Arkansas as education governor and I believe that she is committed to that Arkansas will be known as the state the truly reforms education and changes the outcomes for all students Arkansas is educators look forward to being a part of that conversation and during the next steps of this process all educators are needed and must be willing to lend their experience and their expertise to this this bill in this section our students are worth it thank. To a question yes Sir representative garner you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair I'm excited to hear you say how. How interested you are and that the governor is also interested in early childhood is my passion does this bill in any way add funding or classrooms to early childhood I can't speak to that directly I have looked at the bill the it's a lot of pages you guys are probably better experts in that funding I know that those services are needed and I know again from teaching pre K. I was I had a master's degree when I started there and I remember a second grade teacher walking by as I was teaching students how to break their silence open and eat as we shared meals and she laughed she said I forget how much you guys have to teach them before they get to us and then the ready to learn the curriculum so I just I know the importance of it in again as like I said as a special education teacher we have students that show up in kindergarten who haven't had access or availability to pre K. or their parents did not send them and they're identified and they're already starting behind if we can start with that early intervention my own daughter was receipts are receiving speech services and preschool now as a fourth grader she's dismissed from that she had an exit plan from special education services and I believe that early intervention their pre cable offer that. Any other questions. Seeing none miss on thank you for your testimony. To speak against the bill Holly Howard. Our if you'll introduce yourself the record along with. Under these myself Sir is it okay we split our absolute as directed my name's Elizabeth quite I'm I'm a member of the teach plus program and I'm also an English teacher in stock art Arkansas I was born and raised in pine bluff FOR my mother was a teacher for twenty one years Sturch card is a very rural district has many the some of the same struggle seeing in my hometown families living in deep poverty violence permeates the lives of many of my children I've dealt with cockroaches crawling from my student's backpack and comforted children who survived unspeakable things despite the struggles they may indoor I love working with the bright creative students in my classroom I've been blessed to work with fantastic co workers and in the Streeters and have a very supportive community that contributes in many ways but unfortunately a supportive community does not equal a wealthy one our district does not have the tax base to provide a large salary for teachers even or board administration are seeking to our race at three newly proposed millage few new teachers want to move to a small delta town with its many struggles I myself have had to work a second job because as a single parent my wage was not enough to support myself and my two children this obviously makes a proposed base salary increase to learns Act very exciting although I'm very trepidations about the removal of the yearly salary increase as a salary schedule yearly raises for staying within my district although not perfect was a guarantee you raise I could look forward to each year and courage me to commit to my location the proposed replacement the merit teacher incentive program does provide a bonus for teaching within a high needs district but as it is currently written that amount does not increase each year and as representative Hodges pointed out earlier the wording of the learns Act now directs salary directs the districts to increase salary schedules wealthy districts will probably be the only places that can do this the desk the district. That have teachers eligible for the high needs incentives are likely going to be the same districts that are going to be unable or struggle to fund those yearly raises I'm asking you to consider insuring that the merit teacher incentive fund provided for teaching in a high needs rural district will be increased each year a teacher stays there as a way to encourage retention thank you. And my name is Holly Howard and I've taught for seventeen years in Arkansas public schools I'm a national board certified teacher and I'm a senior fellow with each plus. In the spaces I've heard many of you say that teachers don't go into the profession to make money they do it because they love their students and that's my truth I became a teacher because I love kids but I've only remained a teacher because of my students this is hard work but because my students are brilliant individuals I'm willing to show up each day and work as hard as I can to help them reach their highest potential I find myself often stopping in the middle of class to take in the moment to realize that many of them will leave my classroom to go on to make a meaningful mark in the world. That's what makes it an easy choice to be a teacher I've heard so much over the last week about how education is a business and that we should foster competition or that it's a political issue it's not education is about the children that we serve it's about wanting a better future for students we have to get this right that's why we must give each issue the attention that it deserves I would like to see you break up the bill focus on issues like poverty special education access in teacher pay in separate bills and invite teachers to the table provide us with the opportunity to work together with you on a goal that we both share which is not only providing equitable educational opportunities for students but exceptional opportunities in the state of Arkansas thank you. Members any questions for the witnesses. C. nine thank you for your testimony today. Speaking on a speaking for the bill Kevin Tipton. Tipton if you will introduce yourself for the record. Then five U. representing and you may proceed with your testimony. Good. Thank you for having me. My name is Kevin Tipton I'm a parent of two. I'm proud to speak on this bill today. I am for the opportunities that this will create pre K. expansion literacy improvements to during that will be provided. The significant pay raise for teachers that will drive more educators into this field. Especially into struggling communities. The workforce in Arkansas is a challenge right now. This bill will help put a compact a creative emphasis. On career development for students with the dual track diploma. And engaging with their communities. I'm thankful to be from a successful public school district. I serve on our school board and cabinet. And I'm proud that we prioritize school safety. There's nothing more important than for a student to return home safely to their family. Both of my grandfathers. Or my political talking bodies. And I wish they were both still here to discuss this bill. One Republican one Democrat. But each of them would ask me does the good. That this creates outweigh the concerns. The answer to that is yes rancor GFO FOR these opportunities for students. Thank you. There is any questions for Mr Tipton. C. nine Sir thank you for your testimony. To speak against the bill have kera Max will. Speaker Maxwell and I'm guessing Nicole Smith. If you will go to the table and identify yourself for the record and you may proceed with your testimony. I'm Nicole Smith I'm going to go first to have a. I got this done one minute and thirty seconds House Education Committee thank you for giving me the opportunity to testify before you today my name is Nicole Smith imaginable or certified teacher with fourteen years experience I have two master's degrees in my content area and I currently teach English an avid which is which is a college preparatory course for first generation college students. There are two aspects of this bill that I want you to consider. First I would like you to keep the air teacher dismissal act in its entirety as well as paid teachers according to theirs with their certifications and degrees. I have a story that I'm going to tell you that I think exemplifies the excellence that public schools have to offer particularly the Little Rock School District. When I was nine years old experienced extreme tragedy the person whom I love the most besides my mother died and actively my father literally I went to school one morning when I got home I was told that my father was date. To say that my world spun out of control is an understatement. Even though I had experienced a terrible tragedy there was a bright spot a constant sunlight that never waned my school specifically in my little rock public school the regiment teen of school help me to begin to feel normal it was my teachers who helped me move forward in my life they taught me in spite of my grades and test scores they love me through my pain the unique aspect of the teaching profession is that we build relationships with the students and their families over time I am success today because I had career educators teachers who spent thirty or forty years in the classroom who not only taught me the curriculum but who also taught me how to live and be a productive human being. I aspire to be a thirty year classroom teacher because I know that students look for their teachers year after year decade after decade. Today's teachers have to be afforded the same protection at the parent teacher dismissal act in its entirety a for the career teachers that I have to just have to know that they are protected additionally teachers have to be incentivized to state in the classroom we could not have teachers leaving the profession because their pay is too low and they can get another job paying more money. We must encourage teachers to continue the good work by paying them a fair and competitive salary that a knowledge as their years of experience degrees and certifications this will allow us to get and keep strong talent thank you. Okay I want to make sure that it was on. Okay my name is Karen axle and I'm a pre K. teacher in Springdale I'm also a teacher plus Arkansas senior fellow I hold a master's degree and I've been teaching for nine years within those nine years I've obtained my national board certification that you saw graduate certificate certificate and most rest recently a special education endorsement my students as well as their needs for the driving force when I decided to further my knowledge and education one student in particular David entered my classroom at three years old with previously unrecognized developmental delays this often happens with pre K. age students with lace we don't have special education teachers for pre K. students in our program their service bar educational cooperative which usually visits once per week. Also my student population is very diverse and many don't speak English upon entering my classroom each year therefore I knew the things that I have done such as obtaining my special education endorsement and my to sell graduate certificate would help me further my knowledge to become a more highly effective educator I'm slated to have thirty hours a graduate course work on top of my masters by August of this year the way that the bill structure now there aren't any guarantees that this will mean anything while there are bonuses mentioned in the bill for highly effective educators the implied definition of what highly effective is in the bill is not and indeed indicative of all highly effective educators seemingly the bonuses are impart merit based on student achievement I ask that you consider defining the salary schedule mentioned in the amendments and allows stakeholders to be a part of the role creation process. Will appreciate teacher in a public school ever be eligible for a bonus when they're based on student achievement as it currently stands we use an authentic assessment system that focuses on hotel development stakeholders the ones who are who will be most affected didn't have many seats at the table when this bill was created I'm asking that we do get seats at the table when the roles are correct are created and hopefully maybe and further amendment process. the students of Arkansas to serve teachers who are respected as the knowledgeable for professionals that we are compensated for choosing to go above and beyond to not because they work in a school with students who are living in poverty and can't do on test and I would like to offer one more thing that's a little off of this topic because it has been a question miss garner had ask if there was any additional funding mentioned in the bill for early childhood education there is not what I have seen in the bill when reviewing the early childhood education section as we are taking everything in making it a unified system which is fine and that's great but also we are redoing a lot of systems that we already have in place and I feel like that's a waste of time and a waste of money if we already have effective systems that are working we should be focusing on how to access more funding and create more slides for more students so that they have. A place you know there should be universal pre K. would be awesome but I know that that's probably not gonna happen any time soon but I feel like we should expand access we shouldn't be reinventing the wheel and systems that are already in place that are working thank you. Thank you. Seeing no questions thank you for your testimony. To speak for the bill misty Mitchell. Should leave of speaking for the bill Tracy Carr. This car if you'll identify yourself the record the represent you may begin your testimony. It but one more time there you go sorry my name is Tracy Carter and I'm a mother of three beautiful children I've got a senior in high school a seventh grade son in the fourth grade son I have the unique experience of being involved in two different public school districts one charter school and one private school in northwest Arkansas I am here today to dense demonstrate the importance of school choice on the need for parents to be able decide which Avenue is best for their individual children as I mentioned before I have three different children with three different educational needs my daughter attended a private school from pre K. to second grade then transferred to a rule public school in northwest Arkansas when she arrived at public school she was immediately ahead of our peers she went on to attend the public charter school from seventh grade to tenth grade to. Or they allowed her to accelerate her course load and she'll develop valuable study skills shall the opportunity take AP classes and start earning college credits this charter school has had to Mendel's teachers and they are downplaying the gold standard I when we are all stuck at home during Kopet her junior year her needs changed again and she went back to private school she will graduate in may with fifty college hours and the GPA of four point three. my son in contrast started kindergarten and pop rule public school and I immediately knew he had a learning disability I request of the teacher help me figure out how to help them and unfortunately he never got any help that year and then midway through the following year I had to transfer him to a larger school district who is better equipped to help them he was then diagnosed with dyslexia and ADD the large school district was able to provide him with intervention and programs that would better accommodate his needs since it was a large school district with lots of students I noticed that once he got to middle school he was beginning to fall through the cracks and it was very hard for me to gauge his progress on a daily basis so his sixth grade year I moved on to a smaller private school where he could get more individual attention and he was not so overwhelmed by a larger school district this move has helped him succeed both academically as self esteem is improved and is made wonderful friendships as you can see from my two children their individual needs and the needs of our family has changed based on many factors other than ours of code in conclusion I want to stress the importance of educational freedom as my desire that you pass this bill it is not my desire to leave out the teachers my husband's mother was a public school teacher for forty years they have a very difficult job and we're very appreciative of all their hard work and countless hours and I feel like they are definitely severely underpaid and anyone that spent the time of home schooling and teaching their children during COVID is very appreciative of the job that they do on a regular basis so I am excited and this bill to see that they're gonna get a much needed to raise and I know the several. People have Mentioned the they're afraid the funding is not going to be there and hopefully we can make sure that that happens form because they are so severely underpaid am they do a lot of great work and we do appreciate them so much. Any questions for ms Kerr. C. nine thank you for your testimony. Speak against the bill Jenny Petty. Jenny still here. She had to leave okay Rachel Evans. Jenny Patty. She didn't have to leave. What if I yourself for the record you're with you may proceed with your testimony. Thank you and my name is Rachel Evans I'm representing myself and this is my fourth year as a public high school English teacher and I'm here today because I believe in education public education Arkansas and I'm concerned I'm concerned about all the unanswered questions that have come up with the learns bill and about the affect the bill having students educators families and communities of Arkansas. here is some of my concerns using public school funds for private charter and religious schools weakening of the teacher for dismissal act in changing the requirement for teacher salary increases based on education and experience to answer representative flowers earlier question and here's a few things that I would change about the bill I'd remove the tie between teacher bonuses and student achievement I would would like concrete clarity on where funding for the bills coming from and if the voucher system remains in the bill have the same accountability measures for schools that accept vouchers as public schools and provide additional funding for special education in public schools and here's mask break up the bill into smaller pieces to be considered and voted on overtime and give teachers a seat on the rulemaking process thank you for your time. Thank you Miss sevens any questions for. Representative painter you're recognized for a question thank you for your testimony yes Sir is there any parts of this bill that you do like. And if so one or two. That many. I appreciate that you. That the bill is thinking and talking about teacher salaries okay yes thank you Mr any additional questions. C. nine thank you for your testimony thank you speaking for the bill Dorothy K. OB. She had to leave. Speaking for the bill C. J. Jacoby. I had to leave I assume savanna Jacoby was also. okay speaking on the bill Allison green would. The screen would if you'll notice yourself for the record he represent along with your yes there. There you go. Hello I'm announcing Greenwood executive director for the Arkansas state teachers association and this is Amy Douglas director of legal services and we appreciate your time we know that you're tired and as I'm hearing people I just want to thank each and everyone of you for your service in willing to serve in this capacity because it's not easy and. We appreciate it. I'm. I'm a veteran educator and product of a public school. Most of and a couple of different public schools mostly from park and which is a small rural school that's no longer open my mother and maternal grandparents are retired public school educators and I have two biological children and one stepchild he knew all graduated from different high schools two different public schools when private for different reasons. Asked that is a non union member driven professional educator association serving thousands of educators in Arkansas I membership consists of school employees who work at all types of educational entities public charter private Christian parochial online in university representing all political affiliations the mass the vast majority of our members are public school educators it is our goal to share the professional voice of our members and respectful manner which we believe is the best way to ensure they are included in policy development that leads to the best outcomes for students it's our wish to work together to raise the bar for children in the quality professionalism for educators we've been consulting with educators throughout the state and surveyed our members on the content of that speech to ninety four today we are sharing preliminary data from the first seven hundred fifty responses which include nearly four hundred open ended comments and due to time restraints we will not share all of those but pretty much every comment made today representative one of the four I've been ended responses we will discuss some overall. Commonalities Amy will give the actual results quickly. So ninety three percent of those respondents work at public school districts seventy nine percent of those are classroom teachers nine percent or non classroom educators six percent as principals in Adams. Thirty three percent of those earn between thirty five thousand fifty thousand thirty six percent are between fifty thousand and sixty thousand seventeen percent are between sixty and seventy thousand thirty percent of those who responded M. or under forty years old thirty two percent between forty and forty nine thirty seven percent were over fifty eighty percent and were female eighteen percent margin pre K. and kindergarten thirty eight percent elementary thirty five percent middle and junior high school thirty five percent high school seventeen point four percent percent were in special education the overall opinion of and the learns Act is sixty eight percent of educators are mixed on the bill supporting some parts but opposing others when asked which one element educators were most discussing top responses were thirty percent raising the base teacher pay from thirty six thousand to fifty thousand thirty percent repeal of the teacher for dismissal ACT eighteen percent providing education freedom accounts to families this means nearly eighty percent of the discussion is focused on these three elements of the bill. When asked which one element most impacts them personally top responses were twenty four percent raising the base teacher pay from thirty six to fifty seventeen percent providing each teacher with a raise at least of at least two thousand dollars when asked which element you most opposed top responses were forty nine percent repeal of the teacher for dismissal ACT eighty percent providing education freedom accounts to families when asked which elements would you support as stand alone legislation nearly seventy percent support providing twelve weeks of paid maternity leave providing each teacher with the rays of at least two thousand dollars providing literacy catches celebra forming schools fifty five percent support raising the base pay from thirty six to fifty thousand fifty percent support requiring all school staff to complete mental health awareness training when asked about educator con consultation on education legislation two percent said they believe educators like me were consulted during the development of this bill thirty four percent believe educators like me were not consulted during the development of this bill forty six stated educators are not consulted on any education bills including this one overall eighty percent of survey respondents to do not feel that educate that educators like them are consulted on major education policy. The screen with your time is expired if you want to make a final comment okay. We're willing to work with that legislators and we want to do that higher pay is certainly welcomed and everything that. Due to the limits we're greatly concerned about the Arkansas teacher for dismissal act and asked I cannot support this bill. In its entirety with the repeal and that we don't think it's best for educators we don't think it's best for children and we have a lot of data to show that the measures provided by the teacher for dismissal act or an appropriate minimum to address issues like professionals and it does not prevent necessary discipline or staff changes without being redundant and to close it out. We will continue to be involved stakeholder and state to lend our voice to the conversation we are in favor of aspects of the bill and have concerns about other aspects of the bill but as a whole we can't support it in its entirety even with set some of the richest pieces at the bill because of the repeal of the Arkansas teacher for dismissal thank you we take a question yes thank you. Representative McKenzie you're recognized for a question thank you Mr so in my private life I spend a lot of time working on insight and I think with the work that you do in representing members across state is vital I want to make sure that the insights that you're providing the committee today are coherent to the process legislative process of hearing the bill was one of the questions on your survey if that if you're members at in fact read the legislation in its entirety. Repeat that question again was one of the questions if they had read it in and in the entirety correct not specifically that question now. So the information that we're cleaning off the incites the provided. What are your respondents expected to to understand about the content of legislation in order to respond to your survey I'm just trying to get understanding of is this information they're bringing in to the survey are you providing information summary points talking points about the legislation itself. They had been informed about different legislative at the points they brought we ask them what their awareness was of the bill how they felt that they were involved what their key we listed out the different major components of the bill and that's how they came to the point of date pieces that they were made as supported or opposed and. Which impacted them must closely thank you. Representative fight you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair hi I'm just wondering if this that was done before the amendments were made to this bill that were presented to us it was conducted it when ounce. Yes yes. So four days ago okay so you have not done this survey since the amendments were made because you did reference the at the due process the pair dismissal right all right thank you. The representative but you're recognized for a question thank you Mr my question is when did you first as a I guess organization and you have to the helm of hell organisms we did you first realize that there were going to be some educational changes coming around. This bill arms some some form of educational reform. We knew that there would be changes we first saw the bill on Monday evening before that you didn't realize that there were changes coming yes we did so when was that. We have known for a long time that edgy that there are changes coming and we have been speaking with our members and legislators and different people about that yes so my question is is. I guess I'm just thankful what the gap is when was the gap between you knew that changes were common and you did your survey. We did the survey after the complete bill was there were a lot of speculations and I'm members. They support many different components of the bill It's in the entirety. And because we you know one of our primary roles is for employee rights and. Even with the revision so we appreciate the revisions that have been made we still have some concerns about the removal of the Arkansas teacher for dismissal act I'd appreciate capital discipline from yesterday. My my concern is is that we've heard a lot of teachers that say we're not part of the process. In I come to see you guys maybe up a network or a funnel that could have been part of this process early on and we didn't gather any information beforehand as what components we thought would improve education in Arkansas I'm just I'm just going to put you don't tell me but now if you say we could have influence early on and now we can't R. or wanting to have influence now after the fact so I just think you're as an organization you guys have been pretty reacted as is as opposed to being proactive against to try to get this legislation where it should have been and would you agree with that. Representative flowers you're recognized for a question thank you I'm can thank you Mr chair can either of you confirm. Whether or not anyone has ever contacted you to share information with you ask for your feedback about how the tenets of this bill prior to Monday last Monday or since last Monday would impact teachers or what your organization might think about it. Now. Follows the chair you're recognized for a follow. as you will have been engaged with public policy measures in the sense of monitoring and Communicating with your members. Have you ever experienced or known of a situation in which whether the policy was as sweeping. As this or not where A bill has been. Dropped on Monday and heard on Wednesday and then heard again on Tuesday to be call passed by those who are you know if the sponsors and co sponsors within a week and a half. There's a lot of information on the bill and. It let me make a question easier. Have you had enough time. To read go through summarize this bill share with your members and get adequate feedback for what was in the bill and as well as what was in the amendment. We have not. We have gone over we have read the bill in the entirety we have studied at We have not had time to. Communicate as much as we would like to with our members that we have spoken to hundreds of them and have feedback like I said we represent educators from every type of educational entity at the majority of those educators are public school educators but we represent educators from pie you know private public charter everything. And we want to empower those educators. To elevate their professional voice and that is our wish we don't want to work against you or anyone else we want to work with you and to. The teacher voice is strong and their experts and I have so much to offer As this bill is implemented and as it moves forward. We. Share their voice and we are already working on a more expensive poll and survey for our educators this was just the initial And if I if Mister chair just for brevity we're running out I'm I'm trying. I'm saying can we in the conversation is just asset for any future feedback or polling you share that with the community I mean this is the committee at whatever point thank you thank you. Thank you to speak. For the bill. Paul Calvert. Check out if you identify yourself the represent for the record you may begin your testimony. One is Paul Calvert represent myself. I appreciate shall hang out so long listen or testimonials I know it's a long day hoping at this for a while. So before I go to my comma main statements I want to. Address one issue that seems to keep coming up. I'm copper similar territorial ism from many teachers administrators about the idea that funding will be reduced to government schools if children leave in favor of home schooling or private school there is some degree of truth in this but isn't the whole truth the reality is that per student funding has the potential to go up dramatically for the room remaining students because the school choice option doesn't actually give parents very close to the whole percentage of the student funding that comes in the local school. So if school has ten thousand students an average total expenditures twelve thousand per student. And then half the students exercise school choice and they leave with approximately seven thousand dollars per student each that will leave the remaining five thousand students with about seventeen thousand dollars per kid per year instead of the previous twelve thousand per student as a massive increase per student should significantly increase options for those remains students this is basic math principal. Currently I think the average total cost per student state is probably about twelve or thirteen thousand each year for student. I understand learns Act will provide approximately seven thousand in the form of a teacher about your or an education savings account for parents to make other arrangements for the children to be educated. If every family in the State chooses this option it could result in massive savings for the taxpayers as local public schools can simply close their doors and auction off the property it would literally save billions in tax dollars obviously this is not going to happen. Now under what I really want to talk about the noble purpose of public school is that of sixteen educational deficiencies caused by social and economic brokenness. What is this mean the real world terms it means that many families are in shambles and that results in part in a series of let us in the serious lack of education among children the children of those families this extreme brokenness and families also results in numerous other failures and so many different ways including suicide drug abuse and high crime. Learns ACT is school choice bill will give parents the option to take their children out of the public school system and transfer their children and maybe about sixty percent of the average funding from the local government school or private school or to help fund home schooling. Well this bill is a massive increase in funding for education welfare programs. My real hope is that it will trigger a revolution in families waking up and taking big steps to get involved in the lives of their own children for me this is a long term strategy to reunite children with their parents injury establish the institution of marriage and family as the best situation for raising and educating children I firmly believe that strong families raising their own children are extremely valuable for building a stable society. I believe it is extremely valuable for the children I also believe it is extremely valuable valuable for the parents to learn from the experience of raising and educating their own children. My goal is for all families to become so functional that all parents take full responsibility for the education of bringing of their own children without any assistance from the government. I want all our Kansans Arkansas I want all Arkansas families to become so successful in life the all public schools close our doors because all parents are so great that they choose not to take advantage of any tax funded subsidized educational programs the goal should always be to restore the brokenness and families that results in the dysfunction that we see in so many families. The goal is not to preserve government institutions or jobs for government employees the goal is to make all families so successful both socially and economically that no child is ever educated a government program because parents take this responsibility for themselves as they should. Thank you. Thank you Mr Calvert members any questions for. With this. Seeing none thank you for your testimony thank you Committee. We will go Jesse McGruder speak against the bill. There anyway right indicates any excuse. I've been here all day and I want to make sure that my wife invalidate and I'm actually acts need to. You. It what you will be on public records are disintegrated you'll identify yourself and who you representing for the record satisfy the inquisitiveness of the Mrs McGregor thank you may see. Hi my name is Jesse McGruder I am at. Representing myself as an educator my six children my wife as the educator and my mom is a retired educator. I graduated from high school in Phillips County I am currently employed at Westminster school district I am a second generation educator my wife is also an educator I'm a five of six three girls three boys my daughter my daughters are all working within their careers my oldest son is currently enrolled in U. APP I have two children who are currently in public schools I also represent the PPC personnel policy committee at Westminster school district through my children's I have dyslexia and I'm also dislikes. I have a nephew who was also I to speak he seventeen years ago at all of these children have attended public school and they are thriving will in the delta we feel as if we would have been ignored or nobody has spoken with us about what's going on I know that do we say school choice is the option but we have no schools that are a or B. schools in the area I'm in West Memphis I'm from West Helena Arkansas I went to school with barred my wife works at Lee County she worked at school district are all over the Delta I can look at folks of families in Brinkley and there has been no representation would have loved to been at the table to have been spoken to about this bill and I know we all have been here for a long time so I'm not going to prolong the time but I questions are a hundred and twenty of a reading coach is when we are we every year in adults a worker all currency looking for educators every year West Memphis had looked with higher twenty five teachers at the end of the school year so we're always looking for educators and we're wanting how will go higher hundred and twenty a educators are concerned as I read of the entire bill Williams least I was here for fifty nine on Monday we got the information took me all night to read it but I'm a coach also in a in Arkansas state where I graduated from the day we went by to kiss philosophy keep it simple stupid as well without a hundred and forty four pages not keeping the sale. That's a lot of information to cover in three days I think the bill went to the Senate in in three days in or two days and then now we're in a week and we're already and Education Committee shall know what's on the way I grew up my wife graduated they will graduate three hundred students when I was in school. Sometimes three fifty right now to graduate seventy five students the doctor has been abandoned and we are really concerned about what how this bill is going to affect the delta area we are we had then have a seat at the table but we want to know what's going to happen in the future but I'm gonna leave you I will description look ten thirty and thirty three and Jesus answering said a certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho and fell among thieves which stripped him of his ram it and wanted him and departed leaving him half the and by chance they came down the certain priests that way and when he saw him he passed by the other side and likewise the Levite when he was at the place came and looked on him and passed by on the other side but a certain Samaritan as he journeyed came where he was in when he saw him he had compassion on him we've got to have compassion funded for adults Holly Grove time both Dollaway Lake View Elaine Parkin Turrell shoes all timer Crawfordsville and now Marvel all closing. What are we going to do in the future well we don't have schools in adults. That concludes my time or that's it for me Mr Berger. Appreciate your testimony We'll see anyone let up. Okay I'm sorry representative Brooks. C. thirty two you're recognized for a question. Area Mr thank you so much for your passion thanks for joining us and and hopefully your wife want to party too much for being a hold a long sentence a a significant commitment so I just want to as a point of clarification I I certainly respect your comments and your passion for the Delta and I do want to just clarify that the secretary and I as well as the governor a little more than a month ago have you ever seen the with a bill of ten or twelve administer superintendents in in Helena to specifically get input and talk about what's important to them and and really identify that there's great opportunity in adults and and I highlight what will my colleague senator Chesterfield said last week was that she saw the delta in this bill so as to make sure that that that it's it's on record that we have done our due diligence instance start of the conversation it's not the end of the conversation by any stretch of imagination but certainly want to make sure that we are clear that we are valuing that and by the time and effort is put in this bill so thank you so much for your passions. Yes Sir I know the superintendent and held the was on he's actually my fraternity brother I visit hello what's on every other weekend as for charge because my dad's a past that in a system at the church we appreciate you coming to the school but teachers need to be so talk to he just got placed in the position issue hello what's on is suffering right now because they don't have enough teachers that's wider and state takeover it's not because they're not they don't have the finances with they don't have the they're not doing a good job educating they don't have enough certifies that and that's what and state takeover. Mr just curious question you you made a statement that your west from West Helena she went school Barton is curious what made you decide to go to school of art it wasn't a choice hi my great my grandmother and grandfather bought land before I was born and I was raised on that land so we lived in that county area address in West Helena Arkansas but we were forced to go to school would board with the good thing about it my dad was on school board board also sure coach Franklin loved having you over there yes Sir thank you Sir thank you for your testimony today. To speak for the bill. To Sean o'neill. So Neil if you'll state your name for the record and who you represent you may proceed with your testimony all right I will good afternoon now my name is Shannon o'neill and I am a parent and a fifteen year community advocate and a resident of south west little rock when you ask me who am I speaking for I'm speaking for the tens of thousands of parents and students in southwest little rock who feel intimidated about the process and who may not have the time to stay here ten hours to speak but still need their voices heard. I stand here today as someone who is proud and a product of public education I graduated from Central High School I guided associates degree of Pulaski tech and I got a degree in sociology and a minor in psychology from the university of Arkansas at little rock so when I say that I'm a believer in public school I am however things have changed in over the last few years by maintenance staff west little rock I have seen some of the ugly and the bad that allow the royal rule areas I speak about that they fear we've already was Pat those things happen to us as a former PTA president in LRS the VIP and someone who has spent hours of community service and knowledge in regards to the strengths and weaknesses and the Arkansas education system I would like to say that throughout the years I have spent hundreds of hours attending these meetings to discuss the lack of accountability and the shifting of responsibility parents blame teachers teachers want parents and all the way out our kids are failing. Some teachers feel their voices have been muted for the fear of losing their job passes to these voices have been muted for the fear of retaliation and community advocates such as myself have been shut out in sometime isolated way from the schools stopping us from creating the stronger communities which we know equal stronger schools in southwest little rock we know that smaller schools along with as people have said here before those schools are known to give better statistical findings at the rate of success the teachers are able to spend more time with the children to see their weaknesses and their strength how they can challenge them and sometimes is these things can lessen the behavior outburst that we stand school so much when we talk about poverty someone who can speak that again I come from southwest little rock we had people talking about families with three and four pound in one home we have that in southwest little rock in southwest little rock we had J. a fair and McClellan close they will will not as and we're now facing some of our smaller educ elementary and al were other schools being close to going to the remodeled McClellan so when people talk about fear fear is something that my community has live with today and lives with every day and have for years because we wonder what school will close next when with the new schools opened with we fit and and will we succeed I have been to numerous meetings and we start I'm speaking about the kids but somehow it always veers into teachers salaries teachers doing is finding an except a rock I just want to take this time today by spending my day here to let you know that every time that we applied the closing of a school like this happen in southwest little rock we close macleod. And we calls J. a fair and it's going to be close and others you're also cheering for charter schools for my understanding is that the LR Esty policy is that when a school closes a public school it can have first well the first day of have to go to charter school so every time a school in South with closes when we say we are against charter schools and vouchers you're actually for them when you vote to close schools in southwest little rock I can look around I see a lot of familiar faces that I asked to unite that asked to stand with me when they were closed and schools and the schools is southwest we're failing they didn't have heat they didn't have air they didn't have turf to play football some didn't even have paper to send home workshops in worksheets for the kids to do homework I look around the state where were all of you via. Where will you the sixties collar ship is beginning eight point three million dollars for kids for years the vouchers the private schools what what where where we've been now it's like vouchers charter schools we're down with that but this is been going on for years I have never seen this many people come out and speak against or for but because of this bill can close your schools can put Joe schools in this state can have the same things that's happening already in southwest that will continue to happen now the room is full I can say that as the person who wants to work in the private sector there is no job that doesn't have anyone that you not use extra training let's just be real. There is no job where you're not going to have income despair missile news is half your time has expired if you'd like to make a final comment my final take comedies that we talked about takeovers already happened southwest little rock we also talked about things as far as zero to three being getting kindergarten ready we talk about micro schools I can go back to the African American and not to speak about slavery it is is as others have and when we started out we had a little log church house we have no paper no P. and one teacher issue and have no degree they went outside in the sand and the dark they added in some of those schools turned out the best minds that work so I ask you when we can get it together now with all this money and we want more and more and more I ask you where have you been. Thank you thank you for your comments saying no questions. Go to stone Faulkenberry. Mr Faulkenberry here. He had to leave. I'm sorry. Yes ma'am if you want to come to the table. You'll be speaking on behalf of Mr Faulkenberry yes eliminated just introduce yourself for the record also and and you may begin your testimony I'm going and Faulkenberry I didn't sign I'm a teacher but I didn't sign up to speak because my husband and daughter both did I thought that was probably in a fog and berries for you to hear from them but they've both had to leave so I'll read at the statement of my my husband yes ma'am. Good morning my name is stone Faulkenberry. I'm currently in my twenty seventh year of public education. I have a master's degree in educational leadership plus forty five graduate hours I have taught into rural school districts I spent four years in the gentry School District in the last twenty three years at the Ozark school district. Throughout the past twenty seven years I have taught physics driver's education physical education K. twelve US history and physical science. I thank you I've also taught eighth grade science coached football basketball and track been an assistant principal and driven a bus route. Even though I have taught different types of curriculum and and various things in public education what I have mostly try to do is love kids encourage them teach them to think critically treat others kindly and push themselves to be their best. When all of this teacher raise talks started with the previous governor I was thinking I had an opportunity to receive a ten thousand dollar raise what a morale booster for teachers. Then it went to four thousand and now I'm looking at a two thousand dollar raise this makes me feel devalued that I am not important and the job I do on a daily basis is not important. I do think it is good to raise the public school teacher starting salary to fifty thousand dollars but it is hurtful to take away years of experience in education steps from teachers who have been in education for ten plus years and have a graduate hours or master's degree degrees and I have heard nothing today that convinces me that won't happen. I have taken a personal day and paid for my own gas to drive here to ask you to please slow this bill down take the time that is needed to work through it the decision you make today when you vote on this bill will affect a lot of lives teachers students communities and my life. Please make sure the decision you make today is best for ninety two percent of the public of the students who attend public schools. In this state. thank you for your time. Members any questions for misspoke and bury on behalf of Mr Faulkenberry. Seeing thank you for his testimony speed to speak for the bill Erica horn. Page two. So if you'll identify yourself for the record the representative you may begin your testimony. One more time there you go all right thank you I am I am mereka warns and I'm here to represent my three sons I am a mother But I'm also here to represent those children who don't have a voice whose parents don't have the capability or the ability to be here today. I have a set of twins that have autism I started in their education career twenty years ago. My ex husband my husband at the time was a school teacher we went to our school that we both grew up and graduated from my husband worked at went to special ed director and said what about the boys started school here in kindergarten. She looked at as that in the face and she said what you to everyone for your voice is not here. With that are also for sale moved. Member center Arkansas. Unfortunately I moved into a district that would not hear our voice everybody wants to talk about You know that they that the teachers need to voice this needs a voice what about the people with no voices. What about the parents what about the students and we speak our voice. We're usually looked down upon right because we're not the ones that education degree or not the masters and whatever. So we're viewed as troublemakers when all we're doing is seeking. To do the job that god gave us to do which is to raise our children. So. Because of that we spent ten thousand dollars and a due process hearing against a local school district. Not for money if any of y'all no doubt due processes that is just with the board of education it is only fighting for educational rights for your children I am not again I was state on mom and I was married to school teacher you all we don't have ten thousand dollars okay but we did it because we wanted to see our boys get the education that they needed. We're basically shooed out of that district I called the local district Ellijay got to know her really well and I said how do I get my boys in your school what about school choice. She said Erica your was never get school choice you have to market they have special education needs on a form that it goes to me goes this big long process and we're the largest school districts in the state of Arkansas was never purchasing one. That time it was when the economy was crashing we could not sell our house. We let it go. With their credit with their future. For her voice. To this day I still have a student I still son has dyslexia and other learning disabilities and public school. Please don't ever make me choose again. To have to walk away from home that we have. Please make me choose again to give every dime that I have. To fight for my children please let me have the choice let me have a voice. To be the one to advocate for what I believe is best for my son's. Thank you everyone for your testimony members any questions. Seeing none thank you for being here today. Speak against the bill David Kendrick. He is gone. special Sanders speak against the bill. Deron Williams. To speak against the bill. Someone coming in the door. You identify yourself for the record and he represent and and would be glad to get you started this morning. We were more thank you Mr chair alley Tomlinson here I will be speaking on behalf of special Sanders if you'll allow allow the thank you so much as our under five minutes in case you just got here thank you so much I have been here all day but I appreciate that as I said Allie Thomas and I'll be speaking on behalf of special Sanders and I train advocates in the disability community so this is a very special treat for me to be able to reach you what a parent advocate has prepared my name is special Sanders I am an educator I began my career as an English and a second language para professional from there I became a certified high school English teacher and I am currently a literacy specialist my most important role is that of a parent I have a four year old son that will begin kindergarten in August he's autistic and he is mostly non verbal which means he has a very limited speech abilities presently he uses his picture exchange communication system or P. E. C. S. to communicate by using pictures section twenty seven at the bottom of page forty five of this bill has a lot of great information about how literacy will be taught to students and the programs that will be created to provide resources. Now there is seemingly little and are a little limited capacity to parents but I don't see where the bill specifically addresses the needs of students that aren't able to speak with or to their teachers I've completed rise training from K. through twelve and I'm also a K. through second rise trainer however the training currently being offered needs to be fine tuned so that it reflects the needs of my son and other students with similar needs special education teachers need the proper training to address the needs of students that use alternative forms of communication. My son stopped speaking at the age of two and didn't begin to speak again until he was almost four years old I know that our reality is not an abnormality I believe that this body of legislators has the opportunity to be a leader in education by making sure that my son and his peers aren't left behind he is more than his individualized education plan he deserves the same literacy opportunities that are being given to students that learn differently than him. Senate special Sanders also lives in a real community that doesn't have a private school or a charter school available to her. I will be able to take questions just about the and I'm peas or an. The literacy portion of that if any if you have any not about special centers actual and situation with her signage if anyone has any. Members any questions for misstatements and. Seeing none thank you for your testimony in for relating that on behalf of the centre sank you very much for letting me. Speak for the bill Carter Ford. Mr forty allowed into by yourself for the record the representative and you may begin your testimony. Good evening chairman committee thanks for your time today my name's Carter Ford I'm here to represent my family. I'm a my wife to agenda two daughters Lucy and Cheney we live in Little Rock we moved here from Batesville almost a year ago our youngest daughter Cheney was born with the genetic disability called his twenty twenty syndrome. I want to first say thank you to so many people across the state of Arkansas who have had an impact on Cheney's life especially the many doctors and nurses at Arkansas children's hospital and UAMS along with the mazing therapists of places like pediatric therapy associates and Sir see stars academy of Batesville and the easterseals academy alert revert on the rock. I would also like to thank all citizens of Arkansas in the leadership the previous and current administrations we often hear stories of how government doesn't work but our family is extremely grateful for the support we have received to provide our daughter with therapy and resources that she wouldn't otherwise have Arkansas is a good state full of good people and we are grateful to the entire state of Arkansas and for leaders of both parties who I believe have a strong bipartisan history of supporting the special needs community in Arkansas. The reality we face two year ago was difficult I had built and still own a business in Batesville we watched two families who also had special needs children that were older than our daughter Cheney both families went to schools in the basal area and eventually moved elsewhere seeking better learning environments and support systems for their children. Everyone moved to northwest Arkansas on the other one also moved to central Arkansas as we have so when we begin the process to transition to kindergarten when we already knew that we're gonna have to consider a number of options. It's important to mention that we love our public schools are older daughter was thriving a public school in Batesville and we are happy with their experience when it came to Cheney however in looking into special education programs IT peas and all sorts of other factors we realize the best opportunity for both short term and long term support for Cheney to reach our full potential was to attend the easterseals academy at Riverdale here in Little Rock. This is a private K. through twelve school totally designed for students with special needs the schools offer curriculum options that are available in public schools they're integrated with highly specialized teachers and therapists and perhaps most importantly they are a safe space for children like my daughter to thrive in a learning environment that allows her to be the authentic person that god created her to be. I'm proud to say that as a kindergartner the teachers at my daughter's school I found a curriculum that is already teaching Cheney how to recognize words that will possibly get for the opportunity to read one day something we didn't know would ever be possible. We are also proud of the community of people around Cheney her teachers therapists and other families to provide friendships and support in ways that allow Cheney to thrive like other kids just differently. The reality is the choices matter we truly don't know what is possible for Cheney and we're never going to limit her potential we believe that she is a beautiful and perfect child of god and deserves parents and society to push her to reach her highest level of independence and productivity as an adult just like any other child. I would like to thank representative Keith Brooks and administration of governor Sanders road listen to feedback and I believe are taking seriously the needs of students like my daughter. Well this bill does some great things to support education there will continue to be challenges that arise and I plead with you all today to continue working with the special needs community after this bill passes is there will be more work to be done I'm grateful to you all for your willingness and openness to continuing these important conversations. Thank you again from our family to the entire state and so that you all for your leadership we promise to keep you in our prayers and ask in return that you keep Cheney in your hearts as you make these important decisions that will impact our future thank you. Members any questions for Mr Ford. C. nine thank you for your testimony today Sir. Members as the end of the four list we still have several signed up to speak against. Next one on the list is Deronda Williams. Devin tubs. Tubs. Like what you said she did a happy dance appear. Your identify yourself for the record and he representing I begin your testimony Sir yeah my name is Devin tabs I'm from at two rivers high school I like sort of like your body else thank you for your time it is late I feel like my brother talked about needing some confirmation for his wife I've missed a dance practice today and shoe shopping so I kind of feel about like at like he does so at but I'm I'm glad to be here today and and I'm excited about change and I love to see things change and progress however and the issue is here is that this is not have to be all or nothing. And my grandmother spent her career as a kindergarten teacher and then administrator all in Osceola school district my mother spent the first sixteen of her at years teaching as a resource teacher Osceola elementary one of them I can't remember which one but one of them and now she teaches at river crest doing the same thing I believe and then now there's me educating and in high school I come from a line of this in the care and the passion is is depicts what I've heard my whole life and I even take special care to understand many of the testimonies and the stories of our at people on our special education community the first four years in my twenties I worked with adults with that disabilities through friendship I'm sure somebody in here heard of them before they're pretty large and then I went into teaching I I've I found a passion that I truly care about education so I can understand the needs and and not in the same way that they do of course because there's of their children and it means a lot more to them but I can see the needs on on that side and that's why I just think we're being on why does not to be too redundant as everyone else has been but I feel that we've been on wise to push this all through is just one issue. I'm not gonna sit here and read all this stuff to you I just need to count real fast what I have here and I'm gonna talk a little bit on school choice and then some school funding stuff like that I'm gonna try not to hit on just everything everybody else has however what I have here because I've spent several hours poring over these is one two three four five six that when I was from the front to at seven different studies over states such as Ohio Indiana Pennsylvania Washington DC all that show that school choice programs and they going to states have negative impacts on public schools and not only that but don't seem to show success in students I know that we've had several people say we've got studies and that's the beauty of science that the that we can interpret things differently however at the majority the evidence shows that there is no positive impact of a school choice program and not only that but we're we do see positive impact because there are some we're we do see that whenever you would just that for children who are middle income families have two parent households and do not suffer from the woes of poverty suddenly those benefits go away because those children would have succeeded anyways. What we see. With program such as this is a this just these these factions go to show that are most impoverished areas will not benefit from a program like this as shown by the educational Law Center in a study on spending in southern schools we can find and and the lady that talked about you know we can't do anything with all this money I agree with her because but it shows that Arkansas has had a low F. and F. a spending effort below the national average for several years and funding distribution between high poverty and low poverty districts that is way lower than the national average as well in fact Arkansas spending slowly crept up after the lake you view decision until act was to seventy two in two thousand seven and then after that public schools on a hole in Arkansas have seen at two point one billion dollar revenue loss over the whole not not yearly obviously but over the whole from two thousand eight to twenty nineteen over that whole time when when adjusted for inflation how much is funded per student so we have not yet we keep saying we spend all this money in education I and I recognize the large amount that we do spend but we have not yet truly made the investment in to students as we all keep saying to fund students and not systems. Because the thing is is with this voucher and school choice these issues comes equity once again we talk about equity and the eighty the equity issues involved here show again show that once again they were asked about whether or not there would be any accountability for private schools and and and other an entity's I'd look for the word for second other entities that would be able to receive these fines and and again there's not hardly been any presented whatsoever that they would still be able to turn down a child with a disability I know that one lady said here and she she tried the twisted as if you know we we present them with what we offer and if it doesn't work it doesn't work that was that was quiet top that was whisper FOR we won't accept them so once again our community of students with disabilities they're put down once again and one more opportunity is taken from them you see public education we fund public education because education is the opportunity for all it's the same opportunity it's where the rich and the poor put on the same level playing field it's where they are they both have the same opportunities if we take the school choice program it will only benefit those who can already afford the lifestyle changes that come with it unless we add extra funding to it those in our most impoverished areas that really not be able to benefit from school choice depending on them finding services that help them we would have to provide even more funding to them to make it work for their lives because they already cannot benefit in the same way that their more affluent counterparts can Mister Rogers times expired if you wanna make a final comment yes Sir absolutely lastly I would like to say that we believe in public schools and most of all we believe in our administrators we will stick together regardless of what's happened Senator Davis said that our administrators were either misinformed or at best misinformed at worst line and then we were told by the people that sat right here that they want to give or give over local control so it's very confusing to us on whether or not the. State trust or administrators or not but what I would like to say is that we trust our administrators we believe in our public schools we believe even more important than that in our kids and their ability to overcome if we would just be given the tools to make it happen in an equitable manner thank you. Members any questions for Mr tubs. Seeing none Sir thank you very much for your testimony today. Speak against the bill Shelley Smith. She had to leave Cheryl carpenter. Sure. All the stuff at the. Your. Do you need an excuse letter for that. Now I need to probably forty five dollars but that's okay I'll I'll I can have to occur on Carter do you identify yourself read as presenter testimony my name is Cheryl carpenter I'm a retired secondary school teacher and coach I knew that at the age of six years old that I would be a teacher I never wavered it was just who I am and my mentor was one of our friends of parents friends who was the physical education teacher at Jacksonville high school from which I graduated I currently am a care giver for a twenty six year old nonverbal autistic young man who went to a public school for elementary school and then went to the pathfinder in Jacksonville which I now work with them or work for them technically I began my education experiences in West Helena Arkansas teaching physical education inclusion physical education I might add I've been spent fourteen years at mount St Mary academy a college preparatory school and I in which I coach taught English MP in health and then sixteen years and Pulaski County special school district primarily teaching English and coaching at Robinson mills and north Pulaski behavioral analysts that we had way earlier in the day all of her examples where exactly what needs to be given to public schools every single one of them the ones that she what she was talking about you guys are going to have to go back because I'd forgotten all of them education needs to be reformed all teachers deserve better pay and more respect when students are reading two to three years below grade level and their remediated which I spent five years teaching remedial English to ninth graders. When there remediated and they improve one single day of the year. To be. One to two years below grade level but then are tested at grade level they are destined to fail. The system is flawed when testing is used properly both students and teachers can benefit those are true facts and they are worthy goals when something is authentic it's real when something is counterfeit it mimics something real to quote Jane Hammond a Christian author the deceiver formulates an alternate alternate path playing on our weaknesses he is subtle mixing formal formula filled with valid truth which cleverly disguises the lethal dose of poison made of lies and deceit beyond a certain person cheerfully and yes the potent combination believes he or she is receiving life and freedom. She's referring to Satan and that statement accurately describes what is happening in our country as and is being brought to our state regarding education there are some good things in this Act teacher raises more literacy coaches student community service I think it's a great thing the career pathway to graduation however eliminating the pay scale adding merit pay eliminating the teacher for dismissal act publicly funding vouchers for private schools which is a choice. People have the choice to have a free education or pay for an education. In public schools not for everybody I talk fourteen years in a private school I loved it but I missed teaching the regular kids the kids that that work as of. Maybe driven maybe disciplines all right so I went back and that I never talked about one eight the class and the rest was and was regular students because they're my passion The vaguely defined indoctrination section which is a slap in the face to students I want to believe that those behind this bill started out with a genuine heart for educational reform but somewhere along the way became misguided or misinformed by non educators along with their own desires to shape education to feel that their personal and religious beliefs. I struggle to believe that I want to but I I look around and I struggle to believe that I do not trust our governor I do not trust the imported Arkansas secretary of education nor the legislators who blindly support this blatant attack on public education even though they know that there are parts of this that are wrong but don't have the guts to stand up and say let's go take it back and work on it the large Act is counterfeit and those who support it are counterfeiters. Arkansas schools are not failing. The kids we are failing Arkansas schools and the kids table this bill or better yet vote no. Thank you. Members any questions for misspent. Carpenter. I'm sorry carpenter. Seeing none thank you for your testimony. Next is lease the Huell. Please forgive me if I mispronounce the last name. You'll lose yourself for the record and he represent you may begin your testimony. All right my name is Lisa Hughley and I am a middle school librarian. I appreciate your attention I appreciate the fact that. It's seven thirty and at night we're all still here but I just appreciate the the concerns that you have I feel that as B. two ninety four was pushed to quickly through the Senate. I just don't feel there was any way that the senators were able to read the entire one hundred and forty four pages of that bill or scrutinize the impact of the state of public education or that that it would have on publication cation in Arkansas I can only hope that you in the house of representatives will do better. I do have a few concerns one. And I've I've not heard it It mentioned we've talked about the the seventy five hours of community service which I work for a couple of non profits help them out I think the the community service is a great thing we can definitely use the help my big concern though is background checks. I've not heard that mentioned at all you know we're gonna put these kids with people that. We don't know and I have a a true true worry about that and then they talked about will ride shares and I'm thinking. Who are we sending our kids home with and so I I I just really think that that's something that needs to be addressed Teacher for dismissal Act was passed originally for a reason of teachers can still be dismissed. The way we have it now but there must be proven because we all know that some districts will dismiss teachers for any number of reasons and that there will be abuses if this passes I worry that merit pay. Will end up being based more on democratic demographics it it were were for those the demographics and not good teachers because I know there are some great teachers in C. D. and F. schools they just have their demographics they move so often that they those kids will never be. I won't say never but they have a hard time succeeding If according to our governor a schools of code is to blame for their low grades and fix what's wrong in that zip code don't let them just move to another school fix what's wrong in that zip code it's which that's what we've got to do because of the others leave the ones that are still they're still going to be suffering so we've got to fix was there of. Poverty areas they they talked about tutoring and high impact tutoring If we can't get the kids to school if they're missing thirty thirty days a semester they're not going to be going to tutoring their parents won't bring him to tutoring so do we pull them out of class and do they miss more instruction in class the I have a problem with that I'm afraid that vouchers will not help students in rural or poverty stricken areas. Those areas will continue to suffer and struggle vouchers have been shown to not prove student achievement so I have to question why so many are eager to create a system of education that ends up keeping diversity down. After reading this bill I for see a bookkeeping nightmare. I the accounting and the keeping up with who gets this and who gets that and you know I just I'm afraid it's going to create a huge bureaucracy and it will not be adequately funded those of us that have been around for a while have seen school struggle to implement legislation because lack of funding. Teachers have been vilified. Librarians have been vilified by too many people. Politicians included. One of the things that I have a problem with with that is that. How can teachers be respected in their classrooms by their students when they continue when the students continue to hear about how horrible the teachers are and how they're indoctrinating and all of these things. and speaking of indoctrination. If we send kids and give them money to go to religious schools. Will they not be indoctrinated their. I mean I'm I'm listening to some of the parents today and you know. There's someone not indoctrination going on there As a twenty plus year veteran teacher I taught history before I became a librarian. And I just want you to know that I prefer reading dystopian novels instead of living them. Miss you your time has expired if you make fun of my last statement I just ask that you do not vote for SB twenty two ninety four as it's written. I like the others believe that it should be broken up I think it's just there's too much right now. Thank you very much yes members any questions for the witness. Seeing none thank you for your testimony in today ma'am next to speak against the bill Alliot NO one. Stonyfield identify yourself for the record you're representing you may begin your testimony. My name is Allie Noland and I am here on behalf of myself as a member of the little rock school district board of directors and all nine board of board members we passed a resolution opposing this legislation in other legislative measures that will harm our students our employees and our community so I'm here not to speak AS one elected official but for the entire board. I'm first I so appreciate the committee members that are still here the fact that you're here listening gives me hope that you're actually listening and that you will take in what I would items on the speakers are here to say. I'm. I. A public school parent I guess I'm a school board member I am also an attorney with a background in education law and in fact I advise this committee when I worked on the Legislative team at the attorney general's office for many years so one thing that hasn't been talked about a lot is the fact that the state of Arkansas has a constitutional obligation to provide a public education and that is what obligation a responsibility that you have. Thank you cannot outsource the idea that you would save some money for the state by paying private schools less to do the job that you are obligated to make sure to make sure gets done well. Will not pass muster so let's talk a little bit about the fact that under Arkansas's constitutional obligation under the fact that the cases to pre and lake view we have a requirement for adequate and equitable public education you work broadening that umbrella if you pass this bill you are outsourcing their obligation and bringing in those voucher recipient schools into that role of adequacy and equity bility so let's compare the two under this bill what what public schools versus private schools receiving vouchers look like. Public schools would accept everyone we are required to accept all comers we have to provide all services sped services services for students with disabilities M.. You heard from some of the other speakers that a private school you heard from someone who runs a private school that if someone came to them that needed support certain services disability services and I have to say we can accommodate you we can't provide those services we cannot say that we have to provide those services and we do. So we also must employee license teachers we must meet all the requirements of state law including new requirement in this bill that only apply to public schools even in this bill you have provisions that you're singling out public schools for but not applying to private schools that accept vouchers let's talk about a few things like the. Requirement that you hold back third graders who can't read at grade level why is it not important to do that for private school students. Things like the fact that we have to implement career pathways safety training sexual abuse prevention curriculum why not do that for the students in private schools who are accepting vouchers for the state funded but you're not holding them to the same requirements. So. Public schools could be taken over if they do not meet certain requirements. However private schools under this bill it says if a student is not performing well thank you loser voucher to go back to public school. You are creating an unequal two tier education system where the public school has to accept everyone they have to provide all services the private schools can take the students that are easiest and cheapest to educate and give those students are performing well they get sent back to public school. That is inequitable and it will not survive. I'll also point out because the time is limited to have more comparisons about how the provisions do not apply equally but I will also mention. That this is not a partisan issue you have heard all day long. I want to point out a few examples of how the opposition to this should give you pause. Yesterday Idaho which is a state that president trump won with sixty four percent of the vote rejected a similar voucher bill the statement of the law makers with their conservative ballots would not allow them to spend that much state money with out adequate accountability they were also worried about what it would do to small rural districts that is what is coming for your small rural districts if you pass this bill. I want to. Slow down and talk to you as a fellow elected official I believe that everybody in here is trying to do what is right forget that miss Nolan hi your five minutes has expired so if you would okay set up in the next fifteen to twenty seconds please. Well I'm not into that I would love to answer your questions that you've been asking everyone and as a fellow elected officials at the end of all of this. I understand that you still have to see your friends and neighbors and coworkers at the grocery store and at church at the football game on Friday night and you have to answer for the decisions but you have made here you are being told that this will not have negative impacts on your district except the teachers and the administrators in our districts are telling you that it will you will own the outcome. Of this vote and we it comes to hurt your district your name will be all over. To answer your questions representative flowers I'll wait I'll wait to the question comes thank you a representative Garner Europe for. Sullivan I know you urine tourney and School board member you said yes could you talk a little bit about the transformation Khan contract says something that wanted to ask earlier and didn't get the questions answered. Yes I would love to and in fact I have notes on that so I have. Three problems with the transformation contract provisions the first one is that it is based on school grades and these are flawed and in fact it is not just me saying that it is the outgoing secretary of education who has argued for revising the school grades it is the editorial board of the Arkansas Democrat Gazette neither of those can be deemed to be you know radical left we're talking about bipartisan criticism of the school grades they reflect poverty more than they reflect and the quality of the teaching what is happening those schools and I'm very briefly going to break that down for you in LRSD for our. And schools here is the breakdown. The data shows that if you are an a or a B. school you have between fifteen to thirty nine percent of the federal poverty rate your your students and that percentage of your students falls there if you were C. school it's forty to thirty six percent of the property right if you're in the school it's forty two to ninety eight of the poverty rate in schools were eighty three to ninety seven percent of that property right these grades directly correlate with poverty so that is one reason because the transformation contract is based on this great the second. Problem with this transformation contracts is that it is not a real choice you know in law a defense to a contract is coercion in here this state is saying we are threatening to take over unless you do this and guess what if you refused to do it will take you over and do it for you. There's no choice involved there. The third problem is the fact that it is a practical nightmare I am a school board member it had to go out yes my voters for a millage extension to help repair or buildings how do I do that if I'm not governing some of our buildings because they are under transformation contracts how do we decide who gets to hire and fire the personnel in those buildings know the answer that was earlier was that these are contract provisions and that you can negotiate those the problem is the state has to sign off on those contracts to help the District of we take over so this state knows what it's threshold is. So why don't you put it bill. Make it clear instead of leaving all these are to answer questions and leaving everything so bait and that goes for so many permissions how many times today did you will hear will the department's going to have to make rules about that know your job is to know what the law you are passing is going to do. Okay so that is my answer to your question thank you. Members of the other questions for miss Nolan representative flowers you're recognized thank you Mister chair I heard her say that she wanted to give me their three yes have more distortion so yes I have more than three but I will be very specific about changes that need to be made to this bill remove the education freedom account section. Remove the transformation contracts section. Remove the repeal of the teacher for dismissal act. Remove the restriction that would prevent public schools from giving teachers more rights that are allowed in state law how are we telling our teachers that we respect and how we recruiting teachers of the state of Arkansas if we put in law the district cannot provide them anymore right the bare minimum. Finally remove all provisions censoring what can or cannot be taught in the classroom and allow that to be governed by locally elected school boards. Thank you ma'am for your testimony. Next is Haley Emmerich. Thank you guys for being here I make this pretty short my name's Haley Emmerich I am a math teacher Northwest Arkansas I'm an inclusion teacher so permit more than half my career teaching I am the regular teacher in a classroom the has a large percentage of special education students in special education so I know a little bit about special education and I heard a lot of people today talk about the the why they left their public school was their child not getting what they need what they need for special education and that is a problem. And we need more funding. It's not happening and so I didn't I'm not reading anything I prepared because it changed all throughout the day I can as a math teacher the numeracy section it's all good stuff I want to do it all I small group with students DO I one on one with them no there's not the resources. I'm I'm meeting with them in groups of four to eight most days and that's pushing my time with as a whole class instruction so these are great there is a lot in this bill that I I do like I'm trying to accomplish it but it's not being accomplished now because we're not being properly funded and this what's in here with the vouchers and when the kids don't meet third grade reading levels and how they. You're gonna hire people third parties to come in and help out all that's taking money away from what needs to happen yes these things need to happen RT I am a huge advocate of RTI we know kids come into kindergarten at year to reading skills their behind guess what's really positive about kindergarten majority of kindergartens grow kindergartners grow one year they make their annual growth we don't have a system for catch up growth and. Because it requires resources schools try it they say they throw out RTI it's really important but we don't have the resort and the manpower it requires small groups okay I said I keep it short I could go on forever use our representative candy that's your name right intact you made a excellent point tonight you said you to hold some you're in a room with twenty people will decide on the future of education that is true and you are rushing it like it's me planning for one week. This is huge it's gonna impact thousands and thousands of kids and teachers and families and if you want full transparency like secretary. A liver sorry said earlier than you have to break this bill up you have to provide full pick transparency you have to break it up and you have to take your time all right thank you all simmered with just two questions thank you for being your patience today and and just. You think three different times you said we don't have the funding we don't have the resources we have the funding but I'm looking at the sign up sheet and you are a teacher in the Bentonville school district I am who is the that's the highest in the best thank you as I believe the second highest wealth index of any school district in the state so yeah and you help me understand what you mean when you say we don't have enough funding we don't have enough resources okay so I'm speaking from. Different experiences in Bentonville I am very lucky so I am an inclusion teacher and my two classes that are my inclusion classes do have lower numbers twenty one that's a low number. and and I have someone that helps me four days a week and we small group two days of those two days of the week we small group like most of the day and then the other two days we do our thing. That's not that's for my seventh grade math class that's not even happening in all of our schools that's happening in the seventh grade math and English classes that are double blocked our eighth grade classes that I mean they're getting what they need but let me go back to my other experience specifically you said we don't have the finances we don't have a resource when I talk about we I've spent the majority of my career in silence springs and sounds rings has a much higher need and I worked as an inclusion teacher there as well and that I need that I'm and I'm talking and I'm talking I'm I work on school for campaigns I'm talking in a public school advocate not specifically in my district because I I'm very lucky with where I am but in some springs for example I love my I love sounds rings I had to take two years off because. It was a lot of need and I was getting overwhelmed with the high need and they have high need and there just aren't the resources to support the kids so as a teacher you feel like a failure because you can't give the kids what they need all the time because if you need to have a group of four but you have to have a group of ten or fifteen or thirty you're not providing the support that those kids need RTI works when you have small groups of two to four kids working on specific skills we're not providing the funding that allows for RTI at the K. through third grade levels necessary to make the growth that catch up growth that is needed to get kids on grade level and funneling money to the bouncers to different schools the private schools that have limited accountability if any is not helping that issue and as some people have said multiple times. The schools are taking all kids and even Bentonville as much as I love that bill and we are lucky we still have kids that have high so high needs and there's only one or one or two teachers in a room that F. twenty five kids so I say we collectively it's not just me okay thank you for your testimony. See not here Matt Grandin. All. What S. the. Identify yourself for the record he represent you may begin your testimony. Okay. My name is at Grandin I'm here representing myself I have. Two sons that I hope I pray grow to be good educated men. I went to public school a good public school. They both attend public school my wife's public school teacher both my parents. retired public school teachers I have. Several close cousins four of them there public school teachers. And to enhance the public school teachers. all right of speech prepared but if in the day. And I'd like to talk about some words used instead of going to specifics of this bill. These terms slash words like a school choice. School vouchers. Freedom fund. And disparity all means certain things. Someone we're gonna break it down school choice okay. School choice this is being sold as a way for disadvantaged or underperforming kids to pick a school so they can improve. This is the sad truth is most of those parents and kids are stuck in a in poverty okay they can't make that choice choice not available to. School vouchers. You know what about your it's just another word for word taking public funds in failing to a private school or accountability accountability is lower okay. The state has no mandate to fund. Public schools Health Services took for the student okay. I'm asking what I was gonna say about that because it will be very nice. freedom fund when you know what that is the truth that is the first thing every first word here that means actually something it's the freedom to give them the state money okay. Disparity that's another word for poor folks all right it's a hard fact is that these schools that are quote unquote failing have to deal with an ungodly amount of problems there students are. I hate to say it but it takes a lot more to educate these kids are they're they're working behind the eight ball already I mean there are a lot of the schools that deal with kids the only positive interaction they get with an adult is in a public school system. It's only meal they get and the only time they feel safe. And if you think the freedom Fund has something that's going to prove that you're lying to yourself. Another term I'd like to bring up politicians okay. I would like to say in here after sitting here all day I would be proud even privilege to call each of you statement and state when okay. The politician has a negative connotation I hope that after this bill is voted on whether passes or fails I'm still able to call you states men and women and not politicians okay that's all I have to say if it's far from us to ask a question I'll gladly answer them. Thank you Mr granted members any questions for Scranton. I thank you Sir for your patience today in your testimony. Christy Mosby. Read. You can lease. This Mosby you're recognized you limited yourself for the record you may begin your testimony. My name is Christy Leslie I am a twenty seven year that are an educator I am also the president of the Little Rock education association. and I want to thank you it's been a long day not just for us but I know it's a long day for you I can't even imagine so I do want to thank you for I just allow me the opportunity to speak but also to be attentively listening to all of the testimonies that are being given tonight. We've heard that Senate Bill two ninety four was the bench will eventually lead to the defending of public schools and that there should be more accountability for private and parochial schools it has been said that this is the largest investment in public education this state has seen. It was also said and asked that there has been a lot of talk about the teachers and the money but what about the students. That's what I want to talk about. What about the students. Since this is a public education bill shouldn't public funds actually go to the public schools to educate all students. Since the public this public school bill has the largest investment in education where is the learn the language concerning evidence based interventions that work such as funding. Funding schools to allow for smaller classrooms. Funding for social workers to help students self support students mental health needs funding to support the community schools model in more of our state schools statewide. It's through its through these measures that we truly invest in public schools and our students. I ask you to do what is right for our students are public schools in a public school educators and vote no on this bill as it is written amended so that the investment truly addresses the problems in the public school system. You've heard time and time again that parents have had to pull their or have chosen to pull their students with disabilities out of the public school system because their needs could be met if we had smaller classrooms we would have the ability to meet those needs right now I work in a public school I have twenty seven students in my classroom. It is almost impossible to meet the needs of every last one of those students one on one the way it was the way it is at the beginning of the year we closed the classroom we close the classroom because we were told there are not enough students I had nineteen my coworker had twenty one and my other coworker had eighteen. And we closed disclosed that classroom so that we could. Save some money that's what it was about it was about saving money. If we really want to make a M. and impact in a public school system please consider making some changes to this amendment don't just rush it through the way it was rushed through in the center in the Senate please take some time to make the amendments that are needed in order to truly fund the public school system thank you for your time. You Miss Mosby. The no questions. Jason Bailey. Yes all your early this morning so I appreciate you taking with us all not a problem I had changed my middle name to Jameson after the date the. You will lose yourself for the record and here representing a jewel more time. There you go and then you may proceed good evening my name is Jason Bailey I'm a teacher at Parkview arts and science magnet high school one of the leading public schools in the state of Arkansas and I'm so thankful that each and every single one of you are still alive and awake today listening to public educators come here and defend quite frankly the way that many people put food on the table to help pay bills and everything so thank you I appreciate that and actually everyone's looking at me right now so that's really good while ago we had a little little bill slack there but I get we're all busy so I want everyone to kind understand that. This is B. this bill has things that are necessary. Paying educators at a minimum of fifty KA by the way. Is good. But have you ever thought about actually going in the classroom and teaching yourselves. Because I guarantee you if you did it for a year you might be asking for more than just fifty K. it's a it's a pretty it's a pretty it's it's a pretty tough gig Private institutions and charter schools are going to exist. That is a reality however what this state receiving funds from the fed and receiving funds from my tax dollars and what you are to represent. The spending of those tax dollars. Is different for public schools than it is for private and charter schools and I get that we try to do this like co mingling of the terms for the past couple years. to be clear. Out of a representative Garner. Thank you so much for your questions today and all of you thank you for your questions there's a gentleman right there who actually have some really good ones but I feel like you were somewhat disrespected in the means of which you're the answers that were provided to you kind of went around and didn't really give you an answer so I thought I would purchase some clarity on that a private school and a charter school can deny as students admission based upon their their disability status that is a fact. A I I'm not clear as to why representative Brooks could not give a clear statement to a yes or no questions. It is a fact. That students can be denied based upon their gender expression or their sexual orientation. It is the fact that the buildings that are made for public education in this state are falling apart. And it is a fact that it is our job to make sure that those buildings and the people in those buildings are funded I always get interested in this like divide like apparently if you think about how you're going to pay your Hey the people that are actually working you're somehow putting students last when the road situation is if you make sure I can feed myself I don't have to worry or stress myself out so I get to teach the kids better I mean I don't I don't get it I'm just from the built in Arkansas so maybe there's something going on there Since I did mention that I'm from the delta one talk about rural communities at I am from stock art. And I wanted to make sure that I mentioned that if it wasn't for. Hi a public education that I would not be where I am today. That teachers are good at figuring out how to make people. I I really I'm not I'm not saying that lightly by the way I literally would not be alive to day if it wasn't for my English teacher miss Porter. And my algebra teacher miss elders because I am a gay man. And growing up gay in this state is terrifying especially when you are young and I would have made some fairy very finite and final decisions if it wasn't for educators public educators. Indoctrination seems to be the phrase that's catching a lot of fire and I am concerned about that being in this bill because. I don't necessarily understand what you mean by indoctrination it was very eloquently put while ago if I'm an if you have a student who is identified as who who is gay and they're in a religious school are they not being indoctrinated to believe that they're going to go to hell and by that when they die. Is that not literally the definition of indoctrination. what are the parts of this bill that I do like I I again I do like the fact that we're gonna be paying freshman teachers a livable wage however if you look you squish the school district up for those for those employees that are entering any cut off the top I know that there's language within this legislation that allows for us to still maintain steps but there are no funds to to ensure that those steps still exist later online I have a master's degree I've been teaching for eleven years and I actually have fifteen plus more graduate hours so I'm pretty expensive and I teach science that he'd eighty physics one AP physics two science and I've type environment science so as Bailey your time's expired if you like to make a final comment absolutely I'm the kind of teacher that we're having a hard time recruiting because my degree is difficult to get and of what this bill does is it does separate two different school systems and in fact the matter remains I will teach every single student. Charter schools and public a private schools will not teach every student. Thank you I see no questions thank you for your testimony Sir. Amy Walters. It's Walters if you'll state your name for the record the represent you may begin your testimony. Hi my name is Amy Walton and I will say this is being a bit of a whirlwind for me but I feel like I can stand before you and to give testimony for people that could not be here due to work conflicts or Various variables that they were just not able to represent themselves First of all I'd like to say that. I'd like to reflect on what we've heard today in the testimony that's been given and for many of the proponents for the bill we have heard autism over and over and over again in the special needs of the students I as well in the inclusion teacher I've talked I've had lots of experience in kindergarten I second grade and third grade so I feel like I can speak from experience on reading as well but it seems to me that this area needs to be visited and I know you asked the question everyone of you ask questions a few moments ago I believe was you I represent eleven that you wanted to know how the funding we fell under funded well as you can hear from the testimony of the parents they students have a lot of needs they have a special needs for therapist and different things and I just feel like that that is an area that our school we also had someone give testimony earlier during the morning session that schools have been asking for funding and that is in a so I just want from from that just from the test when it was given today let's just as we consider this bill not forget that that's definitely been an area that's been highlighted. also. I feel a little scatterbrained because it has been a very long back but Also I would like to speak on behalf of the IDA it was mentioned this morning that we could depend on private schools for their good will or a good faith. And adhering to the special needs of students I think that's a dangerous idea. And I feel like with public funding that they schools as well should be held accountable. to the same standards that I am in a public school setting. I want to touch on the literacy coaches that's something that we haven't talked about that much but I know that's one of the plans that we would hire more literacy coaches I would like to ask that in consideration of the hiring of Larry Teague coaches that they would have designated contract time that they work directly with students you know as I know that in all fields experiences the best feature. And that's just something that I would like to request and that be reviewed I would as well like tax that we slow down this process because it's a world win for me I mean all of this is being presented so quickly it was difficult for us to obtain a personal day under short notice to even get here today to represent others that would like to be here and there's so many things I'd like to say let me kind of research here I know that some people have highlighted that fact that we're talking about money we're forty eighth in the nation for pay yes we're talking about money are we excited about a pay increase absolutely we work from year to year with minimal income increments for our pay raises we were encouraged to get higher education for the benefit of our students by salary increases I would like to ask that I'm so thankful that you guys have included the salary schedule but I would also like to ask that you including that salary schedule those higher degrees. We work full time jobs many of us pursuing those higher integrates we paid for those higher integrates they matter and I do make a difference in our students. Summonses gas I'm sorry as Senator Tucker and so many others have highlighted that the relevance to poverty to student performance. We talked about doubling damn. What we're going to double down on that's my question what are we doubling down on the science of reading has been studied over and over and over in my fourteen and a half years experience every program I have done has all said one thing that funding make awareness is the key if we have students that are impoverished and they are struggling we cannot expect them to come to school and continue compounding what we want them to know and expect them to know would it be such a profound idea to slow down and make sure that those students who are already struggling PC out of physiologically get mastery of what they have to have to move forward I look at fiscal record reports I've read them that come from the state each year and we are we are awarding districts districts that already are wealthy. They don't have they have the less percentage of impoverished students and they're getting the extra funding at the end of the year based on testing scores this wall your time has expired if you like to make a final comment okay let me just I'm I am and transportation as well I'm a bus driver so I'm concerned about the safety of our students if you are not required to have a CDL license Why are session so much retention I'd like to take the words held back out of out of our vocabulary because it's an opportunity is what it is it's an opportunity that's what we're hoping for stays it thank that they can be successful and is third grade not to light it's been many years since I've studied. Saikat the psychology and physiology but I believe third grade was a window when when your brain was not optimal are you know that window is closing. Thank you thank you Mr. Yes yes ma'am I understand thank you for your patience today. Winston Simpson. Simpson if you identify yourself for the record and let us know who you're representing and you may proceed I know my name was the last one on the bottom of the page I signed hope I I'm not the last we'll. No Sir there are several other names so I'm not sure they're all here I appreciate all all of you stay in here thank you yes my name is Winston Simpson I served. As honest as a superintendent and and other central office positions in Arkansas for twenty seven years. And during that period of time. I participated in quite an evolution of state funding in Arkansas. Now more versus do pre the first one that I am aware off. the Lake View lawsuit. Offer testimony in both of those chords. Our work recess state senators and representatives to shape legislation after the court's decision. after I retired. I wrote the financial feasibility study for the formation of Jacksonville school district. And a little later served as a. financial I guess they call it a school finance expert to the attorney general's office when The can you think of the name of the little school district now that sued the district over the funding system. I represent myself I'm here of. It may have use an all behalf of public education. Are really date myself when I tell you this I remember as a middle school student a castle Grande Arizona sometime in the middle fifties. writing an essay that us somehow. President Eisenhower doesn't have had a role to play and having kids all over the country write an essay titled public education is a cornerstone of democracy I believe that I still believe it is and I see. Several things in this bill that I believe will be placed public school education in Arkansas at a disadvantage as it competes for. Our state funds. to maintain a position of being able to recruit and retain Teachers and principals that will serve the students of the state where all and as others have said public education in Arkansas serves about ninety percent of this Arkansas's school age students today I think it's very important to protect that there are four specific areas that I would call your attention and Mr chairman did you approve distribution of the yes Sir you're led away has doubt if if you those of you that are still here I appreciate you being here there there are a. Is sort of a memo format on the your time is running a little short you mark your time start to run low short all right there two ways that. This bill takes money from public schools one is the likelihood that more families will choose home school private school it secretary and that spreadsheet on the back side represents an effort to depict the effect of loss of enrollment on five school districts that I chose it you know in some ways it may not look like much but if you look at that last redline you know what Cabot insight will lose in two million dollars and center ridge and a hundred thousand and a ratio hundred sixty seven thousand parable two hundred thousand but I can guarantee you and everyone of those school districts to get that much less money in foundation aid is going to be a real challenge and probably given the small loss of enrollment that I used in this example. They're not gonna be able to cut staff in any appreciable way they're not going bill close schools they're not going bill shorten the their transportation route. Very quickly on the other side. the voucher program has the potential to one take a lot of money away from public schools and secondly place public schools and very stiff competition for state funding you know against prisons and Medicare and all of the things you guys have to fund. The data I got from the farm education would say that there are about. A forty five thousand kids a little more in home schools public private parochial schools this is there's no money time has expired if you like to make a final no money in the state budget for those kids now if they were funded that's over three million dollars and that doesn't even try to attempt to account for. More kids going into those schools because of this bill so my please enter your. Yes don't do this there are some good things in the bills vouchers not one of those things salary schedule preventing school boards from giving benefits that are not required by the state's not good no wonder. We will take couple questions Sir if that yeah sure. Representative McKenzie you're recognized for a question thank you Mr thank you R. Simpson for providing this document I'm sorry I didn't hear use. As a thank you again for Ferguson for preparing this document it's well thought out I do have a question again as we create a projection for student loss and districts how do you reach of three percent loss over three years that's based on this bill in the second year of implementation it allows for funding up to three percent of the of the number of students in this is that or in a public schools to previous years ago and last the first year the bills got a percent have second here three percent third year no limit okay a follow up you're recognized this all up thank you this is assuming that we cap out entirely not just the parameters of the bill says forward in terms of how many kids and the students are applicables that's this these these figures are just based on if the program gets a hundred or based on what if the program gets a hundred percent per dissipate shin in the third out yes the truth the three million A. S. K. thank you Sir yes and certainly I think you guys are going to be faced with if you pass this bill an act these provisions. You're going to be faced with a lot of angry patrons you're gonna say. You pass the bill you promise this why don't you funded. Representative garner you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chair and first of all I want to say thank you doctor Simpson to your service to fable in northwest Arkansas sure thank you very much My question is with your experience in these lawsuits and the the service you provided there can you tell us from this bill do you have any qualms about the inequalities here and the potential for a lawsuit after this bill is passed. The will of the first one that comes to my mind comes from the alma lawsuit. Of course that's been so long ago I from the Senate got forgotten some of the details but. The primary issue there that led alma and a few other school districts to sue the state. Is they had come up with a way of distributing state aid to schools that would begin to that would get to what they consider to the equity pretty quickly. I was working at a little rock district at that time. And the Little Rock district wanted to argue for. An approach that would phase it in over a longer period of time. And So we we came up with a formula. And the. Our Senator that was kind of the lead person and all it from not just. Little Rock but several other schools. I said don't talk around the Legislative delivering stand that is too complicated. I'm just gonna get a pass out half of the money on the number of teachers which is a big part of what they had been doing passing out all money just on the number of teachers that. A school district's head so he said okay I'm going to get another half of the money on that basis and have phone I'll just say alums plan. Okay that was kind of the needle that broke the camel's back that Alamo group said all we're done we're going to court. And A lot of the money in this bill is passed out on a per teacher basis. Thank you thank you very much representative painter you're recognized. Thank you Mr Dr Simpson thank you for your testimony thank you for this by the way skews me. Are these these five schools you just randomly select on what one of which were Leo okay and be honest with you the other four were chosen because. People served on this committee gotcha. And I didn't do more than four because I didn't think I'd get. Follow Mr in order to make sure you understand about that chart. This is not a prediction of the State a that those school districts would get and you know for years now it's simply trying to them and all of the variables except average daily membership were held constant in an effort to show the effect of changing average daily membership okay thank you follow you're recognized. If you were superintendent today. What are some aspects of of the bill that you like. I liked the emphasis on the. Early childhood education literacy and numeracy. I don't have enough expertise to tell you that it's done well you had other. Witnesses say that in the address some of those issues but those issues are good and the. You're a big part of this bill we want your money going to teacher salaries that's good I just think it's done incorrectly okay thank you Mr. Representative back you're recognized thank you Mr chair of. The Memphis school district cell. Name of this school district as I understand it they they have an open policy with one of the school district which is just near to them as far as ministers back and forth so if the students these thirteen point seven seven students that you I guess that's what you're saying right in this to chart if they want to one of the school district would that shut down into this to. Would you ask that again welcome it was a different song licensee for what's the difference between those thirteen are close to fourteen school of fourteen students is going to another public school could they not do that already. There what school to go into thank god one of the. Of the fact there is no yeah I wonder if you would be getting the money for those kids right but you you presented this as in effect on the in the best what I'm saying is it be the same effect correct right all right is there any private school in that area rounding up missed. What sure in Morrilton Catholic school I don't know about others about products which is further away than the next. In school correct right. Hello yes now thank you. Saying no more questions thank you for your testimony Sir. Caller bishop. C. column bishop of yours. Bishop if you identify yourself for the record and. Let us know who you're representing and then you're welcome to begin your testimony. March more time. There you go. Thank you and good evening committee members so just my name is Kyla bishop and I am a staff attorney with disability rights Arkansas on my focus exclusively is on special education issues and there are two concerns that I just like to briefly touch on we've talked about whether you know private schools are required to accept students with disabilities and they are not that's already been answered but it should be clarified again even these so called specialty schools that Are supposed to be tailored to meet the needs of students with disabilities still have the choice at the end of the day to deny a student either at the time they apply or if it becomes evident during the semester that that public that private school either can't or won't serve their needs second and I hadn't seen this talked about very much Are you today are experiencing a mental health crisis more and more students are struggle with depression anxiety and just trauma in general. the Bill. Interestingly enough Addresses this is three ways first we have the removal of the youth mental health training youth mental health first aid excuse me which was an eight hour course of put on by the Arkansas safety commission and and that has been replaced with a more vague youth mental health training. second the bill establishes behavioral a threat assessment teams. And these teams are charged with. We're locating and responding to two threats in the school as it relates to students These teams are are comprised of you know they could be eight to ten members in in the bill it doesn't really specify how these teams should be made up however there's nothing in the bill that would increase direct services to students things that we know what help such as mental health therapy qualified behavioral professionals in the school at center and then we also have a More focus on SROs and SROs the training for youth mental health first aid has also been removed for them and it I think it places SROs in a difficult an unfair position to for them to be expected to respond to these situations without adequate training we need more professionals in schools that are using evidence based trauma informed practices. And things that are pro active rather than just responding to a threat That's all for now I'll take any questions. Thank you very much for your testimony members any questions. Seeing none. Thank you for your testimony Kyle Smith. Mr Smith you'll identify yourself for the record and a stuff you're representing you may search testimony. I am Kyle Smith I'm here on my own behalf and thank you Mr chairman and committee of for the opportunity to speak to you tonight on this while it is still safe to do so without risking my job I am a seventh generation or Kansan a graduate of fable high school but really I'm a product of a rule Arkansas school when I was in the third grade in the Starks class look better and I said to be math teacher because I just really like long division I was at that school from head start through eleventh grade and it had a big impact now I'm seventeen years into my career as a as a math teacher. And that's an interesting spot. This morning when representative Brooks said that fifty thousand dollars was a good place to start and and was gonna be great for teachers in the first half of the career I don't know what happened in here but outside there was a gasp sucked all the air out of the room and everybody's like what about teachers in the second half of their career. In the coming polls and scratch my head because. When I'm except a scale after thirty years I'll be fifty six and I don't think I will be ready to retire so what about teachers in the third half of their career. in in the first few years of mine those with the folks the ones who'd been teaching for thirty or forty years that taught me the most about being a new teacher and and learns that while. Now that fifty thousand dollars sounds great as long as you're not stuck there with in a state where the median income for families is actually sixty two thousand. It's a different perspective. I just worry about what we will lose on the upper end of our experienced teachers shall. I'm. That's the enemy talking about teachers and and trying to make an emotional plea folks back home no I don't do that real well more of a numbers guy. this morning commissioner leave. All of a he said that this bill is about doing the things that have the biggest impact and I hope I got that quote right because then it was followed up with a lot of research says and data says and I'm still waiting for the citations on those. In educational research and we've got this guy John had a he's kind of a kind of a rock star who has run a massive on going that a study of academic research the trick with educational research is you can pick a study that says anything you want and you can find other status of something different and he has and I apologize it's gonna be a little bit Denson thirty for. Eight forty five at night and going and you're thirteen tower but but please bear with me here He has looked at thousands of academic studies on accident on educational interventions and rated low more than two hundred fifty of them measure their effect sizes and it's a little wonky so and I didn't bring my visual inspection grab your pen and just mark a horizontal line on a piece of paper and put point four zero next to that. Point four zero is John Hattie's effect size that represents an intervention that equates to one year of economic growth so I told you this is not gonna be all about students this is about student academic growth. There are a few things that are negative numbers well below that point for. Not moving between schools negative point three four that's what will happen when students students and families using vouchers are bouncing back and forth between public school and private school in getting sent back. grade retention negative point three two that's equivalent to losing almost a year of of academic growth that's what we're proposing when we hold back third graders. On the positive side religious schools are point two for home schools appoint one six school choice point one to charter schools point zero nine these are all showing positive student growth but well below. Less than half of what we would consider a successful year of school for students. A teacher incentive pay. Sorry I had to come back to that point zero five almost nonexistent impact on student growth. Interestingly the number one most effective factor that that John had the rates is collective teacher efficacy. And we know that to mean that those teachers working together for every student in our building when we do it together without regard for my kids and your kids we do have but we do better work and so I'm really concerned about competitive metrics the pit one teachers kids against another for for merit pay in a limited system is Smith your time has expired if you like to make one final comment sir all wrapped that up by saying I believe that we have a pretty hefty contract with a consulting firm called solution tree that makes Arkansas a professional learning community at work state that is based on the pursuit of this collective teacher efficacy and I worry that were undermining that effort public school teachers want to do the best we can for students if getting the impact is the purpose of this bill we're doing it the wrong way thank you. Thank you Sir see no questions we appreciate your testimony. Lucas cannon. Laurie lamb. Dr Jane Weber. Laura Vieques. Chris Goring. Stephen Bergen. Mark the sand in. Cindy Ross. Clint. That's it stack Love. Donna mori. You are the lucky winner. Smaller if you will. State your name for the record who you represent you may begin your testimony. Good evening I'm Donna mori I'm executive director of the Arkansas retired teachers association I was a high school coach and teacher for thirty five years and I believe in the shot clock in the pitch count clocks so I'll keep it real short. Three things first of all we do not know the impact this bill will have on the teacher retirement system. Actuarial studies will take time there's just no way to project what that how that may affect the system. Okay. That's number one strike one strike two up I'm a representative. Classified employees. From my time is the a a president and I have members now that are classified employees and I did my heart hurts how they've been disrespected by not having the race in this bill this really saddens me. Anyone will tell you you can't have a school without classified employees and it's just it's just a travesty. Number three of. In my organization of over twelve thousand members we have over four hundred thousand years of teaching experience public schools and that none of our group were asked for any input on this bill several of folks were here today. we will be glad to volunteer with the department and help any way we can in the future. I think you feel look through the annals of history this may go down as the longest committee meeting that in that I remember I've been in the gallery this late at night when they were in a committee meeting thank you I know you're public servants to. Thank you miss Morrissey no questions we appreciate your testimony. Jenny Curtis. Your state your name for the record and who you're representing you may begin your testimony. Thank you Jenny car us I'm basically a retired grandmother at this point and I'm representing myself and my family which includes three proud and very successful graduates of the Little Rock School District I now have four grandchildren the oldest is a current first grader and. Thriving in the little rock school district I really come to give you the perspective of a parent volunteer who has spent twenty years monitoring education policy in this state and I've done that as a long time school volunteer who has who spent seven years on the Arkansas state PTA board and served as president of the Arkansas PTA in two thousand seven to two thousand nine. That position put me. To where I was asked to serve on a number of task forces and committees studying various education issues those included the Pygmalion Commission on alternative education the task force on adoption and rollout of improved core curriculum that we know is smart Corps. Improvements to early childhood education that resulted in the better beginnings rating system and I served on the original steering committee of forward Arkansas in twenty fifteen during that time I met and worked with people from all over this state who are passionate in working to and courage policies that would enable Arkansas to fulfill its constitutional mandate to. provide and maintain a general suitable and efficient system of free public education as our constitution states That began with the in the wake of the Lake View decision with The New adequacy study pike in the notice revision of funding formula of the facility study so many good and positive things have come out in the last twenty years however there've also been some things that were. There were where a lot of promises were made about how they were transforming improve education that I have seen have not really fulfill those promises No child left behind we saw that and the advent of high stakes testing that resulted in schools being labeled given grades and the shaming and blaming that came along with that. Those of you who have been in the legislature for several sessions no that school choice is not new to this session this is been around for twenty years and every session. There's more and more. Charter schools twenty years ago we're going to be the great innovator the experimentation was gonna lead to all public education being improved. A. The statement that that I here today was being said back then the children are trapped in failing public schools and charter schools would fix all that in reality what we saw especially in Pulaski County where we have proliferation of open enrollment charter schools is that the students who left the Little Rock School District of those eighty percent were already proficient in their current schools so not only were those failing students taking advantage but the schools they left then. Their grades went down. So back to monitoring education policy in twenty years I have never seen. A hundred and forty four page education bill being tried to be passed this fast I'll just say that and those of you who have been around no that the groups that I served on spent a lot of time looking at research based proven solutions to education problems. Early childhood that is something that over and over again and there been many studies children from birth to five that is a critical age it is mentioned in this bill but it is not specifically funded in this bill Career education I think that's very important again it needs to be funded so bottom line I know what you really want to know is. What what is good and what do not not approve of so I do think early childhood if you'd find it we still have never seen even over fifty percent of the students that are eligible haven't slots in the ABC program. A state fund that that's a proven area is Jenny your time has expired if you like to make one final comment the and I and I opposed education freedom account because it's not a proven solution and to fund that at the is at the level that this bill says and not on proven solutions I think would be a big mistake thank you very much yes ma'am members any questions for with this. Seeing none thank you for your testimony. Debra Goolsby. Glan. Nishimuro. Lance lebar. Some of our fuel state your name and who you're representing for the record and you may begin your testimony. Yes I'm last live our I'm a private citizen parent of three children here on my own time to speak. I have over two and a half decades of experience in education and I've been administrator teacher building at all levels have been high college adjunct faculty I've done district five oh four as well as other supports I'm here with that knowledge and experience You we talked to hit a few points which is one we talk with a professional learning communities and I just want to say how grateful it is that this this body has put the time into that that's where we may find out more about some of the answers the questions the representative McKenzie asked about what types assessments and tests and things we need to have that's not the point of my prepared topic but feel free to ask me questions about that afterwards I want to tell you a little bit about some of the issues with the bill you know I think the bill itself there's a lot of really good you've heard that but I want to get a couple points that that are are some concerning sports is talk about vouchers and I want to give you you know I'm I'm one that in god we trust everybody out these data so I'm gonna give you a few things let's talk about a Florida. Twenty twenty report from the century foundation so the forty which has a a voucher bill that's been around and and earlier was spoken of this successes it's at they had over a quarter of a million other students dealing districts under federal D. D. regular de segregation orders. Twenty twenty two Florida and Louisiana another robust vouchers has over half a million students in districts under desegregation federal court orders according to the southern education report that they put out in twenty twenty two so we don't have success in those. Why we've been in the funds that's what Tucker gaining third graders fortunate to build already talked about John Hattie so how to describe them to you but let me tell you that the seventh most likely to cause poorer performance future in there is. Retaining students. Barely beating out. Corporal punishment which is not discussed in this bill. As another major it engagement of poor performance. Students entertained in the third grade will be nineteen years old when they're in high school if they're not retained or drop out before then I think those are the ones we need to be worried about being in our locker rooms and not a transgender youth. Section five oh four IDA is referenced throughout this legislation. But the only place in A. Clark through spot is there one spot mentioned section five before the civil rights law. Although Senate bill seventy one is showing me that civil rights that term is an app but it's some legislators in Arkansas. The K. two five instruction restrictions I'm just gonna tell you I'm excited for the door you have open to what I can challenge instruction by the way that it's written. Pay scale let me say this a lot of talk about how great is our lowest pay. No details about what it does to a high estimate paid teachers and we have these promises they're going to have some way to resolve these funds but nobody has any details let me tell you let me give you numbers how this really works out based on that fifty thousand in two thousand by raising all teachers to fifty thousand adding two thousand to those over fifty thousand we will go from the fifth ranked forty fourth in the lowest paid teacher with a master's degree. To nineteenth place. Not that. I will be ranked forty fourth for the back highest bachelor's salary and after this is just what we will be forty fourth. For the highest bachelor sorry. We will bill we are currently last place for the highest master salary in the U. S. and what's this bill comes through we will be last place for the highest master salary in the U. S.. We are last place for the highest teachers are whatever that reason and once this bill goes through we will be last place for the highest salary. It was mentioned that the teacher contract renewal date that's still going to be there and it's not pulled from the bill I'm not sure where that is because on page sixty two line two it states may first as well as Boston of the contract and that is stricken through in this bill. And then you know I'm not gonna go anywhere to see R. T. critical race theory that some confuse with culture relevant teaching or criterion referenced tests but let's just put it clearly this is what Mr level C. R. the last statement I'm done I know that my second reading thank you very much if you in its fact sheet diversity inclusion activities under title six the office for civil rights and that's all rights term again in the US department of education stated title six does not for example categorically prohibit activities such as instruction on or training on the impact of racism or systemic racism. Thank you I appreciate the on time you guys of that I've been here all day in a couple different meetings so open any questions thank you Sir members any questions for missile of our. C. nine thank you for your testimony Sir road rains. Strains if you'll introduce yourself for the record and. Also you're representing you may begin your testimony yes good evening and thank you committee for hearing us today my name is rose rains and I'm a Jacksonville native city council member americorps alum and civically engaged constituents involved with the Joint Jacksonville historical districts A. R. kids read and Arkansas americorps alum association just to name a few. I'm here for myself and the Kansans dedicated to our state who could not be in attendance today. I genuinely believe that you all as peers I believe that you were working for the best interest for children in Arkansas however I do not believe that SB two ninety four is in its entirety is the way that we move forward which is why I am here to speak against it today well I maybe high functioning I was not diagnosed with autism when I was going through grade school and I was that students that you guys have been referring to who'd missed half a month or more of school every semester I was that student who's developing condition and needs of my chronic illness that hospitalized me up to a week at a time throughout my public and private school education we're at times held against me. Unfortunately there were not as many resources for students who did not fit the norm then as there are for kids today and while I do believe that we have moved forward in part to the lead pass legislation that came through this committee we are far from where we need to be we is the public sector are constitutionally responsible for those developments to meet disability rights not private schools to support our less fortunate children you guys when I volunteered to read to the kids who fit the two thirds statistic you all speak about without a personal understanding of I have to take into account that they may not have slept the night before because their household headed domestic disturbance therein to stomach wouldn't let them. There was a shooting in their apartment complex the night before and so many more complex situations that wraparound services instead of a voucher program to those who already have the resources to go to the schools will help those students in need. Help them succeed and. Parents in fear of the reduced funds which will. Because a reduction in the quality education as a result from fleeing from these public schools equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome which is what you all say you're here for speaking on trying to raise literacy rates I appreciate little sparks of light in this Christmas tree Bill like the additional regulations to hopefully protect our children from sexual assault but I'm concerned for the many children who experienced their first sexual assault before fourth grade or younger. If we completely banned a sex educational conversation instead of working out how we should go about that dialogue. As the community volunteer ambassador for Vicksburg national military park for two years I would pass the sword of justice when then our state monument each and every day that I served and thinking about the late Mister happy from SMS A. and coach remain from the former north Pulaski who taught us how to learn history from primary incredible resources not a checkbox checkbox education that can often missed the mark in shape the developmental process kids go through and their future with skewed mindsets that creates instead of using side in a loose of trigger words it has been asked and I will ask again that we clearly just fine what indoctrination methods were actually talking about instead of using terms like critical race theory that may make our teachers afraid of even mentioning the year sixteen nineteen afraid of teaching that Vicksburg was the key and wouldn't have been the campaign that we know today if it weren't for the United States colored troops valiant efforts or teaching the many other difficult lessons we all are responsible for learning and rising above rising above would. Be not to have one sided legislation that I type at a tax ideologies for learning our history when it comes to race and speak out on the overall indoctrination Sir children are subjected to in this state like white supremacy Christian leaders some just to name a few miss ranger time has expired if you'd like to make one final point yes I hope you all see the recommendation at the beginning of this meeting by having open ears and an open mind set I hope you all put aside that spring break goal that you guys obviously have and reach out to the abundant resources within your constituents who ninety four strong team to collaborate with you all today and the school administration administrators and educators who were not included in the conversations before this bill was drafted. Members any questions for miss Raines. C. nine thank you ma'am for your testimony thank you Stacy buff. Okay. But I move on to the next one Michelle Roberts. Caroline Morgan. Caroline Morgan. That's the last name that we had signed up members thank you very much for. Attendance today your attention. To all those who came to testify today we appreciate your input. I see no other business we are adjourned.