State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs-Senate

Senate state agencies will come to order. First bill the three forty nine. The No sponsor here we will go to three fifty three. Thank you has an amendment. Sir Dotson we get three fifty three on the table. With your amendment. The deal go ahead for the amendment now. Yep go ahead and. Thank you Mr chair the amendments to SP three fifty three just adds knowingly there was a drafting error it was missed in an so. Well make a motion Dotson second by Senator Tucker all in favor say aye. All opposed Like sign thank you senator Dotson we will hear this later. Senator English the Senate bill three fifty six. There's amendment on this will also. There are. Good morning Senator Jane English district thirteen I have an amendment to the bill here. Just to explain your management and then it just adds the optometric association to the part about giving the secondary school of department education the ability to work with them on training and nursing provision. Three questions from members. What's the will of committee on the amendment. Look motion to adopt by Senator Tucker second by Senator crawl all in favor say aye. All opposed Like sign. Or at thank you senator bless you are welcome to proceed with your amended bill thank you very much this basically this bill abolishes inactive state entities we have a lot of boards and commissions that haven't met in over a year they don't have any and some of don't even have any people involved in many more so this this kind of cleans up some of our boards and commissions and delete some of them in the moose of the things that they were doing to other agencies could be to the Department of Parks and heritage could be to the game and fish commission or to pardon of sin Education right if things like that. Sirventes Senator English during questions Senator flowers. Thank you for Senator English Three sand. None of these. Boards or commissions that you've listed here. Page one and two. Our active by. So. The academic facilities oversight committee that's part of the the with the department of education. So it's been moved to the Department it it it has been part of that but it was set up for five years ago and they were looking at something that governor Hutchinson appointed a group of people to look at the facilities board and and that they haven't met anymore they came up with the recommendations for them at. So all of that that has to do with the facilities is all part of underneath the Department education what what were they charge to do I think they were charged with looking at Buildings in construction in the cost and things like that and they came up with the report but I don't think they haven't done anything since. Was that the commission that the. Secretary of the department of finance and administration was apartment. I don't remember I don't remember whether it was or not. I have had they had any reason to meet. No. I haven't but all that is is basically handled under the once the report was finalized they they didn't really have a reason for meeting anymore that given their recommendations so all those recommendations are now part of the department of education in their facilities for. Who who was on there. Who's on the commission I honestly don't remember who all this on that I know there is a couple of construction people business people that were on there I'm not money from state agency they pardon I'm sure there was but I have but there are more more non education people on their. Mr I'd like to hear from the director or secretary Walter he's over there at I don't know if this is the board of the commission that you've been on. Are not. The director here he's over there okay but also Senator English no. Does this subdivision of. Academic facilities. Have some type of a. You'll. Some. Appeal process yes. I think it's it Tim Kaine runs that that whole division of the civility is making the decisions about schools and in construction costs and all that what is their. Understood there was a. I don't know who all is on all of these boards and commissions I have no idea I'd like to hear from of the board I think that we're talking about was one that was put together as a one time board it was quite a few people on the board pretty significant undertaking they look at every. I think that every school district in every. Facility in the state of Arkansas looking at the facilities they made a recommendation and then. That recommendation was Malaysian. Submitted in that. there was no need to have the the board completed its obligations over there with the standard disbanded. Are you not on a board that deals with there's a facilities board that three member boards the secretary of education of the. the head of a actual and DFA's is a three member board we meet. Quarterly that's not the same board okay that's not what you're trying to eliminate and Senator English. Well I wonder what happened to the recommendations of this academic facilities oversight committee where was it submit it to I have no idea do you Senator English no other than they were submitted to the department of education and they look use those I think probably the number because recommendation planning for school facilities. But the Education Committee and you as chair or not aware of it of any recommendations made by the border not today I can't say that was probably two three four years ago. So you don't know whether the recommendations were acted on what. I don't know personally I don't either. For. In the Arkansas natural cultural heritage advisory committee. That's is that the committee that. Selects projects to be funded. All whatever whatever these little groups are that have been been there listed in here all of that function then goes to the Department of Parks and and heritage and they make those funding decisions. Secretary Walker I thought you were on the Arkansas natural and cultural borders something in. Take property tax transfer fees. And then. Make decisions as to how to spend a month state. Projects is this a sign board or committee I don't I don't think so. Are you familiar with the board that you're referring to so I don't I don't know the answer your question. His or would have some something to do with. Part of this language that used only. One twenty seven on the second page Arkansas natural and cultural heritage okay might fund of repairs for even the state capital out of that so is this not that committee. Whatever that committee was doing has been transferred just to the department of parks and tourism and heritage so that it buys you committee was not active at not met over a year and those functions whatever was part of that have moved in and they are part of the Department of a park natural and cultural heritage. So you you you had help in in drafting this bill I suppose the bureau went through and and we had over three hundred and fifty boards and commissions to look at all of those boards and commissions and task forces that had not met. In over a year. That had no no but no Hey if they hadn't had any activity at all. And that's what is in compiled in this list. And then contact was made with whoever is over these boards and violation and yeah everybody everybody was contacted initially to see when was the last time they ever had a meeting and some of the most of the respondents some of them didn't some just didn't have anybody there to respond. And they said there was no need for meeting what I don't know if they said. Well I mean that I think was a decision that was well that was made and and it'll be up to us to decide whether we want to remove some of these boards and commissions that are aren't doing anything and and take that work into those agencies they were affiliated with. So the Arkansas suicide prevention council that. No longer needed apparently not. We have something that I think many whatever was being whatever active things were going to be part of the Department of Health. Okay thank you Mr thank you senator any other questions. Seeing none the your clothes your bill some question bill let me make for sure there's nobody to speak for against. We none what's will of committee. Let's motion by Senator Pitsch this is amended second by Senator Dotson all in favor say aye. All opposed Like sign. Thank you senator. Members. We have a little bit of a quandary on Senate bill three fifty four. Senator Hammer has that bill on members own but there are folks here to speak. On that bill and He would like to have that bill heard. And not voted on until this afternoon if we can meet after the bill. After the session. Because he has a member's own amendment on the floor but he as folks here to speak. On the bill. The. You'll come down Senator Hammer and. Yes ma'am. So the people that are here to speak for or against or on the bill they don't. Have the opportunity to see the amendment. That's the that's what I was going to ask and I was just stepped to the side and I didn't have a chance to finish my conversation. Like Senator Hammer to see the extent of the amendment so seems like that would be in order yeah. But I I and il I'd give Senator Hammer chance to come down to the table to explain the the occurrence and and and see if the committee wants to hear or not I'm not here the bill. Is he just gonna talk about the bill or is amended. Sinis. Senator Hammer we've been down here to accept an amendment adopted amendments in the committee that will well let's senator Hammer playing member's own amendment. Thank you Mr may have loaned to explain why we are at the point yet we are. There's an amendment that was filed in our past eve or somebody from DWS to come they can speak briefly about what the amendment does to give full accuracy and I've actually sent upstairs and asked for a copy of it to be brought down to brief amendment and what happened was it ended up getting put on members own okay and what I should have done we've brought it in here so it could be adopted in the committee but the expectation was this might not be her till Thursday but there are people that have driven in today they've taken off work to speak on the bill and what I'm requesting is my presentation is very brief but while they're here in the event they are not able to come back on the German to hear the ball the bill in its entirety they would at least be given a chance to speak so the committee could hear them while they're here in case they can't can't come back that's that's the request now go when you've to the will of the committee and the chair that's explanation Senator paying. Our center Dotson pointed out it appears the met The Amendment is engrossed if you're looking online Sorvillo it got done at eight thirty this morning it is engrossed. It has been read across the desk and then read across so we you know officially can't move on until after after the session. But it's it's will of committee whether. Whether a. Whether we will hear testimony on this or not. US senator praying I guess my next question would be if we hear testimony this morning. Then it crosses the Senate floor is back on our agenda how much testimony or we're going here the second time. It will be limited Amendment. We were here we will hear what we will hear this morning and and and and we will take a motion on the after we come back thank you go ahead Senator. I'm not just looked up the amendment Mister chair and senator Hammer. You deleted and approval by the board and substituted and approval by the board. What did the amendment do except strike the same language and replace it with the same language would you mind if I get Steve up here he can get the better exposure somebody from the agency Mr chairman go ahead thank you. Mister filmon I'm get my laptop because I don't have. Is. Just enters yourself and you're recognized. Yes I'm Dan Parker on the chief legal counsel for the department of labor licensing. what the amendment is doing it's just striking five words. from the heart of the code. For our of. In this home inspector board. That requires not only compliance with all registration requirements but also and approval by the board and of our twenty four occupational licensing entities it is the only entity that has requires board approval makes them less efficient and makes people wait longer for their licenses so we wanted to strike that language from their statute. Questions. What's the. Go ahead senator flowers. So I haven't heard of an abstract in a long long time is that what we're striking the board. For ABSTRACTERS'. And that's why we're one of the reasons why we're consolidating these three boards yes. We still have abstracts I mean doesn't title insurance. Generally yes but there are also people who still do it the old fashioned way. And so that would be where now you well that would come under the new board that would be a consolidated board with with an abstract member on it. But the board would be greatly reduced. Well the more we eliminated their membership with go down to one representative on and it will go on to what. A new board of the state board of appraisers home inspectors and ABSTRACTERS' who are all a part of the real estate closing process. And the Arkansas appraiser licensing and certification board that's going under there too yes ma'am. How many members will this. New board have. It will have ten members. Who's gone or how how are they Chosen to serve on the board. Well they would be appointed like they are now but who. the governor. And how many. Individuals Senator flowers if you would just give me a minute I want to see if the committee wants to hear listen. what's the will of committee on on the hearing process and and our determination after the After after the session. Or at motion by Senator Dotson second by Senator Tucker that we hear this at this time uh all in favor say aye All opposed Like sign. All right senator if you will go ahead and and begin your presentation sure thank you Mr members committee for the taller shall be short brief because it's really per short brief bill what we're doing is we're taking three boards and going to consolidate image one they will have representation on the new board of this is an alignment with of movement as you've heard from Senator English just before this and some others to bring some consolidations today to us on the boards this is supported by the agency which is part work for service and support by the governor's office as far as the money it stays with each one of the three individual entities so that they can you know maintained their individual functionality as far as what might be their goals and visions but what it does do is bring in a consolidated effort to make it more seamless to allow for licensure should be handled in an expeditious manner but yet still be some accountability in the event they have to do with disciplinary actions of the respective people the and that is really the long and the short of it is were taken three boards we're going to abolish them and consolidate them into one board that would have jurisdiction over these three areas which are appraise your home inspectors an ABSTRACTERS' M. as chairman I'll be glad to answer any questions. Read senator flowers. So you say the funds will remain in the entities. So if you are. Deleting the entities. What how is that gonna work. I'll give my answer perhaps can follow up and just straight man cases say something wrong they they will be they will be housed they'll be housed at the new board but they will be respectfully compartmentalized each one for example right now the one number I have is the home inspector board has about five hundred fifty thousand in cash fund balances and so they would you know continue to function being able to collector their fees from their members but yet it would be housed at the what under the jurisdiction or under the oversight of the new board and that riders much mom mess anything up. Now that's a that's exactly correct the bill has language in it that's going to transfer over all the person now all the and spend it balances on hand and all the appropriation authority to the new board and then we would keep the funds in their own accounts that there are again for counting purposes we would account for the monies of each licensing entities separately but all be transferred under the it'll all be administered by the consolidated board. So you say all the personnel will be transferred so we're not downsizing personnel were not. The Clinton any. Salary cost. Well actually the the home inspector board just has one employee that employee would move and help with the administration of the new board the abstract Board has up is vacant position that our department has been kinda administering for them and that you have a we're going to give up that is that position would be eliminated. One person it's moved over any any other what about this. Other board to germinate. home inspection or something. Yeah that would be a hundred percent of the employees for the abstract board and then for the home inspectors for that employee would still transfer over to the new board and assess the. Three or four staff members that help administer the appraiser port so it's still going to be very lean but we're we're going to be one position. So we're only cutting one position. Yeah but there's you know a total of three or four police that run the sport to begin with. So three plus. Whatever personnel is being transferred yes. The three. That you speak of. Will they be no. No. What do they do now. They work for the appraiser board. That's a much more larger board with a. Many more licensees. And the governor will be responsible for appointing all of these people. Yes senator. And they'll be appointed for three years is it a staggered terms yes. I don't see that just on page eleven of the bill of thirty four pages it's back on page towards the end of the bill there's a temporary language provision that covers all the initial appointments to the board will be handled section seventy two on page thirty two. Well I'm I'm just trying to figure out. Why has their need for abstractor. Position I mean. Do. Title companies. Come under that or what in some areas of the state they still have the abstract plants that are in place and still use the. attorney title opinion. In conjunction with the abstract plants to ensure titles to property. Is there a board or commission for title insurance people I think that falls under the state insurance department the regulation of the title insurance industry. It seems like that would be something associated in relevant to. This abstract. Yeah that is not within our jurisdiction only because of the the law that we made up here. Well yes the abstract Board has been around for a very long time I move we thought they were a good candidate to be consolidated with the sport well I mean obviously the legislature must make the decision to put title insurance companies under the insurance. Division. Would you agree. I mean who did it. Okay title insurance under the state insurance department. You know when you look at title. Sure to looking at. The history of the property. That's something that they based their insurance on and ask for any requirements to be met if it's. If there's something wrong with the title. Yes that is not something that our department regulates. So I can't really speak to. L. to how they regulate the title insurance industry. Okay thank you Mr. Thank you senator flowers any other questions. Seeing none of the. We will get to the testimony for and against. There is too signed up on the same line item. Against Robert Neal and Dylan when. Yep. You're going to speak speak together. All right. Yesterday microphone into do sure cells and who you're with us and you're recognized. Mister chair I'm Robert Neil I am a past chairman of the Arkansas inspectorate district board all with them introduce himself I'm telling her when I'm a current board member on the Arkansas Home inspectorate inspiration board. And my plan here is to be as brief as possible but also give you information that you need to know Mr chairman senators administrative staff I do appreciate your time and I do appreciate you letting us speak here today. So a little bit about the history of the board The name is a home inspector registration board but at the end of the day. That name is a little bit misleading it's actually a consumer protection board the board's not there to protect home inspectors is not there to protect me and and my profession primarily even though we try to facilitate a positive business environment for home inspectors the number one priority of the home inspector registration board is to protect the consumers now. If anybody has questions about what the differences when a home inspector an appraiser I'd be happy to you know to try to answer that I know a lot of people get those confused if you have questions feel free to ask but home inspectors looking at the overall safety looking at the major system components the home and doing an evaluation for buyer typically during the real estate transaction process. Unlike some of the other boards that have been mentioned here this is not a duplicate this board it's not covered by other boards and agencies currently and it is a self sustaining Board this one hundred percent funded by the home inspector registration fees the the fines associated with with you know people that are found out of compliance and educator fees and so this board was founded to protect the consumers at no taxpayer burden to the consumer. In fact I believe it was under. Former governor Mike Huckabee that this board was actually founded and because they saw the need for a consumer protection board for to to protect buyers here in the homes home inspection process. There's several home inspectors here and while oftentimes are going to run into situations that are bad usually we don't we usually find you know as we always find some deficiencies but every now and then I'm sure there are people here that can tell you war stories about I went into the house I found this major deficiency that's a life and safety hazard and then as the realtor was talking I found out someone died in this house recently and it could have been prevented because it was something that had not been here previously I would been able to find and identify. And so. We are. First and foremost a consumer protection board. I've heard that. And from reading this bill in from what was said today. It's going to eliminate one board position or one a no one more position but one staff member. The part that wasn't stages were actually losing five board members the current structure of the Arkansas home inspector registration board is for home inspectors a consumer advocate which they are a member of the public at large on the board which is a voting member a real estate professional and an appraiser that way we have plenty of home inspectors with experience that are overseeing the process of registering home inspectors making sure people are safe make sure people meet the requirements and also being able to interpret information from home inspection report when it comes time to a disciplinary action for my understanding of reading this bill it would essentially take a board of seven people for which their home inspectors that are subject matter experts I move it to a board of ten people and now we only have two members on so were very under represented in and would be under represented in the education requirements that that comes up for future education changes and also would also but I would be very highly under represented when it comes to To disciplinary action. And so. While also eliminating one person but it's being paid it's eliminating five volunteers that do this out of the goodness of their heart to protect the consumers and the people of Arkansas is. What we might be on different sides committee on many subjects I guarantee you that there are a couple things that everybody in this room have in common one is you hold the hold your health very dear and the health of your loved ones very dear the second thing you want to go home to a safe house at the end of the day when it at the end of the day you want to go home somewhere that you know is safe. So everyone of us I guarantee you has that in common all. So this bill from what I understand has been filed with an emergency clause so my question is where's the fire. What what's the emergency here was very was there something going on from the people of Arkansas that demanded that this be addressed at this time and out of everything that's going on in the state this is an emergency or is this something that was written by bureaucrats that run elected and then push down to try to try to dissolve board members out of a small agency. So that's one question I definitely have is it definitely feels by eliminating these positions on this consumer protection board. We are attacking a problem with a shot gun that we should be using a flyswatter all know board is perfect this board is not perfect I don't think any more in the State of Arkansas perfect they have people on there for they're not perfect but this board has served the public for quite some time now and I am honored to have been a past chairman of this board twice now with that knowledge of being a past chairman following this board for quite some time there's a lot of information I have that I don't want to bore you with today but I do hear that we're going to hear or bottle from the firm I think the Arkansas department of licensing and labor so Mr chairman I respectfully request that does that are in opposition of this bill to have an opportunity to to choose one member to rebut anything that said because otherwise I'd be up here all day trying to tell you all the knowledge that I have of this board in the past in the past a structure of it in the things of going on with that server that's not how this works okay I would request it but I appreciate your time and. I will go ahead and I will pass it to Mr what. Thank you for hearing me. So I don't really go ahead thank you I got I got I got others or ask questions or let him go ahead and do his testimony and then we'll then we'll ask questions okay I thought he was about to leave no no inside it. So again my name's dealer one serving Arkansas home inspector regeneration Board I am a licensed home inspector I volunteered after a session and received an employment and I'm I care about the board I care about the people I care about our staff which is one person Charlotte London or administrator and I you know again this is not a paid position I don't have any dog in the fight other than I want to say good home inspectors I want to see the people of Arkansas have the protection but at the end of the day effort from everyone from the realtors to the the buyers the sellers I want to see a good clean transaction make sure that everybody you know we we do what we do but. I can say that in two thousand nineteen the think there was legislation passed where we became we fell under Arkansas department of labor licensing and. You know I can. See where there could be a lot of positive come from this okay again when we came on under the Department labor in licensing we did have some of our own issues existing in some of that had to do with lack of of them manpower. not just with the current administrator but even prior to in twenty thirteen we had some issues you know we only have one staff member since we've been on the last two years the Arkansas department of labor licensing one of the positive things has been ELP R. elect electronic licensee protocol which we just launched it's been kind of a rough landing but it's this going to really help out with for everyone and it from you know renewable to application But the rest I'm sad and I'm disappointed and I'm angry with. Hello the the the Arkansas department of labor licensing management has dealt with our board and and it shows lack of understanding and caring it's been very frustrating and I think that when I say this I represent every current part board member as well as past board members I appreciate all taken taken time to hear me I do not see that this Senate bill three five four. We'll make any improvements and as I told Senator I don't care if we take a Lamborghini Sherman tank or school bus to get where we need to be if this bill is improvement I'm all for. But I can tell you I know knowing what I know and seeing what's going that but this is doing is not going to be an improvement for anyone it's it's going to be a bad thing thank you for hearing me thank you of. would be time for questions Senator Payton is first. Thank you Mr so of either one of your guests could answer this. Evidently the board has one employee here and that would be the secretarial management thought that would be me Charlotte London she was originally that was the board administrator and I think they did a title change too so she's actually the director of welcome that's really not my question so the does the board contract with any type of a inspector to go out and and check on the home inspectors or tend to check their worker have you ever employed anybody that would go out and basically be the eyes on the ground for the board which. Senator Payton the board does have the ability to do so and I have done such as a volunteer not necessarily the contract I've actually done so as a volunteer on cases that have popped up where there's a discrepancy between a seller and a buyer and a home inspector and I've been that person that's eyes and ears on the ground that goes and follows up to see what's actually present at the house of the board does have the ability to do that a lot of times things get pushed to a consent agreement or get settled before it gets to that place and so that's not a major expense but there is the possibility for the board to do that if needed but we don't currently commonly do that or they don't currently commonly do that so having served on a very small board myself at one point. I'm having one person that is handling all of the revenue and and whatever expenses there are maintaining the accounts that's always in my opinion exposure. Have there been any audit findings of regarding the the money handling of your board in the past it yes Sir there has been so one thing I've been advocating and I've met a publicly on the board meeting I've had Arkansas Department of mine of labor licensing management president I've expressed my concerns the boards expressed their concerns on this we tried to see about getting a one additional employee I think during the transition process the But the hiring freeze however you get some. Areas of department of labor licensing is still hiring I believe we've been frozen the We have sufficient funds two and I think it's sustainable but we need one additional employee and part of the problem is is prior to becoming under Arkansas department labor in licensing we were able to skate by with one with one person just barely but now that we've come under this new management not only did in her issue have our current duties we now have to meet on a weekly or more maybe possibly more than once a week to talk about expenses supplies it basically it takes away from her time so it makes it more difficult of our goal of I'd like to know what the audit findings were. From my experience in the past the of course no board is perfect there has been an audit finding where some of the registration speaks were admittedly held longer than what was expected in what was what was a proper at the end of the day everything came down to the because my understanding past audits whenever I was on the board and set in front of the budget anyone committees during the budget hearings I believe one of the one of the findings was that. We didn't use a special serializer seek for cash transactions apparently there are some very specific requirements for that but again everything was down to the penny and also we only had one board employee which is why I would create a lack of oversight so at the recommendation of the department of finance and administration we adopted a board policy that limited spending buyer administrative assistant by certain price groups so that if anything for I don't know these numbers are correct but she could spend money on something less than two hundred fifty dollars for say anything between two hundred fifty and five hundred dollars would have to have approval from either the treasurer the chairman and then there's another level above that where it would take full board approval to spend that money so that's how we mitigated some of those small we're proper should I let my colleagues have some questions but on you do realize. All of the duties of the border being transferred not eliminated so the function of the board should. Be fulfilled by the. Larger board that's being created. It may have members respond to that or is that a statement I thank song and the question is you you do understand that the way this bills written none of those functions cease to exist I understand that none of the administrative functions would cease to exist I can actually appreciate a joining of administrative functions as the five board members being lost and home inspectors being represented by two people on a board of ten people that's being created is not necessarily administrative I can see some merit the administrative changes it's the lack of representation from home inspectors on the new thank you. Senator flowers. I'm I'm trying to understand. What what the experience has been like since. The transfer to the division of labor. It's not being good. Can be found on that. Yes of. We have. Charlotte London I thank very highly of and I've you know I've spoke I don't think there's an inner there's not a perfect person out there but I we couldn't ask for a better person to fill her role prior to even if you look back prior to her employment I think we started around two thousand sixteen or whatever we had one person that has had this position is not enough. Manpower two you know we're dealing with five hundred home inspectors you know when that number fluctuates a little bit but we've got one person in and I think some folks sitting behind a plaque look at say Arkansas realtors board say that either sixteen thousand realtors in Arkansas and say they got three people in there why can't a home inspector do it it's apples and oranges it's it you know we have again the continuing education and some of the requirements it's it's not we're not necessarily the same as other boards The continuing education in the review I mean it's just it's. A. But coming under the Arkansas department of labor licensing we bet of the been met with some. I would say I would I was more hoping that we is working with the Department labor licensing that we could have more team play an understanding and everybody would care and understand but I don't we don't you know the not understanding problem is is solvable but the not caring problem is not resolved in that's that's my biggest concern in my frustration. And and with that said it sounds like that goes more to what the consumer. Benefits are does not been yes we have to have like for our home inspectors in processing wheat right now as we speak and say that one of the things was bringing over coming thanking the ELP is going to as the premier actively solve everything and although those efficiencies will help this year it's been even worse we're so far behind the eight ball and it's you know in in in we have one person to doing this and you know in the end and will. And not one of the one of the recommendations was well what we'll we'll send other staff and from the arc to help Charlotte in one in the in the criticism says well all she doesn't want help well the problem is she she's so busy we're trying to re train somebody to help do this it's almost like you know. Hey. Put more work on her exactly in the end what we and found out was once that sometimes the date the help that was provided it was almost like moms in the kitchen was back some cookies in your three year old walks and wants to help and next thing you know you've got flowers and broken eggs all over the kitchen in your life okay we don't need that help. We you know we do need additional help but we need to full time employee do you know whether or not these other boards have been transferred to the division of labor as has the home inspector. Board. I believe they all or underneath there and I hope that they have a more of a positive experience and we had but now. We are the bill proposes to put lumpsum altogether. Is that your understanding yes ma'am they're going it looks like they're wanting to consolidate I will say again last time that this and you know we're still trying to if we could get a of cooperation with Arkansas department of labor last licensing management of I think we could so we're and we need additional employee I think things will go great but yeah we we gotta quit working against each other and work with each other thank you Rodelinda senator flowers if I may I do believe that you ask you know if there have been problems since the transition and my goal here is to be constructed not to throw stones but I'll be as concise as possible give you just a couple small examples Senator pay it asked about responsibilities of a small board and having oversight one of the problems that we ran into is or administrative assistant and Act several times got asked to sign memorandum memorandums of understanding that went above her authority to sign for. And she was pressured to try to sign things he would not sign that I think. Look negatively on her but she didn't have the authority to do it but she wasn't signing them because it she's not at that time executive director she was an administrative assistant and so they were unrealistic expectations for the job title that was given one of the other examples we have an office door where records and you know such as social security number bank account information private information of of our registrants you know what's behind that locked door. The law did not work and so our records went on lots for many many months I don't know the exact number I believe it was more than eight months before we finally got a working walk in the door the Department licensing in labor. another example is myself invited the. The secretary and his staff and to talk about budget numbers it wasn't until recently that they came in and talked to the now existing board about the budget numbers and they were budget items that were supposed to be billed quarterly that were showing up to the board to be billed monthly and and asking for the board's approval and so there's been confusing numbers on the budget items and what shared services are and what some of the things or the board's been asked to approve during that time of the problems I actually had a meeting with secretary of state and his staff and what came out of that meeting and well as the and I've asked Mr let if I can share this because and just you know because it. And she because she knows I'm talking about this and so there's no concern about this being a personnel records he's given me permission to talk about this. And the the response for them is the problem is he's not filing her weekly reports which is a Mickey Mouse spreadsheet of what did you do this week. She wasn't doing it we said Hey you need to start doing this I emailed the set of the secretary and ask Hey is this been taking care of that was in March of twenty twenty one I didn't hear anything back I thought it was an open door policy although we be hearing things back it wasn't so I'd mess Mr Gunthorpe which is one of his staff members and I finally got a reply back that said and I quote Mr Neil yes miss one has been doing an excellent job of submitting her weekly reports. And so it looks like we're we're doing the things on our end we just want better communication and more representation and want to work with the department of licensing and labor but we want to do in such a way that home inspectors in the consumers are properly protected. And so and flowers. You too back in the queue Senator Tucker. One thing it was about your request Mister OR one to rebut what what comes. Neil right okay I'm sorry about that my apologies I've I don't frankly didn't know much about this issue before this discussion here today I learned some things from Senator hammer out quite frankly I've learned a lot from you know I I personally found your testimony to be very compelling and the chairman is right the way this process works you can only testify once per Committee meeting I appreciate what you're saying you're trying to save us time by not telling us things for two hours when only five minutes of it may be relevant so just given the way that this came down the fact that when I can be taking a vote on this today I would just going to tell you were presumably going to be hearing this again on Thursday so you can be it'll be after sessions over real here today yeah okay I was just gonna say I'm interested to hear what you have to say back I'm going to be open minded about what we hear on the other side maybe they don't have compelling testimony as well but I I'm personally owned and such compelling witnesses that I I would personally be interested here in which you have to say so if it's if it's a different meeting it's a new meeting maybe you can come back out I don't know I have to ask the chairman staff on that but that's just my that's that's my take on on your offer thank you so. Just my question you said numerous times your employee needs assistance. So consolidation happens it's gonna get worse. You let me finish my question she's in Sir. There are more. Employees and hired by these other boards these other two boards correct. So that would be a shared service. That those boards and have it there how many how many In testimony when they're like three in one and then the one was absent or one was empty and they were dealing with different subject matters. With the same thing I mean one is a licensing. Appraiser licensing certification board and and you guys are an inspector the same kind of thing so similarities there. In and And may your licensing appraisers or inspectors. I thank that were only actually and if I'm correct Robert we're only required to meet twice annually it's for its quarterly quarterly we meet monthly and we have more subject matter it in just dealing with the homes I don't know what their workload looks like I don't know but what might. For what I say is when you consolidate all this we've got multiple things going on you know again are we now the home inspectors we're we're concerned about appraisals and all the it I don't see. How this is gonna be feasible and and Mr chairman to your to your question I don't think I don't think the major opposition parties in my mind's not to sharing administrative duties I think that everybody I think there are many people that see the merit that administer it we do need help with the administrative duties. I think a lot of the road with the home inspectors is the fact that the previous administrations of seen the necessity to protect the public safety into forming a board that had for home inspectors and three other non home inspector members to evaluate the things that come before them that in order to protect the public in the new board being created what have to home inspector members of bass minority members on it you understand we could create fifty thousand boards commissions and things to to do that. Or or we can be efficient and and try to have a combination of those similarities working together and and reduce bureaucracy correct no no matter what we don't I mean this legislature could can you are there because it's been created. It's our duties and then you we've delegated those duties to use. And and I can respect what you guys do and and what each one of these groups do. But you know. Let's work together if we can to create efficiencies and and a smaller smaller government bureaucracy for the people of Arkansas and and and and I'm sure I'm going to hear similarities in in the next you know there's multiple testimonies coming up that everybody wants to keep their their kingdoms. And and that's that's going to be throughout everything we ever knew in consolidation that's that that's going to be a similarity so is there any other questions Senator paying. Thank you Mr so is it miss Charlotte the Charlotte Leding S.. So when miss Charlotte goes on vacation or get sick. does the functions cease to happen or do you we I guess we have you know and again I'm a volunteer of all of our workmanship or volunteers you know we and and to what extent are we required I don't get paid and I'm not getting I'm losing work to to be here today I may serve a complete needs to be filed or a license needs to be issued application received that is interrupted any time she has a vacation or I'd like to deferred that our chairman Daniel Burke at as he comes up shortly thank you thank you Mister senator flowers. Yes. I guess this might come up in discussion later but I would take issue with your comments Mr cheer about. The need for consolidation when you compare that with the. The mission to. For consumer to be protected. And I think that's that's what the goal in the mission sounds like yes am I right about that yes ma'am this the first item on our mission statement is to protect the consumer exactly if this didn't matter I would not be in front of you and I would beg to differ that. A home inspectors are not the same thing as an appraiser. it's a very different scope of practice I know that just being in a consumer myself. Let alone a lawyer. Let anybody without owners knowing that. One thing the markup of property about how much is it's worth in another. To mark up and inspect the house see if it's livable. It won't blow up or doesn't have the. Traces of a meth lab in it are things like that they're it apples and oranges here and I wanted to know from you all to state. Do you feel competent to even be on the board that. Consolidated with home inspectors appraisers and ABSTRACTERS' do you know anything about that fact the min no ma'am willfully ignorant other professions outside of what little interaction I have with them professionally which does not give me a breath of knowledge for that to be able to make decisions on their behalf. And then the other. Hello I wanted to a. For you to tell the committee. How about. The consumers the volume of consumers that are affected. By home inspection. How many people I mean is that come up when the sale of property yes I'd like to address that so home inspections are not required however they're highly recommended and most people do get an inspection I don't know exactly what percent but again home inspector general is we're dealing with electrical structural H. back plumbing etcetera mean you know and so we go in we take the time to to onsite inspect the home and then we build of a report in that report were naming all the systems were also listening and a deficiency years or the repair or replacement that kind of thing And so what ideally where it's kind of team play between the realtors and the the clients is to educate them on what they're purchasing in the condition what you know so you know again if there is a a rabbit hole they need to know how wide and how deep so they can make a smart decision. That consumer pays for that yes and I'm back to the tax I I know that I don't know how much money we receive in taxpayer funds I know that the board is at from my understanding funding by the the home inspector you know renewals registration phase so I mean. Is it is it Arnold's and again we have more than sufficient operating income I know a few months or two months back looking at that it wants to keep more than like three years of annual revenue ons on file but you know. I want to be as efficient and it's possible back to what I said earlier I don't care how we get where we need to be is long as we were doing the best by the people of Arkansas. And center Senate thank you senator flowers. Okay and a and I'll be brief the up the best of my knowledge we received zero and taxpayer is packed taxpayer money there's no taxpayer burden on its inspector generated fees as far as registration and us continuing education fees As to the as to the other differ clarity I don't feel comfortable making decisions for prices on ABSTRACTERS' and I do believe they were here today the reciprocal that would be true as well. Thank you thank you Mr chair. The thank you gentleman any other questions sing none will go to. The Deanna. Piasecki okay. My name is Diana Petoskey and I'm the director of the appraiser licensing and certification. Duralast said secretary of labor analysts. A. Thank you Mr chairman and good morning committee members as I said I am Diana Piasecki I am the director of the appraiser licensing and certification board and I am here today to speak in favor of Senate bill three fifty four. All three agencies named in the bill are part of the Arkansas department of labor and licensing we're all House at the nine hundred west capital location we are similar in that we in respect to that we're all real estate related boards this bill combines the staff and boards into one agency the state board of appraisers ABSTRACTERS' and home inspectors in my opinion this bill allows the new agency to better service to provide better service to both licensees and the public. This will be accomplished by the increase in support staff for the agencies involved. Staff will be available during normal working hours to assist both licensees and the public with questions or concerns they may have. In a one person office that is not always possible everyone needs to take a vacation from time to time. A combination of staff allows for cross training if the staff member is out there someone available to handle those job duties this also protects the institutional knowledge of all three agencies when changes in staff or car. The combination of staff will also eliminate the legislative audit finding of segregation of duties. All three agencies have or will soon migrate to the electronic licensing data a platform database this will provide a common database for all licensees involved which reduces the processing time for the issuance and the renewal of licenses. The positives of this bill are it creates increased transparency and provides additional support for the smaller agencies and I think we've talked about that here this morning quite a bit of my staff is well versed in the states procedures of they're already familiar with asus which is the state's accounting program we're familiar with legislative audit and how they function and the necessary documentation for deposits and to make sure that deposits are made each and every week. Of. The common database also provides for if the if the licensee calls in we can pull up their record to see if they where they stand with their continuing education we can help out with a variety of administrative procedures. while at the same time this board this bill will provide increased protection of the public and reducing time frames to issue or renew a license there were a couple of questions that I wanted to address of next and that is of the the Emergency Clause was mentioned the Emergency Clause is needed for financial reasons it point it will make the bill coincide with the new fiscal year. The number of board members is proportionate to the number of licensees that compares of home inspectors the number that I was given is three hundred and thirty licensees the appraiser board has around thirteen hundred licensees. Of last year the home inspectors issued three hundred and forty one licenses and they've issued fifty nine so far this year. With respect to the protection of the public with the complaint process and making sure that the homeowner so will wrote will protected in this transformation of the committee transformation here this consolidation the appraiser boards which a couple of years ago to a complaint committee process that complaint committees consist of a contract investigator two board members myself and our assistant Attorney General representative that has brought that is helped us cut down the processing times as during covid we fell behind with complaints so we are now catching up in this process is working well I would expect if if this bill passes that we would use the same complaint prior a complaint committee process for all of these boards that would take that would mean that the two A home inspector board members that are we're going to be on the new board would work with myself the assistant Attorney General and perhaps a subject matter expert that we can found in their field that would be willing to help out the board. And with that I'm happy to answer any questions. Mister seventy or I'm sorry Sir that's okay very little add to that members of the committee at the end of the day and you heard most of the testimony that you have heard so far as been surrounding home inspectors it's not about home inspect. It's about efficiency at the end of the day we need to provide services to those divisions that are most of all and we're looking at as we is says the needs of these various divisions were looking at the smaller entities those that only have one or perhaps no employees as ABSTRACTERS' in this case has no employees most of those the administrative duties for ABSTRACTERS' are currently being handled by my existing staff and we're kind of hodgepodge any in in doing that we've got a finance staff helping in we've got some or even our attorneys are helping ABSTRACTERS' not a position there if we were to do this obviously we would eliminate that position but it's not just one entity it's about efficiency our friends and when you've got twenty two different entities under one roof you need to be able to have chain of command clear chain of command you need to have span of control and you need to have accountability efficiencies what we're all about you know I understand that maintaining the status quo give some degree of certainty to some people but what we have to do when we're charged with administering these divisions of the questions we have to ask ourselves at what cost when maintaining that status quo brings into question our goal of exceptional service to our citizens and we have to put the interest of our citizens in the service of our citizens first I think this bill does just that by putting the citizens put citizens first and and I'll be open to any questions that you have. Senator flowers. So on the one hand you say. It's a matter of the efficiency. And then on the other hand. You allude to. The citizens of the State. And it just sounds to me like. What you're saying and is. Because you get these boards lot under. The department of labor. You're trying to figure out how to administer them. Would you. I agree that it probably would have been better. For your agency. If they had been left a stand alone boards or commissions as they were created I lease home inspection was. Under governor Huckabee. I understand your question and I would say no what what do you say no I was about to say. J. O. I would say no because now they have to kind of oversight they have the kind of chain of command they have the kind of span of control they have the clear line of sight for management of you know and I didn't I don't say on one hand and and say another on the other hand I think efficiency concern for efficiency and concerns for our citizens our goal in the same hand I think what is good for this the citizens who are paying freight is is is good for the agency and the Department when we create a I didn't understand what you said when we create and rice what would you say when we create efficiencies and the Department we create a system that is reliable that is transparent to the citizens so I don't think it's on one hand and another on being on the other hand I think they both go together I think to the agreed that we're able to create efficiencies to witness to the degree that we're able to be more responsive to the people that are paying the freight these or other these are the fee payers out here Hey and what. The fees the. Right the we'll. For forgive me for using that colloquialism the people that are paying the fees these are special revenue entities all of the entities that we have senator or special revenue entities so the people that are paying the freight by that I mean the licensees who actually Hey there licensees would be the home inspector the appraisers and the ABSTRACTERS' would you please let I'm just trying to get to this point I know we're limited on time Senator Missy Irvin senator is that Mr set finish and then you can ask a question. To the degree that were able to create efficiencies and create reliability and more transparency for the individuals that are paying the fees that support that give us the opportunity to perform these services I think it's a good thing. Well the consumer. Is not paying anything to your agency. It is the individuals that are licensed as I understand it that are paying the fees for your agency is correct their mission is different from yours in so much as the fissions. Their mission is more directed. Just supporting and making sure consumers citizens of Arkansas have good products I would ask. I forgot your name excuse me. But I would ask you. You're an appraiser yes. Yes ma'am I'm an appraiser appraise for about twenty years before I came to work for the board have you ever been licensed as a home inspector I have not have you ever been licensed as a an attorney that might do an abstractor I have no okay and so it the board here that we're talking about creating in this bill you got five that would be appraisals appraisers. looks like one. From a financial institution familiar with the. Freezer. Process at six. One senior citizen and. I guess that person would also be a consumer representatives at seven. To register home inspectors eight nine. And everyone involved actively in the making of abstracts of real estate type. I don't see how this is going to work I really don't this doesn't make sense to me in terms of providing. What consumers would be expecting and I'm not sure and you can tell me how many how many complaints about appraisals do you get. Thanks I think that that that that question with all due respect senator would be more appropriately directed at the Secretary you want my I'm not she said she's a she's an appraiser I think what I said seat on the board I think you will she's not on the board you haven't loaded for this okay so we don't know what's going to happen of this this bill in no way diminishes Commission that each of these special revenue entities have. Our commitment to those that can those constituencies remains intact what this does is create efficiencies in the operation of those boards and those missions all the the we we feel I feel that this bill will provide the kind of diversity not everyone on the board is going to have subject matter expertise about what's going on on the board what we feel that that diversity of conversation. Those conversations that will happen on the board all of them are involved in the closing process in real estate we feel that convert that diversity is certainly going to be something that's going to be helpful to the board and we would hope that this committee we appreciate our our desire to create diversity on our boards I strongly disagree. People are qualified people are licensed in certain areas somebody is doing it abstract of title certainly doesn't know anything about HVAC system I got that much sense. To know. An appraiser S. comparing what the value of one property is in a community that sole when it was so what's next to it what do they know about HVAC system what do they know. About home inspection. That's ridiculous. I disagree. Thank you senator the so. How many. The I mean please do the. For services to the home inspectors Board have how many they have one staff and one. Okay how many do the appraisers they have only three three one four for now yes is is there one open position or that. No no so they have for employees and with the appraisers ABSTRACTERS' is not abstract or harassment so. But they don't do licensing either well they do we just handle it for we have one position there were going to relinquish that position of if we if this happens we relinquish that position and allow the new board to work there together we think that shared services model is going to help not only ABSTRACTERS' but help home inspectors as well as appraisers we just think it's good so the ABSTRACTERS' you have for the employee from the department of labor in that two two two yeah so. With both of those stay in there and stay there. They're also assisting home inspectors as well with their financial responsibility so currently four five six six. Seven. There if you're if you're sure this is a sheer Board U. S. seven employees instead of a one of them have an one one I'm having to what I'm having for you have seven combined to for those for those those three right all working to help everyone do the finances to everything that they need to do it just make sense to us all right thank you senator Tucker. Thank you Mr to learn from the home inspectors already. That it's entirely self sufficient financially is that the same for the ABSTRACTERS' the appraisers the same for all twenty two entities all of us all of our entities are special revenue entities as senator with the exception of labor and Labor gets roughly two point one million in general revenue budget of roughly half of that is matching funds but labor is the only entity within the department of labor licensing it gets G. R. all of the rest of them are special revenue entities. Thank you so do you contend that this bill which would save any money or well you don't know we're not going to eliminate positions here no one's losing their jobs no one if this is not about of the amount of money that's going to be safe it's about being able to do the day to day responsibilities answering the complaints creating operational efficiencies having line of sight Management those kinds of things to me Senator are equally important when you're trying to run of twenty two different entities under one roof efficiency in operation knowing who's doing what and women being responsive to audit issues because ultimately we have to answer to you on audit issues audit issues were brought up earlier I don't want to get into those because some of them go to personnel issue related issues and I don't want to discuss those an open form but those are the kinds of difficulties that we're dealing with and this type of consolidation will alleviate our concerns in that regard. I just. This is more of a statement but I'm inviting you to respond so that's why it's a question but we just heard from the the gentleman from the home inspectors Board. They're identifying to me very specific risks of consolidating these three boards very specific concrete reasons and when I hear you all testify I come here more. Buzz words like efficiency for transparency or shared services and but I don't really hear the specifics of what you're talking about and and like for example you said at what cost you know we have three boards but at what cost but then I don't hear a real cost and so I I guess I just want you to invite you to. Persuade me to get more but what is the cost I just am not seeing what the cost is or or or I'm like specifically what what's what's at issue here they're trying to resolve other than just kind of easier Management on the on the department will easier management certainly senator but and again as I say it's not all about home inspections home inspectors is we're hearing about but if we just talk about home inspectors reason I'm somewhat vague is because I don't want to talk about personalities is this is bigger than just personalities we're talking about specific audit issues I and again I don't want to be specific in that regard but we're also talking about a relationship that we have with the attorney general's office you know senator that prior to transformation most of the smaller entities had usage of the of of of the service bureau that was housed at the department of finance and administration we transformation coming about that service bureau ceases to exist and so they don't have that service anymore when we did when we went through a transformation then we inherited all of those responsibilities that they used to have a service to a elsewhere some of the entities especially the smaller ones are having difficulties in dealing with those of additional responsibilities that they have to have and so we have to help the and again as I said earlier this is about assisting the most vulnerable this generally the smaller agencies that we have you notice we're not talking about combining engineers or architects or accountants those entities generally can help themselves we're talking about it consolidating home inspectors with three hundred fourteen licensees ABSTRACTERS' with a hundred thirteen. we've got auctioneers on the other side in geology they have around three hundred fifty apiece so that's around six hundred we've already technically consolidated them because we have one person handling those two entities geology and and auctioneers one person handling twice the number of licensees that we have with any of the smaller ones that we're talking about right now so while I can appreciate you for you of the feeling that I owe a this testimony has a certain degree of ambiguity clearly operational efficiency is what we're talking about here. The only thing I hear is that fewer is better really so substantively I mean you know what we want we throw in the engineers I mean that's one less board we could combine and the nurses and the doctors I mean their boards and yeah I know I understand that's not the department of labor but just because. Few if you're is not always more efficient and efficient doesn't always mean better as just my based on what I've heard so far my my take on it I appreciate thank you Sir is there any other questions. Senator Hester. Yes. Talk about this now to try to concern I I I valued I believe this bill is a good start in the right in the right direction and I want to. Senate I very much value home inspectors I use them every day my profession as a realtor bill or hire them on the other side of the deal of the reality is like one of the first. Grass Bills is not responsible for anything we did right if your roof falls in tomorrow sorry I missed my thank you it's it's worth two hundred fifty or four hundred dollars that you pay for like we talk about some risk assessment or seems like everyone else this process like the act stricter scrutiny don't messes up there's insurance policy there right the the the the home inspectors like they they take no responsible Tatian and again I value that industry but I don't say that we can come here pretend we're protecting the general public when I've never seen a contractor they stand behind what they do nor for twenty dollars what I blame them I wouldn't want to either right anyway I just think that we see so much of it so many of these groups all of them spending their time protecting their industry not the general public at which I think that is not the goal of the year before very basic protections for safety for the public that's that's all these role should be and we have so many of these different licensing agencies out there that spend most of their time hiring lobbyists bring people down here to to do the opposite of what they should be doing they should be worried about safety of the public course everything they say is for safety the public but the reality is I appreciate the direction you're going and use the view that there is any value to the public for not for this based on just that not over regulation. Not. All right any other questions se none thanks for testimony will move on. The mark Armstrong. Who is the. You introduce yourself and who you're with us and you're recognized sure my name is Clark I'm strong in a a citizen of Mountain View area I'm a licensed home inspector and state of Arkansas. And But not with any particular group and with mark Armstrong I'm just here to speak on I am against of this this bill and referred further specific reasons I'm going to read a little statement I wrote in all go through and answer any questions members got for me but the duty of a home structure home inspectors to the inspect the system and safety concerns and structural concerns of a property. M.. The. The emphasis is on safety is really what we're really concentrate on is make sure that the home is safe my understanding home inspector registration board was established to develop and implement and oversee a set of standards and procedures to serve the same purpose to ensure that the home inspector in the field home inspectors in the field are held to a set of standards to protect the safety of the consumers and I would hope that that same consumer safety would be a paramount concern to this body as well I came here years ago from a state where there was not only not a home inspector registration board but no rules concerning home inspectors that situation led to poor performance under train home inspectors have under trained home inspectors and continually resulted in buyers or risk as they moved into homes within recognized safety issues as Homer specter's we can testify to homes throughout the state of Arkansas that were built before the home inspectors functions as a trained and regulated body and some of those are a nightmare as home inspectors we depend on the board for guidance for access to good quality continuing education and support to ensure that those safety standards are adhered to throughout our industry with over four hundred inspectors and it's almost five hundred inspectors and in fact not three hundred fourteen in the State of Arkansas that's a big job is not one that can be handled by two inspectors or one that should be minimized as a budget budget concern my understanding is this state is currently operating on a hundred seventy five million dollar budget surplus that would seem to make the budget impact minimizing this important board both in substantial unnecessary and I urge you to reconsider that change and continue the board is current configuration to protect the integrity of the home inspection industry in the state of Arkansas I believe you can see the constructive conversations the two gentleman mentioned by simply improving communication within your organization I'm kind of old fashioned and I kinda go by the the thing that if it ain't broke. Six and we don't feel like the current system is broke and we don't need to have it fixed how we like dealing with people who are experts in our field and not an amalgam of have qualified individuals. And. I want to also address I think Senator has been made the comment that home inspectors don't take responsibility for anything and I know you didn't mean that as an insult but we do. But we also deal with entirely different set of structures we deal with the Senate structure things were inspecting are continually changing and one of the reasons that we have that statement and because I can inspect your roof tomorrow and tell you that is in great shape you get a hail storm tonight in the next day it's a mess I can't take responsibility for an act of god and so that's why that statement is there's not because we want to miss things matter fact we take pride in we crawl in every crawl space and. Places where appraisers and ABSTRACTERS' are never going to go just to make sure that the foundation is proper to the plumbing is right electricals done properly and we pull off the the safety of the dead front covers of panels to make sure the wiring looks good and we crawl into attics and all kinds of places making sure the people move into that house or save not tell you that as a home inspector I've been in a lot of houses in this state they were built years ago were you crawled across space and entire floors held up by a two before on a rock in that stuff that would not be seen by an appraiser abstractor and those are things that the consumer under buying that house need to know because I'll never see it without us they're not going to crawl around under the house and the nice thing about the way this is structured right now is I can call up Charlotte I can call up whoever it the board and I'm talking to people who know my industry not people that have a little bit of knowledge my industry but a lot of knowledge of other industries and get answers when I have problems and the other thing is that the consumers and I'm saying this from both the consumer and inspector because when I moved to this state I had an inspection of my home it was not good and I was able to use the board and column and find out what I should have expected what I can do to make it take get it taken care of and they were extremely helpful. Now I've run very very large companies all over the country and I've been the both the recipient of and the victim of efficiency experts over and over and over again and I will tell you that efficiency is not always very efficient and in this case I think this sufficiency would be inefficient and would be detrimental to the home inspection industry and I'm I'm thoroughly against. Senator Hester center Payton yeah thank you I I said to reiterate that I value what you get you and she does I I that's why I hire you routinely are you on the current board no I'm not do you would you happen to know when I can ask of somebody else how many complaints gets home sectors or in like twenty twenty two no you have to ask the board about the. Thanks. Senator paying. Thank you Mr. You may or may not know this but is Charlotte the lady with the board yeah she ever been a licensed home inspector. I don't believe so but I don't know that for sure but you made the comment a minute ago that you could call down there and talk to Charlotte and she's familiar with the profession so it's possible for somebody has not been a licensed home inspector to gain a familiarity with with the profession absolutely I believe that but the nice thing about having the board set up the way it is the Charlotte doesn't have the answers she's got five or six other certified people that know what's going on in a deal with this all day every day and not just at a second hand. thing to get the information and we get a good reliable answer quickly Sir thank you thank you Mr the other questions. Seeing none thank you Sir for your. The. One day in I'm not even a Trav ender. And wait Dwayne no grant. Introduce yourself and who you're with us I'm going to inform the president of the Arkansas association of real estate specter's. And the reason why I'm here and thank you for allowing us to speak today is that I'm just trying to figure out what is there a need to be a streamlined about whenever I renew my license I'm a licensed home inspector you know we have to turn in our last home inspection report. And our monies paid online and I know any time any entity goes from an analog system to additional system there's gonna be glitches that you'll need to be worked out. But it didn't take very long to get my license so I don't know what the argument would be about it you know it's taking too long to get a license I I don't see any issue with that if there is an issue by get a license means they determine something in their life and their insurance wasn't renewed or along those lines and the board will contact individual to I mean though the vote on it pending you know they bring in the rest of documents and then the their new what are board does is we provide the continuing education requirements every year which is fourteen hours required by the by the state hello we usually have up to a hundred members but that you know those numbers grow and I've got a lot of calls about the dissent on this bill. because we would like to keep our board to wait is because you've heard that it's self sufficient and we do we just yeah we don't need appraisers. To be get involved with our industry you know we just don't don't need of. And Senator Hester mission about the the liability of the board currently has a system where if there's a complaint made by the consumer or realtor or whomever as deal with the home inspector that miss a major there's a process to the State Board or has and they can provide provide a fee for that inspector can lose their license so the board is very important for the consumer and I just don't see the need and streamline anything on. On that end of it also our job is to educate those inspectors to try to make them a better inspector and we do that every year and COVID was kind of hard we had to DO PAS soon which is very difficult to do but this year we're or actually have it in person and what we're trying to better the industry on our end as a home inspector. So I'm open to any questions thank you Sir any questions. Go ahead Senator buying. Thank you Mr trump just curious about the C. E. use that is fourteen hours correct and you're with the association I'm the president of the association is providing the C. ET correct what we do. The process is what we'll get a list of topics find a a instructor get their bio in their background and their certification and we submit that packet to the board for approval and what they do is provide a CD number which is required on the certificate each class was as the number of how many hours and when it's time to renew your license you had provided that certificate that we provide that home inspector and as a member so do you believe under the provisions of this bill that that would cease I see almost factors maybe. Not be coming home inspector because of this The bill I mean I'm that's just my sums of the C. E. requirements would continue doing that a well yes yes that nothing will change on our end as as association but I see our numbers may be hurting of membership because of this bill because I mean we we've got a whole lot of fed up inspectors. because this bill once I was on the phone after nine talking to home inspectors and members of the of already into centers we can you tell us how it changes their industry it's just their personal on time on each individual not it necessary as an association but The home inspector. Yeah we we take right great pride in our industry and we just don't want somebody coming in and Midland in with our board that provides you know the consumer care and plus that we rely upon for licensing in Farsi II round is getting confused as a who's Board it is whether it's right or whether it's the specters Board thank you thank you Mr and the other point I wanna make is how long does it take for appraisers to look at a house number alone and they they rarely go inside or as a home inspector goes inside top the roof underneath and crawl space that has fallen and I'm a we we care about the condition the home where the pressure Care spot the value of that home. And I just don't see how I mean it's like having a a doctor a lawyer in a plumber on scene boards doesn't it just. Three different topics there and I just don't see how this is gonna work to be honest. Senator Tucker is like a lawyer be least paid in the. Should be. Thank you for your testimony rigid. The We have one last. Is it make Brad W. C. make Brad. Page. Introduce yourself and you're recognized chairman thank you I'm W. C. McBride and. I am a licensed appraisers certified in the state of Arkansas. And. Unlike the other operator is up here I was a licensed home inspector for. Approximately twenty some years. The. I have a little different twist on all less than what we. Talked about so far. I know what a brazier does I know what a home inspector does. And I had ownership right title company for about thirty years but as far. In this. We have talked about. Saving money and doing whatever I also served on the board of the home inspectors. For. The past six years seven year. I have watched the home inspector board after. I can't I'd hated. At a loss to say this how it was. Read. Done with the department of labor licensing. Our board is been self sufficient we protected the consumer. Our board operated in our own budget. Since this reorganization. We have been told we can't spend the money that we have in our county which is lower six hundred and sixty seven thousand this time. We could not hire an additional. Person to serve. With R. one person board because department of labor licensing would not allow us to. Even though we had the money there was a hiring freeze the. Department of labor licensing added additional employees got raises but we could not spend our own money to put an additional person in the position that we needed to help our board run efficiently. Now us being put with the light with the appraisal board I've been familiar with them since nineteen ninety five. Hello an appraisal in a home inspection are two entirely different things. They can be overseen on the paperwork side of it. Which is all the board is ever asked the department of labor licensing to do help us be more efficient. And there was a question about the phones all the time we had one person at the home inspector board taking in all of our revenue that were six hundred sixty seven thousand we had no. Reprimand other than we had one person. Since department of labor licensing took us over a person came took all the money. And. Left with it we had no record of what was paid and what was not paid but when it came down to department of finance administration auditing. They had questions we couldn't answer because that was a part of our job as the. Home inspector board. So in this I see that it could have all been avoided. If we. What allowed. The board to get some recommendations additional help and spend the money that was raised by the home inspectors none of that's tax dollars that's all raised by licensing and education fees so today I'm against this I'm for. Getting. More administration help in. If that means doing this or that but doing away with the board that is it. Ran this home inspection side getting rid of those that border. Is the reason for this bill being passed because we have been in opposition with the department of labor licensing. Since the inception of. Now. Any questions for. Thank you Mr I think I heard you say that You were a home inspector and appraiser but no longer home inspector I have retire and you're on the board are you can you tell me are you feeling one of the four positions as a home inspector or you there is a consumer advocate or what what type of slaughter you feeling on the board I served as a home inspector on the board through my two terms. The appraiser on the board term limited out and I would ask for the governor to serve as an appraiser on the board since I was both so we have more than four with experience in and there is not I just want to ask you I mean obviously you have a lot of experience in two or three different fields and and several of us do. there's nothing that would prevent the governor from appointing to this ten member board. People who might serve one of the other slots but have experience as a home inspector is that true. Yes the governor in the bill that I as I read it could appoint whoever there was designated though there could be more than two people on this board has. If a majority would to the home inspection process in business there says to home inspector right okay thank you thank you Mr. Any other questions. Seeing none thank you Sir for your testimony. We have one final. It is Daniel Burch can. It is yourself and you're recognized you overlook my name at the address below the level and so I was trying not to double one of okay I'm Daniel Burke at I'm the current chairman home inspector instruction board Hey I've been on the board I was appointed by governor governor Hutchinson I'll gosh in two thousand twenty thank right when the COVID stuff yet so I got my fill anyway I'm here date obviously here today to encourage you not to progress with this bill out out this committee obviously it'll be a great disservice to the people of Arkansas a little background since the home inspector inspiration board was created we've been through several difficult times with always overcome we've always done our due diligence to protect the people of Arkansas and to create a strong viable well regulated home inspection unit industry that's what we do. Since transformation and being drawn in under the department of labor licensing basically it's been a disaster okay it's been tough and I've been right now eleven unfortunately we've been told by our border a been told our board administrator we only have the once one state employee basically she doesn't work for the board okay she works directly to the for the secretary department labor licensing. The chief of staff has continuously put more more requirements on our ministry basically to prevent her from doing her job as efficiently as she has been in the past in the this is in the terms of you need to come to this meeting to provide this report or whatever and it's outside of her scope as far as the board is concerned okay We ask for preparations for additional employee you've heard that several times already we were told no wasn't feasible however executive staff contingency seems to hire more people is always new faces in that night building over there. The. Home inspector restoration board as you've heard as a self funded board a lot of the stuff you're heard already that I'm worried because I done this over the weekend. And everyone has the same opinion so the board effectively has no control over the moneys in that account okay someone stated we have six hundred sixty seven thousand dollars in Arkansas that's approximately five years operating expense I want to budget hearing legislative budget hearing last year they want to stay to reduce that down to three year operating expense in our funds understandable had in the Senate additional employee would definitely done that with some other things we have in works so we were on our way to do that. so we have no control over the moneys in that account the Department labor licensing has basically stated that they're going to move money regardless of what the board states now when I say that you heard another of previous board member talk about health certain limits that have been statute statute. Stated when what approval was of it is required for board chairman or other full board. So a lot of the times will get a memorandum of understanding from them. Add to our Mistretta that you will pay we're gonna take twelve hundred thirty five dollars or whatever okay well it gets done before the board even made so the board can vote on this is statute mandated by the way so there's a law broken there but we'll go for that sort. This bill emerges the boards of appraisers home inspectors an ABSTRACTERS' under one board Board obviously I believe this will be a detrimental to maintaining these groups addressing complaints. And effectively protecting the people of Arkansas following reasons are these are these three boards these three entities they are not the same okay we don't operate the same order we license educate or regulate the same have a single board will not provide the protection for people of Arkansas as they have in the past this is an ongoing issue with department labor license because they have tried to treat all the boards as the same all right this bill as written by the Department labor licensing. It's just their next step to control the power finances these of these ports that's what it's about it's about control. What about efficiency or any of that it is beneficial C. they give us another person we can be efficient okay. In our opinion they're not here to help that the people of Arkansas they're here to. Make themselves look good and that's what it comes out to okay number two this bill it deals with appraisers mostly okay. The appraisers the way this bill as written would dominate the board basically reducing the virtually eliminating the home inspector reps representation further appraisal law is very picky okay a very concise it will influence the findings of the board which could be detrimental to any complaints filed by the public. Number three regarding complaints the new board as defined by this bill will only represented by two home specters and Ollie obviously we're not adequately be able to address these public conveyance in the required time frame so. Someone has basically a public has twelve months to file a complaint with the board and the board has to meet on we have our investigator we go through stuff and try to try to resolve that within another twelve months it's kind of time frame that we have. Basically it would be they would be adequately understood okay again these three boards they're not the same we all do different things. The. The home spec licensing board is mandated to approve all required courses for license home inspectors okay this is about half of our workload for administrator this is the part there everyone seems to overlook their licensing whom the secretary department labor's license he's told me directly I'll just license no we don't that's only about half of our workload we approved vendors for education the board actually reviews all of the education course to see if it even pertains to stuff in Arkansas okay. I explain all this to me several or private meetings by the way which he refused to have me I wanted other board members and their budget one other board members because they be made public it will be public fine we don't do that so there's that. The. Secretary department labor Lysons was state that the home inspector board is very low numbers of licensees compared to other boards you've heard that that's true actually we have four hundred ninety seven as of this morning so the three fourteen don't know where that came from three ninety seven and I look at everything everyone else applications and I can tell you most of those about most of those people and autumn call me I've got inspectors call me as chairman the board all time ask me questions about stuff that's great we're here to protect the public give me a call I'll answer questions directly or a finance. But this board is a like the others okay we not only license our inspectors we handle complaints like other boards do we also hang handle regulatory issues licensing requirements that include all approved education hours of classes as provided for in our inspectors this is to better equip equip our inspectors to protect the people of Arkansas those approved hours go through the board to be review to ensure that conform with requirements the board set forth again is to protect the public that hires these inspectors. We have established thank you need to continue to improve our appreciate program we're revise any clarifying a code of ethics actually we also are producing a home inspector competency exam to replace the national home inspector exam that way it's more in line with the inspection procedures here in Arkansas again that's to better protect and serve the public. Finally the home inspector inspiration Board is only mandated to meet two times a year we actually meet monthly we've done that every year since I've been on the or every month since I've been on the board and they've done that prior to the reason we do is because we have such a heavy work load of stuff that we have to get through we feel it's our duty go through every not and not meet twice a year so we do that. Several of my fellow and current former board members of I have spoken the same issues and continue to this doesn't have as much to do with the money it's more what's right okay we understand that the governor would want to admit minimize the number of ports under the agency I understand that this move would be detrimental to protect the public and that's what we're all here for right. In closing I'm sure after this talk out my appointment will be revoked if the at the request of the secretary department of labor licensing because I've always been the one to voice my unfiltered opinion okay that's what I do I'm not a politician I'm not a bureaucrat I'm a simple businessman a business owner trying to do right by the people of Arkansas. Still have a with the questions. There any questions. Red Senator Hester I ask this question of little bit ago do you know how many complaints that were against the home inspectors in twenty twenty to twenty twenty two I believe there is twenty two or twenty three we don't have a lot. Don't say we have a lot we will comparatively that's a lot about twenty or twenty two twenty three so that is quite a bit how many how. Expeditiously expeditiously how how quickly you turn over those complaints previously they've been done within about three to four months right now we have a twelve month backlog the reason we have had a twelve month backlog is because a lot of Monday thanks copy and certified mail concert contacting the complainant and the inspector and all that are Mr simply hasn't had time to do it so one of the board members actually are real estate representative stepped up to help do these Monday thanks copy stuff and so forth and get all that stuff rolling so we have everything in the pipeline now. The most components of the got my attention because I understand when we start having this hierarchy that now we're asking your your only state employee to start attending meetings is that like. an hour a week is it three meetings a week is that one of my how much are in these extra reports I read you know that's of startek when you start adding layers of bureaucracy like how often are they really going to meetings and just from what because she usually sends me an email when she gets out of something because I'm the chairman she she communicates may pretty regular and daily actually sees probably in meetings or. Whatever you wanna call them anywhere from two to three times a week and then it may vary from thirty minutes to an hour I have two hours there was one meeting they were in for an hour to have talking about some management seminar they wanted everybody to go to a one now they're making a man mandatory so she's only out of office because they're making a go some mandate mandatory management. Seminar put on by guy he's got several lawsuits against bankruptcy and also so there's a lot of issues that's there's just ridiculous and then we got paid for that as a board so but that's mine and we don't really have any word on there it's going to take it out anyway. Thank you. Senator Biden. Thank you Mr not been resistant to get into deep on this because I plan on investigating it after we're out of committee but you being the chairman of the board you heard me earlier asked a question about audit findings evidently there was something that came up are you familiar with that can you tell us of what was going on and and I'd like to know how much money was involved. And where was for how long okay and who found okay there was. Three hundred and twenty checks I believe I think that's right number approximately eighty nine thousand dollars okay they were in the our ministry urged astral to the left I think maybe to have I don't know she had a law goalies in her log so we knew they were there and the board actually knew better as well but they weren't deposited I guess is the way they've got it there's process they have to go through all that stuff had not been done has not been process but we knew they were there and really I came down I need to or just hold on and we will get started Neal paying it all this stuff done and. They were there for approximately three months I believe a long time now a businessman businessman here you said you're you're playing I'm at that acceptable I am based on your budget that seems like a year's worth of revenue apps absolutely was not acceptable okay first off I don't realize that they're supposed to deposited within a ten day time frame so really that came down on me and that's just may not know when everything that they have to do that I don't know her job exactly so that was on me. The whenever it was asked about on I think it was auditor who asked about him she goes you have the right here here's the love to go with and. The went through and everything was there and that's all we got someone from finance actually executive executive crew or whatever come down and and actually deposit also servings handle that afternoon it was actually done so there was a founding it was dismissed over that or not I guess it was showed as being complete I forget how is worded there's a proper way to word that so it doesn't look negative I guess I said I don't know how that goes now prior to transformation you go back and look at all of our audits previously the one that has maintained that we've got every single year has been lacked personnel lack of personnel lack of personnel everyone of and it continues this way and that we just have this other AHCF funding on top of. Thank you thank you Mr thank you senator so. In the testimony. If you should this share board would have seven employees. Would that help. With your one employees. Eight ways on paper yeah I believe it would. In reality I have no idea a because. With the amount of work that we have since twenty well since two thousand nine. We had around two hundred fifty to three hundred license specters at any time and now we're almost double that okay low numbers as far as the secretary would say and that's fine but I'll argue with that all day we've got other stuff today So our workload has doubled any put on top of that everything that the department of labor licensing wants to shut down our throats say we've got to do this now too because it's we're managing it we wanna know what's going on well that takes time so. And on paper like I said actively if these people do are able to do that job absolutely so they they testified to three hearing thirty says at three fourteen okay and you're saying that is twice that for ninety seven. Four ninety seven. So I'm guessing maybe what they're looking at I mean what they're looking at but I I deal with that every day we I approved more news in that back in January personally have my name on I know there's more now. And they can now all of our board meetings are recorded in go back and read the listen to me and the other for board members read off all these numbers we had like six pages of numbers so. It's four hundred ninety seven all right thank you any other questions. Seeing none thank you for your testimony. Thank you. Going for the closing statement and and And discussion and motions after after we come back so. Let's see who we have the. Collins thirteen twenty five. Yes ma'am. Yes yes ma'am. Yes ma'am try to get. We'll try to try to get this one and come back. I appreciated Mister chair of trying to present briefly so this bill is is P. thirteen twenty five it would standardize the hours for early voting you know a lot of places where you might represent are just have one early voting site and those are at standard our setting code eight to six on week days ten to four on Saturday as in the day before election day is eight to five but some counties have multiple voting sites and one of the things that I ran into in this past election and other people who have local voting sites of all server into is confusion that arises when voters think that there's one set of ours but it turns out that certain early voting sites of other hours so this happened a lot of libraries here in Little Rock over this past election especially out west people would be coming in from their homes on the way to work will come in from the country that comment eight eight fifteen to try to go vote and it would be up until ten and I it yeah I got some calls about a lot of frustration you had some people who would just wait until ten and some people who would leave and whether they came back in all cases I'm not sure so I think you it's something that we can just do to help the people who are voting in our various counties and districts to have a standard set of arms so that we can communicate about what the hours are more easily and clearly so that people know what to expect and so that we are making things as smooth as possible for the voters there is a kind of a safe harbor provisions so if or County Board of election commissioners is trying to get a site at a certain set of ours and they cannot get their then then there's a a work around where they just have to be as close as possible after having made that effort that provision with that provision the counties are neutral on this bill and I don't believe there's any groups that are opposed to this bill in its current form it's just going to move us a little bit closer to be in Customer friendly or voter friendly when it comes to our really burning and without having to take any questions. Questions. Read. So there's provision so basically. If there's a polling site that doesn't want to do this they can make a provision and compete at ten o'clock instead eight o'clock anyway correct well I can't quite be that so I mean it's only if they're unable to get them at the the standard error so there were a few counties they gave me some examples of why they couldn't have their hours open a open the Senate arms in several places it was that they just didn't think there be a lot of voters at that time and those would need to be over the standard hours and other places there was one place and and one of the county is that uh really could not do it in that situation they would be allowed to deviate from the standard hours if I need to so it's a little bit. It's a little bit more than just advisory in fact it's a lot more than visor because you do have to make that effort and then if you can't get there you have to get as close as possible okay thank you sure. So could it depend on what remember volunteers that you got to to man those sites or. Well I mean is that always kind of is up to the County Board of election commissioners so they don't have on tears man the size they don't have to open the site at all but if they do open the site they do need to be at the center hours are and they keep that flexible and this go ahead. She just said something so they can't man at they don't have to open hours but if they can it's got to be by the standard hours thank me that causes confusion if they don't open it at all well if they can't man and then they don't have to open at all on a given day is once an order given site but if they have the sign they have to have that this at the same number of hours and if they don't have the people to open it then there won't have the site. Okay that's the case under current law they don't have the manpower to do to open it and they will be able to a okay thank you. Your answer but just real quick about hours not days right still up to the commission on. Having an additional site for a shorter period of time as far as days is concerned yes Sir thank you. Nearly questions. Seeing none we have no one signed up to speak for against this bill your clothes your bill I'll close to rail on Preciado good vote is or what's the will of committee motion by Senator do not send second by Senator flowers all in favor say aye. All opposed Like sign thank you senators we are recess until after German.