Public Transportation- House

first of all we're going to do H. B. twelve forty four I think we have an amendment FOR representative acre. Absent hawks going to present it so the president Holcomb introduce yourself you may begin. Thank you Mr chair RJ hawk District eighty one a committee members this is a house bill twelve forty for the amendment this was this past of this committee and went to the Senate and right before went into the Senate bill or caught a clean up on this on the effective date so if you look at sections two three and four it's of this actor effective on or after February first two thousand twenty five and so the Senate passes so now it's coming back to us for technical clean up and if without any questions I will take any any questions from committee. Anyone here to speak for against the member seeing none. Ferguson hall I'm close to bill appreciate a good vote. I make a motion all I make a motion to pass his memos passages Cozart ET all in favor say aye opposed Like sign hearing on congratulations amendment passes all right next we're gonna observe Gonzalez is not gonna be here today US or remove the house bill ten thirty eight represent Ladyman you can come and introduce yourself and. Receive you see fit. This long to civil. I'll try Mr Inman. Thank you Mr chairman of I do have a couple of guests I'd like to bring up to help me present the bill. I will get to cheer. Germany come up to introduce yourself and who you're with. Then we'll see. My name is Willie Watson I'm the assistant fire chief the city of Fayetteville. I'm Brad harden I am the fire chief the city of faith bill but I'm I'm here to speak on behalf of the state chiefs association. Thank you John. Well members this is a very short bill as you can see you've got a hand out I would ask you to kind of look at the front pages of those multiple handouts that are together there and and kind of look at that I referred to them as I go through my presentation here. But I I do appreciate the interest on this bill even though it's small but to me it's very important I think it's a safety bill so that's why I want to run this bill. So let me talk about what the bill does And and why I wanted to run the bill. So what the bill does is it allows fire engines and ambulances to display blue lights on the back of vehicles it mimics the Louisiana law. Is based on that law. And it's only on the back of vehicles. Only fire engines in the bill it actually Calls these firefighting apparatus that pumps water. And ambulances can display lights. Cup trucks and other personal vehicles of full time or part time firefighters cannot display the lights. Only fifty percent or less of the visible lights on the rear of the vehicle can be blue. No personally owned vehicles used for emergency response will be allowed to display the blue lights by this bill. Why we need this bill. It will enhance visual awareness or private citizens on a road ways. It improves private citizen motorist safety. It enhances respond or safety while working on roadway incidents. It could prevent costly apparatus repairs. For fire engines and ambulances as well as police cars. it matches surrounding states that allow blue lights on emergency vehicles. States who have laws that allow blue lights on emergency vehicles and members I would point you to the handout there's a sheet there that has all of the laws of the states around us on that sheet so you can look over that but here the states that have this law or a similar law in effect right now. Oklahoma Missouri. Texas Louisiana. Mississippi. Iowa. Maine Nevada New Hampshire and Washington. Every state that touches Arkansas except Tennessee. Has this law in effect. If Tennessee passes this law before we do will be last in another category in our region. Who supports this bill the Arkansas fire chiefs association supports the the Arkansas professional firefighters association supports the bill and the northwest Arkansas metro fire chief support this bill. I wanna give you a few other other points. Fire engines and ambulances are only allowed to have read an amber warning lights. That's the same color as all vehicles tail lights and markers and turn signals on the highways. So it can easily be. Not be recognized blue is not a normal color on passenger vehicles and his more brilliant and noticeable. Northwest Arkansas fire and EMS apparatuses have been struck by passenger vehicles while working incidents on roadways two of the incidents resulted in injury to private citizens. Blue lights. there's reports let me refer to those you have three studies there one from in CSL National Council state legislators one from a fire department and another from the department of justice the one for the fire department is funded by the department of justice and you have another one from the department of justice. Of all three of those studies in their conclusions state that they recommend all emergency response vehicles have a mixture of blue and red lights on their vehicles. Blue lights are more noticeable from a distance in the dark and in bad weather this is backed up by science. A. Red lights are more visible during the daylight and good weather. So another reason for this bill is we have higher speed limits this body passed a law to increase the speed limits so the approach time on emergency vehicles is shorter. So that means there has been a danger is higher this would help that. We have more distracted driving I don't think there's anybody in this committee that would argue on that. Blue lights would grab driver attention quicker I don't know about you all but if I see a blue light I hit my brakes are slow down so that that would give you a few more seconds to to see what's ahead of you. Drivers normally slow down when they see a blue light. Again if we don't pass this bill we will be the only state in this region that does not have this law except Tennessee I'm not sure where they're working on this for a. Let me give you some statistics the number of incidents on Arkansas roadways. Sixty one thousand incidents occurred in Arkansas and twenty twenty two. Six hundred and three of these resulted in fatalities. One first responder in West Memphis was killed. In twenty twelve to Jacksonville firefighters and one police officer was struck in an incident response one firefighter died at the scene the other two were transported in critical condition. In twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two the number of roadway injuries have increased. In twenty twenty there were fifteen thousand six hundred seventy five fire engines struck in incidents nationwide and this number is increasing. In recent years in Northwest Arkansas to large fire trucks parked on the road it's to protect first responders and police were struck causing injuries to private citizens. Again I'm referred to the studies that you have in front of you studies have been done for protecting first responders and again this is all first responders so you can look at those handouts the first one there is the Cumberland valley volunteer firefighters association did a study that was funded by the office of justice programs. The second one the justice technical center at the request of the National Institute of justice did a study and then the National Council of state legislators in response to my request did a study this section. Again one of the conclusions and all three of these reports was I quote emergency vehicles should be equipped with both red and blue lights. We may never know. The actual effectiveness of this legislation. But no one can dispute it will provide additional. Visual awareness for first responders and private citizens. So with that I'd like to ask my guest if they want to speak on the bill. Chairman representatives like I said my name's Willie what's on the assistant fire chief city of a bill of and doing this for about. Voting thirty years now the bill is a little bit near and dear to my heart obviously I'm I'm I believe an increase safety for my firefighters and for my friends and for for first responders across the state and and civilians it did operate on roadways across the state like I said this little near and dear to my heart I've got a couple of a couple children to do this profession and and work on the road ways on interstates and and and I want to increase the the safety out there for for them as well as anybody else house bill ten thirty eight does this like representative Lehman said it'd be very difficult to measure but we all know when we see blue lights we react right we do that with red lights as well I think there's plenty of studies out there that support red and blue and they indicate when those lights or more effective you will find it obviously blue lights are more effective in night time red lights or more effective during the daytime this bill is very restrictive we drafted the bill to be restrictive so that there's not miss you so that the fear of misuse would not be there it's it's restrictive enough that it says that the fire apparatus that I operate a blue light have to have water on the ambulances that operate blue lights will have to be able to transport a patient that's pretty streets directive we have several different other types of apparatus just in the city of a bill alone there's a couple of apparatus that don't carry water that have ladders on top of them and they respond to car wrecks and by this law they would not be able to operate those blue lights so we wanted restrictive enough so that there was no fear that these lights would be miss operated what we're doing is is literally trying to increase visual awareness and which is going to equal respondents civilian safety samples at increase to speed equals a decrease reaction times we all know that that's that's. The representative Ladyman had several different statistics there that they did that show that there's many studies in front of you that that say this exact same thing you know they really and truly fire apparatus placement nine times out of ten where do you see the fire apparatus when you see a motor vehicle accident on the side of the road or a medical incident on the side of the road it's usually placed at the rear between the traffic the oncoming traffic in the incident itself because it's rightfully so the real largest vehicle on the scene probably the most visual B. vehicle on the scene therefore the blue lights or not even visual because they're covered by that red fire truck and so we're just asking for fifty percent or less of the rear lights on a fire apparatus which generally accounts for eight lights total so for lights is is going to be the the roundabout number there no more than that on the rear of a fire apparatus to be illuminated when we're when we're operating on the roadways are operating anywhere we don't want to on the front of the fire apparatus we don't wanna mistaken for people people to mistake them for the police officers that are trying to enforce the traffic or or to pull someone over something like that we don't want that mistake being able to be made so that's the reason that we loaded restrictive enough to be on the rear the apparatus we do ask for your support we think it's important for the respond or safety in civilian safety for for Arkansas and it and it's and it's it's we we will we would like for you to to pass this bill with that said I move passes over to T. harmless to plain of funds so again I I'm not and I should clarify said state chiefs but I considers many of our brothers behind us I want to be clear state fire chiefs it is who I'm here speaking on behalf of this is so cheap watch mention the that where we park on the scene at being going to detail why we do that so we passed we parking we. Teach our firefighters this when they drive you know the park back cover half of that line and the reason they do that is to protect our people to include the police officers and as he pointed out the police officers are many times and in front of us that you know I mean I I we're just much slower getting to the scene and they are many times so so we park at the back in order to do that the did everybody get this diagram. One sure if you received it or not what we want to show in and chief what's had mentioned the the time and delays so say traveling distances four hundred foot it traveling at seventy miles an hour and if the person is in a tall hello and traveling down the road at seventy miles an hour there's another Tahoe in front of them. With that light being on top of that fire engine you're gonna be able to see that life a quarter mile faster than what you would if it was on the police car I just due to the simple height difference in the two so that was a notable difference that I that I wanted to point out to you and as he said the blue lights are more visible at night and and in bad weather so that the elevation combined with just the visibility itself we're hoping to you know had some safety for our people. And I think they've hit every other point that I had I don't want to be repetitive on and I'm you know I'm saying this I I guess in the end the all I would ask I would just ask you to ask yourselves I mean what what is going to hurt doing this you know we're open to any kind of Amendment were opened we just in the and want to see our people protected at all of our people meaning our citizens are police officers R. EMS workers we want to see all of them protected and and we may not have proof that this is going to say one line but if they did would it be worth it to you know just. With that I'd be happy to answer any questions if you have a question about that or just anything else Mister we can make one more comment before we get questions you know I'm glad our police community is here and I understand their concern as I've told me you I was a mayor and I work with police department all the time and I understand where they're coming from. but we really have to look at how things are changing and we have to route we have to look reality straight in the face and respond to it and I just would ask the committee look at the information is passed out. Don't go on a motion go on facts I would appreciate you doing that thank you Mr thank you of we have several people signed up test up for that we're gonna would take questions committee represent hawk recognized thank you Mr chair of representative Ladyman I I was just going over the notes that you said as far as fatalities or incidents on the highways you said fifteen thousand nationwide fire apparatuses were struck. With that number and have you looked at what the number is four police cars and have blue lights have been struck because I know like in my district just a year ago we had to Bryant officers that had they one saw the highway and mutilate their car because somebody was come along and they had a blue lights on so when when we when we talk about safety I I understand what you're saying I just does it I'm wondering is does it make that much of a difference because those were two officers that had the blue lights rolling on the side of the highway and both their cars got got mutilated if you look in the to the stats that will president of Hong Kong and that's a good question because. The recommendation of these reports are a mixture of blue and red. So that would hold true for the police cars as well as these fire engines. I would like to see the police look to look at the mixing those lines because the mixture is better than either of the red or the blue. So I I believe that might help protect our police officers. President Tosh recognized. Thank you Mr representative Ladyman yeah I think it was back in nineteen late nineteen nineties this legislative body passed a law that said that it was illegal to sell any kind of blue lights to anyone other than law enforcement and and I understand you're bringing this bill today and of course they felt so strongly about it that if someone so realized anyone other than a law enforcement it was actually a felony and the my concern is a one of my concerns I should say is is that this bill that you're presenting today conflicts with that law and I'm not sure how you would get around that it because it's it's not authorized even saleable realized anyone other than a law enforcement how would you respond to that. Well this law. It is a an amendment to that log in combat and all it does let me read the bill was stay. A lost it anyway it in that law at this list you can legally buy a blue lights. And that's a a fine do this from memory that's a police officer full time police officer a part time police officer or a corner. All this does is add fire chief an ambulance company owner it has those two people to that so it wouldn't be a conflict it would be a change in that law that you talked about and not representative Tosh I can definitely relate to what you're saying about limiting this up when I was mayor and we the commission the couple police cars but we broke those blue lights up with hammers because we didn't want anybody to get those blue lights but let me go back. If people want to get blue lights they can go on the internet by. Now. Of those are available or they can go to one these other states around us by. And I think that's a a bad thing but this bill really doesn't prevent those kind of things from happening so I appreciate your question. The enters recognized thank Mister of Lehman the chiefs I appreciate bill if you're going for visibility though what about a green like Senator above the blue light. So the national optometry Institute conducted obviously some studies and and they found that there's for color receptors in your eye and those receptors are red blue green and a shade of yellow and so all the colors that we see currently everything that's composed in this room is made up of one of those four colors or combination of those four colors and so you're II has react Tory facets inside of it let's see one of those colors faster than the other colors and therefore that's what makes teens and Reds and our tans and blacks and and and things of that nature and so the first color that you're I generally sees is a rate and the reason that you're I generally sees the red first is because the rates most visible in the light. And so when there's daylight outside or any type of lighting artificial or or natural red is the color that you notice or that your brain notices first or that your eye sees first and the next colors blue followed by green and then shades of yep and so therefore sometime ago whenever they started depicting colors for police cars and fire trucks and lighting colors and things of that nature that's why that red and blue was chosen and that's an interesting tidbit there you know but the red is the most visual color and blue being the second most visual color and your split second reaction towards those colors is why red and blue used is that does that kind of give you an idea of answer questions with. Follow up with a. Counted the items they can as a compromise you other states around this country to allow a green light on a fire truck I just think and to make our law enforcement happy and then makes as part of our industry saver two so one other thing I'll write about the green lights is that green lights are generally in and the Respond or community they indicate that that's the incident commander and so if you'll think back to large incidents that you've watched on the national level a lot of times if you see a vehicle that displays that green light that means that that is the area or the vehicle is actually in charge of that incident we don't wanna misconstrue that when we're on a small scene of such as the the roadway incident because sometimes the fire apparatus is not in charge sometimes the police officers not in charge and sometimes they are but that green light would have an indication to other folks that would respond to that and that may be the incident commander and so that's one of the other reasons that we don't recommend to green light however a lot of fire apparatus do have that green light on. I wanted to point out what the incident commander what that meant to us so on the scene whenever we we respond we're not like the police officers we don't go you know we going packs you see is right any the big scenes that instinct Manders one in charge all of our people are taught that they go to that incident command they know that that that is the person they're going to get an assignment that's where they're going to get an assignment the other thing that I would bring up is the psychology of a green light we're at where else you see a Green Line at stoplights right what's that tell you go the the blue light the psychology of it is with me anyway when I'm driving down the interstate is taken I mean I I let off the brakes whenever I see it a blue light so I that that that would be. Thank. One of the things representive Anders I mean that's a very good question but I think green just my personal opinion might blend in with a lot of other things around that are very like Trickey of greens a very common color so I don't know whether it would be as effective as blue which isn't uncommon color. All. Thank you Mr chairman of kind of piggybacking off of representative representive Anders and I had no I don't want to get into what what colors what but you know yellow is a popular you're with tow trucks right and and you see that it's very bright and going back to the psychology which is said you think yellow using slow down right you you think what was that why could we go with a yellow light taking it's bright it's it's out there I mean I just you know I I to what representive Anders was saying is that clearly there's you know we love I think it there's nobody on this committed says that they don't support both fire and police but the same time we want to make something work for everybody right and so clearly there's a group of people that don't like the blue and and I'm just trying to figure out what that compromise could be to where you guys would stay safe and what would your answer be to like a yellow light. Senate bill one point that I would make is if you look at all of the vehicles on the interstate and on the on the road right you see yellow and you see red on all vehicles that blue light stands out I mean it is different that is the one thing about that is unique it is very different and it catches your eye because it is so that would be the the one thing that I would point out. Again represent hawk we take you back to those three studies that are in front of you okay we're talking about safety I mean we might be talking about life and death we don't know we're talking about safety. So that those reports say the most effective is blue and red why would we not do the most effective thing to save our police are firefighters are are pedestrians that are on the road why would we lessen that especially when a majority of a lot of other states are already doing this and I ask in CSL to to look at these other states and give me some feedback is there any issues in the states and the that they could not find any so you know changes tough I understand that but we need to be the most effective we can to save all of our first responders police included so I wouldn't want to lessen that there might be other ways and as the chief said we're open I talked to a lot of the police chiefs and sheriffs and and we're open to amendments that we feel would be would be effective in would do similar things. Follow. I Mark. Or. have you had that conversation with the chiefs of police or sheriffs association it though maybe work out a compromise I don't I know they're here but I just you know you're open to doing an amendment have you had that conversation with them to possibly do something. Yes I have I've talked to the chiefs of police have talked to the chairman of the stroke association of top the secretary of the Arkansas state police and I you know I've asked them what what can I do to get your support for this bill and when we talk about what might be they bring up things in the past like representative Thomas was talking about you know other laws and things that have happened and when we get down to the bottom line there they haven't recommended anything that we can really do as a compromise maybe there's some things we haven't talked about yet but yes I have talked to all of them extensively an individual source an individual chiefs and individual fire chiefs that are not here thank you representantes. Thank you Mr J. bone go back to something you said while ago when you were describing the colors and do you allow the one that's most recognized recognizable to the human eye and you said I believe it mis understood you correctly but I think you said read was the one that you may not picked up the quickest we already have read and I guess I'm a little confused if you've already got the most recognizable color for individuals to see why would you why would you won't blue I mean you you you just said read and and that's what you've got so why would you want to change. So like I stated earlier read is one of the most visual colors when there's artificial or natural light sources red is not visible at night near like blue is blue the most visual color night and so to to cover all of our bases whether we're so if we think back when the most accidents occur right they occur on a nice sunny day when it's eighty five degrees outside generally not generally there's some sort of a weather event or generally there's some sort of a the visual impairment to whatever it may be but a lot of times they they occur in that type of atmosphere and so a combination of those two whites obviously is is the best thing that we can do we can have blue lights for night time read lots for daytime basically what we want to do is we just want to enhance the safety of our respondents at all hours all times of day on the road ways when they're working alongside that roadway and putting their lives in danger not only we want to protect the firefighters but we want the police officers protected we want the wrecker driver anybody that can be that's working on that roadway to be protected the biggest far the biggest truck on the scene like we said was the fire apparatus it's the tall struck on the scene there for we can see it from further distances we're just asking for a combination of lighting to be on that truck and obviously at that study in front of you that you can look at and it it it clearly states that red and blue or the best combinations as a matter of fact we should make an amendment to the law this is firing police apparatus in the state of Arkansas after have red and blue lights display. President will occur. Thank you Mr chair. Our chief thanks for coming out in nearly thirty years of living in the city if they have always been impressed and and proud of the work that you're fire service does for people I'm going to follow up a little bit on representative parks line of questioning but I want to address it to you she from the assistant chief have you had the opportunity to sit down with representatives of law enforcement and discussed the back and forth on what could be achieved together. So when I sent out the information pack and I think that each one of you have also sent that exact same packet out to the law enforcement agency heads or the the the difference so she ation and so that they can pass it on to their individuals and so you know we have reached out and and and and tried to come up with some compromises and I've had a lot of good feedback from our officers and you know our our law enforcement community a lot of the things that we did on the front end were because of them you know the fifty percent rule that the the the fire apparatus that carries water was an amendment that was made to this after this bill was filed and things of that nature and that all occurred because of our law enforcement community and our partners that we did speak with and so yes I will have to say that we did adequate communication back and forth and I and I think they would probably echo that as well as early as just yesterday I mean a lot of times we were going back and forth an email thread from just yesterday so. I personally have not they as I mentioned to you before the meeting I I I should have sat down I'm I'm a close personal friend A. J. Cantrell and I just found out that that he had contacted. Representative Ladyman yesterday so I I really wish I would have a sit down with him and and blessed with them over it I did not you know shame on me I will say we keep on saying that were open term and we truly are this morning I and I can't remember which one of these two came up with the idea but I would Pitsch out there maybe to hear what they have to say because in the end all we're we don't care where driving when driving down the road it's pretty much our fault if we get in an accident at that point is when we come to a stop that's what it's on the interstate on a stop that that is whenever we get our people kill we would be completely open to ideas maybe how can it to where the blue lights only activate whenever that parking brakes on so that would make it impossible for us to pull somebody over me would already have to be driving backwards to pull it over with weight loss written but it would make it impossible for us to use it in that manner so it but you know I I have not and shame on me for not doing so but I do know the chief what to have been reporting back to me that he had been contacting work. President Whitaker I know you ask them but but let me just say something on that and and you know I would be happy to amend the bill with that suggestion if that's a compromise we can live with. But I I just wanna give you this is a response to what Chief what's communicated I'm not gonna say who it is that this but I want to give you Why this particular person was opposed to this is a member of the police but I will tell you that is but it says you know most members are opposed to this in and gave three reasons they're opposed number one they are concerned with who gets the the lights next last session wrecker drivers wanted blue lights for their trucks that's the one concern number two they do not want the public to be confused when they see a blue light. A I know one three fire trucks are not going to be going down the road backward but the public does know that they are displayed on the rear big does not know that they're displayed on the back trucks and the third suggestion they do not believe blue lights or more visible than read especially on huge trucks more often than not the individuals they have police cars are either intoxicated or distracted and I believe these reports show that they are effective the lights are expected. Follow up. well Chief thank you And I've tried I've told people before coming in here today I really hope you can find some middle ground here because I see our law enforcement and our fire service as to Senator wheels on our card. We can't and the I hate these things when we we could end up in a situation where to arm of our most essential it's in our institutions of public safety are in conflict and. Please. If you all could. Work on this some more and I'm I'm a return law to miss I believe there has to be a middle ground somewhere that something can be done where we get the safety effects without the confusion in the public thank you. Anymore questions from committee. Okay then we're going to start to regional and we're going to start questioning Sure. I apologize for not saying this earlier and and after you make that point I just wanna apologise each of you for for putting in a possible I mean this is impossible situation there's no right vote here and I apologize for that I'm sincerely do I hate that I know I know that you can support us but and you can support us both in this instance I apologize for the situation you're in okay thank you Jennifer you testimony. Of. Resume let me keep your seat we're gonna alternate for and against us speak against the bill Rodney right from the sheriff's association's Shepherd you. Identify yourself where you from and you Chrissy. I'm on okay. Sure running right so when County then the reducers upon. I'm Scott Bradley in the Director of the Arkansas share socialized thank you jim actually. German. I'm speaking on several with several asked today first as a sling county sheriff the also the president of your association. But also as a. Brother of a full time firefighter an uncle a full time firefighter and a father of a full time firefighter you're not going to find a more sympathetic law enforcement officer for the fire service and make. If I thought this bill would increase the safety for those three I would absolutely before. But I don't believe that it will increase the safety of those three. If anything is going to blur the line of law enforcement. You know we we talk about the the fire chief made some good points. we don't want to make mistakes we don't want mistakes happen out here on the streets yes the public will see the blue eyes in the back of the fire trucks in there and the loss would would read if it passes that they are to be fifty percent visible. It's going to educate the public on that. We are on the side of the streets law enforcement. I can tell you an incident when I I was on the interstate so we are to go on patrol and I try to pull over a vehicle that some out of state just kept going. We passed two exits you can only imagine where my sense of awareness is now at this point. I've only had terms are not I got the vehicle stopped. You know they said to me without your fire truck. I said do what so yeah in our state of our trucks have blew out. I said what do you not a yield of our trucks they said yeah we did we went to the right lane we were yielding for you. That's why they didn't stop there. Good and think I was law enforcement. When it when that happens now you've you've you've opened up a whole nother can of worms here you know what we drive by accessing you see if our for a complete loss on the back of it okay. How do they know they're not on the front. In their mind they just all blue eyes so the next time of a vehicle gets behind this got blue eyes. Well I'll I'll yield to him I'm not gonna stop and gonna yield. We don't need to blur that line and we don't need to be educating the public on the side of the road. When we're trying to stop on for violation and that was going to use this as a defense now. We're going to reply to all the says you can't use as defense that you thought that it was a fire apparatus behind you because you saw on an accident earlier that a fire apparatus had blue lights. There's a lot of things This this is a law can open up. You know we talk about. Also. This is one of our tools. In order to a bag is is blue eyes people see the blue light excellent that's law enforcement. You know I've got my brothers it is a twin we look exactly alike. I've never been criticized or chastised for being mistaken as a firefighter never. Him on the other hand. Several times being mistaken for a police officer. Is being criticized or ridiculed out in the public. In the role agencies. The trucks with water there responding to all calls they're responding to medical calls the responding to vehicle accidents on the county and they get their way before we do. And when they're there and they're parked out front of someone's residents with that blue light flashing on the back of it. And the people inside didn't want law enforcement there. And then starts to react to those firefighters we're not there yet. You gave the one tool of many tools of law enforcement given the blue I didn't given the vast you didn't give me a gun. But you gave a toll that would represent a law enforcement. Out in the county. It may be five ten fifteen twenty minutes before we get there don't put our reserve our volunteer fire departments in that position even our full time performance in a position. I don't want someone mistaken my son. My my. Brother. On the side of the road a police officer. Yes those trucks are huge fire trucks and we love them. I will park in front of the I don't park behind them. And just like the fire chief said that's a big truck and we know if we parking in front we're we're a little bit more protected just by the mere size of the truck. You what I've got another sheriff here that's going to speak. And he is a sheriff on the border of Texas. And he'll tell you that the problems that that having blue lights on construction vehicles and yet you're right there states all right missus got blue eyes on different vehicles and their problems all around. Just because the states around us have blue lights don't mean that we need to go to that problem have the same problems or have. There's a state trooper here that I will tell you about all the accidents that's that's we've had over the last two or three years the number of patrol cars being hit. I had one in my department hit last year I myself have been hit on the interstate. While someone was changing a tire under vehicle I was part behind and semi took the driver side of my vehicle off. My blue lights didn't protect me it's not a protective bubble as distracted driving that we've got a problem with and we need to have we concentrate on for all of us for fire and us. But I honestly believe this is not the bill that needs to blur that line between law enforcement and fire department. We don't need to put them in that situation where someone might think there law enforcement. Thank you questions from committee. Seeing none okay thank you for your testimony here thank you. Okay next speaking for the bill John sorry fire chief of sure would far apartment John if you would identify yourself. Good morning my name is John Sawyer I am the fire chief of the Pulaski County fire protection district five we operate as the sure would fire department I've been with the sure fire department for twenty eight years. Another thing that I do I am an instructor and I'm proud of this I'm an instructor for the traffic incident management system. And our main goal in the traffic incident management course that we teach to all fire all law enforcement all tow truck operators dispatchers is we teach how to be safe on a vehicle accident on an incident. And with that is we teach everyone how to position a vehicle how to make yourself aware how to throw cones how to put out light. Signs. What that. Part of that is the lighting systems I won't repeat what you've heard this morning on the studies done with the blue versus the red and how it does we all know for a fact the blue lights get attention we know that. If that wasn't the case then you can pull up a social media post right now where a police department has posted a picture of their cruiser and where it says have been causing your heart to skip a beat since nineteen thirty five blue lights get attention. Again the blue lights are less than fifty percent on a large. One million dollar fire truck not fire truck is read it will not be mistaken for a police car. And make this quick. In the Arkansas motor vehicle in traffic laws and State Highway Commission regulations these are laws. It says in here twenty seven dash thirty six dash three oh three. A lot outlines police vehicles will run blue lights. Twenty seven dash thirty six dash three oh four outlines that fire trucks fire departments will run red. Well I'd like to believe that there are some law enforcement agencies currently right now in the State of Arkansas that are running red and blue. So in in my opinion and I would think they actually see the benefits of running red and blue lights. All we're asking is to be able to give a safe area to catch people's attention we know blue lights because be able to slow down because yes they do not want to get a ticket. So it just brings attention to our scene that we may be there anywhere from thirty minutes to two plus hours. All we're trying to do is go home and if something that's less than fifty percent on the back of a million dollar red fire truck if I can get us home then there's no argument. Thank you thank you any questions from committee saying none thank you for your testimony. next speaking against the bill a major run Casey Arkansas state police. Thank you would you come identify yourself you may proceed. Don't tell. Good morning my name's Ron Casey on major of the highway patrol division Arkansas state police. Give a little background on myself and it's not to be breaking but it just shows how long I've been working in my experience in this field I started my law enforcement career may fifteenth of nineteen eighty nine want to work for the state police in nineteen ninety two. the reason I say that is because I first went to work we have some rotating lights or blue only. And at some point like in ninety six ninety seven the Arkansas state police actually went to adding a member to the rear of a blue lights. So it was always been a concern of ours that. Leased cars sometimes a target and we're not as safe as the big fire truck and we've always made a practice like this man alluded to before that we actually parking from the big red fire truck. When you get into visibility issues the fire trucks have bigger lights on the back there are larger of their more visible from a distance. so if you're going down interstate especially when we're blocking a lane we always have a fire trucks and bigger apparatus is behind us to get traffic over. This man running not joke but it's statement that we've always made is. People get over for fire trucks and ambulances a lot better today than they. Share brought it up is about being a target law enforcement in a bad way right now some we brought on ourselves. But just the whole country is kind of down police so we are targets and we've actually been targeted by people we don't want the fire service to be part of that target. we had twenty three trooper car struck and allow. Caress that one traffic stop. We've had in our state. With the blue lights flash. So I can't really see where the blue lights are going to help the fire service I think it's going to cause a lot more problems. And she for sure with this brought up the blue last to bring attention they did it but we don't want to be negative attention to the fire service. Criminal purposes. Lack of better term these thugs these criminals at hear. They will actually come towards the police car we've been around for criminal purposes. the future also is something that state police is concerned in on if we open this door up to blue on the rear only. It could lead to some of these volunteer fireman they're going to misinterpret their own laws and start running blue on the front we've seen. we same to where these volunteer fireman they extend and push the issues of the capabilities and and their legal rounds to the limit. I remember stopping young kid that was on fire service in North Little Rock coming out of Camden and he drove his pick up all the way from Camden with his lights and siren going to respond to the call in North Little Rock. So they can push those issues. We all can. another thing that concerns me is is there bill shows that they want to have a pumper or something it pumps the water only. Yet they do have a hazmat trucks they do have ladder truck. The same. Why not are they asking to put blue lights on the back of the because they do respond in the same and and they do help block traffic so that's one of our concerns. One of the things brought up about. The yellow lights in the red lights on normal traffic well yeah they're on their for brake lights and turn C. that's the purpose of those lights so it's not uncommon to see those lights and people don't react to those and make sure don't react sometimes to crash scenes in traffic stops. Most people get over for the fire trucks and and what's. There's several times of almost myself being hit by people that does not move over and we have a move over law in the state of Arkansas. But they're gonna have our doors I'll almost been hit several times in my career. We're not against the fire service I rely on those people have for over thirty years. I'll do anything in the world for a lack chair frat said we don't need to blur that to where we have a mission. We'll what are Division is and I'm not saying Division of not working together but what the job description yes. Thank you made you any questions from committee of represent hope you're recognized thank you Casey how often is a fire apparatus on scene by itself without having some cells were blue lights already on scene as well that doesn't happen very often I mean I I may have to ask when fire chiefs when they come up again but is there ever is there many situations when the fire apparatus is sitting there by itself without some sort of blue lights in the area yes a lot of times it does happen in all this state for the. We're spread out so much it made that we got one trooper covered for three counts it happens today right as we speak and local fire departments will arrive on the same long before we and as as a matter of fact I think it's not an exception is the general rule judge thank you. Resent how hard to secure I mean I just had a question so. So you you need to please cars behind or in front of a fire truck and so you can using the fire truck as a shield so I understood I guess I kind of struggle is why are why not give the one you're using as a shield for you for your trucks two cars all the lots they could possibly use to distract me to you know a tract people to where they would go around that one why would you not let them use any lights that they needed to to protect their the one that's going to be the first one hit. I understand your question I think it is more bills down to learn that line between law enforcement the fire we don't want to put undue. hazards to them on what they already face everybody loves a fireman. Not a by law as a police and I'm not trying to dumb this down but. We we actually really love our cars would rather have a new car than ready so we protecting the best we can. But and we use those we use those big apparatuses for the safety of everyone because if an eighteen Wheeler hits a fire truck. In my moved away but if it's hits my Dodge charger I'm going along. I do understand your question and. We want them to be as safe as we are we want everybody to be safe for public use everyone I think that it just crosses that line where there should be a separation of the two two departments. Yeah I see that I but I struggled follow at. I Driving at night back from Little Rock I mean it definitely the blue stands out I mean you can see a long ways away and you keep your eye on it and you I mean it's to me it does catch the at nights more than the red does so I just don't understand why I don't think anyone thinks far transform over and I think a fireman who had on the back of his truck probably accepts that responsibility that they could be a target like y'all I don't I'm kind of. I can see where it would be more protection for them as a dad that was residents near Martin highways for my whole life you know I know that it's dangerous out there so to me I'm thinking The more there's something to a tractor I so that you know to move over the better I mean this is rob but I would think I do understand. We also have this concern and sheriff right did bring it to. Fire truck pulls. House. Smokes coming out it turned out to be a meth lab and blue lights are flashing on the back the homeowner might come in with guns blazing because he sees the local and this person may be home at the he might not or she may not be differentiate that fire truck or police car and we have big apparatuses to we have a slot what we call the bare it's a very large. It's a tactical we hit. Is very B. it's it's the size of of a small fire trip and it has blue lights on we don't want them to get. Drawn into the lack of training we have they don't work in some places they do they have to nowadays but. Are not trained in law enforcement to deal with these crazy people they know where best majora the time to their scenes and they're not carrying against so we don't want that to come to them unnecessary. Any other questions Committee. Seeing none major thank you testimony. The next speaking for the bill a chance right fire chief Johnson part part. Chief introduce yourself. We represent you may personally. Thank you Mr my name is chance right the fire chief for the city of Johnson for those who don't know we're just says we're just a little north of fable we have a approximately two miles that we cover of I forty nine north and southbound northbound we help Springhill southbound we help it will. Last year in April twenty fourth. We actually experience an accident. Where are two thousand nineteen fire apparatus which we love dearly because it was new we don't really get very many new fire trucks with the small city that we are. it was on the interstate roughly around three forty five PM. Conditions were poor visibility was low however we were on a straight stretch of I. forty nine. Read over the Venice bridge where we had our red lights we had amber lights with directional signs on. We had comes out. And the ambulance that we were protecting was in front of us. We had a car that was sideways on one lane of the road. And my driver had parked appropriately. right around four o'clock my sis and she calls me while I'm home is on a Sunday. And says Hey our fire truck has just been hit. And for a small fire chiefs you know in the department that are size that is terrified me my first instinct thought that I just lost farm I just thought I lost you Miss workers. I got to the scene. And we had a. Small passenger car. That had a fire truck going seventy miles an hour. There's three lanes on I. forty nine. It was just raining but typically it happens a lot where visibility is low. Now we did have a police officer there. There was no blue lights. And we're dentistry strips so what and someone C. eleven foot tall thirty two foot long fire truck that has reflective chevrons on the back directional lighting with amber lights and red rotating lights on the back. Still during the day I understand is it not I mean is low visibility. Now I'm out of a million dollar fire truck. Three. Kids were injured. One had to have facial reconstruction three times one had a broken neck. Likely they'll survive however my fire truck did exactly what was supposed to is protected the EMS workers and the other people. That it was we were working accident for so that we have two separate accidents. I read usually run on average sixty to seventy car accidents on I. forty nine a year and that's I know doesn't seem very low however read seems very low but for my city of four thousand people that's that's quite a bit we normally run for EMS calls and such however. With I. forty nine the way that it is my area. There's very few times that a state police officer will beat us on scene and I'm not by any means talking negatively toward our state police we love police I was military police officer for ten years a sergeant the army I understand very will with police officers however while. On scene we have bad weather. There's several accidents that occur at one time all throughout the Interstate where we just bounce from accident accident and there's not very many police officers to help us in a way of slowing down traffic with their blue lights I see it firsthand as I usually go to the scenes and I can see the difference between people not slowing down for fire trucks verses when there's a police officer there because they're terrified that they're going to get pulled over one of the things I wanted to. Bring up about the difference and pops with blue lights being on a fire truck we're not talking about my truck is an instant commander just a regular Dodge pick up having blue lights on we're talking about a fire apparatus an actual specific truck that carries extrication equipment or carries firefighting equipment on that fights fire or is able to run on motor vehicle accidents that would have these lights on so not your typical actual command vehicles The ability that we have in our fire apparatus as well as we have many different you know just funds that we can switch off blue lights that we feel comfortable that we go into a. Different part of town where we're fighting a fire we can easily shut down a blue light on the rear I mean there that that shouldn't be an issue so that's all I. Any questions or comments thank you for your testimony. All right the. All the testimony now will be against the bill of. Jeff Hager chief sure would police department. Jeff you. Defy yourself you may proceed. We've been here a long time German Mr. longing but we can get your. Pertinent information thank you. I'm I'm Jeff Fager I'm the chief of police sure would please apartment I'm here to speak on behalf of the Arkansas chiefs association. I'm very psyched the Director of the Arkansas social. Kwidzyn thank you and I'm not going to bore you with the with a lot of things that have already been said the chiefs association is supposed to the the bill and and and it's like many of them is that already more eloquently than I could but we this is this is this has nothing to do with the the fire department you know my fire chief is here and he's already testified he's a good friend of mine we've discussed this hi this is in about to me the I'm not convenience we have more police cars getting hit on the side of the road and we do any other vehicles I'm not convinced that a blue light is going to make a difference but what I am concerned about is when you take into consideration over the bill that came for last year to put blue lights on records now this year we're talking about putting blue lights on fire trucks you know and ambulances we we had talked a lot about Ames does that's that's covered in the bill as well and then next year you know is it going to be you know what's it going to be I just think that there is if we remember back into the nineties when we had the blue light rapist you know one of the concerns that we had backed it during that time was controlling those blue lights as the as the German said while ago talking about Christian the blue lights when they they took a more police cars I think that it is something that we need to to be cognisant of them we need to protect and that that's really that's all I've got on answering questions you're in good. Yes Sir real quick I was the The sheep in Jacksonville one captain Jones by master firefighter in my police officer dematteo were hit the fire or like Senator captain Jones died in the personality the individual that struck those officers went around blue lights the one run red lights instruct these guys purposely and we did charging will homicide so no matter what color white that night it would not have say. In addition I would like to bring up that did if we do work on this the statue twenty seven thirty six three oh four that's mentioned in this bill talks about private fire departments private ambulances but it also talks about firefighters being able to display a red light on their dash House. I believe that they'll like that is okay it's not written eligibility Cabot just recently of we had an incident where a vehicle accident occurred on the overpass the vehicle went up on the other. Cavenaugh officer went down on the freeway to block the outside lane because that's where the vehicle overhead laws to divert traffic into the inside line. The yeah back of is please car was hit by a semi tractor trailer truck that didn't slow down at all likely the officer was out of the car so again well the last and help their the idea we don't want to get across why with our brothers at that the fire department but this is something that we we what's been said before we don't we won't law enforcement to be recognized blue our fires areas. Thank you to all of the lights the today we have LED we're either red or blue. We'll. Thank you committee any questions committee saying none your. Thank you Jennifer testimony next speaking against the bill I believe that's Bobby Walraven from not from correction Bobby's with the sheer sociais Haitian. But within for yourself. Mexi. I'm Bobbie Walraven share for Little River County for those of you that to your trying to figure out where to say that we have Texas no Oklahoma is borders so I'm here to to talk to you about. Earlier you heard that the neighboring states have already gone to this well I'm suffering the consequences of taxes going to it how we forty one is the first Arkansas highway that you come to that you that you can lay taxes income in Arkansas. So we are having a lot of difficulty stopping vehicles on highway forty one one day Texas not counties is rule and we all drive trucks they're marked their blue light but people refused to stop because they just left Texas and there's a lot of construction going Texas only interstate and I think it's a. A construction worker. So a first we we went on alert when somebody didn't stand stop so you you've got other officers coming that way the officer this Madam I mean he's he's on high alert but now I'm what I'm worried about is got to the point to where they say Hey they just I come construction worker my fear is is one that date to finally get some to pull over in about three four miles is somebody with a gun. Because he's become so relaxed now we're on a slippery slope. We started in the nineties S. as representative said I got a bill for thirty four years by the way. And we made a felony to us to sell the lights position lights. Because when you look in that rearview mirror and you see a blue light you expected be a police officer the stopping you and we had a problem with what they call the blue light rapist. And with this slippery slope that were going on. If this is passed I'm afraid to where it's going to go in like they said next year to year after. the previous administration before I came in he had a vehicle that had red and blue lights in the officer got run over. So it didn't help you committee the only accidents I've had it with the commercial vehicles and in a county has been law enforcement had been fire or ambulance or anything like it it's been law enforcement I don't think this is the fix. United I do understand and appreciate the concern about every administrator that that you talked to about the safety of their employees the blue lights put motor vehicle put a red dot on the is not the solution. You're creating more problems than you are of helping. you know if it I'm the type if it would keep everybody safe and you could put thanking purple polka polka dots on everything then let's do it. But folks just not going to help. I don't want to lose focus on why this law was passed here. In a nine X.. It was for the safety of the public. And. Again with Texas border and may I am having a a problem you've heard a lot from the people in the interstate but is as a border County. I believe that even have SWEPCO the electric companies committee will blue lights coming down the road they forget to turn off these construction workers forget to turn it blue lights all in just driving down route people are trying to pull over your head toward the ditches. Because I thank emergency vehicles coming out. So today it is blue lights on back of our trip tomorrow school be on record in those same individuals are not going to turn these lights off just like my Electric Company and going drive down highway with blue lights going. So I'd like to say that I appreciate everybody here in your service and thank you for allowing us to to speak to you today on this topic. Again it of all I've already seen the problems with this passion. Thank you represent bearing you're recognized thank you Mr chairman and I see sure Scott Bradley at the at the tables and it represents your social issue I'd like to see I'd like to hear what the position is of the sheriff's association sent you represent of the service of all the counties in the state of Arkansas thank you yes Sir I mean I'm talking all the shares have not really found the sheriff it's in support of this bill right now I work for them I'm going to do what they ask me to do I'm the director now this year associations that's what I do for them and talking to them they were adamantly opposed to this to this bill I think most accidents that were having our because of in and represent vitamin said earlier it's it's distracted drivers or its ones that are that are under the influence of something or that that causes these accidents. you know we don't want to be into it whether they're fire firefighters know far cheese we would have a great deal of respect for them we work with them every day and we see what they do. It's not that we don't care but this is a very important issues this is a very important issue to law enforcement and it's it's important to us I could fill the room with. Alamos's seventy five shares but I don't think that's what need to be done so we got a handful here we want to come share with you guys our thoughts and will read on the subject thank you Sir thank you yes German. Resent all procedures chair this questions for Mr Bradley is there such thing as a blue flare. Blue flared out. Thank you all you know you have like a red flare is there is there like a blue flag I'm not sure I'm not sure and that's a thought I mean that that would be a thought if the if the law enforcers not on the same the Committee what I was. Would would would the sheriff's association be opposed if there is such thing as a blue flare to for fire apparatus is probably take that back to my body in a school I don't I think that's a lot different than having blue lights I think the big concern as a share of just touched on is where does it go from here engine is where does it go from here so that we're going to have fire trucks on the back and once is on the back next last session we father wrecker truck drivers going on their trucks because other states at one we had to fight against them and about some of those guys are felons that's fine they've made a mistake in their working we want to working but do they need blue lights on their trucks I mean there's it we're just afraid this is everything snowballs I know that's not the intent of the law and you're going to represent my men say that. But we know we're without everything snowballs at the present hard. I was waiting on him to quit I forgot my question. The okay okay okay any other questions. I know it was okay continua sorry I turned fifty last year's on losing my memory. I don't know I was wondering was so talking about an amendment because the ultimate goal is to save lives. drive distracted people pay attention different colors different ways. So your fear is a car driving down the road with those lots on causes issues and you can see that what what what what would it be say like if there was the amendment to where that car has to be in park for those blue lights to work on the back is that an option of any kinds and you work with I still think this is going to be a slippery slope you know today's that and into March somebody else. Yeah I had I wish there was nature an easy answer for you but. I don't see the easy answer but putting blue lights on nonemergency are non police vehicles is not the answer thank you school create problems I'm seeing it like I said in Little River County it's on it's on everything coming across at Texas border every truck ever car every electric truck I'm talking about with a bucket truck you know it's it's continuous problem and I've heard that you know all of our neighbors are doing it but I've never looked out my window and looked it looks the same my neighbors making a mistake and I said I will run out and do the same thing. You know it's just not gonna happen. Okay thank you for your testimony German we have one more a sheriff bill cook from Mississippi County sure if you want. There far yourself you may proceed. Thank you Mr chairman. I have a few comments to making a try to keep it brief is I made some notes here. The my name is Mississippi County sheriff Dale cook. I would like you to know that I worked twenty three years with Arkansas state police serving here placed in lone oak counties in Mississippi County were retired in a I'm currently in my thirteen years a county sheriff Mississippi County. A home also the first vice president Arkansas sure socialization I would like to bring some important facts to this committee that the has been brought up that they didn't know about. The I have a State trooper friend in Mississippi County is a C. thirty four read Hitchcock he's been struck at least twice in the city council what working accidents in a stationary mode. So I think that could answer representative question where are you moving or you're not moving. Of I have had We've had numerous Arkansas state troopers killed in Arkansas home state and and interstate highways in Arkansas over the years numerous ones. Just recently I had the the A female deputy working for me deputy Casey Van that diet can J. January was trance the dispatch to an accident on I. fifty five near Blount sixty seven mile marker. During that last or a she got there she stopped because there was a truck across both lanes of interstate had it blocked she pulled up and stopped the header blue latch running and then was struck by two semi trucks and sandwiched or have the other one she sustained injuries have to be let me transfer up forty to the hospital. And personally while working as a state trooper I've been struck numerous times on highway sixty one and state highway three twelve in Mississippi County while stopped working action yes with my blue light training in and the two cases or both of those cases we had the records there with their lights going to. My point is the motoring public reaction differently at different times and they sometimes radically when they say blue lights I mean I've tried to initiate traffic stops in the past and in they didn't in the blast and get their attention for a while sometimes a mile or so anyone they finally see the blue lights and a jock jerk off to the center median of that outside meeting or I've had I'm spot right in front of me on I. fifty five. So they do radical things when they see blue lights. Blue lights in my opinion do not stop motorists from driving radically on our state highways and interstates and they do not stop the motor is from killing our people out here are officers whether it's a law enforcement officer or a firefighter our friends I respectfully earlier testimony was stated I have not had an opportunity to speak to representative Ladyman although I have had several opportunities to speak to. Representatives in my area of northeast Arkansas joint card Jon Milligan Johnny right senator Dave Wallace in ms representing Mississippi and created counties. also my and the blue lines represent law enforcement. Red latch represent fire trucks yellow latch represent records in red and sometimes yellow latch represent ambulances purple latch represent Hurst and I believe by state state you although I can't quote that state you right now I didn't plan on bringing it up but is is a state statute. In the bar any questions I thank you very much for allowing me to speak today I want to god bless this comedian everybody working on it god bless our firefighters and representative Ladyman and with that I will close unless there's any questions. Any questions. Okay seeing none. Of homes I'm sorry I missed I missed someone on the chart I didn't speak it Matthew Stallings. The correct. Are you going testify okay committee. Thank you. Thank you your. Math if you can. We were alone other. Resident lady was going close act you know to how long it's going yes Sir I'm I will do my best to be brief and trying to the labor any points that we've already gone over extensively I think one of the things getting lost in this is you know the color of our lights respective to the color of tail lights on the interstate so when you're driving down the interstate or any kind of freeway we have red lights tail lights are also red lights they blend in especially in an ideal on ideal conditions I think the other thing that's getting lost in this is there not these the blue lights are not going to be on the front of the fire truck when somebody sees a fire truck or an ambulance and they're review mehr they're not gonna see blue lights I think they're getting pulled over by a firetruck one they should move to the right anyway because that's the law move to the right for sirens and lights so there shouldn't be any confusion when they do see red lights are red lights and then what passes them as a fire truck there's not gonna socio eight any other color of light with fire trucks other than the lights that they see on the very large apparatus as passing them. the other issue that we've talked about is On the interstate and and patrol cars you know still getting hit in traffic one when a fire truck parks to block a scene we're not just blocking the the immediate lane at that scene is and if it's on the shoulder blocking the shoulder in there we're taking another line if it's a multi lane highway were probably taking that other line as well so that a motor vehicle of a motorist if they're driving distracted leader in attentively They have no choice but to get over and if we have something on our apparatus that when we're talking about the height of the fire truck compared to a a patrol car you're looking around nine ten eleven feet that is considerably taller and so now you've taken the blue light what is most effective for them for for visibility and you've taken what is most effective for us visibility are size and you combine the two you essentially have a blue light on what is about the height of the basketball goal it's only on the rear of the structure now there and if the you know our brothers in law enforcement wanted some kind of compromise where its only activated when the parking brake is activated it stopped on an interstate on a seen something like that that's that is rational that is reasonable as far as you know the concern for safety on on a on a scene that is you know the security that scene is questionable we have a master switch on everything that controls all the likes we can control we can turn off any like that we want to so if it's tied to only on you know interstate scenes or vehicle accidents on the freeway or something like that and we don't have to have those lights at a you know a a questionably safe scene Outside of that I think that's it and the and we know we brought up the point that you know of a fire apparatuses around a million dollars in excess of and sometimes and it takes at least now it takes at least a year and a half to two years to replace we want to avoid that at any cost but beyond that it's the people working within that scene your firefighters or police officers or employees and then the citizens that we're there to service and safety were also worked for because they cannot be replaced at the end of the day I think I think everybody in here at the end of their shift just want to go home to their family and if this is something that we can do that can help increasing safety I understand the concern about the slippery slope but if any of the other groups that are directly involved the public safety such as you know tow truck driver show up and they will blue lights will stand right beside our brothers in law enforcement and fight against that you know that that's what we are we are definitely opposed to it anything beyond that so I would say it's not really a slippery slope so much as is it's just it's progress the name of public safety thank you thank you any questions committee. Thank you for testimony thanks Sir all right no one else testify represent leading would you like to close. Yes thank you Mr chairman all I'll do my best to be brief you. Skewed Mr Teo. Thank you again. You're your guess your testimonies with. DO put push again. Okay I'm assuming that was accident you're okay. We'll Mr chairman and committee you know I I I appreciate all testimony it's great the one thing I really appreciates when they call each other brothers. I also want to commend the police chiefs assure us and the fire chiefs that are here for their long service many of them are you know been in the business for twenty or thirty years they know a lot and and I really appreciate their service to our state or cities or counties. Let me just try to answer a couple of things that were brought up It was mentioned about the fire fighting apparatus that pumps water in that limit some of the other vehicles that originally in the bill said fire trucks and one individual I talked to said will fire trucks could mean a pickup truck. And he was absolutely right so we went back and scratch their head and try to figure out how can we explain that is just a fire engine and that's the best description we can come up with was firefighting apparatus that pumps water so that's the purpose that it wasn't to cut out of their vehicles we just wanted to make it as tight as we could because I believe it needs to be. if you pass this bill. You won't really change the Texas law in the issues that we're having from taxes that won't change so this that doesn't really affect or all those things those issues will still be there. again. I implore you to please. Don't make your decision based on things that happen way in the past or things that may happen in the future base it on what we're looking at today the fax that you been presented it look at the studies look at the facts that are out there So it was brought up the last session we had a bill that would allow blue lights on wreckers and fire trucks and so forth I would remind you that we defeated that bill. And I think we would defeated again so I don't see that as a slippery slope this body's already defeated that bill once. Another issue that we haven't brought up really was these out of state trucks that small fire departments purchase from all the surrounding states they can't buy new trucks I think the Chief of Johnson mentioned that that they they have to buy a used truck sometimes a small towns the all those trucks and blue lights on. So they have to take those off they have to replace them with red it's it's a major expense for some of the small towns like Johnson. So it's nothing we need to consider when everybody else is going this way because of the sciences in the report that you're looking at they're they're doing this so it's an expense for a small fire departments It was mentioned the others a number of police injuries and how these when they had their blue lights on and and that's a terrible thing and I I want to do whatever I can to reduce that but the science says that they would be safer if they had blue and red lights. So I would be happy to run a bill for the police if they want to do that it makes it safer for them is not unlimited all of its how these all the accidents but it is one thing that reduces the risk. You know I did this in another line for twenty thirty years you reduce the risk for every you can. the other thing one last thing Mr chairman up this is not really about the fire department or the police department or the ambulance it's about all of these we need to do whatever we can to make it safer for all of these groups. and I appreciate the feeling of both sides of this issue but it's for everybody it's not a fire verses a police issue let's do whatever we can to make all of our first responders as safe as we can Mr chairman I'll close with that okay thank you representative We've heard a lot of testimony day what is will of committee. I have a motion do pass by representative Hodges discussion. All in favor say aye. All posts a a. That has had the. Read to a all right let me ask you to me as it is if you this. All those in favor of the motion say aye. All opposed say no no no okay I think it's rather obvious I'm sorry about the confusion any other. Okay thank you for your. Any other business come thank you committee today. Okay thank you we stand adjourned.