State Agencies & Govt'l Affairs- House

But now its mission by before we get started in case there's anyone here in attendance that it's Here here Senate bill seventy one I move that bill to the deferred list and it will not be heard and to sponsor that bill decides to pull it off for him notify myself for the staff and then we'll be placed back on the agenda but today we're moving that to deferred also. Question. What what's the rules on the fireman had to set for one meetings of the committee has to have notice as well or just a chair the question is what's the rules on the deferred on the rule on the far wants to go to the deferred list for it to come off the deferred list to sponsor hatch notify myself or of my analyst here at within two days. Two days notice and they give me a two days notice then we put it back on the agenda. Other questions in regards to that. It It. Also if you to the only bill will probably going to have time to here today And we called a special order for Senate bill two fifty and that the we have fourteen people signed up to speak on this bill so I don't really think we're going to have time to hear any other bills in today's meeting and like I said we did call a special order just to hear Senate bill two fifty of so with that said. Let's go ahead and get started and I believe the sponsor Senate bill two fifty is. Here in Rome Senator Hammer. If you would just devastated ten to the table. And if you're here and you want to speak for against Senate bill. The representative Richmond you have a question. I'd like to make a motion. The motion I like to make a motion that we table S. B. seventy one the Committee. Okay that is a non debatable so your motion is to lay on the table should put it on the deferred list is that set proper motion you're making that is correct okay like I said as non debatable all in favor that motion say aye aye All opposed say no. The motion has passed that to us. Senate bill seventy one will be laid on the table. Any further questions or comments before we get started Senate bill two fifty. Say none Senator Hammer also if you're in the audience you want to speak for against Senate bill two fifty be sure to sign up sign up sheet is just outside the room of I think we've got a list here if you've already signed up I have that but if you haven't probably make you way out and signed up will pick the list up here in a minute make sure you get recognized so with that said senator Hammer you're recognized. To present Senate bill two fifty thank you Mr chairman thank you committee members Kim Hammer state senator district sixteen. The bill before your senate bill two fifty does the following things is established that each paper ballot is to be compatible with electronic voting tabulation device selected by the secretary of state that's on page one line thirty four thirty five if council chooses to use paper about some place of the voting machines that has been approved by secretary of state which is Page one line thirty four through thirty five and county is responsible for the cost including replacement paper ballots and machines to tabulate those replacement paper ballots such Page one line thirty six three page two line three council chooses to leave the current system then the responsibility for compliance of all laws was placed on the County Board of election commissioners page two lines four through nine and of the council uses paper ballots that are going to be hand counted the requirements outlined section two and three of the bill the required time frames for when the hand count is to be completed are addressed in sections four five and emergency clauses added so that the council chooses to leave the current paper ballot system and go to a different format than adequate time is allowed to establish adequate guidelines requirements and I'll be glad to answer any questions Mister chairman. Any questions from committee members. Saying none. Representative of senator Hammer we got several people signed up to speak on this bill so up you would just make room for them at the end of the table and Master question Mr yes. As testimony is given either for or against if there are questions that need to be answered will not be allowed to call someone either with the Secretary of State or so station counties or state board of elections to respond to those questions of fast yes you will thank you Sir. The speakers signed up to speak against the bill is Donnie Scroggins. Shrugged. We just have stayed in the table data values up to the committee once you've done that you're recognized give testimony. I'm not a Scroggins Poinsett county of want to thank the chair and also the committee for the time here today try to be as brief as possible but very process any reasonable person that reads Senate bill two fifty. Which is a monster twenty five election bills before this legislative body. Includes is nothing but an effort to throttle or kill paper ballots in counties we know by state law that a county quorum court can vote to go to paper and when I first read that the. Quickly knew right then it was just never to kill paper ballots Senate bill two fifty of Senator Hammer dis outlined some of it I've got three points you don't pay for elections if you go to go paper in other words if your paper council vote go that way we're taking money from me is so to me that's creating to to vote sets a voter's machines and paper people I could probably see litigation on that one. Also it's forcing the use of the the S. two hundred scanners are tabulators aim of the county says Hey we want to go secure ballot hand count these things you still got to run through that the S. two hundred for those preliminary numbers and then you're allowed to hand count those things they give you twenty four hours that's the third point is the time frame I don't think they throttle machine counties that way don't understand why they do this. Then I know I want to stipulate today that I know the AC. Municipally and others are in opposition to this bill. don't know why it. I go out on the street and everybody I talked to that the citizen these people here I don't trust machines I wanna go to paper. And but when you look at two fifty I'll just put a stop to that. The. Per se Senator Hammer being able to answer questions of percentage expertise but in a speech he gave to saline county GOP committee about a week ago last Thursday these ask about. His email so how many emails is beginning excluding the outside what cold outside of the State emails and text the status sixty percent if I remember correctly from the video he might wanna correct me sixty percent of those responses from citizens of Arkansas were for paper ballots forty percent against I know if you run a campaign you win sixty to forty S. call landslide. The so really I don't know why six SP two fifties being pushed hard at least twenty five bills that the legislature Sam twenty four awesome but this one this seems to be the the hanging knew some out understand it I do know by talking to the people on the streets is not a scientific thing but. I'm saying it's looking like it's building up to be the populace verses the machines and that that's the only way I can can take this battle now I can. Top the technicalities of the the election integrity stuff minister three years full time don't get paid for start in may of twenty twenty the the coast sos people anyway I'm in opposition to this bill is to sample any reasonable person it raises bill Knowles it's there to kill paper ballots so I appreciate your time. Thank you Mr Corgan pre testimony any any questions from committee members. Say none prejudgment here next signed up to speak against the bill is Mr Fleming planning and. I'm sorry. Staff say they're the table. Okay Bambi with that is to have a state. Do I have to say my name said Flannery I represent the liberty coalition of concerned citizens and we stand opposed to this bill because I am your little far away from the might while standing so that it doesn't it doesn't five three machines and paper the same. The tabulator has to accept sick care hi tech paper then Mr secretary of state Mr Thurston can choose any tabulator he wants as long as it accepts that kind of paper we don't want to be caught in an election with the tabulator not taking the paper. I. eight also believe that any costs borne by the state for the machines like the maintenance of the machines the contracts we have with the SNS that those same costs any costs associated with paper must also be borne by the state you have to treat them equally paper and machines I've been doing election integrity work for ten to fifteen years first in California and then here The people. Resigned up resoundingly every poll they don't trust the machines. What the people don't trust they're not going to use and they're going to stop voting. I'm in the gas station and I'm hearing people say I don't trust the machines I think they injured votes. I I'm just over hearing conversations you must over here them you must have people talking to you. So people think they're legislators are no longer listening to them that they're only listening to lobbyists. So I hope that you're going to hear me today and that you're really will listen in here I went door to door in hot springs village with the most recent copy of the voter rolls I did that to prove that those voter rolls or clean because I believe that they were. The first for homes I went to of five. We're wrong I was stunned. I have done the rest of the village as well but those first four really got me one two three four right in a row we need clean elections which mean clean voter rolls which means policies and procedures that have to be followed have to be followed by every county to make those roles clean. When you're going to write election integrity Laws you need to invite the election integrity community to help you because they have the expertise. They're the ones with the expertise they're the ones it says that the election voter nightly the interface is going to notify the secretary of state of the results well that interface goes directly to clarity. And clarity sends it to another company which puts it on the news channels and it's clarity that notifies. That notifies the secretary of state. And so that's how he gets notified he told me that himself on February twenty seven and anywhere along that track anywhere. It can be hacked it's fact we've done it with high school students that take five to fifteen minutes to do it. So I want you to scrap this bill I want you to go to the election integrity community and they'll tell you how to write it so that the people will buy it they're not going to buy this bill they're going to not vote. Thank you. Questions from committee members. Say no ma'am thank you for your testimony next signed up is Scott gray. Thank you just a bit about yourself to the committee and I understand you're speaking against the bill and once you've identified yourself you're recognized for your testimony thank you I'm Scott gray with the sling County Republican committee the best form of government is local control as Republicans we believe in keeping government as close to the people as possible no matter how you slice it SB two fifty as written effectively removes all existing power from the counties and puts it into the hands of bureaucrats further F. B. two fifty leaves several unanswered questions the rules of which will ultimately be determined by the appointed state board of election commissioners. We have seventy five counties in Arkansas in each might have a different perspective on paper ballots versus voting computers individual county should be able to decide what kind of ballots they use in those who choose to employee paper ballots whether for security or simply for ease of use should not be financially penalized for it it would have been very simple to amend this bill to reimburse counties the same approximate eleven cents per ballot whether they're using secure water marked and numbered paper ballots or they're using machine marked ballots without this amendment conservatives are rightly suspicious of the unfair and inconsistent treatment of counties which might choose to employee paper ballots. Thank you. Questions for Mr gray from committee members say not much great thank you for your testimony sign up next speak against the bill is Allison gray. If you would just database up to the committee once you've done that you're recognized to be testimony. My name is Allison gray and I oppose SB two fifty our election should be in the hands of our locally elected officials not government bureaucrats I find it necessary that we have strong election integrity in this state without free fair and secure elections we have nothing we definitely don't have a constitutional Republic we I feel that we should not trust unknown software foldable machines and third party vendors individual council should not be reprimanded for doing was in the best interest of their county constituents. SB two fifty especially burns small counties that might choose to implement secure paper ballots in order to save time and money in small elections because it requires a machine count it also financially penalizes council says which to secure paper ballots by removing the site substituting for their balance as this bill as written County shooting secure paper ballots would be expected to cover their own costs for counties with concerning computers will continue to be reimbursed by the state I find this unfair as many other constituents to. Even if elections are currently being stored in Arkansas we should do everything we can to prevent elections that from taking place in the future in summary the future of this nation and state depends upon truly secure elections so I urge all of you to vote against this atrocious bill. Any questions from committee members. Same numbers okay thank you for your testimony. Signed up to speak against the bill is lance labor. Correction signed up to speak against the bill Jennifer Lancaster. Sure if you would just state your name for the committee and then you're recognized give you testimony. Thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today my name is Jennifer Lancaster and I represent the same county Republican women I agree with what the individuals who spoke before me said so I will keep it brief but I do want to point out that recent polls have shown that less than twenty percent of Americans are very confident in our elections so what we're seeing is that the increase as the increase of machines as a thing more at that wider use of machines within our elections we're seeing voter confidence decrease so clearly the answer is not the use of machines and so I just ask you to allow the genius of the American system to work our founders set up a decentralized form of government which will allow local government to decide what is best for them based on what they're people deem appropriate as I just ask that you scrap that's B. two fifty as it is written or amended to give the power back to the people because while this does not completely prevent people the counties from using paper it certainly puts hurdles that that make it very difficult so that I with that I will close and I'll take any questions any questions from committee members. Say none ma'am thank you for your testimony here. Signed up next speak against the bill is Laura. Bamileke. February just age nine to the committee and then you're recognized give you testimony my name is alarm randomly and I'm against bill SB two fifty. I was the Federal Aviation Administration IT security manager for over two hundred and fifty systems in Oklahoma City where they train all the air traffic controllers we also supported my my team supported cert cert DOT systems for financial the entire FAA and we were up. Provider who provided financial services for the entire government as well as IT security services I supported over two hundred and fifty systems I know that in the system can be hacked any machine can be hacked and the interface can be hacked and that's why we do I. T. security certifications every year. we in fact had OPM hacked and the FAA had to buy insurance for all employees because all the records were put out there for anyone who wanted access their background security their financial security information so I know machines can be hacked. I have six reasons that these machines must go there's no transparency there's no accountability there's no way to track accuracy the software is vulnerable the hardware is vulnerable and the networks are vulnerable the facts are that ninety three percent of voters do not look at their completed printed ballots to catch mistakes. Voters all over the county complain of machines flipping votes we saw this when we watch the news during the twenty twenty election votes were being flipped from one candidate to another our voting process is run by a set organization and its proprietary we don't know who the owners are we don't have access to the machines eighty percent of Americans do not trust the current election system the bar codes can't can hide secret information. And the tabulators don't read text they read bar code information when those votes are printed out for a voter to look at who their candidates are before they process it to be counted there is no guarantee that what they see is translated into what is tabulated put the bar codes I'm against this bill I think there needs to be more discussion on it it needs to be tabled for amended so that the people have the authority in their own counties to choose what they want to do to ensure voter integrity and they are not penalized for it. Any questions any questions from committee members. Saying none ma'am thank you for your testimony. Signed up to speak against the bill is cat Sampson. Thank you would you state your name to the committee and you're recognized give you testimony. My name is Ken Sampson and I live in garland county. I have been suit those citizen of the United States and so of nineteen ninety three and came here in nineteen seventy six I come from France. And the and lived to twenty twenty one years in Arizona which is being at a red state mainly and heavily and until twenty twenty we voted with printed ballot ballots and After twenty twenty others said nares on I became a blue state. Then a I sold my house right away as a you know Arizona is going to become like California. And I looked at the map and the acid I'm going to Arkansas that's a red state unfortunately I didn't check in two years ago when I voted. I still machines. And I said well can I have a ballot in this state no. And so like everybody's saying here. Nobody tries to the machines and that's to prove right that in France we have forty eight million people registered to vote. And it's helped balance is so paper ballots the the voted last year by ten o'clock at night on the same day The New who won the election and nobody complained about it and nobody's is cheating all my family lives down and said I wasn't I was in the very up the happy with the outcome says it did the cheat and the Senate they can't is paper ballot in a county by hand. And so in Arkansas we have a deal over three million people and it says that fifty one percent of the people here are out of registered to vote so I would say maybe at the most a million and a half have to be candid in this state I don't think that's very many compared to forty eight million. So my question to everybody is why Arkansas cannot can't a million or a little bit more than a million ballots what is a reason for wanting to change that and my third question is did I make a mistake is France better than United States now because I thought I came to the best country in the world. So I have to say. Any questions from committee members say none ma'am. Thank you for your testimony. Signed up to speak against the bill is Conrad rentals. Rental just have say ten table dinner by yourself you're recognized the testimony. Great. My name's Carl Conrad road the CEO of the Arkansas border integrity initiative you may know that we set out on a journey starting it several months ago back in July and August to find out what was going on with that actions in how can we make it better of the machines ladies and gentleman have to go at some point we must get rid of the machines here in Arkansas that's just a fact that we can continue to continue to have machines for components if we work that but it's convenience over what transparency accuracy and accountability that's what we have here in Arkansas the name of the we use paper ballots left and right machine gives you was not a paper ballot folks that's a lot it is a receipt that's all that is it's not of the ballot is on the touch screen not the piece of paper that it's printed out I ask you that because I've used I've I've talked to face a lot about being called names I've been called just about everything you can I'm a combat veteran spent thirty years protecting this country from the founder of the Arkansas military. Thank you I don't appreciate being called names but you know what that's part of the territory we try to fight for the of the system House countries that have systems like we have now become countries we must have a secret paper ballot to be counted that could be counted what. Counted by hand if you don't yes this means if you think about the company if you don't express is. The. Does how it functions if you don't know that it. Sense of our voting system you should this bill this is to be killed right here today I'm a common sense. And as patriotic patriotism is an American that's why I'm sitting here I guess I'm asking for a transparent system. Thank. I did a bit counted. Barcode view. The answer is no. No idea what it says and you just have to trust. It I'm asking you to come in this coming Saturday if you were in actual experts what exactly are committee but what's inside. Section how they work. We will come to. The eighteenth and find out exactly what you need. Come back and vote. Now it's not. I just asked if you will I think it was in response to the mansion. Common sense please don't vote for this bill wait income and listen experts will come back and make a decision we're not talking about the paper ballot fifty years ago that's ridiculous and that is something that really. In the book fifty years ago keyless we're not talking about that at all that's. Correct. To have a machine to help. To do it. To do it our friends our neighbors counted ballots it's not that hard to do and the last thing we also are not allowed. If we can't see the service call Mr Terry. Exactly how we can help each. That ask yourself why. I'm not sure. That's the one thing that we could. Senate if there is any malfeasance. Thank you very much for time off to any questions and questions from committee members say none thank you very much this morning. Signed up to speak against the bill is a surgeon Anderson. Xander Senator road you state your name to the committee noon you're recognized you give your testimony yeah hi I'm Susan Anderson I'm new at this the first time I'm from The Village selling County and I'm a retired or in working in the operating room I've been exposed to computers when they first went into the medical facilities where things would freeze and crash but then also the benefits a computer so I recognize that I acknowledge that and and especially for security of five patients personal information I've also been told many times that are per our information cannot be compromised or hacked but I I have since found that that it's been proven wrong I have also talked and listened to a committee advanced high tech people that say computers can't be compromised or hacked I just due to due to the nature of the machines they were made or are made by man and they can be hacked and controlled by man. as we with that do we have in advance of a computer science engineer that has the forensic knowledge and intellect to give us assurances that cyber is secure and that these machines are secure from the many algorithms that can find their way into the electronic voting machines networks and processing across this state and country from Saudi individuals that are are running and controlling these or of elections with the ripple effects that we've seen and happened in in multiple states like Arizona Wisconsin Michigan Pennsylvania and Georgia so um. Wanting to go ahead and verify that we have our actual final votes and tallies and documentations on the final count as we have Oded. I also want to say as citizens of this country we have to wake up we have to we need to wake up we are all Americans and we have had twelve to thirteen generations fight and die for our freedoms and liberty in this in our country we have a responsibility to care for what we have been given. which I can only imagine that there are people there or whatever that are waiting to go ahead and enter our state so I'm just really concerned I hope you postpone this bill and will be opened to what we are saying thank you. Session from committee members. Say no ma'am thank you very testimony. Signed up to speak against the bill is Clint Lancaster sterling cash you would just have see them tabled in a patient's Committee you're recognized the testimony. Thank you hi I'm Clint Lancaster I I have done a significant amount of election integrity investigation across the United States and that includes against the SNS machines I could tell you all day why yes in this machines are bad but instead I'd like to tell you why this bill is bad and I have known Senator Hammer for at least ten or eleven years now I have known him he's from selling County I'm from selling County I've even been on his radio show like two or three times talking about election integrity issues. However the problem is is that all these people have there are problems with the machines and that's why this legislature has allowed a county to choose to go to paper to not use the machine and some counties are are wanting to do that but feel that they're hesitant to do it because they're afraid this bill is designed to punish them. I think they might be right I think this bill says that if you use paper ballots you don't get reimbursement from the state for your primary elections that's one interpretation I talked to one county Clerk who didn't like the idea that she had to run these ballots through the tabulator first if she had a school board election in Lee County Arkansas and every bit of twenty people came out to vote she can no longer use paper ballots or count those by hands as a primary method. There are there are a. It's in our constitution that the about the right to vote in nowhere in there does it say that that right to vote is limited to a machine I'll tell you that I have done extensive research in the SNS you can't take one screw off the back of that machine to look at it without voiding the warranty you can't use the machine again they say there's no modem in there but in Green Bay Wisconsin when I represented the special counsel there were modems in all the machines in Green Bay the same machines we're using here in Arkansas yes an S. doesn't deny that these machines are modem capable they're just telling you there's not one in their. And then they're telling you you can't look. If I you also someone talked about hackers I worked with the former deputy director of the NSA on how these machines can be hacked. It's possible it is very possible for these machines to have a modem on them that activates at two AM transmits and receives data and shuts itself off again by two oh five and if you don't think that's possible think about how your computer runs an update overnight while you've been sleeping this bill is bad and into the nice lady from France this still is the greatest country because we get to come here and speak to our legislators about what we want and what we think is bad what we think is good so there's a lot of opposition to SB two fifty I have personally spoken with senator Hammer I've suppose personally spoken with a representative wing I personally spoke representative long I don't believe that their intent is ill I just don't believe that they have. The entire perspective of everyone in the state and that's what this bill would do is it would affect everybody in the state and yes I did but I did proposed changes to SB two fifty and I even wrote those and gave them to representative long. That's all I have I would ask that you. Okay Jill this billing committee any questions from committee members. Saying none Mr Lankesh thank for testimony thank you Mr chair. Signed up to speak against the bill is Betty Westmore a. Yes Betty Westmoreland is that correct yes thank you. Would you state your name for the committee then you're recognized to be testimony my name is Betty Westmoreland I'm from garland county and I appreciate the time this this afternoon that you've given us and you not come to this table and I I have learned a lot just listening to my fellow are our Kansans and I'm wondering if I'm hoping that you the legislatures also listening and I'm kind of amazed that there's not been any questions actually because I just think there's things that are on answered in fact I know there are not and you know we each come in our life from a profession most of us do I'm a retired special ed teacher and also done a lot of missionary work in Ben and over forty nations in this world not not just doing the missionary work but I've been in nations where I've been in communist nations nations where I was told don't come this year in Kenya because it's very dangerous the tribes Roberts up and kill each other and that's a fact and all I've seen on some of the Berlin Wall when I was nineteen years old went right through checkpoint Charlie but I'm just saying all this because we have like was just pointed out by Clint last plan caster in my friend from France we do have the greatest nation in the world and yet the bottom the basic thing is that we we the people we the people should vote thank you the legislature's listen to what we say and represent us in and I'm not telling you anything you don't know and but I as I said we all come from a profession but I wonder if any legislatures have a profession of the software engineering or hardware engineering or cyber experts and I I don't think they do but maybe there is one but if if that's not your profession is certainly not mind. And I want to go to that expired I can involve offer expertise information on working with very troubled children because I did that for almost thirty years but I can't give the other information is very needed in this particular case and I agree with so many things that have been say in fact probably everything that's been said and I'm desperate I mean seriously against this bill in my last point is that. A voter integrity Stands in a category all its own it is not equal to convenience our rapid reporting on at election night it stands in a in a category all its own and for the in that category requires that the election in Terry that the people the American people trust that voting process and that state's that should be taken first and then we work on convenience and speed and bring in technology whatever those things which are good things but that's all I would want to say an hour just to make it clear I think you know by now I'm against this bill and I would like to see it just killed right now thank you very much thank you ma'am any questions from committee members. Saying none thank for testimony signed up next week against the bill is cat the. Merry Monday. Member station named Committee you're recognized maybe testimony Kathleen they're my design from Garland County I just have one question. On several of these bills on here it says and to declare emergency and several people that's what you mean by that. What does it mean. On this bill. Why is that an emergency why is it what what what what would be considered an emergency. For several of these bills. Ma'am you're you're just a you need to give your testimony. Can I ask questions to the committee members that you're allowed to keep your testimony. You're recognized that I agree with what what has been said wholeheartedly I'm against it and especially after hearing so much and I'm also amazed that nobody seems to have any questions as Betty S. mention. Thank you. Sign up next week against the bill is Tracy Leonard. Ma'am within about a ship to the committee hi am Tracey Leonard from Garland County I move to Arkansas about five years ago from western New York Voting in western New York I felt like I never had a voice because the people living in New York City basically had control. and then I found myself in a court room of a local town court and realized the injustice that was going on there. And I have a passion against injustice I'm I'm speaking for as a person. A representative of this country. Just as an American citizen I didn't plan any any our speech for you I'm just a normal person speaking my passion and when I saw the injustices of a local court and then I watched all the evidence of our presidential election against the fraudulence of what was going on and it it and got thrown out in the Supreme Court I was blown away at the injustice and basically it all boils down to the root of all evil and the money is the power and this is a disgusting to me and I came to Arkansas and I fell in love with the state the people here I feel like I have more of a voice here to speak they're real and. I just I just pray that. These people will. Not look at the money that's powering over them but the justice and let the people. B. have have justice you know what's going on in in this in this balance in these courtrooms and. We need we need the I. representatives to stand up and fight for the people we need it we're losing our country and if we don't have this paper ballots I'm feeling like my voice isn't even going to be heard why should I even go and vote because I don't feel like it's worth anything I think we're going to lose the votes of the people that matter. And it'll all be worth less and it's all going down hill from there. Any questions from committee members say no ma'am thank you for your testimony the last verse we have signed up to speak against the bill isn't jim Leonard. Salinity would just have say ten table again face of committing you're recognized you testimony. Hi my name is jim letter I am twenty five year veteran retired in the twenty five year department of defense federal firefighter so. What I can say is is I got two big groups of people in all of them are against this bill. You're taking away the power of the people. When you leave so much on the table now all my years twenty five years four separate times was my record. Compromised by somebody on a computer. When you get some from the state department telling you that your beer your your information was compromised and they're putting you in this program free of charge to protect your data like again because the first time it happened it was like oh no and then it was like again and then again then again if you think that these. Tabulating machines. Can't be compromised you're highly mistaken if if the federal government cannot keep their computer systems from being compromised. How do you expect all these little places to. It's pretty hard to compromise a piece of paper. That's all I got a second. Any questions se none thank commissioner. Senator Hammer. No one else signed up to speak for against the bill senator Graham you're recognized. Did you have someone you want to bring them to the table with the. Per share only if the committee has questions or been several things have been stated I'll defer to the chair with an upper Committee like calling but from secretary of state the state board of elections or so station counties. Representative makes. Well not represent our first should make Senator Hammer I'd be interested in hearing from the secretary of state there's an allegation made that the machines are potentially have modems Adam and we've been assured that modems are not in any of the machines and if there's no modem there's no hacking or anything else is going to take place so I just be curious if the US secretary of state can come and verify that that is factual and that they have verified that there truly are no modems in any of these machines. Perjury would you state your name to the committee. Leslie Bellamy I'm the director of elections for Arkansas secretary of state representative makes their of were questions that the Secretary us first and have twenty come on board and that's one of the things he did was he had the vendor come and open the machines up to show him that there was no modem he actually had several staff members there are deputy secretaries were there are chiefs us secretary of state was there almost every director was present at that meeting as well. Follow up. If it is a representative Bentley you're recognized for a question. Thank you chairman thank you all for being here today this is just to verify thank you for coming to the table so if one of our counties or are voting precinct wanted to verify the votes in their tablet or the ones that have been terribly could they hand count those paper ballots that were printed out that we currently have to verify the votes that would have waited you know the printer that we get with the and I understand the question yes ma'am actually the verify those that we have now if we chose if a county chose to yes representative Bentley they there's some county Clerk here today and they have all the freedom to hand counted anytime they can hand count the paper ballots express cards or they can hand count if they chose to go to the op that a digital scan ballots they could hand counted anytime there's nothing the statute that disallows that they in fact there is a statute already on the books in Arkansas that encourages the on a two count that back there paperless back to their electronic tabulations the ballots are maintained in the counties of position the tabulation results are maintained in the the county physician and the county tabulators or maintain their no never connected to the internet. Thank you chairman. Representative Becky representative back you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr so that just John so you're saying that right now that if I wanted to go. And that maybe they this state are being destroyed or whatever but but right now if I want to go back and look what a machine tabulated. And I would have those ballots that tabulated my office so I could do a blind count between the two to see if they're both with the same right now. For right now they've actually been certified so the records would have to begin sealed by a court order at this time since it's already been certified but yes counties could do that after every election it even back when we were on paper ballots were counted off this game balance when I started in nineteen ninety five and those are counted by machine and we've done recounts on those as well as state borders and multiple recounts to audit and then counties have done recounts that have come out to the Max what the express vote in the absentee counted on the DS two hundred has come out to be thank you. The questions from committee members representive guys really recognized. Thank you Mr chairman so I guess that really is my question is what are the quality control measures that you guys use maybe after the fact if it requires a court order after election because those voters or that is best after it's been certified but what exactly has been done in terms of quality assurance to ensure that the votes are matching of what's been tabulated. The local County Board of election commissioners or in charge of what's turned into the secretary of state's office so they match what is being tabulated locally to what to uploaded to our election not reporting and if they have any changes in that time since the first not as preliminary results they check back to that and like I said it that's under local control right now if they want to recount or hand count the hand battered hand count all the ballots that were counted electronically they can do so they stepped they keep all the ballots for the fifteen days of the election still open. Follows but how often is that kind of again quality control occurring after the fact because surely there's some type of assessment to ensure that there is you know these things are matching. The logic and accuracy test them beforehand so it the every county is entitled to do that or not entitle they're required to do that so they take the test the elections beforehand state board there is an assessment which actually senator Hammer and some of the others have you know help the state board to increase those audits and then recounts were done periodically just a request so those have always been matching point is being hand counted after the fact if the candidate ask for that and I have great confidence in our counties and what how they perform and how they want to perform and I think that everyone sitting here today was duly elected because I think Arkansas has good fair elections and I think that if a county chooses to to go back and hand count that stuff then I I think it's a good thing it's their own internal audit we don't discourage that at all. Mr chairman may I add on to that. Add on yes your. I have a copy it's a resolution expressing support for the slain County Election Commission exercise their full range of authority regarding election integrity one of the things assesses Lee County court records extremely proud of the sling county as a stellar reputation of election integrity wants to ensure that it remains true it goes on it says that the selling County Election Commission is authorized pursuant to Arkansas Code to conduct a recount on its own motion of the returns of any or all precincts without requests from candidates and slang county quorum court pledges full support including financial if necessary for the slaying County Election Commission conducting recounts as contemplated to ensure public confidence in Slane county elections this was issued by our sling county quorum court the emphasize encouraging that if there's a question that the that the State Board of Election K. would be able to go back and recount if there's a question I would also add that as of recently and Daniel's here if anybody wants to get his testimony to attest to this that they are currently conducting audits now and of the fourteen thousand three hundred forty one votes that they went into a recount in multiple counties they are at this time a hundred percent accurate having matched up against the tabulators so as far as evidence of the security I think it's there and that we have a hundred percent vote for voters what was recorded. Representative Gonzalez you're recognized for a question. I want to ask questions association of counties of the appropriate time. No se. Someone here from the Social Asian counties. The database up to the committee and then representative Gonzalez you're recognized measure question thing Mr. My name is Lindsay French with the association of Arkansas counties it was stated earlier that that there are some counties who were wanting to go back or or at least considering going back to paper ballots that have government approach by any counties that are considering that and if so how many. the only two counties that I am aware of was Cleburne County who did pass a resolution to go to all paper for my communications with them it was done kind of hastily and after it was done they realize that maybe they weren't fully aware of what they were done they met last Thursday to repeal the resolution the only other county and was Salim and of the effort failed there I don't think it ever got a sponsor. To go over all paper ballots no other counties have reached out to me wanting to fill a paper. All of the server to be clear as it was an effort by the county Clerk says this was may be brought up by by JP or something that. Proposed resolution as a is that what you're telling me. I think some J. peas were were lobbied by some folks to go to all paper who don't trust the machines and they sponsored a J. P. sponsored a resolution to go all paperless in Cleburne County and then that resolution was repealed last Thursday okay all right thank you. Representative Richmond you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair this questions for the secretary of state rep and it's you you referred to the required checks that has to be performed could you tell me exactly what are the actually checking when they go through that process so the logic and accuracy test has been in place ever since we went to the DR eighties when they outlawed paper ballots I think it was in two thousand five the first time we use those in Arkansas and that required that you check what they call a test deck in all on at that time it's pretty much the same as it is right now you have a set number of ballots that are planted in those have the result that you know what the results should be in your test that before the election before early voting that protest can also be public the public can go watch that test and those are dentist insurer before each election that they're calibrated correctly and working correctly before the election starts. Follow up you're recognized thank you ma'am so if somebody if the election begins and somebody is left off the ballot. What causes that. Generally that's a proofreading error up and I'd hate to say this but on the county election boards part generally there who review the ballots after it comes back from the coders there are five counties that code their own elections so that could be the coders fault in that instance but they're ultimately the County Board of election commissioners are responsible for proofreading. Thank you ma'am thank you Mr. In a public representative Gazaway recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair so we talk about the coding in the logic test I mean I understand there was some concern that whether or not the voting machines can be connected to the internet with a modem it seems pretty clear that that's unlikely but what about the actual logic in code and programming of the machines themselves that there were some could there be some kind of tampering with that I mean these are the you know the types of allegations that we hear. What what it would have to say so many checks in Arkansas and I think Arkansas does a great job and I'm all for making it even more secure and I've spent twenty eight years of my life making sure they're secure but I think the one thing that there so many checks that the counties have the actual paper ballots they check back to our website they check the coding beforehand to make sure it counts properly county clerks are involved in that testing sometimes for early voting especially since the custodian of that and that's a lot of times were errors or Ark caught but I have yet to see anything that's not a human error and that's and like I said over twenty eight years and I covid elections required council for sixteen and I made human errors at times and I think that's what we're dealing with it most of the errors would be a human error if there is anything wrong on the ballots now I think that one of the strong things Arkansas does is in the last session the legislators made a good decision to not allow any of the equipment to be connected to the internet so the DS two hundred you're not connected the express boats are only a marker anyway they're never connected to anything and then the actual tabulation computers are locked down to where they're not able to be connected to the internet so it would be very difficult to to hack into that if there if there was I had to say and I've said this to technology committees and an otherwise it would probably be for the transfer from the county the results to the state and then the county would catch that because they have the actual physical results still at the county. Witcher's. Which I'd like to add on to that new practice together joint public do you have a follow up. I did yes the Bill Clinton hammered you wanna finish to comment on his first question I can be that I can be called into question by Daniel he could come and check it for of Leslie can checked me on it but the one thing we need to remember is that when the county. Takes the vote and they send it to the Secretary of State if there's a question of something's happened between where the secretary state has that final information and what is reported secretary of state there are checks and balances so you know some would serve some would subscribe to the theory that it goes up through Nebraska or some other place and that the materials height or the voter hijacked in that process the problem with that theory is is that our county Clerk is able to see the number that was sent and if it deviates from what's recorded the Secretary of State they're county Clerk is able to catch it at that point and that's just part of the multiple checks and balances are built into our voting system to make sure we have good election integrity. You need to follow up yes you're recognized so I'm a little less concerned about. The tabulation and how it makes it from one place to another than I am the coating I mean it sounds like you used to do the coding. where you were located I mean do we just let anyone code these machines and how they're going to record a vote I mean how at what again what safety protocols and standards do we have in that regard so the County Board of election commissioners they put the data into the vendor which is a yes of the us to code the elections they're all training coders will most of them that we worked with since two thousand and five the net lease for probably five to ten years we've worked with most of these coders and we talk to them on occasion for a county and then like I said there's five counties that go through of an very intense training because of their own elections sibling county used to be one White County is one Pulaski and that's an option that the county pays for themselves if they want to code their own elections they pay for the software they pay for the maintenance and those are the ones that like I said they go through a very intense training and have a direct line to coders from the vendor so no not every just anyone's coating the elections. The bank you're recognized for a question. My question was answered okay represent the. Miller you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chair of senator Hammer. My good friend. Of. Yes both the other day about this under appreciated The answer my questions and and get my county Clerk of spider standing that we do The school board election or something like that that we discussed the other day that. If we could Wallace secretary state answer questions but I believe yes represent Migliore correct but let me clarify for the record please yes representative Miller if there is no candidates in the school election and they can just do a vote for cannot like with the paper ballot they don't have to actually code the election. Okay I have a follow up you're recognized thank you Mr So what does this bill as it is my understanding after that. Does it require the coding and all those technical. Verbalize stuff with these machines for what concerns me is like a a small town election our Election commissioners. Bye MacColl NO you know if we're gonna be one of the you know if the flat rock has a of a election for mayor you know there's going to be a hundred votes because there's seventy five people there and some armadillos vote that's a joke often laugh a little bit but You know what I are we taking away that discretion from them and that will cost them you know fifteen hundred two thousand dollars whatever it costs to get all these things program over over a hundred votes. Representative Miller there's actually two Arkansas codes that would require them to be ADA compliant so the coding is required I know in the past there have been counties that have not met those requirements and mainly we've been okay because the the federal government's never caught on that the ADA requirement was met but and a lot of people say well that's just a federal requirement but there are two specifically code sections that a deal that deal with allowing people to vote unassisted and that would be our handicapped voters so they still should be actually a hundred votes are not still be making it accessible to every voter in Arkansas. Follows yes Sir thank you Mr president you bring that up. I'm proud to represent the fraternity of disabled voters of. How is the federal government think that that a disabled voter would need help with the machine. The express what's in Arkansas have a set path and they have the audio ballot so it probably doesn't meet every requirement but it does meet the ADA requirements for the Senate puff and audio ballot for the visually impaired voters or the paralyzed voters. That's a new one on me thank you thank you Mr you will. Representative Richmond you're recognized for a question. Representative to make sure recognized for a question I'll throw one last one out here actually for the the secretary of state's office so in your testimony you said that obviously you know I the tabulator keeps all the ballots in at the end of the election if a county wants to they can count the ballots and confirm that the vote totals match what the tabulator came up with I assume that's probably did Martin has been done multiple times through the years and during that time and I think you've already answered this perhaps but hasn't been any instances where the two did not match and if so. Maybe what the circumstance was wasn't problem of the ballots with the machine care can you go into those details if those details exist state board might could better answer answer that representative makes as they do the audits and investigations to my knowledge I've never known of one to differ in a recount situation or the audits that state board is to all right thank you. Mr could Daniel respond to that because we want to cut your yes or that police. Do you understand the question sure yes Mister chairman Daniel recognized danger state Election Commission so I did I am aware of of some instance of it being done and I am not aware of any instance of by the county doing over a hand recount of its own or a hand audit of its own volition where there was an issue I can also tell you that following the twenty sixteen general election the state board at the General Assembly for authority to begin a post election audit program conducted state level that's mandatory we did a pilot program in twenty twenty in that context we randomly selected five counties going to public meeting and then randomly selected voting batches of DS two hundred counts all the ballot for funding with particular results state week and twenty twenty audited Nine thousand six hundred eighty one ballots all of the presidential race in five counties and they were a hundred percent in twenty twenty two well we're in the process we scale it up to fifteen counties we've done eight totaling fourteen thousand three hundred forty one ballots the only issue that I'm aware of where of tabulator and hand count would have any differing would be a hand marked ballots where it's an issue of did the voter fill in the bubble correctly and that's one of the advantages the DS two hundred system is that there is no voter intent issues with bubble feeling it's not a test of can you feel the bubble but beyond that issue of not aware of it the of a variation between the and review of the S. two hundred county of two hundred counts of. Representative Richmond you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr chairman I do hope this is my last question but I just picked up this handout and reading on the very back pages says the website election results are completely configured check the published within the boundaries of Arkansas no election results A. S. C. two files configurations or any other file associated with the set up of publishing a vote totals are sent to or received from any outside entity so again the web uses the internet how do you ensure. That no outside intervention can happen what is the safeguards it is that you can tell me within five minutes but the let me know please please give me some. Information about how is that information protected while it is on the web coming from wherever the voting site is to the secretary of state's office. Well we have it locked down about as tight as you can lock anything on the internet we have our techs that lock it down of our director of I. T. we have the the Seidel which is our vendor for the election are reporting locks it down and then the results actually come to my systems analyst here in Arkansas and he actually uploads the files and then like I said the main files are held at the county so if anything was ever to occur and we never had an instance where anything didn't match but that would be the the point that it would get caught is that they can't ever actually get to the real results from the county's tabulator. Follow up. Thank you Mr yeah how do you catch it if there is a difference between what you receive and what and what the county receive what do they check somebody go through them and actually check the different results how would you know if they've been messed with. Mister chairman of it representative Richmond you mind if Daniel addresses that question also thank you recognized thank you Mr chairman thank you committee so that's part of the the county's required and there's a statutory process is required to be conducted for certification of results in part of the port port part of this bill is to have reliable results quickly on election night but those are never the legal results live results are ten to fifteen days after and this the county is required to take every the S. two hundred results take that signed by the officials who ran the tape and it has to be run in public and review those and ensure that those paper results printed out of the machine support the electronically amalgamated data so that is the so if there was some sort of deviation between what was reported unofficially and the results that were printed on the machine that's how to be detected thank. Both representatives has raised questions. Thank you Mister chair I want to go back to my previous question about. the coding and who is allowed to code it sounds like to me there's there's just kind of a hodgepodge of people who are allowed to code these machines I've did I miss that who who specifically is responsible for the coating of the programs that The board of the vote election commissioners put the data in and the data goes to their coders that they work with election systems and software that's the vendor side of it if the council chooses to pay for and do their own coding they hire either election coordinator you know basically and they take the election information put it into the coding system so there's two ways to code you hire your own coder and your own coding system which is through the vendor or the vendors employees do the coding most counties work with the same code or about every time. So follow up. So so on elections at the the SS We were counting on the employees there to make sure that they coded it correctly no Sir they code it how the council puts it in the coding goes back to the county to testing to proof read it's still on the local County Board of election commissioners. Follows so then were counting on the County Board of election commissioners to a coated everything properly not code it but they proofread what was coated they don't all have the access to code it only five counties can code their own elections they put it into what's called the portal basically your top and let's say were there just type in your name in as a candidate for your district they do that for everybody that's eligible for that election in their districts. Then E. SNS compiles the the other data they were in the media they burn the media send it back to the county and that's where the testing starts coming from the vendor codes it and by coating it all they're really doing is compiling it into a software program that compiles it into a valid lay out and then the County Board of election commissioners are ultimately responsible for testing that making sure reason to the election reporting manager for uploads to the state right so it's all still locally controlled they just don't actually burn media the vendor does that so. So far a I do Mr you're recognized thank you Mr chairman so five counties do their own. The other is sounds like goes to elections election security That is coated by the vendor and checked by the County Board of election commissioners. Yes okay that's how it's always been in since two thousand five okay and so the County Board of election commissioners does some kind of check but I mean is there is there anything that would prohibit. Or or the some type of audit to make sure there wasn't some malicious code written by the vendor the logic and accuracy test codes that they get a test that with such a set amount of results and they test that back to the tabulation into the election are report that's the part of the testing that's done ahead of the election. If I if I might add Mr the Committee chairman I want to make sure we're distinguishing two things the coating that the director shall we talk about is plugging in the names the issues in the races not the coating of the computer itself that. Underlying code is tested and certified election assistance commission and and reviewed and that the that the on the federal program source code and I was talk about that that's what's tested at the federal level up for and that's what certified as working correctly through a lodging actually testing the content of coding that the counties do is simply plugging in the issues and rights. The representative Crawford you're recognized for a question thank you Mr chairman. so you brought up something that I have a question about who knows the codes. That count the votes who who has that information. Where does it come from. I'm not sure I understand your question ma'am okay we do coding and I may not be saying it right so you may have to help me here. You say that. Coating is done in the machines. Each machine has a code right the county has codes for that each each ballot style has a code and then each candidate has a code that's how they know that it it prints out the candidate's name. On the ballot or for use in the digital scan you mark the oval by the candidate's name. Okay and the testing cages that it counts right so like if they were in five ballots through for Cindy Crawford. They're gonna check that to make sure that you got all five of the votes that it didn't record for senator Hammer thing that's the coding I mean I've. I think I understand what you're trying to get to but that's how they tested to make sure that it's all coded correctly the bar codes are associated with the right candidate and the digital tracking is coded to that candidate okay who can Crawford you're recognized you're recognized college as a who can. And the bar codes are a big deal with my constituents. Because they're saying okay we have who we want to vote for. But then on them is that the tabulator paper what it whatever you go to put in the tabulator. Then they are asking. Because they're not real sure because you can't read barcode they're not real sure that the name date voted even though I would have a bar code in my name right correct how would they know that that is correct due to that go with that thank you can't tell necessarily that it's correct at that moment because all ballots are secret I think that over time that the testing and testing and testing that's been done the audits that have been done prove what they say that the bar code represents is correct I don't really bar code either I can look and see that right balance is I've got Cindy Crawford Senator Hammer Daniel Schultz on it. You put that into the machine and when you're testing that's where they tell if it's working right and and tabulating correctly it's just like the audits that they do it's come out exactly to what has been done on the hand count audits that's that's the only source code I'm not even necessarily source codes of Marco code that you're going to see is that it prints the name out you're not gonna be able to tell what that slink back to Mr chairman made Daniel add on to that I think you can put some clarity on yes thank you well and and and really just to re emphasize what direct Bellamy said no I'm I'm an attorney I don't speak for codered coding or any of that but what I do know is I can tell if I read of the English written on the ballot because it is a paper a paper ballot that we have and and then you compare that to the account the machine gave you coming off the barcode and and you see if it's the same yeah we we're doing that I think doing more of it is a good thing but that's the fundamental way to the top confident your question yes can I have one more follow up yes ma'am do you think you could do training and that and all of our county so that we can read or barcodes thank you. I think that one the point we've discussed that we want to encourage counties do is because I'm concerned about the the concerns of everyone here this but before that's very important and we take to heart I think I'm I'm I think this bill. It is sound policy but I think that one of the things we intend to do in our training session is to encourage counties to do their own auditing so that there are more and more and more data one if there is a probably won't know about it and to to to help people have confidence in the outcome. Richmond you're recognized for a question. Thank you Mr just trying to get this straight now as I understand what what happens at the county level really is program. That their programming who's going to be on the balance is going to be picked and chosen. And this is how I'm hoping I'm getting it straight in my mind because that's that's different than coding. Coding is when you get into the language that the computer speaks and water recognizes and and what I'm hearing is that you've got checks and balances. For both of those particular situations am I correct in that. I don't care what answer I wanna answer yes to be called in question by the one of the experts but I will say yes or that that is exactly right. Representative does have recognized thank you Mr chair so my understanding to follow up on representative Christmas question is the check that you have in place to check not the programming of the of the races that are on the ballot but the programming of how those now the votes are ultimately recorded that's that's the code or what I'm going to refer to as the code and the way that that's check my understanding of it is through the logic and accuracy test. But is there any way that we can know whether or not something's been executed to make the logic Act accuracy test look correct and then on the back in. Change the way votes are are done well you're correct but you can actually test is is half of that peace and every single piece of equipment is Ellen I tested in every single election the other half is the random sampling audits that we do by requirement of law that the counties may do if they choose that follow up recognized I guess my point is you know if there was some type of malicious code I'm not saying that this is happened just wanna be clear but if there could be malicious code that would allow the the tabulation to pass the logic and accuracy test and then do something different after the fact what is is is there any way to test for that or to control for that well and that's the very concerned that led to the postelection out of being put in place because remember we're looking at the piece of the incorrect on the pay or the paper but the the words and so if for say the the machine or program I don't think it's the case no evidence of it the list for hypothetical purposes say it was program to count every hundred vote flip it the other way. That would ship make the count the hand count and the machine got would obviously be different of the circumstances and there's no way that would be detected by the audit if you review the the paper ballot one or more while you're recognized do you audit primary elections no but we it into we that there's bill filed that ensure to see its path for the end of session to expand it to a primary elections. Okay thank you. It further questions from committee members. Say none. Director shojo based usually on the table. Senator Hammer you're recognized close we bill thank you for sharing all the is brief as I can but I do want to get on a couple points and I appreciate the thoroughness with which the committee has asked questions and hopefully it has brought to everybody's mind that we do have good election integrity in the state one thing I want to make sure is that there was a individual that testified while ago about the Municipal League all the who Jack is a fussy Jack with the Municipal League and I sent him a message and said does the minister pulley are they against this bill they said and I'll show you the text if you want to see a he says that the Municipal League has no position on this bill so want to clear that point up if you will because sometimes that's what happens is misinterpreted information misinformation where the case may be gets put out there and people make decisions on the basis of that I would hope that with everything that's been shared by those that we entrust with our election charity here in the state it would take into consideration the testimony that were given by the witnesses today and that you make a decision just on the factual answers that they have given one thing I wanna make sure to drive home is that this is not an anti paper ballot bill that has been made out to be what it does is just establishes a process to defuse a county choose to do so here's the guidelines because one thing we want to do is we don't want seventy five county students seventy five different things we want to make sure that all seventy five counties are held accountable if you choose to deviate from what is a statewide accepted practice protected in law then why should the other counties have to bear the burden of paying the additional costs that you have chosen to make a decision to do so I want to bring that real clear distinction because that's what the bill does And I don't want a misunderstanding about that with regards to situations involving may be voter you know what to which machine accuracy or some of you say well that's not my vote the one thing it wasn't brought out was that they actually had three cases where they went out and. Vestor gated three complaints about machines flipping the vote and they found out determine that on each one of those it was the it was the it was the actual voter that made the mistake not the machine and I think that's important that we are watching for things and that we have systems in place in order to respond to that the last thing I would have asked you will couple things one you have to handouts that I gave you one shows the step by step process as far as when you going to vote however how it processes all the way through then you have that other more deep dive document if you would and I hope it shows I hope that that shows that we do have good systems in place and I guess I'll close with this last thing I read this down on the other end and this is from Trent mentor who ran a very close race in fact if you go back and you look at the races that have been close admin very controversial in the state over the last two election cycles each one of them dealt with something related to paper okay. Transmitters made this comment they put out a public statement so it's not that I'm revealing anything confidential should I want to thank Faulkner County Election Commission staff the Faulkner county Clerk Margaret darter for their diligence together they promptly addressed the campaign's request for a recount Faulkner county and state of Arkansas should be proud of their work while the results of the recount did not change the outcome of the race the transparency and speed with which they accomplish the recount leaves nothing to be desired we are fortunate Faulkner County have such professionalism integrity in our elections the commission the clerks office in their staff have shown themselves to be model for the rest of state any concludes by saying Arkansas can be proud knowing that every lawful vote was counted every voice was heard and that we are blessed to live in a county with free and fair elections this is from a Republican who lost but took it with grace and dignity maybe one day he'll be back but at least for his election he gave the assurance that the process is in place at our discussions today we're fair accurate and gave good results and with that Mister chairman I would hope for the good results of this committee to vote do pass and I appreciate it thank you very much Senator Hammer is closed this bill what's pleasure of the Committee. I have a motion of no pass any discussion on the motion. The Committee representative property recognized for discussion on the motion of the past thank you Mr chair. I respect you greatly Kim Hammer and I respect that. All have signed on to this I originally signed on to all the election integrity bills but I did not get a chance to read them and when this one came out my constituents went berserk. And they are still going berserk. They do not trust what's going on I don't know how to fix that. I'm not smart enough to fix that. But what I am is I'm smart enough to vote for them. And because of that I will be voting NO. On this bill thank you. Would you like to be removed from this room. Because I can remove you just really quick. You are not disrupted Committee meeting. I will not have it. Do you think it's funny. We're trying to conduct business here and we've been very very CAD to each and everyone in this room and try to give you as much leeway as possible here all testimony but I will not have another outburst like that under any circumstances. Representative Crawford thank you for speaking on the on the motion is there any other discussion on the motion representative Bentley you're recognized for discussion on the motion thank you chairman I think your brother came here today to share the concerns I think Senator Hammer the third job that you've done this being the county that have been in I can see the only time that we had any errors it was human error it was on paper I think we've done an excellent job with audits I'm proud of what we've done this state that we board a part of the twenty five bills we have a proud because sponsor of this as well and I will be do pass on this. The representative Bentley has spoken on the motion and the other discussion on the motion. Shane none all in favor say aye. All opposed say no. Yeah I was having to bills passed. Thank you Mr chairman members thank you committee members this meeting is adjourned thank you.