Judiciary Committee - Senate

What to a last year. The flowers. For induction pages. Good morning. I understand we have a. A number of pages here today we please stand up when I call your name. Riley duralens. She's from senator Wallace is district over in East Arkansas northeast Arkansas. Glad to have you what Briley. How old are you. Twelve years old see about in the sixth grade seven. Six great okay good hopefully you learned something today. Jackson brown. Jackson we're glad to have you here from senator Hammer is district as well as Ryan fuller. Ryan we're glad to have you and Max yes. Hello Max what grade are you all in. Seven. We're glad to have you all. This will be a civics lessons for today. I have two pages here Jude Kearney. I do. This. Hi and this. I'm glad to have you as my pages today what grade are you all in. Twelve all right in June. Your senior do what school. I'm glad to have you and you too this. All right well hopefully you'll learn a good civics lesson to. And then we have Libby Faulkner. This Is Senator Tucker is paid in I don't know if this is your sister or not Avra Faulkner. Two sisters are y'all twins. No okay and what grade are you in. This freshman in high school. We're glad to have you yeah I'm sure you're Senators Rapert definitive Tucker he's. In from ear to ear. The the these are my cousins so you'll take it easy on this yes ma'am okay what jim. Thank you for coming. That's what my hand. Thank you thanks thank you senator flowers we are waiting on a couple amendment for the criminal justice bill in the meantime we have Mister Unger representative Munger from the House run a hopefully non controversial bill Senate house bill fifteen fifty. Fifteen if you state your name and your phone district secretary of a resident longer you're recognized thank you Mr Speaker I state representative Steve Unger District nineteen. And Senators thank you for hearing me this morning House Bill fifteen fifty came to me as a suggestion from the city prosecutor of Springdale which basically allows in a criminal case if there's restitution to be paid to a victim. The victim gets paid first before the court fees I showed this to the city prosecutor fade bill he also agreed this is a good bill this is a bill that basically helps victims of crime who really could use that money sooner than later to replace either a front door or window or car it went through the house with ninety nine votes in I ask you for your consideration. Part German you've heard of thanks much of the bill or any questions from committee. Senator flowers you're recognized. Is this for all courts circuit and district courts. I see the District Court certain references in section two. So is section one dealing with circuit court's felony cases. Yes ma'am I believe that's true. What is the process now. Ma'am the process now is the court fees are paid first a lot of times on a schedule it may take months and months or longer for the victim all we get is money his or her money. Well this is not the state have a victim's a. Assistance program that. Page victims. Restitution or some kind of compensation for their injury or harm yes ma'am there is a state victims fund There's an application process for that and I believe there is a cap on it this simple the Puts money in the victim's hands faster and if if there DO Payment they should be able to get it and if there's still a loss I'm sure they could appeal to the victims restitution fund. So they wouldn't do both. Ma'am if if they were ma'am I I honestly don't know the answer to that I don't see why they couldn't do both if they were still in need. Thank you. Representive under this is just just this is speech addressed six process up that's the main contents this bill and it. Yes Sir it a seat at the restitution process for the victim and then the the courts will get their money later correct any other questions from committee. Saying under anyone the audience would like to speak for against the bill. So you know you closing your bill instructor yes Sir representante. RT of chair will entertain a motion I have a motion to pass seven second. Any discussion. All those in favor say aye All opposed. Bill pass under regulations. Senator Gilmore you ready. You're recognized. And to do more for you state your name in your district. You're recognized to present. Thank you Mr I'd like to ask that I have two people come to the table with me that's Brian Cooper missed on raw. All right. Senator Gilmore district one. Here to present. Senate bill four ninety five with that Mister chair I have an amendment that needs to be adopted that are As co sponsors and then it's agreed to amendments that we need to discuss with the bill bonds just a tweak some language that's in the bill so with that I'll make a motion to adopt. Well I'll take questions first for any questions on the amendment. March we have. We have a motion to adopt the amendment. I have a motion and second to adopt the amendment all in favor say aye. A post. Ma'am submitted often you're recognized to present Senate bill four ninety five. No more thank you Mr members of the I'm very proud to be here today to present Senate bill forty five which I think is going to be a game changer for our state in addressing many of the for the crime problems that we face in the state. And for too many of our communities across the state much like areas I represent crime plagues our streets threatens our economic viability and and all that we hold dear Arkansas as one of the highest violent crime rates in the US and that's in large part because Arkansas is criminal justice system has acted as a revolving door for for too long. Repeat violent offenders who routinely serve a mere fraction of their sentences are allowed back into communities where they wreak havoc on our Kansans this is unacceptable and our Kansans deserve to feel safe in their homes and in their communities I would be very clear about this legislation they will be tough on crime by enacting truth in sentencing where the most dangerous the sexual violence centers will spend either a hundred percent or eighty five percent of their sentence incarceration. This will help bring. These dangerous some of sexual violence fenders. to justice and and where they will be incarcerated where they can no longer Threaten the safety that we all should be able to enjoy it ends the dangerous game of catch release with our criminal justice system that plays that our criminal justice system plays with violent criminals it also recognizes that our brave law enforcement officers. Shouldn't be required to catch the same criminals over and over again. And most importantly I think the victims and their families deserve. To not be threatened by the same violent offenders and should be able to feel safe again in their communities and their homes but make no mistake. This bill isn't just tough on crime it's also very smart on crime we help reduce recidivism by transitioning inmates back into society preparing them to enter the workforce after their sentence we eliminate automatic release. They were in require inmates to earn release through workforce education programming. This bill also expands specialty court's and helps divert those who are better served through treatment options and we help increase the utilization of reentry facilities in this bill. That's an overview what this bill does I am very proud to say that I have with me here or Attorney General Tim Griffin who just walked in the room who has been instrumental in this bill. His office has been leading on this issue I want to say thank you to the governor's office for their support and her leadership on this issue and I've asked the lieutenant governor he would just bear a few minutes to help present this bill so I'm asking with that too just take a seat in an offer a few remarks on the on the presentation of the bill. I answered but anything. Turning Michael. Can you hear me it's a long way down it's like a dining room wages. Of thank you do you want to introduce yourself for the record and jim Griffin. The Attorney General of even though we call the lieutenant governor I love my and he's a good man well you you were once but you are the Attorney General now thank you for being here the law thanks anyway thank you for give me a few minutes you know what we hear a lot you know the general background the bill and and I'm sure the center's done amazing job. You're all you've probably read all the talking points on both sides in the bill. Let me just say this Common sense is when you've got people Killin right and do it all kind of violence things the number one goal was to incapacitate them. Was that mean it means. Put in place we can't do that to you. It's pretty simple is it is not hard you don't have to go to. You want to go to some big school no that is just common sense And yeah we lost a lot of people of the state. But we we lease. We release some almost as fast as we lockable. Our entire system our entire system in this state. Is geared toward release I've been told by parole board members over the years that the culture is get him out the door. That's the culture. The current role board there are people on their who they are just absolutely dead set on getting people out. An emergency release of hundreds and ultimately thousands of people all about get amount Gillam. And The problem with that is you're releasing people into society who would do us harm in that's part of the problem yeah we have a higher we if you go back over a hundred years I read a book on nineteenth century Arkansas we've always had more violence in some other states. Knowing that. Didn't help on this issue. We're talking about right now. and so we have an we have a system geared toward releasing people and some of that is due to the pressure of lack of capacity where put people. Not but but this preview this problem of release eggs it's it's culturally it is pre existed eight pre exist the the issue of capacity. So we got to fix that. Our and you know I've heard from so many people on the front lines but look the federal system that's the only thing they're scared of. That's a fact the state while the scare the federal system what was the federal system because you actually do most you Tom. They're scared the federal system because you're often now see former U. S. attorney but commentary is intimately familiar with this you end up putting people. FOR way away from where they live where they grew up they don't like that. You are gone for a long time they're scared of it they're not scared of our system our system is a revolving door it's catch and release however you want to of described in that has to stop. And there's just a lot of canards a lot of falsehoods out there we've talked about before the prisons are not full of. They're not full of pot smoking and shoplifting and hot check writer writers so what the full of those people you work to get in Arkansas Press. That's a fact why because it's a really tough it's a tough ticket to get Cozart many left. And so what happens is if you're misdemeanor. You're almost for certain not going anywhere you're not going going to jail because the jails full ones. And for all the people we don't want to expand presence guess what Senate before will say it again you have been presiding over prison expansion for a decade or eight years. And you've been doing it the closed secretive why. You've been doing it by just quietly funding. Those county jails. Right now misdemeanor justice and so everybody in the legislature has expansion on their hands already. We're just going to the right way. To a county sheriff. His jails not full because he's got a bunch of drunk drivers he's full because you. Both sides of the aisle allow old felons to be pushed into the county jails. That's what where they can't get treatment is not particularly helpful. So. What this does at a at the top level is it expands the capacity. Which is basically just fix in twenty years of. We are okay that's number one you got to do that. I wish people didn't hurt each other I wish it was a you know what until the lord comes back the second half but. Okay so we live on while other people could live in the world of rainbows and glitter and unicorns I'm living in reality what I've had to attempted murders within three football field to my front door and I live in what I consider a relatively safe neighborhood so that's the reality I'm living in okay and the reality is we have got to expand capacity to take first and foremost the the violent felons out of the county jails they do not belong there. County jails it. County jails were built for a purpose they were not built to be present. The infrastructure is not built that way the staff training is not built that way except except for so the first thing we got to do is move those county jail felons out. Can put him in the state prisons that's number one then you've got to have room for expansion and low ability this bill says Hey guess what we're not going to be relied on emergency release. While good have you looked at the list of people we will release. Into your community if your guess what for all to be released right in your front yard. Caesar. And and so this is really this is really critical so we're going to get a quick relational we're going to take those people the county jails put him in the presence and then I have room to grow now. At a fundamental level what this bill does setting the capacity saw. Is it says misdemeanor justice matters will allow that to start working again. And what it says is we're going to flip the default. The current the full is go to prison and your your your parole eligibility date is your that your sense. That's your sense. That's not debatable the fact showing me this is not a debate this is these are objective facts if you get ten years you will probably be released under parole eligibility date. And. That means you're only serving a fraction yeah I have a spreadsheet these I'm happy to share with the press or anybody else it took about a year to compile you got people get twelve years for violent crimes. Who did hundred forty four months to do twenty four months. And you may think less because they behaved no this particular person I'm thinking about seventeen months of misbehavior including battery of an officer and still got out on the parole eligibility date of twenty four months. That's the system we have it's a it's a joke it's a total joke if there was ever a system crying for complete reset you know when your computer gets a blue screen there's nothing you can do but restart it that's what we are. That's what we are so this bill is fundamental it will flip the default from you get out early to you can serve your time but the beauty is particularly at the in the non violent area where there's a possibility of rehabilitation those individuals are gonna have a lot of incentives to get out early. And that is what makes this a balanced approach and people say we can't happen well the cartridge we need programs you need both you need all the programs work that you need at all so it's not my bills the centers but I love it and I appreciate all the work that he did that Ferguson Gazaway that staff is done right Cooper my staff and staff from from all corrections and other so I'm just. Some nothing's going perfect okay what if we implement this poorly will still be better off we are now. Thank you for your thank you thank you. You. What by the way Page. I get a list as chair of family correctional I get a list of the parolees every month or two and I'm shocked when I go through dozens and dozens of pages of potential parolees and is in to see where they stand it's just amazing. Mr chairman Mao mental more than at four thirty twenty something thousand parolees out there about. We don't know where over five thousand. David Scott did not mention the five thousand number department corrections told me it was more like eleven thousand that they don't know where they are in a parole board member told me that every time he interviews a parole E. yes this question. How many felonies did you commit before you will call think about that. He's interviewing the person who wants to get out he says I'm not all this against you how many felonies did you commit before you got call he says he's never heard a number less than a hundred. It shouldn't shock is how many times you speed for you got call. A lot the point is this is a lot for some of these people to complete way of life and they get called on that one time but when they're of Scott ended they're out doing no good. By definition thank you all. Thank you senator. Senator Gilmore thank you for the overview and the result was a more the overview how do you wish to do you wish to proceed with this well I I'd like more detail and what this committee as question well I I'd like to just make a few more statements and then open it up for questions from the committee okay you're right I'm not one of the things that the Attorney General pointed out was the fact that something I made in an earlier opening statement was the fact its revolving door and I you know I think most of us on this committee believe you get what you incentivize and what we've been incentivising is for inmates are criminals to get picked up put into a facility where they're gonna be automatic released after most cases serving only won six of their sentence and then they're just released back out to the attorney general's point he mentioned automatically basically the release date is there parole eligibility and that ends with this bill. But again we get we incentivize so when they're in there and they're only serving that mere fraction of their sentence there's no incentive for them to earn her go through programming to better themselves or prepare them to be out on the streets and so when there's no incentive for good behavior or change behavior you don't get that this bill will change that dramatically I think that this bill as I I've said at the press conference was announced will bring order to chaos and so I look forward to the passage of this bill in the implementation so we can actually see the of the effects of this bill what it will do and I think will bring some transparency and clarity to a system that is quite frankly it best I think disingenuous with the public and certainly with the offenders that are fall under it so with that I'm happy to take questions from the committee regarding the bill. We are a committee you've heard and. Overview semi explanation of a hundred thirty five age bill any questions Senator flowers you're recognized. Well off the top that I haven't had time to really up the read and understand the bill but I'm looking at this the term is used in the bill senator All the. A post prison transfer board is that something new no ma'am it is basically renaming what we know is the parole board under the affected day this bill for those adjudicated after the effective on or after the effective date is bill that board will be the post prison transfer board. So so is the parole board will be renamed the post prison transfer board that's what you're saying and that's correct because hello how will will there be some re organization to constitute what is a post prison transfer more work that's doesn't. The include the members presently serving on the parole board. No but those members are appointed by the governor but the the rules will change for those that are incarcerated or sentence after the effective date certain of this bill and so parole as we know it after the effective date certain of this bill will will change dramatically and there's no more of this automatic release that just because you're eligible for parole you get released you will be earning your way out of incarceration I and a lot of that will be done through rule promulgation but the overall point of it is to incentivize and prepare inmates that are leaving incarceration to hopefully get job training workforce training hopefully get their life in in in order so that they can be productive and better citizens in our communities well I have that the scene just automatic eligibility and parole for those eligible for parole I've seen more the instances where people have been that not parole. And it's their time in terms of eligibility so I would differ with that description but the other thing who's going to establish these rules for this post for prison transfer board. What makes up those rules. It will it will be promulgated through the normal process what is your A. L. C. it's a it's under the administrative procedures act so who makes those rules up who presents them to A. L. C. for their review. The department of corrections will do that and the members of the post release supervision or the post road for transfer board will do that. And so then the the make up of the board in terms of numbers will that change not not with this bill. We'll. Nothing will change about that board. No. It members of that board nothing will change the members of that board only how they implement the rules going forward under this bill. I would like to get back on the list. Thank you Senator Tucker you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair. Senator I have a new policy. And that policy is I promise to only ask one question for each page in the bill. They're they're enough I'll have lunch ordered. I'd like to start with just some questions to help me understand some aspects of it. and I'd like to expand on something that you touched on you you talked about the fact that the post prison release board or whatever it's called transfer port transfer board the rules are gonna be dramatically different than they are with the parole board now and and so are you telling me that we don't really know how that's going to be until those rules promulgated or are how much can you tell me right now about how different post release supervision will be. Once this is a loss from the current system we have well I can tell you for those adjudicated under the this bill so after the on or after the effective date of this bill the rules will change there's going to be those it'll serve a hundred percent of their sentence those who serve eighty five percent other sentence those you Sir fifty percent and twenty five percent my at I don't have to but my question is really about after release how the supervision gonna be different after release that is on the current system the other two hundred twenty five or whatever if if I may continue with my apologies no you're fine so so with that we're assuming that inmates are going to earn their way out of prison that's our goal we want them to be rehabilitated we want them to have been sentenced to hopefully get their lives back on track once they get out so once they get out there's a lot of language as it relates to the parole board currently in the bill and some of that's in the very early pages of the bill and lot of that is supported language that already establishes how the parole board functions and so a lot of that language does not necessarily change we've changed it for this bill for those adjudicated under this bill and so what I'm gonna do it so if I may I'm gonna ask miss while to use maybe walk through some of that because there's not a ton of changes from how the parole board will function now other than how they will apply the foreign release credits for those who are now earning their way out of prison and so you were your you were assumes under this bill to serve a hundred percent of your sentence if unless you are on your way out and there's going to be very broad ways to do that and that will be promulgated through the administrative procedures act certainly will come before this committee ultimi through a LC in the. General but Misraba please feel free to to jump in and add to that if if necessary. And so. Sorry this is not available So. As a general rule the procedural languages authority would you go into introduce yourself and who you're with sure thing Tony Ryall and with the Arkansas sentencing commission which is part of the department of corrections so primarily for release mechanisms the changes are going to be the percentage of minimum serving time and that process by which you know instead of having a good time versus parole eligibility it's kind of going to all be are these credits I maybe understood the question to be a little bit more about what happens on the supervision and after they're released exactly okay so most of the language about that supervision is also kind of ported over from existing law and I know that the Department strives to use evidence based practices and there is a little bit a language that strengthens that for example the offender violation guide is going to provide for some additional ways to earn positive points for you know behavior that decreases recidivism getting vocational certificates volunteering in your community things like that. If I make about a little bit so right now obviously if you're out on parole which now will be post we supervision obviously there's there's supervision to make sure that you are not re offending or not doing things you shouldn't be doing and so with that there are there's revocation that's sometimes required if if these Folks who are going to be out on post release supervision or picked up for you know a technical violation or something of that nature and so currently right now there's very limited ways for them to earn positive points to counteract negative points so this bill broadens that out so that they can earn more positive points they have the opportunity more positive points so that we hopefully can break that cycle of recidivism so when they go to a you know a little lower intermediate facility then hopefully they can earn deposit points before they end up perhaps back into prison incarceration so this bill broadens that out because at the end of the day we're trying to incentivize them and not necessarily penalize them. Okay but that was really good in that what I was looking for how post release supervision will be different than the current parole system after release and you're telling me there be more opportunities for positive points to be earned correct okay and it is substantially it'll be similar are there any other significant differences. No I think I think the bones of it will be similar again it's about we're incentivizing and and and earning those points and and how they do that okay. That's firm and some might not my next question is kind of what else started with which is the earned release credits. How is that going to be different so my question similar to the first one how will that be different than than what it is now I understand your present a hundred and you have worked your way back I understand that Sir but what can you do to are those credits how will that be different than it is under current law how will be administered a we expanding that is their funding for that are kind of want to flush that out so as you probably already know center there's a lot of ways currently I think the current system is called meritorious good time there's a lot of ways to earn I guess points I'm not sure if it's called points in that system but to earn meritorious good time we're building on that and we're expanding that and a lot of that in addition to what we're doing will be more. Fleshed out in rulemaking but the structure that is going to be similar it's just right now I would argue there's very little incentive for inmates to go that route with and arguably if you're only serving one six of your sentence there's a probably a good chance you're going to get out before you can even complete a lot of this programming and so right now it's going to be a mandate that if you want your early release you're going to have to work to earn that and in five if I if you need to expound on that please do. And I do think that one meaningful part of the bill is that there's some language that requires the secretary of corrections to coordinate with the work force chief for the state and then some community partnerships and community based organizations to ensure that the programming that is currently in the presence is useful it's providing meaningful opportunities for work and just generally that you know what they're doing within the presence is effective in actually moving the needle for recidivism yeah we're we're we're calling for there to be sort of a comprehensive look at all of that you know one of the things that I think that we can do a better job in this state and this bill helps with that is the utilization of reentry beds and so we're gonna we're gonna try to I think we're creating ways to better utilize those beds going forward and the broadening the the population of those who might be eligible for those bets so. To to her point this bill frequently in this bill it speaks to workforce training it speaks to programming it speaks to a lot of things even in one section in particular with family considerations that has parenting classes has prenatal care classes for inmates who might be pregnant while incarcerated so there's a lot of things in here that hopefully will provide training but but. But expand on the training that's already in the system now we're just making or just incentivizing that they utilize that that training the inmates going forward okay Senate let me interrupt just to the second please send Tucker Senator Gilmore there's been a couple of questions could you could you a distinguish between which groups you are actually talking about when you talk about your bill T. and the other group that's above the eighty five percent which groups. On the low groups. I understand what I'm saying I'm not sure I follow we're talking about the eligibility requirements for how we're going to read reintroduces people back into society so they can can have a more productive life have you distinguish between what groups you're talking about because yeah I'm specifically yes specifically referring to the eighty five percent to fifty percent to twenty five percent the eighty five percent is spelled out on the very early pages this bill and then the fifty percent twenty five percent will be promulgated through rulemaking as to what crimes fit in that category that will come before this committee and then A. L. C. in the interim and that will be based on sentencing commission's review of those particular crimes but when I'm speaking of those eligible for release and those earning earn release credits I'm specifically speaking to the eighty five percent of the fifties and twenty five percent okay. Part thank. Thank you Mr chair that there's a couple at just to follow up on that will there be. more in the way of support and funding for these programs as a result of this. I would argue yes because they're gonna be utilized so therefore the again whatever programming is created as a result of this bill yes will will occur the funding to support that I go back to the point of most of these programs are already in existence and now we're just utilizing them more. This is admittedly narrow question but it's right on the topic that we're discussing on on page sixty three of the bill. In section one oh two it has a list of the programs that are that are offered. And it changes it from that they shall be offered today may be offered. It's a great question center five let me get right there. So. Let's see here. Sixty three. The other is. Yes so some of these programs may not fit what's actually needed in in today's work force or industry so and and some of the offenders may not even be qualified to serve in some of the fields there listed here so we're giving flexibility to the Department to to make the adjustments needed so that these inmates can utilize this programming and also make sure that it fits the industry needs and the five. If if I maybe misstated that I'm asking for all the to. I think you said it really well it just change that furnace of language so that if there are you know. Items on that list that the training is not working and they can't get inmates jobs in those fields I got the opportunity to Riach reallocate those resources and put that money somewhere where there is a meaningful opportunity for the inmates to have employment yeah I think a prime example that would be implemented medical technology that requires perhaps some background checks or things of that nature which I'm. I mean quite frankly an inmate may not be able to meet the the criteria are you know out in the work force so it would make sense to be training on something that they're not going to fit the criteria for. Okay. A I want to ask a couple questions about some of the other programming and I'll I'll turn it back over to somebody else Mister chair but I'm curious specifically about. Before it comes back to me not that I don't get your hopes up well. I'm curious about alcohol education that's on page forty five of the bill you mentioned especially courts in your opening how is that being expanded how is that being funded there's another piece on page sixty five of the bill the department corrections will assess the impact and efficacy of the programs we've been talking about how is that going to happen I just I'm just curious to learn about. To flesh out how some of this is going to work. Yes. Yeah up can we take those one at a time because of the specially courts are going to be on pages seventy or so when the apples are yes absolutely So. On page forty five speak to the Department Human Services I coordinate with department corrections so basically we want to make sure that that were utilizing all resources so we have those too are currently licensed in the state maybe under DHS that can be utilized to teach programming at the Department corrections we should utilize that I think that's just smart government and so that specifically is what this bill twenty two on page forty five you mentioned specialty court's we get to I think it's pages is a seventy seventy three thank yeah. So we're basically with authorizing language authorization language for AOC in this bill to expand their specialty court program that's going to be reflected with funding coming I believe in our assay that will we've already had a lot of discussion on that so. We want to make sure that we have the resources so that we if we can divert people that were doing that because we don't want to incarcerate people who quite frankly don't need to be incarcerated and so as you as you know well I'm sure senator that specially courts can be a good option for those now keep in mind it is very it's very strict on the the rules in the guidelines that they have to follow so they have to be very serious about what they're wanting to do if if they're going to say committed to that programming so basically this is authorizing language for them to expand their current program to expand contracts for attorneys to represent these individuals and also expands and utilize treatment options would be at DHS or or other qualified providers and that's on page seventy four we're talking about the qualified trigger price providers thank you that's all great and I'm I'm glad to hear that there will be some funding because that that's the following questions what you already answered but the one more follow up questions for that is if if you know what that number might be on the funding I have an idea don't don't hold me to this I think it's a ball park it's it's around four million just over four million okay. To the to the current program okay then yeah okay. and then. But then the other one I mention is on page sixty five the department's going to. Assess the impact and efficacy of their programs and how that's how it's going to work and be implemented so that was I think she actually answered that question already where it talks about the department shall regularly regularly excess their programming I mean again we just wanna make sure that we're doing is working and that what we're doing meets the needs of the inmates as well as preparing them for life outside of the prison walls. Okay thank you with that Mister thank you senator president have you're recognized. Thank you Mr chairman and our center Tucker center Gilmore of coverage amount I'm sorry I got caught in the home state in late out watch the video on your addressing specialty court's you enough talks about that do we set up a court for veteran violations few sessions ago but I believe that's correct bessere McCollum specially because Roddy especially without you know we're you know better there is specially court correct in that and and in the. By the way I do appreciate you and representative gas lease work on this I know it's been extensive Do you feel we didn't have a proposed increase in funding for the mental health aspect. Did I hear that. So there are it with within this bill there is a mental health pilot program is that what you're referring to Senator Widger some increase funding so they're going to DHS is going to do that I believe under existing utilizing existing funding but there is there is the possibility increase funding is required for maybe start up costs that would be reflected more and perhaps RSA and budget chairs with can speak to that but that is the discussion that we're having that there might be needed start up costs but with that the mental health private program I think I mentioned it in my opening remarks is a way to evaluate and hopefully restore people who are experiencing a mental health crisis to get them prepared to be adjudicated and so that would be a pilot program that's a cost share between County jails and DHS to basically county jails would volunteer to you know offer space be it a few beds to house these individuals DHS will provide the expertise will provide the providers will provide what's needed to help restore these individuals. And hopefully we can get them on a better path once they're more stabilized your his answer questions it does and I appreciate what we'll go your definition of the of something defect each marriage not just opening bank claim mental health because. Mental health can can be from a lot of times we have people say they from a disadvantaged background and all that for excuses of violent crime in a light and it may be but it doesn't excuse the actions so correct that they're it they're going to have to fall within the criteria that can be helped and and that they qualify for hours it's not just a cop out is what I'm getting yeah I think that's a great way to say it I mean look at the end of the day what we're experiencing were seen as violent episodes quite frankly that are playing out in our police are required to deal with those and and I don't think we've probably done the best job that we could in providing them the resources hopefully this helps solve that problem going forward and I think that you know when you have someone who's violent in who's obviously experiencing a mental episode you certainly don't want to send them to the ER or or something or a a lower level of mental health facility like a crisis stabilization unit or something that nature they need to be where they can be away from other people to to be able to be restored sometimes it may just be I think you know getting their medications regulated so we want to make sure that we have the space to do that and it's counties some county jails currently have the space to to do that and we're talking about I think the goal would DHS would would tell you that the goal would be to have these bets turn over for more quickly so we can get more people through the that are experiencing these episodes and sort of help regulate them from a medication standpoint or whatever they might be from evaluation or or just you know mental health support and what I say I just thank you again for work on and I thank when society realizes there's credibility in sentencing. It's gonna take a little bit forward actually I thank thank you some is like the difference is when they first asked is it state or is it federal correct when they realize it's real I'm hoping that we're going to sing some some changes thank you senator I think I think that's a great point I think that again this this bill is not the end all be all I'll be the first to tell you that having spent months with literally working on this legislation from late last year up until even today frankly this is not the end all be all this is I think a very good start that brings good balance from what we should do on being tough on crime for worst or worst offenders to also being considerate of those who may be seen to hand I hand up in life that have experience or made some bad mistakes or decisions and so I think this bill strikes a balance. Thank you senator I sent Gilmore will or will it be any extra community based providers. Added to this this bill. There sure these inmates of these inmates are provided with the. You know the appropriate training they need to get started I'll be after I think all options are on the table Senator okay I think we're giving flexibility to the department to utilize whatever resources they need to make sure these inmates are getting what they need. Okay Senate bill I think does that. The. This picking up on that what you just lastly it so we're just given carte Blanche Lynch to the department a check book. No no Senator I don't think that's what I said I said I think we're we're broadening the parameters under which they can work to make sure that they're providing the programming needing needed but clearly we still have to approve and we still have to control their budget so I don't think we're giving them a blank check well. On page sixty two. It. Repeal and. Section twelve twenty eight one of the three of the code which provides for cost impact statement. Bills that the General Assembly may propose. And bills that affect programs or services of the Department. So. So knoll regard to cost. In fact. Great question center and I know I completely disagree we are repealing this simply because they it's redundant language and it's this language specifically asked I believe the director of the department of correction to personally prepare or an appropriate cost impact statement we're we're in the bill is that on that same page Senator all of that page is pretty much repealed under that section one hundred yes center where is it you yes Senator if I may if I may clarify said that language that were striking where it says that a director department correction shall prepare it that's redundant language and it's actually the sentencing commission that prepares cost impact statements I think one of which is on your desk today is relates to this bill so the department of corrections quite frankly I shouldn't be preparing their own cost impact statements they're not doing it currently it's the sentencing commission is doing that and so repealing that language and if if you need to expound on that a little bit more please please do service from because it is a road did you say you're with the sentencing commission. At yes senator I am and that's part of the department of corrections usually it so the sentencing commission is administrative functions fall under the department of corrections but there is a board of nine members appointed by the governor and to advisory members from the legislature and they're the governing board they set the policies by which impact assessments are created so there is sort of some separation there. And so the sentencing commission then would. Recommend programs and cost I'm not programs within the division you know not necessarily eve behavioral health programs or something specific like that but it's more specifically changes to laws and how that would impact correctional resources you can see that the language remains if you'll flip over to page eighty lines three through eight that's the existing language that this bill does not amend. Well. actually is going to. Review. Programs. Our services of the Department. Hello does that. I'm so just depending on exactly what the program or services I think maybe what you're getting out its internal services programs anger management things like that those reviews are conducted by a doctoral level either employee or contractor. and I can find the citation for the. Which in just a minute it's not actually clearly stated in this bill so we'd be paying for a vendor or to tell us what. Services are programs. Should be provided for inmates for rehabilitation purposes that are. Not necessarily that I mean I think that could be the case if the department deems fit and they bring it before this legislative body and we deem fit as well but in the bill there but it would be somebody that didn't. Engaged in a doctoral program there after a doctor's degree no no ma'am we're rule what is road safe if I may clarify what she just said it I'd like for her to okay language. five. Certainly so there does have to be some experience it does say doctoral and I'll we'll find the page number on that it looks like a. Sorry this is a really big bill. page sixty five has what set out there that authorizes either an employee who has doctoral education level and experiencing in experience in assessing programming or a contractor with such and I think maybe in the past there's been some some work done with you a a lar and I you know that's the only one I can think of but this utilization of these partnerships with universities and other people who have experience in this arena. Well as I recall In years past. We we've tried to focus on evidence based programs. So. What we learned if anything and are we keep in any of it are we're just pass it off to a new group now that we're going to hire. No Senator I don't think we're pass it off to anybody I think what we're saying is someone who specifically trained in this at a doctorate level is going to be reviewing it in determining what best fits the needs of the inmate population that's what we're saying well that doesn't sound to me like what we have tried to focus on in the past with everybody brings up this term evidence based I mean we've traveled all over the United States and maybe some people went out of the country look for evidence based programs I don't know but it was much communication about it of evidence based programs what happened what we keep in if anything. Do you know ms riles. So senator from if I may or do you would you like for her to answer which either one of you all know I think what we're expecting is that they use evidence based programming and if you're having a doctorate level person review that that I'm assuming that they're going to be looking at peer reviewed programming or evidence to make sure that we are providing programming that best address the needs of the inmate population. So sounds like we're just re inventing the wheel. Can you tell me in the program that we've identified as evidence base that we're using now that we're about that throughout the window are at least get somebody in a doctoral program to pay them to look at it to make sure that it should be capped are may be thrown out. No Senator can identify any program we're gonna throw out the window. You can't what. It in in answering your questions I can't identify any programming that we're going to throw out the window. So then why do we. I mean. Well if I may further if I may first found senator I think what we're looking to do is expand whatever we need so your question was specifically what are we throwing out the window and I said I don't think we're looking to throw anything out the window I think we're looking to make sure that what we're doing is working and so if we're going to have if we're going to be providing programming we need someone with the educational expertise that can make sure that what we're doing is working and that is looking at peer review you know. Programming or or whatever might be to make sure we're meeting the needs of the inmate population. So would you say it is we have been doing that. What what I'm saying is Senator if I may is. We want to make sure we do it going forward and I want to make sure that we're incentivizing that from the standpoint of this bill and we're incentivizing are inmates to utilize programming that's that's currently existing or allow the department to add additional programming that is needed to make sure that what we're doing is going to help inmates outside the prison walls. May I ask you something. You know when I first started practicing law in that as I. Over the years started seeing criminal defendants and people moving in and out of the system. I became A custom to the use of the term institutionalize people. What do you think. The state of Arkansas is going to incentivize somebody that is. Get a place to sleep. Get some food to eat. When they don't have it on the outside. How in the world. Do you think. This term incentivise in terms of. An inmate. Philip incentivized to do something. Therefore eighty five percent of the time. What do you think is gonna happen what room in reality I mean can you even imagine this. Senator I that when we talk about the eighty five percent we're talking about the most heinous crimes committed and if you can see that list in the early pages the bill so just for the the public's knowledge I'll read some of the crimes are on the president it read those left may I finish answer I wish you would answer my question which is about ten percent to visitation on the part of an inmate well and again we're talking about specifically to your question on the eighty five percent these are people who have committed murder in the second sexual indecency with a child kidnapping battery in the first just to name a few that's on that list and so it the end of the day we want we want those most violent offenders to serve a time that fits the crime that they committed and so with that we're still assuming that they're gonna earn fifteen percent but when they earn fifteen percent we want to make sure that there's programming that fits their needs but also we don't want them to automatically get out just because they served eighty five percent we want to make sure that they're re rehabilitating themselves and that they have there's there's been it to use the word again we want to incentivize them to earn their way out because if you're earning something it probably means that your your lifestyle and your behavior is probably changing and so I think it's safe to say that that's what we want to do the other thing is we want to make sure that inmates going back to programming or prepared to be outside the prison walls are prepared to get a job or prepared to to meet the the needs of maybe their family that's why we have expanded visitation with inmates and their minor children that's why we have included things like providing them with birth certificates with work force training resit resumes if you will of what they've done while in incarceration that's why we've we've X. basically. Even more grace period on one senator you more but I make you are ignoring my question was about an inmate choosing to be incentivized after serving eighty five percent of their time now that lease fifteen percent more of the time they've spent eighty five percent of the time why wouldn't you think that you would consider it's easy enough for me to do fifteen more present and flatten out. Have you considered that. Yes center and that's why I'm telling you if if these inmates want to get out earlier the once you've committed the most heinous serious crimes against children against just people in general we want to make sure that we're not we're just releasing them because we can we want to make sure that we're releasing them because they've earned it and I think that's where your incentive comes out. What I'd I guess you'd I may not be communicating my point we'll. Which is. When you find somebody. That done eighty five percent of the time. It is faced with the choice of jumping through hoops. To get out. For the fifteen percent remaining on the time. In the in under some supervision subject to coming back. They might as well consider I'll just stay here. Let. This this doesn't make sense to me. But I just asked if you even consider that because there is such a thing as a person that Bills institutionalize. Senator Rapert you're your point is well made and I I think that not for tried to address your your point with my response well I don't think it but I have some other questions for enough you got somebody else on the list you know what let's look at a little bit okay well let me just ask you going to have one more and then I'll get back on the list if you don't mind. In terms of disposition of cases in the courts. After this bill takes effect. What do you envision their is it going to be The more efficient. In terms of getting these cases through the courts are what. What did not get down. I think it's safe to say and I'm I might even ask my colleague Brian Cooper who is a former prosecutor to even address is probably better than I can but I think it's safe to say that we're going to see as a result of this bill is the public's going to see real transparency as to sentencing in Arkansas and I think they're going to understand better that when you read a headline that someone is sentenced to four years currently that they're they're actually not serving anywhere probably close to that and so what I what I expect to see is a model that highlights the transparency as relates to truth in sentencing and I think that are prosecutors will do what they do so well and that's judge every every case and understand what they're charging their their these criminals with and understand that they're going to make the best decision going for but Mr Cooper Can you can you speak anymore that or or not actually I think not just the prosecutor I want to speak to it but the the defense lawyer ought to speak to it and and I'm assuming we will hear from from both today Senator. For the prosecutors say something I expect them to Senator yes ma'am. At the table. I think. I think the actual prosecutors that are there in the room with the with the coordinator's office will will probably be happy to address that those questions. Okay sent flowers for. Gonna go to the prosecutor no I I think I think asked and answered okay. What are. Senator Tucker you're recognized. Welcome back in just a minute sent flowers. Thank you Mr chair of some like to talk a little bit about my money for a minute So as I see this impact statement which I'm happy to have on page on the on the backside of it. The talks about the annual increase in population. so at the end of the ten year period it's got a project I guess this is a. As a. to set the context. And a lot of ways this will impact the prison population for a while because we're talking about people at the end of their sentences and in some cases long sentences so that is that is that a fair statement. I think that's a fair statement center if I may there's there's two effective date certains in this bill one is January one of twenty four and in others January one of twenty five so we're we are cognizant of the fact that any changes to the system could create challenges that need to be addressed so with that in mind for the sake of our prosecutors for the sake of our courts. Defense attorneys everyone involved in the in the picture we want to make sure that there's enough time to educate on how this changes the process that they know so well and so with that as the more specifically to your questions on the impact of miss bliss road better to address that green piece of paper and yeah and so again This I'm speaking very generally now but. If you want to fight anybody unless they're sentenced after January first of next year and if they're sentenced and they serve twelve years instead of ten there won't be an impact to the system until year eleven at that point I mean that that's is that basically fair and it's so yes it's based on the offense state not the Senate state but I think the general sentiment is correct there that it's going to be kind of what happens on the back okay thank you. So. this increase in population that we have. I have a few questions about that number one is in twenty thirty three the projected increase population as a for a fourteen hundred sixty five additional prisoners correct. Yes so my question about that is our current projection. For that time one if if this bill were not to pass is to have twenty six hundred and seventy seven more prisoners than we have now so it is this number fourteen sixty five above and beyond that twenty six seventy seven yes the way this projection is done it's actually based off the twenty twenty one projections but those were pretty close to twenty twenty two which I think is what you're probably referencing rather. So these numbers are the increase in population if this bill passes yes. And because of what I said earlier that the some of the impact may not happen until even further into the future could we expect that the projected increase in population from this legislation will be even more in the outgoing years after ten years so I think that after ten years modeling gets very speculative obviously you know the further you go out the more intervening changes there can be but yes there there probably would be some additional cost in later years okay. And then. On the far right column the annual limit cost that's the on going cost each year for the additional inmates so each line has in fact years this specific costs yes seven twenty thirty three they'll be an extra thirty four million to the budget that's correct and over the ten year period it's a hundred sixty three million that's correct we don't really ever expect those numbers to go down. I'm. We can't model those numbers going down because it's based on some some factors that we just can't really quantify right. WXOW. I got my mind wrapped around that where the one time costs associated with. Starting this process and that's gonna be construction cost and I do not have a background or any expertise in construction cost so I'm at a point that back over well and if I if I could address that at least she says construction cost that's the assumption of the prison build which was announced at the press conference yeah which is not in this bill right so I think that's a better question probably for the executive but obviously Senator is someone who sits on the budget committee he'll certainly have a voice in that yeah okay. So related because I think it's it's going to be a key part of it to money is the the situation with our correctional officers because right now we don't really have the ability to to staff the beds in our current system we have a forty four percent vacancy rate in the state forty seven percent turnover rate and what I heard for six weeks ago your may update me I don't know what her for six weeks ago that there was a seventy percent vacancy rate at the Tucker facility which meant that they actually closed a unit of three hundred votes so. We can make the point there is we have problems right now with our corrections officers and staffing the beds that we have now so what are we doing to change that I'm sure money is a part of it if so. What's the plan there and how much is that going to cost and then what else is there beyond just increasing pay for corrections officers thank you Senator I'll speak to that to what extent possible that I can is probably a better question for the Secretary corrections but what I know that since his very short short tenure in Arkansas as the brand new secretary I think he's worked very hard to look holistically at the system as it currently stands and and to your point specifically about the Tucker unit that has been discussed and I think that there's a plan from the executive branch to help address that and maybe even a I'd increase for corrections workers coming that is separate from this bill so I I can't speak to it more directly than that okay and I understand a sense of a bill or not we need to discuss this bill I appreciate that at the same time it will be an effective this legislation if it passes that we need more correctional officers there far enough I think one good or you're going to build a new facility as was announced and yes center you'll need people to staff. Okay so just to kind of wrap up I want to just get my mind around the just on the money gained don't get your hopes up again either. Just on the money I want to oppose the center. Want to wrap my mind around just could the total what do you think the total cost might be so we have the this we have of the specialty court's hopefully we're gonna be putting more money in to the programming they all mention which I totally support the mental health pilot program which I totally support that but I'm just curious if you all have an idea of kind of a total of fiscal impact beyond just what's on this syncing Commission impact assessment. Yeah look I think that's a fair for question and so I'll speak in general terms because I think that's more accurately addressed in the budget committee which you and I are both the member of and so we will see those proposals I think in the are saying those will be reflected there but I think the as I've already mentioned the specialty court would be someone the ballpark of about four million dollars that would be an increase to what's on that impact statement and then in addition to that there could be startup costs for the mental health pilot program which would be an additional two million and then there's also a component of this bill that includes an expansion to the prosecutors courthouse facility dog program which is a therapy dog for victims which I would argue is very important and discussing holistically criminal justice that you have to first and foremost I think speak directly to the victims and so they seen that program work they seen you know inmates who were minor children find comfort from having it just a dog in the room is their basic basically facing their accuser as a cosponsor constitutionally required to do Senator and so with that that would be around six hundred thousand dollar increase there so with with those numbers I think you're you're close to may be maybe a ten million that's just ballpark in addition but I think very much needed as you pointed out mental health pilot program obviously is a good program. Diverting people there specially courts certainly I think is necessary and then off the obviously the court out all House dog program is very important to the overall planned this bill. Okay thank you I'm asking you questions about kind of the percentages now okay The New we need to take a coming back and if you want to recognize Senator flowers you're recognized. Thank you. Senator Tucker can that throws off my. His way doing that Senator. Well. You don't do a bad job. My apologies Senator. You talked about when you responded to Senator Tucker about the construction of a new prison. You said that's not in this bill correct center. Is there a going to be another bill or is it strictly just an appropriation that as I understand that will be more an executive office office function through appropriation that this body would still need to have approval on but that would not be it's certainly not in this bill and that would be more appropriate through I think the budget committees and perhaps even A. L. C. in the interim. So the legislature. Does it need to have a bill. That would authorize construction of the new presents. No no Sir that's not what I'm saying what I'm saying is there's a whole separate procedure that I know you you know well no I don't that's what I'm asking you well I then then that would be through the executive branch to indicate that to the legislative body such as the Budget Committee probably through a request for appropriation and that will be done through that process on a L. C. isn't no substantive bill from the legislature other than a budget appropriation is that what you're saying for the construction no I think there would be required to have a budget bill but again center that that has nothing that that prison expansion is not a part of this legislation here today. And to your knowledge you you don't know of another bill that exist right now in this section I do not. That provides for new construction I do not. So if we don't appropriate. Money for new construction. We have this. Bill if it passes. That will provide four hundred percent. Service of time. Eighty five percent. Grinds it will we put them. If there is no such new facility. Well senator there's as I've talked about the effective dates of the bill the effective date for the hundred percent is January one twenty four so that's next year hi and and the impact of that as you can see on your green piece of paper there you can see the amount of bets needed to do that I anticipate that there being an increase in some additional capacity with within the department of corrections to accommodate the few additional beds needed as related to that impact statement but soon Senator Gilmour was sent to my just interrupt just for a second here because you're just throwing stuff out here. And I know in my county. We're holding inmates for the department of corrections now that have already been sentenced. So where is this additional space. The governor the governor announced earlier this week the intentions to build three thousand a capacity again that is not in this bill. And I anticipate the governor will be working with the legislature to get that additional capacity brought online as as we go forward so I think it's seven will have some appropriation for a new facility that's going to house three thousand inmates is that what you're saying. A center I think is you know well that could be a possibility or could happen in the interim through a LC. Through a L. C.. We're gonna appropriate. How much is three hundred and forty some million dollars for construction of a new prison for housing people to serve a hundred percent of their time at eighty five percent of the time is that what you're saying. Center I'm saying that the possibility for that exists under the rules as you know wealth of A. L. C. and the governor could make request of that nature so that that is it you know well I do not no way all. I'm wondering if you will. What makes no sense to me center for if I may you're asking you're asking questions as real as it relates to things outside of the bill that's being heard today that involves executive office functions so I can't speak to what the executive office and the governor plans to do other than what they announced. I guess you're saying. The legislature. Has no part in this we just allow the executive branch. To build jails and prisons and take the money without. Any kind of consult. Our bills from the legislature. Senator I get your point I think of clearly stated the opposite of that effect but I I your point is well taken. Okay so. Give me a couple. I want to know. About. Re entry bed so that you mentioned. Early on. How many exist now. And how many are plan for the future. So there are I think several hundred exists now I don't have the act the exact number but the one of the things that we've heard is they're not being utilized to the extent possible so we have open reentry beds now as I understand this bill at has a function in it with language that allows for the department to better utilizes bids by increasing the the population of which they can pull or or or look at inmates that meet the criteria to go into the re entry votes and so we expect the reentry bets to be better utilized. I ask you this because the E. you drew up this bill is that correct. Yes ma'am I had I had lost a lot of work involved in this bill along with others. Did you consult with the board of paroles. The department of correction. Department correction yes ma'am and and parole board members that. I have I have looked at this bill as I understand or at least former ones have to look at this bill and I think that there's been a lot of people look at this bill over the course of many months of the bill. I'm sorry did they help you write the bill did who helped me write the bill the board of parole no ma'am they did not help me write the bill the department of correction help you write the bill the department correction did not have the right the bill miss miss row who's at the table with the sentencing commission had input and Mr Cooper from the AG's office who is a former prosecutor had input as well as representative Gazaway who is a big part of this as well. So you didn't consult with anybody at the department of corrections in terms of. Recommendations are advice only evidenced based programs that they have in place now the Department have been studying over the years since we decided to come up with the idea that we need to deal with evidence based program so no ma'am that's not what I'm saying I'm saying that the department of corrections was consulted but they didn't personally write the bill as I think was more directly what you stated but yes they were consulted. Did you speak to them about the evidence based programs you we spoke about evidence based programs we spoke about programming as relates to the language in this bill we talk about programming that currently exist yes ma'am they were they were that all of that was discussed did you speak to them about the make up of the inmate population now as it relates to. Evaluation for Mental health needs yes ma'am our physical health needs yes ma'am what did you find the that the language that's in this bill is needed to address and broaden parameters to better help and and address the needs of the inmate population so would you point to what language in the bill. Helps with mental health. A issues. That face these inmates are facing now. All health needs that inmates face now I get letters routinely from inmates family members saying they don't have the medicines they need their medicines so we're in this bill are you dealing with that. You'll give me just a moment here senator on page sixty five we've already sort of talked about that as it relates to assessments that will need to be done there's family considerations that I've talked about and if you give me one second I will find and these are the assessments by these doctoral level education candidates. well I don't I don't know if candidate would be if the appropriate the doctoral level person someone who is expected to have a doctoral degree. If you go to page seventy Senator you'll see for talks about family considerations and in may placement as it relates to visitation we talk about making sure that there's increased visitation to two inmates on page sixty nine right before that you'll tell you'll see where we talk about Inmates who are pregnant and how we deal with impose parliament allowing an additional time to spend with their newborn child and we give flexibility the department that they don't currently have to make sure that a a pregnant inmate who's given birth is allowed to spend additional bonding time with their child what about the mental health of the inmates how is that going to be accomplished in terms of assessing. There needs. Tell me this this kind of help me to understand and the public to understand how how is that going to be determined and then what type of therapy or treatment can we expect for them to be receiving because it seems to me that you would if you want them to come out. rehabilitated are ready to re enter society. Without breaking more walls. You would you would want to know. How are you going to accomplish that if they have these situations that the out of their control who is the doctoral level educated person is that going to be who is that gonna be that makes this assessment and who is going to be treating them and how much is it going to cost. So there's a there's treatment already one the the department corrections has contracts for the health and well being of inmates I think the department can speak to that better than I can that doesn't change in this bill about that it's center if I may let me inject limit let me interject your. Senator flowers. Let let me ask your senate Gilmore finished before you cut him off. Because I'd like to hear what he has to say what for you cutting off let him finish his I understand that I'd like for him to answer my question though I agree but let him finish his Leding well if you will rebound will is upon me asking him questions if he's not be rich man's can you let him finish your sample I hopefully he'll be responsive okay. Thank you Mr chairman Senator I think I think I've tried to be as responsive of the candy you're questioning as I was about to continue on before I was interrupted on page seventy one we talk about training and technical assistance of some of that relates to parenting classes some of that relates to prenatal care we talked about the doctoral level assessment of someone who's going to have a doctorate degree to assess programming we've we've talked about that it links as I mentioned the department corrections has contracts for the health and well being of their inmates currently in the population again the department and the secretary or anyone from corrections is is better qualified to speak to that as it currently exist so all through this bill as I've probably I've restated numerous times the well being of the inmate is all through this bill in making sure that they have what is needed to address with and better prepare them for getting outside the prison walls. This is a follow up and then you can send it back to whoever else is on the list. Thank you Sir you can say and we already have programs in existence. With this re writes everything. So what's the point. Senator you're right this for this re writes a lot and what we're doing is we're removing restrictions like I I pointed to just a second ago the the reforms as relates to a pregnant inmate post post partum with her newborn child yes there are things that currently exist right now that allow her to spend time with a newborn child we're expanding that out so that is that is a prime example to answer your question more specifically if things that we're doing we are bringing in additional reforms to what is currently the criminal justice system. Senator Tucker you. You're back in the loop you're recognized if you'll have me. Thank you Mr might do so. Okay so we'll talk a little bit about the percentages they are talking about before and and first so I just wanna clarify the change from the current system because we've heard a lot. Of indictment of the current system I I agree that that we need reforming our crime rates to but in the current system the jury is informed. Of Wednesday during the sentencing process of when the person who's just been convicted will be eligible for parole correct. As I understand it Senator you're more qualified to speak that that I am. So if they want someone to serve four years and they know they're gonna be eligible after a third. They can do that math and sentence him to twelve that's what they choose effectively in the current system. I think that's fair I would also point out that the folks who were sentenced under you know a sense of sex assault to is technically what falls under a one six crime now so the Max of that since I believe it's twenty years and typically what's being service one six of that. Okay. And what category that moving into with this bill. I would anticipate that moving into through real promulgation being in the fifty percent category okay. Sorry I would ask about the hundred percent for a moment in the federal system which was kind of the. One that broke the dam on truth in sentencing they topped out at eighty five percent rather than go all the way to a hundred percent and they're really two primary reasons for that. the first is because if you're told you have no chance of reducing your time and what incentive do you have for good behavior while you're in and you know there there are other possible incentives where you're going to server or whatnot but but by and large the number one incentives is and ability to get out early the amount of time you're going to serve and so why go. Two hundred percent rather than state eighty five which is where the federal government as and other states have enacted that not every state I'm I'm not. Projecting that but most states it's it's pretty rare to go all the way to a hundred percent because you still want to allow for some prospect for reduced time and the incentive for good behavior for that so what what's the thought process there. Well I think thought process is center to your question the people that we're talking about that would be fall into the hundred percent category are I think. Not Nestle arguably but most certainly the worst of the worst as you can read on on Page two there were talks about those crimes and you're very familiar with what I was most most members of the committee are we're talking about you know sexually grooming a child we're talking about murder in the first we're talking about kidnapping Act raw trafficking of persons things are very heinous crimes the sentences that need to be appropriate to the crimes that they have committed would fall in the hunt percent category and the assumption of that is that these are criminals who by some by very definition or are prone to repeat their crimes especially as it relates to sexual crimes against children and so with that we assume that they are better locked away from our communities that we want to keep safe our families that we want to keep safe and in an environment that is absolutely geared and built for dealing with these violent offenders and the most quite frankly heinous criminals among us. You do agree that they have very little incentive for good behavior with a one hundred percent. Mark on their sense. I would agree that they are they're gonna be serving a sentence is that fits their crime in an environment that is not conducive for that violence to be perpetrated against more people. I'll take that as a yes. But the second reason is that the feds another's top out at eighty five percent is biscuit because to your point or talk about the most violent offenders here the most absolutely the most heinous criminals and we don't want them walking out of prison being in a maximum security facility one day and then just walking out the next day with no post release supervision. And when you serve a hundred percent then you're that's what you're risking now I understand that there's a mechanism first I constitutional concerns about this because you can't have supervision as part of your sentence if you have a present president that how are you gonna have any supervision after release but I understand there's a mechanism of the bill after after I looked at it that allows for as part of the sentence for the since not not adding additional time to which they were educated corrected the court can add post release supervision time I'm correct about that. Yes I'll I'll deferred any attorneys they could better address the the exception to that is it can't go beyond the maximum statutory sentence that's correct so for example if the maximum statutory sentences twenty years. Or or or whatever forty years for a Class Y. felony right and this person's crime was particularly heinous. They're going to serve their forty years in prison and there's zero opportunity for post release supervision for that person. Assuming all the the statement that you made or or are true that they've been since the Max X. cetera what I would point out is I would rather have the most violent offenders that are on this list who are most which are maybe sentence but not not gonna end up serving near that sentence that they're given quite frankly under the current system should be locked away with some guarantee that during the the course the sense that they're given they're not going to inflict more violence on our communities and and in some cases go back and harass and intimidate the victims or their families that they have realized. okay what. On page eight and this is kind of related to capacity issue that we were talking about earlier. That first paragraph. Yes Senator one four three seven. Folks are going to be eligible for either a fifty percent or seventy five percent reduction of their term of imprisonment So my question and then it says that's going to be determined. By the sentencing commission and by LC correct. Well that not have a significant impact of it I mean that's going to be most of the of the inmates correct. And so whether they are eligible for a fifty percent reduction or seventy five percent reduction will that have a big impact on on this projection. But I'll let her speak the projection but that would be included in that projection yes so that change is included in the production that's on your green sheet if I could just take a minute to kind of walk through what that process looks like and then point to an additional place in the bill so after each legislative session even as is right now and the sentencing commission gathers the sentencing commission is comprised comprised of judges prosecutors defense attorneys citizen representatives and the advisory members appointed by the legislature I'm it's pretty representative I think our criminal justice system and they gather after each legislative session and consider rankings seriousness level rankings for criminal offenses that were changed modified anything that's identified that might need to be reconsidered Right now the determination is made and just based on seriousness level their eligible after serving either one third or one half of their sentence and that can be further reduced by good time that process wouldn't see a meaningful change just from mechanic's perspective they're still going to consider you know where that line needs to be drawn and then additionally you know what needs to be ranked above and below that line I anticipate that there's going to be more work just because of the changes in what fits a statutory role but there is additionally later in the bill some language that requires the commission to evaluate what are statutory ranges and presumptive ranges look like in consideration of any you know changes to the release eligibility loss. Okay. I'd like to speak for a minute about the effect of sentence length. The impact that has on crime rate. So in Arkansas right now we have the I think about the fourth while hi Smalling prime rate in the country. And our. Average time incarcerated if it's not at the top it's a very near the top and I just want to give you an example of what I'm talking about this is not ever come across the board but I'm looking at some data compiled by the national highly reliable nonprofit nonpartisan organization that defied three crimes aggravated and simple assault robbery and drugs and they compared us to six other states so a total of seven states in the pool the other states or Texas Florida Missouri Alabama common Louisiana so similarly situated states and on all three of those crimes Arkansas was number one on average since link For aggravated simple assault our average sentence length is thirty two months. Louisiana our neighbor to the south ever since like the twenty one months. Go to robbery Arkansas's number one average sentence length of eighty two months of Florida ever since like the fifty month so about two and a half years less than Arkansas. On on drugs. Arkansas averages since Lincoln's thirty one months and Missouri Alabama to nearby states there ever since lands for drug offenses and that's where it's the primary offense is twelve months so Arkansas is two and a half times the sentence length for these neighboring states. beyond that these crimes have gone the average sentence length and Arkansas for these crimes has gone up significantly already since the last decade twenty eight percent higher for assault twenty four percent higher for robbery thirty two percent higher for drugs. Some of my question is we're already at the top for average sentence length. Crime rates going up. It hasn't worked there are other strategies for reducing crime so why and there's a lot of good in this bill but the thrust of it is we need to lock these folks up for longer. and we've already been doing that and as the Attorney General noted in his opening comments are our system is not working and instead of. I to figure out alternatives we're just pulling that lever even harder and my question is why are we doing why is that going to be our approach. So that's a very broad questions Senator so I'll do my best to answer that you certainly big three some crimes from surrounding states everything else I think one of the things that that I would say to all of that is when looking at the actual amount of time served we have we have a recidivism rate of probably close to fifty percent in the forties perhaps forty six come back within three years there you go so thank you for that I thought I was close so. I think you could argue that were not preparing inmates to be outside this prison walls and so with that I think this bill very much strikes that balance of doing that and one of things that I would point to in the very last pages of this bill is something that you you senator Burke requested be in the bill that we've we've talked about and and that's a recidivism task force of what I'd to speak you to actually be a member of when when implemented I hope so I hope so as well I think that you have think that a good partner through this process of bringing suggestions and working through what we've seen work in other states but I think that. You know. There needs to be perhaps a secular rations can speak to this more if he does end up or you choose to having come to the table maybe on the predictability of amount of time they're going to spend for programming and planning on on this and what what that looks like for inmates who are earning their way out and therefore ultimately changing lifestyle and behavior an overall behavior for when they get out of prison so again I think we're striking a good balance senator. So I totally agree with you on the recidivism and thank you for putting that language in the bill and I just I want to give you credit for that that language in the bill thank you you thank you we have a question other any individual questions okay we put you back okay I thank Mr. Senator Hester. Thank you senator more I appreciate all the work you've done on this and I'm I'm super happy to be support of this bill I was this point I was very hopeful that we can have a lot more of these crimes in the hundred percent even more the eighty five percent but I understand budget constraints we we ratchet that back but I think I refer you woods would most people Arkansas would say we hope more of these violent offenders are would stay locked up for longer amounts of times you know when when you consider the failures of you know places like Seattle Los Angeles New York weather just releasing these criminals back out which not safety even go down the streets or be around I mean did you consider the failures absolute catastrophic failures of the cities when you're writing this bill for Arkansas to keep us safe. Absolutely Senator I think it's a really great question because what we've seen a lot of and the Attorney General mentioned that specifically to that was a spreadsheet that's been compiled over the last six months or so and on that spreadsheet is around two hundred of just of just the ones that caught from reading news headlines two hundred or so violent crimes committed by violent offenders who were out on parole as we currently know it these are people who Fite quite frankly probably shouldn't be out at all some of which probably got out before they were they could complete programming that they should complete that hopefully will help change behavior um and and with that this bill I think would reduce that recidivism rate for these repeat violent offenders and quite frankly center to more to more specifically address your question I don't want Arkansas to look like some of the states that you referenced and just this week when this bill was announced you know we had acts of violence committed in Little Rock and people were killed people lost their lives that's families who lost loved ones and I think when you look at a piece of legislation like this we often times perhaps even ignore the victims them countless victims that have been victimize and have dealt with loss as a result to a of a failure of a system our system failure that quite frankly has ignored for far too long the overall issues and so more specifically to your question Senator I yes we looked at that and we we felt like the list is compiled in the early pages of this bill we took a took care of and dealt with the worst of the criminals that that we see.