Public Health, Welfare and Labor Committee- House

so with that I'm happy to answer any questions. On my resolution. Are there any questions by committee. Is there anyone in the audience signed up to speak for or against the resolution. Would like to close for resolution I am close by resolution thank you very much committee and after thank you representative will urge. We have a motion to passes or any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Opposed no. Congratulations your resolution has passed representative Richardson. Thank you Committee. Now we will hear House resolution ten seventy four by representative more. If you identify yourself you are recognized. Good morning can do more district twenty three. Thank you madam chairman and I'm honored to bring you in House resolution ten seventy four to recognize April eleventh as children's advocacy center day. Representative fight representative Vaught have been the sponsors of children's advocacy centers in the past and I'm honored to join them to present this resolution child advocacy centers play a significant role in the service and protection of Arkansas children there are thirty children advocacy centers here in Arkansas and in twenty twenty two they served over ten thousand families these centers act as advocates for our children during their most difficult times. And I would appreciate your support of this resolution in recognition of children's advocacy centers. Are there any questions by committee. Representive Shepherd you're recognized for a question motion at the proper time thank you. Any questions is there anyone in the audience signed up to speak for or against the resolution. We're going to close your resolution I am close for a resolution thank you. Representive shepherd you're recognized. Thank you have a motion to pass any discussion on the motion all in favor say aye. Pose no. Congratulations your resolution has passed thank you madam chair thank you Committee. Representative painter you're recognized thank you manager like to make a motion. Explain your motion please motion an amendment one to HB fifteen seventy by which it passed be expunged. Thank you have a motion to expunge the amendment which has already been adopted for house bill fifteen seventy. For any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye opposed no. Thank you for that motion and now we will go to representative brown and here here house bill fifteen seventy. This. This is the and you do have another amendment correct yes okay thank you madam chair committee by representative brown if it was just a second let us get that Amendment will deal with the amendment first okay. Committee does not have it yet if the. The thank you so. Thank you. What you. This would. This state. Thank you. Okay thank you represent a brand you may proceed with your amendment. Thank you madam chair representative Karilyn Brown. I'm here today to speak on house bill fifteen seventy and to present An amendment the following are discussion in committee the other day I realize that there's still a lot of concern so I believe that I have stripped out everything that was concerning to the people on the committee and I'll be putting that in the interim study. so the title or the sub this is subject the subtitle now completely removed any mention of of obtaining medical records. Is no nothing in this bill now requires medical records. And although. There is no prohibition in Arkansas law for people to receive medical records or to receive a second opinion it seems that some of the statutes are all over the place and that would kind of need to look at it and see what we can do to clarify things so that when parents and attorneys are needing this information is just a little bees bit easier to access access and an access in a way that protects. Children and families so with that said basically this is just a cleanup bill the main thing that remains is that in. Section one. The on page two about lines of fourteen through twenty two all it does is add a little more general language to describe the types of conditions that parents are I guess alleged of. Offenders of the conditions that someone who is. Charged with being offender I have used a little more general terms to describe the conditions and then listed these things that I. I have a four as examples of those types of conditions okay representative brown are you speaking on the amendment on the bill. I guess I'm speaking on both okay well actually we need to address the amendment first okay. All right I've. I've spoken about that which we took out the controversial things took out everything about. Court orders and getting records all of that I'm just cleaning up my original bill so are you ready for questions on your amendment. Yes okay are there any questions by committee on the amendment representative pain you're recognized make a motion at the proper time for the amendment okay. Any other questions. anyone here to speak for against the amendment would like close your amendment I'm closed. Entertainer motion do pass on the imminent I have a motion to pass on the amendment to house bill fifteen seventy all in favor say aye. Opposed no. Thank you know you may proceed with house bill fifteen seventy. The only change that remains to quit this law is that I have used for general language to describe the conditions that might That could be. trying to think the word of. A different. A different diagnoses that is similar symptoms could be caused from abuse or could be caused by a medical can medical ge or genetic condition so when those conditions exist parents. Need to know that they're allowed to get a second opinion and then these these conditions rickets Ehlers Danlos osteogenesis imperfecta vitamin D. deficiency in vitamin K. deficiency are all just examples. So are you ready for questions yes ma'am other questions by the committee representative Wilder to recognized thank you madam chair the representative so I'm I'm trying to make sense of the amendment I'm looking at the amendment says Page two delete lines seven through thirteen so when I look at the bill eleven through thirteen was some of the concerns that I had originally so that was where it said an alleged offender could ring regardless of whether the alleged victim of been taken into custody or not. Request the records so I don't see what replaces that so who request the records now what's that process like what I've left all that out I just there's no there's no stipulation in the legislation about requesting records follow up. So what's the point of the legislation and if no one can request the records the whole point of the legislation initially was to to tell parents they could get a second opinion particularly under these conditions one more follow up you're recognized so can they still do that. Yes hello who gets the records. There's no stipulation into legislation about the records none none whatsoever. So anyone can still get them. Force records. My law doesn't change amount of legislation doesn't change anything that's currently in law. Okay. Thank you representative payee recognized for a question thank you madam chair so does those records then did they just sit out there kind of follow up on a represent will ridge question or does go to the parent or provider or to the victim where they go my legislation does not deal with the records that is why I'm going to go to interim study because parents are not for. Prohibited from getting records that it judges can still court order records that they can all take place it's just seems to be kind of a confusing come bomber of elation of laws and nobody you know there's a lot of the attorneys without a lot of experience that don't know that they can do these things and so I'm going to we're going to go into interim study and see what we can do to clean this up and make it a little clearer what role DHS plays what role the judge plays a role parents play an and how to how to proceed with this in a more methodical way. Representative you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair thank your reserve brown for your hard work on this and for talking to people I have a quick question as far as we had lots of folks that were in here the other day was concerns from children advocacy center have you spoken with them and where are they on this bill this point I have not spoken with them but this is already legislation that was on the record and I have I've taken everything out that they they were concerned about I re listened to their testimony and there's nothing in here I mean. Quincy's lots Quincy's Law I just cleaned up some of the language to make it a little to provide a little more general language to describe the conditions and then used what was. In the original Quincy's law as examples of what those conditions are. Are there any other questions by committee representative will urge you're recognized thank you madam chair of the questions of the chair as a freshman I guess I don't understand the process of what we're trying to accomplish here will this need to pass a committee if there's no changes to then go to interim study or what are we what we try to accomplish what that was my question next to you representative brown is did I hear you say early on that you are wanting this as amended to go down to interim study now I don't want it as amended to go to inner and study I want the amendment is just clean up language on Quincy's law the way it was and then all this discussion about records and court orders in of all of that. That's going to go to interim study just wanted to have some clean up language in Quincy's Law so which is your desired you're bringing this bill as normal to be voted on and voted out of committee and to the House is your desire yes place just for cleanup language that's all this bill will deal with now. Thank you representive fight you're recognized okay I'm I'm very confused and I realize I was few minutes late it was getting from retirement committee you keep saying interim study it's it's going to interim study or it's not going to inner study I have not. Britain had that part written All I Want to do today is process some clean up language on Quincy's Law and then I will I've been told I do not have to present the interim study in this committee today I do not have to do that I can do it later so I'm going to do it later we were all not all not so. Jammed up with other things because it's my understanding that you took out anything that dealt with getting records at our act that's gone that's not an issue anymore not for this legislation. Are there any other questions by committee. It's just some clean up language. Is there anyone signed up to speak for this bill. Against. I would like to close for your bill I'm closed. What's the will of the committee. Motion to pass. We have a motion do pass by representative may very all in favor say aye. Opposed no. I'm sorry representative brown your bill has failed. Thank you. Next let's see is represented McCollum here anywhere did he come in while I was okay. To my understanding the representative woman has also not presenting house bill seventeen sixteen. Representative Hodges. In the audience anywhere. Representative representative rye. Is he still over there and he is coming back okay representative Vaught would you like to present house bill seventeen seventy five. If you will identify yourself then you will be recognized. Thank you madam chair damn Vaught District eighty seven still getting used to the new number and I'm set on the ground so I got to fix this. Maybe fix it. Thank you madam chair for allow me to go ahead present my bill House Bill. Seventeen seventy five a. Is a I think a pretty amazing bill we're going to allow a state employees that actually take in foster children to be able to use forty hours of their sick days to help care for foster children right now they can't use those sick days to do that and you know if you know anything about foster care the first forty eight hours is pretty strange when there's a lot of things that need to be done in that first forty eight hours so that we able to use sick days to be able to do that first forty eight hours and if you look on page two it gives you a list of things that they can use it for and who is available who can receive it who can't so that bonding with the child for the adjustment purposes these are things that can be used for attending school placement meetings related to changes due to foster care placement attending individual individualized educational program meetings related to due to the foster care placement attending route required court hearings and attending required case planning activities These cannot so they either use them for this order and they don't carry over to the next year so there's no carry over if they don't use that for those hours in that year then that starts back over the next year And I guess the employee that is it is available for catastrophic leave for maternity purposes for the placement of an infant under one years of age the foster care leave with pay that is granted under this section of this that is unused again shall not carry over to the cat next calendar year so. I think it's a pretty great deal for us to do for our state employees especially if they're willing to help us with foster children this is a way that they can use their hours that benefit them the most. And what I'm closed. Are there any questions by committee. The represented by you're recognized thank you madam chair my question is is this forty days of sick leave per foster child because we know that many families take a child and then maybe three or four months later they have a different placement and then a couple of months later they have a different placement so does it start over each time as they have a new foster child no man as forty hours not forty days so they don't get forty days they only get I'm sorry I said days amid hours to the hour start over with each child no ma'am it does not so the totals the total yes ma'am okay thank you I like it. Representative Stommel you're recognized for a question. Thank you madam chair. Is there are something in in code where they are allowed to use for adoption as well. We know that for a fact or not. I don't know. I'm looking at somebody behind me trying to see if they know. I think they're coming with me yeah. Sorry madam chair I wasn't expecting that question I would have the answer. They're looking. What we have and we can we can wait on that okay. You're welcome back to that and move on and come back to a question. Yes his manager thank you senator you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair I'm just quick questions to make sure I understand the forty hours is part of the sick leave that they already have halau in them to use it in this manner yes ma'am thank you. The representative will urge. She got your question okay are there any other questions by committee. Even listen or dance for us they're still getting. Now we representative. Yes we can continue without that question I don't want to hold a committee here sure okay yes manager of. Maybe she can address it in her closing if they get there in time. Maybe they can just come down to the table. Yes please I'm sorry that I didn't know the answer that's okay just have your guests recognized or so please. Good morning Kristin her for the Division of Children and Family Services and specific to the catastrophic leave there is current law that allows the placement of an adopted child and N. as in the home of the employee now there is a nother bill Senate bill four twenty six and is running that will clarify that is for under one year of age and that allows for the catastrophic leave up to twelve weeks. Are there any other questions by committee. Is there anyone signed up to speak for or against this bill. I would like to close for your bill I'm close not appreciated do pass. President of car you're recognized I make a motion to pass I have a motion to pass is there any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Lows NO. Congratulations your bill is passed thank you madam chair thank you Committee thank you committee for your patience there. Okay. Has represented have come in and I missed him no okay then represented Fuhrman are you ready to present Senate bill four await. If you will identify yourself then you will be recognized. Thank you madam chair Tony Furman District eighty two this is Senator pens those bill he's an education running another bill I have a. Under this bill for about five minutes so he has a witness prepared to testify so with your permission to call budget P. triple the table yes just have been recognized and so please. Good morning madam chair thank you my name is Jay P. trouble I am an adoption and family information attorney here in Little Rock so ahead senator pence's bill is essentially a cleanup bill I'll go over the broad strokes of that nine am available to answer specific questions if the committee has any first of all for the adults for adulthood options bill does two things it removes the withdrawal period for an adult adoptee in their spouse to consent to that adults adoption. And it removes the requirement for an adult adoptee to list their own assets in the petition. for minors the bill removes the six month waiting period to finalize the adoption if it is a private adoption of a child who is six months or younger so effectively recently born child it also gives birth parents the option to allow their information to be disclosed in the health history and genetic social history currently the law requires that information to be non identifying and this will allow the person who's disclosing the information whether they want to be identified or not and the reason for that does it a lot of open adoptions it's actually a misdemeanor at this point for any person to disclose their identity an adoption and this will allow in an open adoption where the parties know their identities as well to disclose that in court pleadings the Bill also removes the requirement to check the putative father registry into very specific instances where it is not necessary one of those would be for example in an out of state adoption. Where the adoption the child is born out of state the adoption finalizes in Arkansas but for example Arizona and. Requires a termination of parental rights to occur there so the case goes to court in that state parental rights are terminated the child then comes to Arkansas for the finalization hearing here which is the best interest portion if the parental rights have already been terminated there's no reason to check the putative father registry in the other case would be where there's what's called the second place adoption second placement which is where there is an adoption that has occurred in the past so in other words there's a court order that says who the parents are there would be no punitive father in that instance if those people are consenting to a further adoption. The registry is not required to be consulted the last thing it does is appealed to section that effectively was. Appealed and rendered null and void in it was act an act in nineteen ninety five. Because it conflicts with the law that was passed at that time. So with that be happy to entertain any more specific questions. Other questions by committee. You Mr done an expert job. Thank you mayor anyone here signed up to speak for this bill. Against this bill. Read a close for your bill I'm closing on a motion to pass. We have a motion to pass a representative Furman any discussion on the motion. All in favor say aye. Opposed no. Congratulations you have passed Senate bill four oh eight thank you committee and senator Penzo thanks to thank you venture thank you madam chair. Ston representative Hudson are you ready to run house bill eighteen eleven. If you will recognize yourself and have your guests we will take up your amendment first. My on thank you madam chair representative Vivian flowers is here she's my coach co sponsor on this bill and we have an amendment for you today that I things getting passed out on H. B. eighteen eleven this it just sets out a little bit more specificity as to when a foster family is entitled to have counsel and with them and in the course of sort of this process of of transferring a foster child from one temporary placement to another and then the second side second part of the amendment is just making that same language match up in another part of the bill. Are there any questions on the amendment. And anyone here speak for against the amendment. The Amendment. What's the will of the committee. Yes. Thank you have a motion to pass on the amendment all in favor say aye opposed no. Congratulations you pastor Amendment and are recognized to present house bill eighteen eleven. Thank you madam chair colleagues at eighteen eleven is a bill that sets out the procedure for how transfers of foster children from either one foster home to another or other temporary placement should work and we've got a number of people who are here who want to testify on this but here's where this bill came from from representative flowers and I representative flowers and I were approached at between the session last by a foster parent who had experiences some some significant issues within the system and and what we discovered after talking to that one foster parent is that these issues are being repeated over and over again in various parts of the state so it's not limited to a single county or a single case worker DHS attorney and what we found is that foster parents often find themselves in a situation in which the child that they've been fostering for a long term period of months and months sometimes even years is suddenly picked up by DHS and transferred out of their home either to another temporary placement or to an adoptive couple without notice in some cases this is resulted in the child being taken from the home without their medication or without their clothes and in some cases we've had situations in which the foster family had been open to adoption had been assessed and approved for adoption and but still had this this child taken from their home again without notice and perhaps more alarming them were some of the discussions we had with foster families in which they told us that they had sought legal counsel in order to help them navigate what is I'm sure everyone in here increases a confusing system and had been retaliated against for doing so and so what we wanted to do with this bill is ensure that foster families knew that they had right to counsel they had a right to counsel that access to counsel and couldn't be retaliated against and given the fact that right now our staff. Jute doesn't really clarify that we felt at least having and and new part of the code and explaining what those rights are and when they kick and would be helpful to ensure that the rights of the foster families are protected and what is a difficult system to navigate the bill also creates some requirements for ad notice in any hearing in certain cases for non emergency temporary placement so nonemergency trick placements from one foster home to another foster home and and in those situations this would not be motion motion and and a hearing in a situation which a foster child's being transferred back to their parents and this would only be from one temporary placement to another the reason for that again it's just to ensure that we are compounding trauma on the foster child by taking them from a long term placement suddenly without any notice and moving them to another often with strangers and to ensure that as far as the transition goes in terms of foster children who may and have medication or disabilities and require a little bit of a heads up for that foster family hand off to to occur and so that that child needs can be cared for without any interruption and I'm in represented flowers had may have some more to ask but and but I'm happy to answer any questions and I know we have a few families here who want to speak. I think questions by committee representative pain you're recognized for a question thank you madam chair so you mentioned in your testimony issues with DHS to from different county can you can you kind of specify what kind of issues that you're having or that you for sure and and I think that some of the families who came to speak will will speak to their own experiences with and give you more detail and but again we've we've heard of issues where a foster child was was moved without any notice to the foster family in a couple of cases that we've heard where that a case worker came really without warning on weekends at night there was one situation which a foster mother was out of town on a business trip and was called while she was standing in the middle of an airport and until that they were taking the care they're her child right then and without any sort of notice that all that that was happening or that it was even being contemplated and that really seems to be the biggest problem that we're seeing just that that there's there's no notice at all and and and in the code as it is now there is a requirement that the foster families get notice but it's not happening or in some cases it's happening so informally and it doesn't really constitute a true notice where somebody says we're going and you know we're going to come and take this child and it's not writing it doesn't give any sort of time frame for timeline for when that's going to occur follow up. How often does DHS then based on your tears testimony to show up without notice. I mean I think it be difficult to quantify that it's happening often enough that Senator Davis and then representative flowers and I have all heard multiple cases of it we represent pretty pretty diverse parts of the state so it's certainly happening enough that enough of the foster families are able to reach out to their representatives and senators and because we know that not everyone knows how to do that right so and it's happening enough when within the frequency that we're seeing this as non going issue I also spoke with a couple of attorneys who regularly do represent foster families and and who have told me that in their own practices they're seeing this more and more one more follow up the manager just just to make sure I heard you correct. There's already in law that they have to DHS's they have to give foster families parents a notice when they're coming to get that child correct there is there is a part that does require notice but the notice is not being given properly and it's not giving enough of a lead time as far as like how long the foster family has so technically speaking at DHS because case worker could knock on your door Sam taking the foster child and that would be notice. This representative Pilkington you're recognized for a question I thank you madam chair. The president has excuse my ignorance on this so I I assume the reason why they're removing children from one home is and not giving them proper notices fear of like a production you know taking the children out of state or something like that can so I guess you know my concern is is that an issue that if we give them too long of a notice they may find some ways to remove the child take the child out of state or something like that I meant that I guess I soon and maybe I'm wrong in the center that the reason why they're not giving proper notice is because they don't want something like that happens a lot of children objection sometimes are by family members and I would consider this foster family a family member I I have no information that would reflect that that's an an issue this does have a car about that says that no notice is required in exigent circumstances or situations in which they believe the child may be in danger and for the most part and and you'll hear from foster families here have been fostering for years have had open homes for for ten twenty years and so there's there's obviously very little risk of a flight and may and and again I mean the concern is that in these situations I mean you know. You're going to have you could have situations where somebody would do that but you would have that situation as the system is now the bigger concern is that we do know that we have kids you're being transferred from one house to another with no explanation no reason often without clothes often without medication and these are children who are already going to an ongoing comments or trying to figure out a way to kind of well that time as much as we can because we know that inconsistency and lack of routine is are two things that really affect children especially small children gadget can and follow ups will recognize and once again excuse my ignorance on this why it would why would when these transfers happened I I didn't hear that in your your opening and I am just not as familiar with the assistance of could you gonna give some examples of why they may remove a child from one foster home to move into the next and some of that at eleven in the families will speak to it that as well I mean that that's part the problem some of the reasons for transfer have been really arbitrary and AT and and right now there's not really any requirement that DHS provide any sort of explanation the bill does provide that they file a motion that does provide an explanation you know this child is going to be moved from this home here are some reasons why this move is important because the reality is if the child is in a safe foster home in the foster families doing everything that they're supposed to there's really little that little to no justification for moving that child and less there's some exigent circumstance for the family for some reason needs to you know have the child moved in and placed elsewhere. Thank you. Representative Wilder to recognized for a question thank you madam chair and almost verbatim the questions I was going to ask representative Pilkington asked but I guess my question to you would be maybe more directed towards DHS but my understanding is there is a shortage of foster home so I can't imagine why DHS would look for an arbitrary reason to move a child that was in a good home again I guess excuse my ignorance as well but that I can't really wrap my mind around why that will take place I guess my question would be for DHS is there a shortage and and can you speak to any issues that you are aware of that would have because this legislation or why these transfers be taking place. So we'll call DHS to the table if you don't mind. Just recognize yourself I know you know the drill yes ma'am a good morning all I Mr Martin I'm DHS deputy secretary I'm also DCFS director. And to answer questions I would we always the more foster parents and we are aware of some concerns around movements but the law does require that DHS give fourteen days notice not only for non emergency removals not only to foster parents but as well as Adlai items the parent and the court we acknowledge that that sometimes doesn't happen but I will also say that placement so the biggest challenge for DHS workers and there isn't a replace plate the struggle with places every day there are not there should not be I mean I'm sure it with four thousand children it's probably happened before but I can't imagine a situation where out where a worker is just moving without any notification of the court team or the foster parent and if that were to happen that would be a situation if they did not have justifiable reason like a maltreatment report concerns about the safety of the child that that that would be a disciplinary issue for a case worker. You're recognized as one one followed thank you madam chair that was gonna be my follow up is what action is taken on behalf of DHS or by DHS if if you're truly found that no notice was given or child was moved in properly yeah I mean it's disciplinary issues I mean it is the issue that we have talked about with staff numerous times but usually it's not just an art like I've never seen a case where worker was just like I don't like these foster parents I'm going out and I'm moving them to another placement placements are hard there have been situations where the local team agrees whether the continuation of the placement is appropriate for some reason but if a worker just was like I don't like this foster parent I'm moving to another foster parent without justifiable reason that would be a reason for discipline and should be raised at the latter. Are there any other questions by committee. Sir content that you're just looking at me of them trained represented by you're recognized. Thank you madam chair I'm a little bit confused and again I was in another committee running a bill so I didn't get to hear your introduction and I apologize for that but if the law already requires fourteen days notice why are we doing another law requiring fourteen days notice yeah and and but again the problem is this isn't happening and the other problem is that there's no right to have any sort of justification or explanation and the final problem is is that the foster families are being retaliated against for seeking counsel to advise them on these issues and to me that's one of the biggest problems that we have right now and there are our families here who will testify to the fact that they have been told that one of the reasons that the child is going to be removed and not and they're not gonna be considered for adoption in March because they sought legal counsel in the proceedings and and those types of things really alarm me and so we would just want to make sure that we are providing a guideline so we have consistent results and it's not on DHS we've also had foster families report that that there's inconsistencies among judges and so this provides them some of us some guidance and some structured how the proceeding should run as well. Any other questions representive Shepherd you're recognized motion at the proper time okay are there any other questions by committee. Okay we do have several signed up to speak on the bill. And please forgive me and correct me if I pronounce your name wrong first we'll hear from Gloria. Paco. Okay that's IT thank you I'm sorry my time in the classroom has been limited lately so I haven't been reading other people's hand writing much. Please identify yourself and you'll be recognized. Completely understandable hi my name is Gloria futuro I have been a foster parent for four years and I am a constituent who brought this representative Hudson and representative flowers attention today I'm going to tell you what happens I'm not going to tell you a story because it's not made up I didn't write it down I am telling you my experience and for those of you who said that you are ignorant to this and had questions that's very fair and I would be openings open to answering questions about my experience doing this. So the first thing that happened to me was I decided I wanted to be a licensed foster parent I've always wanted to do it since I was in high school I just have a calling as some people say it on my heart to do it and I went through a DHS directly by myself I did not find any of the organizations around the state at the time who helped license they didn't they didn't suit me so I independently went to the website I clicked the button I filled out the paperwork and the process that normally takes people anywhere from six to eight months I got done for because I was determined I'm a very determined person. And so in December of two thousand nineteen after my family and friends threw me a wonderful foster shower I opened my home and within twenty four hours I got my first placement call and then another and then another so I can tell you the need is gross and it's immediate my last research showed that for every one foster home slash bed there are three children who need it so there is a drastic need for foster parents and I can tell you first hand that there are people who have quit fostering or who will no longer consider fostering because of what has happened to me and I am here to tell you that what has happened to me is real and it is happening at the White scale I am not anomaly. So I opened my home I said yes to a ten week old baby boy his name was mica and that was my pride and joy and when I got the first phone call and they said you know can you take them I thought oh my god this is the call right you've been waiting for this but like they're gonna give me a baby will it and then fifteen minutes later they said we'll see he's got a sister. And she still and she's in another foster home and we want to keep them together and I thought to under two first time parent and I called my mom and I said mom the only reason I have not to do this is because there's two of them and she said well it sounds like you've already made up your mind so I said yes and I went home and I pulled out baby clothes and diapers and all of the things and hours later the social worker came in place the tiniest cutest little baby in my arms and that was that we were off the tears the crying all that you would expect I think I might to I was crying he was crying we called my mom crying in my mom came back because what what email. But we were instantly bonded and I'm only he was mine and I was his but obviously he was not my biological child and so going through this I met his biological parents and we became very close they call me baby mama they were My Baby mom and baby Daddy there are three of us at doctor's appointments we regularly face time they knew if they had any questions about either the kids they could call at one point we had to make an ER trip in the middle of the night and I called them and they met us there and my daughter called me mommy and her other mother mama there was never a question we were all family. And both of these parents were struggling with addiction and as we know that is a severe health crisis that happens in our state they were not able to retain custody of their children and so we had gone through this case for a year and mom was actually in rehab when the judge decided to actually go ahead and do CPR not order it but actually an accident and the it actually had to be a two part hearing due to time so the second day mom was not there that was not present I'm not sure if he was just in jail or not there but T. P. R. was done. And I knew that the bio parents were going to be calling to check on the kids because it was a weekly thing that we have established and so I asked DHS who is going to tell her that her rights have been terminated house is gonna work what do I do when she calls and they said oh well that's account questions for parent council call parent council so I did and parent council informed me that it was Friday it was around four o'clock she was going to be making that call and I just didn't need to say anything. And I said well we have court today and they know we had court today they were present yesterday so when I called to talk to their children this weekend and they asked me what happened in court what am I supposed to say he's not going to lie to them they've lost custody of their children and they don't know what. Think about right now you're sitting here. Your children are no longer yours and no one has told you. The disrespect. I was not going to a party to it. So they said well you can do it. I'm not a DHS employee I'm not a psychologist I am a human being who loves the children that they bore. So I called them. I video chatted with them over Facebook and I was crying and I told them I needed to speak to both of them. And I look them in their face through that camera and told them that they have lost the rights to their children. And I heard that mother break I heard her cry. I saw that father screamed and dropped the phone and hyperventilate. I stayed on the phone and listen to them saw as their world crashed and no one but me could be bothered to tell the. After that no when it DHS to get a hold of them for weeks because they had gone vendor as addicts often do under times of great stress. I'm also licensed as an adoptive home when I went through the process I license myself for both in the off chance that a child who had been with me long term we need a home I could continue to provide that I never settle I want to go adopted child I'm gonna steal baby it was if the need is there I will be attached and I will step up. I don't before TV are happened I've had multiple people at DHS ask me if this goes the TV are would you be willing to adopt these children I said yes without hesitation I mean they're already make if they've been here for over a year why would I say no. So your CPR happened I was told that was the plan. I had an adoption specialist come into my home and I was surprised she was there she was asking me all sorts of questions and I said well what are we doing it she said if you don't want to adopt these children need to know right now because I was under the impression that you do. I absolutely want to adopt them I just didn't know we were there already and she said yes this matter should be resolved in about six to eight weeks I'm ninety eight percent sure that they should go off without a hitch. Ninety eight percent. Two percent will get you every time. DHS is my understanding when it shall come to care is supposed to do what's called a nexis lexis search you're supposed to look for any and all family members regardless of whether or not they believe that family member will take the child just to alert them to the situation and let them know and reach out to them again around CPR the keep in mind CPR as already happens and I've got mixed answers from case workers a case worker supervisors I doubt if this happened or not I've been told yes I've been told no I've been told do it again the judge ordered it several times so what I'm being approached by adoption specials my home asking to adopt my children who've been there for at this point almost a year and a half. I estimate that searches been done because why else would you be talking to me. You know what happens when you assume. I found out that my children had a distant relative and I mean this in a second cousin once removed could never met my children never even breathe the same air as them. Who is interested in having them. And. She said that she came forward with my daughter who was placed in the care seven months before my son first came into custody. She lives in help Colorado and she said that she flew down and went to the hearing and the judge I'm here I want this child but when parents work their services part of that is visitation with the child so they could send the child to Colorado and give the parents they're entitled as a patient so they said thanks but no and according to her she was told not to call and check on this child not to do anything and DHS would call her. So that's what she did for over a year. Not a very determined person but I'm also a person with a lot of common sense. If there is a child that I care about my sister's child a sibling of friends child and there in a precarious situation their future is and determined. If someone told me I don't worry about it we got it. I'm sorry what. The last thing I would do is not check on them for over a year. And so now we're in the situation where there is a distant family member who technically did what she was told even though she had no proof that this is what she was told. And she wants the children that I've taken care for a year and a half who she's never met who she does not know. Want to take them away from everything they know to be with her because their family. So DHS that well they'll have to fill out ICPC paperwork which is the type of paperwork that's done when you're talking about moving a child from one county to another or one state to another make the most people don't even do the I think he's able work they're not gonna finish it. She finished it. Also I have to go through a home study in a lot of people don't want to do that **** we'll see what comes at a yes she did. She encountered significant health issues at one point she lost the ability to walk hi trouble seeing DHS still thought she was valid placement for two children under the age of three. I was told we would both get consideration they would decide what was best for the child fair right uncomfortable maybe don't like it but given the situation reasonable. So I waited and waited and waited. I found out that this person who's now been doing video visitations for thirty minutes once or twice a week with my infant and toddler that's the extent of her relationship with going to be given a consideration hearing so I was told. They would do disclosure which is where they go over the child's entire file in history as far as the agents know that and they would ask questions and supposedly I was going to get a disclosure meeting as well and then DHS would make the decision so what I found out about her disclosure meeting. Okay when's nine. I was told I wasn't getting a disclosure meeting because I didn't need one because they'd already decided. Feel free any of you to explain to me how you could have a meeting to make a decision. When the decision's already been made and how you don't need another meeting to make a decision if you don't have the meeting how do you know what to do. It was at this point that I sought legal counsel at the advice of several staff members on DHS I was told it was unofficial I was told not to use their names I was told Hey I never told you this but you need to get a lawyer. So I did. Got a great lawyer fantastic charges you a hundred dollars an hour I got a real lawyer you guys. The foster parent who had the nerve to spend her own money on a later. So we filed a motion to intervene which is to let the judge know Hey we would like to become party to this case so that I can have legal representation but I can have a say in what's going on because foster parent are considered party to these cases so we're not allowed to speak in court what is not required if a call is great but if they don't call us. We're not allowed to have representation we're not entitled paperwork because we're just glorified babysitters I mean that's what I've been doing for a year and a half right I mean I paid a couple hundred dollars for a lawyer but I'm not their mother that's what I kept being told. So my lawyer intervened on my behalf as best she could start asking questions ran against wall against wall because will your client as a party to the case we can't discuss this with you we can't discuss that with you. Going to court Hey judge or not a party to the case but would like to be can we speak well you can't actually is because you're not a party to the case but you become a part of the case without speaking. My lawyer is doing her absolute damnedest. And so Wallace is going on I'm told that I'm supposed to help me come up with a transition plan for my children to go moving with this woman who they talk to on video chat a couple of times. Okay fine I will continue to do that because it's in the best interest of my children but I'm also still going to pursue adopting them because you came into my house is that I could and I already have a license. I plan to take them to the zoo with these new family members to do a photo shoot with my family and there's let them know these are people we love and care about you after all it's not their fault either they did what they were told their victim in this to. So I was given a rough estimate of when they might come down for Colorado for this transition. Meanwhile my lawyers are working. I got a call from the adoption specialist one day asking of all the home that evening because she wants to talk to me about the plan to move the kids sure we signed on six o'clock. I have my mother come in my best friend come to tend to the children so that I can focus entirely on this meeting. Sit down on the coffee table and I meet with her and she tells me immediately she's not there to meet with me she's there to take my children. Because I'm hostile adversarial a flight risk. Whatever do you mean. I'm working with this new family I have set up stuff to do to hang out I'm encouraging my kids to have positive connections I've done video chats on my own spare time. I have gone every fear viewpoint in every doctor's appointment I am in this these are my kids what why would I ever do anything to harm. Well you got a lawyer miss Peters so and that's a hostile act titles are we supposed to take that. That's what was told to me. And. The question Mister Pilkington had was also asked of me well how do we know that you're not going to move out of the county and try to run off with these children and kidnap them. Well you see I spend several hundred if not thousands of dollars on a lawyer who address and is due to report me for committing a felony. They maybe just maybe I'm not going anywhere also I have two small children who backs of the lease with two small children have you ever made it to the grocery store on time with two small children. But I'm going to move. Okay. There was no paperwork there was no court order. There is a police officer I had no way of verifying what she told me but she told me she was there to take my children. So I stood up and I almost fell down moneys were wobbling. I called my best friend my mother into the room. And I choked back tears and I look them in the face and I told them they're here to take the kids right now. They could not believe it I had to sit down so that I did not pass out. And they immediately said what do you mean they said use go spend time with the kids will back them up well it's my mother in the face and I said no I am their mother I know what things they need and don't need you don't need to know that you go spend time with the kids you keep them calm I will pack their things. All my sisters get them here now. I sent a text to my friends telling them that DHS was taking my kids and if they wanted to say goodbye they needed to come right now. Friends walked off the job and when I say walked off I mean they didn't speak to their bosses they walk out of their jobs and got into their car they were fixing dinner for their kids left the stove on and that honey go that the stove I got it to glorious they spend from hot springs people all over the state. Because they loved my kids matching shoes with my kids birthdays with my kids this video chats with my kids the love to these children and more importantly they were concerned. To these women these beautiful strong amazing women descended on my house like Lucas. And they sat there and they played with the kids and they cried and they told them to buy. And they sat in the living room as I held my babies and I told them that if I could lay down my life to stop them from what they were about to go through I would. But I could not. And they looked at me as I told my new three year old to do our best to take care of her infant brother. And I would do everything in my power to work this out. My son was sick he had medicine that I hadn't even gotten a chance to pick up because the pharmacy just called it in a few hours before an I told the adoption specialist this. I was told. Don't use bags because they've got to get on an airplane that's small bags. They left without the majority of their stuff. Later after my children have been taken. Actually it back up. This adoption specialist at the nerve to ask my mother to put my children in the car. And that broke my mother. I saw my mother break. So I put my children in the car because I'm a good daughter and I'm not gonna have anything that happened my mom and I'm even better mom and I'm not going to have my children scared. So I guess the night with them in the car and I walked back to my apartment and I fell through the door and I screamed in agony. I heard the same song and the same sound that came out of that mother's throat when she lost her children came out of me. My sister doesn't even call to scream she said I never want to hear you make that sound again. I fell to the floor and had to be carried to my couch where I proceeded to keep screaming because my children had been ripped away. My attorney immediately showed up. And she was on the phone with the children's attorney who had no knowledge that they had just been moved. And also claimed she could do nothing to stop it. So we're proceedings dragged on but now I'm at a disadvantage because the children have been moved. So the judges force with you I move them back what happens. Well she's a distant relative. And that's not so we had to appeal and go through quarter after court. And I got less less details because I was no longer the foster care on the case she was so I was no longer entitled to updates or case documents or even to be in court about the case. Miss Pedro I don't want to cut you off but I would like to make you aware that we have eight others signed up to speak okay. I can and that there well I also would like to know if you're open for questions from yes absolutely the reason I wanted to take my time and when I tell you what happened is because I know that address a lot of the questions you have about how this happens to does anyone know. And the answer is sometimes how do you off the ladder when the latter is the one that came crashing down on you and who do you tell do you say Hey I want to talk to your boss because you took my kids. When they show up without paper work what do you do. Because they're already considered hostile. You got a lawyer. So to ask questions are there any questions from committee for this witness representative Wilder you're recognized. Thank you madam chair and first of all god bless you for fostering children I think foster parents ought to get to go straight to heaven if that is able I guess my question would be when you signed up to be a foster parent or the foster into adopt these children or just foster temporary placement so there's actually no such thing as foster to adopt because DHS their goal is always in the reunification of the parent so you can license to foster and adopt but not there's no like automatic path to foster and also I'm licensed to do both and I did you that originally when I signed up follow. You're recognized thank you madam chair so your story is heartbreaking and I feel for you I could imagine being in that situation but I think that I'm struggling to understand that it's a terrible situation and and for them to be removed is a terrible situation but. If that was part of the DHS policy and then this addresses no notice given but you talked about in your testimony that you they were trying to get you to meet with them for transition plans obviously there would have been some notice in that are you upset that they were taken in placed with a relative that lived out of state or you upset about the process and so I was never given actual notice like written down this is the day that they're moving here's your ten day notice I was told this could happen just like she could fill out the paperwork she could she could I was never actually told this is happening because I was supposed to have a meeting for consideration athlete she the decision was supposed to be made they're staying or they're going and then a transition. One more phone recognized thank you madam chair so. Would it be safe to say it again god bless you because I couldn't imagine the scenario you're in but when they asked for this transition mean I would think you would have to. I think that there's a high probability that this is going to take place well they ask for one for her they never asked for one for me and so that's when I got my lawyer to say Hey I'm supposed to be getting a meeting I'm not getting the meeting can you at least get me a meeting so that I can be considered and that's what I was told they didn't need to be with me because they already considered me and my question was well how can you consider me if you don't have a consideration meeting. Are there any other questions from committee representative fight you're recognized thank you madam chair and I'm I'm so sorry for this very tragic situation and again god bless you for being a foster parent we we need more like you my question is was this ordered by D. eight then that the removal of the children in placement with the relative was that ordered by the court or ordered by DHS I believe DHS made that determination and have the court signed off on it but we never actually went support to discuss it for the judge to say oh I've heard from both sides and this is what I want to do which my understanding is that's where that language is in the bill that you actually have to go to court. Follow up please you're recognized yes since the person lived in another state was there another court involved This Is an Arkansas correct no when you do it's ICPC I'm not exactly sure what the acronym stands for but it has to do with when you're looking at moving to trial for one county to another one state to another in this case all of this was done through the Arkansas court system even though obviously the Colorado DHS staff had to go and perform the home study and what not because she was not here. Any other questions by committee for this witness. Representative Wilder you're recognized I guess I have one follow up question are the children doing good in their new placement I don't know not allowed to talk to them okay. Seeing no others thank you for your testimony this. Next representative painter you're recognized. Thank you manager I like to make a motion that we limit comedy concerns to five minutes for each everybody else we still got a lot of bills to go over so not to catch anybody off but just want to try to get that Tommaso five minutes for each person we have left. Thank you that's a proper motion and non debatable all in favor say aye. Opposed no. The ayes have it so going forward for or against everyone will have five minutes at the end of the table and we will hear from Brian Welch next is here to speak against the bill. If you're recognized yourself Sir you'll be. I mean yes identify yourself you're recognized sorry. Yes good at good morning my name is Brian Wilson the executive director for the Arkansas Commission for parent council I represent. About sixty eight attorneys who represent the parents from whom custody was removed and dependency neglect cases first I would like to thank. Representative Hudson and flowers and Senator Davis for meeting with us this morning to talk about this bill they are aware of our concerns but I just wanted to. Share those with the entire committee so that you understand kind of where we're coming from I'm not gonna get into all of the notice issues so that's more of a DCFS issue we don't have a whole lot to do with that our concern with this bill is a couple things one first and foremost as drafted when this bill mentions a temporary placement we do have what's called a trial of home placement process where kids that are in foster care are returned to their parents but the custody is not returned to custody still remains with the Department on a temporary trial placement to see if the services in progress that the parents have made are sufficient to provide a safe environment for the children under this bill we would not be able to do this without going to court in in some of our smaller counties this could take up to maybe three months depending on the cycle of the hearings when it was filed how many other things are on the docket if they get to it if they don't etcetera etcetera and our parents would then also be reliant on the department to file that on their behalf because the department be the one seeking the placement not parent council. So from our perspective that that's that's going to hinder some reunification efforts the longer these children stay out of home the more likely it is that they go termination. The number one indicator for reunification is how visitations go number two is usually how trial placement goes if the trial placement success successful reunification usually occurs right at the end of that trial placement or in the middle of the trial placement it's going really well so to hinder our ability to do that is is Problematic the second thing I would like to mention is I have great admiration for people who foster I appreciate all the foster parents that we have in Arkansas especially appreciate those foster parents to take the time to incorporate our clients into that life to make sure as the the young woman who just testified that they're interacting with the parent as well because that provides our parents with a resource they might not have had when these cases first opened a support system that they don't currently have in the in the regular life. And so those of those people are very important. However have to be honest there is problems at times with foster parents foster parents and and I apologize for the terminology but use but it's it's it's accurate there's a term foster parent sabotaged. We have a lot of foster parents who want to adopt children that's the reason why they get involved with the system as they they feel like they need to adopt these kids out of the circumstances there in to give them a better life I appreciate that perspective but at times it tends to lead them to. DO things to slow down reunification or to outright prohibit reunification and under this bill. This would give foster parents the ability to stop reunification efforts. Without going to court which would delay permanency placement of these children back into the home and research is clear in this area these kids do better. First when they're not removed from the home at all if we can keep them in the home of jeep Services place that's when they do the best and then if we can return them to family members their long term outlooks are better than if they remain in foster care or adopted. That's just the research on this subject foster parents do a wonderful job. But it. And again I hate I hate to say it this way but they're not they're kids these kids are their parents kids until termination happens up until that point everything we do is a system should be to try to help that family to repair this family and put those kids back in a better situation we found and but still as a family unit. And then if we can't do that that's one of foster parents to step in and take over. I think this bill is going to create more problems in that area then we are ready experience and for every foster parent that sitting back here they'll testify to a bad experience they've had with the department we could probably March in just as many parents they have had that experience of foster parents and again I'm not casting aspersions on anybody that's just the reality of the situation and I thank you for your five minutes zero five minutes are up are you open for questions I am anything anybody wants to ask other questions for this witness by committing. Thank you for your testimony created. Next we'll hear from Christian. DO Clore click to click. Hi my name's question to clue I go by Chrissy I've been a foster parent since two thousand and fourteen we started with immerse Arkansas as a host home and we saw a very big problem just talking to the teenagers that have aged out and so we said Hey we're gonna go ahead and start with DHS to see if we can stop that problem we're not here to adopt a bunch of kids but we're gonna go ahead and open as a foster and adoptive home to see if we can meet some means. And hopefully instead of taking them from their families but show them what a different life could be like and then give them back to their families that was our main goal today I'm I've got a lot of cases in a lot of examples of where kids were removed from our home with no notice and instead of talking about all of those because we have. So many examples I'm only gonna talk about one her name was Neva and she died. I need you guys to understand that she's a sibling group and we did try to keep them together when they were placed in our home in September of two thousand and eighteen to have sorry in two thousand and eighteen her rights had already been terminated. So had her brothers and we try to keep them together the goal was for them to be adopted to gather whether that was in our home or they were going on the heart gallery came became very apparent very quickly that her brother was not a good placement for us but we continue to try because even if they're gonna be adopted together in another home we can we can deal with a little bit for a little while he did not do well in our home and so after seven months he moved on she was in our home for eleven months and they started A pre adoptive visit kind of a thing she had done a total known them for a total of fourteen days when I took her to the doctor because she was constipated and it turned out to be a Wilms tumor that had metastasized to her lungs. Nine days later while in the hospital well I have clones contacted the doctor's home and said Hey come do visits here because you know this is kind of a big deal this is a good bonding experience I have let the department know nine days later while she's still in the hospital DHS called me didn't come and talk to me called me and said Hey you're dismissed from the Department you're done and you can no longer see her. Is that can you give me fifteen minutes. My husband's at home with the kids. And they would like to come and say goodbye. She died three months later. We back to the department the doctor state bagged the department said Hey can you just let us stay here but we have no leg to stand on your not a party to the case we are just babysitters we're not allowed to get a lawyer. We're not allowed to get any notice we were called that day and said you're done. We did not get to hold her hand. When she died. The Department means a checks and balances system this is not a rogue case worker I worked all the way up. And this is not a single time that it happened when DHS is looking at me I have text messages an email saying this is no big deal kids get over cancer all the time and I sent them the screen shots from the. Tests saying no really this is stage four she's not going to live. They said it's okay she needs to bond with them. The Department means the checks and balances system to have someone else to be able to come in and say Hey like what someone else has already said there's already a law that says this why are we following it I don't know but that's I have a beautiful. Speech but I don't know. What if it's five minutes worth so that's my cliff notes. Thank you for testamentary open for questions I am. Are there any questions for this witness by committee. Seeing none thank you for your testimony okay sorry. We have a late one to the table representative due to recognized thank you madam chair I just wanted to say that we appreciate all that you have done in a clearly you care a lot for kids and. Would you agree that foster families do a great job in trying to support their kids have to into the question so I said that. I do agree and my most recent case was twenty one and a half months long whenever I was able to help get their mom there for kids back because I had all four. Foster parents are overburdened I had twelve kids over spring break. Thank you thank you for your testimony. Next we'll hear from Reverend Jeremy. And I'm gonna let you pronounce your last name. I think it's press roof. That's what I've gone with most of my life thank you for clearing that up for me yes right I'm up Reverend Jeremy press program an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church which is a fancy way of saying pastor I've served up in that role for ten years across the state in four counties actually I'll just say My experiences across the state have been working with foster families in my church in organizations that support foster families been largely what we've heard today that. Foster parents kid. Little or no information. they get kind of mistreated or kind of push down there's some negative attitudes towards them from various organizations and it's just not a good thing it's not a good thing for kids to have to get moved. Are some nervous I talking from people for a living this my first time here so apologies. UP providing kids with long term stability in placement and letting them stay in one place is the most important thing we can do to let them have a routine and to overcome whatever traumas our difficulties of let him into foster care so I really love that the idea of we're gonna keep them placed in one setting and I really love giving a foster parents the right to speak in court that the foster parents are the ones that know these kids that see them on a daily basis and I'm sure that all the attorneys and all the workers DHS and everyone does a fantastic job and wants what's best in their interest once what's in the best interests of the kids but they're not bear with them so having foster parents have the right to be party to the case to speak in the court and to share with the judge and everyone there all the pertinent information I think will give us the best outcomes possible because it'll give us the most information and that we need to up lift foster parents and make them feel like they're truly a part of the case that I've heard several foster parents not just today but over the last ten years address the idea that they get treated like babysitters and that's unfortunate and we need to everything we can to protect them and stop them so that is why I am here in support of the bill and I will take questions are there any questions by committee for this witness. Seeing none thank you for your testimony. Next we have Julie Adkins. If you're recognized yourself please sure. My name is Julie Atkins I am Hi I am I've lived in central Arkansas for twenty years and I'm an early childhood. Teacher I have twenty years twenty one years experience in early childhood I'm here to speak in support of H. B. eighteen eleven as. everyone who cares about young children everyone who has been a member of a church where we've had many many foster parents I've been a Sunday school teacher with children who are in foster care and have been very close with ms at Pedro and and her foster children I wanted to say that before I say what I was going to say after miss Peters experience that she spoke with you all about she was immediately given another foster child and shortly after that another so she's continue to be a foster parent as well but I just want to say as one who has a degree in and childhood education and. You know lots of continuing ad The foster if the foster system schools to protect children and give them the best possible chance of a healthy life and we need to pass legislation that prevents them from being unnecessarily removed from one home to another according to studies conducted by Harvard in the centers for disease control adverse childhood experiences or aces can cause tossed toxic stress to a child which leads to a variety of developmental difficulties for children that can affect them even into adulthood I hope I'm not telling you anything new But all Children who enter the foster system already have at least one ace and that is the separation from their parent and likely others including but not limited to physical abuse neglect exposure fight to violence and or drug and alcohol abuse and some have parents who are incarcerated one ace is detrimental to social emotional and near a development but the more aces a child experiences the more adverse effect it has on the person's entire life for example if you look at pictures of a healthy child's brain you can literally see many neurotransmitters connections taking place in you know a picture of that brain. When you look at the brain of a child who has experienced more aces and toxic stress you'll see drastically fewer connections being made it's a visible the child's development can actually regress or take backward steps from exposure to the toxic