ALC-Higher Education Subcommittee

Members will call this meeting to order and welcome to our first A. L. C. higher ed subcommittee meeting I appreciate everyone being here cochair five you have any opening comments I'm excited about the work that this committee will be doing and welcome everyone here today. Members just to give a bit of an overview we don't plan on meeting in July what we do plan on meeting in August and as many have expressed immediate concern are about to D. III in higher ed that'll be the primary topic of our August meeting so today I'd appreciate it if we don't go there and there are our new secretary has been in the on the job for just a few days so it'll give him a little time to get his feet under the ground on the ground in today would just be kind of an update on where he is and what we say so. Dr ward if you'd like to come up and miss Carly service in if you like come to the table also. Doctor warden is our new commissioner I called the secretary I'm sorry. And Mr leave if you'd like to join your welcome to our we'll call you up if we need you. So just enjoy your time and again thank you Mr warden is our new commissioner and if you'd like to introduce yourself and just give us a little bit of background on on yourself and what you see going forward. Absolutely of I sure appreciate the opportunity my name's can ward nine million saw Commission division higher education of. Truly humbled by the opportunity we're appreciate you all for your service I think that With the governor's initiatives of the good luck strong education legislation changes that were implemented this past session that we have some some gains to make it some good things to look forward to someone appreciate appreciate you and then secretary leave a also for hire me would allow the governor so I was gonna start by talking a little bit about myself my background kind of what I bring to the table to this position I was raised in the town Ozark Arkansas some of you are familiar with Ozark a graduate high school there and went on to to college with the you are sorry saw fed Bill. had a real good time but my scholarship didn't honestly pretty sure IT's that if secretary leave and saw a freshman transcript I don't know if I have this job but I'm here now but Went to work went to dislocated worker program I was working for Chevy when they moved with a dislocated worker program and got trained is not a motive technician so my first a credential short term credentials acts as a pyro technician was a non credit credentialed I got paid to blow things up at a military base when you're nineteen years old that's a pretty big deal so a lot of fun but the Clinton ministration its base realignment closure and right I mean opportunity go back to school I was out I want to be an automotive technician so pursue that path and did that and worked in automotive technician for all three four years And Allah I'll never forget the call I got and how I got into education. It was the first week of August and I was working as an automotive technician I was laying underneath a contact your truck for a small business firm a guy who rented garbage business and he had just finished his day in that truck was smoldering hot on a hot day in August in Arkansas and I was laying underneath that truck to get it back to going for him get it back in shape for him because we can take it back out the next morning. And I got a call the loudspeaker comments to the telephone and I got a telephone was Carl Jones who was a. The Director of the Arkansas about a technical institute that time and asked me if I would come down and substitute teach because he had in a in a faculty member that left in a lurch and took another job within the week before school starts to resourceful scholar. And I just thought to myself you mean I can go for the next two weeks and spend half a day and air conditioning thank you Jesus yes Sir I'm away so that was my for my. First introduction education I substitute taught for two months was applied for the job and and taught automotive service led that program there for the next nine years and so that's how I got into education after I got in I went on a I had an associate's degree at that time and I finished a bachelor's degree in vocational education few a fed bill. That school mergers Arkansas tech and provide me the opportunity to take graduate hours and I finished in masters in educational leadership which was K. twelve by design so that's kinda my so my expertise and Kate wills formally trained as a or educated as a K. twelve administrator and then I went back to the UK fed Bill and a doctor in education in two thousand twelve so I frequented every public institution you could access easily for moe's arc Arkansas in that period of time and I'm a big proponent of only public okay twelve education but our public institutions since the last nine years working for the University of Arkansas Fort Smith I'll let the caller replied size there's dean for six years and our lead workforce development efforts for that campus during that time in a year before that working directly for the chancellor and then for the last two years I've been serving as so she must answer for compliance legislative affairs so I was here most the last session and fiscal session for that. But I say all that to say this my I have a very broad experience in higher education state of Arkansas and I value education across all of of of our degrees are opportunities I just truly believe that we have to meet our Kansas where they are and moving forward. I'm excited about so the legislation learns about so the ways K. twelve leans into that. I will say this and with no nothing negative to say about prior. Work we're gonna model the Division higher education the department of education and how we work together and we're going to set some examples of some things that just haven't been done previously on how we better align these opportunities for for young people in for nontraditional students as well so that's one of the thing that sets a personal property for me in a property of of the agency. With that said just on a personal note Empty nesters my wife and I sent a merry twenty twenty nine years last month she'd say feels like fifty but a car at a weak moment thank god merry way up and so I have grown children and and and three grandchildren so of. Live here in Little Rock now trying to figure out how to you know make those accommodations work have a few few cows at home for fun and some other things so and everyone's while still working a tractor truck just to keep my sanity was it's it's it's much more happy place for me now than looking at a computer and kind of breaks up the monotony I still enjoy that work so. All that said That's Ken Wharton so um we're happy to have you here we're proud of our educational and higher educational systems in the state that's a our goal is a legislator or to work hand in hand with you one again want to welcome you and say thank you. Well thank you thank you very much and and before I we talk about one of the other talks today about the teacher prep just a few things that that I see and and working with the administration with the Secretary leave a as agency priorities right now a priority a big priority for us is developing in rules and getting those written for some the legislation that was passed recently so we're we'll full were full force on that figuring out those things get rules written for the legislation that was passed previously that were responsible for Again we're going to lean into our K. twelve components and look for seamless transitions for students from K. twelve into higher ed look for opportunities there I think with that workers gains we can make as a state around concurrent credit opportunities because concurrent credit opportunities around our state or delivered in different ways at different price points and different modalities around the state and I think our state would be better served to Standardize that and for those products a little better so that's a little better for all of our institutions and for. Most importantly our our kids. I think that I would be remiss if I didn't say that I think are formula productivity formula could be a little better I think clean doing more work in the non degree credentials base considering employment as maybe a piece but you know that's all some things that will have to do together but wanted you to know that as we as we walked that path I will be want to be someone you can count on to lean into the data to bring you good information at that if we're going to do something differently how we do that so that we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater on some good things that we already have the only and to really incentivize our institutions to do what the legislator wants some to do in ways that they're going to appreciate and not have to fight an uphill battle so I want to be a a checking for that. Thank you the members by the way if you have specific topics that you would like to put on our agenda here at a later date if you'd please see our analyst and get those topics on a listing we will certainly address each one of the topics that you bring up a representative to fight and I want to be sure we addressed what you want the issues you have of interest so if you'll see our analyst will compile a list of that if you have specific questions that you want to address during those meetings up with those down also you will be sure to get to if we need to meet every month we will have we need to meet every other month we will kind depends on what the committee sees as issues of importance if you look on your agenda we're on item city and Dr war I'm sorry run item to be and doctor warden has kind of given you an overview if you have questions on the this what he's talked about the overview we will entertain those now and Senator Rice you are. Recognized thank you Mr ideas will take a minute and and welcome doctor or not been around in some not too many doctors I get around us I'm going for a check up. doctor warden had the privilege of being around News that a couple different jobs and and I just will tell the committee is genuine is the sounds and is dedicated is the silence I do get to sit within couple days for god's appointment he didn't happen to mention that so either when when the plan on getting and you just keep your fingers crossed but when I heard he got the job hi I'm because. In my world. We're development in in getting people ready for a job and to where they can thank income and pay taxes and in better themself it excites me in this man believes it so I'm all for higher education of all kinds but I truly believe we have fail some of our young people and not getting money in programs that develops what they're best into and I thank Dr Wharton really brings that to the table and I'm I'm happy to steam and looking forward to supporting what he can do for finished product that will improve people's lives thank you Mr. I apologize your name flipped off the green screen to the restaurant and you're recognized for comment. Thank you so much and doctor warden welcome to the higher it's subcommittee in education in general you've been here for a while I'm sure by what you've told us and we welcome your wealth of experience because so many people and irate of never had the experience of working K. to twelve and many of us in K. to twelve I did work in higher it's four minutes and agent work of as we look a teacher preparation one of the things that is so daunting is getting teachers up for future teachers to pass the praxis. And I'm not sure where the practice is a blessing or bang. As I as I proceed in this life beginnings and buying is winning out but I'm wondering what are we doing to measure higher ed institutions which engage in teacher preparation. On how those students performed at praxis. And what we are doing. In order to encourage them to do better because we hear the the complaints about the students we in K. through twelve cent higher rate but we are no better than the people you send to us. So I'm wondering would you speak to the practice and would you speak to what we are going to measure. Are hold accountable those institutions were producing those teachers are future teachers who can't pass the praxis. Senator Hester thank you for the question actually in in the next session we have as a slide show that we're going to do on teacher prep okay I don't know that it directly answers that question and being new to the job I've got to just let you know that I'm I'm not the most Best expert on that topic but we are gonna talk some about that in the slide show if that's okay we can do this project that's fine if you're not comfortable talking in that this particular thing until a later date I'm fine with that but. There are some folks who don't think about the practice much. But it is that gateway into teaching yes and I think it has to be front and center especially with the learns and the other things we're talking about is what you purpose for teacher preparation is concerned and a being a former member of a president of AAP A. one of the things we did was to bring in people to teach people how to take the praxis where an eighty five percent pass rate we're not doing that it seems to me anymore I'm not hearing about it so whatever information you can bring to us about praxis and its implications I would appreciate it and what are colleges are doing to better prepare people to take that exam. Yes ma'am thank you so much thank you Mr. And we will move on to items see there which is the sideshow so um this search any if you introduce yourself and I think you're part of the lead on this you may begin. Carly Sarracenia cystic commissioner educator effectiveness and licensure it's great to be here today thank you you can have to pull that Mike of real close for the kitchen all right I need my teacher voice. Carly serwis her the teacher voice quite a bit I just your presentation boards of the vice okay and now Carly sear sini S. is to commissioner for educator effectiveness and licensure. So I'll start us with the first you slides and then handed off to servicing you so you'll have the side so you can see the slideshow so. So the first light is just showing you the number of providers that we have and the number of programs offered by those providers are in current enrollment numbers and the types of programs a traditional alternative I HG which is higher education institutes verification based and alternative not institutionalized education based and then also on the bottom there you'll see the number of of complete errors in the twenty twenty one year. So. At the bottom right. So of also further data this shows you have to stop you do for a second yes you have a lot of acronyms an education yes Sir for favorite educations prioritizes acronyms lot of our folks may not know what those me so if you come across an acronym would you kind of spell out yes Sir all the numbers and when you say traditional an alternative I AG based you might explain some of those with them and yeah I AG's institution of higher education so attracted to you have entered traditional is what you think of someone entering as a freshman in college and going through an education programming graduating with they're certify their licensure and and their degree in that field and alternative higher education institutes of higher education based isn't someone who didn't set out to be a teacher but may already have a bachelor's degree or other to reward and so they come into an alternate route that's not traditional so that you can complement the degree they have given as far as you can with that degree teaching there is senator teaching block to the teaching and learning pedagogy pace to get them on two of on to that on to a degree in education and the all other alternative routes are not higher education based and there are a few different models of that I think this section you can probably describe to you a little better intent in detail but is folks that you know are exception will qualified in maybe one field and they want to move into teaching we've got to make sure they know how to assess learning and teaching those in those environments and are good for kids. So that that's what I'm showing now is academic year enrollment and then across the programs and that's from eighteen nineteen nineteen twenty and into twenty twenty one. This is slide pretty proud of if you look in the in the middle stage there UC Arkansas. Is the only one in its touch state and even beyond that has increased our percentage in the number of teacher preparation programs we have so this is a testament to us recognizing the gap of the number the number of teachers were we have been producing and trying to increase access to these programs in other areas and that those around us are have not are not to that point. Carl. Just to kind of go from what he was talking about our end prep and romance if you look here you can see the trend that nationally this trend is almost the same it mirrors what are nationally is that right now we're on a effort training and for our non traditional routes those all routes which as a doctor warden was talking about it's your maybe I had a bachelor's degree in something else not education but maybe math and I wanted to teach so I went into a masters of arts in teaching and that happens at hi read also we have I know you've heard of teach for America that's in all right out also it used to be called apple but now it's called our pet that we actually have through daisy it's another off route as we have several art routes out there and they are slowly gaining not just in Arkansas but nationally Amir set that before it was acquired a wide gap now you see that you're all routes are catching up to your traditional routes I apologize for what is it E. PP stand for it's educator prep program I should have guessed that should no thank you need to stop this we have too many acronyms those are educator preparation programs we column DPP's and desi is a part of elementary secondary education if you. Thanks thank you for that and the next slide is our complete errors and you see that we have roughly around eighteen hundred complete or is every year that complete to licensure. On our next slide it's that ex senator Chesterfield was asking about the praxis in here is our praxis pass rates ETP's or educator preparation programs have been allowed to complete many candidates who did not meet the assessment score or support them toward a standard license so that's why or right sometimes do not look as good and I know you asked that question and have we Petty anything into place to help that help with that yes we have we call we have something called licensure assessment ready and it is really starting to turn around we've had it for a year and a half and I cannot wait to see the numbers after this year but on the next slide you can see we really have focused on the science of reading the foundations of reading assessment and has brought wonderful rewards from it also I am sending extra money to every. To every co op to have licensure ready at every co op available there are programs called to forty two during study dot com there are several things out there that really can help prepare students for the praxis and help with that not just praxis but for our foundations of reading exam. Yes go ahead Senator Chesterfield your thank you so much miss what is the pass rate for those who take it for the first time. And is it is the writing part steel the obstacle. Starting in twenty fifteen that basic core praxis is no longer needed for licensure we have a million okay so. Yet now so that riding doesn't come into play for licensure now hi read programs may steal. have that requirement for entrance into their program but that's now based on each individual at education preparation program well it is not something to licensure we heard that that wasn't their year so we've eliminated that barrier to licensure so now we're trying to put in place the structures for that content knowledge will I'm if I'm in a minute and only that alone and I appreciate that because it has been a significant barrier we had a large number of people who graduated from college in DC but test taking is a skill is not a gift and and and the writing part was especially troubling for so many people what I'd like to know from the Director now. Will we be making sure that no matter where a kid goes to school or young person goes to school that they're having to reach the same levels because if you've got something over here at he was in Texas private if you got something you you a fable you've got something else at issue that's up. Is there going to be a standardization. Of what schools will require of students in order to become certified to become a teacher so I can speak to that at a high level of discipline what I know at this point I do know that we have some schools that have some very good pass rate so we have some schools that are not so much and I know that as a state that we have made some decisions prior to my arrival to move away from the credit Dacian process sees and to implement our own occur and so I think that's going to help some of the standardization that you're asking about and I think that we we hope to see some some gains and some more standard practices institution to institution so that our graduates are all a quality product because it is very helpful to me and I we need some of my angst what does this is been such a huge issue for such a long period of time and it is precluded some folks that I think would have been great teachers but simply could not do it and most of the time we don't have to write dissertations we teach school I'm happy to take all the credit for that just just just thank all right thank you so much thank you Mr. The next slide works at our foundation I have another question okay. Senator Rapert you're recognized. The better pressure button again I guess a. I want to take a course in this stuff. You're okay we can offer micro credential that senator. Okay and the go ahead content I'm sorry representative Richardson did you have a question good okay. You may continue on this slide you see our foundations of reading and in twenty twenty one we started looking at the pass rates and we met with the council would deems across hi ed and we instituted a two week kind of tutoring boot camp and you can see our scores are going at tremendous and so I'm very and this is first time pass rate so they are going at and that's our goal is to make sure our teachers are day one ready for students. In the end the F. O. R. their stands for our foundational reading I think a figure that one out okay and again you're a attribute that spike. To the program this back from sixty four percent to seventy five percent and more training specific training yes and we've also just not only put in the tutoring peace the components but we've also brought in higher ed to the table and working with learning services we have provided training for faculty at higher ed and that collaboration I think is why you're seeing that Spock at we they have been offered letters training for the science of reading just like K. twelve teachers and it was highly attended. So I think you're gonna see as we become and more collaborative and not working in our silos and at getting them at the table at the very beginning and not at the end you will hope to see these trends going at Ford. Thank you may present. And this slide I just want to brag on Arkansas we don't get to do this very often but we are a registered apprenticeship for educators. We were one of eight and I have this is a collaboration with the C. T. E. Ross white in his great and we also have to give a lot of credit to Cody white sent his great this was something very collaborative and we are now one of eight registered apprenticeships and so we're getting to tap into those department of labor dollars and to me I will get this as the printer ship not only attracts got used into it but it also helps retain those teachers because those journeymen which are your mentor teachers will receive quite a large stop in its twenty four five hundred a semester for mentoring being that journey men for that apprentice so we're excited this will launch in the fall of twenty three and we're super excited to see what this how this takes off in Arkansas and it's really big information so how do we dispenses information to our current teachers that I guess that's the folks were trying to target and how to I don't hear much about that from them so how are we sharing that information we are sharing it out at co op level we're sharing it out and we certegy clay had regional meetings and we continue to do that we also are trying to work with ADA and asked it to get it out to the teacher organizations again we know communication is key and getting it to that level of teachers that I have had several phone calls because they'll call and they'll say I thought I was going to retire but this could be something for me and I would say yes ma'am and yes and like I will I may stay unified can do this because our apprenticeship is a one to one or one to two so that journeymen that mentor teacher if they are have if they have to apprentice in their school that their mentoring it would main five thousand for each apprentice that's a five. Thousand dollars swing in salary so it could be really utilized as a retention and this year we have funding for two hundred apprentices across the state. We have regional meetings could you contact our analyst here so that they can send that information out to our legislative towards that they're having your committee meetings in our districts I think it's important especially for members of this committee to try to attend those and I think it be helpful for both of us I will because when we have a regional meetings we offer we ask hi read to come as well as districts because this is a partnership because this funding funds the last two years of at the apprentice. Per the if you're an apprentice if you become an apprentice we encourage you're wanting your to with a R. features because we do not use that and that so that's what we encourage it's on our slide show it's a required because we want to encourage that and the seventeen two years that have education as a as a major their focus there in the in the last two years it pays for and up to twelve thousand a year tuition set for the apprentice and it goes straight to the university seventy five percent up front at the first of the semester twenty five percent at the end of the semester we've also put in a thousand dollars for praxis and foundations of breeding status to the partnership list hi at us to the partnership with the city and state sixty nine you're recognized. Thank you Mr chair I just to become a question what measures are you guys taking or where are you in the process of kind of blending down the E. S. program or educator affecting the system into the colleges maybe I don't know if necessary in the methods class or during their student internship that way as they're coming out of called out of the university that there they've at least been exposed to that matrix of indicators and things like that I know when I was as an administrator I had stated in terms I would. Practice that for them just for their behalf but I thought if they came into the school systems and they were. Somewhat aware at least that those positive indicators for them to succeed that's taken a little bit of pressure off of of the schools in those those educators are ready to hit the ground running. That is a great question and by the end of June we will have an aspiring teacher rubric for effectiveness T. educator effectiveness because it is important to see those indicators at that level also at the level of when you become a teacher and so it is getting pushed down into methods class and even before and as I hope to see a lot more evidence as they come out and also we even did the act. On the job training for the apprenticeship we even aligned it to our educator effectiveness rubric so we are a very aware of that and we had again we are not working in a silo we had higher ed at the table and and they are coming in and they are helping to develop that rubric and so when they have some skin in the game so to speak you know it's going to happen in the classrooms so we're really excited about that. Thank you thank you thank you Mr. Do Chesterfield you're recognized thank you Mr chairman. Because I'm just very excited about the information I still think however that some of our programs is the best kept secrets. On the planet. Our futures was read the number of scholarships was reduced because people don't even know it existed. And even though we're going to collapse and the secretary said this morning that. The first time Pulaski County little rock and north little rock beginning to act like a call up because they were just three islands unto themselves. What are we going to do to increase it because even though you have put it out to various entities. When we tell the public you're kicking get a free education for two years to our futures when we going to. The other plans to put that out there so that people have to guess about it because I've been pushing it every church I go to every you know I tried to say it doesn't make sense parties not to have an education it doesn't make sense everybody the need for your education. But you can go to Pulaski tech you can go to other to your institution you can go across this state and now you can even use of a private institutions up to the amount that you would paid for a public schools what are we going to do to ramp that up because I want to do something like we did when we had the The the lottery you know he was like Hey. Cheerleaders bam bam bom bom everybody knew about and this is as important to our cases that was so what are we going to do to wrap it up. Thank you senator for president question I will say that You know we do spend quite a bit on promoting and advertising in traditional ways and also in social media but I think the most when the most important things we can do is get into our institution higher higher education have them promoting it frankly I think that there are some ways that what things we can do to ease the implementation and utilization on behalf of the institutions so that they can. Get that money into the K. answer those students in in those programs a card and I actually talked about it this week we were talking about getting together just today with about the apprenticeship program and and and our association of community colleges here in the state to talk about leveraging futures back to this apprenticeship because if they don't know about it or don't think to leverage it when I think about two year degrees and teacher training because most of the teachers agreed or forty degrees they don't know what they're laying is right access that or make it work so again we're gonna work together and make sure that we get the right audiences at the table particular financial aid offices in our institutions of your to your schools to further leverage our futures and if there are things from an implementation or operational sessions standpoint of the of that scholarship how do we get the implementation barriers out of the way to make the make the Blake and more effective. I think that sounds great aunt was secretary of labor here I think I. counselors can do a better job at the high school level as well. I'm not sure that they're doing what they need to do in case and especially the higher it level me at the secondary level. To make sure that our kids know that this is available because I don't expect you to go down high school. It's okay if you do but it be nice to see on TV or something saying god this is free education for your kids if you if you do this and as the nineteen is not. A part of the conversation because that's that is a. That is a stumbling block for a lot of kids that ACT nineteen that Arkansas is put into place rather arbitrarily but what are we doing I would hope that higher it under the the secretary would be would do more. And I know we just getting down here but do more at that. It's secondary level to make sure there are schools that yield on use concurrent credit. They should be made to use concurrent credit. And there are counselors that are not telling me it's about scholarships that are available that can make a difference in their lives. We've got to do more so I'm hoping that this collaborative effort about which you speak would be utilized to K. to twelve as well as as higher read it and I just wanna say thank you so much this is this is been one of the nicest meetings. But you know a soul the reason legislation and learns a looking at more of better articulate career pathways and other opportunities whether those are technical training or they are you know traditional FOR your degrees the career coach pace and informing those folks not only on what the career options are under the young people understanding that but also an understanding the financial opportunities of I think that some of our folks especially are first generation college students when I see the sticker price are so the higher education they it is a law sticker shock you know but if you dial that back and you look at what the what what we have to advertise as cost of tennis is a big number but what when you back that down without all the frills that we are forced to put in the metric I just give you for instance you know I think are advertised because of the tense the universe out levels over twenty thousand dollars a year but I had a son who attended the university we got down for about nine because he you know he didn't live on his own he didn't have the newest laptop we we made the most and try to find the value and so there's a gap there and with that gap those students in most need making that challenge plus scholarship so that we also within the base in there the financial gap. But that is what above the true gap that we overcome with our scholarship opportunities including future others is much smaller that I think we are at sometimes get pain and gets by with a broad brush on that we have some very very good opportunities but to your point they're no good if a student can understand my taxes my access to those so I appreciate the question we're going to we're going to continue to make strides in that. Thank you so very much thank you Mr chair you're welcome positive meeting I don't know how all this is that you almost every breast. Thank you yes I think this is an agenda item for a future meeting because we can talk about this but without the data points you know we're just talking and we need to know what the numbers are cost and members participants will put this on the agenda for the meeting pretty soon and The representative Walker you're recognized thank you Mr chair thank you guys too for presenting this to us and I am excited to see what the teacher residency model will look like going forward I think it could be one of the best programs model or whatever for future teachers being able to to kind of work under teachers as they're going through the program however working constituents had a drum some of the issues addressed with this I guess pathway and other pathways is people with associate degrees from accredited colleges may or may not transfer or yeah mayor may not transfer over whenever they try to enter a teaching program I've been told that there's a college in Arkansas that forces them to enroll in a master's program if they want to go the traditional route OR a college will only take one year worth of credit even though they have an associate degree that shows that they have covered their basics and in my opinion you should not have to start over if you have an associate degree from accredited college so I just I'm wondering if the if we have anything in place yet or if there's something that we can work towards to where people that have an associate's degree from an accredited college can start at year three in the teacher program and not be forced to go the nontraditional route. Let me just jump in here I know I spoke with you all earlier about where we would go in this meeting and I don't want to put you in a position you've been on the job for a few days now of having to address officially and on video an on record position are you prepared to answer that question. Your and Ellis is no if you're not let's come back let's have the data and let's have the information that we can hand out and people have it versus giving a generalized response so so I can give you a high level response and will drill in if we need to later and get more data and more you know address the questions more directly but I will say that is a it's a priority of the administration of the secretary to shore up any gaps in transfer of courses from one institution of public institution or the other we do have the Arkansas of course transfer system that really takes care of a lot of that in general education hours there has been some prior work done to look for standardizing. I'm sorry could you I'm hit the wrong I guess I'm done thank you that but now. Well we're. There's been some prior work done to do that for technical courses I can't your address teacher programs directly I just don't know at this point but I think we have some work to do just to standardized course transfer and really how many hours of course is worth one of the dresses may rescind standard course naming numbering some things like that there are a lot of institutional differences overcome their studies work but I will say that in working with our team over the last two weeks we've already had discussions on the S. and or or milling a plan on how we get a get to that business a rather quickly because we have yeah I think it's important that we have datapoints we can talk about systems and what we think works but we need data on that so Representative walkie a follow up I do just. Throwing this out there to the teacher residency model I think would be a good spot to look at for it since it already has it on the form that I want you to complete your associate's degree you automatically go to level two teachers that are in level two that have an associate's degree to start the program starts at level two they're also getting that on kind of on the job training being under a teacher self or worried about these teachers going through not going through the traditional associate pathway to becoming a teacher working under a teacher they're pretty much going to get the same level of service that they would have got and got and what I forgot the name of what the associate pathways for teacher but to mate what kind all said that if that is a concern about some of the colleges my actual question though is on the website it's confusing for a lot of of the constituents I've talked to that want to become a teacher they're not sure who to talk to now I'm not going to the website I get confused from time to time that there needs to be one list and you shouldn't have to go through a bunch of links trying to figure out which one is right for you I don't know if it's one document or something that just highlights all the pathways that we have whether it's traditional nontraditional that also addresses what it would look like for them so basically if you have this this is the program you will be in and just try to help simplify it so I can say go to the here's how to start here's how to become a teacher website click the one document that's on there figure out which one you fitting and by reading the descriptions and we'll put that on our next agenda because that requires a very a very detailed response so feel compared at our next meeting to address that we appreciate it members your last two questions are really good so make sure you come up here and get them on the list so that we can address them in the future is that thank you the last line. Members anymore questions. Thank you very much. And members anybody have any closing comments thoughts. What what with the no questions we are adjourned.