House Caucus
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Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Speaker 3
2:00
Caucus, please come to order. Caucus members, please take your selected seats. Thank
Speaker 6
2:16
you all for being here. Mr. Clerk, prepare the machine for the roll call. Indicate your presence by pushing your yellow present button. Prepare the machine, Mr. Clerk.
Speaker 8
2:30
Has everyone indicated their presence? Cast up the ballot, Mr. Clerk. Eighty-six members present the chair sees a quorum. The chair recognizes the speaker to designate Robert Moore for some remarks. Mr. Speaker, you're recognized. What
Speaker 6
2:53
purpose? Yes, excuse me, Mr. Speaker. Yes, sir, Mr. Kerr, what purpose? And it didn't show up.
Okay, Madam Clerk. Neither did Ms. Clemmer's. Ms. Clemmer and
Speaker 8
3:06
you both. Madam Clerk, please record Mr. Curran. Ms. Clemmer present, please. Yes,
Speaker 3
3:17
sir. Mr. Bell, please record Mr. Bell present. Madam Clerk, is there anyone else? Yes, sir, Mr. Johnson. Okay. Please record Mr. Johnson present.
I think that will make you a total natty. Chair, she's a quorum. Mr. Speaker, you're recognized. Let's give Mr. Speaker more
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
3:45
of your attention, please. Thank you, Mr. Parliamentarian, and thank you, members, for being here today. A few remarks. I want to tell you, first of all, that I know that many of you are inconvenienced being here today. It's the last couple of days, a little R&R before we get down to work on Monday. I assure you I would not have called this caucus meeting today if I didn't think it was important for the good of the 88th General Assembly.
we we have a matter pursuant to uh arkansas constitution article 5 section 11 that we are to deal with today regarding our responsibility to be the sole determiners of qualifications of members of the house of representatives we're here for that purpose and for any other purpose regarding any member that is to be brought in question under Article 5, Section 11.
Now, the reason we're doing this, just for the record, so you all know, it's pretty obvious. When we go down here on Monday, the proceedings are scheduled for Monday for each member returning or new are as special, especially with you 46 new members, as special as anything that you will be involved in in your life. it is a special day for you it's a special day for your family your friends uh each of you most likely each of you will have a a spouse or a member of your family here on the floor with you
to celebrate this day it is a day when we come together with the people of arkansas to show that we are ready to go acting in unity to take care of their business it's an important day for us it's It's an important day for our families and friends. Most importantly, it is an important day for the people of the state of Arkansas as we begin our work. So I wanted us to come together, take care of a very important responsibility that we have
so that we did not bring any discomfort or inconvenience to any member, to any member's family, to any friend, or to anyone who deals with us as we engage in this important part of our process, and that is seating the members of the 88th General Assembly. I also wanted to do this because I want our discussion to be an environment
where whatever words there may be that are heartfelt necessarily need to be spoken, that they are spoken in an environment where no member feels constrained or restrained by the special events that are associated with the circumstances on Monday. So the business we have here today is necessary business, and it's business we will take care of.
Because when we come back together Monday, I want to see a smile on everybody's face. I want to see us ready to go in unity with purpose for the people of the state of Arkansas. Now, we're going to proceed today just as we will be proceeding on Monday, and that is the parliamentarian will preside until members are sworn in and seated. We're all here in the same status today. We're all members-elect, parliamentarian proceeds until we're sworn in, until the election of the speaker is final.
So in just a moment, I'm going to turn it back over to the parliamentarian, and we will proceed accordingly. I would ask that each of you, as we engage in this important process, That you take a moment just to reflect that what we're doing here today, it is extremely important that we remember that to function effectively as members of the upcoming 88th General Assembly, that our actions must be characterized with integrity and professional courtesy.
If we fall below those standards in any measure to deal with innuendo, rumor, allegation, we're going to do a great disservice to this institution. The words that we speak are the best reflection at the time that we speak them of who we are. So whatever words are compelled to be spoken today, speak them wisely.
That's my entreaty from each one of you. Now, I want to thank you for being here. I want to thank you for your service. I want to thank you for your dedication. And I want to thank you for the honor that you bring to this institution. Mr. Parliamentarian. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 16
9:04
the caucus to bring this issue before the body requires a motion, and Mr. Waterlaw, what purpose?
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
9:14
Voltaire, I move that the House caucus concur with the non-bounding recommendation of the Claims Commission, which is to seat Representative Fred Smith with the 88th General Assembly. That's a proper motion. Mr.
Speaker 3
9:24
Waterlaw, you're recognized. Come down and explain your motion if you'd like. I think my motion is pretty self-explanatory. I understand. Anyone want to speak against the motion? Anyone for the motion?
Speaker 16
9:36
Mr. Waterlaw, would you like to close for the motion?
Speaker 3
9:43
No, sir. Mr. Waterlaw is closed for the motion. The question before the House is for the caucus to concur in the non-binding recommendation of the Claims Committee, which is to seat Representative Fred Smith with the 88th General Assembly. it. Prepare the machine, Mr. Clerk. All those in favor of the
Speaker 16
9:59
motion indicate by voting yes, green. All those opposed to vote no.
Speaker 21
10:09
That's right. Has everyone voted? Has everyone voted? Cast up the ballot, Mr. Clerk. By
Speaker 8
10:16
a vote of 88 ayes, one no, and no president,
Speaker 24
10:18
You have passed the motion. Sorry. Mr. Murdoch,
Speaker 3
10:35
what purpose? I cast a vote, but it didn't record. Okay. Let the record indicate that Mr. How did you vote, Mr. Murdoch? You
Speaker 8
10:41
vote yes? Okay. Let the record reflect, Madam Clerk, that Mr. Murdoch voted yes. Increase the vote total.
Speaker 3
10:48
Is there any other pertinent business relating to the seating of members based on qualification and returns or elections? Mr.
Representative John Burris
Unverified
10:57
Burris, what purpose? Motion. Let's hear your motion. I'd like to make a motion to delay the seating of District 83 and refer it to
a review to the Claims Commission. That's a proper motion.
Speaker 21
11:08
You're recognized. Come to the well and explain your motion.
Representative John Burris
Unverified
11:18
You're recognized, Mr. Burrish. Thank you, Mr. Parliamentarian. I agree with what the Speaker said. We all find ourselves in a very difficult situation today, and it would be the first of many tough decisions that we have to make as a body. The purpose of my motion is to simply send the election of District 83 to the Claims Commission which I believe is the appropriate authority to interpret the
results I believe it provides due justice to the voters of the district to both the candidates involved and also helps to instill the honor that we all believe that we need to uphold for this institution it's a very basic a basic principle of our democracy that vote should be counted and that is the purpose of my motion and I'd be happy to answer any questions. You've heard an explanation
Speaker 8
12:20
of the motion. Are there any questions of Mr. Burris? Anyone want to speak
against the motion? Mr. Edwards, you're recognized to speak against the motion to come
Representative John Charles Edwards
Unverified
12:42
to the of the house you're recognized mr edwards thank you mr
parliamentarian my good friend mr burris i too share your concerns about making sure we do everything right i think we can do that without having a delay today the state claims commission for any of us at any
time anyone can file a claim contesting our eligibility or fitness to serve the other party has 20 days to respond and then as we've seen in the previous case we've disposed of today the commission can act i think at this late time this would pose an injustice to bring it up a delay however we don't pose any injustice because nothing we do
today as far as a seating goes would still would prevent anyone from their right to file such a complaint if they wished so i think we've preserved the right for individuals to file complaint but we're not i don't think we're imposing injustice on anyone thank you mr edwards has spoken against the motion is
Speaker 8
14:02
there anyone who would like to speak for the motion is there anyone else who would like to speak against the motion
Speaker 37
14:11
Ms. Lee, what purpose? Question for the
Speaker 38
14:22
parliamentarian, please. Yes, ma'am. Proceed. In Mr. Moore's opening statement, which I appreciated, I thought it was an excellent one, he used the term that we as the House are the sole determiners of who we seat. Can you define that? Does that mean a court of law cannot be part of that determination? Could you please define that for me, please?
Speaker 8
14:43
My definition of that is that means that the House has the final action on the seating of its qualifications of its members. So whatever procedures that might precede that, in this case the Claims Commission or a court or whatever it might be, still the House has the
Speaker 38
15:04
final determination the way I read the Constitution. Can a judge interpret the qualifications as has been set out in law and the Constitution?
Speaker 8
15:14
I'm not sure of that. I don't want to get into the debate myself. I think the ruling dealt with an election and not the qualifications of members in the House. That was my understanding of
Speaker 41
15:26
it. No, sir, that's not the correct ruling, but I just wanted to know what the parliamentarian said on that. I'm
Speaker 8
15:34
not sure I can answer that to your or my satisfaction. Thank you. Mr. Edwards, you're, I mean, Mr. Burris, pardon me, you're recognized to close for your motion.
Speaker 16
15:46
Mr. Burris will be closing. There'll be no more
Representative John Burris
Unverified
15:55
debate after the close. thank you you're recognized sir thank you um again i'd like to just reiterate what i said at the beginning i know this is a very difficult position for everybody to be in certainly not one that we wished upon ourselves um i do i represent or i appreciate representative edward's comments i simply will note one of the reasons for delay is that there are several factors that i don't necessarily go into the uh several factors yet undetermined that we were hoping would be uh
resolved by our swearing in day it doesn't look like that will be the case and so there's um investigations and different things pending because of that i think delay is important to make sure that the voters of district 83 are most properly served and that is the intent of this motion that is the most important thing at stake that the people district 83 have their voice heard and that is the purpose again why i'd ask for this to be referred to the claims commission which i believe is the appropriate venue to determine what the qualifications of our members were we voted unanimous almost unanimously to write to adopt the claims commission report on
another colleague i would simply ask for the same courtesy
Speaker 30
17:02
here thank you mr burris has closed for
Speaker 8
17:05
the motion the question before the caucus is a defer action uh on the seating of district 83 and refer it to the Claims Commission. Mr. Clerk,
Speaker 16
17:13
prepare the machine. All those in favor vote aye. Those of vote, no.
Speaker 8
17:30
Has everyone voted? Cast up the ballot, Mr.
Speaker 16
17:37
Clerk. By a vote of 28 ayes and 60 noes, you have failed to adopt the motion. Mr. Edwards, what
Speaker 45
17:44
purpose? I rise to make a motion that... Let's hear your motion. I rise to make a motion that Leslie Milam Post be recommended for seating to the 88th General Assembly. That's a proper motion. You're recognized to come to the well and explain it.
Representative John Charles Edwards
Unverified
18:07
You're recognized, Mr. Edwards. Thank you, Mr. Massinelli. And for those of you who don't know, in case you ever get up here for the first time and feel pressure, I feel pressure for a number of reasons, one of them being that Mr. Massinelli is my constituent, so I'm always being watched no matter what I do. I'm watching you, Mr. Edwards. Yes, sir. Colleagues, I love this house.
I love the people in it. I love the fact that my first term, I got to sit next to Mr. Burris. And we went through some tough times together, but we were always friends. The first time I entered this chamber was as a child. I was a page. I sat right over there. I guess that's why, Mr. Steele, I like that side of the chamber. and it's always meant a lot to me it's meant a lot to me because of my family history
my great-grandfather served in this chamber in the 1920s he represented Clark County Johnny Roebuck his name was Norman Hobgood and he was a really great man and I was blessed to know him. He lived to be to the age of 108 years old, and his mind was perfect until the day he died. Not only had he served in the Arkansas General Assembly, but he'd been
a farmer. He had practiced law in his earlier days. He was a veteran of the Spanish-American War. He was the oldest surviving veteran of the Armed Forces of the United States at the date of his death in 1980. And again, I knew him well. Because of his age, he was frequently the interest of journalists. They'd like to interview him and talk to him. And one day, Chuck Govish, to some of you in this chamber may remember, he was with 11 Action News at the time
on the, I think it was the occasion of my great-grandfather's 105th birthday. He went through the typical interview about his life, and right about the time he was putting up the camera, Chuck Dovish looked at my great-grandfather and said, Mr. Hobgood, what is the reason that you live to be so old? And my great-grandfather looked at Chuck Dovish and said, why did I live to be so old?
He said, son, I live to be so old because I didn't die. Now, folks, my great-grandfather gave a simple answer to something that had more elements to it, that being the aging process. Here today, we're in a situation that it can get complex, but I think the final answer is it's pretty simple. Leslie Milam Post is the only person in District 83 that has no constitutional impediments to hold office in accordance with Article 5, Section 9 of her Constitution.
There are no pending claims against her and any entity that I know of. there it's true as it's been noted there's a appeal that's ongoing with the state supreme court it was filed on december the 27th and like i told my follow-up my friend mr burris i didn't know anything about election law until about that time and i struggled with all this But my struggle became less and finally went away as I researched the law, I researched the statutes, and I researched our Constitution.
I think we need to seat Ms. Post because she is the candidate that is eligible. If someone wants to file a claim with the State Claims Commission, they still have the right to do so. So just like with any of us, if anything happens later down the road, we can still take up the qualifications of a member. We are the only body, with one exception, we are the only body that can determine the qualifications of our members.
I do believe there's one exception, that if someone's convicted of a felony, there's an automatic expulsion. But other than that, we determine the qualifications of our members, and I think Ms. Post should be seated. Thank you.
Speaker 3
23:01
Mr. Edwards has spoken for his motion. What purpose, Mr.
Speaker 8
23:05
Garner? The question of whom, sir? Who's your question to, sir? Mr. Edwards, I believe. He's yielded the floor. No one down to take any questions.
Speaker 16
23:17
Anyone want to speak against the motion? Mr. Bell, a purpose? Speak against the motion. You're recognized. Speak against the motion, Mr. Bell. Come to the well, please. You're recognized, sir. I had a
Representative Nate Bell
Unverified
23:44
lot of soul searching as I thought about this case.
And on Monday, we're going to be asked to take an oath to uphold the Constitution of the state of Arkansas. And when I take an oath, I take it seriously. And I've thought about it a lot. And, again, as Representative Edwards has done, I've done my best to research the pertinent law and decisions that apply to this. And the case that kept coming back to me was Magnus v. Carr, which was also a Pulaski Circuit Court decision that impacted an election. And in that case, the court, in their decision, referred to Article IV, Sections I and II of the Arkansas Constitution,
and they stated that the Constitution plainly states that each house shall appoint its own officers and shall be the sole judge of the qualifications, returns, and elections of its own members. They went further in Section V of their opinion to state constitutional law, election contests regarding seats in the general assembly the judicial branch does not have jurisdiction to decide they stated the judicial branch of the state government is without jurisdiction in election contests involving seats in the general assembly i believe that we're faced
with something here that really goes far beyond any issues of the eligibility of miss post or Mr. Fite and goes to the question of the separation of powers. This legislative body is empowered under the Arkansas Constitution. There are numerous precedents that are cited in this case by the Supreme Court that deliberately or that clearly state that this is the sole orbiting body and that courts do not have the authority to make decisions relative to the elections of members of the legislature.
I believe we're being asked today to affirm a decision by a judge who acted without authority. And I believe it's our duty as members of this legislator to affirm our position as a separate and independent body under the Constitution of the State of Arkansas and affirm that the votes need to be counted in this election and that the judge did not have the authority to make a decision ruling otherwise. The people's voice needs to be heard. Thank you, Mr. Parliamentary. Thank you, Mr. Bell. Mr. Bell
Speaker 16
26:03
has spoken against the motion. Is there anyone who would like to speak for the motion?
Is there anyone that would like to speak? Yes, Mr. Garner, what purpose? Sir? Speak against the motion. You're recognized. Speak against the
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
26:30
motion, Mr. Garner. You're recognized, Mr. Garner. Thank you, Mr. Parliamentarian. members I'm I do not rise to
debate the constitutionality issue I think there are people more qualified than I to do that my my argument to vote against this
motion is that there is no action pending the house that would exclude miss post from being sworn in on Monday and that I don't feel it's appropriate for special motion to include her in the swearing-in on Monday I came to this house being one of a hundred and I don't think that there's any circumstance that would make it necessary that we have special a special motion or a special
circumstance to recommend that she be seated today that barring any other action by this body she would be seated with the rest of us thank you sir thank you mr garner mr garner has
Speaker 55
27:30
spoken against the motion is there anyone who would like to speak
Speaker 8
27:35
for the motion against the motion while the motion mr edwards you're recognized to close for your motion mr edwards has closed for
Speaker 16
27:48
his motion the question before the caucus
is to recommend seating of Leslie Post of District 83 with the 88th General Assembly. Prepare the machine, Mr. Clerk. All those in favor, vote aye. Those opposed, vote no. Has
Speaker 8
28:08
everyone voted? Has everyone voted? Cast up the ballot, Mr. Clerk. I vote of 61 ayes and 29 no's and no presidents. You adopted the motion.
Speaker 16
28:25
No other business before the caucus. Ladies and gentlemen of the House, I'd like to remind you, those of you here who have a computer or any items on your desk, to be sure and clear your desk so that we can make those presentable for the Monday ceremony. The caucus is adjourned.
Agenda
Call to Order
Documents
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Speakers
Speaker 3
Speaker 6
Speaker 8
Representative Robert S. Moore, Jr.
Unverified
Speaker 16
Representative Jeff Wardlaw
Unverified
Speaker 21
Speaker 24
Representative John Burris
Unverified
Representative John Charles Edwards
Unverified
Speaker 37
Speaker 38
Speaker 41
Speaker 30
Speaker 45
Representative Nate Bell
Unverified
Representative Ed Garner
Unverified
Speaker 55