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Exactly as spoken.

House Judiciary Committee

January 27, 2011
Video Transcript

Bills discussed (5)

Bill Title Sponsor Status
HB1222 · 5 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1222”
Pre-2017 bill
HB1045 · 4 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1045”
Pre-2017 bill
HB1021 · 3 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1021”
Pre-2017 bill
HB1004 · 2 mentions in chapter, transcript
Matched: “HB1004”
Pre-2017 bill
HB1010 · 1 mention in chapter
Matched: “HB1010”
Pre-2017 bill

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Unknown speaker 0:00
. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. . Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. . . Thank you. . Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Representative John Charles Edwards Unverified 12:00
Thank you. has to pay these expenses at this time. And what I'm trying to do is to put some standards in place and statute that will try to make certain that we're treating all council the same. And my final
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 12:50
question, Mr. Chair, Is there a set of events that makes this legislation necessary to be presented at this
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Representative John Charles Edwards Unverified 13:01
particular time in history? The Supreme Court case that was issued this last May where the court ruled that that's what brought this about. there was a question over what the expense or what authority the Public Defender Commission had to pay expenses, and the court, in a unanimous decision, which I think was properly decided, said that the way the statute was written, that the Public Defender Commission was obligated to pay for expenses of retained counsel. And what I'm trying to do is to bring some clarity to the statute because the court, in their opinion, was very direct in saying that they were looking at the clear and unambiguous wording of the statute in making their decision. I think the court also properly, in my opinion, did not answer a question regarding whether the state had to offer, make a defendant choose. And so what I'm attempting to do here is to allow that option to remain on how a defendant can choose. And if they can still have the option to choose their own counsel without having to forfeit the opportunity to have expenses paid. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Edwards.
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Speaker 8 14:29
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Walker.
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Speaker 9 14:31
Mr. Hill, you recognize for a question?
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Representative Nate Steel Unverified 14:36
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Edwards, just one quick question for clarification. I notice here at the bottom of the first page where it discusses the standards set by the commission under this subchapter, those standards are
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Representative John Charles Edwards Unverified 14:56
already in writing, are they not? I believe they are. But, sir, one issue I learned a long time ago, I let other people speak for themselves that have. And Mr. Chairman, I mean, I can get a head nod, but they are. We have some representatives from the commission here. Those are set in writing, yes. Okay, so
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Representative Nate Steel Unverified 15:13
we're not talking about just some arbitrary finding that could be inconsistent on the part of the commission. No, we're not. Those standards will be in writing. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Edwards,
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 15:23
just for record's sake, let's see who's nodding their head over there. Deborah Stallings. Deborah Stallings, okay, with the Public Defender Commission? Yes. Thank you, Deborah. Mr. Branscombe, you recognize
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Speaker 21 15:37
for a question? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Edwards, I think it's a good bill Looking at it from a non-lawyer I mean, when I read it, it was pretty easy to understand And now after these questions, I'm a little more confused on it But from a simplistic point If an old boy out here from Marshall That has done a capital offense And he's not happy with the lawyer That's been appointed to him and he can afford to go out and hire somebody in Little Rock, then the state wouldn't be responsible for that bill.
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Representative John Charles Edwards Unverified 16:12
Is that right? Well, we're dealing with indigence. If you have the money, this doesn't apply, but there are circumstances where someone may just have a few dollars that will technically allow them to, you know, they can get a, quote, unquote, a retained counsel, or someone could even be pro bono counsel. You know, that's the opportunity, but we're trying to keep all the options open here for a defendant. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 16:44
Thank you, Mr. Branson. Any additional questions of the committee? Any questions? Anyone in the audience wants to speak for or against the bill? Seeing none, I recognize Representative Eubanks for a motion. Motion to do pass. That's a proper motion. Motion before the committee is due pass on House Bill 1004. What's the pleasure of the committee? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. All those opposed, say no. Ayes have it. Congratulations, Representative Edwards. Your bill passes. Next on the agenda is House Bill 1021, Representative Lee. I saw her earlier. Oh, there she is. Welcome back, Representative Lee. We have a physical impact study that's attached to this bill, members. It's on your desk. Resident Lee, you're recognized to explain House Bill 1021.
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Speaker 30 17:44
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is one of those bills you are not thrilled to bring but is necessary. Basically, there are actions – I'm trying to think of how I want to say this. Please excuse me. Basically, all this bill is doing is adding a law enforcement officer to, as well as correctional officers, when someone chooses to throw bodily fluids or force someone to come in contact with bodily fluids while they're in a detention facility. As you know, not just detention officers deal with prisoners. Law enforcement officers also bring people into the prisons. And so basically it's just a bill that adds law enforcement officer. It also, the person committing the crime would not have to throw the bodily fluids. They would just have to force the officer to come in contact with them. we wanted we wanted to make that the bill as you can see it's a slightly uncomfortable to talk about as you look at the impact statement it can't be determined at this time
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Speaker 31 19:05
I don't know what else
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 19:08
to say do you have any questions thank you mrs. Lee any questions from the committee yeah
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 19:15
I present Walker you recognized for a question thank you chairman I have a the question, oftentimes prisoners are either disabled or semi-able or perhaps sufficiently incompetent to move and they may be covered with what may be regarded as bodily fluids. So if a policeman finds it necessary to move that person, is that an act that may be imputed to the disabled prisoner? Because the person is necessarily going to have to come into contact with the body of the fluid, he's going to be either bleeding, he's going to be full of either feces, he's going to be full of something. So does that sit that person in a position of
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Speaker 29 20:08
being charged with another crime? My understanding of this
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Speaker 30 20:11
is no, and I think that's where common sense prevails. Ms. Tyler, currently, is there a separate facility for handicapped people and they are handled
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 20:23
differently? I'm not talking about handicaps. Pardon me. I'm talking about the person who has had, who's just fallen out, who may not be oriented.
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Speaker 30 20:34
Pardon me. Okay. I see what you're saying. Someone who might come in drunk or someone who might just fall? Yeah. Correct. Well, obviously, that's an accident. That's different than someone who's intentionally trying to force their bodily fluids on
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 20:49
someone else. Well, you have here, though, purposely causing. Now, if a person can't move and someone and an officer feels that he or she can move, then common sense may cause a fact finder to determine that that's a purposeful act and therefore impose another punishment.
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Speaker 30 21:08
You know, that's entirely possible. I guess I would have to say that someone may construe it that way and push it that far. That's not the intention of my bill, though. MR.
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 21:24
Any additional questions, Representative Walker? MR. Well, I wonder how you address that, because you're really talking about affirmative actions here in addition to purposeful acts, aren't you, Representative Lee? Affirmative acts on the part of the person who may be situated, as I have described, and that person is trying to make sure that the officer comes into contact with his inappropriate bodily fluids. MS. So that it would have
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Speaker 30 21:49
to be proven that that was their intention.
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 21:52
MR. Yes. Intentionally and purposefully. MS. Correct. MR. Would you have any objection to having intentionally and purposefully be the language instead of simply purposefully? I guess you could say purpose and intent are
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Speaker 38 22:08
the same, but sometimes they may not be. MS. married to a man who writes
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Speaker 30 22:15
documents purposefully and intent, those two words have the same meaning. You feel they don't is what I hear you saying. Well, it would seem to
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Speaker 8 22:28
me that you're trying
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 22:31
to prohibit the action of a person which is intended to harm another person or at least to put the person in some kind of fear. And that is purposeful, of course, but I think that intent may be a little harder to prove. So... I don't know. I mean, it may not be a big enough distinction to make an issue about, but I think that judges and offices are inclined often to take language like this and liberally construe it so that almost any conduct is prohibited or proscribed and become criminalized simply because they want it to be
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 23:25
that way. Any additional questions, Mr. Walker? No,
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Representative Jim Nickels Unverified 23:31
sir. Next on the list, Representative Nichols. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This may help Representative Walker Representative Lee, would you look at Line 24, this is the current law, it has not been amended, but Do you think Line 24 may cover the situation that Representative Walker is talking about? Yes, it would, thank you Why don't you read that
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Speaker 30 24:01
so the people out here might know what it says Under circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the personal hygiene of the certified law enforcement or correctional facility. The person purposefully engages in conduct. So I felt it was pretty clear. MR. I'm
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 24:18
sorry, Representative Walker, Representative Nichols, do you have any additional questions? MR. No, Mr. Chairman. MR. Let me follow along the list.
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Chair Unverified 24:25
I'll come back to you if you have any questions, Representative Walker. MR. No, I just wanted to say I agree with him. MR. Okay. MR. Any other questions? Representative Hammer? No questions. Any other questions from the
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 24:37
members? Anyone in the audience want to speak for or against the bill? Seeing none, I recognize Vice Chair Wilkins for a motion. Vice Chair Wilkinson Do pass, Mr. Chairman. There's a motion of do pass before the Committee for House Bill 1021. All those in favor, aye. Aye. No. Ayes. Have it. Representative Lee. House Bill 1021 passes. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Committee. Representative Lee, let me remind you that since this bill has a fiscal impact attached to it, you need to make sure that's signed and given to the folks upstairs because it has to be on the desk 24 hours before we can sit it on
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Speaker 54 25:25
the House floor. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 25:30
Representative Penartz, you want to go now? You're recognized for – I'm sorry, wait a minute, is Representative Hutchinson here? I'm about to skip somebody. No. No? Okay. Well, you're recognized to run House Bill 1222 if you'd like. Thank you. Welcome to House Judiciary.
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Speaker 57 25:52
Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Vice Chair, Committee members. Let me say it's my pleasure to
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Representative Tracy Pennartz Unverified 26:01
be here before you today. I served my first two years on this body, and it was a great learning experience as a freshman, so it's my pleasure to be before this body this morning. I'm presenting House Bill 1222. Basically what this bill does is it's really a correction of the code in order to bring the code in line with what is in reality. We have three district court judges instead of two, so it's merely adding that language to reflect that we have three. And the last part, the deletion of the language, merely indicates we'll make Sebastian County like all the other district courts where we do not put specific fees with regard to this issue in the code. So we're stripping that out of the code to leave our local and county jurisdictions the leeway on what they do pay as all the other counties do. So I would be glad to entertain any questions, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that explanation, Representative Penartz. Any questions of
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 27:07
Representative Penartz? Seeing none, any one in the audience want to speak for or against the bill? Seeing no questions, I recognize Representative Wilkins for a motion. Do pass, Mr. Chairman. That's a proper motion. All those in favor of House Bill 1222, would you signify by saying aye?
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Representative Tracy Pennartz Unverified 27:27
Aye. Opposed, no? Mr. Chairman, my thanks to the committee, and, again,
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 27:34
it was my pleasure to be here this morning. Thank you. Congratulations. House Bill 1222 passes. Next on our agenda is House Bill 1045. Representative Hutchinson, you're recognized to present House Bill 1045, and I believe there's a physical impact study in your package, members. MS. Thank
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Representative Donna Hutchinson Unverified 27:55
you, Mr. Chairman. We're having a big vote across the hall in education, and I was instructed to come over here and return as quickly as possible before they vote on the issue. So I appreciate you letting me perhaps come out of order. Good morning, committee members. With your copy of my bill, you'll find a letter from Circuit Court Judge William Story describing a situation in our county. Mr. Owens, while serving in prison, began to file false land claims against those who put him in jail. The victims had to hire attorneys, invest money and time trying to clear their name and to reclaim their good credit rating. This was a burden to the victim, but since the crime's penalty was only a misdemeanor, it had no impact on Mr. Owens' life, the man who was filing the false claims. And it didn't matter how many times Mr. Owens committed this crime, it was still just a misdemeanor. I have other copies of where this was done. Clearly it was done out of vengeance against those who helped put criminals behind bars. Clearly we need to change the law to prevent this from becoming a pattern in those seeking revenge. House Bill 1045 accomplishes that change. This will protect all citizens by making the second offense a low-level felony, but it also creates a special category for those who make and enforce the law, filing a false claim against them in this section makes it a Class C felony. The physical impact is minimal. The Arkansas realtors have endorsed the bill, as other in law enforcement. It's a rather simple bill, but I'll be happy to take
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 29:48
any questions. MR. Thank you for your excellent explanation, Representative Hutchinson. Are there any questions from the committee? Representative Steele,
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Chair Unverified 29:55
you're recognized for a question. MR. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't know why I've got such
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Representative Tracy Steele Unverified 30:00
a short microphone here. Representative Hutchinson, have other states taken similar measures to this? Well, we
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Representative Kathy Webb Unverified 30:06
are one of the few states that has the penalty as a misdemeanor. All the other states have it already as a felony.
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Speaker 16 30:14
Thank you. Nothing further, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Still. Mr. Walker,
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 30:21
you recognize? I don't know if this is a real concern, but I was curious to – with your use of the language. You said the Arkansas Realtors as well as other law enforcement officers. I didn't know that the Arkansas Realtors
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Representative Kathy Webb Unverified 30:35
were law enforcement officers. Oh. Well, I thought the AG was going to have someone here, so.
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 30:40
No, I just want to make sure that we don't ever embrace the notion that the Arkansas Realtors are law enforcement agency. That's all. But no, nothing else. Correction noted. Thank you. Thank
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 30:54
you for that correction, Representative Walker. Anyone else from the audience – from the committee have questions? Seeing none, is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak for or against the bill? What's the pleasure of the committee? Representative Rice, you're recognized for a motion. The motion do pass, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Representative Rice. The proper motion. Representative Rice has made a motion for a passage of House Bill 1045. All those in favor of passing 1045 say aye. All those opposed, no. Congratulations, Representative
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Representative Terry Rice Unverified 31:25
Hutchinson. Appreciate it. Thank you. House Bill
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 31:35
1045 passes. I see Representative Woods here. Representative Woods, you're here for House Bill 1010. Is that correct? Members, just for your knowledge here, Representative Woods is going to send House Bill 1011 to the deferred list, and we are going to hold on House Bill 10-09 and House Bill 10-15 for further information from Representative Woods. Representative Woods, you're recognized
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Chair Unverified 31:59
to present House Bill 10-10. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Mr. Vice Chairman and committee members. I just wanted to say I won't be running the divorce decree bill, so half the room can leave now and and but that was brought to me by a constituent so he's happy that I tried so
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Speaker 75 32:23
hope he's doing well in his divorce
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Chair Unverified 32:29
he's getting over it but in the other bills that I had the other day there's some updates and amendments on those and I'll be bringing those back to committee on Tuesday so but right now I was like to discuss House bill 1010 and And this is something that's new to me, and I've had several city councilmen, my mayor and our city attorney, approach me about just the growing trend of graffiti and the cost of removing it. And I'm aware that there are codes or laws on the books in juvenile courts. But I was asked to run this to amend a civil code and just to basically just inject, you know, a couple words, damage or deface, which really narrows it down to graffiti. I can just give you a couple cases. In the district I represent, I have Johnson, Tawny Town, and Springdale, and it's a wonderful district. And I've really enjoyed my time in the legislature, but there's just certain cases where we have graffiti problems where removing a graffiti could range anywhere from $250 to $1,000, sometimes $2,000. And it's increasing, and recently we've had to go out and buy equipment and purchase a new truck or vehicle with new equipment, and it's cost quite a bit of money. and we actually have somebody on full-time salary removing graffiti full-time. So that's cost us quite a bit of money. We're talking about a salary, a vehicle, equipment, and then just the cost for each removal. So it's added up to be quite a bit, and we're looking just to somehow get back some of the funds that we're losing that we're not, as a city, you know, it's just kind of hard to budget for things that you can't get inside the mind of kids and predict what problems you're going to have in the community sometimes with this. And this is just a way to have accountability and also to kind of gain back some of that revenue so we don't have to cut services. And also it's either take it out on the taxpayer or take it out on those that are responsible. And unfortunately, you know, sometimes the parents, we need to hold them accountable. So I'm done for the introduction.
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 34:59
I'll be happy to take any questions. Thank you, Representative Woods. Members, I have Representative Rogers
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Representative Tiffany Rogers Unverified 35:06
first for a question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Representative Woods, I do agree with your bill and find it very offensive with the use of the way this happens around it with public and private property as well. However, I do have a question about the use of parents, and I perhaps think that it may be legal guardian might be a better term to be used. Wouldn't you agree?
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Chair Unverified 35:32
So, yes, I would agree. We could do that. That's a good point. Thank you, Mr.
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 35:45
Chair. Well, Mr. Woods, we can't take an amendment, a verbal amendment. We can go real slow if you want to try to get that written up. Or you want us to lay this on the table and we can come back
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Chair Unverified 35:57
and have this on Tuesday? That's perfectly fine. And, you know, I'm curious to see what other amendments might spawn up, too.
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Speaker 86 36:05
Sure, that's fine. Well, I'll tell you what, I'd
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 36:10
rather not go through the bill if we're going to amend it. And so if someone has suggested amendments for Mr. Woods, I suggest you take that up with him when we're not in committee. Since he is going to amend this bill, I think we probably should not continue to talk about it at this point in time.
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Representative John W. Walker Unverified 36:35
I'd like for him to explain before he leaves why this could not simply be a municipal ordinance. I mean, why does it have to be – why does everything have to be a state law when – Representative Walker,
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 36:47
I appreciate that question, but I'm going to not recognize that because we'll just get into discussion of this bill. And if he's going to amend it and bring it back, you'll have proper time to ask that question or even maybe ask it before he brings it back. It is your decision to amend the bill, correct, Representative Woods? That is correct. Okay, well, that being the case, I'm going to entertain a motion to lay this on the table, meaning it will
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Chair Unverified 37:11
come back to the same point. You know, I don't know what the ramifications of doing that are, and I'll probably have to get with some of the experts in the field to see what that would do. and how that might domino. No, you know, actually what we should do
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 37:23
is probably let you do a member's own amendment. It'll get it back here quicker, especially laying on the table. You can do a member's own and bring it back on Thursday. Sure. I
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Speaker 85 37:31
would just like to give Representative Rogers before the end of the day would be good.
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Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified 37:38
So thank you. That'd be fine, members. I apologize, but when we have an agreed upon amendment like that, we really don't want to continue to discuss the bill. I don't see Representative Lovell here for his bill. Seeing no other business before this committee, this committee stands adjourned. Thank you.
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Agenda

Call to Order

0:01

HB1004

1:14

HB1021

17:27

HB1222

25:44

HB1045

27:49

HB1010

31:48

Adjournment

38:03

Adjournment

38:03

Documents

No documents posted.

Speakers

Representative John Charles Edwards Unverified
12 segments
Representative John W. Walker Unverified
18 segments
Speaker 8
2 segments
Speaker 9
1 segment
Representative Nate Steel Unverified
3 segments
Representative Darrin Williams Chair Unverified
30 segments
Speaker 21
2 segments
Speaker 30
11 segments
Speaker 31
1 segment
Speaker 29
1 segment
Speaker 38
2 segments
Representative Jim Nickels Unverified
2 segments
Chair Unverified
10 segments
Speaker 54
1 segment
Speaker 57
1 segment
Representative Tracy Pennartz Unverified
4 segments
Representative Donna Hutchinson Unverified
5 segments
Representative Tracy Steele Unverified
1 segment
Representative Kathy Webb Unverified
2 segments
Speaker 16
1 segment
Representative Terry Rice Unverified
1 segment
Speaker 75
1 segment
Representative Tiffany Rogers Unverified
1 segment
Speaker 86
1 segment
Speaker 85
1 segment