ALC-Executive Subcommittee

A list of information that he'll be going over and i'm i'm guessing it's a slager as well. Random view analysis introduced yourself for record you are recognized a randy robinson arkansas insurance department rise manager alison happier cheaper staff department of commerce. The first while I want to thank you for the opportunity for two present to you all this afternoon representative world law mentioned slides I think my slides failed to make it handsome issues on tuesday having the blr uh receive my data so you've got the handouts and i'm going to reference those but in my slide show I don't think it actually made the agenda I can I can resend that again more if you want we'll try to get those to you but. If you allow me at least for effort to meet myself that's what I prepared for but I we i'm gonna give you an update on our property program and I really want to cover three different things in classic fashion three points now I have to start with the last same letter someone covered programs people and products products are primarily what you're going to see in the hand out. The arguments or insurance department risk management team manages to trust fine programs one of those is the arkansas public school insurance trust program that's a title six program and that is ca through twelve. That program if you look here on your on this on the screen one of the questions ask was what we provide and this is a property programmed highlight that the the covers what our program provides. It's a five hundred million per occurrence. No not every year I got it now father and me and poor occurrence for our buildings and described locations and then it also covers the deductible structure we have a six million dollars ago get on our public school program for wind and hail once we get out of our aggregate it does we have a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for wind and hail and one hundred thousand dollars for all of the perils once we exceed our aggregate those those line in the sand aggregates are were negotiated down from percentage when hailed adoptables this year which is really what we're trying to are trying to push us to but we hard to budget for percentage deductible that's a p- a percentage of the building value per recurrence per location. But we we give this and will go to the bottom here this this is free I don't want to you can see this when we go over this with all of the superintendents when we have our stewardship meetings with them ask them to sign that and we sign that also. In addition talk about to answer the question again further of what's covered I want to make sure that we also that you also need values covered and also the question was ask what entities were covered and that's covered in this property values of the seventy eight school districts there there are all listed in here to include all of the values that they have in the program to include how many buildings they have uh and so it's all on on that statement of values our other program is our arkansas multi agency insurance trust program in that's a title twenty five program that's for state agencies and that's the program that the hire ad institutions are in we have no separate program for higher education the higher education is is included and has been since these programs started even before two thousand and three and became the arkansas insurance august all multi agency insurance trust and two thousand and three and that's where i'm higher education has resided so. Way we look at it if it's got an LA a number as a school district it's on the it's on there. Absolute program public school insurance trust and if it's got an asus number they're on a mate or arkansas multi agency insurance trust similar similar. How light page again that we go over with agency representatives when we do stewardship meetings with them to tell you what's covered and again here is the uh this is a total statement of values for the mate this is not just the higher education entity so that that answer the question I ask and want to put that in here. The. The. Give me a moment to get to the next section here so that's the that's the the programs that we have and these two programs they are trust then programs the absent program with the public school program we have property and auto insurance that is funded through that program on the mate the agency we have property auto and cyber insurance that are funded that program they are similar but there are differences for instance there is a different aggregates we have an eight point five million dollar aggregate for the agency program and again a six million dollar aggregate for the political program different brokers on the different programs they are funded by the participating governmental entities whether it be school on the public school program and the agencies and higher education institutions on the funds that we receive by law have to go toward certain things if you look at the title six if you look at the title twenty five code we have. Would that right. Yeah. If you look at those it tells you what you can put those what we can put funds to but primarily they go toward claims claim expenses and are self insured aggregate retention and our premiums that's just kind of internet show what they go toward. Any retain revenue remains in the fund to offset cost in future years to pay for late reported claims for instance we had a springdale claim that went back all the way to may was a hale claim that went all the way back to may of twenty twenty and that was discovered in twenty twenty three when they were on the roofs doing an investigation of the hail claimant twenty twenty three so that put another one point three six million dollars from the trust phoned back in the twenty twenty year so we we do have light reporting on the program and again we do have the large self insured or aggregate layer on both programs and each individual public entity whether they're a school or an agency has their own individual deductible that they pay on a per occurrence basis our next slide if you were it would be our people and that was it was just one slide that's going to show basically an organization chart but we have under me that the director there's an assistant director and he does have directive authority over the entire staff but he does supervise our field team we have currently five rise consultants with with one position open but we have five on staff and those consultants are appraisers they go out into the field on a monthly basis to walk through the buildings to measure the buildings if they're new building and and they they sign the value based on the industry standard marshall and swift to the buildings that we have on our program and it's it's not a guess we we look through marshall and swept that way after river is a question on where we got value we will take them to the chapter and verse of march and swift and tell them what we have where we got our numbers we also have one risk consultant that's a lost prevention staff we had to we lost one a week ago today took another position so now currently have one on staff for lost prevention and now i'll get into the products of these. Individuals in a moment when I start getting into that portion but the we also have systems analyst and she supervisors and trains are offer staff she's also our risk management in information system expert and the staff under her we have an administration specialist that is a receptionist when she also does the data entry for our vehicle program both school and states of it if it comes through and it's an automobile ad or delete she will handle that we have two administrative analysts. That do data entry for the appraisers the president about the field and they will have field that are that they bring in to adjust the values on the buildings and all of that data has to be entered into our risk management information system and we do have one for our school program one first day program they can they can you know do each other's one can you state one can do school they can do both we try to keep it individualized just to the type are understand if if they have a call from a superintendent they they've been the one to talk to them but if they need to they can do the state person can do school work because and that's where we are now we added the university of arkansas system in july of twenty twenty two and our appraisers have been in the field measuring the system for a well a year and a half now really really we've been at it two years because we started measuring buildings before they even officially came on our program and we still we still got a ways to go we're hoping that we have all of that complete about july one with I believe we've just now got the point where we we are to the point where you have a fail and all the subsidiaries of them garbage gardens the UA system administration office here and came back village and all that will be is currently on the schedule to be worked. When all of that data that comes from uams or from UA monacello has to be entered and that's what these administrative analysts do. Then we have to rerisk consultants that work for our systems analysts in one of those consultants works the public school program one works the state agency program for invoicing where if we add a building and we need to invoice for more premium we do that we also have they also work that claims management on the part that we do as far as entering the claims in our system balancing the last histories and all of that is cyclical loss history balancing is a monthly thing broker reports who want to give a broker the schedule that you saw earlier of of the values we send that to the brokers monthly in all that has to be done by these consultants and then the final consultant that works under the systems analyst is the consultant that works the self insured fidelity bond program and the recently enacted self-funded cyber response board program so we administer the the two auto plans the two property plans to prop the cyber plan for the state the self insured fidelity bond program and now the self funded sovereign response boards we went we do administer a lot of programs in the wrist management office. The. Those are the people and now what they provide every building in our inventory with the exception of those you have a buildings that we haven't quite gotten do yet has a building appraisal report we do refer to it by the an acronym bar so if you ever hear is talking about a bar or not or not going out to our we're talking about our building and praise report this when I showed is just north of rock school district I want to get some little bit close to home case when I travel by and look at it but we we get the cost for square foot on the towers of that built they built this building and towers the that's the way they they want to bring it on the program. But if you look on the on the right hand side those of the appraisal notes so after we walk through we you go to marshall and swift and you go to section eighteen nine year and look up a class a building four point oh you're going to find all of this and how we get our our pricing data to include the parking structure if there's a porch we we break out the port separate cause it's not heat narrow so it doesn't cost quite as much and then all of the tower square foot locations is in the bottom of this report to we also in the middle it talks about the loss prevention features that this building has whether they have a fire extinguishers this particular structure does have a kitchen so you see it's got an answer system to put out a fire if they had a a fire in their kitchen over top of their cookers. All of the data that goes from the building of praise reports is fed into a statement of values this is just a little bit easier to read instead of looking at all of the buildings that north little rock on one or not building a praise report the district administration can look at this right here and they can see their values want out of balance adam broken down by elementary and location building we we have hierarchy so each each agency will have an hierarchy of how they're broken down whether the in for school it'll be whether it's elementary whether it's athletics high school transportation and then they can look up the buildings inventory that way. Yeah. And then our last prevention staff currently again we just have one but but they go out to the buildings and they're they're looking for risk and try to wet find a way to mitigate a reason the the appraisers go out to basically value a building so that if something happens we can build it back up lost prevention staff is doing everything they can to keep the building standing so they'll go through and they'll do a a walk through building you not room by room mechanical roams everything that they can find and then they put together these loss these recommendations for a mediation if it's holiday and read it's it's a kind of a fire safety issue if it's bolded it's another issue that it's you know that needs to be highlighted than once you get all of these reports and I just included one page of this report and this is from arms of state university mid south just included one page that didn't want to bargain on too much but all of that is aggregated into what we see here and this letter goes out to the individuals and this is called the last for mentioned evaluation report or leopard and it all of that data puts it in a stop light short. If if i'm the president of this university of the chancer of this of this system and I look at the second see that there are two buildings that are highlighted in red and they are there there have a higher risk profile so if I want to put money towards something I might want to put my capital in that direction first see what the cost of it might be to mitigate that risk you might be able to change an orange to a yellow but just putting a box at knock out in a you know for a plug in an electrical panel and that might change you know change that but bottom line is this this gives those agency directors and an idea of where they can. Fix remediate issues so that down at the bottom we want to move that needle back over to the green if you see that point make no bit there at the bottom it gives that twenty point five percent of the insured bags at risk so we want to move that needle to the green this this program is in place currently for the state agency program it is in code that we can do this for the school programs but because of the schools they they had elective authority you know they could elect to come in on the program or not and we want to we we we only have the staff to do this for the state agencies currently and now we we only have the staff or have the state agencies but but we are we are containing on this program and even though we're going to get one last prevention person on staff he is you know currently working to get his. Lost prevention reports out so that includes my overview of our program and open for questions. Thank you one reference that you made about school that you went back to twenty twenty hail claim on a roof is that in line with industry standards do they do that in the information. There are some there are statute I think the condition arms off three years but our program we want to make the schools. Hole and even though that hail claim and they didn't file the claim back and twenty twenty which I think we might still be under the three or statute but even though they didn't file the claim in twenty twenty we want we want to help them out but that's why we do have like reporting on the program there are some states that have much stricter time requirements I was at a conference last month and I believe there was a state that had a sixty day time requirement that may have been one that even had a thirty day time requirement I took some notes on that but i've I don't know about the initiative standard service we just we want to make sure that we help our entities with the losses that they are this follow up with it if it's good and get up on a roof if they've had a major hail storm concerned me on your last prevention that you do with the individual schools if someone will have more exposure or the way they're doing something i'm I take it you give recommendations yes sir we do give recommendations if they do not follow those recommendations what it is this is the increased car spread about a crowdly entire policy's across the state or it is at school paying individual price were again we don't do lost prevention currently for public schools because we'd haven't got the staff to do that but we do have if a state agency does not do does not complete a recommendation than the rate for that state agency would could could be elevated it would not be spread across the entire program no for its day dated yesterday it would just be the state and school for the schools we currently don't have lost prevention do you have anything you put out for best practices or anything yes sir we every. Every year at renewal we put together we have a cover sheet on our renewal packet that will reference three or four to five items for best practices and also we send out uhm risk recommendations of for. The time of the year for instance I think in the november time frame the recommendation in check your heaters and your vance for dust because that can be can can get you know can spark yes sir that that was where I was going with it if schools lacks and even taking best practices in in use bread their liability over everybody when when they read out step up like a business is transparent expect yet we don't punish the whole for thank you for the infractions of the one. So hammer you recognize thank you mister in back on the front page about the deductible I know some insurance companies have changed to where they're going to like one percent of the value of the facility is the deductible sorts of it's a floating deductible not a set amount is that a counterfore or desert have any relevant seat to any of this right thing you presented today yesterday we do not have that percentage deductible currently on our program is we negotiated that out we have once we finish our aggregate as you see a. Finish our once we get out of our address we we go to a point and I can't find that right there at the top deductible we would have a court of a million dollars on wind and hail that would be per occurrence and we would have a hundred thousand dollars per occurrence on all other parallels but the percentage when hail deductible the way those are rent written it is a percentage of the building value per occurrence per building with their end some of them even have a minimum clause where it has to be a minimum of a million dollars if it's a windhale event that's what happened at springdale back in twenty nineteen when they came on our program they went from a four hundred thousand dollars premium to a one point two million dollar premium and went from a flat twenty five thousand dollars deductible across the board to at two percent wind hail deductible per building per occurrence so that one one straight long wind could could bag bankrupt the district followed mr so that the concept of the one percent of the value of the building becoming the deductible that would be determined you've moved away from that or set still in consideration or would that bankrupt the district because if you if I look at the value of these buildings you know if you get an old fit main dollar building what that would cost as that will return to trying to move away from ours that were trying to move toward no sir we are trying to stay away from percentage deductibles of the industry is trying to push. Toward me okay. Alright thank you representative brooks you recognize thanks miss sharon thank you randy and let's see for being here just a quick question over in in a later document that we can see today to talk about the losses historical losses as you want to make sure that I didn't see anything in your presentation that noted that as you want to make sure that that that data matches up and so in the last specifically last year you guys say the twenty two twenty three cycle about three and a half million dollars losses still waiting I assume you're still waiting on i'm sure that's what metals are that's what the future presentation has lists your losses at about three and a half million for twenty two twenty three but twenty one twenty two at thirty six million is that your data match up to that and I pause if it was in here I apologize can a small eyes are no sir II didn't put the loss information in their brought it with me but our as of the report that a print in this morning and a lot of the difference in the what you're going to see from their report and what you'll see from what i'm gonna tell you maybe what school boards are telling you is is is the way that they're trying to figure out those numbers because the we have all with different columns on the way we do losses and in their close and that's one of the things that we will need to work with you know to make sure that that we get down the right number but that number from six point five was more in line of what we have in our property reserve for last year our actual total incurred for last year's four point nine. That includes reserve and what we've paid out of the fund. And then there's actually some some more that the insurance company is is paying for undown the road because we exceeded the arrogant but but our our aggregate last year. Also was three and a half million so that the fun will only pay three and a half million for what we have last year except for some flood we had some flood issues and flood on the school program only not to stay program but the school program flooded losses paid by the. Find that school phone do not erode the aggregate so so those will be on top of so that's why we're going to have a little bit more that we're going to pay out of four hour total incurred for that year for instance our flood it's not broken out here right now so what was what was the total loss for the year twenty two to the whole system interest paid you paid agreed right overall it's five point three five point five point three current currently what we have reserved. Sorry interrupt and that was a number about the looking for any other questions for randy while we have. See a nine thank you for your presentation thank you with that will move on to the archaeological board association property program and I think we have with this today uh shannon more. Miss more few and your team would join us. If you guys would introduce yourself for the record you're recognized to present. Shannon more with arkansas schoolboards association i'm the director of the risk management program. I'm tony prothero exactly direct of the architects about association. Okay good afternoon and I want to store about saying I provided detailed information to the consultant so my perception I was going to give you just an overview of the property program that we have with arkansas school boards association so. Our program was established in february of nineteen eighty four we currently have a hundred and seventy seven members at those members we have a hundred and seventy public school districts to open a romant charter schools and five educational cooperatives are three largest districts we have little rock school district with one point three billion and values for smith is the second they have about a little over eight hundred million in values and flasky county there are about eight thread seven hundred and fifty million and values. Our total insured value for the hundred and seventy seven members is a little over sixteen billion dollars. Our loss limit is seven hundred million and this is distributed over eleven layers so we have a self insured retention and deductible in the north type of that we have layers of insurance. So thirty five carriers participate to you get us to that seven hundred incorporate. It's a broad manuscript script form and what that means is it's tailored to me so we're able it's not a standard insurance form it's something tailored for school district's needs and the coverage is that needed it's blanket replacement and it does include or quake and fly we do have an aggregate of a hundred million for earthquake and a hundred million for flag. We have a as I indicated a self insured retention deductible of one point two five million we have this year a three million aggregate and I want to point out that aggregate that just applies to anything that goes into our reinsurance layer this year we were given a wind held deductible it's two percent per building so what was mentioned or earlier we did get that put on our program it's a minimum of one million but with our self insurer deductible of one point two fire basically it's going to be one point two five and it's a five million max. Each school district we have deductible options anywhere from bob thousand to two hundred and fifty thousand now as far as rolling out that wind held deductible to our members. Unfortunately we did have to roll that out to two school districts this year just based on their losses one was forty million i've had significant health losses over probably the last ten years to the sum of over fourteen million dollars and we collected only about six point seven in premium from fort smith and then of course the win school does struck that significant loss they did get a went held a duck or as well. As far as our program management we got our districts on it at three years the two and a half to three year rotation we in two thousand eight hard a company arkansas camera they do property appraisals so they will go out they measure physically visit each district they do an exit interview with the superintendent and what the gold lias we pick up every building every item that's on that campus because we want to know what our exposure rears. From that visit they will do dargrams that we provide to the districts also photos of all the property and then we update the statement of values which is what rainy was talking about any new district that we add to the program we do a thirty day within thirty days we do an inspection or console camera goes out they measure all the buildings take photos but one other thing we do as send out we use an independent adjuster as in that adjuster out to that district to. Investigator look at every roof because of hell damage because we're seeing in such a significant increase and hey also one thing we don't want to do to jeopardizing integrity of our program is get a new member and then they report a hell claim that's not on our watch so that's why we do eight and inspection for any prior hill damage and document bad on any new member. Our property values or adjusted annually for inflation so when we get ready for renewal we are at you one we get ready for renewal in april at update the statement of values this year we increased by fifteen percent based on inflation that is set out to our school districts to review the superintendents review it if they right now are correct cost of construction is two hundred dollars effort which is seems low based on the current inflation superintendents had the right to increase that if they want to and we've had several that do what we can't do because it's not a private business it is a public school district if we were any and based on the current inflation rate and we increased everybody up to three hundred and fifty dollars to four hundred dollars for food that would wreck their budget I wouldn't be able to pay that premium. Quarterly reports or provided to our insurance carriers with valuation changes we are with lloyds of land and we meet with them usually and march getting ready for our renewal and one thing at value is a big issue right now valuations and our carriers have been comfortable with our values. So even though we're not at the three hundred and fifty four hundred dollars a third because we do have blanket replacement we're going to take care of the districts but the carriers have not had an issue with our values. And as I mentioned prior to the renewal the statement of our usage sent to the district to review. Our district premiums it covers the cost of our insurance it covers our overhead expenses and then it covers our deductible and retention loss fine as for a starting and still on proper program management. We have three asba staff that run runs the property program I am the director of the program but i'm also handsign so all the master three staff we may take the statement of values what that means is we're adding property deleting property keep adjusting values keeping up with all the changes. We have one as I mentioned independent adjuster who goes out and inspects on losses like roof claims but is for as simple claims easy straightforward I handle all all of those all claims are set up in our office and all payments or issue from our office. That includes also if we have subrogation if we had one the other day a vehicle ran into the building that i'm going to subregate against that auto insurance we do all that in house i'd do that in. Follow up on the selection collect subrogation. We in house and write each district and we determine the rates and when I say underwrite what we do from the information we get from arkansas we look at the age of the building just standard underwriting practices that far class how how rule are they what's the exposure so all of that is done in house for us to determine the rate we have our base rate of courses based off of what our reinsurance rate is but then the underwriting factors go in to what we charge hard districts. Said we bill and collect premium and then we super reports to brokers are brokers and our carriers. The next fly is if you're looking at the slides it's not a bit the next slide is the loss experience you've got okay perfect loss experience and this is one thing I want to point out in the the numbers are going to be a little bit different than what matters presentation will have because of just understanding how our claims system is so if your notice twenty eighteen twenty nineteen on the left side the property total incurred under that total so for twenty eighteen nineteen we were out paid out four point five that was our total laws to the right of that I have broken out the insurance recoverable so an insurance recoverable for the eighteen nineteen year you will see that they paid one point one five one point one million the premium we paid for re insurance was six point six though we had a low loss ratio which is what carriers look at we were at eighteen percent twenty nineteen the same basically we were at a fourteen percent our total incurred in the program was four point three million re insurance we had a loss that they paid nine hundred and eighty three thousand. And then it starts bumping up a little bit just with the the weather patterns and which now we are seeing more in that help or where it used to be oklahoma texas it's moved into arkansas now so twenty twenty twenty twenty one total incurred ten point four million the carriers five point six is what they are going to have to pay. The premium we paid eight point five million. Twenty twenty one twenty twenty two our total incurred with twenty point eight million almost twenty one million dollars the total recovered from a reinsurance is going to be fourteen point three million the premium we paid was eleven point four million so we're over a hundred percent loss ratio but what is interesting about that on the next slide for that same year the increase that we receive was only twelve point five percent and we were added on twenty five percent lost ratio. And then this year her twenty twenty two twenty twenty three was the worst year for public school districts as for as a loss of course we had the wind tornado but it started december december twenty third we had what is called a flash freeze this was the second flash breeze that we have experienced we had one that year before in february to the sum of over three million dollars december of twenty three december twenty three i'm sorry december twenty third we had another flash freeze we had fifty desperates were damage and it's going to be about three point five four million dollars january second we had the jesse ville tornadoth that's going to be about three million dollars. March thirty first happened and we had when school district like I said the worst laws when we went out adjusters went out that claim was initially reserved for eighty million dollars. Yeah. We were in the middle of renewal we had gone to london and had an indication that we were gonna have a fifty percent rate increase which I wasn't happy with but based on what the market was doing I pay and based on our losses. We were about to buy and coverage and may first we get a letter of route from an outside out of state law firm that I was not familiar with and I will say was the first to ever happened to our program for our school district to get an attorney. And I get a call from london and the message argued the underwriter for very nervous about this law firm because they were very familiar with this law firm they're based out a tamp of florida they have an office in oklahoma oklahoma city and what they are known for is public adjusting and if you're familiar with public adjusting it's not allowed in the state of and one thing we have always when we have met with carriers every renor we stress the fact that public adjusting is against the law and arkansas and it makes the couriers very comfortable. Well with this law firm and getting that letter of rap the reserve on when school district went from eighty million to a hundred and twenty two million dollars and I was told by the adjuster the reason for the increase was because of the public adjustment forum that it's not involved so that caused the carriers they pulled our renewal we lost several periods so we had as I was talking earlier about the layers of insurance so we had to go back our broker had to go back and find couriers to fill the gay apps for that coverage for capacity but that not only hurt our program it hurts the state school program as well and the reason carriers were very apprehensive about public adjusting is because they repaid based on the cost of a claim. And so now it appears are sub limits that we have for extra experience we have twenty five million the temporary campus at wind is going to be twenty five million so it appears are limits may be exhausted which had a huge impact on our renewal um the next large in last just our rate history you'll see twenty three twenty four we received our program received a ninety nine percent rate increase. Which in tune increased of course for public school districts now every year the districts yep every year we do give a rate increase we always have since i've been on the program since two thousand and six we have usually about five percent. Rate increase just to maintain the integrity of the program the districts also get an increase because of inflation but this year was a year like no weather because with our program getting a ninety nine percent increase of course in turn we had to turn around and that's why the increase was so significant to our members. Any questions. Sooner hammer you recognize thank you for sure that for a letter not being a member of committee I was a google sewer public just in is because i'm not sure what that is. So it's illegal here but yet as a result of just a fear that that law firm has got involved in it has subsequently driven up what i'm interpreting as a cost in my right had an impact on our renewal and I believe how it is being done is the law firm they're consultant is national fire which is a public adjusting firm out of new york city so the public adjusting forum is who is on side doing the inspections with our adjusters. Had a set play into driving up the cost legitimately I mean you are you gave me the figures and the law firm what what's their motivation other than money to be involved help me understand that to be honest. How do they make money off that if there's a claim so if it is a hundred thousand dollars laws whatever their percentage in the contract with the district that's what they get that's the repayment. How do we push back against that attorney general good involved or what what you're I have asking just to be honest II have asked the insurance commissioner how it is being allowed in. I don't know if it's if it's because they're going through a law firm but we have public addressing in the stay and like I said that affected our renewal because our carriers have always been comfortable because that's the one thing they ask what about public adjusters and we're always no they are not allowed will with this laws now it's being allowed and or can someone that reflected that reflects on renewals now. Yeah. Okay miss chairman I would like to question my memory because the bottom of you deliver please refund risk bigger right now. Yeah I have it a few questions to follow up on that so did the wind school district retain the law firm. They did and so what basic have mean this raises several questions in my mind. It sounds as if this firm that that you've reference that that our insurance or our provider believes is engaged in public adjusting I would assume that their engagement is. They're monitoring how the claim is being handled the valuation of the claim such that if if there is no saddlement of the claim that they can make they will may be essentially and I guess an expert witness to testify if win were to foul sued on the claim is that is that where's my understanding correct I don't know but has we nothing was denied on the claim so when we got the letter of rap I was a little confused I can give my personal opinion what what I think happened and you'll probably read in the news when the tornadoe happened a lot of home owners were not insured like they thought they were there were several lawsuits that came out of that I think just be in the community there was probably a lot of talk it was a huge loss a lot of apprehensive I think maybe the school was just worried that they were not gonna have the coverage but what we did we actually invited the insurance commissioner to come with us to a meeting my broker and the insurance commissioner myself we went to the meeting and sat down and at the end of the meeting the interest commissioner told him they were in good hands but I still think it was probably just listening to the community and again this is shannon morris opinion listening to the community and just getting nervous and I don't know. How they. Heard of this law firm because like are and or can sold there are national law firm but they do advertise that they will help you with property clients well and then I guess the follow up to that is what I don't understand why the carrier. Would be I mean to me at least to questions about the carrier if the fact that a law firm is involved and that there is an expert witness or or an expert to evaluate in the claim that's not uncommon well the law firm that was involved london was very familiar with. And so they so but it it makes me wonder is there something that that whoever is our the carrier in this instance. What I mean what are they concerned about any big loss is going to have lawyers involved probably now I don't really understand why we've early on in the law separately a school district has gone out to retain a national law firm that has that type of reputation of it and probably it's engaged on a contingency or otherwise i'm not sure why they would do that but on the other hand i'm not sure why why that would necessarily effect. The renewal because if you're handling the coverage right. Then there should be nothing it shouldn't matter who's on the other side because the reserve increase so we have layers of insurance explaining so the next lawyer was a hundred million and that layer was not going to be touched well because usually you think if you're this carrier thanks for the carriers think we're at a hundred million look at their loss history they've never had a claim come and he were close to that will now back claim just increased into our lier which is a negative effect on if and if the chair would you be smaller way. But there were increasing their increasing its substantially just by the fact that a law firm is involved. That that does not make that I mean apparently that law from does a really good job if they can get an insurance company to to jack their reserve up you just buy their involvement that makes me think or is the art is our current or not handling our claims correctly on the front I mean I and I don't that just I mean to me there's kind of red flags all the way the claim because the carriers just are pay out but you're telling me that the that they increase their reserve the adjuster increase the result which is what they have internally are saying this is or at least my understanding is when you set a reserve it's essentially like look this is what we anticipate the exposure that we have based on this claim and it ended so having ultimately the damages the damage the loss is the loss the policy is the policy right so should it make that much difference that a law firm is involved on the other side if it if it changes that reserve to that extent. Then that leads to that to me that leads to questions about the claims handling that's going on across the board I mean that seems somewhat and fair that that one school district gets an attorney so now the carrier anticipates are going to have to pay more but what about everybody else that has a claim I just II mean I don't understand why why necessarily that they engage that law firm on the front but then on the other hand if you're telling me that's affected the renewal rates and that that is increasing the reserve then maybe that law firms worth their money because I just think they have seen as a public adjusting firm which is problematic and like I said earlier the the law firm now has all of our limits and their. It appears they've maxed out the extra expense limit for a twenty five million dollars campus that that's just what they're known to do is max out limits because it's more money in their pocket. So but but I can't speak for the courier why I can just ultimately ultimately if you don't agree then they can for they can file their first they can follow the direct action against the courier right I mean it all clear court can determine the policy is the policy the loss is the loss so a jury or a judge would sort out what is the true value and so that just I just did it it doesn't make sense to me that it seems like either the claims are not being handled correctly or there's something that doesn't seem right about it if you've just engaging a law firm his heads in has affected the renewal rate and has increased the reserves because of the interview that's why you have a policy and so I don't make a lot of standard blanket policy even with when school district their total insured value was a little over a hundred million but because it is a blanket policy is where the first insured is bears so technically the limit is seven hundred million. Okay thank you with the wind school district claims are not seven hundred million no but that is the policy limit on that laws because we have blanket coverage. No they would have to justify that. Represent brooks iraqis thank you mister chairman issues so thank you earlier for giving me the attitude to ask questions as i'm not a public committee and this may be following up on the same issue that's in our hammer was talking about speaker shepherd was so relative to the to the public adjusting and that seemed like a pretty consistent challenge here there were all concerned about is there was there any method is there any method for push back as it sounds like we just said okay sure what will take the excess limit get caught they have a twenty five million that that your reference that's costing us more than look like we've typically paid annually and losses stay wide and it if i'm understanding that it doesn't sound like there is that we're heading top of a method to push back consistent with what state lawyers even relative to public adjusting we and myself and my broker we asked the or can sell insurance commissioner about that how it was being allowed and. He is aware of it but as far as if. They have the coverage and if they present. Then we have to pay it but have enough public adjuster in bob just increases they they see. They've got a twenty five million dollars limit how can we get to that twenty five million dollars and they got to the twenty five million dollar limit did you say with with the temporary capacity as landscaping it has I mean it's very nice okay so we've we've basically allowed the limit and have have purchased with our insurance claim fines a twenty five million dollars temporary campus that will be gone in the temporary yes are. And it will stay on that as an asset eventually since. It did I assume that we're gonna be rebuilding the wind school dishing out hope that we do an intervening efficient way. A big abbey misreturn at some point to calculate so the insurance apartment can maybe help us understand a little bit more in depth the whole idea for allowing the public adjusters and in the impact that's head because it seems fairly significant thank you. Yes can an apartment be prepared for that next month and have the interest at the insurance commissioner here. More add that to our agenda for next month as well. Thank you. This. Sooner hammer you recognized. So based on what you just said nature those questions. The blanket coverage would have required you to stand good for seven hundred million correct yet like home quality so we yes they're coverage it's blanket like quality so let's just save well the high school was on for twenty three million and if it takes forty million to put them back like that coverage rate so the cause to replace was going be covered by your policy to fix the windscript district. Back to where it needed to be okay so if that's the case why would they go out and hire an attorney that was going to create. This issue. I cannot answer that I had no dollar with somewhere because they called me the day they were going to vote on it and just said he wanted to let me know that the board has reached out to an attorney to help them with the claim. And that's all. And the next thing I know I get a letter around and nothing had been denied but they said they just needed a consultant to help them. Even though. You were going to stay good for the total cost to replace yes. Okay with chairman. I'd i've got a couple unrelated questions to that you want me to defer down and they're in their quick question by sea speaker shepherd let up over there and he's member you want me to defer down thank you when it when it comes to when it when it comes to the cost to repair the facilities does the method that the school district choose to go about that construction project have any bearing on the caused of the the overall cost to the insurance plans at all. So like they hire a boldwood shell or nab holds or somebody like that in and a cost to replace per swear foot if there was if there was a different methodology in place for them to go about getting the work done would that have any bearing on the cost of insurer we leave it up to the district I can select what contract were the only stipulation would be those plans have to be reviewed by the adjuster and signed off on okay and then the second quick question is it's when it comes to your determination of the rate they're going to be applied to a district or your fonnel arrival at what to cost to the premiums are going to be. Does it make a difference where the scrutiny you mention some about raw fire rural schools while ago so for rural school has been so received by a role fire department that has a higher eyes or reading than maybe one minute powedy does that have bearing on the cost that's applied to them and also would have spirit on the rate that age of the building structure that's word if it's metal have you ever done a college comparison as to how much of district could save if they're fired apart that it is providing services to them had a lower rating or does the eyeshow rating even come into play to your determination of the premiums that they have to pay. Okay well offline discussion thank you they must miss bakery recognized you up to a few more questions in some of these may be for the insurance department and to be clear my issue is not with necessarily with with you guys it's with the carrier because I just. I don't understand I don't understand how simply involving an attorney and this. Public adjuster can have that significant increase on the reserves I mean I understand that use that they're saying well they're going to try and max it out there and try and get well that's virtually every insurance claim the person suffering the loss wants to get as much as that is they are legally entitled to and so you know one question I have is if if this is believed to be public congesting has there been any complaint filed with I would assume it will the department the insurance department would be the one that would it would govern that but I just add I don't I just didn't have in a hard time get my mind around that i've been involved in in as an attorney involved in large losses related to buyers and things that that nature and the others always a lot of back and forth and you know initially there's always a big usually there's a disparity between what the insured in the carrier think that the loss is worth but it just to me if it if it's having that degree of an impact and if you all if your carrier is bully it believes that that they that when his engaged a public adjuster if that's against the law than what's been what's being done about it means seems like to me like it can be the can't be one in the same right it's either they can't do it or they can and then on top of that if the if the claim is being handled appropriately I understand that may be getting an attorney involved they probably has an info in impact on what the reserve might be but if it's having a significant impact which is what it sounds like to me. That like that makes me wonder about how all the claims are being handled well it was the perfect storm as I said we were in the middle of renewal now this would have happened and november december I think it probably would have been handled a lot differently but because we were in renewal discussions it happened right it was just the perfect storm when we were waiting on a rate we were trying to get capacity we were about to buy and they get the letter of route so that's insuring when going forward. We are there still part of our program it's so. So they they engaged up in I just I have just questions of about about it but they're not going to and I mean obviously I want you know we all want to see the the wind schools rebuilt we want him to see them get the that you get what they bargain for in terms of their insurance but this this the issues you've raised and about this possibility of their being public adjusting going on and that having an impact I mean that just to me raises a number of questions probably probably kind getting answers to to answer your first question as far as a formal complaint that's been followed a formal complaint has not been filed we have talked to the insurance commissioner and made him aware of it but let's be clear the way you handle the claim doesn't matter what part you're in as far as renewal it's the latter coming from the attorney to the carrier that mattered that where you were at in the renewal christopher okay it sounded like you were saying where you are handling the claim for it. So I just want to make sure the reserves change years. Okay yes. I as she recognized the did other carriers change the rate to order to one carrier only. The insurance what it's layer so all the rates it's a later program so I do not know what couriers change but multiple carriers okay and i'm i'm appreciated to speak as he get through everything but i'm used to business world and benefit does something like that we get dropped. We can't buy insurance. Need to get back where you want to matter to read your you forced are you forced carry windscreens no sir i'm not but one thing I will say I and i'm just going to be very honest with you up take this very personally because i've never had this happen before but we are here to take your districts and be honest if we would have dropped them I don't know if they would have found coverage based on the loss they had not think that I hope they would think about their because what they caused. In bringing in what may be maybe an illegal practice. They've caused everybody more expense when they were getting taken care of it was a factor I mean like I said earlier we were already going to see because of the market at fifty percent our indication was a fifty percent increase but it was just the perfect storm when that letter of rep kang. Thank you. Sugar hammer you recognize a really appreciate mister are just I just can't get around understanding that if it's not allowed in the state of arkansas it's not legal as state of arkansas why we have to comply. With that in our we only state in the union that doesn't allow them. That i'm not sure that would be a question for the insurance department under public adjusting is allowed in bordering states it's allowed in texas it's allowed in oklahoma it's a loud in mississippi I believe and florida so it is a common practice in other site I don't know if we're the only state that it's not allowed I don't have that answer would would you lose any of the carriers that you you lies if you said we're not going to we're not gonna honour that I mean could they drop you as well as you could drop them and i'm trying to my mind around why we're being forced to do something that is illegal in the state of arkansas and why you can't push back or just say we're not going to honor that that's one twenty one I think that would be a question for our insurance commissioner to be able to say that okay I want to be clear we're going to have that opportunity to computer and that and we're going to give him a month to prepare at the interest parliament and get the answers from we end and what we need to do but I think that determination definitely needs to be brought to the committee and where we're at that any further questions from the committee. I do have one question walked me through the revenue of this particular piece of school board association and what this means to the school board association as a whole and tony am so glad you're here today to answer that. So we have add the archaeological word association we have I believe it's four different entities that have that are separate entities that all have their own artists one of them is the arkansas school board sociation operations which that's our pd that we do it's policy services and other things then we have the workers compensation insurance program that is a separate stand alone property risk management property insurance is a stand alone and then we have a student foundation that that is a stand alone so we pull off the expenses for the property insurance and we roll on it and it's a pass through for us. So that's that that this is to service to our to our school districts it would ultimately lat the have an adverse effect on us because we charge out for the number of offices that we have we charge for percentage for telephone lines to that entity the whatever it costs utilities is pro write it off for the for those incidents there but at the end of the day we don't have stock holders and we don't use that to support other programs it's simply a past three so you pay the employees are you pay the employees you pay the rent yesterday to the system that we get it reimbursed back to us we pay the expenses and the there is then real reimbursed back to aspa representative brooks you recognize thank you mr share in sort of continue to believe really issues required to the idea of and is just prominent saying the idea of public adjuster to that come up at all prior to when hiring an attorney was at mentioned in any way who discussions and anyway the I will say I did receive a call when the wind lost happened from and I want to say it was from the governor's office I do not remember who called but ask you they could hire a consultant or if a consultant could be hired to help when school district with their claim and ask what like what help and they suggest to console and help with the claim they the person I spoke to an apologies I don't remember the name but they stated that they had checked with the arkansas insurance department and that that was not allowed as the arkansas insurance department but when school district was not part of that program they were part of our program so could this be dine and I said it sounds like you're talking about a public adjuster and that's not allowed in arkansas so that's the only conversation that was hard. Thank you mister chair. Thank you as and they can tell me for their explanation. So before before we bring roberts lee our consultant forward. I want I want to say something to the stake holders as we go through this thirty. Where we're going to go through it and we're gonna adopt a calendar here in a few minutes and I think we may have already end up to discounter. I would love for you guys to be present in the room obviously we can't watch the meetings because we want the input from stake odors to make sure that we're staying on the train tracks and we stay on to give the best we can to our school districts and hire it as we go forward so it's going to be paramount to have the participation from tony in your group and shannon and randy and department to make sure that we are we do this right and we do it right to serve the kids at the state and the college students with that are mister roberts you guys can come to da. So you guys would introduce yourself for record and you recognize start. The. Okay robertson they president of matters items and lee insurance. Kyle morgan I do public entities and matters in the insurance claim lamberth matters energy. So first I just want to say thank you to the committee. For the opportunity to take on this project it's not lost on any of us the historical significance of what we're participating in. We're very very excited and honored to have been selected and we intend to do the absolute best job that we can to be is fair as we can be and to do what's in the best interest of the public education system of the state. To anything you want to say instrument. Okay. Okay. So if you work. So are overwriting i'm not gonna read to you or objective you can you can read what we're attempting to do here but. I think that one of the things about insurance. Is that insurance can be pretty complicated as we just experienced and we all listened to the challenges that shannon faced with claim that she had and when how that impacted her insurance renewal and the a lot of the dynamics that are involved in in some of these negotiations and insurance can be a very complex world in our goal for this committee is going to be to take what appears to be a complex problem we have you know thousands of buildings spread over hundreds of miles we have you know different programs with different strategies on how their value similarly structured but you know how claims might be handled and so we're simply going to try to look at theirs and do it analysis there's simplifies all of it so that the committee can really make a a good. Informed decision and and that is our goal and so what we're going to do today is it and I do appreciate the job that best program managers did an outlining and going over their program I think they did a nice job with that what we're going to do is talk about with the next five months are going to look like in terms of our study in the process that we feel like that we need to go through in order to produce the result this committee has asked us to result in so the first thing that we're going to tell you is that setting back and listening to the two previous presentations you know and you look at the renewals you look at the structure I really think that to simplify everything that that we're looking at and everything that this has been experienced in both of these programs in a historically they were really. Self sustaining they work pretty well perform pretty well frill for a long time. And there is a place in insurance where you quit trading dollars with the insurance company and you start taking on more risk so what we're talking about is building a state insurance trust that is going to have the participants in the trust and in the program funded by the stay except more risk with a higher attachment point which should help control the cost and control the spend and this is really not more complicated than that it's really about setting that number and setting that bar had a place where we capture the claims where it's sustainable and that were the insurance companies can lend their capacity and attach at a cost that's feasible for the for the program moving forward so what we will go through now is just an outline of what the next five months are going to look like sorry I don't do this a lot so the first thing. Is the process that we're going to do we really have seven steps over the next next few months first one is together data since we met with the committee are were awarded the bid there was a you know we were on ice for a couple of weeks really couldn't talk to anybody after that and we had data use agreements that had to be put in place had to be signed once all of that was in place that information was given to the arkansas insurance department was also given to asber and both were very responsive got the information back to us quickly and I it was a very large amount of data that we requested so we think that they did a pretty good job in responding to us and trying to be responsive to us and I think that especially with them on a data that we requested second is we wanted to interview the program managers which clearly there's going to be a lot of collaboration between us and raines team and shannons team going forward and really trying to understand you know even some of the things that have come up in this discussion today we did me with both randy and shannon on october the tenth uhm individually and that was it was cared it would gave us a really good comparison about how both programs are operated and then the next step is and we're actually in process of this is beginning to just organize the data there's a tremendous amount of data here it covers you know a span of years and in again hundreds of miles and different districts will then begin data analysis and we're gonna have to look at this data in a lot of different ways which will detail each one of these that pieces of this process. We're gonna evaluate an insurance trust and finding of an insurance trust we see that is the way forward to put together an insurance program that's going to be sustainable and then there's some market evaluation and you know as both program managers alluded to there is fluctuation in the market and as we get further along in this process we're gonna name about where the market is I wish I could sit here until you today that I felt good about the market are better or that there was promise in the market and I can't say that at the moment. In then there can be some unforeseen areas to study I give you kid example public is just he was pretty lively debate just a second ago and I think that they'll be you know some significant discussion we had some back there about that just a second ago and then would be prepared to percent to the committee or final recommendations on what we think the path forward looks like so that will be the process that we that we looked to I think that we will produce a more effective result for the committee if we are allowed to work that and stay on that process as much as possible so not that we're not willing to to deviate or do what anybody needs this to do but there's are the things have to have to happen for us to get the result calls going to handle the the next line on the day to gather inside of things after a meeting with shannon and randy and our data uses agreements and everything is figured out we started pilfering through all the data and they really did send us over a lot of stuff I know this school words association statement of values over like fourteen thousand roads of like excel data because it's broken down like building by building for all of the school border associated stuff so that's come the scope of some of like when we say we're pouring through and we're organizing the absolute date and as the data has never been like in the same place you know putting everything the same form trying to organize it all down in kinder in doing so we really like through seeing what we have and combining it in trying to start given some analysis and seeing what's going on we start to figure out like what else there is still to ask for like I think historical premiums on last program was one of them soft the top of my hand out there there's a few pieces that were still missing for like the big chuck for analysis and that's the in progress part. Randy and arkansas insurance department provided some nice risk control reports and valuation reports that they've done that I think will be of a venture stars and will have will make some additional data request and based on some of things that we've seen today that would be one absolutely and we're looking at the data we've gathered we really near the focus to the last like fifteen or twenty years and I say narrow very loosely but. So. On the program management think shannon and randy better than I shop of explaining the structure of their programs to funding there was a little bit given to the insurance placement process of procurement process that's something that will be understanding i'm attempting to understanding there was a little bit of discussion about the rate allocation how that's done both of those seem to be a little bit different approaches the property valuation process to different strategies there will be a valuating both of those staffing for both programs is very different. And then just the current resources that are out there uhm radio mentioned as that they were looking at investing in an exact mate program in our meeting with town that is actually used when when you have a claim almost all the insurance companies use it televalue claim and we think that's a good it could move we think it's a definitely as a good tool for them to have so will just be evaluating both programs and looking at how they're operated in trying to take the best of what both programs are doing so that we can make a recommendation going forward on what that might look like. The. So I kind of touched on this earlier the date organization is kind of working at hand in health analysis will have more meetings with the school word association and random get the pieces that were starting to figure out we still need. But where we're combining the statements of values and we're point through the law state and I think there's a lot of elaboration on the last data just us in here listen into that it's obviously set of a light to you know figure out in there all the different policies and coverages in the rate structure they're they're really too entirely different rain programs and the kind of I start to try and put him under one of brilliant tall task in then district size we're starting to really pay attention there too because you know arkansas very regional state you know you look at the your central are console like a public school and little rock is entirely different ball game the summer and the delta got explained that much more in them claim would you like the analysis yep so we talk about the analysis and it's kind of where I come in we look at the valuation accuracy. Uhm it's you know both programs have done a good job and explaining how they're they're analyzing that it's secure an issue in the insurance marketplace so we're not taking a look at the the accuracy and then you know where these properties are located is going to have an effect again they came up as a question how the rates are applied to those values depending on the geographic location it there's some contrast in the way that the programs are valuing and I think that looking at it from a single single source and applying martians worked for some other valuation program to have more concurrent valuations is going to be important the loss history the same thing a graphic on the next page and there's been some questions around how to show the losses because there's the dot was that applies and recoveries so understanding exactly what the gross losses are versus not losses and when we go to the insurance when someone the insurance agent remembers placing the insurance goes to the insurance carriers they're gonna want to know how much the claims were not how much that were recovered better deductible so we look in a different ways whether modeling is a huge impact on the way that the insurance carriers rate the national weather service has an office in little rock and we feel that they could be of assistance they've got some really great storm data that's actually publicly available on historical storms within the state in the concentrations the number of storms that kind of thing so we're probably going to develop some graphics that will overlay property concentrations the location and distance between the schools and then the historical storm win data that they provided will give you all very good visual representation of the analysis that we find. Oh so yeah the once when we look at this in in in there's been questions around the size and type of the district right and so how much of an effect does a large increase of fact the disparage between a small versus a large district in in what that means to those districts when it comes time to pay their insurance premiums so that's it's going to be important party analysis as well I think um. Next slide again this data is really raw it doesn't take into account recoverables it doesn't take into account the way that the the different programs apply that and so this is really what I would say is a gross number it's not that of any. Recover all deductibles that kind of thing in in in share and I thought about it a minute ago so I wouldn't put a lot of way on this disexhibit was just really to show that over the historical time period that both programs were operating in a way that was more or less profitable in that in the last couple of years that those are losses have gone up exponentially right and so the contributing factors the public eject so what does that mean how do we get to that point don't take this is like to the dollar but just as a representative of while we're sitting in this room today ultimately is what's led to that and we want to try and private provides analysis over how we got there and what we're there so now would add that we're a long way from really digging into that data in understanding the movement between schools inside both of the programs are outside the programs over that period of time you know one of the things it really matters to any of the law stated that you're looking at is the corresponding exposure basis where those concentrations were at all those times so as while we requested as much as we did from from both programs. Next slide so we're gonna evaluate an insurance trust in funding recommendation of that trust how that would be set up he know there's four different ways to look at this the current program is their separate programs I mean that's the way it's operated and we could get to the end of the send look at the concentrations and the challenges in the market and we can say you know what it makes sense to try to keep these things separate we could look at it and say it makes sense to keep them combined self procurement is always an option and i'll think that's something that we're probably going to recommend but it's something that we have to look at and then a hybrid of any of those three so we truly are trying to consider all options when we look at this and make the right recommendation to this committee. There will be market evaluation and rates based on you know appetite I can't remember whether it was shannon a randy that mentioned you know the the types of construction that were involved he had frame construction versus you know and noncombustible or may scenario or fire resist of type construction or you know what type of wind loads where they are so just appetite so that will determine what insurance companies may participate. Trends in the market you know in three four months are we still trending up have we flattened out are we seeing a turn in the direction of the insurance market will know more about that after the first of the year when insurance treaties renew in and january it will the tell us a lot about what the next year's going to look like and then there's already lots of information out there that's predicting what the future holds for the next year. When you have. Things like this happened and this is not exclusive to the arkansas public education system this is something that's going on actually not in just in arkansas the united states this is going on globally this is a global problem in so there there will be product innovations. There are people that come in when costs to get out of control and unsustainable and they come in with innovations and actually what we're talking about here by saying that state insurance trust is you know could be considered an innovation in the way that this is the risk is transferred in the way that the product in the insurance product is procured so and will be paying close attention to any other innovations that are out there in the industry that we think that might help us with solve this problem capacity have to determine you know when you're trying to ensure billions and billions of dollars of property insurance you have to and I london's been mentioned a number of times you know there could be there could still be capacity here in the US depending on where the attachment point is set and the size you know how the districts may be grouped one size fits all approach may not be the best way to tap into different capacity that's out there so there's she potentially us capacity european capacity or muta capacity and I think there may even be some capacity to take some of some risk in asia as well so those are things that will also be looking at yeah that'll be further on out in the study. And then we'll get our final recommendations and will provide a detailed report of all of our analysis of course to. To the committee in any supporting information or anything that we develop along the way obviously a bland committee into the state recommendation of the insurance trust and instructor and then a defined process for how what the risk transfer process looks like moving forward and so that'll be a part of our final recommendations that we make in march. The next immediate action that we have is to continue gathering of data and to can really organize the data in data analysis for the next meeting I know there's already some plans to have the arkansas insurance commissioner here think there'll be a lot of discussion around public adjusting at the hex meeting but we will be prepared to give a report on where we are in our data organization of the data in our data analysis and that'll be a pretty tall task for us to be prepared for just a month from now it's a lot to get through so I do want to give thanks to all the members of the committee also want to give thanks to in a bed shannon more in randy robinson. Initial take on others while this is a significant problem and has been a big problem for the the schools and the cost has been something that you know has put us all where we are. Everybody probably did the best they could with the hand they were dealt. And that's just our initial tape on it so anyway having said that we're here to answer any questions this is what our process looks like we hope that you will do work with us to to stay on task the best that you can thank you. Soon rise recognize. Thank you appreciate yours presentation in in I thank you very much little bit of it as far as the industry coming up with new ideas now is is that pretty much the norm outside of arkansas to wait for the industry to drive you know billing material changes all these of certain things listening to the other presentations here we target prepared for flash freezes in a lot of school initiatives those problems and uk always they should be hopefully winds billing out of different materials it might be more resistant to tornado but these owner school district rural school districts and I guess urban too but is there anything that they can do. On their own. In with there's anything it should be looking at in your presentation just like hail damage of some billing to have composition shinga rose now if they would go back with metal. Matt take you the problem if we get flat roof I don't know if there's rebarage roof stuff I hear about now that more resistant are issue somewhere that was saying this who just thought that out and thought if if that do you think you'll but in presentation that we could be doing before the after the fact the infringements answered you'll do this if you don't get a underwriter rate. The. Innocent arrives I think that's a excellent question. You know in a traditional insurance program and I say that people work with the hand that they're dealt I listen to the challenges on the wind claim in the discussion of that you know the policy governs the way the coverage is paid and when you build a trust and you're taking on a certain amount of risk there could be some liberties taken with how that language is structured and there could be potential to you you know in a replacement cost depending on how much in how the trust is funded and how much money is set aside in the trust that there could be additional ways to find you know some upgrades that might reduce cost and coverage when claims occur so I think that's a great point in that's why we had additional things to consider and I appreciate you give us something to additional consider today thank you. See no other questions from the committee thank you for your presentation members i'm going to elaborate on this again tomorrow in the report to council but as we go through these studies such as this one and the gun study going on and state police and game in fish I would encourage all membership to come and ask questions and offer input obviously these studies will result in bills that will become recommendations of council for passage so it's important to get all the input that is applicable from the membership as a whole not just council and not just the subcommittee at hand they are just the ones task with the study everybody in the membership should participate so if that we stand adjourned.