ALC-Game & Fish/State Police

Yeah. Before before we call the meeting door I will ask center patent if you would leave us in a word of prayer. Well thank you for being here today coming out of the dairwoods at least to be here for this for for those of us who haven't tagged out yet we're gonna try to make this round pretty smooth so we can wrap it up and get back home in time to get on the stand so if we can remember that when it's a time to ask questions if we can avoid asking repeat questions that can start that would be that would be good senator hill you got anything not. All right first up blr will be presenting a summary of the laws to us but as you know they cannot provide a opinions or interpretations of the laws. If you have a question that requires a response regarding the interpretation our application of the law I will direct your question to representatives of the attorney general's office who are here for that purpose so first up we would love like to welcome. Miss jennifer crown with ah BLR to present to us are. Federal federal far arm laws and also that yeah also at the time i'm sorry we have we have miss alex benton from the attorney general's office as I stated earlier for purpose of answering questions regarding interpretation but would that mean said mister for get a started good afternoon committee. I am dinner for crime as representative miller m stated i'm one of the legislative attorneys with the bureau i'm a sign to their judiciary committee and to this committee I was asked to be here today to present a summary of federal firearms laws. And m. As representative miller stated at times I may need to defer questions to other entities including the attorney general's office and alex bitten is already here at the table with me for that purpose so if I can direct your attention. Two exhibits c one and see two of the agenda the summary that I have prepared is exhibit c one which consists of. Twelve pages. And said this is a summary of both the federal fire arms laws and arkansas state laws that reference both firearms and federal law. We'll talk about those at the end. And I am just to be clear the summary includes only statutes within the united states code there are so rules and regulations that maybe contained the code of federal regulations and will not be going through all of those today but these are the actual stats use enacted by congress. So first off I have included the full text of the second amendment I didn't have to summarize that the full text is given to you there. And then the first statute that will talk about is eighteen usc section nine twenty one eighteen usc is the criminal code in in the united states code and so they are these are the federal criminal statutes relating to far arms section nine twenty one contains definitions of several terms and phrases. I've listed all of those in the summary. And if you'd like to work at the actual definition exhibit c two is the full text of each of these statues so eighteen usc section twenty one is page one of exhibit c two. The next statute is eighteen usc section nine twenty two. And this is really the the meat of the firearm stats use this is where most of the substantive language is contained related to federal far arms laws many of the federal acts that have been enacted over the years related to firearms ended up being cadified here for example the gun control active nineteen sixty eight the brady bills of the nineteen nineties the school gun free school zones act those are all contained within section nine twenty two sub section a of nine twenty two provides that importers many factors and dealers are firearms must be licensed. Subsection b provides that far arms in ammunition should not be sold to any person under the age of eighteen years it also prohibits the sale of a machine again short barrel dry full short barely shot down except as otherwise permitted in the statutes it requires information to be taken for purchasers of purchases or firearms including the name age and residents subsection c regulates sales that are not in person subsection d prohibits the sale or transfer firearms to certain persons including those who have been and who are entering dotment or who have been convicted of a crime punishable but imprisonment of more than a year those who are unlawful users of or addicted to any controlled substances persons who have been is dudicated mentally defective a person who's unlawfully in the united states a person who's been dishonourably discharged from the armed forces a person subject to an order of protection a person convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence. Or a person who intends to sell or transfer a far arm in further and civil felony. So there's all the things that would be covered in a background check which will get to here in a minute. Subsections e through I all deal with the transporting and shipping of firearms I won't go into all of the details of those right now but if you have any questions you can let me know and I can get you more information on those. Subsection j makes it unlawful for any person to receive possess a stolen firearm subsection k makes it unlawful to possess a far arm that has the serial number removed or altered subsection ill makes it unlawful to import or bring into the us any far arm with certain exceptions that are set out and section non twenty five. Subsection in makes it unlawful to make a false entry into the records that are required to be kept bar the importers manufacturers and dealers. Subsection in prohibits a person who was under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment of more than a year from shipping or receiving a far arm. Subsection o prohibits possession and transfer of a machine gun. Subsection p is repealed in less than a minute. So I won't go over that subsection q is the gun free school zones at it prohibits firearms within school zones. Subsection are prohibits the assembly of a similar automatic rifle or shot down that is identifiding a or two a rifle or shot down prohibited under an other law. Subsection s is part of the brady handgun violence prevention act it requires a five day waiting period before a hand gun may be sold to an unlicensed buyer. And there are exceptions listed there. Subsection t requires a criminal background check before a license dealer may sell a far arm to an unlicensed buyer once again that's part of the brady hand and violence prevention act. Subsection you mixed it a moff or two steel or unlawfully taker carrier way from a license dealer in poor manufacturer a far arm that has been shipped or transported and interstate commerce. Subsection x prohibits the sale of a far arm arm sorry a hand gun. To agent. Subsection why. Permits an alien who is admitted into the united states under a non immigrant visa to foul a petition for permission to acquire and possess a firearm subsection g z requires a secure gun storage or a safety device to be used when handguns are. Transferred. Eighteen usc section nine twenty three sets out licensing requirements for importers manufacturers and dealers of far arms. It sets out the requirements and the process for obtaining the license it also contains procedures for the revocation of a license and for appealing the denial of a license. Eighteen usc section nine twenty four sets out the penalties for violations of these offenses both imprisonment and fines there are some enhanced penalties included there's also a procedure in this section for the seizure seizure and forfeiture of a far arm used in an offense. And their increased penalties when an offender has three or more previous convictions under the uh under this chapter. Eighteen usc section nine twenty five. Provides that this chapter does not apply to sale afar arms to the us government. It also provides that a person who is prohibited from possessing a far arm may apply to the united states attorney general for relief from that prohibition and if denard may petition the federal court. Umm it sets out the requirements for importing a firearm in the into the united states and if they are being used for scientific or research purposes if it's an service them all if it's used for sporting purposes if it was previously taken out of the united states by the same person who is asking to bring it back in. Eighteen usc section nine twenty five a. Provides a remedy for someone who is denied the right to purchase or possess a firearm due to erroneous information contained in a criminal background check it allows them to file a civil action against the united states or other political subdivision responsible for the erroneous denial. Eighteen usc section nine twenty five b provides it when a person is denound the right to purchase the firearm or ammunition based on the national instant criminal background check the united states attorney general shell notifier the state where that person resides. Eighteen usc section nine twenty five c provides that congress shall be provided a report annually concerning denials of firearm transfers. Eighteen usc section nine twenty five d permits the united states attorney general to a point state prosecutors and state law enforcement officers to work with the federal government for the prosecution of far arms offences. Eighteen usa section nine twenty six authorizes the united states attorney general to promogate rules and regulations to carry out this chapter. Eighteen usc section nine twenty six a as part of the farm owners protection act and it permits a person to transport a far arm across datelines if they're not otherwise prohibited from doing so so long as the forum is and loaded and. Neither the far arm nor ammunition is readily accessible from the passenger compartment of a vehicle. Eighteen use section nine twenty six b. And nine twenty six c permit a qualified law enforcement officer as defined in federal law or a qualified retired law enforcement officer as to found in federal law to carry a concealed handgun. Eighteen usa section and twenty seven. Provides that it is not the intent of congress that federal law traps state law under this chapter unless there is a direct and positive conflict and the two cannot be reconciled or consistently stand together. Eighteen usc section on twenty eight is a separability clause it provides that if any provision of the chapter is held in valid the remainder of the of the chapter is not affected eighteen usc section nine twenty nine imposes a mandatory minimum of five years of imprisonment for an offender convicted of a violent. Crime or a drug trafficking crime involving the possession of a far arm and munition. Eighteen usc section nine thirty. With certain exceptions prohibits firearms and federal facilities. Section nine thirty one perhaps it's a person who's been convicted of a violent crime from purchasing owning or possessing body armor. Section nine thirty two prohibits straw purchases so a prohibits a person from possessing a far arm for someone else who's prohibited from. Being in possession of the far arm. Section nine thirty three. Prohibits the shipping transporting or disposing of a firearm when the person knows or has reason to know that receipt of the firearm by the recipient would constitute a felony. Section nine thirty four provides for the four feature of any property constituting or derived from proceeds obtained from a violation of the straw purchasing section or the trafficking section. Next or may found a total twenty six of the us code which is the tax code this is the these are sections from the internal revenue code. And there are several sections there that regularly the possession and ownership of far arms and our state law does refer to some of these sections in a few places that will get to in a minute. I have not included in the summary all over the tax sections because many of those are purely it imposes a tax and I didn't think that you'd want to hear all the old those details today but if you do want any additional information about that please let me know and I can get that for you. So section fifty eight twelve of total twenty six is a section from the national firearms act and it requires a person to file a written application complete registration with the federal government and pay an applicable tax prior to transferring a far arm. Section fifty eight twenty two requires the same thing basically prior to making a far arm section fifty eight forty one establishes a central registry of all firearms in the united states that are not in the possession or under the control of the united states. Provides it includes details of far arms made and transferred. Section fifty eight forty two requires many factors and importers to place a serial number on each bar and a person who possesses a firm without a serial member is required to contact the federal government to request that a serial number be assigned to that far arm. Section fifty eight forty three requires importers many factors and dealers to keep records of all firearms transactions. Section fifty eight forty four prohibits the inpution of far arms with certain exceptions as we have talked about. Twenty six usa section and fifty eight forty five contains several definitions related to far arms including firearm machine guy and rifle shot gun and our state law das adopted some of these definitions. Twenty six usc section fifty eight forty eight provides an information provided in an application may not be used as evidence against that person. Twenty six usc fifty eight sixty one prohibits far arms transactions that don't comply with with the national firms act. And section fifty eight seventy two provides for four future of firearms that are in violation of this chapter. So next will move on to the state law statues that are referenced here and so these are statistics within the arkansas code that referred to guns or firearms and also refer to federal law. The first one is section. Four twenty one one oh three of the arkansas code which provides that a personal far arm far arm excessory or ammunition that is many factored in arkansas and remains within the borders of arkansas is not subject to federal law. Section at four twenty one one oh five prohibits a state agency or agent at the united states and the united states government. From enforcing a federal law that was created. Or effective honor after january one twenty twenty one related to a personal fire or accessory or ammunition that remain within the borders of the state. Section five twenty six three thirteen requires a court to notify a person who's convicted of a misdemeanor domestic violence offense that it is unlawful for here to possess a far arm or munition federal law. Section five seventy three one twelve requires a chief law enforcement officer to certify whether a person within the jurisdiction is prohibited by law from receiving or manufacturing a firearm when that certification is required by federal law and this section refers to the definition of far arm that is set out in twenty six usd section fifty eight forty five. Five seventy three one twenty five provides the sale of shock guns rockles and ammunition in this date to residents of other states is governed by the gun control act of nat sixty eight eighteen usa section nine twenty one and following. Five seventy three three twenty four this is one of our concealed carry statutes. It provides that a license to carry a concealed hand gan shall not be denied because a person was lawfully exercising his or her right to carry a far arm under the second minute or the arkansas constitution. Sections twenty one one nine one three nine oh six are the arkansas sovereignty act of twenty twenty one and together they provide that. Federal laws and acted after january first twenty twenty one that inference on the rights enumerated in article two at the arkansas constitution are invalid in this state and it prohibits public officers and employees of this state from enforcing federal laws that violate this section. And that concludes my summary. Thank you thank you very much I know there's a lot of lower information and we will. Start taking questions now. Out mr. Thank you very much for for all of the work that you've done in your presentation and you can be excused now thank you thank you all right. Now center patent your recognized for question. Thank you mister chair so my question is going to be regarding the interstate versus interest state. And a lot of the us eighteen section eighteen us code a lot of those bullet points that she just gave us actually differentiate between where it says interstate sales are interstate. Transfers so can you elaborate a little bit especially in light of some of the laws that we passed it. You know if a fire room is manufactured in arkansas and remains in arkansas all of this that's object to federal law can you elaborate a little bit on that. Interstate versus interest date. Definitely soon or how how to apply. Thank you senator egg and getting think you co chairs alex bitten with the attorney general's office. And senator a believe the the quickest answer to your question without giving somewhat of a primary and interstate commerce cause just prudence is. The interest date is just as it as it sounds versus interstate interest state are things that are manufactured if you're bold and your help and everything is manufactured in the state of arkansas interest state versus interstate purchasing items across state lines and therefore triggering federal law definitions to apply there but I think specifically as you refer to arkansas law on the section what is it twenty one one nine oh four really nine o one through nine oh six is. Really a question that hasn't been presented to the courts yet but wickered the salbern might be the more of the most a the case it's the most one point there. Buying a gone through interstate commerce and if you are not buying a gun through interstate commerce is that impacting interstate commerce which is very cyclical part of me it's a very sick of all legal argument in something that the courts have. This clauses are is something that the courts have used to kind of bring. Anything that they wanted to intersect commerce and I really couldn't look into a crystal ball to kind of tell you how a court may or may not decide add this specific question of law but specifically II think what arkansas law has attempted to do is say if a gun is completely manufactured from stem to stone in our console that it would not be subject to federal law that that is my interpretation of the arkansas law okay so the eighteen using twenty seven where they were the federal government actually put in code. That it's not the intent of congress the federal law trump state law. I mean that's. I mean it's pretty consistent with the fact that. Where the claim that many people have that the federal government only has the authority to regulate under the interstate commerce. Yes I have I believe that's correct they're out I haven't dealt into that question of law in quite a while so i'd be happy to do some research and provide some supplemental authority where we covered a lot of ground and if it's okay another line of question just one more iraqis okay so on the twenty sixth usa fifty eight forty one. This is rs tax code I think a lot of my institutes would be shocked to find out that there's a registry a central registry. So can you elaborate or how much do you know about the central registry. The was created there and what was the effective date of when that happened I don't have any of those figures in front of me so i'm sorry I was prepared today to speak on are consulted state law but I can certainly find that in supplement that for the committee i'd like to know what the effective data when that started happening in and. As much as we can find out about that central registry but also how that would pertain to entrust eight far arms at never across date lines. Yes thank you thank you mister chair. Uhm at first time could we have a representative from state police come to the table so. The. They share mister very bad jump up there. The. By yourself for. Mike moyer service major for the state police. Tiffany like a summer literate for the state. Thank you very much we appreciate your being here. Revenue board law you're recognized request that you wish chair. Slightly off subject but definitely in german to the federal laws that we're talking about today can you guys walk us through the letter we receive from the department of justice over the medical marijuana when it pertains to a casual hang on permit and what those permits are good for now i've had some members got to me that are traveling here pretty soon and worried about how that affects them going across state lines and looking at the federal code here on interstate travel you know it tells you that download your gun have you bullets and another plays well you know just like I do if you're carrying a personal firearm and having a bullets in another place you you must will have a hammer in your hand because you don't have anything so can you walk us through those effects on the public finally can hear how that's affecting them on a day to day basis. Yes sir so the lettering received from a etf questioned the part about not asking if somebody it has a medical marine card and not the offset as the doctor denial there was a response from our legal department that was sent back to eightieth and currently to my knowledge we have not heard anything back so as of right now were under the impression that everything is exactly the same that there's been no difference or changes and resoprocity from any other states or are not being all the usure chl two purchase of firearm those were threats in that in that initial letter correct i'm sorry those work threats that were made from the feds in that initial letter if we didn't get in compliance correct they were asking the different. About the the new state law and that will be fun here. It says atf will re evaluate the are consolicitle as an alternate permit as a result of that process atf may determine an architecture sealed no longer qualifies. As an alternate to the next czech requirement thank you yes sir. Thank you mister. Thank you i'm next a rept are senator stelfa direct answer question. Thank you miss german. Up. A mac christian would you are we have constitutional carriage date. My understanding will first of all based on the less legislative session that uh you can carry now without they can see curious permit and then also that there is open carrier so we are a constitutional courier state. That's my understandable you can do that okay. Does that include a roadside. Like roadside park where people pull up and use the restriction. I couldn't near to that I know that they're still prohibited places but as far as if you can carry open carrying those out I would have to defer probably a so we still have a lot of convoluted areas in our law that need to be cleared up that people are confused about and police officers confused about I would agree would you agree with it you know when I read when I hear all this alex I see a lot of infringements. A lot of infringement upon our second minimum. And it bothers me they really bothers me because I read once for the only two enemies of guns are rusting politicians and as the light of politicians it's been involved in her our second a member right. It work constitutional curious day. You mentioned illegal immigrants. In the in at least that she was reading. They're not allowed to have gone. If you're not a citizen of the united states you're not allowed to have a good is that. Senator I believe that that was that question even anybody sir. I don't have to go back in and check but I believe that's correct because the the benefits afforded by the united states constitution only are afforded to citizens of the united states would you give me the definition of an illegal. The legal definition of definition about legal immigrant I don't have that memorize but i'd be happy to provide that to you so. Well let me ask you let me just make it planner. Are these eight nine million people who have come across our southern border. Would they be considered illegal immigrant. If they have not gone through the proper procedures so they are in legal immigrant so if they are cut they cannot buy a weapon they cannot possess a weapon. And yet every night on the news when I turn on the news there's been one of them have a weapon is killed somebody. An illegal immigrant in other states it's adopted it's happened in arkansas for that no. So. You're not keeping the guns out of the hand of a legal immigrant. And we got eight million of them that come across. So we got a huge problem there. One more question and that christian. Let me send her if you don't mind and apologize for we are we're here our presentation day has been about federal law we're going to have a lot of meetings and we'll have a lot of chances to cover other staff can sell handgun and all that kind of stuff so if if you've got a question regarding the presentation regarding federal law just I don't we can thank role a lot of a certain same page and I don't I don't want. Take this thing off i'll felt through the hayfield I have one more question not sure it had pretend to what about a schools on schools also consider federal. Yes sir according to the gun free school zones act so so if a father droves his child store a school zone and dropped his child off and he has gone on the seat he's breaking the law. I'm very glad you asked this question because this is very illustrative of why the work that we're doing here today is so important because there is so much confusion on this exact point I think the attorney general believes that overall our gun laws are confusing both to citizens and both and to legislators to attorneys and there is some inconsistencies between federal law and are state was specifically whether you're on a journey and whether you can have a a gun in your vehicle when you drop your child off at school and arkansas state law as we sit here today does not prohibit that but federal law does so it is still a federal crime but it is on the state crime are you breaking your breaking a federal law but dropping your child off a few of weapon that the constitution grant you to have under the second amendment. But back to sign for constitutional right to own a handle. And have an in your vehicle just by driver though that schools are you're breaking a federal law federal law yesterday. Not state law. What a flexible child he dropping off is a teenager who happens to be driving at school and he jumps in his dad truck who had put that pistol on the seat the child didn't know it. So he drove the truck to school parks it someone found it is that child charged with you from. I'm slightly hesitant to answer your your hypothetical just because I haven't done research on specific case law by a a point and I believe that there would be a charge that could be brought federally even though the child did not know the gun was even there i'm not sure as to the intent element that would be required I haven't I haven't looked at the mins raya elements in that sort of federal charge since the attorney generals office can't bring certainly can't bring any of those federal charges and I would have to be eighty eighty for fbi so i'm sorry so I couldn't answer that question but i'd be happy to to supplement that on the immense ray at intent element I have thank you thank you mister thank you sir up next and again more reminder by we can keep this and regards to the presentation regarding federal law today uh it'll be much appreciate senator johnson you're recognized thank you mister chairman and thank you for laying the speakers a non member of the subcommittee. Alex thank you for coming gentlemen lady thank you. My question had to do. With the. The section. For twenty one one oh three it says provides that a personal firearm pharmaceutical ammunition that is manufactured in arkansas remains within the borders of arkansas not subject to federal law in the new some other stuff about if you require an assessory it's attached to legally and it's attached to a farm that doesn't. Make the firearm you can't basically go after the firearm just because this accessory was added I guess it's a several bill day thing they're too different items but my question is if a guns may author other person using after shelf material were to manufacture a farm suppressor some people call them silence or if you've ever heard one you know they don't silence anything anymore they're more canter a glass back mother on hot ride but be there isn't why they do suppress the same are they legal if they're manufactured in arkansas and sold an arkansas never leave the state of arkansas obviously if you cross river and met this you may be violating federal law but a based on what we know today that you outlet bit outlined today what's what would be the status of that assessory. The. Senator i'll take that question I think you II do not know the status of a suppressor or silence or and but I again I will find out and I will report that if the the revolution of assessory and I don't know it is that something we need to clearly define accessory in the law of. No sir I don't but I don't believe as we sit here today that that's something that I don't believe that there's a big body of jurisprudence on this exact point and I believe that any narrowing definition could invite. Potentially a challenge so II think bit if it's accessory is an accessory and we can use common statutory interpretation principles in a court of lot to establish what the definition of the firearm accessories okay i'm sure we'll be coming back to this is some time thank you arch thank you mister chairman thank you center center clark you're recognized for a question thank you mister chair. The to the torn general I want to follow from center's doublefills question and make it a little more personal. Oh. So if a legislator. Visit to local school. And has a. The. Gone in their vehicle then we're breaking federal law. Yes senator that's correct and also more importantly if we drive to harrison which I did recently for a committee meeting and the committee meetings at a school. The. Then in less than on ormed all the way there and back. I'm broken federal law. Yes sir unless you were to park outside of that that schools and yes been more importantly who would enforce it will federal authorities being fbi or at and thank you. Represent scott registered new recognized for questions thank you mister I appreciate the officers being here as well as it represents from the states my question is really picky back on center johnson's question i'm looking through the laws it were specifically in federal law currently is a suppressor listed and the applicable rules and regulations associated with that where is that in federal because I didn't see it in this list. So I do not have that in front of me and made different blood on on that point to give you that specific statutory citation okay thank you. Reject long you are recognized for a question regarding federal laws are thank you mister chairman i'm several of these scenarios that you presented it's obvious that thorough losses it's you can't do it under sight law it's okay. Under the anticommon during doctrine. The federal government can't force the state to enforce their laws so i'm wondering uh unless an atf agent is posted at the school you're not any danger of them coming after you. That is unless the local authorities or the site place notify the federal government. Uh. Is there any. Ruling place for the state police where you have to notify the atf if you find somebody invalidation and federal law. I certainly don't want to speak on behalf of state police but I believe the second code section in your state law packet and exhibit c. One is a arkansas code annotated four twenty one one oh five. And it prohibits a state agency or agent of the state erm from enforcing a federal law that was created or effective honor after january one twenty twenty one related to a personal firearm via arm accessory or ammunition that remains within the borders of the state question you're recognized a but I believe the the school country schools own federal law was done before that date so in that situation with the state police we required to notify the atm. The. The. If phone we were say on traffic stopper got a report of a far arm then that would be a up to that local prosecution and attorney whether or not charge were actually filed on that. Ok since it's not illegal and arkansas we would have to worry about him powering charges in arkansas but i'm just worried about basically have somebody in arkansas law enforcement tipping off the atf that you need to go out to the markets or citizen who's not breaking arkansas. I personally have not heard of that being done before that just me personally. Thanks yes sir. All right. The. Well represent long return your microphone. Thank you. First time members and miss matten we appreciate you being here thank you I think. You have. You have very graciously and kindly offered to do a lot of research for members and we're grateful for that. Yes then sorry thank you for your blemency I just wanted to mark one thing for the members of this committee and. Specifically in let's see arkansas code annotated five twenty six three thirteen and that part of our console law. Mentions excuse me specifically references some federal law that is currently being challenged with the united states supreme court and the reason that I flag that here today is because we may after we've moved on from the subject of federal law have a case from the united states supreme court that could impact the work of this committee in that case as united states versus were hemi and what is being challenged there specifically is the issue is whether eighteen usc nine twenty two g eight. That section prohibits the possession of firearms by a person who is subject to domestic violence restraining orders whether that violates the second amendment so right now in arkansas if you have an order of protection filed against you and there has been a finding by a court and in order of protection has actually been entered in against you you are not allowed to be in possession or own a firearm so the reason that I flag that is if we get a june decision from the united states supreme court that strikes that down that may be something that I at that I circle back and bring up and so that we could look at potentially fixing that okay on that since you brought that sooner here you go question your mismatch and would you just go in an elaborate little bit more in detail to cannot summarize for the committee. How in the process of being charged federally and not state just kind of get a little more color on that so they will understand but then we have some laws out here that we've passed in the state. That though you could be charged federally on in go through that process for the committee yes are so. I think what I hear your question is is what would it look like to be charged with the state crime versus a federal crime and if I may use the example of the gun free school zones and. Just wait to be for consistency purposes for today and. The process there is that you wouldn't be charged with the state crime they're just there wouldn't be you wouldn't be. Pulled over or stopped by the school resource officer in in escorted to jail and charged with a state crime for possession in it in a school but if there were to be an undercover fbi or etf agent that sees that or if they were to charge you with that crime federally. Then that would go through the federal court system not state court and if you're in the federal court system then the federal law would apply to you we would not apply this federal law if you were charged under the aspects of arkansas state court system they can't charge you with that federal crime it's not near jurisdiction does that answer you. I am a question of a quick about the case that you just mentioned so you're telling me that right now in the state of our install let's say a husband and wife get it to bore certain that pro says and the wife for whatever reason. Request the restraining order me placed on her stranged husband for I mean. For whatever reason. Does that mean that that man just you know immediately cannot possess firearms I would be. Could you explain a little more more place. Yes sir so the process for an order protection is that the petitioner and in your hypothetical the wife would need to file a petition for an order of protection with an accompanying affidavit and that after day but she would sign i'm under other are and notarised and subjecting herself to potential perjury charges if she worked at to lie under other then that case would then be docketed and the judge would have discretion whether or not to sign an emergency ex parte order of protection and that exporter means we know that dad hasn't yet had an opportunity to be heard yet but under arkansas law that emergency order may only last for three days. And then it will dissolve by operation of law unless they have a temporary hearing and that is then if you're seeing in your hypothetical husband would then need to be served with papers and have an opportunity to come into court and to refuse the allegations of actual allegations the judge would then hear all of this proof and then have to make a determination whether or not these were true and whether or not by proponents of the evidence that the wife has. Proven her case and is entitled to an order of protection under law then that order of protection could then be turned into a permanent order of protection which cannot last under arkansas more than ten years and then if. There were renewed allegations of violence after that ten years. She could come back in petition the court again but it would be under that ten year period that he would be unable to own a possessive firearm however in practice in it before I was a deterring for the state there were many instances where I observed where somebody who had lost their fire around privileges would then petition the court and seek a very nuanced avenue and ask the court to allow them for hunting purposes and that's all within the judges discretion but there's there is a brief synopsis in overview of our order of protection process. Okay thank you very much I appreciate that and we appreciate you being here and and i'm sure we'll. Is there another question i'm sorry i'm sorry miss. Senator patent you're recognized. Thank you mister chairman just because that was a really good explanation appreciate all the information. Can you just comment on the fact that that nine twenty two g. Specifically says far arms that are transported. In interstate or foreign commerce saw me all of that only pertains to a foreign that's been transported. Interstate or foreign commerce is that correct. Yes so that's what would give the federal court the jurisdiction it writes or under all those circumstances with the divorce and everything else if. If it's a far on that was manufactured in the state arguments all never left state argues off. That it would be a moot point right that's correct and I would be I have not that I have no personal knowledge of any guns that are in this chain of commerce that are purely manufactured in any one state with not a single part being manufactured or so in in all actuality and an actual practice I believe that most guns are going to be in the chain of interstate commerce agree challenging but loophole nonetheless thank you. Hi. Finally filed up thank you miss for being here our. State police folks if you want mile would you stay at the table for just a minute and we'll ask we'll ask the represent from game and fish. And chief police association to to join you all the time. The. I have a feeling that we may have some questions that we be calling you back up there for anyway. A good afternoon i'm asked to move the director of the arkansas and fish question. Thank you miss both your recognition. Yeah just want to think this body for the opportunity to participate in the process as as we make our foreign walls both both are easier for our own law enforcement officers to implement in the field but also more consistent with our second minute rights and are and arkansas law as we heard the testimony thus far today and reviewed the summary of the laws prior prior to this meeting here anything that is a considerable impediment in the way of enforcing arkansas laws today as you know our game wardens are primarily there to enforce the long term start to protect the long term health of our natural resources but in addition to that obligation we also support every law enforcement or or organization in arkansas and with all that in mind there were no federal laws that we heard today that were impediments to either one of those obligations but I look forward to your questions. Thank you members do you have any questions. Either for mr both of game in face or state police. It you test for first every time I see no questions thank both your book agencies for being here and it will look forward to. Seeing again in december that being said we have anybody here with the service association and are sold apart from transportation. I am the prosecutor coordinator's office my bad. If you would start with the the prosecutors corners office go down this would you please identify yourself bob make me and i'm a prosecutor coordinator I wish chairman will likely be the representative of the prosecutor's association for future meetings as well I believe center here you have mister chuck graham more prosecuting attorney lonal county that will be participating in this this subcommittee he could not be here today but I assume in the future when we have more issues that pertained estate law that you'll hear more from me and and other prosecutors that I will bring with me today's discussion mainly on federal law we obviously don't have a lot to do with the enforcement of federal open out behind you to try to answer questions if there if there are any today. Okay. Thank you i'm lorry tator the director of arkansas apartment transportation michel david port chief legal council for the department of transportation. Awesome thank you both thank you both for being here mistaken of all your you all recognize if you have any comments or anything. How does say we're looking forward to the work of this committee there is a lot of confusion surrounding what laws apply and where does it but I will say that we there is no law that requires that we put any kind of signs at our facilities such as our rest areas welcome centers tourists information seen her so. As of october second I believe we had all of those sounds removed across the state so right now we're just sits standing back in waiting to hear the outcome from this committee. Thank you thank you for being here. We have any questions members for either of these entity. The. They got very much rip on it i'll look to say sorry **** for your economic sir. Thank you mister chairman thank you lori and director tutor my question as a a lot of the rest areas are on interstate highway. Is that gonna be used for see that is being a conflict or obstacle for carrying in the rest areas inside arkansas for our citizens since it's a national highway. Sir we've not had the opportunity to look at if there are any gun laws that specifically address interstate highways I am not from there with any miscrowns research did not reflect any that come through the federal aid highway system currently we are still offering just under arkansas law with regard to public buildings in facilities. Because those are operated as state property thank you. Thank you i'll very much see saying no other questions we appreciate you being hearing thank you mister chairman committee we're about to move to the to the public comment section but just a reminder that the topic for today's meeting is a federal laws as they are plot of far arms you will be permitted to provide public comments only on the topic we are covering today as we go forward over the next several months we'll take up several will take a bit different topic each month and you may provide your comments on those topics at that time so please keep your comments to the committee related to the topic of today's meeting and signed up to speak we have um mister nathan house with the **** armory of verifiers. The. If you would sir please identify yourself for the record and and welcome your comments. Thank you mister chair appreciated my name is nathan house i'm the general manager of arkansas armory I run a gun shopping and into a range it's a federal farm's license dealer over insurer word we run that business for about eleven years ave arkansas and sealed handgun certified instructor had been for thirteen years and we believe that gun shops and instructors around the state are you know help while that and citizens exercise our second amendment right in in without supplying arms and in in teaching citizens to responsibly use them you know the second moment will be more a writing through rather than a right in in practice at the same time credit a lot of jobs and and pay a lot of tax revenue to the state so thank you for the opportunity to speak i'm also happy to be an auxiliary law enforcement officer have been for about eight half years and i'm a class certified professional instructor as well through the state reason i'm here today is to make some comments on the relevance of the concealed handgun license in the state of arkansas as it pertains to federal law and our kansas rights. The three mainers I want to talk about is is number one avoiding delays are in the guns sale process it leads to lost sales for our businesses for for all fires retailers and citizens having a harder time exercise in a right to buy a gun in the state of arkansas also want to speak on preventing violations of the federal gun free school's own law some more information about that and facilitating curry on us army core of engineers property which was part of the cfr that be all are mentioned briefly but II want to talk about thirty six cf or just a little bit so at the the first topic is is about avoiding delays and as mentioned in all gun sells require the buyer to pass an FBI check or possess a valid permit from the state where the the sale is taking place and as we know right now the arkansas license is an exemption to that background check. So when we we see delays whenever citizens commend to buy a firearm ten to fifteen percent of the time and they're the reasons aren't clear to us we don't we don't get answers from fbi the access to why those delays occur but but we have heard as we talked to the leadership but then next it you know sometimes it's prior arrest that they don't have a conviction associated with it or or not guilty verics even though a person has been arrested or common names you know people that have a common name was somebody across state lines it may have a criminal record you know misidentified persons just overworked under staff fbi contractors as well you know can can lead the delays and according to the and that's according to nicks themselves and then many times just no discernable reason whatsoever as to why we get the ways in the gunsell process and so many arkansas seek out a consiler hang on license just simply to avoid he's erroneous delays because they're they're reading in a in a matter so it's a great deal and in all this in the farm's business here in the state because you know dealers end up sitting on eventually that that hopefully the buyer will return in and actually complete the sale and in by the gun that they said that they wanted at the beginning of the process and you know that assuming that they pass the background check and then actually follow through so many buyers walk away from the sale never return to make that purchase you know things come up the car broke down the it was an impulse that day that they know that impulse is passed you know their spouse said no you can't have it you know in so there's a lot of reasons why people get that delay they don't come back and pick up that gun uh just too saturdays ago have gentlemen from newport come down and received a delay on a firearm and so you know he's not coming back to sherwood in order to to pick up that young so and a loss sale because of that delay so when a buyer has an arkansas conceal handed license we avoid those loss in the inconvenience that's associated with it for for our citizens to be able to bargain and take it home with them of course act seven fifty sevens been mentioned already today in this committee in director the state police did not consider the medical marijuana patient. Status it told stick which did not consider that whenever they go about exercising their decision to to does that can so carry license e comply with federal off and that resulted in the accident in that letter threatening to remove the exemption status of our consultant license which means that people would have to be back into the next background check process so you know it a person. It is a prohibited person federally if they are a user of marijuana. And you know that bad federal definition they are any illegal user of a controlled substance and in marijuana as a schedule one controlled substance regardless if it's been decriminalized you're legalized for medicinal and recreational purposes within within a state so act seven fifty seven jeopardize the ability of our kansas to acquire firearms because where we've we've kind of carped out this exception for medical marijuana so I just asked that that the that the committee thinks about about finding a solution to restore the the exempting status of the arkansas and so hang on license you know after the eightieth inevitably resends it which which is what they are likely to do so we we import you to to fight for that status back if you can. The the second topic that I wanted to talk about just a bit more in in it's been talked about a lot already is is the federal gun for schools on act and with the passenger back seven seventy seven citizens have been told that the sole reason for obtaining consultant of licenses is resoprosity no category in other states. Well in addition to that you know is acting as an exemption to nicks you know the arkansas until hanging license is necessary for them to comply with federal laws in arkansas and as mentioned eighteen usc nine twenty two established the gun free schools out and in what that is that that one thousand foot bubble that extends from the property boundaries of all of our schools around the state and it is federally illegal for the for people to possess a loaded firearm unless they need an exemption. Or what are some of those exemptions well if you're if you're on private property like if you own a home that happens to be within a thousand feet of a school obviously you know the federal you know that the gun free schools are done apply apply another one of those exemptions i'll read it for it says if the individual possessing the farmed is licensed to do so by the state in which the schools own is located or a political subdivision state and the law of this date or political suburbian require that before an individual obtained such a license the law enforcement authorities of the state were political said provision verified that the individual is qualified under law possession license so unlicensed carry within a thousand feet of the school property subject citizens to risk five years imprisonment and find it it may or may not be lawn forcement that reports and it may be a concern neighbor that it sees a person you know walking past the school it decides to call atf and and make a report of it I think I think be all ordered a great job combination summary of it but they they miss that on on that critical detail about hey the can still handle myself is an exempting thing to the gun for schools on act. Last thing i'll talk about before I get my conclusion is is a core of engineer projects specifically thirty six cfr three twenty seven thirteen it is is another federal regulation of course it was not mentioned by by BLR and they did a great job they they provided a great summary but and they can't hit everything but it is applicable and it governs the the carrier weapons on our core of engineer property and projects so are kansas enjoy a lot of rate exceptional core of engineer projects around the state we've got the big dambridge and mary park it's you know here in central arkansas we've got you know great very lake like washington lot of great outdoor spaces you're in our natural state in the possession of loaded firearms ammunition you know goes on to bows and incentive to buy something. Our prohibited on core of engineer property in less permission has been received from the district commander of the core of engineer so we've got the literate district and and the vicksburg district or to the two of the big ones i've i've applied for personally and received permits from the little right district commander and the victory just a commander on on having permits to carry within the court property i've gone to the process and as part of that process the core of engineers wants to see a concealed handgun license issued by the state of arkansas before they will issue their permit so not having a permit subject to citizen to to risk of six months in prison up to five thousand dollars and find so there are certainly exceptions that are carved out in federal wall that the arkansas are until hanging license helps with helps us get around to so just in conclusion you know the arkansas consultant in license in its interaction with federal laws important beyond just carrying other states in it would allow citizens to purchase firearms at least still without having to go through the the background check process and getting potential delays and didn't and erroneous denials it avoids violation of federal law including the federal country school's own and then it'll it facilitates carrying us army corp engineers projects. I expect to be here at at the rest of these committee meetings throughout the year II appreciate them being open to the public and in the good work that this committee is doing thank you you know my customers are excited to hear about the outcome of it too because they know that arkansas needs to be clarified in in in I really appreciate your time and attention to this matter if if I can be a resource to you at any time if my business can be a resource to you please let us know and with that i'll just turn it over for any questions you may have certainly we do have we do have a couple of questions first is representing scott richardson you recognize thank you mister i'm sorry I didn't catch your mom in the beginning nathan house is my name sir house yes mr thank you very much for being in your appreciate you coming up to the committee today II just had one question for you do you do you believe arkansas constitutional care state yes are I believe that it is okay I was just curious thank you all right up next recognize for questions center item is changing that's like you know then for being here today you said it if someone wants to want to go on the core of engineers property are they they can if the manager ceaser conceal crew weapons permit yes sir that's correct if if a citizen wishes to do that then they can apply for a permit from the core and what is it what is that concealed current permit what is it gives that person over the person. Sir I what. I'm sorry II didn't understand the question what does it provide to the individual cream that goes. Today that someone who doesn't have one wouldn't have sure it it in provides exceptions within the law so that they would not potentially be subject to penalties from you know in the. Core of engineers or the federal gun free schools down and I say core engineers assuming that they have a also a permit from the core but couldn't I put couldn't they put that person's number in a database quickly and run their drives last night to see if they had any fellow needs any problems in their background it would cause them to have a problem with the animal core property with with a farm. I mean the only difference is you've got a piece of you've got a card it says you went to court. That torture to use a gun and many of these people that have gone under bid sheet longer than people that have cards yes sir yes sir yeah now the the uh the. Information covered is is you know in the concealed carry classes is what has been listed as important by the by this legislative body and also the the arkansas state police and so may we cover that information so that citizens are familiar with it but. Yet yesterday I mean people could could run a background check through acic or the national instant checks you know in in find out if they're prohibited or not they might get decision based upon there instead of a card yes sir I agree with you completely but regulations are going to have to change at the federal level in order through that to to be allowed. Thank you mister chairman thank you very much yes thank you michael say no other questions we appreciate to be in here near your dismiss thank you sight few time. Community that's going to wrap it up for today our next month. Our next meeting topic will be hunting. The bureau is is gathering information will have other entities and witnesses here for that the meeting will be on december the eleventh twenty twenty three one o'clock right here in this room mister reminder to the public if you're interested in providing comments we need you to sign up other online before the next meeting are in person before the meeting begins we will be happy to hear your comments and and possibly have questions that being said I say no the businesses meeting is adjourned.