Joint Performance Review (JPR)

Members yes I just want to let you know that we have developed a problem with the system as far as recognizing members to ask questions and be able to be miked up its own its way think of a quick feature but we're going to hold off for just a few minutes if it turned into a long deal. That evidently this is an ongoing problem is something that are our it department can not fix they have called the company that's been out here evidently several times to get this fixed but if they started working on it while we were in the meeting it would shut the whole system down and sell we're gonna go to plan be and that is this that if you have a question as a member if you'll raise your hand cobby will do is best to recognize you all members where do you remember this committee or not will be recognized to ask questions that would be my policy I might go to members first and then to non members that everybody will have an opportunity to ask their questions and what i'll do is you ask your question and i'll repeat it if it's gonna be a long question come to kobe's mike and you college my but if it is going to be a short question i'll repeat it so people they're listening online we'll be able to hear it we've got to match here we have to mark at the table that the members do not have my charges for that staff resures me they're working with the company to get it fit with that I would take consideration to approve the october twenty fourth twenty twenty three meeting minutes if I get a motion please. Motion second a discussion. On favor say I posed so do so passed in and now we're going to want to see which will be a discussion of the boys and girls clubs in arkansas like invite former representative chris richy chief executive officer for the boys and girls club of swing county to the table also christopher mcdonald whose executive director of the arts all asked for the boys and girls club would come to the table please. Yes and center petty has requested permission to join them the table and chairs going to grant that he has some comments he'd like to share and he's made himself available also to answer questions. And good morning to everybody if your word just a push to make sure you only need to mike at one time otherwise it causes feedback so if you were just stirkle here name entitled for the record please. Chris richie ceo for boys and gross cover slink. Correspondent donald executive director of the arkansas alliance of voice and gross class. Senator jim petty district twenty nine. I underthank you mister chair for allowing me this moment personal privilege i've been long time volunteer at the boys and girls clubs it locally they're in fort smith and van burn and in my role there probably have a broader understanding in perspective that i'd like to share with the the members of this committee in there's a a lot of supporters of of the boys and girls clubs in arkansas and they do a lot of good but there's probably a little bit of misunderstanding in terms of how they are organized and structured and I wanted to just kind of share that just a little bit before christmas and creasa answer any questions i'm happy to answer questions too but. I've been a member of a local club for almost thirty five years and as a board bimber also served in the state level as a chairman of our association of of clubs it's called the area council and also have most recently beginning and twenty twenty served in a row called the national area council committee which is just a big word for another volunteer that has expanded his reach to the national level but. The the boys and girls clubs of arkansas and and also the boys and girls called america operate under what's called a federated model meaning that each of their clubs operate under an independent autonomous fabric one c three and and basically what that means is each club each local club is organized and created and make decisions locally based on their local board leadership and and that's kind of in the strength of our organization air is that deep rooted connection to the local communities and yet there's this local influence in but there's a broader perspective brought her scale with the. The boys and girls clubs brand in in what they bring to the the kids across the community which are very across the the country as you are very well know but but essentially the federated model is there each local club has one vote and that local club makes up what is called the national council and I can share a float chart with you guys if you if you need that or want to have that as a follow up offline I can send it to to be alr but basically each club at the local level has one vote and and each club makes up what's called the national council that national council is what sets all the policies and in all the programs that are that are there for all the clubs to follow so it's it's the arkansas local clubs they help set the policies that then or are communicated through marolla and the national area council and the local area councils to the national presentation for the national. Organization if you will but there's no single individual there is no boys and girls club organization per se that that is over for lack of a better word all the clubs in arkansas they're all autonomous and so I wanted to bring that out we do have a christmas sheet. Excuse me she is our alliance director which essentially she helps administrator of the grants most the both the past through that we get from the national organization as well as those that the legislature gets through programs like tanner so I thought it would be helpful to give this broader perspective of the fact that there's really no single individual because they're all autonomous and at the federated model and and locally driven locally governed and they make their own decisions based on what's best for their community and the in there there are kids and that community so with that i'm gonna stop and i'm a letter with them speaker or you ask question i'm not sure what the flower they are tenerary is but that. I think what we're gonna do is give each of the opportunity to you know sharing the opening comments and then we're going to go into some questions the one thing I did want to clarify the there was an invitation sent to somebody from the national. Boys and girls club association to be present today's at correct or that was my understanding that the opportunity was given for somebody from the national organization be here that correct so yes we knew and I talked to the last time I had hoped to have someone from the national organization to be here to to share the same perspective that i'm sharing with you which is the the local but coming round out for the the vacation the holiday for thanksgiving with all of the other activities that were going on at the national level they were I was not able to get any of the individuals that I wanted to get but we can certainly maybe paid look at their schedule and and schedule a tampering to come in and either formally or informally at some later date it doubt because I remember recently this was set for like a month or so ago and we delayed it to make it a date that could be suitable but. I just want to get on the record that they were at least extended the invitation to be here but your speaker on behalf of them as a national representative or will each of you be speaking only as a state representative or will you be speaking answering questions if it's regarding national policies. Senator yes there was an invitation extended this week as the southeast regional conference so many of our representatives from the national organization that your request would have fit into their role are already otherwise obligated at that conference and and of course myself and senator petty can both answer questions that pertain to our roles but if there's a question that asked their app is outside of our scope and then it might be better otherwise best and directed elsewhere but i'd be happy to answer any questions that you have okay great. Chris you chris one want to go ahead making opening comments. Well decided to mean as far as opening comments some in the now definitely speaking just half on the boys across god slink out and was because girls plubs a sling game has been around for fifty plus years serving kids in archmunity we have four different to locations where we serve kids who have a club and bitten we have oh we also have a club that's located at the arkansas juvenile assessment and treatment center of their and alexander so we we operate a club if that facility though we have a club that's outside of the hot springs village when they jesse will areas with most people be familiar with and then we also operate it a day care in high springs a village itself and so year we serve over five hundred kids each day make sure that they come in they have a safe place to be in a err love honor many you know focus on giving them the so some physical activity instantly find things to do and also the academic enrichment programs that we try they'll focus on when we have on there and you're there's our mission is to provide a a great experience with they'll grow up to be productive citizens and adults and so by that that's what we do the boys are gross goes link and and just for the recorders actually the bright youth association has lloyds a girl's club in bright which was separate yet that is that that is a separate organization yesterday yeah I think you'll were the first and then they started like cruiser morning and good morning and members of the committee thank you for allowing us to be here today and share with you a little bit about the clubs and arkansas on what we do and we have twenty six state wide organizations all across the state and those organizations serve collectively over fifty two thousand. State wide and we have seventy two sites at the beginning of twenty twenty three but at the end of the year we will have eighty six operating sites in arkansas that serve kids every day after school and during the summer and. As chris mentioned our primary focus is to help support kids after school and during the summer when they have no other place to be are clubs provide not only programming that helps them enrich their academic and achievement for live and fulfill a healthy lifestyle but we're focused on developing and modeling citizens and it will be responsible and engaged and involved in their communities and sell our clubs also provide meals after school and in the summer program through partnerships with federal grant fines and be happy to answer any other questions you have about are the work that we do okay just cheer want star off with a few just basic once you have perspective the amount of money that the boys and girls club has received say in the last two years I know we've given some money I think out of our performance you write off top have the amount of money that's been given to you so in twenty twenty two we received a six million dollars in artifiding and that was divided I max the clubs collectively across the state and then we also receive tana funding we've received that on an annual basis throughout the past couple of years that bending is a grant programs that there are requirements to add here to there are some claims that opt out of that funding because it the requirements may interfere with the programs that they already run that's tard to maybe a private grant or other federal funds that they receive but. We received about just over a million dollars in ten offending last year and then again this year I am and then most recently we were approved for some gear funding that is also a part of the copied relief package and that was for academic support for our programs and also a additional programming that is in the scope of our services okay and then how much of that money stays in the state with the various clubs at one hundred percent of the grant binding that we receive stays in this day it's all tired to requirements that the clubs meet and then they expand that out through reimbursement and procedures okay i'm a gold coach hair and members again just cash you swapped in our system is down the only marks that are going to be hot are the ones that the table in the ones up here at the chair if you have a question do you best to get codes attention way shoot a flare come over tap amount should whether case maybe to get his attention and he will recognize you in the order i'll repeat your question if it's going to be a long question is come to college mike and you can ask its yourself so that people are snowing like in here and what go to coach here general barry linguist german so how's it determined what what amount of money that goes to the local chapters are in of the boys and girls clubs can you can you explain how you determine that number yeah so there is a formula that was adopted by our local clubs and with tantiff specifically that is at a it is separate because it is. Made available to the clubs based on their number of use they start that are tane of eligible self a clib where the sake of an example said that they were going to sort of sixty five tan if eligible used through that program then they were to receive based on the formulas written into the grant they would receive that dollar amount outside of that if we were to receive an a grant today for a million dollars and we have a formula that are clubs about it on a adopted and it is based on their organization or do that they pay and that formula is compromised at their annual budget so their budget kind of reflects the number of youth that they serve in their capacity and then it is a formula that we adopted that kind of is based off at that big year so it's a percentage based and then it's teared based on how many kids they serve in their overall budget so cares act funding united way all of this handled about it same formula and now you noted way as them then that's local to the clubs the only thing that comes is final through the arkansas alliance that is a part of that formula is any state grant dollars that we receive that doesn't have a specific formula that was written into the grant to a bad bar okay great thank you mister the. The up salaries that are associated with the boys and grocer club alliance of our consultant would be your level I get chris and the others what is the source of the funding that takes care of you all salaries in the operation of the of the state alliance though i'm the soul employee at their state alliance and there is a part a portion of the great fence that we receive that is applied to salaries and based on you know operating the time that spent are allocated to those grants and but also the members pay in membership dues to the alliance to be a part and be able to receive that funding i'm in participate in a lines activities and then that bending is also you know last. To support the structure and at the alliance okay it is fine or sanding based on survey that there's about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars a year that's paid collectively by all the clubs that goes up to the national organization is that is that a correct hundred and twenty thousand and twenty twenty two and that's from all that that is paid by all to twenty six clubs collectively correct wouldn't which the determining factors to how much each club pays to the national organization there is a tiered formula much like the one that I described for the alliance that is based on their capacity as an organization their overall budget in the. And then that is tiered. Okay similar to the way which the money is dealt out to the clubs based on the other two system so that that money comes out of the clubs because I know they all do fundraisers I know that they get this money that we send down through arpa the source of where they get the money out of their individual club to send up to the national organization is arrived at how it would have to be unrestricted funding that they've received through either private donations or otherwise. Okay so so then it's going to be the private money that they use to pay to the national organization not any the money that's derided from say are the money or or tanner free that are the right yes there okay and do you know a fee of the clubs have problems pain those do have they ever express you financial distress that they're not able to pay their portion of the dude i'm not i'm not familiar with any club that has i'm sure that at times any non profit organization is an innov stretched for a finding and especially pescobid but there is not to my knowledge and organization that has specifically. Said that they can't pay their dose however if that were ever a am concerned there are methods and place to address that with the national organization they would work with the local club I know that there was the club that is no longer and a tartered member but they had several years of an unpaid membership days and they worked with them to rather half so there are instances that that does come into play and but that may not be just their are variety of factors as to why that could be the case okay and as far as that money when it set up to the national organization do you know what that money is used for and what is it that you receive in the way of benefits from the national organization. For the dues that you pay to be affiliated with the boys and girls club sell and the alliance and just want to make it clear the alliance is a separate in individual c four that is not a part of the national organization but we are deliated with the national organization I am boys and girls clubs collectively in the state paid in one hundred and twenty thousand dollars and twenty twenty two two national to be an affiliated tarter member boys and gross club and to carry that brand name and then collectively in twenty twenty two they receive six hundred and twelve thousand dollars in past three funding that funding was about fifty fifty between private funding that was granted two boys and girls clubs of america and then passed through to and local clubs and that also includes federal past three dollars though there are numerous grants that the national organization would apply for or partner with congressional. Would partner with the federal government to administer and that may look like the office of due then i'll just is in delinquency prevention many of our clubs receive a mentoring grant through them and all of the great all of the money that is passed through from national that excludes any money that's come through from the state so that six hundred and twelve so there's about a five. Uhm five times the return on the investment that they're paying international the money that we pay to them provides not only access to those past thirty dollars but an. You know we have a. Overall. Financial health child safety resources programming curriculum and that we have an amazing marketing team that would help provide and plug and play templates for smaller organizations that maybe don't have multiple full time employees and they provide access to things that they could utilize and we have employees that serve as an directors of organizational development and they go in to local club organizations and help support them in whatever methods they may need it may be strengthening their quality improvement of their programming in their clubs it may be helping with training and local club employees so there's a numerous ways that that funding is. Spent I am at the national low ball but it def definitely does all come back and serve the local clubs. Okay am I go to representative in it who has a question. Sure go here. Yes I am the every club in arkansas is a part of the alliance though at the center there is a part of the central arkansas was in gross up and yesterday in there representative hang out just one second let me repeat the question much for people watching online so the question was asked here's a particular club that you represent you wanted to know if they are a member of the alliances at the correct question in the answer as yes okay go ahead and let me repeat what you ask. The question is the will the state large provide resource such as technical equipment buzz or other services assistance to the individual club it is her what at what he offered to them to help the alliance with night and what we do is primarily serve clubs in it with grant vending and boys and girls clubs of america and they wouldn't necessarily be able to provide a bus for any individual club however they do. Partner with national organizations last year I know that we partnered with bridge down nationally there were fifty clubs in the nation that received a band as a so they definitely have partnerships that you can apply for funding to receive certain items that you may be and needed but then they still operate you know at the local level and and partner locally to receive funding as well that is outside of the national organization to support their needs. Yes ma'am. Thank you would you give the name of the club against we give. Threshold all right so the comment was she's appreciated representative and its appreciated thresholds assistance that they refront the city of rock and and others to help get it up to standards that are good okay all right senator solvent. Yeah. The. Yes sir yes the nationalization does distribute money on some occasions was a question yes sir. Are the distributions based on objective criteria typically yes if it organization nurses receiving any type of grant funding they would have to have some sort of services to. Achieve. The. No sir said the question was would it would that criteria require any consideration of objectives for d I criterias I read center solid. Okay and it or from it of action in the answer to the question was to my knowledge now. Question is just. The question is does boys club national. What was where to use center solvent. Do they have affirmative action standards. They're there are no initiatives that are required from the national organization outside of safety and financial oversat requirements regarded required of local clubs. The. So now no. The. Senator dish main. Yeah. That is all the national website of the boy's girls clad alliance in. Yeah. We have. Yeah. Yeah so. I think that what you're holding our business is an adder some type of graphic our national organization what he is referencing to some members have copies of it is directly off the website of the boys and girls club and it is about to be emailed to all the members so what your email should be coming out in the second that you would be getting a copulate okay go ahead send her some senator just okay there are programs and initiatives that they national organization has that you are referring to none of the programs or initiatives that are advertised on the national organizations website are required by the national organization for a local clubs to implement. We have to as the local club and I worked at a local cut for nine years as a local club director or local club institution there are a set of membership requirements that you have to had here too and that is the only thing required by voice and girls clubs of america there's. Requirements pertain to things like all clubs have to follow state and federal loss every each member organization must have at least one staff or volunteer present at all times that is c PR certified and you must display your safety collateral you must you must have a general liability and insurance policy so now the the things that you're seeing are and they're the things that senator hammers reference we do have boys and gross have there are very diverse organization that operate collectively across the nation in the beauty of our federated model is that claps look like the communities that they serve. And they have programming in place that looks like the communities that they serve and addresses their local communities needs though if a community and another state wanted access to programming that pertains to those that advertise them it it's there but to my knowledge there's not a club and arkansas that utilizes that programming and and we did sorry by all of our clubs recently to just confirm that and really in the space of der you know as it has a youth serving organization we're not turning any child away at the doors it doesn't matter where they come from what they look like what they're a part of we're there to serve kids and where they are to make sure that they are getting the help and support that they need after school to become good citizens many of the kids that we serve are. Attending on a scholarship and they get free lunches at school in the last mill that they used at the club is the is the last mill that they'll eat all night before they go to school the next day and that is our primary primary focus in clubs in arkansas and there are certainly is access for the diverse clubs across the nation tip for programming if they choose to use it but that's a local decision. Yeah. Hmm. The. And then in your point there there's nothing you attack the sunday or whatever maybe we're not getting state money. The. Yeah. This is the best I can tell you. For our local clothes yes so appreciate your comments. I mean I think that's ridiculous but II wish. The. Yeah. The. Yeah okay all right. Representative shepherd. Yeah. The. So the question is the number of kids that are being provided services through that funding correct and the service is provided. Thirteen opening a further tane offending that we received its a grant program in that we operate four different programming with kids that qualify for tanner and that programming includes homework in richmond so there's a program called power hour that they participate in after school and there's a program for a. At rest behind your prevention so you know teaching kids to avoid substance abused healthy lifestyle programming and then also community service so kids can you know teaching them the importance of being involved in the community and giving back to their community those are the four pillars that we operate under tanner and then we received one point two million dollars there's go around it it scholarships just about twenty six hundred kids in arkansas so each clever for child attends their reimbursed eight dollars per day for their attendance the for the year that is capped out on fifty two days that the ideas one day a week that that child is tan of scholarship so eight dollars is the amount that's reimbursed if a child attends the club they get an eight dollars reimbursement from tanner to participate in that program and receive those services. Had twenty it's just over twenty six hundred kids yesterday. You're welcome. Let me go through a list of the questions that is going to focus along line of the senate dismay is not the roommate more solemnity let me just take download a question to get to the point showing it on to the rest of the agenda today. The fans that are set up to the national organization you mention while go representative richie that individual clubs are autonomous they can do what they want to do individually they would also choose as to whether not they'd want to stay affiliated with the boys and girls club of of america or they can break in do whatever else they choose to do is that correct. That is correct that is up to the local board to decide whether or not. They want to be a fill there with more in gross covers america now okay and when it comes to the question of being autonomous and yet if you're going to remain autonomous from an organization that would also mean that you wouldn't have to operate under the mandates that are being passed down by them as I understand it was the mandate is that you're going to be required in order to stay affiliated with boys and girls carving correctly if i'm wrong on this is that youth no longer ages 16-18 eighteen will be able to be employed in the comparison which they're previously been employed for example if you had a large gm you got up sixteen year old and there you're now going to have to have somebody over the age of eighteen accompanied that sixteen year old is that a correct interpretation scenario would you straighten that out please. Yeah I mean the so you can still hire under age employee sixteen seventeen you can still have those in police but they do have to have some supervision from someone who is eighteen and above I mean so yes if you add as I understand it is were implementing our club if you had a staff person who was sixteen in the gym you would definitely want to have someone who has eighteen years old or above also in the gym which you know in the context of union when you have running in a ratio of one to twenty as far as you want it one staff person per twenty the kids I mean if you have a large gm you're going to have several staff people in there so it just mean you have to make sure that where you allocate your staff that you're purposeful about it and you think through it and make sure that you get your staff situated where you can have you know an adult in. In the each area where they can be supervising what's what's going on automats for the and that's part of the safety requirements the you know for the clubs. Is there a deviation from what it historically has men. It's for app as far as I know yes it. So safety is is priority number one at the boys and girls clubs of of arkansas in america and we recently spent three years there was a task force that that was made up of local clubs and in in both board members and ceos to revisit all of our membership requires for the first time in an overhalf century but safety is is the the primary focus and and so there were a lot of discussion in and around the age of the of the the workers the sixteen and and eighteenth between sixteen and eighteen will continue to be a large internal part of the clubs they are just adding another layer and I honestly don't know that the specifics in terms of of the ratio but they will continue to be a part of that and whether that's a a volunteer coach in that's how some clubs I know where are handling it they've got a a coach that's in the geom that's gone through the background checks and and he's you know thirty four years older forty eight years old or old man like me he's in there with the sixteen year old staff member and that will that work required you won't have to pay it but but safety being the number one uh reason why they have tweaked that requirement and senator all just out that there's not a specific ratio stated in the membership requirement for the staff to monitor staff requirement really that requirement and looks like in our club served children all the way up to age eighteen so they want local clubs to also have a policy in place that dippernates a minor staff member from a club member and have policies for that minor staff member because they are liable for certain instances where they may be involved in a critical incident so they want them to undergo an additional set of training so they really understand the responsibility that they have to care for the children that they are. Serving. And the first club chooses not to go with that policy will they lose their affiliation. If if they choose not to uh then I don't know that there's any hard and fast rule that says you automatically lose that if you know if it any more than not paying does or or other violations of those policies I don't think that there's there's been there was there was discussion much discussion and debate on this in and and those that offer sports programs because there's a variety I mean we have clubs in salation army units we have clubs at military basis we have clubs on native american reservations and so there was a a lot of discussion in and around this and so I don't know that there's a hard fast answer that I can give you today that that you would just immediately or automatically lose that affiliation and I do know that we've been a part of several conversations the past few minutes with the clause as the implement the update of membership requirements and it's something that much like legislation that is passed from the state you have to go back and set alls to and I know that they are working with the clubs and those directors of organizational development that I mention that as a national liaison are helping the clients so it's not meant to be in argature type setup thing it's supposed to help. Structure that organization to be safe demanded and then they're able to get assistance on how they should best implement that I am said that their organizations are safe for kids okay and then the large question i've gotten if no other members will finish it out appreciate shall be in here data answer these questions when I go up to their national website and I look at the national organization I can't say that this is the case on any website with any clubs here in arkansas I notice that there is a large presence in fact they've got a whole division that focuses on the I and also they have a large presence that focuses on lbgtq specifically a whole promotion of month and those are having to be funded by some sort of financial resources in order to be able to have those do you know what the funding sources that supporting that at the national level and is this the agenda of the clubs in the state of arkansas and do not now the source of the funding for those initiatives I know that they're one of many initiatives that are mentioned on that list if you go to the national website and navigate to that I don't know the source of the feding but I know that that's night and apology or a practice that many climate arkansas it's mainly as I mentioned before when kids come to the door we're not turning them away and are those mandated down to the level of the state organizations or if the state a club within the state says we don't want to display that we don't we don't align with the eye and you mentioned while ago about by leading state laws you know a couple state laws like an affirmative action the pressure coming down from the national organization on to our state clubs and you've been the sole employee of the large bargain saw the position that the alliance takes on this would be what. Wait we follow our state as he and none of our clubs are mandated you know their locally governed and other local word in if there is a policy or initiative that they choose to adopt or not a dog that's a local decision they'll only thing as I mention their required to implement are the membership requirements that are sinnered around safety and financial responsibility and then the last question is this do you know are there any equal amount of resources at the national level. Or at the state level that if there is going to be a focus on one particular portion of the population that served by the clubs do you know that there's a dollar equal application to all other populations in the club such as are what represented in the dei offers of the national organization in any of the objectives that the di office pushes out to the clubs in the way of recommendations mandates or anything else. This. If i'm understanding your question correctly and equal resource commitments to all populations within the clubs it would seem that they've invested very heavily in a d I got complete die office day they out of that day office they seem to be pushing down certain recommendations and your test more today is they're not mandates but they certainly are making a strong purchase do they give equal resources to other populations that are served by the club not just those that evidently are attached to die of course the mean if you were to go on to we have a a website that is developed specifically for local clubs and employees to be able to access them if there were any number of different and issues that fit in our scope of services you would be able to access if you had children that weren't reading on great level there's academic programming that you could go to an access for those kids if you have a child that is experiencing and mental health. Issues you know we have a focus that are clubs are going to have access to resources or betrained in such a way to respond to those mental health gracies when they're you know coming out of a person pandemic life and what that looks like in the many battles that adolescent use face if you have been up there tons of different programming and resources available and I mean I jim you may be able to comment on that as well but chris to I mean there's a program for every kid in their deplace for every kid in the clark okay but I think the key is that they are not mandates and this is the thing that I want everyone in this is a member here to understand if if there was a movement say in some other state two to change the membership requirements to mandate these initiatives or to take a you know i'm a position contrary to what we believe here in arkansas they are going to have to work their way through every local club and that's part of what I do is as a national council committee ago to our console clubs when we have our meetings in our statewide meetings I got okay home when I go to kansas I have members from texas in florida and they all get worked up and then they're voted on but the thing that I think is still missing is this national organization national boys and girls club is there for support they are governed by border governors that we as local clubs nominate and vote and approve their board and then they support in in in the various ways in any mandate that would be contrary to the way I believe is a conservative christian would have to come through us as a local board member before it would ever be taken to the tart even be boated on their issues that we've talked about unrelated to drabbet but issues that we've talked about that never make it to the top to. To even have a vote so the system is in place with the federated model uh insurers that we all have a vote and that it gets fleshed out locally. Before it actually ever would would make its way back to us in the form of a mandate. Anything else I want to say. Question is are we girls that want to go into the restroom are they having to deal with the issue of boys should identify as girls coming in to the russians at the question represent bentley okay it's definitely a local club decision but I can speak for the clubs in my area and the clubs that I must familiar with in terms of what they're data date operations look like in their client in many of our clubs not only for a safety reasons but for children being children in the things that can go on in the bathrooms that just painting nails are staffing toilets to let paper the only allow one child in at a time in the bathroom so. And I can speak for our club locally there we do not but we take a one step further which is again is is a one of the the club membership requirement tap rules that she's talking about we have separate bathrooms for adults we don't even let the adults go in the children's bathroom we have separate bathrooms for the adults as well that that is their policy that store maxed alter clubs at the membership requirement that thursday separate a door bathroom. Okay so badly good okay so any other comments no I just I guess i'll add an in relation to that as well that if if a child comes into the class you know as it as club staff and we're going to. Call that child with what their parent registered has and they're going to be identified in the club is as what their parents found the map to be on the massive local club decision that's not something that's mandated for national but I know and there were you know they repaid caused attention to the laws that were passed in the legislative session in their space of scores and how that looks in the club and sell it for child crimes and their registered as suz at the clark that's what they're going to be called by the club staff and they were going to the bathroom that that identified search and into that point it is now. The boys and girls club of mayor car encouraging and actually prefer their personal pronounce in all email and correspondences be used as a so correct among am technically a national employee in it with an option give it to me it's not required and it's not a mass signature okay that's good art general warriors like ten comment I know the centers trying to wrap this up I just want to think the boys and crawl girls clubs for the tremendous contributions you make the the art communities especially in my districts are very rural environment and it's the only option that a lot of these young boys and girls have is to be able to go to those facilities and and and you don't do a kids do and II really appreciate everything that i'll do for specially in my district thank you like mister. And appreciate what you do but also appreciate the fact that each individual club has the autonomy to make decisions on their own and if there's pressure that's coming down or even a trend that seems to be increasing come down from the national level and they disagree with it what I heard from you today is they have the ability to separate doesn't mean that they would stop offering services it would just be a matter of disassociation with the national organization because of disagreement but do one of communicate apostrophe message appreciate which new christmas thank you for being here today and making yourself to answer questions especially okay one last comment I would say to that very point in my role is the national air council representative if you and your district here of these mandates or these these are directives that they feel like they're being given that my role to take that up to the national area council levels so please let me know as a fellow legislature not that mad volunteer role his of boys and girls club volunteer I can take a look to care that as well and an fma I just want to add as well the the best way to continue to insure that your clubs are meeting the needs of your communities are to get involved in that may be through a volunteer and for it or serving on a local board but the more engaged and involved you are you know you have a voice to help make sure that you're club continues to serve and meet the needs and your communities thank you for their governors made a very strong statement about walking to one thing is to boys and girls club have long standing tradition of being built on traditional values we'd hate to see that launched any wokism they would be a final comment I would make men thank you for being here today moving on to item d which is the follow up discussion of white swatter permission issued. See. Yeah this severe this can be a a brief one members will try to get sought to here live forty five absolutely no later than noon there's gonna be a follow up discussion senator johnson i'm gonna ask you if you would go to the table because this is your issue and if you would get the individuals to the table as a follow up and then we're going to get on to represent as an issue that representative lunch from ash to be added which is e. And go hidden by who you want to have come to the table center johnson and will get named titles for the r. Thank you mister chairman mark jans and state said district seventeen. Which includes the northwest corner of pilaski county. Also appreciate that representative brooks is here who is my representative and also covers this area a join with people I will allow them to introduce themselves I just have a brief statement and we will minimise the terms that's allowed this was covered in the last year though. Yeah. My name is all drink water and live at white mountain. I'm christians I live in little illegal. Okay and limit your speakers comment as you mention center johnson we did hear this before but elsewhere instead of missed brink war you weren't able to be here last time and that is part the reason why we're having it back on the agendas for you to be able to share your comments you were actually think and some of the things you are reference want to give the opportunity to come before the committee and and share briefly some insight that may add to the subject of saint johnson you were say something that I simply want to introduce that to mister drank water is a volunteer he is part of our coalition of people that are concerned about the problems created by these permits had been issued but the equ in this area both passed and pending. Uh. He is former actually an employee of adq or arch predecessor agency and very cognizant of these things he makes security is not an engineer well read on these issues and the claim water act and related things related to the law i'm wondering him to specifically respond to some of the comments from the agency related to a the issues that were brought forth at the last hearing on october twenty fourth and is it as you mentioned he had to be an automotive and so I could not at but I would ask him to to respond to those things specifically related to both groundwater problems that may not be specifically regularly better contributory to the overall problem plus a issues related to chlorine so I want it if if it he would mister chairman if you would recognize mr water now to to make those comments at the strength water yes by groundwater senator johnson is really talking about the store more to run off in the flooding in that kind of thing I know that there were there were some comments made in follow up regarding the the diversion date itself and it being permitted by eighty and that not being part of their part of their purpose but in fact it was part of a larger construction storm water permit that was issued it was part and parcel so there's no getting around that it was part of the storm water management program for a much larger water view of states development eleven hundred acres so division developed so it's a very large store mortar project in the in itself is a very large the concrete ditch is a very larger contributor of storm water now it's moved from the mall mill water shared into the mill by water she had the streams that that it was moved down to and is all inside the storm water. Area that permitted storm water area so it's not inside and outside of the store permitted areas all inside the store more to permitted area the water that was moved from the more mailbase and into the middle base and was dumped into a federal streams in the different points that comes across the original point you can go and look at the femeral stream that it was dumped into and that there's a huge erosion that it has taken place because of their most dreams are not well suited for that kind of additional water to be added to them without controls and without engineering preparation for that it's there's well known bank by everyone that does anything with storm water the diversion did you added as much as far to tin times the amount of storm order flow into those streams at the point of discharge of the coverts bringing the water into those stream so it way overpowered those streams and the one that's been there like I said the longest now shows what's taken place by that misapplication you have a huge you know I call it the year though the water view of grandkan but you have a huge canyon that has been eroded out with pramps thousands of terms of what i've saw it will being washed down the creek from that point new or should have known that those dreams that it was a language accumulated storm ordered to be dumped into work if there were all and consequently were an ill suited for that kind of an application eighty q did not require in your years later still has not required the applicant to construct controls network promised by the applicant in the water she had in the water view storm what a permit documents initially and those that have filed since then additional permits have been issued several times since the initial permit construction of this type of store more to management system for planned residential development covering hundreds of baker's faults. Squarely in the middle of eighty is regulatory authority it is not outside their authority at all is the part of the storm order management in its permitted construction of this type of store more than management system which increases the threat of flooding residential commercial and agricultural property as well as roads fall squarely in the middle of the department's regulatory authority adq is supposed to operate under the principle of do no harm when considering a permit if a permit is the issue that controls a nominal amount of pollution but creates a massive disaster for everyone else in the community eighty should not be issuing that permit under the new no harm principle it should modify what it's requiring in the way of controls to prevent problems from happening and then it should show up and make sure that those controls have been put into place and they're working properly so that no harm does occur that's the problem in this the reason we're here talking about this today. Controls for this type of base in the base and transfer. A storm water falls under the large scale storm water permit required that storm water discharges be no be at a no greater rate than the storm order discharge prior to the development in going around the state i'm clear with other places where in and in other states where that's just a part and parcel of everything is done you don't wow the storm water to come in from a development that goes out at a fast rate than what you had pre development you have controls on the prevent that rate from increasing and creating problems downstream. Yeah. Yeah. The. Controls for a large scale project like this and we're talking about an eleven hundred acre project we're not talking about a small little subdivision it goes in peace by piece by peace by peace but it would let me know and buy the applicant from the get go this is eleven hundred acres and we have a lot of plans for it so controls were proposed never added some control should be added now and we've made the department known a knowledgeable about the lack of those controls having been developed and presented are put into place by the applicant we don't know that there's anything that has taken place and has months ago that the debt was done. Controls for a large scale project like this should be maintained in perpetuity because you don't just come in and build everything and then walk off and leave it in it is going to just be fine after that as recommended by adq in arkansas general storm water permit AR fifteen thousand part two section a four l water view should be required to secure an individual permit for store mortar post construction b m ps that discharge from a point source similar languages also found an epa storm water regulation. But that individual permit for that purpose has not been approached by either the applicant or eighty equivalent this point so they're at this where we can stand at this point is we have a massive amount of storm water being transferred from one base into another with zero controls or most of that discharge coming from one base into the other the controls were proposed by the applicant never delivered an adq has not forced the applicant to comply and this is this is years since two thousand and six and the a massive change took place over the past two years on the west into the development they had should have been controlled in west night in so that's there's really where where I got involved with this whole operation. Shout at the johnson thank you mister I think that uh first I want to thank you for correcting me on storm water versus groundwater I know the difference but again i'm not an injuries either and I did miss speak on there we are not talking about grandmother we're talking about storm water run off and the fact that it creates floating at a without an in visited with the gentleman who has property he is not part of the coalition that these people are representative but I had a totally separate problem related to this groundwater is she anne is involved in separate litigation with a developer he showed me here it floods on I would say the north side of his property and then he immediately pointed to the south side of his property where the the plan is to to have the treatment sewage treatment player and the our column feel like there's probably a better word for requirement correct me where the affluent would be going and it's just all right in there together one of the things that uh came to my attention is the diversion ditch that mister water referred to and we talked about it the last hearing this was done as a settlement with central arkansas water to basically have this storm water go into the area north of this development rather than to the south which would put it in the like moment water now that sounds okay that back work but the adam has been left out his part of the agreement wires a holding pin that would hold this water to keep it from at the end of this date she would keep it from from going in and creating out of problems that was never constructed in that is my understanding some of the litigation that's involved is that a they didn't do it and be even if they did it it may minor may not have met the engineering. Criteria to actually contain the water and protect the area from flooding if I could experiment understandably justical difficulty we're dealing with but I provided staff with actually staff also got it a cover letter for the comment sent to us by the osage nation did you get that okay as to above the email to call me your email idea and my course my computers over there but but basically if if if I might have be happy to retrieve my computer and read it since now I have ability to read that I can it's it's about two three paragraphs mister chairman but it is simply the cover to the document that you already received from there but i'm not so sure that it didn't also go to you okay i'll one of your own emails but I can grab that in let's do this for the sake of term how about about you. A ship affect it was the cover email too the document that center bright is holding let's do this concern I know we've got folks driver northwest arkansas for the other item on the agenda let's do this mr inquiry you said pretty much everything you need to say. I had a couple of other points that I wanted to make but eh it's you know i'll i'll take the time where i'll give it up but the issues about using chlorine in a infermoral stream and no flow the stream are very critical the the water view the state's waste water permit was issued originally in two thousand and five and it was issues and come up get you i'll grab my computer while he is responding he pushed it up to the members ok just compliments it was issued with chlorine as a disinfected but it was not issued with any chlorine parameter for discharge so the the permit was allowed to discharge as much glorian as it wanted to into the stream and there was no visibility for it because there was no testing or anything it was just allowed to be done in in the next permit the same thing happened in the third permit you should in two thousand and seventeen a an acknowledgment of chlorine was put into the permit in that they had to test in report but they had no parameter but this is this is not coring is not just been discovered to be toxic we've known coring was toxic in the streams for decades in so it should have been something that was considered in a declaration system paired with that coronation system to prevent the the toxic material from going into that stream we get around to twenty thousand two two thousand seventeen in the permittee issue permitted issue then we did have testing and reporting that we had no parameter the parameter that we've that we understand coming down from epa in a no flow stream it's point zero one one middle rams per leader and that's the parameter that should have been installed in it system to start with what let's do this must drink water and thank you I think you've made a point excellent. Would listen to this st johnson is going to email that letter to kobe and california in the room. I was born I can't see behind the post you are you won't come to the table cause what I want to do is briefly give you a chance to respond and then i've got a a challenge for you and senator johnson you got the I do had let me just read it told me about three paragraphs okay and show that you all can you could stay at the table to slight to the side for mr morning can get to the table is this is addressed to to you and I and other people on the oside sat dear senators the also agentation is respectfully requesting the joint performance reviewed legislative committee evaluate concerns for permanent and adverse effects. To an osage care cemetery downstream from paradise valley subdivision in roll on architecture the eq has been repeated has been repeatedly notified that human burials are being indirectly affected from the undertaking but no response or legally required in hpa in nepa consultation has been afforded to the osage nation. These burials are protected by arkansas state and federal laws but no permeating agency has taken action to avoid adverse effects to human variables nor acknowledge the situation attached please see the latest comment from the osage nation and ticipated for submission to pilaski county planning board before the meeting on tuesday november twenty eighth twenty twenty three thank you for consulting the osage station on this matter respectfully luke morris archaeologist may I was outsage nation historic preservation office per hospital oklahoma and that was the thing can we will get it and it can be distributed to the committee okay thank you let's do this if you would make room there for us born and young lady accompanying him and let me insurance architect keep place restrict working place and call if you would would you and you guessed that please name entitled for records. Good morning mischair my name is kale bosburg i'm the energy and environment chief administrator in the environment and the director of good morning i'm stacy while so on the associate director of the office of water quality at dq covered let me give you a call excuse me for them to give a chance to respond if you would please to commence this right up in last time could you just briefly give a response if you have one please thank you miss share. Several items it would raise this morning I believe we're covered pretty comprehensively in our previous discussion I will point out on the total residual so. Let me start by saying when we refers primarily a lot of our conversation last time talked about the paradise valley subdivision which is a new subdivision and a new waste of our system to be constructed. The comments today seemed to primarily relate to what view estates which is an existing subdivision which I think has between fifty and seventy homes currently there currently operating system. And we have a pending permit that will be ready for issue it soon we're working through our response to comments I believe some of the remarks for mr drinkwater related to. It sounded to me and I don't have it the record fully in front of me right now but comments there were issued on that draft permitting decision that were made it is working through for a final decision he mentioned that we not responded on some issues I think that'll happen with that permit is issued. And regarding the total residual according issue in the draft permit as proposed which if issued final will require them to work on reductions which likely will result in the declaring that he's asking for that is going in the direction the mister drinkwater raised on the chlorine issue regarding the storm water question that came up earlier I feel like this was another item that we had talked about quite a bit we do not agree with the. Description in the way they are describing some of the strong water runoff from that site but we can continue to review and consider this as I said I think a number of these were items ever brought it before the issues construction permit I will ask our associated director she has any thoughts on that storm or construction permit. So that constructs storm water construction permit had not been we had not received any recent complaints on that so that had not been at the top of our list but due to the comments that have been made here today and previously we are looking into that permit and compliance with that comment. The. Representative. The. If I may start with the second question first. The draft permit does have uh. Is it certain numbers are a more in a believe and I need to pull it up in in states you will port up right now that the proposed draft permit which when it is effective will establish a limit for chlorine that they have to have. I was I mentioned there are previous discussion around this this progression that we are going through in how systems are asked to address in ultimately if they need to add additional equipment for a removal of chlorine is something that we're working on with permits across the state. What's the number the permit does have a limit in it for chlorine and it will be zero point zero one one miller crimes per leader. And that again will be the permit when we are able to complete our review we had an extensive record of comments were submitted it has not gone final to become effective but that is what we have proposed to do and is out there for review right now and should be nearing the the completion of that administrator review process to your prior question apologize if it sounded like I was questioning the images and other things we have seen. In context of what we permit with the discharge of the waste word treatment plant and some of what the allegations have been is that it's the waste water discharge which is causing some of the flooding and other things like that that is worth my was tempting to say we don't agree with there's also some questions about what our permitting should look like based on how storm water conveyances are done mr drinkwater I believe was saying that we should permit this in the same way that we do a city or other music the threshold for that as a ten thousand we do have permitting on large storm server systems but there is a fibrelist of ten thousand and above it would not be for this type of development that we would use that was where I was attempted to address a number of the concerns had been raised and we understand in and we've seen the pictures and we have had these conversations and mister drinkwater with missings with others they're part of this community a number of the issues they raise we believe are beyond the perview of what we regulate ours is for a construction storm water while construction activity is going on with dirt being turned with that activity going on the it tends to lead towards settlement and. Send rotation tribute in the water. I understand that that permit is out there and if there's some activity going on that may be contributing to those things but they flow and the volume of storm waters beyond the perview of what we're looking at and in again representatively I apologize if if as seem to be trying to contradict the evidence has been presented we we recognize and we appreciate what they are sharing but we believe that many of those issues are beyond us in our understanding is that there may be separate civil litigation going on around this issue that does not involve us okay. I assume johnson anything else for me thank you mister i'm on a rap my part of this and with other issues coming up a somewhat trouble when I see an agency that that. Puts on blinders and doesn't see the inner relation between two issues one of which they definitely have just diction over in one which they may are peripherally have just diction over and this carries over to project send situations even beyond this one it's it's almost the ugh. Or I call the sergeant shorts defence is that you have they just not see I don't want I know nothing I think well these things including the failure for the construction of a holding pin which causes the the storm water to effect proliferation of the high levels of chlorine which is in this actual one case might be a positive thing because it would allow the glory because it when this is discharged at a high level in the federal streamers mister drinkwater is talking about it means he basically streamed drop part of the year you don't highly treated chlorine in it you've got a high level of chlorine which you can get it big you can get high enough it can be talks ago so this is not like opening it in the arkansas river where it will dalute very quickly and part hardly we noticed these are areas that are drop part of the year and with the exacerbation cars back the lack of the holding point that we discussed earlier I realize that's outside this agencies direct per view but uh do not harm principle mr drankwater talked about it is very relative here I simply want to say that the residents the area call me the representative merely appreciate you bringing forth the pictures from the last hearing but in the words that great philosopher yogi bear you could observe a lot by just looking at anger you might institutes in the area have been looking and they've been taking pictures and as I mentioned that one he's had this water coming round up to his building where his business is operator and he has equipment stored outside that the areas flooded in these create problems well beyond there so someone has to if they can't directly relate regulate it might be perhaps we need to reconsider the law that allows them to operate sort of in a with blinders own and and perpetuate. A peripheral problems related to the actual direct the area of their expertise and again I thank you mister chairman i'll chairs for allowing me to bring the issue back before the committee so what I would do that it was in mischargeborne were you aware that there was a letter that was sent down by the which which indonation the. Else has nation were you aware of that letter I came warehoud about that I walked in the day and I checked the agenda so an additional document was added but had received no prior notice and have no other knowledge about the purposer intended that letter creating in fairness with chairman I did not see this letter in my email until this morning probably about an hour in twenty minutes before the hearing so I can curve straws borns at receipt okay and in one of the question miss born you've been on the evening on the job what a year. To be about now might still not honestly be well anyway feels the belong I perceived that some of this may be some of what you've been here and and yet it is now years to own and to take corrective action or work with the senator and the residents moving forward and I think in light of the fact I want to bring out the deal sage letter just developed like real time on most of what I would like to ask is one of things I hope a culture would agree as we like to give when one residents and citizens have issues and representatives and senators want to bring it out in a way in which we can have this open their discussion to see if we can find resolved I would hope that would be one of things as cheaply as committee would you all strive to do so we've done that on this issue you now have a letter from the osage indian nation which is program to have some weight and some bearing on future decisions subject to the co chair weighing in on this because we have talked about is if if you would get center johnson now you've heard mr drinkwaters concerns the others now we got the osage later in the picture would you get with center johnson seek you can figure out moving forward how to resolve these things and hopefully you won't be back for the comedian we can do that so junching quickly thank you mister one last comment and clarification really are the osage a cover I caught the cover email that I read that call we will be sending around to the committee members specifically addresses effect that they have been contact with the about this issue and we're not comfortable with a level of response and each individual member can. A value out there the way they want to but that was part of the point of me reading that the cover email just a moment ago again I think the committee okay very good. Well you can throw that in them out may offer something that I don't know if we cover last time mr mister we did here I should say we did here from the osage nation prior to the insurance of the paradox valley permit which is currently under appeal there's actually hearings on it happening this week is part of the administrative appeal process. We did reach out I have confirmed with our attorneys that we have reached out to their attorney general's office at least two maybe three times and there were email exchanges and phone calls made prior to the instruments of the parent as valley. Permit the cursory issue or cursory review that I made of this letter this morning it seems to relate to the water view states which is so paradous values the new subdivision one of your states is the existing one it seems to relate more to that and certainly mister chair weekend speaking mister johnson about this we have we have met with sinner johnson about this previously when mr drinkwater and others and we will do so again but I do want you to know and for in regards to that comment we we have made over choose to reach out and follow up to the osage nation on that they did not unpaired as valley water view states remains pending and we will we will follow up on that as well however I think that there are some free Commit to work through that with senator johnson and this team and the occasionation as appropriate but I didn't want that to be clear because I don't recall if we discuss that during our prior hearing and I want you know and II thank you for your comment earlier about. The inheritance of issues and certainly it's our departments where department's worker divisions work we will continue with that but I do want you to know mister chair and every member of the committee that that sort of collaboration and communication we want to commit to that and we we believe we've been doing that will continue to try to do that more to make sure we have those conversations in that those in your your guidance and wisdom is is received and we will do our best to follow up on that mister thank you for that very much alright. Her would they have been said we'll move on to the next time thank you for being here today we're going to eat in california and mistakes more if you'll just want to hold you your sheets there if we got rammer don't go for i'm on recognize representative lunch to come down and representative. Come to. Yeah and there are pictures that are being handed out or you should have pictures regarding this next issue that representative launched from requesting audience before the committee in order to bring to the attention also represent lunch you want you won't just bring your guests that you have that have traveled in and let's get a mold table on time. Believe that involved a mayor and. Represent representative. If you all would induce itself for soft start for a named towel for the record. Rabbin lines term state representative district eighteen. State representatives steven district nineteen good morning my name is angela russell i'm the tony tell me. Right represent lunch from a month defer to you first of set the town for meeting and brought a lot of stuff so you want to go hidden defer to you to get started thank you and I promise we won't go through all this paperwork. The. The. I want to cover quite a few things there's a lot going on in northwest arkansas a lot of wonderful growth and a lot of exciting activity unfortunately with growth there is also a side effect there's the side effective trash and in northwest arkansas we have a lot of it to go along with our grave we also have some history and the history I want to take you back to is the and i'm not going to go all the way back to the beginning but in titan arkansas we have a landfill who started over forty years ago and just a little corner nobody thought too much of it. Unfortunately now you fast forward forty years we need to be thinking a whole lot about it. And I want to start with an interesting thing that I found. And it has to do with a legislative audit that was performed in two thousand and two that has to do with our atonytown landfill specifically done about the landfill. And unfortunately the article found a couple of things that I think thinks that we need to address and it's interesting that this was in two thousand and two I conflict exists between the guidance documents and the regulations concerning the alternative liners between the boon st joe formation ad's guidance documents for the alternative liner demonstrates and it goes on to talk about the cars formation and for those of you that might not be familiar with that the cars formation I think there may be a powerpoint up there the cars formation is underneath all of wonderful northwest arkansas are caverns and creeks and streams in fact a lot of cities in northwest arguments are named after springs elm springs spring dell cave springs. All of those springs are right under the landfill. The cars formation. Well this report goes on to talk about the tinytown landfill is located in an area the state including about the boon st john formations. It also suggests and it makes very clear in this. Added that there never should have been a landfill in northeast arkansas. And yet every single time the permit was issued over and over and over it again we could go to the next line. It also states very specifically the geology at northwest representative to do that i'm sorry. I think that was part of technical saying we were talking about earlier. The. Just tell me which but you need to click one of the tabs at the bottom. This is part of the rivers. In strains formation in the car's underneath and the river is above. This. This audit also when I am very specifically say the geology in northwest arkansas unsuitable for landfills. Period. This was back when the tony town landfill was sixty six acres. A little bitty hole in the wall. Now it is six hundred and nine acres twenty two years later so for any day that's thinking well you move next door to the landfill. Now then it was. A count pastor. Now it's massive. Twenty two years later if we had put our time and money and energy into putting together a new landfill with a new technology back then there were no liners. Not even the claim liner now we have sophisticated liners. So anyway we spent the money on the art we similarly ignored the article. Don't know why we bothered if we're not going to do it but anyway. In this artic process that also talks about numerously check leaps or not in the landfill several upon inspections inspections occurred but they were inconsistent one inspector would go out have an inspection then another and go out do totally the opposite. There were fines one phone was five hundred and eighty five thousand. Some of the fine money was used out in the landfill to do environmental projects. Anyway the story goes on and it just gets worse. In fact in here one of the things that I think is most interesting. The. The. Is that the landfill was not recommended. Absolutely not recommended but then. It says a staff determined that planning strategy was called for and no new landfills but no new landfills doesn't apply to issuing permits to the current landfill. Other words we're gonna say we're not gonna have any new landfills at all that that doesn't mean we can expand the current landfill. So we just ignored all our history our science and we just expanded the one we have and called it a new expansion. We ignored the science that we had. And the story goes on and now I want to take you up to two thousand and eighteen. More problems with line of signers now broken liners now not working leech issues. I realize render a time constraints i'm going to move a little bit faster. Now. Currently we did a ditest which is great state of arkansas data ditest that's fantastic and go over the dive test. The. Yeah. You have pictures of the day test. Is that the one that turn. Redsheets shows the red in the whole okay members has one says ditest to the right shows a whole with red die in the middle. What a ditest years is the landfill and they participated in their snow problems they put in a certain chemical that stalled. And it's put in under the car system and floats out into the stream sure now if it showed up into the wildcat while kept creek is a filler is a feeder into the illinois river. And there are twelve different day tests that are throwing this year I don't know if they finish them all yet there do to be finished by december thirty first. The. One has already been done you have the pictures in front of you. If we've been sued for having chicken letter and call people in the illinois river. By oklahoma what do you think they're going to do when they finally chat. The. In the only river water system. These are things we need to be dealing with now we're not prepared to have a landfill in northwest arkansas. I'd also like to talk about the well system we need to have a well monitoring system where are those wells what's happening with we've had fires at the timetown landfill there have been fourteen different fires since two thousand and sixteen. Unfortunately the title fire department is not capable of processing and handling these the fire marshall has been wonderful the fire chief has put out a letter and in it he notes that there are so many different fires that they're not capable on to his own honesty he saying even if every single fire department response they cannot put out the fires at the landfill because it's grown even with the landfill participating and they've been wonderful to work with on this fire suppression issue they still fully cannot handle it think about it it's one it's a fire. It's a dump. There's plenty of fuel there. Yeah. Owner has become an issue as you can imagine but it's not just a smell of a landfill it's also air quality up above you on the screens you will see. A slide. This is in june two thousand and twenty one beautiful. The little really yellow dates if you can see them that's a beautiful gas it has its a potential bio few its views and everything from make up to paint dinner fuel editive solvents fans waters glad I excuse me whacks is barnishes at high levels it can cause headaches disney and bombing even nasia headex. The. This is the all the yellow dots are the vietnam where it pinged off as a gas in the area. Right in the middle. This is the landfill. The. And this was produced by the economist of folks. Blandfill folks that monitor their air quality. That's what the citizens are breathing. The. The. Represent of anger has met with the university of arkansas geology department would you mind pulling your michael little closure yes you know i'm gonna let represent a bunger he has met with university thank you miss chair on the tiffen november I had a meeting with the university bargain saw geology department of doctor philip hayes and doctor kevin beefes and I asked the introducing question if they were to try to permit this land fill now with this be accepted and it was strongly absolutely not which is what it their answer I expected and I went on to ask them could they put a proposal together for me of how they would monitor to the water I know there's monitoring well somewhere around this land not sure where they are not sure who samples them or what those samples are but it seemed to me the most appropriate thing was to ask or land grant college to get involved with this is the most impartial people I can find and they have come up with some ideas and estimates for me which I could share at a later time one of the things I believe trash is not just a tony town problem it's a regional problem for all of us. And I just an anadol story back in the late nineteen seventies a gasoline tanker turned over on what is now highway for twelve west their used to be a trouble farm and johnson arkansas will basically with an hours I mean literally with an hours all the tray reflection to me up the gasoline had got there that fast that is exactly what happens in a limestone cars formation the wimestone does a terrible job of filtering water it's not right clay it's not like limestone the other thing is there seems in this stone that functionally act like water pipes in the waterflows very fast. I may get made my point thank you. The last thing i'd like to talk about are the citizen complaints each of these represent citizens complaints in the year of the complaint for example in twenty twenty one there are forty nine citizen complaints and zero violations. The. Each of these represent a citizen that either called about nazia headaches trash new name with these are citizen complaints but zero violations. I don't know about yard but I have a small business if somebody calls them complaints and there's zero problems I kind of wonder what's going on. Then in twenty twenty two we there were fourteen inspections and zero violations twenty twenty there was one complaint there were twelve inspections in twenty twenty one but what's interesting even with all these inspections no violations no violations I would expect him to be perfect in fact they can't possibly be at six hundred and nine acres lots of people lots of moving parts lots of trash recently there was a boat that was taken to the dumb. The boat had been in a car accident and there had been a fire it would move to the dot it was fibre glass boat with tires battery gas oil has taken to the set aside. And then it was pushed over in the down well guess what happened when all that collided it cut fire they continue pushing it over to put it out and certificate the fire not supposed to have tires in that nice plus have fibre glassness plus oil and ask for set battery such was again. Guess what the violations were now sitting. No violation. That's just not possible. To twenty twenty two forty nine citizen compliance two violations one complaint with no follow up. Here's an interesting warrant this is just one month of march. These are all each eight violations. The. Yeah. That's the soup when rain hits the landfill and filters down through all of the lovely trash that we all have and the water that comes out in a leaks out. This. The. Addq probably has on the most important jobs in the side of arkansas. It's not a very sexy agency but it's one of the most important agencies that we have they are the referees and they're the ones that make sure not only is the game fair but our drinking water has to be and everything that we'd breathe has to be something that's clean. You don't get me more important and clean air and claim water. And I think the citizens of northwest arkansas deserve cleaner and clean water what's going to happen with this landfill it's already full we don't need any more permits when a more expansions on the landfill unless we can handle what we have what concerns me is when I was asking a former director not the current one why is this keep coming back with no violations no violations well we have handled it we've handled it less what is a mean you've handled it well we re home that employee. The employee when they were doing in a surprise inspection had been tipping off the landfill ahead of time. I think about that. We have all these incredible state employees but we have some that are not so incredible in this particular employee in adeq was telling the landfill ahead of time when a surprise inspection was going to happen. She refers how wrong that is. They had convinced an employee that they had to tell them when a surprising thing I hope that's what it was because otherwise they would have to have been bribing them are giving them money under the table or tickets to some game but they were putting people's lives at risk fourteen fires. What happens when the bulldozer gets sucked under in a ground fire and a farmer has to go after that person. That's that's employees of the landfill that could die. That's an explosion it's not a gas plant. So my thing gas plant now which is great using that trash to produce my thing gas is great but what happens what that gas plan explodes. That's important to so there's a lot of things that do not have our own principle we need addq but we need them on their game we need to know that their game is the best game it can be entound. And no excuse. But perfection no excuse and these are bad. With that I will leave it. Mayor would you like to make any comments. Thank you. I just want to let you know that I have tried to have contacted adeq i've gone to the pollution control and a college. Every single meeting this year except for one which I was out of town I am speaking up from my citizens. Right now. Waste management is digging a hole three hundred and eighty feet from the side of my house. For the next land bill cell. My next door neighbor passed away with cancer. We don't know if it's because of the fumes. The people across the street they're all what they're both on oxygen. My daughter that's just thirty years old has chunks of here coming out and they cannot find out the reason why. She's extremely healthy. A hundred and twenty five pounds. They don't know why her liver insigns were three hundred and eighty eight whenever the normal range was fourteen to thirty. My grandson eleven year result or found out that he has. Arthritis we don't know why. They live directly in connection to the landfill or lands connect. We have asked. We have begged I have seen in letters we need some help adv is not doing their job in helping maintain that land bill and i'm coming to us asking for help. Thank you. Representative lunch him. Do you have anything else to represent hunger to sound for colleague for. And I realized that every time we change administration's ad changes a lot of staff but this has become a systemic issue where we kick the can down the road so I don't want it to be a pile on calerba or anything like that I think we need to look at the future where we put a new landfill how we close this one allow it to be a gas occasion plant where they do sell the cast they can run their dump trucks after those I think we need to look at what can we do better with the technology that we have and move forward instead of just issuing one more permit. So. With that i'll entertain any questions per right you have a question. That. I don't know I ask last session before the session what bills do I need to run and represent a pins that excuse me senator penzo uhm. And I would be more than happy in it and represent the what teeth can we give you to help you do your job better cause if if if it's not then it's on our. If we're not giving you the tools that we need. Are the chosen tuna then that's right now we've got the tools. We've got the tools is it. So now i'm saying you've got the tools let's see it. You get good for now center right okay. Alright anybody else. Culture. Thank you mister well one in our seat earned rock **** named written all over this thing but I have a number of questions when adq comes up that are representative once from do you know is there been any ocean inspections are that you know no sir not that I know okay in. I tell you what center johnson said earlier that you can observe a lot just by looking around so mayor I would be up there tomorrow and i'm going to drive over this community and see for my for myself. You know how bad is looking at the pictures it's just it's horrible in you have such a beautiful community up there and you know this affects property better not only health property values tourism you know so many different things because it is it's tragic you know what i've seen this but our so I appreciate for representative long strumment ungrand and the mayor for bringing this to the committee because and you know I have some pretty pointed questions for adq about you know what what's being done or what's going to be done about this situation so thank you thank you miss chairman in your questions of these folks right now for main members. Such a center rate. May I answer that in my meeting with the geology department I ask about that and. Just and and always speaking for last year or so I have brought this up with some of the people I met with only river water shed. And it seemed like they're not interested in the landfill now they are fascinated with chicken coops and septic tanks I mention that if the geology department and quite frankly the two phds in the room almost laughed out loud they said they seem to be time about illness he said you you're right in observing that they seem to be fascinated with fecal matter but they're not interested in industrial chemicals and so that. Basically i'll ahead on that but I have had the same question center. The. Right the table is born you want to come and anybody want to bring with you jocket slide to the side but not for please. Yeah. Yet for all right what have I cho leave your stuff on the tables for folders and clear the deck let's let you come on and. As we go. Yeah. Hey apps represent lunch rumoured under and mayor file would just step to the site let's little you can leave the binders are being a personal stuff you want to take. Yeah. And mister you would when you team established if you were the. Named entitled for the records please. I would be happy to think it was chair kale bosborne energy environment chief and the insurer the environment i'm joined a day by any chief of staff lore ballard i'm also joined by our debit associate director for water bailey taylor but previously she was the associate administrative the environment and has been very involved in a number of the complaints and inspections helping track those in the responses so she's joining us today and at the end of the row here we have jurors wife who is the associated director for do you use office of land resources which is the section that permits our solid waste okay assurance he machines won't give you the mike you've heard the comments and your response and reaction please think of this chair i'll touch on a couple things and then we'll try to do our best answer questions I will save it. Since I took over that took on this role in january I think that this economist a tiny town has been one of the predominant issues that we have worked on we have spent a lot of time and effort and we will share so few details as we go about some of the effort that my team and our staff is expenditure working on these it was not specified clearly in the prior comments but there have been two pending permanents for the expansion of the landfill one is for a word is the technical term is the class for side which is the construction debris there is a class one side which is your traditional landfill both of those permits have been issued one I think was in march and we should the other one in june or july both are subject to the pending appeal are police control and ecology commission will hear a recommended decision on the class for appeal on friday so a number of the issues it raised today or part of that administrative record of its subject to the briefing the mayor is well as a number of citizens of tony town or party to that appeals she mentioned and we appreciate her commitment that she has come and spoke with the commission how spoken out he has gone to grey effort on her behalf of her citizens and herself to raise these issues and share those but I do want to make this committee aware that she is a party to that suit and challenge these two appeals and there is additional and voluminous information on this there first thing I want to say and it's a comment that represent lunch you're made. And it's something that that we want to share and she and she touched sign a couple times I think it is really the heart of the issue that's going on here northwest arkansas booming nos also has one landfill north ourselves also in the middle of course typography including the st joe in the boon and we can share some more details as to why we believe it permit can be issued for landfills in this area but the larger issue is is that the capacity which were currently hearing or currently working on issues of an expansion for the landfill there is significant demand for space in that land film there's going to be significant demand we know that a number of entities are looking around the state in other areas for opportunities for other landfills so we want to be part of that solution we want to be part of those conversations I think it will need to be driven by the northwest arkansas it's a regional issue because all those cities in towns up there it's beyond tiny town we certainly understand the man to the issue for tiny town but I will let you know that we have heard representatives from a number of towns and a number of other districts in that part of the state about where they're trash where their waste is going to go so we want to be part of that solution is that comes together I don't know that we can be the ones to drive that solution because I think there's a lot of local in regional decisions it must be made but we want to be part of that now what we had before us for two percent applications that we have acted on and we have issue they are subject to appeal so they are stayed although the whole did the digging that is going on. Sees me mayor russell referenced the our commission has given a waste management the ability to continue construction on their class for landfill so some of that stuff is going on it is being heard before commission in his pending so first one mentioned the regional issue the second and we can talk about these specific service but I know the doctor is study that was mentioned the nexus to the owner river the data racing was done in conjunction with their permit application it's required as part of the. Hydrog and the other geological inspections are and studies that need to be done for us to make our permanent decisions based on a technical record that did the the it the instance of seeing the diane while crack creek will did result and that sort of analysis results and controls that are included in the permit. To make sure that the type of impact it the concerns had been expressed that many of you all have asked a few questions about our address is that goes forward in the permit in our team here have much more technical expertise can talk about that mr swiftle is a geologist so I think he'd be more than happy to talk about some of these issues. So I will I will also mention that I know the representative was from brought up the number of inspections that we have done. I believe he couldn't find wrong but I think we have we've done forty four inspections and twenty twenty three of this site alone typically for a landfill you do a quarterly inspection and that is a pretty impressed as actually pretty aggressive inspection. Pace for us in a quarter to do once a quarter to make sure we hit the next two hundred and eighty permitted sites they're out there we have inspected the site forty four times a large number of them are complaint driven we are doing our best to fall through on those complaints we've had some questions about that raised before a commission and we recently presented on that that we had turned around within definitely the forty eight twenty four hours on the complaint recently that there was a concern from the constituent so we were not responsive. We have expended a lot of time doing that the representative once from also mentioned some of the issues such as daylighting of leach and some of those things that were not formally enforced against we didn't have an order or levy fine because when we drew it to the attention of waste management they addressed it within twenty four forty eight hours that to us is the ideal that they will get back and get right when we. When we had see an issue that it is addressed because it needs to be addressed by the permitting the permitted I will. Staff there and see cause I have an idea that there are a few questions that we have but I do want you all to know that this has been a. Carefully consider a decision in that we spend quite a bit of time analyzing this for the concerns and we certainly agree with reversing lunch then that we need to be on top of our game and we're doing our best to do that because we take seriously protecting the water and they are quality for all our cances but we also recognize that what we deal with or some very difficult technical issues at times that can be very challenging for us to address into and to fully. Understand and address what's going on so i'll start there sorry a ramble too long that if there's questions were happy to answer who we're going to go on the list we got coach general buried then we're going to go to representative bentley and then we're going to go to senator solomon so general thing was chairman mr how long you say you've been on the job. I was pointed by governor sanders january tenth eleventh and what did you do prior to that your position though so most recently I was served as cheaper staff for the department of parks here it is in tourism did that for about four almost four years proud of that I was heard of the office of water quality with you okay so you would agree with me that disappears significant problem that we're talking about here up in northwest arkansas are correct. Yes sir this is this is certainly a serious and challenging issue okay so if it's serious and challenging have you been there personally and seen had eyes on the problem no sir i've not visited the same do you know of ocean has been up there made any inspections. I'm not sure we do not deal directly with ocea okay does your staff have any interaction whatsoever with oceanic and in a situation like this concerning the landfill I don't believe so okay so does do you have a long range strategic plan to address issues such as discuss this is poor planning in or in my opinion knowing that that northwest arkansas drawing is fascinated and then we continually generate trash we continually dump it double it there and it's just it's just out of control I was aware it was this bad until I saw the the pictures and everything this morning I plan to go up there and look at it but if I was the mirror be contacting the sheriff and having them issue citations to this landfill because they're littering their lettering the community and it's just it is it's horrible and I would suggest that the o should be contacted by the mirror also to see if there's any violations up there potentially have to shut that place down because somebody is not doing their job there's no accountability to hold people accountable at four the mess that is up there when it is destroying these people so communities with with trash and something's gonna have to be done and done a pretty quick my recommendation as being the the director in the head of the agency where the buck stops are my suggestion would be for you to go up there in and put some eyes on that landfill and see exactly what the problem is that's all I have mister chairman thank you care respond mr. Well I will say in regards to visiting the site I think that's that is the good recommendation it is something that we have had in the works in his has not come together to to make it out there but I think it's well received and I appreciate your comments on that we'll talk with our staff about the i'm not familiar on the ocean side we may need to talk with the department of labor and licensing about that and what what next is there may be there but we may look into that as well in family to your point. I think we do agree that there needs to be a larger regional consideration in future planning I think that is going to need to be driven by the solid waste districts that are up there and for other key entities the regional planning commission and others we would like to be part that conversation but I also don't believe that the community is north arkansas I want you to be dictating that that's there's there's a number of layers of local and I have their excuse but I agree with either however I do believe there is a d q responsibility to hold that land filled accountable. In and that's not being done so being in on the discussions all that's great but but your job whether it be wasted water a storm water you know whatever it's adq's responsibility to hold those people accountable and I can't understand if you got a significant problem like this how these people can pass so many inspections. It doesn't make sense to me so i'll leave it at that in no response required for me thank you. She a representative bentley. The. So i'll ask to address this because I mentioned earlier that as part of the permitting process to that dow was injected to see where the possible pathways were for something to come in from the site and the response to that there is a groundwater monitoring world network around the site there has been one I believe it's going to be expanded with these new permit issues but i'll ask you to expand on that because he can speak with more authority thank you briefly let me explain the dies study that was implemented there because I think there's a little confusion on that so the proposed location of the class for landfill they dug a pit below grade well at depth were at the class for a landfill location and then don't die into that dog pit well below where the landfill will be constructed then. Pre line are correct there will be a liner installed above this pit this was at the very first stages of construction this effort was to determine if there would be a needed additional group water monitoring in the area so they die flowed a different direction towards allow cat creek where it was reported and detected that was told us that we need to install additional monitoring wells in that area and that is part of light will be installed with the new permit. If it is finally approved and issued so there is no leak to a while cat creek let me be very clear we have sample that area and there have been non detect for all analytes that were sampled there. Yes okay. Yeah. So. What we have received a number of complaints from citizens in what we what are our role is with our inspectors is to go on site in an attempt to verify what they've seen. A number of these that we have received had been complaints regarding certain operational issues or. Uh perceived issues about what I are going on that we either don't agree with what was believed by the once our inspectors have been on the side have seen what's going on there's there's not been agreement on that or there are other circumstances that. Can just about going on so each of those complaints really should not be considered a equivalent to a violation or another issue and there have been some as I mentioned earlier like the the daylighting of leach which you see some of it coming out through the the landfill that has to do with the cover that they're placing on top of the the landfill and then that can be remedy quickly by the operator and there are some other issues that we've had I know represent one stream or mayor russell mentioned some odor complaints and other issues we have we have gone to the site a number of times we've had folks there that were not able to identify the conditions of concerns I had it were raised by the public and and we have tried different strategies to see that but. You know there there's been a range of experiences of what we've seen I know there was fairly recently a question about trucks leaving the site and dirt and other things accumulating on the road did not go through the wash out some of that I know that in the past we've had that issue and we have worked with waste management that they have indicated to us where they have done a correct the issue all on the way so I think there's a wide range of potential outcomes and potential causes of what's going on we as we said we have seen some issues and we have been to the site quite a bit and we have you know really all of them I think and I can speak for what we've done this year we've had the forty four or so that we've done they have been pretty immediately dealt with and responded to very quickly. Give me elsewhere oh I will mention that the story that reversal insurance mentioned about the boat we did and I need to make sure that you got the report that we did now that you mention that i'm i'm concerned that it never went through that may be my fault and if it is apologized. We did follow with waste management regarding the disposition of that boat I do not have the report in front of me but I know there were questions about tires the internet in a part of the landfill they shouldn't have gone in and fuel and other things waste management was able to rather information documentation and images from cameras that they had on site as to what happened to give us evidence to address the most serious concerns trickly around the tires mean thrown in a part of the way in fill it should not have been so one thing about that we will find that report representation insure that show that with you and I apologize I thought we had that that was on mistake so you're having a result. It. Back back to the day trace requestion I just wanted to offer their twenty seven ground water montren wells out of this area to monitor. The. You're. The the request is a list of the fines that have been issued against that and sent representative if you don't mind i'm or expand that. Well a list a list of the violations that should have had fines associated with it. And how many phones were actually given that way we'll have a comparison list. That possible free older provide I minutes within your wheelhouse right here yes or we can we can pull together a list of those reports and and and identification what we have seen I will share the and this has been our practice I can't speak to what happened representative bentley and her situation that is not how we would want to handle the situation where you have a small land owner and something going on I can't see it speak to it but I understand your frustration there. We we will share with you we will highlight what potential violations we saw our standard practice is to if we can get the permitted entity to address it immediately we will not pursue fines and civil penalties against those so I want to caveat it without. The. But there is we do try to have an opportunity for immediate remedy of those are those issues as we see them. And you that request that you made represent bentley is strictly to that landfill a kind of got the impression you were expanding it outside that but we're we're talking just that land phil up there yes sir it's understood thank you mister well more expand a little bit more than requests the coach that would include other landfills as well. Give us give us up is that right but go ahead and speak there I just just really thank mister this is not just a problem northwest arkansas the way I see it the oversight of adq is in question here so I would like to see any of the violations and fines that have been levied upon other land bills in the state of arkansas. Miss share we will work on that it may take us expanding the net that broadly it may take us while to make sure we have a thorough list to you but we'll work on them and I was it was just point out to me i've kind of gone slack on repeating questions just because it consumes time but the question it was asked in the request has been made is that a list of the violations the fines attached and to collection history of those phones unless less sort of this way start off with this landfill and get this and then expand it out with less get this one first because it's the one that subject of matter for today okay. So represent mentally you don't okay next year to go center sullivan and then center bride and then represent birth such on the transmillish. So her solvent they go ahead and ask your question a more repeated. So the question was. So the question is clarification on what you said that if the violation has been found and fine that donor operator is not going to be proactive and get anything done they're just going to wait until until you come along and side him and issue a fine that is out of fair interpretation question there change selling okay our good machines from. It said I understand that concern we do not believe that that is. We believe there. The the the path and the approach that we take out with informal enforcement ultimately yields better outcomes II understand that concern but with permitted in these facilities that we are dealing with we have found that this is a can be an effective strategy to not have that they know that the ability for us to level levy civil penalties is out there is always out there even if we ask them to do it and correct it we can still follow up and do that a lot of times the issue it's one thing if they need to go regret a portion of their landfill where they have put dirt cover over it and that maybe they didn't put they move their machinery into an area they shouldn't have and they created a reat that needs to be addressed it's something else if it's going to take six or eight months for them to fix it or if they have a wasteward this is a jumping out to another type of permitted facility if we have a voice where a treatment facility with the default piece of equipment they are not gonna be able to fix that overnight they're not built fix that immediately that is the sort of thing that we're going to need to move more towards enforcement we we try to use these on things where in the next you know two weeks you know fourteen twenty eight thirty days that they can be immediately a dressed and we have found some success with that sometimes it's it's for some is broken and we happen to be there sometimes a mistake was made and it was quick building remedy it's that but we understand it here you're concerned and I think that we constantly try to be visual in about that and we are working towards a long term goal of compliance with these initiatives because we are dealing with them all the time and a lot of them are landfills or perfect example that they are a permanent picture they're there and so we have to manage intend to a long range relationship with these folks but we certainly hear here that concern that has not been our experience but it's a good it's a good item for us to talk about with our compliance team about what we're seeing and and other strategies we can incorporate. Question is how many inspections are done statewide. We perform eight hundred and eighty compliance and spections annually four solid waste. How many of those have had had no findings I don't have any information sir. Could you get it provided to the staff so we can get it out to the committee we can thank you senator sold. Ever declined to air inspections. Air quality. With with this facility in particular are with just in general. We have had individuals in this community ask us to conduct certain types of air quality inspections that we do not have equipment or a method to be able to do the there is a you know some of them related to odor and some other things like that we we do not have the ability of technical capability to perform some of those I will say that we have shared our concern insured the concern of the community with epa epa has deeper set of technical resources that they can bring to bear and we've asked them some questions about it and in what I took away from those conversations not to speak on behalf of a. Is it the e some of communicating in the type of monitoring that folks are asking for there's not really good really available technology or the method to use that technology is not always out there so we're continuing to evaluate that and consider it and what we can do we're talking we have an office of our quality we're talking with them their primary concern around the echo this this site is around the the gas plant and. And how that is that has been operated we've done inspections there but there continued to be some questions about some other things that we do not have the ability to conduct the testing in the manner that some folks have assembled and I don't want to leave decline to do in inspection but there are some that we can't do for the for the means in which they've asked us to do that. Question is should the local art much the local community approve the site or be. Involved in improving the site was that fair center solvent. The. So. Yes they do have a role in our rule twenty two there are two and I think is also which is based I don't have the statue provision in front of me but there are two parts of the process that review involved community engagement involvement and approval first from the solid waste management district that is out there there has to be a certificate of need issued for the for the site and that has ultimately I think we approved by the by the board but there is a public notice in comment. That is involved with that there is also a. Host community approval requirement that there are in the rules it specifies in this case with the location of the way of fill in tiny town it is clear there's some others it it's within a certain range that is you know who the host community is the host community has to approve of the landfill. If the local community says no does it stop the project. The under our rule the community must approve before permit application is processed so if the community says no before a permit for a new application comes in that we do not are under our rule or not able to proceed with that if the community says no to an expansion application is there that we're not allowed to proceed with that but if they have approved then we we move forward to that and take that as the. Am. All right and sooner right. On the groundwater moderate groundwater monitoring how often do you do that assess it and who has access to that. Yes thank you all of the information is available on our website through the solid waste database so all of those reports that are submitted to the department we work through putting those up so people can access them from the public view it does take some time a few days for that to get posted but it is does happen pretty timely back to your question of how often is it monitored sampled you have some wells that are sampled monthly and some that are sampled quarterly depends on some of the things that they are looking for individual constituents. The. At third party sir question was who does it do a third party. Who has third party the permittee what hired that third party yes sir. The. That the department does not hire consultants towards and the person who has the permanent are the ones who hire the third party certified laboratory to run those analytes for submission to the department. No clarify what you're saying just for the benefit may be less than so the part of the party that's going to do the verification water or air in one. Is not hired by but it's hired their hired by the permit holder is that what you said yes that's correct who verifies the results. That are presented and are you the recipient of the results are you the agency that receives those yes we are who verifies. The person who who verifies the company it was hired it's almost like the chicken garden hand house who who verifies their results so. I'm not an expert on that field so i'm not going to get into the weeds but there are third party laboratories certification criteria that is external from the department i'm not necessarily involved with that but when that laboratory data is submitted a department for review we have a t move engineers geologists and risk assessors that review that submitted information okay and I will get to a center brand do you have any more. Did the whole city approved this app permit the application. So this is a topic that is subject of the pending appeal that will be heard on friday there was an initial approval and then there was a. Withdrawal a recision of that decision the department has continued to proceed with the application and there have been that was a topic that was specifically appealed and I think should be part of what's going to be taken out by our commission on the po in the follow up they'll be acting on that on friday and I think it's also been raised in the separate permit appeal which is ongoing and going through discovery right now. Yep good. I can show the questions are any time frame of associate with the approval that it can be approved in public comment can you speak to them to the timing of the approval and that they're okay. Not having rule twenty two open in front of me right now my recollection is that there is not really a contemplation of a window of time post the the the way the rule is written as that the approvals are in place and that triggers a regulatory action by our team in acting on a permit application some of these questions in in such as you have raised I don't think her explicitly addressed in there or contemplated based on my recollection but we can provide those citations to that rule if if you have further interest in that. Represent berks. Should the question is representative lunchtrem had referred to ditests that are scheduled to be taken or have those been scheduled and if so when are they going to occur said correct representative I do not have all that information in front of me but i'd be happy to provide that to you. Would you send it to the staff please go here. Yes representative of any future so we have made the the two permitting decisions that are now subject to appeal if waste management so. For sake of argument will assume that they are upheld by our commission and move forward if in the future waste management had a desire to expand further to make other significant changes such as that it would require the the saladwest district strift you need approval and the house community approval going forward yes. Question is what is the agency need from legislators in order to be able to do your job. Better. You know is was we've alluded to a couple times and I think it reps in berry brought up earlier about kind of seeing it as a regional issue in a challenge I think that you all is the elected officials for you know really throughout the state some these are issues there are much broader than just no west arkansas I think we feel it and see it more keeple enormous dark it's all right now the ability to convene the right stake holders in the people to come up with a good solution on a regional basis as I said earlier in a representative. May disagree with me a little bit about our role to play I we want to be part of that but I think the best outcome comes when you are who represent more broadly the different districts in areas of the state can come together and help drive the keystake holders to a solution so they then we can act on it and a technical nature for the regulatory review for what that solution is but some of the things your community and your citizens are going to they know what the answer is in a way that we won't and so I think your can help convene and drive in those directions to soft some of these problems in a way that we can't because really what our role is down to you and it was discussed earlier in this is that we have a minute the the statutes they are given to us and the rules are the approved in. There are times that it. You know ours is ultimately bored down to really a technical review of what what activities people can do this and environmentally appropriate and responsible way so I think that is the biggest thing that can be done because I think a lot of attentions were seeing here is in the concerns were seeing altering boil down to some of those larger issues there beyond the perview of what we really do and there are certainly some environmental concerns and issues going on at this and other sites but I think that's the bigger solution or the bigger longer term longer range vision piece that can happen though there were really just yaudin create us to do that. All right the only es question you mentioned about the third party represent of launched from reference maybe the mayor provided up a hand out have you seen have yell seen the hand out that we were given of the pictures could we get them up. Can we get them a copy if we got one. The. If if I add our clear fire make sure I understood what you said right amendment go. That there was no red die that was found in while kept creek did you say that or did I misunderstand that. Yeah. Senator there was die found in the create just to be clear yes so if that's what I said I apologize because that's not correct we did fine the die in while get creek okay thank you and and the diet it was found in the creek. Was it within normal limits I think there's plus her mind as sush you know variances. The. The which it was within normal variances or was it found to be in violation the amount of red die. I don't know that I can answer that question sir well if I may jump in an ad the purpose for the ditesting that was done and for this review is is my understanding is part of the permit application that was submitted for the expansion. That and they were asked to do this as part of a new geologic geotechnical investigation that's going on that underguards the ultimate permitting decision that's done so this was this was the die was there intentionally placed for a purpose that ultimately were result in the monitoring well network that is there that did your mention earlier so it was not that I don't want this to get lost in our earlier conversation about compliance and other things like that this was done as part of a specific study that is intended to inform on a technical basis the insurance of the permit that we put out there now there certainly can be disagreement and some folks have appealed on the basis of what this may or may not mean but we want the committee to understand that this day was there for a reason the result of that was we required things and groundwater monitoring and we required certain parameters to be monitored going forward on the basis of that sold them a question is based on this the die test. Did it. Did it forward in the range that cause use an agency to have any concern. About issuing the permit to move for. So the day we use is a while the die used as a non toxic die so I think I understand the okay my question is that I would and and this is educational rate the die was put in in order to determine what to determine the direction of groundwater flow from the proposed landfill location okay and does that flow into the while cat creek yes sir that was found through this study **** then this is pre liner so now that the liner will be built should anything ever escape this you know double line system then now we know where make up so because of that they added four additional monitoring wells and then the also the sampling of wild kept wild cat creek and semi annually and then some of those wells are monitored monthly summer monotoned quarterly so we would know if there was any impact to the liner also the legit collection system would probably know first and then secondary those monitoring wells were let us know that there's a possible impact of the minor okay right a couple of quick ones and nobody else's on the list. Do you have questions go and generally. Thank you you know I consider myself the fairly well educated my wife tells me i'm dumber in a box of rock sometimes but would you agree with me anybody up there that the errors part of the environment. And you say air is paying yeah is yes sir that is that is one of the areas under our perview we have an office of our quality okay but and I may have misunderstood but did you say you do not have the equipment to monitor the air. There have been complaints regarding odor and some other things that are extremely difficult to monitor in the way that certain constituents have requested that we be able to do but there is a monitoring that goes on at the site regarding regarding the gas plant that is there there are other controls that are in place even even down in the fact that every night they're required to cover over the open face to the landfill where they are dumping the waste those are controls are in place regarding the air and environmental air impact when I raised that question earlier wanted to you know addressed the fact that we have had there is a. There had been complaints and request for specific types of monitoring that we we don't have capability to do but we have been involved in our air team has been involved in assessing what's going on and controlling in ways or requiring controls and ways that we can so in remember the bellavista fire issue up there and I think that was kind of out of the expertise of a adq to be able to monitor the air up there so that what they did and say talk to the national garget civil support team guys over there because they can they can. You know ever dear passes gas in the in the woods they can determine exactly what that odor is so is that something if it's a significant issue up there with the air quality is that something that you might consider is having the civil support team go up there and sample the air and see if it is a health problem. I don't I don't know that we have discussed it with them that we can look into that further okay thank you mister. Replaced lunch from you would like to ask question. The. Question is does not and who did you say. And they do. You can request that I don't think most of our air records are available online but you can request those results they turn them in to us a water times we also witnessed the te. Yes we can look at you know how we can share that on our. The. Yeah we'll work with our air quality team and ways that we can make that information available ok and summarizing what representatives was as far as about the air quality chest where they are bill bar they available on the website in representative lunch room would you like to have maybe the last year's worth of air test sent to the to the staff so they can dispense that to the committee. Yeah. Quick which are my doing their place if you get that to the staff so we can push that out to the committee please. Okay. All right I have no other questions from any members only got a I got a statement and then i'm on about representative lunchtime the mayor in represent her under back to the table because I will give them the final rep here's tell me if there will go here since hammer if I may I am I think direct draws were covered it but I do want to make sure and we want to be here today to answer questions and we appreciate the feedback did want to remind that this is pending a current appeal on the class for in the class one expansions and those in the decision it's been given on wine not the other so any interpretations of walls and rules and things we tried to get our sort of feedback here today but certainly those are all subject to a current appeal such want to make sure everybody on the committee was aware and into that question I ask you so because I think you said this friday at determination is coming out that determination may have is going to have some effect on the future of the of the direction landfill the permit there's been issued all that stuff that that's what you can be wrapped up in the determination of litigations are correct. And what I believe so that's that is certainly one step I think there are other steps in the process if if they are so undertaken but am I would be completely honest with you I do not know the fine details of what is in that recommended determination so I don't want to give too much information there before I don't we don't want to be in trouble so i'm on a moment statement just tell me if my interpretation is correctly uh seemed like we're in a little bit of quandary up in that part of the world because we get lane fill it multiple years old in a very rapidly expanding area which is a which it was great. But it's rapidly expanding area that's in area that questionable whether landfill should have been allowed to be there in the first place such water in the breach it is what it is it is where it is. In any advancement of that landfill you're trying to make sure that a complied with the most current technology to prevent the greatest amount of leakage or damage in in any area. But in the meantime. What are still say while go there needs to be at least an initiative or there is one that needs to be really given some attention as far as alternate sight or alternative methods and the old thing I can think of is getting it out of that area if that area is not conducive to a landfill it should have never been there in the first place. So there is. Ongoing effort to determine if alternate sight would be best practices or any future expansions of this one for sure hell to the higher standards to prevent any damage to to the neighbors is it's at. Anything I just said that you can respond to in fact it the sprayed is coming that you would disagree with. Well the one thing in particular i'm glad that you raise this is that the role twenty two which is the rule that the establishes the requirements for how we're going to permit these sites has been updated posted two thousand two blor legislate about it or seemingly slightly bottered report that representative mention there are specific requirements that are in there regarding the uh boom in st joe formations regarding cars formations bailey taylor mentioned a minute ago that the winers and the construction that's going on that there are heightened engineering specifications for any new expansion in all that's going on it's in this permit that we have going forward so yes to your point earlier that those the the specs in the engineering the design we believe we have advance and and and approved a permit it achieved those certainly wanted this committee to be aware that there have been updates and response to some of the concern that had been raised in the years past. Regarding some of the other issues at you know we'll just reiterate wanted to count a pickup in echo the comment from from everything lunch from earlier about seeing this as a larger broader solution we stand ready to help the technical guidance in insight where we can provide that information about our rules information you know our team jerry mentioned we had a number of layers engineering geological other risk assessment expertise that we're happy to talk with folks as they embark down these roads and have those conversations okay which say this. Conclusion and that is. You know if their violations that are occurring. Appropriate response in time the manner even if it means. The finished a motivator I would hope and I think his time goes on as we assessors that the agency isn't turning a blind dies to the same so you know if there's enforcement that needs to be done if you're find violations but there's no you don't know punishment associated with them I think it's a future process so I would highly encourage you to as we get these numbers back I don't think you really want to come back in front of us and have to explain why there's such a great number of violations but no action being taken to curb the activity of the landfill okay have nobody else on for questions and we also raise your hands a party words. Center representatives you all want come back to the table for anything conclusion or mayor. Good okay right. Culture anything I want to commend all the members that have stuck around and ouch then beyond what i'd have hoped but uh appreciate appreciate very much airbags sticking to now and giving your full due to your to your responsibility and with no other business in front of us we are journal.