Transportation, Technology & Legislative Affairs - Senate & Public Transportation-House

The core of the joint transportation technology and legislative affairs and house public transportation I want to thank my friend coacher hockey who's here. Mischairman do you have anything you like to say just briefly just first of all it was difficult to find a convenient time to have meeting everyone's busy this time of the year so we certainly appreciate all of either here and I want thank everyone from all the ages showed up to the to give us what information we need an answer question thank you mister thank you sir up and be we need a motion to approve for the authorized the chairs to approve special expenses incurred by the committees do I have a motion by representative touch through second. Uh. We got several second so. I'll favor say I thank you motion carries now we need a motion to prove the minutes from december sixth february december sixth february twenty one what's been a long time since we better join meeting as in mr february twenty third. October tenth motion and second old favorite say I posed thank you motion carries okay we will move on to adam d. Discussion of our kansas driving with expired temporary tags and I want to ask our commission revenue charlie collins and paul gearing a assistant commissioner revenue and miss christian heart the insisted administrative motor vehicle they will come to the table and we will. Yeah. We'll talk about this thank you all for coming in at as chairman how come say as it's difficult time of the year to get everybody here appreciate charcoming this close when moving there the holidays are. Yeah. Date thank you for calling you know the drill would you please enter all three introduced yourselves for the record that thank you mister chairman managed charlie collins on the commissioner revenue and we appreciate the opportunity to come today and have this discussion what we did back at the fort was sit down with our different groups that are associated with temp tags that includes our dsmv or driver services motor vehicle teams christies representing them here today also are tax credits group legal obviously with our assistant commissioner paul gearing and kind of talk through the different arenas in hopefully the presentation that we put together that commissioner assistant commissioner gearing is gonna walk through will address a lot of questions and then of course we're happy to discuss further after that thank you message here they can be chair of polgering with dfa assistant review commissioner and mrperiod hart introduced her feel introduced yourself christian heart assistant administrator for department of a graver services motor vehicle okay thank you and I gather paul the commission just as handing the maton over to you so you're welcome to tell us what we need to know about temporary day certainly thank you mister chair so we do have an overview of the vehicle purchased process that we will present as well as talk about some statistical information on taxes collected in the amount of transactions that we process as well as talk about in this presentation what efforts that dfa utilizes in order to address the issue of vehicles that are being purchased at and driven in this state that have temporary tags on them that have been expired so at the time of a motor vehicle purchase the the either the dealer or the person can get a temporary tag from dfa at a state revenue office but the the purchaser is required to obtain a temporary tag. A d temporary tag is valid for up to sixty day period or until the person comes to dfa and registers their motor vehicle. And there's also the ability in our law in case the temporary tag becomes becomes damaged ripped off of the vehicle etc that the buyer can go back to the dealer who obtain a temporary tag. The temporary tag if it's replacement replaced through and being lost or damage it's valid with the same expiration day of sixty days or until registration there is the ability for a dealer to provide a temporary tag to a customer in circumstances where the individual the buyer or potential buyer is going to have a a test drive vehicle for up to seventy two hours and also a dealer can issue a temporary tag if their customer is going to have their their vehicle in the shop they can let that customer drive an unregistered vehicle with a temporary tag efficient to it. There in the temporary tag process it there is a requirement to capture a some important information including the dealer name and the master license plate number the buyer's name the date of issues the vehicle identification number the make a model of the vehicle and the expiration date of the temptage. That information that is entered by the issue or primarily it's the dealer is going to be uploaded into the database that off maintained by the office of motor vehicle and the information in that database is available to dfa as well as two law enforcements so that they can enforce our laws regarding registration sale of vehicles as well as registration. The. So the numbers in front of you on this slide address the temporary tags issued by dfa by year so you'll see that of course of the over or approximately three hundred thousand tags that can be issued in a year where we're registering approximately two hundred thousand a year of course that's yeah that declined in both twenty one and twenty two of course in twenty twenty we had a a large surge with the pandemic with people buying vehicles because the manufacturers were offering great incentives to to sell vehicles interest rates were low course in twenty one and twenty two we were feeling the effects of reduced inventory available for sale. But here we are on twenty twenty three we are that that's a partial year but the important thing to note is that of all the temporary tags that issued obviously those temporary tags are not always going to be associated with a registration because they have the ability to issue a duplicate temporary tag the dealer can issue a tag for a motor vehicle for demonstration purposes and there may not be an actual sale of the vehicle and then also the issue of the temporary tag being placed on an unregistered vehicle in order for the customers actual vehicle to be repaired. The. In our console just like in many other states when the buyer they do not pay their sales tax at the dealership and when they purchase the vehicle and the buyer has a obligation to come to dfa register their vehicle and and also pay their sales tax honor before the date of registration of course the buyer also has an obligation to go to their county offices and have the vehicle assessed for property tax purposes that's a requirement that dfa we check to make sure that the vehicle has been assessed before we will issue a registration. And in two thousand twenty three session that deadline to register a vehicle was extended from thirty to sixty days. And in this slide we have the gross amount of state sales tax collections these are calendar year numbers and not fiscal year numbers but as you'll see we are collecting in state sales tax on motor vehicle purchases in the neighborhood of. Four hundred to five hundred million dollars per year. Excuse me just a moment yes that is he said that it's calendar year yes not fiscal year that's correct that's calendar year information and that is only their state sales tax that's collected just not include any of the local sales taxes or any penalties that dfa might assess for late late payout and back to that moment i'm sorry yes sir. The. And also to give you an idea we have two point seven million registered vehicles in our records and arkansas in terms of current registration so we do have a a large number of vehicles that are registered in arkansas we do have a lot a significant amount of state sales tax is being collected and primarily it's being collected by individuals coming into dfa and complying with the requirements of the large register the vehicle pay the sales tax and have the vehicle assessed for property tax per purposes at the county level. Now for the purposes of todays that kind of get more information about those those individuals that are not voluntarily coming to dfa to register their vehicle then they're driving around on and expire temporary tag. So we have a number of sources of information that we rely upon in order to collect that tax that sales tax from the individual and we will utilise the information the temporary tag database to see if to get to find out the buyers information we also does the vehicle if it's financed quite often the finance company that is going to provide the financing for the vehicle they will file a direct lean with dfa so then we will have a record that there's a lean that exists on that vehicle even though the vehicle hasn't been registered will have some source information from the lender to know that there has been a vehicle purchase in there there has been associated financing also we will contact dfa employees what kind the motor vehicle dealers if the vehicle has not been registered in that sixty day period and the time tag is expired we will obtain the bill of sale from new and use vehicle dealers and match up the information on the transaction and send the purchaser a notice of proposed assessment this generally is going to apply when individuals have an arkansas address on the bill of sale we certainly understand they are going to be cars that are sold at new and used dealers in arkansas the person is going to drive to their home state whether it's oklahoma texas or or elsewhere and registered in their home state but if there is a arkansas resident purchaser that has not come to dfa in region the car and paid their sales tax we will contact them in the issue them a notice of proposed assessment now is that done by regular mail yes yes that's an arkansas when we issue a notice of proposed assessment the law requires us to send that by regular mail to the perspective the person is being assessed they do have the ability to. It's not a final bill that's what's important they have the ability to seek administrative relief they also have the ability to tell us oh yeah there was an address indicated on that bill of sale that was texarkana or bittenville or relevant though you know boy but I actually registered in in this other state here's my proof. So but if the person does not respond to the notice of proposed assessment or if the person fouls a petition with tax appeals commission in that petition ultimately resolves that they owe the tax it will go to a final assessment. And then if it does not pay at that point then it can be it can proceed to a lean filing or dfa can file a tax lane. An. There's there's the ability of course for our collections individuals to then it when it's been filed as a tax lean to seek to garnish the person's income we can also try to offset the tax that's been assessed for their vehicle transaction against any other refined that they might have available to them whether it's an income tax assessment but of course one thing that's important about off setting against income tax is that we may not have a social security number for the person on the bill of sale so with there might be a challenge in matching up the individual on that bill of sale to an income tax account within dfa. But what we take every every step that we can to try to collect the debt with the hope that ultimately the person is going to register their vehicle provide their proof of insurance and then comply with the law what we also we don't we do not do is although that we have been asked a multiple occasions when a person fails to register their vehicle we've been asked by purchasers will can you just give me a payment plan well unfortunately no we just don't have the resources for to provide the ability for someone to pay their sales tax out the law requires that the sales tax be paid honor before that you register the vehicle. So with that and we were happy to field any questions but regarding the overview and so but we won't think about dear face processes is that ultimately you when you see up. Vehicle on the road the temporary tag law enforcement mind initiate a traffic start to investigate they actually got their registration but ultimately but they might receive a ticket for driving without the proper registration on the vehicle. Okay thank you very much miss I got a couple questions in the already we're already getting fault. Coming in but first thing I wanted as on the home. The slide and again the numbers will small but that first lie for you yeah that's the way tags yes. For a it's almost a two one ratio between the temporary tags and the toll registrations for the year well if there were you know within twenty percent or some i'd say well there's other reasons they either got another car or it's out of state when but. It seems like an awful lot of temporary tags compared to the total registrations is that am I the only one seeing that volunteer some explanation for that description there are certainly is that the the innocent explanation and the interest in explanation is is that there is multiple temporary tags issued for one vehicle purchase because their tag log up last etc or the circumstance of the repair vehicle or the demonstration vehicle but in terms of the vehicle obviously what you see on the road ways is that you've got people that have the temporary tag fix their vehicle it's expired sometimes by a significant amount of time and that at that point it's up to dfa to assess but quite often what we have seen is that there are individuals that. By a vehicle get a temporary tag it gets repossessed in that that period of time or gets wrecked or that vehicle might get you know trade it in to another person for it to another dealer so there's going to be a natural turn but quite often yes we're going to see people that just. Should have come in and registered and paid the sales tax and to get a very accurate number I think are our estimate is around fourteen to fifteen thousand of those per year of temporary tags that we are going out and affirmatively assessing but. There are you know certain inability sometimes based upon the information that's in the that's any system for the temporary tag. They might have an incomplete name and we might not be able to get a bill of sale from the dealer so there are some challenges that we that we work around but certainly there's a percentage of those temporary tags were people the purchaser clearly has an obligation to to register and pay the tax they're just driving around on an expired temporary tag. First well thank you for that and it again i'm i'm still concerned with the ratio yes you're going to have a lot of those following that i'll call it frictional discrepancies as compared to their just not registering their car and has the department put some kind of a number on that where they can could say what the potential revenue last year's on that because i've and i'm not just thinking not that this is the effort i've responsibility but as you mention. One thing you have to bring in we graduate in your car you got to show you paper personal property tax and have assessed that particular vehicle or listed it for assessment. Uh depending on who in this happens during the year and i'm all throw out of it happened there to go it say I buy a car september and I get my sixty day temporary tag which is expired in november and I goof around and I just gamble that I won't get stopped or whatever and then I go in and january and assess it or add it to my assessment for the for the next year and the. Get my text have just. Avoided a year of personal property tax in that county that I live by basically. Kick in the can down the road for a few months and move in it into the next assessment year and I will I begin this again I know this is not your department to do that however your are the ones that are getting that information from the counties by computer when it is assessed so I just want to ask have you put any numbers to the escalate is there some something you could tell us what we're losing we we had a preliminary meetings to prepare for today's meeting we talked about the the numbers of these vehicles that are being there affirmatively issuing the assessment in the neighborhood of fourteen fifteen thousand temporary tags were associated with the sale that we are assessing the customer. In terms of your other quite now not dollar amount we don't have a dollar amount of course there's a dollar amount that's being assessed there's also going to be a lesser dollar amount that's actually collected and you don't know so I know the value of that particular vehicle therefore what the taxes that's part of the variable is it not that's criteria that we don't know precisely what the actual purchase priced was unless we have the bill of sale from the dealer because the the lean filing they only have the the borrowed amount so it may not reflect the actual purchase price a person might have traded in a vehicle or made a down payment but we're going to assess based upon the most available information your question regarding the property tax i'd be happy to speak with our acd department and see if that person that waited a year to assess and then they finally came in with their true bill of sale that showed that they bought the vehicle a year ago and they should have been assessed and paid property checks im not sure if they would the assessor at that point would assess them for the the period of time I just don't have that information but we be happy to talk and see but are but on a related point. When we register a vehicle. We register it for one year from the date that you come in in register we don't go back and charge you a registration fee for a period of time that you should have registered failed to there's a number you could put on that too about asking you to tell me what that would be right now but and then you brought up the fact that in when the assessment is and then we all know you in arkansas we pay personal property tax in effect a year late because you say now twenty twenty three and and I guess it's not due to october tenth desert twenty twenty four so I mean i'm not saying that. People are following the wall that's the way the law is but if you play games with your time table kick that can way way down the road almost you're in three quarters when I just describe course discern senator advantages add up with regard to one of the things that are imminent say arkansas as we didn't do this without additional people lining with us due to make it easier to register and pay your sales tax in many states a tidal is required in order to register your vehicle in arkansas and that's fairly burdensome because you've got to get releaned lease from prior lenders you've got to get other paperwork done so so that can be a complicated difficult process especially if somebody isn't when I would go the lane so in arkansas all you need is the bill of sale in a letter from the dealer stating that they are working on getting that title transferred and you can come into one of our hundred thirty four srows or do online or other ways to pay the sales tax register the vehicle get your car registered and beyond the road legally II don't know that there's any state that makes that process more simple than it is here and charlie I have heard your presentation before on there and I want to thank you for the work you've done to try to simplify and smooth that over however the flip side that corners if a pick up carvan of their big on your national company not saying that locals and other nationals can do it but if you can't get a hold of that title one where the other you probably don't need to be selling that car and i'm a little concerned that this sort of floating title situation could be contributing to some of this discrepancy between the revenue and again that's not the buyers fault it's a systemic problem and buyer comes in a good faith in basic car. But you know and and again sixty days is more reasonable than thirty to get those things worked out but but I think you know we we're gonna have to keep a good own. How quickly this is is being i'm sorry chuck please yet yet yes i've just gonna would I was just going to say is your point about transferring legitimate ownership of the vehicle via the title. The fact that we have this expedited way of paying your sales tax you're absolutely right it does nothing to change to make better or harder makes it just the same as everywhere else to transfer the title it's a method of separating these two animals so somebody can come and pay their sales tax and register but you're right it does not improve the title transfer process in all it just makes it easier to get your sales tax paid get your car registered and get a license plate on it but you're right it does not at all smooth out the title transfer process and have one quick question before we go to the queue. If you. Make a good faith ever and you're buying this vehicle and you can't get that title. In time and what say in time what thirty sixty thirtieth whatever it is what's the process if basically that they are abdominated cases it's at least i've heard of them from other people. That we just can't get this title and you mentioned maybe one lane holder won't release up then or for whatever reason does that individual is their money just tied up you know like they can't really yes they've gone in and made the good faith effort but you know they legally don't own the car till they get that is there a process to be able to unwind that and go back and and get somebody clear so a minute transfer the sovereign appall but because I want to make sure I don't get in a legal areas that I don't know much about but they're two separate animals number one has to do with registration of a vehicle driving a vehicle legally having sales taxes that can all happen irrespective of the title process if an individual wants to resell that vehicle or transfer ownership of that vehicle now we're in to the complications of the title but as long as the individual is just interested in driving out an arkansas road they register they pay their sales taxes then if it takes one month two month three month four month that the time is not going to fact that they'll be able to legitimately drive the car in our concert until that title snag gets rubbed out if you will it's only when they go to transfer the ownership and paul please jump in and correct me if I got that wrong. I'll certainly add to that there's the opportunity for there's gonna be circircumstances as charlie explained that there's difficulty getting that title so that it can be titled in arkansas under the new the new purchaser and record the new lane on the title about it if in case those in those transactions where everybody's operating in good faith but there is just not that pathway to getting a title to that vehicle that the buyer in the date the seller of the vehicle might get together and. Decided to resend the sale and then go back to square one before they entered into the transaction there there is also this is more commonly in the older vehicles where locating a title that's twenty thirty forty years old that the the buyer can go through what's known as the bonded title process were they post or get a bond holder post a bond for the vehicle and essentially they have a period of time that if that time elapses then they can defake in at that point issued them a title for a vehicle but I certainly understand the main issue could is that you go to a a dealer or new or used and there's just a difficulty getting the title because maybe that vehicle was wholesale in an entirely different state and it's just taking a long period of time for the dealer here in arkansas to get the action will title to the vehicle when all things fail and the person has a vehicle. That they can't get the title forward that they have purchased and they've been driving then they might you know seek the advice of of an attorney or talk to their better business bureau to see if there's any any any assistance there but we we recognize it overwhelmingly these transactions these are these are um it's our businesses that are trying to do everything that they can to get the title for the vehicle but we do recognize it at some point there are some transactions that just getting a title that they thought that they had or that they had it some point and it was misdirected to possibly to another customer lost in lost in transit being delivered from party to party be that we'll have the ability that they can either you know cancel the sale or go through the bond entitled process if they they prefer there is a cost to that but certainly we understand there's some circumstance there's vehicles on the road that people just can't get a new title for because they the original title has been lost or destroyed and so we we provide the bin entitled processes as a solution there. Thank you we'll start with general berry. Thank mister and uh so i'm sorry but I have no sympathy for people that don't pay the sales tax on their vehicles you know we will use me thirty days we give on sixty days now we'd give them ninety days they probably still wouldn't pay it and and I would venture to say that majority of the people out there that haven't paid their sales tax or been until the revenue office are probably not going to until they're held accountable for it and I believe in accountability so what point I can law enforcement impound the vehicle and they pull them over you know then give me a citation or whether it's a sorry but but the state has a lean on your vehicle and we're going to unpound can we do that. So III believe that state polices here and they might be able to speak to that per specific point we certainly recognize their there's a lot of lawful requirement arkansas to register your vehicle and have registration current and a plate on your car but I would be I will defer to the state police we we don't we when we'd file the lean with the courthouse. If the person hasn't paid their sales tax that lean does in fact apply to that person's real and personal property located within the counting the big issue is with your example reps barriers that that person likely financed that vehicle and the whoever provided the purchase money the the bank where the credit union the broad the for purchase money is going to be first in line for purposes of their their security interest in the vehicle but i'm i'd be happy to defer to state place on how the day the enforced is particular requirement law to register into a if I may miss chairman charlie director collins. It made the common a few minutes ago about being legally on the highway so. If their tags are expired to temporary taxes by they're not legally on the highway so the breaking the law so we have ways to hold people accountable for following the law and part of that is impounding them the vehicle are done in jail whatever you got to do so anyway but I appreciate the your answer thank you thank you mister thank you. Oh coach how come has a question for I go back to the worst now read my question representative period takes me and ask me to ask you a question about the may be collecting a sales tax attempt purchase. If that wouldn't get down on the tibbery tags to be an abuse to. He say in the episodes of people run a six to nine months with that with temporary tag. My mub markets over that would be I know a lot of people are low income and arkansas and fixed income and paying a down payment on vehicle and pay sales at same time might be a big issue the sixty days allowed from time to do that so but if I understand around fate if they run six months over on temporary tag their penalized for that don't they have payability nothing that that's correct mr chair they have a penalty and interest that applies to the nine payment the sales tax they also have a penalty that applies to the failure to register the vehicle in the timely fashion. Okay which would you have to represent question about collection in the field time of sale would be such a cartoon they are I want to take that one first and then park and add to it. Sir we are here to implement the laws passed by the legislature and we will dutifully into the best of our ability implement the laws as you pass them so today at sixty days and and we are you know happy to to do what you've asked us to do if you were to change it to another amount of days at that it's really not in my arena to you have an opinion about we will do our best to implement what the legislature directs thank you for passing the book answering his question and dominate my friend mr college for the regard award as a proporter okay out thank you mister chairman of representative time we received. Thank you mischair this presentation address of the dealers and requirements on the attempt tags but it doesn't address or maybe I missed it doesn't address private party transactions and my knowledge of bills sell you to get pulled or we have a temporary tag a bill sale in a current insurance card should provide enough proof that you own the vehicle and that you are driving it with that bill cell has that is dated in signed would that still be correct or are we going to address private party practices as well. A representative of your you're correct and happy to have the state police speak to the question as well but certainly i've i've bought vehicles from private parties where I didn't involve a dealer I had the bill of sale in the glove box and tell the time that it came in and registered the vehicle along my proof of insurance that's current but the same timelines do apply you have sixty days from the date of purchase to get all of your. Requirements met the registration insurance as well as you are assessment at the county office so you you are given that in that period of time the sixty days window to get things done but that that would be the proof that I would put into my glove box if I bought a vehicle from a third party and just was had not yet had the ability to come in in register I would be clear for that that sixty day period I would assume follow it next year you're here so would there be any potential where we could have a private party required to go down to the revenue office and apply for a temporary tag or we just going to just kind of. Slow this to the side and deal with the dealers issue only right now. My understanding currently representative that the temporary tag process involves transactions where either are used or new vehicle dealer but we would not issue a temporary tag for purposes of private party transactions but certainly the general assembly could could provide in in legislation for that requirement. Alright thank you. Thank you representative our representative hockey recognize. Name is chairman which you'd mentioned penalties just meant to go if somebody doesn't go in and get their tags after the sixty day period what are the penalties for somebody to I was there a fine is what's that number look like for every day or month or week that they're late. Represent if there's there's gonna be two penalties that apply. Their failure to register penalty and there's also going to be the non payment of the sales tax penalty they are two different penalties there's also the interest that's going to accrue at ten percent pa until the tax is paid i'll be happy to follow up with you and and provide you those exact amounts of how much that we assess for the registration penalty as well as the the failure to pay the tax penalty I believe that the failure to pay tax penalty is is five percent of the tax due and per month and then it tops out of a certain amount but i'll be happy to double check in and get that exact information for you then less either miss. The light penalty on sales text when they register its ten percent for the registration fee it's three dollars for every ten days up to the amount of the registration fee great okay thank you thank you very much. Representative tosh you recognize in question thank you mister. Appreciate those car means and i've just got a quick question although you said the day of the day was stands for me at the will of a legislative body in the laws that we passed and said I understand that now appreciate it what I want to know and i'm going back from something that was said earlier quite a bit but i've just now getting to the port people ask a question is on their party purchase a mount in the sales tag assessed to that purchase amount I guess what i'm curious about was it will all the legislative body to attack people for an extended warranty or is that something that the day of a decided to do or is that something the legislative body actually put into lol. I think representative talk tosh so in terms of the the the gross receipts that that of what is taxable in a transaction that is specified by the general assembly what what is included in the grocery seats so all all that is that is purchased with in a vehicle transaction and. Including the extended warranty is going to be a part of that gross receipts. Follow up a relationship. So if I purchased a vehicle a use vehicle and I decided I wanted to purchase extended warty at on the date that I purchased to be vehicle then you would assess me syos tax on what I paid for that extended about I think your answer was years but usually if you buy use be vehicle you all you have black and ninety day or six months whatever that dealership decides to give you that they they give you that warranty so if I choose not to bad that extended on the date of purchase and i'll wait that nanny days and then I go back to worry about our purchase to be here before my back reward or whatever they gave me runs out and outside I will purchase that extended war and must you are going to be accessed to sales tax but even though it was after the date of the sale of the behaviour you follow what i'm the question i'm asking just to make sure I understand so we have a situation where you bought the vehicle you opted not to get the warranty at the time that you extended warranty at the time that you bought the vehicle but then you went back and then separately purchased an extended warranty through the dealer I believe that the dealer would. Collect the sales tax on that individual transaction from you at the dealership. But all the meat I would be happy to go back just to verify that to get make sure i'm giving you the exact exactly correct information and and representative tash here your car scratching scam here which I have lived in knowledgeable i'm sure no one in this room has gotten any phone calls on their cell phone ask you better extended warranty on your car so that those of you that nips and child never experience that let me just say a would ask to follow up on your question representative dash. Yeah. Is that transactions let's say the guy that called me at three o'clock in the morning warning we extend my my warranty on my car is that transaction taxable assume these are national companies or whatever whether they're for appropriately paying arkansas sales tax on that or not is that under the current law forget the ones that the representative tosh referred to where you went back to your dealer after you first not purchased there but is that a michael at third party extended warranty is it taxable under current law chairman i'm going to go back and just make sure i'm I want to make sure I give the committee the exactly correct information if it's okay i'd like to follow up after this meeting and provide that answer happening right everyone would agree to that representative tosh is that okay if we would get that down because I think I suspect I don't know but I suspect there might be a significant amount of money here that either not being collected or not we're not authorized we do need that answer so certainly let us know you know when you can you have time yes that all you had on that representative okay thank you representative right. You should thank you mister chairman paup worked with it for twenty six years. This is not a problem they're started five six years ago this is something that's occurred from day one and I think a new make and check yourself for. If you assess that very here between january and my thirty first that's along. Okay anything after they are actually far shooting and what we call listing. In that listing will go on until december the thirty first I just wonder if there are some loopholes there's covered in there you know because i've checked other states around us mississippi tennessee. They pay there on the frontian and the park that I pay for the assessment in the collection is taken is actually done during that period. That may be the only way you can cur this problem. You know what we call if you I mean you know you you're talking about a temporary assessment you're talking about the collection on something that don't even include this vehicle. Okay and and you can just get stretched out over a period of like you said senator mark over a period of about two years that they really don't pay any tax on the county level for about two years so I mean there may be something we can do it maybe from january to december the thirty first that we actually would instead of listing that out maybe we just actually charge the the county tax on the I mean it's something to think about. Yet you sir thank you and thank you representative right it's always great to have a former assessor in the legislature that can tell us from that point of view appreciate you I think we've got a lot more things we need to maybe study more detailer served a car. Thank you I think there's probably at least a couple of problems compounded into one here maybe more but can you pay your sales tax without restaurant a vehicle. Yes sir you can certainly come in and pay your sales tax on the vehicle prior to that sixty day period occurring that you're going to come in in register and that law actually provides for it it states that honor before the time of registration pay yourself text without restarting the vehicle but that doesn't help you as far as being legal on the road most most people are going to do the transaction all at the same time but certainly if the person wanted to pay the sales tax. Are independently and before if they register that is enough not likely to happen good to know what you can do is without registering a cany restaurant vehicle without a total. Yes sir yes but as commissioner collins indicated that we will with with the appropriate bill of sale another documentation wheel allow individuals to get their registration and pay their sales tax while the title process is working as a commission he wanted to talk about the issue in yeah this is important because the straight center certainly didn't know that as I went for almost a year old with the trailer last year or two years ago that I couldn't get a total for yes sir you can you can pay to register you pay the sales tax present the documentation is paul said and you get your vehicle registered and in you initiated the title process now again this is all assuming things are in good face the documents have been exchanged we have a group we call them a title examiners there are analyzing these documents sometimes they're actually making the phone calls to the banks because when you purchase a house for example you'll purchase something called title insurance and that will protect it in case there are multiple claims on the house the insurance will will protect them well you know the fa the state is the title insurance in effect for a car so we want to make sure that before we've cleared a title that all the other legitimate claims to that title are in fact released so that the true owner of the vehicle has it and they're not competing claims sometimes their process can take a period of time sometimes it can be complicated so recognizing that it can be variable but as long as we're operating a good faith then that process can play out now there are some times when we discover a problem for example somebody's trying to commit some kind of a fraud and then obviously in those instances you know then the title is not going to be issued in that name and that person's not the owner of the vehicle and you know that leads to you know a negative outcome but ninety nine percent of the time people are trying to do the right thing doing in good faith and and and you can register the vehicle and then the title will. Will be cleared when I can be clear okay do you i'm glad to know that do you think that most of our citizens know that. That I mean cause. Your normally. We register with they sell sex after all at one time so whether they so if somebody said to me if you like quiz people in the street would they be able to answer that I would say well probably not but what we experiences when people purchase his vehicle the vast majority and understand we're talking about people with expired temp tax today but the vast majority of people come in with their documents they don't have their title completed when it was thirty days and and perhaps not even when it's sixty and they pay the sales tax you know every day the week and get their car registered so that process is operating well enough so I guess the way it answer your question is when people are in the process of purchasing a vehicle they'll discover that that's the case. Okay good to know i'm in that group that did not you know I was aggravated for months and i. That in my mind I couldn't get tax from my trailer because I couldn't get a total. For the trailer and nobody corrected me because I spoke those words any times in the way that all yeah you can do that is a is a trailer the same as a vehicle in terms of getting the okay yes or so so I apologize it that none of our people said you know some time not upset it to you i've just said it out in numerous places you know that I couldn't get tags because we can work when where i'm headed is sometimes our people may not understand you know the objective of the person in the earned of the phone is to get a get get registered but they may be just assuming you're intending to sell the trailer and if you intended to sell the trailer they they wouldn't be able to help you until you got the title because it is required to sell the trailer but but not to get a registration sometimes you know as we get people more trained but they can ask some questions and help people get to a solution that may be we didn't know together exist itself but thank you for that input the second part of it and as you brought out the that your job is to inact the law however how will the legislature put it in law. The and I understand the complications there could be for dealers. But I also understand that. And that most people buy with payments. And especially the lower income you go the more that that is true. Because people. Don't have the money set aside and don't budget in such a way they can make a payment but take and that's why they unsure what they ask if they could make payments so in some ways of as a former legislator are we not maybe doing some of this backwards. That are that people who just they weren't expected to get the money together the by the vehicle but yet we expect them to get the money together and be responsible enough to pay the sales tax all at one time. Represent absolutely a clark we certainly understand this is what we see quite regularly with with the individuals that have failed to to register their vehicle is it's a it's an economic issue and so what you decide as you you see the problem with the got your job to said policy but but what you see the problem we see the problem and we also see that there it's not just limited to those that are having economic challenges they're also just individuals that may be have the resources that fail to comply with the law but overwhelmingly it in our experience is those week they just have an account and for their budget or they may be they did account for in the budget to pay the sales tax when they registered but an emergency occurred a job lost occurred and unexpected expense occurred in illness occurred and now that that's the they've got through that they don't have the money anymore so we we certainly see is that that being a a challenge is that the the purchasers um failure they're of their plan initially to get this thing done did not go as planned so we certainly see that as a it's a big problem if you send it to the other component to this that I would air it is II think we've actually got more flexibility when it comes to things like payment plans and garnishment of wages and things that this nature when we get into the collection process that the other thing about that is is it's it's a more clear transition from if person exynzee doesn't have to pay their sales taxes wide as personal abnc have to pay his or hers but but when we go through the to a collection process where we've sent out an assessment may be a person's protested it where the final assessment you know we kind of get to that point where they say okay now i've just got to find a way to pay and we're in collection now at that point there's more flexibility for these kinds of things so I know that doesn't help everybody and people don't want to be in that scenario but that's one way that I think it's addressed to some degree bulk of it I think what both the interest will escape some of the most valuable things that. Today and agree with the general I think most of us do that I don't have any for people does not pay but I know people that are barely will all but they don't budge it very well and so that's something that we should certainly look at thank you thank you so let me do a quick follow up the commissioner cars in the situation that send her clark described if he had gone in with a bill of sale on that time on that trailer. He would have been able to go out with a trailer tag to put on his is trailer in taking that around center money i'm always senator i'm always has in its talk about any specific case because of the details of the specific case of for example somebody else say to me i've got a vehicle and I want to title but what they haven't told me is the vehicle was in a flood it was totally flooded in taxes the insurance company told the vehicle out there for its not eligible for a traditional title because it was flooded and taxes and they have to go through this bind a total process which is something is very different from a traditional tale and and so without knowing every single detailed senator clarks specific case i'll give you a pass on their trolley but you're from trying to get it it lets assume everything's in order in the scenario that someone in a yes similar senator clark described then yes sir yes it is long as he was in process for a title he would be able to see a handwritten title by the previous owner or a henry and bill or sale as opposed to some legal looking document ma'am i'm just trying to cut through the red take it yesterday proper paper work that exists and then that would go to our title examiners they would examine it to ensure it's legitimate that there are additional leans or other ownership claims on the trailer in question i'm not talking about the title i'm talking about the tip for him to be able to get a tag for that that trailer our person in similarly situated there has a bill sale he just the other person the seller either didn't have the tile or can't find it or whatever reason it's not yet available that a buyer could get registration at the day so the answer is yes sir however we need to get the title eventually we not get the title eventually in certain and it's yesterday they could do that first thank you. Commercial and representative rate. Thank you mister chairman my question is not about temporary tags but about renewing of tags. I know with with an anti cartag you don't have to have the renewal process once you have the tag you have the tag I had a constituent approach me and asked why that same arrangement doesn't extend to disabled better and tags. It was a red be happy to take a look at that issue i'm i'm sorry just don't have that information and currently front of me unless it just seems it seems like with the antique car tag I guess the reason that it doesn't have to be renewed is because once it's an antique it's an anti it's gonna remain that way they're the constituent to brought this to my tension said that the logic is largely the same once you've been designated as a disabled better in that status isn't going to change so why did why do they need to go through the process of renewal each time so yes sir in an end the difference is as long as that cars in the same ownership and then you're right it's always an anti but but in the instance of people and who's got access to those tags you not sadly people could pass away or move or other things and so by being able to ensure that we've got the authorized people associated with the authorized vehicle I think those tags the renew either a very low rate or no rate I can't remember exactly but but you're right there is a renewal process associated with that and that insurers that the person that is renewing is is is still here fortunately and that we don't have issues with that would would you view it would it be problematic to put them on a similar arrangement for that reason that you're describing yes sir if we if we were not able to confirm that a vehicle tag and a person you know were contemporarily together you know in a given year you know would it be a you know I got a a tragedy of dramatic change probably not but over time then that could build into a disconnect between what's actually out there on the roads and who has those things in so that and it is a little bit of an inconvenience compared to not keeping track of it but I think overall hopefully it's. It's something that they can understand make sense okay thank you for addressing that appreciate thank you any other questions don't have any more in the. A. Gentleman in lady thank you for it very informative discussion we would like to hear those follow up responses because I think I did not when we call this hearing anticipate. The numbers that you put in your slide presentation it's more than I expected I knew we had to be having some fall through the cracks but it may even won't even little bit more research on that because obviously every dollar that we. Property tax daughter we failed to collect is something that the rest of taxpayers are subsidizing for us to be able to find state government but but I appreciate the hard work you have done and in preparing for the or the committee and we will let a white additional information mister commissioner you have anything else I just wanted to say thank you very much for having us we appreciate it thank you all for coming next we have the discussion of driving a left lanes of highways at me are. At chief holmes from the how a police and captain land from the state police now let me ask you both to come up here in this. You yell heard the previous there was a presentation I guess just captain for state police but it might be something highway would respond to as well but I just want to. A ask that question first before we get into the issue on the adam so if you would both introduce yourself for the record and end uh cheap on you and go first to them all. A good good afternoon mr chairman i'm jeff homes on the chief of the arkansas highway police afternoon captain bradley of the archaeologies okay welcome both serve in case I don't want to forget captain be sure so I had america's mister dad for like. Let me start with michelle thought at both of you the question was brought up related to impoundment of someone who has abused the expired tags or the expired temporary tax situation that we were discussing could either are both of you address where we are policy wires today in then we'll look at possibilities of maybe. Changing that policy through statute but that where are we today your box already own capital right here so every agency has different policies but I would state police we typically what in impound of vehicle just for expired tags her fair to read sure the vehicle now if it was a criminal rest or they were driving on suspicious license under that effect in typically we we would impound the vehicle so if that were too we that the general said we decided that needed to be changed we would probably need to do that by statute with some outline for example that there's been a significant tax lane file by the fine or oh on that particular vehicle and you know it's I mean if you're. If you're driving around and vehicle debts you stall for example you guys could be impounded but in this case you'd affect that you're stealing from the tax players but we'd need to enact that through future legislation is what I mean yes sir that's correct chief after you have any follow up on there at all. No sir I would just add the encourage state law you can impound a big for now insurance. And then and and the commercial side of it we can uh summons trucks to revenue office to get their license and we can write and have impounded until they get tags but that's on the commercial so. Ok a hood sixty one oh. Sarah love you recognize thank you miss chair and I guess little get clarification at the point of the conversation before I ask and so this is the question to the chair. Mr cheer is it my understanding that you were asking if we could in pound cars. Or the people they have not paid their sales tax is that yesterday and sooner I don't know if you were here but one of our house members was I believe it was a representative tash was at her right did you ask that question about that it was general okay impounding he was asking that and II said we would ask the state police when they came to the table on this next item so that's how the question got into the conversation it was from general various questions and so rather than. And I get our recognizing if he wants to bring that back up at this point but that's where it was and I simply waited until we completed with the df and I people before represented compared to i'm just trying to get clarification on i'm trying to follow the conversation yes that will be in. Now now that I guess is the question does I guess to both so you are do stop. Persons with expired. Typical text that is that that correct that is correct d do you know how many do you have an ideal of how many people you all start. At its daily high I don't have those numbers in in front of me but it's it's quite a few. In so if we were to begin to in pound the cars of people there have. II guess i'm trying to understand the process if we were to impound the cars of everybody that you are stop. I guess I don't I just need a number because where would we put this on a chance when when we put these cars if if you're saying we stop so many. It's like someone that we stopper you know maybe three or four weeks expired and then summer several minutes so there there's a there's a variety of expiration dates okay I mean I do understand the problem but i'm just trying to. I guess i'm trying to think through actually physically how would we do that if we had a legislature decided to do that within this for me I mean just in your assessment with that would that create a problem for state police. I don't know they would create a problem we use a tone recovery rotation so we use a multiple record companies and when we stop a car if it needs to be impounded then we call a wrecker than the next one on the list gets the next one it's just a cost of rotation so they all want me going to one place that's kind of what you're asking to limit limit clarify that during that discussion and in in general where is in the queue and he can speak for himself on this but my understanding is the original had to do with when definitely it actually issued lane a tax lane because of unpaid sales tax not just you've got an expired paper tag okay and I agree I just I was just trying to follow the conversation so this last were clarification I think it and I will I will recognize general very next and let him clarify what is question was and I think it'll start to make better says okay are thank you thank you so. Jeremy reckington thank miss german and you're exactly right it was you know a deep and a they're going to fare it out all the issues if there's a particular reason why the person hasn't paid their taxes but if they're just arbitrarily decided to break the law and not pay the taxes you know my mind is one of the it if you're caught shop lifting you got be held accountable and it's the same thing if you are debt to the state of arkansas and you're illegally driving your car on the on the highway in your just chose not to pay your taxes then you should be held accountable for so in in your right we'd it would be good the records association with love if we you know it be good for a generic revenue in the state for the records association but I think you know there's checks and balances to determine who need needs to be their car needs to be impounded better there comes a point where you have to start holding people accountable and and they've got to pay their taxes so thank you miss chairman okay thank you general and i'll try to keep her buddy in in the right order representative of j richardson you are number thirty three thank you mister chair over here in the corner my question is pretty simple those expired paper tags is that I don't know the terminology is that probable calls for an officer to pull somebody over to tag as expired can that be the main reason they're pulling them over okay that's all I was curious thank you. Send a car you're recognized thank you appreciate a centre low chamber in on this I think the general wrong that the tow truck sociation may not love us because I wouldn't pass anything like this without tow truck. Regulation are because most poor people when they if their car breaks down on the side of the road and they have a tone they never get that car back up because the what it cost the number days it's going to be there and it goes up every day. The. The interview is were willing to regulate that or you'll aware of any regulations on total pricing. Oh when we when we have on. Keep a car. I'm i'm sorry i'm not sure I understand you'll aware of any regulations that the state has a how much but someone can be charged one when we do have a car code now so we don't set prices thank you. Ah. So love you had another question you're recognized. Thank you this served as me ubs center but I had mine let up but I will say that I think senator clark missed the point of mike are comment my tongue and cheap comment about generating revenue for the to towing association that was not not what I was saying and also thanks for let me clear that up. Now are you. Your back outside may clear up I called it completely. Okay. So love did you need to come back. I don't want to get into that okay thank you all right germany will now move to the actual item e which we are supposed to be talking about and I will admirish all of members of the committee to please be very careful using sarcasm and figures speech because they might be misinterpreted by those who are or watching or people in the audience while understand the seventies of your humor let's make sure that fully communicative with everyone involved the the discussion of driving in the left lanes of highways it's a come up a bit of a problem that to the point where we have passed glow and arkansas basically says you can't camp in the left lane and impede traffic on four I highways. Ah i'm going to ask if the cochair would like to say anything about that before I recognize senator clark who is. Certainly has brought even more of this to my attitude well thank you what we like is some clearly on the. Draving left and I now mean that I realize that the the low now if someone fear the left hand lane someone pulls up behind your sports put over regards one speed you're going about gum and calling that correctly I know you're not supposed to stay in the left hand lane and in the big issue is not people to drown in the left and lane when there's open traffic the problem is a lot of people are cabin in that left hand lane slow to pay us and that's their balance because they can't pass the right of the left and sometimes are not get now left hand lane and people are bottle of the hannah passion on the right so how how what what are you would withdraw boundaries that do do you do you allow me just to stay in left am lane of traffic is light where do we stop on there to we are if they're if they're camping in that left hand may stay in there do you do anything to the do said they won their dish holding up traffic when they're slow to pass how kind of give us a young character clearly when how we're enforced and there or what we're doing in regard to that left hand lane. I make I see a clear pnatal okay. Yes sir so camping in the left lane is is a problem that we're all aware of we do enforce it as well as i'm sure the state place unfortunate the problem that we face is they typically don't. Camp in the left lane or impede traffic in the left lane when police cars and and over the past year we've we've done probably as a highway place twenty eight. Or more special enforcements focusing on left lane drivers because it it it is a serious problem that I get a number numerous complaints about we written over three hundred probably tickets and warnings for over the last year but it is a problem but but like I said it's it's an issue that typically doesn't happen when when a law enforcement might police vehicles are around so that's the challenge that we're faced with okay chief. This is an account this is not legal this is just the interpret up a motorist in observing things but. After your more threatened safety wise when. People going seventy seventy five miles an hour all bunched up not quite bumpered above but pretty close are because of these people that that camper the left then I do that to excuse it but people who are obviously clearly speeding correct in observing that this is at least an equivalent danger if not in some cases potential even a greater danger because you add road rage and either such things to the equation. Yes sir I would say it's it is a you know it's a comparative danger because traffic does take typically slow way down or could even come to a stop on the interstate system that's why we do focus on it and like I said it's just AAA challenge we face is with mark police vehicles. They typically don't stay in the left lane we do it allows long profile vehicles oh the partner transportation trucks and put off theirs in those so we do various things to try to try to address the situation but is still a challenge so you're saying if I see in our dot truck I need to slow down just as if it were or a state trooper jet correct will we do try all kinds of different damage to force you heard it here first though okay thank you chief of. Eight representative rate you've moved now me. Thank you mister chairman yard changed seats to see my friend senator brian every year. To my my question is you you touched on something that makes a lot of sense to me that. Typically when people are engaging in this behavior they're not doing it in the presence of an officer how many do we know how many and fractions have been issued since this law was changed. I can take from stapley side I ran the numbers for the past year we wrote four hundred and eleven satanians wrote three thousand six hundred ten morings for all over four thousand traffic stops just for a left line driving okay I know sometimes the you know the right hand lane so it will often be worn down quicker than the left will and there's stretches of highway or interstate where it's almost like a wash board do you. Is there any II can't remember I don't have the statute in front of me and I can't remember is there any sort of exemption for road conditions or anything like that. Co chair holcome says that it was something in the bill about that. Mister please there is in the bill if there is construction or if it's a bad road their exemption that from that right hand main for for that for that area I remember it being in the bill so I am kept can you speak on it yesterday it says when all other lanes for traveling in same direction or in disrepair or in other was and robert unsafe condition. Okay thank you. Thank you a good question represent. Oh so bright you have question I do thank you mister chair what is when a driver is going seventy in the right lane I spent about two hundred miles coming down here to literate on interstate forty nine and forty if a driver in the right lane is going seventy to seventy five and somebody's overtaking them going one mile an hour faster it's gonna take several miles for them to overcome that. I had a head of the howard patrol where they police. Identify what is an impeding traffic citation. I think it would just be an if they're bottom I can traffic at the honda in in traffic king proceed forward I think then that's going to become a beating track. So so follow up on that if if that vehicle. Produces a speed greater than the speed limit. To overtake that is that typically where they pull them a driver over for for that if they're trying to no longer impede that traffic. I think that would depend on the speed and they get in the officer's discretion. For me sitting here to talk was hard for me to say yes or no when i'm not the one act after winnocent okay alright thank you thank you so. I had a quick follow up on this. I don't know if the general I say the general public enough membership is a general public are aware of this law and have you posted science it let's say left line for passing online and I appreciate that a is this a car thing that would maybe be a candidate for some psa's where we would be educating our motorists that and it they know about speeding they know about supposed to do that's pretty well educated from when the first day you got behind the wheel but uh as I mentioned earlier there is a safety aspect of this it's not just the annoyance of it and if it's something that I know you are both their bosses that that look at your case chief some are over sitting in the back of the room but be there as it may they there could be psased that would help educate while television radio billboards I drive arkansas whatever that would inform motorists that hey look this is a safety yes back don't budge up traffic don't hang a hang out in the left line and cause these case of problems is that something it could be the. Yes sir I kink speak specifically to this but I know in the past we have done several psa is on different laws throughout the year i'd have to go back and look and see this was one of them but I know we do we have done several of the last few years okay thank you that will just notice that captain chief of that are. There is several signs on the road tell em to left landline is for passing only well it does not mean it's there I see it playing his day and people still get all so you know it's it's just an issue so thank well I wasn't saying we need to get rid of those mysterious I would get saying we need to all met that with some bsa's and let people know okay thank you. A fifty four hours sin o'clock you're recognized. Thank you. The I have a lot of questions so if you need to break in because of somebody else. That has questions the you know I became aware that there was research. That showed that impeating traffic in the left lying was more dangerous than speeding from the arkansas state police facebook page. Seeing it more than one time I would see it in a wall. And is that true that impeding traffic in the lifeline is more dangerous and speeding as far as causing accidents. I don't have a state sent in front of me it'd be hard for me to say but it could be but yeah when you put it on your page of it when II don't remember that being on the page but as consumer assume and i'm telling the truth that it was on your page but but it's interesting that that were no longer aware of those stats in the reason that it's dangerous that you all explained very well you heard some pictures and is because impeding traffic calls as line changes and they said that lane changes was checked was the biggest cause of traffic accidents not speeding but i'd again I didn't research it anywhere else other than than that but it certainly seemed to make a lot of sense I know changing lanes i'm very careful expansion of three lane you know you got to look over there and make sure there's not somebody else and when you got traffic congested and people are trying to get through you don't know what direction people are coming from so it made a lot of sense. The. You gave us her number II was glad you did on how many ticketed warnings and warnings are fine have been issued it's up a great deal from a few years ago because I listed with the state place few years ago and they didn't even know there was a law and then came back and there had been about a thousand written about this time of the year just under a thousand so you were up a great deal how many speeding tickets have you. And warnings have been written in the same period. I have find her out I have that information certain farm. To I would like to hear that information i'm an assume it's a great deal more. Sure I can get that to you okay but would I be right that it's a great deal more I would assume you sir but if it if we're right that was put out on the state police facebook page was that impeding traffic causes more accidents and speeding. It would seem that we would before we pass his newest law because let me go back. When we hold because there were numerous bills presented and we were told they didn't we didn't need those bills that we are a headlaws. Oh and. Oh so. And we did already have loss. And in the other thing that I was told personally well which has been mentioned here is. You need on more course. It appears to me now that we have lots of one more course yes. So so we can actually get in my shoes and be that back their next linked dervoits. What's happening because I you're right I believe when law enforcements there people do move over but I know I had a personal experience two and a half years ago when my they call me as in judiciary committee of and my dad was was dying. And a I had my flasher zone and I was. Regard and I couldn't get people move out the lifeline with my flash or though it we just was amazing people yeah I know people that will you know I have as much rough to the left lane as anybody does I have people you know one driving the speed limit there's people that just never drive anywhere but the left line and it doesn't matter how many people pass them on the rock which is not the most safe place to pass them. But. I would like you know we don't have we have not asked for uh people and in that muffle of because I think we need part this conversation needs to be how do we set the speed limits start with. And you know I heard testimony. Several years ago and I was looking at montana and what I heard in test money because I thought I questioned what I heard but they showed eighty five eighty fifth percent that they measure the speed. Oh of what's happened actually happening on the huawei. And they take the eighty fifth percent all that's where they set the speed limit that that's the. Oh. It still is a story for foresetting a rational limit and it's considered to be the maximum say speed for that location. I'd really love to hear that rationale but. Do you when you all are patrolling speeding and the speed limit seventy. Do you set the right art seventy one. Generally as your general rule. We don't set a radar it it's seventy one but do you write right around the catch what every speaker going to spoke but as a policy that you poke people over for going one over tipping I know but that that can be an officer discretion you know you again you've got also discretion but you've also got policy. What general policy. Are our policy doesn't set a number on the speed nobody's ever told. It worked even for a period of time were. What where is it for we're looking for people going this much faster not. Interesting. Are cost you know just on seventy you know the the general population a highway certainly between hot springs and I thirty general general consensus as you can drop seventy speed limit sixty you can drive something you won't get pulled over and you can meet multiple satellites I find it that's true I can tell you about what speed you do get pulled over so. If we don't sit if we don't want people over it's only one if that were the case is it because we don't think so anyone don't say. I might be partially I think everybody speed our could be off one or two so i'm not going i'm not going to enforce the law when it's that close. Right in its your duty to inform force law but what if it's three over. The do we then don't think it's unsafe if speed gills. Me personally I would not make a traffic stop with three miles higher over. So we don't think that three miles an hour over his own safe I mean it could be but there's several out there they're going way more than three over. Yes well unless come back to that because. Montana. Before maybe the reason i'm an outlaw. Maybe I was just born in atlanta but maybe part of the reason is that we set a national speed limit law just as I turn sixteen and I just hated that with a passion fifty five miles an hour. Montana had no speed limit before that. Eleven years later congress removed that law. And montana because it never passed speedline low had no speed limit law so there they're fatality rate on the how on their interstates scale rocketed right. No went down. It went down and. In two thousand they're in the nineties or rights discontinued to draw and in two thousand because of the wisdom of the federal government they were all probably to get some highway money they implemented a speed limit law again. And again you can look these facts up. This. There. Their traffic fatalities own their interstates doubled the next year. With a speed limit versus not having a speed limit. So I want then i'm not. I'm not here to say that we shouldn't have a speed limit but I am talking about because the whole ideas keep people say right. We want to I mean that's part of what it is because we just want to keep people safe with putting an armored cars until they can go between miles and out so that's part of them of it but of the industrialized nations the you'll have any idea which nation has the safest interstate highways as far as traffic was the. Germany. Our are traffic brutalities per million miles is seventy percent higher than germany. And everybody knows about the automatic. Seventy percent out of one has no speedline because some people come out while they have speed limits not seventy percent out of one has no speed limit. And you can actually go two hundred fifty miles an hour now the idea that people will just go and you speak the research also shows in germany montana and elsewhere eighty eighty five is where most people are going to drive it just left it it's a fastest original there are the exceptions but you drive two hundred fifty miles an hour but yet they have lower. Batalties per miles driven. Then what we have here but one thing that you don't do and automatic. Is in peak traffic or pass on the right. Ugh you know you you want to get pulled over at although the citizens pre will take care of it on their own there is a law against bully and drivers in the left lane by flashing your lights and hoping your horn but I can tell you in practice don't if you can't pass. And make it around by the time the car go on a hundred or go on two fifty reated you stay where you are. So i'm gonna philosophically. Is speed really the problem. Speed is part of a problem yes speed is part of the problem you can always say it you know if we were in horse and buggy days we'd have less people and i'll if I came from horse and buggy days and and got out in the construction around bitten I would probably be horrified you know it's can be pretty scary now to see as all going to spouse and meet each other and but so the speed is part of the problem but if studies do show that impeding traffic. Is a bigger problem. The. And and again the legislature because the interesting thing another interesting for me was that andrew collins representative I didn't mean to show this respect represent of college and center letting. Not in the majority of this. In this legislature both democrats. Passed this law. With the majority of this voting for it that lifetimes with it well the you this is central clark this is representative of college but they forget that this body represents the people. And that. The. It in it's an annoyance but it's not just an annoyance it's unsafe. But this really came up and again and I don't want to dwell on this because we we dealt with it I don't embarrass anybody. But. You know i'm coming to meetings over here and won the boards backups that i've been in and people in if I could have taken video safely I might help because because people just change in lanes trying to find a way to get through and I get up to the front supplies. But what I didn't tell everybody. Is once I got around I went further. And there's another one. Completely different. The group. Doing the same thing and I actually asked you know is this policy if so somebody statewide come out for for december where were enforcing traffic in and so we got a law enforcement officers driving in the lifeline and so if law enforcement officers don't know. Or ignorantly think like some other citizens that they're actually doing a good thing. How are our citizens going. But I can take so that you know maybe people won't pay attention but I got tell you in grain in my mind is because I see it every day multiple terms come in here and go on all. Stop speeding. Before speeding stops. On a changeable signal like I have it my business. Like alter but i've never seen anything so you can stop driving in the left lane. Before. You killed by to people. Any response to that. And now sharp but not I understand what you're saying I haven't seen one either but we could do that. At we could do that public because we have ingrained in people everybody's mind that speeding not in montana that's not problem not in germany it's not a problem but that that's the problem we all know it's true but let me remind you something else it's true things that we know were through facts that we know but yet they're not true. This. Santa clause. Aberration of sight nicklist is an ill I will lays the saint animal lives at the north pol. Right drive to slay ever christmas it have twenty four hours to make it but if he starts in the north and ends in the north probably probably thirty six hours of. And to deliver presents to all the good kids and if it's the weather is particularly bad he can use a ring there with a red nose could somehow that latch things up but we was ridiculous as all that is we all know it. Right cause that message has been engrained. Into us we know all those things even though they're not true. And it's not true in germany and by the wake because some things is population in city because some people come back so we'll montana's population instead. Germany has six and a half times a population this in the us. And only five percent of their fatality accidents are on the other one. Don't you think that something we ought to study. I know you'll or law enforcement but but but you won't enforce the right laws right. The. So don't you think that somewhere else studying. Thank you mister. Thank you. Thank you sir clark up. Chief and capital I would like just a little bit of comment from you. The official in your individual departments have any information where the situation that sure clark describe something either not necessary that incident with something similar there has happened whether it's a lack of communication from the top to the reck and file or for some other reason where you've actually had a certified enforcement officers. Impeding the traffic for whatever reason and we all grew up in little taste like added where you might have a speed trap sometime I know that can happen and i'm not accusing or or protecting i've just asking good job responded there. Yeah so much chairman are. I think experience ultras or that's a nice way to say old ones like me when we. Used to run radar you always drove in the left lane because the angle the radar when you and it's a hard habit for some people to break dragon in the left lane because with medium barriers and walls and all that obviously you you don't cross the medium like we used to to can speakers but I think that is a a thing that a challenge that we face with law enforcement and drive and then the left lane is is because of the old habit of running right over it's certainly not a a policy that we put out to say you drive in the left lane or anything like that thank you follow up on that get. Now I was taking the exact same thing and he said it so okay thank thank you both on there representative tosh you recognize the most year gentleman thank you for being here do you have any do you have any statistics of. Call bad driving in the left lane how many incidents have escalated from that balance into road rage do you would you have. I might be you may not have that but. Would you agree with me that that probably has called several quite a few incidents in this state were started out due somebody right on somebody's bumper that some point that violation did escalate into a more serious violation which. Could be a numerous things involved in road rage would would you agree or not absolutely yes okay. That's pretty easy question. Heads up try should have made a note of it but some that speed and they extend our own rep one of the representatives as question over about if you had somebody going like saving or whatever speed they used in somebody was trying to pay a solemn and they were going said he wanted seventy two and it took them several miles to be able to complete that passion you know would that fall under the bolation of driving in the left lane and you correct me if i'm wrong but I think what would happen there would be. It might not necessarily follow under that violation if it took that long for them to be able to complete a illegal payers but if traffic was backed up that violation may switch from a left lane violation to an impeating traffic balance would you would you agree with they out of my right around yesterday okay and would you agree that speeding is a contributing factor in a bry accident that occurs in the state of arch so that speedy is a contributing factor in every accident to the cars in this day I don't like to say it's a conduring every accident but it's a contributing factor let me back up would you say speed is contributed back to in a branch day to decurse in this day speed. If you got two part me he could you are not going to have an act at what I was going to be movement and there's got to be some speed to that vehicle work three miles per hour twenty miles per or was a hundred and twenty miles per speed is the it's going to be a contributing factor in every actually embarrassed or use asking if two stationary vehicles can run in just now at what i'm saying there's a contributing factor in every actually a variation in speed perhaps but I don't you going to have movement to scar sitting still will not hit each other to be vehicles can't glad. Partly he could not clab one and has to be in motion and where that comes some bad yes I will still be like to that i'll get newton figured that out a long time ago i've just make it sure to clear that any previous questions and that's about all I got thank you all for being here thank you for answering my questions it's like you represent tosh contairment hole well I just just come on a former long forcement option myself in another seventies which have courses you you can answer this totally on speed I was going to do with road conditions a lot of it's got to do with where the conditions a lot of it's kind of do with mark traffic so there's there's there's later paying another. It's hard if you say what i'm more stopping certain speeds because it there is love early factors that are taken here so I just thought i'm not bringing that out thank you for their clark. Thank you mister and I hope that you generally didn't think I was beating up on you because I certainly wasn't I am beating up on the system of and sometimes I think we just don't accept things in the primary they are in again yellow stop is enforced the law the as it's been search but I will ask you a question I think they'll probably surprise you but I know it was surprised what members of this committee and i'll probably get challenged and they'll find out that that the data is unquestioned on it or you'll wear that according to but there's never been a study that's actually challenges. That according to research that fast drivers are the safest drivers on the road. I'm not aware of that I didn't think it would be but again. But what we know percentage with thanks. Well. Let me respond to that center i've I think of course i've never have never speeded in my life I don't know that you know but but if if our to do so I think I would be much more attentive. And paying close attention then if I were poking along at fifteen or twenty miles an hour and I think that's the point you're making sender is that not correct or a whole lot less likely to be an innocent of playing with your cell phone etc etc etc could tell you as one who whose multiple speeding tickets will put will say that i'm not as innocent as you and that has driven at all speeds and the when you're paying attention. You're paying attention and when you when you drive and slower and talk into the people in this car and look at all over the place etc you're not necessarily driving nearly a safe but it doesn't but any golden doesn't matter research and that doesn't mean everybody you know there are some people after on the road to come back me and I said there are unsafe. You know when it's not just the speed of and it's how they're doing it absolutely i'm right there with you and I understand why they scare people but the but as the return is shown that as a group fast drivers are the safest drivers on the road that's interesting statistic up again any other questions committee members of. German thank you this is again II. Fault will follow up on my request and I have direct or tutor come up and I will ask her about it too but I really do think we need some psa's to I think that did these people that think it's more dangerous to drive seventy six then it is to be in the left lane impeating traffic if we could help educate them to the fact that there's not necessarily true then maybe we are population and be just a little bit safer but thank you so much for coming today up oh i'm who is a. Same right to do a question you're not dismissed here. So to write you recognition and won't bower just as you mentioned ps says because of a part of the bill and I believe captain you have in front of you like the last paragraph that was stuck out struck from the statute existing statue about our dot will be responsible for placing signs. And periodic places as designated. The. In whether you have the answer or maybe our documents have affect been doing that i've certainly seen him senator but who will ask director tutor when she gets up here okay I didn't know if if maybe the the yesterday there are signs posted but if we take that lot while out we just work in collaborator leave together you know there's not a statutory language that requires it is there enough signs because like I said over two hundred miles I go from one way I probably see maybe just at point of points of entrance in the major areas. Just curious about it if it's being done as a continually being updated and and signs added in high high areas of congestion yes sir I believe it is. Okay. That answered adequately center thank you. Okay chairman again thank you so much for your testimony. Ah that will go to adam if. Related seven seventy nine of twenty twenty three which prohibits pedestrians on a controlled access I would direct your lord tutor and chief council shelled avenue port from our dot. In a I am work. Of course ladies you know the drill welcome. A director tutor knows that i'm always which is I think over i'm still shell shocked that you still on my favorite attorneys at but then she reminds me that she used to be happy before that so it was more than recovery on your thank you both for complete internet yourselves okay i'm lorry tator the director of the arkansas apartment a transportation good afternoon michelle that in port and the chief legal council for the arkansas department of transportation and chairman hour dislike to service cabinet in land to stay up with where this because he can shed some light on this discussion right thank you for staying cap. Correct or do you recognize. Okay i'm in a minute handed off over to michelle is she's done some research on this on act at a seven seventy nine and in give you what we know today in the. Thank you sir it appears at seven seventy nine addresses pedestrians that are found on controlled access highways this was a bill that was proposed and and during the committee meeting stated it was a priority for the department of public safety and this was not part of the how a commission legislated package even though we are the ones who control control access facilities and this is found entitled twenty seven that's the information that we have on this. This is not something that directs the department to have any type of enforcement authority directly however it does provide a penalty that can be issued by law enforcement if a pedestrian is found on a controlled access highway and otherwise I would turn it over for more information from captain thank you before you begin captain I will say that that misinformation came from my very poor memory of what we went ahead when it came through committee and that was senator period and representative pierces pay out but I had some mistake a notion that it was an article but I guess because of the subject matter related to controlled access I was so please respond is a good afternoon again so back in the last lives like session this was a bill that state please push. You know every day we get calls about petitions on the interstate and love tangible you poor love even for we get out of the car to pedicions confrontational or there hasn't been a you know a law that. Makes it slawfully present there and it's not our goal to write satan's to everybody that is there's walking on the control access however it's at the point we want to we want to be able to get them safely off the interstate whether it's too a local gas station or brought home or colorado from whatever our mind goes to get them off the industry so they don't get here with those speeds travel at that rate is just a danger for a pedition to be on the interstate and so what this all those that give us a law for presence to be there and in case so my start become compatible with this something that nature okay and i'm get out do my net second me a copper on the I want to bring to the attention. Oh above wn. Your superiors. I was sponsor of at two fifty five which had to do with the offense of ordering. And it considered at the time I considered these bills parallel and complementary i'm not so sure that the lowering wheel has quite as much to do because it was more specifically about uh. Places including but mostly not about controlled access highways and the a part of my concern on this house day we just observation I was and I think director tutor I think I mentioned a year coming off the mississippi avenue offer amp headed west banana six thirty and there's three lanes as you come off that ramp and watch day pedestriano person who was lordering and soliciting for money cross three lanes in back and then when it was your sit cause that's a straight array and so you're looking you know a hundred yards or more two hundred yards down the ramp and you say if somebody is coming too fast I can't run over this guy in a this is part of the whole thing it mean you know some people are annoyed by the people that debt lorder and in pain handle all that but the fact is that they are in miss some cases a danger to themselves and a danger other so and don't want to totally. Compare these two pieces of legislation and had separate purpose but I didn't want to bring it up because in the case of the absentee petty's bill this was sir set up to as you say a create law for presence and I assume that department public safety staff were involved in in the crafting of the bill yesterday okay well that that pretty well answers that the original inquiry that we had on it any committee questions. Or anybody on there. Okay. Thank you kept now you are not through their expertise you have. I want to ask you if we could look at the possibility of some canada or dot psa or are the thing to address the issues that in the previous item of the left line thing app i'm not gonna try to. Yeah. Support or dispute certain clark statistics i'll let them stand on their own and any information he will share if you are would encourage that but I do think whatever the decisions I think that if people know that this is a hazard and. You're left we can't left lane band it's fear left lane band it then you are a danger to yourself and others and with it that be possible that we could look at some psas that would just kind of give the public. You know we have to educate them on this obviously many of about their need the education so I have just ask if that could be something that's the department it absolutely can we have a list of psas that we put on those changeable message but I don't just mean those I mean on radio tv and you know you know under the well in the past the fcc required television radio stations to operate in the public interest which included that they would run free messages now that it's not charged yeah I mean there may might be an expense to produce the messages but as far as the time on the air they had to donate that as part of their licensing procedures which you know for a long concern they probably knowing have that anymore but but the fact is that if it it would if the department created that message then it could you could provide it to these immediate outlets that they could share that with but we can absolutely do that we work in partnership with arkansas state police safety office and we can make that you know we can make that a politician are upcoming campaigns and we can look at that together in our report back to you what we're able to do in the meantime we can do more of those changeable message signs I think we have. A few that we put out already about not camping out in the left lane kind of queue winds apps or you seem to have you got some someone has got a good sense of human rights creating to where they thought i'm sure most of them are hopefully does to catch everyone's attention in bring our message home without you know you know just trying to put some down between better than a seventy cut off singer clark I know would appreciate the successful internet that he might even have some ideas for the language i'm afraid it might know if g rated you keep a claim but it might have some sork as it now we will we understand what it's been discussed here today it is important it is a safety issue I would know and will disagree with that in south weekend do more as far as public service announcements making it a little bit more prevalent in the. Road users mind remind them. I think if everyone. Understood this law that it's not just large a good idea. Like we do with stopping for school buses and doctor one hundred and things like their don't drive drop things like that then maybe it would produce some of the problems related to it so thank you for being willing to do that any other questions for our order friends. Say the clark you are recognized I have a commit of. The. I have a heard. Several comments within the legislature and it and it caused me to think about it myself and I was not unhappy with previously leadership but are not in fact I was very happy with it but you have taken it to a whole new level and we very much appreciate you I think I speak for a number of people thank you so much man brother. Thank you thank you ladies and for no other question so thank you for coming you can leave and next step for. Representative hodges are you gonna come up to the table and present your isp. And how just please introduce yourself for the record and mr. Thank you mister chair thank you committee my name is diana harders and today I am bringing forward discussion hb eighteen thirty eight which is an act to require that a driver of a vehicle yield the right of way to public transit burst and other purposes and not have with me mister gardner from reasonable transit it needs to be read for you there you go yes there's no apologise my name is jole garden the executive director of those are regional transit and if I may i've got a prepared statement that I would like to you're glad to have you please read your thank you very much ladies and gentlemen I come before you today to address an issue that affects countless residents in our state on a daily basis the persistent delays faced by transit bus route to due to challenges but in merging back into traffic the seemingly trivial obstruction has far reaching consequences causing undo delays for passengers commuting to work school and medical appointments. Imagine the impact of just a few seconds delay on the lives of a fellow citizens it's a ripple effect that disrupts disrupts schedules and effects their ability to meet their commitments however these delays are not insurmountable all it takes as a collective effort to allow buses to merge seamlessly back into traffic the similarly small act contribute significantly to maintaining the punctuality and reliability of our public transportation system thereby encouraging more people to up for this equal friendly motive commuting. Let's not overlook the critical role or bus drivers play in our community operating large vehicles who congested traffic corridors with limited maneuvering space demands our support and consideration passing this act isn't just about giving buses the right away it's about fostering safer streets reducing accidents and insuring the smooth operation of public transit allow me to underscore their practical implications of this act while we as individual drivers sell them face to challenges of merging repeatedly during a single journey bus drivers encounter this situation at the alarming frequency with an average of thirty five stops in just as many minutes these professionals navigate their vehicles ranging from twenty to over forty foot long through traffic with an acute need for cooperation from fellow drivers by yielding to transit vehicles we not only maintain consistent route times but more critically prevent potentially catastrophic accidents passing this act would empower transit providers to display clear sign into on buses signaling their attention merge back into traffic the simple yet effective communication tool enhances both vehicle and passenger safety it is a central to note that this law only comes into effect money clearly illuminated yield sign is displayed on the left rear of a transit bus accompanied by the activation of a turn signal by the bus driver this combination serves as a clear signal to fellow drivers reducing confusion and ensuring a safe reentry into traffic flow. More over educating drivers on the significance of yielding to transfer buses is critical many have not been aware of the proper protocol when behind a stopped transit bus the yield to bust light x as a communication tool facilitating a safer reentry into traffic and many giving potential hazards. In conclusion passing the sack not only is not just a legal formality it is a collective step towards bolstering the efficiency of our states transit services by prioritising safety in insuring smoother transit operations we actively incourage a greater number of our residents to embrace public transportation as a viable or trinity to driving in our shared responsibility for road safety let us demonstrate our commitment to fastering a safer and more efficient transportation system for the benefit of all our cansance thank you very much thank you mister garden you want anything on that representative. No we would just be happy to take any questions he has any questions. Okay do I have a motion to adopt isp twenty twenty three oh four nine. A motions or second. Second by representative in it any discussion. Okay i'll favorite say I opposed no. You've passed your isp representative thank you very much thank you for bringing this to my attention misregard have not seen these. I guess it's like a lighted sign that flashes up it says e or two transit buses but sound like good idea and it certainly that would be the courteous thing to do since you got a load of people on there yes i'm right now there's not a youth i'm noticed in northwest or and so every time we get behind them there is no there's no yield signs or they they can't put him on there so this requires requires them to put them on there is that allows us to put them allows them to yes. Now doesn't really authority no sir we have no authority to put them on but discuss the authority of this is this is what we used to permissive legislation since you recommend okay all right well then we will discuss it the twenty twenty five section if they can good lord allows me to get relaxed and get back here I think thank you very much thank you very much any other business come for committee. If not yeah i'll have a great week we are adjourned.