ALC-Game & Fish/State Police

That's called the meeting order. Great to see everyone here today we're here to take care of the firearms issue were trying to streamline simple file forum laws for the state of arkansas or this committee and. So with that being said miss jennifer if you look introduced yourself and who's with you in your present our honing issues for the day. Yes I thank you chair good afternoon good afternoon committee i'm dinner for crime i'm a legislative attorney with the bureau I represent i'm sorry no representative but I work with. The judiciary committee in this committee and I was asked to prepare a summary of your puller local to if you would please is this better thank you I was asked repairer summary of arkansas laws that contain reference to the term firearms or deal with firearms and then those were divided into categories and so todays category that I was asked to present on or hinting laws that contain a reference to the term firearm so today will be covering statutes in the arkansas code or provisions of the arkansas constitution that deal with hunting and far law fires we are not discussing in regulatory rules that may have been promulgated bar the game and fish commission this is limited to statutes and the constitution and I may need to defer some questions to other entities if there are any questions pertaining to interpretation of the laws or policy I have with me zach mayo and dill and jacobs with the attorney general's office. And with that I will go ahead and get started. If you will turn to exhibit c one in your packet today that is the summary that i'll be going over and see too is a print out of the actual statutes that will be discussing. So the first one is arkansas code one four one thirty eight and this statute provides that the short gain is the official state far arm. The next statute is arkansas code five seventy one two twenty eight. And this stats you establishes an affairs at for the obstruction of shooting hunting fishing or trapping activities the statute provides that it's unlawful for any person into wilfully obstruct or impede the participation of any individual in the lawful activity of shooting hunting fishing or trapping a person who violates the provision while in possession of a firearm is guilty of a class a misdemeanor otherwise it's a class b misdemeanor. And the next several stats use are from total fifteen which is the natural resources and economic development title where most of the hunting statutes are located in the code the first one of those is arkansas code fifteen forty two one four and this is the statue that provides for hurting and fishing licenses for residents of the state and this is a lengthy statute it has one mention of the term firearm and that is where there is one type of hunting license that is for the privilege of taking small game and one dear by the use of a modern center fire firearm and then a more expansive license for the privilege of taking three dear and all other game by any method and so that's the only mention of firearm in that statue. Arkansas fifteen forty three one oh five provides that the possession of far arms in fields forests along streams or in any location known to be game cover is promise ac evidence of hunting. Fifteen forty three two oh five. Creates the offense of negligent discharge of firearms while hunting dear and this a finance applies when I fire arm is negligently discharged and our circumstances that in danger the person or property of another and it's penicial will buy a fine of one hundred to one thousand dollars and or imprisonment of thirty days to six months. The next statute is fifteen forty three two thirty eight which authorizes the game and fish commission to establish a heterotraining and safety program and the state he provides that the program may include instruction design to teach the safe and proper handling of firearms the suitability and effectiveness of different types of far arms for hunting various types of game the effective range and killing power of various firearms and the best placement of shots on large game. The at last summary that i've prepared is from the arkansas constitution amendment eighty eight. Section one about amendment preserves the right of citizens of the state to high fish trap and harvest wildlife. And some subdivision c two provides that the amendment is not intended to affect other law including any other law concerning firearms and related to hunting. And that conclude a summary. Thank you very much. Are any questions for missed uniform from the committee. This. Said what. Thank you mister chair. So I just wanted to follow up on fifteen dash forty three dash one or five again II realize you're just presenting the statues but to like. Someone just and the field and they got a hand gun on their side that's like just evidence they might be june and that's evidence that. They're hunting and is that how we an interpret that do you have any background on that you can share. Well senator MA believe what you're asking may be an interpretation of the statute and so I would defer that question to the attorney general attorneys okay thank you. Yeah. If I may just before I immediately answer your question attorney journal grip and wanted us to read just a brief statement about our our participation here I just for the committee which is that as this committee does the important work of rewriting that please identify yours night sorry for the record yeah my name is zach I mean we have one more question here from his crime before we do that fsr of course yeah. Representative world I don't have a question and I yield to the chair and. But I will draw it back to you then please introduce your name for the record my name is zach mayo general council attorney general's office. Jake excuse me i'm deal on jacob's deputy's solicitor general with the attorney general's office. Okay so as this committee rewrites and simplifies the law some of these sections may not be necessary so as we sit here today but the attorneys don't want to convey that just because we do not raise constitutional or other legal objections to the current law there does not necessarily mean that the attorney general believes that we should carry all these provisions into a simplified version of the arkansas law he says it doesn't mean that we should it doesn't mean that we shouldn't as far as the interpretation question alternate over to my colleague. So section fifteen forty three dash two or five does currently provide the possession of any firearm including concealed handgun in any location known to be game cover is primarily evidence that the individuals engaged are in hunting we have. Our thoughts about the series of statutes that the committee has before today or brief and the only section that we had comments to give were about this section so there are two aspects that we think could use a little bit of clarification or simplification one of those being that the committee may wish to consider whether carrying a hand gun in a fee older next to a stream ought to be primarily evidence that an individuals hunting this statute was written well before it became quite common for individuals to carry hand guns on their person and so that may be that is an oversight by this particular statute how that should be modified as more of a policy question and i've been a legal one certainly game and fish regulations you know probably already play into some aspect of this and. Their expertise would be useful and figuring out how to change that of the committee besides to do so the other aspect of section two or five the committee may wish to to help clarify is the term game cover that uh term is not defined anywhere in the arkansas code and it may be the benefits are cancelled to have a clear picture of where carrying a firearm could result in this primary facial evidence that they're engaged in hunting. Okay we guess several questions pop up your senator payton thank you mister chair so I think you made the comment twice there referring to two oh five but your comments seem to be in relation to one oh five. And maybe I heard you wrong but anyway so yes one of so possession of a far arm is prime efficient evidence of hunting. Then the second amendment guarantees the right to possess that far. Then it is illegal question another not a ruling statute of the of the game of fish because that means we have a constitutional right to hut. If we're going to say. That the possession of a far arm. In a hunting area means you're hunting that's like saying possession of a far arm in an urban area means you're going to robber liquor store I mean it's a pretty cram perception hunting is the pursuit of gain. And if if you've got far arm on your own or about your person whether it be a hand gun or long gun. That doesn't mean your hunting no matter where you are. And the us constitution does not have geographical limits on where you can possess if our arm. So if we're going to say that the mere possession of a far arm in a certain area constitutes hunting. Then hunting is going to be guaranteed right under the second amendment. So it is a legal issue and I think maybe we need an attorney general's opinion because I don't think that we can. Prosecute somebody for a crown they have not committed. If if they've not pursued or taken game. Then the mere possession of that far arm is guaranteed under the second member do you have any comments on that. The. So I think we you know agree that certainly some clarification is warranted and when the when the statute says that uhm possession is prime of facia evidence of hunting I want to clarify it does that does not mean that the person is guilty of a hunting related offence it just means that one the case is brought to court the burden is shifted to the person possessing the firearm to show that they were you know using the fire and were possessing it for some purpose other than hunting with a hand gun that's you know a pretty easy thing to show most people don't use handguns to hand any kind of game and we're not aware of a an enforcement issue with an overaggressive application of that statute so as to whether the current. The currently written version of the statue poses a constitutional issue where they're under the second amendment or some other provision I think that's probably beyond the scope of our remarks but we do think that. Our kansas would likely benefit for some from some clarification to insure that this is online with where we ought to be and twenty twenty three instead of in several decades ago when it was written. They get just for a point of clarification only us. Would it would be best from european if we just did away with the one o five. That way takes care that you said you weren't aware of any wine so we've been charged going after having a handgun because you don't hunt with them. And told. What how does your opinion on that again i'll purpose it I think that's more of a policy issue than a legal issue and our role here is to you know assist the committee on the legal aspects of this so I don't think that our office has a position on whether this should be you know simply repealed or whether this is separately addressed by you know game and fish regulations and their enforcement their expertise and experience on that would be would probably be more helpful from the policy perspective of whether this ought to stay or go the committee could also. Been a simply exempt hand guns from this if they thought that that was the biggest issue out of it but we don't have a legal position that we necessitate this you know coming houston thank you representative fortner. Thank you mister chairman just just for clarification for me. It as a stand right now it is the terry generals opinion that if I am walking a fence line during honing season with a pistol. The desk primary facial evidence that I could be hunting even though i'm out there just repairing my fancy checking it for damage. That does appear to be the current version of the statute again this is not a an official attorney general opinion that we've issued but you know in our role here today to assist the committee that is a. I fairly plain reading of the text of section one or five thank you. Satellite. Thank you mister chair so did you say and I just did are there any exemptions for private property like this doesn't apply for walking across you know forty acres I own or anything or does it apply like every square into the state. The. The way the statute is currently written it is written to cover anywhere known to be game cover and so if you've got acridge that has forced it land on it where dear are known to be then under the current wording of the statute then yes anyone possessing a firearm in that acridge would there would be a prime efficient evidence that they were engaged in hunting if they had a hand another person could could I just add as well just to clarify this statute does not itself create an offense it just goes into what the presumption is so II think some at the root of your question is whether hunting would be permissible in these places and that's all determined by other statutes other regulations that just goes onto whether the pure question of whether you can make a prima facia which is a rebuttable presumption that there is the that you are hunting but it itself is not an offense. The. Representative richardson. Thank you mister and so just just want to just want to make sure that I understand promotation. That pronounced that correctly and then could you describe for me what that is I know you can hit all around it but just from a legal perspective as much as you can layman's terms make sure I understand what that means sure could be prima facio could be prima face lots of old lead in legal terms no one's quite sure how to pronounce any more are certainly not me so a primary facial case just means that as my colleagues accept it's a rebuttable presumption meeting that if there is a court case whether it's a prosecution or whatever. The mere fact that someone possesses a firearm in this location is enough evidence to legally establish the fact that the person is hunting from the from the side of a prosecution or a plaintiff now one of the defendant in this hypothetical case that were discussing as a chance to put on his or her case that presumption is rebuttable so if someone was being prosecuted or sued for some. Offense or charge that hunting was an element and the planet for the government says well this person had a firearm in this location that was gained cover at that point in the case the defendant can come back and say well this was a concealed handgun I was carrying it for self defense like I always do i'm not going to use this handgun to game and then it would be up to a fact finder at that point uh determined what they thought was the most believable so possession is guilty until proven innocent in that situation. Yeah. That's not inaccurate it's not in a as II think I think that's that's a fair characterization of the way that the rebuttable presumption would work it shifts the burden to a defendant whereas normally that burden is on either a prosecution if it's a criminal context or a plaintiff if it's a civil litigation context ok thank you for that follow up how many people are and maybe you don't know this but i'm i'm just curious how often this is used to prosecute and has been used to prosecute our kansas in the in the recent history we wouldn't have any knowledge of that that would be for game and fish or any of the other entities that are enforcing the actual statutes that would depend on whether you're hunting or not and they would be able to get some mischeers that's of the black and providers. The. I'm sorry is that something that my question was how often is this used or how often has this been used prosecute arcans in the in the recent history and i'm wondering if BLR can provide that to us. The. Or game a fish i'd like to like for everyone to realize the gaming picture will be up here in a minute they can answer these questions at the ag's office company i'll save it for them they will be right after the state police. Centres double field. I can mischairman jennifer and and in one of four statue one or four you stated that the word far room was only mentioned one time in that entire statue yes that's correct you know when I read this. This is a perfect example of just how much. Uh how far the government has gotten into our. Bill of right as for as the second maintenance is concerned. And the infringement of arrives because every other land in this almost has the word as were dollar since commission fees all of it it's about money. Would you agree with that. I can't offer an opinion on that senator chairman can you would you agree on the. I think that's also beyond the scope of your here today senator double field won't you say that for a director boot and a minute or. Yeah. Said a rice note was cheer I would just offer on one oh five talking about. One being our space private own property in our own again it it does convict you but it is a. Peace of. The parcel in cream conviction. And i'll remain people that were here a number of years ago and for new ones aspect. Uh. Money out of my pocket. To hire lawyer for a constituent and be vietnam bet. To fat uh. Game in fish at that time who. Uh took him to court. In the unreasonable bring is up is because. Any of things like this are a piece of proposal. And what the judge ended up doing. Is finding the defendant not guilty. Are. For one thing guilty for another thing not. The. Assessing any fan. But it it goes in the fact he he was guilty. Any went through the process in the judge blame the legislature. For it be an upsetting and earning a word like the legislature for it be an unclear. So that's one reason I matter in in this committee and what it's doing is to get some of their stuff out of the pieces of possible that are confusing people if it's confusing to a judge it's either clear it's not and I had this would be one hour that needs to go. Thank you. Centre boyd thank you mister chair just not a quick question other thing came up so for the general went from ag's office just helped me understand legally speaking if. I come in traffic crossing which is in the city limits of for its myth and I happen to be carrying a a firearm through an area where they're dear they're squirrels there are other animals the matter look like it is cover for game. Again there might be an interpretation of this game cover that says hey i'm hunting and city limits I mean I guess i'm trying to understand just how far this could be used if the right prosecuting attorney or the or the right situation arose. The. The the statute is written extremely broadly and the current wording of any place known to be game cover and you know his very very brought dear squirrel you know they're everywhere and so it is as you you know you alluded to result in a lot of situations where someone is legally it presumes to be hunting in situations where they're you know pretty obviously not carrying you know a hand gun on their person or but you know many firearm in their vehicle things like that. Okay so like I i've seen dear in the middle of fourteen minutes about where the act me brick plant used to be and then behind our reality man I know the geography of four smith but literally in the middle of of town i've seen so there there could an argument could be made if someone wanted to really pursue it then that that my caring of a gun is i'm hunting in the middle of the city that that could be correct under the way this is currently worded that's why additionally you know we suggested that the definition are the term game cover could benefit from a definition if. In the section a or subsection and the statute is retained in some former fashion or modified to to make clear where exactly someone is and is not presumed to be hunting if they're they're carrying a firearm thank you and just to answer the question with the statute as his exists now I think that that's just where the premium facial part of it would have to be leaned on very heavily so if you're walking through downtown for smith wearing. A business sued and you have your concealed carry and there's a that that's where the rebuttable presumption could be rebutted by those other facts but of course that's not to say that. It's not possible to abuse it as written. Representative or left thank you mister I think i'm at the right time now. In reading these statutes and see in our simple today is I could see where we would need a recommendation committee later on. But seeing all the confusion and i've already talked to the department I find it proven to make a motion of. To totally repeal fifteen dash forty three dash one of five so at the proper time i'll have that motion ready for the chair I will accept that at the proper time thank you. Yeah. Say to you more than you miss chair and I appreciate represent wardlaws motion I look forward to second in that motion it's proper time after this discussion but my my question goes back to and if I may jump back to five seventy one to twenty eight and I would just like some sort of interpretation from the ag's office if if they're at liberty to do so. Of what that statue actually does because. Clearly it it when I first credit I was taking okay this would be somebody who is you know infringing upon someone's property rights engaging in hunting activity or something that nature but the the word lawful activity or the two words lawful activity and there would certainly dispel that so could you guys give an example of what this. Statute is trying to. Target. One example that might come to mind is if you had some sort of I don't know anti hunting activist group or protest going to some known hunting location during until season and a going with the purpose to manner or scare away all the game water but he's out until you know going on it whether it's public land or private land something like that. Um. Even going on to pino and individuals property interest passing in an event to to start them from hiding but I mean trustpass and clearly would not be lawful activity rate or so the the way that I read the lawful activity it's geared toward the person whose hunting so i. It would be a crime under the statue to impede someone who is awfully hunting it would not be a crime under the statute to impede someone who is unlawfully hunting for example if someone finds someone hunting on their property and the person hunting his trespassing would not be a violation of the statute for that person to impede the trespasser from hunting because they are doing so unlawfully. Is it safe to say we have quite a few other statues of right cover. Examples that you've given in the law. The. Since sitting here today i'd i'd hesitate to to enough to to answer that one where another. Thank you. Senator hammer. Take this year and this may be better for the director coming a minute but on one o five. It says known to be game cover do you know where who'd make sure determination that in area location is to be a known game cover or do you want deferred to the director and let's hold that to the director comes up gate thanks. The. Any other questions from the committee. If not we're going to go to the state police as anyone have any questions for the state police. They was informed they had no comments on the so with messaging questions we're going to skip over the. Seeing nine director both. Jetter for you can stay there in case anyone has any questions for you actually finishes thank you to her. You turn your michael you recommend the play introduce yourself for the record in well let you start yes sir i'm dragged draw some booth the director of the arkansas game fish commission always good to be with you once again to deter talk about the second amendment and the obligation we are cancelled to do better provide more clearly around a constitutional right of of theirs just a few things that have come up so far section one o five dollars on in fish commission has no record of any person that was convicted of violating the statue it is an evidentiary statue and you know how individual criminal courts use that for arkansas is beyond what we have visibility on in the event that the legislature chose to repeal the statute it would have no impact on how the arkansas gave fish commission works today are codes pretty clear that we place a lot of difference in autonomy around the around the game to make a totality of the circumstances analysis of whether there's during criminal internet and we agree with what I think the the tenner of this hearing today has said and that's the mere possession in mere possession alone of a for arm does not mean that any individual is more likely being a a criminal actor so that's relative to section one or five I would also add that section to twenty eight to your to your point center to go more most the time see this coming up in the context of public lands or on privately ends when we're dealing with some get a dispute around who had permission to hunt there and who and hood and who did not. Uhm but similarly we also have have code that were utilized making this section of the arkansas code uhm superfluous and in lastly I just just want to say for this body that it was good for the arkansas commission to be in northeast arkansas a couple weeks ago for our regular monthly commission meeting we had a update in the course of that commission meeting where we provided simply an update about dave daved also black river while life engineering there was nothing in the updates we provided that day contrary to what you may have heard that was pressing imminent were subsidiar really we simply provided an update about dave donson because we just haven't been there for our commission meeting there is a lot of misinformation out there so we had a follow up public meeting on it last week that went really well and we afford to doing another public meeting in jonesburg on february tenth so with those three things in man i'll afford your questions. Thank you director booth will start with their payment thank you mister chair direct roof certainly appreciate your comments about having not used one oh five. The. Is to the best of your knowledge but I just want clarify what you're saying. So you're saying that nobody has had fans or tickets or penalties imposed on them. Merely for the possession of a firearm in a hunting area. It's it's only a few found other evidence that they pursued or took game. Yes sir yeah and so how far back are you going in there are you saying for the entire history of the argumental game in fish commission or the history of this statute. Because because i'm pretty sure that i've at least I at least knows of some people who have been threatened. With tickets for riding horses through public land in the possession of our own sir if a if we look at one or five I mean I believe that sections over eighty years old our records don't go back out for so would you be willing to investigate the last ten years and and and report back to us at the next regular meeting or email us or something yes I had intended to ask you for a report on you know how many cases are how many fines are penalties may have been handed out the last ten years they had no no game taken or nothing other than just the fact that they were possessing a far. Yeah now what this calls are hunting location will be happy okay thank you thank you mister chair mr director if you would discuss that information to the south nil disperse that out yesterday alongside thank you for that update while going to day downtown just so the the committee or not we are not want to take any questions on that from the committee on day thousand that a week for separate hearing if anything ever goes on from there so appreciate the update and thank you for the transparency on his or. Certain boy. Thank you mr chair first of all arsehole thank you for your clarifications on fifteen dash forty three one or five appreciate you being here today I appreciate your service our country and out our stated the membership what are the so my question though we are what are the authoritative limits the arkansas game in fish commission has in an acting rules which conflict with last passed by a legislature so where where does is the two come up against one another where where do you see that the limit of the arkansas game in fish i'm not quite sure sir you know if if you if you look at our code book a lot of our code and section one of other is a good example that and really why we're here for this body a lot of our code sixty implement what the legislature has caught up and if you kind of fast forward over eighty years in the context of section one of up a lot of our regulations we can point back to sections of the arkansas state code that are you can obsole not up today still in the blank there and so one of the reasons and i've been pretty a from a center hill about this that were excited see this effort that were that we're going through as a committee because we're in the process of going through our code to see what are we not utilizing what's not helpful was making a harder for law enforcement officers what's inconsistent with code. Yeah thank you sir. Thank you after known rect both bicycle band here i've got a question on I guess you rule five twenty nine. That says immediate disclosure of possession of concert or hand gun required. Ability discussion where that's in conflict. We have is there a discussion on what you're going to do on it. Yes there are understanding is that that could provision was added to game fish regs before arkansas became a constitutional care state we're about to inter a reg cycle in february of two thousand twenty four and I would expect for five for five for five twenty nine be revealed. Thank you clarification. The. Centre johnson thank you mister chairman as everyone else who is on thank you for not just your service as director but your military service my dad was a marine simplify appreciate it received december thank you and i'm a I have so little criticism of your department and blows to do the x it makes it satellite i'm a complaint and that in their person the time i'm absolutely behind everything especially appreciate the good stuff going on at like conway however and you knew this was completely. There was an issue that it came up where. I very brilliant at constitutional lawyer who I will not name it brought my attention that there signed at the gun range near like harnway. That said that there you get you not have concealed carry on the range. And where in the law is there an exemption. For that I don't think it exists and when this thing first came up per attorney in your that again this was a quote at was not previewed to hearing site but there mister good heart said that the game in fish commission was a fourth branch of government era I do take a issue with that but it it seems to me what place that you might all be able to carry a good might be a gun range and that has that either been corrected or is there something in the works to maybe clarify and clean up that yes or contradiction well I want to be a burning clear that the arkansas fish commission is a no shape former fashion nor we ever said that we're the fourth branch of government thank you second of all i'm not going to comment on any matters that are currently under litigation right now but I would encourage anybody that wants to just see the wonderful shooting complex we have and may flower to go out and see it along with some of the new signage that we have there okay I will since it's in my district I will drive by this week and thank you and my christmas merry christmas eastern thank you. Saturday thank you and couple different things and the hunter and training and safety program legislation in the way that that is a written have you looked at that statute to see if there are any updates that need to be made to that in relationship to I know it's it's bride but I also want to make sure that it's brought enough to include you know some of the the new game that's probably alligator is probably was night at the time the was not part of that may be alcohol not sure but have you have you looked at that to see how we have if and i'm not sure if the statute would need to be changed I just don't want it so like tire hands to where you can't add something because I think fishing is also important I mean this is focused on handed training and safety but phishing is also hunting and so you know now you have spear fishing you have both fishing you have a lot of different things out there that are that can be dangerous so I would love to see and i'm not sure if the statute needs to be revamped but I kind of wanted to ask you about that real quick just me and think thank you for that question we are we are we are currently looking at it there's nothing in it that taus our hands budget but just because it's not constraining us doesn't mean that it can't be better and all of the things that we're really trying to hard to crack and not on is is what we do with voter safety I mean we often see younger people that are out on the water during during during summer that often does make some really bad decisions so we are we are trying to focus more on water safety better saving evening and like even if it means the art hunting or fishing so we are looking at it I would say right now we're in a pretty good place but if there's any changes that we need to make to it. We will certainly let you know yeah and and I think also I mean you could add atv and as I buy signs on four wheelers I mean i've that's a lot it's used a lot in handing and so it's just something that I think would be a good vehicle so to speak this this training in this education and the safety programs should encompass all these different kinds of things in my opinion that go along with hunting and fishing and I think it's a great program in facts when you're at boys state one of their bills that they put forward and passed was that they they believe there should be tight and every school a public school and which I think is great I wish we could figure out a way to incorporate the game and fish into our public educational curriculum home to be honest because so many of those activities are. Arkansas it's arkansas what we do and we want more kids to be outside and more active so that's just one thing I wanted to talk with you about and then also for the the hunting and fishing licenses for residents um and answer for out of state residence I get a lot of folks that will call me about out of state it being complicated and they don't know what to add they would rather just like one componbo and i'm not sure if you can if that's for outer state but just one place on the app are they get pushed one button and get everything for a year this is the feedback I get and then the the last thing is and when is the public meeting again up in chance for all the on february tenth we announced that last week and was some more details around the specific location and jones borrow whether we're going to do any others that weak in northeast or and so the outside of the transfer of so stay tuned in most more information and if you can just get some and for more like detailed offline to me about this because i'm hearing a lot about this from a lot of folks over there thanks. The. Set it or hammer. The mischief on one or five the freeze or in any location not to be game cover is this restricted just to public land orders also capture privately. Sir hammer it will be hard air would be hard for me to say because of my knowledge we've never utilized the statue. Okay. So let me let me give you scenario. Have heart property guy was caught trustpassing on it had a dog had a gun. And thanks to your game of fish officers which I was very appreciative because he was a real nuisance too properly owners round us he was arrested charged with trust person also charge with illegally hunting because he was trustpashed I think was way played out if this bill if this if this is repealed with that ahead any effect on the maximum for which that person would have been able to have been charged if if sexual one offer will repeal it would have had no impact whatsoever on the citation we issue that that person okay thank you time issue. The. Thank you any other questions for it recommends. Thank you for your time to recognize miss jennifer you may experience as well he wanted thank you senator. The next we are going to go to the police chief association is there anyone here from them. As seeing no one. Will skip over that one prosecutor cornetter's office. You're just here for questions occasions anyone having questions for the prosecutors once. Seeing none thank you for showing up today. Shares association. Any any questions for the share sociation. Seeing nine. Part of the transportation. Any questions for them seeing nine thank you for coming yeah we have. We have one person from the public here to speak mr episode would you like to come forward. The. Yes i'm just the process thank you sir for your time. Okay we've got center or representative wardle. Is the proper town would you restate your motion. The. Share. Seeing that we have one issue agree with the chairs not having a recommendation meeting next week so with that i'd go ahead and make the motion to report are our add to the recommendations for this committee for a full repair of fifteen forty three dash one fires and now with that much chair. I appreciate a good who have a motion that we have a second that you sent to race. Gilmore. Any discussion. All in favor of the repeal all against. As have it. It's any other business before this committee to. Okay. The next meeting will be scheduled. For january we have cancelled the december the eighteenth meeting. It one thirty PM take police any recommendations regarding revision to the forum laws related to herning or any other issues that might come before us if you have any proposed recommendations present to the submittee please email a short summary of republican to matthew baber. And we will take those up the first part of the year only members of the subcommittee will be permitted to make the recommendations pose recommendations don't need to be detailed this is just a starting point for the subcommunity to discuss and determine whether to explore the proposed revision further and have blood to begin the research in the drafting process next month tough topic will be concealed carry laws and regulations on january the tinth twenty twenty four at one o'clock in room I want to remind the public that they are initially providing any comments that they will need to sign up online or in person before the january the tenth meeting that being said we're john.